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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-02

---Logopened Thu Sep 02 00:00:20 2021
00:00<mooff>then, look at the journal with journalctl and try to find what's going on
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00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:02<mooff>maybe someone else can help for a bit, time for me to sleep soon
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00:04-!-FH_thecat is "FH_thecat" on #kernelnewbies #virt #debian
00:04<urk>Same here
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00:05-!-AG46 is "..." on #debian
00:06<urk>No one is responding to #xfce or #debian-xfce
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00:06<mooff>give it time
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00:08-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
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00:15-!-fernie is "Jarkko Torvinen" on #debian
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00:15-!-pdq is "realname" on #debian #linux
00:16<pdq>I reset xfce4 to default, and it appears to be working ok, but tomorrow I will know if the other issues are resolved.
00:16<pdq>Nope, it still isn't fixed, and I can't move the window that Hexchat is in. I still think this is a display manager problems instead of a window manager issue.
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00:38<FH_thecat>can I tell "man" to use colors, even when piping output to some other programs ?
00:38<FH_thecat>"man man" is in color
00:38<FH_thecat>but "man man | cat" is not
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00:39-!-mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift
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00:55<themill>FH_thecat: from the man page (scnr!) see MAN_KEEP_FORMATTING
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01:40<FH_thecat>themill: thanks, but it does not seem to have any effect:
01:40<FH_thecat>export MAN_KEEP_FORMATTING=yes ; man man | cat
01:41<FH_thecat>still no colors
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01:41-!-endstille is "marc.brinkmann@gmail.com" on #debian
01:41<themill>wfm
01:42<sussudio>FH_thecat: if you look into a bright light, you see colours afterwards.
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01:45<FH_thecat>themill: any ide why id would not work for me ?
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03:33<binglis>good morning everyone. I was on about a week ago enquirying about corrupt records in a backend table microsoft access database after updating ssl on bullseye. I have now re-installed buster and everything is working fine. Have been doing a lot of reading to see why the background records should get corrupted and cant find anything. Have been chatting to other IT men and nobody has any idea
03:33<binglis>why this happened. Is there anyone that has any idea on why the background records are being corrupted
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03:43<binglis>jm_ you gave me some help last week. Is there anything else that you might suggest I should look at.
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03:50<jm_>binglis: no, I think I didn't even understand your issue correctly - I thought you use samba to share files for access database, but now I am not sure about it
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04:16<binglis>I do use samba to share the backend table database. This has been working fine with no errors for a number of years. When I updated to bullseye after the intial update it all worked fine. Then last wednesday there was an update on ssl and then it started to go wrong
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04:20<binglis>I have downgraded back to buster and its all working fine. This is being supported until 2024 so it gives me time to look into the issue. The only problem is I havent a clue where to start. I checked samba and it all seems to be ok that end. I doubled checked access and cant see where I have gone wrong that way. so it must be something to do with ssl is my only conclusion but why
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04:22<tjcarter>I was under the impression that the application should be irrelevant to samba
04:23<binglis>me too but why does the issue start when I updated the ssl on bullseye. Is there some locking happening with the access tables
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04:25<binglis>I have spent the last week looking into why its happend and there is no logical explaination. But the tables got corrupted and records were lost. Lucky i have backups and i moved the table to a local computer and it all worked ok until I reverted back to buster and now its all working correctly on the network
04:27<manxorist>hello! I am running rsync in daemon mode on Debian 10 and 11 as a backup file store (configuration: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d350dc18/ ) Since updating to Debian 11, rsyncd fails to copy device node files ( https://paste.debian.net/hidden/f55f245b/ ). I am completely lost as to what caused this change in behaviour. It works when using rsync over ssh, so I guess it may be related to either rsyncd itself or to the way rsyncd is started
04:27<manxorist>in Debian 11. Any suggestions what I could try?
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04:42<d9d38ef6-2c99-415f-aa32-779f9d>hi
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04:48<tjcarter>hello uuid
04:49<tjcarter>I used to know a setuid. Can we help you with Debian stretch/bullseye? 🙂
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04:50<tjcarter>That was perhaps a no.
04:50<tjcarter>manxorist: looking
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04:50<manxorist>tjcarter: nevermind, i just found the cause in den systemd unit file. PrivateDevices=off solves my problem.
04:50<manxorist>*in the
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04:53<tjcarter>manxorist: ah, I'm surprised you're trying to copy /dev anyway
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04:54<tjcarter>with udev, not only is there not any need, but trying to back up (and more importantly trying to restore) such things is more likely to cause problems
04:54<manxorist>tjcarter: well, i am making a backup of the complete root file system, which contains some device nodes in /dev/
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04:55<tjcarter>the root filesystem might, but they're pretty much legacy devices anyway. /dev/ is a mount point for udev
04:55<manxorist>but true, it's somewhat redundent to do so, considering udev
04:55<tjcarter>I'd suggest just adding an exclusion for /dev because of that
04:56<tjcarter>not as a way of fixing your problem necessarily, but because it's just logical to skip /dev, /sys, /run, /proc, etc.
04:56<tjcarter>(not /etc though, definitely back that up! 😃)
04:56<manxorist>well, if debian puts something in /dev/ on the rootfs, i'll backup it and restore it. worked for me in the past.
04:57<manxorist>i'm not backing up whatever udev puts in its tmpfs of course
04:57<tjcarter>I can pretty much guarantee there's nothing in /dev on my system, but I didn't install in the most traditional manner!
04:59<long>hello
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05:01<tjcarter>(I unlocked some LUKS containers to expose a LVM2 volume group that already existed, created a logical volume thereupon, mounted it on /target, mounted other filesystems like you would to use a chroot to repair a broken bootloader, ran debootstrap on it, edited some stuff in /etc, installed grub, flipped a V, and walked off into the sunset.
05:01<tjcarter>(that might be ever so slightly exaggerated, but not in terms of what I did.)
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05:31<necronian>I'm trying to understand package building, it seems like there are 8 ways to do anything. All the tutorials start talking about pristine tarballs or creating a debian git branch.
05:32<necronian>I'm looking for something closer to an ebuild or a pkgbuild where I can just point to the upstream source, explain how to build it run a command and end up with a .deb Has someone written a tool like that?
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05:33<tarzeau>necronian: i'm not aware of it, however i wrote a very simple to understand tutorial example: https://github.com/alexmyczko/autoexec.bat/blob/master/Documents/debian-packaging.md
05:33<FLD>sounds like checkinstall
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05:41<dennisvd>I upgraded to bullseye, now my AMD Radeon RX 580 is giving me grief. Anybody else has some clue?
05:41<necronian>tarzeau: Yea I basically can write my own script to git clone a repo build it and create a deb. Im just surprised no one else has done it.
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05:42<necronian>I'll have to look at checkinstall
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05:45<jm_>dennisvd: how about you provide some details first
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05:47<dennisvd>@jm ok; the basic setup gives me only 1024x768 resolution. It looks like the driver doesn't want to recognise the card. Previously I had used the amdgpu drivers from AMD.
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05:48<dennisvd>but these are not compatible with the 5.10 kernel.
05:48<dennisvd>I would expect the card to work with the open source driver in 5.10.
05:48<FLD>probably not without a non-free firmware package installed
05:49<jm_>dennisvd: did you check firmware is installed?
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05:52<jm_>https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo explains which packages to install
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05:52<jm_>lunch time for me
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05:57<necronian>Checkinstall seems neat, but I don't see the value for me. If I have to script building a package anyway the little bit of extra logic to install it to a prefix and shove that in a deb seems trivial.
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06:10<binglis>has anyone thought about my problem and have any thoughts on how to solve it
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06:10<binglis>is it a bug because everything worked fine until ssl upgrage
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06:33<petn-randall>binglis: How do you know it's related to SSL? Because you upgraded the whole system, which involves a lot more stuff than just SSL.
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06:44<binglis>petn-randall: I dont know if its related to SSL. everything worked fine until the SSL package updated. Then the backend tables began to be corrupted. It might be something else that is causing this but until the SSL upgrade it all worked perfectly
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06:46<petn-randall>binglis: Everything worked fine until you *upgraded* to bullseye. You're suggesting its related to SSL without verifying it.
06:47<petn-randall>binglis: Unless I missed something, or you debugged it and didn't share the results yet.
06:47<binglis>when i updated the whole system I spent all weekend checking and couldn't find any faults at all. the database worked and all tests were 100%. It might be another underlying issue but what?? everything worked fine in the database until the SSL update in bullseye.
06:49<jm_>I think the last time binglis said this cames with ssl update in bullseye, so it wasn't dist upgrade
06:49<jm_>came*
06:49<binglis>Before this isue arrived it worked in buster with no issues at all and it is now working in buster with no issues. I have chatted with a few people and no one can work out why this is happening. At the moment the database is working on the network
06:51<petn-randall>binglis: You have also upgraded libc. And you have upgraded samba. And you have upgraded hundreds of other libraries. It's a mistake to focus on SSL right now.
06:51<binglis>i dist upgrade to bullseye on Friday 20th aug. Tested all week end and no issues then on wed 25th aug there was an update with SSL. That is when the problems started
06:52<petn-randall>binglis: Ah! So there *is* something you didn't tell us.
06:52<petn-randall>binglis: What happens if you downgrade to the ssl lib from before August 25?
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06:52<petn-randall>binglis: Also, which one exactly?
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06:55<binglis>I needed to get a working database for my client. I had to move the tables local to one of their machines. This worked ok until I down graded back to buster. I did this at the weekend and now everything is working fine again. I need to find out why this happened. It could be something completely different to what i am looking at. I met an old friend last night who is a system administrator
06:55<binglis>although retired he is very knowledable with debian and he has no idea on why this happend
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06:57<petn-randall>binglis: And you're running MS access database on bullseye?
06:58<binglis>also have a debian server at home that I am doing all the tests. because i have only 1 computer with microsoft access on the network everything works fine. it only seems to happen when there is more that 1 windows client with access looking at the network tables
06:59<binglis>no its on a client front end windows 10. the tables are stored on a mapped drive on buster but was previously bullseye
07:00<binglis>as i previously said it works fine with buster and worked fine with bullseye until the SSl upgrade
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07:01<tarzeau>are there some arm64 on raspberry pi 3 and 4 users in here? i'm having problems with aptitude aborting randomly
07:02<petn-randall>binglis: So what are you running on the machine you upgraded? It's not clear to me how that machine is related to your windows 10 machine running MS Access.
07:03<petn-randall>tarzeau: What error are you getting?
07:03<binglis>it is a debian server on the machine i upgrade. Nothing else. it is being used as a file server to store clients data and access tables
07:03<jkc>tarzeau: I'd just use apt, frankly.
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07:05<binglis>there is 5 machines in the network 4 of them using microsoft access. these machines are all windows 10. on each machine the tables are mapped to z drive and this is linked to each local client
07:05<binglis>the z drive is where the tables are stored in a shared folder on the debian server
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07:07<tarzeau>jkc: point is it's used via aptitude-robot (the pkg)
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07:08<tarzeau>petn-randall: i have another 10 machines to do, once i encounter it again, i'll post it, thanks
07:08<petn-randall>binglis: ... via samba?
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07:10<Urk>I have some long standing problems since a failed upgrade attempt to kernel 5.10 and wondering if anyone can address an error message in the debugger for lightdm (display manager)? Error says it is not able to start the Xephyr server which is likely the cause of why my display manager is causing havoc http://paste.debian.net/1210041/
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07:10<Urk>Problem doesn't appear to be an XFCE4 issue since I have returned xfce4 to its default, but to no avail.
07:10<Urk>How do I get the Xephyr server to restart?
07:11<Urk>jmcnaught: You out there?
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07:13<petn-randall>Urk: What OS release is this?
07:14<Urk>Debian stable kerne 4.19 Installer says 10.10.0, but it installas as 10.9
07:15<binglis>petn-randall: yes via samba
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07:16<petn-randall>Urk: Have you tried running xfce4 via regular display manager (gdm3, sddm, etc)? The display managers are usually started without root privileges, which might be a reason your test fails.
07:16<Urk>I just installed xserver-xephyr, and there were some notable changes in the debug screen in lightdm. I am going to test it to see if it was fixed.
07:16<dennisvd>jm_: thanks for the pointer; now I need to figure out which generation this card is. I think I should have most of the software packages installed already, but I'll check tonight.
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07:17<Urk>petn--randall: I set xfce4 to its default settings, but to no avail. The display manager debug screen seems to have a lot of useful information about the problem.
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07:17<Urk>http://paste.debian.net/1210041/
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07:19<Urk>I am going to reboot to see if some improvements can take effect. Debug screen shows pdq was added to the users so hopefully this will fix it.
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07:21<Urk>I am back. Still having problems with lightdm
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07:23<cOOl>hello
07:23<cOOl>urk what is happen with lightdm ?
07:23<dennisvd>My card is an RX 580, according to Tom's hardware it is basically an upgraded RX 480. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-580-review,5020.html
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07:23<cOOl>ok
07:24<cOOl>and what is with lightdm ?
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07:24<dennisvd>The xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu package doesn't seem to recognise it.
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07:24<cOOl>hmm
07:25<cOOl>is non-free enabled inrepo
07:25<dennisvd>yes for sure
07:25<dennisvd>also all the non-free firmware is there
07:25<Urk>Well there are still errors in the debugger screen for light dm http://paste.debian.net/1210047/ Any ideas how to fix this (see line 30)? HOwever, progress is being made.
07:25<dennisvd>But I did come from buster + amdgpu-pro to bullseye without the amd proprietary drivers
07:26<binglis>petn--randall: thanks for taking the time to try and help me. I am a one man band and going north next week for 3-4 weeks starting another job. I will be taking my laptop with me so can ssh and vpn into my own and clients server. Just any help or if you can point me in the right direction would be very much appreciated
07:26<Urk>Well there are still errors in the debugger screen for light dm http://paste.debian.net/1210047/ Any ideas how to fix this (see line 30)? HOwever, progress is being made.
07:26<blast007>dennisvd: do you have the package firmware-amd-graphics installed? do you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf or anything in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ?
07:26<cOOl>binglis is ssh installed on your laptop?
07:27<Urk>I am going to go to the command line with Ctl Alt F3 since I can't pull up the command line in the same screen as this browser due to the LIghtdm problem.
07:27<binglis>even beginning to think of redesigning database to work with mysql/php/apache but that would take quite some time. Would rather try to solve this first
07:27<cOOl>binglis install on your server openssh-server
07:28<binglis>c001: yes putty
07:28<cOOl>is your server a linux maschine?
07:28<binglis>yes
07:28<cOOl>so install openssh-server package
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07:28<binglis>i already have and it works fine
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07:29<cOOl>you can in config enable root login and you can set the port what would be used when it should be other then 22
07:29<cOOl>ah ok
07:29<dennisvd>blast007: I don't know, and I don't have access to the box right this moment. I'll check tonight, but what I basically wanted was some general confirmation that my card *should* work with plain Debian. The reason I went for the amdgpu-pro stuff is that it works with blender for GPU rendering. Now I can't get that to work at all (their version is for Ubuntu 20.04 and the dkms module fails to compile as it
07:29<binglis>thanks but already know allthat
07:29<dennisvd>seems to be for the 5.11 kernel)
07:29<cOOl>ah ok it works :) fine
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07:30<blast007>dennisvd: I've been using an RX 570 on bullseye for several months
07:31<jmcnaught>Urk: instead of trying to start lightdm on the command line you should probably be looking at the output of "systemctl status lightdm" and "journalctl -u lightdm".
07:32<jmcnaught>Urk: also you may have confused your Display Manager lightdm (which handles logins) with your Window Manager (xfwm?) which handles multiple windows and their titlebars in a session.
07:32<jmcnaught>Urk: I still think that you should create another user *for testing* to narrow down whether the problem is system-wide or specific to your user.
07:32<Urk>jmcnaught: I reinstalled the windows manager
07:33<jmcnaught>Urk: anyways good luck, I'm on my way out the door for work.
07:33<dennisvd>blast007: thanks, that means that it basically should work if I get the right packages installed ;-) (Provided that the 570 and the 580 aren't radically different underneath)
07:34<blast007>both the 570 and 580 are Polaris20 XL
07:34<blast007>570 is just cut down a bit and has lower clocks
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07:35<blast007>only thing I had to install for it was the firmware package, and I don't have any xorg conf files
07:36<FLD>strange, glxinfo says they are POLARIS10
07:36<blast007>FLD: hmm, well I'm just going off what Wikipedia says :)
07:37<dennisvd>blast007: thank you, that should give me a clue on where to look. I think the amdgpu-pro installation messed things up more than I thought.
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07:41<jm_>it would be good to mention that first :P
07:41<FLD>x.org lists POLARIS10, POLARIS11 and POLARIS12 as engineering names
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07:49<Urk>How do I change my permissions when running journalctl -u lightdm? I get an error that I can't see anything due to insufficient permissions.
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07:50<jm_>run it as root or using sudo
07:50<jm_>also, why are you using xephyr?
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07:51<Urk>jm_: I received a message earlier indicating that the lack of xephyr was the cause of lightdm not showing up at at position "0".
07:51<Urk>jm_: what do you recommend as an alternative to Xephyr?
07:52<jm_>Urk: I don't know of an alternative, I just asked to ensure xephyr is really something you want, i.e. you want to have another X server for testing or whatever
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07:53<Urk>jm_: Just ran the journalctl -u lightdm, and the error isn't much different than what was found in the debugger. The error suggest there might be a permissions problem with the org.freedesktop.DisplayManager http://paste.debian.net/1210047/ Any idea how to fix that (see line 30)?
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07:56<Urk>There seems to be a fix online at https://archived.forum.manjaro.org/t/lightdm-failed-to-use-bus-name-org-freedesktop-displaymanager/22398 but not sure how to disable sddm.
07:57<Urk>sddm is not installed on my laptop so now what do I do?
07:58<jm_>Urk: why are you not running a real X server? Xephyr is an X client, it won't work without a X server
07:59<Urk>jm_: I was only doing this because of an error message in the lightdm debugger
07:59<jm_>Urk: which gfx hardware do you have?
07:59<Urk>Not sure what you mean.
07:59<jm_>graphic card/on board graphics/...
08:00<Urk>Incidentally I installed the xephyr server earlier
08:00<Urk>jm_: Intel
08:00<Urk>I am on a Dell XPS 15 7590.
08:00<jm_>Urk: so it's xserver-xorg-video-intel unless you want wayland (i.e. gnome)
08:02<Urk>Its already installed.
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08:03<Urk>How do I check my permissions for org.freedesktop.DisplayManager ??
08:03<Urk>http://paste.debian.net/1210047/
08:04<jm_>for me lightdm starts: /usr/bin/X ... - check /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log and also check what /usr/bin/X points to, sadly I have to run now
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08:05<jm_>you're looking at wrong thing I believe - find out why it's not trying to start Xorg instead
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08:06<dennisvd>jm_: sorry, it can be a bit challenging to explain a problem succinctly when I've already spent several hours trying various things :-(((
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08:07<Urk>I am leaning on getting rid of lightdm and move to sddm
08:07<Urk>Has anyone tried sddm?
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08:11<urk>jm_: Well getting rid of lightdm and going to sddm fixed the problem. Something is broken with lightdm.
08:12<urk>However, the display is a bit tiny, and needs some tweaking. Maybe when I wake up I can tweak it to get it fixed.
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08:13<urk>What display manager is used with kernel 5.10? I am still in kernel 4.19 and could never get kernel 5.10 to work correctly, but can't help but wonder if the problem was the display manager. Does everyone else see this dark blue background with kernel 5.10?
08:13<cmm11>the kernel version should have no affect on what display manager you use
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09:17<tepozoa>I *just* installed bullseye on a spare laptop with MATE last night, lightdm works just fine out of the box 100% defaults. didn't have to touch a single thing
09:18<DoctorD90>hello! In past I dd-ed the iso of xfce/gnome on an hdd of a laptop and I used it as living image. I parted the remaining space of the disk (less the iso image) to store data. All went good. Now I tried to do it with a nvme, but it reports (once dd-ed the debian 11 xfce iso) that the full disk is taken without left space (gparted) and other tools (parted, gdisk, fdisk) gave a different feedback. https://pastebin.com/iJhTtLpT anyone has any
09:18<DoctorD90>idea how to solve it adding a normal addigionatl partition for persistent data?
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09:30<tepozoa>I am just getting started with NVMe (I don't have one yet) but I believe the solution is to use "namespaces" - install the nvme-cli package to provide the `nvme` command as a start, you really want that tool for things. You can then make namespaces within the device itself, which are sort of like "hardware partitions" - /dev/nvme0 is the whole device, /dev/nvme0n1 is partition 1,
09:30<tepozoa>/dev/nvme0n1p1 is your more familiar (parted, gpt, etc) Linux partition 1 within namespace 1
09:31<grawity>DoctorD90: GPT partition tables have an explicit "last usable sector", which in your case is set to the image's size – I don't remember where in gdisk or fdisk it can be changed though
09:31<binglis>petn--randall: I was out working and was hoping to hear from you about my issue. Have any ideas at all what I should do next. Thanks in advance
09:31<grawity>I *think* I used sfdisk --dump | grep -v last-lba
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09:35<DoctorD90>tepozoa, I ended up with the same though...cause it seems the ISO take in any case the full space of "disk" I use. So I thought to clean the namespace used and create 2 namespaces (1 5gb for ISO, 1 remaining space for data). But before everything I preferd to ask :)
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09:36<tepozoa>grawity is right as well -- that is how you would go about actually adjusting the GPT headers. I think a more "nvme-ic" (like "pythonic") :)) way to do this is use the natural nvme features and use namespaces.
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09:36<tepozoa>I'm a cheap guy using all 2nd hand hardware, some day I'll get a NVMe drive :)
09:36<DoctorD90>grawity, yeah, the problem is that (maybe give a look at the pastebin i linked, it will be more clearer than my words probably), each tool recognize the partitions in different ways. Gdisk tells me that it is not possible to write the GPT or it will write on sectors of partition too, other says partiotns are inverted...it gave me a strange feeling
09:37<tepozoa>I kinda want to learn through you - make some namespaces with your idea and ping me later on how it worked out :)
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09:37<DoctorD90>yeah yeah :D but that was also my idea ! But as you said, probably someone else already had some similar experience and solved :P
09:39<tepozoa>NVMe is complex - it has it's own version of mulitpathing, booting from fiber channel and all sorts of great stuff. It's no longer just a simple drive, there are tons of features
09:39<DoctorD90>tepozoa, running commands with nvme-cli (i already insatlled a couple of days/boots ago) it gave me that is supports/have only 1 namespace. And from a FAST read, I should do a couple of math to align the partition with nvme properties
09:39<DoctorD90>yeah...so I would prefer to play with it as less as possible :P
09:40<DoctorD90>I will try the grawity commands...even if that will provide me the last sector. The problem is to *update* the fat/gpt.....now that seems to be the problem from output I got
09:40<tepozoa>guess: consumer grade NVMe drives have features removed (in firmware) to keep the cost lower. THe "enterprise grade" NVMe drives probably have all the features of the specifications
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09:41<idotmaster1>Debian is epic
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09:42<DoctorD90>im scarerd that's true tepozoa
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09:44<jkc>tepozoa: That is not true. Consumer grade NVMe devices use flash that doesn't last as long.
09:44<jkc>Enterprise grade NVMe drives use SLC flash. Lasts forever, fast as OMG, but also expensive as OMG.
09:46<jkc>There are MLC SSDs in use for the layer between "Fast as OMG" and "bulk storage." TLC and QLC, which is what you find in most consumer NVMe SSDs, not so much. Doesn't last long enough to absorb the kind of write lifetimes you see in enterprise-level storage arrays.
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09:47<jkc>DoctorD90: ^
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09:48<coolguy75>Hey, all. I'm having a problem where anytime I try to install a new package I get the "no installation candidate" error. I've had this install since buster was in testing and never had a problem like this. I think this started happening after the bullseye release but only noticed yesterday. Here is my sources.list: https://paste.debian.net/1210079/
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09:48<DoctorD90>jkc, OMG i was reading xD ahahah.... your unit of measure make me fall from the chair :D but yeah...that's a better news :P
09:48<theooooo>hey guys, I am trying to install thinkfan on Debian 11 bullseye and it does not appear to be in the repos
09:48<theooooo>Is there a reason for this and can I install it anyways?
09:48<DoctorD90>btw the issue remain :D no tool able to provide certain information on the partitions/able to write the correct information in proper way
09:48<theooooo>and if so, how?
09:49<jkc>DoctorD90: Restate your issue for me?
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09:49<petn-randall>theooooo: It was removed due to RC bugs. It's available from sid, but you have to manually edit the config file before it works.
09:50<theooooo>Interesting, were the bugs very serious?
09:50<theooooo>Also, how would I go about installing it from other repos?
09:51<petn-randall>theooooo: The "serious" bug was that starting it failed when you installed it. Because it is automatically started but there is no valid config, so it fails, which in turn makes apt/dpkg abort. So something that is easy to fix manually, and probably should be fixed in the packaging, too.
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09:53<DoctorD90>jkc, sure, thanks. Im used to dd the DEFAULT live iso of debian to the hdd of pc and use it as clean image at each boot. Im used to create a partition too for persistent data (some download, some sharing data). Now I did it on a pc with an NVME and all software used (gparted, parted, gdisk, fdisk) gave me different behaviour (gparted gave me full disk, no space left). Parted and other strange warning on writing or unability to correct
09:53<DoctorD90>view/handle the 2 partition)(all in this pastebin: https://pastebin.com/iJhTtLpT)
09:53<DoctorD90>theooooo, I find out a github repository. Try to use it :)
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09:55<jkc>DoctorD90: That's because you wrote the ISO to the disk itself, not a partition.
09:55<jkc>DoctorD90: I really don't think that the live ISO was intended to be used in this manner.
09:55<DoctorD90>jkc, dd if=iso of=/dev/nvm0n1
09:55<theooooo>Interesting, will they patch it and then add it back to the repos? Perhaps it's better to just wait?
09:56<jkc>DoctorD90: Yes, I know what you did.
09:56<DoctorD90>jkc, yea, I just gave you to be sure I did it :) on some guide there are also dd to a partition instead of a disk (sda1 instead of sda)
09:57<DoctorD90>btw in the past it worke perfectly :(
09:57<jkc>DoctorD90: Let's back up a bit. WHY do you want a system configured like this?
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09:59<DoctorD90>jkc, well, I need a simple fresh install for different scopes and tests on different network/infra...much more easier than keep an USB attached all the time :D
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10:01<jkc>DoctorD90: Okay, that makes sense. My suggestion to start with would be to use gdisk and wipe all existing structures on the disk.
10:01<jkc>DoctorD90: gpart /dev/nvme0n1, then these in order: X, Z, Y, Y.
10:01<jkc>Erases GPT, MBR, etc.
10:01<jkc>There may be some remnant that's confusing things.
10:02<jelly>that's almost XYZZY
10:02<jkc>Almost. :P
10:03<DoctorD90>jkc, just to add a bit on your top idea, previously there were Wintrash10 on it...so yeah....im thinking at your hint....probably this could help a lot...btw....XZYY?? what do you mean?
10:03<DoctorD90>ah! command to run
10:03<DoctorD90>sorry I was thinking to replacement/example...gotcha
10:03<jkc>Well, gpart /dev/nvme0n1 is the command.
10:04<jkc>Not gpart, christ.
10:04<jkc>GDISK.
10:04<jkc>gdisk /dev/nvme0n1
10:04<jkc>The menu options within gdisk are, in order, x, z, y, y.
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10:05<DoctorD90>yeah yeah :P I thougth at some sort of replacement for sub partition or similar....I got the "exact sub commnad to run" only reading it at 3rd times :P hehe
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10:06<DoctorD90>well...it is in use rigth now :P let me wait for the end of process and I will try :D thanks guys :)
10:07<tjcarter>jkc: Missed opportunity to make it xyzzy
10:08<tjcarter>oh, jelly already got there
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10:16<Psi-Jack>So, in Current debian 11 repos is borgmatic 1.5.12-2, but when I use --version on it actually, I get 1.5.13.dev0, which is a bit off. heh.
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10:17<petn-randall>Psi-Jack: It might be upstream that b0rked the version number.
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10:18<Psi-Jack>Might be, indeed. heh
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10:18<jelly>or a carelessly picked cherry patch
10:18<Psi-Jack>I'm actually curious how I might get a newer version of borgmatic, and I never liked to trust pip as-is. borgmatic being a python program.
10:18<jelly>,v borgmatic
10:18<judd>Package: borgmatic on amd64 -- buster: 1.2.11-1; bookworm: 1.5.12-2; bullseye: 1.5.12-2; sid: 1.5.12-2
10:19<jelly>not from debian sources right now
10:19<Psi-Jack>For some reason, between borgmatic 1.5.12 and 1.5.17, they added the "borg" action command to directly send commands to borg through borgmatic wrapping.
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10:22<Psi-Jack>Eh, probably could use py2deb maybe>?
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10:24<Psi-Jack>Warning: apt-key is deprecated. Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d instead (see apt-key(8)).
10:25<Psi-Jack>Hmmm.. So my method of backing up apt keys is now deprecated, wow.
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10:26<Psi-Jack>And the command getting me that message is: apt-key exportall > /etc/restore/Repo.keys
10:26<tjcarter>dpkg, imgur
10:26<dpkg>i don't know, tjcarter
10:27<Psi-Jack>Heh, apt-key itself is practically mostly deprecated now?
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10:27<tjcarter>dpkg, imgur is <reply> A handy way to upload images to imgur from a command line can be found at https://github.com/ram-on/imgurbash2
10:27<dpkg>tjcarter: okay
10:28<smashgrab>I just installed fresh debian bullseye kde environment with full disk encryption on older pc wondering if pc just can't handle it.
10:28<tjcarter>useful enough I added it to my stupid-debian-tricks
10:28<smashgrab>Performance seems acceptible overall but playing youtube videos in any web browser gives strange behavior.
10:28<smashgrab>Sometimes no audio, sometimes audio with hiccups every few seconds, sometimes garbled audio, while video is usually going very fast like an old VCR might fast forward through a video.
10:28<smashgrab>CPU (i7-4790) is definitely taxed but doesn't seem like it should be getting these results. System is Dell Inspiron 3847, has SATA hdd.
10:28<jelly>Psi-Jack, yes, you're supposed to remember how to create a public keyring, old format, with new gpg, and put a separate file in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/foo.gpg
10:29<smashgrab>any help suggestion appreciated, thanks.
10:29<tjcarter>smashgrab: I use LUKS on an i7-3770
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10:30<smashgrab>hmmm
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10:30<jelly>smashgrab, which video card? Sounds like something is very not accelerated
10:31<tjcarter>smashgrab: The problem isn't the CPU or LUKS. Might be RAM or VM swappiness or video driver or DRM … but not CPU.
10:31<smashgrab>jelly: thing is previous debian install had no issue at all, but no encryption then.
10:31<jelly>smashgrab, if you install youtube-dl and mpv and play "mpv 'URL-of-youtube-video'", is that any better?
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10:31<smashgrab>will try that now
10:32<tjcarter>learning to love youtube-dl
10:32<binglis>petn-randall: any ideas on how to solve the corrupt back-end access tables stored on debian server using samba. I am at a complete loss and dont know what to do
10:32<smashgrab>happens in both firefox and chromium btw
10:32<tjcarter>especially since for some reason VDH can't find coapp anymore
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10:37<jelly>smashgrab, mmh. Is firmware for the graphic card installed?
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10:39<Psi-Jack>heh, well, at least it's simpler to manage in my backup/restore hook scripts. 🙂
10:39<jelly>smashgrab, which gpu is in there
10:40<smashgrab>jelly: just tried youtube-dl and playing with mpv cand get same result, with lots of dropped frames https://paste.debian.net/1210089/
10:40<Psi-Jack>dpkg --get-selections > /etc/restore/Package.list; and dpkg --set-selections < /etc/restore/Package.list -- Is still a good way to backup and restore installed packages to/from a file, right/
10:40*dpkg selects psi-jack's family photos collection
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10:41<smashgrab>is stock video card that came with dell let me see if i can determine. But strange had zero problems just 1 version of debian ago.
10:41<jelly>!aptitude clone
10:41<dpkg>To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
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10:41<Psi-Jack>Ooooh.
10:41<Psi-Jack>But. aptitude? Hmm
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10:43<Psi-Jack>aptitude's not even included in the base install. :(
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10:43<mason>jelly: Ah, I was wondering why one would do that over dpkg --get-selections, but manual/automatic makes it a win.
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10:43<petn-randall>binglis: You need to debug why they're getting corrupted. Also, try rolling back libssl1.1, assuming that's what you upgraded before it broke.
10:43<tjcarter>it's not, I'm convinced because of the brown.
10:45<smashgrab>jelly: I believe it is Intel HD Graphics 4600. I have some specs now and mpv problems might make searching this more fruitful but any ideas come to mind let me know.
10:45<tjcarter>make aptitude not use blue on brown: https://gitlab.com/iKarith/stupid-debian-tricks/-/raw/main/etc_apt_apt.conf.d/99aptitude-colors
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10:50<binglis>petn-randall: thanks for you time and patience. I downgraded the server back to buster. At present all is working fine. I have spare computer in the house and will take that down one weekend in the future. Will then upgrade to bullseye and see if the error happens again and if so then send it a bug report. Just so frustrating that this happened. again thank everyone for their help. no doubt
10:50<binglis>i will be back at some distant future time take care and stay safe
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10:52<petn-randall>binglis: No, don't downgrade to *buster*, just downgrade libssl1.1 from 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1 to 1.1.1k-1.
10:52<petn-randall>binglis: Since you mentioned that the problem started after upgrading it to 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1.
10:53<binglis>too late I did it at the week end. needed a working database on the network.
10:53<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, The live (and installer) .iso images contain within themselves a partition table. When you dd (or whatever) that .iso image to the root of a disk, you are creating a partition table on that disk.
10:53<jelly>smashgrab, is firmware-misc-nonfree and which version? Is intel-media-va-driver-non-free installed?
10:54<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, when you start trying to add more partitions, you need to be careful, or else you will no longer have a usable live system.
10:54<jelly>smashgrab, or maybe not that last one, which cpu model is that
10:56<binglis>petn-randall:buster is still being supported until 2024 and it works there. plus i am going away for 3-4 weeks on another job. Needed a working network backend and it works in buster. Will look at the problem when I get back and use a spare computer first
10:56<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, in particular, as your pasted output shows, you trashed that original partition table when you used gpart to make a GPT partition table, as the output told you.
10:56<binglis>petn-randall: thanks for your time :)
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10:58<petn-randall>binglis: Yes, I'd also recreate the issue on a testbed first. You're welcome. :)
10:58<smashgrab>jelly: nothing non-free atm is installed, will have a look at the repos. System is Dell Inspiron 3847, cpu is intel i7-4790.
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11:00<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, that odd setup in the live/installer images, is so that they will work correctly on actual ISO9660 optical media, and also will work correctly when dd-ed onto a USB stick.
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11:01<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, as I told you on the other channel, it is possible to add more partitions to the USB stick version of this, by _carefully_ using fdisk (not gpart)
11:01<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, I don't have any experience with nvme mass storage, so I don't know how much the USB version of this setup will carry over to there.
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11:04<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, again, my advice if you want to keep that live system available as an alternative, is to install it as a dual-boot
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11:05<urk>Well I switched display manages to sddm from lightdm, and everything is working again, but only with LXDE desktop. It won't work with XFCE. Any suggestions on alternatives to Lightdm that will work with XFCE?
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11:06<urk>I did like the menus that XFCE offered, and they could be customized similar to the menu that Apple uses.
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11:06<urk>One option would be to just customize the desktop in LXDE and not worry about XFCE for now. I already filed a trouble ticket on Github as it relates to the error message that showed up in the lightdm debugger.
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11:10<DoctorD90>thanks Sqrt{not} but I dont need to install/dual boot it. Otherwise another solution would be to create a sort of "grub bootable partition" that will load the iso....a tricky work around...btw, I dont fully agree on your part about the fat/gpt....The fact is that I didnt touch anything, it is "theoretically" in read only mode cause I never writed the output of any program,so it is "messed" like from the start :P
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11:12<DoctorD90>and as yo suggested me I also wrote the issue/situation here :) on previous experiences the gparted worked well, so my wondering was mainly if there were some changes too (and as usual and before, thanks for your support!)
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11:13<jelly>smashgrab, you _will_ need at least the firmware to get things working properly, sorry about that. /msg dpkg non-free sources
11:14<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, it is hybrid from the start, so it can boot in both UEFI or BIOS environments, and it contains a little ESP to facilitate the UEFI booting. This makes it look weird to some partitioning tools
11:14<jkc>Sqrt{not}: If you're using modern fdisk or gdisk, it won't look weird at all.
11:14<jelly>smashgrab, but that other thing is only for 8th generation intel gpu and newer, you won't need it
11:15<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, from your paste: "Using GPT and creating fresh protective MBR."
11:15<Sqrt{not}>jkc, yes, I already suggested fdisk
11:15<jkc>You shouldn't be creating a protective MBR manually. Either tool will do so automatically.
11:15<Sqrt{not}>tell that to DoctorD90
11:16<jkc>DoctorD90: Are you following a guide or something?
11:16<avar> Remove the git_editor() function last referenced in
11:16<Sqrt{not}>it is already there, it just needs to be edited carfully with fdisk
11:16<avar>(sorry)
11:16<DoctorD90>Sqrt{not}, yeah, but I didnt wrote the changes - probably that was not fully clear from pastebin/my explaination
11:17<jkc>DoctorD90: Write the image to the disk. cp /path/to/iso /dev/nvme0n1
11:17<jkc>Then gdisk /dev/nvme0n1 and add a new partition to the end.
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11:18<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, I don't have any nvme experience, so I'm out of advice. I only wanted to point out that that image you dd'ed there, already has a partition table, and fdisk understands it much better than gpart
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11:19<DoctorD90>jkc, no, just using a little bit of knowlegde and "average tools". In previous experience it was enough to use gparted with GUI and it showed up the free space. Now gparted shows no left space left and I went with terminal commands - but (too) strange output for me
11:19<jkc>DoctorD90: Spoiler alert: gparted is trash.
11:19<jkc>It obfuscates so much stuff, and what it doesn't obfuscate, it misrepresents.
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11:20<DoctorD90>Sqrt{not}, oh yeah yeah...that's is clear for me, for this I wanted to keep as simpler/untouched as possible, trying to simply adding a new partition to the "default"
11:20<fb61>/part
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11:20<DoctorD90>jkc, oh thanks....that is popping out clear to me with that issue :P many people are telling it to me :P
11:21<jkc>cp the iso to the disk (not a partition), use fdisk/gdisk to add a new partition at the end. Make filesystem on new partition.
11:21<jkc>DONE.
11:21<ibs2001>sney: the installation error from bullseye DVD ISO file seems related to Ubuntu 20.04LTS host and Virtualbox 6.1.26. No errors with the W10 host and the same version of Virtualbox
11:21<DoctorD90>ah! you mean cp direcly the iso? omg...I didnt know cp could do it :P new stuff learnt
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11:22<jkc>Sure. Linux, everything is a file.
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11:22<jkc>Copy the contents of iso to the file /dev/nvme0n1. Except that /dev/nvme0n1 points to the SSD.
11:22<DoctorD90>oh well...always used dd....I will try immediatly in that way after wiping a bit the gpt/fat
11:22<scorpion2185[m]>>Data Link: reliable transmission of data frames between two nodes con-
11:22<scorpion2185[m]>nected by a connected by a physical layer
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11:24<smashgrab>jelly: unfortunately, no luck with the non-free firmware. Tried firmware-linux-nonfree first, and then intel-media-va-driver non-free just for the hell of it. mpv still has problems. Going to keep looking into this...
11:24<DoctorD90>jkc, I think I may dd 10Mb to the nvme01, then gdisk the fat/gpt with command you gave me and then cp iso /dev/nvme0n1 ...in that way I think I should assume everything should be "clean" enough...do you agree?
11:24<jkc>DoctorD90: No.
11:24<jkc>The dd part is superfluous as hell.
11:24<jkc>You're going to wipe out the relevant crap with gdisk anyway.
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11:25<DoctorD90>ok i will skip it
11:25<scorpion2185[m]>2 by?
11:27<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, and copying the .iso is going to overwrite your practice partition table anyway
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11:28<jkc>Sqrt{not}: The image isn't the same size as the disk. The backup GPT at the end of the disk would still be there.
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11:28<jkc>Hence using gdisk to wipe that out.
11:29<DoctorD90>you are rigth. Bad experience with gparted as you stated let me bring to use dd on first sectors to wipe fat and initials gpt stuff....just a bad behaviour :)
11:29<jkc>That's why dd'ing the start of a disk isn't reliable. Ignores all the stuff at the END.
11:30<DoctorD90>jkc sorry, cp doesnt do the same? it doesnt ignore the stuff at the END ?
11:30<jkc>Sure it does.
11:31<jkc>But we're not using cp for the 'clear the crap off the disk' step. That's what gdisk and the 'clear the crap off the disk' operation is for.
11:31<jkc>We're using cp to put the data on the disk after the 'clear the crap off the disk' step is done.
11:32<DoctorD90>ok. So it is not fully clear to me the different between cp and dd, but I dont think this is the place to ask for it :) I will google a bit later :)
11:32<urk>I seem to be getting closer to the source of my display problems, and a potential fix. From what I have determined, xfce4.12 does not work correctly with both the Lightdm, sddm, nor lxde display managers. I am exploring the possibility of downgrading to xfce4, and also looking at the possibility of customizing LXDE interface so that is has the menus similar to xfce
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11:35<jkc>DoctorD90: cp is simply 'copy from x to y.' dd can do a lot more in terms of data transformation.
11:35<jkc>But we don't need that. We need 'copy x to y.'
11:36<DoctorD90>jkc, thanks
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11:56<DoctorD90>jkc, gdisk /dev/nvme0n1 and created a blank gpt and zapped it. Cp the iso and now, gdisk tells me again line 29 https://pastebin.com/iJhTtLpT = gpt is not usable. Did I do any error?
11:57<Urk>What is the command for showing which version of XFCE4 that I have? I suspect the update to XFCE4.12 might be the source of the problems I am having with my display managers. Both LightDM, sddm, LXDM don't work. However, sddm worked flawlessly with LXDE, but I would prefer to stay with XFCE if possible, but open to just adding a menu to the
11:57<Urk>bottom of LXDE.
11:57<Urk>I have tried a bunch of commands after selecting Ctrl Alt F3, but nothing comes up.
11:58<Urk>I am not able to pull anything up in the current display unless I shut down my browser.
11:58<smashgrab>\quit
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12:20<tepozoa>Urk: I think you're looking for Ctrl+Alt+F5, that should give you the bare console (F7 gets you back the GUI desktop)
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12:23<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, I took a closer look at your paste. It looks like you are running from the live system on /dev/sda, probably a USB? It looks like not even gdisk is recognizing the full extent of the copied live image on your SSD.
12:25<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, I think you should use fdisk to create your extra partition(s) in nvme0n1. But maybe you want to make another nvme device, separate from nvme0, e.g. nvme1, and make partitions there.
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12:26<Sqrt{not}>This is the part where I am not experienced. It looks like you have nothing else in the disks at this point? Is that right?
12:28<smashgrab>About earlier problem. Am able to play videos without problem using Pure OS live cd. Kernel is older than bullseye is one difference. Going to try a reinstall of just xfce task and see if videos play out of the box. Then will try install without LUKS just to eliminate that.
12:29<Sqrt{not}>If you can do it in a separate nvme space, and just leave nvme0 with only the .iso copy int, and allocate the remaining SSD space into another partitioned space, then you don't need to fight with the existing partition tables of the .iso
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12:31<jkc>(Note that nvme0 is an interface, not a disk)
12:33<another>(Note that consumer devices don't necessarily support more than 1 NS)
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12:34<jkc>Still, nvme0 is not a disk.
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12:36<canerandagio>hello! I have old ustable and I want to upgrade to new stable, can I follow the normal rules as in debian wiki?
12:37<jkc>canerandagio: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
12:38<scorpion2185[m]>!buster->bullseye
12:38<scorpion2185[m]>I made a key for unlock swap partitio0n
12:40<scorpion2185[m]>but it isno working
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12:42<canerandagio>jkc: i didn't explain myself well, now i have debian 11 unstable and i want to upgrade to debian 11 stable. the link you gave me is not useful.
12:43<imMute>canerandagio: there is no difference other than the name changed. make sure your sources.list uses "bullseye" and not "unstable" though
12:43<canerandagio>ok, that's it. thanks
12:44<Urk>test
12:44<coolguy75>Hey, all. I'm having a problem where anytime I try to install a new package I get the "no installation candidate" error. I've had this install since testing == buster and never had a problem like this. I think this started happening after the bullseye release but only noticed yesterday when I tried to install a new program. My sources.list was
12:44<coolguy75>using bullseye as a target before the release. Here is my sources.list now: https://paste.debian.net/1210079/
12:45<Urk>Any thoughts on how to downgrade from XFCE 4.12.5-1? I am running Buster 10.9, kernel 4.19 Most of the display managers will not work correctly with XFCE4.12.5-1, and I have tried many including LightDM, sddm, LXDM, etc.
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12:45<Urk>However, LXDE works flawlessly with sddm, but not with my current version of XFCE4.12.5-1
12:46<Urk>Initially I thought something was wrong with my LightDM display manager http://paste.debian.net/1210047/ but now conclude not enough testing took place with the latest XFCE update so reverting to an earlier version of XFCE seems like a reasonable option.
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12:47<Urk>I'm also open to using the LXDE desktop if I can figure out how to get a menu just like the one with all the icons in XFCE
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12:48<DoctorD90>thanks Sqrt{not} that was the last beach....as another said, probably Im not allowed to play with namespaces. From an nvme-cli command I run, only 1 namespace is supported probably.
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12:48<Urk>I suspect problems with the latest xfce might be interfering with my upgrade to kernel 5.10 which didn't go well at all.
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12:49<DoctorD90>Sqrt{not}, and yes, to play with the nvme I run the live from an usb, otherwise it would be impossible for me to edit the nvme. And yes again, it is totally empty.....nothing more than the iso
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12:50<DoctorD90>Currently Im trying to run the solution of grub.....at least I will remember something about the grub-boot ...even if at this point, I will run some test, cause something seems totally changed by previous version. Maybe it is just my bad red-fish memory...I have to check :)
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12:56<houari>hi
12:57<jkc>canerandagio: The link I gave you answered your exact question. The fact that you didn't ask the right question doesn't make what I gave you not useful.
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12:58<canerandagio>you right
12:58<canerandagio>jck:u right!
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13:02<scorpion2185[m]>why the key doesn't work? with `cryptsetup --test-passphrase --key-file /root/key luksOpen /dev/sdaX` no errors
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13:34<Urk>jelly: https://termbin.com/gxfc
13:36<somiaj>Urk: you switched networks, you should try to keep your conversation in a single channel/network
13:36<Urk>somiaj: which network was I in? I don't remember because I had to close my browser so that I could run the command.
13:38<somiaj>maybe you should better keep track of that, or configure your client to let you know better, but since there are really only two, and this is oftc, you were on libera
13:38<somiaj>well two that we support
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13:48<tjcarter>somiaj: I wasn't really paying attention to irc in the daze Debian left freenode … the telethon spam had a lot to do with that I suspect?
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13:52<jkc>More that the guy who took over freenode is a profiteering, narcissistic scam artist.
13:55<mooff>^ RIP Freenode
13:55<tjcarter>I've heard that opinion. I've also heard that he was the target of the same sort of smears that were aimed at Linus Torvalds and others. Since everything I was hearing was at least 2nd or 3rd hand at best, I decided not to form an opinion based upon what I had access to.
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13:55<sney>and we really don't need to relitigate the whole thing every time it comes up
13:55<jkc>The "profiteering, narcissistic scam artist" part isn't an opinion.
13:56<jkc>Literally gaslighting as a business strategy.
13:56<jkc>Anyway.
13:56<tjcarter>jkc: I've seen proffered evidence that "scam artist" at least is an attempt at a scam itself. But again, both sides were very much expecting me to accept a lot on little evidence.
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13:57<tjcarter>And Debian left Freenode years ago
13:57<jkc>tjcarter: Debian maintained a huge presence on freenode up until it become leenode. As for "little evidence," evidence ABOUNDS for Lee's behavior. That people view him as a scam artist is well-earned on his part.
13:57<mooff>i only checked out Libera yesterday. i think their guides are spot on, e.g https://libera.chat/guides/catalyst
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13:58<jkc>tjcarter: You're welcome to ignore all of the evidence if you really want to. You are entitled to your own opinions. You are now, however, entitled to your own facts.
13:58<jkc>s/now/not/
13:58<sney>and it's the biggest irc drama in over a decade, as evidenced by how much people want to talk about it over and over
13:59<tjcarter>jkc: you are doing what everyone else has: You insist that I just take YOUR word for it. You haven't offered any evidence, you're just telling me that it exists and implying something about my character that I have "ignored" what you yourself didn't share.
13:59<sney>!offtopic
13:59<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
13:59<sney>please.
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14:02<jeffry>Hi
14:02<mooff>i think you could convince tjcarter with evidence, so please do join -offtopic, jkc
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14:02<jeffry>Im trying to implement internal-sftp in debian 11 but it didnt work
14:03<jeffry>Is working well in debian 10 with the same configuration
14:03<tjcarter>mooff: re: that guide … OFTC and oldskool channels on Freenode dating back to the LISC daze have generally tried to operate that way, but it's very good of Libera to try and spell it out for people. It's a good model.
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14:05<jeffry>Please i need some help with internal-sftp on debian 11
14:05<mooff>tjcarter: yes. i think it's telling that the volunteers who could articulate it so well moved en-masse to Libera
14:06<tjcarter>jeffry: can you provide a little more information?
14:06<mooff>jeffry: i remember that it changed in an openssh release along the way
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14:06<mooff>let me find the right line from my server
14:06<tjcarter>it did
14:06<mooff>Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server
14:06<tjcarter>that's not internal mooff
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14:07<mooff>it's the new default line
14:07<mooff>it works, and i remember seeing an explanation that must have deprecated internal-sftp
14:07<tjcarter>Subsystem sftp internal-sftp is the more recent implementation, the new upstream default, etc
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14:08<tjcarter>It's OpenBSD so "newer" is relative. It was added in 2008
14:09<jeffry>I changed in debian 10 like this # Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server to Subsystem sftp internal-sftp and working well but in DEBIAN 11 is not working
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14:11<mooff>tjcarter, are you sure?
14:12<tjcarter>sshd.config(5) and a quick look at changelogs
14:13<tjcarter>that said, I've gotta run off for next leg of the day's cancer appointment gauntlet
14:14<mooff>good luck mate
14:14<tjcarter>thanks, already had my scan. Results were boring.
14:14<mooff>the best kind of cancer results
14:15<mooff>jeffry: both lines work for me on a new bullseye server
14:15<mooff>what error do you see in the journal?
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14:18<jeffry>i'm using not login shell users
14:19<jeffry>In debian 10 working fine but in debian 11 i cannot login
14:19<jeffry>client_loop: send disconnect: Broken pipe
14:21<DoctorD90>tepozoa, nvme cmd line tool refuse to delete/create namespaces :)
14:22<DoctorD90>jkc, Sqrt{not}, I ended up in creating a grub partition to load stuff. Currently Im probably messing with grub.cfg cause I cant load the iso, but at least now grub boots :P
14:22<tepozoa>have you repremanded it, gave it a timeout and asked it to think about the error of it's ways? :) /s
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14:23<mooff>jeffry, what is the output of: sudo journalctl -u ssh -n 25 --no-pager
14:23<mooff>on the server
14:24<mooff>after you try to use sftp...
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14:24<tepozoa>jeffry: I scanned changelogs and release notes, nothing specific has show up in my searches. Can you build a test VM and replicate the problem on a fresh install with making onlt that one change?
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14:25<jeffry>mooff i have this:Sep 02 13:03:15 jfcor sshd[829]: Accepted password for jfmaster from fe80::aa20:66ff:fe46:6056%enp1s0 port 59544 ssh2
14:26<dan1>hi since I upgraded to bullseye copypasting doesn't work anymore how it should be
14:26<jeffry>and this Sep 02 13:03:15 jfcor sshd[829]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session closed for user jfmaster
14:26<dan1>I asked about this the other day and in the end I thought it was a gnome-terminal issue, but I was wrong is a more general problem
14:26<mooff>jeffry, the lines in between must be more interesting :)
14:26<mooff>dan1: how did it work before, and how does it work now?
14:27<dan1>am I the only having these kind of issues? it's basically a weird behavior after the other
14:27<dan1>mooff: I'm gonna explain it now but it's a little complicated since I don't understand what's really going on
14:27<dan1>well on buster it just worked
14:27<mooff>i wonder if you were using X before the upgrade, and now are on Wayland
14:28<dan1>I think it's a wayland problem, but I thought I was using it before as well, but I'm not sure
14:28<mooff>select + middle click paste works for me here, and Ctrl+Shift+c / v
14:28<mooff>on X
14:28<dan1>the two copypasting methods are the same, the clipboards are shared
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14:29<dan1>at the beginning the problem was that the terminal and the rest of the system seemed to have different clipboards
14:29<jeffry>mooff do you think that i need to install my system again ,
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14:30<mooff>no, jeffry
14:30<mooff>would you mind copying your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file to paste.debian.net ?
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14:31<dan1>completely isolated clipboards. I changed terminal emulator and the problem was solved. after that I had another problem, I used the search to find a file, tried to copy the name of that file and it wouldn't get copied. there was no problem copying the name if I would find the file navigating the folders thoug. out of curiosity I try to go back to the gnome-terminal to find out if the first issue was still there, it wasn't, system clipboard
14:31<dan1>was shared by the terminal doesn't matter wich terminal emulator I was using.
14:32<mooff>and, are you saying there is no other information between the 'Accepted password' and 'session closed' lines pasted above? jeffry
14:32<mooff>dan1, what's the output of: echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
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14:33<dan1>now I encountered another case. if I copy something and then select something else in order to ovveriding by pasting, it will actually copy and paste whatever is selected. out of curiosity I checked if the second issue (search file and try to copy the filename) was still there and it wasn't, now I could copy filenames without any problem. weird.
14:34<dan1>yeah it's wayland
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14:35<dan1>so basically all these problems never appear at the same time
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14:37<mooff>i haven't used Wayland much, someone else should have a better idea how the clipboard operates there
14:37<dan1>so you think I should go back to X?
14:37<mooff>do you remember making any tweaks, or installing any utilities to help you manage the clipboard?
14:38<dan1>I didn't
14:38<mooff>i think it's worth seeing if X behaves the way you expect
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14:38<mooff>at the login screen, assuming you're on Gnome / GDM, there is a cog in the bottom right that will let you choose "GNOME / X11" or similar
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14:40<dan1>yeah I know, thanks I'll give it a try
14:41<jeffry>mooff i have the link paste.debian.net/1210134
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14:41<mooff>sweet
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14:42<mooff>jeffry: is there a 'ForceCommand' line below what's in the paste?
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14:44<jeffry>mooff no there is not
14:44<mooff>try adding one, directly below the ChrootDirectory line: ForceCommand internal-sftp
14:45<jeffry>Ok mooff i'm going to do that thanks man
14:45<mooff>don't forget you must reload for changes to take effect: systemctl reload sshd
14:45<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, I don't know what you mean with a grub partition. Let me ask this: when you first dd/cp the .iso onto your SSD, can you then boot from it, before any editing of the partitions?
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14:50<jkc>Sqrt{not}: Grub on GPT booting via BIOS/CSM (not UEFI) requires a small partition so that grub can embed its bootcode.
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14:53<mooff>now i wonder if Urk's issue was that the upgrade switched to Wayland
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14:55<Sqrt{not}>jkc, this is for grub to boot what? the .iso should boot as-is, no?
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14:56<xiki>I'm running Debian bullseye on raspberry pi 4 and I'm trying to open port ttyAMA0. I tried installying raspi-config manually and configure serial port, I also tried the following in /boot/config.txt, but no light so far! .. enable_uart=1 dtoverlay=disable-bt. Someone can point me in the right direction?
14:58<another>Sqrt{not}: for grub to load stage 2
14:59<zumbi>xiki: not sure - but have you checked https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi4 ?
15:00<zumbi>xiki: that page mentions about /dev/ttyUSB0 instead
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15:01<zumbi>xiki: and On a Raspberry Pi 4B 4G with bullseye/linux 5.10.13-1, the serial stopped working after the vc4 module was loaded. As a workaround, add module_blacklist=vc4 to the command line to make it work
15:01<Sqrt{not}>another, I'm still talking about DoctorD90's setup with a debian-live .iso copied to an ssd. what stage 2 are you talking about?
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15:03<xiki>interesting, I will check it out. Thanks zumbi
15:04<another>Sqrt{not}: I haven't read the entire backlog. GRUB has several stages. It has to store stage 2 somewhere
15:05<Sqrt{not}>another, thanks, but that's not what I think we are talking about. At this point, their machine only has 2 copies of a debian-live .iso image, which should each be totally self-contained for booting.
15:05<another>on DOS partition tables this is stored in the nomans' land between MBR and first partition. GPT explicitly forbids this. That's why there is a new partition type for such data
15:06<Sqrt{not}>another, not relevant here.
15:06<another>Ay. Carry on then :)
15:07<xiki>i just installed raspbian lite and it's available straight away :,(
15:09<xiki>did you mean to add it to /boot/cmdline.txt?
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15:18<scorpion2185[m]>!win
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15:18<scorpion2185[m]>am I invisible?
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15:20<xiki>:O
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15:20<xiki>Hello from Malta ! :D
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15:22<scorpion2185[m]>!why
15:22<dpkg>Because!
15:23<scorpion2185[m]>Hi, why can't I unlock swap with key at boot?
15:23<DoctorD90>thanks jkc, another, Sqrt{not}, I did a msdos and an efi partition :) grub loads fine, the problem is that Im doing some sort of mistake. Sqrt{not} I created the required partition on the nvme to load the grub on it. The grub load the Iso as loopback....but I probably did something wrong in the grub config
15:24<DoctorD90>and Sqrt{not} yes, if I cp or dd the image on the nvme0n1 it "correctly" show 2 partitions (with lsblk) and it can be loaded normally as iso live :) but no space availbe for sure for another parition
15:24<MasterRoot24>Hello all. I am trying to install Bullseye on a PC. I'm trying to install on LVM; with one 30GB LV for / and a 50GB LV for /home. When run the graphical installer, I select manual partitioning and select the LVs to be used. Straightaway after starting the installation, I get a message saying "Failed to unpack image "/run/live/medium/live/filesystem.squashfs" rsync failed with error code 11." Anyone got any ideas on what the i
15:26<sarnold>scorpion2185[m]: does your system perhaps generate a random key for swap every boot?
15:27<scorpion2185[m]>I didn't set that, every time I have to enter passwd for / and swap, is the same for all 3 ( the other is /root, not required )
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15:28<another>do you need persistent swap?
15:28<DoctorD90>another practically yes :P
15:28<scorpion2185[m]>I don't know what is the difference
15:29<scorpion2185[m]>and if I have it now
15:29<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, using fdisk, you should be able to add another partition to the unallocated part of the SSD, after sector # 6187104
15:29<DoctorD90>Sqrt{not}, the issue was that the GPT wasnt usable
15:29<DoctorD90>only FAT
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15:29<Sqrt{not}>so, use that ? why not ?
15:30<another>scorpion2185[m]: do you hibernate?
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15:30<DoctorD90>meh....I would like to solve the issue :P
15:30<scorpion2185[m]>yes
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15:30<another>have you considered using a keyfile?
15:31<Sqrt{not}>There is more than 470GiB free on that thing, what do you plan to put there that must be GPT?
15:31<scorpion2185[m]>I said `why can't I unlock swap with key at boot?`
15:32<scorpion2185[m]>`cryptsetup --test-passphrase --key-file /root/key luksOpen /dev/sda7` doesn't have errors
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15:33<DoctorD90>Sqrt{not}, i dont know at all! XD backups or similar, but as I said, i dont like the taste of half solve the issue :P
15:33<jw>where is update-grub
15:33<jw>on buullshiteye
15:33<sney>in /usr/sbin
15:33<sney>!buster su
15:33<dpkg>Starting with buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details.
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15:35<jw>!bullseye update-grub
15:35<sney>!sbin
15:35<dpkg>Some binaries, particularly system utilities are installed to /sbin or /usr/sbin rather than /bin or /usr/bin. The former directories are not in a standard user's PATH. Try calling them directly, e.g. /sbin/ifconfig, or running them as root. See also <buster su>.
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15:36<scorpion2185[m]>I added a key in /etc/crypttab is that all?
15:36<another>scorpion2185[m]: ah. is /root a separate device?
15:36<scorpion2185[m]>in a separate partition
15:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 1036] by debhelper
15:38<jw>now I get "/sbin/update-grub: 3: exec: grub-mkconfig: not found"
15:38<sney>are you root?
15:38<jw>yes
15:39<sney>grub-mkconfig is also in /usr/sbin. you need to be root with the right environment, so that these utilities are in your PATH.
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15:39<sney>if you became root with "su" or (ugh) "sudo su", exit that shell, then use "su -" or "sudo -i"
15:39<scorpion2185[m]>another: is that a problem? After I unlock / /root is unlocked automatically but swap not
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15:42<jw>now it's working.... thank you
15:42<sney>np
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15:42<another>scorpion2185[m]: how is /root unlocked?
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15:50<Toinou>I have a question on how the librpm8 package is built. It seems the same source is used for stable and unstable but the librpm8 package is only built in unstable. How is this handled by the source package? How could I built librpm8 on a stable system?
15:50<sney>,v librpm8
15:50<judd>Package: librpm8 on amd64 -- buster: 4.14.2.1+dfsg1-1; sid: 4.14.2.1+dfsg1-1.1+b3
15:50<sney>that's not a good sign, if it's only in sid and oldstable
15:51<scorpion2185[m]>another: I don't know it is together with / i suppose
15:51<scorpion2185[m]>is there a log? i tried to find somewthing
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15:52<sney>oh I see, it's been replaced with librpm9
15:53<Toinou>yes, but it is exactly the same source that in one case generate both librpm8 and librpm9 (sid) and in the other case only librpm9 (stable)
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15:53<Toinou>I am wondering how I could force librpm8 to be build on a stable system.
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15:55<sney>debian/control for 4.14.2.1+dfsg1-1.1 defines librpm8, so probably download that version of the debian source package and pass it to dpkg-buildpackage.
15:55<sney>if the build-deps are all present, it will probably just work.
15:56<Toinou>I have tried for 4.16.1.2+dfsg1-3 but only librpm9 was built.
15:56<sney>https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/r/rpm/rpm_4.14.2.1+dfsg1-1.1.dsc , install devscripts and build-essential and see 'man dget'
15:56<sney>obviously rpm 4.14 and 4.16 are different versions of the software.
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15:57<Toinou>I understand but https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/r/rpm/rpm_4.16.1.2+dfsg1-3.dsc is the same for stable and sid
15:57<Toinou>In sid you get librpm8 while in stable you do not.
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15:58<ozzloy>i am trying to figure out how debian specifies which network gets started at boot. i know vaguely the answer is "systemd" but i'm trying to find a systemd file that has "wlp0s20f3" for example, and i can't find it
15:58<sney>the package in sid is from the 4.14 source package, see https://packages.debian.org/sid/librpm8
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15:59<Toinou>You are right. I was confused by this page: https://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/rpm
15:59<ozzloy>how does systemd know to bring up that wifi card during boot? i do not see it listed in any configuration file
16:00<Toinou>Thanks for the answer. I will build the oldstable version.
16:00<sney>Toinou: np.
16:00<sney>ozzloy: debian doesn't use the systemd networking daemons by default. your nic is most likely configured by NetworkManager or connman if you have a gui, or by ifupdown if you don't.
16:00<ozzloy>ah
16:01<sney>if this nic was used during your install, it's probably configured in /etc/network/interfaces which is the file ifupdown uses
16:01<ozzloy>thanks
16:01<sney>np
16:01<scorpion2185[m]>and do I check etc/crypttab log?
16:01<ozzloy>hmm... that file says to source /etc/network/interfaces.d/ which is empty
16:03<tjcarter>normal for that to be empty
16:04<sney>interfaces.d is usually empty except on systems with really involved networking setups, a wifi configuration would just be in the main interfaces file.
16:05<jkc>Or for people who keep each interface in a separate file.
16:05<ozzloy>interfaces is empty other than the line that says source the interfaces.d
16:05<jkc>Doesn't have to be super complicated.
16:05<sney>but if it isn't, then something else is messing with your network. I've seen connman go out of bounds on a few people's systems, is it installed? do you get anything for e.g. 'journalctl -u connman'?
16:05<ozzloy>i'll check
16:07<ozzloy>no entries for connman. oh, this is actually a pop-os system. maybe they changed how networking works from base debian
16:07<sney>sigh.
16:07<sney>!based on debian
16:07<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
16:07<spawacz>i have 2 machines that are connected with cable to a router, now i need to connect them together. Do i need to disable dhcp client on both of them and assign a static ip?
16:07<sney>please go to the correct channel. QED, really.
16:08<sney>spawacz: no, if they're both on the same network then they should be able to communicate already
16:08<ozzloy>yeah, that makes sense
16:08<malakim>sney, i actually have a debian system nd my interfaces file does not mention anything about my wifi link
16:08<sney>malakim: it is not always used.
16:08<malakim>that makes sense
16:08<sney>interfaces will be pre-populated for a network connection that was used by the installer, in most cases
16:09<spawacz>i moved for a couple of days and i cant plug cable to the router, i thought i will make my PI conenct to router over wifi (success) and now i need to connect pc to the pi
16:09<sney>but that's all, everything else you configure yourself
16:09<spawacz>there is no way here to plug cable to the router
16:09<spawacz>and i have no wifi adapter in my pc... :(
16:09<spawacz>but when i plug the cable to pi, i cant ping it, even thought i set it to have static ip of 192.168.0.3
16:09<sney>spawacz: oh, you want to connect them together directly? yes, you'll need to set static ips to do that. you don't need to disable the dhcp client, but you'll need to give them both addresses in the same subnet.
16:10<spawacz>but i have not disabled dhcp on neither of machines, is it possible that each try to get a dhcp address from eachother?
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16:10<spawacz>okay im going to try again
16:10<malakim>spawacz, one of them has to have a fixed ip address
16:10<sney>the dhcp client can yell all it wants, but if there's no dhcp server it will do nothing
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16:13<Tj>spawacz: it is very likely both already have a link-local IPv6 address and can communicate using those, without worrying about any manual IPv4 configuration
16:13<Tj>spawacz: "ip -6 addr show" will likely show link-local addresses, of the form fe80::<something> on the interface(s)
16:14<ozzloy>ok, on my debian system, /etc/network/interfaces still does not list wlp1s0 explicitly. it does say "iface lo inet loopback" though
16:15<sney>ozzloy: again, /etc/network/interfaces is only one way the network can be configured. if it's not that, it's something else.
16:15<sney>if there is a desktop on that debian system, it's probably NetworkManager.
16:15<Tj>ozzloy: check which service is managing network. "systemctl status connman systemd-networkd NetworkManager networking"
16:16<ozzloy>thanks! do you know off the top of your head where NetworkManager would keep that configuration? if not, i can google it
16:16<ozzloy>Tj, ok
16:16<ozzloy>it's a desktop. this one's a laptop
16:16<Tj>ozzloy: "nmcli con" will list connections
16:16<sney>nm is best managed with its utilities, either a desktop applet or nmcli
16:17<Tj>ozzloy: there is usually a network-management taskbar icon/applet you can use to configure and check connection info
16:17<malakim>dumb question: how do y copy text from an hexchat window?
16:18<ozzloy>NetworkManager is active, and so is networking
16:18<sney>malakim: highlight it
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16:18<sney>malakim: though this is configurable, see settings->preferences->advanced, "automatically copy selected text"
16:18<ozzloy>btw, i'm just learning about how the system works. i'm not troubleshooting a problem i'm currently having.
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16:20<ozzloy>yes, there is a system tray icon that brings me to settings where i can find networks and connect and stuff. i'm trying to figure out how the system knows about the wireless card, which configuration files are used.
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16:20<ozzloy>based on that systemctl thing, it's either NetworkManager or networking
16:20<malakim>sney, ctrl_V was not working to paste it to a terminal window, so i tried an old qbasic binding, gess what, it works! shift_INS
16:20<Tj>ozzloy: a tool called wpa_supplicant is operating in the background, NetworkManager controls and talks to it
16:21<Tj>ozzloy: wpa_supplicant handles WiFi connections
16:21<sney>malakim: shift+ctrl+v is standard in gui terminals as well
16:21<ozzloy>how does wpa_supplicant know what devices are wifi devices?
16:21<Tj>ozzloy: every 45 seconds NetworkManager asks wpa_supplicant to scan for wifi networks
16:21<malakim>sney, cool
16:22<Tj>ozzloy: because they're wifi devices :) They expose specific functionality
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16:23<spawacz>Tj: I didnt know that, i must try this ipv6. But will I be able to connect to web over the wifi that is conencted to the router on pi?
16:23<spawacz>so i send my data over cable to pi using ipv6 and pi sends it further.
16:23<sney>no, you would need to configure some forwarding for that
16:25<Tj>spawacz: not using link-local addressing no; you'd need to add a global prefix and routing (which can be easier than configuring IPv4 NAT!)
16:25<ozzloy>Tj, thanks!
16:26<ozzloy>does wpa supplicant just ask every file under /dev/ whether it's a wifi card?
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16:27<Tj>ozzloy: no; kernel modules (drivers) declare alias'es, which match on hardware device IDs. Those kernel modules then expose the wireless interface via the kernel's wireless APIs cfg80211
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16:28<ozzloy>and ... the driver registers with the kernel? so wpa can ask the kernel for wifi devices?
16:28<Tj>ozzloy: the driver (kernel module) is part of the kernel
16:29<Tj>ozzloy: the userspace wifi tools like iw, iwlist, iwconfig, wpa_supplicant, hostapd all use the kernel's userspace wireless interface via cfg80211 and netlink sockets
16:30<ozzloy>i see
16:30<spawacz>so my pc is 10.0.0.2, pi is 10.0.0.3 over cable. then pi is conencted to a router at 192.168.1.1 with ip 192.168.1.15. Is that much hustle to make the forwarding from pc to router vis pi now?
16:30<spawacz>via*
16:31<ozzloy>would it be correct to say the kernel maintains a list of wifi devices then? and it knows what devices are wifi devices because the driver called the right kernel calls to put an entry for itself into the some kernel data structure?
16:32<ozzloy>Tj, thanks so much, btw
16:33<Tj>ozzloy: that sounds about correct
16:33<ozzloy>cool cool
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16:33<ozzloy>that's what i meant by "driver registers with the kernel"
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16:34<sney>ozzloy: also, it's good to know that *nix tends to treat things as files, re: your guess about it looking in /dev. it's not the case with the networking stack but it's a good place to start when tinkering/troubleshooting other stuff.
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16:35<Tj>ozzloy: check out " ls -la /sys/class/net/*/phy80211/ " this will show some of the attributes of any wireless interface
16:35<ozzloy>sney, thanks for confirming
16:36<ozzloy>Tj, oh neat
16:36<Tj>ozzloy: the kernel exposes all the info about devices physical and virtual under /sys/ in what is called the 'sysfs' (system file-system)
16:37<sney>spawacz: it's not really trivial, you'd need to set up routes, iptables rules, and probably dns if you want a regular web browsing experience from your pi. using linux as a router is fairly common and there are a lot of howtos, but it's not super fast and may be confusing if you've never done it before.
16:37<Tj>ozzloy: and if you want to know what driver manages a device, you can look at the symbolic link from each ./device/driver e.g. "ls -la /sys/class/net/*/phy80211/device/driver"
16:37<ozzloy>i've heard of "sysfs" before. thanks, now i have a bit more context of what it is
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16:40<ozzloy>what about for broadband? is it still "phy80211"?
16:40<Tj>ozzloy: you can have hours of fun explroing sysfs
16:40<ozzloy>wwan cards
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16:41<Tj>ozzloy: if they're wireless then yes
16:42<Tj>ozzloy: many will present as ethernet ports though if I recall correctly; some are USB and present as CDC-Ethernet (USB Communications Device Class - Ethernet)
16:42<ozzloy>gotcha
16:42<mooff>Tj, fun for all the family!
16:42<Tj>ozzloy: USB 'class' devices are designed to a pre-defined interface so operating systems only need a standard 'class' driver rather than one driver per device
16:43<Tj>ozzloy: USB is overrun with class devices to keep our lives simple, thankfully
16:43<ozzloy>oh that sounds a lot cleaner
16:43<ozzloy>lol
16:43<ozzloy>the great thing about standards is that there are so many of them!
16:43<Tj>unfortunately that doesn't extend to USB wifi 'dongles'
16:44<ozzloy>aw man
16:44<ozzloy>T_T
16:45<Tj>and to make matters worse, many USB wifi drivers are not in the mainline kernel. They get 'thrown over the wall' by the device chipset manufacturer when the chipset is released and then left to rot. Unless some dedicated users/programmers keep them up to date and packaged to work with later kernels they can end up being useless. For those many times now you'll find 'github' repos of
16:45<Tj>various quality trying to maintain support.
16:46<ozzloy>what network is this IRC channel on? i'm connected to a few, and i am not sure how to tell. OFTC?
16:46<Tj>Yes
16:46<ozzloy>kk
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16:46<ozzloy>oh, i see a debian irc server too
16:47<ozzloy>is that one for devs?
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16:50<tjcarter>ozzloy: it's an alias for OFTC
16:50<sney>this is the debian irc server
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16:51<ozzloy>tjcarter, ah
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16:52<sychill>what's a decent & simple calendar app that can produce ICS files? Are we still pretty much stuck with Evolution, or is there something less bloated?
16:52<sychill>i don't like how Evolution installs all kinds of daemons automatically
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16:57<ozzloy>test matt test
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16:58<sney>!test
16:58<dpkg>Test failed.
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16:59<ozzloy>!test
16:59<dpkg>Test failed.
17:00<crazyfrog>need help with postfixadmin :(
17:00<mooff>sychill: Thunderbird supports it, and I'd expect GNOME Calendar too, too
17:00<mooff>** to, too
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17:01<ozzloywebchat>!test
17:01<dpkg>Test failed.
17:02<crazyfrog>!help
17:02<sney>crazyfrog: postfix is a big complicated server, what do you need help with exactly?
17:02<wheatstonebridg>AH! found it
17:02<sney>everything you need is probably in here *somewhere* though, http://www.postfix.org/documentation.html
17:02<sychill>mooff: thanks. I'm using Sway so i guess gnome calendar is off the table, but perhaps Thunderbird is the way to go
17:03<crazyfrog>sney is it complicated, windows is complicated ;)
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17:04<sney>crazyfrog: I used to run a production email server for several years with postfix and dovecot. yes, postfix is powerful, and it's a good MTA, but it's complicated and very specific.
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17:05<crazyfrog>sney my problem is with mysqli::real_connect(): (HY000/2002): No such file or directory this i get from phpmyadmin the servers are on to lxc container
17:05<mooff>setting the two up together with TLS, shared auth took me many hours recently
17:06<mooff>agree it's complicated and specific
17:06<sney>that sounds like a problem with php and mysql, not postfix
17:06<crazyfrog>at the end the problem will be with postfix
17:06<crazyfrog>:)
17:07<sney>well, if you're so sure, then you don't need any help.
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17:07<crazyfrog>i need first help with phpmyadmin
17:07<crazyfrog>in the next 7 days i will ask for help with postfix ;)
17:08<crazyfrog>but not here
17:08<mooff>lol
17:08<sney>make sure your php setup is working. put a phpinfo file in your web root, and get it showing the correct output.
17:08<crazyfrog>ok sney
17:08<sney>then make sure your mariadb server is listening, and make sure phpmyadmin is connecting to the right socket, whether it's a unix sock or tcp on localhost etc
17:09<crazyfrog>is a lan ip
17:09<crazyfrog>i can setup sockets
17:10<mooff>'no such file or directory' sounds like it's trying to connect to a Unix socket
17:10<crazyfrog>but is in it less secure?
17:10<sney>it doesn't matter which one you use, just pick one, and make sure it's configured the same on both the client and server.
17:10<mooff>you said you installed phpmyadmin with apt.. so that's probably the default, to hit the default mariadb socket
17:10<sney>if it's on a local network behind a NAT then it is as secure as anything on your local network.
17:10<mooff>and you said you would look in /etc/phpmyadmin to see if you can change it
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17:12<crazyfrog>i created at a remote server same lxc container sql, web, postfix
17:13<mooff>did you consider using a mail-in-a-box solution? one of those Dockerized ones?
17:13<crazyfrog>now debian
17:13<sney>I've heard good things about iredmail, it's postfix and dovecot in a preconfigured bundle
17:13<crazyfrog>no
17:14<mooff>it really did take me many hours to get it all working. could be avoidable...
17:14<sney>hosting your own mail is really not sustainable with <20 users
17:14<crazyfrog>but i am thinking about windows
17:14<sney>spam mitigation alone is a few hours of work every week
17:15<mooff>sney, have you seen maddy?
17:16<mooff>https://maddy.email
17:16<sney>I thought you were asking about the nic cage movie, but that's mandy. no that one is new to me, but I also don't have that job anymore
17:16<sney>google handles my email these days
17:17<tepozoa>sychill: calcurse can export / import ical files, it's about as lightweight as you can get
17:17<crazyfrog>sney google is google
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17:18<mooff>google handled my email until GApps went non-free
17:19<crazyfrog>it's a good thing but i like webmail with about gmail++
17:19<mooff>it shouldn't be so difficult to host as it is :/
17:19<sney>I may move it off their services sometime in the future, but that's where it is now. the point is that self-hosting is an ordeal (probably with maddy, too) and sometimes a hosted service is the way to go
17:19<mooff>it really is.
17:19<crazyfrog>the best what you can do is to host your mail by your self
17:20<sney>only if you have unlimited time and patience
17:20<mooff>but it's an ordeal, crazyfrog
17:20<crazyfrog>and dns :)
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17:20<mooff>yes.. unlimited time, patience.. and dns
17:20<sychill>tepozoa: sounds even better.. thanks!
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17:22<sney>if you run a mailserver properly, you learn a lot about SMTP, and then you begin to understand why it's so much work: it's a 40 year old protocol with generations of compatibility duct tape and "security" amendments
17:22<mooff>sney: did you ever run the Citadel 'groupware' server?
17:23<sney>the only groupware I've ever had to deal with is exchange
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17:23<crazyfrog>what is about horde is it secure?
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17:24<mooff>i found that the configuration was hard to get right for incidental reasons, more than SMTP had to be understood / grokked etc
17:24<sney>horde is just a web client for email
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17:24<crazyfrog>no its haves moduul system
17:25<sney>yea, postfix's config syntax is like no oth4er
17:25<mooff>crazyfrog, check out Rainloop
17:25<mooff>it's in Debian.. like a modern Roundcube
17:25<mooff>"smtp" vs "smtpd"
17:25<mooff>one meaning the other
17:25<mooff>but sometimes not!
17:27<crazyfrog>mooff, thx
17:27<crazyfrog>sney thx
17:27<tepozoa>sychill: in theory it can now do caldav too, but I haven't set that up. I do most of my personal calendar on the mobile with DavX5 pulling the data (works great)
17:28<crazyfrog>tepozoa, sychill i love you /j #tuxmail
17:28<crazyfrog>and help me also ;)
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17:29<crazyfrog>the boot should replay the channel title from #tuxmail
17:29<crazyfrog>boot=bot
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17:30<crazyfrog>sry
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17:31<mooff>ooh, calcurse has a nice ui
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17:35<hendursaga>mooff: I used to use calcurse, I agree on that
17:35<hendursaga>I use Org Mode for scheduling stuff these days though
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17:47<sychill>hendursaga: i use org mode too, but i don't think org mode can export ICS files, can it?
17:48<sychill>i push org mode files to orgSync (android app), but I still need to populate the phone's calendar app
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17:50<DoctorD90>jkc, Sqrt{not} well, ok the problem is that it doesnt load the ISO from the partition....grub2 says "i cant find the partition" ahahahah....blkid gives me the partuuid and grub2 cant find it out ahahah amazing xD
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17:51<hendursaga>sychill: I'm not sure, I just import 'em
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18:02<sychill>how do I type an apostrophe? I want just one of these => ” (which i typed using compose " >)
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18:03<sarnold>can you type compose ' > ?
18:03<sychill>ah, yeah.. guess that was obvious, just mising from my cheat sheet
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18:06<sarnold>yay :D I've never actually figured out how to set up a compose key. I don't have any keys that I'd like to donate to the cause, hehe
18:07<mooff>right alt is too useful as an extra super key, lol
18:08<jmcnaught>I use capslock for compose.
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18:08<sychill>the ‹pause› key is pretty useless, no? That's what I use. Many ppl use the capslock as well.
18:08<mooff>capslock for compose.. we found the non-vimmer!
18:08<sarnold>:D
18:10<jmcnaught>:q
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18:12<jmcnaught>I'm just not a fan of remapping keys because for me the penalty is too high when I use someone else's keyboard.
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18:12<sarnold>yeah, that was my reason for years, but at by now I've not used anyeone else's keyboard is a very long time
18:12<sarnold>me fail english? that's unpossible
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18:25<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, why do you want to use grub? do you plan to have other OS images actually installed on the SSD?
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18:28<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, it seems to me that the easy & sane choices are (1) actually install that debian image in some partition(s) of your new disk(s), and dual-boot or multi-boot it with whatever else you want to run.
18:28<Sqrt{not}>or (2) just boot the live image from a USB stick, like you are doing now, when you need to run it.
18:29<sarnold>I don't what problem is being solved, but don't overlook just running things in a VM when necessary, too
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18:39<ppc64>My fresh install of Debian sid from a nightly netinst iso image seems to be stuck in DHCP network config mode and it ignores the installation network config and seems to entirely ignore /etc/network/interfaces so is there a way to fix this ?
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18:40<jw_>Is it possible to boot into previously installed buster installtion from bullseye that I am on now?
18:41<mooff>that sounds like fun jw_ - it should be possible
18:41<sney>not if buster was upgraded to bullseye
18:41<jw_>I cannot boot into buster from grub menu....
18:41<sarnold>jw_: maybe grub-reboot(8) ?
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18:41<jw_>I verifyed that all the files are there
18:41<mooff>ah, i thought they meant the buster installation remains unchanged
18:42<ppc64>so does anyone know how to get DHCP to stop doing the nasty thing it does at boot time ? I just want a specific ip address and not a dynamic ip
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18:43<sney>ppc64: find out what's calling dhclient, and disable it. if you installed a gui, this may be connman or networkmanager.
18:43<ppc64>OKay, thank you. I did install LXDE
18:43<sney>see what you get from "systemctl status connman systemd-networkd NetworkManager networking"
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18:44<ppc64>Unit NetworkManager.service could not be found. and Unit networking.service could not be found. however connman.service - Connection service is running
18:44<sarnold>sney: oh that's handy
18:44<sney>ppc64: connman it is, disable it and you should be good
18:45<sney>sarnold: got it from Tj earlier today
18:45<sarnold>sney: hehe
18:45<ppc64>wild ... makes me wonder why the installation config was destroyed/ignored by connman .. that has to be a bug.
18:45<sney>connman is disrespectful of other services and assumes you will use it
18:46<mooff>there are no bugs in bullseye, it is perfect, okay
18:46<sney>I filed a bug about this a few weeks ago when it stopped an apt upgrade
18:46<ppc64>miserable bugger ... still feels like a bug . took my hours last night trying to figure out what was happening
18:47<sney>it's absolutely a bug if you configured the interface elsewhere and connman overrode it
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18:47<sney>maybe reply to #990501 and retitle it to be more general, haha
18:47<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/990501 in connman (open): «connman: Connman disrupted network during upgrade on system where it does not manage network»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-06-30; last modified: 2021-06-30.
18:48<mooff>severity++
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18:50<ppc64>yes, I did the install from Debian sid "Unofficial amd64 NETINST with firmware 20210902-02:51" with expert mode and set the ip address specific. Then selected LXDE as the desktop GUI and upon boot I was surprised by DHCP doing what it does
18:50-!-jw_ [~jw@ool-18ba995a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:51<sney>there have also been a few people getting zeroconf addresses from connman, breaking routing, on networks without dhcp
18:52<ppc64>I am lucky that I have a ipv4 /26 subnet for testing and inside that is a very very small /29 subnet for DHCP stuff. Which was the only reason I could ssh into the box after install.
18:52*ppc64 bork bork bork ... # systemctl stop connman
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18:53<ppc64>as a sidenote it is not wise to perform "systemctl stop connman" from a remote ssh session :)
18:53<sarnold>:D
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18:54<mooff>you thought it was gonna solve your networking, but really it's just a connman
18:54<jw_>I installed bullseye on a separate partition. Grub found previous buster and added some entries but I cannot boot any of it including rescue mode. It just shows an underscore after about a minute
18:54<ppc64>I was waiting for that joke
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18:54<mooff>ba-dum pish :D
18:55<ppc64>even more fun is that I have no monitor, keyboard or mouse on the remote machine.
18:56<sarnold>bmc?
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18:56<ppc64>nah .. I just plug in a USB keyboard to the thing and login as root blind. monitors are over rated anyways.
18:56<sarnold>hehehe :)
18:57<ppc64>I did the " systemctl disable connman " and then reboot and I see disk activity lights. So that means something
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18:58<ppc64>this is going well. Now it rebooted and there is no network ip assigned it seems. I guess a monitor will be needed after all
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19:00<ppc64>wow .. no network at all
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19:01<sney>ifup interface?
19:02<ppc64>I just logged in on the graphical LXDE session and a terminal shows me " ip addr show " there is nothing assigned to the enp4s0 interface
19:03<sney>ok, so 'ifup enp4s0'? you had it configured in interfaces, right?
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19:03<ppc64>I may just write a manual old school script and drop it into /etc/init.d and link it into /etc/rc2.d
19:04<ppc64>I have /etc/network/interfaces setup by the installer .. but no ip .. yet
19:04<sney>excessive, but if you're playing with sid then why not
19:04<ppc64>yeah .. I'm not surprised
19:05<ppc64>very likely this is a symptom of the harsh things I tried last night after the install was done
19:05<sarnold>ifupdown isn't great but I'd certainly prefer using it to some /etc/rc* things
19:05<ppc64>namely I nuked out --purge a few things
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19:05<sney>certainly *try* ifupdown before abandoning it for random homebrew bandaids
19:05<sarnold>yes
19:06<mooff>i probably would have `man connman`.. why fight it..
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19:07<sney>apparently you can blacklist interfaces from being handled by connman by setting NetworkInterfaceBlacklist in the main.conf config file
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19:07<ppc64>I agree that some bandaid snafu will not be pretty but "man connman" may require that I open beer or whiskey or both
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19:10<mooff>hehe
19:10<tjcarter>mooff: "why fight it" pretty much led me to just use network-manager
19:10<mooff>tjcarter, at least nmcli has pretty colors
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19:10<tjcarter>I don't actually like nmcli much
19:11<tjcarter>it feels pretty clunky, but I'm rarely using it
19:11<sarnold>ip -c a has pretty colours too :)
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19:11<sarnold>I find nmcli baffling but I'm glad it's there
19:11<mooff>lol thanks sarnold
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19:12<tjcarter>nmcli will always feel somewhat foreign if you're used to traditional tools.
19:13<mooff>i thought it was discoverable enough with e.g. `nmcli connection help`
19:13<mooff>what do you guys think of bluetoothctl?
19:13<sney>I don't have any linux systems with bluetooth
19:13<mooff>IF you can excuse that it manages bluetooth, and that if you're using it, you're probably having a Bad Time
19:13<sney>the nic in this machine allegedly has support but I've never managed to turn it on even to test
19:14<mooff>i actually liked the UI, lol
19:14<mooff>maybe you could do that with bluetoothctl ;-)
19:14<sney>the driver can't even see the chip
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19:21<ppc64>THANK you all for the "connman" information as that is clearly the culprit and I will read connman.conf(5) carefully
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19:21<SpeakerToMeat>Hello all.
19:22<SpeakerToMeat>Question, if I decide to give in to peer pressure, and change python-is-python2 to python-is-python3, how can I do this without all the packages that rely on python not freaking out while aptitude learns that python-is-python3 provides python as well afetr install?
19:23<sney>SpeakerToMeat: no debian tools in bullseye depend on unversioned python, so the only "freaking out" would be with legacy stuff not from debian
19:23<sney>so it should just go
19:24<mooff>ppc64: gl with the conn, man
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19:26<ppc64>mooff: I plan to just pay the price under the table as we always do with a con man
19:26<mooff>sometimes it's the most pragmatic way
19:27-!-shibboleth [~shibbolet@000288d9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: shibboleth]
19:27<sarnold>SpeakerToMeat: worst case, you go around and change some #!/usr/bin/python lines to read #!/usr/bin/python2 when you find they are broken
19:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 1011] by debhelper
19:28<SpeakerToMeat>... so there is no way to do it with aptitude/apt?
19:28<sney>no, apt does not have a mechanism to edit your scripts
19:29<sney>packages in bullseye were patched to fix this before the release. it was one of the major transitions that happened
19:29<mooff>SpeakerToMeat: any stuff you got from Debian will continue working
19:29<sney>python-is-python{ver} is a band-aid for the rest
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19:30<SpeakerToMeat>What do you mean edit scripts?
19:30<SpeakerToMeat>python-is-python2 and python-is-python3 both provide python.
19:31<sney>each package only contains a symlink.
19:31<SpeakerToMeat>But if I try to install python-is-python3 aptitude doesn't see that it provides python, it only sees that the python-is-python2 provided python is going away, so packages depending on python will "break"
19:31<SpeakerToMeat>sney, and "provides: python"
19:32<sney>then aptitude is being silly, try it with apt
19:32<SpeakerToMeat>Ok let me see if a simple install will work with apt
19:33<sarnold>oh, is this all about trying to find the commandline apt install python-is-python2- python-is-python3 ?
19:35<SpeakerToMeat>Nope, apt seems to do the same....
19:35<sney>what do you have installed that still depends on unversioned python?
19:37<mooff>can you 'apt install -s python-is-python3' -> paste.debian.net ?
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20:06<user194>how do I start another X server on a different tty? startx exits immediately?
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20:06<sney>you have to set a different display, like startx -- :1 or so
20:07<sney>I'm not sure if modern X really supports this though
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20:07<user194>yeah i'm having a feeling that even if X might support this I might hit other problems like session management/dbus
20:08<mooff>startx works without arguments here.. what errors do you see?
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20:12<sarnold>I've heard toolkits / desktop environments aren't happy with multiple X servers from a single user at once, but not tried myself in absolute ages
20:13<user3125>i wonder if openbox might give me more joy
20:13<sney>it'd have to be something old school for best results, yeah
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20:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 1002] by debhelper
20:18<sychill>tepozoa: calcurse is apparently lossy. I entered events directly into an android calendar app which used the Title, Location, & Description fields and imported into calcurse. Calcurse only grabbed the title and times, and dropped the location and description. I then re-exported those events from calcurse and imported into the android calendar app. There were dupes, but the records that were
20:18<sychill>re-exported by calcurse were missing location and description
20:19<sychill>So I guess this has to be a one-direction workflow. I'll have to do all the data entry in calcurse, and pull into the android without going the other direction
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20:26<wasp>hi
20:26<wasp>Hello
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22:03<christo2015>breathe do someone see this?
22:06<sney>!test
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22:06<dpkg>Test failed.
22:07<alex11>i hope they were wearing a mask
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22:15*ppc64 mutters mask &= 0xc0ffee;
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23:07<lechner>Hi, can anyone successfully change the papersize in their Libreoffice writer to 'Letter'? I'm on bullseye. Thanks!
23:08<sney>I think it was letter by default here, might be locale related
23:08<sney>what happens if you change it under format->page style?
23:09-!-seeS [~quassel@118.211.119.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:12<lechner>sney: thanks! i fiddled with the LO printer settings until I saw "Letter" there, and then I went back to Page Style, where a huge list had opened up. All good now. Thanks!
23:12<sney>np
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23:39-!-Matthias_ is "Matthias1" on #debian
23:41-!-greknod [~grek@0002cc1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:41-!-greknod is "nod" on #debian
23:44-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:44-!-Guest6033 [~r00t@198.92-220-20.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:45-!-greknod [~grek@0002cc1f.user.oftc.net] has quit []
23:46-!-greknod [~grek@0002cc1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:46-!-greknod is "nod" on #debian
23:49-!-hybridwipe [~null@2603-8080-2700-d768-4243-f882-6b63-9b2c.res6.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:53-!-FH_thecat [~FH_thecat@75.11.25.212.ftth.as8758.net] has joined #debian
23:53-!-FH_thecat is "FH_thecat" on #kernelnewbies #virt #debian
23:58-!-hybridwipe [~null@cpe-173-174-99-192.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
23:58-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #llvm #llvmlinux
---Logclosed Fri Sep 03 00:00:21 2021