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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-15

---Logopened Wed Sep 15 00:00:23 2021
---Daychanged Wed Sep 15 2021
00:00<twb>didn't KMS make that largely stop being A Thing?
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00:01<easternonion>Also, I won't ask for support here if this is the case -- but could it be that I have a zfs pool and my current zfs version does not have official support for 5.14 yet? I figured I would compile a newer release once I was actually booted into 5.14 so it would use the right headers, etc.
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00:02-!-nickgaw is "Nick Gawronski" on #debian
00:02<easternonion>I guess my biggest goal in the trouble shooting process would be, how can I get the most verbose output when booting so I can attempt to find the problem?
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00:06<nickgaw>Hi, I have a full system backup and was wondering once I reinstall debian testing with full disk encryption if I do a file restore with all of my data how are the disks like / and /home mounted with encryption enabled and would it be easy to copy this configuration out so once I do my restore i could copy back that configuration and it would be just like my old setup just with the disk encryption?
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00:09<nickgaw>With encryption can you also automate the password mounting at boot if you wish to do so?
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00:11<tjcarter>nickgaw: you can
00:11<tjcarter>nickgaw: typically presence of a key in a USB port or similar
00:12<tjcarter>in fact, you can set it up to work with a key in a USB port or fall back on password if not present
00:12<nickgaw>I know it would not be the safest practice but could you just have it automount with the password if you wanted to do this?
00:12<tjcarter>potentially, but why encrypt in that case?
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00:13<nickgaw>The reason I ask is I am totally blind and use speech synthesis and am not totally sure if software speech would be enabled that early in the boot process so mainly for testing purposes could that be done?
00:14<nickgaw>If the software speech was enabled in the initrd would I be able to get spoken password prompts?
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00:15<tjcarter>I'd recommend the USB stick if you want to encrypt
00:16<tjcarter>you actually have the option to set up multiple keys
00:16<tjcarter>BTW, if you're not aware of it, voxin might be of interest
00:16<nickgaw>Is testing supported on this channel as I made a full backup with stable before upgrading to testing so I could fully restore it if needed?
00:17<tjcarter>I'm sure that won't be available that early in the boot process though
00:17<tjcarter>at least it's not here, and I haven't tried to figure out how to change that.
00:18<tjcarter>we generally send people to #debian-next for bookworm support
00:18<tjcarter>I'm literally about to faceplant on my keyboard now, but I have some interest in getting some speech working early in the boot process. In time to prompt for passphrase actually
00:19<tjcarter>eflite maybe, if not something like voxin for Nuance Tom/Samantha
00:19<nickgaw>I will write the debian-accessibility list about that question.
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00:19<tjcarter>I lurk, so if you find an interesting response, feel free to shout my general direction
00:20<nickgaw>the default is espeak with the speakup screen reader but I agree that there are better synthesizer.
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00:20<tjcarter>there is, but non-free, binary-only, and not small because they're made to be fairly universal across linux installs
00:21<jm_>looks like brltty has hooks for initramfs-tools
00:21<tjcarter>Thing is, it doesn't even need to be speech necessarily
00:21<tjcarter>it could just be some sound icons
00:21<tjcarter>give me a password, password incorrect, volume unlocked
00:22<tjcarter>That doesn't work if you have to enter multiple passwords, but … use the same one and cache it, sheesh
00:22<tjcarter>keyscript=decrypt_keyctl ftw
00:23<tjcarter>in fact that should be trivial to set up compared to even espeak or eflite
00:25<nickgaw>Are these other synthesizers in debian packaged already in non-free as I have that and contrib in sources.list?
00:25<tjcarter>if I can get mixer settings loaded and a copy of aplay (or even some raw audio I could send to an audio device
00:25<tjcarter>voxin has the speech-dispatcher config in Debian, but you have to go buy the specific speech engines you want at the oralux website
00:26<tjcarter>I think I paid like $35 or so?
00:26<nickgaw>ok by default it uses espeakup the software version of espeak with the speakup screen reader but you are saying that I can use other synthesizers if I want to pay for them right at the console without X windows?
00:27<tjcarter>worth it to have Nuance voices (if mobile ones) over really poor speech
00:27<tjcarter>I don't recall if speakup is set up for speech-dispatcher out of the gate
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00:28<tjcarter>happy to dig into it with you tomorrow though
00:28<nickgaw>I know it can be done but it takes some work to do it.
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00:29<nickgaw>I will do more research and see what i can find.
00:29<tjcarter>my recommendation for now is install without encryption if you don't need it, in any event. I've converted systems to LUKS after the fact before. It's not a novice task, but it's something that can be done with a little patience later on
00:29<nickgaw>the system is already installed without encryption can it be converted so I don't lose any data?
00:30<tjcarter>it requires some juggling, but yeah, I have done it.
00:30<nickgaw>What are the basic steps to do that?
00:33<tjcarter>you basically want to compress the volume you are installing to as much as possible, move it out of the way, create LUKS container in the remaining space, put your filesystems in it, create more space, move filesystems, etc.
00:33<tjcarter>easiest way is a backup and restore, but there are more incremental moves
00:33<nickgaw>ok is the encrypted filesystems mounted in the initrd?
00:34<twb>Or use ZFS where encryption is built into the FS at the volume layer :-)
00:34<tjcarter>twb: can you boot ZFS now?
00:34<tjcarter>nickgaw: initramfs or in GRUB actually
00:35<tjcarter>but grub doesn't really talk yet
00:35<nickgaw>I thought that ZFS was not open source and not included in debian or is it?
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00:35<tjcarter>source for ZFS exists. Licenses get complex, there's more than one ZFS tree under more than one license.
00:35<somiaj>,i zfs-dkms
00:35<judd>Package zfs-dkms (contrib/kernel, optional) in bullseye/amd64: OpenZFS filesystem kernel modules for Linux. Version: 2.0.3-9; Size: 2181.7k; Installed: 16898k; Homepage: https://zfsonlinux.org/
00:35<twb>tjcarter: no /boot must be unencrypted ZFS
00:36<tjcarter>twb: GRUB can boot LUKS encrypted ext4 though
00:36<twb>tjcarter: /boot is encrypted?
00:36<tjcarter>twb: no longer need /boot separate …
00:36<nickgaw>I thought /boot had to be unencrypted.
00:36<tjcarter>that won't work for nickgaw though
00:36<tjcarter>that was required with older GRUB
00:37<tjcarter>it's still how I do things
00:37<twb>I didn't think you could fit a LUKS driver into stage1.5
00:37<tjcarter>EFI
00:37<twb>oh so basically cheating
00:37<tjcarter>yyyyup
00:37<nickgaw>So you can encrypt the /boot partition if you wish to do so as if it just prompts for the boot password and it is the same I might not need speech does the system wait forever for the password to be entered?
00:37<tjcarter>But it's what Mint does now
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00:39<twb>Unfortunately /boot/efi/EFI/.../drivers_x64/zfs_x64.efi doesn't support Zstd or AES, so right now you still need a separate "bpool" for /boot
00:39<twb>I wanted to just make /boot be the EFI ESP, but dpkg has a bug that prevents that.
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00:40<nickgaw>This system is a master boot record system so does /boot need to be unencrypted?
00:40<twb>nickgaw: if you use ZFS, /boot must always be unencrypted at this time. I do not know about LUKS.
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00:41<nickgaw>I use ext4 for / and /home.
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00:43<nickgaw>When you enter the password does the system just wait forever for the password and what happens if it is not correct?
00:44<twb>As at Debian 9, for LUKS, you have 3 chances to type your passphrase in correctly. If you mess it up 3 times, the system just hangs forever.
00:44<twb>I haven't audited the zfs-dkms challenge
00:44<nickgaw>ok but what about waiting at the boot prompt does it just wait until you type it in?
00:44<twb>It's in the same initrd so it is probably equally awful
00:45<twb>nickgaw: it just waits forever for you to type it in
00:45<twb>nickgaw: if you install dropbear, you can optionally SSH in instead. This also works for zfs.
00:45<nickgaw>Is that compatible with openssh?
00:46<twb>mostly
00:46<twb>it doesn't support certificates
00:46<nickgaw>What about passwords or keys?
00:46<twb>yes it supports those
00:46<twb>Not 100% sure about ed25519
00:47<nickgaw>Is the encrypted filesystem mounted in the initrd?
00:47<twb>Yes
00:48<tjcarter>sorry was needed in the other room
00:49<tjcarter>nickgaw: I'm actually looking to pick up a yubikey and hope to set that up for LUKS
00:49<nickgaw>converting to encrypted ext4 with lux is not officially supported with all of your data intact right?
00:50<twb>nickgaw: I think it's possible but fiddly
00:51<tjcarter>twb: when I did it, I just played musical partitions
00:51<nickgaw>By data do you mean just user data or all applications to and how did you convert the initrd?
00:52<grawity>nickgaw: cryptsetup-reencrypt should be able to do it; in the past I successfully used luksipc
00:52<grawity>it is slightly risky
00:52<nickgaw>I have everything backed up so how would I do this and keep my data intact?
00:53<tjcarter>I knew I was going to have X partitions when I was done so I just moved filesystems around until I had everything LUKSified
00:54<nickgaw>So there is no one command that just does it keeping everything as it is as possible as it can be done?
00:54<grawity>no, you're looking at 3-4 commands minimum
00:55<twb>If you are maximum paranoid, buy a second HDD
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00:55<grawity>1 to encrypt stuff, 1-2 to install and reconfigure the bootloader, dunno about initrd
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00:55<nickgaw>I have everything backed up so what would I do to do this encryption?
00:55<twb>Honestly, if it was me, I'd do a fresh install and then copy user data back over from backups
00:56<twb>Otherwise you can't be sure the cleartext is all gone
00:56<tjcarter>twb: the issue is that the initramfs doesn't have a speech cue for the encrypted volume
00:56<nickgaw>I am not worried about that just want to do the encryption as quickly as possible so what would I do as root to do this?
00:57<twb>tjcarter: oh, nickgaw is visually impaired?
00:57<tjcarter>twb: totally blind
00:57<twb>oh yeah I have no idea how that would work, sorry
00:57<tjcarter>twb: if we can give him some sound icons for the passwd prompt, that should suffice
00:57<twb>There are hooks to make the scripts prompt plymouth, which is the "user friendly" splash stuff
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00:58<tjcarter>but that's a thing you want to have set up and working before LUKS is done
00:58<twb>Another thing you can try is the Fedora initrd, "apt install dracut"
00:58<nickgaw>From what I read espeakup does run in the encryption password prompt so it is doable but how do I do the convertion?
00:58<tjcarter>espeak should be possible
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00:58<twb>All my speech stuff is done well after boot so I don't know
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00:59<tjcarter>nickgaw: I'm way too tired to attempt this tonight, but I'm totally willing to see what it takes to get anything that should work talking tomorrow.
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00:59<tjcarter>I'd love to ditch plymouth
00:59<twb>(decryption prompt over serial ttyS0 also works but I don't know about brltty and similar)
00:59<tjcarter>my issue is that I can't read the text console before setfont is run
00:59<nickgaw>I just read some posts on debian-accessibility and it appears speech is enabled in the initrd on an encrypted system and does prompt for the password I just want to do the convertion to encrypted.
01:00<twb>nickgaw: if you have a spare computer, you could do a test install on that and see how it works
01:00<nickgaw>Yes I do.
01:00<twb>nickgaw: then if that has no problems, you are more confident about the real computer
01:00<tjcarter>or a spare drive
01:00<tjcarter>install to USB stick 😁
01:00<nickgaw>I could do a virtual machine to.
01:01<twb>yeah all those would also work but are less perfect because something might work by accident
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01:02<nickgaw>true
01:03<nickgaw>I will read more about it and be back in the morning.
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01:13<tjcarter>😮 epic4…
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01:13<tjcarter>I couldn't imagine using epic4 in 2021. I use too much UTF-8
01:15*tjcarter faceplants keyboard now
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01:23<Urk>I have some new insights to report as it relates to files not snowing up after being saved in sub-folders of the document folder. PDF appears to be showing up, but .odt files are not. .odt files are there because the dialogue box in Libreoffice shows they are there when trying to save another copy of the same file. I exported it to PDF, and now the pdf shows up, but no .odt I will report this problem to Libreoffice, but not sure if the issue is with
01:23<Urk>the vintage Thunar file manager, or something else.
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01:26<somiaj>It like your last issue is most likely an issue with your setup and not an issue with either thunar or libreoffice
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01:33<twb>Urk: "showing up" in thunar at all? Or in search results?
01:33<twb>Urk: if the former, try Ctrl+R to refresh thunar's view of that folder
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01:33<twb>if the latter, smack um... I think it's called "tracker" ? Background job
01:34<twb>"tracker-miner-fs"
01:34<twb>I thought "miner" was in there. Every time I see it I think I've been infected with a bitcoin miner
01:34<twb>(Bceause it's using 100% CPU)
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01:35<Urk>twb: A new folder, and its contents are not showing up in another sub-folder. My initial thoughts are that there might be moroe than one problem: 1) a problem with Thunar, and 2) compatibility problem with Libreoffice and the edition of Thunar that I am using.
01:35<Urk>twb: my last message was referring to Thunar. It just isnn't showing up, but does show up in the dialogue box of Libreoffice.
01:35<grawity>tbh 2) sounds *extremely* unlikely to me
01:36<grawity>as thunar and libreoffice do not interact with each other; they only interact with the common filesystem
01:36<twb>what does "sub-folder" mean here?
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01:36<twb>Just like ~/Documents/my-cool-project/evil-plan.docx
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01:42<Urk>I think this is a problem with Thunar. Its too old.
01:42<twb>Urk: that seems like jumping to conclusions to me
01:43<Urk>twb: It doesn't show up at all in Thunar, nor does a recently created folder so its a reasonable assumption.
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01:43<sk>I recently updated to debian 11
01:44<sk>my wifi lost after suspend or hibernation wakeup
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01:44<sk>i need to restart to get wifi agian
01:44<twb>Urk: did you refresh thunar?
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01:45<Urk>yes. Nothing happened.
01:45<twb>Urk: does the file name start with a "." ?
01:45<Urk>twb: No
01:45<twb>Urk: does the file show up in "ls" in a terminal emulator?
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01:50<Urk>twb: twb: Still checking. I have an illegal file name for a directory that needs to be changed and need to fix that first before running ls
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01:53<twb>"illegal" ? Are you using Debian? That sounds like a Windows thing.
01:54<twb>The only bytes not allowed in Debian filenames are NULL and '/', and you can't use those by accident
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01:55<Urk>twb: Both the sub-folder, and its contents are not showing up with LS. HOwever, a folder I pulled up on my desktop has them. Incidentally I found a lock file that doesn't belong in there, and wondering if you know what the following file means ,pd,grand-conjunction,14.09.2021 22:54,file:///home/pd/.config/libreoffice/4;
01:56<twb>Urk: OK so we have established this problem is not specific to thunar
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01:56<Urk>twb: How do you know?
01:56<twb>Urk: because you can reproduce the problem with ls
01:56<Urk>I see .~lock.05-20-2021.odt#
01:57<Urk>Why is invisibility with ls an indication this is not a Thunar issue?
01:58<Urk>Why do I have a lock file in the sub-folder?
01:58<Urk>Should I delete it?
01:58<Urk>twb: So is the problem with LibreOffice?
02:00<twb>Urk: OK so like... if you eat a turkey from your fridge, and you get sick, then you eat a chicken from your fridge, and you get sick... do you say "this is obviously the turkey's fault"
02:00<Urk>I am a vegetarian.
02:01<Urk>What is this lock file all about?
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02:01<twb>Urk: the lock file prevents anyone else from trying to edit your .odt at the same time
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02:02<Urk>twb: What do you think is causing my files to be invisible?
02:02<twb>I don't know
02:02<twb>I suspect it's something important you haven't thought to tell us
02:02<twb>like, this is all happening on a NAS that's using SMB1 and FAT32
02:02<twb>Too many possibilities for me to guess
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02:03<twb>We eliminated the *obvious* possibilities
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02:04<Urk>twb: Everything is extension 4. This is just a standard Debian 10.9 installation with kernel 4.19 Nothing exotic is going on here.
02:04<Urk>I do not have a Fat 32 partition on this drive.
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02:05<Urk>Problem is new, and wasn't an issue 6 weeks ago. Seems like a logical way to deal with it is to save the files to the desktop, and copy them to a folder. I might also try a symbiotic link from the desktop, but not sure how to set that up since the location of saved files changes constantly depending on data demands.
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02:06<Urk>All of the saved files are in sub-Folders of the Documents folder. I am running a 1 TB hard drive.
02:06<Urk>with 32GB of ram memory.
02:07<twb>Urk: have you looked in the usual places for error messages?
02:07<twb>Urk: journalctl --system -p4 --since=yesterday
02:07<twb>Urk: journalctl --user -p4 --since=yesterday
02:07<Urk>twb: What places do you recommend? Like msg? Jounralctl?
02:07<twb>Urk: cat ~/.Xsession-errors
02:07<Urk>I will check them now, but its getting late, and I just need to checkin online to a doctor's appointment, and would refer to look these things up tomorrow.
02:07<twb>I can't see what it could be, but there might be a smoking gun in there
02:08<somiaj>I belive it is .xsession-errors, not capitalized
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02:22<Urk>twb: I will run these commands tomorrow, and report back to you what I find. For now, I am able to save files to the desktop, and attach them to outgoing documents so saving to the Desktop before copying to a folder is the approach I am taking.
02:23<twb>somiaj: thanks
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02:23<twb>FWIW apps started via thunar, when systemd is installed, get xsession-errors redirected into journal anyway
02:24<Urk>Incidentally there might be a problem with the permission of the Documents folder. It has read, and write, but not execute.
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02:25<twb>that is definitely the problem
02:26<twb>Urk: in general the first part should say "drwx" for directories (folders) in your home. Usually "drwxr-xr-x" or "drwx------".
02:26<Urk>twb: I will check all of this tomorrow.
02:27<twb>Urk: files should say "-rw-" typically or "-rwx" for compiled programs.
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02:31<sk>can anyone help me regarding debian 11 lost metwork after wakeup from suspend or sleep
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02:31<ari_>i'm jumping ship from Opensuse and a friend recommended I install Debian 10 - will it be that much of a disadvantage if I not opt for the Bullseye?
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02:56<twb>ari_: Debian 10 is out of date. Install stable Debian 11 bullseye unless you have a really good reason not to
02:56<twb>sk: is your network managed by Network-Manager, systemd-networkd, or ifupdown?
02:57<ari_>twb: thanks :)
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03:08<sk>twb: how to check that
03:09<twb>sk: ok first is this wired, wireless, or both?
03:09<twb>sk: what's in /etc/network/interfaces?
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03:09<sk>wifi
03:10<sk>ifupdown
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03:10<twb>sk: you see config managing your wifi in /etc/network/interfaces?
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03:12<sk>i will check now i am on in 10 dual boot so i need to boot into ebian 11 to check . so please wait . thanks
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04:28<sk>so debian 11 loose wifi after suspend or sleep any help
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04:31<jm_>you were asked to describe how your wifi is configured
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04:33<sk>sir i have a mediatek driver before debian 11 i install the driver and it works fine but now kernel incude the driver so no need to this but when pc suspend it never able to use wifi no network show
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04:34<jm_>try unloading the module before suspend and then load it again after resume
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04:35<jm_>it also makes sense to inspect logs, so journalctl
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04:37<sk>ok now rebooted my system else no network no irc
04:37<sk>so i will try when suspwnd
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04:37<jm_>well you could try reloading the module at that stage
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04:43<sk>how
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04:45<jm_>the command to remove a module is rmmod <modulename> - to find the name «ls -l /sys/class/net/*/device/driver»
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04:50<sk>ok then i have to reload them
04:50<twb>if the wifi chip is cabled over USB, you may need a udev rule to force the USB bus to restart cleanly across suspend
04:50<twb>This used to be very common when USB3 was new
04:50<sk>no onboard wifi in laptop
04:50<twb>sk: it's probably internally either PCIe (modern) or USB (old)
04:51<twb>sk: you can find it in "lspci" or "lsusb"
04:51<sk>lspci
04:52<twb>Is it this chip? https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/dual-band-wireless-ac-8265-brief.pdf
04:52<twb>You said mediatek but I didn't think they made stand-alone wifi chips
04:53<sk>mt7630 mediatek
04:53<sk>sys/class/net/wlo1/device/driver -> ../../../../bus/pci/drivers/mt76x0e
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04:59<twb>cool
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05:00<twb>yeah I suggest rmmod+modprobe, and if that fails power off+auto or off+on. If that fails, start poking at your supplicant
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06:42<versus34>hello, i have installed debian 11 on ultrabook Lenovo X1 Nano, but i have some problem with freeze when it enters in "sleep mode"
06:43<versus34>from what i have read the problem is due to the wwan mobile broadband card due to wrong drivers. A solution could be the one suggested in the archlinux forum and it would be this:
06:43<versus34>https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Nano
06:44<versus34>anyone can help me for a better solution?
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07:09<paktosan>Hi, I currently have trouble with a few servers running bullseye. When I plug in a VGA monitor, I cann see the boot screen. But when Linux switches resoultion all monitors I tried, complain about unsupported modes. I tried a Full HD Monitor, an old 4:3 flat screen and an old tube monitor.
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07:33<paktosan>We worked around the issue by setting the kernel vga option.
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07:48<petn-randall>versus34: You could build a newer kernel from upstream sources, and install that. The page hints that it works with newer kernels.
07:49<versus34>how build a newer kernel? can you post a tutorial?
07:49<versus34>or link whit explanation?
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07:56<petn-randall>versus34: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.kernel-compilation.html
07:57<versus34>ok thanks
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07:58<petn-randall>versus34: That's written by one of the Debian developers. Only thing I'd do different is get the newest kernel from https://kernel.org (5.14.4 currently).
07:59<versus34>ok, thanks very much!!!
08:00<petn-randall>versus34: It'll take 30-90 minutes to compile, depending on how beefy your machine is. And the last step is installing the .deb package that gets created and rebooting. Let us know if it solved your problem!
08:01<versus34>ok you are great!!!
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08:11<jkc>make deb-pkg is a thing in the kernel???
08:13<petn-randall>jkc: make is a program you install, and it reads the Makefile from the kernel. If that's what you mean.
08:16<jkc>Rephrased: How long has deb-pkg been a target in the kernel's Makefile?
08:16<jkc>petn-randall: I realize that my initial statement gave you no context, so I had to resist the urge to go "wow, I know what make is." :P
08:18<bremner>anybody else getting false positive renewal notices with certbot / letsencrypt?
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08:25<bremner>OIC, I think I confused letsencrypt by adding a name to a cert.
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08:29<jkc>I've had that happen to me, too.
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08:31<bremner>it's even in the letsencrypt faq, so credit where credit is due
08:31<bremner>or blame, depending on how you look at it
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08:37<petn-randall>bremner: Yes, appending a new domain to the config will do that, which always is very confusing for me. Oh well.
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08:39<petn-randall>jkc: Ah ok, I always assume people are quite newbies here and try to be as helpful as possible. `make deb-dpkg` has been there for quite a while now, I only found out by chance about it after `make-kpkg` was removed from Debian.
08:40<jkc>petn-randall: It was a valid assumption! Like I said, I provided ZERO context.
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08:59<grove>You can confuse letsencrypt even more by splitting a cert (i.e. mae two seperate certs for two names that were previously on one cert)
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09:03<samarth>yl,
09:03<samarth>eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
09:03<petn-randall>samarth: Cat on the keyboard?
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09:04<samarth>exe files dont work
09:05<petn-randall>samarth: yes yes, but they do get unemployment benefits.
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09:07<samarth>exe files dont work
09:08<samarth>3#debian
09:08<petn-randall>samarth: What are you trying to do?
09:08<samarth>instaaliing brave browser
09:09<sussudio>pretty sure that's not in debian.
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09:10<petn-randall>Are they going to quit and rejoin every few minutes now?
09:10<sussudio>probably, since they're from india.
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09:15<easternonion>I compiled a mainline 5.14 kernel, and installed it, but cannot boot into it. There is a menuentry on grub's splashscreen. Some text scrolls and then the monitor goes black and stops receiving video input. I have taken photos of the output when booting and nothing stands out. How can I get the most verbose output/log the whole thing to determine what is causing this?
09:16<easternonion>I can boot into my 5.10 kernel just fine.
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09:18<petn-randall>easternonion: you can remove "quiet" from the grub entry, and it should give you more info during boot.
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09:23<easternonion>i have but i still can't find anything useful
09:24<easternonion>to be fair, some of it goes by too fast even to catch on video. is there a way to log the output?
09:26<omegatron>maybe this helps: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.0/dev-tools/kgdb.html ?
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09:26<omegatron>it gets easier, if you have another machine to send the kernel's debug messages to ...
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10:20<Tj>if easternonion returns, ask them to pastebin the kernel .config - I was helping recover complete boot ability last night for them
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10:42<pirata>IDENTIFY
10:43<sney>you need to /query nickserv
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11:48-!-jhamlin is "James J. Hamlin" on #debian
11:50<jhamlin>Hi all. I'm wondering how to get on the cli the number of upgradable packages without having root. Methods I've come up with require updating the package repository first, for which I need permissions. Would like to be able to do it as user.
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11:51<sney>you can set apt to update automatically on a schedule, I have mine set via APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
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11:52<sney>along with that, check_apt from monitoring-plugins-basic will show the number of available updates as an unprivileged user
11:54<jhamlin>Ah great, thank you. I had seen reference to check_apt, but couldn't seem to find where it came from (think I was searching for check-apt with a hyphen by mistake).
11:54<sney>yeah, and it's meant to be called by other services, so it's not in PATH. /usr/lib/nagios/plugins
11:55<jhamlin>Ah got it.
11:56<jmcnaught>If you just want to see which packages are upgradable "apt list --upgradable" does not require root.
11:56<jhamlin>Well thanks again and thanks to all involved in Debian 11 and supporting this channel, which in my mind is one additional thing that makes debian so great. Best release yet :)
11:56<jhamlin>Thanks!
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12:34<mooff>agreed jhamlin :D
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12:49<grove>You can confuse letsencrypt even more by splitting a cert (i.e. mae two seperate certs for two names that were previously on one cert)
12:50<grove>Oops, that was a unintended repeat comment (I pressed up+enter in the wrong window)
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12:56<jepler>developer.arm.com has started to be served with a certificate that debian bullseye firefox-esr, wget, curl all don't accept. any advice? It is a legitimate certificate recognized by ff92.
12:57<jepler>(firefox 92 manually installed from mozilla)
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13:03<Sqrt{not}>jepler, is your date/time correct? that cert just became valid today
13:04<jepler>Sqrt{not}: yes. firefox 92 accepts, firefox esr 78.14 rejects, both on same debian bullseye system
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13:04<jepler>(it's also not just me, we started seeing it on ubuntu-based ci systems earlier today but this channel is about debian which I am using)
13:05<Tj>jepler: the reason is the "GlobalSign RSA OV SSL CA 2018" intermediate isn't in the certificate chain, and isn't signed by the GlobalSign ROOT CAs installed
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13:06<jepler>apparently major systems (windows / mac / _non-esr 74_ firefox all accept it :-/ though it does cause qualys to give them a B for in incomplete certificate chain
13:06<Tj>jepler: see https://support.globalsign.com/ca-certificates/intermediate-certificates/organizationssl-intermediate-certificates
13:07<Tj>"Note: In some cases, the web server may need to be configured with the GlobalSign R3-R5 Cross Certificate or possibly with Root R3 or Root R5 as part of the standard configuration process."
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13:07<jepler>yeah I'll just phone up my contact at arm :-/ i'm sure they'll fix it in no time
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13:07<jepler>though if they broke all the embedded arm ci on github, as it currently appears, perhaps they'll hear our please.
13:07<jepler>s/please/pleas/
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13:09<Tj>Got a broken arm? :P
13:11<jepler>hopefully it's a simple fracture
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13:18<atperezzz>Greetings.
13:20<petn-randall>hi atperezzz
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13:23<atperezzz>When installing Debian 11, can I simply choose btrfs for the root partition in an SSD disk without creating sub volumes? (Sorry, I have no experience, having used only ext filesystems so far)
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13:24<another>why wouldn't you want subvolumes?
13:24<another>(no idea what the deb installer does)
13:25<atperezzz>mmm... so it is desirable to use them
13:26<another>the are advantages in having / in a subvolume
13:27<atperezzz>I will have to read more, as I don´t really understand
13:29<atperezzz>Can I create just one subvolume and have / there?
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13:29<another>yes. Subvolumes are kinda like folders with special features
13:30<petn-randall>atperezzz: I believe you need at least /boot on ext[234] because grub can't read btrfs filesystems.
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13:30<another>so if you have / in a subvolume, it is in it's own folder and you can snapshot the whole "folder" quite easy
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13:30<atperezzz>Ahhh... interesting
13:30<another>grove: grub can. don't know if debians version can though
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13:33<grove>another: ?
13:33<another>if they write corrupted images
13:33<another>oh. sorry. wrong channel
13:34<another>and wrong highlight. urg
13:34<another>petn-randall: grub can. don't know if debians version can though
13:34<petn-randall>another: right channel, wrong highlight then? :)
13:36<bremner>I read conflicting information for whether nfsv4 needs a single root export dir (between the wiki and /usr/share/nfs-common/README.Debian.nfsv4). Does anyone have recent experience with this?
13:36<another>"<another> if they write corrupted images " <-- this was to the wrong channel
13:36<bremner>normally I'd follow /usr/share/doc, but it talks about a "Recent 2.6 kernel"
13:36<petn-randall>Ok, I didn't know that grub already has btrfs support. Thought it was still in development.
13:37<another>bremner: FWIW, I bind mount my NFS exports in /srv/nfs and export that
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13:42<Sqrt{not}>jepler, weird --- FF esr 78.13.0 on my nearby stretch box accepts it just fine also.
13:42<jepler>Sqrt{not}: that is weird
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14:49<sparky4>I am having issues with bumblebee and the nividia card
14:49<sparky4>it worked fine in debian 10 but broke during the upgrade
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14:51<sney>some xorg changes in bullseye make prime offload the better approach for optimus, see the first entry on https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus
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14:58<sparky4>https://paste.debian.net/1211891/ when i try to run a command __NV_PRIME_RENDER_OFFLOAD=1 __GLX_VENDOR_LIBRARY_NAME=nvidia minetest
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14:59<sney>did you remove bumblebee as the wiki states? and is the nvidia proprietary driver built and loaded?
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15:00<sparky4>not yet let me do that
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15:03<sparky4>okay i purged it
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15:51<sparky4>still the same error
15:52<sparky4>i purged bumblebee
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16:28<Rogue_Spider>ive been having trouble starting konqueror since version 9 can this be fixed? https://paste.debian.net/1211901
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16:31<jmcnaught>Rogue_Spider: can you run it as a regular (non-root) user?
16:32<Rogue_Spider>now how is that an option? there is no ono root user
16:32<sney>running any gui app as root is not recommended, and it's not a surprise that this one has a problem. however, since the bug is in chromium, maybe the option is formatted differently for konqueror, or there's some other option you need to set in order for it to be passed to the chromium engine
16:33<Rogue_Spider>grab your rubber gloves and condoms to play with your self fun thats the problem
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16:33<sney>k
16:33<blast007>!next
16:33<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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16:42<FLHerne>That was an unusually rapid switch
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16:44<sney>wonder if they had the same reply from some kde channel elsewhere
16:44<Tenkawa>this sentence boggled me "˜/Rogue_Spider 4:32> now how is that an option? there is no ono root user"
16:44<Tenkawa>that just won't work
16:45<sney>the attitude says they think "don't X as root" is just finger-wagging, but it's like a technical limitation in X, dawg
16:46<sney>"use the privilege separation as designed" "what are you, some kind of communist"
16:46<sney>/ot
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16:47<somiaj>I have lots of chroots that don't have any non-root user (beyond the system ones)
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16:48<sney>a chroot or container etc is a way different thing than a desktop/laptop interactively logging into a gui and running a browser
16:48<somiaj>Though I don't like third party software that requires root ot run some gui to install..:/
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16:50<LeLutin>with a system that boots using EFI, do ppl have tricks for making it easier to boot with just one disk on a system using raid1 for the os? I've found descriptions of using a raid1 array for the efi partition but with 0.9 or 1.0 mdadm metadata. if I don't use an array, do you think I could cause confusion on the system if I set the same partition guid and use that in fstab to find the ...
16:50<LeLutin>... partition?
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17:09<mooff>the first time i saw an installer that was a 200 megabyte shell script i laughed out loud
17:10<dvs>O_O
17:10<ach>dup.
17:10<mooff>it's a compression format, of course
17:10<sney>yes, 20 lines of shell script with a lot of binary tacked on to the back of it
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17:11<mooff>i think it's from the Unix program 'compress'
17:11<sarnold>shar
17:11<sarnold>compress was .Z
17:11<mooff>sney, yes, but it sounds more ominous / cooler if you say "200 megabyte shell script"
17:11<mooff>shar...
17:12<sney>I'm pretty sure it can be a tarball even. though whenever I see "linux instructions: curl http://example.org/linux/notavirus.sh | sudo bash" I usually close the tab and find a different program, or go to their github page instead
17:14<bremner>so how much of a pain is it to admin kerberos just for nfsv4 authentication?
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17:14<Leonid>hallo
17:14<Leonid>need help
17:14<ach>!ask
17:14<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
17:14<Leonid>ach i update debian 10 to 11
17:15<Leonid>have problem whith starting apache2
17:15<Leonid>AH00526: Syntax error on line 13 of /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/irc.fromhell.ee-le-ssl.conf:
17:15<Leonid>Sep 16 00:09:55 fromhell.ee apachectl[30294]: SSLCertificateFile: file '/etc/letsencrypt/live/irc.fromhell.ee/fullchain.pem' does not exist or is empty
17:16<ach>looks like you file load a ssl certificate?
17:17<Leonid>ach what you meen >
17:17<Leonid>?
17:17<sney>do your 'certbot renew' and see if it re-populates
17:17<mooff>Leonid: Apache has trouble reading the file. either it doesn't exist, or the Apache user doesn't have permission to read it
17:17<ach>very suspicious for an update
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17:18<Leonid>mooff you tell i must remove this file
17:18<Leonid>?
17:19<mooff>try running: sudo certbot renew
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17:20<Leonid>oh thanks
17:21<Leonid>and other question
17:21-!-sep [~sep@2a05:6d40:0:340:ae1f:6bff:fef6:4afe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:21<Leonid>i was runing ircd , now i whant to run it,
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17:21-!-sep is "Ronny Aasen <ronny@aasen.cx>" on #debian #ceph #nuug
17:21<Leonid>ircd: version hybrid-8.2.24+OptiLan-p1(20180404_8492)
17:21<Leonid>ircd: pid 30646
17:21<Leonid>ircd: running in background mode from /home/ircd/ircd
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17:22<Leonid>bit no process running
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17:22<coalchar>noob here. compiled a low latency 5.14 kernel from mainline and everything seemed fine until boot. problem seems to be with my graphics card. everything goes black when i start to try and boot into it. i compiled headers, do i need a newer amdgpu module and to recompile? what might cause my gpu to fail at starttime?
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17:24<sney>coalchar: amdgpu doesn't need headers, just firmware.
17:25<tjcarter>And it's normal for there to be half a dozen "missing" firmwares for amdgpu
17:25<coalchar>which of course should be in the kernel, right? i didn't use debian's 5.14 source package, which maybe was a mistake but i am interested to see if i can get this thing running now
17:25<sney>the firmware in debian might not be new enough to work with a 5.14, you might need a current tarball from https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git in that case
17:26<sney>there's an install script inside the tarball, or you can just dump the whole thing into /lib/firmware
17:26<tjcarter>AMD develops linux drivers themselves. Some new/unreleased hardware has driver support before firmware files get published
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17:26<sney>coalchar: did your gpu work with the debian kernel?
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17:27<coalchar>i am running 5.10 and everything works fine, it's 5.14 that fails.
17:27<coalchar>shouldn't the tarball from kernel.org pull the latest firmware? or is it sourcing it off my system when I compile?
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17:27<tjcarter>kernel tarball doesn't include firmware
17:28<sney>firmware files are not compiled into the source tree, they sit on your disk separately
17:28<tjcarter>those are separate and often non-free
17:29<tjcarter>it's also possible if you're not using Debian's kernel-handbook instructions, your kernel isn't set up the way Debian sets them up
17:30<spawacz>I've got a problem
17:30<spawacz>i want to pipe 2 commands that both require password before they start
17:30<spawacz>and i do not want to type it in the command
17:30<spawacz>what do i do?
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17:35<tjcarter>spawacz: what commands, what're you trying to accomplish?
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17:41<coalchar>sney: so would I need to update the firmware on my system and then recompile against it?
17:41<sney>no, they sit on your disk separately.
17:42<spawacz>i want to backup a postgresql database, pipe it through lzma to compress and pipe to openssl to encrypt
17:42<sney>you would download them from the git.kernel.org link from earlier, and put them in /lib/firmware. as said previously.
17:42<spawacz>pg_dump -hlocalhost -dauth_db -Upostgres | lzma | openssl aes-256-cbc -e -in - -out db_dump.lzma.enc -pbkdf2
17:43<spawacz>both pg_dump and openssl need a pass
17:43<coalchar>ok technical question out of curiosity. if i wouldn't have to compile against it how does the kernel access the firmware if my disk has FDE? /lib/ is encrypted before I unlock it but it needs to utilize that graphics driver I assume.
17:44<sney>I think they end up in the initrd, along with the modules that use them
17:44<spawacz>I made it work by reading postgresql man, it respects ~/.pgpass file with the credentials so only openssl asks me this time
17:45<spawacz>but i dont know if that's secure to store the plaintext password in such file...
17:45<coalchar>I think it is the gpu because video output drops but I am not going into a display manager. I log in and start x from a terminal. The video cuts out a second after I see the prompt to unlock my drive
17:45<coalchar>could the firmware actually cause something as basic as that to fail ?
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17:46<sney>amdgpu needs firmware for multiple video functions like setting modes higher than VGA resolution, etc. it's common for it to fail if it can't find the firmware files.
17:46<sney>you would also get an error about this in dmesg, but it's a bit of a catch-22 because you have no video to see the error
17:47<spawacz>tjcarter: anyways I will read on using pub/priv keys with openssl so it won't prompt and I will only have to supply the public key for encryption part so it will be OK
17:47<sney>if you can boot with nomodeset, then missing firmware is almost definitely the culprit
17:47<tjcarter>spawacz: You might be able to use a key agent
17:48<somiaj>spawacz: one nice thing about a seperatefile is you can make it only readable by that user. Question, is this database accessable remotely or only locally?
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17:50<spawacz>only locally, of course
17:51<spawacz>what is a key agent?
17:51<spawacz>and yes, the postgres yells when the permissions are not 600
17:52<somiaj>spawacz: It appears postgresql will ignore .pgpass files that aren't 600, and since it is only locally, I can't think of any method that would be better, just make sure this pass isn't used in other places.
17:53<somiaj>that is someone would have to be on your system to exploit using this pass, and any method of giving access without manually typing in a password could give someone with local privlages access
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17:54<Sqrt{not}>coalchar, can you accomplish anything _before_ you startx. can you debug, or see what is happening in the logs, without starting x ?
17:55<coalchar>no not at all, it all crashes before I can even unlock luks
17:55<tuxd3v>hello is anybody considering this powerpc laptop?
17:55<tuxd3v>https://www.powerpc-notebook.org
17:57<Sqrt{not}>[14:45:29] <coalchar> I think it is the gpu because video output drops but I am not going into a display manager. I log in and start x from a terminal. The video cuts out a second after I see the prompt to unlock my drive
17:57<Sqrt{not}>why do you need to start x ?
17:58<somiaj>spawacz: https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/5D90A4A7A6AC31449EDDBE18CD1CD0507C26686B%40szxeml521-mbx.china.huawei.com some discussion but in general any method pass/key/hash you provide to gain access to the database automatically could be used by anyone who gains that pass/key/hash.
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17:59<somiaj>spawacz: one layer is to use a special user that only has read privlages for this, at least this way someone can't write to the database, though it does appear your goal is to keep the info encyprted.
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17:59<tjcarter>spawacz: key agents are things like ssh-agent or GPA for GnuPG (and ssh) where you put a token in your environment for how to access them, and the have THEM store the credentials to open your keys
18:00<sney>tuxd3v: it might be interesting once they have hardware, according to that site there aren't even physical prototypes yet.
18:00<coalchar>sorry I confused my language there. Usually that is the behavior that is not what is occuring now. That was to show I was confused that the firmware being oudated might be causing this. Because I login in from a terminal I would assume that it doesn't need anything fancy - its super low level graphics rendering. If I'm not in X I figured I wouldn't need the most up to date firmware for my gpu, especially when my old grub
18:00<coalchar>version handles it fine
18:00<coalchar>Sqrt{not}: ^
18:00<tjcarter>spawacz: it's useful so that you don't have to keep typing passphrases to unlock ssh or gnupg keys, but the passphrases aren't stored anywhere on-disk.
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18:01<sney>coalchar: firmware is also used outside of X, to display higher resolution text consoles
18:01<sney>a black screen instead of the high resolution console is a common symptom of missing firmware files.
18:01<spawacz>I need to read on that, thanks :)
18:01<tjcarter>sney: *grumblegrumble* can't read my stupid initrd console
18:02<tjcarter>downside of efi *sigh*
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18:03<tjcarter>ohhh, your monitor can display fhuge resolution, let's start your OS with that!
18:03<sney>I'm pretty sure there are boot arguments to set it lower than the detected KMS resolution
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18:03<tjcarter>sney: not always
18:03<sney>tried that already eh
18:03<tjcarter>sney: I've installed Debian on Apple hardware, yaknow
18:04<sney>ah yes, the inflexibility of fruit
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18:04<coalchar>nomodeset right?
18:05<Sqrt{not}>coalchar, this is the same system you went through rebuilding the boot image inside a chroot with Tj earlier?
18:05<tjcarter>nah what I want to do I think is either get the kernel to use the appropriate font (unlikely) or figure out how to get a setfont run on the initramfs pretty close to first thing it does
18:05<coalchar>haha yeah Sqrt{not}
18:05<tjcarter>and possibly run it again as soon as it loads the amdgpu module
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18:06<tjcarter>Actually, last night I got the notion of adding support to the cryptsetup initramfs stuff to play sound icons
18:06<coalchar>I just installed newest firmware from that source. Going to update-initramfs and then reboot to see what happens
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18:11<coalchar>can't update initramfs. "missing /lib/modules/initrd.img-5.14.3 W: Can't find modules.builtin.modinfo depmod: ERROR: Bad version passed initrd.img-5.14.3" and a few others
18:12<coalchar>Ensure all necessary drivers are built into the linux image
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18:12<coalchar>that sounds to me like I do have to compile it again, right?
18:12<sney>yes, you probably missed something in your configuration.
18:13<sney>it helps to start from the config in /boot with a 'make oldconfig'
18:13<coalchar>thats what i did :(
18:13<sney>then go back to the menu and find what you disabled that you shouldn't have
18:13<sney>only you can know, because you're the one doing it. take your time.
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18:28<johnjay>hey does anybody run bullseye in virtualbox at all?
18:28<johnjay>i think i have a problem where the system is freezing completely
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18:38<johnjay>still testing setting in vbox but i think it might be related to display or screen locking
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18:45<crawler>I am unable to list package files in here https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/python3-certbot-apache
18:45<crawler>Is this a bug?
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18:56<another>crawler: I noticed it a while ago, too. Seems to only apply to packages from the 'all' architecture
18:57<crawler>Any idea where should we report that issue?
18:58<crawler>ah, the mail list at the bottom debian-www@lists.debian.org
18:59<sney>you can also file bugs against the pseudopackage www.debian.org. There may already be a report about this one
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19:06<crawler>It is already reported here, and marked as fixed by a git commit dated 23 of Aug 2021 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=977006
19:06<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/977006 in www.debian.org (closed, patch): «packages.debian.org: filelist is currently broken for some packages»; severity: important; opened: 2020-12-09; last modified: 2021-08-23.
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19:08<truth>Can any package send an informational email if the content pointed to by a certain URL changes?
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19:13<twb>truth: curl https://example.com | b2sum >before; curl https://example.com | b2sum >after; if cmp before after; mail --subject "You've changed"abuse@example.com; fi
19:14<twb>truth: do you want this for a FISA canary?
19:14<Hash>May want to script that into a cron maybe to it polls timly
19:14<Hash>timely*
19:14<twb>Hash: I would actually use something that can send appropriate If-Newer-Than h2 headers &c. wget2 e.g.
19:14<Hash>*nod*
19:15<truth>twb, Thanks. It's not for a FISA canary.
19:15<Hash>truth: no such package exists but tools you can glue together to do the same thing
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19:21<truth>Hash, What would you glue together?
19:21-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*@2a01:cb11:436:b200:222:4dff:fe87:a4] by debchange
19:22<twb>truth: I gave you an example implementation already
19:22<truth>twb, Yes. Thank you.
19:23<Hash>I'd probably use python or something, make a script to poll the site periodically to look for change, and if there is one, use a mail module to send the mail
19:23<Hash>then put in cron
19:23<Hash>His is bash and piping (pure unix) example
19:23<Hash>which is also gluing (more gluingif you ask me)
19:24<twb>Unfortunately the h2 clients in python are pretty garbage at this time
19:24<twb>If you are only doing 1 URL at 1 check per day, it doesn't matter
19:24-!-dob1 [~dob1@0002bdab.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24<twb>If you want to check a million URLs every minute, it's worth fiddle-farting around to get something clean
19:25<Hash>and concurrency friendly
19:25<Hash>go maybe. Otherwise forking or whatever you have to do. gets dirty without something nice like go.
19:25<Hash>\o/
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19:27<twb>eyeroll
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19:34<jkc>I mean, that's exactly the kind of thing that go was made for.
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19:36<spacewolf62>Is it possible to get lynx-ssl to run under debian bullseye?
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19:42<jmcnaught>spacewolf62: not exactly sure what lynx-ssl is but the lynx package's description in bullseye says it can do HTTPS
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19:45<spacewolf62>Ran dpkg -s lynx and got Conflicts: lynx-ssl
19:46<coalchar>well i installed firmware recompiled zfs modules and then reinstalled headers and image
19:46<coalchar>rebooted
19:46<spacewolf62>your right, i missed that....sorry
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19:47<coalchar>i've tried twice now. one time i had the chance to decrypt luks and it fully decrypted then after it finished it lost video feed. i will note that it was outputting a 1920x1080 terminal, higher than vga, so i think the new firmware is working in that respect
19:49<coalchar>tried again just now and again got a prompt and a 1920x1080 terminal but it didn't last long enough, suddenly dropped video feed.i will also note that when im turning off my pc at that point via the power button it only requires a tap whereas normally i would have to hold it in for a few seconds, as if it is not in a regular state behind the scenes so maybe its not just the firmware?
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19:50<coalchar>although it is specifically a 5.14 issue. 5.10 boots no problem.
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19:55<twb>coalchar: it sounds like you have about 4 issues at once?
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19:57<coalchar>i think there is really one issue and these are all symptoms related to it.
19:57<coalchar>right now the main trouble is that any attempt to boot into 5.14 eventually loses video input
19:57<coalchar>usually within 10seconds
19:57<twb>coalchar: does the host still respond to ping/ssh?
19:57<twb>coalchar: or, can you use its serial line?
19:58<twb>wait is this nvidia GPU? If it is and you're not using nouveau driver, I give up now
19:59<coalchar>nope amd :)
20:00<coalchar>using amdgpu. I don't have enough time to log in so I couldn't tell you if it responds to a ping. I don't have a serial port hahah
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20:06<twb>coalchar: the computer turns itself off?
20:06<coalchar>the monitor does. the computer continues to run but as noted, it turns off instantly which it will not do when i am logged in or even at the tty to login
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20:10<twb>coalchar: so why would that affect your ability to ping or ssh into the host?
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20:10<coalchar>because I have to decrypt my drives first
20:10<twb>ah OK
20:11<twb>So this is still inside the ramdisk?
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20:12<coalchar>yea / boot isnt encrypted its not fde
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20:13<twb>is the monitor turning off before, or after, pivot_root?
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20:33<coalchar>twb: I am a novice, so I don't know how to answer that.
20:34<twb>OK. Let's try some wild-arse guesses
20:34<twb>Do you know how to edit the boot arguments? The stuff that is something like "initrd=initrd.img quiet splash"
20:34<coalchar>yes
20:35<twb>OK. Remove "splash", add "break" or "break=bottom", change "quiet" to "loglevel=1"
20:35<twb>See if that interrupts things before the monitor turns off
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20:35<twb>"break" drops you at a recovery shell at the start of the initrd. "break=bottom" does the same, but at the END of the initrd process (just before pivot_root).
20:36<twb>If your / filesystem is LUKS'd, it should be decrypting during the initrd.
20:36<twb>Another thing you can try is to install dropbear, then do LUKS decryption remotely over ssh
20:36<coalchar>which is a little difficult because i am on my uni network
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20:38<coalchar>twb: ! so that worked and dropped me in the busybox shell
20:38<coalchar>break=bottom i mean. i didn't have splash
20:39<coalchar>monitor hasn't died yet so it must be after pivot_root
20:39<twb>OK
20:39<twb>So your real root filesystem currently exists at /root
20:39<twb>This is a way to repair stuff if normal boot is buggered.
20:39<twb>But we don't know HOW it's buggerd yet
20:40<twb>So next step is "fault isolation"
20:40<twb>Look at logs and stuff. If you could SSH into this host while it was broken, that would help.
20:40<twb>If not, you can try booting back into a working state and then looking at the previous boot.
20:40<twb>e.g. journalctl --boot=-1 -p4
20:41<coalchar>i wish i could but i don't think i will be able to because of uni network
20:41<twb>I'd also check Xorg.0.log or so
20:41<twb>Unless splash was the problem, it's happening after pivot_root. So next candidate is X/wayland.
20:42<coalchar>i didn't have splash,
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20:42<coalchar>twb: I will check the Xorg log, but I don't think that will be of much use because it isn't running X when it crashes
20:43<coalchar>I don't even get the chance to start x i dont even have enough time to decrypt luks sometimes
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20:43<coalchar>so its weird because usually whats the difference between the end of the init process then and now.
20:43<twb>coalchar: X doesn't auto-start at boot for you?
20:43<coalchar>no i log in through tty
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20:44<coalchar>i promise im not a poser, i just log in and startx manually because sometimes i dont need to use x on this machine
20:44<twb>coalchar: fair enough
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20:45<coalchar>doesn't the init process hang until i enter the password to decrypt luks and then it finishes when it mounts?
20:46<coalchar>so why would it crash before init is even over?
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20:46<coalchar>unless I am incorrect and the init process completes in the background while waiting for you to decrypt?
20:46<twb>coalchar: if / is LUKS, decryption happens before init starts
20:46<twb>Oh you mean "initialization" the concept, not /sbin/init the program
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20:47<coalchar>yes
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20:52<coalchar>what could i do from this shell that might help us with diagnostics? no logs are jumping out as being helpful
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20:57<twb>Not sure
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20:59<coalchar> <Tj> I create a virtual machine with its storage device being the /dev/nvme0n1 and test booting to a kernel + initrd (but not the entire OS!) by manually altering the linux vmlinuiz... line to have "break=init" on it - that stops the initrs just before it starts the real init system
20:59<coalchar><Tj> I use virt-manager, create the guest but choose "customise " before booting it for the first time, and then on the Overview section choose UEFI boot (not BIOS)
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21:01<coalchar>tj recommended booting into 5.10 and then making a vm using 5.14 kernel and initrd and debugging from there, but I don't fully follow his instructions for setting the storage device to the hard disk, since the /dev/nvme0n1 is a disk my hard drive also uses and some documentation strongly advises against doing this.
21:01<coalchar>I believe he recommended this in order to use the uefi boot from your system and debugging
21:01<coalchar>i think that would be my best bet
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21:07<johnjay>ok the virtualbox problem seems to be with debian and power management
21:07<coalchar>john
21:07<johnjay>i get a frozen black screen no response at all. but when I pick "ACPI Shutdown" from the Machine menu debian resumes and i get the gnome desktop back
21:07<coalchar>whoops
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21:08<johnjay>i checked all 3 options in the Settings to have it never lock the screen
21:08<johnjay>is there something else I can do or check?
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21:14<alan>join ##wayland
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21:17<twb>johnjay: do you have to run Oracle virtualizaion?
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21:19<johnjay>well... define "have"
21:19<johnjay>if i want to run debian with windows i guess so
21:19<johnjay>I can't do WSL2 since I got rid of Hyper-V I think.
21:20<coalchar>twb: I can boot in fine with nomodeset
21:20<coalchar>to 5.14
21:20<coalchar>so its a graphical issue
21:22<twb>coalchar: OK.
21:22<twb>coalchar: sorry I completely forgot to test that
21:22<twb>I meant to say it, then forgot again
21:22<twb>johnjay: if you're in Windows, then WSL1 is much nicer than vbox IMO. Depends what your needs are, of course.
21:23<johnjay>compile things in linux pretty m uch
21:23<johnjay>can i run WSL1 debian instance without hyper-v so virtualbox also runs?
21:23<johnjay>i'm not sure how that works
21:26<sarnold>I thought wsl1 was the kernel subsystem implementation and wsl2 was the vt-d and vt-i etc virtualization approach
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21:28<coalchar>twb: so at least now we know the problem is specifically graphical
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21:28<twb>coalchar: I wonder if the issue is rleated to EDID/DDC
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21:28<twb>coalchar: I would try to cpature and diff dmesg between the working and broken kernels
21:28<twb>coalchar: e.g. journalctl -k
21:29<twb>coalchar: also, compare /boot/config-*
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21:41<johnjay>sarnold: my understanding is WSL1 is userspace only, but WSL2 as you say uses a full kernel with virtualization
21:41<johnjay>so maybe i can get away with wsl1
21:42<twb>WSL1 is a kernel personality
21:42<twb>It's the windows equivalent of /usr/bin/linux32 putting the kernel into IA32 mode
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21:42<twb>There's no emulation or virtualization at all.
21:43<twb>ntoskrnl is simply providing syscalls that conform to the de facto linux syscall API
21:43<raven523>is it ntoskrnl or some other executive-mode service?
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21:47<twb>raven523: it's ntoskrnl
21:47<twb>raven523: the functionality was added to support non-OS/2 personalities back in the 1990s
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21:51<coalchar>twb: nothing helpful there :(
21:51<coalchar>in comparing journalctl
21:52<twb>coalchar: sorry, I am out of ideas
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21:53<coalchar>me too
21:53<twb>johnjay: on Windows I recommend you install Debian & Terminal from the store app. If you need GTK3 apps (not just terminal), I recommend broadway
21:53<twb>johnjay: if you need more than tty and gtk, you might need to use wsl2
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21:55<johnjay>ah ok
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21:58<tuxd3v>sney, yeah, they are now trying to build the first 3 prototypes. they are pushing for full open source hardware certification, and also for comercial certifications..
21:58<tuxd3v>the laptop seems nice, but yeah, I would love to see it already done :)
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22:35<coalchar>twb: at this point im just recompiling the kernel every 30 minutes with some minor change to see if it does anything
22:36<twb>coalchar: if you can be arse, git bisect
22:36<coalchar>this time instead of using a 5.10 config of my own that i used make olddefconfig on, i'm going ahead and using the 5.14 config debian devs are using in preliminary stages of testing
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22:39<coalchar>i mean gitbisect isn't a bad idea
22:40<coalchar>never done it before is the only challenge
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23:02<coalchar>twb: I'm going to try and setup a debug environment. any ideas on the best way to do this?
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23:03<twb>coalchar: sorry I can't spend any more time on your problem
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23:04<coalchar>twb: thanks for your help and time ^^
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