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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-04

---Logopened Sat Sep 04 00:00:23 2021
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00:25<tuxd3v>sussudio, if a unit has a requires=, if that unit gets activated, the requirements also activate, if not already... so 'requirements: windows 10' is a big problem for systemd
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00:28<mooff>that's some lateral thinking there, tuxd3v 😅
00:31<tuxd3v>mooff, hehehe
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00:32<sussudio>i just plugged it into an old pc running xp and it mounts just fine.
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00:40<tjcarter>tuxd3v: then again, if you don't feel like paying the license fees, requires=windows10 should let you change your desktop wallpaper.
00:42<sussudio>i read earlier that windows 11 will set your wallpaper to ads or something.
00:43<sussudio>why anyone would tolerate that...
00:43<tjcarter>I sort of expect it to do that whether activated or not
00:43<tuxd3v>windows 11 will start you :D
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00:55<crawler>Do I have to reload apache after replacing SSL certificate with a renewed one?
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01:01<arvind>hey,can someone suggest me a bluetooth dongle which supports debbie which i can use to connect my bluetooth headphone in my desktop
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01:03<mooff>yes, crawler
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01:03<crawler>mooff reload is enough or a restart?
01:03<anon8947>It's pretty neat that Guix was added to the repos.
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01:08<mooff>crawler, reload should be enough
01:08<mooff>don't forget about other services that may rely on the cert
01:08<crawler>thank you
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01:49<aduialthin[m]>I know in gnome-terminal (v3.38.3) I can change encoding in profile > compatibility > Encoding. However, this will change all encoding for the following sessions (a new gnome-terminal launched will also use that encoding). But my use case is all the sessions will use en_US.UTF8 except that specific ssh connection. I tried with LANG=<specific encoding I need> ssh But that gnome terminal still uses en_US.UTF-8. export
01:49<aduialthin[m]>LANG=... and then ssh also result the same.
01:49<aduialthin[m]>So my question: how can I switch encoding for only a single session, instead of all in command prompt? Thanks
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01:52<AG46>Good afternoon :) I'm after some assistance. I use 'screen' to run multiple programs. I want one of those programs to display images on the console screen. I have this running quite happily on Jessie, with Buster i am having no joy. I think I need to bind the console screen to a nominated application, can anyone assist please ?
01:52<mooff>aduialthin[m]: create a new Gnome Terminal profile just for that purpose
01:54<mooff>you can use the dropdown on the (+) new tab button in the top left to use it, or change the profile of an existing window from the right click menu on the buffer
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01:55<aduialthin[m]>ah ok. one more question. is it possible to switch between profiles with command line?
01:55<mooff>yeap. from 'man gnome-terminal', there is the --profile option
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01:56<aduialthin[m]>great thanks!
01:56<tjcarter>arand: did you get a recommendation for one?
01:57<tjcarter>sorry arvind_
01:57<tjcarter>check out ‎ASIN:B007Q45EF4
01:58<tjcarter>More expensive than the average CSR 4.0 dongle, but has the advantage of plugging it into USB 3 ports won't cause it to have frequent disconnections.
01:58<tjcarter>Those cheaper ones want a USB 2.0 port. This one doesn't care.
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03:08<qohfyrvsknxm>crawler, Sqrt{not}, tjcarter, mooff, judd, feiqu, petn-randall, somiaj > sorry, I completely forgot to thank you all for your help! The problem was solved only by installing v418. 113 from the official website, it turned out that the problem was in the drivers themselves, which are directly located in the distribution repositories :(
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03:08<crawler>no problem :D
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03:11<qohfyrvsknxm>>>> but today I already ran away to Arch, I decided to stop being afraid of problems and on the contrary go to meet them xD
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03:27<AG46> Good afternoon :) I'm after some assistance. I use 'screen' to run multiple programs. I want one of those programs to display images on the console screen. I have this running quite happily on Jessie, with Buster i am having no joy. I think I need to bind the console screen to a nominated application, can anyone assist please ?
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05:04<FelixActually>How do I save Bash aliases? I think I need a file in my home folder called .bash_aliases, right? But what do I need to put in it?
05:05<grawity>exactly the same bash commands as you'd use in the shell normally
05:05<grawity>e.g. alias this="that --option"
05:06<FelixActually>Do I need quotes if the alias has spaces?
05:06<FelixActually>Okay; thanks
05:06<grawity>.bash_aliases is really loaded like a bash script, it doesn't have its own separate syntax
05:07<FelixActually>Biut it doesn't need that bin/bash thing or whatever at the start?
05:07<FelixActually>Is that just for sh files?
05:07<grawity>no -- it's for scripts that are run in their own process
05:07<FelixActually>What do you mean?
05:07<grawity>whereas ~/.bashrc, and from there ~/.bash_aliases, are "sourced" -- loaded within the same bash process as your main shell
05:07<FelixActually>Oh, okay
05:08<grawity>(which is needed so that they can actually *affect* the shell, e.g. add aliases)
05:09<grawity>normally if you run e.g. "./myscript" or "~/bin/myscript", that would run it in a completely separate process (e.g. if it had "#!/bin/bash" at the top, it would get a new /bin/bash started for it)
05:10<FelixActually>Oh, I thought that was just a thing which tells the computer the file is a Bash script
05:10<FelixActually>Also I think I did this wrong since it says "command not found"
05:10<FelixActually>is alias "cd.."="cd .." correct?
05:11<FelixActually>Wait a minute
05:11<FelixActually>I'm just stupid apparently
05:11<FelixActually>I did "ls.." instead of "cd.." in the terminal...
05:11<FelixActually>Good grief
05:11<grawity>#!/bin/bash *is* a thing that tells the computer the file is a Bash script
05:11<grawity>but when bash itself is loading .bash_aliases, it already knows that
05:12<FelixActually>I see
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05:15<FelixActually>That's weird. I aliased ls to ls -h -l -A and it doesn't display in colour. I have to add --color=always for that to work
05:15<FelixActually>When I did it without the alias it displayed in colour by default
05:16<grid>8ls is aliased to --color=auto by default
05:16<grawity>I suspect your ls was *already* an alias to 'ls --color=auto'
05:16<grawity>run `type ls` to check what it is at the moment
05:17<FelixActually>Yeah, you were right
05:17<FelixActually>But it says in the man page that auto is the default
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05:19<another>read again
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05:20<FelixActually>It says that always is the default if omitted actually
05:20<FelixActually>But that still implies there should be colour by default
05:22<FelixActually>But at the bottom it says it's disabled by default
05:23<FelixActually>So the man page is contradictory?
05:24<another>read again
05:25<grawity>"auto" is the default value if you *just* use --color
05:25<FelixActually>Oh, okay
05:26<grawity>but if you don't specify --color at all, then the global default for ls is to not use colors
05:26<FelixActually>That was a lot more helpful than another just repeating what they already said
05:26<another>grawity: you too, should read again
05:26<another>"WHEN can be 'always' (default if omitted)"
05:27<grawity>another: see, that wasn't so hard! you too can be helpful and point out mistakes instead of whacking people in the head
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05:29<grawity>thanks for actually pointing this out though
05:29<another>Yeah, that was a weak attempt of teaching people to actually read. Carefully. Sorry, could've been more helpful
05:29<FelixActually>I did read what it said, but I thought "default if omitted" meant "if the command is omitted entirely, this is the default"
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05:31<FelixActually>Wouldn't it be better if it said "If the option is passed without a value, the default is always"?
05:32<grawity>dunno, I'd have written "(default if the value is omitted)"
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05:33<another>that's what it says. maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension skills
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05:33<grawity>maybe you need to work on not being an arse
05:33<FelixActually>It doesn't say "value"
05:33<FelixActually>It only says "default if omitted"
05:33<grawity>tbh one more issue is that ls is a GNU coreutils program, and GNU really likes their *info* pages -- there's a lot more detail in `info ls` than in `man ls`, which -- it feels like -- they *deliberately* keep terse and not very usefil
05:34<grawity>e.g. the info page says "Specifying ‘--color’ and no WHEN is equivalent to ‘--color=always’."
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05:34<FelixActually>Is info not installed by default?
05:35<FelixActually>I get command not found
05:35<grawity>on debian, probably not?
05:35<grawity>there's a link to an online version at the bottom of the manpage though
05:35<FelixActually>apt show info says "it is most likely you will want to install it"
05:36<FelixActually>So it not being installed by default is a bit odd
05:36<FelixActually>Especially when it's so tiny
05:37<azeem>yeah a bit surprising
05:37<azeem>but then, info pages never really caught on
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05:40<xobtah>Hello, I have an issue with my bluetooth headset since I upgraded to Deb11, when idle after a couple of minutes, the headset disconnects, for it to be connected I have to put music all the time. Is that a known issue ?
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05:50<mozambique>|Complete Nick = mozambique makumba waterproof downtown sistemas subsahara caju |
05:50<mozambique>| Iam hiring a hacker in Lisboa area to work in ubuntu, redhat, and 6.0 |
05:50<mozambique>| Need a budget/orçamento, have problem in sound, and rekordbox pionner dj-400; |
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05:53<FelixActually>xobtah: Is there a setting in your desktop environment for Bluetooth timeout?
05:54<xobtah>Not as far as I know, at least I didn't do anything, and on Deb11 upgrade I replaced every file that had merge conflicts by the fresh new ones
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05:55<FelixActually>What desktop environment are you using?
05:56<FelixActually>Can you check the Bluetooth settings?
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05:57<xobtah>Is it on Settings > Bluetooth > My headset ? If yes there is not much info there, just a button to "Sound Settings"
05:57<FelixActually>Try just the Bluetooth settings themselves
05:58<xobtah>Are they in a config file ? Because on the Settings windows there is not much info as well, just the list of pairable devices
05:59<FelixActually>I'm not sure
05:59<xobtah>/etc/bluetooth/main.conf maybe ?
06:00<FelixActually>I don't really know about these things
06:00<xobtah>Everything in this file is commented out aside from "[Policy] AutoEnable=true" which doesn't seem to be connected to this issue
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06:01<FelixActually>Is there anything commented-out that could be related?
06:02<xobtah>No, everything is commented
06:02<xobtah>However I have someting interesting from journalctl
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06:03<xobtah>I'm not sure if I can copy/paste several lines in an IRC channel, sorry in advance
06:04<FelixActually>More than three will disconnect you automatically
06:04<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
06:04<FelixActually>Put it on and send the link here
06:07<xobtah>"gdm-x-session" that removes the headset
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06:19<nickel>guys, kitty terminal in bullseye repo checks updates
06:19<nickel>it notified me that there is a update
06:20<nickel>what do you say?!
06:21<FelixActually>sudo apt upgrade
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06:24<nickel>FelixActually: dude, i mean the software itself checks updates
06:25<nickel>and notifies toy
06:25<FelixActually>Is that a problem?
06:25<grawity>are you sure it's kitty and not stuff from /etc/profile that happens to be running inside kitty
06:26<nickel>grawity: it is kitty. there is a config to disable update checking
06:26<nickel>FelixActually: yes. it is unnecesarry and pricaxy invasion
06:27<FelixActually>Well since there's a way to disable it, use that
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06:27<another>nickel: so you're saying debian should have a different default here?
06:27<nickel>FelixActually: you're a genius
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06:28<nickel>another: yes
06:28<FelixActually>Why not say that then?
06:28<FelixActually>I didn't know what you were wanting because you didn't say
06:28<another>nickel: hmm.. you should probably open a bug about it then
06:29<nickel>another: i mean, it is unnecessary because we can't update it anyways
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07:12<Guest6286>setting up a boot and virus removal
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08:39<roryprice>hey everyone. I have a problem and no idea what to do. I recently got rid of a pihole, and ever since then, I've had nothing but trouble connecting to the internet. When I type in host (address here), it works. I tried to ping though, and it does not. Honestly, I'm confused, frustrated, and have no idea how to diagnose of fix this.
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08:39<roryprice>I should mention that I'm a complete newbie when it comes to networking, so all I want is to restore whatever the default is
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08:41<roryprice>everything works fine on every computer except my main one, running Debian Bullseye. All my connections are wired via ethernet.
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08:48<roryprice>I can connect to my router just fine and can ping that computer from within the network. Just no internet access
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09:43<tepozoa>hmmmmm, it almost sounds like you have a route set up directing your traffic to some other default
09:43<tepozoa>type "ip a" and "ip r" and put both outputs into
09:44<tepozoa>(I realize the difficulty in doing that)
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09:47<tepozoa> <- "well formed" example of what we're looking for. In this example, my wifi (wlp3s0) has IP on the /24 (size) network, and the default route is set to the router
09:47<tepozoa>what you're looking for is some sort of mis-match in where your IP is and where the default route is going
09:48<roryprice>ok, hold on, getting the paste
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09:49<tepozoa>I get a not found on that paste ID
09:50<roryprice>sorry, trying to copy manually
09:50<tepozoa>that route sure looks pretty darn vanilla
09:51<tepozoa>you wired IP is and your router is
09:51<roryprice>I don't know. I'll be honest with you, this stuff is way beyond my skill level and I'm stumbling in the dark here.
09:51<tepozoa>nah it's OK!
09:51<roryprice>sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
09:51<tepozoa>your Debian *looks* normal
09:52<tepozoa>you have an IP in the right subnet going to the right router by default
09:52<roryprice>problem is, whenever I start my vpn, everything breaks
09:52<tepozoa>ok so hold on
09:52<roryprice>I have a vpn service with airvpn
09:52<roryprice>as it stands now, nothing works
09:52<tepozoa>with the config you just showed, WITHOUT vpn, can you ping or whatever
09:53<tepozoa>you can't just random ass throw VPN into the mix
09:53<roryprice>it works
09:53<tepozoa>OK so without VPN, resolves and you can use it
09:53<roryprice>vpn is currently off, but the final objective is for it to work
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09:54<tepozoa>yeah NOW I get that
09:54<roryprice>I'm not able to open it in a browser though
09:55<tepozoa>can you do something like "dig @"
09:55<tepozoa>(that tries to connect to the DNS port 53 at and get the IP address of -- the point is to prove "is DNS actually working?"
09:56<roryprice>here's the output
09:56<tepozoa>so far so good - you have some sort of outbound connection possible, so your route is OK
09:57<tepozoa>do you have curl installed (ow wget) - can you do "curl" and it not hang?
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09:57<roryprice>currently hanging on "resolving"
09:57<roryprice>unable to resolve
09:58<Tj>tepozoa: it'd be good to get the content (and whether it is a symlink) or /etc/resolv.conf at this point - if pihole was previsouly used there may be a manual DNS override
09:58<tepozoa>do "cat /etc/resolv.conf"
09:58<tepozoa>or "resolvevtl status"
09:58<tepozoa>"resolvectl status"
09:58<tepozoa>it now sounds like you have DNS server configred on your machine still trying to reach the old pihole
09:59<roryprice>could be, as the pihole is how all the trouble started
09:59<tepozoa>(that's the old paste)
09:59<roryprice>sorry, using two keyboards is messing with my head, lol
10:00<tepozoa>yeah do "resolvectl status" now
10:01<tepozoa>(the above paste is basically saying "hey, yeah I'm forwarding DNS stuff over to systemd, go ask it for the info")
10:01<tepozoa>Current DNS Server:
10:01<tepozoa>so your workstation DNS is set to the old pihole network
10:02<roryprice>that address means nothing to me. The pihole address was
10:02<tepozoa>what network config tool do you use (is this a server, desktop, etc. - how do you add networks, GUI?)
10:02<roryprice>desktop, I use the basic xfce network manager
10:04<Tj>roryprice: as a temporary measure to give that system name resolution do "sudo resolvectl dns ens1"
10:04<tepozoa>so your problem: your computer is on the network ( but your network config is somehow set to sent DNS queries to another network ( -
10:05<tepozoa>your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to dig through all your settings and find out where 192.168.2.* is being configured, and undo that and get your DNS back to 192.168.1.*
10:05<roryprice>tj: it worked
10:05<roryprice>where should I start?
10:05<Tj>roryprice: good, so that'll help you to resolve this permanently
10:05<roryprice>I have literally never seen before
10:06<roryprice>it's in none of the network manager tabs, so the easy part's out
10:06<another>networkmanager, systemd-resolved
10:06<Tj>roryprice: what does this report? "systemctl status NetworkManager connman systemd-networkd | nc 9999"
10:07<Tj>roryprice: also, are you SSH-ed into the problem PC from another, or manually relaying info? if the latter, you should be able to get on IRC directly from the problem PC now
10:07<roryprice>no, I'm copying stuff manually
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10:08<Tj>roryprice: so now you can get on IRC from the PC itself and make the remaining steps much easier
10:08<Roranicus>ok, that's me
10:09<Roranicus>Unit connman.service could not be found.
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10:09<Roranicus>that's the output of the command
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10:13<roryprice1>here, easier this way
10:13<Tj>roryprice1: thanks
10:13<Tj>roryprice1: so the system is using NetworkManager, so now lets find out how it configured the interface
10:14<roryprice1>So yeah, any other files I should look into? I know about resolv.conf, but that's it
10:15<Tj>firstly, does it have pastebinit installed? "sudo apt install pastebinit" if not
10:15<Tj>(makes it easier to collect info)
10:15<Tj>OK, "pastebinit <( nmcli con show --active )"
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10:16<Tj>roryprice1: "pastebinit <( nmcli con show 'Wired connection 1' )"
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10:18<roryprice1>I see it in there
10:18<Tj>yes but "DHCP4.OPTION[5]: domain_name_servers ="
10:19<roryprice1>so does that mean we found the culprit?
10:19<Tj>That tells us your router is sending those addresses to your PC
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10:19<roryprice1>weird, as I've never seen them before
10:20<roryprice1>and it works fine on other computers plugged in to the same router
10:20<Tj>well, it is vaguely possible you've somehow got two DHCP servers on your network but that's more of a long-shot.
10:21<Tj>but now we know let's grab the network log itself
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10:21<Tj>roryprice1: "pastebinit <( journalctl -u NetworkManager --since='yesterday' ) "
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10:23<roryprice1>nothing in there
10:23<roryprice1>Hint: You are currently not seeing messages from other users and the system.
10:23<roryprice1> Users in groups 'adm', 'systemd-journal' can see all messages.
10:23<roryprice1> Pass -q to turn off this notice.
10:23<roryprice1>got this, dunno if it's relevant
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10:24<Tj>grrr @ debchange
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10:24<Tj>roryprice1: your $USER needs to be a member of the 'adm' group or you need to use 'sudo': "pastebinit <( sudo journalctl -u NetworkManager --since='yesterday' ) "
10:24<tepozoa>just get the mac of what your Debian PC thinks is the router (arp -n | grep -F and see if that's the same mac as a working PC to know if it's the same DHCP server
10:25<roryprice1>I'm seeing the same error when I use sudo
10:26<Tj>roryprice1: then your $USER isn't in the 'sudo' group either?
10:26<roryprice1>no, I'm in the sudo group
10:26<tepozoa>just do what I said and stop fighting
10:27<Tj>tepozoa: that won't help; there's no doubt about the router, the issue is whether there are 2 DHCP servers
10:27<Tj>roryprice1: does "groups $USER" confirm your current $USER is a member of 'sudo' ?
10:27<roryprice1>says "unable to read from /dev/fd/63" when I use sudo
10:28<roryprice1>Sudo isn't in the list, but I do use it all the time.
10:28<Tj>roryprice1: then your suer isn't a member of the 'sudo' group
10:29<roryprice1>which is weird, because I know it is.
10:29<Tj>roryprice1: and that explains those error messages and not being able to read the system logs
10:29<roryprice1>yeah, I just used a sudo command right now, and it worked.
10:29<Tj>roryprice1: how about "getent group sudo" does it list your $USER ?
10:29<another>get a root shell `sudo -i`
10:29<roryprice1>weird, it doesn't
10:30<roryprice1>okay, I'm confused
10:30<another>and the group is usually `wheel`
10:30<Tj>no, it isn't 'wheel'
10:30<Tj>that's a RedHat-ism :)
10:31<another>is it not on debian? ok
10:31<Tj>roryprice1: are you able to do "sudo -i" and become 'root' now?
10:31<Tj>roryprice1: ok, do that, then try sending the log!
10:32<Tj>roryprice1: "pastebinit <( journalctl -u NetworkManager --since='yesterday' ) "
10:32<Tj>roryprice1: but note: FIXME: something wrong with sudo membership!
10:32<roryprice1>it just gave me a generic link, no document
10:32<Tj>roryprice1: there's something not quite right on that system; a generic link generally means no data was sent to the apstebin
10:33<Tj>roryprice1: combined with these DNS changes I feel like something /custom/ has been done to it
10:33<roryprice1>I could have done something by mistake
10:33<Tj>roryprice1: what does "id" report ?
10:34<roryprice1>uid=1001(RoryPrice) gid=1001(RoryPrice) groups=1001(RoryPrice),44(video),46(plugdev),131(vboxusers),998(smbgroup)
10:34<Tj>there you go, you're no the initial user and therefore no in sudo/adm groups
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10:34<roryprice1>this is weird, as I'm the only person who uses this computer
10:34<Tj>first user on install is added to sudo/adm .. any later additions need adding manually
10:35<Tj>roryprice1: "getent passwd 1000"
10:35<Tj>1000 is the user id used for the first user
10:36<roryprice1>roranicus was my user from a previous installation
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10:36<Tj>roryprice1: and I'll bet "id roranicus" shows it to be a member of sudo/adm
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10:36<roryprice1>uid=1000(roranicus) gid=1000(roranicus) groups=1000(roranicus),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),108(netdev),113(lpadmin),117(scanner)
10:38<Tj>roryprice1: wow, not in sudo/adm either; definitely some breakage there. Doesn't give us an easy way to fix that either, and we'll need those evalation rights if some kinds of fix are required
10:38<roryprice1>but is it normal that I can still use sudo commands?
10:38<Tj>roryprice1: "getent group sudo" and "getent group adm" - do either of those show any user accounts as members
10:39<Tj>roryprice1: well so far I've not seen evidence you can use sudo - errors all the time
10:39<roryprice1>sudo apt-get update works fine
10:39<roryprice1>none of them show any members
10:40<Tj>roryprice1: possibly you've some customisation in /etc/sudoers and/or /etc/sudoers.d/ to avoid needing to enter a password then
10:40<roryprice1>I do need to enter a password
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10:41<Tj>roryprice1: then there's something extremely non-standard (broken?) about how that system is currently configured. I cannot imagine you're using an external LDAP server for authentication, for example
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10:41<roryprice1>I don't even know what that is, so no, lol
10:41<Tj>roryprice1: all this points to an underlying cause of the DNS issue since it all infers unusual customisations
10:42<roryprice1>thing is, I never played around with any of this
10:42<Tj>roryprice1: when you do "sudo -i" do you enter a root shell, and does "id" report you're uid/gid is 0 ?
10:42<Tj>e.g. "uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root)"
10:42<roryprice1>that's exactly what I get, yes
10:44<Tj>so can you then add your user to the required groups? "adduser RoryPrice sudo"
10:44<Tj>if that returns without error we'll do it again for 'adm' group
10:44<Tj>then do "groups RoryPrice" and ensure both sudo and adm are shown
10:44<roryprice1>they are
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10:45<Tj>good; you'll need to 'exit' from this root shell, then log-out your current user session and then log-in again so your user session gets those groups... do that, then lets resume the hunt!
10:45<roryprice1>ok, brb
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10:47<Roranicus>says "unable to read from /dev/fd/63" when typing the command.
10:47<Tj>I've built hundreds of bullseye images and never seen this situation; sudo especially is extremely weird
10:47<Roranicus>Dunno what to say. All I've ever done is follow the installation guides to the letter.
10:47<Roranicus>As I'm sure you can tell, I am not an advanced user and I don't mess with random configurations.
10:48<Tj>Roranicus: that error report is definitely not expected and points to an underlying core issue
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10:49<Tj>roryprice1: what does "echo $SHELL" report?
10:49<another>sudo bash -c "..."
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10:50<roryprice1>bash: line 1: ...: command not found
10:50<Tj>roryprice1: that is definitely not correct
10:50<another>alternatively use sudo on the process substitution
10:51<Tj>roryprice1: what does "getent passwd RoryPrice" report?
10:51<Tj>aha! you've no shell set,this is definitely broken!
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10:52<Tj>you'd expect something like "tj:x:1000:1000:Tj,,,:/home/tj:/bin/bash"
10:52<roryprice1>I'm not sure I understand
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10:52<Tj>roryprice1: afer the last : should be the user's shell
10:52<roryprice1>okay, is there a way to fix this?
10:53<Tj>roryprice1: There are several ways but first we'd need to know what the cause is
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10:53<Tj>roryprice1: "pastebinit /etc/shells"
10:54<Sqrt{not}>roryprice1, what do you get from: cat /etc/os-release | grep -i pretty
10:54<Tj>roryprice1: when no user shell is set, the system uses the default shell, which is usually minimal
10:54<roryprice1>PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)"
10:55<Sqrt{not}>OK :)
10:55<Tj>"/bin/sash" <---- definitely not standard
10:56<Tj>roryprice1: "sudo -i" make sure you're root, then "usermod --shell /bin/bash RoryPrice"
10:56<Tj>roryprice1: did you upgrade this install from an earlier Debian release?
10:56<roryprice1>I did
10:57<Tj>roryprice1: which release was it on previously?
10:57<roryprice1>I think it was stretch back when I initially installed
10:57<roryprice1>buster before now
10:57<roryprice1>I upgraded to bullseye pretty much on release day
10:57<Tj>roryprice1: so there's been a lot of time for customisations to accumulate
10:57<Tj>roryprice1: OK, so we know we're not dealing with a vanilla install
10:58<roryprice1>but I haven't skipped a release, if this is what you're asking
10:58<Tj>roryprice1: we're set your user to use the bash shell in future logins but right now, as "echo $SHELL" didn't report anything that tells us it isn't in use. So manually start one right now to correct things. "exit" from the root shell and then do "bash" and then check with "echo $SHELL"
10:59<Tj>roryprice1: no, I was more interested in how long this system has had to gather user customisations that change what we expect to see when diagnosing issues
10:59<roryprice1>echo $SHELL returns nothing
11:00<Tj>something is definitely wrong here
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11:00<Tj>I wonder if /bin/bash has actually been linked to a different shell, like sash
11:01<Tj>roryprice1: lets try this: " (which -a bash; ls -l /bin/bash; dpkg --verify bash ) | pastebinit "
11:02<Tj>roryprice1: that checks out good
11:03<Tj>roryprice1: let's put this aside for now and try to finish off gathering the network info first. "sudo -i" then "bash" totry to ensure we're using 'bash' then " journalctl -u NetworkManager --since='yesterday' | pastebinit "
11:04<roryprice1>again, empty link
11:07<Tj>roryprice1: I think journal is disabled here
11:07<roryprice1>what's journal?
11:08<Tj>roryprice1: long time since I needed to grab logs from a system not using it; check if there's what looks like a separate log file for network manager with "ls -latr /var/logs/" ... systemd-journald is the expected log daemon
11:08<roryprice1>no such file or directory
11:09<Tj>roryprice1: at this point I'd be inclined to back-up everything under /home/, grab a list of packages installed using 'debfoster --show-keepers' an fo a clean reinstall
11:09<Tj>roryprice1: that system is completely broken if there's no /var/log/ !!!
11:09<Sqrt{not}> /var/log/ not logs
11:09<Tj>Sqrt{not}: thanks :D:
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11:09<roryprice1>oh, here we go
11:09<Tj>"ls -latr /var/log/ "
11:09*Tj glares at dyslexic fingers
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11:10<roryprice1>need a paste of it?
11:10<Tj>roryprice1: that list shows most-recently-changed last, so those are files where you might expect logging to be done, possible syslog and/or daemon.log
11:10<Tj>roryprice1: please, it might help
11:13<roryprice1>Thanks for the help, btw. I will compensate you for your time if you have a paypal or something.
11:13<Tj>looking at that the required journald directory does exist. "drwxr-sr-x+ 3 root systemd-journal 4096 Aug 15 19:57 journal" - looks like you did the release upgrade on August 15th but systemd-journald is not enabled
11:13<roryprice1>so I should enable it?
11:13<Tj>roryprice1: not right now
11:14<Tj>the syslog is 8MB so rather too large for pastebin so we need to grab some lines from the end of it " tail -n 2000 /var/log/syslog | pastebinit "
11:15<roryprice1>empty link. should I run it as root?
11:15<Tj>this all doesn't add up! does "tail -n 2000 /var/log/syslog" show you output locally
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11:16<Tj>your user is now a member of 'adm' (we added it) so should have permissions to read that file
11:17<roryprice1>I tried to open it through the gui using pluma, and it says that it can't detect the character encoding.
11:17<Tj>roryprice1: GUI is often not great with such things; tries too hard :)
11:17<roryprice1>figured. Just trying stuff
11:17*Tj nods
11:18<roryprice1>I can open it with nano
11:18<Tj>if you can see the output of the tail command locally then the issue is in piping into pastebinit
11:19<Tj>I can't think of any reason the pipe would not pass tail's output to pastebinit
11:19<Tj>let's try an alternate: " tail -n 2000 /var/log/syslog | nc 9999 "
11:19<roryprice1>it worked manually
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11:23<Tj>not enough output to see back to when NetworkManager started and configured the wired interface. Try this " grep NetworkManager /var/log/syslog | nc 9999"
11:24<Tj>roryprice1: that's not it all, it misses anything after Aug 29th, which we know is there from the previous paste!
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11:25<roryprice1>Could something have affected logging somehow?
11:26<Tj>well we saw those entries in the file in the prevous paste so unless someone is switching log files on you in realtime!!!
11:26<roryprice1>I think august 29 is around the time I got rid of the pihole and the trouble started.
11:27<Tj>Everything happening is weird and unexpected; the system feels very broken to me
11:28<Tj>roryprice1: what does this report? " grep NetworkManager /var/log/syslog | wc -l "
11:28<roryprice1>grep: /var/log/syslog: binary file matches
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11:29<Tj>which is what the last termbin contains; so in a few seconds the log file apparently lost entries after 29th!?
11:30<roryprice1>if I try the first command again, I see Sept 4 lines
11:30<Tj>which command exactly?
11:30<roryprice1>tail -n 2000 /var/log/syslog
11:31<Tj>oh I /KNOW/ what has happened here!! The log is partially corrupted, contains binary data, possibly due to a forced shutdown and grep can't get past it normall!! Right! " grep -a NetworkManager /var/log/syslog | nc 9999 "
11:32<Tj>(the -a tells grep to treat the file as ASCII text)
11:32*Tj was expecting to have a relaxing weekend without brain strain!
11:33<roryprice1>grep -a NetworkManager /var/log/syslog | nc 9999
11:33<roryprice1>oops, sorry
11:33*Tj pretends to be a shell and starts spewing log lines :D
11:33<roryprice1>here we go
11:33<Tj>ahhhh, at last daaaataaa!
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11:36<mooff>all aboard the brain strain train 🚂💨
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11:36<Tj>OK, we see in there recently "dhcp4 (ens1): state changed unknown -> bound, address=" ... usually NM logs DNS valuse too but I don't see it there; so either NM is configured with minimal log output or the connection is set to "DHCP (Addresses only)" and something else on the system is setting the DNS servers 192.168.2.*
11:37<roryprice1>I just checked in the gui, and under ipv4 setting, it's set to Automatic(DCHP)
11:37<Tj>roryprice1: using the GUI, use the network icon in the taskbar to bring up its menu, then choose "edit connections..." and then choose your "Wired Connection 1" and there choose the "IPv4" tab and tell us what the "Method" is set to
11:38<Tj>aha you're ahead of me
11:38<roryprice1>yay, did something right :P
11:38<Tj>so the logging is less than expected then which takes us back to where we started; the DHCP server is handing out the wrong DNS server IP addresses
11:39<mooff>this was the culprit for someone with an identical issue the other day :)
11:39<Tj>so now let's pretend we are the DHCP client and request another lease ourselves and capture the log of what is sent to us and which DHCP server responds
11:39<mooff>dropped Pi Hole.. router still configured with it
11:39<Tj>mooff: really? any clues from that as to short-circuiting our diagnosis?
11:40<mooff>Tj: no - in each case, i think memory simply failed us
11:40<Tj>mooff: right; let's just prove it is coming from the router
11:40<mooff>sounds good
11:40<roryprice1>mooff: that was actually me. I thought I had it fixed
11:40<mooff>ah, roryprice1
11:40<Tj>roryprice1: check this program is installed: "sudo which dhclient"
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11:41<roryprice1> /sbin/dhclient
11:41<Tj>OK, we'll goto 'root' to do this to avoid any piping errors!
11:42<roryprice1>okay, I'm root
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11:42<Tj>roryprice1: "bash" then " dhclient -4 -d -v ens1 |& tee /tmp/dhcp.log "
11:43<Tj>roryprice1: once the lease has been assigned and the log stops scrolling do Ctrl+C to kill it
11:43<Tj>roryprice1: then send us the log file "pastebinit /tmp/dhcp.log"
11:44<another>`-n` would be useful, too
11:44<Tj>true, but blah!
11:45<Tj>I'm doing well not to make any typos
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11:45<Tj>although, thinking about it, this might have (via resolvconf) just knocked that PC from doing DNS again :D
11:46<roryprice>I'm back on my laptop, and yeah, got kicked
11:46<Tj>roryprice: sorry, my mistake!
11:46<roryprice>no worries
11:46<Tj>roryprice: fix it again with "resolvectl dns ens1"
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11:48<Tj>hmmm, no mention of the nameserver options there!
11:48<Tj>you did havethe "-v" verbose option there?
11:48<roryprice1>I don't know, lemme check
11:49<roryprice1>yup, I did
11:49<roryprice1>I can try again and wait longer?
11:49<mooff>try this: sudo fix-it --you f*cking --computer
11:50<Tj>roryprice1: seems like the system was given new nameservers since it lost DNS but for some reason (and I use dhclient like this frequently on Bullseye) there was no verbose report of the options being handed out
11:50<roryprice1>should we just give it something manually?
11:50<Tj>maybe it behaves diffferently for IPv5 vs IPv6
11:51<roryprice1>I have IPv6 currently disabled, I think.
11:51<Tj>roryprice1: but, whatever, this proves the issue is on your router's configuration not the PC
11:51<roryprice1>but then, why do other computers connected to the same router work fine?
11:52<Tj>roryprice1: the router is handing out the 2 nameservers, both are incorrect,so presumably are manually set, and need removing so the router only hands out it's own LAN-side IP as the nameserver
11:52<Tj>roryprice1: no idea! we don't know the router, or how it is configured
11:52<roryprice1>I think I'll just factory reset the damn thing
11:52<Tj>roryprice1: maybe it allows per-port VLANs with separate configurations
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11:53<Tj>roryprice1: what's the make/model of the router/gateway?
11:54<mooff>have you tried turning it off, then on again?
11:55<Tj>strangepart is it handing out 2 IPs. I suspect the first is supposed to be the router and the 2nd the pihole, but someone typed them incorrectly as 192.168.2. instead of 192.168.1.
11:56<Tj>which takes us back to "DHCP4.OPTION[5]: domain_name_servers ="
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12:01<Roranicus>back, sorry
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12:02<roryprice1>router is a bit weird. It's a TP-link AC1750. It does have openwrt installed, but I never played much with the setting. A friend gave it to me.
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12:08<Tj>roryprice1: from what I can find of illustrations for OpebWRT, this screenshot seems to show how/where to set (remove) the "Use Custom DNS servers" option for the LAN side
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12:08<Tj>roryprice1: in that illustration none are set; my bet is on your router they are
12:09<Tj>roryprice1: as to how your other PCs aren't affected by this - maybe they're using IPv6, or have other settings
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12:09<mooff>did you definitely notice Pi Hole working on those other devices?
12:10<roryprice2>honestly, I didn't play around with it that long.
12:11<roryprice2>it gives the router's IP adress as the IPv4 address
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12:26<Roranicus>well, now the router doesn't work at all. I'm plugged direction on my isp's modem
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12:44<tjcarter>okay I installed something that's shutting down my spinning rust drives when not in use.
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12:45<tjcarter>I need to make that not happen, seriously, it takes five minutes to spin up the entire array
12:46<Tj>uninstall that something :)
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12:47<blast007>is this an mdadm array or is it hardware RAID?
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12:48<tjcarter>LVM array
12:48<tjcarter>30TB of usable space
12:48<Tj>tjcarter: so what did you install that caused this?
12:48<tjcarter>powermgmt-base probably
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12:54<Tj>that only detects state I think (looking at source-code). More likely something like hdparm (it installs /lib/udev/rules.d/85-hdparm.rules )
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13:02<skrrrt>I've got a new hdd and I booted into a live system
13:02<skrrrt>Is this normal
13:02<skrrrt>It's been 4 minutes now
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13:05<skrrrt>And what does late userspace mean ? It pop's up sometimes besides 'live-con'
13:05<Tj>skrrrt: as you can see lots of errors being reported so image might be corrupted
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13:05<Tj>skrrrt: did you verify the image's hash/checksum on the install device?
13:05<skrrrt>Tj: no
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13:05<Tj>skrrrt: that would be the first thing to do, to ensure the file you've downloaded matches what is on the server.
13:06<Tj>if that matches, then you'd need to verify the copy on the install media is good
13:07<Sqrt{not}>skrrrt, how did you copy your live system to its USB (CD?) ?
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13:08<skrrrt>Sqrt{not}: I did it with an android :D
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13:09<skrrrt>I don't have a single working pc right now 😕
13:10<skrrrt>Booda: what's pi4 ?
13:12<skrrrt>Booda: damn I kinda never used a rasberry pi
13:12<Booda>never too late
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13:14<jmcnaught>skrrrt: did you use cp or dd on a rooted Android device, or some app to copy the Debian ISO?
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13:14<skrrrt>jmcnaught: my device is not rooted. I used an app called etchdroid
13:15<dpkg>Etcher is not a reliable way to copy Debian images for installation. Instead, use cp or dd for linux or win32diskimager for Windows.
13:15<jmcnaught>skrrrt: does etchdroid have a "dd" mode?
13:16<skrrrt>I don't think so
13:16<jmcnaught>skrrrt: the issue is that Debian ISO files are already hybrid images that can be burned to disc or copied to USB *unmodified*, but many of these tools like etcher and rufus modify the Debian ISO to try to make what is already bootable bootable, and stuff gets messed up.
13:18<skrrrt>jmcnaught: what should I do ? I'm pretty clueless at this point
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13:18<Tj>skrrrt: you have no other devices or OSes working?
13:19<skrrrt>Tj: I do have an old widows xp hdd
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13:20<dpkg>win32diskimager is much more reliable than <rufus> or <etcher> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details.
13:20<skrrrt>But i don't know if it's even gonna work and the drivers for my keyboard and mouse aren't present
13:20<jmcnaught>I don't know if win32diskimager would work in XP
13:21<jmcnaught>Oh, the webpage says you need 0.9 for XP support.
13:22<skrrrt>This is so hopeless
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13:26<jmcnaught>skrrrt: well there are other things you can try, it might not be a mangled ISO issue. What hardware are you using? Do you know if it requires firmware for the GPU? Which Debian image exactly are you using (filename or URL)?
13:28<skrrrt>jmcnaught: once I installed the gnome de and i needen amd graphics firmware
13:28<skrrrt>I don't know the image
13:29<jmcnaught>skrrrt: these images (installer, or live) have non-free firmware included
13:29<skrrrt>I'm gonna try again with etcher
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13:30<skrrrt>Hey is there a way to copy iso to usb manually on android
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13:30<skrrrt>Look who I'm asking
13:32<jmcnaught>skrrrt: I do not know how to copy an ISO to USB on Android, but some desktop apps for this have a "dd" mode that copies the data directly to the device instead of modifying it.
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13:40<Sqrt{not}>dpkg, etcher =~ s/buster/stable/
13:40<dpkg>OK, Sqrt{not}
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13:46<Sqrt{not}>skrrrt, I don't know android first-hand, but web search tells me this: "dd" is present in Android by default in "/system/bin" location.
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14:07<Tj>the problem isn't executing 'dd', the issue is it doesn't have privileges to access devices unless the device is 'rooted' and uid 0 is possible
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14:23<Sqrt{not}>I wonder if would work on the XP system?
14:24<Tj>wasn't the XP issue that it wouldn't work with the external keyboard/mouse (no reason given; possibly Bluetooth?)
14:24<Tj>interesting bootstrapping challenge though
14:26<Sqrt{not}>No input device does make it more challenging
14:32<Tj>gone is the day when almost everyone would have a bootable CD lying around (being read-only the content didn't get replaced like with USB storage)
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14:37<Sqrt{not}>even optical drives are becoming antique curiosities
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14:39<Tj>we're run pell-mell into a world of short-term-ism in many areas where in the past we'd have a long history available; now its truncated
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15:26<mooff> why isn't Etcher reliable for Debian media? 🤔
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15:34<FizzBuzz>The installer is giving me an error, failed to create partition on disk mmcblk0
15:35<FizzBuzz>fat32 boot partition it looks like, regular livecd graphical installer from what looks like a new installer since i've last used one
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15:41<Sqrt{not}>FizzBuzz, is there a log at VT$?
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15:43<Sqrt{not}>mooff, says: Despite the lack of a Russian-language version, the program is intuitive.
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15:56<mooff>that URL looks sketchy. they used to publish it on
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15:58<mooff>yes, that is a malicious clone URL
15:59<mooff>the real URL is .. the software is good
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16:01<FizzBuzz>Ok, VT4 says org.kde.kded could not find kded module with id device_automounter
16:01<FizzBuzz>basically the only errors other than rando os probe FS stuff
16:02<FizzBuzz>i'm using the xfce installer though
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16:04<FizzBuzz>trying another USB drive to see if it is the installation media
16:04<Tj>FizzBuzz: what systen is this, to be installing to mmcblk ?
16:04<Tj>FizzBuzz: it has eMMC storage, or an external SD-card?
16:04<t800>Hi all. Just installed Debian 11 with Nvidia drivers but it seems the NV driver is not working properly. If I enter hwinfo --gfxcard, then it says "nvidia current drm is not active" and "nvidia current is not active". Any help is appreciated.
16:04<FizzBuzz>Dell Wyse thinclient. eMMC storage onboard. Same as a tablet installation.
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16:05<FizzBuzz>The directories were initially created so it isn't a write protection issue.
16:05<Tj>FizzBuzz: are you allowing the installer to completely replace the existing partition table, or has it got to work with the existing? because if the latter, and it is a dos label (MBR) and all 4 primaries are in use, that might explain it
16:06<FizzBuzz>using erase
16:06<FizzBuzz>its GPT UEFI only
16:06<FizzBuzz>MBR / legacy doesn't work
16:06<Tj>FizzBuzz: the system has booted the installer in EFI mode for sure?
16:06<Tj>FizzBuzz: can you get to a shell when the error happens and check the state of the device?
16:07<FizzBuzz>It even explicitly says so when i press the F12 boot menu
16:07<FizzBuzz>what is the name of the newer style installation program debian is using?
16:07<FizzBuzz>nm , found it
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16:08<Tj>I'd check the partition table is GPT, has an EFI-SP, if it is reporting "failed to create partition on disk mmcblk0"
16:08<Tj>FizzBuzz: how large is that eMMC storage?
16:09<FizzBuzz>huh, debian still doesn't have f2fs as a choice
16:11<Tj>If you can grab the installer logs when it fails we might be able to figure it out
16:11<FizzBuzz>going through the motions now
16:11<FizzBuzz>ok new error, bad unsquash configuration
16:12<FizzBuzz>chcon failed to get security contexts
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16:12<FizzBuzz>trying a different usb drive
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16:14<Tj>does sound like some errors have crept in
16:20<FizzBuzz>ok, have calamares running from a different drive
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16:25<FizzBuzz>"the source filesystem "/run/live/medium/live/filesystem.squashfs" does not exist"
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16:26<FizzBuzz>term says "ERROR: Installation failed: "Bad unsquash configuration"
16:26<FizzBuzz>verified GPT on install
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16:37<mooff>t800: i think the nouveau driver might have higher precedence than nvidia-driver
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16:39<FizzBuzz>another weird bug. when the installer goes to sleep and comes back it asks for a pw
16:40<FizzBuzz>none of the normal defaults are working
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16:49<t800>@mooff: nouveau is also reportedly inactive. How can I check precedence?
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16:54<obeliskblack>is apt-transport-https default on Debian 11 now or repos still update over insecure http?
16:55<jmcnaught>https support was added to apt for Debian 10
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17:03<aloo_shu>what's so insecure about http when your application has its own signature system
17:03<FizzBuzz>They mean the URLs
17:04<FizzBuzz>Uh... you should really go over all of the exploits over the years.
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17:08<FizzBuzz>http and apt are like some kind of inverse Chesterson's fence.
17:09<Tj>the biggest issue with HTTP transport is proxies that intercept and change responses; causing weird issues hard to debug sometimes
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17:10<FizzBuzz>The biggest issue is that people believe signature systems in absense of everything else are actual security.
17:14<aloo_shu>from what I can see, this exploits url forming. but I'll admit that https improves trust that you are connected to who you want to be connected to
17:14<FizzBuzz>So there is no reason not to
17:14<FizzBuzz>if they really cared about the extra overhead, they would actually have pushed that debdelta alternative years ago
17:15<FizzBuzz>instead its still the old one and x86/64 only
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17:17<FizzBuzz>There was also the one listed on the bottom which actually created a bug through the very mechanism that was meant to secure:
17:17<FizzBuzz>Its like a smoke detector catching your house on fire because you can't be bothered to flame retard the plastic
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17:20<Tj>code execution was dealt with I think, but operating as the non-privileged _apt user in a /tmp/ sandbox ?
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17:21<FLHerne>FizzBuzz: I once received a recall notice for smoke detectors that spontaneously caught fire
17:22<boud>obeliskblack, jmcnaught, aloo_shu, + ... there's a big -devel discussion + a bug on this: + +
17:22<judd>Bug in general (open, moreinfo): «general: Use https for {deb,security} by default»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2021-08-22; last modified: 2021-09-03.
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17:24<Sqrt{not}>FizzBuzz, just to be sure, what tool did you use to write your live system to the USB?
17:24<FizzBuzz>LOL, someone still defending the practice because of squid usage.
17:24<FizzBuzz>Sqrt, Rufus
17:25<Sqrt{not}>did you use ISO mode, or DD mode?
17:25<aloo_shu><FizzBuzz> So there is no reason not to <- that's a false inference from 'there is some reason to', and an example of what can blow up technical debates into social problems
17:25<FizzBuzz>ISO mode
17:25<Sqrt{not}>that's your problem right there.
17:25<Sqrt{not}>redo it with DD mode. rufus changes the image in iso mode, inserts its own crap
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17:27<FizzBuzz>That isn't a real reason. Reverse proxies as a default configuration are purely for a specific use case. This is like when the oil industry wanted their destributed filesystem in the kernel and it stayed in staging forever. Eventually people wised up because the vast majority weren't using this FS.
17:28<FizzBuzz>They are also for a use case where in modern times you would be altering this configuration for containers or VMs. Sane defaults should supersede this.
17:28<FizzBuzz>Explicit is better than implicit, otherwise.
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17:44<mooff>i support default HTTPS for apt for privacy if for nothing else
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17:45<mooff>t800: heh, the same command tells me nouveau, nvidia_current and nvidia_current_drm are inactive, also
17:46<mooff>but it's certainly using the nvidia driver
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17:47<mooff>which DE are you running? what what is your primary symptom, again?
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17:47<mooff>i also experience tearing with i3, and just have to live with it
17:47<mooff>Gnome does not tear, i think
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17:48<t800>mooff: tearing and also kwin crashed once. besides I didn't have these issues before. I'm on KDE
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17:50<mooff>t800: you upgraded from buster to bullseye, then the issues began?
17:50<t800>mooff: shouldn't it be reporting nvidia active?
17:50<t800>no it's a fresh install. I had Arch before
17:50<mooff>t800: i don't know the tool, can only say that for me it reports the same:
17:52<mooff>t800: you're running Debian 11, right?
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17:53<t800>mooff: It's weird. Why inactive if it's working?
17:53<t800>yes bullseye
17:53<mooff>t800: the hwinfo tool must be getting confused. did it report correctly on Arch?
17:53<t800>yep, never had this issue
17:54<mooff>hwinfo did not say 'not active' ?
17:54<t800>pretty sure it reported nvidia active
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17:55<t800>also, if nvidia works properly there shouldn't be any tearing
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17:56<t800>mooff: are you using KDE too?
17:58<mooff>no, i use i3, and before i used Gnome
18:01<mooff>t800: do you remember using any tweaks or settings on Arch when you first set it up there?
18:01<mooff>do you remember a "Force Composition Pipeline" setting?
18:01<t800>I just installed nvidia-driver and some miscellaneous package and then rebooted. Is there anything else I might have forgotten?
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18:02<t800>Force Composition is not needed on Arch you just install the driver and you're good to go
18:03<t800>maybe Debian is behind on this
18:04<sney>compositing is controlled by kwin and should be enabled by default. but you can check in kde system settings, under display and monitor
18:04<t800>Thing is, Debian Wiki advises the same thing and nothing else
18:04<mooff>t800: if it is, i would also like to improve it
18:05<mooff>as i said i've had issues with tearing, too, i assumed it was just the driver's fault
18:05<sney>I'm on nvidia in kde and I see occasional tearing as well. it's not perfect.
18:06<t800>sney: yeah, Gnome is something else I have to admit
18:06<mooff>sney: do you use the "nvidia-drm.modeset=1" boot parameter?
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18:07<t800>haven't checked. where was it?
18:07<sney>that one is typically set in /etc/default/grub
18:08<t800>no I didn't touch that
18:08<t800>you think it's related?
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18:09<mooff>yeah, it's a candidate for what's different about Arch's defaults that makes it work
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18:09<mooff>worth a try
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18:10<t800>OK. I'll check it out thanks for time guys
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18:12<mooff>don't forget to "sudo update-grub" after editing /etc/default/grub
18:12<mooff>also seeing that there is a vsync setting somewhere in KWin Settings
18:13<t800>yep, i'll keep it in mind thanks again
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18:13<t800>I think vsync is on Auto mode
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18:14<mooff>try forcing it on there, i guess
18:15<sney>mine is set to full screen repaints
18:15<sney>and when I say "occasional" tearing I mean it, it's rare
18:16<mooff>this TripleBuffer option helps many people
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18:17<mooff>putting that into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/nvidia-triple-buffer.conf ought to enable it
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18:20<t800>these should be on Debian Wiki!!
18:20<mooff>xorg.conf overrides are a bit mystifying to me, ideally someone more battle hardened could give it a look over
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18:24<mooff>i.e. you also see overrides written like this, and i don't grok how they differ
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18:28<sney>the outputclass ones only load if the nvidia kernel driver is loaded, so if you change GPUs it won't break X
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18:37<grootpruner>so ah.... the debian 11 calamares installer.... there's no way to set up/enable root at graphical install time from the livecd? install-debian seems to lack that, debian 10 did though?
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18:53<FizzBuzz>So I did it with DD. Same error. Now the unit won't boot at all.
18:53<FizzBuzz>I'll probably buy another one to verify.
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18:56<FizzBuzz>ah no need, can use the ch341a
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19:17<FizzBuzz>OK so flashing everything back to normal and re-running the install fails with failed to unpack image /run/live/medium/live/filesystem/squashfs, rsync error code 10
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19:24<Sqrt{not}>"back to normal" meaning rufus ISO mode?
19:27<FizzBuzz>i mean the device
19:27<FizzBuzz>i just did a straight up DD
19:29<Sqrt{not}>oh, good. is it calamares install, or d-i ?
19:31<FizzBuzz>it starts unpacking and then gets squash errors
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19:32<Sqrt{not}>a linux dd? did you sync after?
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19:40<Sqrt{not}>does the machine have lots of memory ?
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20:07<FizzBuzz>so when I put it on a small USB drive, it says There is not enough drive space, at least 10GB is required
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20:08<FizzBuzz>So a larger drive with empty space allows you to install to not enough space
20:08<FizzBuzz>and when did Debian XFCE need 10GB minimum?
20:08<FizzBuzz>I mean, GPARTED isn't even in here
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20:12<FizzBuzz>Ironically Xubuntu requires 8GB
20:16<sney>XFCE itself only needs about 3GB but 10GB is the recommended minimum for any debian system with a desktop,
20:16<sney>if the calamares installer is not letting you proceed with less disk space, that may be a bug, though I'm not familiar enough with calamares to be sure
20:18<grootpruner>the graphical installer that's on the desktop of the livecd session appears to be a bit useless/wonky, the graphical installer you can select from grub is different
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20:20<FizzBuzz>Ok, i'll try the tried and true graphical installer. If not i'm just going to grab the netinstall. Ironically I was trying to save time and it cost me much more.
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20:45<grootpruner>oh yeah...... I forgot about this, I was trying to install buster on a VM last month with a small virtual disk, and the calamares installer said I didn't have enough space when I did, it would seem like there is a bug with that
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20:59<joeDoe>when I plug my cell phone into usb, I don't see it in pcmanfm anymore when I choose to allow file transfers in the preferences of the phone. Before, pcmanfm used to show the mounted device that I could select to browse contents. This may be since the bullseye upgrade. I can't remember if I've successfully done this since I upgraded to 11 or not. Anyway, if I tail messages the kernel is seeing
20:59<joeDoe>a usb device that is using xhci_hcd, lists a bunch of system numbers like idVendor, idProduct, and shows the brand model and serial number of the phone, but I don't see the fils system mounted. Clues?
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21:00<joeDoe>before it used to get mounted under /run/users/<digits>/gvfs/mtp://<blahblah>
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21:08<FizzBuzz>eh, looks like traditional installer needs more space as well
21:08<FizzBuzz>it just gets further along
21:08<sney>it's not a warning you can bypass?
21:09<sney>or maybe that's limited to expert mode
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21:13<FizzBuzz>no bypassable anything
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21:20<FizzBuzz>so debian netinstall requires a partition of 6.2+GB apparently
21:21<FizzBuzz>It literally said that was the minimum
21:21<FizzBuzz>in the regular graphical installer with the netinst
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21:24<somiaj>What do you mean, you can install debian on much less than 6.2 gigs
21:24<FizzBuzz>Apparently not through the guided installer on 11
21:25<somiaj> -- here it says 2gigs
21:25<FizzBuzz>it literally just forced me to make a partition larger than 6.2GB
21:25<FizzBuzz>That's fine, I read it. I'm telling you what was forced in practice.
21:25<somiaj>That seems odd to me, use manual instead of guided if you don't want its recommended size
21:25<FizzBuzz>It isn't a recommendation though
21:25<FizzBuzz>It is forced
21:26<FizzBuzz>Pretty weird doublespeak
21:26<somiaj>I don't ever use the standard installer, let me double check in a vm
21:28<FizzBuzz>Hopefully "standard system utilities" doesn't put me over
21:28<dpkg>i guess standard task is a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>.
21:28<FizzBuzz>pretty weird that you can install xfce without debian desktop environment. It seems that one should require the other
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21:28<somiaj>I think standard system utils is around 500megs (though I maybe slightly outdated)
21:29<sney>task-xfce-desktop and task-desktop are strictly separate packages, but most cases you will want both
21:29<FizzBuzz>yup, pretty sure it put me over
21:29<FizzBuzz>also i clicked no to pop contest and it installed it anyways
21:30<somiaj>Yea, I think guided partition just chooses sizes for you, if you want more control use manual partitiong
21:30<FizzBuzz>i did, it had limits
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21:31<somiaj>not sure what you did, but I just created a 1 gig partition
21:32<FizzBuzz>I can create the partition
21:32<FizzBuzz>it won't finish the installation and will tell me 6.2 min
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21:33<somiaj>I had no issues, installing a minimum system on a 1 gig partition as we speak
21:33<FizzBuzz>dunno, must be using a different option or configuration
21:34<FizzBuzz>Pretty sure it is letting me now. Ugh, no wonder. It considers libreoffice part of the debian desktop environment
21:35<somiaj>yes, an office program is considered part of many desktop tasks, there are ways to install smaller meta packages if you desire
21:36<FizzBuzz>Right, using the graphical installer should at least list this stuff or pull package sizes from updates to estimate the install size instead of trying to install and failing
21:37<somiaj>well it let me try to install on 1gig (but docs say 2gigs) and I ran out of space, so guess standard software and /var takes up about 2gigs these days
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21:38<somiaj>well the partition part doesn't know what you want to install, so one should choose something reasonable, but it appears the manual partition lets you do what you want, and guided just uses the entier disk based on one of a few options you give it
21:38<FizzBuzz>No idea. I'm using the graphical netinst
21:38<joeDoe>nvm, gvfs-backends and gvfs-fuse got uninstalled for some reason during the bullseye upgrade. All works now
21:38<FizzBuzz>the options are given afterwards
21:38<FizzBuzz>your order of operations is incorrect
21:38<somiaj>Yes, I'm in the graphical net install too
21:38<somiaj>the parititon options happen before you select additional software to install
21:38<FizzBuzz>You partition before you choose the install options
21:38<FizzBuzz>Which imho is backwards
21:39<FizzBuzz>at least for a network install where you can know the sizes ahead of time
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21:40<somiaj>you can't install until you have a partition, so it is not backwards
21:40<FizzBuzz>I should've just used ansible with the state of things
21:40<FizzBuzz>You can know the sizes before you partition
21:40<FizzBuzz>which could influence the minimum size ahead of time
21:40<somiaj>now maybe there could be a tool that you can use to estimate size needed if you wanted, but that would be something that could be added to the partitioner
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21:41<FizzBuzz>This is done in many operating systems, including QNX.
21:41<trevorksmith>Anyone good with AMD CPU's? Doing `cpupower frequency-info` and getting back info the boosting is enabled, however, there dont seem to be any boosting States set.
21:41<somiaj>well make a patch, send it to the debian-installer
21:41<FizzBuzz>Trying to get them to change is like trying to move stonehenge
21:42<somiaj>send a patch, if it is done well they will consider it
21:42<FizzBuzz>they are still considering https apt repositories by default
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21:42<FizzBuzz>they still haven't picked which debdelta style format to go ahead with while one is run on the side
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21:43<FizzBuzz>great, it finally installed. The new installer is insane, worse than the old graphical one.
21:43<FizzBuzz>and way worse than expert mode
21:43<somiaj>I had no problem installing on a partition less than 6gigs, I was able to install on a 2gig partition, and the minimum system with only standard system tools installed takes up 736M (more is needed to download packages during the install)
21:44<FizzBuzz>Did you install a desktop or base system?
21:44<FizzBuzz>Also the point your missing is something guided should still be correct
21:44<FizzBuzz>I value correctness
21:45<sussudio>* you're.
21:45<FizzBuzz>You got me
21:48<FizzBuzz>lol and now it won't boot
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21:48<FizzBuzz>I'm going back to buster
21:49<somiaj>guided is not meant for someone who wants to have more control over their partition sizes
21:49<FizzBuzz>It also shouldn't lie to me.
21:49<somiaj>and the expert mode is meant for those who want even more control
21:50<FizzBuzz>Apparently it is for those that don't want to be lied to.
21:50<FizzBuzz>I've never seen a version refuse to let me go forward in that way.
21:50<FizzBuzz>...and I remember the Lenny bugs
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22:03<mooff>speak your mind, now, don't sugar coat how you really feel 😀
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22:31<grootpruner>oh yeah btw... the graphical installers think my efi bootloader setup just won't work but I can't figure out what it thinks doesn't work? the bootloader doesn't need its own partition anyway. I guess there's like a million install cases that aren't handled
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22:33<grootpruner>I think it gets tripped up on some legacy bios stuff that doesn't exist cause everything boots fine
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22:42<Sqrt{not}>good to know you got it all fixed then.
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23:31<tuxd3v>What is the best way to jump into coming for example from
23:31<tuxd3v>using the isolate
23:32<tuxd3v>or just, stoping the graphical target, and starting the
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 05 00:00:24 2021