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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-13

---Logopened Mon Sep 13 00:00:36 2021
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@troude.pet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@troude.pet] has joined #debian
00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:02-!-lupinedk [~lupine@85.27.192.184] has joined #debian
00:02-!-lupinedk is "lupine" on #debian #bitlbee
00:06-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has left #debian [Disconnected: Received SIGTERM]
00:06-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
00:06-!-mimi89999 is "mimi89999" on #debian #debian-live #debian-next #fdroid #debian-voip #postmarketos-devel
00:09-!-hele [~hele@88-115-23-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:12-!-_enigma9o7_ [~craig@b.ovpn.sr.sonic.net] has joined #debian
00:12-!-_enigma9o7_ is "realname" on #debian
00:12-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:12-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
00:14-!-onionadmn [~onionadmn@106.201.109.215] has joined #debian
00:14-!-onionadmn is "Onions" on #debian
00:18-!-enigma [~craig@a.ovpn.sr.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:19-!-Xaldafax [~xaldafax@cpe-198-72-160-101.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Bye...]
00:20-!-zeraphy [~zeraphy@187.62.206.206] has joined #debian
00:20-!-zeraphy is "Daniel" on #debian-mg #debian
00:24-!-danieltolentino [~zeraphy@187.62.206.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:28-!-crydots31 [~crydotsna@tmo-117-142.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #debian
00:28-!-crydots31 is "crydotsnake_" on #debian
00:28-!-crydotsnake_ [~crydotsna@149.172.49.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:37-!-computerworm110 [~computerw@xpress10873.htc.net] has joined #debian
00:37-!-computerworm110 is "computerworm110" on #debian
00:39-!-quarkyalice [~quarkyali@0002bad9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:41<computerworm110>Hello, can anyone tell me how to configure Akonadi to use PostgreSQL on Debian Buster? I did Google search, and most of the info seems to be distro-specific for other distros or is just outdated.
00:45-!-zeraphy [~zeraphy@187.62.206.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:48-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:48-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
00:50-!-chuangzh1 [~chuangzhu@27.39.221.241] has joined #debian
00:50-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
00:50-!-chuangzhu [~chuangzhu@0002c2e8.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:52-!-Trieste [~T@0002b09a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:54-!-amcclure [anton@tloks.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 1003] by debhelper
00:58-!-crydotsnake_ [~crydotsna@tmo-097-61.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #debian
00:58-!-crydotsnake_ is "crydotsnake_" on #debian
00:59-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:59-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #vboxger #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
01:00-!-crydots31 [~crydotsna@tmo-117-142.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:01-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
01:01-!-crydots79 [~crydotsna@tmo-099-68.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #debian
01:01-!-crydots79 is "crydotsnake_" on #debian
01:03-!-amcclure [anton@tloks.com] has joined #debian
01:03-!-amcclure is "weechat" on #debian
01:04-!-r3m [~launch@00019607.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.3-dev]
01:06-!-crydotsnake_ [~crydotsna@tmo-097-61.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:06-!-jpw [~jpw@cpc146708-rdng28-2-0-cust213.15-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
01:06-!-jpw is "..." on #debian-offtopic #debian
01:12-!-arnold_oree [~arnoldore@146.50.93.209.dyn.plus.net] has joined #debian
01:12-!-arnold_oree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
01:14-!-endstille [~Miranda@2a00:6020:1dfe:7100:e47d:ac90:40e0:ff1] has joined #debian
01:14-!-endstille is "marc.brinkmann@gmail.com" on #debian
01:15-!-crydots79 [~crydotsna@tmo-099-68.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:16-!-quarkyalice [~quarkyali@0002bad9.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:16-!-quarkyalice is "realname" on #postmarketos #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos-mainline #postmarketos-porting #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-lowlevel #asahi #asahi-dev #asahi-gpu #asahi-re #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #alpine-docs #alpine-offtopic #debian #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #quarky #lain #moocows #oftc
01:18-!-RedSoxFan07 [~Thunderbi@d-159-250-218-50.ct.cpe.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Quit: RedSoxFan07]
01:19-!-chuangzhu [~chuangzhu@0002c2e8.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:19-!-chuangzhu is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
01:19-!-endstille [~Miranda@2a00:6020:1dfe:7100:e47d:ac90:40e0:ff1] has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. https://miranda-ng.org/]
01:20-!-chuangzh1 [~chuangzhu@27.39.221.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:21-!-pyre [~pyre@crimeboss.nillas-power.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in]
01:22-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:5429:eb31:3301:2141] has joined #debian
01:22-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
01:23-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@0002a646.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:23-!-crydotsnake_ [~crydotsna@2a01:598:89f5:bd36:2900:3ff1:42a7:f09b] has joined #debian
01:23-!-crydotsnake_ is "crydotsnake_" on #debian
01:27-!-heiserhorn [~heiserhor@185.159.157.44] has quit [Quit: heiserhorn]
01:30-!-hbautista [~hbautista@189.129.75.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:32-!-awal1 [~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-23-70-55-160-158.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
01:32-!-awal1 is "realname" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-next #debian
01:34-!-chuangzh1 [~chuangzhu@27.39.221.241] has joined #debian
01:34-!-chuangzh1 is "Chuang Zhu" on #ustclug #debian
01:35-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:35-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
01:36-!-chuangzhu [~chuangzhu@0002c2e8.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:36-!-ibx2496 [~FE865@92.60.40.248] has joined #debian
01:36-!-ibx2496 is "realname" on #debian @#linuxmint #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #postmarketos #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos-offtopic
01:37-!-quarkyalice [~quarkyali@0002bad9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:37-!-pyre [~pyre@crimeboss.nillas-power.com] has joined #debian
01:37-!-pyre is "pyre" on #debian #tor
01:40-!-pyre [~pyre@crimeboss.nillas-power.com] has quit []
01:57-!-strelnikov [~strelniko@h-98-128-172-245.A785.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit []
01:57-!-s0berage [~s0berage@135-23-213-77.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:57-!-s0berage [~s0berage@135-23-213-77.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #debian
01:57-!-s0berage is "realname" on #ceph #debian #freedombox #llvm #oftc #Qubes_OS #radeon #tor-bots #virt #retroshare @#retroshare-community @#retroshare-project @#dragonwarez @#ftpwarez @#cloverOS
01:58-!-xnaas is now known as Guest7106
01:58-!-xnaas [~xnaas@0002a3ab.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:58-!-xnaas is "xnaas" on #debian
01:59-!-erle- [~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:bd01:6797:3430:5c50] has joined #debian
01:59-!-erle- is "Stephan" on #debian-next @#antitux #debian #debian-raspberrypi
02:03-!-__Andrew [~andrew@static-146-88-50-190.violin.co.th] has joined #debian
02:03-!-__Andrew is "realname" on #debian
02:03-!-Guest7106 [~xnaas@0002a3ab.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:04-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@31.220.5.250] has joined #debian
02:04-!-hyiltiz is "Flash Jones" on #freedombox #biz #virt #debian-next @#fishing #debian
02:09-!-gtristan [~tristan@223.38.8.158] has joined #debian
02:09-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
02:09-!-_Andrew [~andrew@0002b693.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:10-!-resmo_ [~resmo@0001265c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:11-!-resmo_ [~resmo@0001265c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:11-!-resmo_ is "realname" on #debian
02:11-!-erle64- [~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:bd01:6797:3430:5c50] has joined #debian
02:11-!-erle64- is "Stephan" on #debian-next #antitux #debian #debian-raspberrypi
02:11-!-erle64- [~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:bd01:6797:3430:5c50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:12-!-gdb [~cbell@136.32.21.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:13-!-thiras [~thiras@176.54.184.151] has joined #debian
02:13-!-thiras is "Ant Somers" on #debian #tor
02:14-!-FH_thecat [~FH_thecat@75.11.25.212.ftth.as8758.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:15-!-Jan\ [~kvirc@198.12.68.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:16-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has quit []
02:16-!-gdb [~cbell@136.32.21.117] has joined #debian
02:16-!-gdb is "Christofer C. Bell" on #debian
02:16-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has joined #debian
02:16-!-seednode6 is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
02:16-!-Jan\ [~kvirc@198.12.68.162] has joined #debian
02:16-!-Jan\ is "KVIrc 5.0.1 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
02:20-!-Inepu [~mith@137-217-234-46.4all.it] has joined #debian
02:20-!-Inepu is "realname" on #debian
02:21-!-_Matth_ [~Matth@s203.ALPHA-e18.vectant.ne.jp] has joined #debian
02:21-!-_Matth_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
02:22-!-n_ [~n@2001:1970:4000:70:1dc4:2312:fa1f:a9f5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:23-!-r3m [~launch@2600:3c04::f03c:92ff:fe5e:173] has joined #debian
02:23-!-r3m is "launch" on #debian #linode #bitlbee
02:23-!-r3m [~launch@00019607.user.oftc.net] has quit []
02:24-!-r3m [~launch@2600:3c04::f03c:92ff:fe5e:173] has joined #debian
02:24-!-r3m is "launch" on #debian #linode #bitlbee
02:24-!-milkt [~debian@0002812a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:24-!-___Andrew [~andrew@184.82.111.251] has joined #debian
02:24-!-___Andrew is "realname" on #debian
02:29-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@0002a646.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:30-!-texou [~jp@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:31-!-__Andrew [~andrew@static-146-88-50-190.violin.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:32-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:34-!-vicky [uid270243@id-270243.lymington.irccloud.com] has joined #debian
02:34-!-vicky is "vicky" on #ext4 #debian
02:37-!-ibx2496 [~FE865@92.60.40.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:39-!-milkt [~debian@0002812a.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:39-!-milkt is "debian" on #fdroid #tor #debian-games #debian-next #debian
02:41-!-iheuko39 [~iheuko39@2400:2200:6d3:9c13:90d2:c03b:4cfc:4207] has joined #debian
02:41-!-iheuko39 is "iheuko39" on #debian
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02:43-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:53-!-abdulocracy [~meabduloc@83.5.150.199.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has joined #debian
02:53-!-abdulocracy is "@me:abdulocra.cy" on #debian
02:58-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2]
02:59-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:59-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #kvm #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
03:01-!-mezzo [~mezzo@176-141-171-88.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
03:01-!-mezzo is "mezzo" on #debian @#lichess #yuming
03:02-!-NTduck [~NTduck@62.157.166.162] has joined #debian
03:02-!-NTduck is "dduck" on #debian
03:04-!-Slashman [~Slash@cosium-fo-152-18.fib.nerim.net] has joined #debian
03:04-!-Slashman is "Slash" on #debian
03:04-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:04-!-pax [~Thunderbi@host-79-50-47-99.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
03:04-!-pax is "pax" on #debian
03:09-!-m0rbidbird [~morbidgir@89.45.7.206] has joined #debian
03:09-!-m0rbidbird is "realname" on #openttd #C #debian #debian-next #llvm
03:10-!-tagomago [~tagomago@87.125.215.143] has joined #debian
03:10-!-tagomago is "Tagomago" on #debian
03:10-!-Maduro52 [~4564asdf6@159.147.148.119] has joined #debian
03:10-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
03:10-!-richardm75 [~richardm7@2600:8801:c507:2900:306d:fdb6:de77:27c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:11<at0m>computerworm110: not sure, but on this same network there's also #debian-kde
03:11-!-quazgar [~quazgar@p200300cf0735750089b9441d52cd24be.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:11-!-quazgar is "quazgar" on #debian-kde #debian
03:14-!-Strelnikov [~strelniko@h-98-128-172-245.A785.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
03:14-!-Strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #dfri_se #debian #tor #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-project #tor-relays
03:15-!-TheRuralJuror [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
03:15-!-TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian.or.at #security #debian-next #debian
03:15-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc14:5d00:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374] has joined #debian
03:15-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #oolite-dev #oftc #freedesktop #C #s6 #radeon #oolite #openstreetmap #debian-xfce #debian
03:16-!-m0rbidbird [~morbidgir@89.45.7.206] has quit []
03:16-!-ao2 [~ao2@87.13.216.39] has joined #debian
03:16-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #linux-media #gstreamer #vcs-home #debian #cell
03:17-!-pax [~Thunderbi@host-79-50-47-99.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: pax]
03:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 1013] by debhelper
03:19-!-anibic [~user@0BGAAD7Z3.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:19-!-anibic is "user" on #debian
03:19-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@31.220.5.250] has joined #debian
03:19-!-hyiltiz is "Flash Jones" on #freedombox #biz #virt #debian-next @#fishing #debian
03:19-!-mzajc [~mzajc@00028fd5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in]
03:19<anibic>Do i get support for ubuntu here ?
03:20-!-skitt [~skitt@82-65-25-201.subs.proxad.net] has joined #debian
03:20-!-skitt is "realname" on #debian
03:23<cc>!ubuntu
03:23<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on irc.libera.chat instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
03:24-!-Rizzer [~Drew@dynamic-adsl-78-14-112-22.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #debian
03:24-!-Rizzer is "realname" on #debian #debian-ci
03:25-!-u^A|debian [~allberto@92.223.85.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:25-!-Operius [~quassel@94-210-35-58.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
03:25-!-Operius is "Chris,,," on #debian
03:26-!-BenNZ [~Ben@203.96.218.156] has joined #debian
03:26-!-BenNZ is "Ben" on #vbox #debian #debian-next
03:34-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:34-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
03:36-!-Operius [~quassel@94-210-35-58.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
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03:37-!-texou [~jp@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:37-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #hyprateam #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y
03:38-!-vv221[BI] [~vv221BI]@2a01cb0881af0b00bab4f712010c0308.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
03:38-!-vv221[BI] is "vv221[BI]" on #debian
03:40-!-endstille [~Miranda@mail02.grolman-group.com] has joined #debian
03:40-!-endstille is "marc.brinkmann@gmail.com" on #debian
03:41-!-crydotsnake_ [~crydotsna@2a01:598:89f5:bd36:2900:3ff1:42a7:f09b] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:42-!-__Andrew [~andrew@static-146-88-50-190.violin.co.th] has joined #debian
03:42-!-__Andrew is "realname" on #debian
03:43-!-Roman3349 [~Thunderbi@host-89-203-169-159.ip.topnet.cz] has joined #debian
03:43-!-Roman3349 is "Roman3349" on #debian-sponsors #packaging #debian
03:47-!-JCWasmx86 [~JCWasmx86@p57a4c118.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:47-!-JCWasmx86 is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
03:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 1021] by debhelper
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03:51-!-Highty [~fleroux@i15-les01-ntr-62-34-240-178.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
03:51-!-Highty is "fleroux" on #debian
03:51-!-Highty [~fleroux@i15-les01-ntr-62-34-240-178.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has left #debian []
03:57-!-crydotsnake_ [~crydotsna@2a01:598:89f6:d649:e4bd:18b9:8197:db6d] has joined #debian
03:57-!-crydotsnake_ is "crydotsnake_" on #debian
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04:03-!-jipege4 [~quassel@lfbn-tou-1-371-45.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
04:03-!-jipege4 is "jipege" on #debian
04:04-!-milkt_ [~debian@2KHAAB84L.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:04-!-milkt_ is "debian" on #fdroid #tor #debian-next #debian
04:04-!-BCMM [~BCMM@00026736.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:04-!-BCMM is "BCMM" on #debian-offtopic #radeon #oftc #linux #debian-kde #debian #debian-next
04:04-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz...]
04:06-!-hendursa1 [~weechat@9J5AAEPTR.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:06-!-hendursa1 is "weechat" on #consfigurator #wayland #robigalia #debian #postmarketos #kernelnewbies
04:06-!-u^A|debian [~allberto@92.223.85.233] has joined #debian
04:06-!-u^A|debian is "marcellini168" on #debian #linuxhelp
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04:13<grummund>Is there a command line utility that will get a webpage as formatted text? (not html)
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04:14<grummund>so far i do this: lynx --dump http://192.168.1.210 | html2text | grep -v ^\$
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04:15<jm_>lynx -dump shows formatted page, why html2text?
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04:17<PaddyF>hello, i need a bit of advice. i plan to install mediawiki locally. the requirements say php7.4.9 and apt-cache says php7.4+76, what does the "+76" mean?
04:17<grummund>'lynx -dump' gets a bunch of html here.
04:18<grummund>https://paste.debian.net/1211550/
04:19<jm_>PaddyF: as in not using mediawiki package?
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04:20<grawity>grummund: that actually sounds like the server isn't sending the right Content-Type for lynx to recognize the page as HTML
04:20<grawity>(lynx can be picky about that)
04:20<PaddyF>jm_: oh yes, its packaged. how cool
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04:20<grawity>grummund: but overall yes, `lynx -dump` or `elinks -dump` or `w3m -dump` should indeed give you the rendered text, not raw HTML
04:21<grawity>grummund: not entirely sure about the first two, but w3m allows forcing the type with the `-T` option, e.g. `w3m -T text/html -dump https://foo`
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04:22<crawler_>PaddyF the package you refered to is a dependency package, it is used to install the default package of php which is `php7.4`
04:22<crawler_>76 number is an internal version numbering , and is not related to php version
04:22<crawler_>php7.4 provides version 7.4.21
04:23<PaddyF>super, just 1 more little thing: how did you find out that php7.4 provides 7.4.21?
04:24<jm_>php7.4 has this field set -- Version: 7.4.21-1+deb11u1
04:24<crawler_>searching in debian packages repository on the web https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/php
04:24<crawler_>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/php7.4
04:24<jm_>apt-cache show shows it
04:24<PaddyF>i am not reading properly then
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04:24<jm_>as does apt-cache policy
04:24<crawler_>and dpkg bot here does that too
04:24<crawler_>,v php7.4
04:24<judd>Package: php7.4 on amd64 -- bookworm: 7.4.21-1+deb11u1; bullseye: 7.4.21-1+deb11u1; sid: 7.4.21-1+deb11u1
04:25<PaddyF>ah, "policy" not package info
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04:28<crawler_>PaddyF please note jm_ remark above, Debian has a packaged mediawiki, apt will handle all its needed dependencies, including php
04:29<grummund>grawity: the server is sending empty header afaict, and 'w3m -dump -T text/html' still shows the raw html (or xml or whatever it is).
04:29<grummund>grawity: i can live with it though.
04:29<PaddyF>crawler_: yes, i see now it even pulls in the required sql server
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05:09<buhtz>Hello together. I have questions about the mailinglist software MHonArc hosted on list.debian.org. But I could not find a "list" about it or kind of an debian-infrastructure-list where I can ask.
05:13<buhtz>The link on the bottom of the https://lists.debian.org points me to http://www.mhonarc.org/. The project looks dead because last entry in changelog was 2014. The savannah activities confirm that. Maybe I missed something? Is there another younger repo somewhere?
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05:19<Unit193>buhtz: Perhaps see https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ and https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster ?
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07:29<sysrq_>how to use colemak keyboard layout in debian installer?
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07:50-!-TomyWork [~tomy@p200300e80f06af004dc9a0e30ef83b35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
07:50-!-TomyWork is "realname" on #debian #vbox
07:51-!-NomadJim__ [~Jim@2001:5b0:2d2a:b058:21b5:bf3d:f2b7:bb6f] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:52-!-NomadJim__ [~Jim@2001:5b0:2d2a:b058:21b5:bf3d:f2b7:bb6f] has joined #debian
07:52-!-NomadJim__ is "Nomad" on #debian #linode
07:56-!-Booda [~Booda@0BGAAD759.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Booda]
07:58-!-OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@0002bf4f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:58-!-OsteHovel is "realname" on #debian #openttd
08:01-!-lucasmsoares96 [~lucas@187.0.178.98] has joined #debian
08:01-!-lucasmsoares96 is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
08:03-!-Booda [~Booda@7YZAAC0KC.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:03-!-Booda is "user" on #tor #debian
08:03-!-Booda [~Booda@7YZAAC0KC.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:06-!-Booda [~Booda@7YZAAC0KI.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:06-!-Booda is "user" on #tor #debian
08:06-!-Booda [~Booda@7YZAAC0KI.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:07-!-HAL_6900 [~void@186.212.158.65] has joined #debian
08:07-!-HAL_6900 is "VOID" on #debian
08:07-!-Boooda [~Booda@7YZAAC0KJ.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:07-!-Boooda is "user" on #tor #debian
08:08-!-erle- [~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:bd01:6797:3430:5c50] has quit []
08:09-!-thiras [~thiras@176.54.184.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:09-!-Booda [~user@9J5AAEPZV.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:09-!-Booda is "purple" on #debian #tor
08:10-!-Boooda [~Booda@7YZAAC0KJ.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
08:12-!-teepee [~teepee@4G4AADFXY.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:12-!-Boooda [~Booda@4G4AADGVM.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:12-!-Boooda is "user" on #tor #debian
08:13-!-Booda [~user@9J5AAEPZV.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has left #debian []
08:13-!-Boooda [~Booda@4G4AADGVM.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
08:13-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:13-!-aev [~quassel@dsl-hkibng41-567310-185.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
08:13-!-aev is "Aulis Vainionpää" on #debian #oftc #moocows
08:13-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:6f21:cd7f:8207:5c90] has joined #debian
08:13-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #debian #freedombox
08:14-!-ahso [~Thunderbi@2601:404:c900:428:253f:f7a1:40c1:ec0d] has joined #debian
08:14-!-ahso is "ahso" on #debian-next #debian #debian-wsl
08:16-!-ChromaCat248 [~ChromaCat@0002b9d5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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08:22-!-bullgard4 [~bullgard4@dslb-094-223-005-192.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit []
08:23-!-ymusachio [~ymusachio@179.34.25.95] has joined #debian
08:23-!-ymusachio is "Yuri Musachio" on #debian
08:24-!-Booda [~user@7YZAAC0KW.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:24-!-Booda is "purple" on #debian #tor
08:25-!-Emrederseniz [~Emre@78.189.194.21] has joined #debian
08:25-!-Emrederseniz is "purple" on #debian
08:25-!-paktosan [~quassel@x8d1e1e03.agdsn.tu-dresden.de] has joined #debian
08:25-!-paktosan is "Julian F\xF6lsch" on #ovirt #ceph #debian #oftc
08:26-!-Booda [~user@7YZAAC0KW.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has left #debian []
08:27-!-quazgar [~quazgar@p200300cf0735750089b9441d52cd24be.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:38-!-arnoldoree [~arnoldore@146.50.93.209.dyn.plus.net] has joined #debian
08:38-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
08:38-!-wnklmnn [~wnklmnn@2a02:908:4e2:9740:f5d9:8ba3:984a:65dd] has joined #debian
08:38-!-wnklmnn is "realname" on #debian
08:41-!-leonardorocha [~leonardo@2804:14d:882:a24c:838b:6a3f:c8d9:66b0] has joined #debian
08:41-!-leonardorocha is "realname" on #debian
08:44-!-maoma [~Maoma@0002a17a.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:44-!-maoma is "realname" on #debian
08:46-!-anibic [~user@4G4AADGWA.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:46-!-anibic is "user" on #debian
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08:47-!-philip_ [~philip@2601:249:1100:81e:30ac:1efb:e879:280a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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08:48-!-pzeek [~quassel@lfbn-ren-1-2042-119.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
08:48-!-pzeek is "Pzeek" on #debian
08:50-!-bertbob [~bertbob@00012c9b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:53-!-pzeek [~quassel@lfbn-ren-1-2042-119.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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08:56-!-erentar3 [~MFMRx@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
08:56-!-yuqi [~yuqi@115.194.187.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:56-!-erentar [~MFMRx@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be] has joined #debian
08:56-!-erentar is "MFMRx" on #debian #ceph-devel #ceph #alpine-linux
08:56-!-yuqi [~yuqi@115.194.187.191] has joined #debian
08:56-!-yuqi is "yuqi" on #debian #linux
08:58-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:58-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
08:58-!-lucasmsoares96 [~lucas@187.0.178.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:58-!-yuqi [~yuqi@115.194.187.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:00-!-yumkam [~yumkam@000218ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:00-!-BrianG61UK_ [~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:28d7:99e8:bb2b:6b2e] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:01-!-gelignite [~gelignite@55d46203.access.ecotel.net] has joined #debian
09:01-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #debian #llvm #openttd
09:01-!-eroux [~eroux@0002c23f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:01-!-eroux is "Eugéne Roux" on #linux-storage #oftc
09:01-!-eroux [~eroux@0002c23f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:02-!-bertbob [~bertbob@67-2-77-156.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #debian
09:02-!-bertbob is "Bert" on #debian #debian-next
09:04-!-yumkam [~yumkam@000218ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:04-!-yumkam is "Yuriy M. Kaminskiy" on #debian #debian-qemu
09:04-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@0002a646.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:05-!-otisolsen70 [~otisolsen@xd4ed80b5.cust.hiper.dk] has quit []
09:06-!-gabx1 [~Gabx@7YZAAC0LP.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:06-!-gabx1 is "Gabx" on #debian #i2p #Qubes_OS #retroshare #security #tor
09:09-!-spawacz1 [~tgq@107.ip-149-202-63.eu] has quit []
09:09-!-spawacz [~tgq@107.ip-149-202-63.eu] has joined #debian
09:09-!-spawacz is "tgq" on #linode #tor #debian-llvm #llvm #debian-qemu #debian
09:09-!-wololoer [~user@00022ff6.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:09-!-wololoer is "user" on #pipewire #s6 #alpine-linux #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian
09:10-!-teepee [~teepee@8VQAADK8F.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:10-!-teepee is "teepee" on #oftc #debian
09:10-!-avar [avar@vm.nix.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:13-!-Gabx [~Gabx@0BGAAD76V.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:14-!-avar [avar@vm.nix.is] has joined #debian
09:14-!-avar is "rava" on #debian #debian-next
09:19-!-majic_ [~majic@89-73-196-12.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
09:19-!-majic_ is "realname" on #debian
09:19-!-Etua [~Thunderbi@public-gprs202463.centertel.pl] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable]
09:19-!-gabriel1__ [~Gabx@0BGAAD788.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:19-!-gabriel1__ is "Gabx" on #debian #i2p #Qubes_OS #retroshare #security #tor
09:20-!-taowa [~sid458860@taowa.user.oftc.net] has quit []
09:20-!-majic_ [~majic@89-73-196-12.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit []
09:20-!-taowa is "taowa rosetwig" on #oftc #debian-privacy #debian-nonupload #debian-quebec #Qubes_OS #debian-next #debian-gnupg
09:20-!-taowa [sid458860@taowa.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:20-!-majic [~majic@89-73-196-12.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
09:20-!-majic is "realname" on #debian
09:21-!-Haudegen [~quassel@91.114.49.10] has joined #debian
09:21-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-next #security #debian.or.at #debian
09:21-!-jedi0 [~mint@cpc114236-cast10-2-0-cust236.20-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
09:21-!-jedi0 is "mint" on #debian
09:21-!-majic [~majic@89-73-196-12.dynamic.chello.pl] has left #debian []
09:22-!-jedi0 [~mint@cpc114236-cast10-2-0-cust236.20-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit []
09:24-!-gabx1 [~Gabx@7YZAAC0LP.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:26-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@31.220.5.250] has joined #debian
09:26-!-hyiltiz is "Flash Jones" on #freedombox #biz #virt #debian-next @#fishing #debian
09:27-!-lenharo [~lenharo@2804:14c:87c4:d47c:15bb:2f81:9bc:3bca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:29-!-erle- [~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:237b:9ec1:e60a:63d1] has joined #debian
09:29-!-erle- is "Stephan" on #debian-next #debian #debian-raspberrypi
09:29-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:30-!-arnoldoree [~arnoldore@146.50.93.209.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:35-!-leonardorocha [~leonardo@2804:14d:882:a24c:838b:6a3f:c8d9:66b0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:39-!-bullgard4 [~bullgard4@dslb-094-223-005-192.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
09:39-!-bullgard4 is "realname" on #debian #bluez #kernelnewbies #debian-next
09:41-!-CrazyTux [~S@2409:4071:4d93:412b:5c1f:6bda:9b12:fbc4] has joined #debian
09:41-!-CrazyTux is "realname" on #debian
09:41-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting]
09:41<CrazyTux>ikonia
09:42-!-CrazyTux [~S@2409:4071:4d93:412b:5c1f:6bda:9b12:fbc4] has left #debian []
09:43-!-RagingMind [~ragingmin@108-88-15-141.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:48-!-ChmEarl [~prymar56@cpe-98-149-105-158.natmtn.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
09:48-!-ChmEarl is "Mark Pryor" on #packaging #virt #debian
09:54<maoma>Hello everyone
09:54-!-arnold_oree [~arnoldore@146.50.93.209.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:56-!-gabx1 [~Gabx@4G4AADGXL.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:56-!-gabx1 is "Gabx" on #debian #i2p #Qubes_OS #retroshare #security #tor
09:59-!-tertu [~tertu@2601:449:8380:8aa0:810e:51b4:94fe:85e5] has joined #debian
09:59-!-tertu is "tertu f. marybig" on #asahi #debian-next #debian
10:00-!-gabriel1__ [~Gabx@0BGAAD788.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:00-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has left #debian [Error from remote client]
10:00-!-__Andrew [~andrew@static-146-88-50-190.violin.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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10:01-!-gabriel1__ [~Gabx@0BGAAD8AF.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:01-!-gabriel1__ is "Gabx" on #debian #i2p #Qubes_OS #retroshare #security #tor
10:02-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@ec2-52-15-173-116.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
10:02-!-trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian
10:07-!-gabx1 [~Gabx@4G4AADGXL.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:07-!-yuqi [~yuqi@117.147.41.91] has joined #debian
10:07-!-yuqi is "yuqi" on #debian #linux
10:09-!-yuqi [~yuqi@117.147.41.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:10-!-HAL_6900 [~void@186.212.158.65] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:10-!-aev [~quassel@dsl-hkibng41-567310-185.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leave.]
10:10-!-lenharo [~lenharo@2804:14c:87c4:d47c:6d7d:5634:85d:9e1f] has joined #debian
10:10-!-lenharo is "Daniel Lenharo" on #minidebconf-online #debian-social #debian-nonupload #debian-next #debian-lists #debian-i18n #debian-devel-changes #debian-devel-br #debian-bsb #debian
10:12-!-Tenkawa [~Tenkawa@99.17.242.8] has joined #debian
10:12-!-Tenkawa is "Tenkawa" on #debian #debian-raspberrypi
10:14-!-hybridwipe [~null@cpe-173-174-99-192.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
10:14-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #llvmlinux #llvm #msys2-ci #msys2 #debian-next #debian
10:15-!-khalid_ [~khalid@148.87.23.11] has joined #debian
10:15-!-khalid_ is "Khalid Aziz" on #debian
10:16-!-HAL_6900 [~void@186.212.158.65] has joined #debian
10:16-!-HAL_6900 is "VOID" on #debian
10:16-!-YaoNai [~YaoNai@0002b5d4.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:16-!-YaoNai is "YaoNai" on #debian
10:24-!-bullgard4 [~bullgard4@dslb-094-223-005-192.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit []
10:25-!-kenyon [~sid496813@id-496813.highgate.irccloud.com] has quit []
10:25-!-kenyon [sid496813@id-496813.uxbridge.irccloud.com] has joined #debian
10:25-!-kenyon is "Kenyon Ralph" on #linode #debian-ipv6 #debian
10:30-!-zxspectrum [~sid502551@0002c7bb.user.oftc.net] has quit []
10:31-!-zxspectrum [sid502551@0002c7bb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:31-!-zxspectrum is "zxspectrum" on #oftc #debian
10:31-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
10:36-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
10:36-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
10:37-!-jpic [~jpic@82.142.2.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:37-!-hybridwipe [~null@cpe-173-174-99-192.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:38-!-pyre [~pyre@crimeboss.nillas-power.com] has joined #debian
10:38-!-pyre is "pyre" on #tor #debian
10:38-!-hybridwipe [~null@100.42.98.196] has joined #debian
10:38-!-hybridwipe is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #msys2 #msys2-ci #llvm #llvmlinux
10:39-!-Etua [~Thunderbi@2001:62a:4:42f:8ccf:1606:e55d:795d] has joined #debian
10:39-!-Etua is "Etua" on #openttd #debian-pl #debian #osm-pl
10:40-!-vv221[BI] [~vv221BI]@2a01cb0881af0b00bab4f712010c0308.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #debian [WeeChat 2.3]
10:40-!-gelignite [~gelignite@55d46203.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Quit: Stay safe!]
10:41-!-Hackerpcs [~user@hackerpcs.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Hackerpcs]
10:43-!-Hackerpcs [~user@hackerpcs.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:43-!-Hackerpcs is "user" on #kali-linux #debian-xfce #debian-ubuntu #debian-nginx #debian-live #debian-desktop #debian #redditprivacy #tor-project #tor
10:44-!-pax [~Thunderbi@host-79-50-47-99.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
10:44-!-pax is "pax" on #debian
10:44-!-fax [~quassel@78-27-102-55.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
10:44-!-fax is "fax" on #OpenBSD #debian #linux #oftc #java
10:46-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:46-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
10:48-!-ASC_ [~Asc@ip-95-220-200-226.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #debian
10:48-!-ASC_ is "realname" on #debian
10:50-!-richardm75 [~richardm7@2600:8801:c507:2900:9c3:8ce4:8f5b:95fc] has joined #debian
10:50-!-richardm75 is "realname" on #debian
10:52-!-ASC [~Asc@195.56.119.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:54-!-Etua [~Thunderbi@2001:62a:4:42f:8ccf:1606:e55d:795d] has quit [Quit: Etua]
10:55-!-pax [~Thunderbi@host-79-50-47-99.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: pax]
11:00-!-ASC__ [~Asc@195.56.119.209] has joined #debian
11:00-!-ASC__ is "realname" on #debian
11:03-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
11:04-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@0002a646.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:04-!-hyiltiz [~quassel@31.220.5.250] has joined #debian
11:04-!-hyiltiz is "Flash Jones" on #freedombox #biz #virt #debian-next @#fishing #debian
11:06-!-yuqi [~yuqi@117.147.41.91] has joined #debian
11:06-!-yuqi is "yuqi" on #debian #linux
11:06-!-ASC_ [~Asc@ip-95-220-200-226.bb.netbynet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:07-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@ec2-52-15-173-116.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
11:07-!-trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian
11:12-!-Kuririnmagic [~Kuririnma@ec2-54-197-132-229.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:16-!-toto_ [~toto@5.146.195.235] has joined #debian
11:16-!-toto_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
11:17-!-Kuririnmagic [~Kuririnma@ec2-54-197-132-229.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
11:17-!-Kuririnmagic is "Kuririnmagic" on #infosec #debian-devel-changes ##brazil #tor-south #redditprivacy #ck #oftc #debian
11:17-!-erle- [~stephan@2a04:ee41:3:3297:237b:9ec1:e60a:63d1] has quit []
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11:23<PaddyF>hello
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11:29<Sqrt{not}>Hi maoma PaddyF
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12:20<Brain>which channel is best to discuss getting software included in apt please?
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12:24<somiaj>Brain: here is an okay part to start. Are you wanting to package/maintain this software, or you looking for someone else to do the work and add it to debian?
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12:35<Brain>somiaj: we have CI that is producing ready made deb packages for amd64, arm64 and armhf, with i386 to follow... what is the best approach a piece of software like that? (its a software devlopment library)
12:35<Brain>i really dont know anything about the operations and politics of how debian works, ive just been a casual user for many many years
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12:36<bremner>,rfp
12:36<bremner>!rfp
12:36<dpkg>Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>.
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12:37<bremner>Brain: unfortunately automagically produced packages are not usually suitable for inclusion in Debian. Someone needs to make a policy compliant source package
12:38<bremner>Brain: if you think you want to maintain it debian yourself (and learn that process), then #debian-mentors is a good channel
12:38<bremner>otherwise, see the RFP note from the bot above
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12:40<Brain>thanks, does cmake cpack generally produce compliant packages?
12:41<Brain>we didnt just leave it to its own devices, it only packages up what we tell it to where we want it :)
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12:41<bremner>cmake cpack almost certainly does not produce policy compliant packages
12:41<bremner>for one thing, it is producing binary packages, and source packages are needed for Debian
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13:58<somiaj>Brain: if you are already making packages, then you may want to start the process to try to get them into debian. I would start with mentors.debian.net as they outline the process to look for a sponsor to get them to add the package to debian.
13:59<somiaj>Brain: you will also want to file an ITP (intent to package) bug, and double check if there are any RFP or other wnpp bugs related to this software.
13:59<somiaj>Brain: note as mentioned you may have to do a bit of work to make the package comply to debian policy before it will be accepted
14:00<somiaj>Though of course as mentioned by bremner, you may need to do a bit of additional work to ensure the package is compliant, which is where most the work is.
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14:11<aindilis>hey guys. I am an AI enthusiast, but over the years my memory has worsened, to the point where I doubt I could learn to be a DM. Plus, and, so, I want to automate package creation.
14:11<aindilis>There was a system in the early 2000s called Shaken http://www.ai.sri.com/project/SHAKEN , in which they codified AP chemistry knowledge to the point where a Knowledge Based System could solve advanced problems in AP chemistry.
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14:12<aindilis>I was curious about doing something like that for Debian Packaging-fu.
14:12<somiaj>debian helper is to tool that automates a lot of the debian packaging stuff, but it still requires some manual involvement to make packges fit policy
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14:13<somiaj>but to just ceate a package, debian helper can do most things without much help
14:13<aindilis>that's great!
14:13<aindilis>yeah for instance, your earlier answer somiaj to Brain, I would love to have the system "know" that answer. It would be a rule based system.
14:13<aindilis>also have you seen Autodeb and dpb?
14:14<somiaj>I think most of the tools provide some manual gudiance, but a lot is done automatically
14:14<somiaj>tools like pbuilder and sbuild help build packages in clean chroots
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14:14<tjcarter>aindilis: a lot of DM/DD stuff is really kind of muscle memory and a kittle bit of knowledge. Most debianizations can be half automated already, and the part that can't can be written out on cheat sheets if you know how to read them.
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14:14<somiaj>lintian is a checking tool that checks packages for debian policy
14:15<somiaj>debian helper does most the work, where matainers mostly need to provide overrides for things that don't build correctly from upstream
14:15<tjcarter>er, little bit of knowledge
14:15<somiaj>I just think for saftey they kinda prefer a human to check things, though most the work is automated
14:15<bremner>nontheless, when things go wrong, human intervention is needed
14:15<aindilis>tjcarter: somiaj: ty for the references! I rolled about 400 (unofficial, personal repo) packages back in 2005.
14:16<bremner>and libraries are a place that things can go quite wrong
14:16<bremner>(because of ABI changes)
14:16<aindilis>well, this is where I've differed with DDs in the past, I would like to have a use-at-your-own-risk-or-on-an-airgapped-system repo lol
14:17<tjcarter>libraries are definitely a place where that extra knowledge is necessary.
14:17<bremner>nothing stops you from doing that
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14:17<bremner>aindilis: Debian (the project) doesn't need to be involved with your YOLO repo
14:17<aindilis>bremner: except perhaps my own lack of skill
14:17<somiaj>though what happens is we may suggest that users dont' use those packages if they became popular
14:18<somiaj>the human intervetion and policy is a big reason why debian packages work so well together
14:18<aindilis>right, makes sense. I totally agree with everything
14:18<aindilis>so I want to make my own YOLO repo.
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14:18<aindilis>I think I will call it that from now on
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14:20<tjcarter>aindilis: I have at times (and will in future) set up a repo that tacks on to Debian. The trick to doing it without having the dmo nightmare scenario (ask dpkg about frankendebian) is … if you view Debian's packages as a tree … add only leaves, and leave the branches and trunk alone.
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14:21<tjcarter>if you MUST package things that would affect several packages (dmo packages their own ffmpeg), put it in /opt/yourproject/ and make sure that you namespace your package names to not interfere with debian stuff.
14:21<aindilis>yeah that's how I did it originally actually
14:21<tjcarter>Sadly, dmo did NOT.
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14:21<aindilis>dmo is a user?
14:21<somiaj>!dmo
14:21<dpkg>We recommend against using deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See http://deb-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <dmm bullseye>, <dmm buster>. See also <dmm list>, <dmm mirrors>, <dmm pinning>, <why not dmm>, <dmm remove>.
14:22<aindilis>oh right
14:22<somiaj>In general it isn't to hard to make packages that play nicely with debian, though many don't
14:23<tjcarter>And the guy who did dmo is/was/idunno a DD, he should know better and should be soundly fwopped with a pool noodle for it.
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14:24<somiaj>also I find that if a package is not in debian (provided it isn't non-free), it is usually because the packgae is not good enough quality to make it into debian
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14:26<aindilis>yeah, I totally understand. Its a difference in use case here. I'm kinda doing the "Sufficiently encapsulated ugly is indistinguishable from beautiful."
14:26<somiaj>but in my limited experience, most of maintaing a package is just tweaking the build process to comply to policy
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14:26<Brain>bremner: i agree on the point of ABI changes breaking libs. i think you arent likely to see any programs in debian dependent upon my lib, because people make discord bots as one off projects not to be shared, generally and its an open source C++ discord library.
14:26<somiaj>the actual process is fairly automated, including the checks for policy with lintian
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14:27<Brain>this does make this a little less bothersome, but still annoying if someone changes the ABI without documenting it
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14:27<somiaj>Brain: would the package have much use being in debian then, vs a third party repo used by those who want it.
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14:27<Brain>somiaj: people would use my software, but they wouldnt submit their software to debian as an apt package
14:28<somiaj>Brain: that is also something to consider, is there enough users making it worth getting it into debian
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14:28<Brain>adding it to debian will boost its users, as you have no other discord libraries in apt
14:28<Brain>for any programming language, at all
14:28<tjcarter>somiaj: not good enough or … newer.
14:28<bremner>in general C++ libraries are extra painful to deal with ABI-wise
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14:29<bremner>not impossible, just extra pain
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14:29<aindilis>(alright I will continue my orbit around the Debian project and be back in 6 months for another near hit or whatever the periodicity of my orbit is.)
14:30<Brain>a bigger issue will be the speed of updates from discord to their api, neccessitating changes to my lib. we work on an agile methodology with very frequent point releases, some of those point releases can break abi compatibility. would i be better setting up our own repository, like for example docker and mysql have?
14:30<tjcarter>although my last Debian repository outside of Debian had things like Keyspan firmware … Keyspan has been bought and sold a few times and the firmware on their USB serial dongles is not includable in Debian because Debian declares non-free not part of Debian. If it were, yeah they could totally include it!
14:30<Brain>and just getting users to add it to apt?
14:30<somiaj>tjcarter: yea rappidaly evolving new software is sometimes best to wait until it is a point LTS releases can be supported
14:30<tjcarter>"may be distributed as part of … blah blah"
14:31<somiaj>Brain: debian releases are fairly frozen, changing the api of the released package may not be considered resonable.
14:31<somiaj>Brain: it might be that due to discords changing things on a whim, makes this much harder to get into stable
14:31<Brain>yeah, discord don't work that way,they regularly break stuff my end
14:31<tjcarter>The package also had an in-kernel module ripped out of kernel as a DKMS package because Debian builds it with the wrong options for my needs, and other distributions don't include that module at all. AppleTalk routing.
14:31<Brain>"oh hey we changed how the XYZ endpoint works you now must also pass ABC to it" which means all the libs interfaces change too
14:32<somiaj>Brain: in that case you might have use to backports, or maybe just fasttrack
14:32<tjcarter>Debian really ought to stop building that in its own kernels as Debian provides no software to support it anymore.
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14:32<Brain>backports aint so bad
14:32<somiaj>though if it ends up that the stable version breaks within a few months of the release, it might not be suitble for stable, and thus will live in sid and fasttrack
14:33<somiaj>in general backports should be optional and the version in stable should continue to work
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14:34<somiaj>rappidaly evolving software is sometimes a pain in debian, node.js was that when it first came out, the packages in debian would not be that functional due to upstream changes while their api stabilzed
14:35<somiaj>though I guess it was still in debian, just partially broken
14:37<tjcarter>Brain: isn't discord pretty much non-free anyway?
14:38<tjcarter>non-source even
14:38<tjcarter>discord IMO is a great argument for something like flatpak, if you're going to use such things at all.
14:38<tjcarter>let it be entirely independent of your OS
14:39<tjcarter>Problem there is you might need a flatpak backport
14:39<bremner>I guess(?) flatpak is not great for software dev?
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14:40<tjcarter>bremner: fairly neutral from where I sit. It's sandboxed which makes it easier to isolate from your OS, and sandboxing might be a good idea if nobody can look at the source.
14:40<tjcarter>(some flatpaks are non-free and even closed source software)
14:40<bremner>can you link to libraries installed via flatpak?
14:41<tjcarter>not outside of another flatpak, no
14:41<bremner>right. So that's what I mean by not great for software dev
14:42<tjcarter>flatpak libraries are set up in "runtimes". Another flatpak can link them, but if you need the libs on the OS outside of flatpakland, you need to install it.
14:42<aindilis>so what about docker?
14:42<tjcarter>Similar idea operating at a different level
14:43<tjcarter>All this container/virtualization/etc stuff winds up serving similar purposes at higher or lower levels in the end.
14:43<aindilis>well so if I make a docker image, is it going to run 15 years later?
14:44<tjcarter>it should, but in 15 years I wouldn't suggest running it on the open Internet.
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14:44<tjcarter>because 15 years from now, if it's not completely trivial, it's probably going to be subject to some security breach or other.
14:44<aindilis>yeah there's a definite sense of overextension when trying to build "AI."
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14:48<aindilis>would this channel be an appropriate place to talk about the confluence of Debian and AI?
14:49<bremner>I would suggest #debian-offtopic, but I won't force it
14:49<bremner>It's not really about user-support for debian
14:49<aindilis>okay, I'll move there
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14:49<aindilis>ty!
14:49<TobiX>aindilis: In 15 years, you can always layer another layer of indirection/emulation in between :P
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17:48<Romaji>https://paste.debian.net/1211631/ so I'm getting things telling me the debian packages are unsigned?
17:49<sarnold>!bullseye sources.list
17:49<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
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17:50<sarnold>Romaji: I think append -security to your http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian bullseye-security line
17:52<Romaji>can't edit it, decided to set it up with sudo instead of root
17:54<Romaji>realized command line sudo works
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17:57<Romaji>https://paste.debian.net/1211632/ After adding the -security to the lines, I get this when trying to instal the packages AMD made
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17:59<Tenkawa>you ran apt-get update first right?
17:59<Romaji>oh shit
18:00<Romaji>after running it I get stuff about "/var/lib/apt/lists/lock" not being opened
18:00<Romaji>does that need to be run in sudo?
18:01<Tenkawa>ys
18:01<Tenkawa>er yes all apt commands need to be run in sudo/root
18:02<tjcarter>Tenkawa: show 😛
18:02<Romaji>got it now to see if this works
18:02<Tenkawa>tjcarter: stop nitpicking
18:02*tjcarter grins and runs
18:02<Tenkawa>all apt "changing" commands
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18:03<Tenkawa>tjcarter: oh we can catch you... this is the Matrix afterall lol
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18:04<Romaji>yeah no same errors https://paste.debian.net/1211632/
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18:05<Tenkawa>oh.. you are in amd64 and dont have i386 arch enabled.. what are you trying to do btw?
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18:05<Romaji>Install drivers for my RX580
18:05<Tenkawa>this almost looks like what happens to me everytime I install steam on a new install
18:06<Urk>I am wondering if it would be possible to get someone to allow a later version of Thunar with Debian 10.9, Kernel 4.19? Currently I am running 1.8.4-1, and folks in Librera #xfce believe that I can't see files in Documents because of the age of Thunar. Upgrading to 5.10 isn't a possibility as of yet, and it recently crashed. For that reason I would want to run 5.10 in emulation mode, but kernel 4.19 isn't that old so I should be able to get an
18:06<Urk>upgrade of Thunar.
18:06<tjcarter>Romaji: oh craaap, you don't wanna go anywhere near amdgpu-pro
18:06<Tenkawa>tjcarter: they need to dpkg --add-architecture i386 don't they?
18:06<tjcarter>Tenkawa: probably already have it
18:06<Romaji>so the non pro file?
18:07<Tenkawa>Depends: libc6:i386 (>= 2.29) but it is not installable leads to believe its not though
18:07<tjcarter>Romaji: the standard kernel amdgpu driver and the standard xorg amdgpu are developed by AMD
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18:07<tjcarter>Romaji: have you previously enabled i386 for e.g. Steam?
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18:07<Romaji>so why does my system complain at boot it doesn't have firmware?
18:07<Tenkawa>that makes me think i386 is not in dpkg yet
18:08<Romaji>and no, I haven't, this was an emergency install after trying to instal new Ubuntu which fucked up my grub
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18:09<tjcarter>Romaji: the only packages you need is firmware-amd-graphics
18:10<tjcarter>Romaji: how far into installing stuff are you?
18:10<Romaji>okay so can I get that with some GUI tool or does it have to be command line? I've basically installed nothing
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18:10<tjcarter>bullseye should've installed everything you needed
18:10<tjcarter>there ARE some "missing" amdgpu firmwares, but not for your card
18:10<Romaji>except a recent OS update
18:10<Sqrt{not}>Romaji, I definitely agree you should start your install from the beginning.
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18:11<tjcarter>they're for Radeon RX 7000-series cards
18:11*Tenkawa runs all NVIDIA so doesn't know how AMD pkgs up stuff nowadays
18:11<Sqrt{not}>Romaji, which debian installer did you try?
18:11*tjcarter won't run Nvidia, but has an old RX580
18:11<Romaji>uh the USB net installer
18:12<tjcarter>It's a good card, probably did someone a fine job mining before I bought it.
18:12<Sqrt{not}>Romaji, the one *with* firmware?
18:12*tjcarter guesses not, Debian doesn't make that one real obvious to get to anymore
18:13<Romaji>I mean, it has some clearly given that it sees my wifi and BT card, but I got the one by unnetbootin
18:13<tjcarter>the "Getting Debian" page doesn't even have a direct link on the front page. Instead it takes you to a page that just tries to auto-download an amd64 netinst
18:13<Romaji>the one with the all text character installer
18:14<tjcarter>Romaji: what desktop were you planning to use?
18:14<Sqrt{not}>what about unetbootin?
18:15<Romaji>unetbootin has an option whre you can just select a distro without downloading an ISO. and I'm planning to use this one, tjcarter? I'm not sure I get the question
18:16<Sqrt{not}>%unetbootin
18:16<dselect>UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. http://unetbootin.sf.net/ Not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
18:16<Romaji><usb install>
18:16<tjcarter>Romaji: I was gonna suggest a particular live image based on which desktop you planned to use
18:16<Sqrt{not}>Romaji, don't use unetbootin
18:17<Romaji>OH wait you meant like gnome vs KDE? GNOME
18:17<tjcarter>Romaji: it's got the netinst but it's also got a full live-booting system which is great for fixing problems
18:17<Romaji>%usb install
18:17<dselect>You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03 and ask me about <install debian> for hybrid CD/DVD images. Use http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ to write images from Windows. For BIOSes not capable of USB boot, ask me about <plop>.
18:17<tjcarter>Yes, like Gnome if you insist 😉
18:17*tjcarter has a hate/hate relationship with several deliberate Gnome bugs
18:18<Tenkawa>Gnome or KDE both... every year or 2 they both find a way to crumble
18:18<Tenkawa>then rebuild
18:18<bebop>Tenkawa: what? Plasma is in the best place it has ever been. Over the last 2 years it has come miles.
18:19<Sqrt{not}>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.0.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-gnome+nonfree.iso
18:19<tjcarter>Romaji: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.0.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/
18:19<Tenkawa>bebop: now... but it took 20 years to get there
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18:19<tjcarter>Plasma is great once set up
18:19<tjcarter>It's a royal PITA to set it up.
18:19<Romaji>okay I'm going to go now and make a new USB image after class/random zoom meeting
18:20<Tenkawa>24 years even
18:20<tjcarter>I tend to like LXDE, LXQt, XFCE, and MATE. They're all pretty useful IMO
18:20*tjcarter has not so fond memories of the Qt license mess
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18:21<Tenkawa>xfce... nice lean and integrates into Debian well
18:21<tjcarter>I guess Nokia of all companies now owns it all?
18:21<Tenkawa>yes
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18:21<tjcarter>Thank the almighty they decided to leave the flippin' license alone.
18:21*Tenkawa worked at one of the companies they bought during that mess
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18:23<tjcarter>At the time TrollTech didn't want to just GPL or LGPL it, and they kinda wanted to preserve their income potential on non-Linux platforms
18:24<bebop>Qt is used in so many industires.. vehicles, airplanes.
18:24<tjcarter>The first version of the QPL had to thread quite a needle, and both the FSF fanboys and the KDE fanboys gave me no end of shit about it
18:24<tjcarter>We got it done, though, and it worked out well enough TrollTech later decided that the GPL wasn't so scary
18:25<tjcarter>And I didn't even USE KDE … I used Window Maker!
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18:27<Urk>Is there another file manager that I can use besides Thunar with Debian 10.9? I am not able to see files in my Documents folder unless they are transferred from my Desktop. According to the folk in #xfce Librera, the problem is that my Thunar version is too old, and no one has offered an upgrade to Kernel 4.19 Debian 10.9 isn't that old so I would hope there would still be support for this.
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18:28<tjcarter>Oh dear God he's trying to use STRETCH?!
18:28<Urk>tjcarter: I am using Buster
18:29<tjcarter>10.9 is Stretch
18:29<tjcarter>Buster people might still help you with, but Stretch needs to go away now.
18:29<Urk>That is the last version before Bullseye.
18:29<tjcarter>10.10 is Buster
18:30<somiaj>The thunar version in buster should read files just fine, I do not see why you need to transfer them from your Desktop
18:30<tjcarter>er, wait
18:30<Urk>I haven't been able to upgrade to Bullseye as of yet. My last two attempts crashed.
18:30<tjcarter>I'm drunk
18:30<Sebastinas>Stretch was 9.x
18:30<somiaj>I also think you are getting bad advice there, though many places just dno't support older versions.
18:30<tjcarter>(actually I'm not, I don't drink, but I'm acting drunk, so ignore me)
18:30<Urk>tjcarter: You need some coffee, and I don't mean that cheap Starbucks stuff; maybe something like "Blast".
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18:31<tjcarter>I do need coffee, I'll be awake for hours yet.
18:31<somiaj>Urk: yes buster contains lots of different file managers, install the one you like. Though I suspect your thunar problem is more a user issue vs an issue with thunar itself.
18:31<somiaj>pcman I think is another common one people like
18:31<somiaj>,i pcman
18:31<judd>No package named 'pcman' was found in bullseye/amd64.
18:31<tjcarter>,i pcmanfm
18:31<judd>Package pcmanfm (utils, optional) in bullseye/amd64: extremely fast and lightweight file manager. Version: 1.3.2-1; Size: 285.5k; Installed: 1593k; Homepage: http://pcmanfm.sourceforge.net/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/pcmanfm
18:32<Tenkawa>yeah I just started thunar and if you go to Go.. Desktop is listed right there
18:32<somiaj>ahh that is it
18:32<Tenkawa>let me check Documents
18:32<tjcarter>Urk: what you probably want to find is the home folder on your desktop and to create a Documents link on your desktop
18:32<tjcarter>That can be done with any file manager
18:33<Urk>somiaj: What the likelihood that someone can provide an upgraded version of Thunar that will work with Debian kernel 4.19? Right now I can only run 1.8.4-1 and suspect that is the problem.
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18:34<somiaj>Urk: very unlikely
18:34<bremner>Urk: are you still running oldstable?
18:35<somiaj>Urk: though thunar should work just fine in buster using buster libs/tools, it won't just stop working because there is a new version
18:35<Urk>bremmer: I am running Debian 10.9 which isn't that old. I should be able to upgrade to a newer version of Thunar.
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18:36<bremner>Urk: well, the universe does not necessarily agree with you
18:36<Urk>somiaj: I can't see files saved to sub-folders of the Documents folder, and the folks in #XFCE believes it is because the Thunar version is too old.
18:36<Urk>bremner: But does the Universe agree with #XFCE?
18:36<Urk>I too think the Thunar version is too old. I should be able to run at least Version 3.
18:36<Urk>Who is working on the Thunar patch?
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18:37<somiaj>That seems very strange to me that a file manger wouldn't let you do that, even if it is old
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18:38<somiaj>Urk: in general you probably don't need to upgrade the thunar version in buster, and should really run bullseye if you want newer software
18:38<somiaj>,v thunar
18:38<judd>Package: thunar on amd64 -- stretch: 1.6.11-1; buster: 1.8.4-1; bookworm: 4.16.8-1; bullseye: 4.16.8-1; sid: 4.16.8-1
18:39<somiaj>though guess there was a large jump in versions, and it wasn't backported, though you can try pcmanfm if you want to try another file manager
18:39<Tenkawa>Urk: would you like to know how to put Documents on your sidebar?
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18:40<Tenkawa>2 steps to do it and don't need to update anything
18:41<Urk>Tenkawa: My computer has several thousand documents on it, including reservation records for where I work, quarterly tax statements, annual tax statements, construction work orders, etc, etc. The stuff is neatly organized for quick access in my Documents folder so not sure how practical it is to put the documents in a side bar.
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18:41<Tenkawa>I mean the list on Thunar like your username/Desktop/Trash/etc
18:41<Urk>I don't find an upgrade of Thunar for Debian 4.19 to be unreasonable. From the sound of things, it sounds like support of Debian 10.9 ended as soon as Bullseye came out which doesn't make any sense.
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18:42<Tenkawa>its "called" the sidebar
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18:43<Tenkawa>isn't that what you were saying? " Is there another file manager that I can use besides Thunar with Debian 10.9? I am not able to see files in my Documents folder unless they are transferred from my Desktop."
18:43<bremner>Urk: I can't believe you've been getting help here for months and nobody has explained how stable releases of debian work.
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18:43<bremner>Urk: so you must just be venting your frustration.
18:43<Urk>Tenkawa: XFCE has a cabinet folder that allows you to access your directory tree, and for the record the files are not showing up.
18:43<Tenkawa>Urk: correct
18:43<Tenkawa>You aren't listening
18:44<Tenkawa>I just said I was willing to tell you how ti
18:44<Tenkawa>er to
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18:44<Tenkawa>but you aren't listening
18:44<somiaj>is the the copy you made from your old user, did you copy them over as root, so they are all owned by root and only root can see them?
18:44<Tenkawa>and I'm afk...
18:44<Tenkawa>I need dinner.. bbialw
18:47<somiaj>Urk: if you want to see if my huntch is correct, as root run, 'chown -R newuser:newuser /home/newuser' -- that should set any ownership of files that happened to be owned by root or the other user to your user, and for the most part anything in $HOME should be owned by the respective user
18:47<somiaj>not this changes all files, so beware
18:47<somiaj>(just in case you have some files you want another owner/group for some reason)
18:47<somiaj>and of course newuser is the name of the new user you created
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19:00*Sqrt{not} also wonders about outdated configuration files copied over from Urk's former user's directories.
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19:15<Urk>I don't see how a really "ANCIENT" version of Thunar has anything to do with configuration files. Configuration files are updated when someone upgrades, and updates Debian so if Debian isn't willing to update/upgrade that isn't my fault. The approach I taking for now is that I am going to attempt to use a different file manager, and if that doesn't work I will look into dumping Debian.
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19:16<bremner>most people complain about old software in stable. But if you won't run stable, there's not much we can do
19:16<Sqrt{not}>Urk, what I refer to is the fact that you upgraded, and probably got new configuration files, and then you decided to copy ALL your old configuration files over the top of the new ones.
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19:20<Urk>Sqrt{not}: Not at all true. Kernel 5.10 crashed just like it crashed before the official release. As a result, I attempted to revert to my earlier iteration with Timemachine/rsync, but somehow the user was corrupted. As a result, I created a new user which got rid of the problem, but now have issues with Thunar because it is tool old. That is not my fault.
19:20<Tenkawa>Urk: why is it too old?
19:20<Sqrt{not}>Urk, I remember you went through a lot of trouble to copy your valuable old files into the new user.
19:21<Urk>Tenkawa: Since the latest XFCE4 update, I can't see files in the Documents folder, but they are definitely there.
19:21<Urk>Tenkawa: I am no expert on this stuff, and folks in #XFCE4 believe it is the version of Thunar I am running that is a problem.
19:21<Tenkawa>are you seeing the folder itself?
19:22<Tenkawa>check the advanced settings section and what does gvfs say?
19:22<Urk>Tenkawa: Yes, I can see the folder itself. Also, if the files are saved to the desktop, and then copied to the Documents folder then they are visible.
19:22<Tenkawa>yes.. you are out of sync
19:22<Urk>Tenkawa: I am going to need some guidance on how to check the advanced settings section.
19:22<Tenkawa>ok let me restart thunar
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19:23<Tenkawa>edit preferences
19:23<Tenkawa>advanced
19:23<Tenkawa>whats volume management set to?
19:23<Urk>Tenkawa: What do you mean by edit preferences? Which file or program?
19:24<Tenkawa>inside thunar
19:24<Tenkawa>(your file explorer)
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19:28<Urk>Tenkawa: I m in Thunar in the File Manager Preferences. What next?
19:28<Tenkawa>look in advanced
19:28<Tenkawa>is there a volume management section?
19:28<Urk>Yes, and the box is checked.
19:28<Tenkawa>is it enabled below?
19:29<Urk>yes
19:29<richard_h>rsnapshot is based on rsync, right? So if a machine is currently being backed up, I should be able to see an rsync process with ps or top. Am I thinking straight?
19:29<Tenkawa>ok.. it is likely part of gvfs is really managing what you can see..
19:29<Urk>gvfs?
19:29<Urk>What do you mean by that?
19:30<Tenkawa>gnome volume management system
19:30<Urk>Hmm. I don't think I am running Gnome since I am using XFCE
19:30<Tenkawa>yes you are
19:30<Urk>Didn't realize it.
19:30<Tenkawa>if its turned on there you are
19:30<bremner>richard_h: it depends on rsync, so that sounds plausible
19:31<Tenkawa>otherwise you get a message saying gvfs is not available
19:31<Tenkawa>like I do
19:31<Tenkawa>(because I explicitly remove it)
19:32<Tenkawa>it handles Trash, etc
19:32<Urk>Tenkawa: I have not received any error messages whatsoever, but suspicious about the age of the current file manager that I am running. It is quite old.
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19:32<Tenkawa>its not a matter of errors,, its a matter of where its putting things
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19:33<Tenkawa>what you should do is if you know the name of a document approximately
19:33<Urk>Tenkawa: Any thoughts on how to get the visibility problem fixed?
19:34<Tenkawa>yeah.. try this find ~yourusername -type f -name "*afileyouarelookingfor*"
19:34<richard_h>context: I'm responsible for doing upgrades. I know when backups are supposed to run, but have no idea how long they should take. I think it's safe to assume that if rsync isn't there, the backup has probably finished.
19:34<Tenkawa>does it show up where you expect first?
19:35<Tenkawa>like for me I would do find ~tenkawa -name "testfile.txt"
19:38<Tenkawa>I'll be back.. really need to find food before I fall
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19:44<golgo13>I freshly installed Bullseye with KDE. After about 3 days, mouse clicks gets very laggy. Memory usage is about 10gig out of 32gig, and CPU usage is in single digits%. And nothing unusual in dmesg either. If I kill heavy ones like firefox, it's ok for about half day. Any clues?
19:45<sney>is /home on a slow disk?
19:45<golgo13>it's on a ssd
19:46<sney>that should be fine
19:47<sney>does 'balooctl status' show enabled? that's an indexing service that could cause some sluggishness
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19:48<sney>also, make sure compositing is enabled
19:48<Urk> Tenkawa: Haven't had a chance to run your command, but did take a look in the folder at the command line, and it isn't visible. Phone just rang at work so I didn't get a chance to work on it.
19:52<Sqrt{not}>Urk, what command line command did you try? what was the result?
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19:53<Urk>I just located the folder, looked inside, and didn't see it. However, I haven't tried the command that Tenkawa suggested because of demands at work. I need a couple of more minutes to run his command.
19:55<Sqrt{not}>I'm curious about what you did when you said: " did take a look in the folder at the command line, and it isn't visible." what command ? what result?
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20:00<Urk>Tenkawa: This is the result http://paste.debian.net/1211641/ Am I missing something here?
20:01<sney>yes, the actual command, "find"
20:01<sney>all that other stuff is just arguments
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20:03*Sqrt{not} suspects missing "x" permission on directories above the file, and probably somiaj's suspicion about ownership (of the files and the directory tree)
20:05<Urk>Sqrt{not}: Would you be able to provide more definitive syntax of the command you want me to run? But leave of the exclammation points ant * unless they are part of the command.
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20:08<Urk>Since it isn't showing up at the command line I suspect it is being saved to another location, but what that location is a mystery. Its there because it shows up when trying to save a 2nd copy of the files from Zoho mail.
20:08<Sqrt{not}>Urk, let's zero in one any one file that you know is there, but you can't see from thunar. Do this command: sudo ls -l xxxxxxx (where xxxxxx is the exact full file name you know is there)
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20:10<Urk>Sqrt{not}: I get the error: ls: cannot access '2020_ct-tr1-form_SIGNED.pdf': No such file or directory
20:10<sarnold>that doesn't look like the exact full file name
20:11<Sqrt{not}>Urk, put in the full directory path with the file name.
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20:12<Urk>Sqrt{not}: Wouldn't it be better to search system wide in case it is being saved to a location different than intended?
20:12<Sqrt{not}>for example (correct as needed) /home/users/pd/Documents/2020_ct-tr1-form_SIGNED.pdf
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20:13<Sqrt{not}>Urk, do you know that some file is somewhere, but thunar does not show it? or is this all imaginary? If there is an actual file, in an actual directory, please do: "sudo ls -l xxxxx" of the full directory path and file name.
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20:15<Sqrt{not}>Urk, fine, search system wide, and when you find the real location, then please run my requested command on that location.
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20:18<Urk>Sqrt{not}: Files show up when running ls command.
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20:19<Urk>2020_ct-tr1-form_SIGNED.pdf
20:19<Sqrt{not}>Urk, ok good:) please show the full output of my command.
20:20<Sqrt{not}>and please show the full command too ;)
20:20<Urk>-rw------- 1 pd pd 942053 Sep 7 20:03 /home/pd/Documents/Crescent-City-Property/DNGR/AG/2020/Filings/2020_ct-tr1-form_SIGNED.pdf
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20:22<Sqrt{not}>very good. now let's look at the directory properties one by one. first "ls -ld /home/pd/Documents/Crescent-City-Property/DNGR/AG/2020/Filings"
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20:23<Urk>-rw------- 1 pd pd 942053 Sep 7 20:03 /home/pd/Documents/Crescent-City-Property/DNGR/AG/2020/Filings/2020_ct-tr1-form_SIGNED.pdf
20:24<Urk>Strange, now the file is showing up in the cabinet program. Weird.
20:24<Urk>Regardless, there is still a case for Debian to support a more recent version of Thunar.
20:24<Sqrt{not}>please show the directory, not the file. "sudo ls -ld /home/pd/Documents/Crescent-City-Property/DNGR/AG/2020/Filings"
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20:28<Urk>drwxr-xr-x 3 pd pd 4096 Sep 7 20:03 /home/pd/Documents/Crescent-City-Property/DNGR/AG/2020/
20:31<Sqrt{not}>Urk, OK that is good also. what you want to see in these directory entry listings are 2 things: you want to see the owner/group (which is pd/pd in what we see so far) and you want to see the 'x' permission in 3 places in the permissions listing
20:31<Urk>I don't see anything wrong with the permissions, and so far the error is not consistent.
20:31<Sqrt{not}>so, please one by one, go up the directory tree. next would be "ls -ld /home/pd/Documents/Crescent-City-Property/DNGR/AG/2020"
20:32<Sqrt{not}>Urk, yes right, _so_far_ the permissions and ownership are correct. but it must be correct for every level of directories for your unprivileged user to be able to see it from a graphical program like thunar
20:33<Urk>IF it wasn't correct then it wouldn't be coming and going.
20:33<Sqrt{not}>If this file is working, do you have an example of a file that does not show in thunar, but you know where it really is?
20:34<Urk>I just checked the permissions of all of the sub-folders and everything appears to be ok. I don't think permissiosn is in an issue in this case. I think the version of Thunar I am runnning is buggy.
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20:38<Sqrt{not}>Urk, help me make sure I understand your problem. when you said " now the file is showing up in the cabinet program" --- is that the same thing as we have been calling "thunar" in this chat?
20:38<Urk>yes
20:38<Urk>Thunar uses a cabinet shaped icon that is one of the panel tools in XFCE
20:39<Sqrt{not}>OK, thanks :) Is there some file that your can "sudo ls xxxxxx" but thunar does not show correctly?
20:39<Urk>I placed the cabinet inside one of two panels at the bottom of my screen for easy access.
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20:39<Urk>Sqrt{not}: Over half of the files wouldn't show when selecting the Documents folder, but as mentioned earlier this is ephemeral.
20:40<Urk>Its an annoyance, and I hope Debian will explore upgrading Thunar for those still using 10.9
20:40<Urk>Eventually I will try 11.0 in emulation mode, but so far 11.0 won't run on my computer.
20:40<Sqrt{not}>Urk, if it happens to you again, please double-check the directory permissions for whatever file exists but does not show in thunar, like we just did with that example above.
20:41<Urk>Permissions are ok, and that isn't the issue. This is not a user caused problem is my point.
20:41<Urk>As mentioned earlier, #XFCE believes it is a problem with the version of Thunar that I am runnning.
20:42<tjcarter>,v thunar
20:42<judd>Package: thunar on amd64 -- stretch: 1.6.11-1; buster: 1.8.4-1; bookworm: 4.16.8-1; bullseye: 4.16.8-1; sid: 4.16.8-1
20:42<Sqrt{not}>I don't see a problem at all right now. If you can demonstate an actual case, I (or others here) will help you document your problem.
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20:43<Urk>Its definitely a problem, and previously I took snapshot of the screen showing the files not displayed in the gui. XFCE is currently having a problem with their bug reporter so not sure what will become of it, but XFCE recommended I contact Debian to see about getting an updated version of Thunar.
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20:44<Urk>Version 1.8.4-1 is really ancient
20:44<tjcarter>Urk: I HOPE Microsft is going to port Edge to Windows 7
20:45<Sqrt{not}>Urk, yes it would help to have a screenshot and at the same time the actual "ls" output showing the actual permissions of the entire directory tree
20:45<Urk>tjcarter: Why do I need to know about Edge?
20:45<tjcarter>r/wooooosh
20:46<Urk>tjcarter: Debian 10.9 is still a very recent release so if your point is that my request is legacy then it is unfounded. Plain and simply Debian no longer supports versions when a new release is introduced.
20:47<tjcarter>Urk: It WAS stable. It's now OLDstable. Debian does not put new versions of WHOLE FRICKING DESKTOP ENVIRONMENTS in a stable release. And they sure as hell don't do it in OLDSTABLE.
20:47<tjcarter>That's not how Debian works, and people have been trying to explain this to you for hours now
20:48<Urk>Thunar is not a desktop environment, but a file manager. Amazingly no one has offered me another file manager in all of the posts I have made on here.
20:48<Urk>As mentioned earlier, I am not an expert on this stuff, but XFCE believe the problem is Thunar. It might be something else, but who knows.
20:50<Sqrt{not}>Urk, the hardest problems to track down and fix, are the ones that seem to come and go. If you can find an actual case of a file that is really there, but thunar does not show it, then you could help everybody by documenting exactly what is happening when things are not right.
20:51<Urk>agreed:
20:52<Sqrt{not}>urk, I have just been educated about a program that will list the entire directory tree for a questionable file: "namei -l /home/pd/Documents/Crescent-City-Property/DNGR/AG/2020/Filings/2020_ct-tr1-form_SIGNED.pdf"
20:53<Urk>Sqrt{not}: I have used namei before, and familiar with it.
20:53<Urk>It saves typing
20:54<Sqrt{not}>When the problem pops up again, make the screenshot, and also paste the namei output, to document what is not working. Then we might get some action fixing whatever is wrong here.
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23:08<twb>Is gnome3 the only (full) desktop environment in Debian that uses wayland?
23:09<twb>I am not asking about window-manager-and-a-taskbar stuff like swaywm
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23:11<somiaj>I belive kde also can use wayland, but I hear it might not be as complete as gnome on wayland or kde on xorg
23:11<twb>I notice that task-kde-desktop defaults to sddm + xorg, which is what made me ask
23:11<somiaj>I think I heard someone here say they have tested it out on wayland but just prefer xorg
23:11<somiaj>which might be why it defaults as such
23:12<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/Wayland#KDE_Plasma_.28supported_since_5.4.2B-.29
23:12<twb>I notice phosh is wayland so that should be worth a giggle
23:12<somiaj>,i plasma-workspace-wayland
23:12<judd>Package plasma-workspace-wayland (kde, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Plasma Workspace for KF5 - Wayland integration. Version: 4:5.20.5-6; Size: 48.2k; Installed: 206k; Homepage: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace
23:12<somiaj>Sounds like you need to install that package to get kde on wayland
23:13<somiaj>I meant to try out gnome and kde in bullseye so I can better support them, that lasted about 10 mins before I got sick of them, and then another 3-4 weeks of uninstalling all the crap they pulled in
23:14<twb>FWIW I let gnome3 be the default on my fancy-pants T490s and the system has so much power I genuinely haven't been annoyed by it
23:15<twb>The only real issue I had was that every gnome-software would leak 1GB of RAM per day (and auto-restart overnight), so I was initially just killing it weekly, but eventually dpkg-diverted it away
23:15<somiaj>to me it isn't about system power, it is just i'm old and stuck in my ways, also I like pages instead of virtual desks with scroll
23:15<twb>somiaj: well I do 99% of my work inside screen still
23:16<somiaj>I use multiple xterms and like to quickly scroll between pages
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23:16<jmcnaught>I recommend gnome-shell-extension-impatience to anyone who finds GNOME a little slow.
23:16<somiaj>really though it is just I decided I didn't have the energy/desire to configure/figure out a new work flow, what I have is simple, works, and no desire to actually use gnome or kde
23:17<twb>All I'm saying is that I had a VASTLY better experience on Debian 11 with that laptop, than I did with any earlier release of GNOME3 --- and I attribute it to having 1000% of the RAM and 2000% of the CPU of my previous systems
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23:17-!-vdamewood is "Vincent Damewood" on #debian #llvm
23:17<somiaj>though I use nvidia, and it sounds like waylend has some extra work to play nicely with nvidia
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23:22<mooff>what fun awaits me if i mount ~/.cache as tempfs on startup?
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23:23<somiaj>you might find that you like mroe persistant cache for some aps
23:24<twb>somiaj: don't do that, set XDG_CACHE_DIR
23:24<twb>er, mooff
23:25<twb>mooff: that should be XDG_CACHE_HOME=$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/cache
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23:26<mooff>magic.. what might make me regret it?
23:26<twb>mooff: AFAIK that's a simple tradeoff of speed vs. space
23:27<twb>My prison inmates get that set, to reduce NFS I/O thrash from crap like ~/.cache/chromium/GPU
23:28<twb># Reference: http://codesearch.debian.net/results/KDEVARTMP/page_0
23:29<twb>I think I also have to specially patch scribus and gimp
23:30<mooff>Linux in a prison.. never heard of that before
23:32<mooff>do you offer compilers? :-P
23:32<twb>No.
23:33<mooff>humbug
23:33<twb>At least one inmate wrote Space Invaders, though.
23:34<mooff>where?
23:34<twb>No comment
23:34<_enigma9o7_>australia
23:35<mooff>i mean, with what tool?
23:35<mooff>the address bar in Chromium?
23:36<mooff>(with the keyboard, i hear you say)
23:37<twb>mooff: libreoffice and python
23:37-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.93.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:38<twb>There was also a case where the prison staff gave an inmate a copy of IDLE and a bunch of dev tools because he was studying programming. It might have been the same inmate; I don't remember
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23:40<mooff>studying programming.. the perfect excuse.. to r00t ur b0x, heheheh
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 14 00:00:37 2021