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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-08-30

---Logopened Mon Aug 30 00:00:16 2021
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00:00-!-seeS is "Craig" on #debian
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00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
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00:03-!-codenoid is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
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00:16-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
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00:19<charles_harris24>how do i find channels
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02:30<gw>im new to this
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02:30<crawler>welcome to this
02:31<gw>how do i create custon keyboard short cuts
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02:32<grawity>depends on what you need them to do
02:32<grawity>and on which desktop environment you're using, generally
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02:34<grawity>if you just want it to run a program, see Settings > Keyboard > Customize shortcuts (or somewhere roughly there, it moved around between versions)
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05:00<twb>Is there an option I can put into /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ so it'll- never mind, it's APT::Get::Show-Versions
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05:28<twb>Where is the minimum RAM requirement for Debian 11 on AMD64? I can't see it anywhere in
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05:29<twb>Found it:
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05:44<EmleyMoor>I am trying to get SecureBoot working on virtual machines but cannot get confirmation that it has. Have tried this: - but not confirmed working, on a new setup of Debian. (Obviously I want to use it with other guest systems but I am most familiar with Debian)
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05:51<twb>EmleyMoor: this is libvirtd+qemu-system-x86_64 ?
05:52<EmleyMoor>I don't know of libvirtd - but the latter, yes.
05:52<twb>EmleyMoor: note that if you use EFI (i.e. ovmf there) for your VMs, you will lose the ability to snapshot them at all
05:52<twb>At least as at Debian 10 circa 2019. I have'nt checked recently.
05:53<EmleyMoor>twb: I'm not, at present, bothered about that. There are things I need to check out about how things work under this, which is why I am doing so now, not in 3-6 months
05:53<twb>EmleyMoor: OK
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05:54<twb>EmleyMoor: I haven't tested all the parts together, but I *think* the main thing is "be running debian 11" and "make sure ovmf is installed"
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05:55<twb>libvirtd will automatically handle the OVMF pflash stuff for you, *if* you explicitly set the VM to "EFI" instead of "BIOS" when it is created
05:55<twb>virt-manager can do this; gnome-boxes can't. Once the VM exists, both can start/stop it
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05:59<EmleyMoor>You *think* correctly and both are true in my case, but on checking dmesg | grep secure, I get: secureboot: Secure boot could not be determined (mode 0). I don't use any of that libvirtd/virt-mnager stuff.
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06:08<twb>Unfortunately all my nearby systems run ZFS so have secureboot disabled
06:08<twb>So I can't help more, I think
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07:43<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: hi! so, how can I install "nvidia-driver=450"? I added the Buster repository to "sources.list", but I get errors :(
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08:02<towo^work>qohfyrvsknxm, there is no version 450
08:03<towo^work>you have to give the exact version after the "="
08:05<twb>qohfyrvsknxm: try running "rmadison nvidia-driver" to see what versions exist in Debian
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08:25<tubnob>are there any guides to install debian in an external disk?
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08:26<twb>tubnob: it's basically identical to an internal disk
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08:28<tubnob>can you even use guided gui installation to do that?
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08:28<tubnob>i'm not sure if usb storage needs special setting to become bootable
08:30<twb>depends on your architecture &c
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08:34<crawler>tubnob nothing specially different for installation on USB. I tried installed on USB flash sticks and USB external drives, using both GUI and text installer
08:35<tubnob>crawler does usb storage show up as a disk in gui installation/
08:35<crawler>however you have to keep an eye on swap usage if you are going to use that USB stick in a system with low memory. Swapping kills flash sticks
08:35<crawler>yes it does
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08:37<crawler>tubnob to be specific, I did this in buster. I didn't try bullseye installer yet
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08:38<tubnob>how does swapping kill flash memories?
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08:40<crawler>Swapping involves excessive writing on disk, and flash sticks or any drive that is based on flash cells are know to have a finite times of writes
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08:40<crawler>Please, excuse my broken English.
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08:42<tubnob>i see
08:42<tubnob>this is true for ssd as well right?
08:43<tubnob>isn't ram also made by flash cells?
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08:43<twb>tubnob: different technology
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09:20<FelixActually>How do I exclude files in a terminal operation? For instance, ignoring files with a certain file extension
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09:22<jkc>Depends on the command.
09:22<crawler>each command has its own way of exclusion
09:22<jkc>What is your end goal?
09:22<FelixActually>Copying only files without the extension .xz to another folder
09:24<crawler>I would do it using `find`
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09:26<jkc>Something like `find . -maxdepth 1 -not -name '*.xz' -exec cp {} /destination \;`
09:27<Habbie>i would probably mv *.xz away temporarily ;)
09:27<jkc>The maxdepth thing is so that it only operates on THIS directory, not subdirectories. Omit `-maxdepth 1` if that's not what you want.
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09:29<FelixActually>I think I'll do the mv suggestion, but what's that "-exec cp {} /destination \;" for?
09:30<jkc>It actually does the copy.
09:30<jkc>And moving a ton of files is a solution that ignores the tools available to you that do THIS EXACT THING.
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09:31<FelixActually>I already explained that those tools confuse me and don't do exactly what I want
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09:32<FelixActually>But I only need to do this once anyway
09:32<FelixActually>The files are compressed as .xz because the last backup tool I used did that
09:32<qohfyrvsknxm>towo^work: I get errors:
09:33<jkc>So learn how to use the tools.
09:33<jkc>`find . -maxdepth 1 -not -name '*.xz' -exec cp {} /destination \;` translates exactly how it's read. "Find every file in this directory. Don't look in subdirectories. Don't look at files ending in .xz. For every file you find, copy it to /destination."
09:34<FelixActually>So -exec is a find argument which executes another command?
09:34<FelixActually>What's the difference between that and piping?
09:35<jkc>There are cases where the output of the find command can be longer than the maximum input length of the command on the other end of the pipe.
09:35<jkc>And 'cp' doesn't accept a pipe.
09:35<olasd>jkc, FelixActually: you could even use + instead of ; in the find -exec to pass multiple arguments at once
09:37<jkc>FelixActually: The {} bit says 'put the found item's name here'
09:37<jkc>So every time `find` executes the -exec command, it will substitute each found file wherever {} is.
09:37<FelixActually>I see
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09:50<qohfyrvsknxm>twb: Thx, I need >= 450 and I chose 418.197.02-1, but I get errors -
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09:53<jkc>qohfyrvsknxm: You chose a version far older than you requirement?
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09:54<qohfyrvsknxm>jkc: yeah, because in the new versions on my equipment it's not possible to control the brightness of the screen
09:54<jkc>And what debian version are you running?
09:55<qohfyrvsknxm>jkc: 11.0 Bullseye
09:55<jkc>The version you're demanding isn't available in bullseye.
09:55<twb>qohfyrvsknxm: sorry, I hate nvidia so I can't be bothered helping people work around their evil
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09:56<qohfyrvsknxm>twb: :-(
09:56<qohfyrvsknxm>twb: me too
09:56<jkc>And I would suggest trying to fix the backlight problem rather than trying to install frankly ancient drivers.
10:00<qohfyrvsknxm>jkc: I've been trying to solve the problem for the third day, people with my laptop say on the forums* that it happened after v455, although everything works properly on Arch, but I don't really like the distribution itself... * -
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10:01<jkc>qohfyrvsknxm: The version in bullseye is after the fixed driver was released.
10:01<qohfyrvsknxm>jkc: I have no idea why this is happening with Debian :(
10:01<jkc>Try that.
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10:02<FelixActually>twb: It's not like AMD is any better though
10:02<FelixActually>We need libre hardware
10:03<twb>FelixActually: that's why I run i9xx
10:03<qohfyrvsknxm>jkc: I've already tried it, but didn't help. several owners of my laptop (Lenovo Y540) also say that it didn't work for them either. . .
10:03<FelixActually>What's i9xx?
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10:05<qohfyrvsknxm>jkc: well, to be honest, I'm already tired, my eyes hurt every time I look at such a bright picture ☀️
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10:13<Sqrt{not}>qohfyrvsknxm, last time I paid attention to your questions, you said you know you can control this via the software methods other writers have suggested, but you don't want to do it that way, instead you must do it via keyboard keys.
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10:54<RoyK>,v libapache2-mod-scgi
10:54<judd>Package: libapache2-mod-scgi on amd64 -- buster: 1.13-1.1; stretch: 1.13-1.1
10:58<RoyK>seemms things like rtorrent requires libapache2-mod-scgi, which seems to be gone from debian bullseye - any idea what hppened to it?
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11:01<tepozoa>libscgi-perl ?
11:01<tepozoa>libhttp-request-ascgi-perl is the other hit for "scgi"
11:01<RoyK>doesn't look like it /usr/lib/apache2/modules/ ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, BuildID[sha1]=3e2a0ef0257b3300b75216af1189d5ffce559638, stripped
11:02<RoyK>like the one I asked the bot about above
11:02*tepozoa nods
11:03<tepozoa> <- it looks like it got compiled for... mips?!
11:06<judd>Bug in (closed, sid, bullseye): «RM: scgi -- RoQA; python2-only; leaf package; last release in 2014»; severity: normal; opened: 2020-01-13; last modified: 2020-03-10.
11:07<RoyK>any idea what can be used inestead?
11:08<tepozoa>afraid not, never heard of this - just helping you out with the "why"
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11:08<RoyK>tepozoa: thanks
11:09<tepozoa>rtorrent does not list this package in Depends in bullseye...?
11:09<tepozoa>what task are you doing that got the error?
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11:34<feiqu>What is the reason for Debian not updating to the latest Firefox ESR release? Sooner or later, the support for the old version will be discontinued anyway?
11:35<Habbie>if i have to guess, it might be because it's only two weeks old, and there's no big rush
11:35<petn-randall>feiqu: That will likely happen at some point, latest when the ESR version in Debian is not supported by upstream.
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11:36<petn-randall>feiqu: With buster this took quite some time, mostly because the build system they used wasn't packaged in buster yet.
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11:40<feiqu>I see, thank you.
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12:19<No1x3r0>What is the command to hide ?
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12:20<petn-randall>No1x3r0: Hide the screen?
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12:21<nmschulte>looks like he wants to quiet some post-KMS-modeswitch/clear kernel messages: Firmware bug, ACPI Error
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12:22<nmschulte>on my system those go away when the login/console appears :shrug:
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12:25<No1x3r0>nmschulte: in other words you don't know the command to hide those messages.
12:25<petn-randall>No1x3r0: They should disappear when you finished booting.
12:26<No1x3r0> /ignore petn-randall
12:26<petn-randall>No1x3r0: Whatever floats your boat.
12:28<No1x3r0>petn-randall they reapear on next boot
12:28<bremner>are you maybe looking for plymouth?
12:28<tepozoa>they are kernel boot messages and will appear every time you boot unless the actual situation is repaired
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12:31<No1x3r0>tepozoa, strange people tell me it's not a situation and that they can be ignored; so I just wanted to hide them so I don't have to look at them; otherwise do you know how to "repair" the "actual situation" ?
12:32<tepozoa>sorry, after you shit on 2 members of this community in rapid succession, not helpng you
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12:34<petn-randall>No1x3r0: They're purely cosmetic, and might be fixed by a BIOS update. You can hide them by putting up a nice plymouth splash screen. Since those are kernel messages early during boot, the only way to hide them would be to patch the kernel.
12:34<No1x3r0>petn-randall, they are for macOS now what about Linux ?
12:35<No1x3r0>petn-randall I was given a command to pass to the kernel to hide them from somewhere else but don't remember the command
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12:37<No1x3r0>or maybe it was close to install noapic irqpoll acpi=force
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12:38<petn-randall>No1x3r0: None of those hide the error, and have worse side effects like poor power management.
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12:40<No1x3r0>petn-randall so then what's the command ?
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12:41<petn-randall>No1x3r0: I gave you the options you have to hide those messages. BIOS update, plymouth, or finding the code evoking those messages and patching the kernel yourself.
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12:41<jmcnaught>How long are the messages on the screen for?
12:42<petn-randall>and d) closing your eyes for the 3 seconds they appear on the screen.
12:42<No1x3r0>petn-randall no there was someone in another room that gave me a command to hid the messages
12:42<No1x3r0>mayb no log or something
12:42<petn-randall>No1x3r0: Go and ask them then?
12:42<No1x3r0>I can't I was banned there
12:43<petn-randall>Ah, then I guess you're out of options.
12:43<No1x3r0>petn-randall no, I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable on the matter can assist
12:45<nmschulte>No1x3r0: in the past, I like you tried to silence these "errors" -- it always turned into more effort than it was worth, and strangely no-one else ever seemed to care about the messages or the situation. so I've stopped trying. let me know what you uncover!
12:45<No1x3r0>nmschulte, okay I'll try
12:46<jkc>No1x3r0: 1. You don't have an actual solution to fix. 2. petn-randall is actually an incredibly knowledgable person in this channel. 3. Acting like a completely condescending ass when you're asking for other people's knowledge and expertise seems counterproductive. Fix yourself, please.
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12:46<No1x3r0>jkc how was any of that helpful?
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12:47<jkc>s/solution/problem/, but I hope that was obvious in context.
12:47<nmschulte>I mean, I agree w/ jkc's pt.s too -- seems a little rude up above, but w/e it's up above now. good luck.
12:48<jkc>Really, your behavior would seem to indicate why "12:42 <No1x3r0> I can't I was banned there" is true.
12:48<No1x3r0>jkc, don't care
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12:49<No1x3r0>I wish webchat had an ignore feature
12:49<nmschulte>anyone got that ignore feature around here?
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12:50<LtL>No1x3r0: /ignore add $NICK
12:51<No1x3r0>LtL, thank you
12:51<jkc>No1x3r0: If your standard response to someone telling you the truth is to ignore them, that really just further emphasizes why you're having the problems you are.
12:51<LtL>No1x3r0: Actually thats for weechat, sorry
12:51<No1x3r0>condesending fascism doesn't win over any developers
12:52*LtL never uses a 'web'chat client.
12:52<jkc>No1x3r0: You're welcome to not care, but it would seem that solving your interpersonal deficiencies would lead to more productive outcomes. Also, I think you may want to consult a dictionary. Fascism doesn't mean anything remotely close to what you apparently think it does.
12:53<No1x3r0> /ignore add jkc #doesn't worrk
12:53<sney>wow, this is escalating, I'm almost sad I put that guy on ignore yesterday. /s
12:53<No1x3r0>nmschutle funny
12:54<jkc>sney: I think you'd be disappointed, honestly.
12:54<mooff>No1x3r0: it was helpful because people think you were being disrespectful, and it's important to hear that
12:54<No1x3r0>the demise of Linux fascim driving away interested parties
12:54<nmschulte>No1x3r0: go find the answer and prove us all some kind of wrong please.
12:54<mooff>i am more forgiving.. but i also think you should think about it and give a +1 to jkc's message
12:54<No1x3r0>nmschulte again I'll wait for someone more knowlegeable on the matter
12:55<mooff>No1x3r0: i spent an hour or so looking into your problem last night. would you like to hear the conclusion?
12:55<No1x3r0>mooff, setting up ?
12:55<mooff>No1x3r0: it is quite a niche issue so it's more about who cares enough to look into it. being respectful will help. chill.
12:56<No1x3r0>mooff I'm respectful to those who are respectful to me
12:56<jkc>Provably false.
12:56<No1x3r0>jkc baring false witness ?
12:56<jkc>At least, to anyone who possesses a "Page Up" key.
12:56<No1x3r0>jkc and that's not the whole story is it?
12:57<jkc>To anyone who possesses a page up key, the "whole story" is publicly visible.
12:57<mooff>you are very sensitive and impatient, No1x3r0, then assume bad faith.
12:57<mooff>in the view of many here that combination is disrespectful.
12:57<No1x3r0>no it's not it stretches on to other chat servers
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12:58<No1x3r0>mooff, thanks for calling out my disabilities
12:58<mooff>i am also sensitive and impatient and can show that it's not always a death sentence
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12:59<jkc>No1x3r0: If "completely unable to treat other people with courtesy and decency" is a disability, then you deserve to be called out.
12:59<No1x3r0>mooff it is with suicide
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12:59<jkc>And now we've entered the "maximum troll" phase of this.
12:59<dpkg>Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel.
13:00<jkc>dpkg: ops No1x3r0 needs a bit of an adjustment, please.
13:00<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: jkc complains about a problem (see above)
13:00<mooff>i'm immune to the derailment, No1x3r0. this is a you problem 👍️
13:00<No1x3r0>wouldn't be the first ban from facism
13:00<No1x3r0>mooff then why respond
13:00<mooff>No1x3r0: to show good faith.. Apple changed the EFI firmware when you upgraded to Catalina. the Linux kernel needs to incorporate support for the ACPI changes they made. that may take a year to get into distros. unlucky.
13:01<petn-randall>No1x3r0, mooff, please stay on topic and refrain from namecalling. We're all just volunteers here trying to help each other.
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13:01<No1x3r0>mooff, I've instealled Apples EFI firmware, it only applies to macOS, and is removed on removal of the primary partiion
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13:04<mooff>i lost the option to boot my Ubuntu install after upgrading to Catalina, heh. i hope it isn't now also ACPI incompatible.
13:05<sney>likely, unless ubuntu is using some out of tree patch to fix it
13:05<sney>but as you said, these things usually make it back into linux
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13:18<shinobi>I'm thinking of moving back to Debian. Ubuntu has been a total train wreck in the last year or so. That being said, if I add the testing repos, will that add kernel updates as well or is that just userland?
13:18<petn-randall>shinobi: I'd install bullseye (stable) for now. testing will be quite a bumpy ride for the next few months, as we just released.
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13:19<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: so, when I enter the password from the encrypted partition, the brightness drops to a comfortable level, but then Xorg loads and rises to 100% >
13:19<shinobi>peten-randall: What kernel are you guys on?
13:19<petn-randall>shinobi: bullseye ships 5.10, but you'll have newer kernels soon in stable-backports.
13:20<qohfyrvsknxm>>>> guys, can you help me with brightness control on nvidia?
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13:21<mooff>bullseye is great, shinobi. easy to get onto bookworm/sid from there if you later want to. has kernel 5.10.46-4
13:21<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: interesting that Xorg causes it
13:22<petn-randall>qohfyrvsknxm: Have you tried changing it when running xorg (or rather wayland)? I can assume that it saves the brightness level across reboots.
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13:23<mooff>the bug seems to be for context
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13:26<shinobi>peten-randall: Also, is there anything similar to non-free, or do I have to round up proprietary drivers and firmware myself? For example I have an Nvidia GPU (older 2GB) and an Intel Wifi 6 AX200 wnic. I want to play DVD, MP3, Quicktime, and Windows Media formats, etc.
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13:27<sney>shinobi: bullseye supports both of those devices, and video codecs have not been an issue for many years now
13:27<sney>(ax200 was added in kernel 5.2 or 5.3)
13:28<sney>you can test support with a live iso that has the firmware bundled,
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13:29<mooff>the nouveau driver comes out of the box for your Nvidia card. nvidia-driver from Debian non-free will get you the proprietary driver
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13:31<sney>finally, you do not "add the testing repos"; testing is a separate branch. coming from ubuntu, that would be like using xenial and "adding" bionic
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13:32<sney>you use stable (currently bullseye) or you use testing (bookworm), they are fully separate versions of debian. if you were doing this differently in the past, well, now you know.
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13:34<cw___>hi. i am trying to get the win32-loader to run on my windows laptop to install debian (because i cant boot from external media. i dont have the password for the BIOS :-\) i am getting the error "The downloaded Release file cannot be trusted! Aborting". i just want to wipe the windows install and have debian on this lapotp.
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13:59<nmschulte>shinobi: I don't know that it was answered above: the testing (and unstable) repos cover the whole package gamut; there _are_ newer kernels, firmware, etc. in those repos.
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14:00<nmschulte>oh yeah, what sney said.
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14:01<shinobi>So if I want stable (for security fixes) and want more recent packages, I would also add stable-backports?
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14:07<mooff>yes. but bullseye is still v fresh, so you should be happy for at least some months
14:07<mooff>then.. jump onto sid and join #debian-next to help with complaining^Wtesting
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14:12<mooff>maybe i should stop asking people to remove the nouveau driver 😛
14:14<somiaj>shinobi: in case it hasn't been mentioned, kernels are very often backported and made avaiable for stable via backports
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14:15<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: do you have nvidia-drm.modeset=1 on your kernel command line?
14:16<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: how can I check this?
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14:16<somiaj>shinobi: note only some packages are backported, also backport doesn't have traditional secrity support. You may want to consider that you don't always need the newest softeware and just get use to stable. The nice thing about debian is it won't change during a release, so it will work as expected.
14:16<argentwolf>FWIW, since its release 17 days ago, I imediately moved from LMDE4 to Debian 11 w/xfce as my daily driver. This release couldn't be more boring (i.e., installation and use). It actually feels very...well, more stable, smoother, and snapier than 10, it's hard to explain, its really comfortable. I love it! WOW! WINNING!
14:16<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: look in /etc/default/grub and see if you added it to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
14:17<somiaj>mooff: the nvidia kernel packages should be blacklisting nouveau (:
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14:18<mooff>somiaj: there was a user a couple of days ago whose system was using nouveau despite having nvidia-legacy-something installed.. removing nouveau sorted their issue, so of course i suggested it to qohfyrvsknxm who was met with a tty login 🤓
14:18<tjkindle>mooff: complaining^wtesting 😁
14:19<shinobi>Sounds good. My needs are usually basic, I ended up switching to Ubuntu last year because I got all new snazzy hardware. My old machine was 12 years old.
14:19<shinobi>mooff: haha... I'm a typical user. I want everything and want to do nothing. It should all work. :)
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14:20<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: there's no such line, but I added as you said and updated grub, then rebooted - did not help :(
14:20<somiaj>mooff: you mean removing the xserver-xorg-video-nouveau package?
14:20<somiaj>mooff: I could see that, it could be the legacy packages arne't as nicely auto detected by xorg, and one would actually need to write an xorg.conf snippit to tell xorg to use it.
14:21<tjkindle>somiaj: should never be necessary to remove the server
14:21<tjkindle>Er, module
14:21<somiaj>tjkindle: correct, I'm wondering what moof means by 'remove nouveau', since you really can't remove it from the kernel.
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14:21<somiaj>but removing the xorg package will keep xorg from trying to use it
14:21<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: i think that without it, the MatchDriver "nvidia-drm" should read MatchDriver "nvidia". as long as the two are aligned i think you should be in a better state
14:22<mooff>i did mean xserver-xorg-video-nouveau, yeah
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14:23<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: remember one of the threads somewhere mentioned adding some nvidia lines to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules.. did you try that?
14:23<mooff>and after adding the lines, did you `sudo update-initramfs -u` ?
14:23*tjkindle notes ircing on a kindle is suboptimal, digs around for a keyboard at least
14:26<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: of course, I there added - nvidia, nvidia-drm, nvidia-modeset and updated initramfs
14:27<mooff>cool - i think we know now you're one of the people that are SOL for the 455 - 470 drivers atm
14:28<mooff>so i'd offer the question to the room again, of how best you can downgrade to 450 on bullseye and pin it there
14:28<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: btw, I recently started learning English, so, excuse me for my grammatical mistakes xD
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14:30<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: yeah, well, if we can't fix it, then I'm thinking of deleting Debian 😞
14:33<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: what is the problem (I missed it?)
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14:34<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: or,,nv,elem#new
14:34<mooff>somehow, those newer versions do work on Arch
14:35<somiaj>be nice to hvae a debian bug, that seems to have some ubutntu specific things (not saying it isn't also present in debian, just the works in 20.04 but not 18.04.5), is the issue the brightness control?
14:35<mooff>there is , but it has much less info
14:35<judd>Bug in nvidia-driver (open): «nvidia-driver: I can’t change brightness in my laptop, I changed xorg.conf and grub. Legion y540, GTX 1660 Ti.»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-04-30; last modified: 2021-04-30.
14:36<mooff>i'll email a link to the Ubuntu bug to that actually
14:36<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: And it works normally on older versions of the nvidia drivers?
14:36<qohfyrvsknxm>btw, for 3 three days of use, I really liked Debian, even more than a year of using Arch 😚
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14:37<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: do things work fine in debian 10?
14:37<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: I didn't test it on Debian, but everything worked perfectly on Arch (2020 plus 2021)
14:38<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: didn't test it on debian? You mean debain 10, as it isn't working in debian 11?
14:38<somiaj>,v nvidia-kernel-dkms
14:38<judd>Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.197.02-1; buster-backports/non-free: 460.73.01-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 460.91.03-1; bookworm/non-free: 470.57.02-2; sid/non-free: 470.57.02-2
14:39<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: going by the bug report, it seems to work okay in prevsious versions of the libary (450, maybe eariler), but is broken in the newer versions, 460 specifcally
14:39<somiaj>arg i mena non-free driver
14:39<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: I didn't use Debian 10, since the kernel didn't support my videocard there when I bought my laptop, so I can't say anything.
14:40<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: I used Manjaro and then Arch
14:40<somiaj>well debian 11 is frozen, maybe this might be fixed in a point release, or maybe once some drivers hit backports
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14:40<cw___>is there a channel i can get some help on the win32-loader.exe to install debian? :P
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14:42<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: if your goal is to get this to work in debian, you can try,, and see if you can compile that against the 5.10 kernel
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14:42<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: So can I install drivers from the Debian 10 repository in Debian 11?
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14:42<somiaj>I choose the 450 version since that is the last version in the bug report that worked
14:43<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: The short answer is no, the longer answer is it depends. But I doubt the older version will compile against the 5.10 kernel, snapshot would be the best bet
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14:43<somiaj>it could still be that that version won't compile agains the 5.10 kernel, the non-free drivers have this problem a lot
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14:45<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: did you try the workaround of adding the modules to the initramfs?
14:46<mooff>somlaj: they did, (try adding the modules to initramfs)
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14:46<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: of course, I there added - nvidia, nvidia-drm, nvidia-modeset and updated initramfs
14:47<Sqrt{not}>cw___, this channel is probably the best place. Tell us a little more detail.
14:47<mooff>i'm checking out Arch's package to see if they had to fix it, and maybe why not
14:47<cw___>basically i need to install debian on this laptop BUT i dont have access to bios (password) so i cant boot from external media. )=
14:48<cw___>its a nice laptop otherwise its sitting here collecting dust with windows 10.
14:48<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: okay, I'm just catching up to speed. Well maybe the older 450 driver will work, if not you may just have to either live without the brightness control or find another solution (eventaully the nvidia drivers make it into backports, so that could be a fix in the future)
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14:51<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: should I add a snapshot 2020-12-18 03:36:40 (last date from 450) to my sources.list so that I can download this version?
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14:52<Sqrt{not}>cw___, which installer image did you download, and what media is it on now?
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14:54<cw___>Sqrt{not}: i just downloaded from and its on the current windows 10's download folder.
14:54<Sqrt{not}>cw___, are you following the install manual: ?
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14:56<Sqrt{not}>cw___, you need more than only that win32-loader binary. see section 5.1.3 of the install guide, if you are not already following it
14:56<cw___>Sqrt{not}: ah. maybe i am missing the step before the win32-loader.exe LOL. let me check it out...
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15:01<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: from more reading.. i think the issue also exists in Arch with the 455 and later driver
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15:02<mooff>and.. it looks like it might actually be due to a regression in the kernel i915 driver
15:02<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: you ca do that or manually download the .deb's, your choice
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15:05<mooff>apparently the problem doesn't happen with kernel 5.10.16 🤓
15:05<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: maybe, the last time I used Arch was on July 1, 2021 with the kernel 5.12.13
15:06<mooff>err... ahh...
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15:06<somiaj>an older kernel is probably a bit easier to check from snapshot, but it will have security issues
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15:15<cw___>Sqrt{not}: no luck. after running the setup.exe it just gives me "error: failed to copy d:\ to c:\win32-loader\linux"
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15:18<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: from what i can see, your processor does include Intel UHD 630 graphics, which is implemented with the intel-drm i915 driver built into the kernel
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15:18<mooff>and this could ultimately be the culprit:
15:19<Sqrt{not}>cw___, what kind of media is d:\ and how did you write the downloaded installer onto it?
15:20<cw___>d:\ is a cdrom drive.
15:20<cw___>i also tried mounting the .iso image and running that setup.exe but same result
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15:22<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: I have a i5 9300HF processor, with an index of F
15:22<mooff>"press F to pay respects for no internal graphics"?
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15:23<cw___>whoa. looks like an older image i had is working....
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15:23<cw___>crossing my fingers...
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15:23<qohfyrvsknxm>mooff: F <3
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15:24<mooff>F :(
15:24<cw___>if it blows up the boot loader or windows. oh well. having windows on this machine is useless either way.
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15:26<towo`>qohfyrvsknxm: nvidia-driver is a metapackage
15:26<Gerowen>Could somebody help me figure out which ufw command I need to use to add this rule? I added it ages back on a different machine, but can't quite remember the syntax for adding it on a different one.
15:26<towo`>there is nothing in
15:26<Gerowen>Anywhere on eth0 ALLOW FWD on tun0
15:26<mooff>qohfyrvsknxm: apt remove nvidia-driver && apt autoremove
15:26<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: you have to install all the related packages, not just one, so download all the packaes listed in that list, and include then in your line, dpkg -i pkg1 pkg2 pkg3 ...
15:27<mooff>i was gonna suggest getting the official installer for 450 from heh
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15:27<towo`>and break debian, nice
15:27<mooff>it breaks Debian?
15:28<sney>!why nvidia installer sucks
15:28<dpkg>nvidia-installer works fine for you today, granted. Let's say tomorrow Xorg is updated -- the nvidia driver will break. If you try to uninstall nvidia (nvidia-installer --uninstall), then you break Xorg badly. nvidia-installer overwrites files at random, and has NO CONCEPT of package management. We recommend against using it based on extensive experience. USE THE DEBIAN PACKAGES. Ask me about <nvidia>.
15:28<towo`>all software, which is installed by bypassing the package-management breaks debian
15:28<mooff>okay, cool
15:29*mooff 👀 ~/Programs
15:29<bremner>well. installing from source into /usr/local is ok
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15:29<sney>yes, in 2021 plenty of stuff respects the FHS and doesn't step on distro packaging.
15:29<sney>nvidia has still not joined us in the modern era.
15:32*mooff closes a couple dozen tabs
15:32*mooff Ctrl+Shift+t couple of times to get back 'watch later' sci fi tabs
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15:33<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: only these packages?
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15:38<somiaj>yea should only need those ones
15:38<somiaj>qohfyrvsknxm: also it appears you are taking screenshots? CAn you use a pastebin with text instead?
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15:39<qohfyrvsknxm>somiaj: ok :)
15:41<dpkg>you can paste to from terminal with redirections: try 'nc 9999 < /path/to/file', or 'command | nc 9999'
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15:54<Gerowen>For those who may have saw my previous post I figured out the command to allow the forwarding of OpenVPN traffic through UFW without allowing literally all packets to get forwarded on all interfaces. Obviously swap out your VPN IP/subnet and interface names for your own.
15:54<Gerowen>ufw route allow in on tun0 from out on eth0 to any comment "OpenVPN Forwarding"
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16:09<minikdo>Hi, how to guess a process that is listening without either netstat -p option or lsof?
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16:10<sarnold>minikdo: what problem are you trying to solve?
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16:12<minikdo>sarnold: I need to know what process uses port x
16:12<minikdo>on a router that has not netstat -p
16:13<sarnold>minikdo: does it have 'ss'? netstat was replaced with ss years ago
16:13<minikdo>no ss either
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16:15<sarnold>minikdo: /proc/net/tcp has one line per connected tcp socket .. but nothing for listening sockets :(
16:15<sarnold>oh! I misread
16:15<sarnold>the listening sockets look like they've got remote addr 00000000:0000
16:17<minikdo>is there a port number in /proc/net/tcp ?
16:17<sarnold>yeah, it's in hex
16:18<minikdo>* sorry
16:18<minikdo>Ok I see
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16:19<sarnold>minikdo: once you've done that, find the inode number, and use sudo find /proc/ -lname '*inodenumber*' -ls to find the process
16:19<minikdo>sarnold: thanks a lot!
16:20<sarnold>minikdo: sure :) bummer the router doesn't just have ss or netstat around, it's only a few kilobytes but saves a ton of time..
16:20<minikdo>sarnold: kernel 2.6 ... ;-)
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16:23<minikdo>sarnold: find: unrecognized: -lname ;-)
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16:25<sarnold>minikdo: omg :/ okay, try sudo find /proc -ls | grep inodenumber
16:25<tepozoa>try using -H instead
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16:25<tepozoa>lname is basically a safe -H and is only in newer versions of find
16:26<sarnold>hmm my version of find reports find: unknown predicate `-H'
16:26<sarnold>is my find too new? heh
16:26<tepozoa>find is super sensitive to where you put certain flags, where did you put it?
16:27<tepozoa>find -H /proc -name '*inodenumber*' -ls (e.g.)
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16:28<mooff>funny that we carry around flags from the 80s and 90s 'just in case', but -H may have been dropped before its grandchildren could go to college :-)
16:28<tepozoa>oh I'm not defending find at all
16:28<tepozoa>it's a great tool, but man it's a real head scratcher to use sometimes
16:29<FelixActually>Why not fix it then? :D
16:29<tepozoa>I do - I pipe everything to xargs :)
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16:29<FelixActually>That's not fixing :(
16:30<jkc>You pipe find to xargs?
16:30<tepozoa>sure why not? usually grep because I love grep but you know, depends on the exact task
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16:31<sarnold>tepozoa: I tried using -H as an argument directly to find, and then tried -name '*inodenumber*' but that didn't give me any hits, so I thought perhaps -H was a predicate for linkname once upon a time..
16:31<minikdo>which one is inodenumber here: 22:23:19 < minikdo> sarnold: find: unrecognized: -lname ;-)
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16:31<minikdo>22:25:15 < sarnold> minikdo: omg :/ okay, try sudo find /proc -ls | grep inodenumber
16:32<jkc>tepozoa: Because that misses the entire point of find.
16:32<minikdo>* sorry I mean: 161: 0AD124B7:00A1 00000000:0000 07 00000000:00000000 00:00000000 00000000 0 0 21065 2 8a5352c0 0
16:32<tepozoa>I *think* it shares -H with some other tools like `ls`? I have vague memories of several tools agreeing to use -H to mean "no, the actual symlink itself"
16:32<jkc>That's almost as bad as cat | echo
16:33<tepozoa>cool, you do you
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16:35<sarnold>minikdo: here's an example on my system:
16:35<mooff>with the time it's taken me to get -exec to work with multiple predicates, God help if that command needs its own quotes, i'm sympathetic to other... (less?) (more?) creative approaches
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16:36<mooff>it's not a tool that makes it hard to do the wrong thing
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16:36<mooff>you might even say it's often hard to do the right thing
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16:37<FelixActually>The manpage for find says that -exec "has unavoidable security problems" and "you should use the -execdir option instead"
16:37<FelixActually>So why does it even exist?
16:37<minikdo>sarnold: thanks, but I have to be logged in to see this. Could you paste in on
16:37<sarnold>minikdo: *arg* sorry :(
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16:39<minikdo>sarnold: thanks!!!
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16:40<olvvoil>Would anyone be able to field a question about package validation in apt when GPG has yet to be installed?
16:40<mooff>FelixActually: likely because it's used in 100,000's of scripts
16:40<sarnold>olvvoil: maaaaaaybe
16:40<FelixActually>Couldn't they make exec an alias of execdir?
16:41<sarnold>no, that would break a *TON* of things
16:41<FelixActually>Scenarios like this are strangely common
16:42<olvvoil>sarnold Ever since the dependency on GPG was removed, what exactly does apt do to validate the package's fingerprint?
16:43<sarnold>olvvoil: I believe it's using gpgv these days
16:43<sarnold>olvvoil: my ubuntu focal system has: Depends: adduser, gpgv | gpgv2 | gpgv1, ...
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16:44<tepozoa>Debian 11 shows gunpg as a Depends as well
16:45<the4oo4>after upgrading to bullseye, I noticed that for some reason I can only use an x11 session with gdm instead of wayland like I could before
16:45<the4oo4>anyone else have that? only thing I could see in the docs were related to nouveau drivers, which might be loaded somewhere based on defaults but are not needed since I'm using i915
16:46<olvvoil>sarnold: Does it just use the default keys and validate with gpgv, then? I just thought it was weird that on my minimal install, I couldn't run 'apt-key list' by default.
16:46<mooff>FelixActually: it's probably comparable to.. "symlinks open a whole class of security problems.. can't we just make ln an alias of cp?"
16:46<FelixActually>exec and execdir seem to do the same thing though
16:47<mooff>with different working directories
16:47<FelixActually>Except the command to execute is executed in the directory where a file is being operated on rather than in the directory the command was run in
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16:47<mooff>a substantial difference!
16:47<sarnold>olvvoil: losing apt-key list is a bit of a bummer :( yeah
16:48<FelixActually>Is it substantial?
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16:48<olvvoil>tepozoa: I only see a Suggested for gnupg, only gpgv is Depends. I think it's been that way since Debian 9.
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16:49<mooff>if it weren't, they would have just patched -exec
16:50<olvvoil>sarnold: Is there any fundamental reason why apt-key needs gnupg to list keys? I mean, the keys are there, and gpgv is using them for validation, right?
16:50<sarnold>FelixActually: compare these two outputs:
16:51<sarnold>olvvoil: gpgv just plain doesn't have any code to do that, I guess
16:51<sarnold>(based on the manpage, anyway)
16:51<tepozoa>olvvoil: aaaah I see now, I missed that it was an OR with gpg1/gpgv2 and missed that gnupg2 was on the next line. my bad
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16:52<FelixActually>sarnold: It fails immediately on first error with exec?
16:52<olvvoil>sarnold: Wow, when they said gpgv was "stripped-down", they weren't joking.
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16:53<sarnold>FelixActually: I honestly intended only to show the fact that the paths in the output are different, meaning -execdir sha256sum {} things are useless as inputs to sha256sum -C etc
16:53<FelixActually>Oh, okay
16:53<sarnold>FelixActually: I thought the error on output strange enough to include it, too, because of course changes in error handling, intentional or otherwise, *also* breaks things :)
16:53<FelixActually>What are the security problems with -exec though anyway?
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16:55<mooff>well you brought them up!!
16:55*mooff teased
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16:55<sarnold>FelixActually: another process might be rewriting the directory tree while the processing is going on .. eg find will try to execute md5sum a/b/c/d/e/f/g/ -- and another process may put a symbolic link in place any of these directories or the file, and the md5sum process would get /root/ as input or something similar..
16:56<FelixActually>And... it'd execute it?
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16:58<sarnold>well, it really depends upon what the command is
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16:58<sarnold>in general it's never safe to execute a command in a directory owned by an untrusted account
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16:59<FelixActually>Computers are so confusing
16:59<sarnold>I don't think replacing -exec with -execdir is necessarily a huge improvement; the filename can still be mucked with, if the directory is owned by another account
16:59<FelixActually>We should build computers which can figure out these dang computers
16:59<mooff>how do we figure out the computer computers?
16:59<mooff>do we need computer computer computers?
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17:00<sarnold>we'll just hire an AI to explain it :)
17:00<FelixActually>As long as you leave the computer computers somewhere nobody can touch them, you don't have to worry about that
17:01<mooff>as long as they don't have `find`
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17:02<FelixActually>Also, a curious thing: the compose sequence doesn't seem to work on Debian Unstable
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17:02<FelixActually>Or it does, but the compose symbol doesn't appear
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17:02<sney>sid is predictably a mess right now
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17:06<urk>Are installer by default always in Ext 4 format?
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17:07<urk>I lost my windows manager, and only until now have I had a chance to work on it. I need to do a backup of my documents folder so that I got something besides Rsync to count on.
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17:09<urk>I need to shut down my hexchat program so that I can see other screens. Has to be done because I no longer have a windows manager.
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17:09<mooff>urk: what was your window manager?
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17:10<mooff>do you know about Ctrl-Alt-1 through Ctrl-Alt-12 to switch to different sessions?
17:10<sarnold>mooff: btw urk is gone
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17:11<sarnold>probably he'll be back with a different nickname in ten minutes
17:11<mooff>thanks sarnold, i have joins and parts hidden
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17:11<mooff>not sure how long i could sail without a window manager
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17:13<sarnold>hehe it's one of those things that doesn't sound too bad until you actually try it. it'd be worth starting another one, nearly anything, just to get some level of control back
17:15<mooff>maybe they'll find it down the back of the sofa :P
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17:22<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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17:57<mooff>i guess while it's quiet...
17:58<mooff>a couple of months ago i got some cheap RAM which was delivered in foam to statically charged i could feel it before i touched it
17:58<mooff>so naturally i grounded it for a few secs, then happily slotted it in
17:58<mooff>memtest86 and memtest86+ HANG after some seconds..
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17:59<mooff>i've basically put up with instability since
18:00<mooff>are there any ways i can test for badram regions while my normal system is running?
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18:01<mooff>* foam to -> foam so
18:02<sarnold>mooff: once upon a time the advice was to compile something big and see if you get signal 11s
18:03<sarnold>mooff: memtest86 kinds of things are more deterministic, though, since the kernel has claimed specific parts of physical memory for itself and won't let that go
18:03<mooff>oh yeah, i get a good gamut of occasional segv's, misbehavior etc
18:03<FelixActually>So the kernel is like a dog with a bone when it comes to RAM?
18:04<mooff>give.. it.. back! >:D *tugs*
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18:05<FelixActually>(Growling noises emanate from mooff's computer)
18:05<mooff>i don't mind only scanning userspace addressable memory
18:05<mooff>it's usually only userspace that borks
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18:05<mooff>(the kernel space just barks :D)
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18:06<FelixActually>Computing is going to the dogs!
18:07<FelixActually>Have we reached the bad joke quota for today yet? :D
18:07<mooff>don't tell that to Linus, you'll end up in the doghouse
18:07<mooff>something something Linux Kennel Mailing List :P
18:08<mooff>might be close to it now
18:08<FelixActually>I think that deserves applause
18:08*sarnold claps
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18:10<FelixActually>With 995 users here I can only imagine sarnold just standing up in a packed theatre and applauding for all he's worth while everyone else just remains seated and stares blankly :D
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18:11<FelixActually>The comically large hook thing'll be dragging you off the stage any second now... :D
18:11<crawler>mooff if you get any electronic devices/components that are statically charged, you should not discharge the charge, you should ionize it. Discharging the charge to the ground is actually making the probable damage inevitable
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18:12<mooff>FelixActually: yeah, yoinked.
18:12<mooff>meanwhile, sarnold:
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18:13<mooff>that's good to know crawler. i don't know much about it, i just remembered advice to "touch a radiator before working inside your computer"
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18:13<crawler>that's a good advice tho
18:14<FelixActually>No no, that advice is for the computer gremlins that live inside your computer!
18:14<mooff>just not for actual RAM sticks
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18:15<mooff>the stability got better over a couple of weeks.. the first week or so i had at least one BSOD a day
18:15<sarnold>crawler: so how exactly do you equalize the charge between the items without shorting them? the only thing I can think of bleed off excess eleectrons is to solder on something pointy and I can't imagine that's what's intended :)
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18:17<crawler>sarnold there are tools to equalize/deionize those charges gracefully
18:17<mooff>now, (and returning to Linux helps), i just get occasional app segv's
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18:18<user1329>How do I start another X server on another tty?
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18:20<sarnold>user1329: my guess, try startx -- :1 and see if that does the trick
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18:22<mooff>i think just 'startx' might do it now
18:22<sarnold>oh that'd be nice
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18:33<mooff>ooh, kodi installs itself as an X session
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19:09<at0m>mooff: are you on OpenElec?
19:10<at0m>hmm. i guess that was an RPi distro
19:12<sney>barely a distro, "just enough OS" to boot a kernel, mount filesystems, and play media
19:12<mooff>at0m, naw, i was just curious if it was in Debian yesterday and.. it is!
19:13<mooff>nice thing to have.. good media center
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19:14<somiaj>almost as bad as chromeos, just enough to run chromium, and then everything is writen in javascript
19:14<at0m>sney: indeed. read-only root partition and all, back in the day of RPi 1, in order to optimize performance and reduce breakage, to eventually get Kodi with some custom addons
19:15<at0m>somiaj: well, in the early pi days it was hard to run such media streams on it
19:15<sney>yep, it worked pretty well as I recall. but I'm not using it anymore
19:15<at0m>the "kodi starts X session" reminded me of it
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19:26<FelixActually>How do I verify the ECDSA key fingerprint for an SSH connection? I keep forgetting this
19:27<mooff>it runs as a regular GL app too, i just noticed there was a new kodi.desktop in /usr/share/xsessions
19:27<mooff>FelixActually: it'll be verified automatically on every connection, warning dramatically if it has changed
19:27<mooff>the first time you connect to a host, it'll display the fingerprint and ask if you trust it
19:27<FelixActually>How do I view the fingerprint on the server machine?
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19:30<FelixActually>Oh, right, /etc/ssh
19:30<FelixActually>I was looking for ~/.ssh, which didn't exist
19:32<FelixActually>Although I don't know what I do next
19:32<FelixActually>Some ssh-keygen command?
19:32<crawler>.ssh directory would exist if you generated keys for your own or authorized keys to login to your system
19:32<sarnold>damn that's a horrible command
19:33<sarnold>you have to run ssh-keygen -l without any further arguments
19:33<mooff>echo /etc/ssh/ | ssh-keygen -lv
19:33<sarnold>then it prompts you for the name..
19:33<sarnold>what crap
19:33<FelixActually>I don't remember it being like that
19:33<sarnold>me neither
19:33<FelixActually>I'm sure I used to just type the filename
19:33<FelixActually>Did it get changed?
19:34<FelixActually>sarnold: Wait, there's an -f option which says "specify the filename of the key file"
19:35<sarnold>FelixActually: aha!
19:35<FelixActually>But actually -l says "of the specified file"
19:35<sarnold>FelixActually: so the manpage is incomplete, too :) that's at least easier to fix. heh.
19:36<mooff>sorry for giving an obvious answer first Felix, i didn't understand what you were asking!
19:37<FelixActually>mooff: It's no problem :)
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19:40<FelixActually>Also am I correct in thinking I can use rsync to transfer from a remote path?
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19:40<FelixActually>I presumed it was only one way
19:41<Emil>FelixActually: all four options are possible
19:41<FelixActually>Although the manual does have "pull" and "push"
19:41<Emil>local to local, remote to local, local to remote, remote to remote
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19:43<tzf>Hi!, termit instead of xterm... I have installed a fresh minimal Debian 11 netinstall... And I notice that xterm had been changed with termit..... Is it? Why?
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19:45<somiaj>tzf: define minimial, to me 'minimial' installs on xorg stuff, so xterm and termit are not minimial to me
19:45<sney>xterm and termit are both still in debian, so perhaps some metapackage changed a default; if you prefer to use xterm instead of termit anyway, then you can install it
19:45<somiaj>but you can install xterm just fine, I use it, as to what the default that is installed, totally depends on what you install.
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19:46<tjcarter>Yes, MUCH better than using a Kindle.
19:47<tjcarter>Also that mobile IRC client can't CertFP so … nickserv would've been obnoxious. 😛
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19:59<sarnold>tjcarter: you could bounce through a socat or stunnel or something similar if you wanted to use that mobile thing with nickserv for any real purpose
20:00<sarnold>FelixActually: yeah, rsync is really good at transferring to or from remote machines
20:00<tjcarter>sarnold: I'd have had to set that up before I knew I would want to set that up.
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20:00<sarnold>tjcarter: right
20:01<FelixActually>I'd like to set up a way to transfer between computers without any password requirements, but I guess that's insecure even on a local-network-only basis
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20:01<sarnold>FelixActually: ssh keys and rsync, or ssh keys and sftp, or nfs, or samba, etc. loads of options.
20:02<FelixActually>Now that I know that I can transfer from remote computers it makes it easier though
20:02<FelixActually>So I can probably do it this way
20:02<FelixActually>(With a password)
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20:03<tjcarter>if your ssh key has a passphrase (it should), you can use ssh-agent so you don't have to type it over and over again
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20:03<tjcarter>you can then use rsync to synchronize the data copy between two machines over ssh
20:03<tjcarter>dropbox on the cheap
20:04<FelixActually>I don't really understand that stuff
20:04<FelixActually>So I just use the machine passwords
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20:09<tzf>Yes somiaj, sney, I mean I have installed and netinstall Debian (without recommended packages in during the install too) so it come with the very minimal, then I install xorg and openbox
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20:09<sarnold>the majority of hacked linux systems is via ssh password brute force guessing; setting up ssh keys and then turning off ssh passwords is usually the very first hardening step people take
20:09<tzf>That way xterm used to come on debian10... Termit came with debian11
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20:12<sney>I don't see anything depending on termit, and xorg still depends on xterm | x-terminal-emulator
20:12<sney>tzf: on your system, what is the result of 'apt rdepends --installed termit'?
20:15<mooff>reminds me to try out
20:17<FelixActually>sarnold: Does it matter if I don't have a port for SSH open on my router?
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20:18<EmleyMoor>FelixActually: Are you ssh'ing only from within, or from outside?
20:18<FelixActually>From my local network
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20:18<EmleyMoor>Then it's irrelevant
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20:22<tzf>Thank you sney, tonight (gtm+5) I will check and let you know.
20:23<sney>well I might not be here, next time you have a question, please bring your debian system so we can help debug. :)
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20:24<tzf>Okay, so in that case I do it now, I still have a few minutes before going to job
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20:28<tzf>sney, nothing come except termit... and i notice xterm is not installed
20:28<sney>tzf: now, 'apt-mark showauto|grep termit'
20:29<tzf>The same, only "termit" comes
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20:30<sney>well, I don't know how you managed it, but a package with nothing depending on it was installed automatically on your system, and it satisfied the dependency for x-terminal-emulator so xterm did not need to be installed
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20:32<tzf>Before coming to ask here, I search about "xterm replaced by termit for Debian 11" but couldn't find... anyway thank you for that
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20:34<tzf>sney, again I have to repeat the same on another machine... So as soon as I install it, that pure minimal, I will check if it come already installed and let you know
20:34<tzf>And yeah it's not a big issue
20:35<sney>yes, look at your apt output when you install those packages. maybe install xorg and openbox separately, and see when it happens, with openbox, or with xorg
20:35<tzf>OK sney
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20:35<sney>it's not "replaced by" so that search would give you nothing useful. but there is a funny dependency thing happening here.
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20:58<mark_>Hi guys, I have a question: How can I downgrade my nvidia drivers? I've installed the newest using sudo apt... but I would like to try an older version in order to be able to use DaVinci Resolve
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20:58<mark_>not: I have downloaded de proper driver I want from the nvidia website as a linux .run file
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20:59<mark_>I would really appreciate any suggestions
21:00<sarnold>you should be able to apt install nvidia-whatever-460- nvidia-whatever-450 kinds of things
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21:00<sarnold>apt install foo- will uninstall foo
21:00<sarnold>it's very handy for swapping packages like that
21:01<mark_>ok thanks, I will try
21:01<jmcnaught>mark_: keep in mind that drivers installed by the .run file from Nvidia cannot be managed/removed by apt
21:02<mark_>oh, that is right, so I will try to do it the way @sarnold suggested
21:03<jmcnaught>mark_: is also very helpful, just make sure you are reading from the part of the page about the release of Debian you are using
21:06<mark_>thank you so much guys, I really like how easy it is to find help in these community
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21:14<mark_>another question guys, couple of days ago I updated and upgraded and after rebooting my session was currupted, I had to start a new session ... anyone knows why this happens?
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21:15<dpkg>Insufficient Data For Meaningful Answer
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21:17<sney>if it happens again, save logs.
21:18<mooff>you mean you had to logout and login again before it worked? does it still happen when you reboot?
21:18<mooff>beaten in terseness lol
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21:18<mark_>thanks I will save logs. It only happened to me once
21:19<mark_>and yes I had to logout and then login again and selected start new session
21:20<mooff>sounds like you're good to go
21:20<mooff>at a guess.. you might have Gnome extensions that needed to upgrade or something
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21:21<mark_>yeah maybe, but I am using xfce
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21:21<jmcnaught>If it happened in Debian 11 then you probably still have the logs, see "journalctl" (as root) if you know the time it happened then you can narrow with --since and --until (see "man journalctl")
21:21<mark_>I will, thanks a lot @jmcnaught
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21:22<mooff>i think it might only become persistent for new installs, jmcnaught
21:25<jmcnaught>mooff: "# Enable persistent journal, in auto-mode, by default on new installs and upgrades" (/var/lib/dpkg/info/systemd.postinst)
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21:26<jmcnaught>Also the release notes about persistent journal would probably mention if it was only for new installs.
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21:28<mooff> led me astray
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21:32<David-->?join #Centos
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21:32<mooff>?ban David--
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21:33<David-->why because I was joining aother channel and hit ? instead of /
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21:34<mooff>light hearted joke 😄
21:34<jmcnaught>mooff: I doublechecked and the systemd package's changelog entry for 244.1-2 say that persistent journal is enabled for upgrades and new installs.
21:35<mooff>cool. makes sense it would be mentioned on the release notes otherwise
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21:35<mooff>i'll update NewInBullseye then
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21:38<mooff>sorry Jeremy, i notice that you had opened for editing
21:38<mooff>as you were, then..
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21:39<jmcnaught>Oops I didn't see that you were trying to update it because I was doing the same thing.
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21:40<sussudio>speaking of Jeremy... Pearl Jam's "Ten" was released over 30 years ago. you are now feeling really old.
21:41<mooff>i submitted a change removing 'This page is a WIP' just a second before i saw the notice..
21:41<mooff>i've closed the tab, gonna make dinner, leave it in your hands lol
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21:44<mooff>looks like they merged okay
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 31 00:00:17 2021