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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-07

---Logopened Tue Sep 07 00:00:27 2021
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00:01-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
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00:14<urk>urk
00:17<twb>kidx: re appindicator, this is mentioned in the Release Notes
00:17<twb>https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2018/03/msg00506.html
00:17<urk>raven523: I am using sddm not sddk. Lightdm didn't work with LXDE. The print is too small with sddm, and the interface is a bit primitive. However, its great for older equipment that doesn't have enough bandwidth or computing power.
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00:19<twb>urk: why not run xdm?
00:20<urk>twb: Have you tried xdm with LXDE?
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00:20<twb>Not lately
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00:20-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
00:20<urk>XFCE quit working with the latest update and Debian 10.9, and Kernel 5.10 still crashes with my system so I am staying with kernel 4.19 for now, but plan on trying it in emulation mode when I get time.
00:21<urk>Does it work with LXDE?
00:21<twb>xdm-only install: 472MiB
00:21<twb>sddm-only install: 601MiB
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00:22<urk>sddm has some quirks in the sense that minimized program icons show twice in the panel bar: one large one on the left, and a miniature one on the right. Its kind of weird.
00:22<raven523>sddm doesn't have a panel bar? are you sure you're talking about the right WM?
00:22<urk>Also documents folder doesn't sync all data once it is placed in the panel bar, and only one panel bar is allowed on the bottom. For that reason I placed program icons above the menu bar that were snapped to grid, but it has to be done individually for each icon.
00:23<urk>sddm has a panel bar, but only allows one of them at the bottom. This is in contrast to XFCE which is a lot more customizable. XFCE will allow you to have two panels bars at the bottom.
00:23<kidx>until Discord goes to that those librarys are no good for me.
00:24<urk>Another problem with LXDE is that panel items don't necessarily have primary focus, and not sure now to give them focus without spending a fair amount of time looking into it. As a result, your browser and programs cover up the date if you select the calendar icon.
00:25<urk>Also, can't figure out how to restore the desktop icon control to the panel. I deleted it by mistake.
00:25<twb>urk: that's up to the WM, per the EWMH hints
00:25<urk>Its ok, but XFCE is more feature rich, and less buggy.
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00:33<ppc64>small problem with apt-get update wherein I am told "/usr/bin/which: this version of `which' is deprecated; use `command -v' in scripts instead." and then "Processing triggers for initramfs-tools" dies. followed by "dpkg: error processing package initramfs-tools". Any way around this?
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00:38<jm_>ppc64: does update-initramfs also fail with the same error?
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00:41<somiaj>ppc64: I doubt that warning is causing issues, there are going to be lots of install scripts that need to be updated due to removing this binary (in the future)
00:42<ppc64>I try "dpkg --configure -a
00:42<ppc64>then see update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
00:42<ppc64>etc etc then Processing triggers for initramfs-tools (0.140) ...
00:42<ppc64>Killed
00:42<ppc64>not pretty
00:43<raven523>are there any interesting errors in dmesg?
00:43<ppc64>lemme check
00:44<somiaj>I would follow jm_ advice and run update-initramfs manually, and then see if you can figure out why it is failing
00:44<somiaj>ppc64: also in the future, please use #debian-next for testing
00:44<ppc64>geez .. 10000 lines of verbose crap from systemd .. nothing special
00:45<ppc64>maybe there is a pkg somewhere in transition and I just need to wait a day
00:45<twb>ppc64: journalctl -kp4
00:45<ppc64>this is "sid" afterall
00:45<jm_>in that case best stick to #debian-next indeed
00:46<ppc64>ahhh .. sorry .. I am surprised to see uname -a say " 5.10.0-8-686 " but /etc/debian_version says bookworm/sid. so .. away to debian-nexy I guess
00:47<ppc64>sorry for the noises
00:48<somiaj>,kernels
00:48<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.13.0-trunk-686 (5.13.12-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); bullseye: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.8-686 (5.10.46-4~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-17-686-pae (4.19.194-3); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.17-686-pae (4.19.194-3~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
00:48<judd>4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1); bookworm: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4); bullseye-backports: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-4)
00:48<somiaj>ppc64: looks like newer kernels haven't made their way into sid yet
00:48<ppc64>somiaj: clearly ...
00:49<ppc64>then again this is an i386 VMware image that exists so that I have a 32-bit reference machine around somewhere .. anything may happen therein I guess
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01:27<urk>Storage with LXDE has too much latency. I save documents, and can't see them when I go into the file, but the save routine sees them. I had this problem with XFCE, but the latency was significantly less. I think I need to get rid of LXDE.
01:29<urk>Maybe it isn't latency. I selected the "show hidden" files, and they all appeared.
01:29<urk>They shouldn't have been hidden in the first place.
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02:43<Dami>Hello, everyone
02:43<Dami>Consult the cve problem, https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-38593
02:44<Dami>There is no corresponding fix submitted from salsa, but the status has been changed to fixed, what does that mean
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02:44<Dami>5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u4
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02:44<Dami>The current version does not have this CVE problem?
02:45<twb>Dami: doesn't that just mean upstream released the fix before disclosing the CVE?
02:45<Dami>5.11.3 Upstream doesn't maintain this anymore
02:46<twb>dunno then, sorry
02:46<Dami>oo thanks
02:47<Dami>twb: Is it possible that, The current version does not have this CVE problem
02:48<twb>I'd have to dig into the specifics to answer that with any confidence - and I can't be arsed
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02:51<somiaj>qtbase-opensource-src <not-affected> (Vulnerable code introduced later)
02:52<somiaj>looks like the vuln code was introduced in 6.0 somewhere, which is newer than any version in debian
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02:52<somiaj>which that info was on the page you linked
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02:59<Dami>somiaj:thanks
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02:59<somiaj>Read the notes at the bottom of the page, it even has a link to the exact commit that introduced the vulnable code
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03:00<Dami>https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=CVE-2021-38593 susu close this
03:01<Dami>INVALID
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03:01<somiaj>And that relates to debian how?
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03:02<somiaj>but also appears to be the same issue, their packages are < 6.0 which has the vuln code
03:02<Dami>I don’t know why debian sets the status to repaired
03:02<somiaj>What about the notes do you not understand, the vulnable code is not in debian.
03:03<twb>I think Dami is saying "why is it 'fixed' not 'not affected'"
03:04<somiaj>I think the issue is the original CVE is incorrect on versions effected, though under the source packages it is (not affected)
03:04<Dami>twb: yes
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03:05<somiaj>so due to the incorrect version in the CVE, it needs to be fixed vs not affected which is probably set by the CVE.
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03:08<Dami>somiaj:"why is it 'fixed'
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03:09<somiaj>As said, probably due to the tracker, since the CVE says '5.0.0+ is vuln', it needs to be 'fixed' to close it
03:09<twb>Dami: I think because wrongly claimed 5.0 was broken, Debian marked it as "affected", and the rules say it cannot go from "affected" to "not affected"
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03:10<Dami>I'm sorry I still don't understand what you said
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03:11<somiaj>The CVE said 5.0+ is affected, so the tracker opened an issue in which the debian packages are affected, the way you close that issue is mark the packages as fixed
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03:12<somiaj>though the fix in this case was trivial, since the issue was a bad version in the CVE, and due to the tracker software, fixed was needed to close the issue
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03:12<somiaj>though really I don't see the issue here, the packages in debian are not vulnable, and you are just running into how the tracker tags things.
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03:16<Dami>somiaj :twb:I understand, thank you very much
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03:23<Dami>Excuse me again,
03:23<Dami>My program uses multiple dependent libraries. How to judge the compatibility of the license agreement between the dependent libraries? Is there any method or specification?
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03:24<bentham>Dami: do you have a lawyer?
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03:24<Dami>no
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03:25<bentham>You should get one. Then work with this person to determine the right questions, and come back here to ask them once this is done.
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03:26<bentham>I don't mean to say that your question is inappropriate, but at one level the compatibility of license agreements is a legal question.
03:26<somiaj>You may find other sources better than here for legal issues like this, a lot here may not be the place you want legal advise.
03:27<somiaj>We can help point you at the info about the license of the various software in debian, but this is your software and not really a debian question.
03:27<Dami>I mean is there any way to detect it
03:28<Dami>I am not sure if there is such a rule
03:29<bentham>Debian might have some conventions about how it presents licenses in its packages. Maybe that will help, although it will not answer your question completely.
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03:30<Dami>Thanks, this is not what i want
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03:31<somiaj>Dami: wasn't this resolved last time, gpl2 and gpl3 are not compatiable, But for more details you may find a better place than this volunteer support room for legal advise
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03:32<Dami>Not this problem
03:33<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/
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03:33<Dami>I want to find license agreement detection between dependent libraries
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03:33<somiaj>note debian copyright files should be machine readable, so you can use that to write a script to check licenses
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03:34<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/CopyrightReviewTools
03:35<Dami>For example, I rely on libA and libB. Is there any conflict in the license agreement between libA and libB?
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03:36<Dami>somiaj:thanks I will try licensecheck
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03:37<themill>Dami: if they're in the same unix process, then they need to have compatible licences, yes.
03:39<Dami>themill: Do you have any relevant requirements or specifications? thanks
03:40<themill>legal things don't tend to come with nicely posed specification documents
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03:41<Dami>I only guide the need to be compatible, but I don’t know if the test is compatible and whether there are relevant regulations
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04:02<umlaeute>is there a way to change the alternatives priority of a link group outside of the packages's maintscripts?
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04:12<ASC_nickname>Dami: as of past years history the question is not in technical space. License compatibility and regulations are a sofisticated question for a lawer. There are lot's of well known licenses. I belive somwhere exist a list of combibations and consequences. These combinations are more complex then simple binary answer yes-no. Complexity example: may sources be sold, should src be opened, may src be changed by smb else.
04:13<ASC_nickname>Every license may be only partially compatible and it depends on goals.
04:15<sussudio>everything depends on goats.
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04:17<umlaeute>mostly
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04:40<Dami>ASC_nickname:ok thanks
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05:47<EmleyMoor>What's the highest possible PID in bullseye?
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05:48<grawity>2**22 according to kernel.pid_max
05:49<sussudio>that's over 9000.
05:49<tjcarter>That's a large psdoom level.
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06:39<netcrash>Hello, how can I specify a 11 repo on a version 10 (buster) as second source and not the default?
06:39<tjcarter>netcrash: pinning.
06:39<tjcarter>netcrash: why would you want to do this? it's not generally safe.
06:40<babilen>What are you trying to achieve? might be better to either upgrade or utilise backports
06:41<tjcarter>We can certainly tell you how—and my general opinion is that we should, given that you understand what you're doing first. But it is dangerous to do, so the reason you'd attempt it becomes important. We can then warn you that it'll make your system unbootable if you're not careful, then stand back and watch you do it if you're not.
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06:55<tjcarter>netcrash: to do what you want, you can addd an /etc/apt/preferences.d/ and use the recipe in man apt_preferences for this (open the manpage and type 156g to get right to it), with the release set to bullseye
06:56<tjcarter>but again, as babilen and I asked, what're you trying to accomplish by doing that? There might be a better, safer way.
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07:04<netcrash>well I won't to install openvpn version of bullseye in Debian
07:04<netcrash>buster
07:04<netcrash>babilen:
07:04<jm_>,check-backport openvpn
07:04<judd>Backporting package openvpn in sid→bullseye/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12).
07:04<jm_>should be trivial
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07:05<netcrash>what should I place then? I got confused since I already have a backport line pointing to buster should it be poiting to bullseye?
07:06<jm_>backport it yourself
07:06<jm_>!ssb
07:06<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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07:07<tjcarter>not sid in this case, but a deb-src for buster
07:07<jm_>yeah adjust as needed
07:09<tjcarter>hmm, lightdm/slick-greeter seem not to provide a means to change mouse cursor size yet
07:09<tjcarter>I think the only way to do it for now is twiddling with gsettings as root
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08:08<Dudly>Hello all, I have a wireguard problem here on a Debian 10 system, would there be someone here available for this kind of stuff?
08:09<grawity>the chance of someone being available increases if the problem is described upfront
08:09<amcclure>Hello Dudly, what seems to be the problem?
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08:09<Dudly>Hi! thanks for replying.
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08:10<Dudly>amcclure: Well I am trying to set up a vpn on a dns debian 10 server.
08:10<Dudly>In earlier days I found that my first problem was that I was on a openVZ based vps server, which created a kernel problem for the wireguard package.
08:11<Dudly>After passing this difficulties by setting up a KVM based server,
08:11<Dudly>I am in a new situation.
08:11<crawler>Whats seems to be the problem in the new situation?
08:12<Dudly>My vps is running fine. The wireguard service (wg-quick@wg0.service)
08:12<Dudly>runs fine
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08:12<Dudly>But...........
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08:12<Dudly>When I connect form a local laptop to the vps by using a wireguard client tool,
08:12<Dudly>I makes connection, but it is useless.
08:13<samsepi0l>hello
08:13<Dudly>When I visit a dns lookup site like dnsleaktest.com, I see my local routers ip address
08:13<Dudly>so , even tough the client says there is a connection it doesn't work.....
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08:14<Dudly>i think there is a routing problem here, but I have no idea how to tackle this
08:14<grawity>there's a lot of things that comprise "a connection"
08:14<grawity>does your wg-quick config specify DNS servers?
08:15<Dudly>I know, but I din't know how to explain you
08:15<Dudly>yes, there is a pihole included on the same server.
08:15<grawity>(e.g. with systemd-resolved, I don't exactly remember how it behaves, but IIRC requests for each interface's nameservers are made through that interface first or something)
08:15<Dudly>That is also weird.
08:15<Dudly>Before I set up pivpn (wireguard) I deployed the system with pihole.
08:16<Dudly>At that moment. I could curl the server with a query on port 53, and i found pihole was working
08:16<grawity>ok, so start with the DNS servers and with routing to them – after wg-quick is up, 1) what servers are in /etc/resolv.conf, 2) what servers are in `resolvectl` in case systemd-resolved is in use, 3) assuming those are the expected servers: which interface does `ip route get` return for each of them?
08:16<Dudly>now, after I installed pivpn as a 2th step.
08:17<Dudly>It is dead . I can't curl port 53 on the server anymore from a local pc.
08:17<grawity>I'm not sure how you're using curl on port 53
08:17<Dudly>However, when I login to the pihole/pivpn server, I can do the same curl port 53 request, and then it gives answer. I checked ufw, It allows, port 53 only for the ip of my local router, so that is not the issue
08:18<grawity>but in most cases this seems *more* normal than it actually working
08:18<Dudly>moment
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08:19<Dudly>dig googel.com @111.11.11.111 -p 53
08:20<Dudly>(sorry google,com
08:20<Dudly>)
08:20<grawity>ok, that makes sense (except for it not being curl at all)
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08:21<Dudly>You asked me 3 steps to check. Could we handle them one by one?
08:21<Dudly>.....sorry for that, my mistake....
08:21<grawity>if you're testing with dig, you can skip to step 3 for now, and check `ip route get 111.11.11.111` to check whether it is routed over wireguard
08:23<Dudly>I am not sure if I understood your question right. I have 2 interface. 1 the vps interface which carries the ip connection the internet. and 2. wg0 , the interface the wireguard install script created
08:24<grawity>right, so if 111.11.11.111 is your pivpn DNS server, then that should return "111.11.11.111 dev wg0" or something similar
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08:26<Dudly>grawity, sorry i am being silly I guess. I don't understand which command you want me to give to test
08:27<Dudly>yes the dns is on the same server.
08:27<Dudly>same ip address
08:27<jm_>the command was written in full: ip route get 111.11.11.111
08:27<Dudly>I do this from the client or on the server itself?
08:28<Dudly>the client i guess...moment
08:31<Dudly>193.42.39.xxx via 192.xxx.xxx.1 dev enp1s0 src 192.168.178.yy uid 1000
08:31<Dudly> cache
08:31<Dudly>is this good?
08:32<grawity>is 193.42.39.xxx the DNS server or the VPN server, or both?
08:32<Dudly>both
08:32<Dudly>(i tried to switch off ufw on the server for testing, same results)
08:32<grawity>that does make things slightly more complex, I think (though wg-quick can deal with it through policy routing)
08:33<grawity>was wg-quick "connected" when you did this?
08:33<Dudly>wg-quick was not connected when I gave the 'ip route get 111.11.11.111' command
08:34<grawity>that makes it slightly pointless though, since you're trying to figure out why it's not working with the VPN up ----
08:34<Dudly>I only have a wireguard client on a windows machine here. if you want me to test with connection, what is the cmd (windows) equilavent?
08:35<grawity>-- actually I'm getting extremely confused about the whole situation now
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08:35<twb>Dudly: 111.11.11.111 does not sound like a correct address
08:36<twb>Hrm, that maps to error.arpa.
08:36<Dudly>well, there is a server like you understood correctly. And there are several systems I can use to send commands. I have only 1 windows laptop here, that has a wireguard client tool. If I make a connection with it, I need a cmd command that does the job like on a linux machine 'ip route get 111.11.11.111'
08:37<Dudly>No, I used '111.11.11.111' as a dummy to hide my real ip
08:37<twb>Dudly: then you are doing it wrong.
08:37<twb>Dudly: there are example IPs reserved for examples
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08:37<grawity>oh for fuck's sake
08:37<Dudly>?
08:38<grawity>don't pretend to be an idiot
08:38<Dudly>ok xxx.yyy.www.zz is that better?
08:38<grawity>it's like you haven't seen people use 1.1.1.1 as an example address in the past
08:38<mentor>grawity: That isn't helpful.
08:38<Dami>twb: HI twb I need to package a program into debian, what do you need to do?
08:39<grawity>mentor: neither is the nitpicking about what IP addresses are "wrong" to use as an example
08:39<bentham>grawity: 1.1.1.1 is a scary Cloudflare address, not an example.
08:39<Dami>what do I need to do?
08:39<twb>grawity: the fact that it was "111.11.11.111" rather than "1.1.1.1" or even "111.111.111.111" confused me
08:39<Dudly>well I can't give my real ip addresses on a chat here can I?
08:39<twb>grawity: especially since it has a strange PTR
08:39<mentor>grawity: Nonetheless
08:39<twb>Dudly: why not?
08:39<grawity>this isn't official documentation where you'd use the addresses "reserved for documentation"
08:39<grawity>anyway, putting that aside. Dudly: there isn't really an equivalent for `ip route get` in Windows unfortunately
08:40<Dudly>I see. well then we do it in linux.
08:40<FLHerne>Just use example addresses that can't possibly exist :p
08:40<FLHerne>68.57.276.14
08:40<grawity>Dudly: where were you testing the server with `dig` previously, though?
08:40<grawity>Dudly: on the pi server itself, or on some other client that doesn't have wireguard?
08:41<twb>FWIW if you have Debian installed from the Windows Store, "ip route get" works perfectly well in there.
08:41<twb>It shares the routing table with the Windows personality
08:42<Dudly>I use LTSC windows 10, it has no store
08:43<twb>Dudly: is that the modern equivalent of the "education" build?
08:43<twb>Literally every result on the first page of ddg.gg/?q=ltsc+windows is "how to install store on ltsc" :-)
08:44<Dudly>something like that. No 'bloatware' and 'telemtry' by default
08:44<grawity>ok, to clarify, I'm also *not really interested* in `ip route get` from WSL, even if it's from WSL1 which happens to share the same routing table
08:44<Dudly>I have time for that now
08:44<babilen>netcrash: In regard to installing the bullseye version on your box. Any particular reason why you wouldn't want to upgrade to the current stable release (i.e. bullseye) ? That's almost certainly easier (and ultimately inevitable) than backporting software yourself. See https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html for the upgrade procedure
08:44<twb>Ah "LTSC" is their "LTS", i.e. long term support. It's intended for things like ATMs and lightbulbs
08:45<Dudly>and hospitals
08:45<twb>urgh life critical, /me runs away
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08:46<ASC_name>Dudly, what does it mean: I makes connection, but it is useless? If you are able to ping both VPN channel's internal IP at both sides, then it works very well. Did you set up forwarding in kernel, Netfilter (Iptables) rules and routing?
08:46<Dudly>youære right, and even this version is not stable
08:46<jelly>we coud probably figure out routes from the actual "route print" output if you give actual ip addresses
08:46<jelly>and "ipconfig /all"
08:46<grawity>Windows' DNS client also pays attention to interfaces and stuff, not just plain "destination IP" routing
08:47<grawity>but I'm more curious about
08:47<grawity>where was the dig test done
08:47<Dudly>thanks for the offer. But I feel uncomfortable giving that. I understand you have very good intensions
08:47<jelly>okay, there might be experts in here willing to provide a consult under NDA for $$$
08:49<Dudly>grawity: the dig test was done : 1. from a linux pc here at the client site. without a wireguard connection, but the router's public ip was allowed in the servers' firewall.
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08:50<Dudly>2. I tested the command to on the server itself, where the dns (isntalled on the same vps) gave me answer
08:51<Dudly>before i installed pivpn, it also gave a response in situation 1
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08:51<Dudly>so, after installing wireguard, i can't dig the dns on the same server from the outside
08:51<americaneagle>hi
08:51<grawity>generally, it's completely normal for pihole-kinda DNS resolvers to only respond to "local" clients (same subnet), and ISPs can actually get annoyed if you set up a DNS resolver that answers anyone and everyone
08:52<grawity>so if it doesn't reply to dig via Wireguard or in the same LAN, that's one problem
08:52<grawity>if it doesn't reply to dig via Internet from a completely different location, that's another, and one that should be kept as-is
08:52<twb>BTW if the ultimate goal is "my Debian 10 host is now a wg client", you can also ask in #wireguard, they are excellent at wg support
08:52<Dudly>so i triedto explain you i didn't do that. it has a firewall and only allows my routers WAN ip
08:52<grawity>ok
08:53<Dudly>oh, i didn't know.
08:53<Dudly>I will try for that group than
08:53<grawity>so in that case, if you want it to work without Wireguard at all, the `ip route get` output makes sense
08:54<grawity>but use tcpdump or wireshark to check whether the pi is actually *receiving* the query at all
08:54<Dudly>it was only meant to test things out. If the dns is not working, how can I expect wireguard to work?
08:54<grawity>that's under the assumption that ufw is the only factor in both cases
08:54<twb>get wg working with hard-coded IP addresses first. Only then worry about DNS.
08:54<grawity>which isn't a really good assumption
08:55<Dudly>twb, how do i do that?
08:55<twb>Dudly: [WireGuardPeer] Endpoint=203.7.155.1:51820
08:55<twb>instead of [WireGuardPeer] Endpoint=vpn.cyber.com.au:51820
08:56<twb>That's assuming you're using systemd's built-in wireguard client/server. If you're using network-manager I don't know
08:56<twb>It's basically the same though
08:57<Dudly>right, i see your meaning. I tried that already. I use a hard ip in your example a a client connection syntax
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08:58<Dudly>first I configured it using the domain,same result. note that wireguard saysther eis a connection, and on the server i can see the existing coneection to by giving: pivpn -c
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09:00<Dudly>I can see the connection listed on the server itzelf. So the problem is in the routing later
09:00<Dudly>or something else goes wrong which i don't understand
09:00<twb>Is the Debian host the wg client, or the wg server?
09:01<Dudly>1.There is a debian 10 vps server, with pihole and wireguard. 2. I am testing with a local windows laptop with wireguard client installed
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09:02<twb>Dudly: so you want debian to be the wg server?
09:02<Dudly>yes
09:02<twb>OK.
09:02<Dudly>and a pihole server
09:03<grawity>wireguard is almost-connectionless, so be careful with "seeing the connection listed" – tools like `wg` always list statically configured peers whether they're connected or not... it has to *also* show a recent "latest handshake" time next to your client's entry, for it to actually mean connected
09:03<grawity>but if your client is windows, I think that waits for a handshake so it should be fine
09:03<Dudly>(pihole only accept from connected wireguard clients)
09:03<twb>Yes. And during testing your should turn on keepalive, so you will see a steady slow trickle of packets
09:03<Dudly>right, wireguard on the windows machine says it creates the connection. green light.
09:04<Dudly>Butafter, when I go to sites like dnsleaktest.com, i see my ips ip address not my vps address!
09:04<Dudly>so it doesn't work
09:04<grawity>on the windows client, what AllowedIPs= are configured for the server?
09:04<twb>Dudly: turn on keepalive in the client. tcpdump the appropriate interface OUTSIDE the VPN, on BOTH ends, and confirm the keepalive packets leave Windows and arrive on Debian
09:04<grawity>and
09:04<grawity>actually
09:05<twb>If they aren't arriving, fix your firewalls/routes. Once they are arriving, fix AllowedIPs.
09:05<Dudly>sorry, a gap in my knowhow....keepalive?
09:05<Dudly>i that an option in wireguard client?
09:05<twb>Dudly: it's part of the wg options. In the windows client I think it's a tickbox. or just import the wg.conf.
09:06<Dudly>moment
09:06<Dudly>no, it is a very simple windows application gui. no extra options
09:07<Dudly>only log
09:07<twb>CONFIGURATION FILE FORMAT [Peer] PersistentKeepalive=1 https://manpages.debian.org/wg
09:07<grawity>Dudly: do websites actually show that your *normal browsing* gows through the vpn?
09:07<Dudly>I see
09:07<grawity>not dns, but website access
09:07<twb>Dudly: er, are you using the first-party wireguard client for Windows? Or did you write your own?
09:07<grawity>twb: they're expecting it to be a global option in wg settings
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09:08<twb>It's a per-connection option.
09:08<grawity>Dudly: keepalive is an option to be added in the connection profile, next to other peer settings
09:08<Dudly>there is only a 'edit' button that allows me to edit the config for the connection
09:08<Dudly>I see
09:08<twb>Then edit it and manually type in the option
09:09<twb>It's the same actual codebase as the linux client
09:09<Dudly>so I just add: PersistentKeepalive=1 in the config?
09:09<twb>Dudly: in the [Peer] section, yes
09:09<Dudly>moment
09:09<grawity>the value is in seconds, something like 30 or 60 or 120 may make more sense
09:11<Dudly>so i used 60 seconds. same situation. When I connect the client tool says there is a connection, but I can't visit dnsleaktest.com only a sandbox no results
09:11<Dudly>after 60 seconds. my ips ip shows up
09:12<Dudly>itpivpn -c on the vps gives a confirmed vpn connection...............
09:12<Dudly>weird
09:12<twb>grawity: it's just testing. 1 packet every second is fine during testing
09:13<twb>keepalive should be disable in prod for security reasons
09:13<Dudly>so now we did this, what do we have?
09:13<Dudly>the clients gui says there is a connection..
09:13<Dudly>but there is not
09:13<twb>Dudly: now you've saved that, restart the connectoin on the client side. Then start tcpdumping
09:13<Dudly>ok
09:14<grawity>not sure I see the security reasons but ok
09:14<Dudly>so i diconnected and connected again
09:14<twb>grawity: it makes traffic analysis harder
09:14<Dudly>sandbox again
09:15<twb>grawity: 1 packet every 30s is easier to track than 0 packets every 30s
09:15<twb>(It probably matters less if you are sending EVERYTHING over the vpn)
09:15<Dudly>?
09:16<Dudly>a vpn connecion is there to send everything trough the tunnel no?
09:16<twb>no
09:16<grawity>for some users, not for 100% of them
09:17<grawity>a lot only need a VPN *just* to access one specific destination, like their corp network or their home lan
09:17<Dudly>but on dnsleaktest.com I can see my used ip address on the first page. If i see my ips ip address it means there is no vpn connection ?
09:17<grawity>no
09:18<grawity>it means the specific connection to dnsleaktest.com wasn't routed over the vpn
09:18<grawity>hence the question about what AllowedIPs= you have on windows
09:18<grawity>(which is used by wireguard to set up routes, as well)
09:19<grawity>in your case I think you're supposed to have "AllowedIPs = ::/0, 0.0.0.0/0" which makes the client route literally everything via the tunnel
09:19<twb>IMO confirm the wg packets are getting to the wg server and back at all before checking AllowedIPs=
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09:19<twb>grawity: I agree re /0
09:19<Dudly>moment
09:19<grawity>I strongly suspect they do, as I remember the Windows client actually waiting for handshake and showing an error message when it times out
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09:20<grawity>though it would probably be useful to test on the server, yes
09:20<twb>grawity: I don't remember that, but I've done like 7 different OSs so I'm fuzzy
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09:20<twb>Also just like... basic tcpdump is easy and a skill every netadm should have, so just do it
09:20<grawity>(but I'd start by checking "last handshake" in `sudo wg` on the server, if that's recent then no need for tcpdump or investigating the keepalives)
09:21<twb>That would also work
09:22<twb>The hardest part of wg is that AllowedIPs= needs to be different for client and server
09:22<twb>I can never get my head around it
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09:28<twb>http://ix.io/3ycp is one that's actually working right now, but isn't doing 0/0 and is using public IPs for the corporate network, so may confuse you
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09:30<Dudly>grawity, after connection with that, mIRC kicked me out of the chat sorry
09:30<Dudly>guys,
09:30<twb>23:28 <twb> http://ix.io/3ycp is one that's actually working right now, but isn't doing 0/0 and is using public IPs for the corporate network, so may confuse you
09:31<twb>http://ix.io/3ycq is the config files that create those. I am only using systemd so that I can do policy routing on DNS resolution.
09:32<cmtptr>is there no way to search the debian bug tracker for resolved bugs?
09:32<twb>cmtptr: across all packages, or a specific package?
09:32-!-dob1 [~dob1@0002bdab.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: quit]
09:32<cmtptr>a specific package
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09:32<twb>cmtptr: for the latter, I do bts show src:auto-apt-proxy archive=both
09:33<twb>cmtptr: reportbug can also do this. Also "querybts" can do complex SOAP queries.
09:33<grawity>twb: imo just treat AllowedIPs as a regular outbound routing table (which only happens to do inbound filtering as well)
09:33<cmtptr>what
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09:33<twb>cmtptr: run /usr/bin/bts
09:33<Dudly>this is getting weirder. so when I use: ::/0, 0.0.0.0/0 , I can open the vpn connection. I can't visit any domain in my browser, Even when I use the hard ip address (i looked it up) for that domain I visit. In the browser it does nothing. But...when I go to powershell in windows , I can use a command ' ifconfig.me/ip).Content.Trim() 'to show my public ip address (after connecetion) and then
09:33<Dudly>it shows me the vps address!!!
09:34<twb>grawity: I think that's sensible, at least for Dudly
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09:34<twb>It's past my bedtime so I'm increasinly non-lucid
09:34<Dudly>i understand. We better stop than for now
09:34<Dudly>thanks for all
09:34<twb>Dudly: sounds to me like the 0/0 route is working
09:35<Dudly>still i don't understand,
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09:35<twb>Dumb question
09:35<cmtptr>i see now, "fixed" is a severity
09:35<twb>Is ip_forward=1 on your Debian host?
09:35<Dudly>yes ,but i can't visit anything with the browser. Also not when I use hard IP address in the browser.
09:35<twb>cmtptr: yes - hidden by default
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09:36<twb>Dudly: you really need a more precise test than 'browse to stuff in GUI browser'
09:36<Dudly>yes, i forget that . ip_forward=1 ison I checked thatearlier
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09:36<twb>Dudly: yeah OK so back to "do tcpdumping to isolate the fault"
09:39<Dudly>ok. I open the browser (firefox) on the machine where i have wireguard client witha running connection and, where I used the powershell command which showed there is a vps ip address as public ip. so to test if I can use that connection i open firefox and usea hard ip address of the site dnsleaktest.com ( Pinging dnsleaktest.com [23.239.16.110] with 32 bytes of data:) to see if i can surd
09:39<Dudly>the net. (this way I avoid dns problems in the connection) still, no reply inthe browser, i can't see anything but a sanbox
09:40<twb>Dudly: your powershell command is also just running a browser, I think
09:40<Dudly>?
09:40<twb>"ifconfig.me" sure sounds like a website
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09:41<twb>And "ifconfig" isn't bound in the default powershell environment, though "ipconfig /all" is
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09:41<Dudly>twb: I didn't catch your hints.
09:42<Dudly>ipconfig /all shows me only the LAN ip details
09:42<Dudly>not WAN
09:42<twb>Dudly: my point is, your powershell command is just more web browsing
09:42<twb>It's equivalent of doing "curl https://ifconfig.me/ip"
09:43<Dudly>yes, but since my browser it not replying, I have no choice to use a powershell command
09:43<Dudly>see, i don't understand the problem here i am trying to test things
09:43<twb>It's suspicious that they would behave differently, but in either case, a low-level test would be better
09:44<Dudly>tell me what to do
09:44<twb>Dudly: run tcpdump on each interface and observe the packets passing through it
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09:45<Dudly>is tcpdump meant to execute on the server? (sorry I don't know tcpdump yet...)
09:45<Dudly>please give me the context for an interface
09:46<twb>Dudly: you would run tcpdump on every host you have access to
09:46<twb>Dudly: the interface names are reported by "ipconfig /all" on windows and "ip link" on Linux.
09:46<Dudly>just tcpdump, I don't need to mention the interface on the serveR?
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09:47<twb>Something like "tcpdump -i 'Local Area Connection* 2'"
09:47<twb>Dudly: it guesses by default, but it will usually guess wrong
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09:48<Dudly>ok, I will try but I think the chat wil be killed when I open cvpn connection. If that happens We better stop for now, You put very much effort in it. Time to rest
09:48<twb>So you would want to do something like: tcpdump -p -n -i enp2s0f1 'host example.com or host 10.1.2.3'
09:49<Dudly>understood. thanks I will try
09:49<twb>Or even just "everything that isn't ssh", tcpdump -p -n -i wg-my-cool-VPN 'not port 22'
09:49<twb>man tcpdump, man pcap-filter.
09:49<twb>For complicated analysis, "tcpdump -w tmp.pcap" and then later open that in wireshark
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09:50<twb>For this stuff you're basically doing connectivity and firewall debugging, so you just want to see if packets arrive and response packets arrive, at each successive step
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09:51<twb>For ping, the filter is "icmp"
09:51<a>Hi, I'm trying to use two nameservers. The first NS is my router . the second NS is 10.10.1.23, which is related to openvpn which I'm connected to. But both servers doesn't work togther. If I want to open google for examplee, I must comment the 10.~ IP... If I want to open websites relateted to the openvpn network, I must comment my router IP. I have read few articles such as https://serverfault.com/questions/398837/second-nameserver-in-etc-
09:51<a>resolv-conf-not-picked-up-by-wget .. Still I didn't manage to fdix the problem. Please hilight my name when u answer. thanks in advance
09:51<jm_>you can also use wireshark, it's a gui for tcpdump (also works in windows)
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09:52<jm_>a: I use dnsmasq's split dns config for that, systemd-resolved can do similar thing
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09:53<a>jm_: editing /etc/resolv.conf can't fix the issue?
09:53<a>I never used dnsmasq but will google it now and see if I can use it, thank you.
09:53<jm_>a: well not if you need to use both at the same time
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09:53<twb>Dudly: the Windows built-in equivalent of tcpdump is called "pktmon". Something like "pktmon list; pktmon filter add ???; pktmon start". I don't know, it looks painful.
09:54<jm_>a: my setup is very similar to this https://briantward.github.io/split-dns-vpn-local-dnsmasq/
09:55<Dudly>thanks guys. I turned out to be far more complex as i gueassed. I will go for now and test it
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09:56<khaos>Just for testing: can someone read me?
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09:57<jm_>yes
09:57<khaos>Thank you
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10:00<a>Thanks jm_ reading it right now.. I'm just very confused, why /etc/resolv.conf didn't use the 2nd NS if the 1st one fail to resolve the domain. https://askubuntu.com/questions/1203450/connect-to-multiple-dnsmasq-servers-at-a-time
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10:01<a>Sorry I
10:02<a>Sorry, I dced, if any answer !
10:02<jm_>a: I never bothered investigating that - I want to avoid even querying the other dns server
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10:03<a>ok :) fair enough.
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10:09<jm_>hmm can't test it now with my vpn overwriting resolv.conf :)
10:10<twb>a: if you're using resolv.conf via glibc nss-dns, then that behaviour is configurable
10:10<twb>e.g. "rotate Sets RES_ROTATE in _res.options, which causes round-robin selection of name servers from among those listed.'
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10:13<jm_>yeah nsswitch.conf settings also apply
10:14<a>twb: how to know if I use resolv.conf via glibc nss-dns?
10:14<twb>read the source of your app
10:14<twb>most things use it. systemd doesn't. firefox doesn't.
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10:15<a>twb make sense, then this is why firefox, read only first NS not the second.
10:17<twb>I recommend using systemd-resolved if you can
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10:17<twb>apt install libnss-resolve libnss-myhostname
10:17<twb>^ that should suffice for most things
10:17<tjcarter>yes, for most people systemd provides resolv.conf, and it's generally a good thing that you use systemd-resolved on a systemd system
10:18<tjcarter>it avoids a few headaches when things get out of sync
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10:26<a>Thank you verymuch guys, now It works fine :) .
10:27<a>After I finish maybe I will try to let every interface use specific NS. for example eth0 use ns1 wlan0 uses ns2 tap0 uses ns3 etc. XD
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10:27<a>Don't know if something like this should be possible, but will give a shoot
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10:29<jm_>it's possible with systemd AFAIK
10:30<jm_>(and configurable using NM)
10:30<jm_>but off now
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10:56<v_>Привет. Кто тут есть ? И как этим пользоваться ?
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11:00<a>twb: I have googled the lib name, https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/libnss-myhostname/nss-myhostname.8.en.html . And now I understood, why it solved the problem but I would like to know how did you know this? is it an art of knowing what to search for in google?? or specific course you studied before? Just curious and want to know why I couldn't solve the problem
11:00<twb>a: I didn't think libnss-myhostname would fix your problem
11:00<twb>a: but it fixes *a* problem so I mentioned it as part of libnss-resolve
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11:00<twb>a: both are part of systemd
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11:01<twb>(In fact, I think libnss-myhostname is the only good piece of code I've ever audited from Poettering)
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11:01<LdS_>hey jest ktos z PL?
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11:02<twb>!pl
11:02<dpkg>Na kanale #debian rozmawiamy po angielsku; jesli chcesz lub wolisz mowic po polsku, wejdz na kanal #debian-pl na irc.libera.chat - debian-user-polish@lists.debian.org
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11:05<a>twb: , okie thanks
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11:05<LdS_>jak sie dostac na kanal z jezykiem pl
11:06<twb>LdS_: sorry, I do not speak Polish
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11:12<srbaker>Heya folks. I'm having a weird problem. I have Swedish keyboard layout specified in /etc/default/keyboard. it works in console. When I start X (windowmaker) it gives me US layout. :(
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11:18<HAL_6900>Who tried rEFInd on Debian?
11:20<tjcarter>HAL_6900: is LMDE close enough?
11:21<tjcarter>It worked, I even liked how you configure Linux command lines on it. I couldn't change fonts though (attempts failed), so I gave up on the idea of using it and went back to grub.
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11:21<twb>HAL_6900: I use it extensively
11:21<twb>HAL_6900: here is a minimal live CD: https://github.com/cyberitsolutions/bootstrap2020/blob/messing-with-zfs/debian-11-minimal.py
11:23<HAL_6900>Cool.
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11:24<twb>HAL_6900: you can use "refind-install" in most places
11:25<twb>HAL_6900: it's just too guess-y when you're not booted from the final setup. Same problem as grub
11:26<twb>The only other gotchas are that 1) it doesn't support ZFS OOTB, only btrfs; and 2) it sorts kernels by mtime, not name. So if you have backports AND non backports kernels, it'll default to the wrong one sometimes
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11:26<twb>it's much nicer than grub
11:27<hays>any ideas why this route seems to be getting added and breaking my ipv6?
11:27<hays>default via 2607:f130:0:103::1 dev eth0 metric 1024 pref medium
11:27<twb>hays: it's in North America somewher
11:27<hays>?
11:28<twb>hays: that IP address
11:28<twb>hays: most likely things to check for are it being advertised to you via RA or DHCPv6
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11:29<hays>i am on a VPS should i just make a ticket or is it possible this is something i need to configure?
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11:29<hays>basically when i restart networking service, it goes away and ipv6 works for a few minutes and then this route gets popped back in
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11:30<twb>hays: did you configure the IPv6 networking in your VPS?
11:30<hays>nope. as far as I can tell ther eis a file generated by SolusVM
11:30<twb>hays: then complain to your provider
11:30<hays>but i did have to ask them to add an ipv6 address
11:30<twb>It sounds like their falut
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11:34<hays>thanks
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12:57<aba__>hi i wanna install debian on my new ssd but the uefi system installer cannot create ext4 filesystem for root directory. but i can do that with other filesystems . any idea?
12:58<mooff>what does it say when you try, aba__ ?
12:58<mooff>more information required :)
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13:00<amacater_>aba_ : I normally start with the UEFI netinstall copied to a USB stick and boot from there. If you follow guided partitioning for the installer and put everything ion one large LVM partition - you end up with a partiton for ESP and then an LVM - you don't have to spaecify a separate boot partition.
13:01<aba__>it just didn't create that and it did go back to the list where i should select the options where i can do that again. just it not any specific error /:
13:01<amacater_>If you have a DOS formatted disk with MBR/Legacy and you try and install UEFI, sometimes it won't do it correctly.
13:01<amacater_>UEFI really requires a dedicated ESP partiton.
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13:04<aba__>no i checked them out all is fine . i also wanted to install other distros but it happened there
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13:04<aba__>also i created gpt for that i can do that with uefi and /boot/efi direcotry too
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13:09<xoddf2>Regardless of whether I set KillUserProcesses to no or 0, tmux still dies when I log out of GNOME/gdm. How do I get tmux to survive?
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13:11<bremner>xoddf2: does "loginctl enable-linger" work any better than the config setting?
13:12<bentham>xoddf2: When you detach your tmux, do you still see one running? When you ps -ef | grep tmux, is the PPID (i.e., the third column) say '1' or something else?
13:12<xoddf2>bentham: When I try to reattach tmux after logging back into GNOME, I get a fresh tmux session instead.
13:12<bentham>xoddf2: Sure, I assume you're doing this with 'tmux attach'
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13:12<xoddf2>bentham: Yes
13:13<bentham>So what I'm recommending is that you *detach* your tmux explicitly, and then check the process table to see whether the PPID of the tmux process is 1.
13:14<bentham>that's ctrl-b d to detach it
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13:19<xoddf2>bentham: I don't know if loginctl enable-linger xoddf2 (per bremner's suggestion) did it, but it seems to survive now. I have had it survive in some instances and die in others, though.
13:20<bentham>*nod*
13:20<bremner>did you daemon-reload after changing the config?
13:20<xoddf2>bremner: Yes
13:20<xoddf2>At the moment, KillUserProcesses is no and KillExcludeUsers is "root xoddf2".
13:20<bentham>Makes sense. I've never had to use loginctl before; I'm not sure why you would need it.
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13:21<bentham>bremner: why does xoddf2 need it, but I can get away without it? ;)
13:21<bremner>it's just another way to (interactively) configure logind
13:21<bremner>it shouldn't do anything different than the config (modulo typos)
13:21<bentham>bremner: Sure, but why would my systemd-logind allow 'lingering' by default?
13:22<twb>Let's file a FOI request for Zelensky to allow access to the Wish Granter
13:22<bremner>bentham: leftover configuration? no idea really.
13:23<bremner>bentham: I guess check a fresh install to see?
13:24<bentham>bremner: could be, I suppose. Most of my machines have been running continuously upgraded Debian for years, some for multiple decades.
13:25<bentham>A fresh installation is a big deal for me.
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13:27<bremner>right. maybe a minimal install in a VM, for science
13:27<bentham>:)
13:27<bentham>(or a USB stick I guess)
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13:28<bentham>Anyway, I think lingering is good. I don't like the idea of disallowing users to have lingering processes. When did Debian change that default? It is bad.
13:30<Epakai>why would pacmd be able to talk to pulseaudio when nothing else can (pactl, vlc, i3status...)?
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13:30<bremner>bentham: Is the systemd default to not allow lingering?
13:30<bremner>err, rather to allow?
13:31<tjcarter>I can say that if I logout and then shut down, systemd does not do so quickly BECAUSE of processes still running as my user.
13:31<bremner>shutdown is an unrelated annoyance afaik
13:32<bremner>oh. I see what you are saying, maybe related
13:35<bentham>bremner: well, I imagined that this is what xoddf2 was implying, since presumably xoddf2 had not disabled it explicitly. But I agree that is a presumption on my part.
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13:37<bremner>https://lwn.net/Articles/690166/
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13:37<bremner>(about the systemd default change)
13:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 1024] by debhelper
13:38<bremner>it suggests using systemd-run for tmux, fwiw
13:38-!-_Matth_ [~Matth@KD106133054213.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:38<ansgar>bremner: But processes started in gnome-terminal are not part of session-X.scope.
13:38<bentham>bremner: I see. Thank you for that; I was not aware of it! And, indeed, I don't have many machines that were installed after May 2016.
13:39<bentham>ansgar: Hmm, I also don't use gnome-terminal; perhaps I can get away with lingering sessions with xterm or ssh login?
13:40<ansgar>And what then happens is probably the third paragraph of that NEWS entry.
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13:40<bentham>ansgar: yes, the author is describing me, folks
13:41<xoddf2>I have reinstalled before just because I wanted a clean system. On my laptop here, I reinstalled with the Bullseye upgrade because when I tried the normal upgrade method, apt crapped its pants because of a mistake I made.
13:41<bentham>bremner: and yes, Dominique Martinet agrees with me ;)
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14:05<Lantizia>HEY Debian chums... (haven't used that word in a long while... now sounds kind of creepy)
14:06<Lantizia>Did something change with SSH? In the sense that... on Debian 11 I notice when I paste in a block of commands... it'll highlight them all and then wait for me to press enter.
14:06<Lantizia>I'm not complaining about that - but just curious what it is that's doing that.
14:07<bremner>sounds more likely related to terminal
14:07<Lantizia>Same terminal I always use
14:08<Lantizia>If I do the same when SSH'd into a Debian 10 VM (from the same terminal) then I can see it pastes the commands immediately and frankly tries to execute each line as they're pasted
14:08<Lantizia>So it must be something with the openssh-server that comes with Debian 11 ?
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14:08<bremner>I am skeptical that the server has any influence on that.
14:08<Lantizia>as am I :)
14:09<Lantizia>but still - it's behaving just as I've described.
14:09<bremner>what terminal?
14:09<Lantizia>MATE Terminal on a desktop running Ubuntu MATE 18.04
14:10<bremner>oh. I see, so the debian isn't local. weird.
14:10<Lantizia>"the debian isn't local" ?
14:10<bremner>maybe shell?
14:10<bremner>you are ssh into debian, not from it
14:10<Lantizia>ah yes sorry
14:11<bremner>what shell?
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14:11<Lantizia>once SSH'd in?
14:11<bremner>yes
14:11<Lantizia>the default - which I presume is still bash?
14:12<bremner>echo $SHELL
14:12<Lantizia>yeah it's bash :)
14:12<bremner>bracketed paste became default in bash in 5.1 (I think)
14:12<Lantizia>'bracketed paste' ooh
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14:14<Lantizia>so if that's something new, which is now switched 'on'... I wonder what exactly it was trying to solve?
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14:14<bremner>the accidental pasting of bad things
14:14<bremner>or even just very large pastes
14:15<Lantizia>ah so the key feature is the pause then
14:15<Lantizia>doesn't protect against me dragging text into the terminal however - which I often do instead of pasting
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14:32<hendursaga>I forgot Bullseye has podman in its repository! Pleasant surprise
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14:35<urk>PDF files are not showing up in a folder after being saved with the LXDE desktop. I am wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a fix? I am wondering if the following URL has any relevancy as it relates to my problem, but the programs mentioned in the following forum appear to be excutables, and my issue is with a pdf not showing up https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/66555/why-are-my-application-desktop-files-not-showing-up-in-linux-application-me
14:35<urk>nu
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14:37<sney>!crosspost
14:37<dpkg>Posting the same question in several places at the same time (IRC channels, news groups, mailing lists, forums) is impolite; your time is NOT more valuable than everyone else's. Your question might be answered elsewhere, meanwhile we are wasting our time doing research for a problem you've already solved. Cross-posting can also make you look like a spammer and get you k:lined. See also <multiple ask> <hurry>.
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14:44<urk>sney: The question was not answered in the other #debian channel nor on #lxde, but postings online suggest there is a problem with LXDE not showing files after downloading.
14:45<urk>LXDE doesn't appear to be as reliable as XFCE, and I am looking to get rid of it. I might try another interface since I had problems with the latest update to XFCE. I don't know, maybe KDE.
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15:32<mooff>Firefox has gone defunct, and i don't want to reboot right now. do i have any options to kill it??
15:32<DoctorD90>debian doesnt provide a keyring.server for all? not only dev and mantainers? :)
15:32<bremner>correct
15:33<DoctorD90>thanks bremner
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15:37<sarnold>mooff: if you mean literally the text 'defunct', then it's probably already dead and its parent just doesn't know how to reap dead children. you can kill the parent, that will "reparent" the firefox process to init, which will reap them, but depending upon what firefox's parent process is, that might be worse than just leaving it alone
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15:39<mooff>sarnold: https://mooff.awful.cooking/fc926fa6759df53d/image.png
15:39<mooff>its parent is my window manager, and it still has window entries that are in a frozen state :/
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15:40<mooff>(switching to them in i3 shows VRAM garbage)
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15:40<sarnold>mooff: oh wow, that's impressive. I'd kill 4876 and see if that unwedges the rest
15:40<sarnold>er
15:40<sarnold>4786
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15:43<mooff>sigkill no effect on 4786
15:43<mooff>`pgrep firefox` returns 4293 209450
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15:47<sarnold>mooff: heh, dang. the next one I'd kill is 160985 -- and if that doesn't tear them all down, I'd just keep going down the list killing them in any old order
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15:49*mooff kill -9 160985 180757 200285 200639 201728 201992 202825 204573 209450
15:49<mooff>nada :)
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15:50<mooff>i can reboot in 30m, so i'll just do that
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15:50<mooff>would it help to run firefox with "sh firefox" for next time?
15:52<sarnold>heh, I was wondering that myself.. was the parent process waiting for those other threads to die too? how could it / would it know about them?
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16:03<apkef>hi all, I have upgraded to Bullseye and trying to switch to ipp-usb. I have an HP deskjet 3835. I have deleted the "old" printers/queues from CUPS and everything is working fine, except the fax.
16:03<apkef>cups is not show the fax, nowhere!!!
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16:12<Tj>does IPP support that? or more likely, does the printer advertise the fax service for IPP?
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16:15<apkef>it should! before ipp-usb, there was an ipp: uri in cups for the fax!
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16:18<Tj>apkef: maybe this will help https://github.com/OpenPrinting/ipp-usb/issues/27
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16:19<apkef>nope!
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16:24<apkef>avahi output, among other things is ".... adminurl=http://apollo.local:60000/#hId-pgAirPrint" "Fax=T" "rfo=ipp/faxout" "Scan=T""
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16:25<apkef>...so it might be a cups issue
16:27<apkef>also the connection uri of cups is "implicitclass:..." instead of "ipp:..." as it should (i think)
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17:29<apkef>...or a cups-browsed issue
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18:02<Etua>Hello, I have just upgraded my host OS to Debian Bullseye. All my services are spread across several LXC containers and although some like XMPP do not experience any obstructions in service my Thunderbird started complaining that a connection to my e-mail servers got rejected. I don't know why would that be since I have not upgraded any of the containers yet and all of them use the same routing method based on iptables. Could you point me to some steps useful
18:04<sarnold>Etua: irc has line length limits, and I'm wondering if you were cut off after "some steps useful"
18:06<sarnold>Etua: does 'ss' show the expected services listening on the expected ports? do they have any logs that might show connection attempts that are rejected for some reason? does thunderbird log anything to stdout or stderr that might be useful? does it have a specific error message or is it just not working with no reason given?
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18:08<Etua>sarnold: Yes, I got cut. In the mean time I found to my great surprise that the LXC container actually did not start this time despite having lxc.start.auto = 1. When I used lxc-start manually no errors were thrown and it seems that I can connect right now. Now I wonder what would cause this behaviour.
18:09<sarnold>Etua: eek!
18:09<Etua>I did not touch this configuration so why some of the containers boot with the host OS as it was before but not this one?
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18:11<Etua>I am going to reboot another time and check whether it will repeat.
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18:16<Etua>I don't understand. It seems that all of the LXC containers started with an exception of this one. https://paste.debian.net/1210818/ is that config nonstandard in any way? I didn't have this problem while using Debian 10.
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18:19<sney>is the letsencrypt volume on another container? maybe it's not coming up fast enough and this one is failing because the directory isn't found.
18:19<sney>or some other race condition
18:20<Etua>sney: Without having a proof in the logs I can't confirm nor deny it but I can assure you that configuration did work for the last 2 years or so.
18:20<sney>right, but now you have a new kernel and new libraries that probably have performance changes
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18:25<Etua>That's right. I'll try to find the relevant log messages.
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18:26<superkuh>Hi. I installed bullseye before release. I haven't updated since release. I ran apt update and now I get, "E: Repository 'http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'stable' to 'oldstable' ... Do you want to accept these changes and continue updating from this repository? [y/N]". Should I just accept yes, or is there a procedure for this situation and alternate commands?
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18:27<sney>you shouldn't have buster/updates in a bullseye system
18:27<sney>change buster/updates to bullseye-security and apt update
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18:28<superkuh>I couldn't install bullseye at all. The installer fails due to kernel 5.6.0 and on not supporting bootlists at arbitrary locations on MBR boot on GPT. So I installed buster. Then I upgraded to bullseye before release to see if I could install that way. It worked but fails to boot unless I use pre-5.6.0 kernels.
18:28<superkuh>That's how the buster stuff got in.
18:29<vlt>Hello. On current Debian 11 with linux 5.10.0-8-amd64, as a workaround, I have to delete the file /lib/firmware/iwlwifi-ty-a0-gf-a0.pnvm (shipped with firmware-iwlwifi) to make my wifi device (Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX210) work. How do I make this (until fixed upstream) a permament change in a Debian live-build environment?
18:29<sney>superkuh: ok, well now you know what to fix
18:29<superkuh>Yes. Thank you.
18:30<sarnold>vlt: I think dpkg-divert(1) is the tool you want
18:33<Etua>sney: Do you know where should I search for the possible error message? I grepped /var/log/messages and nothing interesting came up, the same with dmesg. I admit I don't really know which ones should apply there, probably something tracked by systemd.
18:34<sney>systemd puts its logs in the journal, which you can look at with journalctl
18:34<crawler>and in some cases syslog too
18:34<sney>usually the important stuff overlaps with dmesg, but I'm not sure what the usual behavior is for lxc
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18:37<Etua>Nothing interesting to me in systemctl. "profile_load" and "profile_remove" + the entries after I manually used lxc-start
18:38<Etua>Profiles refer to AppArmor
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18:39<vlt>sarnold: Thanks, I’ll have a look at it.
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18:46<Etua>I set up a 10 second delay for the start of the container. Maybe that will help.
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18:50<Etua>It seems to have worked. Thank tou sney for this suggestion. Tomorrow I will tinker with it to check if it could be done smarter.
18:50<sney>yes, usually there are smarter solutions than timers, but it's a fine band-aid.
18:51<Etua>Docs describe priorities that can dictate an order of start. They could work,
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19:16<segamain>In the End I just Installed ventoy on my android and copied the iso to the usb then I booted and it somehow worked. But howw ?
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19:18<segamain>skrrrt and me we're the same person btw
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19:41*Sqrt{not} made a brief factoid for "ventoy"
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19:42<sney>neat tool
19:43<hays>what is this file? /etc/resolv.dnsmasq.conf
19:43<hays>is this a debian thing?
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19:44<p>everything is a debian thing :)
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19:45<sney>sounds like a file that would be symlinked to /etc/resolv.conf if you have dnsmasq handling dns
19:45<hays>yeah it does.. except its linking somewhere else
19:47<hays>I have this message as a hint: "The file /etc/resolv.conf should be a symlink to /etc/resolvconf/run/resolv.conf itself pointing to 127.0.0.1 (dnsmasq). If you want to manually configure DNS resolvers, please edit /etc/resolv.dnsmasq.conf"
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19:47<sney>ah, that sounds pretty straightforward.
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19:48<hays>but then.. that file. resolve.dnsmasq.conf... is full of nameservers. like it has 20 nameservers in it already
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19:48<sney>the ones that dnsmasq ships with, or got from dhcp or some other autofoo maybe
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19:49<hays>it seems weird to have 20 nameservers configured
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19:50<sney>that is excessive yeah, usually 2-4 is more than enough
19:50<sney>if the first couple fail, you're probably just offline
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19:51<hays>alright. thanks. ill make a backup of that file and try something sensible
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20:32<AndroUser>I cant startx from the command line. Any thought on how to fix this?
20:33<sarnold>do you get error messages at the console? or in the xorg logs?
20:33<AndroUser>Im in Debian Buster 10.9
20:33<AndroUser>Yes
20:33<oliviah>have you setup an .xinitrc?
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20:35<somiaj>AndroUser: are you urk and cross posting?
20:35<AndroUser>Oliviah: what do you mean?
20:35<somiaj>please don't cross post, and what is the 'error' what do you mean by cant
20:35<AndroUser>Somiaj: yes Im on my phone.
20:35<somiaj>still don't cross post, please stick to one network
20:36<oliviah>AndroUser: are you trying to launch a window manager?
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20:37<somiaj>let's take a step back, what do you mean by can't? what is the actual error message you get
20:41<AndroUser>Waiting for xserver to shut down (II) Sever terminated successfully (0). Closing log file.
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20:42<AndroUser>Oliviah: yes, I have slum installed
20:42<AndroUser>Slim
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20:43<sussudio>slurm?
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20:44<jmcnaught>slim is a display manager. I do not use it, but it would not be started with startx, but by its systemd .service unit
20:44<AndroUser>No.. Slim display manager
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20:44<AndroUser>Yes
20:44<somiaj>AndroUser: it sounds like you are missing $HOME/.xsession, if you don't have a file create it, and add a single line 'exec startxfce4' -- then try to startx
20:45<oliviah>you should be fine if you type "systemctl enable slim" into a terminal then
20:45<AndroUser>somiaj: how do I know id I have it?
20:46<somiaj>it is a file, just look if it is there, ls $HOME/.xsession
20:46<somiaj>or just open it with your favoirate text editor, nano $HOME/.xsession
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20:53<AndroUser>How do I get out of nano? $HOME/.xsession appears to be missing.
20:53<somiaj>so add that single line, then look at the bottom, it tells you what to type to exit, hit that command and save your changes
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20:54<somiaj>once you do that startx should run something, in this case xfce
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20:57<AndroUser>I added the line $HOME/.xsession to a file started with nano called $HOME/.xsession, and it still wont startx
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20:58<somiaj>you should provide more info, 'wont startx' doesn't help us
20:58<somiaj>is the error the same?
20:58<sney>added the wrong thing to xsession
20:58<somiaj>ahh was I got from xfce formus incorrect for debian...my bad
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20:59<sney>no, urk just didn't read what you said to do
20:59<sney>and did something else that doesn't make any sense. as usual
20:59<jmcnaught>No AndroUser added "$HOME/.xsession" to the file of that name, not "exec startxfce4"
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21:01<AndroUser>I ran startxfce4, and now the error says server is already active for display 0. If this server is no longer running, remove /tmp/.XO-lock, and start again.
21:01<somiaj>is your xserver running on tty1 this whole time
21:02<somiaj>you can also try, 'startx -- :1' to force a second display just to test things out.
21:02<somiaj>well maybe not tty1, could be another tty depending on display manager
21:06<AndroUser>So i should add $HOME/.xsession to a file called startxfce4?
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21:09<somiaj>No
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21:10<AndroUser>startx - :1 would not start the gui, and I received an error indicating bad command -. I then tried the command without the -, and got the same original error.
21:10<AndroUser>Om
21:10<AndroUser>Ok
21:10<somiaj>You need to read better
21:11<AndroUser>Should I delete the file $HOME/.xsession?
21:11<sarnold>rofl
21:11<somiaj>AndroUser: it sounds like you are missing $HOME/.xsession, if you don't have a file create it, and add a single line 'exec startxfce4' -- then try to startx
21:11<somiaj>What about that is confusing?
21:12<AndroUser>Ok
21:12<somiaj>That is exactlly what I told you at the start of this
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21:16<oliviah>why are we trying to run startx to begin with? what's AndroUser 's expected result?
21:16<AndroUser>Where would I normally find $HOME/.xsession?
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21:17<somiaj>I don't question that, their actual question was 'I can't run startx', and that is what I'm trying to fix
21:17<somiaj>AndroUser: you create it
21:17<somiaj>configuration files are sometimes not created by default and up to the user to configure it, if you choose to configure you own xession, you create this file
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21:17<somiaj>(display managers use other session files)
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21:17<oliviah>but AndroUser also said they're trying to use the slim display manager. so they shouldn't be using startx.
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21:18<AndroUser>Oliviah: Gui wont start since uninstalling LXDE, and reinstalling Si
21:18<somiaj>They have somehow broke xfce, though unsure what is the best way to fix it in their case.
21:18<sarnold>oliviah: AndroUser can't stick with any single configuration long enough to debug anything. if AndroUser isn't a troll, then AndroUser should definitely consider just buying a chromebook or android tablet or something similar.
21:18<AndroUser>XFCE
21:18<somiaj>so is your issue, my display manager won't start, lets fix it.
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21:19<somiaj>if so you shouldn't come in and say 'startx wont work' because here we assume you are wanting to make startx work
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21:20<AndroUser>Display manager starts, but minimize tools are absent from prograns in XFCE.
21:20<oliviah>sarnold: lol. "can't stick with any single configuration long" same though, to be honest.
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21:20<somiaj>I would create a new user and not work with your broken configuration files anymore
21:20<sarnold>oliviah :D
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21:22<AndroUser>I can reinstall. A new user will not have the same privileges. However I should grab some data before reinstalling.
21:23<somiaj>a reinstall shouldn't be needed unless you have manually messed with system files, but your issues sound just like user configuration issues, so a new user can help test/work with that
21:25<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, tell us what "A new user will not have the same privileges" means? does your current user have some unusual privileges?
21:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 1005] by debhelper
21:28<AndroUser>Adminustrative rights
21:28<oliviah>you can make a new user with sudo privileges
21:29<AndroUser>A new user will not have administrative rights
21:29<oliviah>well ok
21:30<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, is that different from sudo?
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21:36<Sqrt{not}>AndroUser, oliviah is correct: you can give any new user sudo rights. Are you talking about something else besides sudo?
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21:46<AndroUser>Sqrt {not}: Should I use cp -uir to do an incremental backup that only updates files and folders already on my usb? I only have 16gb of space left on my usb so an incremental backup is something I should evaluate.
21:49<AndroUser>Oliviah: Can I delete the corrupted user with the new user? I thought I couldnt do that.
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21:50<somiaj>you could move out all the configuration files, maybe just make a fresh $HOME if you want, a new user is a way you can test things
21:50<somiaj>note if a new user works just fine, this means you have user confiuration issues, so you can just remove all the offending files in $HOME and start over
21:50<somiaj>or create a new user, there is really a lot of varitey, the reason I suggested a new user is it is easy, 'adduser username' and you can test things out
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21:53<oliviah>"adduser username -G sudo" if you need the new user to be an admin
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21:56<oliviah>AndroUser: If the new user has sudo privileges you should be able to delete the "corrupted" user and files with "sudo deluser username && rm -rf /home/username/"
21:56<somiaj>or just keep the user around as backup while you reconfigure things
21:57<oliviah>^^ yeah, don't delete anything before you're done
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22:00<AndroUser>I dont find -G as an option in the man page. Where did you get this command?
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22:01<somiaj>here the -G isn't needed, just adduser username sudo works
22:01<somiaj>they might be confusing usermod
22:02<sney>yeah, with usermod it would be -aG
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22:02<sney>adduser is simpler, so better in this case.
22:02<oliviah>my bad, i just checked the debian wiki quick.
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22:03<somiaj>though might be getting ahead of yourself, just create a new user, test it out, if the new user is working, you can start configuring it including giving it sudo perms
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22:32<Urk>I am now in a chat session on the desktop. Need to access the files of the other user.
22:33<somiaj>they should be readable in /home/oldusername by default
22:34<sney>here's a link on linux filesystem tools that I know I've given you before, https://tldp.org/LDP/GNU-Linux-Tools-Summary/html/GNU-Linux-Tools-Summary.html
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22:34<Urk>ok. I am going to copy everything over to the new profile, and explore deleting the old profile.
22:34<somiaj>don't copy everything
22:34<somiaj>that will copy over your broken configuration files
22:36<somiaj>but if the new user is working fine, you could just delete old config files and regenerate them, the new user is just a good test, also makes it easier than hunting down all the various configuration files
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22:46<Urk>Does anyone see something wrong with this command cp -R /home/pdq/*.* /home/pd
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22:47<somiaj>Yes
22:47<somiaj>I just told you not to copy over everything, that will copy over all your broken configuration files and you'll be right back to where you started
22:49<sussudio>also, why would you use *.*, this isn't dos/windows
22:50<Urk>sussudio: I would like to copy everythnin in /Documents /Desktop /Pictures /Downloads
22:51<Urk>I don't need the rest of the profile which is messed up.
22:51<Urk>ls
22:51<sussudio>...
22:51<somiaj>just a * would work (as that won't grab hidden files by default), you could also just copy each of those directories over as well to have more control
22:52<somiaj>sussudio: I didn't even recongize the windows part...was thinking they were trying to grab all hidden files too
22:52<Urk>Right now Linux thinks there is no Documents folder in the new profile.
22:52<somiaj>Urk: okay, so copy it over, that is fine
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22:53<Urk>Isn't there a Documents folder by default in the new profile?
22:53<somiaj>No
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22:53<somiaj>I personally get annoyed when desktop apps fill $HOME with directories that start with captial letters, I delete them to often and they just come back
22:53<somiaj>This is a desktop thing, some apps will create them if they aren't there and they want them
22:53<sussudio>somiaj: i believe ubuntu does this
22:54<sussudio>for... reasons.
22:54<somiaj>lots of desktop apps create them too, to me they just make $HOME ugly (I also use 'docs' not 'Documents', really dont' like captial letters in my file names)
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22:56<Sqrt{not}>urk, before you get carried away with your copying, a question: does this new user work better? did the problems your old user was seeing go away? Do you notice any difference at all?
22:57<Urk>Sqrt{not}: All of the problems went away, including the problems with the programs not minimizing, and not responding to mouse commands for dragging.
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22:58<Urk>xfce is working correctly again.
22:58<somiaj>Urk: I assumed, buster didn't change much between when it worked and when it didn't, it had to be user configuration issues
22:59<Urk>However, I was a bit surprised that Documents, Pictures, were not created by default in the new profile.
22:59<somiaj>I think if you load your filemanager or other desktop apps they will be
22:59<Sqrt{not}>Urk, so that is good! be careful -- what somiaj is telling you about copying everything from the old user, is that some configuration files in the old user's directories are just wrong.
23:00<Urk>Sqrt{not}: I am only copying the Documents, Pictures, and Downloads.
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23:01<Sqrt{not}>Urk, the example thing you wrote above " cp -R /home/pdq/*.* /home/pd" looks like it is trying to copy EVERYTHING
23:02<oliviah>beware the hidden file
23:02<Sqrt{not}>(although it probably would not, because of the inappropriate windowsism in the command)
23:04<Sqrt{not}>Urk, so we are done now, trying to debug your problem? No more questions? No more problems? You can copy your Pictures,etc, and tell us "thanks" ?
23:04<Urk>Documents are copying now.
23:05<Urk>documents are done.
23:07<Urk>Currently I am in root, and not sure how it happened. It should be PD which is the new user.
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23:12<Urk>Am I still in root? http://paste.debian.net/1210833/
23:12<sney>you changed your user but not your environment
23:12<sney>press ctrl-d, and then press it again
23:13<Urk>Thanks
23:13<Urk>Nope, now it says http://paste.debian.net/1210833/
23:13<Urk>root@grand-conjunction:~#
23:14<sney>it's amazing that you keep blindly typing things, with no understanding, after all of this time
23:14<sney>ctrl-d is a shortcut to log out or exit the shell. keep pressing it until either a) you get a login prompt, or b) you get back to your pd user
23:15<Urk>Is this what I need: pd@grand-conjunction:~$
23:15<Sqrt{not}>Urk, kind of, but getting there by root doing "su pd" is NOT a very good way.
23:16<Urk>Sqrt{not}: What is a better way.
23:16<Urk>?
23:16<Sqrt{not}>Urk, do what sney told you with ctrl-d
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23:21<Urk>Well I get the part about using Ctl D to get to the user from root, but when I select home it shows my documents were copied to the root instead of pd. The new user PD is not even showing up. How do I change the root to PD?
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23:22<sney>you don't, you log back in as pd and copy the files to the correct place this time
23:22<Urk>ok.
23:22<sney>actually *look* at your screen, and *look* at the commands you are typing, and check things before hitting enter.
23:22<Urk>so I should logout completely.
23:22<sney>otherwise you will keep screwing up and doing dumb stuff.
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23:23*sney mumbles something about surviving in the wild
23:23<Sqrt{not}>s/otherwise//
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23:24<sney>gonna be back in 30 seconds having forgotten everything
23:24<sney>"hi I tried to upgrade xfce 10.9 and now I can't boot" like it's 3 hours ago already
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23:35<somiaj>sney: free support should have limits
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23:36<sney>somiaj: it does, it's called /ignore ;)
23:36<ach>!?
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23:37<somiaj>sney: though they change nicks quite often...
23:37<somiaj>and I probably shouldn't be ignoring users
23:38<sney>yeah, that's how I ended up back in it this time, I had only the username masked. pacino intensifies
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23:52<Okee>The last thing that would be useful would be to copy the browser profiles from the other user.
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23:54<sney>your preferred browser's website will have info on how to do this
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23:54<sney>but you can probably just copy the .mozilla or .chromium etc directory over. if you use something other than firefox or chrom* this is why I said "etc"
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23:57<BillyWoon>what is the problem with browser?
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 08 00:00:28 2021