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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-26

---Logopened Thu Aug 26 00:00:10 2021
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00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:02<nightshift>got things working correctly, and work done. I've got other things I need to do, now. thanks for the help finding my stupid errors
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00:05<somiaj>did running apt autoremove afterwards take out the packages? Or could it be something else suggests/recommends libreoffice holding it in
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02:16<mooff>i've got postfix / dovecot running.. and dovecot is using config which points to the snakeoil ssl key files.. yet somehow it's serving the correct LetsEncrypt cert for the domain
02:16<mooff>it's really bothering me.. lol
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02:16<mooff>it has survived a reboot and i can't how on earth it's getting it
02:16<grawity>did you actually check dovecot's ports
02:16<grawity>and not your webserver's
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02:16<mooff>yes, absolutely
02:17<grawity>does `doveconf -n` agree with what you're seeing in the config?
02:17<grawity>(I've seen so many people post their "ssl labs" results *of port 443* when trying to set up smtps or imaps...)
02:18<mooff>it is certainly serving the correct cert on the port
02:18<mooff>`openssl s_client -showcerts -connect mail.awful.cooking:993 -servername mail.awful.cooking`
02:19<mooff>i'm just going to check i didn't do something really stupid, and just overwrite the snakeoil files
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02:21<mooff>that's exactly what i did.
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02:21<mooff>i'm banning myself from computing.
02:21<grawity>tbh it seems like having a valid certificate for IMAP would be the intended result anyway, no?
02:22<mooff>yes, that's probably why i forgot about the hack
02:22<grawity>or did you actually just cp the certs over snake-oil.pem
02:22<mooff>^ ...
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02:25<mooff>i think i was experiencing some opaque failure of it to read or serve the cert from /etc/letsencrypt
02:26<mooff>and in frustration / 'lets try somewhere i KNOW it can read'...
02:26<mooff>but i feel ashamed now. nothing to see here.
02:27<jlu5>I've also been burnt by cp / mv overwriting files by default
02:28<jlu5>now I always do alias cp='cp -i'; alias mv='mv -i'
02:28<jlu5>this makes it so they ask before overwriting files
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04:51-!-Maduro51 is "Si SI" on #debian
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05:14<tjcarter>I discovered an important difference between Ubuntu and Debian: Ubuntu's cal without arguments is equivalent to ncal -b. Debian's cal is not, but you can just run ncal -b, so…
05:15<tjcarter>Very important since March 2020. 😛
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05:25-!-greenJim is "Jean-Marc" on #debian
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05:28-!-genesix is "purple" on #xen
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05:36<sep>upgraded a debian with mariadb from 8 to 10 via 9 and everything seems smooth. except that some old clients can not connect due to secure-auth; but if i disable secure-auth on the server many newer clients can not connect ?? is there a way to support both new and old clients while one is going thru the old clients upgrading them to support secure-auth ?
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07:05-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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07:24<jkc>sep: As of MariaDB 5.7, the secure-auth option CANNOT be disabled.
07:25<grawity>sep: how old are your clients though
07:26<sep>all ages
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07:28<grawity>afaik secure-auth deals with the password hashing change that was introduced in mysql 4.1
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07:28<grawity>as in, 2006
07:28<grawity>at some point you're really going to have to EOL clients older than mysql 4.1
07:29<wwilliam>How do i Install debian on a baremetal server that is somewhere else and I do not have a way to pop in a cd for installation?
07:29<grawity>what is the server currently running, and does it have DRAC/iLO?
07:29<koollman>wwilliam: what ways do you have ? is it running an OS already ? do you control something else on the network ?
07:30<wwilliam>There is nothing installed on this server.
07:30<koollman>(I assume no ilo, otherwise popping in a cd would be an option :) )
07:30<wwilliam>Yes it could have drac or iLO
07:30<koollman>well, then ... pop in a cd ? :)
07:30<grawity>then attach the debian iso through iLO and install from that
07:30<wwilliam>Ah beatiful.
07:30<grawity>dunno if dell's idrac still needs java, in hp ilo you can just paste a http:// URL
07:30<wwilliam>What about if no iLO?
07:30<koollman>I install my servers with pxe, but there are many other options, although some do require a bit of preparation first
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07:31<grawity>if you have literally nothing, well, get someone to physically plug a debian usb stick into it
07:31<grawity>that's going to be easier than setting up pxe, I suspect
07:31<wwilliam>koollman: I would like to do that? is there a documente I can read ?
07:31<grawity>or tbh
07:31<grawity>install debian locally, then mail the HDD to be installed on the server
07:31<koollman>or think about how you would do anything else with that server... maybe don't send servers to a dc you don't control without an OS
07:32<koollman>wwilliam: pxe requires having at least some other system on the same network, and having control over the dhcp server
07:33<wwilliam>Yes We probebly can arrange for that.
07:33<koollman>so it is quite dependant on your context for 'somewhere' :)
07:33<wwilliam>Well this question was asked in an interview, I failed miserably.
07:34<koollman>well, I'm not sure which documentation is 'good' currently for doing debian pxe install
07:34<koollman>but I assume many are available. basically you want a dhcp server, tftp server, and a directory with some bootloader (generally pxelinux) and the debian files to do the installation
07:34<wwilliam>Ok I will search for that "debian pxe install" Thank you.
07:35<koollman>note that the same technique can be used for various other OS
07:35<wwilliam>Thank you all. Thank you koollman
07:35<koollman>pxe is pretty nice to have in any datacenter
07:36<wwilliam>The bios have to be set up to boot from network? correct? on the new server?
07:36<koollman>yes
07:36<wwilliam>I guess this needs to have drac or iLO.
07:36<koollman>depends what the default bios configuration is
07:37<wwilliam>The reason of me doing this is I was given the chance and come back with the answer on the 2 interview.
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07:39<koollman>generally, you want to have some ilo/drac/other thing setup when the server is sent to somewhere else. Or some procedure to do the setup once it is put in a rack
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07:43<koollman>and, also, real physical cd aren't used much if you have decent automation/setup systems :)
07:44<koollman>wwilliam: in addition to networked install or virtual cd from drac-like systems, you generally want to use preseed to automate the configuration, or maybe just use some pre-made image to put on the disks
07:45<nattiestnate>hi, after a fresh install of standard debian (i installed it from: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.0.0-live+nonfree/amd64/bt-hybrid/debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard+nonfree.iso.torrent) i'm left with a machine with absolutely no internet connection, not even when i plug in my ethernet cable. network manager doesn't seem to be installed either. what should i do?
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07:49<wwilliam>koollman: Thank you great information.
07:50<juhop>nattiestnate: I've always used this method: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Using_IWD after installing from netinst (no network-manager, only wifi available)
07:51<juhop>actually this: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Using_ifupdown
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08:02<nattiestnate>juhop: right, i'll try that, thanks. i'll let you know if it works
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08:13<FLD>after upgrading to bullseye: /etc/cron.daily/aide: line 108: CONFIG: unbound variable /etc/cron.daily/aide: line 109: CONFIG: unbound variable /etc/cron.daily/aide: line 111: CONFIG: unbound variable /etc/cron.daily/aide: line 810: CONFIG: unbound variable
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08:15<Dami>Hi everyone, is there a way to reverse lookup the compile dependencies of the current package.
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08:15<petn-randall>Dami: So you have a package, and you want to know which other packages need it during build time?
08:16<petn-randall>FLD: And have you looked at those lines in that file?
08:16<petn-randall>FLD: My guess is that the problem has been there before, you just noticed it now.
08:17<Dami>petn-randall:I need to upgrade a package and want to know what software might be affected
08:17<FLD>its using $CONFIG without it being defined
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08:18<Dami>It's uncertain which software build-depends on which package I want to upgrade
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08:20<Dami>apt-cache rdepends can only find installation dependent on the package I want to upgrade
08:20<FLD>my .xsessio-errors log has grown to 82M / 1.5 million lines in less than 24 hours
08:21<petn-randall>Dami: So you want to just know reverse dependencies, *not* during build time? Are you planning on recompiling a bunch of packages?
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08:21<FLD>its absolutely filled with lines like "Corrupt JPEG data: 13 extraneous bytes before marker 0xd9"
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08:24<petn-randall>FLD: You might want to fix the config file, or revert it to the default:
08:24<petn-randall>!confmiss
08:24<dpkg>You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>.
08:24<petn-randall>FLD: Ouch. Does it say which jpg it is?
08:24<FLD>no
08:24<Dami>petn-randall:I need to confirm which packages will compile and depend on the packages I want to upgrade, and then to judge the impact before compiling them
08:24<FLD>the bytes value keeps changing
08:25<FLD>so its likely multiple jpgs all the time
08:25<FLD>probably KDE assets because krunner is also screaming errors and warnings in syslog
08:26<FLD>every character you type into krunner causes syslog warnings about deprecation
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08:27<FLD>and i did compare my /etc/default/aide and /etc/aide/aide.conf against the bullseye versions and there's nothing missing
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08:28<petn-randall>Dami: Is there are reason you want to do that? Sounds like a lot of work, and your goal is unclear.
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08:33<Dami>I actually confirm whether there is currently a way to directly reverse look up the compilation dependencies of the package I want to upgrade
08:33<jelly>,file bin/build-rdeps
08:33<judd>Search for bin/build-rdeps in bullseye/amd64: devscripts: usr/bin/build-rdeps
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08:34<jelly>Dami, I'm not sure whether you're talking about build dependencies, reverse build dependencies, or something else
08:34<jelly>but in case you're talking about reverse build dependencies ^
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08:35<Dami>For example, I want to upgrade libqt5core5, I want to know which software Build-Depends libqt5core5
08:36<petn-randall>Dami: But *why* do you want to upgrade it?
08:36<petn-randall>!goal
08:36<dpkg>Describe your goal, not what you think the solution is.
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08:37<Dami>I just gave an example. In fact, I need to fix a basic library bug and need to upgrade it.
08:37<jelly>Dami, it's best to state the actual issue with the actual library, not an example or how YOU think it might be best addressed
08:38<jelly>sometimes there's a better way
08:38<jelly>sometimes someone's reported and found a workaround or fixed the exact issue
08:38<Dami>Now I’m discussing whether there is a way to find Build-Depends, not why I need to upgrade
08:38<jelly>sometimes you can rebuild a library without breaking ABI
08:39<jelly>^ debian is VERY careful about that and has provisions to at least automatically deal with symbol changes
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08:40<jelly>in general, we try to help solving actual problems, not hypothetical situations
08:40<petn-randall>Dami: Sure, but then we'll only be able to provide a way for your solution, without addressing the actual problem you're trying to solve.
08:40<jelly>Dami, did build-rdeps work for you?
08:41<petn-randall>Dami: And replacing core libraries with newer ones will likely result in problems that are far away and difficult to debug from the original library.
08:42<jelly>I'd sure like to know which library and version and which debian release, and what kind of bug
08:42<FLD>after upgrading to bullseye my Ctrl+Alt+Fn consoles are just black and not reacting to user input. do i need to enable them somewhere?
08:43<jelly>and sometimes people ask "general" questions because they're running something different than Debian
08:44<Dami>jelly: build-rdeps is work,thanks everyone
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08:47<jelly>Dami, now be honest, are you using Debian at all?
08:47<FLD>oh never mind the consoles were just being output from dGPU instead of the iGPU that Xorg is running on
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08:48<Dami>yes
08:48<FLD>i've never been able to figure out what controls that specific selection
08:48<jelly>Dami, and you can't tell us which library and which bug... because?
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08:54<Dami>During an upgrade, the system cannot be started, so I want to understand the upgrade mechanism when the package abi changes. I currently want to learn about the software package reverse lookup dependency method, and see if there is a way to do a detection mechanism to avoid it during the upgrade. this problem.
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08:54<FLD>petn-randall: the "Corrupt JPEG data" is flooding from a firefox-esr that i use to view my security cameras
08:55<FLD>as soon as i closed firefox the flood stopped
08:57<jelly>Dami, ABI changes are either always strictly forward compatible, or the binary package name is changed and old stuff uses old lib, new stuff uses new lib
08:58<jelly>if there's an ABI change that prevents a service from starting, but the package kept the old name, that's release-critical bug
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09:02<Dami>jelly:What I want to study is whether it is possible to add a safeguard measure when ABI changes are known to cause possible startup failures, and this problem is detected when the software package is upgraded
09:03<FLD>i wonder if i could just replace 'exec >>"$ERRFILE" 2>&1' in /etc/X11/Xsession with: 'exec | grep -v "Corrupt JPEG data" | >>"$ERRFILE" 2>&1'
09:03<FLD>grep the pain away
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09:08<Dami>Moreover, when the warehouse is replaced to update some software, some software upgrades may cause dependency compatibility problems, and system crashes may also occur. Although this is caused by use, it should be better if there is a set of guarantee detection mechanism.
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09:10<FLD>well whadyaknow someone already had the same idea: https://superuser.com/questions/1028175/is-it-possible-to-filter-the-content-of-xsession-errors
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09:33<petn-randall>Dami: The "bread and butter" way is to do automated software testing before upgrade. Reverse dependency checking doesn't really give you any output that allows you to reliably predict failure.
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09:39<Dami>Yes, I think automated testing will ensure the stability of the system release,bug i am not quite sure about the logic of specific automated testing. Many people in use currently have problems with the system crashing due to upgrading the basic software. I think it is necessary to add this detection mechanism when upgrading the software.
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09:47<koffkoff>Hi, the current version of ping (since at least stretch) has a bug where truncated pings aren't reported, this has been fixed in version 20210722, am I correct in assuming that this will not be included in bullseye?
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09:48<koffkoff>For reference the current version is 20210202-1 in bullseye.
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10:09<jkc>If a bug report has been filed (e.g. reportbug), then it is possible for the relevant fix to be backported into the stable release.
10:11<tjcarter>dpkg, irc as root
10:11<dpkg>(from Net::IRC comments) <crab> to irc as root demonstrates about the same brains as a man in a thunderstorm waving a lightning rod and standing in a copper tub of salt water yelling "ALL GODS ARE BASTARDS!"
10:11<tjcarter>okay that was not the response I expected.
10:11<jkc>Wow.
10:11<crab>i never said that.
10:12<crab>that was a different crab.
10:12<crab>i regularly irc as root.
10:12*jkc hands crab his lightning rod.
10:12<tjcarter>It's not a particularly good idea.
10:12<tjcarter>1 out of 10 do not recommend.
10:12<crab>wait, irc-ing as root or the lightning rod thing?
10:12<jkc>Yes.
10:12<crab>what if the water isnt salty and im religious?
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10:13<tjcarter>Then you get zapped twice
10:13<jkc>I don't believe that either of those will change the motivation (physics) of electric currents flowing through the air.
10:13<crab>actually, i don't irc as root that much, and i broadly agree with the other crab.
10:13<crab>i think he could have made it less tempting though by making the whole speech less theatrical.
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10:17<tjcarter>dpkg, no, irc as root is <reply> Using root when you don't need to can expose you to security risks. That goes double when the thing you're doing is across a network, like when you're using irc for example. It's not a good idea. Probably nobody's going to tell you to stop doing it, but we will sit here, judging you.
10:17<dpkg>tjcarter: okay
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10:36<tepozoa>Klaus_Dieter: fantastic (your upgrade working OK) - apologies, I disappear in (my) evenings, get away from computers and recharge my batteries :) feel free to leave me a private msg if you need something and I'm not around
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11:55<ydbi>what sort of problems, if any, does it cause that docker.io package depends on iptables?
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11:58<tepozoa>modern iptables has a nftables converter built in, so the classic iptables rules are converted on the fly for you behind the scenes
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12:02<ydbi>so it shouldn't break anything if I have both packages 'nftables' and 'iptables' installed?
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12:07<sney>ydbi: not inherently, though if you are trying to administer the kernel firewall with 2 different sets of tools you could possibly have weird results. see 'apt show iptables' for a blurb about what it includes
12:07<tepozoa>I'm honestly not sure, as I don't do that - I use the netfilter-persistent package (replaces iptables-persistent) which does not pull in the parent package "nftables" but it does use libnft/libxft*
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12:07<imMute>tepozoa: sorta. in reality what the kernel has is called netfilter, and iptables and nftables are both frontends that control that ocmponent
12:08<tepozoa>yep :)
12:08<imMute>it might work to add a rule with iptables and read it back out with nftables, but you really shouldn't do that - weird shit might happen
12:08<bleb>i did a fresh install of debian 10 (with xfce), installed cinnamon, then uninstalled cinnamon, now starting an upgrade to debian 11
12:08<tepozoa>I'm still in "legacy" mode, as I touch old systems as well as new - compatibilty in workflow
12:09<bleb>i want to be sure that all the packages that were installed as deps of cinnamon have been uninstalled
12:09<bleb>is there any way to do that automatically?
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12:09<bleb>i notice that yelp and gnome-user-docs are installed; should that be included in debian with xfce?
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12:10<bleb>slash could it have been pulled in by cinnamon
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12:10<imMute>bleb: sudo apt autoremove
12:10<tepozoa>ydbi: what I can at least say, "in Debian 11 if you use netfilter-persistent package and /etc/default/iptbales.* files, it works fine without having 'nftables' package installed" -- perhaps for your use case, uninstall nftables if you're not distinctly using it?
12:11<tepozoa>sounds like you should do some scientific scientificing
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12:12<ydbi>I'd rather not install something that's in the "Important" package set of debian
12:12<bleb>did autoremove
12:12<ydbi>*uninstall
12:13<bleb>so i guess yelp and gnome-user-docs are chucked into debian base for convenience
12:13<imMute>ydbi: there's no problem with removing nftables and using iptables instead
12:13<tepozoa>sometimes Important is more of an opinion than hard requirement. I fight with Recommends a lot too
12:13<sney>bleb: you can 'aptitude why packagename' or 'apt rdepends --installed packagename' to find out why something is installed
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12:15<sney>there's a lot of overlap in desktop stuff, particulary with gtk+ environments, so something that was installed as a dep or recommend of cinnamon might have a suggests relationship with something in xfce and stay installed that way.
12:15<sney>but disk space is cheap and it's usually only little libraries that do this.
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12:17<bleb>sney: i follwed it to gnome-control-center
12:17<bleb>would that be used in xfce?
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12:18<sney>I'm pretty sure only gnome uses gnome-control-center.
12:18<bleb>apt rdepends --installed gnome-contorl-center doesn't show any dependencies, just a lot of Breaks: and Recommends: and Replaces:
12:18<sney>Recommends will bring a package in by default
12:18<bleb>maybe i need aptitude to find out why it is installed
12:19<bleb>but that brings in a ton of stuff..
12:20<tepozoa>well loved systems just tend to acquire this cruft, I've gone through this excercise a lot
12:20<bleb>well this system is not well loved
12:21<bleb>i literally installed debian 10 last week and haven't touched it
12:21<bleb>except to install cinnamon
12:21<bleb>then uninstall
12:21<tepozoa>most common reason that happens to me: foo /used to be/ required, but an upgrade to /bar/ removed the requirement, but then something stopped the magic from working right
12:23<bleb>is there a good way to completely re-install only the packages that would be on a base debian 11 installation?
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12:23<bleb>and leave everything else out
12:23<bleb>short of doing a completely fresh installation
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12:24<sney>there isn't really any such thing as a "base debian 11 installation", what you get are sets of packages depending on what you pick in the installer
12:24<bleb>yeah
12:25<sney>just look at 'df -h' and if your disk usage isn't crazy, ignore the extra packages and proceed with your upgrade
12:25<tepozoa>I don't know of an automatic way (never had to do this), but if you pop a new VM, install the desired result and then save `dpkg -l` (or get-selections) to a file there's your list of Needs to Be
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12:25<bleb>so task-xfce-desktop depends on lightdm, lightdm suggests accountsservice, accountsservice suggests gnome-control-center
12:25<sney>once you're upgraded you can look at deborphan or other solutions to clean up any stuff you really don't want
12:25<bleb>as reported by apt why gnome-control-center
12:25<bleb>but "suggests" is not the same a "recommends" is it?
12:26<sney>that sounds like you can remove gnome-control-center.
12:26<bleb>so this doesn't explain why its installed
12:26<bleb>guess its a mystery
12:26<sney>it probably came in with cinnamon and stayed because it had a suggests relationship with an existing package
12:26<bleb>ah
12:26<tepozoa>it *sounds like* one of the install steps previously taken used the flag to add Suggests (which is normally off)
12:27<bleb>so maybe i can automatically remove all packages that are not normally autoremoved because of a "suggests" relationship?
12:27<sney>there's probably an aptitude flag for that, but it could still do weird stuff
12:28<poacher_>apt-get remove *gnome*
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12:29<bleb>you sure nothing that xfce pulls in has gnome in the name?
12:30<poacher_>maybe gtk
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12:30<poacher_>gnome tool kit
12:30<tepozoa>a lot of alternate desktops use the gnome keyring
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12:30<jmcnaught>xfce on Debian also uses network-manager-gnome
12:31<bleb>woa i even have cinnamon-control-center, after apt purge cinnamon and apt autoremove
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12:31<bleb>maybe i should just do a fresh installation
12:31<poacher_>gnome keyring thats one of the most annoying ones
12:32<Sqrt{not}>bleb, if this is a newish install, and you want to undo this DM overlap, why not just reinstall debian 11 from scratch, exactly how you want it? probably easier than the hoops you are jumping through right now
12:32<Sqrt{not}>heh, you read my mind while I was typing
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12:33<poacher_>install debian rolling
12:33<bleb>i can do it from debian 10
12:33<bleb>but the debian 11 installer was breaking
12:33<bremner>poacher_: are you asking a question, or trying to help?
12:34<poacher_>if was asking wouldnt you se a ? ?
12:34<bleb>it would literally give me a bsod after dhcpv6, before dhcp normally runs
12:35<poacher_>bremner: you are making me nervous
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12:35<bremner>poacher_: good.
12:35<bremner>for starters, "debian rolling" is not a thing
12:35<poacher_>i must be missing something
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12:36<poacher_>debian rolling aka as debian testing
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12:36<bleb>do the package sets from the installer correspond to something i can install/uninstall via apt?
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12:36<jkc>poacher_: Testing is not a rolling release.
12:36<bleb>what about debian stable
12:37<jhutchins>(Several people just erased what jkc said.
12:37*vv221 agrees with jkc
12:37<vv221>(unstable is the real rolling ;P)
12:37<bremner>#debian-next is the channel for testing and sid
12:37<jhutchins>vv221: Not really.
12:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 1023] by debhelper
12:38<jkc>unstable is just a development branch that isn't pinned to a specific upcoming stable release.
12:38<vv221>jhutchins, I was mostly joking, but I’m OK with discussin this further on #debian-next as suggested ;)
12:38<alex11>i think if i needed (and i never do) to run a rolling release i'd probably go with suse tumbleweed or something
12:38<alex11>not debian which is not really meant for it
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12:39<bleb>like can i remove everything graphical by purging xorg, then install the xfce package set?
12:39<bleb>but the xfce set from the installer is more than just the xfce package right?
12:39<Sqrt{not}>bleb, you should not be getting a BSOD from the installer. we could try to help you debug that if you want
12:40<somiaj>bleb: It depends on how you install xfce, the installer installs the xfce task (see tasksel) which is a metapackage that includes a few more common things a desktop user may want.
12:40<tepozoa>bleb: backing up, the Bullseye installer crashing on you is not good. At the ISO installer GRUB, edit the commandline and add 'ipv6.disable=1' at the end of all the other things and see if that gets you over that hurdle
12:40<somiaj>there are often various layers of meta packages one can install for a desktop, depending on if they want the full taks to just the core components.
12:40<somiaj>But it sounds like youhave some other issue
12:41<bleb>tepozoa: i tried that when you suggested it a week ago :)
12:41<tepozoa>still crashing?
12:41<bleb>it crashed sooner
12:41<tepozoa>hah! *laugh*
12:42<bleb>jk
12:42<bleb>it didn't crash but i didn't have any network at all
12:42<bleb>and no network configuration option in the installer menu
12:43<bleb>i think i tried something else that made it crash sooner
12:43<tepozoa>is that system with the Broadcom NIC?
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12:43<tepozoa>those things are the devils' work
12:44<bleb>would that show up in lspci?
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12:45<bleb>dont see any network stuff but Communication controller: Intel Corporation 8 Series/C220 Chipset Family MEI Controller #1
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12:46<poacher_>how would one test hardware errors using debian?
12:46<bleb>ok lshw says the network product is Ethernet Connection I217-LM from ventor Intel Corporation
12:46<bleb>so no broadcom nic
12:47<bleb>let me see what was the last thing i tried
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12:50<bleb>so when i get the bsod, i am able to switch to a console
12:50<bleb>there are not errors in dmesg or /var/log/syslog
12:50<bleb>does anyone have suggestions for what to try?
12:50<somiaj>could it be you just need gpu firmware and should use the text based installer?
12:51<bleb>the bsod is in the text based installer
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12:51<jkc>Isn't the entire installer a blue screen...?
12:51<bleb>yes... thats why its a bsod
12:51<sney>yes, debian doesn't really have a "bsod" like windows, it would be helpful to know what the actual error was
12:51<bleb>i can still type and replace the blue with black text on a white background
12:51<bleb>does that explain it?
12:51<somiaj>try the text based installer, not the graphically one
12:52<bleb>that was the text based installer
12:52<bleb>in the graphical one, after dhcpv6, the installer stops responding
12:52<bleb>I still have the debian banner and it still says "Configure the network", but there is just blank white below that
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12:53<bleb>last week some people speculated that it could be cause by my iodd 2531 which emulates a cd. but then why does it work fine with the debian 10 installer
12:54<bleb>(and every other installer ive ever used)
12:54<jkc>The probability that IPv6 is, in this case, a red herring is within epsilon of 1.
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12:54<somiaj>well it could be an issue with the kernel, but if debian 10 works, why not install debian 10 and upgrade?
12:54<bleb>guess i can redo that
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12:54<bleb>and not make the mistake of installing cinnamon to try it out!
12:55<poacher_>might was well isntall old gnome
12:55<bleb>what about my idea of purging xorg then installing the xfce desktop package set?
12:55<bleb>idk if you can do that outside the installer
12:56<poacher_>xorg ?
12:56<bleb>the X.Org Server
12:56<poacher_>arent debian using wayland?
12:56<bleb>not on xfce at least
12:57<poacher_>good point
12:57<somiaj>debian provides you the choice, but out side of gnome/kde, most other things don't support wayland yet and use xorg
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12:58<bleb>i dont have wayland installed, but i do have libwayland-client0 and -cursor0
12:58<bleb>lets see aptitude why that is
12:59<bleb>ah libgtk-3.0
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12:59<bleb>so you can't install the xfce desktop package set outside the installer?
12:59<bleb>or nobody knows?
12:59<luna_>you should be able to
13:00<luna_>To install the full Xfce desktop environment and utilities, install the xfce4 package.
13:00<luna_>sudo apt install xfce4
13:00<poacher_>but there this wayland to xorg emulator thing
13:00<bleb>is that the same as the package set from the installer?
13:00<imMute>bleb: you could also use 'tasksel', that's *exactly* what the installer uses
13:01<somiaj>or install the task-xfce-desktop metapkacage (which is what taskel installs)
13:01<luna_>somiaj: ah
13:01<somiaj>though I did mention this previousally
13:02<bleb>maybe a long time ago
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13:03<bleb>thanks
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13:05<bleb>grub-common suggests desktop-base
13:05<bleb>huh
13:06<sney>the graphical logos for grub are in desktop-base
13:07<bleb>i put APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "false"; in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99_norecommends
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13:08<bleb>but after apt purge xorg and apt autoremove, i still have xfce4
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13:08<bleb>is there a command which removes packages that lack dependencies?
13:08<sney>!deborphan
13:08<dpkg>deborphan is a package that will tell you what library packages you have installed that nothing's using. If you want remove all packages use 'deborphan | xargs apt-get -y remove --purge', or a nice tool to clean up grown debians. http://deb.li/3qpqF provides a nice guide to several more steps to reclaim big chunks of HDD. Ask me about <debfoster><autoremove><unmarkauto>.
13:09<sney>but none of these tricks will remove a package that was marked as manually installed
13:09<bleb>ah never mind, i dont have xfce4
13:09<imMute>sney: what does deorphan do that autoremove doesn't then??
13:10<bleb>but i do have xfce4-clipman and xfce4-clipman-plugin
13:11<sney>imMute: i'm not sure, I don't actually use it
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13:12<erle->firefox now complains on launch that which is deprecated :3
13:13<bleb>anyone know what c and p mean in the first column of aptitude why?
13:14<bleb>ok c means there are still config files, p means there is no trace of the package
13:15<bleb>so aptitude why xfce4-clipman-plugin shows that xfce4-goodies depends on it, but is not installed
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13:15<bleb>so there is no real explanation for why it's installed
13:15<poacher_>you could do it the right way using tasksel
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13:15<user>привет
13:15<bremner>!ru
13:15<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.oftc.net) - debian-russian@lists.debian.org
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13:15<bleb>poacher_: i'm planning to do that but i want to make sure i have done a thorough job of removing everything graphical
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13:16<bleb>apt purge xfce4 and apt autoremove did not remove xfce4-clipman-plugin
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13:16<bleb>i'll try deborphan
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13:17<bleb>deborphan shows a bunch of libraries, but i guess it is just for libraries
13:17<bleb>xfce4-clipman-plugin sure as hell wasnt installed manually
13:17<bleb>can anyone think of a removal command that could catch things like that?
13:17<poacher_>you could use flatpack to install gnome
13:18<tristero>bleb: deborphan --guess-all
13:18<poacher_>xorg
13:19<ham5urg>When I deinstall a package, there are sometimes dependent packages left/not deinstalled, which came with the first package. These packages are - I guess - recommended/suggested packages. Is it wise to deactivate auto-recommend/auto-suggest? The benefit would be to have a clean deinstall at all times.
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13:20<bremner>ham5urg: don't deactivate auto-recommends unless you are willing to deal with breakage
13:20<bleb>it's worth doing at least temporary for me
13:20<bleb>but i don't think i did it right
13:20<bleb>since it didn't work
13:20<bremner>things will stop working, and maintainers will (legitimately) shrug
13:21<ham5urg>I understand, is there a way to fake recommendencies to be dependencies?
13:22<poacher_>i bet flatpack will be the new linux universal package manager
13:23<bleb>i was following this but it could be out of date, from 2014 https://askubuntu.com/questions/351085/how-to-remove-recommended-and-suggested-dependencies-of-uninstalled-packages
13:23<poacher_>you need to use the force
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13:24<bleb>this documentation still has it though https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/aptitude/ch02s05s05.en.html#idm6659
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13:25<ham5urg>bleb, your link shows a command which is maybe fine: apt autoremove -o APT::Autoremove::RecommendsImportant=0 -o APT::Autoremove::SuggestsImportant=0
13:25<bleb>i'll try it
13:26<bleb>nope nothing to remove
13:27<bleb>still have xfce4-clipman-plugin
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13:27<bleb>does anyone have the interest/expertise to help me debug this?
13:28<ham5urg>I will try
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13:28<bleb>can i manually check if xfce4-clipman-plugin has been marked as manually installed?
13:28<poacher_>bleb: are you sure linux is for you?
13:28<bleb>that's what autoremove looks for right
13:29<poacher_>by now you would have reinstalled
13:29<ham5urg>bleb is right in my ezes
13:29<ham5urg>eyes
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13:31<bleb>yeah so a bunch of xfce4 stuff shows up in apt-mark showmanual
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13:31<bleb>"manual" must have a special meaning here
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13:32<ham5urg>bleb, is there a small package for testing deinstalling-recommends you recommend?
13:32<bleb>"showmanual... prints a list of manually installed packages"
13:33<bleb>but then it shows like 100 libraries
13:33<bleb>surely theres a bug here somewhere, in documentation if nowhere else
13:33<bleb>ham5urg: i don't understand the question
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13:34<poacher_>I do
13:35<bleb>that's really cool, dude
13:35<poacher_>for testing stuff i use flatpak
13:35<ham5urg>flatpak is not a great thing.
13:35<poacher_>the universall linux package maneger
13:36<poacher_>why not?
13:36<bleb>i guess i should just install alpine linux with zfs, then install debian in a chroot, then be able to roll back if i need to
13:36<poacher_>you a snap fan?
13:37<cOOl>yes its me , really lol
13:37<cOOl>bleb lol
13:37<ham5urg>I used void-linux and it's quite efficient. Void-linux is great but I would like to have their package-removing in debian.
13:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 1016] by debhelper
13:38<bleb>that's what i used before, but i thought hidpi support would be easier with debian
13:38<poacher_>sound like the best distro to void stuff
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13:38<bleb>seems like i have no hope of keeping the system clean
13:38<poacher_>its email client is named eVoid
13:39<bleb>and if i upgrade from a fresh 10 install to 11, i will probably have a bunch of crap that i can't easily get rid of
13:39<ham5urg>bleb, this is similar what I did. flatpak, snap I don't need, just an apt with keeping track which package are on the HD without excuses like recommends/suggests.
13:39<bleb>so i might as well just upgrade from my current debian 10 with cinnamon dust all over
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13:40<poacher_>bleb: why would you want remove stuff thats not the hurd maentality
13:40<bleb>ham5urg: how do you keep track of that
13:41<poacher_>ham5urg: you should migrate to slackware
13:41<ham5urg>I use copy-and-paste and put it into the docs of the specific server
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13:42<poacher_>copy-and-paste should be banned
13:42<poacher_>one should be required to type every command
13:43<poacher_>thats how you learn linux
13:43<trevorksmith>anyone know good SAS controller that would work with bullseye, or any to recommend
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13:44<poacher_>kubernets
13:44<bleb>is it worth making a bug report for apt-mark showmanual showing hundreds of libraries?
13:45<bleb>or is that sort of like whatever
13:45<jkc>flatpak is actually a great solution. Snaps, not so much, but its still a step in a better direction.
13:46<mason>trevorksmith: I think most LSI stuff is supported. I don't think any have been desupported, so there are many.
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13:47<ham5urg>bleb, this is indeed quite a bug for many years.
13:48<poacher_>what do you make of appimage
13:48<bleb>lets see if this works
13:48<bleb>apt-mark showmanual | xargs apt-mark auto && apt autoremove
13:48<poacher_>thats more of a arch linux thing
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13:48<mason>trevorksmith: In use here: 01:00.0 Serial Attached SCSI controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic SAS2116 PCI-Express Fusion-MPT SAS-2 [Meteor] (rev 02)
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13:49<poacher_>https://dev.to/bearlike/flatpak-vs-snaps-vs-appimage-vs-packages-linux-packaging-formats-compared-3nhl
13:49<mason>The packaging for that one says: LSI SAS9200-16e
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13:52<poacher_>appimage :Download an application, make it executable, and run! No need to install. No system libraries or system preferences are altered. Can also run in a sandbox like Firejail
13:53<poacher_>sounds good
13:53<bleb>just install each application in a different alpine chroot
13:53<poacher_>alpine?
13:53<bleb>thats what one weird guy suggested at least
13:53<poacher_>this is #deabian
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13:54<bleb>fine, then put each application in a different debian chroot
13:54<ham5urg>yes
13:54<bleb>that way you have a 100% debian system
13:54<poacher_>Mark Shuttleworth "AppImages are a pretty clean experience and I admire the work behind them."
13:54<bleb>and a fuck ton of bloat
13:54<poacher_>what douche
13:55<ham5urg>apt is all I need. The modern stuff brought me nothing
13:55<poacher_>ubuntu forces snaps on their users
13:56<poacher_>i belive its time for yet another linux universal package manneger one that uses virtualization
13:56<sney>( there are now n+1 competing standards 0
13:56<bleb>i'm afraid i uninstalled too much
13:56<poacher_>something like appimages on docker
13:56<bleb>so i'll be reinstalling buster anyway
13:57<bleb>bustin makes me feel good
13:57<poacher_>you dod that buster
13:57<poacher_> at least you will be quite for some time
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13:59<cOOl>poacher exactly my speech, apt is all i need ;)
13:59<cOOl>poacher_
13:59<bleb>poacher_: quite some time what?
14:00<poacher_>while you are installing
14:00<poacher_>you cant be on irc right?
14:00<bleb>it does say "this may take some time"
14:01<poacher_>they should update the installer
14:01<bleb>quite
14:01<poacher_>something like "this may take a moment"
14:02<bleb>i like this may take some time
14:02<poacher_>theyeven if it just takes a moment?
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14:02<cOOl>someone her who knows what are the xredentials to login on ftp.debian.org with filezilla or ftp client?
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14:03<cOOl>credentials*
14:03<bleb>thats why it says may
14:03<imMute>cOOl: use anonymous log in. also, debian mirrors don't all support FTP
14:03<cOOl>ok, no pas sport 21
14:03<cOOl>?
14:03<poacher_>my version also says MAY
14:04<imMute>cOOl: what?
14:04<cOOl>imMute you know a repo that allows
14:04<imMute>cOOl: do I know of a specific mirror that still has FTP enabled? no, I do not.
14:05<cOOl>so if i can reach it via http request it should be a way
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14:05<cOOl>another options, software in debian to sync or download a repo to local harddrives
14:05<cOOl>?
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14:07<bleb>have you seen the mirror list
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14:08<imMute>cOOl: why can't you just use HTTP to download what you need? and yes, apt-mirror can be used to set up and maintain your own mirror
14:08<imMute>cOOl: https://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror
14:08<imMute>and sorry, it was called ftpsync, not apt-mirror
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14:09<poacher_>its raid
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14:09<imMute>but note that the whole repo is quite large (hundreds of gigabytes for the minimum to a couple terabytes for everything)
14:09<cOOl>imMute im building a debian based distro about 2 years know for special needs. at moment i compile the distro by installing the modified .deb packages using hooks . but once released i have to build a own repo for that. im new in repo stuff, hosting repo..etc so i will first setup a debian mirror to tweak around and get the knowledge about it works
14:10<poacher_>https://www.mylinuxplace.com/building-raid-over-network-share/
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14:10<cOOl>ftpsync i will take a look thx.
14:10<poacher_>thats how they do it at the NSA
14:11<poacher_>thats what a friend of mine tell me
14:11<poacher_>distributed file systems
14:11<poacher_>thats were the futures at
14:12<poacher_>ask all the chia miners
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14:12<cOOl>at moment i have a root server running buster, and a directory listening ftp subdomain.. just need a clue to sync that completely .
14:12<poacher_>use resync
14:13<cOOl>ok i will check it ou thx
14:13<poacher_>[read the debian page
14:13<imMute>cOOl: ftpsync is for mirroring debian. if you want to run your own mirror, you need a different tool
14:13<poacher_>use resync
14:13<poacher_>thats per debian recomendation
14:13<poacher_>ftp is dead
14:14<cOOl>ok i will keep an eye on it
14:14<cOOl>thx
14:14<poacher_>keep it
14:14<poacher_>nop
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14:15<poacher_>im your servent
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14:16<cOOl>i have at moment about 150 base packets of debian modified . its a hassle while compiling to dont do mismatch or frankenstein or so.. should have a proper configured mirror for those and pin them in priority
14:16<cOOl>thx poacher_
14:16<cOOl>imMute to
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14:23<ham5urg>bleb, does https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/inixzz/how_to_get_apt_aturemove_to_remove_recommendations/g5c6b9q?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 can help you?
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14:28<poacher_>reddit is your friend
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14:46<bleb>ham5urg: too late already reinstalled
14:46<bleb>but the automatic vs manual flags were all fucked up so i don't think it would work
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14:58<jmux>Hi. I just did my bullseye update and I'm currently "cleaning up" the system after the reboot.
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14:59<jmux>I'm currently looking into my EFI grub and found some old /boot/efi/EFI/debian/fwupdx64.efi. It's definitly not the same then /usr/libexec/fwupd/efi/fwupdx64.efi.signed
15:00<jmux>Someone knows, how fwupd actually works? Should there be an updated fwupdx64.efe, or is it copied on demand?
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15:15<tepozoa>I don't have an EFI Debian handy, but in general the /boot/efi space is prepared by the GRUB efi install work, typically by copying the master packages from /usr/lib (libexec, etc.) over to /boot and /boot/efi - it feels like what you have is a /boot/efi iniital payload install that's simply older than the updated /usr package - unless you re-install grub things, /boot doesn't get
15:15<tepozoa>upgraded with just a grub package upgrade (usually that I've seen)
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15:22<jmux>tepozoa: all the other files in /boot/efi/EFI/debian/ have timestamps from today (AKA the update). I tried to find documentation, how the firmware update is actually done technically, but failed.
15:22<cOOl>for special needs i had good experience with compiling it with live-build - i had to install an older Lenovo Ideapad with efi boot 32 bit but had an amd64 arch cpu.. older stuff.. so the client asked about to do a proper solution on it. win 7 runs good until. but out dated. with 2 gb of ram win 10 is a hassle.. in linux, only debian and fedora was able to do the job ;) as debian lover i installed debian 11 at this moment in testing,
15:22<cOOl>self compiled with the apropriate efi 32 boot loaders configured and a clean xfce system amd64 only with the apps needed ... the client is happy. as in addition the printer was ready to go.. i was happy ;)
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15:25<doubledamage>privet lamugeri
15:26*jmux just found https://lvfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/intro.html#system-architecture; that talks about some fwup.efi I don't even have (according to dpkg -S).
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15:30<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
15:30<cOOl>hey
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15:30<cousin_luigi>Is there a clean way to check for updates and perform an action if any is available without using a convoluted combination of apt, sed and awk?
15:31<cousin_luigi>Well add bash to the list.
15:31<bremner>cousin_luigi: unnattended-upgrades ?
15:31<bremner>maybe with less n
15:32<cousin_luigi>bremner: Can it do dry runs?
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15:32<cousin_luigi>I mean, I don't want automatic updates, just automated checks.
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15:43<jmux>cousin_luigi: there is apt-config-auto-update. Never used it, but the describtion reads like it could match your requirements… no idea about the dry-runs
15:43*cousin_luigi googles
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15:56<tepozoa>jmux: (remember I don't have a device to look at) I *think* that fwupdate comes from a secondary set of packages - so it sounds like the other files with today timestamps are accounted for by the grub work, but specifically the fwupdate binary might be part of a different package (which would explain why not updated) - let me try and look at it for a second and see if that
15:56<tepozoa>thought/idea makes sense
15:56<tepozoa>fwupd-amd64-signed - Tools to manage UEFI firmware updates (signed) (apt-cache)
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15:58<tepozoa>https://salsa.debian.org/efi-team/fwupd/-/blob/debian/debian/fwupd.postinst <- check out line number 43
15:58<tepozoa>rm -f /boot/efi/EFI/$EFIDIR/fwup$EFI_NAME.efi
15:58<tepozoa>yeah so *this* package handles that exact file
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16:01<tepozoa>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/amd64/fwupd-amd64-signed/filelist <- there's our fwupdx64.efi.signed in the finished package
16:01<tepozoa>"in theory" you should be able to copy that file over and "ugprade" it
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16:13<jmux>tepozoa: thanks for the work. Since that rm -f is in the postinst, I guesss I can simply delete it to do the upgrade
16:16<bleb>uh oh, I changed the xfce defaults and now I can't change them back
16:16<bleb>better reinstall
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16:23*jmux … it's strange that it didn't work. Running the command from EFIDIR results in the correct path… so the rm -f should have worked.
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16:24<tepozoa>jmux: what that is specifically is an EFI program that can be launched from the EFI bootloader itself to upgrade firmware - before the OS is booted for example. There are not a lot of EFI programs in use but this is one of them - it's not technically necessary for a normal EFI boot to work
16:25<tepozoa>(/boot/efi is a vfat / win32 format filesystem and the programs are Windows style PEs - Microsoft had fingers in this with Intel)
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16:27<cOOl>tepozoa the best way is to compile it on your own with live-build. so the files and oly those needed are in the binary or firmware folder - you can choose the win-32 loader or not..
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16:28<jmux>tepozoa: I'm aware. I was puzzled by exactly this efi file. And I should have run https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=fwupdx64.efi&mode=path&suite=oldstable&arch=any
16:29<jmux>And again thanks for that detective work :-)
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16:30<tepozoa>_nod_ I just happen to recognize it, Dell is hot to trot with this specific subject. It really does make sense for them - now they can make one type of firmware upgrade that works both from Real Windows(tm) and EFI win32 launch
16:31<tepozoa>I still keep a freedos boot image around to upgrade Dell firmware on laptops, they don't make direct Linux binaries for the low-grade consumer stuff
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17:19<spawacz>I'm trying to configure postfix for the first time and im confused what is it asking me about in this step:
17:19<spawacz>Mail for the 'postmaster', 'root', and other system accounts needs to be redirected to the user account of the actual system administrator.
17:19<spawacz>Root and postmaster mail recipient:
17:19<spawacz>what should i fill in?
17:20<spawacz>just root?
17:20<berto>7quit
17:20<tepozoa>you put in your login name, like spawacz
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17:20<tepozoa>it's saying "we don't deliver mail to root, choose another user to receive root's email"
17:20<spawacz>the main non root account of the administrator?
17:20<spawacz>ahh
17:20<tepozoa>yeah but this is sort of on you
17:20<spawacz>i doubt anyone would send mail to root
17:20<spawacz>yeah i get it now
17:20<spawacz>thanks
17:21<spawacz>:)
17:21<tepozoa>there are a few "required" email addresses in 2021
17:21<petn-randall>spawacz: cron does, and many other old school system services.
17:21<tepozoa>abuse@, hostmaster@ and so forth - you can choose to route each one to anywhere you want. ("required" in parens because there's no law, it's a social thing)
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17:22<tepozoa>but yeah cron by default needs to use root, so don't throw root's email away
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17:22<freem>Hi. I debootstrapped debian 11 on some alternate partitions of my system today, then installed the various packages I usually install, including runit-init (note that I'm running debian 10 based on runit-init right now, I know what it involves, but I never had troubles of that kind). When I attempt to boot it, I have a "permission denied when trying to access /run/rootdev" (or something like that) error message. Searching around, I could find this
17:22<freem>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=701936 old bug report, which might be partially related despite being related to btrfs. Have anyone heard of such kind of problems?
17:22<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/701936 in btrfs-tools (closed, sid): «btrfs can't fsck /run/rootdev on boot with sysvinit»; severity: critical; opened: 2013-02-28; last modified: 2013-08-27.
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17:24<spawacz>okay, now for outgoing mail I need a dovecot from what i read?
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17:24<tepozoa>no, that's Postfix (SMTP)
17:24<tepozoa>Dovecot is IMAP/POP3
17:24<petn-randall>spawacz: For outgoing mail you need postfix, for incoming mail you need dovecot, if you intend to read it via IMAP client.
17:25<petn-randall>spawacz: Just a heads-up, maintaining a mail stack is a *lot* of work, because it's a 50 year old standard that just got more stuff and more stuff added on top.
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17:25<spawacz>yeah the other way around
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17:26<petn-randall>spawacz: Especially when you want to avoid getting spam, or want to avoid getting on a spam list yourself.
17:26<spawacz>but maintaining own email is also that much work?
17:26-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:26<spawacz>oof
17:26<petn-randall>That's what I said, yes.
17:26*tepozoa nods - I host with a provider, spammers have ruined everything
17:26<petn-randall>IMHO it's far more work than maintaining e.g. a webserver.
17:27<petn-randall>Especially delivery issues are a thing, too, when you don't have it correctly set up, etc.
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17:28<spawacz>ports 993 and 143 have to be available from outside world but 25 not, right?
17:28<petn-randall>spawacz: If you don't intend on receiving emails, you don't need 25/tcp available.
17:29<petn-randall>143/tcp is not used nowadays.
17:29<spawacz>because 993 is encrpyted and 143 not, right?
17:30<petn-randall>You will need 587/tcp for sending authenticated mail, 25/tcp for receiving mail, and 993/tcp for reading mail via IMAP.
17:30<tepozoa>you should stop and go read some email setup guides, this is foundational information
17:30<spawacz>right
17:31-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*@45.247.76.72] by debchange
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17:31<vv221>spawacz, my advice is not to try to setup all at once.
17:32<vv221>Start with basic SMTP only, for sending and receiving e-mails.
17:32<vv221>And only once this is done, you can start looking at IMAP.
17:32<vv221>When this is working, you might want to add some antispam.
17:32<vv221>etc.
17:33<vv221>Trying to setup the full thing in one go can be very discouraging, while doing it step by step is much easier.
17:33<du>Hello, can anyone tell me if upgrading from debian 10 to 11 is a good idea? It shows 1357 packages can be upgraded, I'm afraid it may break something
17:33<vv221>It is a good idea, as long as you follow the upgrade guide ;)
17:33<freem>du: depends on your system, but it's more likely a good idea
17:34<petn-randall>du: read the upgrade guide, and yes, it's recommended because 11 is stable now.
17:34<vv221>https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.html
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17:34<du>Where is the guide available?
17:34<vv221>Just before your last message ;P
17:34<du>ah thanks
17:34<vv221>And once the upgrade is done, it is a good idea to read the post-upgrade advices too: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.html
17:34<du>sure!
17:35<vv221>If you feel curious you can go through the other chapters too, but with only these two you have an almost guaranteed smooth upgrade ;)
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17:38<freem>reading again the link I gave, I've found "compatible with the standard /sbin/fsck options
17:38<freem>and behaviour, including being able to fsck a read-only mount". This seems related to my problem, since the boot error message says the root FS should be writable or the command should be issued as root (and since this is early, I suppose it is indeed run as root?)
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17:51<spawacz>that's what im doing, don worry
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17:57<spawacz>it works :D
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18:24<freem>guess nobody knows anything about why a debootstrapped system would refuse to boot because it tries to fsck / ?
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18:39<z386>i love debian!
18:40<bentham><3
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19:03<tjcarter>Of course, Debian is the best and everybody knows it! ❤️
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19:13<Knorrie>yay
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19:36<mastertest>hello, is there any way to import the apt catalog from other distro to debian?
19:36<sarnold>sure, just add the deb lines for it to your sources
19:37<mastertest>how do i do it
19:37<sarnold>it'd be worth figuring out how the pinning works to make it less likely to be used
19:37<mastertest>4r3 y0u a b0t?
19:38<mastertest>are you a bot or a person?
19:38<sarnold>heh, how do you tellt eh difference?
19:38<bremner>mastertest: the short answer is no. What are you actually trying to accomplish?
19:38<tjcarter>dpkg, frankendebian
19:38<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian and <reinstall>
19:39<tjcarter>Be very careful when adding packages from outside Debian to Debian
19:39<sarnold>mastertest: there's some directions at the very end of this page that show something very similar https://www.jelmer.uk/fresh-builds.html
19:39<tjcarter>I'm not saying don't do it (I do it), but be very careful.
19:39<mastertest>downloading some packages from a distro that i used
19:40<mastertest>lets say for an example install riseupvpn in kali
19:40<tjcarter>(I use a thing called voxin, I've snagged Linux Mint's desktop themes, and the VideoDownloadHelper browser extension has a thing called coapp one would likely want to installed…)
19:41<mastertest>there is a package which i struggle that i have installed in whonix but it doesnt find it in kali
19:41<mastertest>dont remember the name of that package
19:41<mastertest>dough
19:41<abrotman>why not just use ... kali?
19:42<mastertest>i use it, but i need to install riseupvpn in it
19:42<mastertest>which is easily installed in whonix
19:42-!-illwieckz [~illwieckz@81-67-152-104.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
19:42-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #debian #debianfr #oolite @#oolite-dev #haiku #radeon #dri-devel
19:43<tjcarter>So you're asking #debian about installing whonix packages on kali?
19:43<mastertest>they are based in the same base
19:43<tjcarter>yes, but this channel doesn't even support Debian testing and unstable.
19:43<mastertest>they are a build of debian
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19:44<mastertest>which one supports it?
19:44<tjcarter>my advice would be to grab the source package from whonix and some dev tools from whatever kali calls them and recompile the package
19:45-!-hbautista [~hbautista@2806:2f0:8180:1543:ce08:c4d7:ae73:19a3] has joined #debian
19:45-!-hbautista is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
19:45<mastertest>another thing that im new to this
19:45<mastertest>what are the ops?
19:46<mastertest>debchange and debhelper
19:46<mastertest>the two green dots
19:46<tjcarter>those are bots
19:46<blast007>kali and whonix are *not* "a build of Debian". They are based on Debian, but they are not Debian.
19:46<blast007>!based on debian
19:46<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
19:47<blast007>!kali
19:47<dpkg>Kali Linux https://kali.org/ is a security/penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but is different enough that we don't provide support in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or https://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian> and read https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
19:47-!-jmatos [~jmatos@00028665.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting.]
19:47<blast007>!whonix
19:47<dpkg>Whonix is a Linux distribution based on Debian, distributed as two virtual machine images. It is not supported in #debian; ask me about <based on debian>. http://whonix.org/ #whonix on irc.oftc.net. If you are new to linux try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian
19:48<blast007>the green dot means they're channel operators
19:48<blast007>(so they can run some commands for things like bans or kicks)
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19:49<mastertest_>im here again
19:49<Sqrt{not}>mastertest, dpkg told you where there is an IRC channel for kali support. you will get better answers there.
19:49<mastertest_>so the best way would be to recompile it?
19:49<Sqrt{not}>!kali
19:49<dpkg>Kali Linux https://kali.org/ is a security/penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but is different enough that we don't provide support in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or https://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian> and read https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
19:49<Sqrt{not}>mastertest_, please ask in the kali channel
19:50<Sqrt{not}>mastertest_, or ask in the kali forums
19:50<mastertest_>ok
19:50<cybiko123>Hi all. I wrote a script that creates a LUKS-encrypted root LV and accompanying boot LV for use with Xen (debootstrap, chroot, install GRUB, update-initramfs, etc.) Been working from Wheezy through Buster. Since changing the generated sources to Bullseye, cryptsetup and associated tools are not added to the generated initramfs, so new VMs fail to boot. Any idea on what might have changed?
19:50<tjcarter>Actually kali forums would be my recommendation. That helps the next person who has the same question
19:50<mastertest_>another thing, why your text is green?
19:51<Sqrt{not}>because I mention your nickname
19:51<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: he did say he was new. 😁
19:51<mastertest_>yea
19:51<Sqrt{not}>yes, we were all new at one time
19:52<tjcarter>mastertest_: a small piece of advice on the Kali irc channel … If someone tells you to run some command, especially in a PM, don't.
19:52<mastertest_>i have been triying to work arround this package
19:52<mastertest_>yeah?
19:52<abrotman>mastertest_: Have you installed Debian yet?
19:52-!-format_c [~format_c@0002ca8c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: format_c]
19:52<mastertest_>a last thing
19:53<mastertest_>what is the socks5 hexchat error 4?
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19:53<abrotman>mastertest_: Please ask the appropriate channel for your distro, this isn't it.
19:54<tjcarter>Kali is a "hacker" distribution. Not that one cannot hack using any distribution or that hacking is necessarily nefarious … but it attracts people who don't mind taking advantage of naiveté and you're greaner than your nick highlighted rexponses.
19:54<tjcarter>Don't make it too easy for someone to screw with you.
19:54<Sqrt{not}>cybiko123, did you check the release notes? https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/
19:54<tjcarter>(That applies to any irc channel, actually.)
19:54<abrotman>No need to elaborate, it's just not supported here
19:54-!-mastertest [~mastertes@8VQAADBAB.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:55<mastertest_>yeah i know
19:55<mastertest_>im behind 7proxys good luck xd
19:55-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
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19:56<abrotman>mastertest_: Please go ask the channel for your distro. This channel supports Debian, not its derivatives.
19:56<cybiko123>Sqrt{not}: I did, actually. I couldn't find anything related to cryptsetup or initramfs
19:57<tjcarter>abrotman: Wasn't trying to support the distribution, just the user not getting pwned because someone's "helping" a deer in the headlights. I tried and he laughed it off so *shrug*
19:58<tjcarter>Meddle not in the affairs of dragons etc.
19:58<Sqrt{not}>cybiko123, that's my only idea, I don't know about VMs.
19:58<cybiko123>Fair enough, thanks
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20:01<tjcarter>cybiko123: VMs are something I didn't really get deep into myself, but I can say that my own setup on my primary machine is ext4 on a couple VGs (separated by namespace and disk pool) on LUKS-containered PVs … I used this setup on Debian stretch, on Mint 19, 20, bullseye, and sid at various points over the past couple of years.
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20:03<tjcarter>cybiko123: I found that neither Calamares nor the old debian-installer is really set up to install to a partition inside that mess without screwing it up, sadly. My most recent installation was performed from a Cinnamon live environment using debootstrap and doing the rest by hand. 😇
20:04<tjcarter>You might need to tune a few things … I'm just not immediately sure what, because of the VM aspect.
20:08<cybiko123>Yeah, it's strange. Old VMs I upgraded from Buster run fine, so my guess is that something's missing in the chroot jail. Appreciate the response
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20:19<mastertest_>hi
20:20<mastertest_>how do i use debian but without the desktop gui?
20:21<sarnold>probably the installer makes it easy to skip the gui
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20:21<mastertest_>like only command line whebn booted
20:21<mastertest_>when
20:21<sarnold>I haven't seen it in a while, but loads of people use debian on servers
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20:22<mastertest_>yes but that in a pc ofline
20:22<mastertest_>offline
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20:25<grove>Is your question about installing Debian without a GUI (that's easy, almost always what I do, just don't choose any when asked) or using an installed system without a GUI? (The answer to the latter depend on what you want to use the system for)
20:26<sarnold>oh good question, I hadn't interpreted it with the second meaning
20:26<aloo_shu>sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target
20:26<aloo_shu>I'd think
20:26<Sqrt{not}>aha, a 3rd option.
20:27<grove>Isn't that the default after any (succesful) installation?
20:27<mastertest_>basically what i want is to use all the power of the machine without wasting it into pretty graphics
20:28<abrotman>!ig
20:28<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian 11 "Bullseye" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/installmanual . See also <errata> and <bullseye release notes>.
20:29<grove>mastertest_: That's accomplished by just not installing a GUI.
20:30<aloo_shu>(provided you got sudo, otherwise become root)
20:30<mastertest_>in the part where they ask you to install an interface like kdfe or gnome, i uncheck all?
20:30<mastertest_>thats what you mean?
20:31<grove>Yes
20:31<mastertest_>thx
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20:33<grid>hey, so pam_mail.so on bullseye seems to output 'You have no mail' versus buster 'No mail'. afaict there have not been any changes to pam.conf.d. any idea why the message has changed?
20:34<grid>i checked pam source code and didn't see anything recent that would explain it
20:36<sarnold>grid: https://github.com/linux-pam/linux-pam/commit/0fb1f5b701432b6d9f40754b69f2fe0dc6f75103
20:36<grid>hmm how did i miss that
20:36<grid>i was checking salsa.debian.org...
20:36<sarnold>it's three years old, depending upon how you checked..
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20:38<mastertest_>i didnt found the full install debian offline iso
20:38<mastertest_>and it existed in the past
20:38<mastertest_>h
20:39<abrotman>Did you read the installation guide yeT?
20:39<abrotman>it answers many basic questions
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20:40<mastertest_>no, the iso that i have only found i the webinstall
20:41<jhutchins>!ig
20:41<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian 11 "Bullseye" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/installmanual . See also <errata> and <bullseye release notes>.
20:41<mastertest_>and it is very light, but uses internet, but in the past i used to use a 4.8gb iso that contained all
20:41<grid>hmm i think i did see the _("string") in pam_mail.c before. i had just assumed buster shipped with that as well
20:43<grid>shrug. https://salsa.debian.org/vorlon/pam/-/blob/1.3.1-5/modules/pam_mail/pam_mail.c#L297
20:44<grid>i guess it'll just take some getting used to. 'No mail' was different enough from 'You have new mail' at a glance that it didn't warrant a second look
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20:49<mastertest_>bye
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20:51<sirmanuel>HI guys
20:51<sirmanuel>who can help to configurate my cr reader to can waork?
20:51<sirmanuel>cd reader
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20:53<cc>sirmanuel: hi, they usually just work
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20:55<sirmanuel>cc ?
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20:55<cc>sirmanuel: ?
20:56<cc>what exactly do you need to configure about your cd reader?
20:56<grid>okay what's weird is that my ubuntu 20.04 system has 1.3.1-5ubuntu4.2 installed which shows 'No mail' but apt source libpam-modules pulls down 1.4.0 which has the new msg
20:56<grid>anyways, mystery is solved. thanks
20:57<sarnold>apt policy libpam-modules will probably help address the different versions
20:58<sarnold>oh, hah, no it doesn
20:59<grid>yeah, i'm actually dumb. yes apt source DID pull down pam_1.4.0-9 into ~ on my ubuntu system, but only because i ran it from within a bullseye chroot
20:59<cc>dpkg: spanish
20:59<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/
20:59<cc>sirmanuel: ^
20:59<tjcarter>hm, I've often wondered something about pam … is it a doable thing to set up ask for a password unless TWO other things are satisfied?
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21:00<tjcarter>eg. PIN plus smartcard or password?
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21:03<Sqrt{not}>sirmanuel, what are you trying to do with your CD reader? what did you try, to make that happen? what happens instead?
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21:17<marwanwaleed>hi
21:17<marwanwaleed>hiiiii
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21:18<marwanwaleed>hi jochum
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21:22<Sqrt{not}>hi marwanwaleed, do you have a debian question?
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21:27<sussudio>Sqrt{not}: is this the first time you noticed marwan the spammer?
21:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 997] by debhelper
21:28<sirmanuel>Sqrt{not} how can i share you a screenshot?
21:28<marwanwaleed>i need help
21:28<marwanwaleed>for debian
21:29<sarnold>sirmanuel: imgur.com is popular, there's other choices
21:29<marwanwaleed>iam hacked from hacker
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21:34<sirmanuel>Sqrt{not} see it > https://imgur.com/a/9WKtXAv
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21:34<sirmanuel>when I trt to access to my direct access to cdrom reader
21:35<sirmanuel><sarnold> thank you
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21:42<Sqrt{not}>sirmanuel, what is on this cdrom? what program did you use to try to mount it?
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21:52<sirmanuel><Sqrt{not}> there is a document. I use the Nemo to try to mount doing click on direct access
21:52<sirmanuel>on Devices section
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22:09<Sqrt{not}>sirmanuel, Did nemo try to auto-mount your CD-ROM? Do you know how this CD-ROM was created? Can you show a screenshot of where you clicked?
22:11<jhutchins>!paste
22:11<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
22:11<sirmanuel><Sqrt{not}> yes NEmo.It was created like a DAta cd. https://imgur.com/a/tUssNwI
22:11<jhutchins>sirmanuel: imgbb or imgur
22:12<jhutchins>!nemo
22:12<dpkg>Nemo is a fork of <Nautilus> version 3.4. Its goal is to extend the <Cinnamon> user experience to desktop and file management. https://github.com/linuxmint/nemo
22:14<Sqrt{not}>sirmanuel, can you show the entire screen in your screenshot?
22:15*tjcarter encounters yet another "I look down on 'boomers' with their bloated stacking WMs and DEs and Wayland" on YouTube and ponders something minimal and stacking on Wayland just to watch their heads explode. 😈
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22:21<sirmanuel>https://imgur.com/FzwOuvo
22:21<sarnold>tjcarter: sway?
22:22<sarnold>sirmanuel: is that number in your telegram window supposed to be 'private'?
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22:23<sirmanuel>it is just a messages count not number phone or something like that
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22:23<sarnold>sirmanuel: ah good good
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22:24<sirmanuel><Sqrt{not}> https://imgur.com/FzwOuvo
22:25<dvs>sirmanuel: and you are part of the cdrom group?
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22:26<sirmanuel>dvs yes
22:28<sirmanuel>https://imgur.com/SjTRxWp
22:28<sirmanuel>https://imgur.com/93qrNSQ
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22:41-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
22:43<jhutchins>sirmanuel: You would probably get more useful information working in the console. See if you can mount it as root, see if you can read the file, run file <path to file> to see what the system thinks it is.
22:43<sarnold>would dmesg have more details about what it thinks is on the cd?
22:43<sarnold>I haven't used a cd in ages..
22:48<jhutchins>sarnold: It might show the filesystem - it's not always ISO-9660
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22:48<sirmanuel>what I need to do?
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22:49<jhutchins>sirmanuel: A first step would be to load the CD, then run demsg.
22:49<sirmanuel>donde
22:49<sirmanuel>cd is loaded
22:49<sirmanuel>demsg + ?
22:50<sarnold>dmesg
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22:52-!-greknod is "nod" on #debian
22:53<sirmanuel>https://termbin.com/dh1e
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22:53-!-mangix_ is "Rosen Penev" on #nouveau #debian #llvm #msys2 #$nouveau
22:53<sirmanuel><sarnold>
22:53<sirmanuel><jhutchins>
22:55<sarnold>oh my
22:56<sirmanuel>xD
22:57<sarnold>sirmanuel: so... those ACPI errors aren't usual. try to upgrade your firmware with fwupdmgr update
22:58<sarnold>sirmanuel: if that doesn't work, then check the manufacturer's website for firmware update tools, etc
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23:02<sarnold>sirmanuel: the cdrom issue, the UDF driver is reporting there's no partitions on the disc. Maybe that's important, maybe not, I'm not sure; try mount -tiso9660 /dev/cdrom /mnt (or a different directory in place of /mnt)
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23:05<sirmanuel>https://termbin.com/omag <sarnold>
23:06<sarnold>sirmanuel: dang :(
23:06<sirmanuel> ACPI errors continuining same after the code
23:07<sarnold>sirmanuel: try 'file -s /dev/cdrom'
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23:07<sirmanuel>'/dev/cdrom: symbolic link to sr0
23:07<sirmanuel>'
23:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 990] by debhelper
23:08<sarnold>"thanks, file"
23:08<sarnold>okay, try file -s /dev/sr0
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23:09<sirmanuel>'/dev/sr0: ERROR: cannot read `/dev/sr0' (Input/output error)
23:09<sirmanuel>'
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23:09-!-marwanwaleed is "marwanwaleed" on #debian
23:09<marwanwaleed>hi
23:10<marwanwaleed>hello
23:10-!-mbond [~mbond@2600:1700:65a0:b550::35] has quit [Quit: mbond]
23:10<marwanwaleed>can anybody hear me
23:11<marwanwaleed>iam hack website
23:11<dvs>marwanwaleed: we can't help you if you've been hacked
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23:12-!-BenNZ is "Ben" on #vbox #debian #debian-next
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23:13-!-Celelibi is "Alors, il est beau mon whois ?" on #syslinux #idle #llvm #debian-next #linux #debian
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23:17<sirmanuel><sarnold> thnak you friend, I goingo to sleep
23:17<sirmanuel>to rest
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23:24<sarnold>aww :(
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23:28-!-nicolas17 is "Nicolás Alvarez" on #debian #llvm #osm-latam #ninja-build #debian-kde #osm-ar
23:29<nicolas17>hi
23:29<nicolas17>I was upgrading from buster to bullseye, and it froze in the configure step
23:30<nicolas17>looking at 'ps auxf' on a separate tty, I see "apt upgrade" -> "dpkg --status-fd 44 --configure --frontend" --> "perl -w /usr/share/debconf/frontend /var/lib/dpkg/info/memtest86+.postinst" -> "[memtest86+.post] <defunct>", the last being in zombie state
23:31<nicolas17>should I try killing the perl process?
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23:35<sarnold>nicolas17: is there a prompt on the 'main' terminal that needs to be answered?
23:37<nicolas17>no, last stuff I see is grub-probe trying to find my OSs, then "Adding boot menu entry for EFI firmware configuration" and "done"
23:37<nicolas17>and apt's progress bar at 54%
23:37<sarnold>:(
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23:38<sarnold>I'd try hitting enter there before killing perl, but you might not have a whole lot of choice
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23:39<nicolas17>good thing I was paranoid enough to make an LVM snapshot before starting...
23:39<sarnold>yay! :D
23:40<sarnold>it's probably recoverable with proper application of apt install -f and dpkg-configure -a and so on but that's not a whole lot of fun
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23:42<nicolas17>shrinking the filesystem to make space for the snapshot took an annoying amount of time, guess I had a silly amount of files 'at the end' of the disk
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23:42-!-newtons is "newtons" on #debian
23:43<nicolas17>SIGINT on the perl process caused an error but started running the configure steps of the other packages
23:46<sarnold>nice
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23:48-!-tohoyn is "Tommi Höynälänmaa" on #debian
23:49<tohoyn>I just sent a gpg key to keyserver.ubuntu.com. How long does it take the key to be available in the server?
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23:55<tohoyn>problem solved. the key is now in the server.
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23:57-!-LouWestin is "Lou the Dungeon Capturer" on #vbox #oftc #linode #debian-next #debian #alpine-linux
23:59<nicolas17>rebooted, now my sddm theme is broken...
---Logclosed Fri Aug 27 00:00:12 2021