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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-11

---Logopened Sat Sep 11 00:00:33 2021
00:03-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has left #debian [Error from remote client]
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00:04-!-mimi89999 is "mimi89999" on #debian #postmarketos-devel
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00:11-!-aloo_shu is "fighting credulity since 1895" on @#puppylinux #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
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00:17-!-aloo_shu is "fighting credulity since 1895" on @#puppylinux #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
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00:29-!-erentar3 is "MFMRx" on #debian #ceph-devel #ceph #alpine-linux
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00:39-!-tejr is "Tom Ryder" on #perl #debian-vim #debian-perl #debian
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00:58-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
00:59<hays>E: The repository 'https://security.debian.org bullseye/updates Release' does not have a Release file.
00:59<hays>im upgrading and getting this
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01:01-!-mzf is "realname" on #salsaci #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-hpc #minidebconf-online #mini-DebConf-fr #debian
01:03<shrew>!security
01:03<dpkg>Put "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main contrib non-free" in your /etc/apt/sources.list file to keep up-to-date on security updates in <stable>. Run "apt update" and "apt upgrade" (or "apt full-upgrade" if the updates are kept back). Also ask me about <dsa>, <security backports>, <oldstable security>, <testing security>, <unstable security>, <browser security>.
01:05<mooff>there could be a note about <priority pinning security> there too
01:06-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:06-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
01:06<mooff>in particular for testing unstable mix "tum" with Default-Release
01:07<mooff>dpkg, security is also <priority pinning security>,
01:07<dpkg>mooff: okay
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01:17-!-aloo_shu is "fighting credulity since 1895" on #puppylinux #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
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01:22-!-jrenken_ is "James Renken" on #Qubes_OS #packaging #kvm #https-everywhere #debian-ubuntu #debian-qemu #debian-privacy #debian-nginx #debian
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01:25<mooff>has anyone had fun running Rust coreutils?
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01:28-!-arnold_oree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
01:30*sussudio releases the badgers
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02:05-!-jrenken is "James Renken" on #Qubes_OS #https-everywhere #packaging #kvm #debian-ubuntu #debian-qemu #debian-privacy #debian-nginx #debian
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03:55-!-k-man is "Jason Lewis http://emacstragic.net" on #debian-next #debian #oftc
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05:02<Guest6948>o
05:03<Guest6948>ok
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05:53-!-roberto is now known as rogr
05:54<rogr>morning chaps
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05:56<mooff>roger, rogr
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06:24<bool>gibt es einen dyndnsdienst der wirklich kostenlos ist?
06:24<bool>no ip ist nur einen monat lang
06:25<cc>!de
06:25<dpkg>Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.libera.chat oder irc.belwue.de) - debian-user-german@lists.debian.org
06:26<bool>is there a dyndns service that really is free? no ip is just free for a monath
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06:29<sussudio>isn't freends.afraid.org free?
06:29<sussudio>dns, even.
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06:34<azeem>bool: I'm using http://www.twodns.de
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06:38<bool>hmm.. my router only supports dyndns, no-ip, selfhost.de, tzo.de and strato
06:41<bool>selfhost seems free on first glance
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06:52<bool>okay.. i got an account there and it is set up in my router. Now what? I got a little machine running a ssh server in my LAN I want to connect to
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07:07<at0m>bool: port-forward the port the sshd server is listening to, in your router
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07:08<at0m>bool: so outside connections to your router/homeIP will get forwarded to the machine and port running the sshd
07:10<at0m>bool: you might want to work without password (key based auth only), and once you make sure auth works without password, using just keys, disable the password auth in your sshd-config
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07:30<bool>port 20 is now forwarded to 49152.. i dont get this part.. doesn't ssh servers always listen on port 20? Do I have to reconfigure the ssh server?
07:31<azeem>bool: what's your router? I use twodns.de with a fritz.box, twodns.de can be used dydns-style I think
07:32<rudi_s>22 is SSH (without knowing any context of the discussion)
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07:34<bool>oops my mistake your are right of course!
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07:40<bool>isn't the whole problem with the forwarding thing that the nat service forwardes the IP from the gateway to the local machine? I don't get the whole port thing at all
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07:50<crawler>bool in short, portforwarding a port is like telling your router to forward any incoming requests at that port to a private LAN IP (specified in the forward/nat rule)
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08:45<jkc>bool: You could simply forward port 22 on the router/gateway to port 22 on the SSH host. No need to change the port its going to.
08:45<jkc>(An hour later, sure, but I'm just now catching up.)
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08:58<mosasaur>I'm running a program (e.g. barrierc, used to be synergyc) as root at login, but I want it to quit after I have managed to login, and run a non-root version of the script instead. However, after running the program as root, I can only kill it with sudo, which is kind of unpractical to do in a user script. How can I solve this?
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09:13<Ronie>hallo
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09:17<mooff>mosasaur: look into after login / 'post login' scripts for your Display Manager
09:18<mosasaur>mooff: it's lightdm, can't find any :)
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09:31<Tj>mosasaur: as a system service is it controlled by a systemd unit? of so you could add a BindsTo=/After= to a .path unit, say /run/barrier_root ("run-barrier_root.path" unit file), so that when your user session starts there's a --user unit that removes /run/barrier_system. That'll cause the .path unit to change to inactive which would in turn stop the system service that contains the
09:31<Tj>BindsTo/After=run-barrier_root.path then your --user unit can start barrier itself. It'd also have a ExecStopPost=touch /run/barrier_system to recreate that path when user session (or unit) is stopped
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09:35<mosasaur>Tj: I just noticed I have another box where it works by calling a script in lightdm.conf, maybe I just misconfigured the other box. Checking that out now. If it still doesn't work I'll try your method
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10:29<mosasaur>Tj: turns out the other box has the same problem. After doing sudo systemctl status lightdm it seems that barrierc is indeed running under a /system.slice/lightdm.service
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11:42<parrot>hello
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11:42<parrot>show options
11:42<parrot>cd
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12:11<sancog>123
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12:28<sancog>ots
12:36<onelegend>huh?
12:36<onelegend>do you have a question?
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12:42<aloo_shu>maybe if more people comment
12:46<jkc>On what?
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12:52<dreamer>hmm, this is maybe a bit generic question, but how can I find out how a file in /usr/local was installed? (ie via a 3rd party .deb or make install or otherwise)
12:52<dreamer>I have a `/usr/local/include/glib-2.0` and I can't remember for the love of me how I installed it :D
12:52<dreamer>(it's dated april 8th so probably then, but no clue how)
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12:53<sney>.deb packages (even 3rd party ones) don't touch /usr/local in most cases, so you probably compiled that from source and put it there yourself
12:53<sney>you can dpkg -S filename, to confirm
12:53<dreamer>hmm, don't have the source anymore though. so really no idea how ..
12:53<dreamer>yeah I did that. no result
12:53<sney>right, and this is why package managers are a good idea, so you don't have to remember where everything came from :)
12:54<dreamer>uhuh
12:54<dreamer>honestly no clue. don't have any glib sources in my git repo folders
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12:56<somiaj>!stow
12:56<dpkg>i guess stow is a nifty program used to manage a /usr/local/ hierarchy. It keeps all the programs separate, so you can install and remove them without playing the "which program does that file belong to" game; ask me about <stow usage>. http://www.gnu.org/software/stow . See also <usrlocal>, <uupdate>, <checkinstall>.
12:56<somiaj>dreamer: there are tools you can use in the future that can help manage /usr/local source installs like stow, which will put everything in its own directory and make links so it is clear where something came from (and easy to remove)
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14:35<burrows>I want to install youtube-dl on an headless machine but apt wants to install x11 with it? that can't be right for a cli tool
14:38<crawler>probably your apt is configured to install the recommended packages
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14:39<burrows>https://paste.ofcode.org/VgrxmpvFbKHN6HzJDT7gyw
14:39<burrows>no, it's not
14:40<crawler>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/youtube-dl
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14:41<burrows>i'm using bullseye
14:41<crawler>the link I paste is for bullseye
14:41<burrows>mb, misread your link as saying buster for some reason
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14:45<burrows>i'll just use a docker container :(
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14:47<mer_>Henlo
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14:54<user01>hi what is the recommended way to install a LaTeX class that isn't in the debian repo currently?
14:54<user01>well, could be in unstable
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14:56<user01>it looks like it is in sid
14:56<user01>https://packages.debian.org/sid/texlive-publishers
14:57<user01>could I just force install it in stable? should just be a bunch of template files
14:58<dreamer>burrows: you can also just use pip ..
14:59<mer_>Do you think it is possible to backport this fix from GNOME 40 to GNOME 3.38? Or is it a better idea to write an extension for it? https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/merge_requests/1816
15:00<mer_>I want to try doing it myself, but I'm unsure about trying to do a pr, or trying to write an extension
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15:04<burrows>thanks, dreamer, good idea. Though I'll use snap instead.
15:05<dreamer>but why?
15:05<dreamer>that doesn't make any sense to me
15:05<dreamer>it's a python package. use a python package manager
15:05<burrows>auto updates
15:06<dreamer>honestly, snap sucks
15:06<burrows>I agree but I'm already using snap for other things
15:06<dreamer>uhg
15:06<at0m>burrows: how about grabbing youtube-dl from their git repo? it has an installer there (or is it the plain script? i don't remember, but it does explain)
15:07<at0m>burrows: that's how i got it, and keep it up-to-date using a cron'd youtube-dl -U
15:08<at0m>burrows: you'll have to mind the depends yourself, like it'll sure depend on ffmpeg and others
15:08<dreamer>at0m: way easier to just `pip install youtube-dl`
15:08<dreamer>or `pip install -U youtube-dl` whenever you want to update
15:09<at0m>dreamer: isn't that another laggy downstream?
15:09<burrows>yeah, I don't get on too well with pip. The git suggestion looks perfect, at0m, thanks
15:10<dreamer>er, it's where the package is officially published
15:10<at0m>that would be on github last i checked
15:11<dreamer>as well. same thing
15:11<dreamer>pypi would be the "better" way to install python packages
15:11<dreamer>over some download from GH (unless you are a developer of course)
15:11<burrows>pip is for python developers, not users of other people's python code.
15:11<at0m>hmmm, may look into that, thanks
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15:13<dreamer>burrows: er. no?
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15:15<burrows>Let's pretend I install a Debian package without even knowing it's python. Let's pretend that package depends on something that's already installed with pip. I'll have that package on my system twice. pip feels like a mess to me
15:16<dreamer>not my problem you're doing it wrong
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15:17<burrows>maybe I am, but that's why I default to snap
15:17*dreamer stays very far away from snap
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15:20<tonrod>Hi there. After upgrade to bullseye, the scanner HP OfficeJet Pro 6978 is not working. Each time I run xsane, I get "Failed to open device esc:http://127.0.0.1:60000. Out of memory"
15:20<tonrod>It did work fine in stretch and the previous.
15:20<aloo_shu>after having tested all 3 install methods: upstream provided > pip > repo . specifically for yt-dl, not as a general suggestion. Install from repo once, then install from yt-dl site directly and into e.g. /usr/local/bin = best of 2 worlds, dependencies taken care of relatively reliably, and the immediate update availability you want due to yt-dl's nature
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15:22<tonrod>Printer works ok.
15:22<burrows>/use/local/bin is perfect :) thanks, guys
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15:23<aloo_shu>or $HOME/bin/ and a path prepend if you aren't an admin
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15:30<braf>hello world!
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15:32<Sqrt{not}>tonrod, did you upgrade from stretch to bullseye? or were you running buster in between?
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15:33<tonrod>Sorry, I had first stretch, then upgraded to buster when it became stable, in sequence. The problem is now with bullseye.
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15:40<tonrod>Sqrt{not}: Also, it was a fresh installation. I made a backup of data, and made a new installation on a cleaned disk.
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15:47<Sqrt{not}>tonrod, I get the idea that this error message is about available disk space, in /home/tonrod/ or wherever it is trying to write the image. Do you have lots of free disk space available there?
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15:50<tonrod>Sqrt{not}: I do, plus this time I went for LVM to avoid that problem. in the root directory "/" I have 817 GB free.
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15:52<Sqrt{not}>heh, that should be enough for one scan. that was my only idea, since I don't actually use xsane.
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15:53<sney>"out of memory" might be a red herring/catchall error, have you confirmed that whatever daemon is supposed to listen on 127.0.0.1:60000 is actually running?
15:56<tonrod>Sqrt{not}: I have tried all scanner packages, same result.
15:57<tonrod>I think it may be a problem with the usb sane libraries, who knows.
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16:00<ham5urg>Is there a metapackage I need to install besides cups to get auto-discovery of a network printer?
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16:01<sney>possibly avahi stuff, most desktops will include it
16:01<mooff>cups is deprecated afaik
16:01<mooff>there is a new openprinting server
16:02<ham5urg>I installed cups already
16:02<ham5urg>I would like to stick to it#
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16:02<mooff>and a new open printer protocol that (most?) vendors support
16:02*mooff ducks out
16:02<sney>cups isn't deprecated, it's just optional in some cases, ipp printing doesn't need it
16:02<sney>if you're accustomed to cups there's no need to stop using it though
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16:06<Sqrt{not}>ham5urg, cups recommends (but doesn't depend on) avahi-daemon --- do you have that installed?
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16:09<Izty>Hello, I have just plugged a thermal cable to my motherboard. How can I see the temperature it reports?
16:09<Izty>My board is a KGPE-D16 and I use lm_sensors. Here is the board config https://github.com/lm-sensors/lm-sensors/blob/master/configs/Asus/KGPE-D16.conf
16:10<spawacz>do you need to escape \+ in find -exec?
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16:10<Izty>I don't see a difference in the output of `sensors` with and without the cable
16:11<mooff>finding what you need to escape for find -exec is like trying to guess someone's password
16:12<sney>Izty: have you rebooted since connecting the new sensor? it might be necessary for the firmware to recognize it
16:14<Izty>sney: I'm not sure. I'll do it now
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16:17<tonrod>sney: how do i check daemon listening?
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16:17<sney>tonrod: you can 'ss -tlnp' as root to see your listening processes
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16:20<tonrod>sney: relevant seem to be "LISTEN 0 128 127.0.0.1:631 0.0.0.0:* users:(("cupsd",pid=779,fd=7))" and "LISTEN 0 4096 *:60000 *:* users:(("ipp-usb",pid=493690,fd=14))"
16:22<sney>ok, so it is listening
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16:23<sney>maybe 'journalctl -u ipp-usb' will show some more info from when xsane tried to connect to it
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16:28<tonrod>Started daemon, Stopped daemon, Succeeded. in two cases, "ipp-usb.service: State 'stop-sigterm' timed out"
16:29<Izty_>sney: This is what I get after reboot https://termbin.com/l965. It's identical to what I had before.
16:29<Izty_>sney: Am I supposed to read a temp2 or temp3 somewhere?
16:30<Izty_>And I don't get the fan speed, I don't know why
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16:31<mooff>i think i saw in a container than ss was actually a link to a replacement from systemd
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16:31<mooff>but none of the flags seemed to do what i wanted. -l, -n, -t etc.. confusing
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16:37<Diego_>hi everyone
16:38<Diego_>i'd like to get help to install debian on a netbook via usb
16:38<Diego_>does anyone in the room speaks spanish?
16:38<sney>!es
16:38<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/
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16:39<Tenkawa>sney: would you agree from this he needs a manual lmsensors conf file: https://github.com/lm-sensors/lm-sensors/blob/master/configs/Asus/KGPE-D16.conf
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16:39<Tenkawa>this is a really old board
16:40<sney>Tenkawa, Izty, sure, try it. I thought lmsensors just talked directly to the efi and got whatever info it has, but evidently that's not enough here
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16:40<Tenkawa>sney: this is pre-efi I think
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16:42<sney>asus's specifications don't say, but it's DDR3, so that's certainly new enough to have efi. I would guess that it supports both. and there'd certainly be some kind of standardized temp/fan firmware, anyway.
16:42<sney>acpi stuff, whatever
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16:44<Tenkawa>asus was iffy about standardization in that era
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16:45<sney>efi support for non-windows was pretty wack across the board until about 2015. but that's getting into the weeds, anyway, if the question is about supporting some OOB temp sensor.
16:49<Izty>I don't understand, why would I need a manual config when it seems to be included in lm_sensors?
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16:52<Tenkawa>Izty: which of the sensors in that pastebin output are you trying to work with? and what exactly do you want to do with it?
16:53<Tenkawa>are you "sure" you are actually seeing the sensor in the output at all?
16:53<Tenkawa>]and those aren't just the internal temp sensors?
16:53<sney>Izty: it might also help to specify what you mean by "thermal cable", is it an accessory meant for this board, or some aftermarket usb thing, or something else?
16:54<Tenkawa>sney: exactly
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16:54<Izty>Tenkawa: I would assume those are the default internal sensors since I got the same output before I plugged the cable
16:54<Tenkawa>that cable wont change anything on that output
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16:55<Izty>And I'm just trying to get the temperature reported from a thermal cable that I plugged to the board
16:55<mer_>Sorry, I made a question and then disconnected, my internet is /bad/
16:55<Tenkawa>thats why you either have to create a sensors config file or try to have it autogenerate with sensors-config
16:55<Izty>This is the cable: https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B01IL6NDCQ/
16:56<sney>ok, so just a probe that connects to an existing header.
16:56<sney>it should be in that list then, what header did you connect it to, does it say in the manual or screenprinted on the board itself?
16:56<Izty>Yes, the header is there. But I find it weird because it has 6 pins, I believe it's made for 2 cables of two pins each
16:57<Izty>I plugged it as described on the manual (https://www.asus.com/us/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/KGPED16/HelpDesk_Manual/)
16:57<Izty>Page 2-44 (page 44 of the pdf)
16:59<sney>it's an existing sensor, so it will correspond to one of your existing outputs. just the reading will change.
17:00<sney>it's not clear from sensors output which one of these is TR1 or TR2, so you can test it by putting the probe in a glass of cold water and see which sensor says close to 0C, etc
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17:00<Tenkawa>sney: that sensor config had cpu and tr* temp sensors not even listed on his output
17:00<sney>(if it's not waterproof then use some other item that you know the temp of)
17:01<sney>hm true, maybe you need to enable something in the bios/efi setup first
17:01<Izty>Tenkawa: Right, I was expecting a TR* or a temp2 or temp3 (as written in https://github.com/lm-sensors/lm-sensors/blob/master/configs/Asus/KGPE-D16.conf)
17:01<Sqrt{not}>mer_, nobody had an answer for your gnome question. maybe you should ask on #debian-gnome on this server?
17:01<Tenkawa>Izty: thats why you should write that lmsensors config file
17:01<Tenkawa>thats its purpose
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17:02<mer_>@Sqrt{not}, Oh! That's reasonable, thanks :¬)
17:02<Tenkawa>when it doesn't auto pick it up correctly
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17:07<Izty>Tenkawa: Ok I thought it was already included by default since it's in the repo
17:07<Izty>Tenkawa: Should I put it in /etc/sensors.d/?
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17:08<Tenkawa>checking (mine are mostly predone and I save them so I move them rarely)
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17:09<Tenkawa>/etc/sensors.conf or /etc/sensors.conf.d
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17:10<Tenkawa>/etc/sensors3.conf as well
17:10<Tenkawa>that is actually tried first
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17:11<Tenkawa>yep thats where all mine were
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17:14<Izty>Tenkawa: I put it in /etc/sensors.d/KGPE-D16.conf
17:15-!-tinga [~pflanze@5-168-208-80-pool.fiber.fcom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:15<Izty>But the output of `sensors` hasn't changed
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17:16<Sqrt{not}>Izty, try /etc/sensors.conf.d/
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17:17<Tenkawa>yeah didn't I type that "looks up"
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17:17<Sqrt{not}>(that's where I pasted it from actually ;)
17:18<Tenkawa>thought so
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17:18<Tenkawa>after that he needs to run sudo /etc/init.d/lm-sensors restart too
17:18<Tenkawa>(just to be thorough)
17:19<Tenkawa> /etc/sensors3.d is the new recommended location though btw
17:20<Tenkawa>er
17:20<Tenkawa>/etc/sensors3.conf
17:20<Tenkawa>if you look at the manpage it points this out
17:21<Izty>As in mv /etc/sensors3.conf /etc/sensors3.conf.old
17:21<Izty>then mv /etc/sensors.d/KGPE-D16.conf /etc/sensors3.conf?
17:21<Tenkawa>no
17:21<Tenkawa>add the new ones in the /etc/sensors3.conf file
17:21<Izty>Oh so just append https://github.com/lm-sensors/lm-sensors/blob/master/configs/Asus/KGPE-D16.conf to /etc/sensors2.conf?
17:22<Tenkawa>if you are on v2 then yes
17:22<Tenkawa>I am running v3 of sensors
17:22<Tenkawa> cat sensors3.conf | wc -l
17:22<Tenkawa>536
17:23<Tenkawa>I have 536 lines of sensors
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17:23<Izty>Tenkawa: It says sensors version 3.6.0 with libsensors version 3.6.0
17:24<Izty>I appended it to sensors3.conf then restarted but still the same output
17:24<Izty>And I don't get any fan speed. I don't know if that's expected
17:24<Tenkawa>no change in the output at all?
17:25<Tenkawa>minimally the names shouldve switched a bit
17:26<Izty>Here is the output https://termbin.com/iyxg
17:26<Izty>I believe I sent a termbin link before
17:26<Izty>with the old output
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17:27<Izty>Here it is https://termbin.com/l965
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17:29<Tenkawa>yeah identical
17:30<Tenkawa>only other thing I could suggest is saving your config file and let the auto-config try to generate a new file (sensors-config)
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17:30<Tenkawa>very odd
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17:36<Izty>I don't have sensors-config available
17:37<Izty>All I have is "sensors sensors-conf-convert sensors-detect"
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17:39<Tenkawa>interesting.. they removed it
17:39<Tenkawa>oh yeah.. its detect
17:39<Tenkawa>it got renamed
17:40<Tenkawa>(I'm really tired.. going to have to shutdown soon.. I can tell my mind is fading)
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17:54<Izty>Ok I'm doing it now
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17:56<Izty>In /sys/class/hwmon*/name, I only have "k10temp" 4 times, "fam15h_power" twice and "nouveau" once
17:56<Izty>So it looks like it isn't detected
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18:21<Izty_>Tenkama: Output changed :D. There might be some garbage in it but it did change: https://termbin.com/e0hj
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18:34<Sqrt{not}>qotd0
18:34<Sqrt{not}>!qotd0
18:34<dpkg><nvz> abrotman: nope.. just wakin up and seeing Guerin thats all
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19:05<bremner>what normally creates /run/user/<uid> on a bullseye+systemd system? I'm logging in via srun (from slurm) and it isn't there
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19:08<bremner>I guess pam_systemd does that?
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19:10<mooff>sounds possible
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19:14<enigma9o7>#debian=offtopic
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19:23<tjcarter>noooo #debian isn't offtopic, #debian-offtopic=offtopic 😁
19:24<mooff>yeah, i was like, oof 😛
19:25<tjcarter>moof[f]
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19:26<tjcarter>I think pam_systemd, yes
19:26<mooff>yeah, moof
19:26<tjcarter>I'm not 100% on that though
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19:29<tjcarter>gnupg's manpage sucks.
19:29<tjcarter>I don't wanna write a manpage…
19:29*tjcarter whines
19:29<tjcarter>(and this is why the manpage continues to suck.)
19:30<mooff>tjcarter: `tldr gpg`
19:30<mooff>`apt install tldr`
19:31<tjcarter>I actually really only need the first section of the gpg manpage that doesn't exist
19:31*tjcarter goes full cranky old man
19:32<tjcarter>I've been using GnuPG longer than some of you yung'uns have been alive. And in my day we downloaded our gnupg packages at 1.5kb/sec, uphill, both ways
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19:33<tjcarter>I just know a couple of cmdline arguments have changed in recent years 😃
19:33<mooff>both ways 😅
19:34<tjcarter>well technically it was 1.3kB/sec going up
19:35<tjcarter>there isn't a tldr gpg page 😞
19:36<tjcarter>ah, you have to update
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20:12<tjcarter>mooff: sadly the tldr is somewhat less useful because it forces color codes into the output
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20:44<mooff>tjcarter: you want ansi2txt: tldr ls | ansi2txt
20:45<tjcarter>I actually want the program to query terminfo and behave itself
20:45<tjcarter>but yes, that works in a pinch
20:45<mooff>yes, i agree that'd be better
20:50<tjcarter>*sigh* I'd forgotten how much "fun" it is to have offlineimap crash on unhandled exceptions.
20:52<tjcarter>mutt still seems to be the effective state of the art for what it does (mutt or neomutt), and mutt's IMAP still assumes your mail server is sitting next to you, not halfway across the world.
20:52<mooff>want to give an over/under on the probability we'll use SMTP/POP3/IMAP for interplanetary communication?
20:53<tjcarter>Not IMAP for that. SMTP though, sure.
20:53-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
20:53<mooff>yeah. and i could see POP3 being a better protocol than IMAP
20:53<tjcarter>Unless someone decides airmail's a better idea, there's a Linux client for that in sid I saw just the other day
20:53<mooff>'who cares what folder its in. do we have mail or not. we'll sort it here on mars'
20:54<tjcarter>(hamradio thing)
20:54<mooff>on Internet email.. "New RFCs welcome"
20:54<tjcarter>No they aren't. Not really.
20:55<mooff>heheh
20:55<tjcarter>Nobody wants to do anything with it that might break compatibility with the 2003 version of MS Outhouse
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20:56<tjcarter>airmail's also an antiquated format, but hams already had it 15 years before they needed it, so they used it when digital modes for emcomm started being a thing.
20:57<Sqrt{not}>why do I have to install something named npm and something named nodejs, to get this fancy readers-digest-manpage thing?
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20:58<bremner>because 2021?
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21:04<Sqrt{not}>No manual entry for 2021
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21:13<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: Of course not. Just read it: 2020 won.
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21:17<tjcarter>also the fact that this thing is written in javascript and is kinda half-assed (hard-coded color codes), but still manages to be somewhat useful … is pretty much the description of modern programming in the age of stackexchange copypasta.
21:17<mooff>it's less stackexchange than it is Google for libraries then skim their READMEs
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21:20<Sqrt{not}>"Although the new language and its interpreter implementation were called LiveScript when first shipped as part of a Navigator beta in September 1995, the name was changed to JavaScript for the official release in December."
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21:28<Sqrt{not}>I guess if it's 26 years old already, it might be OK to try it out.
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21:30<mooff>it's stable, and Not That Bad If You Whisper To It Sweetly
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23:11-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
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23:16<mooff>"for my next trick..." chroots in a for throwaway overlay on tmpfs over the root drive, for build dependencies, scenario / tool testing
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23:31<mooff>would switching to another VT, and managing to login to a KDE only installed in memory, be something like a skateboarding 180? pop shoveit?
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