| --- | Log | opened Mon Sep 06 00:00:26 2021 |
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| 02:41 | <Dami> | Hello everyone, |
| 02:41 | <Dami> | I would like to ask if there is a mechanism for checking compatibility of open source protocols on debian |
| 02:42 | <selckin> | what are open source protocols |
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| 02:46 | <Dami> | Or for example, my program uses GPLv3. Is there a mechanism to detect whether the open source protocol of the dependent library I use is compatible? |
| 02:46 | <raven523> | do you mean the license? |
| 02:46 | <raven523> | not protocol? |
| 02:46 | <Dami> | yes |
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| 02:47 | <raven523> | I'm not sure. I think I heard of some license checking servive, but I can't remember its name, and I don't know if there's a version for Debian. Someone else here might know |
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| 02:49 | <Dami> | raven523：Thanks |
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| 02:49 | <selckin> | the lawyers usually aren't even sure, so now there is automation, except the obvious bits |
| 02:50 | <selckin> | search for 'free software license' gonna be more relevant then anything with protocol |
| 02:50 | <raven523> | the Linux Foundation does sponsor some tools for this: https://compliance.linuxfoundation.org/references/tools/ |
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| 02:52 | <Dami> | raven523：i will try , thank you |
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| 02:57 | <twb> | Dami: if you do not distribute Debian itself, you are probably OK |
| 02:57 | <twb> | Dami: if Debian gives you software that Debian wasn't licensed to, Debian is in trouble -- not you |
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| 03:00 | <Dami> | twb：Thanks i know |
| 03:01 | <Dami> | I just want to make sure that there is no problem with my program |
| 03:02 | <twb> | Are you distributing your program to your customers? |
| 03:02 | <twb> | Dami: or do you just run it on your own systems? |
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| 03:03 | <Dami> | Need to distribute, I know the GPL |
| 03:03 | <twb> | OK |
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| 03:04 | -!- | mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift |
| 03:04 | <twb> | Dami: so you basically just want to say something like this? "my GPL'd program uses libcurl, libzstd, and libpg5 -- how do I check the licenses of those three libraries?" |
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| 03:05 | <somiaj> | Dami: every debian package contains license info in /usr/share/packagename/copyright |
| 03:06 | <twb> | If that is your goal, work out the package name, then check /usr/share/doc/<package name>/copyright. Many/most are machine-readable in "DEP-5" format. |
| 03:06 | <somiaj> | arg /usr/share/doc/packagename/copyright (forgot doc) |
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| 03:06 | -!- | TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian.or.at #debian-next #security #debian |
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| 03:07 | <Dami> | twb:Yes, I would also like to know whether there is such a license compatibility mechanism, and whether it can automatically detect and give solutions to license incompatibility |
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| 03:07 | <twb> | Dami: as far as I know, there is no automatic mechanis |
| 03:08 | <Dami> | somiaj: I know this too, thank you |
| 03:08 | <twb> | Prior to GPL3, things licensed as GPL2+ really only had to watch out for OpenSSL |
| 03:08 | <twb> | Now that GPL3 isn't a universal receiver, it's messy and I don't have a good answer |
| 03:09 | <twb> | Dami: sorry if we are telling you things you already know -- I'm not sure exactly which bit of info you are missing :-( |
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| 03:10 | <PaddyF> | Dami: are you looking for something like this: https://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html |
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| 03:18 | <Dami> | My English is not good, maybe it was not good just now, as twb said,my GPL'd program uses libcurl, libzstd, and libpg5 .etc,Is there a license compatibility regulation, and is the license used by my program compatible with the license of the dependent library? |
| 03:19 | <twb> | actually... |
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| 03:19 | <twb> | if you hold copyright over your own program, then it doesn't matter |
| 03:20 | <twb> | Because you, the copyright owner, don't need a license to distribute copies |
| 03:20 | <twb> | And anything in Debian that your app is using, will be DFSG-compliant and therefore OK under its own license |
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| 03:21 | <umlaeute> | what's the minimum disk-space required for a Debian-11 installation? one of my VMs (running an NFS-client, ssh, a slapd-proxy and fail2ban) used to work fine with 2GB of disk since about a decade (always upgrading the system). the upgrade process has become increasingly more difficult due to the disk constraints (e.g. in buster i had to remove /lib/modules/* before installing a new kernel), but now in |
| 03:21 | <umlaeute> | bullseye i'm down to about 150MB free space, which makes it almost impossible to even run "apt update". |
| 03:21 | <Dami> | twb:But my program will depend on other libraries, and other libraries have their own licenses |
| 03:22 | <umlaeute> | the system is a login server, which i would like to keep as restricted as possible, that's why i want to keep available disk super low |
| 03:22 | <twb> | Dami: right but those have to be allowed -- otherwise Debian could not give them to you |
| 03:22 | <somiaj> | umlaeute: 2gig is stated as the minimum in the docs, but a lot depends on what you install and run, and other data. |
| 03:22 | <twb> | umlaeute: I can calculate that fairly easily |
| 03:22 | <twb> | umlaeute: do you need NFSv4 support? If not, klibc-utils has a NFSv3-only client |
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| 03:23 | <twb> | umlaeute: sshguard can protect e.g. nginx without needing fail2ban's python3 dependency |
| 03:23 | <Dami> | twb:Dealing with debian, I also want to publish on other linux systems, I think this is a problem that needs my attention |
| 03:23 | <umlaeute> | somiaj: as i said: i need NFS, ssh-daemon, slapd and fail2ban |
| 03:24 | <umlaeute> | twb: i don't even have a webserver; it's only an ssh server. but i guess "sshguard" might be able to protect that just as well... |
| 03:24 | <twb> | umlaeute: it can. Also tinysshd lets you not ship an ssh client |
| 03:24 | <twb> | unless you need SFTP. I recommend rsync instead. |
| 03:24 | <umlaeute> | need sftp. and and ssh-client (so people can hop off the login server) |
| 03:25 | <umlaeute> | ah yes: and then there is remote logging (i use syslog-ng), and I use rkhunter/tripwire to check the system's integrity |
| 03:25 | <twb> | umlaeute: does syslog-ng implement RELP, or only syslog? |
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| 03:25 | <somiaj> | umlaeute: have you checked where your space is being used, are you getting lots of logs taking space in /var? I did a standard system utilities install of debian bullseye yesterday, it took 750megs, so maybe you have other stuff taking up space you can use to trim things down (though upgrading from buster->bullseye you might want to add extra space just for downloading the packages) |
| 03:26 | <umlaeute> | iirc, i still log via udp; so not very RELP |
| 03:26 | <umlaeute> | somiaj: no; unfortunately it is mosly /usr/lib/ |
| 03:26 | <Tj> | umlaeute: if the only issues is during upgrades, what's stopping you increasing the VM's storage space, resizing the file system to use the new space, do the install, clean up, then shrink it again? |
| 03:26 | <twb> | I highly recommend RELP which is easy with rsyslog |
| 03:27 | <twb> | Ugh no sshguard in stable because reasons |
| 03:27 | <twb> | I guess you'll just have to live with fail2ban for now |
| 03:27 | <twb> | umlaeute: is slapd-proxy just slapd package? |
| 03:27 | <umlaeute> | twb: ad slapd: yes |
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| 03:28 | <umlaeute> | twb: right; my logging machine uses syslog-ng; anything that can send logging to it is welcome (so: i don't really need "syslog-ng" on my minimal system) |
| 03:29 | <twb> | then busybox-syslogd |
| 03:29 | <twb> | except that is not compatible with systemd anymore because reasons |
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| 03:29 | <twb> | so realistically your best option is rsyslogd or syslog-ng |
| 03:29 | <umlaeute> | Tj: hmm yes; never through about that. for what it is worth: i somehow managed to update buster->bullsyeye on that machine; only now it is giving me troubles |
| 03:29 | <twb> | mmdebstrap bullseye /tmp/delete-me.squashfs --variant=apt --include=linux-image-generic,init,live-boot,openssh-server,nfs-common,fail2ban,slapd ==> 152MiB (after compression) |
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| 03:30 | * | themill wonders what kernel "-generic" matches |
| 03:31 | <twb> | Before compression, 784MiB |
| 03:31 | <twb> | themill: on amd64, -amd64 |
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| 03:31 | <Dami> | PaddyF：dfsg-faq is usefull thanks |
| 03:31 | <twb> | umlaeute: you can save a little bit by stripping out the documentation, and using a VM-only kernel, or no kernel (and a container) |
| 03:32 | <twb> | cloud-only makes 784MiB drop to 515MiB |
| 03:32 | <umlaeute> | that might be an interesting option. |
| 03:32 | <themill> | twb: ah, that has a Provides now, very handy |
| 03:32 | <twb> | themill: /me nods vigorously |
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| 03:33 | <umlaeute> | i think i setup the original VM when the cloud-kernels were not a thing yet. |
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| 03:34 | <twb> | https://github.com/cyberitsolutions/bootstrap2020/blob/messing-with-zfs/debian-11-minimal.py is a complete script that emits a 256MB EFI image |
| 03:34 | <mama> | www.google.lt |
| 03:34 | <twb> | Note that if you use live-boot like this, you need a bit more RAM |
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| 03:35 | <twb> | If your goal is "harden the system" more than "more code = more bad", then I also strongly encourage you to look at "systemd-analyze security" and possibly also "aa-genprof" |
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| 03:35 | <twb> | Having either of those confining your daemons is a quick and easy way to provide a layer of paranoia hardening |
| 03:36 | <umlaeute> | thanks. and yes: hardening is the core idea |
| 03:36 | <twb> | Here is an example web app written in C, that is fully hardened (e.g. not allowed to make TCP connections) https://github.com/trentbuck/collection4/blob/main/debian/service |
| 03:37 | <twb> | If you're *REALLY* paranoid, like, you're making an air-to-ground missile, I recommend seL4 |
| 03:37 | <umlaeute> | not there yet |
| 03:38 | <Tj> | umlaeute: you could also add an exclusion to dpkg so docs/man etc don't get installed at all, e.g. https://paste.debian.net/1210600/ |
| 03:41 | <umlaeute> | Tj: sidenote: i always wondered why this isn't enabled in the docker images by default (together with APT::Get::Assume-Yes). |
| 03:41 | <umlaeute> | or is it, these days? |
| 03:41 | <umlaeute> | with "the docker images" i mean: "the official Debian docker images" |
| 03:42 | <twb> | Oh and my company knows lots about this, so if you have lots of money you can hire us: https://cyberitsolutions.com.au |
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| 03:43 | <tarzeau> | twb: hardening or sel4? |
| 03:43 | <twb> | tarzeau: the former. |
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| 03:44 | <twb> | umlaeute: those things aren't done in the official images because there are legitimate reasons to not want them. For example, if you don't speak English :-) |
| 03:44 | <umlaeute> | fair enough. |
| 03:45 | <twb> | Alpine Linux can get smaller than Debian, if you don't need glibc |
| 03:45 | <raven523> | a lot of stuff that needs glibc does work with musl if you have gcompat |
| 03:45 | <twb> | on NTOSkrnl it's like 7MB vs. 70MB |
| 03:46 | <twb> | I can't vouch for Alpine's security team though |
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| 03:47 | <twb> | raven523: IIUC that is for when you don't have source access to the problem daemon? |
| 03:47 | <raven523> | yes, or for something that depends on glibc-specific behavior or functionality |
| 03:48 | <twb> | But like, if you have source, you just recompile with musl-gcc? |
| 03:48 | <twb> | Or is gcompat still useful there? |
| 03:48 | <raven523> | you can recompile against musl, but that may cause problems for programs that need specific extensions that are specific to glibc |
| 03:48 | <twb> | Righto |
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| 03:49 | <twb> | So far in my limited experience, when I've hit problems I've just said "OK, $project gets Debian" instead of trying to debug them :-) |
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| 04:01 | <rogr> | morning chaps |
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| 04:03 | <bolnav[m]> | Hello. Why does aptitude upgrading libreoffice-<various pkgs> from bullseye to backports see a pakcage conflict? Pure Debian with standard sources.list, etc. http://paste.debian.net/1210606/ |
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| 04:04 | <bolnav[m]> | I don't understand the logic. It first complains about libuno-sal3 (why?) but later it still proposes to upgrade it. |
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| 04:06 | <bolnav[m]> | Instead, if the problem is that a new package would be installed libbox2d2.3.0, then why mentioning libuno-sal3 at all |
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| 04:07 | <somiaj> | bolnav[m]: its due to pinning, so any depends won't be automatically pulled in from backports |
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| 04:08 | <somiaj> | personally I suggest installing the stable version, 'apt install libreoffice', then upgrading it to backports, 'apt -t bullseye-backports install libreoffice', note the -t bullseye-backports changes the pinning for that run so it can then pull in the depends it needs |
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| 04:08 | <somiaj> | the reason I do this in two steps is to only get the depends in backports that are mandatory, installed of all possible |
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| 04:09 | <somiaj> | though note, you could just add a -t bullseye-backports to your aptitude command and it should work. |
| 04:09 | <themill> | is there actually a version in bullseye-backports yet? |
| 04:10 | <themill> | rmadison says yes and judd says know... I wonder if judd needs a kick |
| 04:10 | <themill> | dpkg, fix judd |
| 04:10 | * | dpkg takes judd to the vet for a "special" visit. |
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| 04:19 | <bolnav[m]> | somiaj, thanks |
| 04:19 | <bolnav[m]> | With -t it complains about two packages from the same src:libreoffice, but then it also allows to upgrade them. I will choose this option. For curiosity, it's because they are reverse dependencies, and is there a way to have aptitude be silent about this also? http://paste.debian.net/1210611/ |
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| 04:24 | <FH_thecat> | I just need to empty /proc/kmsg |
| 04:24 | <FH_thecat> | when I do: cat /proc/kmsg > /var/log/kmesg |
| 04:24 | <FH_thecat> | it hangs |
| 04:24 | <FH_thecat> | presumably waiting for more data |
| 04:24 | <FH_thecat> | how can I tell cat to finish after reading last line ? |
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| 04:25 | <themill> | ,v libreoffice --release bullseye-backports |
| 04:25 | <judd> | Package: libreoffice on amd64 -- bullseye-backports: 1:7.1.5-2~bpo11+1 |
| 04:25 | <themill> | that's better |
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| 04:30 | <Dami> | Hello everyone, my software uses GPLv3 and the dependent library uses GPLv2. According to https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility, it is incompatible. Is there any way to deal with it? |
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| 04:31 | <raven523> | is the dependent library GPLv2 only, or is it GPLv2 or later? |
| 04:32 | <Dami> | only GPLv2 |
| 04:32 | <raven523> | you have to change your license or fidn another library to use |
| 04:33 | <raven523> | or ask the copyright holders to change their license |
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| 04:34 | <Dami> | Can I modify the cpp file that uses the dependent library to GPLv2? |
| 04:34 | <raven523> | no. It's still linked with the rest of your work, so the whole work has to be GPLv2 compatible |
| 04:35 | <Dami> | Or whether my program supports GPLv3 and GPLv2 at the same time |
| 04:35 | <raven523> | you can't support both |
| 04:35 | <raven523> | wait, no |
| 04:35 | <raven523> | you can license your code under GPLv2 only |
| 04:36 | <themill> | think of it as a Venn diagram... there has to be a region of overlap where all the licences agree. |
| 04:36 | <raven523> | GPLv2 or later is not valid because it links to GPLv2 only code |
| 04:36 | <azeem> | Dami can relicense (if possible) their code to GPLv2+, that would be enough |
| 04:37 | <azeem> | though in practise it would means it is distributed as GPLv2 due to the dependency |
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| 04:39 | <Dami> | If I don’t change my license, which means that I cannot use this GPLv2 dependent library, right? |
| 04:39 | <raven523> | correct |
| 04:39 | <themill> | You can use it, you can't distribute it |
| 04:40 | <twb> | somiaj: your -t bullseye-backports is short, but SLIGHTLY dangerous -- new deps will preferentially be fulfilled from backports |
| 04:40 | <Dami> | themill:I just need to distribute |
| 04:41 | <twb> | somiaj: I would do that with show versions on, and eyeball it. |
| 04:41 | <twb> | somiaj: for scripting, I hard-code all the intermediaries I want to come from backports :-( |
| 04:41 | <somiaj> | twb: I know, but it is the suggested way to install software from backports, hence why I said first install from stable, then upgrae to backports only installing what is required from backports. |
| 04:41 | <themill> | Dami: in that case, you need compatible licences |
| 04:41 | <Dami> | OK, thanks |
| 04:41 | <twb> | http://ix.io/3y5z <-- ugleeee |
| 04:42 | <somiaj> | imo pinning doens't fully allow for some of the subtilies of installing software from backports |
| 04:43 | <somiaj> | but in general if you install stable first, then upgrade to the backport version, it should only install what is needed, since it won't pull in new packages if the depends are already met |
| 04:46 | <Dami> | If I use a dependency library that relies on GPLv2 and release it, what will be the consequences |
| 04:47 | <raven523> | if your code is GPLv2, then it's ok |
| 04:47 | <raven523> | if your code is not GPLv2 then the library's authors can sue you for copyright infringement |
| 04:48 | <scorpion2185[m]> | what happened to revolt? the webkit process goes to 90% CPU |
| 04:48 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I can't use it |
| 04:48 | <twb> | somiaj: you're assuming that frobozz/bullseye and frobozz/bullseye-backports have identical/similar Depends |
| 04:49 | <twb> | As a specific counter-example I hit today, python3-scrapy has ~5 changes to Depends. If any of those ALSO had backports, you'd inadvertently get those |
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| 05:00 | <otisolsen70> | I am upgrading from buster -> bullseye. I did s/buster/bullseye/g in /etc/apt/sources.list and now have this: https://paste.yt/p17316.html But this fails with 404 on Err:3 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye/updates Release |
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| 05:00 | <otisolsen70> | So what line in source.list do I need to change into what? |
| 05:01 | <raven523> | replace "bullseye/updates" with "bullseye-security" |
| 05:01 | <otisolsen70> | Thanks! |
| 05:02 | <twb> | otisolsen70: you should read the Release Notes |
| 05:03 | <twb> | https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/arm64/release-notes/index.en.html |
| 05:03 | <jm_> | chapter 4.7.2 |
| 05:03 | <otisolsen70> | twb, I did. But I missed this part. |
| 05:03 | <jm_> | 4.2.7 even |
| 05:03 | <twb> | otisolsen70: ^ it has other important stuff, like what things aren't security supported |
| 05:03 | <otisolsen70> | Found it now. |
| 05:03 | <scorpion2185[m]> | new python3-matrix-nio fixs mirage |
| 05:03 | <twb> | otisolsen70: ok, cool |
| 05:03 | <twb> | otisolsen70: sorry to jump on you :-) |
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| 05:05 | <otisolsen70> | np, reading the release notes is good advice :) |
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| 05:17 | <Dami> | raven523：Hello. I have another question. My program relies on two libraries. Do I need to do a license compatibility test between these two libraries? |
| 05:17 | <raven523> | yes |
| 05:18 | <Dami> | How can I detect it? |
| 05:18 | <raven523> | you would have to read the licenses |
| 05:18 | <twb> | with great difficulty |
| 05:18 | <twb> | There's a big ol graph somewhere of what licenses can be used together |
| 05:19 | <twb> | with BSD0 at one end, and GPL2+ at the other end. |
| 05:21 | <Dami> | twb: Could you please provide me with it? |
| 05:22 | <twb> | Dami: I'd have to go find it |
| 05:23 | <Dami> | thank you very much |
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| 05:24 | <Dami> | I am also trying to find |
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| 05:25 | <Dami> | Except for ol graph, are there any other specifications used? |
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| 06:06 | <rojin> | Installing dwm along with nodm in a minimal install boots into dwm and doesnt respond to input? |
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| 06:37 | <ASC> | Hi! Please tell me: Is Partman have capability to leave untouched any pre-configured partitions? I.e., may I create additional partitions for installation and do not touch pre-configured ones at all? |
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| 06:38 | <twb> | ASC: yes, partman can create new partitions while leaving existing ones untouched, |
| 06:38 | <twb> | ASC: for example, if Windows is already installed, Debian can be installed without touching Windows partition |
| 06:41 | <EmleyMoor> | Any good way to read CPU temperature on the command line? |
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| 06:47 | <EmleyMoor> | I shall check the fans on my comms box later as it seems one may have failed. |
| 06:49 | <pert> | EmleyMoor: you might have acpitool already installed, try: acpitool --thermal |
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| 06:51 | <crawler_> | I use sensors from lm-sensors |
| 06:53 | <twb> | EmleyMoor: an easy to remember old command is "acpi --everything" |
| 06:53 | <twb> | The actual data lives in /sys where you can just "cat" it |
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| 06:55 | <bolnav[m]> | twb: wrt your link above, what about $(aptitude search '?installed ?source-package(libreoffice)' -F%p | tr '\n' ' ') |
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| 06:56 | <twb> | AFAICT all three of those packages are 1) super old; 2) not installed by default. Of the three, lm-sensors is probably the most sensible. |
| 06:57 | <twb> | bolnav[m]: that will install *everything* libreoffice creates, which is over 100 packages? |
| 06:57 | <twb> | bolnav[m]: oh never mind, I see |
| 06:57 | <twb> | bolnav[m]: yes that would probably work. The "tr" isn't needed. You also want --disable-columns |
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| 06:58 | <twb> | bolnav[m]: you'd need to shove /bullseye-backports on the end of each though. if you're doing -t bullseye-backports, that trick isn't needed at all |
| 06:59 | <EmleyMoor> | Looks like the temperature is on a slow but steady rise - so I will have to check fans later today |
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| 07:00 | <bolnav[m]> | I guess I do want backports deps as long as they come from the same libreoffice source package, but not deps coming from other source packages |
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| 07:15 | <rojin> | Hi, my client quit last time. I was trying to install dwm alongside nodm and after the automatic logging into dwm, my keyboard and mice dont work. |
| 07:16 | <rony> | EmleyMoor: a watter cooler on cpu and 1 or 2 fans to ensure flow of air for the graphics board is all you need. no pc will overheat aside inside a greenhouse. but if you want more fans keep coming. |
| 07:17 | <twb> | rojin: are you sure that's not just dwm doing what it does? |
| 07:17 | <twb> | rojin: by default, dwm does not bind many/any keys |
| 07:17 | <rojin> | I was able to get dwm working with lightdm. |
| 07:17 | <rojin> | I am thinking its nodm then. |
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| 07:19 | <rojin> | With nodm, I cant even switch to a tty. Had to do a few reinstalls. |
| 07:19 | <twb> | Did you try Ctrl+Alt+F1 all the way through to F7 ? |
| 07:19 | <twb> | X can start on unexpected ttys nowadays, not always F7 |
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| 07:21 | <rojin> | Tried from F1 to F6. Tried stopping X server with Ctrl+ALT+Backspace or DEL whatever that is. |
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| 07:21 | <rojin> | The system just doesnt respond. |
| 07:21 | <twb> | Ctrl+Alt+Backspace is disabled by default these days. Look up "DontZap" |
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| 07:22 | <twb> | rojin: only other thing I can suggest is to either SSH in, or "journalctl -b-1" to try to diagnose |
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| 07:29 | <Brigo> | it would be worth it to check /var/log/Xorg.0.log too. |
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| 08:31 | <Trooper> | Hi everybody |
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| 08:35 | <petn-randall> | hi Trooper |
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| 08:36 | <Trooper> | petn-randall, hi. Somebody can help me with a doubt? |
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| 08:39 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: It's best to just ask away, and someone knowing the answer will respond. |
| 08:42 | <Trooper> | petn-randall, thanks |
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| 08:44 | <Trooper> | I got an issue with the signatures verification since a couple of weeks ago |
| 08:45 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: Signatures for what exactly? There are many places where signatures are used. |
| 08:45 | <Trooper> | When I update the system, always appears the same message |
| 08:46 | <grove> | `apt update`? |
| 08:46 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: Ah, when you run `apt update` or something similar? |
| 08:46 | <Trooper> | grove that's right |
| 08:47 | <petn-randall> | !bat |
| 08:47 | <dpkg> | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 08:47 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: Can you provide all of the above in a single paste? ^^^ |
| 08:48 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 1034] by debhelper |
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| 08:49 | <grove> | If you get a message saying something is wrong/weird when running `apt update`, no packages are involved, so point 2 in there should be easy |
| 08:50 | <grove> | (But the apart from that I agree that it's a good step ahead) |
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| 08:56 | <Trooper> | Sorry, but I don't understand how to do the bat |
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| 08:57 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: Run `apt update` and `apt-cache policy`, and share that output with us on https://paste.debian.net/. |
| 08:57 | <Trooper> | Oki |
| 08:58 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: You can simply copy/paste the complete command + output to that URL and then send us the URL you get when you send it off. |
| 09:00 | <Trooper> | https://paste.debian.net/1210645 |
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| 09:01 | <Trooper> | Sorry the language, I speak spanish but in the spanish channel nobody answer. |
| 09:01 | <lyr> | Hi there. When will bullseye hit https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/openstack/ ? |
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| 09:02 | <grove> | !tell Trooper about localized errors |
| 09:04 | <grove> | !skype |
| 09:04 | <dpkg> | Skype is a proprietary cross-platform <VoIP> service and application owned by Microsoft. Debian cannot distribute the application due to its license. See http://wiki.debian.org/skype and ask me about <skype amd64> for community-contributed information. Consider using free and secure alternatives: <ekiga>, <empathy>, <jitsi>, <linphone>. |
| 09:05 | <grove> | I don't speak spanish, but the only thing looking unusual in there is the error about the skype repo. Look |
| 09:05 | <tuxmania> | Hi all. Is there a way to upgrade an old squeeze to Bullseye? I am not able to install anything on the machine (cannot reach squeeze mirrors anymore, and unable to update with bullseye sources list)? |
| 09:06 | <Trooper> | grove, you're right |
| 09:06 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: The error you're getting is from the skype repository. You'll need to ask the skype support what's broken here. But my guess is that you can "fix" this issue by downloading the .deb package from skype.com and reinstalling it. |
| 09:06 | <petn-randall> | Trooper: To explain: They're signing their repositories, and the key they use to sign it expired. Seems like a rookie mistake to me. |
| 09:06 | <grove> | (oops, bad pressing of <return> there) at microsoft pages for a new key, but first do yourself and the worls a favour and look at the alternatives dpkg mentioned |
| 09:08 | <Trooper> | grove and petn-randall thanks for your help. Have a nice day. |
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| 09:09 | <abrotman> | lyr: there's an email address on that page seems like maybe you'd ask? |
| 09:10 | <abrotman> | lyr: https://lists.debian.org/debian-openstack/2021/08/msg00001.html |
| 09:11 | <jm_> | tuxmania: not directly no - you can find old releases on the archive site |
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| 09:13 | <grove> | tuxmania: Squeeze is really ancient history, I'm not surprised it's not on the main mirrors anymore. It's probably still on archive.debian.org (look at https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive) if you want to use it. It should be possible to upgrade to Bullseye one major version at a time (i.e. Squeeze->Wheezy->Jessie->Stretch->Buster->Bullseye), but in total it will probably take much longer ... |
| 09:13 | <grove> | ... than a reinstall, and things might have changed more than once in between those versions giving you a hell making the intermediate steps work well enough that you can go on |
| 09:14 | <grove> | (nice line change my irssi plugin made there) |
| 09:14 | <tuxmania> | grove: thank you, I understand it. The problem I have is there is a VOIP Xivo on it, and would like to try an update without reinstalling all from scratch |
| 09:15 | <petn-randall> | tuxmania: I'd expect that you can simply reinstall that, too. |
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| 09:16 | -!- | lifthrasil is "lifthrasil" on #debian |
| 09:16 | <TheBigK> | Im running a debian based buildserver with jenkins installed. On that VM there are disks attached which are coming from fiber channel volumes... and sometimes there are literally thousands of those processes running temporary: https://paste.debian.net/1210646/ |
| 09:16 | <TheBigK> | does anyone have an idea what that could be ? |
| 09:16 | <tuxmania> | I guess my tiny little hope just disappeared! Thank you for your feedbacks |
| 09:16 | <grove> | !based on debian |
| 09:16 | <dpkg> | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 09:17 | <TheBigK> | im sorry, its debian. its not based debian ;) |
| 09:17 | <petn-randall> | tuxmania: Your hope for what exactly? Both options should work fine, reinstalling just might be less time-consuming. |
| 09:17 | <jm_> | those are kernel threads |
| 09:17 | <TheBigK> | its debian 10 atm... soonish |
| 09:17 | <TheBigK> | 11 |
| 09:17 | <TheBigK> | i know that those are kernel threads... but i dont know why they suddenly appear and then disappear |
| 09:18 | <grove> | You said "debian based", that can mean both, so I just wanted to be sure |
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| 09:18 | <TheBigK> | grove: completely fine with me, sorry for not describing better |
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| 09:20 | <grove> | I don't recall having seen process/threads named like that, but I generally don't look much at kernel threads |
| 09:21 | <tuxmania> | petn-randall: little hope for avoiding reinstall. But I have a very old debian, and a very old Xivo. Both need to be updated. I will try an update first as I am not sure to be able to reconfigure it as needed |
| 09:23 | <grove> | tuxmania: If you know where all it's config files are, you can probably just copy those, if any changes are necessary, changes are that you'll also have to make them in the upgrade process |
| 09:24 | <grove> | (But I've never heard of that xivo stuff before) |
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| 09:25 | <tuxmania> | grove: it is a VOIP server based on Asterisk |
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| 09:30 | <grove> | (I duckduckgo'ed my way to their homepage, but knowing that doesn't change the fact that I have no idea if the old config will work with a new version, but as it's software that is not in Debian's repo that might complicate an upgrade - to the point of the impossible) |
| 09:32 | <tuxmania> | yes, I might be closer to impossible than possible. Using a very old postgresql version also.. |
| 09:35 | <TheBigK> | im now a little closer to why this happens... its a build process that starts those kernel threads... the build process is creating docker images and doing stuff |
| 09:35 | <TheBigK> | im not quite sure whats going on... but i hope i can find out |
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| 09:47 | <lyr> | thanks abrotman |
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| 09:50 | -!- | Emrederseniz is "purple" on #debian |
| 09:52 | <Emrederseniz> | :) |
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| 09:58 | <TheBigK> | i decided that those kworker threads are just fine.. didnt see much a problem with it... changed the check that kernel threads are beeing omitted... thanks for your help :) |
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| 10:07 | <kidx> | hello |
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| 10:08 | -!- | chats is "Chetan Shah" on #debian |
| 10:08 | <petn-randall> | hi kidx |
| 10:08 | <kidx> | I am wondering how do i install the amd gpu drivers and corectrl on debian 11 |
| 10:08 | <petn-randall> | kidx: They come with the kernel, no need to install them extra. |
| 10:09 | <kidx> | are they propiatary? |
| 10:09 | <petn-randall> | no |
| 10:09 | <kidx> | ok what about corectrl |
| 10:09 | <kidx> | the mesa driver is out of date |
| 10:09 | <kidx> | latest is 21 somthing |
| 10:09 | <petn-randall> | kidx: What does corectrl do? It's not part of Debian AFAIK. |
| 10:10 | <kidx> | is allows me to control my gpu fan speed |
| 10:10 | <kidx> | also clock it |
| 10:10 | <chats> | Hello everyone. I need some advice. I'm changing my graphics card from an AMD HD5750 to an nVidia GT1030. Can I just swap the cards without making any prior software changes? |
| 10:10 | <kidx> | its a must for any amd gpu owner |
| 10:11 | <petn-randall> | kidx: Looks like a GUI to the already existing tuning knobs. Just install it from their website. |
| 10:11 | <petn-randall> | chats: yes |
| 10:11 | <kidx> | it wont install |
| 10:11 | <kidx> | I tried any way you can help? |
| 10:11 | <kidx> | maybe I am doing somthing wrong |
| 10:11 | <petn-randall> | kidx: At which part of the installation did you get stuck? |
| 10:12 | <kidx> | building it |
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| 10:12 | <chats> | thanks petn-randall. My card will arrive in a couple of days, I'll just swap them and hope nothing blows up! |
| 10:13 | <petn-randall> | kidx: Care to be a little more specific? |
| 10:13 | <kidx> | i download the source |
| 10:13 | <petn-randall> | kidx: You can for example show us the output of the build on https://paste.debian.net. |
| 10:13 | <kidx> | and try to build it nothing |
| 10:14 | <kidx> | i get errors |
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| 10:18 | <kidx> | https://paste.debian.net/1210651/ |
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| 10:19 | <petn-randall> | kidx: Are you following the steps from https://gitlab.com/corectrl/corectrl/-/wikis/Installation ? There's a list of software you need to install before building it. cmake is one of them. |
| 10:19 | <kidx> | yes |
| 10:20 | <kidx> | how do i install cmke |
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| 10:20 | <petn-randall> | kidx: The package is called 'cmake'. |
| 10:22 | <kidx> | https://paste.debian.net/1210653/ |
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| 10:24 | <petn-randall> | kidx: Did you install other the other things listed there? |
| 10:25 | <petn-randall> | They're not optional. |
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| 10:26 | <petn-randall> | *all the other things |
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| 10:27 | <kidx> | i am trying to install all |
| 10:27 | <kidx> | and see so far nothing |
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| 10:33 | <petn-randall> | kidx: I recommend you use aptitude and search for 'libqt' to list any Qt related libraries, and check if one of those applies to the list on their website. You will have to manually map the requirements to package names. |
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| 10:44 | <CrazyblocksTech> | I am currently on Debian Sid, how do I switch to the stable Bullseye release? |
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| 10:45 | <petn-randall> | CrazyblocksTech: You don't, downgrading is not supported. You can reinstall however. |
| 10:45 | <petn-randall> | !downgrade |
| 10:45 | <dpkg> | Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>. |
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| 10:45 | <CrazyblocksTech> | Oh, ok thank you |
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| 10:46 | -!- | schizo is "me without a mic is like a beat without a snare" on #oftc #linux #debian |
| 10:47 | <petn-randall> | CrazyblocksTech: You *can* try downgrading, and it might work, as the drift between bullseye and sid is quite small. But you might subtly break things you'll only notice in a few weeks/months, so it's safer to reinstall. |
| 10:48 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 1040] by debhelper |
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| 10:50 | -!- | Xaldafax is "X" on #debian #tor-project #debian-raspberrypi #tor #linux |
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| 10:54 | <ASC> | There is also capability of creating chrooted Debian of different releases. It may be not exactly a thing like installed instrance. However, one may use for paling with Sid and return back after all. Here it is - https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap |
| 10:54 | <ASC> | paling=playing |
| 10:55 | <CrazyblocksTech> | Planning to reinstall since it is going to be needed anyway soon |
| 10:56 | <petn-randall> | CrazyblocksTech: Cool! Feel free to ask here if you need help with that. |
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| 11:13 | <kidx> | trying to install all the libqt |
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| 11:18 | * | tjcarter redoes the whole aptitude theme because the defaults look like ass |
| 11:19 | <tjcarter> | Turns out the docs for the styles are out of date, hence why some of them don't work. The source is authoritative as usual. |
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| 11:19 | <tjcarter> | Aptitude's source is a complex nightmare of mostly undocumented code, of course. |
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| 11:23 | -!- | Tuxist is "Jan Koester,,," on #debian #linux |
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| 11:23 | -!- | bittin is "realname" on #debian @#debconf-kosovo |
| 11:24 | <kidx> | yea this is not install |
| 11:25 | <kidx> | Add the installation prefix of "Qt5Quick" to CMAKE_PREFIX_PATH or set |
| 11:25 | <kidx> | "Qt5Quick_DIR" to a directory containing one of the above files. If |
| 11:25 | <tjcarter> | !pastebin |
| 11:25 | <dpkg> | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 11:26 | <tjcarter> | Friendly reminder 🙂 |
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| 11:35 | <netcrash> | Did the report of this a few time ago , and had no reply to today. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=990357 any ideas? |
| 11:36 | <judd> | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/990357 in isc-dhcp-server (open): «Fwd: Issue with isc-dhcp-server init.d script»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-06-26; last modified: 2021-06-26. |
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| 11:38 | <kidx> | going to lay down |
| 11:38 | <kidx> | ill work on it more when i awake |
| 11:39 | <petn-randall> | netcrash: I would have put those into two different bug reports, as those are two distinct bugs. Since both bugs seem to apply to oldstable, I don't think they will be fixed there. But if they still apply to testing, chances are higher they'll still be fixed. |
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| 12:36 | <BCMM> | how long does it usually take for a message to appear on the bug tracker? trying to work out if i've done it wrong or am just being impatient |
| 12:38 | <pert> | BCMM: five minutes is plenty of time to wait, I think. did you use reportbug? |
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| 12:46 | <BCMM> | pert: can you use that for replies? i was trying to send a patch to #927786 |
| 12:46 | <judd> | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/927786 in wit (open): «wit: wfuse is not included anymore»; severity: important; opened: 2019-04-23; last modified: 2019-04-23. |
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| 12:48 | <pert> | BCMM: usually if you want to reply, you should just use 'Reply' in your email program (if you already have the bug in your inbox), or use the reply button on the web page |
| 12:48 | <BCMM> | pa_: i did the second one. just a plain-text email with a .patch attachment should be fine, right? |
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| 12:49 | -!- | tomaw is "Tom Wesley <tom@tomaw.net>" on #ovirt #OpenBSD @#oftc-tomaw #oftc #moocows #linux #linode #irssi #help #gentoo #perl |
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| 12:49 | <pert> | yup, that should open your regular email program. as long as that's set up correctly, it should work |
| 12:50 | <BCMM> | the mailto: link ain't the problem here. i've got it in my sent box and all that |
| 12:51 | <pert> | can you check what the To: address was? and what mail program are you using? |
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| 12:52 | <BCMM> | to 927786@bugs.debian.org with Roundcube |
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| 12:54 | <pert> | that looks alright. I would suggest trying to send it again, and if that doesn't work, contact owner@bugs.debian.org. they're the people that run it; you might be getting stuck in a spam filter or something |
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| 12:58 | -!- | bahamat is "Brian Bennett" on #debian |
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| 13:04 | <BCMM> | oh, i've got a bounce message from my own mail provider |
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| 13:04 | -!- | alex_ is "Alexander" on #debian |
| 13:04 | <BCMM> | (i forgot that i filter everything about bugs in to its own folder) |
| 13:04 | <BCMM> | sorry about that. i'll retry, and then bother mxroute about it if it won't let me |
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| 13:11 | <BCMM> | ugh, turns out this is why: https://freesocial.co/@mxroute/106859791369262396 |
| 13:12 | <BCMM> | now, i have no idea what the actual rfc says about this, but rspamd has taken a dislike to plain text that is unnecessarily encoded with base64 |
| 13:12 | <BCMM> | but it doesn't seem right for them to filter on that when *their own webmail service* does it! |
| 13:14 | <pert> | right? if they thought you were sending spam, why wouldn't they take a look into that and see about taking corrective action? I hope your mail provider comes to their senses |
| 13:16 | <bittin> | the Debconf 2021 group photo is now uploaded too its final destination: https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/share/debconf21/-/tree/master/group-photo |
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| 13:18 | -!- | mentor is "Matthew W.S. Bell" on #debian #contextshift |
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| 13:20 | <user_> | Hey there |
| 13:20 | <HAL_6900> | Debian Stretch is old old stable now. Nevertheless, it will get Kernel updates? |
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| 13:21 | <bremner> | probably not |
| 13:21 | <bremner> | well, check with LTS |
| 13:21 | <bremner> | !lts |
| 13:21 | <dpkg> | Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <jessie-lts> and <stretch-lts> and see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information. #debian-lts on irc.oftc.net. |
| 13:21 | <bremner> | !stretch-lts |
| 13:21 | <dpkg> | Security support for Debian 9 "stretch" from the Debian Security Team ended July 6 2020. The <LTS> team will continue to provide limited security support for some architectures and a subset of packages until June 30 2022 (total 5 year life). See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information |
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| 13:22 | -!- | TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian.or.at #debian-next #security #debian |
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| 13:22 | -!- | tytech038 is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian |
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| 13:23 | -!- | cOOl is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian |
| 13:24 | <tytech038> | umm |
| 13:24 | <tytech038> | hello? |
| 13:24 | <petn-randall> | hi tytech038 |
| 13:24 | -!- | towo` [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] |
| 13:24 | <tytech038> | question |
| 13:24 | <tytech038> | should i go to a different channel if i need help? |
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| 13:25 | <petn-randall> | tytech038: Depends on what you need help on. Ask y ... |
| 13:25 | <petn-randall> | !next |
| 13:25 | <dpkg> | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 13:26 | <HAL_6900> | You see. I am having some issues with Kernel 4.9.0-16... and I am not alone with this problem. See bug #990423. |
| 13:26 | <judd> | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/990423 in src:linux (open): «stretch kernel 4.9.0-16-amd64 crashes randomly»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-06-28; last modified: 2021-07-05. |
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| 13:26 | -!- | towo` is "Torsten (towo) Wphlfarth" on #kanotix #debian-next #debian #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #siduction-admin |
| 13:26 | <somiaj> | I think stretch lts is now supporting the 4.19 backports kernel and not 4.9 anymore |
| 13:27 | <somiaj> | ,kernels |
| 13:27 | <judd> | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.13.0-trunk-686 (5.13.12-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); bullseye: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.8-686 (5.10.46-4~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-17-686-pae (4.19.194-3); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.17-686-pae (4.19.194-3~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 13:27 | <judd> | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1); bookworm: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); bullseye-backports: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4) |
| 13:27 | <somiaj> | yea, look stretch has the 4.19.0 kernel now |
| 13:27 | <HAL_6900> | Cool. |
| 13:28 | <somiaj> | you must have not installed the meta package, because you should have upgrade4d to that a while ago on stretch |
| 13:28 | <another> | dpkg: Are you saying insinuating I'm happy? How dare you! /s |
| 13:28 | <dpkg> | i don't know, another |
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| 13:32 | <HAL_6900> | I not installed the meta package. |
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| 13:35 | -!- | }ls{ is "nobody" on #kvm #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian |
| 13:35 | <somiaj> | you should always install the kernel metapackage, because even new abi changes will require a new package to be installed |
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| 13:40 | <HAL_6900> | I see. |
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| 13:44 | -!- | frankie is "Francesco P Lovergine" on #debian-devel-it #debian |
| 13:45 | -!- | frankie is now known as Guest6508 |
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| 13:45 | <urk> | Does anyone on here have experience with the LXDE interface? No one has answered in #LXDE for the past several days, and I am wondering how to get rid of a double image of a minimized screen. Also, I can't seem to restore my dual pain icon after deleting it, and don't find it in the panel tools. |
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| 13:48 | <petn-randall> | urk: What OS release are you running? |
| 13:49 | <urk> | petn: I am running Debian 10.9 with Kernel 4.19 |
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| 13:49 | -!- | is0ke3_ is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian |
| 13:51 | <urk> | XFCE corrupted after the last update, and I couldn't get the windows manager to work so I gravitated to LXDE. LXDE is a set of mixed blessing. It is lighter, faster, and has more custom configuration of folders, but folders moved to the panel haven't synced data with folders on the desktop. Additionally it is harder to configure the panel, and there are not as many default panel tools. ONe of the things I liked a lot in XFCE was the cabinet tool with |
| 13:51 | <urk> | the directory tree. It useful so you can access your data in case the windows manager gets corrupted. |
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| 13:53 | <CryptoSiD> | whats the plan regarding the update of libc6? |
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| 13:54 | <cOOl> | urk what are you tweaking there? my bullseye xfce install is working fine since jessy -> upgraded |
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| 13:57 | <urk> | c001: What type of hardware are you running? I couldn't get the upgrade to go through running a Dell XPS15 7590. I have a combination of both Intel and Nvidia hardware components on here. I plan on trying the upgrade again, but next time will try it in emulation mode. I didn't like wht was done to the login screen for credentials, and it lacked clarity, and definition. It had kind of a washed out look. Also, I didn't like the dark background which |
| 13:57 | <urk> | looked more like a night screen, and found it hideous. My system crashed when I tried to change the background color, and the bottom XFCE panel was missing. I could have fixed the panel, but it looks like there were other issues. |
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| 13:58 | <petn-randall> | CryptoSiD: Can you be more specific? In which release are you expecting what kind of update? |
| 13:58 | <urk> | Some Debian developers reported there are still issues with combinations of Intel and Nvidia, but it is being worked on, but everyone else seems to have had a decent experience with the upgrade. |
| 13:59 | <urk> | petn: I am going to stay with Debian 10.9 a little bit longer, and look at upgrading after I arrive in Los Angeles, but next time I will first due the upgrade in emulation mode to make sure there are no hidden surprises. |
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| 14:04 | * | tjcarter ponders that he could wind up with an AMD CPU and an Intel GPU, wouldn't that be weird? |
| 14:05 | <tjcarter> | I will NOT buy nvidia at this point, and when/if GPUs become a reasonable thing again, this RX 580 could use an upgrade. |
| 14:06 | <somiaj> | At this point I'm just use to nvidia, and have accepted to deal with their non-free drivers, though I don't seem to have problems with them compared to some |
| 14:07 | <tjcarter> | The drivers are not great, but the fact that we'd all be using Wayland today if not for their NIHness holding everything back, and then add some rather scummy business practices in the past 12 months … No thanks. |
| 14:07 | <tomreyn> | tjcarter: how would oyu end up with amd cpu and intel gpu? in one system? |
| 14:08 | <tjcarter> | tomreyn: Intel's coming out with discrete GPUs in the next year. |
| 14:08 | <somiaj> | I still wouldn't be using waylend (and suspect many won't) even if it wasn't a driver issue |
| 14:08 | <somiaj> | many wms aren't gonna support wayland anytime soon |
| 14:08 | <tjcarter> | They're showing promise but the drivers ain't there yet. |
| 14:08 | <tomreyn> | tjcarter: yes, and next year's also the year of linux on the desktop |
| 14:09 | <tjcarter> | somiaj: many WMs will never support it. They're written for X11 after all. |
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| 14:09 | <somiaj> | excatly, and many users are happy with their wm and see no reason to move to wayland |
| 14:09 | <petn-randall> | urk: petn<tab> ... I don't get notified unless you type the full nick. |
| 14:09 | <tjcarter> | tomreyn: We've already seen one of their DGPU offerings |
| 14:09 | <tomreyn> | intel keeps saying they'll do dedicated gpu's for years, but somehow they never do |
| 14:09 | <tomreyn> | oh then you know more than i do |
| 14:10 | <tomreyn> | hopefully they'll do a separate driver this time |
| 14:10 | <tjcarter> | tomreyn: It was fairly low-end, more suited to a whack-a-dell than gaming, but it was a PCIe graphics card |
| 14:10 | <tjcarter> | And it was sold as bottom of their intended GPU line |
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| 14:11 | <tomreyn> | i wonder whether their dgpu will be faster than amd's apus :) |
| 14:12 | <tjcarter> | somiaj: Most people run DEs, YouTubing bald goateed 20somethings going on about "boomer" this and "boomer" that and how minimalist they are because they use Arch notwithstanding. |
| 14:13 | <tjcarter> | I'm like child, please… One of my computers has 16k of RAM, don't talk to me about minimalism. |
| 14:14 | <tjcarter> | (Also stay off the lawn that I don't have.) |
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| 14:16 | <urk> | Ok. I will now do full-nick: |
| 14:22 | <dice12_> | i am really disapointed to check almost all irc servers on web deny tor, oftc is an exception. thanks oftc to the policy of defense of rights of expression. |
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| 14:23 | <petn-randall> | dice12_: Most people coming through tor unfortunately are trolls, which is why many channels have them banned, too. :/ |
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| 14:26 | <BCMM> | pert: as far as i can see, the ultimate blame lies with a change to spamd. they're just outbound filtering because it looks bad for them if a lot of email sent through them is getting filtered by the recipient's mail providers :( |
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| 14:28 | <BCMM> | kind of funny that it's a common enough "mistake" that their own webmail makes it, though |
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| 14:30 | <dice12_> | tor is for sure a good anonimicity mechanism, but, if we force a piece of sensitive information cross thousands of nodes, cant we se in this prism tor is more vulnerable to data leak |
| 14:32 | <shrew> | tor doesn't break encryption.. |
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| 14:33 | <dice12_> | for exqample this connection I did without ssl |
| 14:33 | <BCMM> | isn't tor traffic encrypted while it's within tor? |
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| 14:34 | <BCMM> | i mean, there's obviously the issue of trusting the exit node, but as far as i know, the relays in between don't get any "sensitive information" |
| 14:35 | <BCMM> | dice12_: also, other major IRC networks *do* support tor. libera.chat does, for example. |
| 14:36 | <BCMM> | (they do make you log in, though, because otherwise tor would make it *really* easy for spammers to evade bans) |
| 14:36 | <netcrash> | petn-randall: :\ wait and see I guess |
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| 14:38 | <dice12_> | BCMM: server is irc.libera.chat right |
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| 14:39 | <BCMM> | i think they have their own onion service |
| 14:40 | <BCMM> | (which, presumably, means they don't want tor traffic connecting to their clearnet server) |
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| 14:43 | <dice12_> | I accept any information about other server channels good to chat by tor, in fact I am feeling already be cool to go offtopic |
| 14:43 | <urk> | petn-randall: I did send data to Termbin so folks in this forum can take a look to why my upgrade failed. I suspect there is a compatibility with the windows manager. Switching subjects, I tried sddm with latest iteration of XFCE4+ and it wouldn't work so I graviated to LXDE for now. |
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| 14:51 | <tjcarter> | I generally thought tor wasn't really logical for irc, then considered that actually it does make sense after all, but ultimately concluded that tor + non-identified = trollolols |
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| 14:57 | <dice12_> | tjcarter: I agree that for most tnot being identified might be a temptetion for a large range of `'plays'... a kind of crime without punishment. |
| 14:57 | <dice12_> | is the human nature |
| 14:58 | <tjcarter> | dice12_: a lot of channels insist on identified with services regardless |
| 14:58 | <tjcarter> | The problem is that not having that with tor basically makes people unbannable. |
| 14:59 | <tjcarter> | Not that bans are extremely effective in the first place. |
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| 15:19 | <dice12_> | even the ones that allow onion requires registration mandatory |
| 15:23 | <dice12_> | I want to access offtopic requires registration, so, email in turn ask your telefone, previous email, birth etc |
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| 15:23 | -!- | ach is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on @#spooky #debian |
| 15:24 | <dice12_> | then I reluctantlly shot in in topic what should be in offtopic |
| 15:24 | <EdePopede> | dice12_: some do, others don't. still possible to register on irc without full disclosure. |
| 15:25 | <Sqrt{not}> | dice12_, i registered into offtopic here without all that info |
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| 15:40 | <tuxd3v> | aloo_shu, to be honest , I don't know, because in target files there are no Execstart,stop,reload, but you should be able to start a target and stop another in some way, maybe only isolate is the only option, don't know |
| 15:46 | -!- | HAL_6900 [~void@186.212.158.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] |
| 15:46 | <aloo_shu> | I think there was another way apart from isolate, but my logic would say starting a target is easier than stopping one, it's not a service |
| 15:49 | <aloo_shu> | i.e. I don't think systemd has a way of tracking which of the units a target is depending on, was already running when the target got invoked, so that it could only stop what's specific to the 'upper' target |
| 15:49 | <imMute> | yeah, I know you can start targets, but I don't think you can stop them (other than isolate) |
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| 15:52 | -!- | semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee |
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| 15:53 | -!- | aindilis is "Andrew John Dougherty" on #debian |
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| 16:04 | -!- | r3m is "launch" on #debian #linode #bitlbee |
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| 16:16 | -!- | lightbulbjim is "lightbulbjim" on #debian |
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| 16:23 | -!- | ens_ is "ens,,," on #debian |
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| 16:23 | -!- | user is "user" on #debian |
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| 16:23 | <dice12_> | I contemplate with sadness the lack of critical mass working on gnu hurd |
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| 16:24 | -!- | dvs is "realname" on #debian |
| 16:24 | <dice12_> | we coud have a debian with hurd |
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| 16:30 | <dice12_> | besides all debian is outstanding in current stage. |
| 16:31 | <aindilis> | dice12_: sorry to hear you are feeling sad about this. I'm sad at the lack of critical mass (for certain other projects), so I know how it feels. |
| 16:32 | <dice12_> | to coordinate alllll people to produce a ready piece of OS requeris a level of organization I cant imagine. my teams ranged from 3 to 5 in office. |
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| 16:32 | -!- | mooff is "mooff" on #debian |
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| 16:33 | -!- | kryptos is "realname" on #debian |
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| 16:36 | -!- | RedSoxFan07 is "RedSoxFan07" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 16:36 | -!- | BrianG61UK is "Brian G. (in England)" on #linux-media #debian-raspberrypi #debian |
| 16:37 | <aindilis> | dice12_: maybe we should first work on software to coordinate all people? |
| 16:37 | <dice12_> | soon I create an email to expose more inopic |
| 16:37 | <dice12_> | in offtopic |
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| 16:39 | -!- | wyre_ is "Got ZNC?" on #oftc #debian-es-offtopic #debian |
| 16:40 | <aindilis> | hrm I cannot join #debian-offtopic for some reason |
| 16:40 | <aindilis> | nor #debian-academy |
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| 16:40 | <aindilis> | Here is some teambuilding software I'm contemplating using: https://github.com/QuMuLab/teamwork-via-collective-intention |
| 16:41 | <aindilis> | http://www.haz.ca/papers/muise-coinATijcai-15.pdf |
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| 16:45 | <Sqrt{not}> | aindilis, you must be registered with nickserv to join some channels, including -offtopic. /msg nickserv help register |
| 16:45 | <aindilis> | ty |
| 16:48 | <dice12_> | I know I will bother a few there, but would be fantastic if more projects appear with supercool GUI. recently I operated an app that was FAST to partition and format,...ok I know exists fdisk, mkfs and etc but the productivity of the app, for example I did in 40secs what took me on ubuntu 30min tor more |
| 16:49 | <somiaj> | gparted is a fairly popular gui app for maniging partitions |
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| 16:50 | -!- | KjetilK is "Kjetil Kjernsmo" on #debian |
| 16:51 | <dice12_> | somiaj: yes, true |
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| 16:51 | -!- | lenharo_ is "Daniel Lenharo" on #debian #debian-bsb #debian-devel-br #debian-devel-changes #debian-next #lenharo #debian-mg #debian-cwb #debian-ruby-changes |
| 16:53 | <KjetilK> | I just upgraded a box that only played the role of a file server, thoroughly firewalled from the Internet by a different box, and stuff broke after upgrade. Investigating it, I found that firewalld was installed and firewalled the box from everything else, it had then only port 22 open. |
| 16:53 | <dice12_> | in the world of syssadmin many lack the concept of RAD took in propramming (rapid application delopment) |
| 16:54 | <KjetilK> | I felt it was something that would have been nice to have known in the release notes, but it might be that it is very marginal case caused by something in my setup |
| 16:55 | <KjetilK> | I didn't keep a record of my database before the upgrade, so I don't know if an upgrade report would be useful |
| 16:55 | <dice12_> | the RAD can be borrosed to sysadmin trough GUI tools |
| 16:55 | <dice12_> | *borrowed |
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| 16:57 | <dice12_> | changing the theme |
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| 16:57 | <dice12_> | I had today to boot grub on recovery mode to reset as passwds |
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| 17:01 | <dice12_> | I am playing the solution like a mantra to not forguet, mount -rw -o remount / |
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| 17:10 | <Sqrt{not}> | KjetilK, if the upgrade broke stuff, you probably should file an upgrade report. If you want to discuss it, or if you need help with it, please give more details here. |
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| 17:12 | -!- | aindilis` is "Andrew John Dougherty" on #debian |
| 17:13 | <KjetilK> | Sqrt{not}: I don't have much more details, I just did systemctl stop firewalld; systemctl disable firewalld and that solved the problem |
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| 17:13 | -!- | semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee |
| 17:13 | <KjetilK> | I can certainly submit an upgrade report, but given the little information I can provide, it may not be terribly useful |
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| 17:19 | -!- | aindilis is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian |
| 17:20 | <Sqrt{not}> | KjetilK, you mean the upgrade installed a firewall that was not there before? probably a short upgrade report noting something unexpected happening would be appropriate. Doesn't have to go into all gory details, but just note something happened that you didn't expect. |
| 17:21 | <KjetilK> | Right, OK, thanks! |
| 17:21 | <KjetilK> | yes, that seems to be what happened |
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| 17:22 | -!- | malakim is "lunix" on #debian |
| 17:22 | <Sqrt{not}> | maybe hang onto whatever logs for a while, in case some maintainer wants to ask you about details.... |
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| 17:23 | <KjetilK> | yup |
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| 17:23 | -!- | lenharo_ is "Daniel Lenharo" on #debian #debian-bsb #debian-devel-br #debian-devel-changes #debian-next @#lenharo #debian-mg #debian-cwb #debian-ruby-changes |
| 17:23 | <KjetilK> | is there a way that I can list the history of a package, so that I can see if firewalld was actually installed on upgrade? |
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| 17:27 | -!- | lenharo is "Daniel Lenharo" on #debian #debian-bsb #debian-devel-br #debian-devel-changes #debian-next @#lenharo #debian-mg #debian-cwb #debian-ruby-changes |
| 17:28 | <aindilis> | KjetilK: you probably know about /var/log/apt |
| 17:29 | <mooff> | the information should be in /var/log/apt/history.log |
| 17:30 | <mooff> | https://github.com/i5513/apt-history-gui is the only program i've found that presents it |
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| 17:31 | <Sqrt{not}> | [z]less also works OK |
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| 17:32 | <Sqrt{not}> | I have history.log through history.log.12.gz |
| 17:33 | <mooff> | with history for one package sparsely distributed throughout them |
| 17:33 | * | mooff dreams of a `dpkg --history $pkg` |
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| 17:34 | -!- | trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian |
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| 17:35 | -!- | f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian |
| 17:36 | <malakim> | what program do you recomend to manage a laptop's firewall? |
| 17:36 | <dice12_> | ufw |
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| 17:36 | -!- | debian_ is "debian,,," on #debian |
| 17:36 | <dice12_> | wthi gui |
| 17:37 | <malakim> | thank you dice12_ i'll look into it |
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| 17:38 | -!- | nyov is "nyov" on #postmarketos #debian-offtopic #debian #luakit #oftc |
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| 17:39 | -!- | Gerowen is "realname" on #debian |
| 17:39 | <aindilis> | dice12_: https://www.mimuw.edu.pl/~nguyen/HornTeamLog-long.pdf <- another team formation system, but the authors won't release the code due to not being ready. |
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| 17:58 | -!- | lenharo is "Daniel Lenharo" on #debian #debian-bsb #debian-devel-br #debian-devel-changes #debian-next @#lenharo #debian-mg #debian-cwb #debian-ruby-changes |
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| 18:22 | <mendel_munkis> | is tesseract-ocr known to have issues with named pipes? |
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| 18:35 | <colemickens> | wtf is "ntp-systemd-wrapper" and why is it not better documented? |
| 18:36 | <colemickens> | Given that ntp.service ships with PrivateTmp=true and you ship ntp with DNS-named pools by default... uh... |
| 18:36 | <colemickens> | how is this supposed to work in a default install? |
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| 18:39 | <aloo_shu> | mendel_munkis: IME programs that don't like named pipes (e.g. rsync), are saying so. Much easier to mispredict how a pipe is going to behave in a given situation |
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| 18:54 | <colemickens> | Anyone? |
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| 19:05 | <Sqrt{not}> | colemickens, you may have the suggested package ntp-doc installed |
| 19:08 | <colemickens> | upstream ntp docs are not going to tell me how NTP is meant to work in Buster out of the box if it's configured to run in a PrivateTmp and has default DNS pools that require DNS resolution. |
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| 19:10 | <kaleb9_> | greetings for all. I just discovered that youtube block tor. |
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| 19:10 | <colemickens> | that certainly seems on topic. /s |
| 19:11 | <Sqrt{not}> | colemickens, you're right, reading the docs couldn't possibly help anything |
| 19:11 | <kaleb9_> | I am reaching the conclusion that tor might be useful only to alcaeda hahhahahha |
| 19:12 | <colemickens> | Not sure if you're too ignorant to understand what I'm saying or if you're just enjoying being condescending. The issue is with debian's configuration of NTP, not NTP's configuration. |
| 19:12 | <colemickens> | But whatever, I'll wait for someone that can read/comprehend. |
| 19:12 | <colemickens> | And yes, I've read the upstream NTP docs (that again, has absolutely nothing to do with how DEBIAN is running it) |
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| 19:16 | <twb> | colemickens: which NTP? systemd-timesyncd, ntpsec, or legacy ntp? |
| 19:17 | <another> | colemickens: Why would PrivateTmp affect ntp in any way? Am I missing something? |
| 19:18 | <twb> | ntp-systemd-wrapper appears to be a hack due to ifupdown &c |
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| 19:19 | <twb> | If you just want an NTP *client*, and you don't care about sub-second accuracy (scientific equipment), and you don't care about NTS, IMO you should just run systemd-timesyncd |
| 19:21 | <twb> | another: I'm guessing they're also running legacy ISC dhcpd, and they want NTP option from DHCPv4 to propagate to the NTP client. This historically works by the DHCP client forcibly patching the NTP client config, then restarting the NTP client with "actually use this config file". This happens via /tmp, which is assumed to be shared. |
| 19:22 | <twb> | *legacy ISC dhclient |
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| 19:22 | <another> | oh. TIL |
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| 19:26 | <Sqrt{not}> | At first I thought they were running a new bullseye install, then later they talked about buster |
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| 19:27 | <twb> | You definitely shouldn't run plain "ntp" package in bullseye |
| 19:27 | <twb> | https://www.oreilly.com/content/the-internet-is-going-to-fall-down-if-i-dont-fix-this-susan-sons/ |
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| 19:32 | <kaleb9_> | tails definitely is not to have fun on web. |
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| 19:37 | <kirikiri> | is there any way to track my internet history and save it in a file? like all the websites or URLs i visit |
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| 19:38 | <another> | depends on your browser |
| 19:38 | <twb> | kirikiri: not really because of TLS. |
| 19:38 | <twb> | kirikiri: do you want ALL traffic, or only a single GUI web browser? |
| 19:38 | <kirikiri> | i was hoping for all traffic |
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| 19:38 | <americaneagle> | is there any way that i can use a different tipe of connection in hexchat in every server? |
| 19:38 | <twb> | kirikiri: HTTP/HTTPS, or all protocols? |
| 19:39 | <kirikiri> | all protocols |
| 19:39 | <americaneagle> | like in one use proxy1, in other tor and in other proxy2 |
| 19:39 | <twb> | kirikiri: OK what you want is a "network tap", or if you can't get that, a switch that supports "port mirroring" |
| 19:39 | <kaleb9_> | in my opinion firefox if by far opyimum browser, who knows you find an addon to suit your neeeds |
| 19:39 | <twb> | kirikiri: then on that you run something like tcpdump which can log a packet capture (pcap) for later analysis |
| 19:39 | <americaneagle> | kirikiri: what you want is a type of keylogger |
| 19:40 | <crawler> | Everyone loves kirikiri :) |
| 19:40 | <kirikiri> | oh |
| 19:40 | <twb> | kirikiri: if your router is OpenWRT, it can do this, although you will need some large storage area |
| 19:40 | <kirikiri> | thank you |
| 19:40 | <another> | not really. keyloggers capture keyboard inputs |
| 19:40 | <kirikiri> | large storage area is fine |
| 19:40 | <americaneagle> | just use google for history, if you want a little more, just script something that will screen record |
| 19:40 | <twb> | kirikiri: note that due to end-to-end encryption, you will only know IP addresses, not full URLs |
| 19:40 | <americaneagle> | is an example another |
| 19:40 | <kirikiri> | how do i get a network tap, is it a software or sth else? |
| 19:40 | <another> | a bad one |
| 19:41 | <americaneagle> | yeah |
| 19:41 | <twb> | kirikiri: there are hardware ones that cost a few hundred dollars |
| 19:41 | <crawler> | What exactly do you want to do with that "history"? |
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| 19:41 | <twb> | kirikiri: OR you can get a $50 openwrt router and turn it into oe |
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| 19:41 | <americaneagle> | just use several google drives, or find a paid account |
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| 19:42 | <twb> | kirikiri: for a single host you trust, you can try something like this: "sudo tcpdump -p" |
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| 19:42 | <kirikiri> | ok. i have never heard of openwrt before so im looking that up now |
| 19:43 | <twb> | kirikiri: if you have Cisco or HP networking, I think they have equivalent functionality |
| 19:43 | <kirikiri> | i do trust my network i'm on rn but i dont run it, can i still try tcpdump on it? |
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| 19:43 | <americaneagle> | another, depends of where you want that history to be compiled of |
| 19:43 | <twb> | kirikiri: you have root on your own laptop, and want to just look at the laptop? |
| 19:43 | <kirikiri> | yes |
| 19:44 | <americaneagle> | if its from a friend laptop ;), or yours |
| 19:44 | <twb> | kirikiri: OK just try "sudo tcpdump -p" on your laptop for now |
| 19:44 | <kirikiri> | it is my laptop lol |
| 19:44 | <twb> | kirikiri: you should see one line per packet |
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| 19:44 | <americaneagle> | ok i dont have any advice then xd |
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| 19:45 | <kirikiri> | ah i havent added all users on this laptop to have root access, how do i do that? |
| 19:45 | <mooff> | twb, can tcpdump lift hostnames out of TLS SNI? |
| 19:45 | <americaneagle> | sudo adduser (user) |
| 19:46 | <twb> | mooff: yes |
| 19:46 | <another> | kirikiri: What is your goal here? Do you want to observe network traffic? |
| 19:46 | <kaleb9_> | sudo visudo |
| 19:46 | <twb> | Well, really that would be a job for tshark/wireshark because tcpdump only has limited analysers |
| 19:46 | <kirikiri> | i want to know all my own connections, in one central place ideally |
| 19:46 | <kirikiri> | like an enhanced browser history that gets all network connections |
| 19:46 | <americaneagle> | so, is there any handy way to connect with a different proxy to different servers? |
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| 19:47 | <americaneagle> | like different proxys to different irc servers |
| 19:47 | <kirikiri> | i will brb i am gonna log into root rq |
| 19:47 | <another> | kirikiri: Since a lot of web traffic is encrypted you won't see full URLs |
| 19:47 | <twb> | mooff: for example tshark -NdmnNtv -i sshdump -o extcap.sshdump.remoteusername:root -o extcap.sshdump.remotehost:tweak.prisonpc.com,tvserver-1 -o extcap.sshdump.remotenoprom:true -o extcap.sshdump.remoteinterface:enp5s0 -Y tls -T fields -e tls.handshake.extensions_alpn_str -f 'host ryda.com.au' |
| 19:47 | <twb> | mooff: that's printing the ALPN part of TLS, but SNI should be in there nearby |
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| 19:49 | <twb> | americaneagle: re proxies, I don't understand the question. You want your IRC client to use znc.example.edu for OFTC, and znc.example.org for Libera? |
| 19:49 | <americaneagle> | no |
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| 19:51 | <americaneagle> | oftc.com with westVPN, libera.com with tor, master.com with moanvpn |
| 19:51 | <kirikiri> | ok im back i ran tcpdump on root, it works but im not sure how to read the results |
| 19:51 | <americaneagle> | that in hexchat and in the same machine |
| 19:52 | <kirikiri> | even though web traffic is encrypted, if its my computer making the requests cant i see what i send out? to at least know outgoing requests |
| 19:52 | <twb> | americaneagle: OK that sounds like a question specific to hexchat; I can't advise on that |
| 19:52 | <americaneagle> | twb: each irc server with each vpn |
| 19:52 | <americaneagle> | ok wich client can you advice? |
| 19:53 | <americaneagle> | or moethod of connection |
| 19:53 | <kaleb9_> | soon I will sleep. I just wamt yo enjoy a little rock more. |
| 19:53 | <twb> | americaneagle: I don't know any way to do it without running separate processes for each server |
| 19:54 | <americaneagle> | in different machines no? |
| 19:54 | <americaneagle> | or in the same twb |
| 19:54 | <twb> | kirikiri: you don't have "sudo" installed? |
| 19:54 | <americaneagle> | lol |
| 19:55 | <americaneagle> | twb |
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| 19:55 | <americaneagle> | do you know any other support servers? |
| 19:56 | <americaneagle> | -help |
| 19:56 | <twb> | kirikiri: if you prefer GUIs, you will probably find "wireshark" easier to understand |
| 19:57 | <twb> | kirikiri: it shows the same one-lin-per-packet, but you can click on the line to see more detail |
| 19:57 | <mooff> | twb, re the tshark command - cool! |
| 19:57 | <mooff> | "it was on the tip of my tongue" 😁 |
| 19:58 | <mooff> | an intuitive and obvious command if i ever saw one... |
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| 19:58 | <kaleb9_> | as far as I know wireshark is an instrusion tool |
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| 19:59 | <kaleb9_> | leads me to think you are shotting hacking adventures |
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| 20:01 | <twb> | kaleb9_: wireshark is a network analysis tool. You can use it for good or evil. |
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| 20:01 | <kaleb9_> | in these fields there is a thiny line that divides good and evil |
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| 20:03 | <mooff> | wireshark is as much of an intrusion tool as a pair of binoculars is |
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| 20:03 | <mooff> | some people just use it to watch birds |
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| 20:03 | -!- | semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee |
| 20:04 | <twb> | mooff: I was actually thinking "a screwdriver" |
| 20:04 | <kirikiri> | ok i used tshark and it works and i can see IPs and i tested and recognize some of them so it works |
| 20:04 | <twb> | https://www.itpa.org.au/code-of-ethics/ |
| 20:04 | <mooff> | my first thought was "microphone" |
| 20:04 | <kirikiri> | but i cant see URLs. though this does still help |
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| 20:05 | <twb> | kirikiri: as I said, due to TLS, you can't see URLs only IPs (and often, hostnames) |
| 20:05 | <kirikiri> | is there a way to intercept applications before they send a DNS request or something? for example like make my browsers all tell me what URL they try to connect to? |
| 20:05 | <another> | unless you want to MITM yourself |
| 20:05 | <kirikiri> | kinda yeah |
| 20:05 | <twb> | kirikiri: yes, that command will also show the DNS queries |
| 20:05 | <twb> | kirikiri: you can test this yourself, e.g. |
| 20:06 | <another> | DNS won't give you full URLs either |
| 20:06 | <twb> | "resolvectl query -t aaaa example.com" |
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| 20:07 | <twb> | But the only way to see the full URLs, when TLS is involved, is to perform "SSL inspection", a.k.a. "MITM" on yourself |
| 20:07 | <another> | though that won't work on everything |
| 20:08 | <another> | TLS1.3 should fail. google domains in chrome, too |
| 20:08 | <twb> | another: chrome allows SSL inspection of google domains if done correctly. |
| 20:08 | -!- | lenharo [~lenharo@45.183.224.174] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 20:08 | <twb> | another: "correctly" essentially means an appropriately structured CA, and supporting rules in the group policy object |
| 20:09 | <twb> | It won't work if it's transparent, because that looks like an attack |
| 20:09 | <another> | so, basically if you explicitly allow it? |
| 20:09 | <twb> | Of course now I say that, I confess I haven't actually tested this with TLS1.3 or a first-party google domain. |
| 20:09 | <twb> | another: right |
| 20:10 | <another> | fair enough |
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| 20:10 | <twb> | another: you basically just convince chrome that you, the site admin, have chosen to SSL inspect your site |
| 20:10 | <kirikiri> | ok imtrying out the things suggested, though reading results i cant exactly keep up with the conversation |
| 20:10 | <kirikiri> | but |
| 20:10 | <twb> | If you do this on Android there's an unremovable warning that "your asshole boss may be watching you" or similar |
| 20:10 | <twb> | Not on Debian though |
| 20:10 | <kirikiri> | what does SSL inspection entail, how do i set it up |
| 20:11 | <twb> | kirikiri: either you pay someone $50,000 |
| 20:11 | <twb> | kirikiri: or you need to learn how to use certtool and squid |
| 20:11 | <another> | I think there are tools for that. though I never used them |
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| 20:12 | <twb> | kirikiri: which clients do you need to SSL inspect? |
| 20:12 | <kirikiri> | one sec |
| 20:12 | <another> | basically you set up a fake CA to issue fake certs for all domains and tell your computer to trust it |
| 20:12 | <kirikiri> | what does client refer to in this context |
| 20:12 | <LeeSin> | hi do you hear me? |
| 20:13 | <another> | LeeSin: no |
| 20:13 | <mooff> | i find SSL inspection pretty offensive in the workplace |
| 20:13 | <twb> | kirikiri: like, curl, wget, chromium, firefox |
| 20:14 | <LeeSin> | anyone know why my internet crash? :3 |
| 20:14 | <kirikiri> | oh |
| 20:14 | <twb> | mooff: >shrug< it depends if you're working in a 7/11 or a signals directorate |
| 20:14 | <twb> | LeeSin: what have you already done to isolate the fault? |
| 20:14 | <kirikiri> | curl and a few browsers primarily |
| 20:14 | <twb> | kirikiri: OK for simplicity let's consider just curl |
| 20:15 | <kirikiri> | ok |
| 20:15 | <twb> | kirikiri: first you need to generate a CA keypair and CA certificate. Then tell curl "trust this CA", e.g. via putting it in /usr/local/share/ca-certificates/my-cool-ca.crt and running "sudo update-ca-certificates". |
| 20:16 | <twb> | kirikiri: then you need to install and configure squid 4+ to use ssl-bump in "peek" mode |
| 20:16 | <twb> | kirikiri: squid will then pretend to be the website, generate a fake certificate, give it to the client, and then separately make its own TLS connection to the real website |
| 20:17 | <kirikiri> | ah ok |
| 20:17 | <twb> | kirikiri: finally, you need to tell curl to use squid as the proxy, e.g. https_proxy=http://localhost:3128/ |
| 20:17 | <kirikiri> | ok that plan does make sense |
| 20:17 | <kirikiri> | i will have to figure out how to use squid |
| 20:18 | <kirikiri> | but i can probably do that |
| 20:18 | <twb> | For a GUI browser the process is broadly the same, but the CA certificate goes into e.g. ~/.pki/awful.db for each separate user |
| 20:18 | <twb> | https://www.itpa.org.au/code-of-ethics/ |
| 20:18 | <twb> | Oops wrong uRL |
| 20:18 | <kirikiri> | ok thank you |
| 20:18 | <twb> | http://www.squid-cache.org/Doc/config/ssl_bump/ |
| 20:19 | <Sqrt{not}> | LeeSin, what happened exactly when it crashed? what version of debian are you running there? |
| 20:19 | <twb> | kirikiri: this is my day job, so you can hire me to do this for you (https://cyberitsolutions.com.au) but if this is for personal use the rate is probably outside your budget |
| 20:19 | <twb> | kirikiri: oh PS: in some jurisdictions this is illegal. |
| 20:20 | <twb> | kirikiri: it's USUALLY legal as long as affected users are warned that you're doing it |
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| 20:21 | <kirikiri> | ok. it is just me im trying to record lol |
| 20:21 | <kaleb9_> | I start to not like where this conversation goes...illegal stuff |
| 20:22 | <kaleb9_> | have a nice day all |
| 20:22 | <kirikiri> | intuitively i feel like there must be an easier way to 'spy' on myself |
| 20:22 | <Sqrt{not}> | kirikiri, there is: just make handwritten notes |
| 20:22 | <twb> | kaleb9_: eh, it's in countries like Iran where "being gay" or "disliking god" is also illegal |
| 20:22 | <kirikiri> | that is a fair proposition theoretically |
| 20:23 | <LeeSin> | Sqrt, look I use AV-MXE, a respin of MX |
| 20:23 | <twb> | kirikiri: if it's *just* for a GUI browser, for a single page, you can open the inspector (Ctrl+Shift+i), click "Network", then refresh the page |
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| 20:23 | <kirikiri> | how do i respond to a user like when you have my name in your message |
| 20:23 | <twb> | kirikiri: but you asked for comprehensive --- this is how you do comprehensive |
| 20:23 | <twb> | kirikiri: in my case, I just hit "ki <TAB TAB TAB>" |
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| 20:23 | <mooff> | kirikiri: type the first few letters of their nickname then press tab |
| 20:24 | <mooff> | or type eg "twb: " manually |
| 20:24 | <kirikiri> | oh |
| 20:24 | <LeeSin> | sqrt: and it happens everytime i enter to literally everything: chrome, firefox, chromium, I have screenshots but don't know how to send it to you |
| 20:24 | <kirikiri> | twb: oo |
| 20:24 | <kirikiri> | mooff: ty |
| 20:25 | <Sqrt{not}> | LeeSin, this is debian linux support. even regular MX is different enough that we can't support it here. I don't know about AV=MXE, but the robot can tell you same places for MX support: |
| 20:25 | <kirikiri> | Sqrt{not}: i might try for an electronic version of 'handwritten notes' ultimately it might be easier |
| 20:25 | <Sqrt{not}> | %mx-linux |
| 20:26 | <dselect> | MX Linux is a popular distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: https://forum.mxlinux.org/. It is related to <antix>. If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian |
| 20:27 | <another> | kirikiri: IIRC there are tools to automatically setup squid and CA. On the other hand: Do you really want spying to be easier? |
| 20:27 | <LeeSin> | i got it, thaks anyways sqrt. |
| 20:28 | <kirikiri> | thats what i was thinking...i feel like if i make a mistake i might compromise my security...since im new to this |
| 20:28 | <kirikiri> | naively i could always just copy and paste every url i visit in a browser and every curl request i make and that would net the bulk of the traffic |
| 20:29 | <kirikiri> | though not packet by packet |
| 20:29 | <kirikiri> | but that is fine |
| 20:29 | <americaneagle> | kirikiri: what do you want to do with that thing |
| 20:29 | <americaneagle> | i can help you with the true intents |
| 20:29 | <kirikiri> | run stats and other analysis on my own internet use, mostly |
| 20:30 | <kirikiri> | it is a sort of recordkeeping purpose. so CA and proxy does sound a little much for me |
| 20:31 | <kirikiri> | are there better approaches for this intent? |
| 20:31 | <americaneagle> | use google |
| 20:31 | <twb> | kirikiri: you will probably have to make some compromise then |
| 20:31 | <twb> | between "log everything" vs. "without too much fiddle-farting around" |
| 20:32 | <americaneagle> | those glowies will keep a close record of you even if you are sleeping literaly |
| 20:32 | <mooff> | americaneagle, but this channel is for getting other people to use Google for you :) |
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| 20:32 | -!- | Klaus_D1eter_ is "Klaus" on #debian |
| 20:32 | <mooff> | kirikiri: you could always just copy and use your browser's history database |
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| 20:33 | <kirikiri> | is there also a way to send command line commands into a file conditional on if they involve an internet connection? or have certain keywords |
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| 20:34 | <twb> | kirikiri: not easily |
| 20:35 | <twb> | kirikiri: I would just log every command, e.g. .bash_history |
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| 20:36 | <kirikiri> | ok |
| 20:36 | <kirikiri> | i could search in bash history for all curl commands for example, that would be fair for my purposes |
| 20:37 | <kirikiri> | does bash history come with timestamps? it doesnt look like it |
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| 20:39 | <kidx> | anyone know why I hear a click sound when no audio is playing |
| 20:39 | <kidx> | but when i watch a video it stops |
| 20:39 | <mooff> | just one, or repeatedly? |
| 20:39 | <kidx> | or even play music |
| 20:39 | <kidx> | repeats |
| 20:39 | <americaneagle> | i think you should use windows kirikiri |
| 20:39 | <kidx> | click clcik clcik |
| 20:39 | <americaneagle> | or just a chromebook |
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| 20:40 | <kidx> | whats windows kirikiri |
| 20:40 | <another> | americaneagle: you're not beeing very helpful |
| 20:40 | <kirikiri> | what would i do on windows to solve this problem |
| 20:40 | <kirikiri> | like what program or other thing would i run |
| 20:40 | <americaneagle> | windows logs everithing |
| 20:40 | <mooff> | 🐝 |
| 20:41 | <kidx> | oh your talking to some one elsemy bad |
| 20:41 | <americaneagle> | with timestamp, gps location, a pretty neat image of your face, including your real name andd ip where you did the acction |
| 20:41 | <americaneagle> | pretty neat linux distro |
| 20:42 | <mooff> | kidx: you've tried turning it off and on again? has it always clicked? |
| 20:42 | <kidx> | rebooting the machine? |
| 20:42 | <mooff> | yes |
| 20:42 | <kidx> | yup |
| 20:42 | <kidx> | still does |
| 20:42 | <mooff> | is it a new problem? |
| 20:42 | <kidx> | i can see the sound clicking on my mixer |
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| 20:42 | <mooff> | software mixer on the machine or external? |
| 20:43 | <kidx> | analog hardware |
| 20:43 | <kirikiri> | how do you access that info on the machine |
| 20:43 | <kidx> | I dont do software mixer |
| 20:43 | <kirikiri> | i do have a windows computer that i can get and try your suggestion |
| 20:43 | <somiaj> | kirikiri: you can configure the history file a bit more if you like, by default it doesn't have time stamps. |
| 20:43 | <kirikiri> | i have never done this before though |
| 20:43 | <kidx> | though the click is anoying |
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| 20:43 | <mooff> | kirikiri: i think they are being flippant about "MS and Google will track you anyway!" |
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| 20:44 | <somiaj> | kidx: that is strange, could it maybe be some hardware issue where you are hearing a short or feedback in your speakers that once you start using your audio card is no longer present? |
| 20:44 | <kirikiri> | mooff: ty |
| 20:44 | <somiaj> | kidx: I can't think of anything in linux that would be doing that, to me that sounds more like a hardware issue. |
| 20:44 | <kidx> | its a driver issue |
| 20:45 | <kidx> | i am running Asrock Ab350 pro 4 |
| 20:45 | <somiaj> | Try other kernels? |
| 20:45 | <kirikiri> | i will learn to configure the bash history to put timestamps in and i will also check out squid and CA stuff and see if that suits my needs |
| 20:45 | <kirikiri> | thank you for the help everyone |
| 20:45 | <mooff> | gl kirikiri |
| 20:45 | <kidx> | I tried Xanmod kernel same |
| 20:45 | <kirikiri> | mooff: thank you |
| 20:46 | <kidx> | its like a clocks ticking |
| 20:46 | <somiaj> | kidx: what module is the sound card using? Is it snd_intel_hda? |
| 20:46 | <kidx> | tick tick tick |
| 20:46 | <mooff> | fwiw i think squid + CA would be overkill, you probably want to read your browser's database, or figure out something with tcpdump, wireshark or tshark |
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| 20:47 | <mooff> | i could imagine there being some sort of GUI firewall program that does it too, something like Little Snitch |
| 20:47 | <kidx> | its uing Family 17h models |
| 20:49 | <another> | kidx: maybe some interference from a different device? |
| 20:49 | <somiaj> | what module in the kernel is it using? Well you can configure the snd_hda_intel module to use different 'models' which can sometimes help with things where the kernel detects the wrong defaults |
| 20:50 | <mooff> | another fix might be to play white noise at e.g. -90dB on a loop as a systemd service 🤓 |
| 20:51 | <kidx> | i am using just regualr Debian 11 |
| 20:51 | <kidx> | default outta the box |
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| 20:52 | <Sqrt{not}> | !AVL-MXE |
| 20:52 | <dpkg> | AV Linux MX Edition is a custom linux distro for an Audio/Visual workstation, based on MX linux. It is not debian, and is not supported in debian IRC channels. See https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=avlinux Post support issues in the MX Respins forum at https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewforum.php?f=127 See also <avlinux> |
| 20:52 | <twb> | kidx: if you set the volume to mute 0%, does the clicking stop? |
| 20:53 | <twb> | kidx: "when no audio is playing" sounds like the click you hear when the chip powers down. In powertop or /sys/, make sure snd_hda_intel (or whatever /proc/asound/cards reports) is set to "on" not "auto" |
| 20:53 | <mooff> | ^ |
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| 20:54 | <kidx> | how do i set that |
| 20:54 | <twb> | It might be periodic because some GUI component is waking it up periodically |
| 20:54 | <kidx> | i switched mics and now its gona weird |
| 20:54 | <kidx> | but how do i set that to make sure its set right? |
| 20:54 | <twb> | kidx: if the behaviour changes when you move cables around, it might be crosstalk/interference at the EMC level |
| 20:55 | <twb> | kidx: "sudo powertop", click TAB untli you reach "Tunables". arrows to find the sound card. Make sure it's set to "Bad" |
| 20:55 | <twb> | ">> Good Enable Audio codec power management" |
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| 20:55 | <mooff> | that's probably your fix |
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| 20:55 | <twb> | ">> Good Runtime PM for PCI Device Intel Corporation Cannon Point-LP High Definition Audio Controller" |
| 20:56 | <twb> | kidx: ^ those are what I see that are probably the relevant devices |
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| 21:01 | <kidx> | make it bad? |
| 21:01 | <kidx> | its bad now |
| 21:01 | <twb> | kidx: yes |
| 21:01 | <twb> | kidx: "bad" for saving power, because it stays powered up |
| 21:01 | <twb> | But good for not clicking every time it auto-powers-down |
| 21:01 | <kidx> | ok |
| 21:01 | <kidx> | its bad |
| 21:02 | <twb> | kidx: did you do both the "HDA" and "codec" lines? |
| 21:03 | <kidx> | whats the HDA one again i am running ryzen |
| 21:03 | <twb> | "High Definition Audio" |
| 21:03 | <another> | HDA is a standard for audio devices |
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| 21:03 | <twb> | kidx: I don't know exactly what it will say |
| 21:04 | <twb> | Try "sudo powertop --html powertop.html" and then upload powertop.html somewhere |
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| 21:07 | <kidx> | thin the audio is normal now |
| 21:07 | <kidx> | no click |
| 21:08 | <twb> | awesome |
| 21:08 | <twb> | kidx: OK so this will undo itself on reboot |
| 21:08 | <twb> | kidx: you need to work out what set that to "auto" and fix it |
| 21:09 | <twb> | This is likely to be either in /*/udev/rules.d/ or in upowerd, but that's just a wild guess |
| 21:09 | <mooff> | sometimes bad is good 🤓 |
| 21:10 | <twb> | normally it doesn't default to auto, so I've only seen this for HDA with "sudo powertop --auto-tune", in which case "don't do that" |
| 21:10 | <twb> | You might find a howto if you look for "don't auto-power-off USB on linux" or something |
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| 21:20 | * | twb grumbles at 4W for iwlwifi and 128mW per wg, when the backlight is down to 15mW |
| 21:21 | <twb> | It's dumb that my battery life is 20h instead of 60h only because the wifi chip can't idle itself properly |
| 21:24 | <mooff> | o.O |
| 21:24 | <bremner> | hint, not amd64 |
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| 21:28 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 1005] by debhelper |
| 21:28 | <twb> | bremner: yes, it is |
| 21:29 | <mooff> | does anyone know of a program that can project one X screen into a window, or onto another? |
| 21:29 | <twb> | mooff: not exactly what you asked for, but I like broadwayd |
| 21:29 | <mooff> | e.g. OBS can open windowed or fullscreen "projectors", from an X screen source |
| 21:30 | -!- | hays [~rootveget@hays.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: hays] |
| 21:30 | <mooff> | but i'm looking for something i can start with a hotkey, OBS is a little too involved |
| 21:30 | <somiaj> | mooff: does it have to be an x-screen, what about a nested xserver like xephyr? |
| 21:31 | <somiaj> | xrandr can also make virtual screens |
| 21:31 | <mooff> | somiaj: i'm hoping to be able to mirror screen A onto screen B with a hotkey, or screen B onto screen A with another |
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| 21:31 | <twb> | mooff: in gnome, penguin+P |
| 21:31 | <mooff> | if it worked like OBS's projector windows, that would be ideal |
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| 21:31 | -!- | hays is "h_" on #debian #debian-next #linode #spi |
| 21:31 | <somiaj> | mooff: I think RandR can do this, though I guess you want it in a window so it doesn't change screen A/B in that case |
| 21:31 | <mooff> | Super+p was broken for me on Gnome / nvidia / bullseye :/ |
| 21:32 | <twb> | for me, I see the same behaviour as on Windows |
| 21:32 | <mooff> | but i'm using i3 now - hence why a window projector would be ideal |
| 21:32 | <twb> | I haven't dug into exactly what it's doing because now it's wayland, I can't |
| 21:32 | <mooff> | twb: i see / saw the same dialog, but all of the selections did the wrong thing, lol |
| 21:33 | <twb> | xrandr is a sensible place to start |
| 21:34 | <mooff> | OBS calls its X screen source "X SHM", or similar |
| 21:36 | <twb> | That still exists? |
| 21:36 | <twb> | I thought it was off by default in current X configs |
| 21:36 | <twb> | Maybe since you're using nvidia, it re-enables legacy backdoors |
| 21:37 | <twb> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT-SHM |
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| 21:39 | <lucas_> | oi |
| 21:39 | <lucas_> | boa noite |
| 21:39 | <bremner> | !list |
| 21:39 | <dpkg> | bremner: Debian è un sistema operativo composto da software libero (un concetto distinto da quello di gratis): vedi http://www.debian.org/intro/free.it.html per saperne di più. |
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| 21:40 | <twb> | bremner: why is that "!list" and not "!pt" ? |
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| 21:41 | -!- | Meli is "meli" on #debian-kde #osm-sotm-ct #osm-it #fdroid #debian-social #debian #debian-next |
| 21:41 | <twb> | !br |
| 21:41 | <dpkg> | Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br on irc.oftc.net (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-portuguese/ |
| 21:42 | <mooff> | s/pt/it/ |
| 21:42 | <twb> | mooff: yeah but lucas_ was speaking brasilero |
| 21:42 | <bremner> | oh, my bad |
| 21:42 | <mooff> | ah, yeah |
| 21:43 | <mooff> | explains why "!pt" did feel right |
| 21:43 | <twb> | (Apart from anything else, it's not night time anywhere with a substantial Italian-speaking community) |
| 21:43 | <bremner> | cynically, it worked :P |
| 21:43 | <twb> | bremner: they left and didn't find #debian-br, so... no? |
| 21:44 | <bremner> | ok, mr serious pants |
| 21:45 | <mooff> | lol |
| 21:46 | <mooff> | vlc(1) is probably my solution |
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| 21:56 | -!- | Human_G33k is "realname" on #debian #debian-debsources #debian-desktop #debian-devel-changes #debian-meeting #debian-next #suckless #debian-kde #open-source-java #android-fr |
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| 22:05 | <G> | hi |
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| 22:11 | <Dami> | tws: Hello, I would like to ask you about the license compatibility between dependent libraries yesterday. You mentioned that there was an icon, but I could not find it for a long time,Could you please help to provide it,thank you |
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| 22:12 | -!- | CockoX is "CRNX" on #debian |
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| 22:13 | <Dami> | sorry is graph，not icon |
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| 22:16 | -!- | Bitxy is "steph" on #debian |
| 22:16 | <Bitxy> | yo |
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| 22:20 | <enyc> | Bitxy: this is oftc #debian general channel, there are lots of #debian-* specific channels ... |
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| 22:35 | <kirikiri> | is there a way to save everyting output by a shell/terminal? like for example if i run apt and want to save all those messages it shows me when i download a package |
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| 22:35 | <sussudio> | kirikiri: dpkg keeps a log. |
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| 22:36 | <kirikiri> | oo |
| 22:39 | <kirikiri> | sussudio: found it, thank you! |
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| 22:39 | <kirikiri> | what do i do for other terminal outputs? other than apt/dpkg |
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| 22:40 | <raven523> | "script" |
| 22:40 | <raven523> | as in the program named "script" |
| 22:41 | <kirikiri> | oh |
| 22:41 | <kirikiri> | raven523: oh found it, thank you! this looks perfect |
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| 22:42 | <raven523> | it looks like it's in bsdutils |
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| 22:42 | <kirikiri> | ok i found it im gonna figure out how to get it to work. thank you |
| 22:43 | <urk> | ARe there any other window managers that work with LXDE beside sddm? I find the print very small in the screens, and would like to use something else if at all possible. No one is responding in #lxde. Channel has been completely quiet for more than a week even though a lot of people are supposedly in there. |
| 22:44 | <raven523> | sddk is a display manager, not a window manager, but any recent display manager such as lightdm or gdm should also work with lxde |
| 22:44 | <themill> | sddm is a display manager (deals with login) nothing else. |
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| 22:53 | <hedayet757> | hey |
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| 23:10 | <moh> | hello ! |
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| 23:14 | <kidx> | how can i fix this Dependency is not satisfiable: libappindicator1 |
| 23:14 | <kidx> | I wanna install discord i had it installed once |
| 23:15 | <gateway2000> | kidx You could potentially backport it from sid |
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| 23:16 | <kidx> | how would I do that i am failry new to this |
| 23:16 | <kidx> | well debian i am coming from ubuntu i just want the real deal |
| 23:17 | <gateway2000> | kidx this is the guide that I use: https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation |
| 23:17 | <alex11> | wow! *the* debian? can i have your autograph? |
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| 23:22 | <somiaj> | kidx: I have installed the libary from buster |
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| 23:23 | <somiaj> | I have libappindicator and libindicator7 installed from buster in bullseye. |
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| 23:30 | <kidx> | how you install them i added the repo and i cannot install them |
| 23:34 | <somiaj> | if you added the repo you can just apt update, and apt install them, you can also just manually download the two .debs from packages.debian.org and dpkg -i them |
| 23:35 | <kidx> | i added testing main |
| 23:38 | <somiaj> | don't add testing to stable |
| 23:39 | <kirikiri> | im not sure if its applicable in ur system but you may want to read the debian wiki 'frankendebian' article |
| 23:39 | <somiaj> | buster is oldstable |
| 23:39 | <somiaj> | My suggestion was to install two old libs from buster, which is fine since it is just two libs nothing else depends on |
| 23:40 | <kidx> | i am trying to find the libappindicator1 deb file |
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| 23:42 | <kidx> | got it |
| 23:42 | <kidx> | installed |
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| 23:42 | <kidx> | all i do is search for the deb file ion the site and download it install it and install discord |
| 23:42 | <kidx> | thank you guys |
| 23:43 | <somiaj> | remove testing from your soruces.list if you added it, that is only asking for a world of pain |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Sep 07 00:00:27 2021 |