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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-05

---Logopened Sun Sep 05 00:00:24 2021
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01:08<aduialthin[m]>I installed Debian 11, but it seems like now when I yank or delete a line in file A, closing the file A; then open file b, in the file b, pasting what's copied would cause vim complains `nothing in the register"`. This seems to me there is a conf is changed. What configuration can I set in order to restore that auto register to clippod between files when using vim?
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01:22<aduialthin[m]><aduialthin[m]> "I installed Debian 11, but it se" <- To answer my own question. I forgot that in default Debian install minimum vim. So vim-nox needs to be installed as well. Then this problem goes away. Thanks.
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01:41<aduialthin[m]>In gnome 3, I read on the internet somewhere else that gnome no longer uses screensaver to lock the screen. Instead, a message sent to dbus and login screen is activated again. Like [1]. In such case, what dbus command should I use to resume login? Also how to send that dbus command? In terminal?
01:41<aduialthin[m]>[1]. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingScreenLocking/HowScreenLockingWorks
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01:42<aduialthin[m]>The env I use is Debian 11 with kernel 5.10.0-8-amd64. I can't find the link for the doc I found a while ago on the internet. So use Ubuntu's as reference instead. Hope that doesn't cause the confusing.
01:42<aloo_shu>tuxd3v: can you 'stop' a target?
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01:47<aloo_shu>I've used isolate before, I would maybe try to look up documentation what happens if I use the legacy compatibility init <runlevel> commands
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01:50<JangHyun>yo
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05:05<at0m>hi, hi would i find what /dev/ttyS* corresponds to what physical USB port, where a certain device is attached? seems i need to edit that in .wine/dosdevices so the wine app can see the usb device
05:05<at0m>hi, how*
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05:07<at0m>the usb device is set up via a win7 i386 binary that i can run on wine, the program just doesn't see the device, and setting that under dosdevices is reported to fix that
05:08<at0m>i could go one-by-one and try :D
05:08<apkef>USB to serial adapters usually have /dev/ttyUSB*
05:09<Tj>at0m: the path in sysfs should help " ls -l /sys/class/tty/ttyUSB?/device/driver/ttyUSB?"
05:09<Tj>e.g. "/sys/class/tty/ttyUSB0/device/driver/ttyUSB0 -> ../../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:08.1/0000:05:00.3/usb1/1-3/1-3:1.0/ttyUSB0"
05:10<at0m>apkef: yes, that's what was in the tutorial i found, but my debian installation has no such ttyUSB's for some reason :/
05:10<at0m>Tj: thanks, checking
05:10<Tj>see the 1-3 ? that means Bus 1, Port 3, which can be seen with "lsusb -tv"
05:11<at0m>thanks, yea, i found the Bus 001 Device 009
05:11<apkef>what you are connecting in the usb port? a usb to serial adapter? or some kind of "unlocking dongle"?
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05:13<at0m>apkef: a MIDI sequencer, https://www.arturia.com/products/hybrid-synths/beatstep-pro
05:14<at0m>it has some pre-config stuff that needs to be done over USB. (in extremis, i'd hijack a friend's Win machine for that, but what a win (pun intended) if i could wine it
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05:35<at0m>"lsusb -v | grep Arturia" does return a "Bus 001 Device 009: ID 1c75:0287 Arturia Arturia BeatStep Pro". but no returns for "find /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/ -name 1-9" :/
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05:37<Tj>at0m: that is expected; sysfs is full of symlinks and the device is on the USB bus, not PCI - using find on sysfs often either gets nothing, or gets loops due to all the symlinks :)
05:39<at0m>Tj: oh, i thought since another device does give a positive return (find /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/ -name 1-3), i hoped 1-9 would result in the same
05:39<at0m>same/similar
05:39<at0m>1-3 is not the BeatStep, so no use
05:40<at0m>maybe that's the webcam or touchpad
05:40<Tj>mine is 1-3 :)
05:40*at0m ssh's to another machine on the lan and hopes maybe that one has ttyUSB
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05:41<at0m>nope, none have it
05:41<Tj>at0m: actually, that should work on the /devices/ node
05:41<at0m>Tj: the find ?
05:41<Tj>at0m: yes
05:41<Tj>I checked here and there are no sym-links along that path to trip it up
05:41<at0m>well yea, since it gives a positive return for find /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/ -name 1-3
05:42<at0m>hmmm
05:42<Tj>"find /sys/devices/pci0000\:00/ -name '1-3' " => "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:08.1/0000:05:00.3/usb1/1-3"
05:42<at0m>exactly
05:43<at0m>it does *that*, just no returns for 1-9, even with "lsusb -v | grep Arturia" returning Bus 001 Device 009
05:43<at0m>funny :)
05:43<Tj>at0m: is that device on a different PCI root port? (not 00000:00 )
05:44<at0m>only got one PCI bus in /sys/devices/
05:44<Tj>hmmph!
05:44<Tj>what does "ls -l /sys/class/tty/ttyUSB?/device/driver/ttyUSB?" show?
05:46<at0m>there is no /sys/class/tty/ttyUSB anything, only tty[0-63] plus ttyS[0-3]
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05:46<at0m>i checked on 2 other machines running bullseye (after upgrade from buster), same thing, no ttyUSB's
05:47<at0m>and same tty[0-63] plus ttyS[0-3]
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05:48<at0m>i'm thinking since only 4 ttyS's, those might be the ttyUSB's
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05:48<Tj>no, it looks like it isn't presenting as a tty
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05:49<at0m>https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=93137.msg151871#msg151871 is where i found the hints on ttyUSB
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05:50<at0m>they're just not on my machine, hence my asking here
05:51<Tj>check under "ls -l /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/1-9/ "
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05:54<at0m>nothing under there, find /sys/bus/usb/devices/ -name 1-9 returns blank
05:54<Tj>at0m: easiest for the info you want is "lsusb -tvv"
05:54<at0m>argh
05:54<at0m>ok
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05:55<Tj>that'll give you the syfs and devtmpfs paths to each device
05:55<Tj>e.g.
05:55<Tj> |__ Port 3: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=mct_u232, 12M
05:55<Tj> ID 0711:0230 Magic Control Technology Corp. MCT-232 Serial Port
05:55<Tj> /sys/bus/usb/devices/1-3 /dev/bus/usb/001/003
05:55<at0m>Tj: aah, right, -t does that tree and indeed shows "/sys/bus/usb/devices/1-3 /dev/bus/usb/001/009"
05:56<at0m>ok i can work w that i think
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06:23<apkef>atom: I believe that your midi has some obscure usb controller that linux does not recognise. Try connecting and disconnecting the midi while looking at "tail -f /var/log/syslog"
06:23<apkef>at0m: ...disconnect and connect...
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06:25<at0m>apkef: thanks, did that. and good remark, that just because idVendor=1c75, idProduct=0287 are positively identified, doesn't mean it's all supported.
06:25<at0m>aplay -l and amidi -l does show the device though
06:25<at0m>does/do
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06:29<at0m>https://paste.debian.net/1210495/
06:29<at0m>the output from syslog on reconnect
06:30<apkef>if aplay shows the device then it seen by linux! but it is a native usb port. there is not tty device so forget about ttyS* or ttyUSB0
06:32<at0m>apkef: that might be where step 5) here goes wrong then? https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=93137.msg151871#msg151871
06:32<at0m>..for the original poster, as for me
06:32<at0m>oh wait, s/he does have ttyUSB
06:34<at0m>i guess i'll ask about in music producers channel on libera, and see if anyone there has more luck. else, fallback to a friend's Windows machine.
06:34<at0m>Tj, apkef: thanks again for your assistance!
06:35<apkef>One last try!!! ls -al /dev/hidraw*
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06:36<at0m>apkef: No such file or directory :D
06:37<Tj>doesn't the windows side talk to the raw USB device though? in which case any Linux driver is immaterial? if wine/windows application is being given the /dev/bus/usb/ address that will be so, which may infer the Windows application expects a Windows device driver to be in place
06:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 1008] by debhelper
06:38<at0m>Tj: well, there's indeed a driver to install with the device
06:38<at0m>for the native windows control application to work, that is
06:38<Tj>at0m: which'll likely be windows 'kernel' level which doesn't exist with Wine so far as I know - any indications on Windows the application can talk to the device without that driver installed ?
06:39<Tj>at0m: Probably the USB device exposes a "vendor specific" interface for control as well as the USB class device for MIDI that aplay reports
06:40<at0m>Tj: amidi -l showing the device would at least enable its IO (the onboard ports there) and maybe as a controller (the onboard knobs and buttons), probably also why it shows as 2 devices
06:41<at0m>Tj: right, the controller app also allows for firmware updates and more low level control
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06:42<Tj>at0m: what is the "pre-config stuff" it needs to do that you referred to? I assume that may be done over the "vendor specific" interface
06:43<at0m>"more low level control", like configuring what knobs send what sort of signals, as opposed to recognizing the set signals
06:43<at0m>Tj: the pre-config stuff would be to customize the specific signals each control knob/button sends
06:44<at0m>that would depend on every user's own connected other devices, like synths or drumsound modules
06:44<at0m>these all expect their own factory set signals
06:45<apkef>"n older versions of Ubuntu introducing PulseAudio, whatever application started using ALSA first would prevent the others from accessing it. For instance, any application using PulseAudio would prevent Timidity from producing sound. Conversely, playing a MIDI file would prevent PulseAudio from working."
06:45<apkef>https://wiki.winehq.org/MIDI
06:45<Tj>have you checked if programs like ardour may already have the ability, or plugins for that device?
06:45<at0m>thanks, checking, and if needed (ardour does that automagically, iirc, kill pulse)
06:45<Tj>might be worth asking on Libera network, in #ardour
06:46<Tj>the devs are in that channel most of the time, although being Sunday not sure they'll be available immediately
06:46<Tj>ardour works with pulseaudio, or directly to ALSA, or via JACK
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06:47<at0m>Tj: indeed, thanks, i'm 'always' there, and know both ardour and the channel
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06:48<Tj>Good, me too :)
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08:06<BionicFox>Hey, I'm having a really weird issue when trying to setup a Debian server. For some reason UFW is not recognized as a command at all. I've tried reinstalling it and making sure it's installed correctly, but I just haven't been able to get it to work. Other installed programs like byobu are working correctly though. Any idea what's going on?
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08:07<apkef>have you tried 'sudo apt install ufw' ???
08:07<BionicFox>I installed it as root to begin with
08:08<BionicFox>Alright, interestingly enough UFW only functions with sudo. It won't work when using su root either.
08:08<somiaj>!buster su
08:08<dpkg>Starting with buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details.
08:09<BionicFox>Gotcha, wasn't aware of that.
08:09<BionicFox>Thank you for the help!
08:10<somiaj>I use sudo -i mostly these days, though that is because I have sudo access.
08:11<BionicFox>The server I got didn't have sudo installed by default which is why I was using su. I was able to do it this way just fine with Alpine, didn't realize there could be differences like that.
08:12<somiaj>yea, some don't use sudo for various reasons, turns out debian's su was considered unstandard for years, and finally in buster they "fixed" it causing many issues with those who were use to it
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08:13<BionicFox>Aaahh, makes sense. I was experimenting with not using sudo on my Alpine server. Was trying it out to see if sudo was really necessary
08:14<BionicFox>Especially when it's not installed by default. Figured one less thing wouldn't be a bad idea
08:14<somiaj>It isn't just pay attention to the difference between login and no-login shells. 'su' is meant to give root with the current enviorment
08:14<somiaj>while 'su -' is meant to give root with a new root enviorment
08:14<BionicFox>Makes sense. Thank you for the advice!
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08:17<nurupo>anyone able to make firefox esr use kde file picker?
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10:00<dni1>Hi,Im using debian 11 on imac 2015,why cant i change brightness
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10:22<at0m>,info pommed
10:22<judd>Package pommed (utils, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Apple laptops hotkeys event handler. Version: 1.39~dfsg-5.1; Size: 54.0k; Installed: 144k
10:22<at0m>did they run off? duh.
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10:28<scorpion2185[m]>,v python3-matrix-nio
10:28<judd>Package: python3-matrix-nio on amd64 -- bullseye: 0.16.0-1; bookworm: 0.18.6-1; sid: 0.18.6-1
10:29<scorpion2185[m]>can somebody backport it? For mirage
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11:31<apkef>Hi, I have upgraded to Bullseye a few days now, and I am a bit confused with cups and ipp-usb!!!
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11:34<apkef>I have an hp deskjet 3835 which is playing nice with ipp-usb
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11:35<apkef>but instead of an ipp: uri in cups web interface, I have implicitclass:
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11:37<Celelibi>When I send a mail to nnn@bugs.debian.org, I can add some commands with a pseudo-header "Control". But there doesn't seem to be a "thanks" command. Is that normal?
11:37<apkef>furthermore cups says that the printer is "Not shared" although I have checked "Share printers connected to this system"
11:39<pert>Celelibi: yes, you don't need a thanks command when using the Control: pseudo-header since it will stop reading at the end of the line. You *do* need a thanks command when emailing control@bugs.debian.org because your mail might contain extra stuff, and it does need a way to know where to stop
11:39<RoyK>-j #nuug
11:40<Celelibi>pert, makes sens.
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11:40<Celelibi>I guess I could also just put control in Cc.
11:41<Celelibi>And start with the commands without the pseudo-header.
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12:21<Elwood_Soup>Hi guys, I just installed libreboot on an Asus KGPE-D16 mobo and I can't control the fan speed in Debian. I've run sensors-detect but pwmconfig gives me this output: https://paste.debian.net/1210526/
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12:22<Elwood_Soup>Debian 11
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12:36<amacater_>It may just be that Libreboot - replacing the on-board firmware - doesn't have the approrpriate inputs to support fan control - fan speed 0 is a give-away, I think.
12:37<amacater_>That's the only hint I can give, I'm afraid.
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12:43<Elwood_Soup>https://www.coreboot.org/Board:asus/kgpe-d16#Fan_Control
12:44<Elwood_Soup>The coreboot docs state that it doesn't handle fan control but that you can use fancontrol/pwmconfig, for this board
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12:45*tjcarter wonders if someone will hopefully in the near future begin producing Apple M1-level ARM machines/boards that are just not highly proprietary
12:45<tjcarter>Kinda screams "Mini-ITX me" to me
12:46<amacater_>tjcarter - no chance - Apple M1 is Apple only and very highly proprietary :(
12:47<tjcarter>amacater_: Oh hell not M1, I have no desire to buy anything Apple anymore due to disreputable business practices. But other SoCs with similar performace could be made if someone cared to do so.
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12:47<sney>if arm isn't a requirement, but small/high power is what you're looking for, that RISC-V stuff looks promising
12:47<tjcarter>RISC-V would also be worth it
12:48<sney>arm will only get more black box and prorpietary once this sale to nvidia goes through
12:48<tjcarter>last I heard the UK was strongly leaning toward "no way in Hell", has that changed?
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12:50<sney>it keeps making gradual process towards yes, if the regulators wanted to actually stop the sale that would have happened a while ago aiui
12:50*tjcarter raises a cold one to ARM and to the memory of Acorn
12:51<tjcarter>So … where do I get me a RISC-V that can keep up with an old i7-3770? 😃
12:53<tjcarter>Because if I can put Debian on a CPU that can compete with a decade-old consumer Intel product today, I can do whatever I like with it really. If it can't keep up with that, it's probably going to be pretty limited for me.
12:53<amacater_>tjcarter: I don't think there's anything in ARM / RISC-V that's yet at the level of an old i7 in performance terms - but they score on low power consumption. /me really wants a decent ARM server class board at moderate price or a screaming mini-ITX but the market doesn't want to give me one.
12:53<sney>I think it's all prototypes and dev kits so far, the "good" hardware has yet to be released
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12:54<tjcarter>I think the M1 is on that level
12:54<crawler>,v modsecurity-crs
12:54<judd>Package: modsecurity-crs on amd64 -- stretch: 3.0.0-3; stretch-backports: 3.0.2-1~bpo9+1; buster: 3.1.0-1+deb10u1; buster-backports: 3.3.0-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 3.3.0-1; bookworm: 3.3.2-1; sid: 3.3.2-1
12:54<tjcarter>And some Aarch64 stuff can do better on the high end, but it's priced on the high-end too.
12:55<amacater_>Knowing folk who work(ed) for ARM - there were a lot of good server boards that went nowhere. I think M1 will score only because it has an Apple ecosystem behind it and they don't care how much they spend for a processor for iPhone/Macbook etc. etc.
12:55<amacater_>The net cost to Apple is almost $0 per CPU.
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12:56<tjcarter>Intel will remain dominant unless or until Microsoft has means and desire to drop backward compatibility
12:57<tjcarter>There's reasons they might do that, and I know they'd certainly like to do it, but … the missing link doesn't seem to exist yet
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12:59<amacater_>Intel won't impreove - I think there's a large market for low power "good enough" ARM devices but not yet obviously consumer laptops (other than Chromebooks).
13:00<amacater_>The average consumer still wants Windows that works.
13:01<tjcarter>thing is, if a really high-end ARM Chromebook got made … look at Windows 11, it'd suit a lot of people just fine.
13:01<sney>this thing is up for preorders in the $600 range, I'm not sure why they would put the memory onboard rather than having a (SO)DIMM socket, but NVME and pci-e support at least *implies* desktop-ish performance. https://www.sifive.com/boards/hifive-unmatched
13:01<tjcarter>And Microsoft just ceded that market to Google.
13:01<sney>and the soc is listed on the debian wiki risc-v page
13:02<tjcarter>sney: that suits me fine
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13:05<amacater_>sney: Memory onboard because that's how it works with the SoC, possibly. £515 for relatively low performance, maybe :( by the time I add a case and PSU, it's £650=700
13:05<tjcarter>wish they'd gone with USB-C for the console port because I have decided it's time to take micro-B out and have it shot.
13:05<sney>indeed, I don't think I'll sign up for a preorder but I do think I'll check back in and see how the reviews rate it
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13:07<tjcarter>I don't think I can sign up for a preorder either just now, but if it comes to market, I'm ready to buy one.
13:07<sney>amacater_: the same vendor's other risc-v board is under $100 so I wonder if this price is calculated to not scare away *too* many of the SBC people.
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13:09<tjcarter>I suspect that board needs a heatsink if it's going to have the performance it seems to suggest it will
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13:09<tjcarter>For the price this needs to not be an overglorified Raspberry Pi.
13:10<sney>the crowdsupply link has some more performance info and shows a picture with a teeny tiny heatsink on it
13:10<tjcarter>I note it needs a GPU if you want graphics
13:11<tjcarter>Adorable.
13:11<amacater_>Can't be resold either ... it's an evaluation board
13:11<amacater_>The other board is a very small SBC that's like a Raspberry Pi ...
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13:13<sney>yeah, so if this is where the tech is now, if user/developer interest keeps up imagine what we'll see in ~2 years
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13:17<tjcarter>well, I think that's about it for me for a bit … I need to take a cocktail of anti-owww things and become horizontal for a bit
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13:19<amacater_>sney: Except they've been promising things for >> 3 years and had a board a while back on Kickstarter :(
13:19*amacater_ waves and says bye to tjcarter
13:20<sney>it takes a while for anything to get started. the rpi was all hype for a while too.
13:20<tjcarter>If y'all consider doing things that might cause you to need chemo medications later, I suggest not doing those things.
13:21<sney>sound advice
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13:25<amacater_>tjcarter: Don't drink, don't smoke, don't drink caffeine, eat for your heart, don't chase around with wild women: you'll live to 100. Even if you only live another 3 years, it will _feel_ as if you've lived to be 100. Sorry to hear about chemo - good luck
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13:31<Sinchan>hey
13:31<sney>hi
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13:31<tjcarter>so much for the becoming horizontal
13:32<tjcarter>not conveniently an option—I will attempt to not be overly antisocial
13:33<tjcarter>amacater_: thanks BTW, it's not a new thing at this point. But there are recent signs that something might be wrong and it's pretty uncomfortable. I'll get through it.
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13:43<scorpion2185[m]>When I use revolt a process gets 90% CPU why lately is that haapening?
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15:28<DoctorD90>thanks tjcarter ! i will try it somehow :D
15:29<tjcarter>'welcome! (I've totally forgotten what I was suggesting, lol)
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15:31<DoctorD90>tjcarter, grlm boot-thing
15:31<tjcarter>ah!
15:31<tjcarter>yeah, I've tried it out, it's pretty simple. Simple's good, I like simple.
15:31<DoctorD90>even if I dont know if I have update-grub XD
15:31<DoctorD90>(particular setup)
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15:33<tjcarter>I understand "particular setup" 🤣
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15:38<DoctorD90>ahahah tjcarter I dont know if I have or not "update-grub", cause I run it from a live ISO, and Im updating a "boot-grub" local folder created by hand by me...so a really particular setup
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16:01<Lantizia>Hi :) So on Debian 10 and earlier if I wanted to manually make a crypt-compatible encrypted password that is of id=6 (i.e. SHA-512) ... i.e. one that begins... $6 then I could use...
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16:02<Lantizia>perl -e'print crypt("'$susrpass'", "\$6\$'$(tr -cd 'a-zA-Z0-9./'</dev/urandom|head -c16)'")'
16:02<Lantizia>Since Debian 11 uses 'yescrypt' (is that right?) which is $y and not $6... is there any easy way of making one of these (without any extra extraneous packages)? the same perl crypt function doesn't seem to know how to do that
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16:05<tjcarter>Lantizia: does the above perl line noise not work anymore?
16:05<tjcarter>my understanding is that sha512 passwords still work, they're just not the default
16:06<Lantizia>oh sure I understand that
16:06<Lantizia>but if the aim was to make a $y type password (e.g. to feed to useradd, since adduser doesn't take them) then... what might the options be?
16:07<tjcarter>I wasn't aware adduser didn't take them
16:07<Lantizia>not that I've ever figured out anyway - at least not non-interactively
16:07<urk>Does anyone have experience configuring LXDE interface with Debian? No one is responding in #lxde.
16:08<tjcarter>you can tell adduser not to run passwd, this will disable the login until one is set
16:09<urk>I am trying to figure out how to avoid duplicate displays of a minimized screen. At this time I get one icon for a minimized display on the left side of my panel bar, and one icon for a minimized screen on the far right side of my panel bar.
16:09<tjcarter>Lantizia: can you set a password with usermod directly?
16:10<Lantizia>tjcarter, there are other benefits of useradd though... e.g. in one line I used to be able to make an entire user/group...
16:10<Lantizia>useradd -u1000 $susruser -p$(perl -e'print crypt("'$susrpass'", "\$6\$'$(tr -cd 'a-zA-Z0-9./'</dev/urandom|head -c16)'")') -c"Supervisor User",,, -m -s/bin/bash -Gdip,plugdev,netdev,adm,dialout,sudo
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16:10<Lantizia>I have a feeling adduser couldn't cope with specifying *all* of that in one line... the groups, the shell, the comments, the password, etc...
16:11<tjcarter>ahh, if useradd doesn't work, then usermod won't either
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16:12<Lantizia>tjcarter, useradd isn't not working.. it's just finding a way of creating this $y type password
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16:12<Myon>whois: /usr/bin/mkpasswd
16:13<tjcarter>ah
16:13<tjcarter>that'll do what Lantizia needs
16:13<Lantizia><Lantizia> [...] (without any extra extraneous packages)?
16:13<Myon>and of course apache2-utils: /usr/bin/htpasswd
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16:16<Lantizia>hmm it seems I've got whois as one of the packages I bring in anyway (I don't let tasksel install packages marked 'standard' ... I have a my own list of what I think of as standard :P)
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16:16<Myon>it's a quite weird package to ship it with, but it's always been like that
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16:18<tjcarter>my reading of https://perldoc.perl.org/functions/crypt suggests that the notion that what Lantizia is doing ever worked is kind of accidental
16:19<Lantizia>really? worked a gem for years
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16:20<Lantizia>in fact I may have got it from adduser :P ironically
16:20<Lantizia>isn't that perl?
16:21<grawity>perl's crypt() does seem to be using the same system-wide crypt() i.e. from libxcrypt as other programs
16:21<tjcarter>it's perl, but perl isn't a language I speak
16:21<Lantizia>yyyup
16:21<grawity>but there's no guarantee that the "salt" field of every hash will always have the same format
16:22<Lantizia>but if adduser is calling the same perl function that I normally call manually - surely that means adduser won't generate a $y type password?
16:22<tjcarter>grawity: then it should be working because specifying -p provides the salt and hash verbatim
16:22<Hash>you may need pepper the hash
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16:23<Hash>You can keep your pepper in a pepper shaker apart from the same medium holding data
16:25<Hash>Also if you need more info
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16:25<Hash>Come to #security on libera.chat
16:25<Lantizia>You lost me at pepper
16:25<Hash>Also #crypto
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16:26<Hash>:)
16:26<Hash>Lantizia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_(cryptography) a small desc.
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16:26<Lantizia><grawity> perl's crypt() does seem to be using the same system-wide crypt() ...
16:27<Lantizia>if that's the case - you'd think it'd understand $y in the digest?
16:27<Hash>I gotta go study. I saw my nick highlighted :D
16:27<grawity>so, it looks like the 2nd field of yescrypt hashes is in fact not the salt
16:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 1022] by debhelper
16:28<grawity>it's packed binary parameters
16:28<Lantizia>grawity, so I shouldn't be passing 16 random chars to it?
16:28<grawity>you shouldn't
16:28<Lantizia>:)
16:28<Lantizia>instead I should pass binary? somehow?
16:28<grawity>still no
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16:28<grawity>you shouldn't be passing random data in that place in general
16:29<grawity>I'm trying to understand what goes there exactly and where the actual salt (if any) goes
16:29<grawity>but crypt_gensalt() from libcrypt.so would be the "official" thing
16:30<Lantizia>it's almost like I think you're saying what I've been doing for years (to make sha512 passwords) shouldn't have been working... but it completely and totally has for that entire time
16:30<grawity>it's almost like I'm not talking about sha512 at all
16:30<grawity>I'm talking about yescrypt because you were asking how to generate $y$ hashes
16:30<tjcarter>Lantizia: the format of that field is totally implementation dependent
16:31<grawity>and the $y$ format is *not the same* as the $1$ or $6$ format
16:32<tjcarter>so: How does one generate a string in that correct format without fuss?
16:32*Lantizia smiles at tjcarter
16:32<tjcarter>and presumably without non-essential dependencies
16:32<Lantizia>well I'm playing with mkpasswd - but haven't yet found the right options
16:32<tjcarter>if the latter question is "you can't", that's one thing.
16:32<Lantizia>but yeah if it can be done with perl again ... I'm all for that
16:33<tjcarter>the answer might not be perl
16:34<Lantizia>oh I'm all for that :)
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16:39<grawity>https://paste.rs/8u0
16:40<grawity>turns out, the easiest way to achieve what libxcrypt does is by calling libxcrypt
16:40<grawity>for yescrypt hashes, the 2nd field is the cost and the *3rd* field is the actual salt
16:41<grawity>WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN THAT OF SHA512 HASHES. to be completely clear.
16:42<grawity>the script deals with bytestrings (the python equivalent of C char[]), so in order to get nice output, change it to print(hash.decode()) or print(salt.decode()) or whichever output you need
16:43<grawity>https://paste.rs/wdJ
16:43<grawity>also it leaks memory, shouldn't be an issue
16:44<Lantizia>lol, I'm in awe... but it's also hardly a one-liner like I was using :P
16:44<Lantizia>I had no doubts that cracking open a programming language and writing a small program would do it :P
16:45<Lantizia>But still in awe.. really :)
16:45<tjcarter>I think the answer is that there isn't currently a one-liner to do it that is in Essential: yes packages
16:45<tjcarter>not an easy one, at least
16:46<Lantizia>well can't I pass this 2nd cost field and the 3rd salt field to the same perl crypt function?
16:47<tjcarter>probably, unless or until it changes again
16:47<grawity>the format of existing hash types isn't going to change
16:47<tjcarter>(although you should've still been able to use the $6 version in bullseye from my understanding)
16:47<Lantizia>yeah I know $6 would still work :)
16:48<tjcarter>okay I misunderstood you as saying they didn't
16:48<grawity>and, I'm not saying you should go and install a Haskell compiler, but why is it that you need to do this with just Essential: yes
16:49<Lantizia>because it's something I use in a script very early on before anything gets decided about how that VM will ultimately get used
16:49<tjcarter>grawity: obviously the correct solution is to implement this program of yours in bf
16:49<Lantizia>I'd *love it* if adduser was a bit more advanced frankly :P
16:50<grawity>is the password static or is it randomly generated?
16:51<tjcarter>adduser is kind of a DWIM tool, using useradd is probably more correct
16:52<Lantizia>tjcarter, that's funny :) run 'man useradd'
16:52<Lantizia>"useradd is a low level utility for adding users. On Debian, administrators should usually use adduser(8) instead."
16:53<grawity>if it's static, just include the raw hash in your script
16:53<Lantizia>So we're being encouraged to use an inferior tool :)
16:53<grawity>who cares if it has the same salt on all VMs, better than including the actual password in the script that's in the VM
16:55<Lantizia>grawity, I would never use the same salt on all VMs
16:55<Lantizia>what gave you that impression?
16:56<Lantizia>hmm well it seems mkpasswd by default (i.e. give it nothing but the plaintext password) will make a $y password
16:57<Lantizia>so that's easy I guess - odd depending on 'whois' for that.. but I always install whois anyway :S
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16:59<grawity>it was originally written *for* authenticating WHOIS updates (e.g. submitting an update to RIPE via email), and to this day Md still seems slightly against spinning it off as a separate tool
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17:01<Lantizia>grawity, so is mkpassword making it's yescrypt's using normal crypt(3) ? the same thing I was calling indirectly with perl?
17:01<grawity>probably, yes
17:02<grawity>I don't know whether it has received any updates for libxcrypt
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17:08<Lantizia>right so libcrypt1 isn't really crypt any more
17:08<Lantizia>even though it's called 'libcrypt1' and installs 'libcrypt.so.1.1.0'... it's actually libxcrypt
17:08<Lantizia>confusing
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17:12<Lantizia>grawity, does it help that Md maintains both mkpasswd and libcrypt1 :P
17:12<Lantizia>s<grawity> I don't know whether it has received any updates for libxcrypt
17:12<Lantizia>yup :)
17:12<Lantizia>I think so lol
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17:13<debleb>I'm not able to install a package "python3-dev" apt generates 404 error
17:14<debleb>Then I compare the link to file in apt and what I see on debian packages site, they are different. Any idea what could cause this?
17:14<debleb>Using debian buster
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17:15<sney>debleb: apt update
17:15<sney>if you just did that, you may be hitting some cache shenanigans, try another mirror
17:15<debleb>yea, I did that
17:16<debleb>deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main
17:16<debleb>deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main
17:16<debleb>This is what I'm using
17:16<sney>right, so try a different mirror. like ftp.us.debian.org (or replace us with your country code)
17:16<sney>deb.debian.org uses a cdn which is *usually* reliable but there are some cases where it is not
17:16<debleb>Let me try
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17:19<debleb>Thank you @sney, that seems to have worked and I appreciate the explanation
17:19<sney>np
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17:32<Lantizia>grawity, tjcarter: in theory this should work (but doesn't)... perl -e'print crypt("'$susrpass'", "\$y\$j9T\$'$(tr -cd 'a-zA-Z0-9./'</dev/urandom|head -c22)'")'
17:32<Lantizia>as it passes the $j9T option and a 22 char salt... just like mkpasswd (and the debian installer when it makes the default users) does
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17:35<tjcarter>Lantizia: I disagree with the opinion in man useradd since adduser is a Debian-specific tool and useradd is not.
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17:58<Lantizia>also isn't this meant to exist? https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/manpages/crypt.3.en.html
17:59<tjcarter>the C function? Sure.
17:59<tjcarter>Supposedly the perl function is a wrapper for that.
17:59<Lantizia>no i mean on this debian 11 VM of mine 'man crypt' does nothing
17:59<Lantizia>and it's not on manpages.debian.org either
18:00<tjcarter>manpages-dev
18:00<Lantizia>yeah I tried getting that and it didn't look right
18:00<Lantizia>and still nothing for 'man crypt'
18:00<tjcarter>"didn't look right"?
18:01<tjcarter>I have it here, and it's in manpages-dev, I checked
18:01<Lantizia>ah there is 'man xcrypt' though
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18:04<Lantizia>tjcarter, crypt.3.gz isn't in manpages-dev
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18:04<Lantizia>but xcrypt.3.gz is - that what you mean?
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18:06<tjcarter>I misread, you're correct
18:07<tjcarter>it's in libcrypt-dev
18:07<tjcarter>which does make sense as you'd need libcrypt-dev to provide the headers.
18:07<tjcarter>it was xcrypt I was looking at
18:08<Lantizia>right but that's the one that didn't look correct
18:08<Lantizia>normally the 'man crypt' page says 'linux programmer's manual' at the top
18:08<Lantizia>the libcrypt-deb one says "BSD Library Functions Manual"
18:09<Lantizia>as though it's a completely different function with just a similar name
18:10<tjcarter>it's the function that exists in libcrypt on Debian
18:10<Lantizia>yeah I guess it must just be a consequence of swapping to xcrypt
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18:15<Lantizia>tjcarter, btw I've got that original perl working
18:15<Lantizia>but oddly only in a 1 in 30 chance :)
18:16<Lantizia>perl -e'print crypt("'$susrpass'", "\$y\$j9T\$'$(tr -cd 'a-zA-Z0-9./'</dev/urandom|head -c22)'")'
18:16<Lantizia>there is something about the salt it doesn't like *most* of the time... but run it often enough... and you'll get a working one
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18:16<Lantizia>VERY odd :)
18:17<Lantizia>grawity, I don't suppose you know if yescrypt is fussier about it's salts do you? e.g. would any old 22 char length of a-Z 0-9 . / work?
18:18*Lantizia wonders if it tests to see if the salt is random enough
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18:19<Lantizia>just ran is 41 times - worked 6 times :)
18:20<Lantizia>*it
18:20<tjcarter>doesn't seem reliable compared to mkpasswd
18:21<Lantizia>yeah, and if libcrypt/xcrypt/whatever is testing the salt for randomness... then there is no way I can fix that in a perl one-liner really
18:22<Lantizia>tjcarter, you know the man page for mkpasswd... keeps talking about 'TYPE' (which is underlined) ... like I should be looking at another man page for a list of TYPE's that it can generate... no idea where I should find that though - any ideas?
18:22<Lantizia>I thought maybe in 'man crypt' which is why I was after it
18:24<tjcarter>-m help
18:24<Lantizia>ah!
18:25<tjcarter>the default appears to be what you're after
18:27<Lantizia>tjcarter, interesting how it picks a salt length of 22 - just like what the installer uses
18:27<Lantizia>unless yescrypt only expects a salt length of 22
18:36<burrows>dropbear (initramfs) doesn't reconnect to interface when network connection goes down and comes back up again
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19:26<Lantizia>tjcarter, grawity, got it working :)
19:26<Lantizia>perl -e'print crypt("'$susrpass'", "\$y\$j9T\$'$(dd if=/dev/urandom bs=15 count=1 2>/dev/null|base64 -w0|tr '+' '.'|head -c22)'")'
19:26<Lantizia>and no dependency on whois required :P lol
19:28<Lantizia>simpler...
19:28<Lantizia>perl -e'print crypt("'$susrpass'", "\$y\$j9T\$'$(dd if=/dev/urandom bs=15 count=1 2>/dev/null|base64 -w0|tr '+' '.')'")'
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19:30<Lantizia>simpler still...
19:30<Lantizia>perl -e'print crypt("bob", "\$y\$j9T\$'$(head -c15 /dev/urandom|base64 -w0|tr '+' '.')'")'
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20:58<enigma>https://i.imgur.com/3dRtmgm.jpg So I'm not sure what's going on.
20:58<enigma>I'm having trouble installing a package, I think its related to something from bullseye-backports preventing something else installing, but I don't understand well enough how to resolve it.
20:58<somiaj>can you use an actual paste bin and not an image, paste.debian.net or termbin
20:58<somiaj>!termbin
20:58<dpkg>you can paste to termbin.com from terminal with redirections: try 'nc termbin.com 9999 < /path/to/file', or 'command | nc termbin.com 9999'
20:59<enigma>I could, but pretty sure you can also view an image.
20:59<enigma>So pretty much waste of time.
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20:59<enigma>If you cannot view images, don't.
21:00<somiaj>Thre is no need to share an image for text output, anyways, what does apt -t bullseye-backports -f install do?
21:01<somiaj>or in this case, it looks like you have some libs from backports, and trying to install the -dev libs from stable, so you need to change the pinning with -t bullseye-backports in your install line
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21:02<vdamewood>enigma: So, if someone could help you, but can't view images, you'd rather they not help you?
21:02<enigma>It tells me"0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 36 not upgraded."
21:02<enigma>Corred vdam.
21:02<enigma>correct
21:02<enigma>if they cant viewanimage, i dont need their help
21:02<enigma>cuz thats like 0.0005% of people
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21:02<enigma>pretty sure one of the 99.99995% can handle it
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21:03<enigma>Somaj, i did try that I believe.
21:03<enigma>Thats what I thought putting the "-t bullseye-backports" does?or am I wrong?
21:05<somiaj>Sometimes people need to copy/paste from users output, and you can't do that from an image
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21:06<enigma>Indeed, you're right that would be a benefit.
21:06<somiaj>anyways, you might have to manually go down the dependency tree and hand hold this to install since it appears you are mixing libs from bullseye and bullseye-backports
21:06<somiaj>also most don't want to load an image here, just best to get use to text output if you can provide it.
21:07<enigma>I can try that next time. I just did it the easy way, firs ttime asking for help here, and having ot load a browser and find a paste site etc a hassle, when I can just hit printscreen thenrightclick/upload to imgur in my photo editor (ephoto)
21:07<somiaj>,v libatspi2.0-0
21:07<judd>Package: libatspi2.0-0 on amd64 -- stretch: 2.22.0-6+deb9u1; stretch-backports: 2.30.0-7~bpo9+1; buster: 2.30.0-7; stretch-backports-sloppy: 2.36.0-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 2.38.0-4~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.38.0-4; buster-backports-sloppy: 2.40.3-3~bpo10+1; bookworm: 2.40.3-3; sid: 2.40.3-3
21:08<somiaj>also it appears you have a bookwork/sid package installed or wanting to be installed, 2.40.3-3 is not a bullseye or bullseye-backport version
21:08<somiaj>what is 'apt policy libatspi2.0-0'
21:08<enigma>I kinda thought mixing stuff from bullseye-backports into bullseye was generally safe. I guess not.
21:08<somiaj>but from what i see you have mixed some stable and testing and this makes things even a bit bigger mess
21:09<somiaj>enigma: it usually is, there are some issues, though the version being reported is a testing/unstable version, so as to why a version not in bullseye or bullseye-backports wants to be installed sounds like you have some other mixing
21:10<enigma>http://paste.debian.net/1210582/ is apt policy result
21:10<enigma>Hmmm I didnt think I added anything from testing.
21:10<enigma>Other than firefox.
21:10<somiaj>thanks, and that termbin command makes this a lot easier
21:10<enigma>But maybe I did accidentally.
21:10<somiaj>don't mix anything from testing, that will do it, you may have more things like this hiden
21:10<enigma>wait that wasnt testing
21:10<enigma>i didnt add anything from testing
21:10<somiaj>but you have the testing version 2.40.3-3 installed
21:10<enigma>firefox came from unstable
21:10<somiaj>well testing/unstable, they are the same version right now
21:11<somiaj>so mixing unstable has probably put your system in a state where you will have other issues like this hiding around and need to go fix it
21:11<somiaj>if you want firefox (and not firefox-esr), download the binary from mozilla.org and install it in $HOME or myabe /opt
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21:12<somiaj>this is also why we say do not mix testing/unstable with stable. It isn't firefox that is the issue, it is the libs it depends on being the issue which breaks other things.
21:13<somiaj>and by mix, we do mean any package (though if you are positve every depend down the depend chain can be met in stable, you can get away with it, it is just easier to say do not mix)
21:13<enigma>Ah ok lesson learned. That's probably what happened then, although I did pin priority unstable at 10, so I thought that meant nothing would get installed from there (unless it didnt exist elsehwere)
21:13<somiaj>apt install libatspi2.0-0=2.40.3-3~bpo11+1
21:14<somiaj>depends get pulled in during the install point even with pinning if they are needed
21:14<somiaj>I personally find firefox-esr fine, and in say 3-4 months I suspect the new esr to make it to stable, which is close to the current version now
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21:15<somiaj>but if you want the newer firefox, the binary from mozilla.org works fine, you just need to manage the install outside of dpkg, and $HOME or /opt are decent places to put it
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21:15<somiaj>I think if you put it in $HOME, it can even update itself when a new one is released
21:16<enigma>Yeah I understand how to use the mozilla one and will use that. Now Im just deciding if I should wipe and start over, this is not a very old install and if I've already messed things up now this will just be problelms forever.
21:16<enigma>btw i did install what you suggested, it worked, but still cant install the original package i wanted to install (same error as jpg)
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21:21<somiaj>you may have to track down each package that is of the wrong version
21:21<somiaj>!not available
21:21<dpkg>To get a list of packages you have installed now, that are not available from any repository in your sources.list: aptitude search '?narrow(?not(?archive("^[^n][^o].*$")),?version(CURRENT))'
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21:22<somiaj>if you run that aptitude command it should list every package you have installed that is not the same version as avaialble in your sources.list, then manually downgrade them
21:22<grid>can't you just do 'aptitude search ~o' ?
21:22<grid>not 100% equivalent i guess but a lot easier to remember
21:22<somiaj>grid: these packages are not obsolete since they are in the sources.list, just different version
21:22<somiaj>!downgrade
21:22<dpkg>Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
21:22<somiaj>!manual downgrade
21:22<somiaj>one second, let me search for another factoid
21:23<somiaj>!partial downgrade
21:23<dpkg>This may or may not work for you, but if you've got nothing to lose then try it: (a) change sources.list (b) aptitude update (c) aptitude and then search for the upgraded packages, hit enter on them, select the correct version (d) do the same for libc6 (e) search for broken packages by pressing "b" and then fix them in the same way (f) once you have no more broken packages, hit 'g'. See <not available>.
21:23<somiaj>enigma: ^^ you might be able to follow that too to downgrade all of the packages which you installed with firefox to the version in bullseye (or bullseye-backports)
21:23<somiaj>so what you have should be fixable without a full reinstall
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21:30<enigma>I have installed aptitude (never used that before) and ran that comamnd above, trying to understand.
21:31<enigma>It seems to be a search command, but you said it will list them and downgrade them? or you mean it lists them then I need to downgrade them
21:31<somiaj>yea aptitude is both a cli and curses ui, the first one should just give you a list if you want to just manually work through it
21:31<somiaj>correct
21:31<somiaj>the second one gives you a curses ui you can use to maybe help a bit if you have tons of packages, my guess is you only have a handfull of libs to fix
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21:33<enigma>that list seems to include things i dont even have installed
21:34<enigma>or i dunno confusing me but ok thanks much
21:34<somiaj>firefox has tons of depends, anyways
21:36<sussudio>over 9000?
21:37<enigma>Less.
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21:40<enigma>Okay resolved.
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21:41<enigma>Thanks. I had to "sudo apt install libatspi2.0-0=2.38.0-4" then everything works again.
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21:42<somiaj>good work
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22:59<twb>Is there something like sudo, but only grants the additional privileges I need for that one command?
22:59<twb>The specific case I'm thinking of is "sudo tshark" when really I only need CAP_NET_RAW or something
23:00<dvs>twb: sudo
23:01<dvs>oh, only specific priviledges for a command? not that I know of.
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23:01<twb>I could do it via a systemd unit but my use case is more ad-hoc
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23:01<twb>I can probably do it with bwrap or unshare but those are head-hurty
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23:03<twb>Part of the rationale is it's very dangerous to run tshark/wireshark as root, but it's also dangerous to permanently leave my regular user with capture privs
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23:04<twb>One workaround in the wireshark-specific case is to extcap ssh back to localhost, but... yuk
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23:07<jmcnaught>Maybe systemd-run?
23:07<somiaj>with sudoers file you can limit it to escilating privateges for exactly one command?
23:07<somiaj>there is also setuid bit and then limit that to a group who can excecute the command
23:08<somiaj>but unsure if it is possible to only escilate certain parts of a command, but with sudo you can make it so it can only escilate for exact command and options run
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23:10<twb>somiaj: you can remove EXEC but that's not exactly the same thing
23:11<twb>somiaj: as I said earlier I don't even want setuid, I want CAP_NET_RAW
23:11<twb>somiaj: I could add that to the tshark binary -- but then ANY process can capture all packets
23:12<twb>(It mght not be exactly CAP_NET_RAW; I haven't bothered to work out the exact privs it needs)
23:15<aloo_shu>maybe firejail can do it?
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 06 00:00:26 2021