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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-22

---Logopened Sun Aug 22 00:00:05 2021
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02:27<beeneez>hi, i have dualboot win 10 and mint, how remove win ?
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02:31<taku>Hi, I'm using buster and dynamips crash with segment fault.
02:31<flowriser>beeneez, open up the disks utility and simply format the windows partition; then run sudo update-grub to remove the windows from grub
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03:28<Litos523>good morning I have a query to see who can help me I want to change the screenshot program from mate to spectacle I have mate and kde installed and I alternate them, but I like spectacle better than the mate grabber Could someone tell me how to predetermine it?
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04:23<Akram>Hi, I asked yesterday about the raspi3 buster image. I fixed my issue with my SD Card by buying a new one. But, the raspi3 image still does not seem to boot :( . My installation is headless, I have no screen right now. Is there anything I have to make the image boot? maybe it is block while waiting input?
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04:27<jochum>,v grub2
04:27<judd>Package: grub2 on amd64 -- stretch: 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4; buster-security: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4; bookworm: 2.04-20; bullseye: 2.04-20; sid: 2.04-20
04:27<Akram>could it be related to rootwait option passed to kernel? This seem to be the default in cmdline.txt ; but as I am booting from USB on rpi, I wonder if this is not causing issues
04:29<tjcarter>Akram: I haven't played with the Debian Pi image, but I've done a fair bit with both the Pi running Raspbian and … I'm fairly familiar with Debian in general
04:29<tjcarter>Akram: Have you tried booting it from SD card as well?
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05:40<Typhome>openjdk-16-jdk not available in Debian 11 (bullseye), how I can get it?
05:40<Typhome>E: Unable to locate package openjdk-16-jdk
05:40<Typhome>It ships latest which is openjdk-17-jdk, but I need that 16
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05:44<somiaj>You will have to get the version from a source otehr than debian then.
05:45<somiaj>https://adoptopenjdk.net/ I belive is a decent place to get specific openjdk binaries
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05:47<colo>azul also provides packages for Debian, gratis.
05:48<colo>https://www.azul.com/downloads/?version=java-16-sts&os=debian&architecture=x86-64-bit&package=jdk
05:48<colo>(we use them on Oracle Solaris/SPARC)
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05:51<Typhome>Where are Java binary files stored? I have looked /usr/lib, /var/lib etc, it's not there. I have openjdk-17 installed, I'd like to extract other Java JDK version to same directory
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05:53<Typhome>I think I found it, /usr/lib/jvm
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05:54<colo>dpkg -L openjdk-17-jdk
05:54<dpkg>No packages found matching openjdk-17-jdk
05:54<colo>will show you
05:54<colo>(if that is the correct package name)
05:54<Typhome>Yes, thanks
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06:19<bittin>Last day of Debcamp Online 2021 today
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06:20<ydbi>when I do `apt install upx-ucl' I get "update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for upx" during the installation. Is that something to worry about?
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07:35<nickme>flowriser: ok i have upgraded to bullseye. but when i upgrade the kernel my computer stuck before grub. i tried with bullseye live from usb stick and got the same issue.
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07:40<nickme>maybe linux >=5 doesn't support my hardware?
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07:55<ydbi>nickme: unlikely
07:55<ydbi>you possibly lack non-free firmware to make things boot
07:55<ydbi>any sort of error messages would help debug this
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08:09<tepozoa>ydbi: https://salsa.debian.org/debian/upx-ucl/-/blob/master/debian/postinst <- it looks like it's first looking if something is already there, if not add itself. If you ls -l /etc/alternatives/upx* did it add itself?
08:10<ydbi>it is there
08:11<ydbi>I just wonder if it is correct that an error message is output during installation
08:11<tepozoa>then I would say to ignore the error based on what I see in this script
08:12<flowriser>nickme, try with the firmware image maybe: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.0.0-live+nonfree/
08:12<flowriser>nickme, you can also put the firmware in a folder on the usb drive: https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware#Firmware_during_the_installation
08:12<tepozoa>ydbi: I ran the same test with "foobar" and get the same error, it's just the default output when not there
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08:46<amacater>morning
08:47<nickme>ydbi: Error messages after BIOS splash (before GRUB loading): [ 0.061015] ACPI: SPCR: Unexpected SPCR Access Width. Defaulting to byte size [ 0.192932] x86/cpu: VMX (outside TXT) disabled by BIOS - The first message I have always, also under buster. The second was new and I can get rid of it by changing that cpu setting in bios, but it still stucks in that screen and grub isn't loading.
08:47<amacater>Is this by any chance an HP Microserver or similar?
08:48<RoyK>,v restic
08:48<judd>Package: restic on amd64 -- stretch: 0.3.3-1+b2; buster: 0.9.4+ds-2+b1; bookworm: 0.11.0-1+b5; bullseye: 0.11.0-1+b5; sid: 0.11.0-1+b5; experimental: 0.12.0-2~exp2
08:48<nickme>flowriser: I have already downloaded and dded the unofficila non-free iso to a stick and just tested the main live-iso before the install (didn't do a fresh install yet, still have the upgrade from buster to bullseye with kernel 4,19 here).
08:49<nickme>flowriser: will test the non-free live iso
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08:50<flowriser>nickme, good luck! I'll be here if you need support
08:50<ydbi>nickme: don't those messages come from the kernel? So it is already past grub.
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08:53<nickme>flowriser: thank you! :)
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08:54<nickme>ydbi: im sorry i ment after grub not before... im a bit tired...
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08:54<nickme>i run exactly this system now while choose 4.19 in grub
08:58<amacater>nickme: If you want to upgrade buster -> bullseye, read the release notes. You may well find that the firmware support is a lot better esp. with kernel 5.10
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08:59<nickme>amacater: thx i have upgraded already and exactly for that reason. i hope i don't have to mess arround to get my 1030 working with the new kernel.
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09:01<crawler>,v php
09:01<judd>Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 2:7.3+69; bookworm: 2:7.4+76; bullseye: 2:7.4+76; sid: 2:7.4+76; experimental: 2:8.0+80~exp1
09:03<amacater>1030 - graphics card - from which mfr?
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09:13<is>,v gcc
09:13<judd>Package: gcc on amd64 -- stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; buster: 4:8.3.0-1; bookworm: 4:10.2.1-1; bullseye: 4:10.2.1-1; sid: 4:10.2.1-1; experimental: 4:11.2.0-1
09:14<Typhome>I wonder if its possible to move one of largest database file to HDD (like /data/mysql/databasename) + symlink...
09:16<Typhome>currently database server has separate database files in /var/lib/mysql folder
09:16<Typhome>like only 1 database file is on HDD and all other database files will stay on SSD
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09:17<tepozoa>"kind of" - it depends on which specific file, as some of them get rewritten during certain types of operations which uses a new file and then renamed (so it would break your symlink)
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09:19<Typhome>actually it's folder, as mariadb has default tables per file setting enabled
09:20<Typhome>so i actually mean that moving folder that contain tables to HDD
09:20<tepozoa>you might be OK with a whole folder -- the thing I mentioned above is usually the tables inside there, so that should work
09:21<tepozoa>suggestion: make a new temporary DB, move it to the HDD as a test with the symlink, then import some dummy data and "do stuff" to it
09:22<tepozoa>the optimize process is one that I know does the new file -> rename
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09:23<Typhome>i see
09:24<Typhome>i'll download debian 11 iso and try it on virtual machine before doing that on production server
09:25<tepozoa>always a good idea
09:27<Typhome>ln -s /var/lib/mysql/databasename /data/mysql/databasename
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10:20<nikos>Hi, I'm installing bullsye with the following partition setup: https://i.imgur.com/0FQlP6n.png. After installation a third 1K partition is created, what is that? https://imgur.com/a/nukdl4t
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10:27<crawler>nikos try fdisk -l for more details
10:27<crawler>fdisk -l /dev/sda
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10:38<nikos>Should've googled a bit harder. Nvm https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/128290/what-is-this-1k-logical-partition
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10:50<EdePopede>nikos, no GPT?
10:55<tepozoa>nikos: that link is not what your partition is
10:56<tepozoa>or did you mean a 4th partition (not the 3 in your screenshot)
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10:58<tepozoa>ahh OK I see now, you have an extended on 3 instead of 4 it looks like
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11:18<EdePopede>that's what i always avoided, having it NOT on 4. also, how much space to reserve for 2-4 if they're not needed yet? fortunately i never had to resize that one.
11:18<EdePopede>GPT is a really nice thing, just partitions.
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11:24<tepozoa>you don't have to reserve any space so to speak - the DOS MBR record has 4 16byte wide records (called partition table entries) whether you use them or not - each records has both the legacy c/h/s format (usually ignored these days) and the LBA start sector and number of sectors. just leaving a PTE as null/blank is enough
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11:25<tepozoa>the PTE listing the Extended parition will allocate the whole rest of devicd, the logicals within the extended are daisy-chained off each other to make 5+
11:27<tepozoa>(this is where the size limitation is - the LBA slots are each 4 bytes wide, leading to the maximum number that can be stored in there as a 32bit - hence the (2^(32-1)) 2TB limit to a partition with MBR
11:28<tepozoa>GTP makes the slots 128byte wide (in total) with 8byte fields to store the LBA sector addresses
11:28<tepozoa>*GPT
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11:38<amacater>nikos - is there any other OS on your drive / can you switch to GPT and UEFI?
11:39<nikos>Reinstalled making the third partition primary instead of logical and it's gone. So it was indeed the extended partition table
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11:41<nickme>flowriser: successfully installed debian bullseye and i get no error messages about missing nvidia firmware.
11:43<nickme>wow... over 2000 packages with the default installation.. that's a lot
11:45<flowriser>nickme, congratz
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11:48<EdePopede>anyone an idea how many packages a minimalistic installation would have?
11:49<@bremner>a few hundred?
11:49<EdePopede>i did this with suse long ago. unselected absolutely everything, found out then that some of the packages had a flag making them crucial, so they got installed even when the installer was told not to
11:49<@bremner>that is true in debian also. There are "essential" packages
11:50<EdePopede>still a few hundred, wow. i think i had a few dozen, but then... some releases floated by since
11:50<EdePopede>ah
11:50<@bremner>my build chroot has 186 packages in it.
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11:50<@bremner>Not completely minimal since it has gcc and make and friends
11:51<nickme>EdePopede: ~200
11:51<EdePopede>base-files: Essential: yes
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11:51<EdePopede>i think i never noticed that one
11:51<nickme>but i think the deault xfce installation is ok (except these tons of language packages)
11:51<EdePopede>or maybe i did back then. 2.1 i guess xD
11:52<EdePopede>i'm actually thinking of dropping DEs
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11:52<EdePopede>i don't really use anything what they offer, so a wm, some key bindings, some scripts popping up some kind of dialogs, conky, ...
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12:04<vv221>EdePopede, you might like that, this is my full DE: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1208585
12:04<EdePopede>wow
12:04<vv221>With the big downside that it is unusable with Wayland.
12:05<EdePopede>wayland would be something i'd try on the other pc tbh
12:05<vv221>`xrandr_custom` is a custom wrapper around xrandr, because I never remember xrandr options ;)
12:05<vv221>Everything else is from Debian repos.
12:06<vv221>But it might be something too minmial for a lot of people, as it does not include a panel.
12:06<EdePopede>i think the reason why i want to stay with this one (though it's definitely underpowered) is that i want to look into windows 10 which came with it
12:06<vv221>I do not share this kind of morbid curiosity ;P
12:07<EdePopede>iirc the last thing i was using before switching to KDE (may have been 2) was fvwm95
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12:07<EdePopede>well it's the hardware i have here and i don't really like replacing everything every few years
12:08<EdePopede>and it's all fine unless firefox opened a few JS apps
12:08<EdePopede>(refusing to call these things websites)
12:09<EdePopede>after closing firefox the day before i was at 15 MEM% according to htop's entries with a bigger value than 0.0
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12:24<RoyK>, zabbix-agent
12:24<RoyK>,v zabbix-agent
12:24<judd>Package: zabbix-agent on amd64 -- stretch: 1:3.0.7+dfsg-3; stretch-backports: 1:4.0.3+dfsg-2~bpo9+1; buster: 1:4.0.4+dfsg-1; buster-backports: 1:5.0.8+dfsg-1~bpo10+1; bookworm: 1:5.0.8+dfsg-1; bullseye: 1:5.0.8+dfsg-1; sid: 1:5.0.8+dfsg-1
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12:28<somiaj>RoyK: you can always /msg judd v packagename too if the info is just for yourself.
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12:33<No1x3r0>I have some confusion regarding release states and packages. How do newer packages of software relate to stable versions of Debian that weren't released with it?
12:34<No1x3r0>For example: I'm under the understanding that LibreOffice is at version 7.2.0 yet even Sid much less Bullseye releases with versions 7.1.5 and 7.0.4 respectfully, my question is two fold, first how do app developers build newer .deb packages (likely with newer dependencies) when those supplied in the repos are older? and Second, what happens when you install a .deb from a websource that has requirements for newer depencies
12:34<somiaj>No1x3r0: In general stable is a frozen system, and newer releases do not make it into stable, you get the version that is released.
12:34<somiaj>No1x3r0: don't mix releases, do not install bullseye packages in buster, do not install sid packages in bullseye
12:35<No1x3r0>somiaj: I'm not trying to
12:35<somiaj>also testing and unstable (sid) are not releases, their are the development pools of debian
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12:35<somiaj>You may want to look at the debian workflow, but new packages get uploaded to sid (and are compiled with sid depends), these packages (and their depends) migrate to testing after 5-10 days if there are no rc-bugs or issues with the package preventing the migration
12:35<No1x3r0>somiaj: I'm simply asking what happens when you install LibreOffice from their website? and How is that .deb even built when it's not even available in Sid ?
12:36<somiaj>!don't break debian
12:36<dpkg>dont break debian is probably https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
12:37<No1x3r0>Gawd, now this distro is going to dictate what I can and can't download and install from other sources?
12:37<somiaj>No1x3r0: There are lots of different ways this can be done. One is they provide a static linked binary that has very minimial depends, a better approach is they target the release they want to build a .deb for, and compile the software against the libs in stable.
12:37<No1x3r0>might be moving on to more resonable distros
12:37<somiaj>Read that link, you can install thigns from other sources, but you need to do it in a sane fashion
12:37<vv221>No1x3r0, Debian will let you install anything ;)
12:37<vv221>But this IRC channel with mostly provide support only for not-messed-up-with Debian stable.
12:37<somiaj>I don't know about upstream libreoffice .debs, so I'm unsure what they are complied against, but if the debs are built for buster, you can install it
12:38<somiaj>In general if the third party software you want was not built for the version of debian you want to install it with, it is often better to just build from source and link it against stable libs than install a binary package.
12:38<No1x3r0>is Sid with experimental not even fully upstream compatible ?
12:39<somiaj>Note, this is an issue with any distro that uses shared libaries, the package you install form upstream neesd to target the distro you are running.
12:39<No1x3r0>somiaj: not with Arch
12:39<somiaj>It really depends on the upstream on if they target debian stable, or debian sid. Some do, some don't
12:40<No1x3r0>somiaj: Arch is full upstream up to date AFAICT
12:40<vv221>Well, then it seems you have your answer: /join #archlinux
12:41<somiaj>Debian stable does have different goals and policy than arch, but with a little bit of knowledge of how debian works, you can install stuff from upstream just fine.
12:41<No1x3r0>Are Debian releases built in 3 years so they can be 6 years behind ?
12:42<somiaj>Debian releases are meant for those who want stystems that don't change randomally during the relaese, adding new features, removing features, or even adding new bugs. That is the whole point of a debian stable release.
12:42<vv221>*plonk*
12:42<Tenkawa>No1x3r0: as soon as you compile party #2's src with party #1's lib's & bin's you have potential for mismatch issues if they were not done ier n parallel. It does not matter what distro you use.
12:43<somiaj>there are still people running debian jessie (and paying money to keep it secure), because newer doesn't always mean better for certain use cases.
12:43<Tenkawa>Arch would have the same problem with LO if they made a dramatic library change
12:43<No1x3r0>somiaj: don't change but are chalk full of security holes
12:43<somiaj>Anyways, debian's goals are to provide a fully supported frozen release for 2-3 years.
12:44<somiaj>No1x3r0: no they are not, debian backports security fixes to fix the security holes.
12:44<Tenkawa>s/ier n/ in
12:44<No1x3r0>Tenkawa: *IF*
12:45<Tenkawa>No1x3r0: well if they don't they miss a ton of security fixes
12:47<Tenkawa>cheers all.. time for mtg
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12:53<tepozoa>No1x3r0: debian is a very conservative distro, yes you will find many packages are not the newest but what the maintainers have deemed stable (which is frequently older) - it has it's place for people who need it to do what it does. If your general need is to run newer versions of upstream on a constant basis, other distros cater to that need/experience - Fedora, openSUSE Tumbleweep,
12:53<tepozoa>Arch, Ubuntu desktop, etc.
12:57<No1x3r0>somiaj: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/linux I see a lot of vulnerabilities
12:59<No1x3r0>tepozoa: and if I want a stable and SECURE debian ? can any of the branches offer me that ?
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13:00<somiaj>No1x3r0: Other distros ahve similar issues, they just may not be as public about it. Linux kernel securty fixes come every so often and fix a lot of things.
13:00<somiaj>Many trust debian to be secure and use it in production because they trust debian's security team to make reasonable decisions.
13:01<kts>Bullseye: KDE battery indicator of Thinkpad X230 is intermittently missing.
13:01<kts>Logging out and back in, it appears.
13:01<No1x3r0>somiaj: lets not talk about other distros, I'm talking about Debian? and BTW: https://security.archlinux.org/ yes they're public about it
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13:01<somiaj>No1x3r0: anyways it just sounds like you trust and like arch better, you should just that.
13:02<No1x3r0>somiaj: but what good are those Linux kernel security fixes if even SID doesn't have a steamlined path to the newer kernel ?
13:03<ydbi>EdePopede: 201 packages in a bare minimal installation through debian installer
13:03<ydbi>most of them are libraries though
13:04<ydbi>If I remove everything that starts with lib* then I end up with 94 packages
13:04<EdePopede>ydbi: ah thanks. i really want to set up a mini system at some point. just because.
13:05<EdePopede>sounds like few enough packages to have a complete dependency graph.
13:05<ydbi>if I remove linux kernel package and grub bootloader, then 88 packages
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13:07<ydbi>technically you can get away with only having 23 packages installed
13:07<ydbi>but you don't achieve that through the installer
13:07<somiaj>No1x3r0: testing/unstable does not have straight security support. The standard path is newer softweare is uploaded to sid when it is ready.
13:08<tepozoa>ydbi: I wonder how many of those are recommends which can just be removed
13:08<ydbi>tepozoa: none
13:08<ydbi>those 23 are essential
13:08<tepozoa>sorry I meant the bigger list
13:09<tepozoa>> 201 packages in...
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13:10<somiaj>No1x3r0: now the freeze just ended so packages weren't being uploaded to sid on a regurlar basis, sicne the focus is the release, but now that the freeze is no longer, maintainers will start to upload newer version to sid after they get the package ready, which takes some time depending on the package/matainer/etc
13:10<somiaj>ydbi: are you trying to build an embeded system or just see how minimial you can get debian?
13:11<ydbi>somiaj: I'm not, EdePopede was asking
13:11*EdePopede pleads guilty
13:11<ydbi>I just have lists of what's essential || required || important || standard || found on default bare installation, ...
13:12<No1x3r0>somiaj: how long has kernel 5.13.4 been "ready" they've had 5.13.12 and are on the 6RC of 5.14 now and bullseye and sid are still sitting (with holes) at 5.10.46 how READY do you need to be to plug security holes ? CVE-2021-38203 & CVE-2021-38199 and countless others could be addressed by simply updating the kernel
13:12<ydbi>for example, I think I'm the only one currently in possesion of a list of what gets installed if you select everything in the installer
13:13<EdePopede>and i'm still glad i started with linux early enough to no be crushed by just installing a minimal system. it was all very... well-aranged.
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13:16<mason>EdePopede: look at 'minbase' in debootstrap(8)
13:16<No1x3r0>Debian be like: https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/This-is-Fine-300x300.jpg
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13:17<mason>No1x3r0: You don't run Sid with the notion that there's security support of any kind. There explicitly isn't. So that there are vulnerabilities in Sid is not only unsurprising, it's expected.
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13:18<mason>Think of Sid as a development tool for Debian, not as something you should run.
13:18<No1x3r0>mason: you don't run any branch evidentally that there is security support of any kind... look through https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/linux how many vulnerabilities could be plugged with a new kernel
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13:18<No1x3r0>mason: and there being security vulnerabiliites in Bullseye ?
13:20<EdePopede>mason, nice hint
13:20<mason>No1x3r0: A more useful thing for you to do is look at specific CVEs and see if they've been addressed in Stable.
13:20<Booda>much like with sudo the linux dev team have ignored many kernel vulns in the past and didnt patch them till very later on
13:20<somiaj>mason: int his case most of them haven't yet, but look at them and decide if they are actually an issue for you is more likely, most are just low level security issues that only effect some systems, and will probably be patched with the next kernel update in bullseye.
13:20<No1x3r0>mason: I've already given two examples of where they haven't
13:21<mason>EdePopede: FWIW, this is how I go about straight sysvinit installs. Minbase, then I fill in any missing Priority required|important|standard packages sans systemd.
13:21<No1x3r0>CVE-2021-38203 & CVE-2021-38199
13:21<somiaj>No1x3r0: you can always compile your own kernel if you like, and not use the debian one if you don't trust the debian security team. They don't post an update with every single small CVE that hits (they often pool them together), but if a sever issue hits, they usually get that fixed farily quickly
13:22<mason>somiaj: What I haven't had the time/energy to dig up yet is the notion that fixes are backported, so the Debian kernel and the upstream kernel of the same version aren't all that close, but that's most valuable with specific examples and I still need coffee.
13:22<EdePopede>sans systemd is also on my bucket list (it's really long)
13:22<No1x3r0>somiaj: and see if that breaks other things debian got wrong, no thank you; better to move on to another sane distro
13:22<mason>EdePopede: I'll share my install script. It's surprisingly painless once you dig in.
13:22<Booda>go fuzz the fuck out of the kernel would ya, need to find vulns
13:22<EdePopede>and now that i found out that there's a 0.9.3 on my CD box from 1996 i want to throw it into a VM asap :)
13:23<mason>heh
13:23<EdePopede>that one https://archive.org/details/ldr_0496_6cd
13:23<somiaj>mason: but debian clearly documents this, the security tracker shows various CVE's that are currntly not fixed in the bullseye kernel. They are mostly low risk
13:24<somiaj>No1x3r0: then move on
13:24<No1x3r0>somiaj: thats all I needed your conceednece
13:25<No1x3r0>concedence* ?
13:25<somiaj>No distro is 100% secure, and Debian isn't for everyone, but many trust debian and their security team to make reasonable decisions, and everything is out in the open so as you see there are secuirty issues, they just aren't considered grave enough to rush a fix out right away, and one will most likely come with the next kernel update
13:26<No1x3r0>somiaj: of course not, but some are closer and not so dated and long in the tooth, hell even slackware's latest offering has newr stuff and it's the oldest distro still around
13:26<Booda>laziness
13:26<mason>EdePopede: Actually, if I wait I risk it never happening, so here are the salient bits. (The installer also focusses on encrypted ZFS, but that's not relevant here.) https://bpa.st/IPSA
13:27<mason>somiaj: Yeah, understood. I have no issue with how Debian security stuff is prioritized.
13:27<somiaj>No1x3r0: seems like your goal is to try to convicen us debian sucks as opposed to actually learn how debian works and why it chooses to do things a particular way. This is not the place for that.
13:27<EdePopede>mason: thanks, may take its time (still have to get to Bullseye, 2nd weekend i missed it) but i'll do it
13:28<mason>EdePopede: I haven't done such an install with Bullseye yet, but I'm setting up a build box today so I'll have my custom stuff ready for the attempt.
13:28<somiaj>the many users of debian are perfectally fine with the secuirty team and support it gets and prefer it over other things, but others want newer stuff and prefer other security models, that's fine
13:28<EdePopede>and i klicked again on "source code" when i wanted "raw". always happens in this pastebin :>
13:28<EdePopede>so this is buster?
13:28<mason>https://bpa.st/raw/IPSA
13:28<mason>Buster, yes. I have no reason to think it'd be a problem with Bullseye but I need to exercise it.
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13:30<EdePopede>btw, there's this boot thingy for DVD (i know, debian says, don't use them they may do things, but this one just tries to run the ISO it seems, i checksum'd them). can't remember its name right now, something with y iirc. you just throw ISOs into some directory and it lists it at the next boot.
13:31<No1x3r0>somiaj: no my goal is to help you realize: https://www.bollyinside.com/news/at-least-100-engineers-are-shirking-their-responsibilities-in-the-linux-kernel-and-toolchain
13:31<EdePopede>the thing is it works perfectly with everything i got on the stick on the other PC (a 2012 ThinkCentre with UEFI, not sure if it's turned off), but not on this 2007 machine (no UEFI). any idea?
13:32<EdePopede>it's a 64GB stick, so i'd really prefer to just add the Bullseye installer to it if possible instead of having to free another one just for this task.
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13:32<No1x3r0>somiaj: I know why and understand how it worked in the past, but I'm trying to help you realize that the old ways are creating more problems than solving... for instance: https://it.slashdot.org/story/21/08/16/2131221/linux-glibc-security-fix-created-a-nastier-linux-bug
13:33<No1x3r0>but as I said: https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/This-is-Fine-300x300.jpg
13:33<somiaj>Well take this else where and let teh channel get back to debian support
13:34<EdePopede>Ventoy
13:34*No1x3r0 needs to build distro "Sid's Parent"
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13:35<Nivex>Isn't that BSD?
13:35<No1x3r0>don't get me started on BSD
13:35<Nivex>so you just like to complain?
13:36<No1x3r0>Nivex: when there's things to compalin about
13:36<No1x3r0>complain* even
13:36<Nivex>then as somiaj noted, there are better venues for that
13:37<No1x3r0>interesting Comp-Lain ... hrmmm serial experiments of Lain
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13:37<No1x3r0>Nivex: right, Rant Digress
13:39<vv221>mason, as far as I know Debian Sid as as much security support than Arch Linux or Gentoo has ;) (a.k.a. you get the fixes when upstream publish them, by upgrading to the new version)
13:39<vv221>*has as much
13:39<No1x3r0>wait, one more... on Debian I get firmware errors even on boot, but other distros not including but not limited to BSD, and Manjaro ... not sure if it's Debian release specific or outdated kernel or what
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13:40<sney>debian separates linux-firmware into packages in non-free, you can install those packages individually if you need them
13:40<No1x3r0>vv221: only for kernel, doesn't apply to lowly packages such as LibreOffice evidentally ?
13:41<sney>some drivers (r8169) will complain about firmware but usually function fine without
13:41<No1x3r0>hell doesn't even apply for kernel honestly
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13:41<No1x3r0>sney: oh it functions fine, but complains when the other's don't
13:42<tobi>15
13:42<No1x3r0>sney: "functions fine" is an assumption who knows what breakage lurks
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13:42<sney>specifically, there are a few different revisions of r8169 gigabit nic, and only some of them require firmware. but the driver will warn for all of them.
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13:42<xpc>hi?
13:42<sney>hi
13:43<xpc>this is my first time using irc
13:43<xpc>any tips ?
13:43<sney>other drivers only need firmware for some optional features, but the driver will always warn about the missing file regardless of whether you need/want those features.
13:43<sney>!new2irc
13:43<dpkg>You are chatting on IRC. IRC is the original group chat. Similar to platforms like Slack, Matrix, or Discord, IRC was invented in the 1980s and formalized with RFC 1459 in 1993. This channel, #debian, is for help with the debian operating system. Ask us a debian support question, or read more about IRC at https://netsplit.de or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC
13:44<No1x3r0>sney: device in question is a MacBook Air mid 2012... and it's no particular hardware I can tell, just a BIOS or firmware thing; again only seen in Debian not in Manjaro not sure if it's a Kernel thing or not and it's not happening with BSD either
13:44<sney>this being #debian, we're not super familiar with what bsd or manjaro warns about on boot. so if you want specific responses, you'll just have to show a paste of what you mean.
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13:45<No1x3r0>sney: DOESN'T Warn, but you should know what Debian warns and why when it obviously SHOULDN'T
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13:46<No1x3r0>sney, let me go boot up debian to take a picture
13:46<sney>your comparison is with other OSes that are irrelevant here. do you want help with what you're seeing on your screen, or do you want to debate semantics?
13:46<No1x3r0>sney: except the other OSes use the same kernel debian does
13:47<sney>I'm pretty sure BSD doesn't, but ok, that sounds like your answer.
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13:49<somiaj>No1x3r0: please take this elsewhere, it is clear you are not here for debian support, but to rant, this is not a place to rant, you can redirect it to /dev/null
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13:49<xpc>nice lol
13:50<xpc>how long will bullseye be supported for
13:50<xpc>?
13:50<sney>about 2 years as stable, plus 3 more as LTS
13:50<somiaj>xpc: and nother 2 years as ELTS
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13:51<somiaj>xpc: so depending on your needs you can get 2-7 years
13:51<xpc>oh nice
13:51<somiaj>arg 3-7 years
13:51<xpc>im actually using this on an old machine
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13:51<somiaj>anyways LTS and ELTS don't support all packages and only support amd64 and i386 I belive. Unless you have specific needs I would say 2-3 years per release
13:52<No1x3r0>somiaj: me taking a picture for sney to diagnose the problem isn't for support ?
13:52<xpc>cause this machine is i386
13:52<sney>linux is a lot more forgiving with old hardware, it's true
13:52<xpc>and it only has 1.5 GB of ram so....
13:52<somiaj>No1x3r0: you are using the guise as support to fule more of your rants about how bad debian is. I assume someone of your intelligence can figure out these issues for yourself.
13:53<xpc>sney: for sure
13:53<No1x3r0>sney: except in the case of a 2012 MacBook Air it would seem
13:53<sney>xpc: atom?
13:53<xpc>sney: what?
13:53<sney>the i386 cpu, is it an atom?
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13:54<xpc>sney: oh. i dont actually know
13:54<No1x3r0>somiaj: you ASSUME wrong, and twist your views as you will, doesn't deny the truth
13:54<sney>that's most of the surviving 32-bit chips I've seen around, though I guess there are some real survivors out there too
13:54<xpc>what other distros support i386?
13:54<blast007>some of the atoms are also 64-bit with a 32-bit UEFI
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13:55<sney>not sure, probably slackware, I'm sure there's a list on wikipedia or so
13:55<alex>is there a recommended way to add an entire /64 IPv6 block to /etc/network/interfaces?
13:55<scorpion2185[m]>can I set the kernels to be kept?
13:56<sney>scorpion2185[m]: 'apt-mark manual' any kernel package you do not want marked for autoremove
13:56<xpc>sney: I wish arch had support for i386
13:57<jhutchins>xpc: What would that be useful for?
13:57<sney>distros that drop architecture support usually do it because they don't have enough hardware for build/test purposes anymore. I'm sure arch would have been willing to keep it if they had the infrastructure and enough demand
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13:57<xpc>sney: arch would even be better on old hardware as it uses less memory in my exeperience
13:58<sney>nah, memory management is a linux kernel thing. arch has a reputation for being "lightweight" but it can be just as bloated as anything, it depends on what you install and how you use it
13:58<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: you can also take a look at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove
13:58<scorpion2185[m]>is there a way to automatically mark max numbers of kernels?
13:58<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: you can use this to say keep the last 3 or last 5 kernels (instead of the default at least 1)
13:59<sney>anyway,
13:59<sney>!offtopic
13:59<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
13:59<scorpion2185[m]>somiaj: thanks, but it is keeping a lot of kernels
13:59<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: actually nevermind, that isn't the right file, but there is a way you can configure how autoremove deals with kernels to keep more
13:59<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: oh so you don't want it to keep so many kernels?
14:00<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: and apt autoremove isn't removing them? Did the kernels get marked as manual?
14:00<scorpion2185[m]>yes I had to remove them manually when I upgraded no space left
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14:00<xpc>thanks guys. but how do i get out of this channel properly as I am new to irc
14:00<sney>xpc: you can /part or /quit
14:01<somiaj>xpc: depends on if you want to just leave the channel or quit the program
14:01<alex11>does anyone know if screen will show up in ps -e?
14:01<jhutchins>xpc: In irssi /wc (window close).
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14:01<vv221>Wait, leaving IRC? It can be done??
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14:01<scorpion2185[m]>I marked old kernels (4.x.x) but then I removed them. IF you have also rt you will have the double of kernels
14:01<alex11>it cannot; that's an untrusted rumour
14:02<scorpion2185[m]>can I check/set the number ?
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14:03<scorpion2185[m]>I only want to keep 2 kernels
14:04<mason>EdePopede: I had such a thing. Zalman device IIRC. I prefer normal USB sticks or netbooting.
14:04<mason>No1x3r0: Assume that your system is loaded with future CVEs as yet undiscovered or at least unpublished, and address security by assuming the worst and imposing the principle of least privilege everywhere.
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14:05<mason>That'll be more important than playing whack-a-mole in any event.
14:05<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: look at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels (are all your kernels listed there to not auto remove)
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14:07<somiaj>and /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal is the script that is run after kernels are installed that updates that file to keep older kernels. By default is should only be keeping one, but you can go look and debug why it is keeping so many around.
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14:08<sney>it's keeping 2 sets of 2 because scorpion2185[m] has the linux-image-amd64 *and* linux-image-rt-amd64 metapackages installed. so both are behaving normally, with kernel version n and n-1 kept on disk
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14:09<sney>if you need to keep the regular and realtime kernels installed, rather than one or the other, make /boot big enough to handle it
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14:10<dedup>hi, are btrfs+virtiofsd stable enough© to feed kvm guests with directory trees? to boot guests from them?
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14:13<sney>dedup: afaik btrfs is fine as long as you're not using one of the known-broken parity configurations (see upstream's wiki for details), and virtiofs is new-ish but probably worth doing extended testing in a lab environment at least?
14:13<sney>if you need a production hypervisor you might want to go with something a little more established, though.
14:14<No1x3r0>sney: https://imgur.com/a/VNDpXBH
14:15<blast007>No1x3r0: what problem are you encountering beyond those messages?
14:15<mason>dedup: For comparison, ZFS backing libvirt is solid and common. More common still for bigger environments is dedicated storage where hypervisor and storage is distinct, and storage is handled by something well-known and trusted, be it appliance or cluster or whatever.
14:15<No1x3r0>blast007: non that I can tell so far
14:16<No1x3r0>none*
14:16<blast007>then you can probably just ignore those messages
14:16<mason>s/storage is/storage are/ grammar strikes again
14:16<No1x3r0>blast007: https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/This-is-Fine-300x300.jpg
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14:17<No1x3r0>Debian: It's our policy to IGNORE problems because it's the Debian way
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14:18<mason>No1x3r0: Be the change you want to be in the world. Be the spearhead of users rushing to Arch, or whatever. Be the first out of the channel! Be the change!
14:18<blast007>except it isn't causing any problems as far as you're aware
14:18<blast007>so what would Debian do? delete those messages from the linux kernel?
14:18<crawler>You have spent more than an hour doing the thing you are doing. You could have used that time to contribute to whatever you support instead of this.
14:18<No1x3r0>mason: after you... https://www.bollyinside.com/news/at-least-100-engineers-are-shirking-their-responsibilities-in-the-linux-kernel-and-toolchain
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14:19<mason>I read that the first time it was linked. That was interesting. Didn't talk about CHERI so it didn't seem wildly well-researched.
14:19<No1x3r0>blast007: maybe colaborate with other distros and find out how they resolved the issue
14:19<alex>if a network interface has multiple IP addresses, how do you set which one to use as the default route?
14:20-!-qwer [~qwer@78-80-26-65.customers.tmcz.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:20<mason>alex: Depends on your networking software, but remember that NIC addresses and routing tables are somewhat distinct.
14:21<No1x3r0>blast007: oh that's right they resolved the issue with an updated kernel, but that's not the Debian way since it hasn't been vetted yet; guess we'll have to wait till the issue is obsolete by a new release in 3 more years.
14:22<alex>i am just using ifupdown, configured in /etc/network/interfaces
14:22<dedup>sney, mason: thanks. threating servers and workstations seperately then: how about a production bullseye laptop, to be able to run untrusted stuff, gui apps, even ugly os guests?
14:22*dedup treating* :)
14:23<mason>dedup: I can't really speak to your threat model, sorry. Wouldn't be responsible to say "yeah, that's fine" if I don't know the workload, environment, or most of the salient details.
14:23<blast007>No1x3r0: if you don't like Debian, nobody is forcing you to use it. Pick another distro.
14:23<No1x3r0>now I understand why Steam dumped Debian for Arch
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14:24<crawler>,v modsecurity-csr
14:24<judd>No package named 'modsecurity-csr' was found in amd64.
14:24<mason>No1x3r0: Link? SteamOS was based on Ubuntu, but I'm curious now.
14:24<crawler>,v modsecurity-crs
14:24<judd>Package: modsecurity-crs on amd64 -- stretch: 3.0.0-3; stretch-backports: 3.0.2-1~bpo9+1; buster: 3.1.0-1+deb10u1; buster-backports: 3.3.0-1~bpo10+1; bookworm: 3.3.0-1; bullseye: 3.3.0-1; sid: 3.3.0-1
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14:25<No1x3r0>mason: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/08/valves-upcoming-steam-deck-will-be-based-on-arch-linux-not-debian/
14:25<blast007>mason: SteamOS 1.0 and 2.0 were based on Debian, according to Wikipedia, and 3.0 will be based on Arch.
14:25<sney>debian-style stability and the constant patching and driver updates of the gamer ecosystem are not really a good match. steam switching to arch makes sense. it's not a value judgement of either OS, it's just a practical choice.
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14:25<No1x3r0>mason: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/heres-why-steamos-switched-from-debian-to-arch-linux
14:26<blast007>No1x3r0: so install Arch
14:26<No1x3r0>mason: https://www.bollyinside.com/news/following-are-the-reasons-why-steamos-migrated-from-debian-to-arch-linux
14:26<mason>No1x3r0: Thank you. Will read.
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14:27<dedup>mason: theat model would be that of a typical sysadmin, I guess: safeguarding ssh keys/ram, ansible confs etc. from anything else while switching betzeen envs back and forth all the time
14:27<crawler>finally...
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14:28<crawler>oh
14:28<No1x3r0>maybe I should look into Darwin
14:28<RoyK>Hurd?
14:28<No1x3r0>XNU
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14:30<dedup>mason: (still focusing on the laptop side, here)
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14:34<RoyK>No1x3r0: https://xkcd.com/1508/
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14:43<dedup>mason: I'm not keen to use zfs on a laptop. so I'd share only data for now, via 9p virtio?
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14:45<mason>dedup: Apologies, I have enough going on that I don't feel I could do the topic justice at present.
14:47<flowriser>we don't talk about Hurd
14:47<dedup>mason: no worries and sorry to quote you then, I was only trying to help your irc flow :)
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14:48<mason>dedup: I appreciate it. :)
14:48<tepozoa>alex: there's a lot of nuance in how you can configure a secondary IP; in general, ifupdown activates in the order listed in interfaces; assuming two IPs in the same subnet, the first one will be the default outgoing sourced IP
14:49<tepozoa>one of the more interesting ways to do it is add the second IP as an "up ..." configuration to the primary IP (so no alias) and in the "up ip addr add..." command you include the keyword "secondary"
14:50<tepozoa>a secondary IP will not assume route/source ownership if the primary fails, it's slaved - so if primary fails, secondary comes down too. This is handy for floating cluster IPs which can move around
14:50<dedup>I feel our wiki pages about virt and btrfs are quite outdated (not blaming anyone here) so I find it hard to find RECs for bullseye on these topics
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14:51<mason>dedup: The upstream btrfs page is kept up to date.
14:51<jhutchins>dedup: So you've been slacking on doing your share to update them, eh?
14:51<No1x3r0>RoyK: seems right, lol; but you got me thinking, maybe I should try Debian Hurd and see if I get the same messages
14:51<mason>dedup: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page
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14:53<No1x3r0>Hurds, "btrfs is a modern copy on write (CoW) filesystem for Linux "; Cows, maybe india had it right
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14:55<No1x3r0>RoyK: on another note, why is xkcd racist ?
14:55<toad_>Where have the --force options gone for apt-get? I can't find them in the man page. I have a foreign package that somehow managed to partly install without its dependencies, it needs php installed to run the uninstall script, but apt-get install php-cli or apt-get -f install fail because the script fails. Ideas?
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14:56<toad_>I want to increase the maximum number of errors to 2 so that it skips the failure to remove the broken package and then goes on to install the package that I need installed for the broken package's uninstall script to work :|
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14:57<tepozoa>toad_: ran into this once, a circular "can't install bash (pkg) without bash (binary)" caused by accidental bash removal. my hack was to copy the bash binary from another system over to allow the bash (pkg) scripts to complete
14:58<No1x3r0>RoyK: first, the stick figure is saying BLM when he, (she, it) is clearly white and second; why use a segregating term as "Black"
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14:58<tepozoa>look at the error in the script and see if you can temporarily solve the problem with a quick manual hack
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14:58<toad_>tepozoa: So downloading the packages manually is my only option?
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14:59<tepozoa>well depends on the exact error - throw your output into paste.debian.net and let's have a look
14:59<tepozoa>this is one of those get-creative moments
14:59<Nivex>now I'm convinced No1x3r0 is a troll.
14:59<No1x3r0>Nivex: and you're inflaming that context with that coment
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15:00<somiaj>toad_: you can manually edit the uninstall script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.{pre,post}rm
15:00<Nivex>uh huh
15:00<somiaj>toad_: and this way you can make it sot he uninstall script runs correctly and removes the package (note anything not done with the script may ahve to be done manually)
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15:00<tepozoa>^ I like that idea too
15:01<dedup>thanks mason, it's one of my refs for over a year, but for example this is not up to date https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Gotchas
15:01<tepozoa>even a simple "exit 0" at the top might work
15:01<toad_>Yeah, make the uninstall script do nothing
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15:01<somiaj>tepozoa: works wonders, but could also leave artificats on the machine, better to just fix the broken part
15:02<tepozoa>a little manual cleanup maybe
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15:02<somiaj>maybe comment out the aprt that requires php in this case
15:02<tepozoa>yeah - what _I_ usually do is get over the initial hurdle to make it "work" (apt), the install and remove/purge it again
15:02<tepozoa>that forces the scripts to re-run and clean up
15:03<dedup>and I think our d-i man for bullseye does not even list btrfs as yet (but it worked fine for me with manual partitionning)
15:03<somiaj>dedup: have you checked the expert isntaller, you can often load additional modules, wonder if btrfs is there.
15:04<tepozoa>don't do this in Production, but sometimes a <script can't run because command is missing> solve is to ln -s /bin/true <program> *polite cough*
15:04<dedup>somiaj: no need, btrfs is selectable in normal install as I just implied
15:05<somiaj>oh I missunderstood, I thought the d-i didn't list it and you had to manually create the filesystem...opps
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15:06<amacater>somiaj: If all else fails - to check what's there and what's not in any given install, work through a text mode expert install which asks more questions.
15:07<ydbi>you can't really setup btrfs properly though the installer options though
15:07<ydbi>you need to drop to the virtual console and issue the commands manually
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15:08<ydbi>unless your intention is to just have a single btrfs volume spanning the whole drive, with no subvolumes, no support for snapshots, etc.
15:08<ydbi>but why even use btrfs then?
15:08<amacater>That's entirely feasible as part of the install
15:10<ydbi>amacater: have a look at the opensuse installer to see how btrfs is supposed to be done properly
15:10<ydbi>and then compare it to the debian installer
15:11<amacater>ydbi - Take a look at the opensuse installer on ten architectures - then come back .. :)
15:12<ydbi>debian if you want all the architectures, opensuse if you want proper btrfs setup by default
15:12<amacater>All sorts of ways to install an OS - some you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy :D
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15:15<dedup>somiaj: d-i creates a btrfs rootfs subvol just fine, even if selecting a pre-existing luks-lvm, and all is nicely bootable as a result, it's only our manual that's incomplete I think, not sure if intentional https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.en.html#di-partition
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15:16<dedup>(all I had to do was opening the crypt and activating vgs from tty2, as usual)
15:17<ydbi>that's the "problem", btrfs requires dropping to tty from the installer in order to deal with many/most usecases
15:19<dedup>in this case it's only needed because d-i doesn't support installing over an existing luks, nothing special was reauired for btrfs here (I always do the same for ext4)
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15:21<dedup>(editing /target/etc/crypttab is the other thing needed)
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15:26*dedup afk
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15:49<scorpion2185[m]>sney: but if there is more space it keeps more kernels
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15:52<scorpion2185[m]>somiaj: I looked the files not sure how to debug
15:53<scorpion2185[m]>If I click nemo it won't start a new instance
15:53<scorpion2185[m]>unless I use the CLI
15:53<sney>it does not keep kernels based on how much space there is
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15:54<scorpion2185[m]>usually with default Deb boot partition (too small) it keeps 2 . After I make it bigger it keeps more
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15:55<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: it keeps two per name, so as sney said eariler if you want both rt kernels and mainline kernels, just increase the size of /boot
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15:55<somiaj>i.e. it keeps the current version adn one version older for each kernel type
15:56<scorpion2185[m]>yes, but if there is more space it keeps more
15:56<sney>/boot on my system is not a separate partition so it could concievably fill up all 139G that I have free on that disk! no, that's a fiction
15:56<sney>you're imagining it because you installed 2 kernel metapackages
15:56<scorpion2185[m]>on the other pc I don't have rt
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15:58<scorpion2185[m]>I' ve read that it keeps max 3 version and if it is in doubt it keeps more version
15:58<somiaj>autoremove doesn't care about the size of /boot, it cares about current version, previous version, current running kernel, and packages that are marked as manual.
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15:59<somiaj>but for more details you'll have to dig into the scripts and/or provide us more details about the actual system that we can see the actual output, state of the packages, if they are manual or not, etc
15:59<scorpion2185[m]>I don't say that apt autoremove or something cares about the free space but if there space it keeps more than 2 versions
16:00<scorpion2185[m]>Now I removed the kernels manually and no PKGs were marked manually
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16:04<scorpion2185[m]>https://askubuntu.com/questions/620266/how-does-apt-decide-how-many-old-kernels-to-keep/620281#620281
16:07<tjcarter>(poorly, if my experience running Mint is anything to go by.)
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16:09<tjcarter>That might've been a difference of how Mint installs things; they don't use auto very well.
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16:24<amacater>Normally two kernels - present and previous. If you install a new kernel, it's always worth rebooting to make sure you're using the latest if you're unsure.
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16:29<tjcarter>amacater: or check. 😛 But yeah, always keep two in case you upgrade to a lemon
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16:47<bartax>hi everyone, is it possible to set the clear type effect of windows xp on the lxqt desktop icons?
16:50<tjcarter>bartax: as in Microsoft ClearType?
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16:53<tjcarter>bartax: Go into the font configuration (search for "appearance") and the "antialiasing" features are listed below the font selection
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16:58<bartax>yes as in microsoft cleartype
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17:05<tjcarter>bartax: get it sorted?
17:05<EmleyMoor>If I can remember the supervisor password for my laptop there's a chance I can get it working again
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17:05<EmleyMoor>If not, I'll have to get a friend to help me kill the password
17:05<tjcarter>EmleyMoor: Tweezers?
17:06<bartax>i can not set this type of effect :(
17:06<EmleyMoor>tjcarter: Tweezers would be very useful for it
17:06<tjcarter>bartax: https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/customize-the-lxqt-desktop/ look under Fonts on that page.
17:06<bartax>i tried also to log out and log in back but nothing changed..
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17:07<tjcarter>Subpixel antialiasing is cleartype by another name
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17:08<bartax>ok I understand, it's already set
17:08<tjcarter>Your screen may not be RGB though
17:09<tjcarter>It's quite possibly BGR
17:09<bartax>however the shadow of the desktop fonts is not enough
17:09<tjcarter>That's not ClearType, it's a font shadow.
17:09<bartax>ok now I do a couple of tests and I'll let you know, thanks for now
17:10<tjcarter>(and yes, depending on your background and the theme colors, it might be not enough…)
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17:10<bartax>I remember that when I set the clear type on windows xp, the shadows of the desktop fonts were more accentuated and read better
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17:12<bartax>in essence the text of the icons was more visible
17:13<bartax>sto usando un traduttore, sono più bravo a leggere in inglese e non molto bravo a scrivere
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17:13<bartax>I'm using a translator, I'm better at reading in English and not very good at writing
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17:18<bartax>nothing, I can't get a little extra shadow in the text of the desktop icons
17:18<bartax>thanks for helping me
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17:20<bartax>goodbye to everyone, see you next time! :)
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17:28<bartax>in any case, is it possible to increase the text shadow of the lxqt desktop icons?
17:28-!-srgrint [~srgrint@13.201.159.143.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: srgrint]
17:28<marwan>hi
17:29<bartax>hi
17:29<marwan>hhow are you
17:29<bartax>i'm fine if I can increase the shadow of the lxqt desktop icons :)
17:30<marwan>ahhh good
17:30<bartax>:)
17:30<marwan>iam trying hacking bitcoin wallet
17:30<marwan>:)
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17:31<marwan>iam closing now terminal goodbye bartax
17:32<bartax>I just want a little more shade in the desktop icons :)
17:32<bartax>bye bye
17:32<marwan>bye friend
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17:34<sney>bartax: maybe try asking in #lxqt if you don't get any answers here.
17:34<sney>!lxqt
17:34<dpkg>The Lightweight Qt Desktop Environment (LXQt) is available since Debian 9.0 "Stretch". It can be selected in the Debian Installer, or ask me about <install lxqt>. https://wiki.debian.org/LXQt https://lxqt-project.org/ #lxqt on irc.oftc.net.
17:34-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
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17:35<EmleyMoor>Is there anything I can do to get a trace on what sudo is doing? I have a bug/weirdness in my sudoers files, I think
17:39-!-money [~marwan@8L3AAEC9Q.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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17:39<vv221>bartax, don’t waste time answering to marwan, he’s only a troll who has been spamming this channel lately ;)
17:40<money>who is marwan
17:40<bartax>EmleyMoor, try to take a look at /var/log/auth.log file
17:40<sney>some loser, seems to have gone to the trouble of setting up tor just to come back to a channel that doesn't want him around
17:40<crawler>the bitcoin wallet hacker wannabe
17:40<bartax>yes i yes I had understood that it was not so normal
17:40<sney>thinks he's a hacker. probably about 14 at the most
17:40<vv221>crawler, money *is* marwan ;)
17:40<money>nooo
17:40<money>hahha
17:41<money>i love joking
17:41<money>hi bartax
17:41<crawler>this is a support channel, try to stick to the subject
17:42<crawler>EmleyMoor /var/log/auth.log , you might want to increase how verbose it is to find the issue cause
17:42<money>ok but iam not debian os iam parrot security os
17:42<vv221>!parrot
17:42<dpkg>Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on irc.libera.chat or the community pages https://docs.parrotlinux.org/community. Ask me about <based on debian> and <parrot-overnight>. If you are new to linux, try using Debian: http://www.debian.org.
17:42<money>thanks dpkg
17:42<money>hiiii everyone
17:43<flowriser>!hurd
17:43<dpkg>GNU Hurd (<HIRD> of Unix-Replacing Daemons) is a POSIX-compatible collection of servers which run on the Mach microkernel. It is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ #hurd on irc.libera.chat. For the Debian GNU/Hurd port (not an official Debian release), see https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/ and https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/hurd-news #debian-hurd on irc.oftc.net.
17:43<money>hi flowriser
17:44<bartax>can someone help me to increase the shadow of the text of the desktop icons? T_T
17:44<money>meee
17:44<money>bartax
17:45<sney>bartax: did you ask in #lxqt? or look at the manual? desktop customization is not really something a lot of us know about, particularly outside gnome/kde/xfce
17:45<money>do you have facebook bartax
17:45-!-Nivex [~nivex@00011e18.user.oftc.net] has left #debian [WeeChat 3.2]
17:45<sney>!ops money aka marwan ban evasion
17:45<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: sney complains about a problem (see above)
17:45<bartax>yes I asked but no one answered me..
17:45<money>iammm
17:45<sney>bartax: in smaller channels sometimes you have to be patient.
17:46<bartax>I know, my question may seem stupid and useless, but for me it is not..
17:46<sney>if it's not an emergency to change your icon shadow right now, you can idle in that channel for a while until someone answers
17:46<money>meee bartax
17:48<bartax>ok sney, thanks. I try to ask again and wait a little longer in the hope that someone will answer me, thanks again, bye bye
17:49-!-bartax [~bartax@host-79-13-98-240.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:49<money>bye batrax
17:49-!-Booda [~booda@7YZAACLQO.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:49-!-Booda is "user" on #linux #oftc #tor #fdroid #ck #C #biz #aarch64-laptops #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #debian
17:50<money>hi Booda
17:50<Booda>hi
17:50<money>how are you?
17:50-!-maknho [~maknho@0002bfb5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50<Booda>!chat
17:50<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
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17:52<money>bye iam closing now
17:52<tjcarter>… #moocows? 😆
17:52<money>bye Booda
17:52<money>bye everyone
17:53-!-money [~marwan@8L3AAEC9Q.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
17:53<EmleyMoor>\o/
17:53<sney>won't be for long, marwan has been leaving and coming back repeatedly since they discovered irc for the first time yesterday
17:54<crawler>LOL
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17:54<Maulkin> hrmp
17:55<EmleyMoor>At least he's not using Comic Chat
17:55<sney>a *!*marwan@* ban would probably work until they figure out how to change usernames
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17:56<mason>sney: Is it the same person? They're coming from a different IP if so.
17:56<sney>mason: yes, they set up tor
17:56<mason>Oh, they must be or you wouldn't say that. I didn't look. Sorry.
17:56<mason>ah
17:56-!-bitblit [~bitblit@8L3AAEBZB.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:57<mason>Does OFTC support the notion of only registered nicks speaking? Or is that too harsh given real-world usage?
17:57<Maulkin>Yes, we do.
17:57<sney>it does, but the policy for #debian is not to do that because it's hostile to newbies
17:57<mason>kk
17:57<cc>that kind of mode is not very productive in a public support channel
17:57<Maulkin>Also, added a network wide akill.
17:58<crawler>thank you Maulkin
17:58<sney>nice :)
17:58-!-wallacer [~quassel@2001:bc8:1824:9a:cafe:babe:b00b:aa03] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:59<Maulkin>It won't be perfect, but may catch the casual connection attempt. If issues remain, debian ops know how to contact us :)
17:59<tjcarter>He doesn't seem harmful … just not very bright.
17:59<Maulkin>Or try #oftc
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17:59<Maulkin>I mean, we can turn off tor... but that seems a bit overkill for what is (admittedly annoying) but low levels of abuse.
18:00<sney>right, I'm sure marwan will just get tired or figure out how to connect to a different network, once they fail to come back here a few more times
18:00<Booda>always annoying when people say "ban Tor", just stop new tor connections for the next hr or so
18:00<Booda>oftc does this
18:01<Maulkin>Booda: Yeah, that's what I meant. Hi, look at /whois Maulkin :P
18:01<Booda>;)
18:02<EmleyMoor>Which app I use a lot on Debian sound like it has gone mad?
18:02<EmleyMoor>sounds*
18:03<crawler>EmleyMoor would you please rephrase that question?
18:03<sney>that doesn't really clarify your question
18:03*Booda listens to EmleyMoor OS
18:04<sussudio>hey remember that time a fishing boat pulled up 2 cables near egypt and disconnected half of north africa? that would shut up marwan.
18:04<EmleyMoor>Fortunately it's not a serious question - but I mentioned "xsane" to somebody the other day and he said "that sounds like it's gone mad"
18:04<crawler>hey and me too, and I will miss the first bullseye point release testing :(
18:04<cc>I agree that the guy did not seem harmful, however the fact that he does not even use debian does not work in his favor here
18:05-!-hlauer [~hlauer@ip5f596799.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:05<sney>and just 0 respect for the volunteers here, or what the channel is for, and way too much noise
18:06<sussudio>he could just join freenode and chat with that lonely asshole pederast, or whatever his nick was.
18:06<tjcarter>He doesn't? I just popped in last night. I haven't hung out in #debian regularly since … um, I think Clinton was US president.
18:06<cc>we've all been 13 at some point
18:06<vv221>And now noise is made about the noise they made, they are really good at that ;P
18:06<sney>EmleyMoor: sane is named ironically, I'm sure. do you have a support question about it?
18:06<vv221>cc, some of us are born already old and grumpy.
18:06<sney>(though my advice is usually "get a mfp that can scan to a cifs share, and do that")
18:06<Maulkin>I should probably also suggest that random chatting should go to #debian-offtopic at this point, even amongst regulars.
18:07<Maulkin>Thank you <3 :)
18:07<EmleyMoor>No. I'd love to get some kind of mfp at some point, though
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18:14<EmleyMoor>So far, apart from a few tangles with sudo, bullseye is working just fine for me
18:15<tjcarter>what bit you with sudo?
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18:16<EmleyMoor>tjcarter: It seems my membership of the "kvm" group no longer triggers the right action - have now enabled debugging to help me track down why it might be messing me about
18:16<tjcarter>EmleyMoor: A cool thing about modern MFPs is that they all basically just work with Linux distributions like Debian kinda thanks to Apple. I still won't buy an inkjet personally. But reasons for that are -offtopic fodder
18:17<tjcarter>EmleyMoor: are you not a member of the sudo group?
18:17<EmleyMoor>tjcarter: I am, but I need my "kvm" group to have no-password access to certain commands.
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18:18<tjcarter>ah, that's the problem then, okay
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18:19<tjcarter>EmleyMoor: I've mostly switched to using doas for that kind of thing. It's a BSD thing, based on the premise that sudo does way too much.
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18:19*EmleyMoor will look into doas
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18:20<sney>doas certainly gained a lot of popularity during that sudo security freakout a few months back.
18:20<sney>,v doas
18:20<judd>Package: doas on amd64 -- bookworm: 6.8.1-2; bullseye: 6.8.1-2; sid: 6.8.1-2
18:20<sney>nice, it did make it in to bullseye.
18:21<Booda>does = OpenBSD
18:21<Booda>doas*
18:21<tjcarter>If you want doas to behave like sudo, "permit setenv { DISPLAY XAUTHORITY XAUTHORIZATION } :sudo" Although … there are problems with running GUI apps from doas OR sudo, so do so carefully, etc.
18:21<EmleyMoor>Only problem with bullseye is I keep expecting Jim Bowen to appear
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18:31<cc>is doas config file any saner than sudo one?
18:31<cc>because sudoers has one of the craziest file formats
18:32<cc>up there with exim
18:32<EmleyMoor>It's a fine format but because it doesn't support aliases (as far as I know) it could be a bit nuts to deal with
18:33<Booda>doas not allowing aliases basically means it doesnt support laziness
18:33<EmleyMoor>That figures, bearing in mind its OpenBSD origins
18:34<tjcarter>cc: That line above … is my entire doas config.
18:34<cc>based on the man page doas.conf does seem much simpler than sudoers
18:34<cc>which is a major improvement
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18:35<cc>like I can read the entire page and understand it all at once
18:35<cc>compared to man sudoers (good luck)
18:36<Booda>wasnt the point of doas to be cleaner code than sudo
18:36<tjcarter>one line, only as complex as it is only because I wanted GUI apps to be able to work as root
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18:45<jim>EmleyMoor, who is Jim Bowen?
18:47<Booda>!wiki Jim Bowen
18:47<Booda>:(
18:47<EmleyMoor>A comedian who also hosted a game show called "Bullseye" from 1981 to 1995
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19:19<spawacz>I've fucked up a config file for one program in /etc. How do i restore just that file without reinstalling the entire package?
19:23<crawler>download the package to a tmp directory, extract it using ar
19:24<sussudio>or use the sample config
19:24<sussudio>packagename.conf.dpkg-dist
19:25<crawler>where would that be suss?
19:25<spawacz>what is that .conf.dpkg-dst?
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19:25<spawacz>i've already downloaded the package and copied just the config file
19:25<spawacz>but what's the second method?
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19:26<sussudio>it should be in /etc too
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19:26<crawler>spawacz most packages (I am not sure if all) usually include their config files as config-file.conf.sample or config-file.conf.example
19:26<sussudio>there should be one in the man dir too.
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19:27<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... we have bigger PIDs now?
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19:28<sussudio>does it go all the way to 11?
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19:28<EmleyMoor>It's just, looking in logs, the PIDs seem to be well over a million
19:29<Tenkawa>192.168.1.130
19:29<Tenkawa>oops sorry
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19:40<jim>does bullseye install wayland?
19:41<mason>jim: You can choose whatever you like to install.
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19:41<jim>oh ok, I upgraded, I had xorg; not sure what I ended up with.
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19:49<sney>jim: wayland is default on buster+ desktop installs with gnome. everything else gets xorg
19:51<EmleyMoor>With doas, is there a way of saying "arguments must begin with..." or is it "exact arguments only if specified at all"?
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20:04<maher>if I want the point releases for bullseye do I still need a proposed updates line in sources.list?
20:05<LtL>maher: no
20:06<bentham>Nevertheless you can still have https://ftp.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib non-free
20:06<maher>LtL: so they will just turn up automatically in stable/bullseye?
20:06<LtL>maher: read the line from bentham
20:08<maher>Ltl, bentham: what is the difference between having that line and not having that line?
20:09<bentham>I believe that bullseye-updates is a replacement for 'volatile'
20:09<bentham>I don't think that is what you meant by 'point releases'.
20:10<crawler>Without that line, you won't be getting updates untill the next point release. With that line, you are continuously updated as soon as any updates show up.
20:10<LtL>!bullseye sources.list
20:10<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
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20:11<maher>Ltl, bentham, crawler: thanks! yes - I just want the point releases for stable when they hit the main dist, I don't want volatile...
20:11<crawler>I hope you are not confused
20:12<bentham>just be sure to get the bullseye-security updates
20:12<LtL>maher: you want those three lines from dpkg, ad contrib non-free to each if you are so inclined.
20:12<crawler>Without that line, at the moment of upgrading to the next point release, you will be upgrading a lot of packages. With that line, upgrades at the next point release will be minimum
20:12<LtL>*add
20:13<maher>crawler: I don't mind having the point releases come in large chunks
20:13<crawler>You will be missing bug fixes and new features tho
20:14<crawler>Please, read about stable-updates/bullseye-updates before finalizing that decision
20:15<maher>crawler: ok - but probably doesn't make much difference to me either way...
20:15<crawler>Happy debianing anyways :)
20:16<tjcarter>I might reluctantly disagree about the three sensible lines (I like having firmware files), but I I'd advise anyone who learns about "deb-multimedia" (which is not Debian) to ask dpkg about frankendebian.
20:16<bentham>!frankendebian
20:16<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian and <reinstall>
20:17<tjcarter>I said "ehh, I'm only installing a package or so to avoid having to build it myself, what can it hurt?"
20:17<tjcarter>I spent THREE HOURS removing it.
20:17<tjcarter>frankendebian is the reason why I encourage flatpak usage.
20:18<bentham>Heh, it's bad enough removing discontinued debian packages two releases later (I'm looking at you geoip-database-contrib)
20:18<tjcarter>flatpaks are not part of your Debian installation. They do not contaminate it and they are sandboxed away.
20:19<tjcarter>It's possible to add packages to Debian in a way that won't break it. And I do have a couple of outside packages. But they're very carefully curated by me, I know what they are, and I've been careful about them.
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20:20<maher>tjcarter: is that usual? I find that most .debs remove reasonably cleanly... I've also used systemd containers / lxc when I want to experiment...
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20:20<tjcarter>maher: deb-multimedia replaces just about every library that has anything do do with media playback recompiled with a f**king epoch increase to ensure that it will always be the latest version.
20:21<crawler>depends on who did the packaging
20:21<tjcarter>exactly.
20:21<bentham>tjcarter: that's really ugly
20:21<tjcarter>I have coapp installed (part of the VideoDownloadHelper browser extension)
20:21<tjcarter>That's well-behaved.
20:21<Hash>I am very careful of any browser extentions
20:22<Hash>After some few were known to steal bitcoins and other crypto if you were logged in.
20:22<Hash>And other security breaches. Paranoid.
20:22<Hash>If it's not in Debian, I probably don't use it.
20:22<tjcarter>I have voxin which is sort of supported by Debian … speech synthesizer voices for speech dispatcher. That's fairly isolated.
20:22<tha0g1>Thank you, Debian.
20:22<tjcarter>I've got Mint's Cinnamon themes which are … themes. :) They don't hurt much.
20:22<tjcarter>That's it.
20:22<maher>tjcarter: I use btrfs snapshots for daily backups, you can do hourly if your disks are fast enough, this makes rollbacks usually possible
20:23<Hash>Oh man, I need to do that. I need to back up data. I need disks. :)
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20:23<Hash>Thanks for the reminder.
20:23<tjcarter>maher: I have LUKS containers with LVMs in them. If btrfs and LVM cohabitated well, I would use it.
20:23<Hash>Also, how is btrfs compared to zfs now? is zfs in debian kernel now or userspace?
20:23<tjcarter>zfs remains userspace
20:23<Hash>ah
20:24<tjcarter>oracle = evil
20:24<Hash>Heh. Dork
20:24<EmleyMoor>Well, doas is not helpful with my problem but now I've sorted sudo I've also refined how it's called
20:24<Hash>hehe
20:24<Hash>I'm pretty sure openzfs is open and not related to oracle
20:24<tjcarter>EmleyMoor: doas doesn't do everything sudo does … but it does what it does very well.
20:25<tjcarter>Is openzfs in kernel yet though?
20:25<maher>tjcarter: you are right, lvm doesn't work nicely with btrfs - I just switched to having one giant luks lvm and only using the btrfs snapshots within that...
20:25<Hash>\o/ unsure
20:25<tjcarter>maher: I have 30TB online.
20:25<Hash>Whoah.
20:25<tjcarter>I really need a NAS.
20:25<tjcarter>I just keep shoving drives in my tower.
20:26<Hash>With btfs, why not. Don't have to do much of anything at that point. Well, add more ram and probably some space for fs logs and other temp stuff
20:26<Hash>Anyway, have a good one
20:26<maher>tjcarter: btrfs has inbuilt sw raid which I use for my multiple disks - but you might want to read about that more carefully before deciding if it meets your needs...
20:27<tjcarter>I know btrfs can span drives, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that either given the problem facing me when I installed sid about two weeks ago
20:27<tjcarter>(applies to bullseye by virtue of the installer was the last bullseye RC)
20:27<maher>tjcarter: i haven't had a btrfs fs die for a couple of years now, but I'm also careful not to fill them...
20:27<crawler>and after the NAS.. a 10Gbps switch.. then rewiring.. then new board for NICs.. then and then.. life is ahssumm
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20:28<tjcarter>I had a setup that was pretty common for an older version of Debian: LUKS containers with LVM in them
20:28<Hash>Then you'll really be 'crawlin'', eh crawler
20:29<crawler>lol
20:29<tjcarter>Thing is with 30TB online, ideally what I wanted to do was keep /home, /srv, etc where they were (partitions in the LVM) and just reinstall / and clean up fstab later, right?
20:30<tjcarter>I could not figure out how to do that with Calamares and the old debian-installer … if you can open the LUKS containers before the partitioner, it could do it, but you don't have cryptsetup to open the LUKS containers.
20:31<tjcarter>Ultimately I took the debian live bullseye RC and installed debootstrap and installed by hand. I bypassed bullseye since I was going to anyway, but … what is this, arch? 😆
20:31<tjcarter>(yeah, pretty much. It worked though, obviously.)
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20:33<tjcarter>I do _not_ recommend this. But I'd have been less sure of myself doing it with btrfs. I could do crazy shtuff like that with LUKS and LVM all day long if I really had to because it's a familiar interface.
20:33<maher>tjcarter: if it works then why change it - I got addicted to the cow snapshots...
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20:40<tjcarter>I like it and would like to use it. I also like that my / and /home (which share a LVM container) could both effectively use all remaining free space using btrfs …
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20:42<tjcarter>I don't think the migration TO btrfs works to combine two filesystems scattered across a pair of LVM pv's is terribly automated
20:42<tjcarter>moving about 3TB of data takes more than a couple of minutes
20:43<maher>tjcarter: I would do that manually even if there is some tool that claims to be able to do that...
20:43<tjcarter>all that debootstrap fun was about avoiding the time it'd take to restore 3TB of backup data.
20:44<tjcarter>it would depend somewhat to me how it was being done.
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20:45<tjcarter>I can actually imagine how a tool could do it.
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20:49<tjcarter>First you'd need to shrink some ext4 filesystem by a couple of LVM blocks. You'd then move some blocks to make room for btrfs filesystem metadata with the existing LVM filesystems as files on the btrfs volume. Up until the btrfs metadata replaces the LVM signature completely, your data is still on LVM and in the partitions. The ext4 shrink is quite stable at this point.
20:50<sney>btrfs-convert itself was little more than "click here to destroy your data" for a while and was even removed from the debian package for a bit
20:50<tjcarter>true, but those days are now quite past us.
20:50<sney>I'm not sure if it was restored or if there's just a shell script with 'exit 0' there now
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21:00<bentham>I'm still not sure I understand what btrfs provides that ext4 does not.
21:00<bentham>Seems like a niche product to me.
21:02<sney>my best understanding is that it's like zfs but worse
21:02<sney>in that it's not just a filesystem, it also does volume management and parity functions and snapshots and so on
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21:04<sney>so if you were using ext4 on lvm with encryption, you could switch to zfs which does all 3 of those things. or you could switch to btrfs, which does at least 2 of them
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21:04<bentham>In my view that would make it even worse; we have other tools to do those other things.
21:05<bentham>I mean, a monolithic system is more brittle and vulnerable to holdup.
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21:05<bentham>Better to have a system of modular components, each of which does a single job well.
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21:06<sney>I consider zfs reliable in those use cases and so do enterprises much bigger than me. I can see why btrfs would want to copy them
21:06<bentham>Why not copy them in a modular way?
21:06<sney>and having something like that native in linux (eventually) would be nice - having modular specificity is a good option to have, but sometimes you also just want something that's ready to go
21:07<bentham>You can have both: a modular installation with easy-to-assemble (or even pre-assembled) modules.
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21:08<sney>I'm not philosophically for or against the modular or monolithic approaches, so you won't get me to disagree with you on that, but I also see the technology that already exists and I can see what btrfs upstream is trying to do
21:09<sney>and it seems like a good option to have available for different people who are doing different things with their computers
21:09<sney>if they ever fix the raid5 parity issues, anyway.
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21:11<UgarteEmanuel>hola?
21:11<@bremner>!es
21:11<sney>hi
21:11<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/
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21:11<UgarteEmanuel>que es esto?
21:12<sney>!new2irc
21:12<dpkg>You are chatting on IRC. IRC is the original group chat. Similar to platforms like Slack, Matrix, or Discord, IRC was invented in the 1980s and formalized with RFC 1459 in 1993. This channel, #debian, is for help with the debian operating system. Ask us a debian support question, or read more about IRC at https://netsplit.de or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC
21:12<UgarteEmanuel>eres un bot?
21:12<sney>dpkg es un bot, yo no, debes hablar ingles aqui
21:12<dpkg>un bot, yo no, debes hablar ingles aqui: Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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21:13<sney>oh, I see what I did.
21:13<sney>dpkg: shush
21:13<dpkg>Fine, I'll shut up.
21:13<UgarteEmanuel>jaja esta bien disculpa, solo veia que aplicaciones podia borrar que no me sirvan en esta distro pero ya que menciona el soporte mejor lodejo
21:14<@bremner>well, not sure how many times we can say english please?
21:14<sney>vale, pero use ingles aqui, we really don't speak much spanish here
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21:32<tuxd3v>hello guys
21:32<tuxd3v>I want to configure a nfs client in debian 11
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21:32<tuxd3v>shall I continue to use '/etc/fstab' to mount the share?
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21:35<BenNZ>tuxd3v: personally i dont use fstab to mount network shares
21:35<tjcarter>the possibility that they don't come up with the machine?
21:36<BenNZ>it relies on the network being up at the right time
21:36<sney>using a systemd .mount means you can tell it not to attempt mounting the network share until dependencies are met, yeah
21:38<tuxd3v>but you can also use a _netdev mount option in fstab which will do the same
21:38<tuxd3v>however I am trying to learn systemd, since 1 day ago :)
21:38<sney>right, they get interpreted the same by systemd anyway
21:38<sney>the .mount units have the advantage of being slightly more readable
21:38<tuxd3v>and I would like to learn how to create a mount unit file :)
21:39<sney>https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-mount.html
21:39<sney>and I have one that looks like this https://paste.debian.net/1208635/
21:40<tuxd3v>many thanks to all :)
21:41<tuxd3v>sney, I am looking to improve your mout unit :)
21:41<sney>it's pretty minimal, it's just for traffic between 2 VMs on the same hypervisor. there's lots of room for more options
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21:42<tuxd3v>After=network.target networking.service rpcbind.service nfs-client.target
21:42<sney>do whatever you need for your own situation, this works fine for me
21:42<tuxd3v>don´ t know if this extra 2 make sense since, they are wanted by multi-user.target
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21:46<tuxd3v>I am just trying to learn systemd :)
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21:46<tuxd3v>well the nfs mount point its for my own required usage :)
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21:47<urk>Just went through the motions of updating to bullseye, and the following url shows an error message. The error indicates I can't update securely from the release file, and therefore it is being deactivated. Any thoughts on what is the problem? The following url is my sources.list http://paste.debian.net/1208638/
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21:47<urk>I am at the point to where I am ready to reboot. So I am going to reboot, and will return in a couple of minutes.
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21:47<@bremner>!next
21:47<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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21:55<urk>I am back. Just rebooted, and lost my start menu which seems to be a XFCE issue. Also, the firmware for the wireless didn't take, and that error was on bootup.
21:55<urk>I am running update, and upgrade again, and hopefully that should help.
21:55<@bremner>urk: you could start by actually posting the url to the error
21:56<@bremner>and maybe slow down; last time you rebooted before anyone could even answer
21:57<urk>bremner: I failed to take a snapshot of the screen after bootup, but had lost my start menu so the snapshot tool wasn't real visible. However, earlier I did post some errors on paste.debian.net, and posted it my messages within the last 15 minutes. I get an error that I can't update the security files in Bullseye.
21:58<dvs>urk: read the release notes
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22:03<tjcarter>urk: suggest elbows on the table with a phone in hand to get a video of the screen as it boots
22:03<urk>tjcarter: Just reran full-upgrade, and a bunch of stuff is still getting updated so I may have posted in this channel prematurely.
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22:04<urk>tjcarter: I ran that command earlier but apparetly more stuff is getting picked up.
22:04<tjcarter>bremner's advice may hold. Take it slow and let things finish.
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22:09<tuxd3v>sney, I am using your mount unit file as a orientation..
22:09<tuxd3v>I am geting this:
22:09<tuxd3v>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/c04a572a/
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22:10<sney>tuxd3v: it is what it sounds like, the unit needs to match the mount point. so for me it's mnt-nas because it's mounted at /mnt/nas
22:10<sney>for you it'd be home-tuxd3v-Desktop-DATA.mount
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22:11<tuxd3v>ho....
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22:11<tuxd3v>does you need to match the name of the unit with the where= sentence?
22:12<tuxd3v>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/e3d15a54/
22:12<sney>yes, where= is the mount point
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22:13<tuxd3v>this systemd, has a lot of tricky things :)
22:13<tuxd3v>nice to know :)
22:13<tuxd3v>many thanks will try that :)
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22:15<urk>I have completed updating, and still don't have a start menu, nor do I have wireless functionality as of yet. I looked at some notes from awhile back on how to restore the start menu in XFCE, and find the following command "mv ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.bak"
22:15-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:15<tuxd3v>sney, yup after changing the unit name to reflect a name close to Were=, its working :)
22:15<urk>I assume the backup is performed before restarting "x"
22:15<sney>tuxd3v: it's in one of those man pages I'm sure
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22:16<sney>urk: yes, ideally you would back up your settings when you are not logged in to xfce
22:17<urk>I still don't have wireless connectivity, but will run a command to get the error messages from bootup. There were not any more than what I had with Buster, and everything works except the wireless connectivity, and a few minor glitches with XFCE.
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22:21<urk>I still get an error message when updating http://paste.debian.net/1208645/
22:21<urk>My sources.list file is listed at http://paste.debian.net/1208646/
22:21<urk>What can I do to pick up the security updates?
22:21<urk>Is there anything that should be changed in the sources.list?
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22:22<dvs>...
22:22<tuxd3v>sney, you right it is.. in manpage systemd.mount
22:22<tuxd3v>Mount units must be named after the mount point directories they control. Example: the mount point /home/lennart
22:22<tuxd3v> must be configured in a unit file home-lennart.mount.
22:22<sney>urk: you have a typo, as apt update is trying to tell you
22:22<dvs>!bullseye security
22:22<dpkg>The syntax for the <security> line changed in bullseye. Now it is: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main". See <sources.list> <bullseye/updates>
22:25<urk>Thanks. Trying to correct it, but now have to fix the "readonly" option is set, but I don't need help with that.
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22:25<urk>I need to take a break, and will return in an hour.
22:25<urk>I don't like the dark desktop background in Bullseye, and will likely change it. Its hard on the eyes unless you are looking at the screen at night.
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22:27<tuxd3v>sney, but it states:
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22:27<tuxd3v>In general, configuring mount points through /etc/fstab is the preferred approach. See
22:27<tuxd3v> systemd-fstab-generator(8) for details about the conversion.
22:28<sney>tuxd3v: the "preferred" recommendation changes from year to year. pick an approach that works for you and stick with it; I find .mount units are more readable, so that's my choice
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22:30<tuxd3v>sney, still there are "something in the water"..
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22:31<tuxd3v>it now has four .mount units :/
22:31<tuxd3v>the other two:
22:31<tuxd3v>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/1af25c33/
22:32<sney>which is why I said "pick an approach that works for you and stick with it" - if you combine both, weird things will happen
22:32<tuxd3v>sney, in this case its my fault :(
22:32<sney>all part of that learning process
22:33<tuxd3v>I made the query in the nfs server
22:33<tuxd3v>sorry for that :)
22:33<tuxd3v>yeah, its part of the process :)
22:33-!-nuc [~nuc@200116b82af0bb00f61155b020aa0aea.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:33-!-tha0g1 [~tha0g1@201.46.17.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:33<tuxd3v>and I am loving learning this "new" stuff :)
22:34<tuxd3v>many thanks for your help! :)
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22:34<sney>np
22:35<sney>people who screw up, go "oops" and figure it out and fix it, are the next generation's *nix experts
22:35<sney>it's where we all came from
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22:46-!-JPT is "Jan Philipp Timme" on #debian
22:46<dvs>speak for yourself! ;-P
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22:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 977] by debhelper
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23:10-!-seeS is "Craig" on #debian
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23:12-!-quarkyalice is "realname" on #linux-msm #lain #quarky #debian-offtopic #kernelnewbies #debian #alpine-offtopic #alpine-docs #alpine-devel #alpine-linux #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-dev #asahi #postmarketos-lowlevel #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-porting #postmarketos-mainline #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos
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23:19-!-quarkyalice is "realname" on #linux-msm #lain #quarky #debian-offtopic #kernelnewbies #debian #alpine-offtopic #alpine-docs #alpine-devel #alpine-linux #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-dev #asahi #postmarketos-lowlevel #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-porting #postmarketos-mainline #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos
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23:37-!-seeS is "Craig" on #debian
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23:42-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian
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23:49-!-richard_h is "purple" on #debian
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 23 00:00:06 2021