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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-23

---Logopened Mon Aug 23 00:00:06 2021
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01:09<urk>Got problems shutting off readonly in VIM. I know this isn't a Debian issue, but haven't had a problem doing this before until after the upgrade to Bullseye. I tried using :w !sudo tee % and it didn't work, but has always worked in the past. My output after this is http://paste.debian.net/1208655/
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01:23<urk>I think something may have gone wrong with Vim and Debian Bullseye. I removed an error from my sources.list file, but the latest updates suggest the edit didn't commit.
01:27<urk>I fixed the problem; never mind
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01:30<tjcarter>behold! The problem-solving power of #debian.
01:33<bittin>heh
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01:36<tjcarter>bittin: I used to keep a file full of such cleverness. It's packaged. Quite antiquated nowadays, and a couple items have been scrubbed from it over the years thankfully because they were in poor taste in retrospect.
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01:41<urk>well still up, I ran an upgrade after fixing the spelling error in the sources.list, but it is hanging. The last line says Reading changelogs . . . Done, and it didn't return me to the command line.
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01:47<urk>Well the upgrade hangs, and stops at "reading changelogs" after displaying the release notes. I show 675 not upgraded, and this is after I fixed the error in the security lines of sources.list.
01:47<urk>I don't get any errors when running update. This is my sources.list http://paste.debian.net/1208658/
01:47<urk>Does my sources.list look ok?
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01:49<tjcarter>looks fine to me
01:52<urk>tjcarter: The upgrade won't complete. After fixing the security lines, an additional 675 packages showed up, and it hangs on the reading changelogs line. I let it sit a long time, and nothing happened. Whats the next step? I do need some sleep so feel free to memoserve me.
01:52<tjcarter>How long is long?
01:52<urk>I do not get any errors after running update, but full dist-upgrade has problems
01:53<urk>tjcarter: I let it sit 30 minutes. Should I let it sit overnight?
01:53<tjcarter>not unless you're actually running on a 586.
01:53<urk>Also, the release notes appears before the upgrade completes so something is wrong with the routine.
01:53<themill>what's the exact command and what's the exact output?
01:53<urk>tjcarter: I am running a 2019 Dell XPS with an Intel 9 processor, and 32 gb of ram memory with a 1 TB solid state drive.
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01:54<tjcarter>I'd suggest using aptitude to make some upgrades a few at a time
01:54<urk>themill: I will take a snapshot, and upload it for you. Please standby.
01:54<tjcarter>but then I run sid, that's usually a good idea anyway.
01:55<urk>So here is the first screen http://paste.debian.net/1208659/
01:56<themill>Nothing there is a problem
01:56<themill>(also, do an 'upgrade' prior to a 'full-upgrade')
01:57<urk>I forgot. I won't be able to take a snapshot because my start utility in XFCE was lost during the upgrade, but I can type what is on my screen. Ok, after completing 78% in the change logs, the release notes were released before the upgrade was complete. The upgrade hasn't actually happened, so something is wrong because the release notes shouldn't show up until the upgrade is complete.
01:58<urk>this time it worked so I assume it was some type of seating error.
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01:58<urk>Ok, now I am stuck at 5% progress #######,,,,,,,,,,,,, and get the following error.
01:59<urk>One or more running instances of xscreensaver or xlockmore have been detected on this system. Because of incompatible library changes, the upgrade of the GNU C library will leave you unable to authenticate to these programs. You should arrange for these programs to be restarted or stopped before continuing this upgrade to avoid locking your users out of their current sessions.
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02:00<urk>I None of my graphic tools work, and XFCE interface is toasted. I am going to continue working on this tomorrow.
02:00<themill>that's not an error
02:00*enyc meows
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02:02<bittin>meow
02:04<tjcarter>woof (am I doin it rite?)
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02:05<tjcarter>I'm not sure urk really understands … something. I'm just not sure what so we can explain it to them.
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02:40<tjcarter>Does anyone happen to know offhand of a good reverse to fmt?
02:42<tjcarter>Maybe I should start at the beginning a bit. I have a script that will take the X selection buffer and pipe it into speech-dispatcher via spd-say. The problem is that speech-dispatcher (or spd-say?) treats each paragraph like a separate object to be spoken.
02:43<tjcarter>The problem comes up when I select paragraphs 1, 2, and 3 and send them off to be read aloud, then select paragraphs 4 and 5 and do the same
02:43<tjcarter>if I am still hearing paragraph 1 at the time I tell it to add 4 and 5, the order of the spoken items will be 1, 4, 5, 2, 3
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02:45<tjcarter>More obnoxiously, if you bind a key to spd-say -S or spd-say -C … you will not end all speech, only the current object.
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02:50<tjcarter>I'm trying to get something closer to my speak-selection keystroke always appending a queue and, if possible, stop-speaking to make it shut up. My best thought of how to approximate this would be to replace blank lines with a speech command essentially forcing the speech to pause as for a new paragraph, then remove all newlines so 1, 2, 3 will be treated as a single object, and 4, 5
02:50<tjcarter>likewise. It's not perfect, but short of writing half a screen reader it's the best I've got.
02:51<tjcarter>I haven't set that up on this install yet, and figured I might have a go at improving what I've been using since it's not very user friendly at the moment.
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03:35<multigestern>Hello, i have a bullseye server running and are not able to use it as host in my ansible-playbook due to python3-apt missing. But it is installed. Where there some changes to the package itself since buster?
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03:44<shanhai>.....
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03:45<shanhai>....
03:46<shanhai>hello
03:46<bittin>hey
03:47<jochum>hi
03:48<sawcon>h
03:49<shanhai>The first time I used this thing, it was amazing
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03:51<shanhai>I'm sure all of you here are big guns
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03:57<jochum>shanhai: we all have been new user once up on a time to.
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04:00<shanhai>Now I'm just starting out in the industry, and it's full of doubts and questions
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04:13<alex11>does gnu screen show up in ps -e?
04:13<alex11>trying to find an old session i may or may not have
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04:15<alex11>well i tried with -r and -R and i guess i don't have any
04:17<alex11>also i could've validated that myself by starting a new screen session
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04:17<alex11>sorry for stupidity and laziness
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04:22<jm_>alex11: screen also has '-ls' option
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04:30<grove>I would probablu use the long form -list, but I would also prefer that, but screen is a process like any other so yes, it does show up in ps output
04:31<grove>s/lu/ly/
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04:34<StyXman_>my saned can't access usb, and I can't find anthing in the wiki. I can't ven find where the devices are in the FS, to check what perms it needs. any hints?
04:35<StyXman_>ah, strace told me, but they're all owned by root. do I need to setup udev rules there?
04:36<jm_>looks like wiki has useful notes: https://wiki.debian.org/Scanner#Permissions
04:37<StyXman_>ah, there
04:37<StyXman_>tx
04:37<StyXman_>I was reading https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Network_Scanner_Configurations
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04:50<StyXman_>jm_: tx a lot
04:50<Multigestern>Hello, I'm trying to run ansible on a bullseye server and it won't install any packages due to missing python3-apt. But it is installed. So i was wandering if something else is wrong or has changed since buster
04:51<jm_>StyXman_: np
04:51<jm_>!bat
04:51<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
04:54<depesz>hi. on my desktop, which runs sid, I lost pulseaudio. when I try to install it, I get: "libavresample4 : Depends: libavutil56 (= 7:4.3.2-0+deb11u2) but 7:4.4-5 is to be installed". I tried to apt-get source libavresample4 and build it (ffmpeg), but after build there is no libavresample4 deb ...
04:54<depesz>what can I do to fix my pulseaudio?
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04:54<tjcarter>depesz: that's a question for #debian-next FWIW.
04:55<tjcarter>depesz: the solution was the new libasound2-plugins which just dropped on deb.debian.org
04:55<depesz>thanks
04:55<tjcarter>this channel doesn't really mess with sid
04:56<depesz>didn't know about -next. now I do :)
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04:57<StyXman_>depesz: unstable should be quite... well, unstable, these days, as the release flood gates have been open. I recommend being patient :-]
04:57*tjcarter fwops maintainer of debianutils with a pool noodle
04:57<jm_>speaking about PA, will debian also migrate to pipewire?
04:57<tjcarter>jm_: bullseye already installs it
04:58<tjcarter>jm_: it doesn't replace pulseaudio yet
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04:59<tjcarter>There's a package you could install to do that but it's "experimental" in bullseye
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05:00<jm_>i'll probably wait then, thanks for the info
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05:00*tjcarter duct tapes judd to channel
05:01<tjcarter>Yeah, on sid you'll probably see pushes to replace pulseaudio sooner or later
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05:02<tjcarter>But … sid's definitely a hard hat area right now. 😮 Folks who aren't comfortable dealing with breaks as they happen miiiiight want to NOT run it right now.
05:03<vv221>tjcarter, this is my favourite kind of Sid, changes everywhere \o/
05:03<jm_>I had testing on this box when buster was stable, but then work from home happened so I rather have less changes to deal with
05:03<jelly>,i libc6
05:03<judd>Package libc6 (libs, optional) in bullseye/amd64: GNU C Library: Shared libraries. Version: 2.31-13; Size: 2745.3k; Installed: 12772k; Homepage: https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/libc.html
05:03<tjcarter>"whip me, beat me, make me run apt-get upgrade"?
05:05<vv221>Coffee + apt upgrade is the core of my morning routine ;)
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05:05<StyXman_>ah, the old times...
05:06<tjcarter>I've been running updates a little more often than once a day lately, but I've been rebooting just about daily.
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05:08<tjcarter>speaking of which…
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05:18<tjcarter>I could've sworn I fixed that … I still get a scary warning that my NVMe drives are failing every time I reboot… They're not. There's an extra (harmless) log entry in each NVMe stick's equivalent of SMART data basically talking about the drive's temperature being quite within normal range.
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05:22<live>h
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05:23<jm_>tjcarter: as in kernel message or something else?
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05:24<jm_>hah after you said that I realized I can add my nvme to smartd :)
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05:25<jm_>ahh no need to, DEVICESCAN already finds it
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05:27<jm_>for some reason it does not log attriubtes though
05:29<FLD>i've noticed using NVMe on my Haswell machine makes the "Unsafe Shutdowns" counter increment almost every reboot
05:31<FLD>i suppose the platform is just too old to understand not to abruptly cut power to a pci-e storage device during early boot
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06:37<elbrus>does anybody here know where freedombox stores which release it's supposed to be running?
06:37*elbrus upgraded his freedombox a while ago to bullseye, but the apt sources are being rewriten to buster all the time
06:37<elbrus>s/rewriten/rewritten/
06:38*elbrus guesses in a database and that one has to use the web interface, but I nuked the apache config to get to that interface and just updated the apt sources manually
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06:42<Myself1024>Hi I'm having issues with Debian 11 (running on VMWare). I am not able to play any RTSP stream in VLC, for example the test stream `rtsp://wowzaec2demo.streamlock.net/vod/mp4:BigBuckBunny_115k.mov` or any other stream (including some coming from localhost, so it's not a firewall issue). Those streams plays perfectly using ffplay in the same VM, but they fail with VLC. Any hint?
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06:44<elbrus>VLC is unable to open the MRL 'rtsp://wowzaec2demo.streamlock.net/vod/mp4:BigBuckBunny_115k.mov'. Check the log for details.
06:44<elbrus>that's what you're seeing?
06:44<elbrus>that's at least what I see
06:46<Myself1024>@elbrus: correct. And the logs contain non-helpful messages. That RTSP stream uses MJPEG, but I have issues with another stream that uses H264. On my laptop (macOS) those streams play just fine, both the wowza test stream and the one that is generated within the Debian VM
06:47<Myself1024>I am fairly sure this is an issue with VLC on Debian 11. It works on Debian 10. It works on macOS. It also works on ffplay inside Debian 11. Sadly, I absolutely have to use VLC (I'm developing an app that is based on libvlc)
06:49<elbrus>maybe https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=982299
06:49<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/982299 in vlc (open): «Fwd: RTSP streams are not displayed with version 3.0.12 on Debian Sid»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-02-08; last modified: 2021-02-12.
06:50<Myself1024>Also using the "videos" app (which I believe is built on gstreamer) works
06:50<Sebastinas>We had to disable RTSP support in vlc due to license issues.
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06:51<Myself1024>Sebastinas: got it. Is there a worakaround? I have a dependency on that
06:51<Sebastinas>Others are not affected because they do not use liblivemedia
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06:52<Myself1024>I see liblivemedia is available on buster but not bullseye. no workaround?
06:53<jm_>apparently not
06:54<Myself1024>Downgrading to Buster I assume :) as long as it's supported...
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06:55<vv221[BI]>Myself1024, downgrading is not supported ;) But it still can be done if you have a bit of experience with apt_preferences and apt/dpkg breakages.
06:56<Myself1024>vv221[BI]: I meant downgrading the entire system, sticking to Buster. Which will be supported for a few more years at least
06:56<vv221[BI]>(I'm talking about full system downgrading from stable to stable-1, downgrading a single package is much easier)
06:57<Myself1024>(and with downgrading, I meant just re-installing the OS - since this is a dev vm)
06:57<vv221[BI]>Oh, I assumed you were writing about the downgrading process itself being supported.
06:57<vv221[BI]>So you're right, Buster is still supported for a little while ;)
06:57<Myself1024>vv221[BI]: no sorry I was referring to the OS support policy
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06:58<vv221[BI]>Don't worry, I'm probably the only one who has misunderstood your messages, regular people (a.k.a. less crazy than me) do not tend to donwgrade systems using apt.
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07:11<Myself1024>Thanks all for the help. I spent wayyyy too many hours trying to debug this, you solved my issue in 5 mins (should have asked here earlier :) ). Sad the only solution is to re-install Debian 10, but at least now I know what I can do to make it work
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07:36<Sebastinas>Myself1024: You can probably build the liblivemedia/live555 plugin on your own - but please check liblivemedia's license carefully if it suites your needs.
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08:40<cc>I have noticed that vim on 11 does not seem to recognize nginx config files, so no syntax highlighting (with 'syntax on')
08:40<cc>is this intentional?
08:41<cc>or maybe I am missing a package?
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08:44<cc>the file /usr/share/vim/addons/syntax/nginx.vim from pacakge nginx-common is present but apparently it's not being used?
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08:47<cc>only the comments are highlighted currently; if I do :set syntax=nginx, even the comments become un-highlighted
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08:49<jm_>what if you use setfiletype?
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08:59<jm_>there are two parts to this in vim, syntax file and the mechanism to enable it, the latter can be done using ~/.vim/filetype.vim if it's somehow missing, but it would be good to know how it worked before
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09:00<cc>as far as I can see, :setfiletype nginx does nothing
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09:02<jm_>sadly I don't have anything with nginx to test it ;)
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09:12<jm_>ahh I see now, it also ships with ftdetect part
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09:14<cc>it is kind of sad
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09:15<cc>I am migrating a nginx config from another linux distribution to debian
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09:15<cc>and in that other OS I have the config open vim with default vimrc and it has pretty syntax highlight
09:16<cc>while on debian it does not seem to work out of the box and I cannot figure out how to even force it
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09:17<bcdev>hi
09:17<cc>hi
09:17<cc>!ask
09:17<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
09:19<bcdev>bye
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09:19<Booda>lol
09:19<cc>lol
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09:19<jm_>cc: vam install nginx
09:20<cc>-bash: vam: command not found
09:20<cc>I guess I need vim-addon-manager first?
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09:21<jm_>yes
09:21<cc>let's try this
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09:21<cc>yep, now it works
09:22<cc>thanks jm_
09:22<jm_>np
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09:24<myoxo>Hi, I'm trying to upgrade for buster to bullseye, and the hard disk was almost full. Stuff stopped. Now, / is *completely* full and I'm stuck in a kinda catch-22: All apt-commands which can liberate space return a "E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem."
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09:24<myoxo>- but that command yields a "dpkg: error: failed to write status database record about 'adwaita-icon-theme' to '/var/lib/dpkg/status': No space left on device". I've tried to manually remove som dated logs from /var/log and so on, but so far to no avail. Might the database dpkg refers to itself be broken?
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09:26<Booda>myoxo: sudo du -sh /var/cache/apt
09:29<myoxo>17G
09:29<myoxo>can that be removed?
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09:30<myoxo>that would be more than enough.
09:30<vv221[BI]>myoxo, preferably with `apt autoclean`
09:30<vv221[BI]>Not with a direct `rm`.
09:30<Booda>sudo apt autoclean && sudo apt autoremove
09:31<vv221[BI]>Actually, I don't remember if autoclean works when there is 0 space left…
09:31<myoxo>those commands does not work, because I must first run dpkg --configure -a.
09:31<myoxo>but that command won't work because of disk space issues
09:32<myoxo>but I see the archive folder in vat/cache/apt/ is full of stuff from 2018 and yo
09:32<cc>autoclean should work I think
09:32<crawler>try to remove the biggest files first from /var/cache/apt, avoid removing all of them
09:32<crawler>it will save some bandwidth
09:32<vv221[BI]>(from /var/cache/apt/archives)
09:33<myoxo>apt autpcløean does not work
09:33<myoxo>I'm trying to manyally remove some files from said archove now
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09:34-!-mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift
09:35<cc>seems like apt itself (or autoclean module) could use an improvement to be able to fix this kind of situation, because this ise not optimal
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09:36<Booda>thank god for open source then
09:36<vv221>I guess the rationale beyond the lack of such improvement is that the energy would be better used in trying to avoid such situations in the first place ;)
09:36<myoxo>vv221[BI]: yeah, no argument there!
09:36<vv221>I think there is already an early abort if there is not enough disk space to download the packages.
09:37<myoxo>learning the hard way is best way. except when dealing with explosives
09:37<vv221>But such issues can still trigger if the disk space is not enough to include both the downloaded packages *and* the extra size from the installation of the new packages.
09:37<vv221>The second one seems to be much more tricky to check for.
09:37<cc>I see no reason why autoclean should not work under 0 free space conditions
09:38<vv221>cc, I don’t either, and it actually might work. But here I think it is apt itself that can not work with an inconsistent dpkg database.
09:38<vv221>(so since apt does not work, autoclean can not be called)
09:39<vv221>Keeping in mind that I am not an apt dev, so I might miss obvious issues here ;)
09:39<myoxo>cc: autoclean demands that I run dpkg --configure -a *first*. And *that* command wants space
09:39<cc>yeah, that's a weird demand
09:39<Booda>empty trash bin, remove some files u never read
09:39<myoxo>I have a trash can?
09:40<vv221>« Hey, what are these big files under /boot? I guess I do not need them… »
09:40<vv221>(please don’t do that ;P)
09:40<myoxo>It's only the root partition which is full anyway. /boot and /home are separate partitions
09:40<myoxo>they are not full anyways
09:40<Booda>i like running my OS on an SSD and store files on a HDD
09:41<myoxo>ooo, found remnants of lenny in sources.list
09:41<myoxo>been a while since I did a complete reinstall I think
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09:43<myoxo>is there a simple way to remove all files from, say, 2019 and older?
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09:44<cc>that sounds like it will not go well
09:45<vv221>With find, something like `find /some/path -atime number-of-days-since-last-access`
09:45<myoxo>OK? I'm not talking system wide, but stuff in /var/cache/apt/archve
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09:46<cc>realistically you only need to delete maybe 100MB of .deb files from /var/cache/apt/archives
09:46<abrotman>myoxo: apt-get clean (i'm sure apt clean works also)
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09:46<myoxo>IT DID!
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09:46<vv221>abrotman, apt does not work in the current system status ;)
09:46<myoxo>THANK YOU!
09:46<vv221>Due to a dpkg interruption, itself due to running of disk space.
09:47<abrotman>that wasn't for you ?
09:47<vv221>I’m answering for myoxo ;P
09:47<cc>it looks like apt-get is still more robust than apt in this case
09:47<tepozoa>cc: I'm 99.9% sure that the vim defaults are broken
09:47<myoxo>Well, now. So, apt, aptitude and apt-get. Pick one, and if it doesn't work, try another?
09:48<abrotman>ah, aptitude has a 'clean'
09:48<tepozoa>if you look at ":set runtimepath?" you will notice (at least on my machine) that /usr/share/vim/addons is missing, so it's skipping all the files - I even installed vim-haproxy and it fails too
09:48<cc>tepozoa: the vam install command fixed my problem
09:48<tepozoa>I don't know what that means
09:48<tepozoa>the problem is actually a bug
09:49<cc>I installed vim-addon-manager and ran `vam install nginx`
09:49<cc>I am not sure as to *why* I needed to create a copy of the syntax plugin file under ~/.vim but at least it works
09:50<cc>you may be right that the default runtime path is broken
09:50<tepozoa>https://paste.debian.net/1208698/ <- I took the default, injected usr/share/vim/addons and both nginx and haproxy start working
09:51<tepozoa>I notice that /var/lib/vim/addons appears to be duplicated in the default
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09:51<cc>yeah, I see that too
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09:52<cc> /usr/share/vim/vimfiles is present but not /usr/share/vim/addons to where nginx-common installs its vimfile
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09:53<cc>tepozoa: where do you see that /var/lib/vim/addons is duplicated in the default?
09:53<tepozoa>as well as haproxy when you install vim-haproxy
09:53<cc>in my vim /var/lib/vim/addons is not mentioned in defaults
09:53<tepozoa>(I may have been wong on that, line wrapping)
09:53<Sebastinas>This is working as designed. vim plugins drop theire files in specific directory and then you can later enable them per-user / system-wide via vim-addon-manager.
09:54<Sebastinas>This is from a time before vim got a plugin manager itself.
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09:54<cc>I think it's a reasonable expectation to expect it to work out of the box
09:54<cc>I've never heard of vim-addon-manager before today
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09:55<tepozoa>I would concur
09:55<Sebastinas>vam never got any traction outside Debian (IIRC)
09:55<Sebastinas>It's slowly being replaced with vim's internal plugin manager.
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10:01<tepozoa>cc: regardless of history, two intelligent people just spent 30 minutes wondering "why the fuck doesn't this work?" - not having this path in $runtimepath feels like a usability bug and it's not in the best interests of people who don't know anything about this mess
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10:03<cc>Adding /usr/share/vim/addons to default runtimepath does seem like an easy and obvious solution. I wonder what the vim package maintainer will think about this.
10:03<cc>or maybe they can provide an insight as to why this cannot or should not be done
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10:05<cc>on another note, /usr/share/vim/vimfiles *is* present in defaults, but there is no such directory
10:05<cc>so it looks like an oversight more and more to me
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10:05*tepozoa nods - apologies, 9am work zoom have to disappear
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10:08<Sebastinas>Also with packadd! you will have to manually enable plugins in your .vimrc. Not every user on a shared system might want to enable all of those that are installed.
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10:11<cc>Sebastinas: what you describe is a usability nightmare for zero gain
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10:13<Sebastinas>cc: That's how every plugin manager for vim works.
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10:15<cc>Sebastinas: if root has installed nginx on the system, root's vim should be able to highlight nginx config files with zero additional configurations
10:15<cc>does this seem unreasonable to you?
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10:16<bremner>yes, because I'm an emacs user
10:17<bremner>and I maintain multi-user systems
10:17<cc>this does not affect emacs in any way
10:17<Sebastinas>Even one a single user system I don't want that.
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10:18<bremner>I guess it depends how intrusive vim plugins are. certainly some emacs plugins I don't want enabled for every user
10:18<Sebastinas>In a C project I want vim-youcompleteme enabled, but for reasonably large latex file that plugin is a hot mess.
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10:18<cc>Sebastinas: ok, if you disagree with the above basic idea, then we will just have agree to disagree
10:18<cc>I have nothing more to add
10:18<bremner>in any case, it seems like there's not much this channel can do to help
10:19<bremner>you should discuss with the maintainer if you want to follow up
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12:32<alex11>just out of sheer historical interest does anyone know the first time debian was designed to be smoothly upgradeable from prior releases? or was it always like that
12:32<alex11>was it ever at a point where it was like, "you should fresh install"
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12:34<crawler>I am using Debian since woody, the upgrade path was always smooth since that release. I don't know about releases before that
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12:38<sney>maybe versions 2.0 and older, since apt wasn't introduced until 2.1
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12:38<sney>but I started with 2.2 so I wouldn't know
12:38<bittin>i just started with 4.0 but have a 2.1 cd i got from a friend
12:38<bittin>:D
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12:40<alex11>well i sure wish i discovered it earlier, would have preferred it over windows
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12:42<vv221>That’s an easy preference ;P
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13:05<jhutchins>alex11: I have a tendency to postpone upgrades, right now because Buster breaks something critical. Once you get 2+ years past the initial upgrade, the number of people who remember the exceptions and gotchas.
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13:42<scorpion2185[m]>how can I verify mirage session on revolt?
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14:25<tjcarter>jhutchins: I actually find that's not necessarily a problem. People are always installing stable and then immediately just changing sources.list and plowing ahead with an upgrade to testing or to sid. For most of Debian's history it's generally been not convenient to just install one of those directly.
14:26<tjcarter>There HAVE been upgrades that, if just done like that, stuff breaks.
14:28<tjcarter>bittin: Wish I still had a slink CD actually.
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14:32<tjcarter>myoxo's space problem … rotate and clear systemd journal to give you ANY free space at all, then autoremove and autoclean
14:33<tjcarter>I figure myoxo found a solution earlier, but that's a pretty standard problem we wind up with providing user support for Linux Mint: User has filled their drive and now cannot even login.
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15:01<myoxo>tjcarter: yeah, I found a solution, but please elaborate anyway! What do you mean by "rotate and clear systemd journal" ?
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15:03<sarnold>myoxo: probably something along the lines of journalctl --rotate --vacuum-size=... --vacuum-files=... --vacuum-time=...
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15:08<myoxo>sarnold: I see. But, out of curiocity here - how much space is required for these operations? I mean: I deleted at least a couple of megabytes of old logsa and stuff without much effect.
15:08<tepozoa>^ I address that by hard-setting SysteMaxUse: sed -i.bak 's/^#SystemMaxUse=.*/SystemMaxUse=50M/g' /etc/systemd/journald.conf
15:09<myoxo>ah. if you can liberate 50 megs, then you're *guaranteed* that stuff is going to happen?
15:09<sarnold>myoxo: how much space is required depends largely on how much journal content you're generating, how much you want to keep, etc
15:09<myoxo>yeah, sure, but like - ballpark estimate? 10M? 1G?
15:10<tepozoa>myoxo: not liberate, other way around - limit the journal to only use 50M (in that example)
15:10<myoxo>I'm just trying to get a vague idea here
15:10<myoxo>tepozoa: OK, but if you *don't* have 50M, then surely you need to liberate that first?
15:11*tepozoa nods - sarnold gave you the incancation above
15:11<tepozoa>there are options to tell journalctl to go purge the old stuff
15:12<myoxo>yeah, I get it. Limit system usage to a bare minimum - i.e. 50M, and then liberate that.
15:12<tepozoa>https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2020/12/clear-systemd-journal-logs-ubuntu/ <- looks easy to read
15:12<sarnold>so, of the three systems that I've got online at the moment, one is using 880 megs, one 3.0 gigs, one 2.2 gigs
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15:13<sarnold>funny, the 880 meg and the 3.0 gig systems both have tools that log a few hundred bytes every 30 seconds or so, I expected them to both be using much more than the 2.2 gig system..
15:14<tepozoa>myoxo: given that Debian (and most others) implement rsyslog to write text files, you're sort of keeping two sets of logs over in /var/log -- I usually purge the journals with wild abandon (heh) because I know that same information is in {auth.log,syslog,etc.} already
15:14<myoxo>see, this is really useful! I naively thought this kind of stuff only would require a couple of kilobytes, tops! So that deleting som logs or stuff was going to cut it. But I actually need to either a) Liberate huge amounts of space, or b) reduce system requirements to an appropriate amount and liberate that.
15:14<tepozoa>both!
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15:15<tepozoa>you need to liberate to get back to working, /and/ look at setting hard limits on journal resource use
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15:15<tepozoa>(solve for immediate need, solve for future you)
15:16<myoxo>well, the latter is probably wise, and I shall. But to be fair: The laptop has been putting along without much cleaning *at all* since 2011.
15:16<myoxo>took 10 years for this to become an issue!
15:16<tepozoa>:)
15:16<myoxo>*might* be because I dedicated *half* my disk space too /root
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15:17<tepozoa>(opinion) basically the systemd journal defaults are kinda high and allow it to just keep too much crap laying around that would normally be purged on a cycle
15:18<tepozoa>this laptop I'm on was installed in April and still has the entire journal laying around on it
15:19<sarnold>one of these systems:
15:19<sarnold>-- Logs begin at Mon 2020-08-31 19:04:59 PDT, end at Mon 2021-08-23 12:17:01 PDT. --
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15:19*tepozoa nods ^ like that
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15:21<tepozoa>(to be clear this is not Debian's fault, it's the upstream defaults - the same problem happens on other distros)
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15:22<Sqrt{not}>myoxo, really? half to /root/ ? or do you mean half to the root file system "/" ?
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15:50<jhutchins>.v calibre
15:50<jhutchins>,v calibre
15:50<judd>Package: calibre on amd64 -- stretch: 2.75.1+dfsg-1; stretch-backports: 3.39.1+dfsg-3~bpo9+1; buster: 3.39.1+dfsg-3; buster-backports: 3.48.0+dfsg-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.12.0+dfsg-1; bookworm: 5.16.1+dfsg-1; sid: 5.25.0+dfsg-2
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16:00<unipokati>I need Riseup.net Invitation Codes, Does anyone can help me?
16:02<sney>no, #debian is only for debian support.
16:02<jhutchins>unipokati: This is a Debian technical support channel, I rather doubt it. Unlikely you'll find anything on OFTC, it's generally a technical network.
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16:03<unipokati>sney, thanks
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16:42<hdb2>I have a laptop that is a little older, so I usually install very lightweight tools. for networking I've always used wicd, but that's been deprecated in bullseye. what would you try next? I saw connman on the wiki page, I thought about trying that but wanted to get other opinions.
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16:43<urk>PMT: I am moving back to Hexchat, and shutting off AndroIRC. Next step is to get rid of this hideous dark background on my screen.
16:43<urk>Hmm. Developers must have worked at night when trying to get this thing finished
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16:48<Sqrt{not}>hdb2, The wiki talks about this a little: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
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16:49<Sqrt{not}>(maybe that's the page you already mentioned?)
16:50<hdb2>Sqrt{not}: yes, that's the page I had read (sorry I didn't supply a link). I just wanted to see if anyone in the room had experience with that tool. obviously I could always do it by hand, but having a tool is convenient...
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16:58<hdb2>I just installed connman+cmst on a test laptop and it looks nice, seems to do exactly what I need.
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16:59<tjcarter>ahha! Found the cause of smartmontools constantly reporting that my SSDs are about to die when … they aren't.
16:59<tjcarter>Every single reboot causes "unsafe shutdown" to nvme devices.
16:59<tjcarter>Something's not notifying the nvme devices that oh yeah, we're shutting down BTW.
17:00<tjcarter>Buffers get flushed and all of course, but the drives aren't informed of the impending poweroff.
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17:01<tjcarter>A web search reveals that everybody seems to just ignore it.
17:02<tjcarter>(This seems like an improper solution to me, but … aside from suggesting that everyone update their firmware which is always already at the latest, that's the best they've got.)
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17:06<tepozoa>https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/project/ubuntu-kernel/patch/1434439309-5117-2-git-send-email-alex.hung@canonical.com/ <- the chatter is that the kernel is only waiting 2 seconds for the ACK, it looks like they added a new nvme.shutdown_timeout= kernel param you could try. I see people setting it to 8s
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17:15<AndroUser>Lost my xfce functionality after trying to change the desktop color. Liss was after rebooting. I rebooted because selecting a new background color did not change the color, and now I cant use my computer at all. Im talking to you on AndroIRc on my cell phone.
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17:18<Tenkawa>tjcarter: how intriguing/odd.. I have 4 nvme drives running right now and none of them shutdown incorrectly (on x86 or arm64)
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17:19<Tenkawa>all Debian 64 bit
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17:20<Tenkawa>tjcarter: is it certain vendors/chipsets?
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17:20*Tenkawa would definitely be interested in reading up on this for his CM4 that runs one
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17:26<AndroUser>I upgraded to Bullseye feom Buster.
17:26<AndroUser>This is urk.
17:30<dvs>!win AndroUser
17:30<dpkg>Congratulations, AndroUser! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120!
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17:31<user9582>Is intel-microcode highly recommended?
17:31<sarnold>yes
17:31<sney>on any baremetal intel cpu system, yes
17:32<user9582>Just realised I never installed it on my laptop which has been running debian for years now *facepalm*
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17:33<tjcarter>Tenkawa: Don't know about that, but I've got an asus motherboard and Sabrent drives, so I am going to guess it's a pretty common problem.
17:34<mentor>What damage occurs to an SSD on unsafe shutdown?
17:35<tjcarter>mentor: SSDs reallocate blocks to wear level. You could have some data loss if they lose power while doing that.
17:35<mentor>That sounds a little speculative
17:35<dvs>mentor: oh are you getting those smart messages too?
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17:35<mentor>No, I just wondered
17:36<tjcarter>mentor: it's no more speculative than any other random cutting of the power. The system doesn't know if the drive is doing stuff in the background.
17:37<tjcarter>I wonder if there is a specific command that's just not being sent.
17:37<tjcarter>Presumably power is cut AFTER the drives sync, so they should not be doing anything at the time power is lost, but they expect to be told to shut down and are not being told so.
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17:39<m>Data loss isn't damage though
17:40<AndroUser>How do I pull up the command line if I loose my start menu? I teied to change the desktop colie, rebooted, and lost my desktop.
17:40<AndroUser>Colie is color
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17:42<user9582>Could anyone on a Thinkpad P1 or X1 Extreme provide insight into the hardware compatibility? Thinking of getting a secondhand one as an upgrade
17:42<m>AndroUser: <Ctrl>-<Alt>-F1?
17:42<sney>thinkpads are generally very well supported
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17:43<sney>make sure it doesn't have any nvidia optimus nonsense and the rest will probably work out of the box
17:43<tjcarter>AndroUser: what desktop are you running?
17:43<tjcarter>AndroUser: the Gnome terminal default (also used in Cinnamon) is ctrl-alt-T
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17:43<user9582>Yeah I'm on a X230, the 1366x768 screen really isn't enough these days and I'm not skilled enough to upgrade it to a full HD myself
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17:44<user9582>s/not skilled enough/lack the skills/
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17:44<AndroUser>tjcarter: xfce
17:44<dvs>user9582: FHD was one of the keys things I was looking for before I bought mine.
17:44<tjcarter>user9582: If you decide you're brave enough to try it, most of those Thinkpads are a dream to open up and work on.
17:44<Booda>no skills needed, look at a youtube vid
17:45<tjcarter>AndroUser: Should work in XFCE too
17:45<sney>compatibility will ultimately depend on the individual components. so if you find a refurb seller with some P1 or X1 stock, look at the specific model/type number, or otherwise a list of what parts it actually has
17:45<sney>and +1 to upgrading the X230 - I used to be a thinkpad warranty tech so I might be a *little* skewed, but they are typically the easiest laptops to work on
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17:46<AndroUser>Lost all functionaluty of my desktop after merely trying to change the desktop color
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17:47<user9582>Only way I get by these days is using a custom Xorg modeline lmao
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17:47<tjcarter>sney: FG tech support's been limited due to covid … we've been teaching users to do upgrades and swap drives on desktops remotely or with video guidance. I would have NO problems walking a user through such an upgrade on most Thinkpads, though I don't know if I'd be ready to help them do a screen swap remotely.
17:48<tjcarter>Most Thinkpads. Those Yoga pieces of crap no way.
17:48<sney>right, the real ones, with the black cases and visible screws
17:48<dvs>aptly named!
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17:49<user9582>More cores and RAM would make my VMs happy :D
17:49<AndroUser>tjcarter: changing the color option for my desktop wall paper doesnt work, and caused my stsem to go into a catatonic state.
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17:50<tjcarter>AndroUser: I suspect you inadvertently changed more than that. And actually, are you on bullseye or sid?
17:51<AndroUser>tjcarter: I can ni longer minimize Thuderbird nor Firefix browser.
17:51<tjcarter>(sid in #debian-next, not here, but a recent upgrade to sid CAN screw up all X11 completely. It has a fix.)
17:51<tjcarter>That sounds like a different problem.
17:52<AndroUser>Im definutely in Bullseye, and that alone is what caused the problem...
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17:52<tjcarter>What'd you use to change the colors?
17:52<tjcarter>Sounds like maybe something crashed xfwm4
17:53<AndroUser>tjcarter: start, settings desktop, but color didnt change.
17:53<tjcarter>and your whole panel disappeared?
17:54<tjcarter>Do your windows have borders?
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17:55<AndroUser>Yup, and also lost the functionality of most desktop programs. Cant mimize them
17:56<AndroUser>Minimize them
17:57<AndroUser>No one has answered my question in #XFCE
17:59<AndroUser>No one has answered my question in #XFCE. Im going to minimize my screen and see if I can find a fix on my cell phone.
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18:01<user9582>hmmm https://paste.debian.net/hidden/f1f20bae/
18:02<user9582>would have thought that microcode would load sooner?
18:02<tjcarter>AndroUser: ctrl-alt-F1 and login. see if you can figure out what display X is using (probably :0 or :1). You can set it in your environment and run X apps that way
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18:03<tjcarter>user9582: you installed the microcode, but did it get added to your initramfs?
18:04<tjcarter>I forget if that gets added automatically or not.
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18:04<tjcarter>0.8#### means it's loading microcode within the first second of taking execution, that's pretty early.
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18:08<Guest5199>hello
18:08<sney>hi
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18:08<Guest5199>does this channel get used often?
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18:13<user9582>tjcarter: yeah it's updated, seems like it's not early enough
18:13<tjcarter>user9582: because your kernel is complaining your CPU has bugs before applying the patches?
18:13<tjcarter>It's not a problem really.
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18:14<user9582>maybe i need another reboot now that the microcode has been uploaded? hmmm
18:14<tjcarter>I don't know how much of that is persistent.
18:16<tjcarter>Generally, it can't hurt, but I won't be surprised if your CPU is still reported as having bugs just because some of the bugs that have been found in the past several years (Spectre/Meltdown and derivatives) CANNOT be fixed completely, only mitigated a bit.
18:16<sney>also in general,
18:16<sney>!warning
18:16<dpkg>Yerp, lots of software outputs warnings. Kernel module warnings on boot, mplayer warnings, GTK warnings, X11 warnings, build warnings, gpg warnings. Don't be scared - informative output is a GOOD THING. Consider yourself warned, and if the program works as expected, be happy.
18:17<user9582>I'm not sure if "no microcode" means "no microcode available to fix" or "no microcode fix available" I guess
18:19<mason>https://github.com/speed47/spectre-meltdown-checker is a useful tool for looking at the state of the Intel bugs.
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18:19<tjcarter>After another reboot, if it's still there, that's pretty much what it means. "At this precise milisecond, this bug exists, and is not yet fixed. I'll proceed as though I should not poke the bear."
18:19<crawler>Is there a way to access desktop GUI environment remotely other than VNC? Something responsive/not laggy
18:19<tjcarter>crawler: how remotely?
18:20<crawler>similar to MS-RDP
18:20<tjcarter>You can literally use RDP
18:20<Tenkawa>there's xrdp I think
18:20<Tenkawa>right?
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18:20<crawler>Any resources available to read about that?
18:21<tjcarter>Also remmina
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18:21<crawler>remmina is a client, no?
18:21<Tenkawa>tjcarter: wasn't familiar with remmina.. taking a look myself
18:22<Tenkawa>oh
18:22<Tenkawa>yeah its a client
18:22<crawler>Tenkawa did you actually use xrdp before?
18:23<Tenkawa>crawler: a long time ago yes
18:23<tjcarter>Tenkawa: yes, but it connects to xrdp and the like
18:23<sney>I've used xrdp, AFAIK it will spawn a separate X session for remote login, it doesn't allow remote control of the current session
18:24<Tenkawa>yeah its a server daemon like vnc too
18:24<crawler>sney do you know any solution that would allow controlling the current session?
18:24<sney>only x11vnc and various proprietary stuff like anydesk
18:24<crawler>ty
18:24<crawler>:<
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18:25<Tenkawa>I just tunnel ssh connections
18:25<Tenkawa>that works best for me
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18:26<tjcarter>Potentially useful reading http://c-nergy.be/blog/?p=4168
18:26<user16439>ooohh MDS is fixed
18:26<Tenkawa>you can do whole dm's through X via ssh
18:26<tuxd3v>hello guys,
18:26<Tenkawa>greetings tuxd3v
18:27<tuxd3v>systemd creates mount units from, processing '/etc/fstab'
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18:27<user16439>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/21e32a59/
18:27<tuxd3v>my question is I don´ t see there a .mount file for the '/' mount point in fstab :/
18:27<tjcarter>there's also x2go though I've never played for that
18:28<tuxd3v>hello Tenkawa
18:28<tjcarter>tuxd3v: probably because / is mounted by the initramfs
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18:29<tuxd3v>this is what I have:
18:29<tuxd3v>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/355539ef/
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18:31<magyar>hi, where can I get source lists for bullseye ?
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18:34<aev>https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList
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18:35<Sqrt{not}>tjcarter, did you see tepozoa's answer about your nvme unsafe shutdown?
18:35<tjcarter>Actually I think that link is exactly what you wnat crawler
18:35<tjcarter>I didn't *scrolls*
18:35<Sqrt{not}>[14:06:05] <tepozoa> https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/project/ubuntu-kernel/patch/1434439309-5117-2-git-send-email-alex.hung@canonical.com/ <- the chatter is that the kernel is only waiting 2 seconds for the ACK, it looks like they added a new nvme.shutdown_timeout= kernel param you could try. I see people setting it to 8s
18:36<tjcarter>I'll add that to grub
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18:38<crawler>thank you tjcarter
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18:39<Tenkawa>that was added back in 2015 though… that piece of code may be deprecated by now
18:40<Tenkawa>hopefully it works for you though.. I would hope by now they've figured out a more robust solution
18:42<tjcarter>It's quite possible that is the correct solution: The kernel is sending the command, but not waiting for it to return long enough. Wait longer before giving up is probably a reasonable solution.
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18:43<Tenkawa>agreed on that… the "implementation" is what seems suspect to me
18:44<Sqrt{not}>easy enough to test: do the warnings disappear or not?
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18:46<Tenkawa>Sqrt{not}: true enough.. were you here when I pointed out I have 4 nvme drives and have never had that scenario happen once.. and I run hundreds of gb of io weekly through mine so I have plenty of chances to hit the chance on a shutdown/reboot
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18:48<brokencycle>Hi! I am wondering: We have 'bullseye' aka 'Debian 11' released, but in some places, I can see only '10' not '11'.
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18:48<Tenkawa>afk brb..
18:48<sney>brokencycle: do you mean on the website? packages.debian.org is pending some updates
18:48<brokencycle>Example: If I want to create a new VM in virt-manager, there is no 'Debian 11'.
18:49<sney>virt-manager's debian 10 defaults will work fine for 11
18:49<brokencycle>sney: I thought so, but I find it annoying.
18:50<brokencycle>In packages.d.o, I also see some instances of '10' instead of '11', but if you say they are underway and just take time, ok.
18:50<Sqrt{not}>Tenkawa, yeah, I *think* it was tjcarter who was seeing the warnings. It sounds to me like some arrays reply faster than others, or maybe some setups just don't notice the error. I don't have any or those here, so I have no first hand info.
18:50<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: I can say the parameter doesn't show up in /sys/module/nvme/parameters
18:51<tjcarter>You only notice the error if you have smartmontools set up to shout at you the moment it detects an error acting like any entry in the log is your drive is dyyyyying
18:52<tjcarter>I suppose I could look at Debian's kernel to see if it has the ubuntu patch applied
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18:55<tjcarter>Tenkawa: I've got about 4TB of NVMe here and I do use it quite a bit. 😁
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19:05<Tenkawa>tjcarter: doesn't matter capacity… it matters how much throughput/io you are putting through the device
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19:05<Tenkawa>that's the important part for that issie
19:05<Tenkawa>er issue
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19:06<tjcarter>Mine gets a fair amount of that too.
19:06<Tenkawa>controllers also play a huge part in this equation too
19:07<tjcarter>I'd have to pull one of them to check that.
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19:07<Tenkawa>one of mine is pure junk.. fortunately all it does is occasionally hang.. no corruption though
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19:26<AndroUser>tjcarter: I ran echo $DISPLAY , and it returned nothing.
19:27<tjcarter>DISPLAY won't be set on the console
19:27<tjcarter>do you know how to use top or htop?
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19:29<tjcarter>look for your Xorg processes if you have one run with :0 and another with :1, the :1 is probably what you want. If not, :0
19:29<tjcarter>DISPLAY=:0 <whatever> &
19:30<tjcarter><whatever> of xfwm4 might be a good start to getting things running again
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19:36<Tenkawa>another usual good consistant way is ps auxwww | grep -i wm
19:36<Tenkawa>that will usually find the window manager thats running
19:37<Tenkawa>since 80%+ have *wm in them
19:37<tjcarter>His problem is he doesn't have one of those
19:37<Tenkawa>if he is running xfce he does
19:37<sarnold>that's the thing, his system is busted in some way
19:37<Tenkawa>since you just told him to check for it
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19:37<tjcarter>his wm crashed
19:38<AndroUser>tjcarter: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwqmaehk9p4efb7/IMG_20210823_163328.jpg?dl=0
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19:38<Tenkawa>ok.. here's another way to check
19:38<tjcarter>AndroUser: use :0 then
19:39<AndroUser>What do I do with this process?
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19:40<tjcarter>AndroUser: You were just trying to find its arguments to determine what display to use
19:40<tjcarter>AndroUser: you're going to try to start a window manager and a terminal in X11
19:40<tjcarter>DISPLAY=:0
19:41<tjcarter>xfwm &
19:41<tjcarter>xfce4-terminal &
19:41<tjcarter>that should hopefully get you enough to at least poke around and start quitting out of things.
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19:42<tjcarter>you won't have a panel probably yet
19:42<AndroUser>Which group of numbers in the print out is the process? Is it 2335? 6312? Or 652?
19:42<tjcarter>the first number is the process
19:42<tjcarter>the Xorg process runs your X server itself
19:42<tjcarter>but you had applications with no convenient way to close out of them, etc.
19:43<tjcarter>At this point the best thing to do is log out of X11 completely and see what happens when you log back in
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19:44<AndroUser>Xfwm & returns an error msg "command not found"
19:44<tjcarter>xfwm4
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19:46<AndroUser>I get an error message "Gtk-WARNING **: cannit open display:"
19:46*Tenkawa would recommend a dpkg-reconfigure xwm4 & such personally
19:48<Tenkawa>sounds like the state of these pkgs are not good atm
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19:48<tjcarter>AndroUser: did you set DISPLAY=:0 first?
19:48<Tenkawa>er xfwm4
19:48<tjcarter>Tenkawa: He's at a VT trying to start a wm
19:49<Tenkawa>tjcarter: yes and if the configuration is broke its never going to happen
19:49<tjcarter>that's not the problem he's having right this second
19:49<AndroUser>I get an error message that xwm4 is not installed, and no information is available.
19:49<Tenkawa>why are you not having his use a dm?
19:50<Tenkawa>er him
19:50<tjcarter>he's got a logged in session right now where at least his wm and possibly other things crashed
19:50<tjcarter>I'm trying to get him to a point he has enough control of that session to shut it down and restart it
19:50<Tenkawa>exactly… and its likely going to continue to do so
19:50<AndroUser>xwm4 is not in the repository
19:50<Tenkawa>AndroUser: xfwm4
19:51<tjcarter>AndroUser: I typod the command earlier but … getting it right is important here, terminals can't read minds.
19:52<AndroUser>Tenkawa: dpkg returned [1] 2450
19:52<tjcarter>Oh God, you're just typing random mixtures of commands I fear.
19:53<tjcarter>I can't fix that
19:53<AndroUser>Im in unchartered territory.
19:53<AndroUser>Fix what?
19:53<tjcarter>Basically, you need to reboot
19:54<tjcarter>There's ways to not need to reboot, but … I don't think I'm going to convey what needs doing to you otherwise.
19:54<Tenkawa>tjcarter: yeah my typo started part of the mess
19:54-!-Brigo [~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:55*Tenkawa checks why this keyboard is acting up so bad tonight
19:55<tjcarter>(I just had to replace a couple keyswitches myself last night)
19:56<Tenkawa>tjcarter: macbook pro… I pray I don't need to
19:56<Tenkawa>heh
19:56<Tenkawa>I use it for all of my input
19:57<tjcarter>I have a MacBookPro9,2 here. I'm literally giving it back to Free Geek for someone to use with an older macOS on it. I've given up trying to make it behave like a proper Linux box.
19:57<Tenkawa>I have mine running nicely… will get a M1 though on next gen
19:58<tjcarter>I tried to run bullseye on it. Crap wifi I just can't make behave, the sdxc slot has never worked properly, and it's got a physical problem in one of its USB ports. Basically, I'm just done with it.
19:58<Tenkawa>I wouldve got one if I hadn't bought this one right before they came out
19:58<tjcarter>This one dates to 2012.
19:58<Tenkawa>Debian runs great on here (in VM's)
19:58<tjcarter>It's got a "normal" HD in it at least. Not soldered.
19:58<Tenkawa>oh
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20:05<tjcarter>I … gave up on Apple computers in 2018. Reasons get way into -offtopic territory. VMs are fun, in general though
20:05<tjcarter>AndroUser: did you manage to get enough going to be able to reboot the system at least?
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20:08<AndroUser>U did ad you suggested, and typed dpkg xfwm4
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20:11<AndroUser>Any ideas how to get "X" restarted?
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20:13<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, I thing you should reboot, and if no graphics, start a text terminal, and look at the logs/journals to see what the errors are with your window manager
20:13<AndroUser>tjcarter: Nothing had changed, and the display doesnt work?
20:14<AndroUser>I have rebooted many times, and to no avail. Bullseye isnt that stable.
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20:14<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, and what do the logs/journals say is the problem then?
20:16<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, if you want to try to fix this, you need to find more details than "the display doesnt work". what is the error?
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20:18<AndroUser>Sqrt: No gui control. Cant enter data, nor minimize any screens. Menu bar and start up screen are gone.
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20:19<AndroUser>Control "--" for minimizing a screen is gone.
20:20<AndroUser>Something is wrong with the display manager, "X", Or both.
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20:20<AndroUser>No one is responding in the "xfce4" channel
20:21<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, OK, so you need to look in the logs and or journals. can you log in at a text terminal?
20:22<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, are you sure that your bullseye install is completed? can you log in at a text terminal?
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20:24<AndroUser>Sqr: Im back at the command line. There is no oroblem loggung in, and yes the Bullseye installation is complete, and no errors when updating or uograding.
20:26<AndroUser>The color control for the desktop wall paper doesnt work.!
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20:27<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, are you inside the graphical desktop now?
20:27<AndroUser>Im at the command line trying to pull up some logs
20:27<Sqrt{not}>very good:)
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20:34<AndroUser>Sqr*: Im in dmesg. Anything in particular I should look for?
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20:37<AndroUser>Im scrollung throught it page-by-page, but it would probably make sense to save it to a file, and run a filter.
20:38<AndroUser>Or should I be looking at syslog?
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20:40<AndroUser>Im goung to take a dinner break. Back in an hour.
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20:46<tjcarter>I got pulled away for a bit … I'd guess that something on AndroUser's system got hosed. Bullseye is actually pretty stable in general so there must be an extra variable somewhere
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20:51<AndroUser>tjcarter: what should I look for in dmesg? Or should I be lookung in Syslog?
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20:51<sussudio>all the logs
20:54<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, syslog yes, also look in "journalctl -r"
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20:59<AndroUser>Lot of concerns un dmesg: 1) psmouse serio1: synaptics: Your touchpad says it can support, etc, etc. At this point it would probably make sense to save dmesg to a file, and forward it to Debian developers. There are many errors, and warnings unique to mt hardware.
21:00<AndroUser>my hardware.
21:00<sarnold>you can use the pastebinit tool or nc to termbin.com if you want to share it here and get immediate feedback
21:01<AndroUser>I will send it to termbin.com
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21:08<AndroUser>Its being sent to a file called 08-23-21_mydmesg.lig
21:08<AndroUser>Log. I cant type
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21:09<sarnold>normally termbin gives you an url like https://termbin.com/kby0
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21:53<r4fkramer>Please, where did the copy made of this .iso image go? When I went to check the UBS Flash Drive where the iso image was supposedly being copied to, I saw that it was empty. I am using debian bullseye stable 11.0
21:53<r4fkramer>But the copy was made, but I don't know to what destination...
21:53<r4fkramer>https://paste.debian.net/1208775/
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21:53<r4fkramer>Sorry for flood. It was an accident.
21:54<themill>was that usb stick mounted prior to doing dd?
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21:55<r4fkramer>Thank you for answering, themill. It was mounted but I switched to 'umount' prior using dd
21:56<themill>it being mounted immediately afterwards is a bit odd
21:56<r4fkramer>No themill, sorry. It was mounted
21:56<r4fkramer>It was mounted prior to doing dd
21:57<themill>yeah, umount it then run dd.
21:57<r4fkramer>Fine, but, please, you can see it was copied; but copied to where ?
21:58<raven523>copied directly onto the drive
21:58<r4fkramer>I tried to find it, but couldn't confirm where it was copied.
21:58<raven523>not as a file but directly. it reformatted the drive
21:58<sarnold>heh, I bet your system's going to be mighty unhappy...
21:59<raven523>if you try to mount /dev/sdb then it should work
21:59<sarnold>I'd plan on a reboot soon
21:59<themill>r4fkramer: your stick was obliterated by that dd command. you won't find a copy of the ISO on it.
21:59<themill>you'll find the contents of the ISO image on it (assuming it's not completely confused)
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22:00<r4fkramer>Thank you for clarifying raven523.
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22:01<r4fkramer>I see themill. So, that's why I can't find any copied file here.
22:01<themill>umm, where are you looking?
22:02<themill>did you unplug it or otherwise refresh the kernel's understanding of the partition table?
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22:04<r4fkramer>I was looking to usb drive, themill, I supposed that iso file was being copied to this device.
22:04<sarnold>I like themill's suggestion to yank the usb stick
22:04<r4fkramer>I don't remember very well, themill, sorry
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22:04<r4fkramer>Fine sarnold.
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22:08<r4fkramer>sarnold, themill and raven523 a bit confused here; should I umount the device before performing dd command ?
22:08<sarnold>r4fkramer: yes
22:08<themill>yes you should have done so
22:09<r4fkramer>Ok sarnold and themill, thank you for clarifying here. So, that's why it didn't work, for it was mounted - I just forgot to umount it :(
22:09<sarnold>r4fkramer: when the kernel consults in-memory datastructures for this filesystem, they will say which sectors of the drive to use to find *other* parts of the filesystem. Those are now filled with garbage. when the kernel tries to treat those blocks as further metadata contents, or file contents, it's going to get very very confused.
22:12<r4fkramer>I see sarnold, in fact, very confused - I'll read more times this explanation to get a more clear understanding about it.
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22:13<r4fkramer>themill, sarnold, raven523, really thank you very much for attention and Great Support.
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22:14<r4fkramer>sarnold, I'll read and read again about your last explanation. Thank you very much for that :)
22:14<sarnold>:)
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22:18<jsgrant_>So ... been fighting trying to build a custom version of the ffmpeg apt with nvenc support for a few hours now (for use in OBS) and no-matter what I do I can't seem to have it "take". I did a similar process like a year ago in Debian 10 and things 'just worked'... am I missing something?
22:19<jsgrant_>When I run ''' for i in encoders decoders filters; do echo $i:; ffmpeg -hide_banner -${i} | egrep -i "npp|cuvid|nvenc|cuda|nvdec"; done ''' it even claims there's nvenc support now ... I just can't seem to get OBS to recognize it, I guess?
22:21<sarnold>is obs perhaps looking at the debian-supplied ffmpeg rather than your own custom build of it?
22:21<sussudio>jsgrant: maybe the latest security fixes broke something?
22:22<sarnold>if you run obs at a terminal rather than clicking on an icon, does it emit any useful log messages?
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22:23<jsgrant_>sarnold: I "dpkg -i *.deb" from the build directory so I assume it overwrites the actual "debian" packages? I know that since they're not marked, all the libav stuff gets flagged and replaced if I update / upgrade lol
22:23<sarnold>jsgrant_: aha
22:23<jsgrant_>Also good idea will run from terminal and check if I can grokk anything useful from it
22:24<jsgrant_>sussudio: Haven't been keeping track. In-reference to ffmpeg, and related packages?
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22:25<jsgrant_>Hmmmm, "[h264_nvenc @ 0x564a6fe7ec00] Driver does not support the required nvenc API version. Required: 11.1 Found: 11.0
22:25<jsgrant_>[h264_nvenc @ 0x564a6fe7ec00] The minimum required Nvidia driver for nvenc is (unknown) or newer
22:25<jsgrant_>warning: [NVENC encoder: 'simple_h264_recording'] Failed to open NVENC codec: Function not implemented
22:25<jsgrant_>"
22:25-!-jsgrant_ was kicked from #debian by debchange [flood detected]
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22:25<jsgrant_>Uh, got a flood kick loool
22:25<jsgrant_>Guess will post message in 2 parts
22:25<sarnold>jsgrant_: d'oh :) yeah that looks pretty promising
22:25<jsgrant_>Oh wait, it probably came through; Irc ... forgot can't really delete existing
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22:26<sarnold>hmm, I wonder why debchange kicked *both* of your clients. interesting choice.
22:26<jsgrant_>Also, if that's really a .1 release off man ... gonna scream. lool
22:26<jsgrant_>Probably looks for alts for potential 'kick / ban evasion' I'd assume.
22:27<jsgrant_>I don't even know what I'd do in this circumstance ... wait for a backport of the driver I guess?
22:27<sarnold>how'd you get your nvidia driver? is there a newer one there?
22:27<jsgrant_>Not sure what / where nvenc's "API" is stored
22:27<sussudio>jsgrant_: there was a fix for something that was screwed up in the previous fixes a few days ago
22:27<jsgrant_>Driver is through Bullseye stable
22:28<jsgrant_>just regular , debian-supplied driver
22:28<sussudio>jsgrant_: something broke interlacing?
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22:33<jsgrant_>Okay, yeah, sadly looks like I'm probably going to need a backported version of the nvidia-driver. The version I have right now on Bullseye 460.91.03 and looks like it need 470.57.02 or newer
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22:34<jsgrant_>Well honestly, TYVM sarnold ... because honestly hours of messing with this, and never even thought to run obs from a freaking terminal. Pretty self-explanatory after that... but beating myself a bit from not coming to that 'solution' myself. loool
22:34<sarnold>jsgrant_: heh, that's my all-purpose rubber-ducky method :) "does it have log messages?" :)
22:35<jsgrant_>That's something I certainly have to get better at; My "method" has always been ... lets do this 1000 times and see if we notice any patterns (real or imagined; lol).
22:37<sarnold>well, that's not a bad one either :)
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22:39<jsgrant_>Both are horror-movie motifs if taken to their logical extremes. lol Rubber-ducking is Hitchcock's Pyscho & And over-and-over-again is no-fun-and-all-play-makes-jack-a-dull-boy a'la The Shining.
22:39<jsgrant_>Well at the time they came out, I guess these weren't motifs as-much as trend setters. lol
22:40<sarnold>rofl
22:40<sarnold>what's "run it through strace"?
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22:40<sarnold>maybe charlie's search for pepe silvia
22:41<jsgrant_>I was going to say -- not explicitly horror, but a different Stanley Kubrick movie; 2001 Space Odyssey when he's going through that interdimensional wormhole
22:42<sarnold>ooooooo
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22:44*jsgrant_ just wrote a note to himself with his build-instructions ... so when he checks back when bookworm-backports "is a thing" I won't hopefully waste that much time. lol
22:45<jsgrant_>Wonder if I can cheese it for now, and just build whatever verison of obs that was shipped in Buster. lol
22:47<jsgrant_>Already tried the Flathub version, and unsurprisingly (due to it requiring a newer version of nvidia-driver and/or cuda) it doesn't work.
22:47<jsgrant_>Least-resistance workaround I can think of while staying 'mostly upstream' still.
22:50<jsgrant_>This is the situation where I wish Debian had something 'Fedora Toolbox' and could just basically run a containerized version of Buster and just launch it from there. Would also "solve" the non-official nvenc enable ffmpeg because it could be limited to running 'just there'.
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22:55*jsgrant_ is currently looking to see if there's a flag to build obs-studio with a different version of this video-codec api ... that's the "actual best move" right now, if possible.
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23:01<jsgrant_>Well ... evidently Kiwi (web irc) won't let you connect to 2 irc servers at a time -- so gonna go into obs-studio's irc and hopefully get an answer on this. Thanks again sarnold; You probably saved me another 4+ hours tbh! lol talk to y'all later. o/
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23:03<AndroUser>Im back. Any thoughts on how to make a copy of dmesg? I tried to run a cron job with the > command but believe the buffer is too big.
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23:04<sarnold>the dmesg buffer is quite small compared to the usual maximum file size on most filesystems
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23:05<AndroUser>Im going to use termbin to send it to the Debian debelopment team after I figure out how to collect it.
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23:06<AndroUser>sarnold: how would you copy it?
23:07<sarnold>AndroUser: it depends what you're doing iwth it
23:07<sarnold>AndroUser: dmesg > foo if you want something on disk
23:07<sarnold>AndroUser: dmesg | nc termbin.com 9999 if you want to share it with people on irc
23:08<AndroUser>Just sent it to termbin
23:09<AndroUser>Its now at https://teembin.com/8d19
23:10<AndroUser>Ooophs typo
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23:10<AndroUser>Https://termbin.com/8d19
23:10<sarnold>still 404
23:11<AndroUser>I know, and I dont know why.
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23:11<AndroUser>Im redoing it
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23:12<AndroUser>Https://termbin.com/fkq4
23:13<sarnold>that worked
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23:15<AndroUser>Im going to try to figure out how to recover with Time Machine, and revert ti kernel 4.19 Mt next attempt will be a dual boot with kernel 5.10 or later
23:16<sarnold>AndroUser: the only two things that stood out to me, is that you might not have the firmware package installed https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware
23:16<AndroUser>I cant get kernel 5.10 to work for me even though it supposedly is stable
23:16<sarnold>and the other thing is this:
23:16<sarnold>[ 7.193500] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] *ERROR* CPU pipe A FIFO underrun
23:16<sarnold>I don't know just how bad these things are; I'm pretty sure I've seen dmesgs with hundreds of these things before, so I wouldn't have thought it *fatal*, but it does say *ERROR*. hmm.
23:17<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, you might still have the previous kernel installed.
23:17<sarnold>anyway that's my guess -- install whatever linux-firmware package debian provides, and see how things are going
23:17<AndroUser>My understanding is that Bullseye was supposed to have this built in.
23:18<sarnold>okay, I'm off, have fun :)
23:19<AndroUser>There are many other errors, and noticed a problem with systemd
23:21<AndroUser>Where did you see the firmware error?
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23:22<Sqrt{not}>the only firmware error I saw there was some missing bluetooth firmware
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23:22<AndroUser>I see SystemD errors.
23:23<Sqrt{not}>did you look in syslog and journalctl -r to find errors from the display manager or desktop environment? I thought your complaint is that the desktop does not come up correctly after you changed its colors. is that right?
23:23<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, can you show what those error are please?
23:23<AndroUser>Wouldnt they also show up in dmesg?
23:24<AndroUser>I was not able to change the color, and the system crashed after selecting the color option.
23:25<AndroUser>Best to search my termbin url for systemd si ce one if those erroes was in there.
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23:29<AndroUser>Syslog shows error getting user list, problem with bootstrapping, and stuck at 5%.
23:36<AndroUser>Jmcnaught: was the firmware issue finally resolved? I see some errors in both dmesg, and syslog, but dont know what to do with them.
23:37<Sqrt{not}>maybe you could put your syslog in termbin also
23:37<AndroUser>Yes
23:37<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, it looks like your firmware problem is only with bluetooth?
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23:46<AndroUser>Https://termbin.com/bmnn
23:47<AndroUser>Thats my syslog
23:47<AndroUser>Any other files I should check?
23:49<AndroUser>(Sqrt {not}: No, I do not have wireless connectivity. Im still depedent on a Cat 8 cable that connects to my cable modem.
23:49<Sqrt{not}>I see "lightdm.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE" several times, because it finds no accounts to allow login for
23:50<AndroUser>Alsi, I noticed there is a Systemd error as well.
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23:50<AndroUser>Sqt: Yeah, but that shouldnt affect my display.
23:51<Sqrt{not}>lightdm is your display manager. if it is exiting, you will have no graphical environment, only your text terminal.
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23:52<AndroUser>How do I fix this nuisance?
23:52<AndroUser>Why am I getting a systemD erroe?
23:52<AndroUser>Error. I cant type tonight.
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23:56<AndroUser>Any thoughts on the best approach to fixing the problem?
23:57<Sqrt{not}>I don't know why you get this error: Error getting user list from org.freedesktop.Accounts: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Accounts was not provided by any .service files
23:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 967] by debhelper
23:58<Sqrt{not}>apparently something changed more that just a color setting.
23:59<Sqrt{not}>if you can reconstruct exactly what you changed the last time it was working, before it stopped working, maybe we could try to reverse that error.
23:59<Sqrt{not}>otherwise, maybe it would be easier just to reinstall, if this is still a new install
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23:59<AndroUser>Nope, the color setting in "desktop" was when it happened, and the color settinf did not effect change.
---Logclosed Tue Aug 24 00:00:08 2021