| --- | Log | opened Thu Sep 09 00:00:30 2021 |
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| 00:04 | <somiaj> | fred27: then maybe the scripts aren't generating the info to unlock your device correctly...though I'm at a loss here |
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| 00:21 | <sbsb> | hello! what with vmware player for debian? |
| 00:21 | <sbsb> | i was trying it and it does not work=( |
| 00:22 | <sbsb> | any success on it? |
| 00:22 | <p> | in my experience vmware needs a reboot. but dont listen to me |
| 00:22 | <jm_> | you'll have to ask elsewhere for help with vmware player - it sure worked for me with buster when I tested it |
| 00:23 | <sbsb> | with buster it works but does not with bullseye |
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| 00:31 | <mooff> | worked for me on lenny |
| 00:31 | <mooff> | hehe |
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| 01:13 | <uos_zhangh> | mooff: I did not find how to disable it. |
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| 02:24 | <ikersare> | c |
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| 03:12 | <ty3r0x> | Hello, I am having trouble synchronizing my debian box's time with ntp. I tried reloading the service countless times, I did hwclock --systohc, still doesn't work. What did I miss? |
| 03:12 | <jm_> | try using systemd-timesyncd |
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| 03:16 | <jm_> | with traditional ntp you can check status using 'ntpq -c peers; |
| 03:16 | <jm_> | ; should be ' |
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| 03:18 | <ty3r0x> | https://bin.snopyta.org/?e5a45bfe76f94050#J2CwDxzrFE58YtmFyXxBNKtbQwrYWfJWwcH1T8aqEQkS |
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| 03:21 | <twb> | jm_: timedatectl timesync-status; timedatectl show-timesync |
| 03:21 | <twb> | jm_: ^ new in buster, IIRC |
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| 03:22 | -!- | TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian-next #security #debian.or.at #debian |
| 03:22 | <jm_> | twb: yeah I know, that's for systemd-timesyncd |
| 03:23 | <twb> | ty3r0x: hwclock is obsolete; the kernel performs that job automatically every 6 minutes as long as a source of consensus time is within stratum (i.e. "System clock synchronized: yes") |
| 03:23 | <jm_> | that ntpq output looks OK to me |
| 03:23 | <twb> | ty3r0x: the only reason to run it by hand is if your system is crashing within 6 minutes of boot |
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| 03:24 | <ty3r0x> | Failed to query server: The name org.freedesktop.timesync1 was not provided by any .service files |
| 03:24 | <twb> | ty3r0x: because you installe "ntp", the built-in SNTP client was disabled |
| 03:25 | <twb> | You should not run "ntp"; you should either run systemd-timesyncd (the default) or ntpsec |
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| 03:26 | <jm_> | I woulkd recommend to switch over to systemd-timesyncd and see its status as indicated by tbw |
| 03:26 | <twb> | The main reasons to *not* use systemd-timesyncd are 1) you're calibrating scientific apparatus; or 2) you're serving NTP downstream |
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| 03:27 | <twb> | Both are rare |
| 03:27 | <twb> | (Or (3) you're super paranoid, and trust Cloudflare and/or the Norwegian government more than your own ISP) |
| 03:28 | <twb> | Oops, the Dutch government. |
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| 03:31 | <bentham> | Why is systemd-timesyncd not the default? |
| 03:31 | <ty3r0x> | alright, will figure out later |
| 03:31 | <twb> | bentham: it IS the default |
| 03:31 | <bentham> | I believe that 'sntp' is the default. |
| 03:32 | <twb> | bentham: systemd-timesyncd is an SNTP client |
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| 03:32 | <bentham> | What I mean is that there is a package called 'sntp' that Debian seems to include with new installations. |
| 03:32 | <twb> | The package "sntp" is, AFAICT, only installed by hand or by ntp Recommends sntp. It is part of the legacy ntp source package. |
| 03:33 | <bentham> | OK, maybe things have changed over the years. |
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| 03:33 | <bentham> | I've been using the NTP package (and 'ntpd') for twenty years and have never had a problem. Why should I switch to something different? |
| 03:34 | <bentham> | (the 'ntp' package) |
| 03:34 | <bentham> | I don't calibrate scientific apparatus. I do use Kerberos... |
| 03:35 | <jm_> | you can continue using ntp if you wish |
| 03:35 | <twb> | bentham: https://www.oreilly.com/content/the-internet-is-going-to-fall-down-if-i-dont-fix-this-susan-sons/ |
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| 03:36 | <twb> | bentham: SNTP (the protocol) will give 1s accuracy. krb typically needs 300s accuracy. So you're fine with an SNTP client like timesyncd. |
| 03:37 | <bentham> | It reaches out to *.debian.pool.ntp.org from time to time. I believe that it these are hosted in the US by US carriers (DigitalOcean, XMission, Verizon) |
| 03:38 | <bentham> | I don't think that Cloudflare or the Netherlands are involved. |
| 03:38 | <twb> | bentham: cloudflare is an *NTS* provider |
| 03:38 | <twb> | plain NTP has no security layer. NTS fixes this. But there aren't many public NTS providers yet. |
| 03:39 | <bentham> | OK |
| 03:39 | <twb> | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8915/ |
| 03:40 | <twb> | Surprisingly hairy because you can't just go "screw it, let's use TCP" like DNS did |
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| 03:43 | <bentham> | In my experience, the default settings that come with the sntp package did not result in my system having the correct time. |
| 03:43 | <bentham> | Whereas the default settings that come with the ntp package do. |
| 03:44 | <bentham> | Is there a recommended fix for this? |
| 03:46 | <twb> | bentham: yes: run timesyncd |
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| 03:48 | <bentham> | twb: I see; thanks. Why is either 'ntp' or 'systemd-timesyncd' not included by default, when clearly 'sntp' with its configuration is not sufficient? |
| 03:48 | <twb> | bentham: systemd-timesyncd is included by default. It is enabled by default. By installing sntp, you have disabled systemd-timesyncd. |
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| 03:49 | <bentham> | twb: Hm, OK. I don't think I ever managed to have systemd-timesyncd before. I wonder if this is the result of upgrading? |
| 03:49 | <twb> | That's possible |
| 03:49 | <twb> | Around Debian 9 the defaults changed |
| 03:50 | <bentham> | Well, I take all of this to mean that systemd-timesyncd, and not sntp, is Debian's strategic response to the public interest in having security for NTP via RFC 8915. |
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| 03:51 | <twb> | No it's just providing "I want the clock to be roughly correct". systemd-timesyncd doesn't implement RFC 8915. If you want that, install ntpsec and configure it. |
| 03:51 | <bentham> | twb: Ah, I see. |
| 03:51 | <twb> | (Most people don't care about security in general, let alone secure consensus time) |
| 03:51 | <twb> | https://docs.ntpsec.org/latest/NTS-QuickStart.html |
| 03:51 | <twb> | I don't *think* ISC ntp supports NTS, but I could be wrong. |
| 03:52 | <twb> | chrony is another option. I don't know much about it. |
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| 03:53 | <twb> | Ah as at Debian 11, because systemd-timesyncd is split out, it's now handled by Conflicts: time-daemon |
| 03:53 | <bentham> | I'll look into this. I'm not sure I like every airport lounge, train, and coffee shop to fingerprint me as a Debian user ;) |
| 03:53 | <bentham> | (i.e. by reaching out to debian.pool.ntp.org) |
| 03:54 | <twb> | Previously it had messy ConditionStartExecutable=!/sbin/ntpd crap for each OTHER client |
| 03:54 | <twb> | bentham: change your pool then |
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| 03:54 | <twb> | bentham: the reason for OS-versioned pools is so when the pool operator sees a large block of batshit-insane traffic, they know who to yell at |
| 03:55 | <bentham> | twb: sure, but which one would I choose? I'd be fingerprinted either way. But I guess that is a longer conversation, and probably off-topic. |
| 03:55 | <twb> | bentham: just set it to the base pool |
| 03:56 | <twb> | printf >> /etc/systemd/timesyncd.conf '[Time]\nNTP=0.pool.ntp.org 1.pool.ntp.org 2.pool.ntp.org 3.pool.ntp.org' |
| 03:56 | <bentham> | That sounds like a good idea, but only if enough people use that pool. It vaguely bothers me that the anonymity set is deliberately fragmented. |
| 03:56 | <bentham> | How accurate is timesyncd compared to insecure ntpd? |
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| 03:58 | <twb> | 1s vs a few dozen ms, I guess |
| 03:59 | <bentham> | I do want better than 1s. Can I assume that ntpsec will give me that? |
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| 04:00 | <twb> | Yes. |
| 04:01 | <twb> | ntpsec is a fork of ISC ntp |
| 04:01 | <twb> | like openssl -> libressl |
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| 04:01 | <bentham> | twb: thanks, that is useful to know. |
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| 04:02 | <sancog> | 你好 |
| 04:02 | <Unit193> | twb: But still libressl isn't in Debian! |
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| 04:03 | <twb> | Unit193: boringssl, wolfssl, mbedtls are. |
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| 04:03 | <Unit193> | Huh, missed boringssl was. |
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| 04:04 | <twb> | Unit193: my point was libressl was people looking at the codebsae going "zomg this code is so vintage. It has BIG-ENDIAN x86 support. It has no CI/CD. It doesn't 2FTBFS Let's throw away the 80% that's total garbage, and clean up what's left" |
| 04:04 | <twb> | Unit193: and ntp -> ntpsec is basically the same |
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| 04:05 | <twb> | IIRC ntp wasn't even under version control, or maybe just CVS, because there was only like 2 contributors and they worked in the same room |
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| 04:07 | <bentham> | Gosh, I've been using something dodgy for decades. |
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| 04:08 | <twb> | bentham: pretty much how people reacted to openssl, too :-) |
| 04:08 | <twb> | For a good discussion of what happens when NTP breaks, see _Glasshouse_ by Charles Stross |
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| 04:09 | <bentham> | twb: I am a fan of Stross, thanks :) |
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| 04:10 | <bentham> | Anyway, I knew it was insecure, but did not know about the code rot. |
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| 04:28 | <Yoda-BZH> | hello |
| 04:29 | <Yoda-BZH> | apparently archive.debian.org has a wrong ssl/https certificate. It's only valid for www.debian.org, is that intended ? |
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| 04:36 | <alsharbji> | dfhui |
| 04:37 | <selckin> | Yoda-BZH: looks like its just not served over https |
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| 04:46 | <alsharbji> | uhpuzp |
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| 05:26 | <stefano_g> | hi |
| 05:26 | <stefano_g> | Sep 9 09:00:58 km31237 freshclam[986]: Thu Sep 9 09:00:58 2021 -> ^Your ClamAV installation is OUTDATED! Sep 9 09:00:58 km31237 freshclam[986]: Thu Sep 9 09:00:58 2021 -> ^Local version: 0.103.2 Recommended version: 0.103.3 |
| 05:26 | <stefano_g> | is an update of the clamav package planned? |
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| 06:47 | <nickme> | Hi. I'm looking for a cheap all-in-one printer that runs under debian 11 (printing black & white and color and scanning min. 2400dpi). Drivers should be in the deb repos. |
| 06:48 | <nickme> | oh and it should take cheap non-original ink |
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| 06:51 | <tarzeau> | better to go with toner instead of ink? |
| 06:52 | <nickme> | tarzeau, yes =) |
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| 07:36 | <ty3r0x> | Is the tor package borked? I can't get it working. About my last issue, I uninstalled ntp and got timesyncd running. |
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| 07:42 | <tjcarter> | ,v clamav |
| 07:42 | <judd> | Package: clamav on amd64 -- stretch: 0.102.3+dfsg-0~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 0.102.3+dfsg-0~deb9u1; stretch-updates: 0.102.3+dfsg-0~deb9u1; buster: 0.103.2+dfsg-0+deb10u1; buster-updates: 0.103.2+dfsg-0+deb10u1; bullseye: 0.103.2+dfsg-2; bookworm: 0.103.3+dfsg-1+b1; sid: 0.103.3+dfsg-1+b1 |
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| 08:08 | <nickme> | no all-in-1-printer suggesstions at all? |
| 08:10 | <enyc> | nickme: uerm |
| 08:10 | <enyc> | nickme: never liked them myself ;p |
| 08:10 | <enyc> | nickme: I tend to find freebie old-consumer-ink-printers with scanner, that work with libsane, not worth replacing the ink on.... |
| 08:11 | <enyc> | nickme: then get a mid-age HP-laserjet printer that works beautifully for printing without fuss =) |
| 08:16 | -!- | Raist [~Raist@0002c51e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 08:17 | <blast007> | nickme: maybe cross reference the info from these two pages? http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html https://www.openprinting.org/printers |
| 08:18 | <nickme> | blast007, ah yeah i did that the whole morning... =( |
| 08:18 | <jm_> | I have a brother printer that just works, but it's not cheap so I did not mention it |
| 08:18 | <nickme> | ok lets say it should cost more than 60 |
| 08:20 | <jm_> | it's far more expensive, > 400 EUR, but it has networking. scanner and prints in colour |
| 08:21 | <jm_> | that's why I though it does not apply |
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| 09:14 | -!- | HAL_6900 is "VOID" on #debian |
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| 09:14 | -!- | amcclure is "anton" on #debian |
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| 09:15 | -!- | orangepi is "realname" on #debian |
| 09:15 | <nickme> | jm_, oh yeah thats expensive |
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| 09:16 | -!- | LoRez is "Mike Mattice" on #moocows #oftc #bitlbee #python #perl #debian |
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| 09:49 | <HAL_6900> | So quiet. |
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| 09:50 | -!- | wargreen is "realname" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 09:54 | -!- | radnaj is now known as jandr |
| 09:58 | * | tjcarter bangs on pot lids for HAL_6900 |
| 10:00 | <RoyK> | ,v libapache2-mod-auth-kerb |
| 10:00 | <judd> | Package: libapache2-mod-auth-kerb on amd64 -- stretch: 5.4-2.3; buster: 5.4-2.4~deb10u1; sid: 5.4-2.5 |
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| 10:23 | <Sqrt{not}> | nickme, I got a close-out-sale Brother printer/scanner/copier/fax for 99USD. It "just works" with driverless printing in debian. Also works fine with windows and iThings. The ink cartridges do have a security chip, but it does accept brand-X and refills with the right chips. |
| 10:24 | -!- | hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 10:26 | <Sqrt{not}> | (It has a USB connector that I have never tried, because everything works fine via RJ45 connector) |
| 10:26 | -!- | sparky4 [~sparky4@wireless-b-1496.LaTech.edu] has joined #debian |
| 10:26 | -!- | sparky4 is "INSTALL WINDOWS MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" on #debian #debian-next #Daikatana |
| 10:27 | <Sqrt{not}> | (Oh, and also has wi-fi modes as client or base station, that I have also never activated) |
| 10:27 | <scorpion2185[m]> | how do I remove eric6 broser? |
| 10:27 | <scorpion2185[m]> | web browser |
| 10:28 | <Emrederseniz> | sudo apt-get purge eri6 ? |
| 10:30 | <scorpion2185[m]> | `E: Unable to locate package eric6` |
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| 10:30 | -!- | amcclure is "anton" on #debian |
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| 10:33 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I can open in software eric6 pyhton editor but it cannot find eric6 web browser. |
| 10:33 | <Tenkawa> | Emrederseniz: he's giving incomplete info... eric6 is: |
| 10:33 | <Tenkawa> | What is eric6? |
| 10:33 | <Tenkawa> | Eric is a full featured Python editor and IDE, written in Python |
| 10:33 | <Tenkawa> | Emrederseniz: its not an apt pkg |
| 10:33 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I have also a eric6 web browser how do I remove that? |
| 10:34 | <Tenkawa> | scorpion2185[m]: its part of the ide |
| 10:34 | <scorpion2185[m]> | what is the package name for apt? |
| 10:35 | <umlaeute> | "apt search eric6" |
| 10:35 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I tried that . no result |
| 10:36 | <Tenkawa> | scorpion2185[m]: do a dpkg -l | grep Eric |
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| 10:36 | -!- | resmo is "realname" on #debian |
| 10:36 | <Tenkawa> | do you get any results? |
| 10:36 | <Tenkawa> | case sensitivite |
| 10:36 | <nickme> | Sqrt{not}, which model? |
| 10:36 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I copied the command, no result at all |
| 10:37 | <Tenkawa> | not lower case |
| 10:37 | <Tenkawa> | I said upper |
| 10:37 | <Tenkawa> | explicitly |
| 10:37 | <Tenkawa> | "Eric" |
| 10:37 | <Tenkawa> | put in that command exactly as listed |
| 10:38 | <scorpion2185[m]> | yes I copied the command that you said |
| 10:38 | -!- | alex11 [~alex11@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-31-76-70-61-139.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian |
| 10:38 | -!- | alex11 is "your worst nightmare" on #bitlbee #debian-next #debian |
| 10:38 | <Tenkawa> | if it doesn't return anything you don't have any "debian" packages |
| 10:38 | <umlaeute> | how do you start eric6? |
| 10:39 | <Tenkawa> | you could still have python installed pkgs though |
| 10:39 | <umlaeute> | find out the actual command, then run "command -v eric6" (in case "eric6" is the actual command; adjust to your findings) |
| 10:39 | <Tenkawa> | umlaeute: yeah.. apt-file could be useful here too with that |
| 10:40 | <Tenkawa> | here it is |
| 10:40 | <Tenkawa> | eric: /usr/bin/eric6 |
| 10:40 | <Tenkawa> | eric |
| 10:40 | <Tenkawa> | just eric |
| 10:40 | -!- | liquidsnake [~liquidsna@00025245.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:40 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I installed the web browser when I was on buster, I start it with eric6 but what the commadn for the web browser? |
| 10:40 | <another> | ,v eric |
| 10:40 | <judd> | Package: eric on amd64 -- stretch: 17.01-1; buster: 19.02.1+ds1-1; bookworm: 21.1+ds1-1; bullseye: 21.1+ds1-1; sid: 21.1+ds1-1 |
| 10:40 | -!- | gtristan [~tristan@223.38.35.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 10:41 | <Tenkawa> | another: ^^^ |
| 10:41 | <Tenkawa> | already found it |
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| 10:41 | -!- | zleap is "realname" on #debcamp #debian-live #debian-social #tor #minidebconf-online #debian-academy #debian-next #debian |
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| 10:41 | <scorpion2185[m]> | how do I launch the web browser from CLI? |
| 10:41 | -!- | dbungert [~dbungert@0002b4f7.user.oftc.net] has left #debian [] |
| 10:41 | <Tenkawa> | /usr/bin/eric6 |
| 10:41 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I am reinstalling it |
| 10:42 | <Tenkawa> | or eric6 I would assume (installing to try it out00 |
| 10:42 | <Tenkawa> | heh qt based |
| 10:42 | <scorpion2185[m]> | eric6 launchs pyhton editor not the web brows. |
| 10:43 | <Tenkawa> | nice editor |
| 10:43 | <umlaeute> | then run "dpkg -S /usr/bin/eric6" to see which package installed it |
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| 10:43 | -!- | gelignite is "gelignite" on #debian #llvm #openttd |
| 10:43 | <umlaeute> | oops, i see that was already solved... |
| 10:44 | <Tenkawa> | umlaeute: thats why I really like apt-file |
| 10:44 | <scorpion2185[m]> | umlaeute eric installs that. |
| 10:44 | -!- | towo` [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian |
| 10:44 | -!- | towo` is "Torsten (towo) Wphlfarth" on #kanotix #debian-next #debian #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #siduction-admin |
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| 10:45 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I can use dpkg -L eric to find the web browser bin |
| 10:45 | -!- | towo` is "Torsten (towo) Wphlfarth" on #kanotix #debian-next #debian #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #siduction-admin |
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| 10:46 | <Sqrt{not}> | nickme, MFC-J5620DW |
| 10:46 | <scorpion2185[m]> | eric6_browser, thanks |
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| 10:47 | -!- | towo` is "Torsten (towo) Wphlfarth" on #kanotix #debian-next #debian #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #siduction-admin |
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| 10:48 | -!- | Xaldafax is "X" on #debian #tor |
| 10:48 | <scorpion2185[m]> | duckduckgo.com is blockedRequests to the server have been blocked by an extension. |
| 10:48 | -!- | towo` [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
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| 10:48 | -!- | towo` is "Torsten (towo) Wphlfarth" on #kanotix #debian-next #debian #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #siduction-admin |
| 10:48 | <scorpion2185[m]> | wtf does it have extension? |
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| 10:58 | -!- | flappy is "realname" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 10:59 | -!- | ArtGravity is "Grav" on #debian #wiztech-noc #sosdg |
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| 11:02 | -!- | hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #llvm #llvmlinux |
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| 11:14 | -!- | GenTooMan is "realname" on #debian #debian-games #debian-next #debian-rust |
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| 11:20 | -!- | richardm75 is "realname" on #debian |
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| 11:21 | -!- | Mr-Equilibrius is "Mr-Equilibrius" on #debian |
| 11:21 | <Mr-Equilibrius> | Buenas tardes |
| 11:23 | <Mr-Equilibrius> | Tengo problemas con el arranque de GRUB en la última versión de Debian en una unidad SSD NVME |
| 11:23 | -!- | Emrederseniz [~Emre@78.189.194.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] |
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| 11:23 | <Mr-Equilibrius> | Alguien puede ayudarme o le ha pasado algo parecido? |
| 11:24 | -!- | odin [~odin@79.104.198.84] has joined #debian |
| 11:24 | -!- | odin is "realname" on #debian |
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| 11:25 | <Sqrt{not}> | !es |
| 11:25 | <dpkg> | Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/ |
| 11:25 | -!- | odin [~odin@79.104.198.84] has joined #debian |
| 11:25 | -!- | odin is "realname" on #debian |
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| 11:26 | <Mr-Equilibrius> | Gracias por la información, me pasaré por el canal Debian en español. :) |
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| 12:56 | <Urk> | Just curious if anyone is running Bullseye on an XPS 15 7590? |
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| 13:12 | <wwilliam> | Hello is anyone expert on installing debian using pxe with dnsmask as dhcp server and tftp server I am getting ip but then it says no such file or dir |
| 13:12 | <koollman> | I wouldn't say I'm an expert. But most likely cause is that either you send the wrong file, or your tftp server setup is bad |
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| 13:13 | <koollman> | wrong filename, I mean |
| 13:13 | <wwilliam> | koollman: I am using dnsmasq for everything as my first pxe installation test. |
| 13:14 | <wwilliam> | This is dnsmasq file: |
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| 13:18 | <wwilliam> | https://paste.debian.net/1211134/ |
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| 13:24 | <wwilliam> | Anyone? |
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| 13:25 | <HAL_6900> | Where can I found news about a possible Stretch 9.14 release? |
| 13:26 | <sney> | wwilliam: what are the contents of /srv/tftp |
| 13:26 | <wwilliam> | hold on.... |
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| 13:27 | <tjcarter> | HAL_6900: there will not be a new release of oldoldstable |
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| 13:29 | <wwilliam> | sney: https://paste.debian.net/1211136/ |
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| 13:30 | <sney> | wwilliam: ok, so the server running dnsmasq is the same as the tftp server? then you do not need to specify an ip address on dhcp-boot, only the file path under tftp-root. so, dhcp-boot=pxelinux.0 |
| 13:30 | <wwilliam> | OK.... |
| 13:30 | <sney> | your current configuration is trying to redirect the client to another tftp server at 10.0.2.1 |
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| 13:31 | <sney> | also if 10.0.2.0/24 is your subnet, the ip address in dhcp-host is wrong too. 10.2.0.15 |
| 13:31 | <wwilliam> | oh sorry. |
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| 13:32 | <sney> | np, sometimes you just need more eyes looking at it |
| 13:33 | <wwilliam> | Ok will try now with those 2 fixes, Thank you sney for your time and knowledge. |
| 13:33 | <wwilliam> | ok this is journal -f: |
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| 13:34 | <wwilliam> | https://paste.debian.net/1211137/ |
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| 13:34 | <sney> | looks normla. |
| 13:34 | <sney> | normal, even. |
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| 13:35 | -!- | tjcarter1 is now known as tjcarter |
| 13:35 | <hellsworth> | hi folks quick question.. how do yall automatically identify with nickserv on irc.debian.org. seems sasl isn't supported.. |
| 13:35 | <sney> | certfp, the oftc.net site has instructions |
| 13:36 | <sney> | (irc.debian.org is an alias for irc.oftc.net) |
| 13:36 | <hellsworth> | awesome thanks sney ! |
| 13:36 | <sney> | np |
| 13:36 | <wwilliam> | sney: same thing net0; 10.0.2.12/255/255/255/0 gw 10.0.2.1 nothing to boot: no such file or directory no more network devices |
| 13:37 | <wwilliam> | Fatal Could not read from the boot medium! System halted. |
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| 13:38 | <wwilliam> | dnsmasq: |
| 13:38 | <wwilliam> | https://paste.debian.net/1211139/ |
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| 13:45 | <sney> | hm, the debian wiki says to include ' pxe-service=x86PC, "Install Linux", pxelinux ' in your dnsmasq config, but that doesn't look required. I wonder if dnsmasq's tftp server is having trouble with those symlinks, you could try putting the bootloader files directly in /srv/tftp instead of linking them |
| 13:46 | <sney> | also: try connecting to the server with a tftp client, and 'get pxelinux.0' and see if you get any more interesting clues. |
| 13:46 | <tjcarter> | HAL_6900: A security patch to a package isn't going to generate a new point release. It's just the 14th time they've had to release an update to the kernel in stretch |
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| 13:47 | <tjcarter> | if there were to be a point release, that'd be in it though |
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| 13:48 | <imMute> | tjcarter: release points aren't numbered based on kernel changes... |
| 13:49 | <tjcarter> | imMute: that's what I am saying |
| 13:49 | <sney> | wwilliam: or instead of moving the files, set dhcp-boot=debian-installer/amd64/pxelinux.0 |
| 13:49 | <tjcarter> | or was trying to when the server was on puked all over itself |
| 13:49 | <imMute> | tjcarter: you said "It's just the 14th time they've had to release an update to the kernel in stretch" and what I'm saying is that's not true... |
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| 13:51 | <tjcarter> | imMute: I said there would be no oldoldstable point release. HAL_6900 send me a link to a deb9u14 security release of the kernel |
| 13:52 | <tjcarter> | imMute: There would not be a deb9u14 if there had not been a deb9u13 first |
| 13:52 | <imMute> | tjcarter: oh, I missed that link. I thought you were talking about the point release numbers. never mind me. |
| 13:52 | <tjcarter> | But there won't be a point release because of that |
| 13:52 | <tjcarter> | that's because he didn't send it to channel |
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| 13:53 | <tjcarter> | he wanted news of "Debian 9.14" being released. Ain't happening. |
| 13:53 | <tjcarter> | At this point there won't even be another buster point release I expect. Security fixes sure, but … you get to install those yourself. |
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| 13:57 | <wwilliam> | sney: same nothing to boot using: dhcp-boot=debian-installer/amd64/pxelinux.0 |
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| 14:03 | <mer_> | greetings everybody |
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| 14:08 | <wwilliam> | sney: https://paste.debian.net/1211144/ |
| 14:10 | <wwilliam> | sney: |
| 14:10 | <wwilliam> | tftp> get /srv/tftp/debian-installer/amd64/pxelinux.0 |
| 14:10 | <wwilliam> | Received 42758 bytes in 0.0 seconds |
| 14:10 | <wwilliam> | tftp> |
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| 14:14 | <ZenWalker> | it is possible to know exactly when (date/hour) a package was updated? |
| 14:15 | <sney> | ZenWalker: sure, tracker.debian.org/packagename will show you the upload messages |
| 14:15 | <ZenWalker> | no, I mean here, in my system |
| 14:16 | <sney> | oh, apt/history.log or dpkg.log should |
| 14:16 | <ZenWalker> | ok thx |
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| 14:27 | <Urk> | Got two questions as they relate to XFCE Desktop. The first question relates to a Liberoffice document not showing up in a subfolder of my Documents folder, but it was showing yesterday. However, inside the Libreoffice program it shows a copy is in the sub-folder, but I would like to know why I can't see it? |
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| 14:28 | <Urk> | My 2nd question has to do with how to add a one-click mouse functionality to sub-folders in the documents folder. Currently I only have one click functionality on the Documents folder itself. In LXDE there was a way to do this, but I don't see a control inside XFCE. |
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| 14:36 | <n_> | I have an hp laserjet. I installed the hplip driver. But hp-probe prompts for only usb, or wifi/net. Meanwhile I have parallel port. I must have wrong driver |
| 14:39 | <sney> | if you have an old parallel laserjet you shouldn't need any of that, just set it up with cups and generic postscript |
| 14:39 | <sney> | (hell, cat foo.pdf > /dev/lp0 will probably print) |
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| 14:43 | <n_> | I ran hp-check. It said there are a packages missing, so I am installing htose |
| 14:44 | <sney> | thank you, rubber duck, great idea |
| 14:44 | <n_> | sney, really, ok |
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| 14:46 | <n_> | sney, says permission denied. Only pdf's not png's? |
| 14:47 | <sney> | anything talking directly to a device would need to be done as root |
| 14:47 | <malakim> | and yes, only pdf's not svg's |
| 14:47 | <sney> | pdf or postscript files are usually understood directly by the printer firmware. or text. not usually images, but depending on your model there may be *some* understanding of images |
| 14:48 | <sney> | that's just a silly test though, the real solution is to use the generic postscript driver |
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| 14:59 | <TobiX> | sney: "Driverless" printing has some stupid requirements, so a printer might not support PDF or PS at all: "A Mopria-certified device calls for PWG raster, PCLm or PDF to be available as a PDL. However, it is observed that all PCLm, PWG raster or PDF printers also support Apple raster." |
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| 14:59 | <n_> | It just printed 20 pages with just one line of jibberish |
| 15:00 | <sney> | TobiX: hm, it's generally been my experience that any hp laserjet that's dusty enough to have a parallel port will happily speak postscript. but I guess not this one, ^ |
| 15:00 | <n_> | I think I skipped clicking Printing when I Installed. Do I have to re-intall? |
| 15:00 | <n_> | I have CUPS and HPLIP |
| 15:00 | <sney> | no, the printer task is just cups |
| 15:01 | <TobiX> | sney: Oh, and some really old LaserJets (like my anchient LJ5) had models without PS support (only the LJ5m or a LJ5 with the PS module) |
| 15:01 | <n_> | I used to be able to printer from inkscape, gimp, libre |
| 15:01 | <sney> | what model is it? |
| 15:01 | <n_> | hp laserjet 4m |
| 15:01 | <n_> | plus |
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| 15:01 | <sney> | haha, that's a survivor. |
| 15:02 | <n_> | over 100k prints |
| 15:02 | <TobiX> | n_: That one should print postscript and HPGL IIRC |
| 15:02 | <n_> | I have a museum in the corner of my apt. And an IBM monitor, IBM not Lenova. |
| 15:02 | <TobiX> | And text, of course |
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| 15:03 | <sney> | yeah, you may just need to set a different model under cups if the generic one didn't go. |
| 15:03 | <n_> | I am on xfce4, and it does not show up. |
| 15:03 | <sney> | maybe there's an entry for that exact model, even |
| 15:03 | <sney> | right, parallel printers are explicitly not plug and play, you need to set it up yourself |
| 15:04 | <n_> | maybe my cable is bad |
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| 15:05 | <n_> | Its plugged in good. |
| 15:05 | <sney> | I just looked a the cups driver list for HP, and I see: "HP Laserjet 4/4M Postscript 600DPI (en)" |
| 15:05 | <n_> | gtklp -couldn't detect |
| 15:05 | <sney> | select that for your printer and try again |
| 15:05 | <sney> | and stop running random gui tools, *use cups* |
| 15:05 | <n_> | ok, I only installed hplip |
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| 15:06 | <sney> | from the way it's named in the list, this looks like a cups builtin |
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| 15:08 | <twb> | Please use the "driverless" configuration if you can |
| 15:08 | <twb> | It should work on any printer made after 2010 |
| 15:09 | <sney> | twb: a laserjet 4m would have been made in around 2001, I think |
| 15:09 | <sney> | they were certainly around when I was doing printer repair as a teenager in the early 00s |
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| 15:10 | <twb> | oh a *real* LJ4. Carry on |
| 15:11 | <twb> | re "might not support PDF or PS at all" -- pwg.org driverless requires *either* "JPG" or "JPG and PDF". The former is meant for the super-cheap models. |
| 15:12 | <twb> | PS is long long long gone. Even cups is PDF internally since about 2010 |
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| 15:12 | <twb> | (Which is good because otherwise you can't have e.g. alpha channel) |
| 15:13 | <TobiX> | sney: 1992 |
| 15:14 | <TobiX> | LJ4 was discontinued in the '90ies |
| 15:14 | <sney> | wow |
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| 15:14 | <sarnold> | :( that was a solid printer |
| 15:15 | <TobiX> | The print server in my LJ5 doesn't speak IPv6... Because it wasn't spec'd yet :D |
| 15:15 | <sney> | quality jetdirect |
| 15:15 | <sney> | probably 10/half too |
| 15:16 | <TobiX> | Yes, it's 10/half :D |
| 15:16 | <sney> | I don't use any of these anymore (moved too many times) but I used to know them inside and out. my first crumb of technical expertise |
| 15:16 | <TobiX> | Still connects fine to a Gigabit switch :P |
| 15:16 | <sney> | fuser works in the lj5 too, hp got a lot of mileage out of that 1 fuser |
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| 15:20 | <Klaus_Dieter> | Hello world |
| 15:21 | <sney> | hi |
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| 15:23 | <Klaus_Dieter> | I am considering getting a keyboard with only 62 keys for the reduced space but I am uncertain whether I can cope well with the lack of cursor keys. The cursor keys will be emulated by hitting a function key and the WASD keys. I wonder how I could emulate that behavior on an actual keyboard and have looked into xmodmap but quite frankly I am majorly confused and I am not even sure I am looking at the |
| 15:23 | <Klaus_Dieter> | manpage of the right tool for the job. As such I would be happy for some guidance on how to do esoteric key macros like Menu + W means "Cursor Up". Having this work just in xorg is completely fine. |
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| 15:24 | <sney> | if it's anything like how that is accomplished in laptop keyboards, it should just work via the keyboard firmware, without having to do anything in software |
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| 15:24 | <sney> | or are you saying this isn't something that the kb is designed to do? |
| 15:25 | <sarnold> | if I understand, Klaus_Dieter wants to try emulating it before spending money |
| 15:25 | <Klaus_Dieter> | yeah. I want to emulate first and see how it feels. And then spend. |
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| 15:27 | <sney> | hm, maybe there's a shortcut/writeup for a "vi mode" of sorts so you can hjkl |
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| 15:29 | <sarnold> | last time I went looking to do something similar I got lost and gave up :( xmodmap and setxkmap and so on aren't so bad for things like swapping caps and esc but I just couldn't figure out how to do what I wanted. (I can't remember now what exactly it was I wanted to try, but I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the exact same thing Klaus_Dieter is trying :) |
| 15:30 | <somiaj> | xmodmap only works with modifiers, not actual keybindings |
| 15:30 | <somiaj> | The process in my understanding is going to be quite difficult, you'll basically have to create a custom keymap so xorg thinks when you hit w, it means 'up'. No other option will really work well since most apps do not like fake x-event |
| 15:31 | <somiaj> | (otherwise you could just send fake events to the apps, when w is hit send the up event, but most apps will just ignore fake events due to security) |
| 15:31 | <cc> | in my experience, anything smaller than a standard keyboard with a numpad is a usability nightmare |
| 15:31 | <somiaj> | Using fn+keys works fairly well once you get use to holding down the fn key (though some machines have a fn-toggle like numlock toggle) |
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| 15:32 | <malakim> | cc some people live quite happy without numpad |
| 15:32 | <cc> | I don't want to even imagine that |
| 15:32 | <malakim> | lol |
| 15:33 | <sney> | I use the numpad, though I also whack the mouse into that side of my keyboard sometimes and it always makes me briefly consider a tenkelyess |
| 15:33 | <Klaus_Dieter> | cc: I would agree - and my company provided me with a macbook pro. The keyboard on this thing is so bad, apple could have manufactured the device without one. I refuse to use it. So I need to get a "mobile" keybord to do some typing. And a full size 105 key thing is too large for a travel case. |
| 15:33 | <somiaj> | I for instance don't know how people can use touch pads, I always have to disable mine and use a traditional mouse, but others like them and all their special features |
| 15:34 | <somiaj> | my problem is my thumb glances across it as I type, usually for bad things, like loosing focus, selecting text accidently, and so on |
| 15:34 | <sney> | palm strike |
| 15:34 | <Klaus_Dieter> | so it turns out I was looking at the wrong tool - and should be looking at setxkbmap instead of Xmodmap. |
| 15:34 | <cc> | somiaj: that particular annoying touchpad mechanic can be disabled |
| 15:34 | <Klaus_Dieter> | somiaj: I have found adjusting the sensitivity on my touchpad to be a big help with that symptom. I use synaptic to fine tune this.... |
| 15:34 | <cc> | it's called "tap to click" |
| 15:35 | <somiaj> | Klaus_Dieter: yes, that would work, you can configure a custom keymap that way, but it may take a bit to figure it out, and won't emulate the full fn experience. |
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| 15:35 | <Klaus_Dieter> | somiaj: of course not. but maybe enough to see if it works. I am mostly worried about the lack of cursor keys on 60% keyboards |
| 15:35 | <somiaj> | even then just moving the mouse accidently can loose apps focus, I just disable the thing, nothing but trouble (just pointing out that just because you don't like something doesn't mean others won't find it useful) |
| 15:36 | <Klaus_Dieter> | sure. thing :) |
| 15:36 | <somiaj> | Klaus_Dieter: my experince is fn+ wasd isn't too bad, mostly becaue it is all done at the hardware level and the operating system gets the correct key events. |
| 15:36 | <somiaj> | but I game a lot, so wasd is fairly natural to me |
| 15:37 | <somiaj> | now holding down fn vs a toggle maybe something to consider |
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| 15:42 | <Klaus_Dieter> | I do not game a lot but I do type a lot - especially into the console. And email. Usability on anything but linux feels awkward for me as I have customized my linux desktop 15 years back with a tiling wm and hardly any mouse usage and I have not changed it ever since. So that is still going to be an issue. I seem to always be looking for windows on my mac computer because the thing "helpfully" |
| 15:42 | <Klaus_Dieter> | rearranges them without a scheme that is recognizable by me |
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| 15:42 | <Klaus_Dieter> | anyways -thank you for this, I will look into setxkbmap a bit and report progress if you are interested somiaj (as you said you attempted this but failed) |
| 15:43 | <somiaj> | Klaus_Dieter: it was more I found it a lot of work to set up a custom keymap, and more decided that I didn't need to add my custom multimedia keys (this was before they were more standard) |
| 15:43 | <somiaj> | but it isn't to bad to maybe export a key map, change a few key codes, and change to the custom one |
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| 15:48 | <Klaus_Dieter> | it seems so. I was just able to switch "t" and "r" :) |
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| 15:49 | <somiaj> | yea, I forgot my project was more involved, I had to track down the keycodes the hardare sent from the kernel, vs just change things (: |
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| 15:51 | <noarb> | is there a way to view online the reverse dependencies of a package in the repo, not just what packages on an installed system depend on it? e.g. can I view what packages would install https://packages.debian.org/sid/texlive-latex-recommended ? |
| 15:52 | <somiaj> | noarb: you can use apt-rdepends |
| 15:52 | <somiaj> | ,i apt-rdepends |
| 15:52 | <judd> | Package apt-rdepends (utils, optional) in bullseye/amd64: recursively lists package dependencies. Version: 1.3.0-7; Size: 14.8k; Installed: 40k; Homepage: http://www.sfllaw.ca/programs/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/apt-rdepends; O: #871954 |
| 15:53 | <somiaj> | though if you are running sid, you should be asking for support in #debian-next |
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| 15:54 | <noarb> | does apt-rdepends only search through the apt cache, and not the archive? |
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| 15:54 | <paul> | hi |
| 15:54 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I can't use revolt it uses insane amount of CPU |
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| 15:54 | <scorpion2185[m]> | !hi |
| 15:54 | <dpkg> | hello, scorpion2185[m] |
| 15:54 | <noarb> | I'm not running sid, but if I could view the reverse dependencies online I'd like to do it on sid to see where things are going |
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| 15:55 | <somiaj> | I don't think there is such an online tool, you could easily make a minimium sid chroot with debootstrap, and use apt-rdepends there |
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| 15:57 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: https://github.com/aperezdc/revolt/issues/96 |
| 15:58 | <somiaj> | though that should be fixed in bullseye, maybe you have some other issue than just that one |
| 15:58 | <noarb> | I can rephrase my question: is there a way to view what packages in the archive depend upon another package? for example, can I view what packages have "Depends: python3" to find what packages in the debian archive run or require python3? If I use apt-rdepends, would that ~not analyze the archive and only my local cache? |
| 15:59 | <somiaj> | noarb: you can download a copy of the archive chache to be local, then use apt-rdepends |
| 15:59 | <somiaj> | I don't think there is any online tool that does what is better done locally with tools like apt-rdepends |
| 15:59 | <somiaj> | also that is a 'reverse depends' but apt-rdepends deals with those too |
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| 16:00 | <noarb> | alright, got it. thanks |
| 16:00 | <sarnold> | I don't think a full mirror is necessary, just the one binary-amd64 file |
| 16:00 | <somiaj> | and as I mentioned, if you don't want to temprary download the cahce to your running system, create a quick chroot, not too hard to do |
| 16:01 | <sarnold> | creating the chroot and so on is great since it makes repeating these steps easier |
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| 16:01 | <sarnold> | but if this is literally the one time you need it, you can grab the right file from the archive and read it |
| 16:02 | <scorpion2185[m]> | somiaj It started some time ago and also element from browser has the same problem. webkitprocess goes insane |
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| 16:03 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: what version of webkit are you running, and yea element and all of this javascript stuff is just bloated, seems you aren't alone in this, but don't see any relevant bug reports in Debian, and the upstream ones seem a bit dated compared to version in bullseye. |
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| 16:04 | <somiaj> | but I think you'll find reporting bugs and working with those who know the software better a more likely approach then asking here (seen you mention this a few times, and seems noone here seems that familar with this) |
| 16:04 | <noarb> | the installation instructions for latex on debian say to use the equivs package to mark these as installed: https://www.tug.org/texlive/files/debian-equivs-2021-ex.txt I was just wondering what packages I could install that would cause a duplicate latex installation. I'll try to set up the sid chroot |
| 16:05 | <somiaj> | noarb: you are trying to make a local install of texlive? |
| 16:06 | <somiaj> | for what is worht, the bullseye version is fairly recent, 2020.20210202 (so noly about a year old) |
| 16:06 | <noarb> | yes, like this: https://www.tug.org/texlive/debian.html#vanilla Everything works great, I was just wondering what packages I needed to "trick" into thinking the debian latex was installed |
| 16:06 | <scorpion2185[m]> | what's the name /command to check? |
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| 16:07 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: dpkg -l | grep webkit should work, though if you are running bullseye you should have 2.32.3 |
| 16:07 | <somiaj> | noarb: does the list provided by upstream not work? You want to double check it? or have you ran across an issue? |
| 16:08 | -!- | mode/#debian [+l 1019] by debhelper |
| 16:08 | <malakim> | can someone share its apt/sources.list with me |
| 16:08 | <somiaj> | malakim: what version of debian are you running? |
| 16:08 | <malakim> | someona running bullseye |
| 16:08 | <somiaj> | !bullseye sources.list |
| 16:08 | <dpkg> | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`. |
| 16:08 | <scorpion2185[m]> | there are 5, the first: gir1.2-webkit2-4.0:amd64 2.32.3-1 |
| 16:08 | <somiaj> | malakim: note add 'contrib non-free' if you also want access to those packages. |
| 16:08 | <scorpion2185[m]> | @malakin yes |
| 16:09 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: the bugs I found were suspally fixed in 3.28, so maybe you have a different bug. Also one test you can sometimes do is create a new user, see if you hvae the same user with a new user with default settings |
| 16:09 | <malakim> | thank you somiaj, i guess that covers it |
| 16:09 | <somiaj> | did you run into this? |
| 16:09 | * | scorpion2185[m] posted a file: (1KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/pPJTsNznJSIzfAgNmmaADRXO/sources.list > |
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| 16:09 | <somiaj> | !bullseye/updates |
| 16:09 | <dpkg> | There is no "bullseye/updates" repository for security updates. To reduce confusion with <bullseye-updates> (which is for other bug fixes), security updates are distributed via the <bullseye-security> repository "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main". Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt. |
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| 16:10 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: note in a case like this, provided the bots stock answer is most likely prefered (though their question should be, what is a standard sources.list for bullseye) |
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| 16:10 | <scorpion2185[m]> | marix user or Debian/pc user? |
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| 16:10 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: what is the difference, are you installing upstream packges from matrix/revolt? |
| 16:11 | <scorpion2185[m]> | no I have Debian package |
| 16:11 | <scorpion2185[m]> | I mean matrix user or the user that starts the GUI (GNOME etc.) |
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| 16:12 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: I would do a full system user, so everything is default, this will rule out user configuration vs some issue with the webkit in debian. If so you can file a bug, maybe they can help track it down (reporduce it) |
| 16:12 | <tjcarter> | well that's ONE network |
| 16:12 | <somiaj> | this is just to rule out user configuration vs system configuration |
| 16:13 | <malakim> | i get this error message when running apt: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/i915/rkl_dmc_ver2_02.bin for module i |
| 16:13 | <malakim> | 915 |
| 16:13 | <scorpion2185[m]> | so samw matrix user is finw? |
| 16:13 | <somiaj> | scorpion2185[m]: it should be, I doubt the user you log in with matters |
| 16:13 | <somiaj> | just making sure there isn't some user configuration floating around causing you issues basically |
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| 16:13 | <somiaj> | malakim: do you have firmware-misc-nonfree installed? |
| 16:14 | <malakim> | yes |
| 16:14 | <sney> | "possible missing firmware" because the driver supports that file and you are using the driver. |
| 16:14 | <sney> | if your system is working, ignore the message. |
| 16:15 | <sney> | that's why it only says "possible". |
| 16:15 | <scorpion2185[m]> | apt-file search <firmware> |
| 16:15 | <somiaj> | malakim: then you should be fine unless you notice actual issues beyond just a warning |
| 16:15 | <blast007> | doesn't look like that firmware file is packaged |
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| 16:15 | <somiaj> | there are often multiple firmware files that can be used for some hardware, and so things may not always correct report what firmware you need, if you have the package installed and things work as epxected, there is no issue |
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| 16:16 | <somiaj> | the kernel is a bit verbose on this and will try to load various firmware files until it finds one |
| 16:16 | <somiaj> | and I think apt is just getting this info from the kernel about failed to load firmware (Which isn't uncommon even though another firmware file is loaded and functions just fine) |
| 16:17 | <sney> | plus, i915 supports a wide range of video devices, but only some of them made after 2015 even need firmware at all |
| 16:18 | <blast007> | Ah, actually I the packages.debian.org site is just missing file lists for the firmware package. That file is mentioned in the firmware-misc-nonfree description. |
| 16:18 | <blast007> | I see* |
| 16:20 | <malakim> | blast007, share the url please |
| 16:21 | <blast007> | you said you have firmware-misc-nonfree installed, so in theory you should have that file on your system |
| 16:21 | <somiaj> | malakim: in this case, 'apt show firmware-misc-nonfree', though I wouldn't worry about it if you don't notice any issues, as sney mentioned your card may not even need firmware |
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| 17:15 | <mooff> | is there such a thing as a 'responsive' motd? :) |
| 17:15 | <mooff> | thinking of some ascii art that switches to a different image for lower row and column values :-) |
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| 17:18 | <ansgar> | mooff: I guess you could run some external command instead of displaying the (static) motd file(s). |
| 17:18 | <malakim> | fortunes |
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| 17:21 | <malakim> | fortunes-debian-hints |
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| 17:23 | <malakim> | mooff, check it out^ |
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| 17:27 | <mooff> | thanks ansgar, malakim |
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| 18:01 | <mooff> | oh! here's a question: |
| 18:01 | <mooff> | how can i find out the exact address of a file in the filesystem cache in memory? |
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| 18:03 | <mooff> | i have bad ram, and found that discord won't start because of likely a bit flip in the filesystem cache - running it gives a Segmentation Fault |
| 18:03 | <tjcarter> | seems like you need to let the machine do some mem testing then |
| 18:04 | <mooff> | memtest86(+) hangs after 10 or so seconds 🤓 |
| 18:04 | <sarnold> | mooff: you use a tester like memtest86 or memtest86+ https://www.memtest86.com/blacklist-ram-badram-badmemorylist.html |
| 18:04 | <sarnold> | oh that isn't good |
| 18:05 | <mooff> | no 🤓 |
| 18:06 | <mooff> | i'm thinking if i can get the starting positions and a copy of the discord files in ram, i can compare them to the actual files and figure out where my worst segments are |
| 18:08 | <sarnold> | mooff: there's a handful of tools linked on https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/119776/7064 that could probably do the trick |
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| 18:10 | <mooff> | how might i search for the start of the discord header in ram? |
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| 18:10 | <mooff> | - in /dev/mem |
| 18:11 | <sarnold> | use ldd (boo) or readelf (yay, but more annoying to use) to find the files that it maps in, and then search for runs of bytes from those files |
| 18:11 | <mooff> | coreutils hasn't been rewritten in Rust yet. is it safe to use them to handle /dev/mem? 🤓 |
| 18:12 | <sarnold> | if /dev/mem even works any more, yeah |
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| 21:33 | <richard_h> | I'm familiar with using sed to find a pattern and replacement, with s/foo/bar/ |
| 21:34 | <richard_h> | but I want to find a different pattern first, and that would make the s/// quite complicated if it was all one command |
| 21:35 | <richard_h> | specifically, in my wordpress config wp-config.php, I want to find the line: |
| 21:35 | <richard_h> | define('DB_NAME', 'foo'); |
| 21:36 | <richard_h> | and then replace foo with bar |
| 21:36 | <sney> | some variety of bash loop with a variable |
| 21:36 | <richard_h> | but I don't want to replace foo in other lines (eg DB_USER) |
| 21:36 | <richard_h> | is it not possible to do it all in sed? |
| 21:37 | <richard_h> | my somewhat hazy recollection is that sed and ed are closely related, and ed and vi are also closely related |
| 21:37 | <sney> | you said it yourself, quite complicated. you can do a lot with 1 regular expression, sure |
| 21:37 | <sney> | but if you aren't a regexp wizard already, and you want to get this done today, then some kind of bash loop with a variable |
| 21:37 | <richard_h> | so I was hoping I could do the equivalent of "/DB_NAME" to search for DB_NAME, before running 's/foo/bar/' |
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| 21:39 | <sarnold> | how many of these things do you have to do? |
| 21:39 | <richard_h> | alternatively I'd probably switch to perl, where I could do it easily enough |
| 21:39 | <sarnold> | perl was going to be my recommendation if you said more than one or two :) hehe |
| 21:39 | <richard_h> | it's a script to create a test copy of a website |
| 21:39 | <sarnold> | not that perl's easy, but .. |
| 21:40 | <richard_h> | perl is familiar to me :-) |
| 21:40 | <richard_h> | but the other parts of the script are probably easier in bash |
| 21:41 | <richard_h> | but having got the idea in my head that 'this should be doable in sed', I'd quite like to solve that :-) |
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| 21:42 | <sarnold> | richard_h: I've found this very helpful when doing sed work https://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html -- I *think* I'd try to use d and p for this, https://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html#uh-30 https://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html#uh-31 but I'm no sed expert |
| 21:43 | <richard_h> | cheers - that site was a couple of entries down on my search results, which I haven't quite got to yet :-) |
| 21:43 | <richard_h> | thanks |
| 21:53 | <richard_h> | sed -i -e '/DB_NAME/ s/foo/foo-test/' |
| 21:53 | <richard_h> | I thought it would be something simple :-) |
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| 21:54 | <sarnold> | richard_h: is it really *that* easy? |
| 21:54 | <richard_h> | it appears to be |
| 21:54 | <richard_h> | well |
| 21:54 | <richard_h> | sed -i -e '/DB_NAME/ s/foo/foo-test/' wp-config.php |
| 21:55 | <sarnold> | richard_h: some of those older tools are just incredible :) heh. I thought it'd be easy enough but I'm still impressed |
| 21:56 | <richard_h> | richard_h: so I was hoping I could do the equivalent of "/DB_NAME" to search for DB_NAME, before running 's/foo/bar/' |
| 21:56 | <richard_h> | it's almost exactly that :-) |
| 21:57 | <twb> | bleh |
| 21:57 | * | twb invokes jwz's second law |
| 21:57 | <richard_h> | except I was thinking of the search being a separate command to run before the substitution, but it appears that the pattern is treated as an 'address' to apply the command to |
| 21:57 | <sarnold> | twb: hehe |
| 21:57 | <twb> | Does augeas understand php? I'm betting not |
| 21:57 | <twb> | Wow! /usr/share/augeas/lenses/dist/phpvars.aug |
| 21:58 | <twb> | So you want something like augtool -c 'set /files/etc/wordpress/wp-config.php/DBNAME = "fartplan"' |
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| 21:59 | <sarnold> | woah does that really do the thing? |
| 21:59 | <richard_h> | twb: can you elaborate on "jwz's second law"? |
| 22:00 | <twb> | sarnold: in practice you probably need to tell augeas which lens to apply, because that file won't have a standard location |
| 22:00 | <twb> | sarnold: but that's certainly how it works for e.g. sshd_config |
| 22:00 | <richard_h> | is that the "now you have two problems" quote? |
| 22:00 | <twb> | richard_h: yes |
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| 22:00 | <richard_h> | are you suggesting that regular expressions are the wrong solution in this case? |
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| 22:00 | <twb> | richard_h: yes, absolutely |
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| 22:02 | * | richard_h suggests that the bigger 'wrong' is using an executable scripting language for a config file in the first place, but that's a different issue ... |
| 22:02 | <sney> | wordpress always requires *some* kludging |
| 22:03 | <twb> | richard_h: yes, I agree on that as well |
| 22:03 | <richard_h> | I'm also intrigued to know what you think is a better solution (given I don't want to install augeas, or any other significant tool) |
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| 22:03 | <richard_h> | I'm also interested to know whether augeas does its job using regular expressions ... |
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| 22:05 | <twb> | richard_h: no it uses a parser |
| 22:05 | <richard_h> | which presumably does pattern matching somehow |
| 22:06 | <twb> | richard_h: so that for example, if the file you're editing contains "# My favourite DB_NAME is foo" or "DB_NAME_TO_ERASE = foo", you won't break it |
| 22:06 | <twb> | richard_h: no, it does parsing. |
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| 22:07 | <richard_h> | I agree that your example would result in an unnecessary or even harmful change |
| 22:08 | <richard_h> | does parsing not require matching patterns? Perhaps much simpler ones that REs do, but patterns nonetheless |
| 22:08 | <twb> | It's not clear to me what you think that means. |
| 22:08 | <richard_h> | it's possible that my thinking is not sufficiently clear |
| 22:09 | <sarnold> | every parser I've seen always boils down to regexes somewhere :) |
| 22:09 | <twb> | The file is decoded from bytes into codepoints, then lexed from codepoints into lexemes, then parsed from lexemes into an abstract syntax tree. |
| 22:09 | <sarnold> | often times regexes on both the individual chars and then on the tokens.. |
| 22:09 | <sarnold> | but hey that's a problem for someone else :) |
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| 22:10 | <twb> | sarnold: regular expressions may be involved, but it's not *just* matching regular expressions -- otherwise it would be impossible to use irregular syntax, like parentheses or quotes. |
| 22:10 | <sarnold> | twb: yeah, true enough |
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| 22:12 | <richard_h> | anyway, I could replace '/DB_NAME/' with some more specific RE to nail down the right line. I haven't seen an alternative suggestion yet :-) |
| 22:12 | <sarnold> | richard_h: chalk that up to not really knowing the wp config file |
| 22:14 | <richard_h> | also, this script is generally customised for each site. I have a look at the config file first. It's scripted so I can repeat it. |
| 22:14 | <twb> | richard_h: which would look something like '/^[[:space:]]*DB_NAME[[:space:]]\+=[[:space:]]\"\(.*\)\"/' |
| 22:14 | <richard_h> | sarnold: not sure what you mean |
| 22:14 | <twb> | Which is unreadable and error prone, so why not just use the bloody tool designed to solve this problem 100% right instead of only 80% right |
| 22:16 | <richard_h> | that tool being augeas? |
| 22:17 | <sney> | those automation tools e.g. ansible probably have existing templates for wordpress as well |
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| 22:17 | <twb> | richard_h: yes |
| 22:18 | <twb> | sney: sensible puppet and ansible people use augeas |
| 22:18 | <twb> | sney: that is, if you have to edit an existing file. Obviously it is much better to use a dropin .d |
| 22:19 | <twb> | http://ix.io/3yqg here is one I prepared earlier |
| 22:19 | <richard_h> | twb: "using a dropin .d" starts to sound like re-engineering wordpress |
| 22:19 | <sney> | I believe you, I just thought of ansible since it doesn't inherently need any extra software on the remote machine, and you benefit from all the times *they've* broken wordpress trying to do this outside of php |
| 22:19 | <twb> | sney: ansible needs at least 50MB of python on the remote host |
| 22:20 | <twb> | sney: augeas is about 3MB on top of that |
| 22:20 | <sney> | "extra" as in "not usually found on a run of the mill vm" |
| 22:20 | <sney> | anyone doing super slim custom builds is not even in this conversation |
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| 22:21 | <twb> | sney: apart from me? ;-P |
| 22:22 | <sney> | ha, right |
| 22:22 | <richard_h> | on the subject of unreadable ... I use ansible, but I've never found it particularly intuitive. |
| 22:22 | <twb> | ansible is bloody awful |
| 22:22 | <twb> | but other options are awfuller |
| 22:22 | <richard_h> | I don't really think yaml was the right tool for the job |
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| 22:27 | <richard_h> | let open_php = del /<\?(php)?[ \t]*\n/i "<?php\n" |
| 22:27 | <richard_h> | ^^ from phpvars.aug, mentioned above |
| 22:28 | <richard_h> | not familiar with augeas lenses, but that looks like an RE to me :-) |
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| 22:28 | <twb> | 12:10 <twb> sarnold: regular expressions may be involved, but it's not *just* matching regular expressions -- otherwise it would be impossible to use irregular syntax, like parentheses or quotes. |
| 22:28 | <richard_h> | sure |
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| 22:29 | <richard_h> | but it still kind of invalidates the jwz quote |
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| 22:31 | <richard_h> | anyway, in my fairly simple context, I think I'm going to persist with my possibly sub-optimal solution, and get the job done ... :-) |
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| 22:31 | <richard_h> | rather than having to learn augeas |
| 22:32 | <twb> | I suppose that was inevitable given we started with wordpress :/ |
| 22:32 | <richard_h> | well, yes |
| 22:33 | <richard_h> | if I didn't use any of the software I didn't like, I wouldn't achieve anything at all |
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| 22:36 | <anix> | I'd rather not acheive anything at all, than go backwards |
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| 22:40 | <richard_h> | anix: a slightly extreme perspective, perhaps |
| 22:40 | <Remora> | Hello all |
| 22:42 | <anix> | richard_h: I favour more a conservative approach really |
| 22:42 | <twb> | On non-x86 platforms, is /bin/kvm a symlink to qemu-system-x86_64, or to qemu-system-<native architecture> ? |
| 22:44 | <twb> | The latter -- https://packages.debian.org/sid/armhf/qemu-system-arm/filelist |
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| 22:44 | <twb> | So my build script can be more agnostic if I write "kvm" than "qemu-system-x86" ;-) |
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| 22:51 | <tuxd3v> | hello |
| 22:51 | <sarnold> | wb tuxd3v |
| 22:52 | <tuxd3v> | I installed virtualbox-6.1, from Oracle Repos |
| 22:52 | <tuxd3v> | thanks :) |
| 22:52 | <tuxd3v> | I don+ t know if I should install virtualbox-guest-additions-iso, from debian repos |
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| 22:53 | <sarnold> | only in the guest instances |
| 22:53 | <sarnold> | installing those in the host machine might prevent you from starting X11 entirely |
| 22:53 | <tuxd3v> | od if I should go for the VirtualBox extension pack |
| 22:53 | <tuxd3v> | or* |
| 22:53 | <sarnold> | no idea there |
| 22:54 | <OD> | tuxd3v: lucky you pinged me |
| 22:54 | <sney> | virtualbox guest drivers were mainlined in linux a long time ago, and you generally don't need them at all anymore |
| 22:54 | <sarnold> | oh sweet |
| 22:54 | <OD> | Use the vbox additions WITH YOUR VIRTUALBOX VERSION 9but a lot are already there) |
| 22:54 | <tuxd3v> | ho. thanks, I am installing it now, .. I passed some years without using virtualbox, but I memember of the guest editions :) |
| 22:55 | <sney> | the additions iso is useful for non-linux guests, like windows, but it's better to use the one that came with your virtualbox version. it's in a menu. |
| 22:55 | <sney> | don't install anything extra on the host unless you try to do something and functionality is missing. the less 3rd party goop, the better. |
| 22:56 | <tuxd3v> | thanks guys, it seems that it is already installed, and so everything should be fine, just installing virtualbox-6.1 :) |
| 22:56 | <tuxd3v> | nice |
| 22:57 | <twb> | sarnold: isn't -iso package just putting a .iso file on the filesystem somewhere? |
| 22:58 | <twb> | yeah it is |
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| 22:59 | <twb> | So AIUI it makes sense tht you install /usr/share/virtualbox/VBoxGuestAdditions.iso on the host, and then it's exposed to the guests as a virtual disk |
| 22:59 | <sarnold> | twb: oh that's not so bad |
| 22:59 | <tuxd3v> | I am now in the Host Network Manager section |
| 23:00 | <sney> | for support specific to virtualbox usage, go to #vbox |
| 23:00 | <tuxd3v> | I want to use my home switchs, and router, and dns provides and also dhcp, its that possible? |
| 23:00 | <tuxd3v> | sney, thanks |
| 23:01 | <sarnold> | probably that's a bridged mode, but it's been years since I've seen vbox |
| 23:01 | <sney> | yeah, it has a lot of different network options iirc, but I could easily be conflating them with virt-manager, which I've used since 2018ish |
| 23:02 | <twb> | You can just "apt install qemu-guest-agent" in the guest if you use qemu |
| 23:02 | <twb> | I think -iso is a hack bceause Oracle Virtualbox is evil |
| 23:02 | <sney> | yep |
| 23:02 | * | twb draw red underline below "Oracle" |
| 23:02 | <sarnold> | ^^^ |
| 23:04 | <sney> | debian packaging had workarounds on top of workarounds to deal with oracle licensing and distribution shenanigans and eventually wound up with #794466 anyway |
| 23:04 | <judd> | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/794466 in src:virtualbox (open, stretch, bullseye, buster, sid, bookworm): «virtualbox: might not be suitable for stable releases due to lack of cooperation from upstream on security support for older releases»; severity: serious; opened: 2015-08-03; last modified: 2021-08-16. |
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| 23:07 | <tuxd3v> | I believe my user should add the group 'vboxusers' right? |
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| 23:08 | <mooff> | !8ball |
| 23:08 | <dpkg> | Very doubtful. |
| 23:09 | <mooff> | unlucky |
| 23:09 | <sney> | tuxd3v: [21:00:16] <sney> for support specific to virtualbox usage, go to #vbox |
| 23:09 | <sney> | if nobody is home, read the manual. |
| 23:09 | <sney> | !virtualbox |
| 23:09 | <dpkg> | Oracle VM VirtualBox is <virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle, see https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox to install; we recommend <virt-manager> instead. http://www.virtualbox.org/ #vbox on irc.oftc.net. |
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| 23:27 | <tuxd3v> | sney many tanks |
| 23:27 | <tuxd3v> | thanks |
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| 23:29 | <tuxd3v> | for what I understood if you want for example usb-passthrough, you need the non-free Extension Pack |
| 23:30 | <tuxd3v> | and your user with appended group 'vboxusers' |
| 23:30 | <sney> | one of the many reasons virt-manager is better, you can just use regular qemu stuff for all passtrhough and hardware support |
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| 23:30 | <sney> | if all you're doing is running other OS guests, and you don't need any super proprietary virtualbox features, it's time to stop using virtualbox. |
| 23:32 | <twb> | It's a pity when I used gnome-boxes to install windows into ~/.local/share/ that it wasn't smart enough to copy the license out of /proc/acpi for the zero-click install |
| 23:33 | <mooff> | sounds like a good idea |
| 23:33 | <mooff> | why don't you start a conversation about that, or contribute information about it upstream? |
| 23:33 | <twb> | once I did that part manually, gnome-boxes did the entire windows install with no prompts |
| 23:33 | <sney> | stupid windows tricks has always been a struggle, but if that was an issue with gnome-boxes it may have been improved since |
| 23:34 | <twb> | and virt-manager can access the same VMs as gnome-boxes |
| 23:34 | <twb> | just add File > Add Connection > Qemu user session |
| 23:34 | <mooff> | can virt-manager automate it? |
| 23:34 | <twb> | mooff: not AFAIK |
| 23:35 | <mooff> | where would be the best place to implement it? |
| 23:35 | <twb> | I dunno |
| 23:36 | <twb> | The actual data is here: sudo hd -x /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM |
| 23:36 | <twb> | Don't ask me why they use ACPI instead of EFI |
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| 23:37 | <somiaj> | EFI also has a ACPI specification? I thought those were independent things |
| 23:38 | <twb> | somiaj: EFI has /sys/firmware/efivars or so |
| 23:38 | <dvs> | I thought it was ACPI and APM |
| 23:40 | <mooff> | twb: any thoughts on stuff i asked in #debian-next earlier would be welcome |
| 23:40 | <mooff> | https://mooff.awful.cooking/aa127e2aaf2eba32/debian-next-questions.log |
| 23:40 | <mooff> | [and others] |
| 23:42 | <twb> | mooff: I think ~/public_html/ is a bad idea if you're building a greenfield site, which you seem to be |
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| 23:43 | <twb> | mooff: apart from anything else, you don't want httpd to have access to /home or /root at all |
| 23:43 | <mooff> | twb: i have a web server for a few friends and me. they are not massive techies now but they both used to be Unix admins |
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| 23:44 | <twb> | I'd export /srv/www/html/users/<alice> or something, and make ~alice/public_html symlink to it, if really necessary. |
| 23:44 | <mooff> | twb: exactly. but i'd like the facility of us being able to expose stuff to the web by making dirs in our web/foo.world.com directories |
| 23:44 | <twb> | write a shitty shell script, I guess |
| 23:45 | <mooff> | yeah. i wondered if you could use ACLs to do it |
| 23:45 | <twb> | You could, but IMO it's a deeply bad idea to pretend part of /home is /srv/www |
| 23:45 | <mooff> | or hard links - worked out it would have be mounts obviously in the transcript, so it's probably better to just use a symlink |
| 23:45 | <mooff> | cool, i appreciate that take |
| 23:46 | <twb> | Make the users take responsibility for putting stuff into /srv/www/<their area> -- either directly over ssh, or via an upload protocol like SFTP, rsyncd, or DAV. |
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| 23:47 | <twb> | It means /srv/www/users/alice will be quotad separately from /home, but big deal |
| 23:47 | <twb> | Makes the apparmor/selinux policy much simpler, and allows ProtectSystem= and such |
| 23:47 | <mooff> | i will use /web/alice.cafe /web/bob.foo.com etc |
| 23:47 | <twb> | That's not FHS |
| 23:48 | <mooff> | i'm happy to symlink or create directories in the root for usability - on personal servers |
| 23:48 | <mooff> | and non-servers |
| 23:50 | <mooff> | remembering "/web" is easier for someone who's been out of the loop for a while than figuring which FHS / de-facto location web files have been in before |
| 23:50 | <mooff> | i made a fuse filesystem so i can 'tail -f /journal/myservice.log' to save on repetitive typing |
| 23:52 | <jmcnaught> | /journal/ and /var/log/ are the same length. |
| 23:54 | <richard_h> | for some stuff, I would bind mount (or symlink, if I'm not so worried about chroots etc) /srv/whatever into the user's home directory |
| 23:55 | <richard_h> | likewise the logs |
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| 23:55 | <mooff> | /var/log is already taken |
| 23:55 | <mooff> | unless you can mount it as an overlayfs of ext4+fuse :) |
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| --- | Log | closed Fri Sep 10 00:00:03 2021 |