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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-12

---Logopened Sun Sep 12 00:00:34 2021
00:01-!-amcclure [anton@tloks.com] has joined #debian
00:01-!-amcclure is "anton" on #debian
00:02-!-simonpatapon [simon@troude.pet] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
00:04-!-simonpatapon [simon@troude.pet] has joined #debian
00:04-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:05-!-samuel [~smuxi@fixed-187-190-199-97.totalplay.net] has joined #debian
00:05-!-samuel is "Your Name" on #debian
00:06-!-arnold_oree [~arnoldore@146.50.93.209.dyn.plus.net] has joined #debian
00:06-!-arnold_oree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
00:06-!-samuel is now known as Guest7016
00:09-!-Guest7016 [~smuxi@fixed-187-190-199-97.totalplay.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:11-!-thatohgi [~thatohgi@96.39.210.116] has joined #debian
00:11-!-thatohgi is "realname" on #debian @#pureos #tor
00:18-!-tzf [~Tyzef@202.153.80.211] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:20-!-vdamewood is "Vincent Damewood" on #moocows #haiku
00:20-!-vdamewood [~vdamewood@0002b6dc.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:21-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.75.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:21-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.72.92] has joined #debian
00:21-!-aloo_shu is "fighting credulity since 1895" on @#puppylinux #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
00:27-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:27-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
00:30-!-Urk [~Oink@2601:647:5c80:2730::3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:35-!-crawler_ [~crawler@197.37.35.121] has joined #debian
00:35-!-crawler_ is "crawler" on #linode #debian
00:36-!-lindsays [~lindsays@garza.riseup.net] has joined #debian
00:36-!-lindsays is "Lindsay Stewart" on #debian
00:36-!-lindsays [~lindsays@garza.riseup.net] has quit []
00:42-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@ec2-52-15-173-116.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
00:42-!-trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian
00:42-!-crawler [~crawler@0002cbdd.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:45-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.72.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:46-!-amcclure [anton@tloks.com] has quit [Quit: amcclure]
00:46-!-amcclure [anton@tloks.com] has joined #debian
00:46-!-amcclure is "weechat" on #debian
00:47-!-sgn [~sgn@0002996f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:47-!-sgn [~sgn@0002996f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:47-!-sgn is "sgn" on #musl-distros #s6 #alpine-linux #debian #oftc
00:53-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:55-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:55-!-semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee
00:56-!-jpw [~jpw@cpc146708-rdng28-2-0-cust213.15-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
00:56-!-jpw is "..." on #debian-offtopic #debian
00:57-!-kryptik189999 [~user@4G4AADFZ7.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:57-!-kryptik189999 is "user" on #debian
00:59-!-kryptik189999 [~user@4G4AADFZ7.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
01:01-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
01:03-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has joined #debian
01:03-!-abdulocracy is "@me:abdulocra.cy" on #debian
01:06-!-crazyfrog [~crazyfrog@2001:4bc9:a40:fab3:3557:207a:2163:39cc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:06-!-crazyfrog [~crazyfrog@2001:4bc9:a40:fab3:55cd:2a57:3559:e78a] has joined #debian
01:06-!-crazyfrog is "realname" on @#dnsys #debian #debian.de-offtopic #tuxmail #linux #biz
01:08-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:a101:cd7c:959c:315f] has joined #debian
01:08-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
01:08-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.111.254] has joined #debian
01:08-!-aloo_shu is "fighting credulity since 1895" on @#puppylinux #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
01:08-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has quit [Quit: A|an]
01:19-!-Doraemon [~NeoCron@p200300c4cf4f9c00198c896a0feeb747.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
01:19-!-Doraemon is "Doraemon" on #virt #alpine-linux #wayland #C #mm #linux #nouveau #kvm #debian
01:22-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.111.254] has quit [Quit: I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world.]
01:24-!-bullgard4 [~bullgard4@dslb-094-223-009-085.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
01:24-!-bullgard4 is "realname" on #debian #bluez #kernelnewbies #debian-next
01:26-!-neocron [~NeoCron@p200300c4cf3ba70012c3036b63257be6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:43-!-craigevil [~craig@00012e49.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:43-!-craigevil is "craig" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
01:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 1003] by debhelper
01:49-!-nevivurn [~nevivurn@00028645.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:49-!-nevivurn is "nevivurn" on #tor-relays #tor-project #moocows #debian-next #debian #C
01:51-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
01:51-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
01:52-!-r3m [~launch@2600:3c04::f03c:92ff:fe5e:173] has joined #debian
01:52-!-r3m is "launch" on #debian #linode #bitlbee
01:53-!-secntech [~secntech@0002a124.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:53-!-secntech is "tp" on #tor-project #suckless #redditprivacy #Qubes_OS #privacytech #freedombox #debian #cryptoparty
01:59-!-chuangzh1 [~chuangzhu@27.39.221.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:59-!-chuangzh1 [~chuangzhu@27.39.221.241] has joined #debian
01:59-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
02:01-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:05-!-ax56234 [~NickServ@2600:6c50:7300:23f:5062:aa11:f924:76a3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:08-!-p [p@209.182.126.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:10-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has joined #debian
02:10-!-abdulocracy is "@me:abdulocra.cy" on #debian
02:13<ozzloy>how do i configure exim on debian to accept email to kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org ?
02:16-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has quit []
02:16-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has joined #debian
02:16-!-seednode6 is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
02:16-!-melpy [~melpy@0002923c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:16-!-melpy is "melpy" on #debian
02:20-!-pax [~Thunderbi@host-82-58-140-134.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
02:20-!-pax is "pax" on #debian
02:21-!-pax [~Thunderbi@host-82-58-140-134.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
02:21-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
02:21-!-hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
02:44-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:5d00:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374] has joined #debian
02:44-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #oolite-dev #oftc #freedesktop #C #s6 #radeon #oolite #openstreetmap #debian-xfce #debian
02:47-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:47-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #kvm #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
02:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 1009] by debhelper
02:48-!-FH_thecat [~FH_thecat@75.11.25.212.ftth.as8758.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:50-!-ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Quit: leaving]
02:50-!-ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #debian
02:50-!-ozzloy is "ozzloy palindromemordnilap" on #debian
02:50-!-toto_ [~toto@5.146.195.235] has joined #debian
02:50-!-toto_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
02:55-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:01-!-enkrypt [~enkrypt@000140b5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
03:02-!-enkrypt [~enkrypt@000140b5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:02-!-enkrypt is "enkrypt" on #oftc #debian-next #debian
03:03-!-richardm75 [~richardm7@2600:8801:c507:2900:9105:7e9:bad6:a2f3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:05-!-ircuser-1 [~Johnny@71.63.241.168] has quit []
03:06-!-BenNZ [~Ben@203.96.218.156] has joined #debian
03:06-!-BenNZ is "Ben" on #vbox #debian #debian-next
03:06-!-dnl [~daniel@000215b5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:09-!-ozzloy is now known as Guest7023
03:12-!-dnl [~daniel@147.87.5.199] has joined #debian
03:12-!-dnl is "Daniel Baumann" on @#bfh-linux-users #bfh-linux-systems #bfh-linux-sysadmin #progress-linux #open-infrastructure #sisu #debian-openstack-commits #debian-netdata #debian-devel-changes #debian-next #debian
03:13-!-Guest7023 [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Quit: leaving]
03:18-!-ozzloy [~ozzloy@0002ce90.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:18-!-ozzloy is "ozzloy palindromemordnilap" on #debian
03:23-!-hbautista [~hbautista@187.171.80.72] has joined #debian
03:23-!-hbautista is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
03:23-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:25-!-ssaq [~serkan@176.42.23.18] has joined #debian
03:25-!-ssaq is "realname" on #debian
03:25-!-ssaq [~serkan@176.42.23.18] has quit []
03:27-!-heiserhorn is "Michele Cane" on #oftc #debian-next
03:27-!-heiserhorn [~heiserhor@185.159.157.8] has joined #debian
03:27-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:29-!-heiserhorn [~heiserhor@185.159.157.8] has quit []
03:32-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has joined #debian
03:32-!-abdulocracy is "@me:abdulocra.cy" on #debian
03:33-!-toto_ [~toto@5.146.195.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:40-!-andrii [~oftc-webi@77-123-52-106.rov.volia.net] has joined #debian
03:40-!-andrii is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
03:45-!-andrii [~oftc-webi@77-123-52-106.rov.volia.net] has left #debian []
03:51-!-TheCreeper [~TheCreepe@000209ab.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:51-!-tasata [~atalsta@dsl-trebng22-54f93c-162.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
03:51-!-tasata is "Antti Talsta" on #debian
03:51-!-secntech [~secntech@0002a124.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:53-!-andrii [~oftc-webi@77-123-52-106.rov.volia.net] has joined #debian
03:53-!-andrii is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
03:54-!-andrii [~oftc-webi@77-123-52-106.rov.volia.net] has quit []
03:59-!-Doraemon [~NeoCron@p200300c4cf4f9c00198c896a0feeb747.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:01-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
04:01-!-hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
04:05-!-hendursa1 [~weechat@7YZAACZQA.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:05-!-hendursa1 is "weechat" on #consfigurator #wayland #robigalia #debian #postmarketos #kernelnewbies
04:08-!-herbert [~herbert@192-164-3-163.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #debian
04:08-!-herbert is "realname" on #debian
04:09-!-Etua [~Thunderbi@danelski.pl] has joined #debian
04:09-!-Etua is "Etua" on #openttd #debian-pl #debian #osm-pl
04:10-!-vesankellot [~vesankell@2a02:ce0:2800:4440:a6cc:1b8f:5505:ee25] has joined #debian
04:10-!-vesankellot is "vesankellot" on #debian
04:11-!-Etua [~Thunderbi@danelski.pl] has quit []
04:11-!-molinsi [~molinsi@163.179.217.34] has joined #debian
04:11-!-molinsi is "realname" on #debian
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04:12-!-hendursaga [~weechat@4G4AADFWW.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:16-!-herbert [~herbert@192-164-3-163.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:18-!-Maduro52 [~4564asdf6@din-74-166-231-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #debian
04:18-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
04:18-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has quit []
04:18-!-ZachGibbens [~ZachGibbe@00028e95.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
04:19-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has joined #debian
04:19-!-wvdakker is "wvdakker" on #debian-next #debian
04:19-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has quit []
04:19-!-wvdakker is "wvdakker" on #debian-next #debian
04:19-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has joined #debian
04:20-!-ZachGibbens [~ZachGibbe@00028e95.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:20-!-ZachGibbens is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #ohiolinux #nslug #ext4 #debian
04:20-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has quit []
04:20-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has joined #debian
04:20-!-wvdakker is "wvdakker" on #debian-next #debian
04:20-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has quit []
04:21-!-wvdakker is "wvdakker" on #debian-next #debian
04:21-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has joined #debian
04:26-!-tagomago [~tagomago@87.125.215.143] has joined #debian
04:26-!-tagomago is "Tagomago" on #debian
04:30-!-fax [~quassel@78-27-102-55.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
04:30-!-fax is "fax" on #fdroid #OpenBSD #oftc #java #debian #linux
04:31-!-hbautista [~hbautista@187.171.80.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:31-!-crydotsnake1 [~expl0it@149.172.49.38] has joined #debian
04:31-!-crydotsnake1 is "purple" on #debian
04:34<crydotsnake1>Good morning :)
04:34-!-rd235 [~renzo@94-33-52-139.static.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #debian
04:34-!-rd235 is "renzo" on #debian
04:35-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@00014f22.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:35-!-Blacker47 is "Blacker47" on #debian-next #debian
04:35-!-rd235 [~renzo@94-33-52-139.static.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit []
04:40-!-crydotsnake_ [~crydotsna@149.172.49.38] has joined #debian
04:40-!-crydotsnake_ is "realname" on #debian
04:40<crydotsnake_>hi
04:40-!-wytchmaster [~wytchmast@groupware.proxion.de] has joined #debian
04:40-!-wytchmaster is "Andreas " on #debian
04:41-!-crydotsnake1 [~expl0it@149.172.49.38] has left #debian []
04:46-!-AndroUser [~androirc@149.172.49.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:47-!-evgen [~evgen@195.226.203.11] has joined #debian
04:47-!-evgen is "realname" on #debian
04:48-!-awal1 [~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-23-70-55-160-158.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:48-!-evgen [~evgen@195.226.203.11] has quit []
04:50-!-u^A is now known as Guest7026
04:50-!-u^A|debian [~allberto@110.159.114.248] has joined #debian
04:50-!-u^A|debian is "marcellini168" on #debian #linuxhelp
04:53-!-Guest7026 [~allberto@92.223.85.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:59-!-richardm75 [~richardm7@2600:8801:c507:2900:95f3:f57:76f8:3909] has joined #debian
04:59-!-richardm75 is "realname" on #debian
05:02-!-CyberTailor [~cyber@0BGAAD6NF.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
05:02-!-CyberTailor is "Anna (she/her)" on #debian #alpine-offtopic #alpine-linux #tor
05:06-!-gelignite [~gelignite@55d48887.access.ecotel.net] has joined #debian
05:06-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #debian #llvm #openttd
05:06-!-colinmccn [~colinmcn3@93.176.132.131] has joined #debian
05:06-!-colinmccn is "realname" on #debian #freebsd-clang #freebsd
05:08-!-sancog [~sancog@2409:8a34:3c3a:f800:2a9d:ce7b:b4ae:a050] has joined #debian
05:08-!-sancog is "Unknown" on #debian
05:09-!-TheRuralJuror [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
05:09-!-TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian-next #debian.or.at #security #debian
05:12-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:14-!-crydots51 [~crydotsna@149.172.49.38] has joined #debian
05:14-!-crydots51 is "crydotsnake" on #debian
05:15-!-Mezz [~Mezz@dsl-hkibng31-54fafc-123.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
05:15-!-Mezz is "Mezz" on #llvm #packaging #redditprivacy #oftc #alpine-linux #publiclab #moocows #kvm #Qubes_OS #help #debian #biz #debian-xfce #freedombox #ceph @#gemu #aqi-data-share #virt
05:16-!-Izty [~Izty@0002bffa.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
05:16-!-Izty is "Izty" on #oftc #fdroid #debian
05:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 1017] by debhelper
05:18-!-crydotsnake_ is now known as Guest7027
05:18-!-crydots51 is now known as crydotsnake_
05:19-!-colinmccn [~colinmcn3@93.176.132.131] has quit []
05:20-!-Izty_ [~Izty@mail.huchet.me] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:21-!-Brigo [~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
05:21-!-Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic
05:24-!-BenNZ [~Ben@203.96.218.156] has quit [Quit: Everytime I think IQ's must have dropped recently, I remember that this is the internet]
05:25*dreamer upgrading his workstation to bullseye - fingers crossed
05:30<Guest7027>Good luck dreamer! :)
05:30-!-crydotsnake_ is now known as Guest7028
05:30-!-Guest7027 is now known as crydotsnake_
05:31-!-gelignite [~gelignite@55d48887.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Quit: Stay safe!]
05:31<crydotsnake_>I already use Debian 11 and i love it
05:31-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2]
05:34<vesankellot>me too
05:36-!-crazyfrog_ [~crazyfrog@2001:4bc9:a41:6c3c:2a5:5c9a:feee:5d77] has joined #debian
05:36-!-crazyfrog_ is "realname" on #dnsys #debian #debian.de-offtopic #tuxmail #linux #biz
05:37<dreamer>I really need newer glibc, too many things breaking
05:37<dreamer>ok, at full-upgrade step
05:38-!-crazyfrog__ [~crazyfrog@2001:4bc9:a41:6c3c:459e:7b9f:e113:c7fa] has joined #debian
05:38-!-crazyfrog__ is "realname" on #dnsys #debian #debian.de-offtopic #tuxmail #linux #biz
05:39<CyberTailor>debian installer can't connect to WPA-EAP :C
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05:45<user9999>Hi. How do I "apply" firmware to a Debian live usb?
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05:46<CyberTailor>user9999: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
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05:47<user9999>CyberTailor thanks
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05:51<tjcarter>I'd personally rather be able to add the debian-installer to a "full installation" (a live installation actually) and be able to run it like Calamares runs. But … I'm crazy and the old installer makes some assumptions that are hard to satisfy in anything else now.
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05:56<user9999>Can firmware actually spy on users?
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05:57<tjcarter>user9999: yes*, (spy on what, exactly, and under what circumstances?)
05:58<user9999>tjcarter like capture screen recordings, camera recordings, microphone recordings etc
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05:58<tjcarter>user9999: Intel and AMD firmware, for example, run at a level above even a system hypervisor, Intel systems have literally a 486 processor in the Platform Controller Hub (the PCH chip) and they run a thing called the Intel Management Engine, which loads and runs a full Minix operating system in the background.
06:00<tjcarter>user9999: this could be, has been hacked. It can run webservers or background processes. It can read all memory on the system, scrape and exfiltrate data. And you can't really completely turn it off. Only at best can it be neutered.
06:01<user9999>tjcarter I've heard about that. Why can't it be turned off? Is it needed or is it there just because intel wants it there
06:01<tjcarter>AMD has similar, but it's gotten less press. And while other devices firmware have less access, a network card's firmware could do something to packets going through it. A router firmware can do as much as the IME can, just … on another device, your router in this case.
06:01<tjcarter>So the possibility exists.
06:02<dreamer>hmz, full-upgrade failing on kodi: https://bpa.st/DPWQ
06:02<tjcarter>Mostly the latter. It's useful for things like patching bugs in the CPU and the like
06:03<user9999>tjcarter hmm so is there any disadvantages to neutralising it?
06:04<tjcarter>some. As I said, it's responsible for things like patching bugs in CPU code. That is necessary from time to time.
06:04<tjcarter>Ideally it should be disabled, but enabled to inject a patch, then disabled again.
06:05<tjcarter>Intel Does Not Want to do that. Why not? … I suspect an alphabet agency or two told them not to.
06:05<dreamer>hmz, can't purge kodi/kodi-bin either
06:05<user9999>tjcarter whats weird is that nsa computers dont have this intel management engine.
06:06<user9999>Does that mean their cpus can't be patched?
06:07<tjcarter>dreamer: you're using debian multimedia. that makes your system basically unmaintainable and unsupportable by us, sadly. The developer who set that up literally made every package use something called an epoch, which guarantees that once you install it, it takes over your system. It took me a LONG time extract that crap from my system after I saw what it had done within 15 minutes.
06:07<dreamer>Tj:
06:08<tjcarter>user9999: it might mean that. Most CPU bugs can be worked around in software.
06:08<dreamer>tjcarter: sry. thnx
06:08<dreamer>managed to remove it .. I think
06:08<user9999>If I remembered correctly amd said it would "free" their management engine source code. Guess an alphabet agency told forced them not too
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06:08<dreamer>not sure when I installed from deb multimedia. and wasn't aware of these issues
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06:10<tjcarter>dreamer: there's a couple of factoids in dpkg that explain how and why it breaks things, but … I don't like giving canned answers saying "we won't help you", it seems unfriendly. It's just that we often cannot because the packages are out of our control.
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06:11*tjcarter says "our" as if he didn't retire over a decade ago …
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06:11<dreamer>tjcarter: I'm reading the wiki
06:12<dreamer>I will remind myself to not use d-m.o any more :#
06:12<Tj>user9999: also worth noting the management engine access isn't unique to Intel/AMD. RaspoberryPi for example, the ARM CPUs are slaves to a VPU that boots and controls the device
06:12<dreamer>I think I used one or two packages because I didn't feel like manually building them
06:12<tjcarter>yeah
06:13<tjcarter>but dpkg -l
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06:14<tjcarter>but dpkg -l | grep 'dmo[0-9]'
06:14<dreamer>oh damn, that's way more than I thought :#
06:14<tjcarter>THAT was my reaction
06:14<tjcarter>and look how critical they are… how many things use ffmpeg, for example?
06:15<dreamer>hmhm
06:15<dreamer>and gstreamer
06:15<tjcarter>Let's see if I can remember the factoid, it had a suggestion for removing it
06:15<tjcarter>!dmm
06:15<dpkg>We recommend against using deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See http://deb-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <dmm bullseye>, <dmm buster>. See also <dmm list>, <dmm mirrors>, <dmm pinning>, <why not dmm>, <dmm remove>.
06:15<dreamer>this is going to take some cleanup ..
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06:15<tjcarter>It took me > 2 hours
06:16<dreamer>first I need to finish this dist-upgrade
06:17<dreamer>then reboot. then autoremove. and then see what needs cleaning p :#
06:17<dreamer>up*
06:17<tjcarter>I would occasionally disagree about "poor quality", but I consider the packaging to be poork
06:17<tjcarter>the upstream software may or may not be, but taking everything and shoving an epoch on it definitely is.
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06:19<dreamer>hmhm. I can see how that's problematic
06:20<dreamer>ok, reboot-time :)
06:20<dreamer>fingers crossed ..
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06:23<dreamer>oh. I forgot that this upgrade completely messes up my terminal font :(
06:23<dreamer>and now I hate the world again.
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06:24<dreamer>terminator looks super weird too
06:24<dreamer>uhg. FML
06:25<dreamer>I spend 90% of my time in this program and now my eyes are bleeding
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06:26<dreamer>sorry, this is really making me murderous
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06:35<crydotsnake_>Has the upgrade too Debian 11 worked for you Dreamer ? :D
06:35<dreamer>kind of. it broke things :(
06:35<dreamer>the most important thing
06:35<dreamer>but I kind of knew this would happen. saw it on ubuntu 20:04 already
06:35<dreamer>still don't have a solution
06:35<crydotsnake_>Is there a good article on how a upgrade works from debian 10 too 11?
06:36<dreamer>if anyone has a good monospace font to recommend I'm all ears ..
06:36*dreamer trying a bunch out and they're all terrible
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06:39<crydotsnake_>Okay
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06:40<dreamer>and I don't understand why the terminal borders are all 3x as thick as before
06:40<crydotsnake_>Are you using GNOME?
06:40<dreamer>no?
06:40<dreamer>I don't see how that's relevant
06:41<crydotsnake_>^^
06:41<dreamer>separator thickness solved. terminal font still terrible though :(
06:42<crydotsnake_>I like the Meslo font
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06:44<dreamer>I was on `dejavu sans mono book` but it looks super weird
06:44<dreamer>at the size I had, 7, it's all too big. at 6 it's too small
06:44<dreamer>6.5 seems to work-ish but it's a tad too narrow
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07:01<emanuele>ciao
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07:10<tjcarter>dreamer: one thing I appreciate about bullseye and above is that it now includes fontconfig rules by default to make emoji work properly
07:10<dreamer>uhg, so many packages missing from debian repos. I remember why I used dmo
07:10<dreamer>I can't build all of this myself
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07:10<tjcarter>what're you missing?
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07:14<dreamer>kmidimon sonic-visualiser mpc avidemux
07:14<dreamer>and then a whole bunch of libs and dependencies
07:14<dreamer>probably more that I'm forgetting atm
07:15<tjcarter>It might be nice if someone set up a repo that builds those out of just standard Debian packages, hmm
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07:16<dreamer>I already removed some things. this now remains: https://bpa.st/FP4Q
07:16<dreamer>couple of these are in debian. so I'll first have to remove them. and then install again?
07:16<tjcarter>it's what I did
07:16<dreamer>(I tried `apt install --reinstall` a few packages. but most won't do this)
07:17<tjcarter>you could just keep dmo if you really wanted to … it's just hard for us to provide support here
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07:17<dreamer>well atm it's breaking some things too
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07:17<dreamer>some packages it has are outdated
07:18<dreamer>and I need the newer version that's in debian
07:18<bremner>mpc is in debian?
07:18<dreamer>(ie for wine-staging atm)
07:18<dreamer>indeed it is bremner
07:18<dreamer>but several others are not
07:19<dreamer>and in a few cases they are very much outdated
07:19<tjcarter>when faced with stuff like that in sid, I just hold off on upgrading until a dependency resolution path exists
07:19<tjcarter>(sid breaks like that all the time, it's one of the complications with running unstable.)
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07:22<dreamer>oh great, this now tries to remove nearly my entire system .. uhg :(
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07:27<dreamer>seems that's because of librtmp1
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07:38<dreamer>I guess I'll reinstall my entire system after this ..
07:42<tjcarter>dreamer: 😞 There are removal instructions but … they are akin to doing just that
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07:42<tjcarter>dpkg, tell dreamer about dmm remove
07:43<dreamer>oh crap, it installed pulseaudio .. nononononono
07:43*tjcarter waits for the future of pipewire (please don't suck!)
07:44<dreamer>I run it systemwide on my bullseye laptop
07:44<dreamer>but I do _not_ want pulseaudio on my workstation
07:44<dreamer>I had configured apt to never do this. why on earth :/
07:44<tjcarter>you broke lots of things so it's trying to resolve best it can
07:44<dreamer>it was the i386 version even
07:44<tjcarter>…lol
07:47*dreamer really sad
07:47<dreamer>mpd config deleted .. aaargh
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08:07<TobiX>dreamer: avidemux is on flathub
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08:08<TobiX>The biggest problem with dmo IMHO is that it replaces Debian's ffmpeg packages, which almost always creates some problems down the line :/
08:08<dreamer>TobiX: why would I care about flathub?
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08:09*dreamer doesn't touch flatpak with a ten foot pole
08:09<dreamer>neither snap
08:09<dreamer>I'm down to 3 packages I'll manually build now
08:09<TobiX>Well, it creates less problems then dmo :P
08:10<TobiX>But just my personal opinion
08:10<jkc>flatpak is fine, snap is okay though it's not my favorite. The vitriol towards the two of them is similar to the vitriol towards systemd. "It's new, waaaaagh"
08:10<dreamer>appimage is ok
08:10<dreamer>at least you can just download, chmod +x and run
08:11<dreamer>I don't want to run some daemon that manages things (snapd) or just hide whatever is going on (flatpak)
08:11<dreamer>jkc: no, they are terrible UX for me and I do not want to use them
08:11<TobiX>What is flatpak hiding?
08:11<dreamer>anything that it's doing
08:11<dreamer>I don't want these systems
08:12<dreamer>as said, I'd rather have an appimage I can actually download and run
08:12<Tj>the problem will all/many is the security maintenance. If they each package the same library, likely different versions, and those have CVEs, instead of just upgrading the distro library you're now dependent on possibly non-security-aware developers rapidly patching and publishing updates with no clear support path on most cases
08:12<dreamer>not some faux package manager
08:13<Tj>E.g. Ubuntu installs core packages as snaps now, but there is no community support for those, and there is no clear path as to where to get support in many cases
08:13<dreamer>that's really dumb
08:14<dreamer>I purge snapd from any ubuntu systems usually
08:14<dreamer>so this will start breaking things soon
08:15<Tj>A related concern is easily finding the source-code to examine and possibly patch and build yourself; no more "apt-get source <package>; cd <package>; # add debian/patches/xxxx.patch ; fakeroot debian/rules binary"
08:15<Tj>(a few steps left out for brevity!)
08:15<dreamer>hmhm. it completely breaks any kind of sane package management
08:15<dreamer>that's why I prefer to then just manually grab a devs appimage if I want to test their binaries
08:15<dreamer>less messing around with the OS
08:16<dreamer>(sure, maybe not always the safest, but at least it doesn't touch the OS at all)
08:16<TobiX>Tj: Not a problem with flathub AFAICS, every package page has a link to the build repository
08:17<Tj>TobiX: possibly not, but you've then got to learn a different build workflow
08:17<Tj>the entire point of distros was to curate a predictable collection of disparate projects using a single workflow
08:18<tjcarter>TobiX: If I were building dmo, all the libs installed would be under /opt
08:18<tjcarter>in fact, /opt/dmo seems reasonable
08:19<TobiX>tjcarter: Years ago, the dmo way of replacing the ffmpeg was kinda reasonable, since the Debian packages were missing many mainstream codecs, but that hasn't been the case for many stable releases...
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09:14<CyberTailor>how to get rtl8xxxu (rtl8192eu) working in debian-installer?
09:16<blast007>have you tried using one of the installers that include firmware?
09:16<blast007>!firmware images
09:16<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>.
09:16<blast007>include non-free firmware*
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09:18<blast007>the other option is to follow the instructions in the install guide: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s04.en.html
09:18<CyberTailor>blast007: yes. it detects ipw2200 adapter, which seems to be non-functional
09:18<CyberTailor>but not realtek
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09:19<CyberTailor>moreover, my uni has only WPA-EAP
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09:23<CyberTailor>is debian installation possible in my case? like with debootstrap
09:23<blast007>this is Debian 11? the firmware-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso does contain the firmware-realtek package that lists files for the rtl8192eu.
09:24<Tenkawa>CyberTailor: if your machine "is" seeing the adapter you can get the EAP info here: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#WPA-EAP and /usr/share/doc/wpa_supplicant/examples/wpa2-eap-ccmp.conf
09:25<CyberTailor>installer image does not seem to contain lsusb
09:25<CyberTailor>Tenkawa: i need it during the installation
09:26<Tenkawa>you have to use one of the ones with the extra firmware and you have to write that file by hand yourself
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09:29<aloo_shu>without knowing where exactly, I would think the info presented by lsusb ought to be somewhere under /proc, too
09:31<Tenkawa>from what I am reading too. (and someone closer to d-i please check)... the wpasupplicant pkg on the installer may not have enough to connect to eap at all
09:32<Tenkawa>they are a few years old links but multiple links look like EAP isnt compiled into d-i
09:32<Tenkawa>(would need someone to confirm that though)
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09:38<CyberTailor>i tried to download debian-live-11.0.0-i386-xfce+nonfree.iso but checksums didn't match twice
09:39<CyberTailor>does live support offline installation?
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09:48<blast007>no option to use a wired connection?
09:48<blast007>the installer DVDs would be a better option if you want an offline installation
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09:56<aloo_shu>afaik the install media that *need* internet, are netinstall
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10:00<aloo_shu>the checksum mismatch would warrant looking into either way, i.e. checked the wrong way, faulty on server
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11:46<iuri> @page { size: 8.5in 11in; margin: 0.79in } p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 115%; background: transparent } Good afternoon ladies and gentleman. This moment is very important to me. My real name is Iuri, and I feel I must do a brief report to the public. A few years ago I was a standard programmer, then happened I acquired a disease that turn myseff invalid. At hat time I desperate and started to drink alcohol a
11:46<iuri>lot, and this deteriorated my behavior, I became provocative, anti social, and after much alcohol made my speech nonsense. I regret all that, and wich I could back in time and do better, but is not possible. I became more than 2 year (perhaps) away from irc (in treatment) and for sure from the community I love most #debian. I understand I was a m*th*fu*ker at those times. But I quit drinking definitely. People that felt recently and reco
11:46<iuri>gnized me know now my speech is polite and behaved. I already have to live with my disease, now I just want to live the rest of my life, an healthy online life. I hope those of good heart forgive me. Sorry sorry sorry
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11:48<gothenbu1g>wtf
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11:54<Lantizia>hey is there an issue with subscribing to bug reports? I send a subscribe email and get nothing back
11:54<Lantizia>but the the 'buxtehude.debian.org' server received it successfully... status=sent (250 OK id=1mPRn3-0004mm-Os)
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11:56<tjcarter>Lantizia: look for a confirmation email you need to respond to
11:56<Lantizia>that's exactly what I'm not getting
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11:57<tjcarter>hm
11:57<Lantizia>ahh... many maaaaaany minutes later (like a good 20)... it's here
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11:58-!-ach- is now known as ach
11:58<Lantizia>I requested at 4:36pm and got the confirm email back at 4:57pm
11:58<bremner>that sounds like email as usual
11:58<tjcarter>ahha, the S in BTS apparently stands for Snail
11:59<bremner>blame spammers.
11:59<tjcarter>yeah
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11:59<Lantizia>not s-nail ? :P
11:59<tjcarter>I've been getting hammered by some botnet using probably fifty different IP addresses probing for ssh accounts
12:00*Lantizia waits 20 mins more to get the confirm ... confirmed...
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12:00<tjcarter>I finally went and moved my sshd to a random port to cut down on some of that
12:01<FelixActually>I thought there was a room for this, but #debian-packaging (which sounds like it is) only has two people in it, so I'll ask here. Could someone add The Powder Toy to Debian's repositories? It's free software
12:03<bremner>!rfp
12:03<dpkg>Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>.
12:03<bremner>FelixActually: ^
12:04<FelixActually>bremner: I tried that before when I wanted to request Oolite be packaged in Debian, but it confused me too much
12:04<Tenkawa>tjcarter: I learned 15 years or so ago the first thing those botnets do is a signature sweep after nmapping to find ssh specific packets so moving the port does next to nothing
12:05<Tenkawa>it slows them down by a ms or so
12:06<tjcarter>Tenkawa: I'm also setting up port knocking
12:06<Tenkawa>now 'that' is useful
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12:06<Tenkawa>and if you got a fw setup that can create auto rules...
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12:07<tjcarter>I haven't bothered with that in awhile but I just the other day actually made ssh forward and now *sigh*
12:08<tjcarter>In the midst of all of this, I think my mouse (razer) is causing large parts of the USB stack to puke itself.
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12:09<Tenkawa>bummer
12:10<Tenkawa>(bt all the way here)
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12:10<Tenkawa>I need to connect to many machines so I have one of those multi bt mice though
12:11<sussudio>butt mice?
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12:14<Tenkawa>bluetooth
12:15<Tenkawa>I can pair to multiple devices with one mouse
12:15<Tenkawa>costly but worth it
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12:17<sussudio>i use a kvm.
12:20<tjcarter>I think I need a new mouse.
12:21<tjcarter>I have a very nice, very expensive mouse, razer, button-selectable DPI, ambidextrous, larger than average, weighs nothing, corded or not … made by razer, so the kernel driver had to be completely reverse engineered and is less than 100% reliable.
12:22<Tenkawa>sussudio: Only display I have active is my laptops
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12:23<Tenkawa>tjcarter: just logitech branded here... their stuff always has been reliable for me
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12:23<fernie>i switched ssh to ipv6 only, problem seems to be solved, for now :)
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12:25<tjcarter>My ISP doesn't give my an ipv6 address. Still. In 2021.
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12:28<tjcarter>Tenkawa: I'm not sure Logitech makes a reasonable alternative to a Viper Ultimate
12:31*Tenkawa looks at that
12:31<Tenkawa>ahh for gaming?
12:31<Tenkawa>nice
12:32<Tenkawa>I mean they do have this guy:
12:32<Tenkawa>https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/gaming-mice/pro-x-superlight-wireless-mouse.910-005878.html
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12:33<tjcarter>Pro X Superlight might work if it's as ambi as it looks
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12:33<tjcarter>Tenkawa: I don't game that much, I just enjoy a very light mouse and variable DPI
12:34<Tenkawa>nod
12:34<Tenkawa>yeah I don't "pc" game
12:34<CyberTailor>aloo_shu: checksum of iso image downloaded using BitTorrent matches
12:34<CyberTailor>so there's some problem on the http mirror
12:35<aloo_shu>what of the two, torrent or http
12:36<tjcarter>Tenkawa: I do, but all of my games are 10+ years old
12:37-!-user01 [~user01@2600:1702:1f40:6040:2f35:b9cb:18ec:d9] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:37<CyberTailor>also maybe my laptop's RAM has some bad memory sectors
12:38<aloo_shu>CyberTailor: or did you use bittorent only to calculate checksums? if so, then I'd be surprised if this is what imstructions from debian suggested
12:38<tjcarter>Tenkawa: and I really do need an ambi mouse. I don't mouse in my left hand usually.
12:38<tjcarter>I am left-handed, I can mouse in my left hand, and I do often enough. But I don't typically.
12:38<Tenkawa>tjcarter: i'm joining ot
12:39<CyberTailor>aloo_shu: i downloaded ISO using bittorrent and its checksum is good
12:39<CyberTailor>i'll try http download from another machine
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12:42<TobiX>CyberTailor: If your RAM is bad, you should be able to check with memtest86
12:42<aloo_shu>well you said 2 attempts bad checksums, but in any case, you need to be more specific, "I did this, in this way, and that happened". perhaps you are talking about different images and different attempts now, but nobody can tell
12:43<TobiX>CyberTailor: Otherwise, which file downloaded from which mirror was bad? Maybe someone else could verify the file to verify it's not an error on the mirror...
12:43<aloo_shu>in general terms: as many assumptions as you make, you need to test, or you're just getting lost - so, careful with assumptions
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12:45<CyberTailor>mirror is fine
12:46<CyberTailor>looks like bad memory indeed
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12:50<spawacz>Is that a proper way to glob everything except files ending with cpp and h? *[^cpp\|h]
12:52<Habbie>i don't think globs do 'except'
12:52<Habbie>but there are variants of globs
12:52<Habbie>for which command is this?
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12:54<CyberTailor>spawacz: do a loop instead
12:55<TobiX>spawacz: zsh's globbing can do this, but POSIX glob can't AFAIK
12:56<spawacz>that's so weird.
12:56<spawacz>ls *[^cpp\|h] shows siddferent than echo ls *[^cpp\|h]
12:56<spawacz>than echo *[^cpp\|h]
12:56<Habbie>try ls -d
12:56<spawacz>using the glob with echo prints .bmp files too
12:56<Habbie>it should be closer
12:56<spawacz>with ls it prints only h and cpp, what sorcery
12:57<Habbie>oh, that's not the difference i had in mind
12:57<Habbie>it's unexpected for 'ls' to print -less- than 'echo ls' here
12:57<spawacz>No, I'm wrong
12:57<spawacz>something is fishy
12:58<spawacz>both print wrong results xD
12:58<Habbie>well, not wrong, but not what you wanted
12:58<spawacz>i need to fish out only .cpp and .h files
12:58<spawacz>okay i will do it with find
12:58<Habbie>find is best for this, yes
12:59<Habbie>because it can do negation
12:59<spawacz>find -maxdepth 1 -name \*cpp -or -name \*h
12:59<TobiX>spawacz: In zsh it's `^*.(cpp|h)`
12:59<Habbie>did you mean '-name *.cpp -or name *.h' ?
12:59<spawacz>find -maxdepth 1 -not -name \*cpp -and -not -name \*h
13:00<spawacz>that filtered out the cpp and h
13:00<Habbie>it also filters out blacpp
13:00<Habbie>not just bla.cpp
13:00<Habbie>in case you care
13:00<spawacz>true
13:00<spawacz>thanks
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13:24<CyberTailor>spawacz: don't do `ls *[^cpp\|h]`
13:24<CyberTailor>echo *[^cpp\|h]
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13:38<Sqrt{not}>CyberTailor, definitely run memtest86. do you really have an i386 machine?
13:39<CyberTailor>yes (it's a really old laptop that i use as a thin client)
13:40<sussudio>i have a full size 80386 board somewhere. it doesn't fit into any case.
13:40<Sqrt{not}>OK, cool :) I have a couple old machines, but I think you need 586 or better for debian, just fyi.
13:41<sussudio>i wasn't going to try to run linux on a 20mhz machine.
13:41<CyberTailor>alpine linux was perfect for this laptop as long as i didn't need a SIP softphone
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13:48<twb>Why don't I have /bin/sha3sum?
13:49<bremner>it's in libdigest-sha3-perl
13:49<twb>ugh
13:49<twb>I guess coreutils is just slow to adopt it
13:50<twb>I'll continue using BLAKE2 for now
13:51<twb>...and busybox has sha3sum but not b2sum
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14:06<bremner>hmm. htop shows dpkg process in D state, but iotop is not showing any actual reads/writes. It shows 99% of IO, but 99% of 0
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14:21<spawacz>I can't convert ISO-8859 to utf8 using iconv because one letter there is an german o with dots. When i change it into normal "o" it works. What can i do to convert it without this modification?
14:22<bremner>is it really valid 8859-1?
14:22<twb>spawacz: ISO-8859-1 ?
14:22<spawacz>https://svn.code.sf.net/p/bmfont/code/trunk/source/resource.rc
14:23<spawacz>iconv: illegal input sequence at position 4977
14:23<spawacz>ooo
14:23<spawacz>it worked with -f ISO-8859-1
14:23<twb>curl -s https://svn.code.sf.net/p/bmfont/code/trunk/source/resource.rc | iconv --from ISO-8859-1 --to UTF-8
14:23<spawacz>it didnt without the -1 suffix... thanks
14:23<twb>Works for me
14:23<spawacz>thanks!
14:24<spawacz>"file" said resource.rc: C source, ISO-8859 text, with CRLF line terminators
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14:25<Habbie>i wonder what iconv even thinks 'ISO-8859' means
14:26<spawacz>it says it does not recognize it
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14:27<twb>spawacz: file cannot tell WHICH ISO-8859 encoding is used
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15:33<firdaus>please help
15:34<blast007>with what?
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15:34<blast007>k
15:34<blast007>!next
15:34<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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15:42<somiaj>alien adbuction
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15:47<twb>Long ago, LANGUAGE=en:zh:ja was a thing. Where is that documented?
15:47<twb>I have a vague feeling it was maybe an Ubuntuism
15:47<twb>It's mentioned in /etc/init.d/gdm3
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15:48<Tenkawa>twb: now you just use dpkg-reconfigure locales
15:48<Tenkawa>and set your language (unless you only want to do it for one user)
15:49<Tenkawa>then you need to put it in your user login scripts
15:49<Tenkawa>ie: LANG=en_US.UTF-8
15:49<twb>Tenkawa: I am writing preseed for that. I wish to support multiple languages at once.
15:49<Tenkawa>ah just a sec
15:50<twb>It's not mentioned in locale(1) or locale(5)
15:50<somiaj>what is the goal here, to build all the different locales?
15:51<twb>Really I just wanted to know what it looked like when people told the desktop "I speak the following languages" instead of just one
15:51<twb>Which I'd then pull apart and reassemble into preseed
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15:56<somiaj>it appears that LANGUAGE enviroment variable provides the order to look for translations, at least according to https://www.baeldung.com/linux/locale-environment-variables
15:56<twb>Maybe instead of that I should just ask the build system's debconf, instead of asking the user's sh environment
15:56<somiaj>so it will take priority of all other settings, and will look for translations in order, so if a translation in the first language isn't found, it will then check the second and so on
15:57<twb>somiaj: right
15:57<twb>but where is it documented properly
15:57<somiaj>but I do agree it isn't documented, but locale still outputs it, guess you'll have to find an app that has some locales but not others and see if it works.
15:57<twb>somiaj: like, in a manpage and not some rando's web blog
15:58<somiaj>wonder if it is more a gettext thing and not a locale thing
15:58<twb>mm
15:58<twb>Is there a non-horrible way to get debconf selections from python?
15:58<somiaj>nope don't see it documented in the gettext man page
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15:58<twb>ansible is doing "debconf-show locales" and then parsing the horror that emits
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15:59<somiaj>oh the full docuc is info gettext, wonder if maybe locale has other docs
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16:01<somiaj>debian/patches/locale/locale-print-LANGUAGE.diff: New file, so that locale displays the LANGUAGE environment variable when called without argument.
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16:02<somiaj>see that in the changelog, so seems debian is exporting that for convience, but it might not be part of locale, it is probably an enviorment variable used for whatever looks up the translations, not locale itself
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16:03<somiaj>so maybe it is deeper in gettext docs (maybe its info page) or some other tool that is looking up translations
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16:07<twb>Meanwhile, python3 -c debconf is being a bit weird.
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16:30<yang-idle>is it possible to enable "scp" remote access to computer, without shell access? something like doable with "ftp" and user shell /bin/nologin ?
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16:35<tjcarter>yang-idle: yes
16:35<tjcarter>yang-idle: how do you want to decide which users get sftp only?
16:35<tjcarter>usernames? a group?
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16:36<yang-idle>hm, i only need to isolate one user account
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16:37<tjcarter>https://termbin.com/4d4i
16:38<tjcarter>put that into /etc/ssh/sshd_config
16:38<tjcarter>edit the user as desired and restart sshd
16:39<tjcarter>(some openssh whisperer want to chech my work?)
16:39<yang-idle>could you please upload on paste.debian. et ?
16:39<twb>yang-idle: please do not use scp. It has security issues. https://www.openssh.com/txt/release-8.0#line=27
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16:40<tjcarter>yang-idle: termbin is a pastebin
16:40<yang-idle>twb what to use then? currently ftp is used
16:41<tjcarter>yang-idle: the sftp command
16:41<twb>yang-idle: sftp (as tjcarter said), or (much less likely) ftps
16:41<yang-idle>ok
16:41<tjcarter>scp will use the sftp protocol, but it can fall back to an older, less secure thing
16:41<twb>You can also use rsync-over-ssh with their login certificate set to force the "rrsync" command.
16:41<yang-idle>sftp requires sftpd daemon?
16:42<tjcarter>if you look at that termbin, I used internal-sftp
16:42<twb>yang-idle: SFTP is a draft extension to the SSH protocol. It is implemented by OpenSSH, but not GNU SSH, Dropbear, nor TinySSHD
16:43<twb>tjcarter: whta evidence do you have that scp(1) will ever use SFTP?
16:43<another>tjcarter: scp doing sftp was just introduced in the lastest release. it's certainly not in debian stable
16:44<tjcarter>I didn't think to look when that was implemented, sorry
16:45<tjcarter>either way, the older scp protocol really needs to go the way of the dodo
16:45<yang-idle>currently ftp is being accessed from the windows machine
16:46<yang-idle>is there a sftp client for windows which is free to use?
16:46<tjcarter>what're they using for ftp?
16:47<yang-idle>i dont know, some ftp client
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16:47<tjcarter>Some ftp clients are also sftp clients
16:47<somiaj>I velibe winscp is actually using sftp
16:48<tjcarter>if you have it, winscp does use sftp
16:48<Tenkawa>sftp has been in draft status for over 20 years. the latest revision being in 2006.. I doubt we're ever going to see "ratification"
16:49<tjcarter>FileZilla will also do sftp
16:49<Tenkawa>so you might as well get over that part guys
16:49<tjcarter>CyberDuck on Mac
16:49<yang-idle>ok thanks
16:50<tjcarter>Tenkawa: nonetheless, it's implemented widely and if the FSF doesn't wanna use something BSD because it's GNU and GNU has a bad habit of ignoring good ideas they didn't come up with … that's too bad.
16:50<tjcarter>Dropbear not implementing it is understandable
16:50<Tenkawa>tjcarter: nono.. I'm agreeing with you..
16:50<Tenkawa>I think its useful
16:51*tjcarter files a rant about strlcpy/strlcat in /dev/null as usual
16:51<Tenkawa>this whole BSD FSF ETC us vs them mentality on software is a large part of why we have such fragmentation
16:54<tjcarter>yang-idle: the cool thing about termbin.com vs. other pastebins is that you can run a command and | nc termbin.com 9999 to get the output pastebinned
16:54<tjcarter>careful not to post any passwords or information you wouldn't paint on a billboard with that.
16:54<yang-idle>cool
16:55<tjcarter>Linux Mint folks are kind of fond of it, and so am I now.
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16:59<yang-idle>i am having a problem pasting the channel text into a query, to remember. tjcarter, could you please paste me the backlog into a query? i am on mobile.
16:59<tjcarter>the link?
16:59<yang-idle>the whole comments text
16:59<tjcarter>ttps://termbin.com/4d4i
17:00<yang-idle>i mean the #debian text
17:00<tjcarter>I can pastebin the last few minutes of log, sure
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17:00<yang-idle>please paste it into my msg window
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17:02<tjcarter>That will flood me off the network
17:02<yang-idle>ahhh, sorry
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17:04<yang-idle>thank you all, good night
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17:08<Sqrt{not}>!tell yang-idle about irclog
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17:12<mer_>Henlo... Do you happen to know why Debian GNU+Linux shows "sid" on the /etc/os-release file, even tho Debian testing and unstable are two different branches?
17:13<mer_>That question doesn't let me sleep at night
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17:14<tjcarter>mer_: "bookworm/sid". Meaning that it's one or the other.
17:14<tjcarter>during the testing cycle it's kind of hard to know which.
17:14<mooff>mer_: it's something about the fact that the base-files package is released first to sid, then makes its way into testing
17:14<Tech49>Hi everybody. I just noticed after installing Bullseye that once I set the INPUT policy to DROP (iptables) login via TTY and via ssh takes several minutes
17:14<mooff>the two currently have to share the same package
17:15<mer_>ooh, that also explains why when you go from bookworm to sid it keeps basically the same os-release
17:15<Tech49>Does anybody know why this is?
17:15<tjcarter>All things being equal and release critical bugs notwithstanding, bookworm is just sid 10 days ago
17:16<tjcarter>until the freeze…
17:16<tjcarter>(BTW, such questions ought to be asked of #debian-next for the record)
17:16<mer_>Ok, I'll hang out there then, thanks for the answers @tjcarter @mooff
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17:18<mooff>i think more targeted fixes should get fast tracked to testing once a clear fix is available for a problem
17:18<tjcarter>Another user lured to the Dark Side, muahahaha
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17:19<tjcarter>hard to do that by policy
17:19<mooff>mer_: imo, feel free to edit your /etc/os-release to just say "boomworm" :P
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17:20<mooff>good policy evolves
17:22<Tech49>Nobody has the same issue?
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17:33<Sqrt{not}>Tech49, do you see anything interesting in the logs or journalctl?
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17:41<Tech49>Sqrt{not}, I'll have a look
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17:45<Tech49>Sqrt{not}, it
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17:45<Tech49>'s fixed
17:46<Sqrt{not}>Tech49, OK! good job :)
17:46<Tech49>I forgot to allow lo to bypass the DROP policy
17:46<Tech49>Making interprocess communication a bit 'difficult' I think
17:47<Tech49>Thanks for replying ; )
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18:17<aindilis>I just dist-upgraded to bullseye, and now my xterm (w/ emacs -nw) does not properly redraw/refresh/update all the time, any ideas?
18:18<aindilis>I have to do C-g to get it to refresh like almost every couple seconds
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19:27<tjcarter>,v weechat
19:27<judd>Package: weechat on amd64 -- stretch: 1.6-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 2.3-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.3-1; buster-backports: 2.8-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 3.0-1; bookworm: 3.0.1-1; sid: 3.2.1-1
19:28<tjcarter>we really kinda need patches for bullseye, there's open CVEs that can be exploited remotely
19:28<somiaj>what does the tracker say?
19:29<tjcarter>4 security issues in stretch and buster, 1 each in bullseye and bookworm, all high
19:30<somiaj>Guess it doesn't say much more than 'medium', maybe security team will get a patch backported
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19:31<tjcarter>flashcode said he would backport patches
19:31<somiaj>don't see anything on the mailing list either, so might just have to wait.
19:31<tjcarter>all the way back to 2.3 actually
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19:32<somiaj>Yea, they have the issue still open on the tracker, so I assume they will fix it once they get a patch (and maybe tested)
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19:36<tjcarter>priority might be a little lower because weechat provides their own debian packages that are up to date
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19:36<tjcarter>weechat affects little else, so I don't object to recommending it
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19:41<alex11>is pipewire ever likely to be backported?
19:41<tjcarter>alex11: pipewire exists in bullseye, but it's an old version
19:41<Guest7080>hi. how do I enable two finger tap to right click?
19:41<alex11>yes, hence my question
19:41<tjcarter>alex11: maybe, but I don't think it will be YET.
19:42<alex11>i don't know whether it's feasible to backport something like that
19:42<somiaj>though the last irrsi fixed came through proposed-upates as opposed to secuirty, wonder if weechat will go that route..
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19:42<tjcarter>the current version in bookworm and sid still doesn't do the things pipewire is promised to do (replace pulse and jack)
19:42<tjcarter>until it does, I'd say priority is a little low.
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20:10<aloo_shu>would be curious to hear the jack devs' take on 'replaces', jack and e.g. the lv2 plugins are an evolving ecosystem, example: the addition of CV (control voltage) connections to the existing audio- and MIDI ones, so that e.g. the demand for modular synths can be met - jack would have to die, or pipewire, guarantee to keep up with such changes
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20:43<alex11>partially why i asked; i suspected backporting pipewire would affect (numerous?) other packages
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20:46<somiaj> ,checkbackport pipewire
20:46<somiaj> ,check-backport pipewire
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20:48<somiaj>judd: checkbackport pipewire
20:48<judd>Backporting package pipewire in sid→bullseye/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13).
20:50<somiaj>alex11: unsure why that is trigering, debhelper 13 is in bullseye, so that isn't needed
20:50<somiaj>alex11: at least from this standpoint backporting it should be easy, now things that depend on it maybe another question
20:50<alex11>i don't mean as a dependency thing
20:50<alex11>it might be impactical for other reasons
20:51<somiaj>well yea, using it maybe a problem due to things that depend/use it may then also have to be backported (or at least rebuilt to better deal with the newer version)
20:52<somiaj>I'd personally wait until it is a bit more mature in debian, maybe bookworm will eventaully use it as a full replacement
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21:08<c0rnel1us>If ur building from source and using the debian dir, you can change the depends inside the control file. Change it from 13 to 12 and see if it compiles. More than likely you may need to adjust other depends though. Really comes down to what ur trying to do I suppose.
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21:09<c0rnel1us>Normally this is something I would do, if I was trying to build the latest and greatest on say the current stable.
21:12<somiaj>c0rnel1us: in this case it is a issue with the bot, debhelper 13 is in bullseye
21:12<somiaj>c0rnel1us: also installing debhelper from backports is always better, changing the compat level has a high chance of breaking the build, since different compat levels assume different things by default
21:13<c0rnel1us>Like I said. It comes down to what ur trying to accomplish.
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21:14<somiaj>there really isn't a reason to have to change the compat level these days, debhelper is backported resaonbally enough so you can take advatnage of newer compat levels
21:14<c0rnel1us>When buster was still a thing, I just modded the control file in order to install the unstable version of weechat on buster. In that case it was just an adjustment of a few versions.
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21:15<somiaj>again, debhelper was in backports, just install that for the build
21:15<c0rnel1us>Yes you do keep saying that
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21:15<demo>Hey
21:16<bremner>!ask
21:16<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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21:38<_Andrew>Sorry for the dumb question, I googled it but couldn't find any good info. How do I setup evolution/gnome DE to properly follow the labels on my email from my gsuite account? 1) I have a personal account setup via settings -> Online Accounts. That seems to work well, but I noticed that it doesn't download all the email. I have to click on the label and then it downloads the email... 2) I have my work gmail setup via SMTP / POP. That downloads all th
21:38<_Andrew>email but everything ends up in "On This Computer" rather than an account specific folder. Everything ends up in "inbox" including emails I sent out. Any sort of guide would be appreciated.
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22:01<crawler_>_Andrew I am not that much familiar with evolution. What I know for sure that if I need to use Gmail labels with thunderbird, I have to use IMAP not POP
22:02<raven523>there's really no reason top use pop if you have imap available
22:03<somiaj>yea, it might be that you can't get that metadata with just downloading the email over pop
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22:03<raven523>pop is a much simpler and less capable protocol
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22:09<new>Hello, I'm new to IRC. Can you guys see this message?
22:10<cc>yes
22:10<new>Oh cool!
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22:11<new>I'm currently using Emacs ERC cleint which defaults to freenode... But is OFTC the new open source IRC standard?
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22:11<new>If that makes sense...
22:11<somiaj>I am not sure what you mean by IRC standard? oftc is not new and has been the irc network for Debian some various other projects
22:12<somiaj>!libera.chat
22:12<somiaj>!libera
22:12<dpkg>Libera.Chat is an IRC network founded by ex <freenode> staff in May 2021 following a break with freenode's new direction. #debian on Libera is a support channel for Debian users along with offical channels on <oftc>. See also <debian irc>
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22:12<new>Sorry my previous staement was poorly worded
22:12<aloo_shu>what I'm missing, is a client that can interpret gmail's flat 'All' archive + tags concept, and reconstitute a folder-type view locally, instead of using gmail's imap folder representation and fetching duplicates, or moving instead of re-tagging. offlineimap is already going half the way
22:12<somiaj>Although talking about the whole change is off topic here, a lot of freenode moved to libera
22:12<new>Ohhh I see I see thanks for the explanation
22:12<somiaj>!oftc
22:12<dpkg>OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. http://www.oftc.net/ See also <debian irc>, <oftc move> and <fact sharing>.
22:13<new>So this is the place where the majority of Debian-based chats take place then?
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22:13<somiaj>!debian irc
22:13<dpkg>The offical Debian IRC network is OFTC (irc.oftc.net). Please connect to OFTC for debian support and development communities. See https://wiki.debian.org/IRC for a list of channels. See also <oftc>, <oftc move>, and <libera>.
22:14<somiaj>new: yes, this is the network with the majority of debian based channels.
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22:14<new>Cool cool
22:15<new>Anything all ya'll are talking about right now?
22:16<somiaj>This is a support channel, so chat happens when someone comes in with a question/issue with debian stable.
22:16<new>Ohhh I see I see my apologies
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22:24<_Andrew>ah... omg... I must have set it up wrong. Thanks for the tips guys. It's so obvious, I was using the auto setup wizard and I don't think it's done it right
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 13 00:00:36 2021