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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-19

---Logopened Sun Sep 19 00:00:44 2021
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00:33<Urk>Still no audio, but uninstalling, reinstalling, and rebooting brought back the pulseaudio controller.
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00:34<Urk>NOt really sure why I am having so many problems. Can't recall a time ever where I was plagued with so many issues.
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00:39<somiaj>you need to try to pay attention to which network you are on and not cross post
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01:13<Urk>Anyone have an idea how to fix the failures
01:15<raven523>irt's saying that pulseaudio is already running
01:15<Urk>raven523: I have no sound.
01:15<raven523>those top two failures just mean that it can't use realtime scheduling. This won't break pulseaudio, but it might make audio slow in some cases
01:15<raven523>yes, I know
01:15<Urk>Not sure which profile to use. I have tried them all, and nothing works.
01:16<raven523>do you get anything from "pgrep -af pulseaudio" ?
01:17<Urk>raven523: I get 5004 man pulseaudio 5112 pulseaudio --start
01:17<raven523>so it is running. If you have pavucontrol, start that and check that your playback streams are unmuted
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01:18<raven523>and that they have the right output device (the button with text on the right end of the output)
01:18<raven523>I don't remember what the equivalent pactl and pacmd commands are
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01:19<Urk>raven523: I have been trying to do that for hours, and with no luck. One thing I find bizarre is that the test speaker option is missing from pulse audo controller.
01:19<Urk>It literally disappeared.
01:19<raven523>I don't think I have that option either and my sound is working with pulseaudio
01:19<Urk>raven523: I did have it earlier in the year.
01:20<Urk>raven523: What type of hardware are you running? I'm running a Dell XPS 15 7590.
01:20<raven523>some 2019 gigabyte motherboard with an AMD chipset
01:20<Urk>I am using the weather channel to test the audio
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01:25<Urk>The parsing errors went away so there is some improvement, but still no sound
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01:27<raven523>it set the default output to alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1f.3.hdmi-surround71-extra2
01:28<Urk>Currently have the configuration set to Digital Stereo (HDMI 5) Output + Aalog Stereo Input but not sure this is correct.
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01:28<tjcarter>raven523: have you looked at your alsa settings? (not the pulse fake alsa device, but the real one)
01:28<Urk>tjcarter: How do you mean?
01:29<Urk>tjcarter: I ran various commands I found in the man page for pulseaudio, but still no sound.
01:30<tjcarter>raven523: sometimes I've found that somehow the alsa device gets muted and pulse doesn't realize it
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01:32<enigma9o7>So like, pavu control does weird things and cant control my desktop PCs iternal speaker. However I fiured ig out with alsamixer. There is an input called "master mono" that is muted but once i unmute it and turn it up, tada! sound.
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01:33<enigma9o7>did i do that
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01:33<Urk>tjcarter: I have had that problem too, but not on this computer. This is the first time pulseaudio is giving me trouble.
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01:34<Urk>Pulseaudio is showing movement on the bar that displays sound, but nothing comes out. Wonder if something else is going on?
01:36<raven523>did you check the sound levels on that output?
01:36<raven523>and whether the playback streams are using that output?
01:37<Urk>raven523: Sound levels are high.
01:37<Urk>raven523: Since the bar is makig movement on the stream it looks like they are using the output, but there is no sound.
01:39<Urk>On other computers resetting the configuration file usually fixed the problem, but not sure that is the issue here, or at least I haven't figured it out yet.
01:40<raven523>are there any audio devices in lspci ?
01:40<raven523>I'm not sure if you might need the firmware-linux package
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01:44<Urk>raven523: I do not see any audio devices
01:44<Urk>ARe they normally displayed when running lspci?
01:45<somiaj>only if they are pci devices
01:45<somiaj>again I told you what to do in the other channel (As I said you need to try to keep your issues to a single network)
01:45<somiaj>cat /proc/asound/cards
01:45<raven523>00:1f.3 Audio device: Intel Corporation Cannon Lake PCH cAVS (rev 10)
01:46<Urk>somiaj: Ran that command quite some time ago, and two intel devices came up.
01:46<Urk>raven523: Thanks for catching that.
01:47<tjcarter>that doesn't look like /proc/asound/cards to me (and please use a pastebin for that, it's more than two lines on most systems)
01:48<somiaj>then you should have already known what two cards your system is detecting.
01:50<somiaj>do you have a hardware mute, check alsamixer (this has been suggested), is your card muted?
01:51<Urk>somiaj: Yes, I know the cards are being detected, so now what?
01:51<somiaj>then the issue is not the detection of your sound cards
01:51<Urk>No, hardware is not muted.
01:51<Urk>Its currently set at 150% (OdB)
01:54<Urk>So what is the issue?
01:58<Urk>I am going to hit the sack. Its pretty late, but maybe the fog overnight will restore my audio.
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02:04<Tj>Urk: It's often a good idea in these cases to create a new user account and log-in to that and test, in case there is some user-config in your usual profile causing this
02:05<Urk>Tj: Hmm.. Just created pd after pdf got toasted, and now I have to create another one? Ughhh....
02:05<somiaj>well you keep doing something to mess these up, so stop breaking it
02:05<Urk>I really haven't done anything that should have caused this problem to happen. Thats why I am wondering if it is a configuration issue, and which configuration setting I should use?
02:06<Tj>Urk: no, don't have to, I'm just pointing it out that a clean untouched profile is a good way to test if the regular profile config is causing an issue
02:06<Urk>somiaj: Its the curse, and not me!
02:06<Tj>Urk: I've only just come in but had a quick glance at the backlog.
02:06<Urk>I will create another profile.
02:06<Tj>Urk: are you expecting output from the HDMI TV/monitor?
02:07<Urk>Tj: I don't have a TV monitor. Just a Dell XPS 15 7590.
02:07<Tj>Urk: so there is your first problem then, since I read up that you sais the profile was set to HDMI out
02:08<Tj>"Currently have the configuration set to Digital Stereo (HDMI 5) Output ..."
02:08<Urk>Tj: I just changed it to Analog Stereo Input
02:08<Tj>Urk: so it might just be the wrong default output and/or profile is set for PulseAudio. This can happen where the HDMI audio device is discovered before the regular audio controller
02:08<Urk>Is that the right one?
02:09<Tj>Urk: "Analogue Stereo **Output** + ... whatever input"
02:09<Tj>Urk: can you show us "pactl list | nc 9999"
02:10<Urk>Analog Stereo Duplex?
02:10<Tj>Urk: sounds better yes
02:11<Urk>Oophs. Wrong paste. Sorry about that.
02:12<Tj>FYI you can test using "speaker-test -Ddefault -c 2 -t wav -l 2"
02:12<Urk>Duplex setting is not showing up on the movement bar so it looks like it is the wrong one.
02:13<Tj>where -DXXXXXX is one of the output devices reported by "aplay -L"
02:13<Tj>So, from your paste, near the end "Active Profile: output:analog-stereo+input:analog-stereo"
02:13<Urk>Tj: Is this command correct? I get an error command not found.
02:14<Tj>device in use "alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1f.3.analog-stereo"
02:14<somiaj>though if pulse is running and has the devices, things like speaker-test may fail
02:15<Tj>Urk: speaker-test is in the package alsa-utils
02:15<Tj>Urk: according to pactl that device is muted!
02:15<Urk>Tj: How do I unmute it?
02:15<Tj>"Mute: yes"
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02:16<somiaj>it was only mentioned hours ago to check if it was muted...:/
02:16<somiaj>try alsamixer
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02:17<Tj>In pavucontrol (the PA GUI mixer), on the "Output Devices" tab, there's a list of outputs. To the right top of each are badly designed buttons the leftmost of which is a small triangle on its side with an 'x' next to it --- if you actually see that button that output is muted
02:17<Urk>somiaj: AlsaMixer came up on my screen, but not sure what to do with it.
02:18<Tj>I hate that button since it isn't even shown if the output isn't muted and you have to hover the mouse in that general area to discover it!
02:18<Urk>I selected playback, and nothing happened.
02:18<Tj>Urk: "pavucontrol"
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02:18<somiaj>you hit 'm' to mute/unmoute a channel, an icon near the bottom of each bar shows it is muted, just umute all channels
02:19<Tj>somiaj: there's sometimes a single control to mute everthing too, and often off the right side of the stack!
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02:20<Urk>Tj: Currently set to Analog Stereo Output. And the output is grayed out, and not responsive.
02:21<Urk>How do I unmute this?
02:21<Tj>Urk: "pactl set-sink-mute 4 off"
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03:02<Urk>Tj: I get an error "no such entity".
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03:03<Urk>I'm looking it up in the man page now.
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03:03<Tj>Urk: for the pactl command? "4" is the index of the Sink shown in "pactl list"
03:04<Tj>Urk: your pastebin showed the device as Sink #4
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03:06<Urk>I don't think I have the syntax right.
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03:10<Urk>Tj: This is the results of pactl --help
03:13<Tj>Urk: I wonder if you need to prefix the number with the # character?
03:13<Tj>I tested here and only needed the number
03:13<Urk>Tj: Give me an example of your syntax
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03:14<Urk>I find the pactl instructions very confusing
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03:16<Urk>Tj: Still get an error message
03:17<Urk>This lines seems to be controlling in this case:
03:17<Urk>Oophs. Ignore that.
03:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 995] by debhelper
03:18<Urk>Tj: This line seems to be controlling in this case: pactl [options] set-(sink|source)-mute NAME|#N 1|0|toggle
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03:19<wolfram>remove the #, and try 'toggle' like this pactl set-sink-mute 4 toggle
03:20<Urk>wolfram: I get an error message "Failed to get sink information: No such entity".
03:21<wolfram>I get the same, when I use a sink index, that does not exist.
03:22<Tj>the command takes a boolean (1/0 on/off) which is better than trying to toggle it
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03:22<wolfram>Try 0 for the first? Sorry I am no expert and missed everything you posted before.
03:22<Urk>This is what I get now after trying to more closely emulate what the help screen displays
03:23<wolfram> pactl list short sinks
03:24<wolfram>Which sink index numbers do you get?
03:24<Urk>Pulse Audio Channel might be able to shed some light, but it is too late, and I need some sleep. This could all take awhile.
03:24<Tj>Urk: what debian release are you using?
03:24<Tj>Urk: the commands I've given you all work for me here on Bullseye
03:24<Urk>Tj: 10.9
03:25<Urk>Tj: Please give me the syntax once again of the command you recommend I enter.
03:25<Tj>Urk: what does "apt list pulseaudio" report the version as, so I can compare here
03:25<Tj>Urk: on my system the Sink is #1, so I can do "pactl set-sink-mute 1 on" and "pactl set-sink-mute 1 off"
03:26<wolfram>Here it is index 0
03:27<Tj>Urk: OK, 12.2.4 so older than both versions I have here, so syntax may have improved since your version
03:27<Urk>The last line didn't come out puseaudio/oldstable, now 12.2-4+deb10u1 amd64 (installed)
03:28<Tj>Urk: but from my "pactl --help" I get the same as you "pactl [options] set-(sink|source)-mute NAME|#N 1|0|toggle"
03:28<Tj>Urk: I'm basing using '4' on your
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03:30<Urk>Tj: It errors out and says "No such entity".
03:30<Urk>So then the question is why does it state that?
03:30<wolfram> pactl list short sinks
03:30<Tj>Urk: do as wolfram says ^^
03:31<Tj>the number on the left is the sink number
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03:31<Urk>Tj: This is what I get
03:32<Urk>It says no such entity
03:32<Urk>I tried it with the # in front of the 4, and then get an error message that says You have to specify a sink name/index and a mute action (0, 1, or 'toggle')
03:32<Tj>Urk: "pactl set-sink-mute 4 0"
03:33<Urk>Tj: Still get error that says No such entity
03:33<Tj>Urk: so what does wolfram's command report? "pactl list short sinks"
03:34<Urk>What I don't uderstand is why this is still a problem after uninstalling, and reinstalling? I even tried the purge option to make sure the configuration files were gone, and still end up muted.
03:34<Tj>Urk: because it has been saved in your user profile, in my experience. That never gets touched on purging packages, only configs in /etc/
03:35<Tj>also mute may have been saved by alsa not PA, there's a system service that has alsa save/restore state
03:35<Urk>Tj: Wolfram's command produces the following error "command not found".
03:36<Urk>Tj: Where would I go to fix the user profile?
03:36<Tj>Urk: then you typed something wrong
03:36<Tj>Urk: don't type the " marks I surround the command with
03:37<Tj>Urk: otherwise, the entire string between the "..." will be treated as a single command name :D
03:37<Urk>There were no quotes in any of the commands I ran.
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03:37<Tj>oh hang on typo!
03:37<Tj>patcl is not pactl :D
03:38<Tj>think PA Control - that is what pactl means
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03:38<Urk>I had a typo, but now have feedback
03:39<Urk>What is that number 12 at the beginning of the line?
03:39<Tj>not sure how but it has changed since the earlier paste you gave"
03:39<Tj>Urk: so "pactl set-sink-mute 12 0"
03:40<Urk>I'm not sure how either. I did change the configuration settings a few times
03:40<Urk>Tj: This time there were no errors which suggest it worked.
03:40<Tj>In your paste 12 is "Source Output #12"
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03:41<Tj>ahh, if you changed things that could have caused the indexes to change
03:41<Urk>I typed pactl set-sink-mute 12 0 and it came returned with nothing. That is probably a good sign.
03:41<Tj>Urk: yes
03:42<Urk>It works. Hoorah. And I learned a bit about pactl controls. The help screen could be better.
03:42<Urk>I am going to sleep. Thanks for all of your helpe.
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03:43<Tj>Urk: YAY!
03:43<Tj>Urk: before you go...!
03:43<Urk>Cause for celebration.
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03:44<catimike>No idea what debian is
03:44<Tj>there is a possibility this is caused by a system service "alsa-restore" which on shutdown saves the state and on boot restores it. so if mute was set when the system shutdown once, on reboot that mute would be applied. Hopefully mute is not enabled next time you shutdown and that won't happen
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04:45<dreamer>is there a way to skip certain architectures for specific repositories in apt?
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04:46<tjcarter>deb [arch=…] https://…
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04:58<dreamer>derp, of course. thnx tjcarter :)
04:59<dreamer>can that be a comma separate list if one desires?
05:00<dreamer>top, less warnings when updating repos now ;)
05:05<tjcarter>My solution is to avoid using outside repos where possible. I do have a few foreign packages, but I'm down to really just two—voxin and VDH's coapp. Neither have a repository.
05:06<dreamer>well, there are plenty of things not in debian
05:06<dreamer>or extremely outdated
05:06<dreamer>I have a small selection of external repos that I add because I can't build all the things by hand
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05:09<tjcarter>but I've found that too few people outside of Debian know how to maintain a repo that doesn't break Debian. My go-to example has the name of a guy who appears in a LOT of Debian changelog entries and really ought to know better… deb-multimedia WILL break your machine.
05:09<tjcarter>So I tend to get apps from things other than deb repos
05:09<tjcarter>flatpak has a lot of things
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05:11<tjcarter>There's still stuff I wish was packaged. I might have to be the one to package it I guess.
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07:29<EmleyMoor>OK, trying my secureboot testing vm - using the command line pasted here - - but when I dmesg | grep secure I see "secureboot: Secure boot could not be determined (mode 0)"
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07:35<Pablito>Hi : I have Debian 10 installed a CubieTruck (Allwinner). The OS appears to be booting fine as I can ping once complete, but I get no login prompt at the console (blank screen).
07:36<Pablito>I suspect this happened when I last upgraded, but I simply didn't notice as I did so from SSH terminal.
07:36<Pablito>After messing with the /etc/network/interfaces file yesterday, SSH doesn't appear to be running.
07:37<Pablito>Console is a necessity now. Any suggestions where to get started?
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07:39<Pablito>Oh, on boot, the standard bits start scrolling past, but eventually the monitor goes dark... possibly when loading or initialising video driver or some such.
07:40<Pablito>I even see a short countdown or 2 seconds to press any key to stop boot sequence, but key presses have no effect.
07:40<Pablito>Once boot is complete Ctrl+Alt+Del actually does reboot through. Seems to be the only thing I can do with the keyboard.
07:41<Pablito>I can access the physical disk by mounting on another Linux machine.
07:43<Pablito>Also, I did a nmap scan and only port 111 (rpcbind) is open.
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07:44<tls_debug>Hello there, I have an issue with libgnutls30, can someone help me ?
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07:46<bremner>that probably depends on what the actual issue is.
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07:47<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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07:49<tls_debug>the problem is the following : at work, certs are signed by a child CA which depends on the mother CA, Comodo here. Comodo CA cert uses sha1. Starting with bullseye, every binaries depending on libgnutls30 can not validate the certificate because upstream gnutls declared sha1 as insecure.
07:49<tls_debug>ldapsearch fails, same with php-ldap. ldapsearch with -d -1 argument says the chain can not be validated
07:50<tls_debug>the same configuration runs without issues on buster
07:51<bremner>did you read /usr/share/doc/libgnutls30/NEWS.Debian.gz ? there are some pointers there
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07:51<tls_debug>it seems Debian applies a patch called veri
07:51<bremner>although that discussion seems to be about a much earlier hash deprecation
07:51<tls_debug>yeah, I saw it
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07:52<tls_debug>but it doesn't solve the issue
07:52<tls_debug>the patch is verify-treat-SHA-1-signed-CA-...
07:53<tls_debug>gnutls-cli explicitly says for Comodo : (broken)
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07:55<jkc>You need to adjust the cipher string used within your application to include %VERIFY_ALLOW_SIGN_WITH_SHA1.
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07:56<tls_debug>yep, that was what I tried by creating /etc/gnutls/config
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08:00<jkc>The SHA1-specific token doesn't seem to appear in gnutls' list of supported priority strings in Debian.
08:01<tls_debug>should I define it inside [overrides] block or [priorities] ?
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08:01<jkc>Pastebin your current config file.
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08:05<tls_debug>thanks for your kind help
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08:08<tls_debug>with that option and if I understand correctly, it should not be an issue anymore
08:08<jkc>default-priority-string = NORMAL:%VERIFY_ALLOW_BROKEN
08:08<jkc>Add that under [overrides]
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08:09<tls_debug>still failing
08:10<tls_debug>same message as before with ldapsearch -d -1 : TLS: peer cert untrusted or revoked (0x42)
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08:11<tls_debug>on an other client with ldapsearch linked with libssl from OpenSSL, the connection succeed
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08:12<jkc>Then you're going to have to determine how to change the gnutls priority string for the application itself, as it doesn't seem to honor the system-wide configuration.
08:13<jkc>And I do very much hope that you're working on fixing the core issue, namely the involvement of a deprecated algorithm in your PKI chain.
08:14<tls_debug>That's the Comodo problem actually
08:14<tls_debug>their CA certificate is very old and still valid until 2038
08:15<tls_debug>the child CA is used in Europe for almost all research institutes
08:16<jkc>That's not actually Comodo's problem, because they've been using a SHA2 signing cert for the root and intermediates since 2010.
08:17<jkc>It sounds to me like someone is grossly mis-managing your PKI.
08:17<tls_debug>the child CA is signed by CN=AAA Certificate Services,O=Comodo CA Limited,L=Salford,ST=Greater Manchester,C=GB
08:17<tls_debug>you can verify on your side
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08:20<jkc>Yeah, that's been deprecated for over a year.
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08:21<jkc>Sorry, wrong link.
08:22<tls_debug>you are totally right !
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08:22<jkc>So whoever is managing your PKI has work to do to migrate off of a deprecated root authority.
08:22<jkc>In the mean time...
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08:24<tls_debug>it sounds like many certs will probably need to be revoked and issued once again
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08:28<Tj>oh the irony of the gnutls web-site using the wrong server cert!
08:30<jkc>Curious as to how you got to that subdomain.
08:30<sussudio>www was closed up for sunday.
08:31<Tj>tls_debug: did you add TLS_CIPHER_SUITE overrides in ldap.conf on the client(s) ?
08:31<Tj>jkc: first result of a search
08:32<jkc>Tj: And that search would be?
08:32<jkc>www2 doesn't appear *anywhere* in those results.
08:33<tls_debug>Tj: I have around 3500 clients (with different distributions), I would prefer to avoid it. And it doesn't solve the issue I have with php-ldap installed on the same server as LDAP directory
08:34<Tj>tls_debug: indeed :)
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08:34<Tj>jkc: first result for me
08:35<tls_debug>actually, I don't even know if libgnutls reads /etc/gnutls/config by default, that's what I think
08:35<jkc>It does, but only if the application calls a specific gnutls api function.
08:35<tls_debug>yep, exactly
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08:36<Tj>tls_debug: no, the tool calling libgnutls has to set them, and for ldapsearch (openldap) that's /etc/ldap.conf
08:37<tls_debug>Tj: thanks for your confirmation
08:38<jkc>Tj: And, uh, no. www2 appears NOWHERE. If I FORCE it to only return results from, that page isn't even in the search results at all.
08:38<Tj>tls_debug: been integrating ldap+TLS+kerberos+sasl+gssapi the last couple of weeks so quite familiar with this at present
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08:38<Tj>jkc: "for you"
08:38<tls_debug>Tj: oh I see. I can bet it was kinda difficult ;)
08:39<Tj>tls_debug: it's been 'fun' !!! many headaches
08:39<Tj>also having krb5 use ldap as its backend db
08:39<Pablito>Is the boot sequence logged to a file?
08:40<Tj>Pablito: which part? "journactl -b" or for kernel-only "journalctl -k"
08:40<Tj>oops, missing 'l' in that first command!
08:41<Tj>tls_debug: I hadn't realised bullseye linked against libgnutls until you came along, so that is important knowledge
08:41<tls_debug>Tj: I think Debian always linked against libgnutls
08:42<tls_debug>except for a few packages like *-openssl
08:42<Pablito>Tj : Kind of a noob in this area. Either, both? :)
08:42<Tj>tls_debug: possibly; my eyes focused on the openssl info in "man ldap.conf" TLS_CIPHER_SUITE when I read it 2 weeks ago
08:43<Tj>Pablito: "-k" reports only the kernel messages; without it you get kernel, systemd init, and other services
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08:44<Tj>Pablito: "-b" means 'this boot' whereas "-b -1" would mean last boot and "-b -2" would mean 2 boots ago. You can also do "journalctl --list-boots" to get the correct index number
08:44<Pablito>Tj : I don't have access to the console. I am having to walk through the file system while mounted on another box.
08:44<Tj>Pablito: does the other system also have systemd and journalctl?
08:45<Pablito>Tj : It would appear not. It is an old LinuxMint machine (17.3)
08:45<Tj>Pablito: if so, what is the path of the mount-point where you've got the broken root file-system mounted?
08:46<jkc>tls_debug: It's more a matter of what the package itself was written against.
08:46<Tj>Pablito: no idea what Mint has; but I'd be surprised if it doesn't have journalctl
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08:47<Pablito>Tj : Checking again...
08:48<tls_debug>jkc: ok I see. I was thinking about rsyslog for example as it can be built with both gnutls and openssl.
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08:48<tls_debug>jkc: libgnutls is the default, same for slapd
08:48<Tj>Pablito: if it does, AND the target root-fs also used systemd-journald, you can do "journalctl --root=/path/to/mountpoint --list-boots" and so on (use --root= to tell journalctl where to start looking)
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08:50<Tj>Pablito: permanent journals will be stored under /var/log/journal/ which is where journalctl will then look, based on --root=
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08:52<tls_debug>jkc: thanks for your time, once again
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08:59<Pablito>Tj : I'm not having much luck. I can't even locate /var/log/journal.
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09:45<bentham>How can I specify that I only want a particular repository to install only specific packages that I specify?
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09:45<bentham>i.e. I want to add a repository to sources.list, but I don't want apt-get upgrade to install 'surprising' packages, particularly ones that overlap with packages from other, e.g. Debian official, repositories.
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09:47<Tj>bentham: pinning via apt_preferences see
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09:48<dvs>Sounds like the start of a frankendebian...
09:50<bentham>dvs: Actually, the end of one.
09:50<bentham>dvs: I've got dmo, trying to rid myself of it as much as possible.
09:50<dvs>oh, been there.
09:50<dvs>it messed up my upgrade to debian 11
09:51<bentham>It didn't hurt me on my upgrade to bullseye. I use it pretty minimally, but it installed many packages that are available in Debian. I'm not sure I'm ready to completely cut this repository out, but I'm getting close.
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09:53<bentham>and, I note that its 'origin' is poorly labelled as 'Unofficial'.
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10:00<bentham>(actually I'm wrong; it is, which is fine.)
10:01<FLD>dvs: my apt crashed during full-upgrade and ended up hardlocking the entire system in the middle of the upgrade :)
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10:01<FLD>a big *gulp* moment
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10:01<FLD>luckily the system booted back up and i was able to manually resolve the dependency hell and finish the upgrade
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10:02<dvs>I never had that happen before!
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10:05<FLD>yeah, haven't had such bad luck with apt in over a decade either. but that's what you get with a desktop system with close to 5000 packages installed
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10:07<Claudiu_E>Hello guys, can i ask you something about nvidia and hardware acceleration with chormium based browser?
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10:07<Claudiu_E>Is there a way to support vp9 decoding with nvidia?
10:08<dvs>5000 packages?!? Wow!
10:08<Claudiu_E>Like using the gpu when playing youtube videos.
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10:46<bentham>Hmm, can I have multiple packages on one 'Package:' line
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10:48<bentham>In particular, I want to allow upgrading packages from for a limited set of specific packages, such as acroread.
10:49<bentham>which is to say, I have assigned Pin-Priority: 1, which is great,
10:49<bentham>but now I worry that I will not be able to take upgrades for the packages from that remain.
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10:50<bentham>Under the section 'Prevent/selective installation from third-party a repository' on the page from above,
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10:51<bentham>It provides a way to 'Allow upgrading only my-specific-software from my-custom-repo' by setting Pin-Priority for specific packages to 500. However, when I check them with apt policy, they seem to still have shown as 1.
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11:14<bentham>Seems like it is space-delimited. Good.
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11:18<Claudiu_E>What's in the multimedia repo and can't be found in official one?
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11:20<bentham>Rarely, organisations send me files that require acroread for viewing.
11:21<Claudiu_E>Oh, ok.
11:21<bentham>I wish acroread would go away entirely, frankly.
11:21<bentham>But some people still insist upon it.
11:22<Claudiu_E>Aren't they the founders of pdf format?
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11:22<Claudiu_E>So they won't go away to soon. :D
11:23<Claudiu_E>I have some issues too, but regarding stupid nvidia ... :(
11:23<another>I think Adobe has enough Photoshop money to stay alive for a while
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11:23<bentham>I'm down to 27 packages from that are not relevant to acroread. Once I've got them all out, and my list of specific packages to upgrade from in /etc/apt/preferences matches precisely the ones I have installed from, I'll be satisfied.
11:24<bentham>Claudiu_E: I believe it.
11:24<bentham>Claudiu_E: and yes, sorry about nvidia. I've managed to purge that from this system separately, thank goodness.
11:24<bentham>(well, the non-debian nvidia, anyway.)
11:25<Claudiu_E>So, you ditched nvidia for something else, or how?
11:26<bentham>I don't remember. It was a long time ago. I think I might have somehow depended upon it for some options to enable a multi-head setup, or similar.
11:27<bentham>I still have nvidia packages, but not from dmo
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11:29<Claudiu_E>So, do you have any idea how to make hardware acceleration work for vp9 decoding over youtube?
11:29<bentham>It might also be that I upgraded the motherboard and no longer have the ancient nvidia chipset.
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11:29<bentham>Claudiu_E: no clue about that, sorry. :(
11:30<Claudiu_E>Ooo, so you dont have nvidia anymore.
11:30<Claudiu_E>Well, i wanna ditch nvidia too.
11:30<Claudiu_E>For an amd card.
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11:30<Claudiu_E>But i currently have an 1080 , so its not cheap to do that.
11:31<Claudiu_E>I have a laptop with a vega8 card.
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11:31<Claudiu_E>Its not a good one, but it works.
11:32<Claudiu_E>But my desktop has nvidia, so this issue with hardware acceleration its keeping me from switching to linux forever ...
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11:33<Claudiu_E>At some point it worked on Arch, but somehow chromium updated and bricked vdpau or those translation layers ...
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11:35<bentham>Hm, Chromium is also something that I deliberately avoid.
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11:35<Claudiu_E>So, you use firefox?
11:36<bentham>Yes. And derivatives, specifically Tor Browser.
11:36<bentham>I understand some video tools require Chromium, which makes me sad.
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11:37<Claudiu_E>Hm, i use vivaldi, offcorse, chormium based, i kinda like it.
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11:37<Claudiu_E>But on firefox i have no clue what to do to enable hw acceleration.
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11:37<bentham>Why do you need hardware acceleration?
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11:39<Claudiu_E>I watch youtube sometimes, and decoding with the cpu its kinda heavy.
11:39<Claudiu_E>and i have a 2k monitor.
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11:39<Claudiu_E>And kinda wanna watch in 2k. :P
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11:41<bentham>Claudiu_E: I see. Well, I have a 4k monitor, but I never watch anything fullscreen.
11:41<bentham>Maybe things will improve over time.
11:42<Claudiu_E>You dont need to be fullscreen to have issue.
11:42<Claudiu_E>For me even in window mode it gets haevy on cpu.
11:42<bentham>Hm. Maybe I don't have the problem, then, or maybe I have it but don't care?
11:43<Claudiu_E>If u dont have nvidia card, maybe you decode with gpu already.
11:43<Claudiu_E>As i said, on amd its easy to make it work.
11:44<bentham>I have an intel chipset, not amd
11:45<Claudiu_E>Well, that works too.
11:45<Claudiu_E>Out of the box. :))
11:45<Claudiu_E>I think even better then amd.
11:45<bentham>I have some AMD-based machines and am happy with those. But this one isn't.
11:46<Claudiu_E>You know, i have an i7-7700k cpu, it has an intel gpu onboard.
11:46<Claudiu_E>But i have no clue how to deal with dual gpu.
11:46<Claudiu_E>On desktop pc.
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11:47<bentham>It does sound like you are much more of a video expert than I.
11:47<bentham>I'm just glad to be rid of nvidia packages that aren't in Debian.
11:47<Claudiu_E>I'm not. :))
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11:48<Claudiu_E>Thats why i'm asking about this problem.
11:49<bentham>I find that often experts are the ones with the thorniest problems.
11:49<bentham>But I take your point.
11:49<Claudiu_E>Well, not in my case. :D
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11:52<Tj>Claudiu_E: have you enabled/forced acceleration support in Firefox?
11:53<Claudiu_E>I currently dont have firefox.
11:53<Claudiu_E>But if u tell me where that option is, i can install now and give it a try.
11:54<Tj>my mistake, thought you mentioned FF being the problem "layers.acceleration.force-enabled" in about:config
11:54<Claudiu_E>I'll try.
11:54<Tj>Claudiu_E: also ensure "layers.acceleration.disabled" is 'false'
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11:57<Claudiu_E>Nope, same issue with that optin, at 8k i have a 80% cpu load.
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12:05<Tj>that'll depend on the codec I presume
12:06<Claudiu_E>Maybe, but i think its something about nvidia and translation layers.
12:06<Claudiu_E>You know, you need vdpau and vapi to work vor decoding.
12:06<Claudiu_E>And somehow, vapi dont work.
12:06<Tj>Claudiu_E: have you seen this article?
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12:08<Claudiu_E>Yes, i know that article.
12:08<Tj>Claudiu_E: that page, eventually, says "([[edit]] this patch no longer supports VP9, even if your graphics support it, so you must use the h264ify extension in all cases - see below)"
12:09<Claudiu_E>Arch wiky has a very good how to stuff.
12:09<Claudiu_E>I know.
12:09<Tj>Looks like its due to Nvidia drivers, and the chromium engine
12:09<Claudiu_E>But i hoped that there is a a work around.
12:10<Claudiu_E>Exactly, nvidia sucks!
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12:12<Claudiu_E>So, at the end of the day, if you own a nvidia, you cant have hw acceleration. :))
12:13<v_>anyone have installed openjdk 8 and 16 on bullseye stable? Im cannot find solution for installing it without adding adoptopenjdk repository
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12:17<Claudiu_E>And btw, if you use h264ify plugin you get stuck with 1080p content.
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12:49<tuxd3v>hello guys,
12:49<tuxd3v>I have a doubt about journalctl, and rsyslog
12:49<tuxd3v>were does journalctl puts the logs? and why not only rsyslog?
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13:00<Claudiu_E>maybe in /var/log/journal ?
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13:33<r4fkramer>Please, my lower matte panel was accidentally deleted and I can't reactivate it anymore. I upgraded from debian 'stretch' to 'buster', but the panel has not come back. What can be done to bring this bottom panel back?
13:33<r4fkramer>correcting: mate DE
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13:54<tjcarter>r4fkramer: might have to recreate it?
13:54<Urk>What is kvm called in the repository?
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13:56<Urk>I noticed an entry for QEMU-KVM. Did KVM merge with QEMU? Its been years since I looked at either.
13:56<another>kvm is a kernel feature.
13:56<Urk>another: Would QEMU-KVM be a decent option for testing another version of Linux in emulation mode?
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13:57<another>,v qemu-kvm
13:57<judd>Package: qemu-kvm on amd64 -- stretch: 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u9; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u9; stretch-security: 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u9; buster: 1:3.1+dfsg-8+deb10u8; buster-security: 1:3.1+dfsg-8+deb10u8
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13:58<jmcnaught>Urk: virt-manager is a popular GUI front-end to libvirt/qemu-kvm
13:58<tjcarter>the trend continues of asking three separate channels (at least) basically the same question and expecting everyone else to do the thinking for him. After a few weeks of this … nah.
13:58<Urk>jmcnaught: So what are all the files I need to run Kernel 5.10 in emulation mode?
13:59<another>define "emulation mode"
13:59<jmcnaught>Urk: are you cross-posting again? You really need to stop doing that. You use normal Debian installation ISO.
13:59<another>why would you care about KVM if you want to emulate?
13:59<Urk>jmcnaught: No I am not. This is the only channel I have posted in this morning.
14:00<tjcarter>jmcnaught: to two #debian's and a #debian-offtopic
14:00<jmcnaught>Urk: learn the difference between OFTC and Libera, you were asking on Libera half an hour ago, this is OFTC.
14:00<Urk>I take that back. I posted in Debian-offtopic, but no one responded to my post.
14:00<tjcarter>jmcnaught: he didn't get a full and complete one on one tutorial there, so …
14:00<Urk>No one responded which is why I posted here.
14:01*tjcarter cranky, wanders off to make lunch
14:01<another>... *looking at libera* ... sure......
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14:03<jmcnaught>Urk: for what it is worth, Debian 11 with Linux 5.10 should work just fine on your computer if Debian 10/Linux 4.19 does. You just seem to have the magic touch when it comes to breaking stuff.
14:03<jmcnaught>Urk: another option besides virtualization to test Debian 11 is to test with a Live image
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15:03<Urk>jmcnaught: Would Docker be a better option? Or similar to qem-kvm for what I am trying to do? Just read online its 50% faster than kvm.
15:04<sney>docker is for running an application in a container, not virtualizing a whole OS
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15:06<sney>when you read stuff like that, you should try googling e.g. "what is docker for" before asking a basic question, it is very easy to find out these things yourself
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15:09<jkc>Urk: Another lesson is that no one likes a liar. You had finished a ten minute conversation on the topic in libera's #debian 30 minutes before coming here and saying that no one responded to you.
15:11<Urk>jkc: With respect to today (after 12 midnight Pacific standard time), I only show that I posted in Debian-offtopic. So not sure what you are referring to. I just looked at my chat screen so not really sure where you are going with this conversation. If I had a response, I wouldn't have posted here.
15:12<sney>Urk: ah, this is someone else, with the same name and the same laptop? what an amazing coincidence.
15:13<jkc>And connecting from the same IP.
15:14<Urk>sney: I stand corrected. I see a post in response to Kephra, but find no response to my question so I don't see why it would be inappropriate to ask the question here. It wasn't answered. I do have my answer now, and have installed qemu-kvm.
15:14<sussudio>Urk using Quebec, CA - Urk using Newark, NJ, USA
15:14<jkc>Urk: The first rule of holes is stop digging.
15:15<Urk>jkc: digging?
15:15<jkc>Lying every time you get called out for lying = digging a deeper hole.
15:15<Urk>well excuseeeeee me. .
15:16<Urk>jkc: no lies. I didn't get a response that answered my question.
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15:16<sussudio>jkc: bit late for that guy who used to be a manager for the stones who died a few weeks ago digging a grave for his dog and the hole collapsed in on him
15:16<jkc>Urk: That wasn't your original claim. You claimed that no one responded at all. Of course, that was after you claimed not to have asked the same question in multiple places, which was obviously false as well.
15:17<jkc>Now you're trying to change what you meant after the fact. That's called moving the goalposts, and is also dishonest.,
15:17<jkc>Now stop.
15:17<Urk>jkc: Your comment should be moved to #debian-offtopic.
15:17<jkc>No, I'm pretty sure I'm exactly where I intend to be.
15:18<jkc>Stop being a dishonest turd.
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15:18<sussudio>now he's apparently PMing people on the other network
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15:26<r4fkramer>sorry tjcarter, I was away. Sorry not answering you some hours ago. I think I will have to recreate it. But, how to proceed ?
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15:28<tjcarter>r4fkramer: in XFCE, I'd right-click an empty spot on the panel that I had and select Panel → Panel Preferences… and from there click the plus next to Panel 1 … I don't know how MATE does it exactly but it will be something like that.
15:28<A|an>jkc: Did not know that! Holy hell!
15:29<tjcarter>r4fkramer: in the case of a panel 2 disappearing, I might explicitly delete it if it showed up in my settings but not on screen first, then recreate.
15:29<jkc>A|an: ?
15:29<A|an>stone guy
15:29<A|an>stones guy
15:29<tjcarter>r4fkramer: IRC is not a real-time communication platform, don't worry about the delay.
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15:30<r4fkramer>Yes, tjcarter, at first I tried to find this way, but couldn't find it. Oh fine, thank you.
15:31<tjcarter>r4fkramer: if there's a common control panel thing for MATE (ought to be), panel settings might also be found there.
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15:33<r4fkramer>In fact, I found 'Mate Tweaks' here, and it specifies some options for panels, but not the option I need to recreate it. Quite weird this panel....
15:34<tjcarter>I could use some help with xdotool (or alternative) if someone's particularly skilled with it … XFCE has desktop zoom on (non-configurable) alt + mouse wheel. I would like a mouseless solution. The default keys for this on Cinnamon and Gnome (though Gnome is Gnomically stupid in what it does with it) is alt + super + =/- … I have xdotool sending what I want from a terminal prompt,
15:34<tjcarter>but not when bound to a key
15:35<r4fkramer>Well, I will make a more deep research here. I opened all menus, tested all options in mate, but really can't understand why there isn't any option for this issue.
15:35<tjcarter>xdotool keydown Alt click 4 keyup Alt ← works. But … I have no idea what to do with --clearmodifiers which is not accepted as a global anymore, and doesn't work as an option to keydown
15:36<tjcarter>keydown --clearmodifiers is accepted, but I think it's clearing modifiers before executing the click
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15:38<r4fkramer>I'll check for it here, and see if it's possible to fix it. I haven't tested through this way you suggested, always using mouse when exploring mate menus, tjcarter.
15:40<tjcarter>r4fkramer: the xdotool stuff above is me trying to solve a problem of my own, not related to your panel settings
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15:40<r4fkramer>Ok tjcarter, thanks anyways for attention and for suggestions you gave me :)
15:40<tjcarter>r4fkramer: MATE has a Control Center
15:41<tjcarter>panel settings ought to be hiding in there
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15:44<tjcarter>r4fkramer: you might find this link useful: <> it covers Ubuntu MATE, but the parts that are MATE and not Ubuntu will apply to Debian
15:44<tjcarter>it seems pretty well written at least
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15:46<r4fkramer>I opened MATE Control Center here. I know these options - they are shown in basic mate menus (System). Let me see if there is another option related to my problem here.
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15:47<r4fkramer>Yes, tjcarter, I have the same impression here, and really like MATE - that is always my first choice for DE.
15:48<r4fkramer>tjcarter, thank you very much for hint, probably this site enumerates all the possible options for mate configuration.
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15:49<tjcarter>I meant the article. My current DE of choice is XFCE. Ideally I'd like as little DE as possible … but I have a specific need for a specific feature larger DEs tend to implement reasonably well (except Gnome) and just a Window Manager will sadly not.
15:49<r4fkramer>Really thank You very much for Attention and Great Support, tjcarter ! I thought it would be a bit difficult to find anyone to help me on this because of the day - Sunday.
15:50<tjcarter>I'm legally blind, I depend on being able to zoom the screen
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15:51<r4fkramer>I see tjcarter. In this case, i3wm should be ok for You or not ?
15:52<r4fkramer>I never used i3wm, but I think it has some limitations for this case (zoom the screen).
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15:56<Epakai>gtk3 apps dim on losing focus with some themes. can I disable this without modifying the theme or using another one?
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15:57<tjcarter>r4fkramer: i3 would not be ideal because it has no facility for zoom, and most of my windows are nearly fullscreen on purpose
15:57<tjcarter>Epakai: likely not without modifying the theme
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16:07<r4fkramer>tjcarter, that's what I imagined.
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16:09<tjcarter>r4fkramer: ideally I'd patch xfwm4 to let me change the key from alt + wheel and use it as-is without a DE. It's light, it doesn't strictly require the rest of XFCE, and it does what I want even if it needs better configurability regarding the activation
16:10<tjcarter>but a GUI file manager is occasionally useful, and Thunar gets the job done. And something like a panel is handy to have around … so I use the rest of XFCE too.
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16:11<r4fkramer>tjcarter, have you tested openbox resources ?
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16:12<tjcarter>openbox doesn't have a compositor
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16:12<tjcarter>and compton doesn't have the zoom feature
16:12<r4fkramer>I used LXQt also.
16:12<r4fkramer>I see
16:12<tjcarter>I tried LXQt yesterday, it used xfwm4
16:13<tjcarter>it was fast!
16:13<tjcarter>But it definitely felt like a mish-mash of mixed components (because it still is)
16:14<tjcarter>With XFCE, I'm two keybindings and a panel plugin away from the setup I had with Cinnamon, at a small fraction of the resource usage
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16:16<r4fkramer>I don't use XFCE, but I've seen some screenshots of this graphical environment recently. It seems to me that it has improved a lot aesthetically
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16:17<tjcarter>when it moved to GTK+ 3 it got a lot nicer to use IMO
16:17<r4fkramer>and it's considered very lightweight also
16:17<tjcarter>It's probably on par with MATE these days
16:18<tjcarter>MATE got a little heavier with its port to GTK+ 3 as well
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16:19<r4fkramer>I'm using MATE version 1.20.4, for I'm running 'buster' for now - until tomorrow, when I'll upgrade this debian installation to 'bullseye'. Newer MATE version will have some good new features.
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16:22<tjcarter>I wish you success with the upgrade. Until about two or three weeks ago, I was running Mint 20.2 … I finally decided I had it with Ubuntu (Mint does remove most of Ubuntu's more grievous misfeatures, but far from all) and decided to reinstall Debian. I always come back to Debian on my workstation. I've had little desire to use anything else on a server.
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16:23<Fox684>Same here! I always return to the base distros, I just... like the stability of debian, I dont' care if it's old, I can run new stuff in containerised options.
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16:27<r4fkramer>As a still mediocre Linux based OS user, I've already tested numerous systems, including all the better known BSDs and Kernel Illumos ones like SmartOS, OmniOS,Open Indiana, DilOS and others whose names I don't remember now.But, no OS captivates me as much as Debian - everything works on it precisely and highly stable.
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16:29<Fox684>I didn't see anything interesting in the Release notes, is there any issues with installation or otherwise? I know I had to wait for 10.1 last time, is there any issues with this .0 release?
16:30<sney>it's been pretty smooth as far as most people on IRC
16:31<sney>if you need wifi during installation you'll probably need one of the +nonfree images, but that's been the case for a few releases
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16:31<r4fkramer>Fine Fox684, I don't use any containers, but surely when I need it, I'll certainly use it in debian
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16:32<r4fkramer>tjcarter In fact, there doesn't seem to be any other UNIX-Like OS that is as Rock Solid as Debian. I still use FreeBSD (13.0), but I notice that it doesn't yet have the same level of integration that Debian has with respect to installed packages - at least, with the various packages I have installed here in Debian.
16:32<Fox684>Yeah, I've been picking up the nonfree images for the firmware.
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16:33<tjcarter>I don't think FreeBSD wants that kind of integration
16:33<r4fkramer>Thank you tjcarter, migration to 'bullseye 11.0' for this installation starts tomorrow >)
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16:36<r4fkramer>I really don't know, it seems to me they are specially focused in Servers. But I have been read about Debian usage in Serves, and it it doesn't owe anything to any other OS. Perhaps in the category 'proprietary software for corporate purposes' Debian cannot be on the same level as RHEL, SUSE or Ubuntu Server.
16:37<r4fkramer>Even so, it's a suspicion I have here - I could be mistaken as Siemens uses Debian on all of Their Mission Critical Production Servers - so surely there must be other similar examples out there.
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16:38<Fox684>I'm really sure there's a ton of companies using Debian as their base. I think we might have gotten some converts from the whole CentOS guys too.
16:38<Fox684>*whole fiasco with the CenTOS guys.
16:39<Fox684>Not enough coffee... cannot brain today.
16:40<r4fkramer>Fox684, agree. And w3techs statistics comparing Debian to CentOS have been changed since then. Now, Debian takes 2nd place for Web Servers, only behind Ubuntu.
16:40<Fox684>That's awesome!
16:42<r4fkramer>Fox684, do You know if Google is using Debian on its Server now ? I known about gLinux, a Debian version customized for Google workstations some years ago - it seems they started this project in 2016 or 2017.
16:42<Fox684>I think that Debian is in a really good place, and I love getting a newer LTS kernel.
16:42<Fox684>I'm not sure, I've never really looked at that
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16:45<somiaj> -- there are lots of organizations using debian, though unsure how it compares to other distros
16:45<Tj>We've been migrating from Ubuntu server to Debian Bullseye since last year for all hosts and containers including routers
16:46<somiaj>Though I would expect someone as big as google uses lots of different oses on their servers, and use what fits into the strenghts for particular projects
16:46<Tj>but we do build our own mainline kernels for everything
16:47<somiaj>Tj: Debian works well with that too, (:
16:47<r4fkramer>Fine somiaj.
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16:47<r4fkramer>Tj, you said: "We've migrating...."
16:47<r4fkramer>We ?
16:48<Tj>we have to build and maintain a few upstream projects too, core stuff, systemd for one
16:48<r4fkramer>Tj, You and.... ?
16:48<Tj>r4fkramer: my companies; several thereof
16:48<Fox684>I use "we" a lot. It's the proverbial "we" as in Me, Myself & I. :-D
16:49<Tj>R&D + enterprise stuff, on-premise containerisation
16:49<Fox684>My company is a Redhat shop with some CentOS thrown in.'
16:49<Tj>recently been building kerberos+ldap+tls+gssapi+sasl integrations
16:50<r4fkramer>I'll be writing an article tomorrow, fighting a flamewar that a Debian Group facebook user started doing. Interestingly, ADM did not eliminate offensive comments against Debian and the Debian Community. Reports so absurd and unrealistic that they can even influence some who don't know Debian yet. Even as a newcomer, I can do well in this kind of outreach work for Debian. I've done this other times, and the results were really good, lol
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16:53<r4fkramer>58.593 Members, so I have to manifest anything about debian in its defense
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16:55<another>Tj: Out of curiosity: Why switch from Ubuntu?
16:55<Tj>another: NIH + walled-garden
16:56<r4fkramer>I'm leaving now. Thank you all for your attention and great support as always! :)
16:56<sussudio>if you're on facebook, you've already lost.
16:56<Tj>another: snaps for core tooling
16:56-!-jnavila [~jnavila@2a01:e0a:d1:f360:d787:42d5:3b3a:1b26] has quit []
16:56<alex11>walled garden how?
16:57<another>Tj: ay.
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16:59<r4fkramer>sussudio, I recognize the knowledge limitations of people who use facebook as a reference for social networks. What I see is that, even though it is a very superficial information resource, it is nevertheless a means of mass communication, and that it reaches many people. I have already managed to convince some people to use Debian through this feature.
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17:00<r4fkramer>Of course, you cannot compare the level of approach we have here with what is available there.
17:01<Tj>alex11: stuff that Canonical come up with tends to get left by the wayside and bitrot (e.g. ecryptfs), or things like landscape, livepatch, maas, and so on
17:01<r4fkramer>sussudio, believe in me. I can visit there, but my reference are you around here :) Always.
17:02<jkc>That's not what walled garden means. NIH is a completely subjective and borderline emotional sentiment.
17:02<jkc>And the thing against snaps is... well, also opinion based.
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17:05<jkc>Walled garden means "you can only run what we want you to run," and I don't think I have to explain that Ubuntu, like any other Linux distro, doesn't have that restriction.
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17:05<jkc>I don't have a preference for Ubuntu, but FUD is FUD.
17:05<r4fkramer>I must go now. Thank You very much to everyone for Attention and Great Support :)
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17:06<Tj>I've been an Ubuntu dev since 2004; It's very much a walled garden now
17:06<Fox684>I tried using Ubuntu, but it's the amount of stuff thats done for you that... I really dont want the OS doing anything unless I explicitly tell it to. Sure auto-updates are nice, but that's not what I want.
17:06<r4fkramer>This is a Fact: Debian Warriors will always be the Best! See You :)
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17:07<Tj>e.g. the "Ubuntu kernel team' was once community based; then suddenly it was closed off and only open to Canonical employees; same with several other areas
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17:08<jkc>Fox684: Oh, I'm not saying that people can't have preferences. I don't use Ubuntu for most things for similar reasons. But spreading out-and-out bullshit? No.
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17:10<Fox684>Oh, I'm not privy to all the BS, I don't keep on top of Ubuntu anymore.
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17:11<jkc>Fox684: Calling Ubuntu a walled garden is an example. iOS is a walled garden. Ubuntu is anything but.
17:11<Fox684>Yeah I was gonna say, It uses the linux kernel and is built to similar OS's, it shouldn't be a walled garden...
17:12<Fox684>You can do the uber-nerd thing and pull stuff out and modify the tar out of it.
17:12<Tj>Fox684: it's a walled garden in that Ubuntu 'community' members cannot contribute meaningfully in certain areas
17:12<Fox684>But at that point, you might as well start with a Debian base and build only what you want on top (which is what I do).
17:12<jkc>This is venturing quite off-topic, sorry about that.
17:12<tjcarter>jkc: snap is a walled garden
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17:13<jkc>If that's what you think, you don't even know what snaps are.
17:13<tjcarter>jkc: I know that Canonical can decide on a whim that some developer is "problematic" and permanently revoke their right to ever publish one ever again.
17:13<tjcarter>that is antithetical to Free Software
17:14<tjcarter>and it's deeply offensive
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17:14<tjcarter>Ubuntu itself … is just a Linux distribution
17:14<tjcarter>but snap is a threat to free software
17:14<jkc>And entirely inaccurate.
17:15<jkc>Like, complete and utter nonsense.
17:15<tjcarter>jkc: can you set up your own snap store?
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17:15<tjcarter>do you need a canonical account to publish a snap?
17:15<tjcarter>Can canonical ban you from that account?
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17:16<jkc>Actually, the correct question regarding "walled garden" is "do I need a snap store to install a snap at all?"
17:16<jkc>The answer is no.
17:16<jkc>So, again, STOP SPREADING BULLSHIT.
17:17<tjcarter>you cannot set up a snap server and the snap client would not talk to it if you did
17:17<ansgar>jkc: It's jsut like using a Twitter client without by reimplementing (possible, but unlikely to happen).
17:18<jkc>That's also not true.
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17:18<jkc>There is nothing about snaps that requires a connection to anywhere else.
17:18<jkc>The snap store makes it easier, sure, but thats like saying you can't sideload an apk on an Android device.
17:18<jkc>A snap is just a squashfs filesystem.
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17:19<tjcarter>sideload, as in not the intended way of installation
17:19<ansgar>One can also sideload apps on iOS. :)
17:19<Fox682>Sorry, I'm back. My internet connection is questionable at best.
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17:19<jkc>Only by screwing with the OS in a way that it wasn't intended. Even that's not true about snaps/Ubuntu.
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17:20<jkc>ansgar: So, I'll ask the same of you. STOP SPREADING BULLSHIT. :)
17:21*tjcarter notes that anyone can set up a flatpak server, add a flatpak server to flatpak, and they need not "sideload" anything.
17:21<jkc>Oh, and to further put this topic to bed, yes, you can run alternative snap stores.
17:21<jkc>So just fscking stop it already.
17:22<ansgar>jkc: What? It's perfectly possible. STOP CLAIMING IT IS NOT!
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17:25<jkc>And now I go eat something.
17:25*jkc &
17:27<dpkg>i guess idc is "I don't care" or "I don't give a fuck"
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18:14<xdebian>how install epśon L800 debian
18:16<sney>if ipp-usb is installed and running, you should only need to connect the printer
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18:21<xdebian>sudo apt install cups printer-driver-escpr ... i have tried to no avail
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18:22<xdebian>ipp-usb .. how to install?
18:22<xdebian>debian 11
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18:23<sney>with apt, it's included with most desktops
18:23<xdebian>debian well
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18:31<tjcarter>Solved XFCE zoom from keyboard … sortof.
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18:32<tjcarter>What used to be xdotool --clearmodifiers keydown Alt click 4 keup Alt … does not have a direct equivalent anymore. --clearmodifiers is an argument to various commands, but keydown --clearmodifiers Alt does not do what you'd hope
18:33<tjcarter>Ultimately, create a shortcut for Alt+= that runs xdotool click 4 … just that. And for Alt+- to xdotool click 5.
18:34<tjcarter>(If you change xfwm4's key for moving windows etc from Alt to Super, change the binds accordingly.)
18:36<xdebian>you're all zombies
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20:36<mmiller>need to reset root password
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20:38<tjcarter>mmiller: are you local and do you use anything like full disk encryption?
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20:48<mooff>i have the following script: sleep 1; xset s blank; xset dpms force off
20:48<mooff>it runs when i press a hotkey
20:49<mooff>sometimes, a program (i think mpv) keeps some kind of wake lock that turns the screen back on after 3-5 seconds
20:49<mooff>how on earth can i stop that?! and/or debug what is causing the wakes
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20:56<mooff>the use case is i want to fall asleep to a podcast with the screen off..
20:57<mooff>i use a low blank time (5 minutes), and it blanks if left to its own accord
20:57<somiaj>Since this is more core in xorg, there is probably something apps can do to tell xorg to ignore screen blanking
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20:58<mooff>Firefox and mpv don't seem to make that happen
20:58<mooff>i think i even had trouble getting caffeinate to work
20:59<somiaj>I don't know how to deal with this though, I just know that sometimes my screen blanks and other times it doesn't, but I don't know the internals of how this works
20:59<mooff>i use i3-gnome and want to blame gnome
20:59<mooff>somiaj: i am in the same state :(
21:00<somiaj>hmm, sleep 1; xset s blank doesn't even work here to blank...:/
21:02<somiaj>well looking at the manual page, I wonder if turning off exposure events can help here
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21:02<somiaj>does 'xset s noexpose' help?
21:03<somiaj>oh maybe not, this seems to be if exposure events get sent or not, that didn't do what I thoguht it did
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21:03<mooff>i thought from Googling that noexpose there referred to whether a screenshot can expose part of your desktop screen buffer, or whether it has to be hidden
21:04<mooff>try xset dpms force off
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21:04<somiaj>here it is about xlib and expose events, 'noexpose' sets the preference to disable screen saver unless the server can regenerate the screens without causing exposure events.
21:04<somiaj>mooff: it is 'xset s activate'
21:05<somiaj>xset s blank mearly sets the default to blank, but doeosn't actually activate it
21:05<somiaj>ahh blank does is make the prefernce to blank the video vs display a pattern
21:06<mooff>somiaj: i got the commands from StackOverflow some time back in a haze while wanting to fall asleep
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21:07<mooff>iirc the 'xset dpms force off' did it, but i think i thought 'xset s blank' made it more reliable
21:08<mooff>re-wake definitely happening because mpv is playing
21:10<fudgespinner>so what's the most reliable way to reclock Nvidia graphics card running with nouveau driver?
21:10<fudgespinner>I did had issue where it will freeze the machine for several seconds before reboots itself.
21:11<mooff>somiaj: most other times, the displays blank automatically when i don't want them to, when i'm playing stuff in mpv
21:11<mooff>it has this habit of doing the opposite of what i want!
21:11<mooff>fudgespinner: on the face of it, i would suggest "don't"
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21:14<fudgespinner>I didn't meant to message you
21:14<fudgespinner>sorry, really new to IRC here
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21:26<fudgespinner>my graphics card is Nvidia GeForce 9500 GT. which only has one state for normal and boot clock. 400 core and 800 shader for boot clock. in MHz. 550 and 1350 for normal operation, i.e. when proprietary driver was used or I reclock it.
21:26<fudgespinner>correction: one state for normal clock speed
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21:28<fudgespinner>oh, never mind. I recently reclock it via sysfs and the freezing issue did not occurred anymore.
21:30<mooff>a 9500 GT!
21:30<mooff>nice vintage, that
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21:32<mjorgensen>ah, back when graphics cards weren't the largest thing in a machine!
21:32<fudgespinner>I brought it because I need to desperately want something to run Doom 3, which the Intel GMA 4500 can't even do at more than 10-11 fps
21:34<fudgespinner>well, I'm using Pentium Dual-core machine from 2011. A ThinkCentre A70 to be exact.
21:35<mooff>the 9xxx GT's beast Source games
21:36<mooff>fudgespinner: rather than overclocking i'd recommend trying a legacy Nvidia driver from non-free
21:37<mooff>!non free
21:37<somiaj>how far back the legacy drivers go, eventaully there are cards that they no longer support
21:37<dpkg>[non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
21:37<somiaj>mostly because they don't complie against newer kernels
21:38<mooff>good point somiaj
21:38<fudgespinner>mooff: I'm not trying to overclock, rather setting the power state out of its initial boot clock
21:39<mooff>same suggestion from me ^^
21:39<fudgespinner>fair enough
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22:30<r4fkramer>Please, I'm removing some old kernel version in 'buster' before to upgrade it to 'bullseye', but I don't understand why these directories weren't removed during the process of removing the specified kernel versions:
22:30<r4fkramer>Should I have to remove them manually always ?
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22:37<somiaj>the info you pasted is not enough to know why, look in that directory and see what is there. Most likely some third party module you compiled against the kernel
22:37<somiaj>the nvidia gpu module is a common one, so is some broadcom wirless module
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22:39<r4fkramer>OK somiaj, but anyway, they referred to old kernel versions (some of them already removed). Can I simply remove them ?
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22:39<r4fkramer>they are referred to...
22:41<somiaj>yea, you can just remove those directories if you no longer need what is in there, hence you should look first.
22:42<somiaj>dpkg is just saying hey, I'm not going to remove this directory because something else is in there, just letting you know
22:42<dpkg>You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, somiaj
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22:42<somiaj>and in this case it is most likely a third party module that was compiled and copied into the directory
22:42<somiaj>but without seeing what is in the directory, this is just a guess
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22:46<r4fkramer>I'm still using linux-image-4.19.0-17-amd64 now, till tomorrow, when I'll upgrade this debian installation to 'bullseye'. Is there any risc to remove these directories ? I checked inside some of them, and they don't seem to be necessary for now.
22:46<r4fkramer>Sorry if this question is so bad formulated.
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22:47<somiaj>you should not remove your running kernel
22:47<somiaj>didn't you get some warning when trying to do that?
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22:48<r4fkramer>somiaj, sure, I'm not referring to kernel I'm using (linux-image-4.19.0-17-amd64 in this case; but others won't be used anymore).
22:49<r4fkramer>No, only these messages related to empty directories
22:50<r4fkramer>And always related to old kernels I'm no using anymore.
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22:54<somiaj>oh wait, yea, I missread the past, I just saw the kernel mentioned, didn't noticed that one wasn't removed
22:54<somiaj>yea, it is most likely safe to remove those directories. I was just trying to say, look first, see what is there, think about what is there and why, and act appropertly
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22:57<r4fkramer>Yes, somiaj, I understood you - unfortunately you tend not understand me more clearly because bad english here sometimes. So, it's my fault, sorry.
22:58<somiaj>no it was my bad, I just glanced at your paste and saw 4.19.0-17, and thought you shouldn't be removing it, my mistake
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22:58<somiaj>and you weren't removing it, it was just being mentioned due to triggers
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23:00<r4fkramer>Oh, and the only problem now is that I have 4 debian installations with 'btrfs', a fs I don't want to use anymore. After some dialogues I had with You and other debian warriors here, I decided only use ext4 for now.
23:01<r4fkramer>But, I suspect I can't replace these 'btrfs' fs to 'ext4'. Is that possible ?
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23:02<somiaj>not in place, but you could use rysnc -a, or cp -a (from a live system if it is a root file system)
23:03<somiaj>copy all your data to an ext4 partition, then configure/install grub
23:03<somiaj>so it would take a little bit of work, deciding where to move your data too, creating new filesystems, then making your system bootable again
23:03<somiaj>also the knowledge of how to deal with things, but this is good practice for backup/recovery type situations
23:04<r4fkramer>Great. I can do it as a good exercise too. Fine, so there is this possibility using rysnc -a from a debian live-dvd/usb.
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23:05<somiaj>yup, the -a flag ensures all permsisions are coppied correctly
23:06<r4fkramer>Yes, backup/recovery is absolutely necessary - better taking care in these cases. Please, somiaj, does it take too long time to be done ?
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23:07<somiaj>depends on the amount of data you have and what you are backing up to, usb3 isn't to bad, but it can still take a while to copy a 20gigs
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23:08<r4fkramer>Oh yeah, in this case, about 125 GB size
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23:20<r4fkramer>somiaj, anyway I'll proceed like your suggestion to copy my data to a new ext4 partition using rysnc.Thank you very much for Attention and Great Support !:)
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 20 00:00:45 2021