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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-25

---Logopened Wed Aug 25 00:00:09 2021
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00:36<urk>I have some new insight as to why I have a display problem. I entered xfdesktop at the command line to restore xfce, and I received an error message indicating the windows system manager was missing at "0". So the question I have is how to restore and fix this problem. Currently I can't move any program, nor look at more than one program at a time. The minimize feature is removed from all programs.
00:37<urk>Reverting to the old distro likely didn't change the windows system manager X, but that is another question. It should have fixed the problem, but carried it over.
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00:42<urk>Sqrt[not}: What command can I use to check which windows system manager is installed? I believe I have determined why I have a display problem, and believe it was caused due to a missing windows system manager. I ran xfdesktop to fix xfce, and received an error message indicating the X windows system manager is missing at "0".
00:46<tjcarter>0 and not :0?
00:46<tjcarter>and … installed isn't the same as running
00:48<tjcarter>If the error is talking about :0 then it's saying it doesn't see a window manager running (which is different than installed)
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00:55<somiaj>urk: have you tried your system with a new user, to rule out user configuration issues?
00:55<somiaj>but yes, it sounds like you don't have a window manager, it should be installed unless you broke your install somehow, but first I would try a blank user to rule out user configuration
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00:58<urk>somiaj: No I didn't, but did receive an error message when running xfdesktop indicating that the windows system display manager "X" was missing at 0. This would fall in line with the types of behavior I have been seeing such as not being able to move programs, no minimize tools in any process, etc. Creating a new user might fix the problem, but for now I would prefer to fix the display problem.
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01:00<somiaj>If creating a new user fixes the problem, it is a user configuration issue
01:00<somiaj>so you have to then either delete/or track down the user configuration issue. But that is the first thign you should do
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01:04<urk>somiaj: No configuration issues were messed with. The problem occurred after upgrading to Bullseye, and selecting a tool to change the color of the desktop. At that point I lost my ability to move programs in the gui.
01:04<urk>Already received an error message indicating the X Manager is missing at "0" whatever that means, that this error displayed when running the XFCE refresh tool xfdesktop
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01:10<urk>ok, I am running lightdm-xsession. The question now is why is this missing at position "0" whatsever that means? And should I reinstall it?
01:13<grawity>does it say "0" or does it say ":0"
01:13<grawity>there's a difference
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01:27<urk>Can someone provide guidance on how to remove lightdm, and reinstall it? I have read quite a bit online about various fixes to fix a corrupted X windows manager, and believe the solution lies in removing and reinstalling lightdm.
01:28<urk>I have used a bunch of tools and techniques found at the following url, but to no avail
01:28<urk>I don't think creating a new user is the right way to handle this problem. It would probably fix it, but suspect something a lot simpler is at hand. My problem is definitely a corrupted display manager.
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04:28<mboeru>Hello, I am trying to install debian jessie, and I am getting this Suite error Does anyone have any ideas on what might cause this? Network works, I can reach repo dns and can download the Release file without issues. Thanks!
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04:30<themill>mboeru: jessie is not testing and is not on the mirrors
04:30<snadge>debian 11 just spontaneously reboots on my k6-3 400.. whats the minimum spec?
04:30<snadge>it boots okay on my p3 xeon
04:31<mboeru>@themill I tried with but I got the same.
04:31<themill>snadge: looks like k6-3 hasn't been supported for about 5 years
04:31<snadge>" However, Debian GNU/Linux stretch will not run on 586 (Pentium) or earlier processors. "
04:31<snadge>yeah i just read this.. sadness ;)
04:32<snadge>debian 8?
04:33<snadge>thats what irc is for isn't it? wasting peoples time with unsupported hardware and software
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04:39<Ruhangiz>Dear people, on my Debian bullseye I try to install "network-manager-openconnect" but get the the error message "package network-manager-openconnect is not available but is referenced by another package. This could mean, that the package is missing, that it has been superseded or is only available from a different source. E: For package »network-manager-openconnect« is no existing installation candidate "
04:40<Ruhangiz>I double checked the sources.list yesterday and today and everything is fine there.
04:40<Ruhangiz>Any ideas?
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04:40<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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04:48<Ruhangiz> Thanks jm_ here is the requested output:
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04:50<themill>lots of very bad pinning there
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04:52<jm_>Ruhangiz: as themill said, fix your pinning
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04:57<themill>likely that no pinning is needed at all and it can just be deleted
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05:16<mrjpaxton[m]>Most pinning numbers should be unique. That helps distinguish them a lot better.
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06:05<Dudly>Hi all. I need help with a wireguard question on Debian 10. What is the best channel to ask this?
06:07<Dudly>Can anyone see this message? I am not sure this connection works
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06:12<grove>Dudly: I can see your question, but I know nothing about wireguard
06:12<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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06:19<Dudly>Thanks Grove.
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06:20<BrianG61UK>Dudly: Maybe try #wireguard on Libera.Chat
06:20<Dudly>I will now share my problem. since I already booked all details on earlier post elsewhere, I just give the URL of where I post my question. Unfortunately, no one replied. I guess it is a hard one. And still so primair functionality.
06:22<Dudly>When I do : systemctl status wg-quick@wg0.service
06:22<Dudly>it gives:
06:22<Dudly>systemd[1]: Starting WireGuard via wg-quick(8) for wg0...
06:22<Dudly>[#] ip link add wg0 type wireguard
06:22<Dudly>: RTNETLINK answers: Operation not supported
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06:23<Dudly>I was kicked out. Very nice
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06:24<BrianG61UK>Dudly: Maybe try #wireguard on Libera.Chat
06:24<Dudly>I hope you can use the URL grove. I see no other solution
06:24<Dudly>I see
06:25<crawler>You were kicked out because you've pasted multiple lines at once
06:25<crawler>aka flood
06:25<BrianG61UK>Dudly: I think you were kicked for posting to many lines quickly like a bot
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06:30<jkc>Dudly: Okay. Did you install the kernel headers like wireguard-dkms told you to?
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06:34<Dudly>Like in the link on the topic which I sent. Here:
06:35<grove>Dudly: I generally don't bother with following urls to questions, based on nt roaming the net for questions - In this case I've already said that I know nothing about wireguard so there's not more point in spending my time looking at something I probably can't help with anyway
06:35<jkc>Honestly, I'm not going to open up a bunch of links. I want you to tell us what YOUR problem is, and what YOU have done.
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06:36<grove>s/ nt / not /
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06:39<Dudly>? grove, I don't want to misuse your time. I try elsewere
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06:40<jkc>Or just answer the question.
06:40<jkc>Did you install the kernel headers, and if so, how?
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06:42<grove>I'm not the only one here, you don't have to go elsewhere (and ignore the attempts others have done on helping you) just to avoid bothering me
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06:43<grove>I just answered your question with some expansion on why I had done as I had
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06:46<Dudly>sudo apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
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06:49<jkc>My suggestion would be to install linux-headers-amd64, so that kernel updates won't break you.
06:49<Dudly>really? Ok I try.
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06:50<jkc>Now, that said, wireguard-dkms already depends on the kernel headers.
06:51<jkc>So installing that package should have already pulled them in.
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06:52<Dudly>If it doesn't work i can set the snapshot back and try again
06:52<jkc>What version of Debian are you running?
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06:53<Dudly>Linux (vps) 4.19.0 #1 SMP Tue Jun 9 12:58:54 MSK 2020 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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06:54<jkc>That doesn't look right.
06:55<Dudly>? not right , ok I will do another 'uname -a' for you
06:56<Dudly>uname -a : 4.19.0 #1 SMP Tue Jun 9 12:58:54 MSK 2020 x86_64 GNU/Linux
06:56<Dudly>lsb_release -a
06:56<Dudly>Description: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
06:57<Dudly>Release: 10
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06:58<Dudly>It is my vps provider's Debian version. There was not much alternative when selecting os
06:59<jkc>I think that it's been modified in some way.
07:00<jkc>Who, exactly, is your provider?
07:00<Dudly>could be. For other applications and services it works all-right
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07:01<Dudly>one thing is important I think to tell you.
07:01<crawler>Dudly check your provider control panel, it is likely they might provide an option to use the distribution kernel instead
07:01<jkc>That's why, and you're hosted. You will never get this working.
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07:01<Dudly>When I used the install script here: curl -L | bash
07:02<jkc>Dudly: You're at game over. Hostinger uses OpenVZ for their VMs. You don't have a real kernel.
07:02<Dudly>It didn't show me any interfaces available.
07:02<Dudly>Later I found that all my interfaces (on the vps) where on 'UNKNOWN'
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07:03<Dudly>so I modified that script to list also 'unknown' interfaces. The name of my vp'ses interface where the public ip is on, is: venet1
07:04<Dudly>like it is some kind of virtual machine, however it is a vps
07:04<jkc>Read what I said above.
07:04<jkc>VPSes are VMs. However, not all VMs are created equal.
07:04<crawler>Dudly VPS = virtual machine, and like jkc said, you can't do that with this provider
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07:05<Dudly>I see.....
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07:05<Dudly>Well, I am happy you guys at least told me the reason why. I looked for weeks for this one
07:06<Dudly>the strange part is,
07:06<jkc>Avoid OpenVZ as a virtualization type.
07:06<jkc>Look for KVM, specifically.
07:06<jkc>Linode, Digital Ocean, Vultr, etc.
07:07<Dudly>I also installed a local debian server to test out , a KVM virtual machine. when I did the same installation for wireguard, it worked fine form first try
07:07<Dudly>I see what you mean
07:08<jkc>With OpenVZ, you don't have an actual kernel to work with. It just fakes it.
07:08<jkc>With KVM, you have an ACTUAL kernel that you're running, and you can work with it like a native system.
07:08<Dudly>Do you have any affordable suggestions? I am just a hobbyist and can't afford dedicated servers as a monthly payment
07:08<ham5urg>My laptop is behaving weird. The machine boots through EFI into GRUB and further to the Linux kernel. But then, when it should load the initrd, nothing... the harddisk (nvme ssd) is not there. I booted with some USB-stick to see what is going on, and also, no HD, no PCI-device. I restarted into EFI and did some HD health-checks, all passed (DST short, SMART health) and a PCIe test. Everzthing is fine. I bought a
07:08<ham5urg>new HD, the same result. I resetted EFI, still the same result. I tried a WINDOWS-iso (oh lord), booting from USB. The same result, no HD available. My question is, how can EFI and GRUB show the HD but the Linux kernel can't?
07:08<jkc>Linode, DigitalOcean, Vultr, etc.
07:08<jkc>Dudly: And they're actually cheaper than Hostinger.
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07:09<jkc>What specs is your existing server?
07:09<Dudly>jkc, do you mean the vps specs? or the KVM local one i tried out?
07:10<jkc>CPU, RAM, Storage? Of the VPS you have now.
07:10<Dudly>very poor, butIt was enough to do the job.
07:10<jkc>I'm not seeing any numbers.
07:10<ansgar>jkc: But still more expensive than Hetzner.
07:10<Dudly>:CPU Cores 1
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07:11<Dudly>cpu: 2.4Ghz
07:11<Dudly>harddrive: 20Gb
07:11<jkc>ansgar: I don't really care. I have no experience with Hetzner, so I personally won't recommend them by name.
07:11<Dudly>ethernet: 1000Gb
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07:12<crawler>Dudly you can get that with 512MB RAM at Amazon AWS for 3.5USD/month
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07:12<jkc>You can get it for nothing under AWS free tier.
07:13<Dudly> I was blind for long
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07:13<jkc>t2.micro, 1 core, 1 GB RAM. You can allocate 30GB of standard storage.
07:13<jkc>That falls under free tier usage.
07:14<Dudly>But I learned that free is usually expensive in terms of security and privacy, how do you think about it jkc?
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07:15<jkc>Overly sweeping statement.
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07:15<jkc>That statement is an overgeneralization.
07:15<jkc>In the context of AWS, they make enough money that they can easily offer people a small VM and some storage and not worry about the cost.
07:15<Dudly>well, I mean the goal is a vpn server, I just want to use a anonymous vpn server, and all detail stay with me
07:16<jkc>You gave Hostinger all of your info, how is another provider going to be different?
07:16<Dudly>Did I?
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07:16<jkc>Did you pay them?
07:16<jkc>Or sign up for service?
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07:17<Dudly>Yes, I payed them, but not by general banking
07:17<jkc>And you can't do what you want with it.
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07:17<jkc>Anyway, I'm not here to get into these sorts of nonsensical discussions.
07:18<Dudly>nonsensical, ?
07:18<jkc>You're welcome to do your own research, at least five good providers have been mentioned.
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07:18<Dudly>Well, i want to thank you jkc, for the important insight you gave me
07:18<Dudly>I would have kept looking for my own tail, like a doggy in cartoons
07:18<jkc>Dudly: Yes. I'm pro-privacy just like most anyone else here, but there's a point where that comes up against reality: No one cares about me. Will I give my personal information to a platform that makes their money selling personal info? No.
07:19<jkc>Will I give my name, address, and billing information to a platform that makes money selling me computing resources? Sure. They're not even remotely close in terms of privacy compromises.
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07:20<Dudly>jkc; So you mean, they are not in the data selling business, so they don't care?
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07:21<jkc>In a sense. I use Linode, for example, among other platforms. They don't care who I am. They are selling computing resources. They care about 1. getting paid for the resources that I use, 2. me not doing something illegal on their platform, and 3. not using their platform in a way that negatively affects others on their platform.
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07:22<jkc>They have no use for my personal information except, primarily, to deal with #1 and #2 in that list. Get their money, and report me to law enforcement if I'm doing something blatantly illegal.
07:23<Dudly>jkc, i am sorry for my poor questions, The options dazzle me a bit. Could you repeat one more time which option mentioned you think is best?
07:23<jkc>In terms of privacy, I consider that very low risk.
07:23<jkc>Dudly: PERSONALLY, I use Linode. They've been around for ages and have always been good to me in terms of quality of service and quality of support.
07:23<Dudly>thank you!
07:24<jkc>Dudly: If you're really curious, go to #linode here on oftc.
07:24<crawler>and they have a lovely community support
07:24<jkc>It's their official channel.
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07:24<Dudly>I retained hope for my project!
07:24<Dudly>sounds good
07:25<Dudly>Then I will leave you for now and thank you for this very useful help, jkc is there any direct way to contact you in future? or are you always on this channel?
07:26<jkc>It's better to think of this place as a community and not focus overmuch on single members.
07:26<jkc>Sure, I'm here, but that doesn't mean I'm paying attention.
07:26<Dudly>Well, I think I am helped much already.
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07:32<jkc>Best of luck.
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07:43<vv221>I just noticed that pavucontrol has no hard dependency on pulseaudio, only a Recommends. Has it really a use case without pulseaudio?
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07:47<binglis>hope someone can help me this is the first time i have used this software
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07:48<binglis>i updated my buster server to bullseye server on friday. the update went fine and everything worked
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07:48<binglis>yesterday openssl got updated and now my access tables stored on a samba file sytem is not working properly
07:50<binglis>there is 4 desktops talking the shared folder and worked perfectly if somone updated a record it was updated for all to see. After the update openssl then a new record would not show on another desktop
07:52<binglis>also if a field in a record is updated you have to reload the whold database before this is seen on other desktops. This was all tested when updated to bullseye and it all worked fine but now it doesnt. any help or suggestions would be appreciated
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07:54<another>vv221: possibly because it does not depend on any libraries from pulse. btw you can also use it with pipewire
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07:58<vv221>Thanks another, if it can work with pipewire it makes more sense.
07:58<binglis>is there anyone that can help me in anyway. or at least someone acknowlegde my problem
07:58<vv221>Still a bit surprising in this case that is has not a Depends: pulseaudio | pipewire
07:59<mosasaur>binglis: maybe use sshfs for now, until you figure it out
07:59<vv221>binglis, I can acknowlegde your issue, but helping you is out of my skillset, I don’t use either access nor samba.
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08:01<binglis>thanks for responding. will look into sshfs as this needs addressed. Can you backtrack and take the openssl update and revert to the previous installation
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08:03<jm_>binglis: you can, see
08:04<jm_>or even simpler if you still have it in /var/cache/apt/archives
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08:06<vv221>I’m a bit surprised about this, I see no openssl update for Bullseye yesterday. Or is it provided through bullseye-security?
08:06<binglis>just looked into archives empty
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08:07<jm_>which exact package and version?
08:07<binglis>2021-08-24 21:55:02 status half-installed openssl:amd64 1.1.1k-1
08:07<binglis>2021-08-24 21:55:03 status unpacked openssl:amd64 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1
08:07<binglis>2021-08-24 21:55:03 startup packages configure
08:07<binglis>2021-08-24 21:55:03 configure openssl:amd64 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1 <none>
08:07<binglis>2021-08-24 21:55:03 status unpacked openssl:amd64 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1
08:07<binglis>2021-08-24 21:55:03 status half-configured openssl:amd64 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1
08:07<binglis>2021-08-24 21:55:03 status installed openssl:amd64 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1
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08:07<vv221>Ah, forget what I wrote, I indeed missed the 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1 update.
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08:08<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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08:10<binglis>i ran tail -f /var/log/dpkg.log did you get the version
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08:11<jm_>yes, too many times :)
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08:11<binglis>so i see sorry just trying to get fix for this
08:11<binglis>first time on this and will learn
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08:11<jm_>well look if the older version is on mirrors and fetch it from there and install it
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08:12<jm_>easier than using snapshots for just one package
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08:12<binglis>why did this happen and why was it allowed to happen
08:14<binglis>ok can you help me get the older version and will it be ok to install over the newer version
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08:15<jkc>Why did what happen and what was what allowed to happen?
08:16<jm_>go here, copy mirror URL, remove the package file from it, you'll get a directory listing, pick the right one, i.e. for me
08:17<jm_>I also wonder if this is indeed the issue
08:18<Ruhangiz>dm_ and themill: thanks for the hint with the wrong pinnings , they were remnants of my old former constellation as testing/ unstable. Deleting them showed my near to 400 upgradable packages...
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08:23<binglis>thanks jm i have downloaded the openssl i need to go down and install it.
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08:27<binglis>the install openssl is 1.1.1k-1+deb11ul. why was this installed in the first place
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08:28<binglis>and if i reinstall the one i have downloaded will it overwrite this one and all the dependancies work
08:29<avrono>Hi, looking for some help with DNS resolution over VPN moving from Buster to Bullseye
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08:31<avrono>VPN worked in Buster, not after upgrade to Bullseye. Have enabled ResolvConf and added Global DNS entry, does not seem to help.
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08:32<jm_>binglis: you should see that in the log, i.e. if anything else was installed along with openssl package
08:33<crawler>avrono OpenVPN?
08:34<avrono>crawler yes
08:35<avrono>I added the DNS to resolv.conf and also disabled DNS in NetworkManager
08:35<avrono>Keeps wanting to use my default gateway
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08:35<binglis>libc-bin:amd64 2.31-13 was also installed
08:36<jm_>I use openvpn and lookups work fine, but my setup is more advanced, since I use split dns with the help of dnsmasq
08:36<jm_>binglis: that one I would keep
08:37<binglis>could this issue be the cause that I manually install iptables and I should maybe look at another way to install iptables
08:37<avrono>Were there any major changes between 10 and 11 w.r.t Networking - did not see any in release notes
08:38<crawler>avrono I didn't deploy that in bullseye yet, but I am sure it is related to /etc/openvpn/update-resolv-conf
08:39<crawler>that's all I know for now
08:40<jm_>binglis: as long as firewall rules are not blocking things, then no
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08:47<binglis>ok just trying to work out why this has happend. the firewall has been working pefectly now for a number of years. I have 2 network cards and was previously using ubuntu but when they firwall rules changed and i had to revert back to debian because it was still using iptables. Now the same problems are happening with this openssl upgrade. I am thinking maybe i need to readdress this issue
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08:53<binglis>jm_ have you any thoughts on how to get this sorted for me
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08:58<jm_>binglis: not really, I would first try to figure out what the issue really is, is it communication? does remote side give any clues? can you try the same thing manually?
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09:13<binglis>thanks jm_ for your time. I dont really know why this has happend and why. All I did was built a file server for my client. The only issue is with the 4 desktops talking to shared samba file that stores access tables. It has been working and now there is some real issues. A real headache but need to look at all the options available. lots of reading.
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09:15<jm_>binglis: well try it locally with smbclient, or from another linux, see what happens
09:16<jm_>binglis: also don't forget to read files in /usr/share/doc/samba* if there's anything about major changes etc.
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09:28<tepozoa>binglis: did you restart a bunch of stuff after the openssl upgrade? A /lot/ of apps are linked to libcrypto/libssl - even systemd! - so you have a situation where running daemons /might/ be using the old openssl, and new apps launched load the new openssl libraries (like, maybe, Samba child processes?) use: lsof | egrep "lib(crypto|ssl)" | grep DEL
09:29<tepozoa>anything that has DEL in there needs that daemon restarted to load up the new openssl libs
09:30<tepozoa>(for systemd, you use the special method of systemctl daemon-reload, not a service unit/script)
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09:31<jm_>was libssl even updated? I don't see it on pdo
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09:33<tepozoa>jm_: I was going by the posted logs above they shared, I don't see a new changelog entry either
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09:34<tepozoa>U20 LTS upgraded their openssl so it's just on my radar right now, I have to run stuff besides Debian
09:35<tepozoa>(there's a new CVE out for it)
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09:36<tepozoa> CVE-2021-3712 and CVE-2021-3711
09:36<tjcarter>tepozoa: Sadly it's much easier for distributions to base their stuff on a released version of Ubuntu than it is an unreleased version of Debian.
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09:36<Booda>both libssl and openssl got an update 2 days ago
09:36*tepozoa nods
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09:36<tjcarter>It was one too many Ubuntuisms that brought me back to a pure Debian from Mint.
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09:37<Booda>what went wrong with mint?
09:37<tjcarter>Booda: Nothing went wrong with _Mint_.
09:37<tepozoa>Sometimes the choices are not great, in my case it's $job who's using proprietary 3rd party vendor software
09:37<Booda>imint is what canonicals ubuntu is meant to be but isnt
09:37<tjcarter>Well, the Mint 20.2 upgrade had some hiccups
09:38<Booda>mint does like to eat the disk tho
09:38<tjcarter>Mint even undoes some of the more egregious Ubuntuisms
09:38<tepozoa>tjcarter: I run all Debian servers for personal, try to balance out the karma :)
09:38<Booda>snapd disabled by default is nice with mint
09:39<tepozoa>it's not hard to work around in U20
09:39<tjcarter>Firefox is snap only in Ubuntu 20.04
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09:39*tepozoa looks at his running Firefox on U20 which is not a snap and goes "wat?"
09:39<tjcarter>I consider snap and the effort to force people to use it to be kind of unethical
09:40<Booda>of course
09:40<tjcarter>Are you sure? The Debian package installs a snap
09:40<tepozoa>I have snap /uninstalled/ on U20. Chrome is a snap, so I'm using Google's upstream repo instead for that. FF is not a snap
09:40<Booda>Command 'snap' not found, but can be installed with:
09:40<Booda>sudo apt install snapd
09:41<tjcarter>I sit corrected then
09:41<tjcarter>It's late here, almost 7am
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09:42<tepozoa> quick look
09:42<tjcarter>snap introduces Canonical as a single lord and dictator over who is and who is not allowed to be a Linux developer. So … no, won't use it, won't recommend it, want it to die.
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09:43<Booda>Canonical is essential for the development of mint xD
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09:43<tjcarter>That's what ultimately caused me to stop using Mint.
09:43<tepozoa>I am in agreement :) disabling snap and not using it is a must-have, not a nice-to-have
09:43<tepozoa>can we hate on netplan in the same session and get all our anger out? :)
09:44<tjcarter>There is LMDE of course, but LMDE doesn't try to track anything but stable, and at this point oldstable.
09:44<Booda>i found applications like bashtop can only be installed with snap, but go to github and compile it u can avoid snap
09:44<tjcarter>And with Debian … I'm a little more leery of the potential for frankendebians
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09:45<naicnelee>I use deepin
09:46<tjcarter>After seeing what "a couple little packages" from deb-multimedia did to my system *shudder* (Folks, run AWAY from that repo. Frankendebian _cannot_ be supported by anyone.)
09:46<mason>GNU Stow is my preferred way to deal with stuff not packaged properly.
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09:47<Booda>has gnu given up on gnuice cat, hasnt had an update for some time
09:47<tjcarter>It took me, a ~24 year Debian veteran, about three hours to successfully extricate my system from deb-multimedia once I realized just how much of my system it replaced with epoched packages.
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09:48<tjcarter>Most people would be reinstalling if they tried to do it. It is not fun.
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09:55<vv221>tjcarter, on several support forums for Debian we regularly have to debug issues related with the deb-multimedia repos. We highly discourage its use since several years already.
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10:14<sirmanuel>HI everyone, can somebosy help me qith this? When I try to use ffmpeg to encode a video with libx264 and audio acc it says me Unknow encoder acc but when I open the video, it sounds normally, so, what happend here?
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10:35<Hydr0p0nX>sirmanuel, are you sure it's not aac ?
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11:12<MarkTevanian>Hello evryone, do you know if DaVinci Resolve would fully work in Debian? I have a discrete graphics nvidia chip
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11:17<trench>MarkTevanian: try a live cd?
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11:24<petn-randall>MarkTevanian: Depends on what requirements they have for Linux, I'd check their website.
11:24<petn-randall>(I didn't find any requirements listed there on a quick search)
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11:32<MarkTevanian>thanks guys I will do some research
11:33<Izty>Hello, how can I get the default configuration file of a package? I edited /etc/postfix/ and /etc/opendkim.conf myself and I'd like to see how it was before
11:34<Izty>I edited those years ago and I'd like to see the default file to get closer to it if possible
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11:38<petn-randall>Izty: IIRC for postfix there's no "default", as you get debconf questions upon installation that will set a few things.
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11:42<sney>Izty: look in /usr/share/postfix, package default configs come from there. but there is no opendkim.conf
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11:53<Izty>petn-randall: Ok I see, thanks
11:54<Izty>sney: petn-randall: Maybe I could get the default opendkim.conf from debian's repo directly?
11:54<Izty>Is that possible?
11:54<dpkg>You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>.
11:54<petn-randall>Izty: It's possible to get the "default" with this. ^^^
11:55<petn-randall>Izty: Just make sure to back it up first.
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11:57<somiaj>Izty: it can vary from package to package, some use scripts to help set up defaults, others provide a copy in the package. Though there are vaious conf options you can use to help get the defaults back as petn-randall pointed out.
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12:00<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, is that recommended using zfs in a debian required for database server, instead of native file systems for Linux Distros ? If answer is 'no', I'll provide xfs instead.
12:02<somiaj>no file system is required for a database server (outside of it is a *nix file system)
12:02<bremner>ext4 works fine for postgres
12:03<bremner>if you are installing something weird like Oracle, ask them
12:03<somiaj>Some file systems provide features for certain use cases, but a lot is up to the user what they prefer. I personally suggest ext? since it is the linux default and well tested unless you have a use case that needs another filesystem.
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12:03<r4fkramer>Hi somiaj, thanksk for help
12:03<somiaj>but just using another file system because someone says it is better to me is not a valid reason, ext4 will work just fine.
12:04<bremner>I think filesystems fall in the "if you have to ask, stick to the defaults" category
12:04<vv221>I trust Debian choices on this front: I’m staying with ext4 as long as it is the default.
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12:05<vv221>bremner, I would say *all* computing-related choices fall into this category ;)
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12:05<bremner>vv221: great, let's close the channel!
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12:06<vv221>​/topic Stick to the defaults!
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12:09<somiaj>but I don't wanna run gnome...*hides*
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12:12<bremner>I don't make the rules.
12:13<bremner>so, to return to sortof on-topic: most people will notice a change of DE/wm, but not a change of filesystem
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12:16<mason>bremner: I'd be sad that my snapshot migration scripts stopped working. :(
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12:19<r4fkramer>No bremner, It's going to be used mariadb for its purpose, not oracle.
12:21<bremner>mason: "most"
12:21<bremner>I'm not talking about "veteran unix admins" here
12:21<mason>bremner: Ooh, that's a politically loaded label.
12:21<bremner>no wai!?!
12:21<mason>I prefer "ancient silverback" or just "greybeard".
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12:24*tepozoa snorts
12:25<peb>su: Authentication failed
12:25<gateway2000>This incident will be reported
12:25<tepozoa>r4fkramer: both ext4 and xfs work well for a MariaDB/MySQL database store, in the most recent kernels the people who do benchmarks say ext4 tuning has reached the performance of xfs in the general mixed-use case
12:26<r4fkramer>somiaj, that is not my case here: "just using another file system because someone says it is better to me". In this case, you were wrong as to the reason for my question
12:26<peb>gateway2000: I think you compiled some bits of sudo in your su
12:26<r4fkramer>If that were the case, it would be a simplistic and superficial decision, without comparative research, without study, without specific readings to try to determine the characteristics of each file system, which is not the case...
12:27<r4fkramer>I'm asking here to get more technical references, for I believe a lot in experienced debian users. But, surely I'm going to develop more deeply this research.
12:27<tepozoa>r4fkramer: I would suggest learning about InnoDB (the actual data engine) and how it can be performance tuned to use the DEADLINE type disk schedulers (they're now called "mq" - multiqueue - in the latest kernels)
12:28<tepozoa>basically, MariaDB/MySQL attempt to reduce disk writes by using large memory pools (great, cool) bit they /still/ have to do intense writes to disk. There are a lot of internal tuning options to optimize how they write
12:28<mason>r4fkramer: A point in favour of defaults is that they get run the most and thus get the most exposure and eyes.
12:29<r4fkramer>Fine tepozoa, that's important this benchmark comparing ext4 and xfs. I tend to choose one of them, but I was in doubt about using xfs, because if requires dkms module, and it doesn't run natively in the linux kernel as ext4 or xfs do
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12:30<tepozoa>yes (you meant zfs) - zfs is "a whole new thing"
12:30<tepozoa>stick with ext4 or xfs
12:30<tepozoa>and read everything Percona writes and learn from them:
12:30<mason>r4fkramer: Ooh. I missed the typo. You don't have to use DKMS to use ZFS. I hate the idea myself. You can compile modules and serve them up from a local repo and that feels much more controlled.
12:31<r4fkramer>Fine mason, I prefer default options too. According somiaj and tepozoa, ext4 should be a very believable choice for that.
12:31<tepozoa>it is. I work at $job, it's used on (probably thousands) of DB servers. it works just fine.
12:32<mason>r4fkramer: Yeah, I've used it for a long time quite happily. The confounding factor is the size of storage and how you guarantee correctness and recover from errors and so forth.
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12:32<r4fkramer>oh, vv221 has the same point of view about ext4 choice. Thank you for answering me :)
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12:35<r4fkramer>I see bremner. At first I thought about it, for if I have so doubts about this theme, better staying using ext4 or another native fs in debian. I like the idea of using zfs, but it runs externally to the kernel, which causes me some insecurity, also because I am still new to advanced file system configurations.
12:35<mason>r4fkramer: Best to play with it on a non-critical pool to get used to it, certainly.
12:36<r4fkramer>mason, no need to use dkms for zfs ?
12:36<mason>r4fkramer: No, you can just build kmod packages.
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12:37<mason>That said, that'd be a bit of devotion to the project. It'd probably be easier to just use the DKMS to get experience with *running* ZFS before you dive into a more comfortable infrastructure for generating modules.
12:37<r4fkramer>Please mason (and first of all, thanks for answering me :), is that a new strategy for installing and configuring zfs on linux ? Or already known technical procedure ?
12:37<mason>The experience will have some spillover benefit if you ever run BtrFS since they're both somewhat similar concepts.
12:38<mason>r4fkramer: been around for a while:
12:39<mason>r4fkramer: The only interesting bit is if you want to make a metapackage so you hold back new kernels until you've built the filesystem modules for them. And that's not particularly difficult, as it turns out.
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12:41<r4fkramer>At first I thought about btrfs too. But always consider if it's the best way, since most debian users like somiaj, teopozoa bremner and official debian documentation tend to recommend native options. That's why I consider now using 'ext4' or 'xfs'.
12:41<r4fkramer>mason, and I had some troubles using btrfs here, but never experienced any issue using ext4 or xfs
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12:42<r4fkramer>mason, thank you very much for link :)
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12:42<mason>r4fkramer: BtrFS is still under heavy development and suffers from having hit the upstream kernel before it was ready. My contention is that this slows development as comparitively fewer people are willing to chase the bleeding edge kernel for fixes, so fewer people are going to run it overall, which means slower bug reporting, etc.
12:43<mason>For other code this might be unproblematic, but filesystems *need* to be boring.
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12:45<enrico>Hello. Does anyone have experience of upgrading to bullseye on a gandi VPS? Gandi doesn't have a repo for its custom packages for bullseye, and kernel upgrades break because the old scripts can't decompress new kernel images
12:46<r4fkramer>I see mason, better they be boring, instead of be unstable and risky for use in debian.
12:46<mason>enrico: Their support folks should be able to tell you if it's safe or not. When in doubt, wait.
12:46<r4fkramer>I just have to thank somiaj, bremner, vv221, mason and tepozoa for assistance . Thank you very much for attention and Great Support!
12:46<mason>r4fkramer: Fedora boosting its use should end up being useful for BtrFS, and Fedora tracks the bleeding edge anyway, so they're in a good position to do it.
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12:47<vv221>enrico, if you speak French I would suggest asking about this in #debian-fr or #debian-facile, there might be more Gandi customers there.
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12:47<vv221>(both on OFTC network)
12:48<enrico>mason, vv221: thanks
12:48<sney>presumably, a specialized vps that requires its own custom packages will eventually provide them for bullseye. maybe around 11.1
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12:50<r4fkramer>Fine mason, but in my case, the question is: I like and always prefer debian instead of any other Distro Linux :)
12:50<r4fkramer>To use Fedora, I would have to devote more time to studying its peculiarities, the fact that it is a Distro .rpm, and I really enjoy the experience I have had so far using apt, aptitude and dpkg.
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12:50<r4fkramer>Anyway, I really like Debian a lot, and in the near future, I'll like it even more, because I'll be able to study it more deeply.
12:50<mason>r4fkramer: I'm not recommending it. Just saying that what they're doing might make BtrFS more viable everywhere faster.
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12:51<r4fkramer>Fine, I understood you better now. Thank you for information :)
12:52<r4fkramer>Please mason, just for curiosity: what is your choice for file system in debian ? Since it seems you use it for a long time....
12:52<mason>r4fkramer: ZFS
12:53<mason>Specifically 2.0.5, since I avoid the bleeding edge there as I do elsewhere.
12:53<r4fkramer>ZFS ?
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12:54<r4fkramer>I see. bleeding edge has its disadvantages
12:55<r4fkramer>Just for curiosity again: why not 'btrfs' instead of zfs ?
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12:56<mason>r4fkramer: I don't feel it's reliable enough.
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12:58<Izty>somiaj: Ok, thanks for explaining :)
12:58<r4fkramer>I had the same impression here some time ago. After some comments by somiaj, I gave up it. Next Debian installations for desktop will be ext4
12:58<mason>Plus, ZFS is cross-platform, and I like that. If you want advice, run everything and you'll find things to like and dislike about everything, and then you too can be a wise old turtle on IRC channels.
12:58<Izty>petn-randall: Ok, thanks!
12:59<Izty>petn-randall: If Postfix doesn't provide a default config, how am I supposed to keep my config up to date? I try to be as close as possible to the default config (dropping old ciphers and such)
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13:00<tepozoa>r4fkramer: both zfs and btrfs have a learning curve associated with them (not bad, they are just complex designs). Per mason's comment above, I would first stick to learning them on secondary disk space before comitting to them as your boot or "real" data drives. Unlike a traditional simple filesystem, they have whole new ways of thinking
13:01<r4fkramer>mason, I will consider this experience you have using zfs in debian also. I really need more time to be able to become a wise old turtle on the IRC channels. But that's what I still aim to achieve - if I'm alive by then, of course.
13:01<tepozoa> <- example new article of how they're /still/ figuring out parts of btrfs to this day
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13:03<r4fkramer>Fine tepozoa, that is why I asked about zfs in the beginning of our conversation here. yes, in fact, mason suggestion is interesting to be applied in tests. I will install some debian variants in virtual machine for this purpose.
13:03<tepozoa>+1 :)
13:03<r4fkramer>I basically use virt-manager installed in debian buster for that. Thank you again for attention and Great Support, mason and tepozoa :)
13:04<mason>r4fkramer: If you *do* get into ZFS and you stick with libvirt, I find that zvols are great backing store for VMs, and you can do tricky things like stuffing config details into zvol dataset properties so that you can ship around your storage efficiently and then reconstitute VMs with correct configs based on what came with the storage.
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13:05<mason>I get close-to-live VM migration this way, without shared storage. (Close-to-live meaning a downtime in seconds.)
13:06<cc>do iptables rules still work on stable (11)?
13:08<cc>for example, both `iptables -S` and `nft list ruleset` show some rules
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13:08<cc>do both sets work?
13:08<jkc>cc: Yes, but they're automatically translated to nftables rules anyway.
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13:40<FLD>bullseyes krunner keeps spamming "file:///usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/qml/org/kde/plasma/components/Highlight.qml:34:5: QML Connections: Implicitly defined onFoo properties in Connections are deprecated. Use this syntax instead: function onFoo(<arguments>) { ... }" every time i write a character in the krunner box. whats up with that?
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13:41<FLD>also getting "file:///usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/qml/QtQuick/Controls/Styles/Plasma/ToolButtonStyle.qml:196:13: QML Connections: Implicitly defined onFoo properties in Connections are deprecated. Use this syntax instead: function onFoo(<arguments>) { ... }" every time
13:42<sney>odd, that doesn't happen here. is this a new install or did you upgrade from previous debian version(s)?
13:42<FLD>just upgraded from buster and rebooted
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13:43<sney>are you using a custom plasma theme?
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13:45<FLD>no i'm using Breeze
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13:46<sney>same here, can't get that to show up. test it with a new user profile
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13:56<FLD>well i fixed the Highlight.qml:34:5 and restarted krunner and that warning went away now
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13:58<FLD>but still if i run "systemsettings" via krunner i get these warnings:
13:59<FLD>looks like a bunch of the qml assets are deprecated
13:59<FLD>the one i fixed was from 2011
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14:01<Klaus_Dieter>hello world
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14:04<Klaus_Dieter>I am running oldstable and I am hoping to upgrade it to the current stable that was released a few day ago. I have a / partition of 25gb which is almost full and I amtrying to recover a bit of space by purging unused packages. One of those happens to be win32 and the i386 wine libs which I have not used in ages. Now when I do apt purge wine32, apt recommends removing apt and most of the existing
14:04<Klaus_Dieter>system and is querying whether it really should do that. Of course it shouldn't. So something is broken. How can I find out why apt purge wine32 is leading to apt trying to remove itself?
14:04<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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14:05<mason>That's pleasingly complete.
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14:07<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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14:12<vv221>Klaus_Dieter, I suspect the apt warning is about libc6:i386 and a couple other *:i386 packages.
14:12<vv221>If this is the case, and you double-checked (then triple-checked) that only i386 packages are going to be removed, you can disregard the warning and procede with the removal.
14:13<vv221>If any amd64 package is part of the warning, do *not* disregard it, there is probably another issue at hand.
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14:14<vv221>(I missed the part about removing apt itself, so it is probably not the issue I had in mind about i386 "Essential: yes" packages)
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14:21<debacle>My bind9 does not start anymore (Debian 11, after upgrade from Debian 10). Where can I find error messages? Even `sudo named -u bind` is totally silent. TIA!
14:22<somiaj>use systemctl status bind, and journalct -u bind.service
14:22<somiaj>assuming the service name is bind, adjust as appropriate
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14:23<debacle>somiaj Of course, I already did both :-)
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14:23<tepozoa>Klaus_Dieter: in general here's a quick cheatsheet: - your details will vary so be cconfident in the first step (look before you leap!) and if you want, in the second step name the packages manually instead of trusting the system
14:23<debacle>somiaj journalctl says "no entries"
14:23<somiaj>do yo uhave the service name correct? try tab complete on bind<tab>
14:24<jhutchins>Is it bind or bind9?
14:25<debacle>somiaj and systemctl status says not much, mainly named.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
14:25<cOOl>hello, im building my own distro, im already working on it for 1 year. the distro is debian based, but im already modifying debian base packages. so its time to generate a own repository. to start and tweak around i will pull or clone the debian repositories to my server. and use it in my sources - in fact what is the best way to do that?
14:25<debacle>bind9.service is the correct name, I hope somiaj jhutchins
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14:26<debacle>bind9.service is an alias for named.service
14:27<debacle>OK, that explains: journalctl does not accepts aliases?
14:27<mason>debacle: When in doubt, dpkg -L and see what was put on your disk.
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14:28<mason>debacle: After a failed start, maybe 'journalctl -xe' regardless of name.
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14:29<mason>debacle: And if syslog isn't used by default, that's probably worth a bug report.
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14:34<jhutchins>!own repo
14:34<dpkg>To feed your own packages into apt, you need to create a repository with a Packages file that lists the packages. If you only have a few packages and don't have very sophisticated requirements, you can use <dpkg-scanpackages>. If you want to be able add/remove packages using regular Debian tools like dput then try <reprepro> or mini-dinstall. See
14:34<jhutchins>!local repository
14:34<dpkg><jelly> dirty local repo: put all *.deb in a separate directory, say, /mnt/repo. cd /mnt/repo && dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip -9c > Packages.gz, then add "deb file:/mnt/repo ./" to sources.list, run apt-get update
14:35<debacle>mason journalctl -xe was the first thing I tried, but while there was a lot of output, it was in no way helpful - journalctl -u named.service is probably much better to actually find the error
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14:37<mason>debacle: If -xe doesn't show it then the errors you're looking for aren't there. Maybe run it through strace and see what's happening.
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14:41<debacle>mason, yes strace might help me here: "could not configure root hints from '/usr/share/dns/root.hints': permission denied" - while I can read the file as unprivileged user. Strange ;-)
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14:45<sarnold>debacle: namei -l '/usr/share/dns/root.hints' may help; searching dmesg or audit logs for apparmor or selinux or smack or tomoyo denials may help
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14:48<cOOl>jhutchins thx, i willtake a look at it
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14:48<cOOl>jhutchins: thx, i willtake a look at it
14:48<jhutchins>I don't run bind any more, doesn't it write it's own log?
14:48<jhutchins>cOOl: Good luck.
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14:49<cOOl>at moment i host the files in chroot /opt while compiling and install them with apt in hook files,, but its time to pull them from the net, thx dude
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14:55<cOOl>jhutchins: compiling ;) after that i will take a look -> but i need no local repo -> it should be a full repo and public.. what i want is first a straight copy of the whole debian repo..
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15:05<debacle>sarnold I really should use apparmor or another security frameworks. But I don't :-( so that's not the error here. At least not inside the systemd-nspawn container, where bind9 is running. But apparmor is installed on the host of the container...
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15:05<debacle>jhutchins It looks like its everything in the journal now.
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15:08<Klaus_Dieter>so this is the apt output including cli: and this is apt-cache-policy:
15:08<allison>apt has an error "no Release file"
15:09<debacle>sarnold But it looks like such a problem - after I copied the hint files to /etc/bind/something and changed the config accordingly, it works now.
15:11<debacle>sarnold Thanks for namei! I didn't know it and always checked path components manually.
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15:13<sarnold>debacle: hah yeah namei -l saves me *lots* of time :)
15:14<tepozoa>allison: are you upgrading from Buster to Bullseye, and is the error about the "security" repository?
15:14<Klaus_Dieter>tepozoa: vv221: thank you for your guidance. I identified many i386 packages and was able to remove them as tehre were no amd64 packages in the list.
15:15<tepozoa>nice! :)
15:15<sarnold>Klaus_Dieter: wow, that 'lets remove apt' .. pretty dangerous
15:15<tepozoa>how much space did you clear up, is it enough to plan the upgrade?
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15:17<Klaus_Dieter>sarnold: no this one.... Something seems odd with this system... this used to be Lenny that has been upgraded continually and over time it may have accumulated the occasional cruft... and it *might* not always have been treated with care :-D
15:17<sarnold>Klaus_Dieter: hah, that makes sense
15:17<Klaus_Dieter>apt remove wine32 tried to remove apt ;) and there I stopped :)
15:17<gothenburg>apt install windows10
15:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 1029] by debhelper
15:18<Klaus_Dieter>I have to say though. It is very impressive that it is even possible to upgrade an existing system for a decade
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15:18<vv221>Klaus_Dieter, I think the issue is with trying to mix install/removals and upgrade.
15:19<vv221>I would go with the removals first, without the apt sources for the future upgrade.
15:19<vv221>And only once I’m done with the removals, I would add the sources and `apt update`.
15:19<Klaus_Dieter>yeah. There was a time when this system saw (whatever was stable)-backports in its sources.list
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15:20<Mister00X>Hello. I've got a question regarding upgrading form buster to bullseye. I have a buster system at a location with very poor internet connection and I want to speed up the upgrade process by using a bullseye iso as a local repository but I want to avoid burning a DVD. So my question is how do I mount the .iso file and how can I tell apt to use it as repository?
15:20<Klaus_Dieter>I am now pretty much back to vanilla debian but I do need a different docekr than what was in buster - have not checked yet if I can get rid of that and use the vanilla one
15:20<vv221>Despite the scary apt output, this does not look at all like some broken not-upgradeable system, so by doing things in the right order you should be able to end up with a clean Debian stable.
15:20<Klaus_Dieter>so this is exactly what I am doing: first remove what seems to be junk, then dist-upgrade and cross fingers
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15:21<Klaus_Dieter>with disabled sources-list of course.... otherwise some package repo maintainer will wreak havoc all over the place on my system ;)
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15:22<sarnold>Mister00X: mount -o loop /path/to/foo.iso /path/to/mount/point I think will do the trick; then you add in a file:/// entry to your sources.list, I think. (I've not actually tried this myself)
15:22<sarnold>vv221: ending up without apt might be awkward to fix
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15:22<Klaus_Dieter>sarnold: I'd probably boot into a live system and just copy the binary from there ;)
15:22<vv221>sarnold, I already helped an Ubuntu user who uninstalled apt ;P
15:22<Klaus_Dieter>and use chroot to fix it
15:23<Klaus_Dieter>might require a bit of fiddling with ld and copying libs
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15:23<Klaus_Dieter>it should be ok - albeit... tedious.
15:23<Mister00X>sarnold: thanks
15:23<sarnold>vv221: nice, thanks :) that's not one most beginners should tackle on their own
15:23<vv221>Klaus_Dieter, an alternative if you want to make sure that apt is not proposed for deletion is to upgrade it first.
15:24<spawacz>Can an executable running as root in chroot do damage?
15:24<vv221>sarnold, most non-beginners would prefer to avoid such situations too ;P
15:24<Klaus_Dieter>yeah I looked at the apt output of that command and it looks almost as scary as the one for the removal :)
15:24<vv221>spawacz, yes.
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15:24<sarnold>spawacz: yup
15:24<Klaus_Dieter>spawacz: yes.
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15:25<vv221>Klaus_Dieter, what is the system version before the upgrade, and the one you are targeting with this upgrade?
15:26<vv221>And are you using i386 packages for anything else than wine32?
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15:27<Klaus_Dieter>I do not think I am using i386 anywhere else. this is buster stable with backports and is going to be bullseye.
15:30<Klaus_Dieter>even if I am using it anywhere else... I guess I will see when it's gone. I just purged 6gb of packages and dist-upgrade is running now. I think I will be in the clear soon.
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15:31<spawacz>Damn, I've got a minimal chroot but it seems DNS resolution does not work inside
15:31<spawacz>what may be the cause?
15:31<Klaus_Dieter>have you checked /etc/resolv.conf?
15:31<Klaus_Dieter>is nslookup working?
15:32<spawacz>copying the file from my host into chroot worked
15:33<spawacz>but the executable in chroot can do damage to host system too?
15:33<spawacz>like read my home?
15:33<Klaus_Dieter>chroot is not exactly a security measure. If you do not intentionally try to break stuff and are careful with bind mounts then you should be ok
15:34<spawacz>i want to run a monero miner on my server
15:34<spawacz>when it's idle 99% of the time
15:34<mason>spawacz: Carbon footprint suggests that it's better not to.
15:34<spawacz>ahh yes
15:34<spawacz>i dont mine on gpu
15:34<Klaus_Dieter>in that case... what mason said ;)
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15:35<Klaus_Dieter>if you do find yourself in the position of having space cpu cycles and you want to do something with it... why not look at the worldcommunitygrid and find a project you are willing to donate it to?
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15:36<Klaus_Dieter>at least you will not just create hashes on garbage data but help make an impact on real projects
15:36<Klaus_Dieter><advertisement mode off>
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15:38<Klaus_Dieter>hm... I still wonder why I am using 24GB of data for my rootfs. it seems like a lot.
15:39<sarnold>Klaus_Dieter: ncdu is handy for finding what's eating your space, assuming the files are still in the filesystem
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15:42<Klaus_Dieter>the files are in the system... but they are scattered in libs and usr and so on... so it must be packages having installed them
15:42<Klaus_Dieter>of it must be files not belonging to any current packages
15:42<spawacz>you can fish the big files with "du", right?
15:43<spawacz>then ask dpkg where it came fro
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15:43<Klaus_Dieter>I have done the first step but not the second
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15:44<Klaus_Dieter>maybe I should do a recursive find and have each file checked by dpkg -S... and if there is no package that is installed get rid of it...
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15:45<Klaus_Dieter>something like this... find . -xdev -type f -exec dpkg -S {} \; > packagelist 2>&1
15:48<Klaus_Dieter>thanks for that idea
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15:48<spawacz>!win Klaus_Dieter
15:48<dpkg>Congratulations, Klaus_Dieter! You have won a lifetime supply of spam!
15:49<Klaus_Dieter>it is nothing grep can't handle :)
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15:52<tepozoa>Klaus_Dieter: the pastebin doesn't wrap this well, as with any suggested command put this in your notepad and examine it first:
15:53<Klaus_Dieter>nice one tepozoa
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15:58<tepozoa>it's been awhile since I ran it, my output is showing that the apt cache is a big consumer of crap
15:58<tepozoa>I have 5 versions of linux-firmware and...7? versions of chrome sitting in there
15:59<sarnold>heh that'll add up..
15:59<tepozoa>now I'm wondering why that's happening
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16:01<jhutchins>tepozoa: apt clean?
16:01<tepozoa>mmmm, more like why isn't it auto-cleaning itself
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16:01<tepozoa>checking my system, boss
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16:02<jhutchins>iirc, apt-get doesn't auto-clean.
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16:03<spawacz>why do you call resize and clear in your script?
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16:03<tepozoa>...because I disabled the apt-daily.tomer, that's why
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16:05<tepozoa>spawacz: I have a habit of launching 80x24 and logging in then making my term window bigger. due to SSH jumphosts that doesn't always flow correctly back across the pipe (the bash setwinsize or whatever it's called)
16:06<tepozoa>and now that you mention it, resize is actaully a shell alias instead of the resize from xterm
16:06<spawacz>i dont understand, what does it change?
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16:07<spawacz>are the output lines somehow broken in improper places when you dont do resize?
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16:07<tepozoa>so in your environment, you have a ROWS and COLUMNS setting - have a look for yourself, "set | grep COL" for example
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16:08<tepozoa>a lot of apps will use those to draw their boundries of output
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16:08<spawacz>right. i get it
16:08<spawacz>and why sort -grk 1?
16:08<tepozoa>so if you make your term window larger, but the update to COLUMNS and ROWS doesn't work automatically, you get real funky behaviour
16:08<spawacz>isn't sort -gr sufficient?
16:08<tepozoa>vim and less
16:09<spawacz>since k 1 is default from what i undestand from man
16:09<tepozoa>possibly, it's been too long for me to remember
16:09<tepozoa>wasn't expecting a quiz on my one liner :)
16:09<spawacz>im not quizzing
16:09<spawacz>im curious
16:09<tepozoa>I have years of "learned this recipe, put it in a notepad"
16:09<spawacz>since it looks very cool in action
16:09<spawacz>and why is find ran with nice?
16:10<sarnold>so you can keep using your system without noticing it running :)
16:10<tepozoa>so it doesn't thrash at a high priority - if you can use ionice, it's also good
16:10<sarnold>I thought it was a nice touch
16:10<tepozoa>find is a *beast*
16:10<tepozoa>it gives zero f*cks
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16:11<sarnold>heh, and yet, find is also pretty slow, because it doesn't make the most of modern hardware
16:11<tepozoa>rewrite it in rust, it's the only solution :)
16:11<sarnold>I haven't tried this yet but it should chew through *way* more disk and cpu
16:12<spawacz>what do you mean by saying it does not make most of hardware?
16:12<spawacz>isnt it just traversing the disk?
16:12<spawacz>like, the only way you can do it in C?
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16:13<tepozoa>omg I was jokin, of course 'fd' is written in rust
16:13<tepozoa>life imitates a joke
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16:14<tepozoa>I'm not a programmer, but being aware of how many ways one can write a `sort` routine to optimize for a given use patter is sort of the idea
16:14<tepozoa>yeah you're traversing a filesystem, but how efficient are you at it?
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16:16<spawacz>you mean that it could be parallelized?
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16:16<tepozoa>rsync does tricks too - have a directory with a billion files you want to delete? no problem, just make an empty directory and run `rsync -av ./empty/ ./real/`
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16:16<spawacz>how does that work??
16:16<sarnold>spawacz: drives perform better when you issue multiple instructions at once; and waiting for each instruction to complete, the application read the data, decide to do something with it, issue the next instruction, etc, all takes time
16:16<tepozoa>for whatever magic code reasons, that's hugelt faster than rm and other tools
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16:17<spawacz>so why isn't rm written in this way to make advantage of it?
16:17<sarnold>spawacz: fd will issue a lot of read commands, one for every directory at a level, and keep going and doing other things until the OS and drive(s) get around to reading the data
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16:17*tepozoa shrugs I wasn't even supposed to be here today
16:17<sarnold>tepozoa: rofl
16:17<sarnold>spawacz: because rm is 40-ish years old and making it multi-process away would be a *huge* change
16:19<sarnold>I sort of expected the 'write coreutils in rust' folks to have made their rm multithreaded or multiprocess but I can't see it, if it is
16:20<sarnold>(I'm reading through )
16:20<sarnold>making a parallel find is going to be a thousand times easier than parallel rm, I think :)
16:22<tepozoa>from this morning's chat about btrfs and zfs, it probably depends on the filesystem structure too
16:22<mason>sarnold: That's... a real thing.
16:23<sarnold>yeah, something with a million directies, each with ten files, will probably see far more performance improvement than a filesystem with ten directories and a million files each
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16:23<sarnold>mason: it is! :D
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16:37<crawler>,v tmux
16:37<judd>Package: tmux on amd64 -- stretch: 2.3-4; stretch-backports: 2.8-3~bpo9+1; buster: 2.8-3; buster-backports: 3.1c-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 3.1c-1; bookworm: 3.2a-3; sid: 3.2a-3
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16:54<Sfgds>hi does anyone know how to enable autologin? i've tried editing the systemd getty service by adding the --autologin <myusername> option, however it still prompts me for a password when i reboot the machine. All that changed was that it autofills the login username with my username
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16:54<Sfgds>and i dont have a login manager btw
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16:55<cOOl>Sfgds: what are you missing?
16:56<Sfgds>what do you mean?
16:56<cOOl><Sfgds> and i dont have a login manager btw
16:56<sarnold>Sfgds: maybe unset the password?
16:56<cOOl>i just connected, saw only that message
16:56<Sfgds>oh im trying to enable autologin to the tty
16:57<Sfgds>well i dont wanna remove the password because i still want to be prompted for when i use sudo and what not
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16:57<Sfgds>i only want to disable the tty login because the filesystem is encrypted anyway and i dont wanna be prompted twice for a password when booting up
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16:57<cOOl>what desktop environment are you using
16:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 1021] by debhelper
16:58<Sfgds>none right now
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16:59<cOOl>why dont use a server image
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17:01<jhutchins>cOOl: That's really not a Debian concept. Everything has the same base image, for a server you just install base plus whatever servicces you want.
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17:03<cOOl>in jessy it was like this : for autologin in tty ->
17:03<cOOl>mkdir /etc/systemd/system/getty@tty1.service.d
17:03<cOOl>pico /etc/systemd/system/getty@tty1.service.d/override.conf
17:03<cOOl>content of the file : [Service]
17:03<cOOl>ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty --autologin username --noclear %I 38400 linux
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17:03<Sfgds>yeah i tried doing that
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17:03<Sfgds>but it still prompts me for a password
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17:04<Sfgds>it just autofills the user in the login prompt
17:04<cOOl>oh ok
17:05<cOOl>so you search for a complete auto login as user in tty?
17:05<cOOl>had to understand it first lol :)
17:05<Sfgds>yeah :p
17:05<vv221>Sfgds, I remember doing such autologin a long while ago, I’ll see if I can find how it was done.
17:05<vv221>Keeping in mind that this was pre-systemd, so might no longer be relevant.
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17:06<Sfgds>thanks i appreciate it
17:06<c0rnel1us>I always just use these instructions and change the username -
17:06<sarnold>Sfgds: heh, the arch wiki mentions "If you do not want full automatic login, but also do not want to type your username, you can replace --autologin username with --skip-login --login-options username"
17:06<c0rnel1us>works every time.
17:06<sarnold>Sfgds: it's starting to feel like you've got something else going on..
17:06<cOOl>cornelius: yes ->
17:07<cOOl>dont know if it still works
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17:07<jeremiah_>"Engine URL:
17:07<jeremiah_>Error: The local SSH forwarding port 7690 is already in use. Is there an old SSH tunnel still active"
17:07<jeremiah_>This is the error I get ^^
17:08<jeremiah_>There is an old ssh tunnel active however.
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17:10<jeremiah>So, I guess the answer is to find the tunnel and kill it.
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17:10<vv221>Sfgds, tough luck, it seems to be based on /etc/inittab edition, it is probably obsolete: (in French)
17:10<jeremiah>And, I'm in the wrong channel, though I'm running this on Debian. Sorry for the noise.
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17:25<bartax>hi everyone, I know I shouldn't ask you, but do you know if virtualbox will be downloadable via repository from their official website for debian 11?
17:25<mason>bartax: Anything that is for 10 is almost certain to be updated for 11 eventually.
17:26<bartax>on their site I find it only available for debian 10
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17:27<sney>bartax: you will just have to wait for Oracle to get around to it.
17:27<sney>if you can see when the debian 10 packages were releases, compare that to the debian 10 release date to get an idea of how long it might take.
17:27<Sqrt{not}>bartax, also #vbox on this IRC network
17:28<sney>and if you just need something to test install VMs on a desktop,
17:28<bartax>I don't know if I can use the debian 10 repo, or if I have to wait for the repo for debian 11 to come out, or if I have to abandon virtualbox and switch to boxes.
17:28<dpkg>Virtual Machine Manager (virt-manager) is a desktop user interface for managing the linux Kernel Virtual Machine (KVM) as well as Xen VMs and LXC, with very similar functionality to <virtualbox>. #virt on
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17:30<bartax>i think i have to take a look at virt-manager, maybe it will be a bit more complicated.. I'll study it... thank you and sorry for the trouble.
17:30<sney>some of the buttons are in different places, but I find it almost identical to virtualbox once I got used to how it works
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17:31<bartax>ok, thanks so much
17:31<bartax>bye bye, see you
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17:35<cOOl>sney: i already used oracle virtualbox as 11 was /unstable there was an rpm proposed by oracle ..?
17:36<cOOl>maybe it is usable while racle tweak around for the stable version in bullseye..
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17:37<sney>they probably just don't have a lot of version-specific dependencies.
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17:37<sney>I haven't touched virtualbox in a few years because virt-manager does all I need in that realm, but if bartax comes back you can feel free to tell them
17:38<cOOl>the proposed version wasnt installable in bullseye/unstable once.. but they had a solution..
17:38<cOOl>dont know how it is for now,
17:38<cOOl>proposed version for bust ->sorry
17:39<sney>the virtualbox 6.1.26 package in sid might still be close enough to bullseye to install, but it doesn't have security support
17:39<sney>and packages from oracle are fully 3rd party and may work, or may not
17:39<cOOl>virt-manager i never used, will keep an eye on it -> ;)
17:39<sney>I'm not comfortable recommending any of it unless someone *really needs* virtualbox-brand-virtualbox
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17:43<cOOl>yeah absoluteley ok, its depending for what its used -> in my case it is just to test my custom live-build versions.. security isnt prior. so using it as virtual servers as example is other question..
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18:28<somiaj>cOOl: I too have switched to using kvm-qemu with libvirt (I use virsh vs virt-manager, but just a console instead of gui for libvirt)
18:29<somiaj>I also find my windows 10 vms work just fine with kvm-qemu these days, which was traditionally what virtualbox did a bit better.
18:33<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.13.0-trunk-686 (5.13.12-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); bullseye: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.8-686 (5.10.46-4~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-17-686-pae (4.19.194-3); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.17-686-pae (4.19.194-3~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
18:33<judd>4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1); bookworm: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); bullseye-backports: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4)
18:35<jhutchins>Why is the current stable kernel in backports?
18:35<sney>probably just a bot fail
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18:36<sney>bullseye-backports has no kernel packages atm
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18:37<somiaj>also 'apt policy linux-image-amd64' could also check which (if any kernel) is in bullseye-backports if you had those sources enabled on your machine
18:37<somiaj>but I too see no kernel in bullseye-backports, so just a bug with judd
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18:38<n-iCe>do we have an antix channel?
18:38<dpkg>antiX is a distribution <based on debian> that is designed to be run on older or low-memory systems. It uses sysvinit or runit in place of <systemd>. It is related to <mxlinux>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead:
18:38<n-iCe>oh so no IRC support, sad.
18:38<somiaj>n-iCe: #linux on librea tries to offer more generic linux support, but it can be hit or miss depending on what your actual question is
18:39<mooff>aww, i hoped for some kind of #debian-antics channel
18:39<somiaj>all #debian-foo channels should be offically related to the debian project, so derivatives shouldn't hvae such names
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18:39<n-iCe>I have no questions, just wanted to say that antix worked perfectly in a centrino duo 1gb ram and 80GB hdd, tried to install debian, but used netinstall nonfree even but they did not detect my wifi or ethenet drivers so weird.
18:40<somiaj>n-iCe: what are the chipsets of your wifi and ethernet?
18:40<somiaj>n-iCe: and did you use the bullseye or buster installer?
18:40<n-iCe>hold on a second.
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18:40<n-iCe>somiaj, bullseye
18:40<somiaj>I'm guessing it is broadcom....but lets check the chipsets
18:40<sney>this is the ath10k system from the other day, right?
18:40<Klaus_Dieter>tepozoa: vv221: thank you for your help. the upgrade was succesful. I found myself having to reinstall some neededpackages but the machine boots fine and is usable.
18:41<n-iCe>09:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Limited NetXtreme BCM5752 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02)
18:41<n-iCe>0c:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection (rev 02)
18:41<n-iCe>sney, no n o
18:41<sney>that's just iwlwifi, normally the non-free installer works perfectly. weird.
18:41<n-iCe>sney, this is an old laptop with really bad resources, the other one is a new one
18:41<n-iCe>sney, exactly, happened with the other laptop too
18:41<n-iCe>something is wrong in the iso
18:42<somiaj>brodcom is often very badily supported as in many casees requires third part module or firmware that debian cannot legally distribute.
18:42<n-iCe>but what about this one
18:42<somiaj>but the wifi should be fine, and i'm unsure about that particular broadcom chipset, I just know in general their wifi is an extra hassle beyond needing non-free firmware.
18:42<n-iCe>and its like a 15 years old laptop haha
18:43<n-iCe>latitude D620
18:43<sney>somiaj: that's bnx2, it needs firmware but unlike other broadcom stuff it generally "works"
18:43<sney>I haven't used the stable firmware installer, I should test it on my laptop to make sure it's able to bring up the wifi.
18:44<n-iCe>it's a 2006 laptop, just checked.
18:44<cOOl>install pciutils and check with lspci
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18:44<n-iCe>and antix make it work, I'm sure debian would, just could not install it and tried a lot.
18:45<cOOl>firmware-iwlwifi packet ist installable with non-free sources also firmware-atheros
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18:46<sney>cOOl: scroll up, they already shared lspci output. plus, this is about wifi support in the *installer*, not packages from non-free.
18:47<n-iCe>yeah, weird.
18:47<jepler>I'm looking for leads to debug a problem on a new laptop -- debian bullseye xfce. settings say that when I press the power button I want to be "ask"ed, but instead it ends my session and takes me to the lightdm screen, and another click powers off.
18:48<cOOl>open the image and check the firmware ..
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18:48<n-iCe>cOOl, but how can I install it?
18:48<n-iCe>I know it's there.
18:48<somiaj>n-iCe: probably to provide any decent support beyond just 'guessing', we would need the output of dmesg from the running non-free installer.
18:48<n-iCe>somiaj, yeah, I know, someone the last day was helping me but I think he got busy and left.
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18:49<cOOl>n-iCe apt install firmware-linux-nonfree
18:49<somiaj>n-iCe: even better is to download a non-free live image, so we can have more tools available than just the installer.
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18:49<n-iCe>cOOl, haha you are not getting the problem, system is not even installed.
18:49<n-iCe>somiaj, with 1GB ram? *G*
18:50<somiaj>the standard image might work just fine for that
18:50<sney>n-iCe: anyway, if you want to install debian we'd be glad to help - if you are going to use antix that's ok but it's offtopic for #debian.
18:50<cOOl>compile it your own with live-buils
18:50<cOOl>thats what i do..
18:50<cOOl>what system you need ? desktop environment etc?
18:51<sney>n-iCe: I have an old 32-bit eeepc with 1GB of ram that could run bullseye, I would still use it for taking notes but the internal keyboard port died. debian supports a lot of hardware combinations you just have to be smart about what applications you use.
18:51<somiaj>n-iCe: that would give you a few more tools than the installer to try to debug why the interfaces aren't working.
18:51<somiaj>I have xfce running with buster on a 15+ year old laptop as well, runs okay, though a simple wm would work a bit better
18:51<cOOl>the last install was a lenoveo notepad -> 32 bit efi boot , amd64 arch.. only fedora and debian worked.. but also only self compiled debian image..
18:52<n-iCe>somiaj, did you try antix?
18:52<somiaj>n-iCe: I have no desire to use debian derivatives, and that is beyond the point, bullseye runs fine on older hardware (with being sensible about applications).
18:53<somiaj>but if you want to try to debug why your interfaces are having trouble with the bullseye installer, we need to test out debian.
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18:53<somiaj>if you are happy with antix, stick with it, we just don't support it here.
18:54<cOOl>n-iCe any way to set up a network connection maybe usb-wlan or so?
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18:54<cOOl>n-iCe you could install firmware-nonfree or the single packages then
18:55<Klaus_Dieter>or use a thumb drive to get the single package onto the machine...
18:55<sney>n-iCe: or install from a big dvd image and set up the wifi afterwards, like we discussed with your new laptop.
18:55<sney>the issue with the firmware iso not recognizing your nic is strange, especially with 2 machines...
18:56<ckosloff>I migrated to Bullseye a few days ago, it is supposed to be stable, however Firefox crashes all the time
18:56<Klaus_Dieter>yeah. good idea too sney. this is less fiddly...
18:56<sney>how did you write the iso to usb?
18:56<cOOl>Klaus_Dieter exactly, but i think download an unofficial iso with firmware non-free would solve the problem
18:56<somiaj>ckosloff: By migrated what do you mean?
18:56<Sqrt{not}>n-iCe, I have run that debian-live-11 standard image on a machine with 384MB of ram, you can do it OK with your 1GB
18:56<tjcarter>ckosloff: Firefox is a web browser. Web browsers are bug-ridden flaming piles of crap.
18:56<n-iCe>ok ok
18:57<tjcarter>ckosloff: That said, we're kind of waiting for a new firefox in sid too
18:57<sney>tjcarter: that's a fine opinion, but "crashes all the time" is still anomalous and may be a symptom of something else
18:57<tjcarter>That's true.
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18:57<somiaj>tjcarter: also be nice to know what they migrated from, and are they using firefox (which isn't in bullseye) or firefox-esr
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18:58<tjcarter>That was actually my next question for ckosloff: What version of Firefox exactly?
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18:59<cOOl>esr works fine here..
18:59<Klaus_Dieter>also... plugins or settings can make it crash.. for example forcing hardware acceleration
18:59<tjcarter>I've occasionally had a Firefox profile get out of whack
18:59<Klaus_Dieter>so it may be worth starting witha clean profile
19:00<tjcarter>I've migrated this current profile I've got from Debian sid to two different installations of Mint and back to sid.
19:00<cOOl>yeah rm -r /home/user/.mozilla would do the job XD
19:00<tjcarter>It has 393 tabs open at the moment.
19:00<somiaj>ckosloff: mv is always better
19:01<tjcarter>cOOl: No need to rm
19:01<somiaj>at least when giving support, ensure users have a backup
19:01<cOOl>yeah was for joke.. mv is ok
19:01<tjcarter>cOOl: just ask Firefox to give you a clean profile with -ProfileManager
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19:02<somiaj>we usually don't take rm jokes lightly here, cause it could cause harm to those who don't get the joke
19:02<tjcarter>close out of it, open a new profile, and carefully add back the extensions you need most (PrivacyPossum and UBO for me, followed immediately by Stylus)
19:03<cOOl>the joke was , that it may be a bit rough to reset the browser but at the end it would be a way,,
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19:03<tjcarter><somiaj> we usually don't take rm jokes lightly here ← this, and for good reason. A thing to keep in mind for future.
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19:05<cOOl>sorry, im a terminal guy.. im seriously reseting configs by renaming, moving or deleting them.. thats no joke at all.. but at the end ok when it could be done in settings im with you..
19:05<tjcarter>Sadly, after some ~ 30 years now online, I've yet to find a foolproof way to communicate sarcasm through text chat.
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19:07<cOOl>so before deleting something -backing up is essential, dont thougt that this have to be explained here ;)
19:08<ckosloff>tjcarter: firefox 78.13.0esr-1
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19:09<cOOl>tjcarter i started 1984 on schneider cpc6128
19:09<tjcarter>ckosloff: So the current bullseye ESR release, okay, hmm. Yeah, I'd try closing out of it and open it from a terminal you're not using with -ProfileManager and create a new profile and see if that's more stable.
19:11<tjcarter>cOOl: cool … though I should suggest we're probably better pulling such discussions into #debian-offtopic since we've got people here in #debian looking for help.
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19:12<ckosloff>tjcarter: there is a package plasma-browser-integration for KDE (which I use, it integrates Chromium (much more stable) with Firefox, your thoughts?
19:12<cOOl>tjcarter you're right.
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19:13<mooff>trying out virt-manager.. which pulled in systemd-container.. which actually looks neat
19:14<tjcarter>ckosloff: If you like chromium, that's a good way to go. I miss my Multiple Account Containers in a chromium browser though, so I put up with a fair number of firefox quirks. Also I have nearly 400 tabs open. Guaranteed to bring any webkit browser to its knees.
19:14<mooff>gives 'machinectl' for managing virtual machines and containers.
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19:17<tjcarter>mooff: that looks useful, thanks for the tip
19:17<ckosloff>tjcarter: not even close to 400
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19:21<ckosloff>how to transition from a gui to a terminal screen, I used systemctl stop sddm.service, but it no longer works.
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19:31<mooff>i like the new generic 'open' command in bullseye
19:31<tjcarter>I was under the impression (from attempts to escape a wayland display manager) that ctrl-alt-Fkey doesn't work, but …
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19:32<tjcarter>open is now linked to xdg-open? Nice.
19:32<sney>it might not work with wayland, I haven't tested that recently. but it does work with xorg and sddm would be in an xorg environment by default
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19:32<sarnold>tjcarter: xorg lets you configure whether ctrl+alt+fkeys works via DontVTSwitch in xorg.conf(5)
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19:33<mooff>i tried to use Wayland again yesterday, (now back on i3) .. i'm pretty sure i could ctrl+alt+fN from Wayland sessions though
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19:37<tjcarter>sarnold: but that's off by default. I don't know if there's a way to make sddm for exmaple allow VT switches though.
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19:39<trevorksmith>does anyone know if the images built for raspberry pi's are 64bit or 32bit?
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19:40<sney>trevorksmith: they are 64-bit for supported cpus and 32-bit for everything else
19:41<trevorksmith>sney: Thanks bud
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19:45<Sqrt{not}>right now I'm on a stretch/gnome/wayland session, and C-A-F3, etc work just fine. Note that gdm takes F1 and F2 for itself.
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19:46<tjcarter>Oh, for the session you open.
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19:47<Sqrt{not}>.... it takes of ctrl-alt-F1 and ctrl-alt-F2
19:47<Sqrt{not}>*takes over*
19:48<Sqrt{not}>It puts gnome login manager or something on those vts
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19:49<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: to be fair, my experience with it was installing the task for lxqt and finding it replaced lightdm (which I didn't remove) because I intended to keep it) and found the result involved a lot of gray backgrounds (and very light once I'd logged in to lxqt) with no icons and not using the Debian wallpaper and … it lasted about 10 minutes before I was pruging packages left and
19:49<tjcarter>right and swearing like a sailor.
19:49<tjcarter>Violated too many expectations.
19:49<somiaj>gdm forks to run the actual session as the user and not root I was told?
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19:49<somiaj>well gdm forks the session, thus launching it on a new tty
19:50<tjcarter>I'd imagine sddm does similar.
19:50<somiaj>yea, it is becomming more common with non setuid xorg
19:50<somiaj>assuming waylend runs as the user too
19:51<bentham>Does anyone know if BCM4360 (e.g. Archer T6E) can be used as an access point, or is that not possible, for example due to closed-source drivers?
19:52<sussudio>if you want an access point, why don't you buy an access point
19:53<bentham>sussudio: I don't want a separate device, and, more importantly, I don't want to worry about software security on a non-Debian device.
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19:53<mooff>i've got 'deb bullseye-security main' in my sources.list, but don't seem to have the openssl DSA fix available. what gives?
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19:55<mooff>bentham: Google tells me the same thing, that there's no AP support in the closed source driver. likely out of luck
19:55<somiaj>mooff: what does 'apt policy openssl' say?
19:55<bentham>mooff: thanks
19:55<mooff>somlaj: ah - could it be because of Default-Release?
19:57<mooff>bentham: allegedly AP mode is included in the Linux/ARM driver
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19:59<bentham>mooff: but would that driver only work for ARM kernels?
19:59<bentham>I have a PCI express card. It is plugged into my amd64 motherboard. It is not an ARM
20:00<mooff>yes.. unless there's some sort of 'qemu-kernel-static'.. heheh
20:00<bentham>mooff: augh. I spent good money on that thing.
20:00<mooff>return it?
20:00<bentham>I wonder if there are alternatives. PCI express cards with antennae that I can use as an access point.
20:00<bentham>mooff: yep.
20:01<bentham>Surely there must be something?
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20:02<mooff>comments here recommend Atheros based cards, which have mainline kernel support for AP and client mode
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20:10<tjcarter>mooff: PCIe, Intel tends to be well supported without any BS.
20:10<tjcarter>mooff: USB … good luck.
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20:11<tjcarter>At Free Geek we have a list of USB WiFi dongles that Just Work using an in-kernel driver, with or without non-free firmware blobs … as long as you do not need a tainted kernel with a 3rd party out-of-kernel driver. There is ONE such device on the list newer than 802.11n, it was made by Netgear. They don't make it anymore.
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20:12<tjcarter>I've got one right now in my hot little hands. One. I bought it on eBay so I would have such a thing on hand in case I needed to work on a system and only had wifi networking available.
20:15<mooff>hot little hands, you say. Debian after dark ;-)
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20:17<mooff>any ideas why the priority might be wrong here for debian-security?
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20:19<bentham>mooff, tjcarter: thanks
20:20<bentham>I have some dongles. I've found them to be unstable over long periods of time
20:20<bentham>The drivers work, but they seem to fade in and out of signal if left on for months on end.
20:22<bentham>I'm thinking something with PCIe might be better. But maybe that is not true. I guess I'll keep exploring. But I've learned my lesson on Broadcom
20:22<mooff>maybe a periodic reboot would help you with the dongles
20:23<mooff>maybe you could plug three in and use them one week at a time ;)
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20:23<tjcarter>bentham: I have a hate/hate relationship with realtek at this point.
20:23<bentham>mooff: I'd like to avoid that. Maybe I just need to bite the bullet and buy the device that is eight times more expensive than the one I bought ;)
20:24<bentham>tjcarter: I believe it.
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20:33<mooff>tjcarter: are the realtek wifi drivers for Linux... shite?
20:34<mooff>i'm on a realtek card, and the connection isn't the most stable. i thought it was the AP.
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20:36<tjcarter>mooff: Kind of they are. But also they keep changing things and drivers that used to work no longer do, they're all outside the kernel, you have to compile the driver, and a number of companies are now selling them "for linux, just contact us by email for driver"
20:37<tjcarter>I bought a rather expensive one only to discover the chipset had changed and I now needed to contact them, etc.
20:37<tjcarter>You NEVER want to need to download shit to get your NETWORK ADAPTER to work.
20:37<mooff>ugh. wonder if some management don't believe they're used very much and want the metrics.
20:37<mooff>lol yes, chicken, egg, and problem
20:37<tjcarter>Let alone break out a development suite, since those are often not installed by default.
20:38<mooff>so they are source available, but not open source?
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20:38<tjcarter>They're often binary only with a shim like nvidia.
20:39<tjcarter>I'd quote Linus Torvalds right now, but … we try to keep these channels somewhat family friendly 😁
20:40<tjcarter>Oh, even better, Debian's unofficial, with non-free stuff added live hybrid isos often do not include firmwares for must-compile-source network devices like broadcom and realtek
20:41<tjcarter>You can add this stuff but I'm tired of having to.
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20:42<tjcarter>At this point, I'm at the gimme a driver and make your firmware easily distributable or GTFO stage.
20:42<tjcarter>Also, I'm about ready to add an ethernet to wifi bridge device to my toolbag, because the ethernet port usually works.
20:43<mooff>i thought most of this got better since 2010
20:43<mooff>isn't there some realtek support in the kernel now?
20:44<tjcarter>some but every new wifi standard brings a new wifi chipset with a new lack of willingness to support it. I can give you any number of 802.11n dongles that Just Work
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20:44<mooff>sounds like you could use those to get your new chipset drivers
20:44*mooff offers, flippantly :-P
20:45<binaryhermit>I eagerly await what'll probably become WiFi 7
20:45<tjcarter>mooff: do you have any 802.11b devices anymore?
20:45<binaryhermit>802.11ay, which'll probably bring with it all sorts of jokes about The Fonz
20:46<mooff>no, i think i've only got n
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20:46<tjcarter>mooff: do you know what happens if you try to connect 802.11b to the average 802.11ac or newer access point?
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20:46<mooff>please don't say Cthulu
20:47<tjcarter>Nothing. They usually drop support for 802.11b
20:47<tjcarter>(802.11b devices drop performance of everything else. g as well actually)
20:47<mooff>didn't you say you had 802.11n dongles, though?
20:47<mooff>ah yeah, the performance drop.
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20:48<tjcarter>so how long before 802.11n is not supported by many access points because 802.11n devices on the network make newer, faster devices not work very well?
20:49<tjcarter>"you can just use the old thing" only works as long as the old thing continues to work, and solving the problem later when those old devices no longer work is harder than applying pressure on these chipmakers now.
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20:50<nigger>is there anyone?
20:51<tjcarter>this is a tech support channel, not a chat channel, and your nick is one that appears to be deliberately chosen to cause offense
20:51<tjcarter>!ops racial slurs
20:51<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: tjcarter complains about a problem (see above)
20:51<nigger>this is a test
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20:51<tjcarter>you failed.
20:51-!-mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ
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20:51-!-mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj
20:52<tjcarter>thans somiaj
20:52<cybiko123>Hi all. I wrote a script that creates a LUKS-encrypted root LV and accompanying boot LV for use with Xen (debootstrap, chroot, install GRUB, update-initramfs, etc.) Been working from Wheezy through Buster. Since changing the generated sources to Bullseye, cryptsetup and associated tools are not added to the generated initramfs, so new VMs fail to boot. Any idea on what might have changed?
20:52<sarnold>given the attention span of people lately, I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd dissapear on his own after a minute of no response
20:53<blast007>tjcarter: that's already an option on at least some access points. My 802.11ax Fortinet access points let me restrict the version of wifi.
20:53<tjcarter>(I'm personally pretty hard to offend with language, but the deliberate attempt to be offensive is something I'll always take for what it is.)
20:53<tjcarter>blast007: yeah, n or higher is typical nowadays.
20:54<blast007>I can even restrict to ax only, though then I'd also be unable to connect ;)
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20:55<blast007>I could even get creative and have an ax/ac only 5ghz and an n only 5ghz, since they're triple radio APs
20:55<Sqrt{not}>Here on stretch wayland/gnome, sd-pam + gdm-wayland-session + gnome-session-binary + /usr/bin/gnome-shell + Xwayland + gnome-settings-daemon all run as user "Debian-+" according to ps
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20:56<Sqrt{not}>Then those fork many processes owned by my user
20:57<mooff>what kind of person still uses stretch but chose to rock Wayland?! :)
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21:00<mooff>a person of contradictions, with an appropriate pseudonym
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21:04<Sqrt{not}>I think it came default that way on these boxes, I didn't force it to be wayland. (3 sturdy stretch machines networked between here an local Uni, running some old fortran models together -- don't ask, it still works and need to run)
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21:04<tjcarter>mooff: I'm running sid and added en_US.US-ASCII as a supported locale.
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21:06<mooff>bunch'a wrong-uns in here! :)
21:07<Sqrt{not}>The unix motto is it? There's more than one wrong way to do it.
21:08<tjcarter>en_US.US-ASCII isn't wrong. My Apple IIe doesn't support 8-bit.
21:09<tjcarter>Worse, it's typical on that system for the high bit to be set.
21:09<Sqrt{not}>It's reserved for parity, innit?
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21:11<tjcarter>No, it's just typically set for s&g as far as I can tell. So much that I wrote a quick hexdump -C equivalent that ignores the high bit for the character display
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21:14<nana_>so its typical on debian to not be able to have a setting in XFCE to change display brightness?
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21:15<sarnold>I think it has more to do with your individual video card, display panel, etc.
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21:20<mooff>nana_, do you get a brightness slider on other distros / desktop environments?
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21:33<jhutchins>nana_: I have hotkeys that control it, I've never looked for a configuration setting.
21:35<jhutchins>nana_: Looks like it's a panel plug-in.
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21:36<mooff>maybe they got their brightness turned down and can't see our messages
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21:48<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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21:54<crawler>I created a systemd service that excuse a bash script, currently it is sending the script output to syslog. How to make that service to not send the output to syslog?
21:56<sarnold>is the script using 'logger' or something similar to emit to syslog directly itself?
21:57<mooff>crawler, set StandardOutput=null in the [Service] section
21:57<mooff>then systemctl daemon-reload; systemctl restart your-service
21:58<crawler>sarnold nope
21:58<crawler>mooff will I be able to review the log using journalctl?
21:58<sarnold>not with null, you'd want =journal for that
21:59<mooff>well, no, stdout would be swallowed
21:59<sarnold>the choices are in systemd.exec(5)
21:59<sarnold>funny, I expected to see a syslog option there, but I didn't
22:01<mooff>if you don't need the syslog, feel free to uninstall it
22:01<mooff>rsyslog and syslog-ng are likely configured to pull from the journal
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22:04<sarnold>ohhh that might explain it
22:04<crawler>I have added StandardOutput=journal to [Service] section, reloaded then restarted. Output still goes to syslog
22:06<mooff>syslog is probably just mirroring your journal
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22:07<mooff>it was a compatibility hack that co-existed for a while, but i remember uninstalling .. i think it was syslog-ng last year, when it was recommended to do so
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22:07<mooff>did you update from buster?
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22:08<crawler>nope, I am still using buster
22:09<mooff>ah.. i think upgrading to bullseye might actually remove the syslog daemon for you
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22:10<crawler>thanks sarnold , thanks mooff
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22:12<mooff>if you miss being able to read logs from the filesystem and like undocumented Go projects i made for the purpose in Jan :P
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22:15<nana_>jhutchins: yeah I have laptop buttons, but even at full the monitor is a bit dim
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22:19<nana_>power manager panel plugin is *also at full brightness, maybe window tweaks?
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22:29<nattiestnate>hi, i downloaded my iso image from here: and attempted to install with this image, however i'm getting an error saying my hardware needs non-free firmware files to operate. why is this the case and how do i fix this?
22:30<nattiestnate>the hardware with missing firmware, apparently, is my intel wifi card: intel 7265
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22:31<nattiestnate>mason: yes, as you can see, i downloaded my iso image from there. however i got that error message
22:31<mason>Or, I didn't see that. Interesting.
22:32<nattiestnate>i'll try burning the image again into my usb just to make sure but this is weird, yeah
22:32<mason>Looks like that's supposed to just be iwlwifi. Hrm.
22:33<nattiestnate>weirdly enough i tried one of the live images and it worked just fine. however i notice the live images automatically install the DE it ships with and i don't want that
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22:34<mason>nattiestnate: Are you installed or not quite yet? You want firmware-iwlwifi anyway.
22:35<mason>,v libopenobex2
22:35<judd>Package: libopenobex2 on amd64 -- buster: 1.7.2-1; stretch: 1.7.2-1; bookworm: 1.7.2-1+b1; bullseye: 1.7.2-1+b1; sid: 1.7.2-1+b1
22:36<nattiestnate>mason: not quite yet
22:36<vicky>Hi. I'm trying to build in bullseye and it fails for target openobex-apps-doc. Is this a known issue ?
22:37<nattiestnate>also i don't think i have access to wired internet right now
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22:38<mason>nattiestnate: There's an installer option in the live image. Might be worth seeing if that includes the iwlwifi stuff. If that boots and has network, you could always snag the package and then have it on some removable media for after you install. Lots of options, but odd that the issue exists.
22:39<mason>vicky: Maybe get the version from Bullseye if you're building for Bullseye. Might be some build infrastructure changed or somesuch.
22:40<mason>Although I'm not sure I trust what is telling me right now.
22:40<mason>Anyway, g'night all, and good luck.
22:40<vicky>mason: Sure, let me try
22:41<nattiestnate>mason: thanks, good night
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22:51-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*] by debchange
22:51<nightshift>I have two, probably unrelated issues going on, since upgrading from buster to bullseye. First, and probably simplest, libreoffice doesn't want to launch
22:52<nightshift>And I can't figure out why
22:53<sarnold>try starting it from a terminal, it might spit out a useful error message
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22:55<nightshift>returns prompt, no error, doesn't launch
23:00<sarnold>so, my next debugging hint is a bit of a sledge hammer: strace it and see what fails.
23:00<sarnold>strace -f -o /tmp/strace.out libreoffice or something like that
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23:02<nana_>cant noticed i'm using -11 vs. -10
23:02<nightshift>don't have strace
23:02<nana_>maybe a newer -esr is noticeable
23:02<nightshift>and I'm on v11
23:02<nightshift>(sorry, nana, I think you are talking about something different
23:03<nana_>I am
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23:07<nightshift>Ug, I give up on libreoffice for now. My other issue is node. I had to uninstall it to get other things upgraded, and attempting to uninstall I am getting lock file related errors
23:07<nightshift>*attempting to reinstall
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23:08<sarnold>pastebin the errors?
23:08<mooff>sounds like you might have another apt process running somewhere
23:09<nightshift>I shouldn't have any other apt processes running
23:09<nightshift>but, I wouldn't be surprised if there is one
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23:10<sarnold>try namei -l /var/lib/apt/lists/lock
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23:12<mooff>nightshift: run apt update as root
23:12<sarnold>okay, that looks normal enough. was your apt running as root?
23:12<mooff>`sudo apt update`
23:13<nightshift>honestly, I still use apt-get
23:13<sarnold>that's fine, it took me five years or so to train my fingers to use apt instead of apt-get and I still sometimes get it wrong :)
23:13<mooff>that's cool. but it wasn't running as root there..
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23:15<nightshift>as root....
23:15<sarnold>you only ran curl as root
23:15<sarnold>not bash
23:15<mooff>^ put the sudo just before 'bash' instead
23:16<nightshift>oh, duh... I've done this install soooooo many times, not sure how I missed the second sudo this time
23:16<sarnold>you only need one, in front of bash
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23:16<nightshift>thanks, worked this time
23:17<nightshift>Now if I can just figure out why libreoffice won't open
23:18<mooff>try `ps aux | grep libre` to see if anything's running in the background
23:19<nightshift>install -f found a bunch of missing packages
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23:22<nightshift>hmmmmm, looks like it did try to open it, about an hour ago
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23:27<nightshift>I'm going to try a reboot
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23:31<nattiestnate>how do i report to the debian team that the debian 11.0 image with non-free firmware doesn't have the firmware i need?
23:32<nattiestnate>more specifically i need firmware for my intel wifi card, the intel 7265
23:32<nattiestnate>the live images have them but the one i downloaded from here doesn't
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23:40<nightshift>Alight, more weirdness, I uninstalled libreoffice, but it is still showing in my program list
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23:53<A|an>truth: interesting find!
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23:54<nightshift>I figured out why, doing an install or remove on just the assumed meta-package "libreoffice" is not the correct way to install it
23:55<sarnold>ah :)
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23:58<nightshift>(well, it is, if you don't already have it, I think i originally had it installed through one of the base or task packages)
---Logclosed Thu Aug 26 00:00:10 2021