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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-03

---Logopened Fri Sep 03 00:00:21 2021
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@troude.pet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:02-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:c69d:5c2f:2cbb:1089] has joined #debian
00:02-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
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00:04-!-resmo is "realname" on #debian
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00:05-!-greknod is "nod" on #debian
00:06<urk>Does anyone know if there is a directory tree tool for the LXDE interface? Or something I can download from the repos? XFCE quit working with Kernel 4.19 so I have gravitated to LXDE interface. My display errors are gone, but LXDE is not feature rich, and has a limited set of tools. One thing I miss that was in XFCE was a directory tree. This is highly useful since it allows you to access data if your display manager gets corrupted.
00:06-!-timur_davletshin [~timur_dav@0002b842.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:06-!-timur_davletshin is "Timur Davletshin" on #oftc #debian
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00:09-!-GenTooMan is "realname" on #debian-rust #debian-next #debian-games #debian
00:12<Matthias_>Does anyone know what the minimum kernel version required to run `debootstrap` is? I can tell you that 2.6.32 is too old
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00:19-!-ChubaDuba is "ChubaDuba" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
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00:29-!-anonymous [~anonymous@ool-457df8ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
00:29-!-anonymous is "Anonymous" on #debian
00:29<EmleyMoor>Must get wired network put in to my lounge
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00:34-!-andi- is "andi-" on #debian-next #bitlbee #debian #ceph
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00:41-!-tizef is "realname" on #debian-qemu #debian-offtopic #3hg #nakedeb #debian-next #debian
00:44-!-mangix [~quassel@astound-69-42-4-108.ca.astound.net] has joined #debian
00:44-!-mangix is "Rosen Penev" on #debian #msys2 #llvm @#$nouveau #nouveau
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00:48-!-tp43_ is "ndee" on #debian
00:49<tp43_>I changed video cards and drivers, but now I can't change back.
00:50<tp43_>I uninstalled a bunch of nvidia packages, and then did nvidia-detect, then installed the recommended driver. But still my screen does not fill up the monitor screen size and it is all very low resolution. I can hardly read this text.
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00:52-!-jpw is "..." on #debian-offtopic #debian
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00:57-!-seeS is "Craig" on #debian
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01:00-!-greknod is "nod" on #debian
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01:01-!-toto_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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01:05-!-chuangzhu is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
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01:07-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
01:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 1003] by debhelper
01:10<tjcarter>2.6.32?! 😮
01:10-!-tp43_ [~ndeem@2001:1970:502b:d701:4513:15d5:bbdd:d38c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:10<sney>haha, that's debian squeeze
01:10-!-allorder [~allorder@000197dc.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:11<tjcarter>sounds about right
01:12<tjcarter>wee bit dated
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01:17-!-hbautista_ [~hbautista@187.171.69.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:18<sney>a version of debootstrap from 10 years ago could do it.
01:21-!-coolguy75 [49abcdfa@107.161.19.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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01:21-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
01:30<tjcarter>if you need debootstrap for bullseye on a system with a 10 year old kernel, I really suggest booting the bullseye live image and running debootstrap from there.
01:31*tjcarter again considers writing a guide on installing Debian this way
01:32<tjcarter>it should obviously be entitled How NOT to install Debian
01:32<raven523>will modern glibc even work on a kernel that old?
01:32<tjcarter>I sort of doubt it
01:32*grawity wonders how many cheapo OpenVZ "VPS" hosts still run 2.6.32-patched-to-oblivion
01:33<raven523>I think it requires 3.16 now'
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01:33-!-andi- is "andi-" on #debian-next #bitlbee #debian #ceph
01:35-!-Guest6114 is now known as Daniel
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01:46-!-pdq is "realname" on #debian #linux
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01:55<EmleyMoor>There is a massive overestimate on my electricity bill!
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02:28-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #tor-relays #tor-project #tor-dev #tor-bots #tor #debian #dfri_se
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02:37-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
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02:43-!-sicelo is "sicelo" on #kernelnewbies #debian-next #debian-embedded #debian-debsources #debian-academy #debian
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02:48-!-aev is "Aulis Vainionpää" on #debian-kde #tor-mobile #debian #moocows #oftc #debian-offtopic #tor-project
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03:08<a123>?
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03:09-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #debian #freedombox
03:10<tarzeau>bullseye on rapsberry pi3 shows bad pictre, raspbian had a tool /opt/vc/bin/tvservice which is not existing on debian
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03:16-!-axet is "Your Name" on #debian
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03:22-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #linux-media #gstreamer #vcs-home #debian #cell
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03:31-!-TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian-next #debian.or.at #security #debian
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03:31-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #hyprateam #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y
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03:34<tarzeau>E: Method https has died unexpectedly! signal 25, when aptitude dies, what's wrong?
03:34-!-lightbulbjim [~lightbulb@203-123-115-76.ip4.superloop.com] has joined #debian
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04:11-!-eroux is "Eugéne Roux" on #almalinux #oftc #llvm #xfs #lvm #LUGs #linux-storage #virt #Corsair #alpine-linux #ceph
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04:34<DoctorD90>Sqrt{not}, thanks! Once I dd/cp the iso on the disk, everything is wipe from my knowledge cause the ISO has its own fat/gpt, so the drawback of this setup is when I have to update the ISO version I had to empty the data partition (the one Im trying to create). Instead to install then Im trying to simply load the ISO. It would be as a multiboot penstick or as install in multiboot. In this way I can update the ISO faster without wipe the data
04:34<DoctorD90>partition. The issue is that I cant now load the iso ahahah...probably some issue in the grub.cfg I did. GRUB loads, but the loading of iso doesnt happend :P
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04:39-!-the4oo4_ is "the4oo4" on #debian
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04:42-!-jas4711 is "Simon Josefsson" on #debian #salsaci #dfri_se
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04:43-!-bolt is "-" on #virt #debian-next #debian #sd #oftc
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04:50<uos_zhangh>hi,everybody, I want to intercept all mouse click events of other programs in my program, but I find that my own program cannot click on the control. Does anyone know this problem?
04:51<uos_zhangh>I use XGrabButton to intercept mouse events,thank you.
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07:37<nickel>there is an update for libssh-gcryp-4 package. when i use "apt list --upgradable" it tells me "there is one more version. to see use "-a" key. here how it looks like: https://paste.debian.net/1210220/ what should i do?
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07:42<nickel>this one is "apt list --upgradable -a" output https://paste.debian.net/1210221/
07:43<tjcarter>nickel: look at where they are.
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07:44<tjcarter>One is in stable, the other, with a patch, is in security
07:44<nickel>tjcarter: can i just apt upgrade? would it break my system?
07:44<tjcarter>yes
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07:45<nickel>tjcarter: would it break?
07:45<tjcarter>look at the versions … 0.9.5-1 and 0.9.5-1+deb11u1
07:46<nickel>tjcarter: can i just use "apt upgrade"? is it safe?
07:46<tjcarter>-1 is the Debian part of the version, -1+deb11u1 means it's that version with something added for deb11 (bullseye), update 1.
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07:46<tjcarter>In this case, a security patch
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07:47<nickel>tjcarter: ok, but, can i just "apt upgrade" and would it be fine?
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07:47<tjcarter>yes
07:47<nickel>tjcarter: thanks
07:47<tjcarter>Unless you have changed something to make security patches not be installed automatically
07:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 1023] by debhelper
07:48<nickel>tjcarter: ok, i upgraded
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07:48<tjcarter>Specifically, 0.9.6 had this in its changelog for unstable: * New upstream version 0.9.6: - Fix possible heap-buffer overflow when rekeying with different key exchange mechanism (Closes: #993046, CVE-2021-3634) Refresh 2004-install-static-lib.patch for new upstream version
07:48<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/993046 in src:libssh (closed, security, upstream): «libssh: CVE-2021-3634»; severity: important; opened: 2021-08-26; last modified: 2021-09-02.
07:49<tjcarter>whoops, that second part I didn't mean to include
07:49<tjcarter>Refreshing that patch was probably not done in 0.9.5-1+deb11u1 I'm sure
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07:50<tjcarter>(policy for stable security updates is to change as little as possible but fix the vulnerabilities)
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08:08<BCMM>hi. i've found the cause of bug #927786, which has been open since 2019, and i've got two different fixes in mind. I was hoping that somebody might be able to give some feedback on which fix is more correct:
08:08<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/927786 in wit (open): «wit: wfuse is not included anymore»; severity: important; opened: 2019-04-23; last modified: 2019-04-23.
08:08<BCMM>The upstream source checks for the ability to build against libfuse by searching hard-coded locations for fuse.h. The current Debian package instead uses the compiler to check for headers, in order to support multiarch. `echo '#include <fuse.h>' | "$CC" -E -`
08:08<BCMM>However, the compiler-based check is failing, not because fuse is not available, but because of a missing cflag.
08:08<BCMM>My options are a) simply delete the check, because the Debian package build-depends on libfuse-dev, the check should never fail, and if it does the build itself should probably fail, instead of building without fuse support.
08:08<BCMM>or b) make the check actually work properly, using pkg-config.
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08:09<tizef>hi ! is udisks2 usefull, essential on debian?
08:10<BCMM>(either would be a trivial effort from me at this point; i'm just wondering which is more in line with debian's standards)
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08:27<FLD>i absolutely despise udisks2 for constantly trying to query offline devices and writing errors to syslog about it
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08:32<tizef>FLD, got it, thank you !
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09:05<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, I don't know of a method to boot an .iso live image from grub. However, if you write the .iso to the start of a medium (e.g. USB stick), then use fdisk to make a data partition in the empty space after the .iso, ...
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09:07<Sqrt{not}>Then write down the starting location of that data partition. Later, you can write a new .iso to the start of the disk, and the just recreate the partition entry for that data partition again with fdisk, and the data is still there, untouched.
09:07<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: There's a package in Debian that includes the magic
09:08<tjcarter>,v grml-rescueboot
09:08<judd>Package: grml-rescueboot on amd64 -- stretch: 0.4.7; buster: 0.5.0; bookworm: 0.5.1; bullseye: 0.5.1; sid: 0.5.1
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09:10<tjcarter>There's nothing magic about the package, it just includes the hooks to generate the grub.cfg snippets necessary
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09:16<tepozoa>sychill: ahhh sorry to hear, it looked so promising. :-/ I personally use CalDAV as a pivot point instead of a direct copy from say laptop to mobile
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09:21<crawler>,v net-tools
09:21<judd>Package: net-tools on amd64 -- stretch: 1.60+git20161116.90da8a0-1; buster: 1.60+git20180626.aebd88e-1; bookworm: 1.60+git20181103.0eebece-1; bullseye: 1.60+git20181103.0eebece-1; sid: 1.60+git20181103.0eebece-1
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09:24<Sqrt{not}>tjcarter, interesting, thanks!
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09:29<Sqrt{not}>DoctorD90, (obviously, leave some extra space between the end of the .iso, and the start of your new partition, in case the next .iso is bigger)
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09:41<wwallace>Hello I have pssh installed but when i do pssh blah blah nothing shows which pssh does not show anything either,
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09:41<wwallace>pssh is already the newest version (2.3.1-1).
09:41<wwallace>how to run it?
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09:52<bleb>was just reading this https://lwn.net/Articles/557820/
09:52<bleb>does apt still depend on berkeley db?
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10:02<Sqrt{not}>tjcarter, will grml-rescueboot work with arbitrary boot images, or only with their own?
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10:05<bhoernchen>hallo
10:05<ahoernchen>huhu^^
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10:07<BCMM>bleb: apt build-depends on libdb-dev
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10:09<BCMM>just based on dependencies, though, it looks like `apt-utils` is the only binary package with a runtime dependency on libdb?
10:10<BCMM>(in apt, not in general)
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10:15<ahoernchen>danke für den spaß
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10:17<somiaj>bleb: I don't see any bug reports about the change in license, but I also see that 5.3 is only recentally being added, and not version 6. You may have to check out the mailing lists for dicsussion on what debian may do about this.
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10:18<somiaj>bleb: It could be they just stick with the 5.3 version, or as with various stuff orcal has aquired, the community will make a fork with the old license.
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10:18<BCMM>somiaj: what constitutes "only recently"?
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10:19<BCMM>seems like it's been 5.3.1 since at least stretch
10:21<somiaj>https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/db-defaults
10:22<somiaj>BCMM: ahh yea, I missed the date, I just noticed that was the last one, actually I mised something
10:22<somiaj>https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/db5.3-rm.html -- looks like debian maybe just removing it
10:23<crawler>,v certbot
10:23<judd>Package: certbot on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 0.28.0-1~bpo9+1; stretch: 0.28.0-1~deb9u2; stretch-updates: 0.28.0-1~deb9u2; buster: 0.31.0-1+deb10u1; bullseye: 1.12.0-2; bookworm: 1.18.0-1; sid: 1.18.0-1
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10:26<BCMM>oh nice catch. the linked bug report seems like a somewhat canonical reference for the current state of play #987013
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10:26<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/987013 in release.debian.org (open): «Release goal proposal: Remove Berkeley DB»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2021-04-15; last modified: 2021-08-23.
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10:26<BCMM>bleb: ^
10:27<bleb>ty
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10:32<bleb>so what's the horizon for removing it?
10:33<bleb>i guess the red packages on the transition page each need to have the dependency removed?
10:35*enyc meows
10:35<enyc>I noticed LOADS of bullseye-backports lately
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10:35<enyc>I guess they must have been waiting in some queue as lots of things were not to be included in bullseye freeze
10:35<somiaj>bleb: the bug report has some discussion, looks like the first plan is to make it optional, and then slowly phase it out
10:36<somiaj>enyc: That is about right, often debian gets slushy during a release, but a lot of stuff in the background is still being done, which after the release kinda hits all at once
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10:39<somiaj>bleb: note this is best discussed in #debian-next, as since there is about 2 years until the next release (slightly less for the freeze), there is still a decent amount of time to see what becomes of this, but looking at that transition and bug report is probably best if you want to keep up on what is going on
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11:05<coolguy75>Hi, I'm having a problem with not being able to install any new packages in bullseye recently. I can post more details if someone can help.
11:07<Sqrt{not}>coolguy75, we cannot help without the details.......
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11:07<coolguy75>Anytime I try to install a new package I get the "no installation candidate" error. I've had this install since testing == buster and never had a problem like this. I think this started happening after the bullseye release but only noticed yesterday when I tried to install a new program. My sources.list was using bullseye as a target before the
11:07<coolguy75>release. Here is my sources.list now: https://paste.debian.net/1210079/
11:07<coolguy75>I posted multiple times yesterday and never got a response, so I didn't want to keep flooding the channel
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11:08<Sqrt{not}>coolguy75, that paste is not found
11:08<coolguy75>ah, must have timed out. One moment
11:08<somiaj>also provide the output of 'apt policy'
11:09<coolguy75>https://paste.debian.net/1210267/
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11:09<coolguy75>here is apt policy https://paste.debian.net/1210268/
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11:10<HAL6900>CLEAR
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11:26<Sqrt{not}>coolguy75, looks like priority problems with the official repos
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11:29<Sqrt{not}>coolguy75, do you have some overrides in /etc/apt/preferences or /etc/apt/preferences.d/ ?
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11:34<Sqrt{not}>coolguy75, also look in /etc/sources.list.d/
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11:42<coolguy75>ahh, there is something in /etc/apt/preferences (no recollection of that directory existing)
11:43<coolguy75>a single file called `my_preferences` https://paste.debian.net/1210277/
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11:43<cOOl>ok that brings sense into the problem
11:44<coolguy75>Definitely looks like something that could cause a priority problem since its pinning 'testing', which I don't think I've used since I first installed the OS back when buster was testing
11:44<coolguy75>I think I can just get rid of that file?
11:48<cOOl>yes i thin you can backup the file somewhere and delete it
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11:49<coolguy75>Thanks for the help, all. I figured I just needed a nudge in the right direction to find the problem.
11:50<cOOl>hehe yes exactly, so cp the file somewhere and rm its origin and try an update
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11:54<coolguy75>That did it!
11:54<cOOl>hehe nice
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11:55<cOOl>yeah checked it here on a fresh bullseye install so the /etc/apt/preferences did not exist only an empty preferendes.d
11:55<cOOl>preferences.d sory for mistyping
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12:03<DoctorD90>oh! good to know Sqrt{not} ! wiping the fat/gpt I was afraid that I could encounter issues with data. But currently I dont think I will go again to flash the iso directly to the nvme cause it still continue in any way to says "no space left" so, Im trying with the other way
12:03<DoctorD90>tjcarter, what about the magic of grml-rescueboot? may you point me to something about it? it seems interesting
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12:08<somiaj>DoctorD90: are you trying to boot the installer from an nvme drive?
12:09<DoctorD90>somiaj, the live ISO, yes, and it works as usual as if it would be a normal usb stick/external driver. The issue is that I have issue to create an additional partition
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12:11<wwallace>!paste
12:11<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
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12:15<somiaj>DoctorD90: And you aren't just installing on this internal drive because? Anyways, I'm unsure why the nvme drive would be different than a usb in this regard, but the hybrid .iso might be too hybrid and you may want to look into other methods of booting a live image from an nvme. But what is your use case first?
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12:19<DoctorD90>somiaj, without discussing too much (it is a repetition for me nowadays :D) i need a fresh version of system at each boot, customized just by a couple of packages, differents across reboots. So instead to using an external usb (that is slow in loading, keep 1 usb occupied, can be breaked, etc) i just dd the ISO to internal drive, and create a data partition on remaining space. Did in paste on hdd and ssd without issue
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12:20<DoctorD90>now on that nvme (my first one) and with debian 11, it says that the iso take all the 512gb of space. Different programs handle the fat/gpt differently giving me different outputs/warning, showing/hiding partitions. But it boots perfectly as it should do.
12:21<somiaj>DoctorD90: you may want to look into 'debian live image persistance' in google, there is some nice guides
12:22<somiaj>DoctorD90: Here they have some various solutions, one thight might work better for you is the syslinux solution where you use that to boot the live image, and just extract it to a partition, then can use the second partition for the peristant partition.
12:22<somiaj>Unsure if this works better for you or not, also what is the /dev/ you are trying to cp/dd to for the nvme?
12:22<DoctorD90>practically somiaj it is no that half way :) I dont need memory across reboot, just a persistence partition for data mainly. So Now Im trying with the slution to use a simple grub partition that load the ISO, but it wont load the ISO now ahahah
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12:23<somiaj>well there are various levels of persistance you can use with the live imgaes, the syslinux/extra can still be used for a memorless state, and only a persistant data partiition.
12:23<DoctorD90>somiaj, I tried also nvme-cli but it is fixed to only 1 "device", so I can only use nvme0n1, and create partitions on it
12:24<somiaj>But yea trying to load the .iso via grub can be tricky with the debian .iso images due to their hybrid nature (both legacy/uefi and both cdrom/usb boot), hence why thinking using some other method like syslinux could avoid those issues
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12:25<DoctorD90>exactly....but currently with the setup of GRUB I should have the rigth trade-off of effort to update the iso and data partition...but it wont boot ahahah....I will give at this a point a loook on guide about persistence version (I honestly didnt watch them)
12:25<DoctorD90>with debian 9 if I remember corretly, I succeded. I loaded different ISO from an SD at boot if it was present
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12:26<DoctorD90>but currently the issue Im afraid is in the setup of disk...cause blkid gives me certain hashes, but grub tells me he is not able to find them ahahah
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12:43<theooooo>Hey guys, quick question... repeat keys seems to be disabled for some reason on my Debian 11 install
12:44<Konomi>the instructions for installing packages state you can use `aptitude install <package>/buster-backports` but when I use that it results in failed dependancies, however `aptitude -t bullseye-backports install libreoffice` works just fine, maybe someone should correct the documentation? Output from both commands: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/fa699b14/
12:44<theooooo>How to re-enable them>
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12:45<sney>Konomi: good catch, can you create an issue about it at https://salsa.debian.org/backports-team/backports-website ?
12:45<Konomi>sney: happy to I had no idea where to report this
12:46<sney>(or a merge with the fix - this is the recommended way to update that site per its own index page)
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12:46<Konomi>> Signing in using your GitLab.com account without a pre-existing GitLab account is not allowed. Create a GitLab account first, and then connect it to your GitLab.com account.
12:47<theooooo>Since Debian 11 does not use X, but Wayland I am guessing most of the help I can find online will not work for restoring repeat keys
12:47<Konomi>is that an attempt at english to say that salsa.debian.org requires a local account?
12:47<sney>Konomi: yeah, salsa is a separate instance hosted by debian. signup is pretty smooth but if you have any issues you can ask in #salsa
12:48<Konomi>maybe they should remove the sign in with gitlab.com part if that's the case...
12:49<sney>theooooo: whatever documentation gnome has for that feature should work, or if you find something xorg-specific you can log out and select gnome on X
12:49<theooooo>So it's a gnome issue you think?
12:49<theooooo>Why would they just stop working? Could it also be a Flathub issue?
12:50<sney>in gnome on wayland, gnome is driving wayland directly and would be controlling libinput directly, etc
12:50<theooooo>Okay
12:50<theooooo>I will try to reset my shortcuts, maybe that will do it?
12:50<sney>sure, try undoing any changes you made recently
12:51<theooooo>Dang that was it!
12:51<theooooo>RIP XKill shortcut
12:51<theooooo>I wonder what happened
12:51<theooooo>Thank you very much @sney !!
12:51<Konomi>sney: apparently I have to wait for an administrator to approve my registration?
12:51<sney>np
12:52<sney>Konomi: as I said, signup is pretty smooth but if you have any issues you can ask in #salsa
12:52<Konomi>I'm not sure I'd call this a "smooth" experience
12:52<sney>they have a couple of email providers on a greylist
12:52<sney>if you have any complaints, you can also take those to #salsa, there's nothing #debian can offer you about it
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12:53<Konomi>like gmail apparently the biggest email provider on the planet last I checked?
12:54<sney>yes, google is on that list. my email is on google workspace, and they approved my account manually from #salsa in less time than it took you to do all of this whining ;)
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12:54<hendursaga>How do I tell whether my machine is sleeping, hibernating, suspended, or in hybrid sleep?
12:55<hendursaga>It's not a laptop, but after some minutes it decides to do one of the above and I cannot get out of it
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12:55<hendursaga>I navigated to Power Settings earlier and I *thought* I disabled all that funny stuff, but it appears not.
12:56<Konomi>sney: "smooth"
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12:56<Konomi>hendursaga: guessing you eventually have to force a reboot to get out of it?
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12:57<hendursaga>Konomi: I hold the power button for 5 seconds
12:57<hendursaga>When I press the power button, the screen never turns on
12:57<Konomi>yeah so when you reboot do `sudo journalctl --boot=-1` and go to the end of the log and look for what went wrong
12:57<Konomi>or consider disabling sleep suspend hybrid sleep blah blah blah entirely
12:58<Konomi>sleep on linux has always been a garbage pile of issues, I generally tell people to turn it off
12:59<hendursaga>Konomi: so use the modern alt approach then? https://wiki.debian.org/Suspend#Disable_suspend_and_hibernation
13:00<Konomi>yeah that's a good method to do
13:00<cOOl>Yes Konami absolutely, here i always turn that stuff all off.. im always on desktop ..
13:00<theooooo>Honestly tho
13:00<theooooo>If you disable bluetooth and TPM
13:00<theooooo>It's pretty smooth
13:00<Konomi>"a modern alternative approuch" that's a hell of a title
13:00<theooooo>If you don't use those features
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13:01<theooooo>you can remove the entire bluetooth stack and disable it in BIOS along with TPM
13:01<Konomi>theooooo: mostly encountered the gfx just failing to come back
13:01<Konomi>or the wifi giving out
13:01<Konomi>or take your pick of other problems
13:01<theooooo>wifi never experienced, but yeah with graphics cards it can be tricky
13:01<theooooo>desktops dont need sleep, but its nice to have
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13:02<Konomi>and that's why sleep never improves because most linux peeps hack on a desktop and laptop users get to take a walk
13:03<Konomi>also why you see a lot of open source devolpers rocking up with mac books
13:03<cOOl>i use my laptop for tv stream in the background.. hes running for 10 days or so . no need for sleep on my laptops :)
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13:05<shrew>grr. i have a huge file i need to paste into a gui tool that garbles the data when pasting a lot... is there an easy way to throttle the pasting?
13:05<cOOl>im open source dev and web dev.. my maschines are running while i use them or often while i dont use them.. never turned such stuff on.. im always on my desktop until i put the power button = set to shutdown :O)I
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13:11<hendursaga>Konomi: if /etc/systemd/sleep.conf.d doesn't exist create it?
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13:14<tepozoa>shrew: it's not a pretty solution, but you *could* install "trickle", temporarily limit your bandwidth to a crawl to do the paste, then turn it off
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13:18<Konomi>hendursaga: yeah all good
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13:22<shrew>tepozoa: thanks, i'll have a look!
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13:28<Konomi>cOOl: I use open source as much as I can and try to help wherever it's not made excessively hard to do so
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13:31<Booda>Konomi: just dont end up like stallman and u'll be fine
13:32<Konomi>Booda: I've had zero urge to eat from my own feet so I'll be fine
13:32<Booda>if stallman was a distro it would be the most bloated lol
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13:32<Booda>thats what happens when ur a gnu nazi
13:32<cOOl>Konami yes here the same,
13:32<Konomi>Booda: also this is slightly offtopic so I will reframe from continuing the conversation that's what #debian-offtopic is for
13:32<cOOl>Gnu Nazi haha never heard before lol
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13:34<lemonade>GNU is a recursive acronym for GNU ... Unix
13:34<cOOl>GNU
13:34<TomyWork>... = is not
13:34<ppc64>Is there no moderation here and "ban" tools for this trash ?
13:34<scorpion2185[m]>can I unlock swap with key on boot?
13:34<TomyWork>so, Debian 11 is stable. is it production-quality stable, too?
13:34<Konomi>ppc64: sometimes when they bother give it a bit
13:35<cOOl>scorpion2185[m] encrypted swap?
13:35<sney>TomyWork: that's the goal, but many bigger enterprises wait until after the first point release
13:35<bremner>TomyWork: we wouldn't release it if we didn't think so
13:35<scorpion2185[m]>yes , I hibernate
13:35<bremner>TomyWork: but "production-quality" means different things to different people
13:35<Konomi>you can encrypt swap yes but I generally advise people to go with swap on zram now
13:35<sney>ppc64: the dpkg bot has an !ops command that will ping the channel operators for bad offenders, but usually we just ignore them and they go away on their own
13:36<scorpion2185[m]>zram?
13:36<mooff>!zram
13:36<TomyWork>well our customers want to switch from Debian 9 to 10. I'm debating whether to ask them why they're not switching straight to 11
13:36*ppc64 quietly slides into "ignore" mode
13:36<scorpion2185[m]>I made a key but it doesn't work on boot
13:36<mooff>dpkg, make a blurb about zram!
13:36<dpkg>mooff: are you smoking crack?
13:36<Konomi>you'll get a lot better results and not need to care about oom situations halting the computer to death
13:36-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:36<mooff>!!! dpkg
13:36<Konomi>(though you can tweak kernel settings to avoid the locking on traditional swap)
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13:37<Konomi>mooff: zram on swap is not documented by debian it's... a little too new
13:37<cOOl>scorpion2185[m] i can oly tell from my luks/lvm that the swap once did not mount by booting
13:37<sney>mooff: make one yourself, it's an infobot! (more people should be making factoids, so it's not just me and somiaj and a handful of others) http://www.infobot.org/guide-0.43.x.html - best done in a query in case you typo something and have to redo
13:37<scorpion2185[m]>no lvm
13:37<cOOl>i mounted it manualy after that it remounted auto the next times
13:38<cOOl>ah ok
13:38<ansgar>sney: But dpkg is no bot! See:
13:38<ansgar>dpkg: Are you a bot?
13:38<dpkg>I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
13:38<cOOl>only swap encryption
13:38<Konomi>mooff: https://gitlab.com/konomikitten/knowledge-base/-/blob/main/linux/swap.md wrote a guide if you're curious there's also tools on it for debian but the repo was archived so I don't expect that to stick around
13:38<scorpion2185[m]>? I have /, /root and swap with same password. do I need the key on /boot?
13:39<ansgar>We clearly need a trigger on "*dpkg*bot*" :)
13:39<scorpion2185[m]>`zram (previously called compcache) can create RAM based block devices. It is a module of the Linux kernel since 3.2. `
13:39<sney>ansgar: sure, more spam lol
13:40<cOOl>lol
13:40<scorpion2185[m]>!lol
13:40<dpkg>If you want to laugh, use heh or hah or bwahahaha. lol doesn't sound like laughter at all and makes you look like an AOL user.
13:40<TomyWork>is there any time frame for the first point release?
13:40<sney>that factoid is so old it's eligible for AARP
13:40<Konomi>and old enough to make jokes about chat services that died years ago
13:40<TomyWork>i.e. 11.1
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13:40<mooff>dpkg: lol!
13:40<dpkg>If you want to laugh, use heh or hah or bwahahaha. lol doesn't sound like laughter at all and makes you look like an AOL user.
13:41<Konomi>and apparently aspires to be as judgemental as it's creators
13:41<sney>TomyWork: I think I saw something about 1-2 months?
13:41<Konomi>is debian the ok boomer distro >.>
13:41<mooff>!old
13:41<mooff>dpkg: old is That factoid is so old it's eligible for AARP..
13:41<dpkg>mooff: okay
13:41<TomyWork>it's the great boomer distro
13:41<mooff>;D
13:42<sney>buster came out in july 2019, and 10.1 followed in september 2019, so yeah about 2 months
13:42<sney>dpkg: forget old
13:42<dpkg>i forgot old , sney
13:42<cOOl>im just working on packing the rtl8188eus drivers into a .deb package :)
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13:42<sney>please don't abuse the bot.
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13:42<mooff>heh, i thought it'd be useful ;)
13:42<scorpion2185[m]>does Debian have Sign EXtend? aka !sex
13:42<TomyWork>sney, ok that's reasonable. they'll probably take half a year to switch their production env to 11 anyway, so that'll be plenty of time :)
13:42<sney>the really dusty factoids we try to edit so they're useful, or delete if they're just gunk
13:42<scorpion2185[m]>!sex
13:42<dpkg>updatedb; locate; talk; date; cd; strip; look; touch; finger; unzip; uptime; gawk; head; apt-get install diaphram; mount; fsck; more; yes; yes; yes; more; umount; apt-get remove --purge diaphram; make clean; sleep
13:43<scorpion2185[m]>so can I do something for key on swap?
13:43<TomyWork>missing a g in diaphragm
13:44<TomyWork>but i guess the package is/was called that way?
13:44<mooff>the updatedb; could also be dropped
13:44<FLD>wow, all those the steps taken unconditionally without regard for exist codes! rape!
13:44<mooff>and s/apt-get/apt/g s/ remove --//g
13:44<TomyWork>FLD, better do a "set -e" first
13:45<sney>!offtopic
13:45<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
13:45<mooff>lol ^
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13:45<Konomi>needs a way to list all the bang commands
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13:46<cOOl>just saw that ubuntu is using a 5.11 kernel..
13:46<cOOl>in 20.04
13:46<TomyWork>Konomi, is !sex a bang command?
13:46<sney>!bot search
13:46<dpkg>You can search my database on the web at http://ircbots.debian.net/ or on IRC by asking me about <help listkeys> and <help-listvals>. My factoids are available at https://dpkg.donarmstrong.com/ in archives that are updated nightly and the previous 18 days are there. See also <search>.
13:46<cOOl>so the ubuntu kernel is more recent then them used in my sid installation atm
13:46<TomyWork>I'm sorry, that was a terrible joke and I apologize for it
13:47<cOOl>shoul compile the 5.14 on kernel.org...
13:47<bremner>cOOl: if you must have the latest version, check experimental
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13:47<Konomi>TomyWork: considering the kind of people that tend to gather around computers, it definitely qualifies
13:47<sney>cOOl: bullseye stabilized on 5.10 and will stay there for the full lifecycle, while sid/bookworm will start getting regular kernel uploads fairly soon. #debian-next is also the sid/testing channel rather than here
13:47<mooff>cOOl: my 20.04 server with unattended upgrades is running 5.4.0...
13:47<TomyWork>cOOl, ubuntu allows installing so-called HWE packages that include, among other things, a newer kernel, so the situation isn't the same as on debian
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13:48<cOOl>sney, i know im in those channels .. yes i think the 5.11 is still the same but renamed as the the 5.10
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13:48<scorpion2185[m]>can somebody tell me if cryttab is fine?
13:49<cOOl>TomyWork it is a regular Kernel in ubuntu that i get with an normal upgrade
13:49<cOOl>its called 5.11
13:49<scorpion2185[m]>`sdaX_crypt UUID=xxxx-xxxx none /root/key luks,swap,discard`
13:49<scorpion2185[m]>do I need to remove none maybe?
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13:50<cOOl>i have 5 maschines.. this here is bullseye,, ok the kernel will be there for release lifetime like 4.19 in buster.. but i wonder nothing happens in sid.. atm im on 5.10.0-8 in sid also
13:50<mooff>cOOl: the latest kernel in 20.04.3 is 5.4.0.81
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13:51<mooff>and, you could run 5.13 from experimental if you're feeling groovy
13:52<TomyWork>cOOl, I have 5.4 on ubuntu 18.04. afaict, that's hwe
13:52<cOOl>moof in ubuntu or in debian
13:52<cOOl>?
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13:53<TomyWork>cOOl, https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle says here that Ubuntu 20.04.5 LTS will get the 22.04 kernel
13:54<cOOl>yeas but im not interested in ubuntu at all
13:54<TomyWork>oops, and Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS gets the 5.11 kernel
13:54<cOOl>TomyWork that what i told
13:55<Konomi>ubuntu is really good with updating things but again this is somewhat offtopic ;p
13:55<cOOl>but im not interested in ubuntu at all.. what is the latest kernel in debian
13:55<Konomi>iirc
13:55<Konomi>!kernel
13:55<dpkg>Linux kernel versions, stable: 5.14.1, mainline: 5.14, stable 5.14: 5.14.1, stable 5.13: 5.13.14, longterm 5.10: 5.10.62, longterm 5.4: 5.4.144, longterm 4.19: 4.19.206, longterm 4.14: 4.14.246, longterm 4.9: 4.9.282, longterm 4.4: 4.4.283, linux-next: next-20210903
13:55<Konomi>there you go
13:55<sney>bookworm and sid will get regular kernel uploads starting soon, and they'll keep going until the kernel and release teams decide what to stabilize bookworm on
13:55<Konomi>wait that's linux's upstream...
13:55<sney>it takes a minute to get a testing cycle rolling, which is why bookworm/sid is still on 5.10.0-8, but just be a little patient
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13:56<cOOl>Konami ok sney that was my question ;)
13:56<cOOl>ups
13:56<cOOl>ok sney that was my question ;)
13:56<sney>np
13:56<Konomi>cOOl: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all&searchon=names&keywords=linux-image-amd64
13:56<cOOl>the latest usable kernel in debain
13:56<Konomi>you can use this to check
13:57<cOOl>oh cool
13:57<cOOl>thx
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13:57<cOOl>that was what i serached for
13:57<cOOl>exdperimental has an repo ?
13:57<Konomi>yeah you gotta hit all suits
13:57<sney>tracker.debian.org/linux also has a rss feed on the 'news' panel, so you can get notified about new uploads as they happen
13:57<Konomi>of course it does how would you use it otherwise ~
13:58<cOOl>ok that is new to me did not know about experimental
13:58<cOOl>will have a look at it
13:58<Konomi>experimental actually differs very little from unstable most of the time
13:58<Konomi>same for testing
13:58<cOOl>yes
13:58<cOOl>nice
13:58<cOOl>thx
13:58<Konomi>you're welcome \o/
13:59<sney>packages in experimental are not intended for the normal debian migrations though, so they may have weird stuff enabled, or maintainer tests, it's a good idea to look at the changelog of that package before you even consider installing it
13:59<sney>in case there's some "test package do not use, may delete data" note etc
13:59<cOOl>ok. yes it is also for building stuff and package integration ..
13:59<Konomi>testing/unstable/experimental get zero support so if you're after newer packages I suggest another distro
14:00<sney>this looks fairly sane though, https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/l/linux/changelog-5.14-1exp1
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14:00<cOOl>was wondering how a ubuntu stable could have an more recent kernel release as debian.. ok the experimental i did not know about.. thx
14:00<scorpion2185[m]>is this bug still open https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818158?
14:00<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/818158 in systemd (open, help): «cryptsetup: multiple devices with decrypt_keyctl still ask for multiple passwords»; severity: important; opened: 2016-03-14; last modified: 2018-04-25.
14:00<Konomi>ubuntu cares about updating more often than debian does
14:00<Konomi>if you care about that ubuntu is the better distro to use
14:00<somiaj>well testing/unstable gets support in #debian-next and most imporntally the BTS, though I think what Konomi meant was no direct security support
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14:01<cOOl>Konomi no lol i will not go to ubuntu ;)
14:01<Konomi>debian can end up in an old state on stable very quickly and it can become very problematic very quickly if you just brought your computer
14:01<sney>and ubuntu is on a different schedule than debian, debian just had a stable release and the next cycle is just starting, while ubuntu does things quarterly so we're not lined up at all
14:01<Konomi>or brave testing up to you
14:01<DoctorD90>somiaj, Sqrt{not} im dumb ahahah I was struggling to boot the ISO and I didnt think to just copy the content of iso to the working GRUB partition ahahahahah.....now it loads the iso without issue :D and I can update the iso version just removing everything and copying back a new version ahahahah
14:01<cOOl>im on sid on 3 maschines.. and on testing on another one
14:01<cOOl>just this here is oon bullseye
14:02<somiaj>AT least with hardware support, stable often gets new kernels in backports, so often times you can get newer hardware to work with some backports
14:02<cOOl>im building two own distros based on debian..
14:02<sney>once the bookworm cycle gets going, we could see multiple kernel uploads every month
14:02<cOOl>my stable releases go along with debian stable but with own repos
14:02<somiaj>DoctorD90: oh nice, glad you got it to work. You also know you could make an install read-only, so it is not possible to change, or are you wanting to be able to install/remove stuff and then reboot to get back to the original state?
14:02<Konomi>somiaj: that's true and waht I'm trying atm we'll see how it goes
14:03<somiaj>Konomi: your hardware is too new for 5.10?
14:03<TomyWork>what is a canonical way to refer to debian 11 that includes the word "stable", but also a permanent version marker?
14:03<TomyWork>Debian 11 stable? Debian stable 11?
14:03<Konomi>somiaj: I'm actually on 5.4.148 or whatever it is from upstread
14:03<somiaj>TomyWork: codenames, bullseye
14:04<somiaj>Konomi: is there a 5.10 regression then on your hardware? Seems bullseye should work.
14:04<TomyWork>I need something that includes the word "stable"
14:04<cOOl>so after bullseye is released i will release my work to.. but to continue in the future i need to build on testing and sid.. i need to modify my packages.. until its stable again..
14:04<DoctorD90>somiaj, nono, my point is to have a litterally fresh version at each boot. I was also thinking to create a custom iso with a custom set of packages....but currently I havent free space on this machine to do it :D
14:04<TomyWork>because that sounds good
14:04<Konomi>somiaj: the regression is with nvidia drivers I need to stay on 440.100
14:04<TomyWork>"Debian 11 stable" and "Debian stable 11 both sound odd
14:04<Konomi>I'll wait for backports to get 470.xx at some point see if the bug is fixed
14:04<TomyWork>+"
14:04<Konomi>but for now I'm stuck here
14:04<somiaj>TomyWork: in what context, because 'stable' changes each release, and there is 'oldstable', so codenames are often more descriptive
14:04<DoctorD90>Im not interest at all in having any persistent data across reboots (except some downloads or settings)
14:04<Konomi>or you know get an amd gfx and not have to deal with nvidia
14:04<cOOl>my gaming maschine is always on sid
14:04<somiaj>,v nvidia-kernel-dkms
14:04<judd>Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.197.02-1; buster-backports/non-free: 460.73.01-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 460.91.03-1; bookworm/non-free: 470.57.02-2; sid/non-free: 470.57.02-2
14:05<sney>TomyWork: debian stable, 11.0. (and then 11.1, 11.2, etc as time passes)
14:05<cOOl>tweak around always .. until it works for a while
14:05<TomyWork>somiaj, the context is telling someone to update to 11 instead of 10, by calling it stable and calling 10 oldstable
14:05<somiaj>Konomi: In the past I haven't had to much issue backporting the non-free nvidia drivers (provided they build against the kernel)
14:05<TomyWork>(from 9)
14:05<cOOl>xorg login brakes some weeks ago.. so that was a hard stuff
14:05<cOOl>in sid
14:06<somiaj>TomyWork: I guess I would say, the new debian stable release is bullseye (or debian 11) and buster (or debian 10) is now oldstable.
14:06<Konomi>somiaj: I honestly want to get away from nvidia but I'm poor and this is a hand me down so
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14:06<cOOl>i have one older maschine already 5 years on sid.. ;)
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14:06<somiaj>Konomi: ahh yea, amdgpu is fairly good I hear. I personally stick with nvidia, have been using it for 15+ years, and know what to expect, and in the end it works well for me. (though my card is a bit older)
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14:07<Konomi>somiaj: for me I want to play ffxiv (mmo) and anything about 440.100 produces weird crashes I informed nvidia who "fixed it" but it still crashes
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14:08<Konomi>so I tend to check back on the nvidia driver now and then hoping it has been fixed but no luck
14:08<TomyWork>went with "Debian 11 (=stable)"
14:08<somiaj>Konomi: are you not running debian, your kernel version and nvidia version don't seem to match buster or bullseye.
14:08<somiaj>buster has 660.91.03, or do you need newer than that?
14:09<Konomi>somiaj: oh I very much do just more changed than most https://files.catbox.moe/temd69.png
14:10<Konomi>the kernel and nvidia are out of version step with bullseye everything else is the same
14:11<Konomi>the install actually dates back to stretch I think
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14:12<somiaj>well maybe checking out the buster kernel and nvidia drivers may fix some of your issues.
14:12<Konomi>they don't
14:13<somiaj>Thugh with nvidia, it gets harder to build newer drivers against older kernels.
14:13<Konomi>I've already tested all versions up to 460
14:13<Konomi>when 470 hits backports I'll try that but I don't have high hopes :3
14:13<somiaj>Since you do custom stuff, backporting 470 isn't to hard to do for yourself.
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14:14<Konomi>I've considered it but I just don't have a lot of energy atm I live in melb au and we're under a harsh lockdown
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14:14<somiaj>Maybe a project could help distract you...anyways my issue is I need a longer mouse cable.....:/
14:14<Konomi>I still have work pending on some fdroid stuff I awnt to do etc
14:15<somiaj>not something #debian can help with, but I find it annoying multiple times a day
14:15<Konomi>a longer mouse cable sure is an odd one
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14:15<somiaj>oh wait, I keep forgetting my monintors have usb plugs in them, I can just move my mouse cable, see just stating the problem out loud fixed it
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14:16<somiaj>woot problem fixed
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14:17<somiaj>old habits die hard, just use to pluging everything into the desktop, which was just slightly too far away for my setup here
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14:21<kali_>hola
14:21<somiaj>Hello, are you running Kali linux?
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14:21<kali_>yes
14:21<kali_>speak spanish
14:21<somiaj>Well welcome to #debian, but support for kali isn't here, as we support only debian pure blends
14:21<somiaj>!kali
14:21<dpkg>Kali Linux https://kali.org/ is a security/penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but is different enough that we don't provide support in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or https://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian> and read https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
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14:22<another>cOOl: Did you notice that bullseye was released 2-3 weeks ago?
14:22<somiaj>I do not know of any spanish speaking kali support channel.
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14:22<Konomi>kali_: give #debian-es a try I think that's the spanish channel?
14:22<somiaj>Konomi: That is not a good place for kali support
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14:23<Konomi>somiaj: I was thinking they might be using kali but have a debain question
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14:23<somiaj>kali_: though if you choose to run debian (which may be a good place to learn), that would be a good place to go
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14:48<urk>How do I give focus to program items on my desktop, and panel items in my menu bar? I want my calendar popup to have top focus on top of browsers, and same goes with program items if the browser stretches below their location. I ran the top command, but don't see the items I am looking for.
14:48<bremner>urk: this will depend on your DE / window-manager
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15:04<Passerby>You could probably use wmctrl or devilspie2 for that.
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15:08<nifker>I just installed debian on a system of mine with MATE and the keyboard is behaving weird(german layout) when I press ^ twice only get one circumflex instead of two as usual on linux system - which causes some applications to not properly recognize it
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15:09<ansgar>nifker: That are dead keys. Choose the nodeadkeys keyboard layout variant.
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15:15<nifker>ansgar: thanks that worked
15:15<nifker>even though the behaviour is just slightly different from what Im used to but its working
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16:08<tjcarter>DoctorD90: It puts the hooks needed to generate iso boot items in place. You put hybrid iso images in /boot/grml and just run update-grub
16:08<urk>bremner: Do you mean display manager? If so, I am running sddm with the LXDE interface. XFCE4* quit working in Debian 10.9
16:09<urk>There are various configuration tweaks that are a lot more work in LXDE, and the tool set was better in XFCE, but right now LXDE seems to be working, but requires a lot more configuring since things are not out of the box.
16:11<mooff>tjcarter: reading that in the sense of "it puts the lotion on its skin"...
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16:12<mooff>urk: glad you got LXDE working
16:12<mooff>i wondered if the upgrade switched you over to Wayland, and that was causing some of your issues
16:12<mooff>could you report the output of: echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE ?
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16:13<tjcarter>urk: you asked before about stuff for LXDE you didn't see … I use Cinnamon, which uses gnome-terminal, but gnome-terminal has the disadvantage of having been developed by people with rectal-cranial inversion and an attitude that they'll tell you what you do and don't need (like the rest of Gnome…) I use xfce4-terminal instead. Mixing and matching components generally does work.
16:14<mooff>"you're holding it wrong" :)
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16:14<urk>mooff: Yeah, but there is a lot of tweaking that has to be done to provide the same functionality as XFCE. Example: You have to set preserve screen view for each view within a folder, have to snap to grid each individual program icon since only one menu bar is allowed at the bottom of the screen. Haven't figured how to import a cabinet with a directory tree so I just moved the documents folder to the bottom. Also, haven't figured how how to give
16:14<urk>primary focus to the panel items so that they are on top of the browser view, but things are progressing. There are other annoyances such as folder minimizing upon focus instead of displaying, but the work around is to give focus to the icon with a right click of the mouse.
16:14*ppc64 just uses XTerm the same for forty years
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16:15<urk>For now I am going to stay with LXDE, and just work on creating or importing the missing tools I need. However, trying to figure out how to give top focus to panel items would be a big help.
16:15<tjcarter>yeah … I used Apple stuff for awhile. I've gotten to the point I'm not putting up with that kind of attitude anymore.
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16:18<mooff>urk: if LXDE suits you, that's great
16:19<mooff>don't be afraid to take a peek at cinnamon, and budgie-desktop, if you want, before you settle
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16:19<urk>mooff: I prefer XFCE if it was working. Seems like Debian hasn't been too careful to allow these types of things to get introduced so hopefully someone will take notice of my postings.
16:20<mooff>urk: it might be helpful if you could make a tar of your old .config/xfce4 folder, and send it to the Debian XFCE maintainers
16:20<urk>I do plan on trying an upgrade again to Kernel 5.10, but next time I am going to do it in emulation mode so that it doesn't impair my system. The laptop I use for this is also used as a reservation system, and other work stuff so I have to be careful about upgrades, updates, etc.
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16:20<mooff>what do you mean by 'emulation mode'?
16:20<urk>mooff: I agree, and that would be a good idea. I will try to do it when I get a chance.
16:21<tjcarter>ppc64: I mock the kids running around "boomer" this and "boomer" that talking about their ultra-minimalist approaches to everything as if we gen-x "boomers" don't know what minimalist software looks like or know how to use it. I could assure them that we do, but "kids these days" (lol) don't much seem interested in listening to us old farts. Even so, there's reasons to argue that all
16:21<tjcarter>the DEs could reasonably be lighter if you were willing to give up some stuff that maybe you don't need. It's all a question of min-maxing features vs. memory. And I've got 32GB.
16:21<tjcarter>Still, if Fluxbox had a compositor and a magnifier, I'd strongly be considering it
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16:23<ppc64>sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. I just use XTerms to get a lot of code work done and it works.
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16:24<tjcarter>ppc64: the ability to quickly copy URLs out of the terminal (a feature of xfce4-terminal and gnome-terminal) that rxvt and xterm and friends haven't got for example … That's pure fluff if you're trying to just run a terminal, but it's convenient fluff.
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16:28<tjcarter>I also swapped out the standard screenshot feature of Cinnamon for Flameshot because I use its scribbling features for work. I mean, you can just use xwd for that, 35k vs. 1.1M (plus flameshot pulls in tons of Qt/KDE stuff)
16:28-!-skrrrt [~skrrrt@dslb-002-204-055-235.002.204.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:29<tjcarter>but being able to just plop arrows, circles, and text on screenshots is really handy when you work in tech support. 😃
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16:32<tjcarter>plus hasn't VTE now gained 24 bit color, graphics in the terminal, and other cute little features? A little unnecessary I admit, but such things can come in handy.
16:33<tjcarter>The overall point, though, is that there's lots of choices for doing most anything. People don't have to feel tied into any particular canned experience if pieces of it don't serve their needs, but others do.
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16:37<mooff>i think it's just Qt stuff that flameshot relies on
16:37<tjcarter>might be, but that's still a fair bit
16:37<mooff>at least, i'm slightly allergic to KDE, have most of Qt, and it didn't need any extra deps
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16:37*mooff hopes to learn flameshot soon
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16:45<tjcarter>Actually what I wonder about is why the ultra-minimalist crowd are sticking with X11 at this point. It's true that a lot of xlib-based things are smaller than GTK or Qt based applications, but nobody said you couldn't make something fairly lightweight for wayland, and wayland's a lot more low-fat than xorg with its decades of backward-compatibility crud that can never be jetisoned.
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16:46<sney>tjcarter: well, there's sway, which is i3 but for wayland
16:47<sney>I think it's just slow adoption plus existing power users are probably using a lot of X-specific hacks that don't apply
16:47<bremner>running Xwayland anyway doesn't sound too minimalist
16:48<bremner>so unless _all_ of your tools support wayland natively...
16:48<tjcarter>bremner: but xwayland is only needed if you need X11, and at this point you might not.
16:48<bremner>I do.
16:48<bremner>not that I consider myself an ultra-minimalist, but I do run i3
16:48<tjcarter>I think I only do if I use tk or something
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16:49<tjcarter>Cinnamon doesn't use wayland, but likely only because Clem doesn't wanna mess with it yet.
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16:51<sney>the big DEs are taking their time. plasma "works" but it's wonky, there are a lot of moving parts
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16:54<tjcarter>I gave LXQt a try but it felt fairly broken to me. Stuff didn't work the way I expected to and I couldn't figure out how to change several important things. I could've futzed with it and got it working I'm sure, but a largely very bright background with no icons I saw and I couldn't figure out how to change it … too hard to see for the way my eyes work
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16:57<tepozoa>MATE just works. so boring and usable there's nothing to really talk about.
16:57<tjcarter>Cinnamon almost just works, which is why I'm using it currently.
16:57<nulleip>hey, last update on printer-driver-pnm2ppa (1.13-11) have problems with postinstall
16:58<tepozoa>I used XFCE during the transition years (GNOME2->MATE) and it's OK, not shabby at all but as soon as MATE went stable I went right back to using it
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16:58<sney>nulleip: can you share the error output?
16:59<nulleip>I replaced the line with TEMPFILE=`tempfile` to TEMPFILE=`mktemp` in /var/lib/dpkg/info/printer-driver-pnm2ppa.postinst and worked... on unstable
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16:59<nulleip>sney, ok, wait a sec..
16:59<nulleip>sney: /var/lib/dpkg/info/printer-driver-pnm2ppa.postinst: 1: tempfile: not found
16:59<somiaj>nulleip: are you running testing/unstable?
17:00<tjcarter>nulleip: that's better in #debian-next
17:00<nulleip>somiaj: yes.. since many years ago..
17:00<sney>is that on sid? tempfile was removed recently, a lot of people are unhappy about it
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17:00<somiaj>then as tjcarter pointed out #debian-next is more for that support, we mostly stick to stable here, also have you checked the BTS?
17:00<sney>as an experienced sid user, you should know that using sid for "many years" is irrelevant because anything can change without warning
17:00<tjcarter>(I grabbed tempfile and which from bullseye's version and stuffed them in /usr/local)
17:01<nulleip>sney: Yes... I like to test things on their latest.. even if unstable
17:02<nulleip>I think unstable is pretty stable for me, only had real problems when xorg broke ABI long ago..
17:02<sney>nulleip: ok, well, the postinst is broken because tempfile was removed, but you still get to keep all of the pieces.
17:02<sney>read tjcarter's tip about putting tempfile in /usr/local, and next time ask your question in #debian-next, please
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17:02<nulleip>Ok, thank you, will do
17:03<tjcarter>nulleip: the #debian-next thing though has a lot more to do with avoiding confusion with folks who are pretty green (which happens a fair bit) and sometimes keeping the traffic in the channel more manageable.
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17:06<tjcarter>but yes, unstable's usually pretty stable (excepting at the start of a new cycle or when a dev does something for which they should be fwopped soundly with a pool noodle). Several folks asking for help here though probably shouldn't run it because I'm relatively sure that they wouldn't know how to recover if something goes wrong.
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17:07<sney>big transitions make things messy too, since unstable doesn't need to be user friendly, a whole lot of packages can be replaced at once and break your workflow if you aren't careful.
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17:09<tjcarter>hell, a minor update to libreoffice can do that. Does do that every few weeks.
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17:10<sney>well sure, but that's a smaller impact than when bullseye went to python 3.9, for instance
17:10<tjcarter>oh yes.
17:10<sney>I think a lot of people use sid and it's usually ok and they get into a habit of thinking it's always like that. and that's when it gets ya
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17:12<tjcarter>I think stable today might have a few more justifications for staying there with backports than a couple of releases ago
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17:13<tjcarter>I don't think I'd want to stick with firefox 78 for the next couple of years, really. But if I don't have to …
17:13<sney>yeah, longevity is definitely improving
17:13<sney>firefox-esr seems to have a standing exception now, when upstream drops a new esr it gets into debian even if it's a newer version
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17:14<tjcarter>at least into the next point release
17:14<sney>it was a big deal when it happened the first time in buster, but now it seems to be assumed
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17:15<tjcarter>I think it's fair to do it that way since browsers really are kind of a moving target now and they kinda almost have to be.
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17:15<mooff>i would love to see new Firefox and Chromium releases available for stable for this reason ^
17:15<tjcarter>I think I'd still argue for point releases having two kernels more like how Ubuntu does that.
17:16<sney>there's been some discussion about having them in fasttrack, though the firefox maintainer doesn't want to do it
17:16<tjcarter>firefox is NOT a trivial package to build, maintain, and support.
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17:17<sney>yeah, and having 1 maintainer is... I feel bad for Mike Hommey, I hope he doesn't have an ulcer or something
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17:17<mooff>how come lots of stuff has a team around it, but firefox is left for one person?
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17:18*Guest6218 I use debian 11( gnome). I changed scale of display to 200% . but when I restart the PC scale is on 100%. why display settings do not save?
17:19<ansgar>sney: I think Debian's Firefox maintainer is employeed by Mozilla at least which might make life a bit easier :)
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17:19<tjcarter>Guest6218: by what means did you change it?
17:19<sney>ansgar: I'm sure that helps, but browsers should probably be team maintained is the point
17:19*Guest6218 also I installed nethogs but it is not avaliable in terminal
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17:20<ansgar>sney: /me laughs in dpkg
17:21<mooff>Guest6218: did you install Debian 11 fresh, or upgrade from 10?
17:21<tjcarter>Guest6218: I'll bet /usr/sbin is not in your path
17:21<tepozoa>Guest6218: what do you mean "nethogs is not available in the terminal" ? nethogs is a term app
17:21<sney>!sbin
17:21<dpkg>Some binaries, particularly system utilities are installed to /sbin or /usr/sbin rather than /bin or /usr/bin. The former directories are not in a standard user's PATH. Try calling them directly, e.g. /sbin/ifconfig, or running them as root. See also <buster su>.
17:21<tepozoa>tastes great, less filling
17:22<mooff>btw, what's the equivalent of "dpkg -L" for packages in the archive?
17:22<sney>if you became root with "su" or "sudo su", then exit that terminal and try again with "su -" or "sudo -i"
17:22<sney>and never use "sudo su" again
17:22<tjcarter>mooff: I use apt-file
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17:23<mooff>cool, apt-file list / apt-file show does it
17:23<tjcarter>NB: apt-file no longer works in Ubuntu-based distributions despite being in ubuntu because ubuntu is ubuntu.
17:24<Guest6218>/me "echo $PATH
17:24<Guest6218>/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"
17:24<tjcarter>as predicted
17:25<tjcarter>/usr/sbin/nethogs will not be in that path.
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17:25<mooff>for the scaling issue.. maybe just try it again
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17:26<tjcarter>scaling settings will depend on what is being scaled and how.
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17:28<mooff>check what `gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor` reports after you change it
17:28<mooff>and/or on reboot
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17:29<Guest6218>Thank you guys
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17:35<Guest6218>/me `gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor`
17:35<Guest6218>after scaling to 200%
17:35<Guest6218>uint32 0
17:39<mooff>i'd guess that represents an "auto" value
17:39<mooff>try: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 2
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18:20<urk>What folders are icon images normally stored at?
18:20<tjcarter>yours or the system's?
18:20<mooff> /usr/share/icons
18:21<mooff>~/.local/share/icons
18:22<tjcarter>man xdg-icon-resource
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18:23<somiaj>Note in general one shouldn't be manually adding things to /usr/share/icons, and use your users libarary
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18:36<urk>How do I shrink the icon size on my desktop icons? I entered an excutable, and everything became three times as big. I don't see any setting for this in LXDE.
18:38<urk>Fixed it. Never mind.
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18:38<urk>I am still getting used to LXDE which has its own set of quirks. Not too much is out of the box with thie desktop, and a lot of tweaking is needed.
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18:47<tuxd3v>I am looking at getconf, and UINT_MAX equals 4294967295
18:47<tuxd3v>only the long int is 64 bits
18:48<tuxd3v>amd64
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18:52<sarnold>tuxd3v: check out the table at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit_computing#64-bit_data_models
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18:53<Guest6225>p
18:53<Guest6225>p
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18:57<tuxd3v>sarnold, many thanks, yeah we are using the LP64 model..but I would prefer the ILP64
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18:59<sarnold>tuxd3v: that's probably 'just' a matter of changing the gcc specs and recompiling everything
19:00<tuxd3v>yeah, everything needs to be compliant :)
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19:51<Jimm>Greetings, I am stumped by a dm-crypt partition which is automounting at boot despite nothing being in fstab. This causes issues with reboot as the system is headless. I think it may be related to systemd but unable to find any doco on it.
19:51<urk>My bottom panel bar now disappears unless I hover over it, and I didn't change any settings to cause this. How do I make my bottom LXDE panel bar reappear, and stay resonant? NO one is answering in the LXDE channel. I am running Debian 10.9, Kernel 4.19 with the LXDE interface.
19:51-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
19:52<bremner>one of the tradeoffs with using a less popular DE is you have a smaller community and you have to be more patient
19:52<boud>Jimm - /etc/crypttab ; info crypttab
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19:58<Jimm>boud: legend thank you, added ,noauto did the trick
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20:01<Passerby>That might be an Openbox setting, urk, as LXDE uses Openbox for its window manager (last I checked).
20:02<lostgal>I am unable to connect to the LIBERA irc server
20:02<Passerby>See the dock/autoHide setting, for example.
20:03<Passerby>/join #openbox for another help avenue.
20:04<lostgal>freenode is libera now?
20:04<urk>Passerby: Yeah, I unchecked open box, and now have no window control. I am not that smart.
20:04<urk>How do I turn open box back on?
20:06<dvs>lostgal: libera works for me.
20:06<urk>I am not happy. My computer is crashing again. I'm sure its just a configuration issue, but the thing I liked about XFCE is that you couldn't mess it up -- at least that is what I thought.
20:07-!-mentor [~mentor@00010c5b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12<lostgal>is it safe to be naked in front of the camera on debian?
20:13*dvs pulls out the popcorn
20:13<urk>Passerby: How do I start the control for Open Box? I think I shut it off by mistake.
20:14<urk>I am going to have to close down this program because I don't have a window manager, but will log back in a few minutes.
20:15-!-urk [~urk@2601:647:5c80:2730::2] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:15<lostgal>I heard that there are hackers who invade everything on the pc even the camera.
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20:20<lostgal>my uncle told me that, I entered his rooms here to confirm.
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20:22<mooff>urk: i think you should give cinnamon a go
20:22<mooff>apt install cinnamon
20:22<lostgal>if you're shy, never be exposed to a cell phone and laptop camera, unless it's on purpose.
20:22<lostgal>they told
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20:23<urk>LXDE is ok as long as you can figure out where things are at. But it does require a lot more customization to do the samve level of behaviors as XFCE, and doesn't offer a default directory tree. However, I made one by moving the documents folder to the bottom, and chaged settings inside. I got open box restarted, but still haven't figured out how to restore my amazing disappearing bottom panel that disappears when focus is removed.
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20:24<urk>OK, I found the setting. It was called "Minimize" panel when not in use instead of hid panel so my panel is restored.
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20:25<urk>I tried Cinnamon a long time ago. Its ok. I might try it in the future, but have some pressing deadline at work that need to be taken care of before I go tinkering with my computer, and will likely try it in emulation mode since I am so freaked out as to what happened with previoius attempts at upgrading to kernel 5.10
20:26<lostgal>Ele ta aqui do meu lado agora. E disse: voce quer aprender muitas coisas que não estão nos livros, pergunte aqui.
20:27<sarnold>!pt | lostgal
20:27<sarnold>heh I thought the bot knew that..
20:27<sarnold>or maybe it's a privmsg. hrm.
20:27<somiaj>sarnold: tell foo -about pt
20:27<lostgal>I am really sorry
20:27<somiaj>or just tell foo about factoid, the -about keeps dpkg from also sending you a message
20:27<Sqrt{not}>lostgal, libera is at irc.libera.chat
20:28<sarnold>somiaj: oh handy, thanks
20:29<Unit193>urk: Curious, if Xfce works better for you, why try LXDE?
20:29-!-bertbob [~bertbob@67-2-54-184.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #debian
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20:30<sarnold>Unit193: heh honeslty over the last two weeks or so I don't think anything at all has worked well for urk.. I've thought about proposing a re-install with something completely different for a while
20:30<lostgal>My uncle said that the more experienced ones are here... They can even teach me lessons I don't know.
20:30<urk>XFCE crashed, and not sure what was going on with it. It acts like either the display or window manager quit working with the latest update. For now, I am going to stay with LXDE, but may try XFCE in emulation mode, and another attempt at installing kernel 5.10 in emulation mode before doing anything further with my computer. One of the things I like with XFCE is its tool set, particularly is cabinet tool with the directory tree. But I can make the
20:30<urk>same tool in XFCE. Its just a little more work.
20:30<Unit193>Ah.
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20:37<lostgal>I'm sixteen but everyone says I look like I'm 20.
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20:38<lostgal>My best friend is 20 and stunted and doesn't even look 16.
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20:40<lostgal>My uncle next door is teasing me, saying that when he's alone the moods are drier.
20:44<lostgal>get me some space \julia....
20:44<sussudio>can someone ban this spambot
20:44<mooff>!ops
20:44<dpkg>Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel.
20:46<Sqrt{not}>lostgal, this is a debian support channel. Please troll elsewhere
20:46<tjcarter>🍿
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20:50<lostgal>my uncle said that if i install debian i choose a simple 'dsktop' so i shorten the learning curve. Type comes menus just like windows 98 and everything is simple. Then he said lxde and xfce
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20:55<lostgal>hahha, he's now telling me to be a good girl online, otherwise the boggart will come after me... he said he's not kidding...
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21:01<crazyfrog>hey, i created a lxc container the ping to a hostname is good but takes long time, pinging ips works great
21:01<crazyfrog>can someone help?
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21:03<lostgal>He knows I like PCs and keeps bugging me about different careers I can do. And he said that 'here' almost everyone is a system administrator.
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21:06<sussudio>!ops spambot lostgal
21:06<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: sussudio complains about a problem (see above)
21:06-!-mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ
21:06-!-lostgal was kicked from #debian by somiaj [you should know better]
21:06-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@186-241-171-244.user.veloxzone.com.br] by somiaj
21:06<sussudio>that factoid probably needs to be updated.
21:06-!-mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj
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21:07<sarnold>crazyfrog: what's the /etc/resolv.conf look like from within the container?
21:08<somiaj>sussudio: what needs to be updated about it?
21:08<sussudio>somiaj: well, richih hasn't been here for a while... don't know about the others i don't recognize.
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21:09<somiaj>I think they are technically still ops, but yea a few of them haven't been around for a while
21:09<somiaj>though if they ever are around, I think they are still in the corresponding op group
21:09<sussudio>hm
21:10<somiaj>I'll let the other ops know, maybe someone has better knowledge than I do of some of the names that haven't been around for a while.
21:11<crazyfrog>sarnold, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/ff504d51/
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21:12<mooff>thanks somiaj
21:12<sarnold>crazyfrog: can you reach all three nameservers on udp 53 and tcp 53 from within the containers?
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21:16<crazyfrog>sarnold, the first pair i can't reach but from the host the ping is ok
21:16<crazyfrog>why?
21:17<mooff>what do you mean by the ping is ok?
21:17<crazyfrog>ping works
21:17<crazyfrog>good
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21:18<mooff>but you can't reach them?
21:18<crazyfrog>thx!
21:18<sarnold>crazyfrog: what's the routing / firewalling of your container look like? do you *expect* to be able to reach those two IP addresses from your container? are you checking udp and tcp or only icmp?
21:19<crazyfrog>only icmp
21:19<crazyfrog>can it also be a wrong broadcast address?
21:20<sarnold>probably not, broadcast is never used with DNS
21:20<sarnold>udp and tcp unicast are used though :)
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21:24<mooff>crazyfrog: can you ping e.g. 1.1.1.1 from inside the container?
21:24<crazyfrog>yes and 8.8.8.8 is a little faster with the ping
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21:26<crazyfrog>no problem it's ok, i we'll look maybe in the next days for a solution, when i put 1.1.1.1 on the first it's works good
21:26<mooff>i had networking pains with lxc a couple of years ago
21:27<mooff>i ended up hacking resolv.conf inside containers like that, and more
21:28<mooff>then gave in and used Docker
21:28<mooff>hoping it lxc/lxd would be smoother in a couple of years :)
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21:31<sarnold>I haven't had any problems with lxd, it all goes more or less as I expect, but then I've got insanely simple networking in place, heh
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21:35<nickgaw>Hi, With stable or testing if I was wanting to reinstall Debian with everything backed up of course and wanted to encrypt my partitions is there a way to bypass that long LVM encrypting process and just encrypt / and /home not caring about if traces of old data remain?
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21:38<sarnold>what other filesystems do you have? / and /home are usually together a gigantic chunk of what the machine has
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21:39<mooff>wonder if they're referring to some sort of secure erase step
21:39<nickgaw>just two partitions of ext4 but when I once did the encryption LVM formatting and erasing took over an hour so I was wondering if there is a way to enable encryption and not have that long wait time?
21:39<sarnold>mooff: ahh, possibly
21:40<nickgaw>What options would I setup? If I don't do LVM would encryption still work?
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21:41<tjcarter>nickgaw: It's possible to skip the erase time. It's unwise on spinning rust, however.
21:41<tjcarter>Opinions are mixed on SSD
21:41<sarnold>yes you can do encryption directly under a filesystem, no lvm, but I don't think it'll change any time at all, it'll then need to 'zero' the entire block device instead of the entire lvm thingy..
21:41<nickgaw>I don't care about the data on the drive so how can I skip the wait time?
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21:42<tjcarter>Technically SSD should do it too, but it uses a write cycle
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21:42<tjcarter>nickgaw: the erase time is spent to ensure the drive has suitably random garbage on it
21:43<tjcarter>if the drive was already encrypted once before, that'll suffice.
21:43<nickgaw>It is a spinning hard drive so I am not wanting to wait forever for the erasing to happen what should I do to still encrypt but skip the wait time as I usually run the installer at low priority anyway?
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21:45<tjcarter>the problem with setting up LUKS is that if you had a neat, orderly drive and start writing encrypted data to it (without the erasure), you have part of the disk containing obviously encrypted files and metadata (the latter being predictable enough to assist in cracking at least theoretically), and you can see it right there in front of you. Erasure makes it a lot harder to figure out
21:45<tjcarter>where the data is precisely.
21:45<tjcarter>but if you did it once before, the data's pretty well scrambled, you can skip the erase.
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21:47<nickgaw>What I want to do is to encrypt my two partitions or one of them and don't care about any traces of any old data as this is my personal laptop so would a reinstallation be needed and how do I tell the installer not to do the erasing process so I can just get the system installed with encryption?
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21:48<mooff>nickgaw: it looks like the "Cancel" button during the wipe would be more accurately labelled "Skip"...
21:48<mooff>(2008) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/188085
21:48<mooff>(2016) https://superuser.com/questions/641487/speeding-up-encryption-during-debian-install#comment1561613_641501
21:49<tjcarter>FWIW, I've done just a little bit of careful LUKS/LVM installations/migrations over the past year and a half. When I installed chiyo in 2018 (chiyo was a Hackintosh when I decided to Bruce Perens Quit all things Apple), I set it up as a standard LVM on LUKS install with separate /home and unencrypted /boot.
21:50<nickgaw>I am using the text installer and not the GUI installation so would that question and answer help me out?
21:50<nickgaw>and why are bugs filed against the debian-installer not getting fixed in a timely mannor?
21:52<tjcarter>In June 2020 I reinstalled that system as Mint 20. Mint's installer could not handle LVM on LUKS anymore and I didn't feel like spending days restoring a backup if I didn't need to, so I did the installation's boot management kinda by hand. I later moved chiyo's /home filesystem to new hardware on aki which meant doing the installation again. And then when I decided I was sick of
21:52<tjcarter>Ubuntu's Ubuntuness and what it had done to make Mint less useful, I ended up not sure how to move 26 of aki's 30 TB back to Debian … I installed Debian again on this machine a week before bullseye dropped using debootstrap.
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21:53<tjcarter>I think there is a tool in Debian to make doing an install via debootstrap a thing that's kinda "properly managed", but I just … did it.
21:54<tjcarter>as in edit a bunch of stuff in /etc, create a fstab and a cryptab, shove some debconf stuff into the database, install grub, and reboot and hope for the best.
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21:55<tjcarter>(Also I decided to do this insanity a few hours before I needed aki to be ready for my work shift.)
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21:56<tjcarter>Converting and reinstalling and keeping whatever setup you want to is TOTALLY doable, if you're careful and just a little crazy. 😁
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21:58<tjcarter>(moving a firefox profile was the hard part because of the version differences.)
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22:01<mooff>nickgaw: you should champion it with a new bug report to the Debian bug tracker
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22:02<Sqrt{not}>nickgaw, what would you consider "timely" ?
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22:04<nickgaw>Well I reported a bug about four months ago about low priority installs failing on the user pam profile and never got any updates to it yet? I would have expected something in a few weeks or so for a fix?
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22:05<sarnold>it'd be up to the priorities / time / availability of the maintainer, combined with the priorities of trying to get a new release out the door
22:05<nickgaw>So it is not that no one has seen my bug then right?
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22:07<nickgaw>So would filing a bug on the debian-installer about speeding up the encryption process be one way to get this issue looked into and do fixes ever get sent to older versions like oldstable?
22:07<sarnold>nickgaw: well, that's a possibility too
22:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 994] by debhelper
22:08<whistleblower>I come to say that OFTC has done a stupendous work in Debian. Just ignore those who don't wean from the paranoid motto
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22:09<nickgaw>Once a bug report is created there is no way to have an administrator manually edit the bug in the database to fix issues with the initial report?
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22:10<sarnold>nickgaw: hmm, double-check your email? I don't see anything here that looks like it was filed by something related-ish to 'nickgaw' https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=pam;dist=unstable
22:11<sarnold>nickgaw: oh maybe I'm holding the bugs system the wrong way around.. I was checking a binary package, not a source package :(
22:11<sarnold>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?archive=0;dist=unstable;ordering=normal;repeatmerged=0;src=pam
22:11<tuxd3v>hello guys,
22:11<tuxd3v>I am around systemd yet :)
22:12<tuxd3v>~$ pkg-config systemd --variable=systemduserunitdir;pkg-config systemd --variable=systemdsystemunitdir
22:12<tuxd3v>/usr/lib/systemd/user
22:12<tuxd3v>/lib/systemd/system
22:12<nickgaw>I filed the bug against the debian-installer.
22:12<tuxd3v>is this normal?
22:12<tuxd3v>I mean shouldn't both be in /usr/lib/systemd/ ?
22:13<tuxd3v>/usr/lib/systemd/{user,system} ?
22:13<sarnold>nickgaw: ahhhhhh
22:14<sarnold>nickgaw: I'm headed out, time to eat :D
22:14<sarnold>nickgaw: check through https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?archive=0;dist=unstable;ordering=normal;repeatmerged=0;src=debian-installer and see if it's there, filed, etc?
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22:16<nickgaw>I think it was filed against stable bug 986491 is my bug number.
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22:18<mooff>a solution to that is above my pay grade, but if you have any more information or a proposed fix, send a reply to it by clicking on the link here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=986491
22:18<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/986491 in debian-installer (open, a11y, d-i): «fails to fully configure with debconf low priority»; severity: important; opened: 2021-04-06; last modified: 2021-04-06.
22:19<nickgaw>Can videos or audio demos be attached to a bug report so it can be seen in action?
22:19<mooff>there are only so many volunteers working on a given part of the system, even if it's debian-installer
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22:20<mooff>it should be possible to link to a video. the system is based on email. i don't know if a video attachment would work
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22:21<nickgaw>What about making a recording like a mp4 file and putting it somewhere does Debian have spaces to upload things like this to?
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22:23<mooff>i don't think so...
22:23<nickgaw>Could I use something like Zoom cloud meetings or Dropbox and link to it there?
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22:24<nickgaw>I would send logs but when the installer fails at the choose pam profiles to enable I can not save those logs.
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22:28<mooff>a public Dropbox link should work, yes
22:28<nickgaw>Would making a video of the problem help at all where someone could see this feature or bug in action?
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22:29<mooff>i think maybe a description of -why- you do low priority installs in that way would be equally helpful
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22:29<mooff>to make it less esoteric
22:29<nickgaw>Is there also a way to change the bug from stable to unstable so it might get seen by more developers or is it looking fine the way it is now?
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22:30<whistleblower>I prefer to keep my nationality hidden. There's a lot of prejudice these days. The proposal of a universal and free and very beautiful system. I dare just suggest not to worry too much about LUKS. After all, the truth that can't be disclosed can be polluted with many crimes.
22:31<mooff>it's fine how it is now, there is one bucket per package and versions it affects may be listed in the bug description, if necessary
22:31<nickgaw>Can I just reply to the e-mail message I got when the bug was created or how do I add other comments to the report?
22:31<mooff>you certainly can
22:31<Sqrt{not}>nickgaw, see https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS
22:31<nickgaw>Would asking the question if they want a demonstration of this bug help?
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22:33<mooff>no - provide a video or do not, i would say
22:33<nickgaw>In the future should bugs against the debian-installer be filed against unstable or is stable ok if that is what I am running and if I need to file against unstable is there a way to reclassify the bug?
22:34<mooff>take a look at how the report ends up, nickgaw: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=986491
22:34<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/986491 in debian-installer (open, a11y, d-i): «fails to fully configure with debconf low priority»; severity: important; opened: 2021-04-06; last modified: 2021-04-06.
22:34<mooff>in the end, there is simply one mailbox per package, which is forwarded to maintainers and published online at bugs.debian.org
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22:37<nickgaw>Understandable but it still looks like not much has been done so giving the description would possibly move things along right?
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22:37<mooff>exactly
22:38<nickgaw>Can I ask questions in the bug report like would publishing a video help with fixing it?
22:38<mooff>again a short description of why you do installs that way might be helpful
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22:38<nickgaw>So you don't think a demonstration would be needed right?
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22:40<mooff>i don't know enough about it
22:41<nickgaw>Do you work on the debian-installer?
22:41<mooff>no, i just chat here on IRC
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22:42<mooff>you can treat the reply you got from the original report like a public email thread with the maintainer on the issue
22:42<mooff>so if you would like to ask if a video would be helpful, just ask
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22:44<nickgaw>I will explain more about that in my reply to the message is that the best thing to do?
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22:45<mooff>yes
22:45<mooff>:-)
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22:55<whistleblower>by Allaah I testify here I am very rich, and fearful the laws of Allaah. I ask open heart, it is possible to invade my homebanking with Debian by a very skilled hacker
22:56<whistleblower>I'm a Debian supporter
22:57<whistleblower>But I'm very afraid of my safety
22:57<sussudio>go away marwan, you're pathetic.
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23:26<tjcarter>sussudio: think marwan was lostgal too? The IP somiaj banned wasn't his tor MO, but it could just as easily been a proxy bot, and it seems to be about marwan's skill/boredom level.
23:26<whistleblower>The childrens of Allah throughout their life journey may change their characteristic of moral values.
23:26<tjcarter>lostgal was similarly pathetic at least
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23:30<whistleblower>I only do financial transactions in the bank.
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23:32<sussudio>tjcarter: brazilians can be assholes on their own too.
23:33<aloo_shu>wondrous the amount of knowledge and expertise united in this channel
23:33<tjcarter>sure, but anyone can be Brazilian if they know how to follow a guide written for wannabe h4x0rz with no actual talent or skill
23:34<sussudio>why would anyone outside brazil want to be a brazilian
23:34<tjcarter>SMS games, duh.
23:35<whistleblower>ok I admit, I go into paranoid panic if I am going to make online transaction
23:36<tjcarter>also I understand the portions of Brazil that include beaches are rather fun for those who aren't photosensitive.
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23:38<sussudio>bought a 128GB usb stick. says requirements: windows 10. nice try, microsoft...
23:39<tjcarter>!ops I'd say racial stereotype trolling, but marwan's too ignorant to know the stereotype's he's trying to mock
23:39<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: tjcarter complains about a problem (see above)
23:42<sussudio>there's about 2000 tor exit nodes
23:43-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
23:44<sussudio>thought there would be more... this puts people using tor for torrent traffic in perspective.
23:44-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@8L3AAELRU.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] by themill
23:45<tjcarter>thanks themill
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23:46-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
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23:50<tjcarter>sussudio: I don't know why anyone would bother using tor for torrents … pretty inefficient. A basic VPN would do as well.
23:51<sussudio>tjcarter: probably laziness or stupidity if they already have a tor proxy installed. or malice, to disrupt tor by using all the bandwith.
23:51<tjcarter>never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity
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23:55<sussudio>guess who's back
23:57-!-user_ [~user@0BGAAD0J9.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
23:57<tjcarter>technically he hasn't actually left yet
23:58-!-whistleblower [~whistlebl@8L3AAELRU.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:58<tjcarter>🤣
23:59<tjcarter>If he becomes too much of a pest, connections from tor could be turned off for a little while.
---Logclosed Sat Sep 04 00:00:23 2021