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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-23

---Logopened Thu Sep 23 00:00:49 2021
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00:16<twb>So vp8->vp9->av1. Does Debian 11 understand av1? Can I make ffmpeg emit it?
00:17<twb>"libdav1d4" looks relevant -- decoder only
00:17<twb>And libaom0 is the encoder
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00:29<twb>OK so after a little poking, it's ffmpeg ... -vcodec libaom-av1 -strict -2
00:29<twb>The "-strict -2" is because Debian 11 ships a not-good-enough libaom
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01:25<Urk>I am wondering how I may fix a bootup error that says failed to load kernel modules? This error started after switching from the Noveau driver to Nvidia drivers. There are a couple of other error messages at bootup, but the screen goes by so fast I couldn't read them, and I am having trouble finding them with dmesg. To slow the bootup, I reduced the processors from 6 to 1, and also shut off the turbo boost or I would not have been able to even read
01:25<Urk>the first error that says failed to load kernel modules.
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01:26<Urk>I found some suggestion at the following URL, but it isn't Debian specific so I thought I would reach out to folks to see whats the best approach. Except for the error messages at bootup, no other problem is detected. Also, I attempted to disable some services to see if that too would allow me to slow down the bootup https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/622839/debian-slow-boot-slow-login-time-screen
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01:27<twb>Urk: if it's a kernel message, find it in "journalctl -k -b-1"
01:27<twb>Urk: if it's a ramdisk message, you can pause startup with "break=bottom" in the boot: args
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01:28<twb>Urk: "failed to load kernel modules" after switching to non-free nvidia GPU driver, sounds like it's probably failing to load driver (module) for either nouveau or nvidia.
01:29<Urk>twb: where does this "break=bottom" go to pause the startup?
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01:29<twb>at the boot: prompt
01:29<twb>near "initrd=initrd.img" and "quiet splash"
01:31<Urk>ok Thanks. I am going to continue with this in the morning. Its getting really late.
01:38<Urk>twb: Journal Control isn't coming up http://paste.debian.net/1212923/
01:40<Urk>If I leave off the -1 at the end then it comes up.
01:40<twb>good enogh
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01:45<Urk>twb: I just ran Jounralctl -k -b | grep -v FAILED and it came back with a few errors. \
01:45<Urk>http://paste.debian.net/1212924/
01:46<Urk>At the bottom, it says broken atomic modeset userspace detected, disabling atomic. And two lines underneath that it says psmouse seriol1: Failed to enable mouse on isa0060/seriol.
01:47<Urk>I don't recall getting these errors before switching to the Nvidia from Noveau. Howeer, performace seems to be quicker.
01:47<Urk>What is atomic modeset? Is this something I can uninstall?
01:48<twb>"modeset" is how your kernel drives your GPU
01:48<Urk>How do I fix this error?
01:49<twb>I don't really support nvidia GPUs. I guess something was broken when you switchedd
01:49<Urk>Are you saying I would be better off going back to Noveau from Nvidia? Someone in another channel said I would be better off with Nvidia, but it doesn't look like it.
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01:50<twb>Urk: I don't support the proprietary nvidia driver at all. I don't support the nouveau driver much either.
01:50<Urk>twb: I have an Intel GPU
01:50<twb>In my opinion, you would be better off just using intel GPUs and never giving nvidia any money
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01:52<Urk>twb: I didn't give Nvidia any money. I ran an Nvidia detect, and followed instructions for updating Noveau to Nvidia. It cost me nothing, but it looks like there are some problems. The Noveau driver is the one that came by default with Debian 10.9
01:52<twb>Urk: if you have an intel GPU, both nouveau and nvidia drivers are irrelevant
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01:59<Urk>twb: I am not sure if I have an Intel GPU. I suspect I have Nvidia or the Nvidia detect utility wouldn't have installed the software. This is the results of lspci -v | less http://paste.debian.net/1212926/
02:00<twb>16 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation CoffeeLake-H GT2 [UHD Graphics 630] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
02:00<twb>This is an intel GPU
02:00<twb>You have no nvidia GPU
02:00<twb>You should undo whatever nvidia-related steps you have done.
02:00<twb>If this is a fresh install, it is probably safer and easier to just reinstall.
02:01<Urk>twb: I have an Nvidia GPU http://paste.debian.net/1212927/
02:02<Urk>I am completely tired of reinstalling. I will likely back documents, pictures, and desktop. Is there a way to fix the atomic issue?
02:02<Urk>Seems like I have a knack for breaking things.
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02:07<twb>Urk: why didn't that contrller show up in the previous lspci?
02:07<Urk>twb: I didn't scroll down far enough, and it was definitely in the previous.
02:08<twb>ah you did not paste the entire output
02:08<Urk>Don't forget I used the | less command.
02:08<Urk>twb: I will paste it now.
02:08<twb>try |pastebinit next time
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02:10<Urk>http://paste.debian.net/1212928/
02:11<twb>Interesting I've never seen it says "3D" instead of "VGA" before
02:12<Urk>Where do you see the 3D?
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02:12<Urk>I see it.
02:13<Urk>There is quite a bit of Nvidia in the repository, but I am wondering if there are some issues that should have prevented it from going into to stable? At this point 10.9 is legacy.
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02:16<Urk>I am currently running the nvidia-driver, and nvidia-driver-bin
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02:16<Urk>Are the problems I am having with atomic and the serial mouse from the nvidia-driver? Is there a way to test for this?
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02:17<twb>I don't know. I don't support nvidia.
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02:19<richard_h>Urk: Owning an nVidia GPU suggests that someone paid for it :-)
02:20<Urk>It came with my 2019 Dell 15 7590 that I purchased earlier in the year from the Del Refurbished store.
02:20<richard_h>re: (17:52:05) Urk: twb: I didn't give Nvidia any money.
02:21<richard_h>fair enough, I guess
02:21<Urk>richard_h: Do you have an XPS 15 7590? I didn't give Nvidia any money directly either.
02:21<bentham>Perhaps the Nvidia chip was part of a corporate purchase that eventually depreciated to zero on the corporation's books, and then was donated to a local charity in exchange for tax breaks...
02:21<richard_h>I don't think so ...
02:22<richard_h>no, I don't have any Dell
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02:23<richard_h>or, IIRC, any machine with an nVidia GPU
02:23<twb>richard_h: note that Nvidia now owns all ARM
02:23<bentham>I don't understand why Nvidia would insist on having non-free firmware. Presumably its hardware is proprietary already.
02:24<twb>richard_h: so if you bought a phone recently, nvidia made some money :(
02:24<richard_h>true :-(
02:24<twb>bentham: in THEORY it makes it easier to keep their trade secrets secret from AMD
02:24<twb>bentham: I don't know how realistic this theory is
02:25<bentham>twb: Sounds like bunk mixed with an abundance of caution and a dash of callousness for its users.
02:25<richard_h>don't they also claim that since they license some of their technology from other people, they can't release it even if they wanted to?
02:25<richard_h>possibly similar bunk etc :-)
02:26<twb>richard_h: that was the case for Intel GMA500, which was a Poulsbo chip
02:26<bentham>richard_h: You're a charitable sort. :)
02:26<bentham>(In that case Nvidia should have negotiated better.)
02:26<twb>It's why I didn't buy one of these: https://content.abt.com/image.php/big_VPCP11SKXBI.jpg?image=/images/products/BDP_Images/big_VPCP11SKXBI.jpg&canvas=1&quality=100&min_w=450&min_h=320&ck=433
02:26<richard_h>bentham: but a grumpy one :-)
02:27<richard_h>the mobile market is too tied up with proprietary stuff to fight at the moment :-(
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02:28<twb>I mean, how sexy is that, a ultrabook with a mock croc finish
02:29<richard_h>not fussed about the croc skin stuff ...
02:30<richard_h>would rather have carbon fibre or something
02:30<twb>It was meant to look like a clutch
02:31<twb>It wasn't actually PRACTICAL at all.
02:31<richard_h>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch#/media/File:Clutchdisc.jpg I don't see the similarity ;-)
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02:33<Urk>I just posted a trouble ticket to Nvidia's website about the problem. I am hitting the sack, and it is way past my bed time.
02:34<bentham>richard_h: When you speak of the mobile market, what do you think of Pinephone? It runs Debian...
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02:37<twb>I have one; it's not remotely usable as a phone
02:37<richard_h>bentham: well, it's still ARM, and I think Mali is problematic too, right? And aren't all cellular chips unusable with Free software?
02:37<twb>it's sunxi SoC also, which is not good if you care about freedom
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02:40<bentham>twb: You can certainly use it with linphonec to make VoIP calls ;)
02:40<richard_h>bentham: over cellular internet? Or just wifi etc?
02:40<twb>bentham: I could not make PSTN calls because the microphone quality was too poor
02:41<twb>both ghosting and clipping
02:41<bentham>richard_h: Both, as far as I know.
02:41<richard_h>afaik many telcos also ban voip
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02:41<twb>I was testing with the OEM pmOS with phosh and pa. I don't remember what the dialer was, but it was OEM.
02:41<bentham>richard_h: you could tunnel it to your server.
02:41<richard_h>how does that help?
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02:42<bentham>richard_h: it avoids speaking straight VoIP on the line to your mobile carrier.
02:43<bentham>You could set up e.g. wireguard on both ends.
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02:43<richard_h>so enabling me to break the T&C without getting caught?
02:43<richard_h>I have no idea if they enforce it anyway
02:43<bentham>richard_h: Not sure what the T&C are; I assumed you were speaking of a technical limitation.
02:44<richard_h>no, I meant that (eg) Vodafone NZ (last I looked) had a ban on VOIP over their network
02:44<richard_h>rules, not technical
02:45<bentham>Does that ban apply to any use of VoIP or just VoIP packets that traverse its network? You might consider speaking to a lawyer.
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02:46<richard_h>no idea. Other things to spend time (and money) on :-)
02:47<bentham>Parenthetically, I'd say that mobile carriers should not be allowed to market something as 'Internet' without allowing you to do anything (legal) with it.
02:47<richard_h>well, yes
02:48<bentham>Anyway, twb's issue was with microphone quality. I find it hard to believe that it was that bad. Maybe a bad driver? Maybe it will get better?
02:48<richard_h>twb: does the PinePhone let you talk IP over cellular ok?
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02:48<richard_h>given that most of my phone use isn't talking anyway :-)
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02:49<twb>I don't remember if I tested that
02:49<twb>I could browse to youtube with firefox, probably over wifi
02:49<twb>firefox often crashed without warning for most other sites though
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02:49<awal1>how to know if x pkg is gtk2 or gtk3?
02:49<bentham>Speaking personally, I'd never want to use a cellular network. It is never private, because of the technical requirement for an IMEI and the legal requirement in most countries to not rotate it.
02:50<twb>awal1: look at Depends
02:50<awal1>twb, good idea
02:50<bentham>Wifi should be good enough, unless you're constantly driving a car, or constantly in the wilderness.
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02:52<richard_h>bentham: nothing is perfect. Most of my internet traffic is SSL/TLS, and I don't care enough about text messages and voice calls. I try not to send sensitive info over text messages.
02:53-!-Jeffrey is now known as Sion
02:53<bentham>richard_h: I'm mostly concerned with metadata leakage, not lack of encryption per se. But I can appreciate that you might disagree.
02:53<richard_h>I guess I care, but not enough :-)
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02:54<Pops>Have you tried Session Messenger?
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02:55<richard_h>me? no.
02:56<Pops>Its a fork from Signal
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02:56<richard_h>for instant messaging, if I have to use it, I use what the other end uses, otherwise there's no-one to talk to :-)
02:57<bentham>Signal is highly centralised and unsustainable, relying too much on an ever-dwindling foundation budget.
02:57<bentham>It gets all the metadata.
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02:57<richard_h>so: SMS, IRC, Matrix at the moment. Sometimes Rocketchat or Zoom if need be.
02:58<bentham>I appreciate that Session is supposedly decentralised, although without knowing more I would believe that this team has not done the same work that Tor has done over the past two decades to address metadata leakage.
02:58<richard_h>previously XMPP
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02:58<bentham>If you want private instant messaging, consider Ricochet Refresh, Cwtch, or Onionshare instead.
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02:59<Pops>That's why i mentioned Session because its not centralised like signal and Telegram etc. Problem with most people. They don't care about privacy and security. You should ask them to give you their passwords to email address or keys to their house. They will refuse.
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02:59<richard_h>Pops: in debian?
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03:00<bentham>And, for the first two, consider being a Debian Maintainer, also. :)
03:01<Pops>Concider using WHonix
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03:02<richard_h>too much deviation. I'd rather just see Debian improve.
03:03<bentham>onionshare and ricochet-im are in Debian.
03:05<richard_h>and who would I talk to?
03:05<bentham>That isn't a technical question...
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03:06<richard_h>of course not. But it's an important one.
03:06<richard_h>What's the point of any messaging system if you're the only one on it?
03:06<Pops>Just sitting there saying "who am i going to talk to" isn't gonna get you anywhere
03:06<bentham>I think people negotiate the venue when they communicate. Negotiate harder. ;)
03:07<richard_h>because it'
03:07<richard_h>it's starting at the wrong end
03:08<richard_h>depends how much influence you have over the people you want to talk to
03:09<bentham>richard_h: and how much influence they have over you!
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03:09<richard_h>true
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03:10<Pops>If your friends wanna stay in contact with you. Then they have to make the switch won't they.
03:10<Pops>Just say "It's too buggy".
03:11<bentham>For people who won't switch, I suggest writing letters and sending them in the post :)
03:11<Pops>^
03:11<richard_h>email still works, for now :-)
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03:13<richard_h>Pops: now you're just reminding me how few friends I have. Thanks :-(
03:13<Pops>Sorry about that
03:13<richard_h>probably because people I know communicate via facebook, and I don't ...
03:14<bentham>That's probably because you've thought about how Facebook works for more than a few nanoseconds.
03:15<richard_h>I even used it for a few years (though not much)
03:15<Pops>I never used Facebook or any other social media. Life is less stressful when you remove all the shit and expectations
03:15<bentham>^
03:15<richard_h>to some extent. Gets depressing when you find out you've missed weddings etc ...
03:16<Pops>Then you find out who are your real friends then
03:16<bentham>richard_h: Surely there are other ways to stay in touch with people. I know it might be harder.
03:17<bentham>I have great sympathy for your situation.
03:18<richard_h>I think I'd better quit this conversation now. It's off-topic, anyway :-)
03:18<Pops>Whonix is amazing :P
03:18<Pops>It's Debian
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05:28<Konomi>Does anyone know if memtest86 when started via grub has it's own kernel or anything like that?
05:29<tjcarter>it doesn't use linux
05:30<tjcarter>it's very much its own little thing
05:30<Konomi>Good cause getting freezes in Debian and in memtest86 I just needed to know how little it used to try and fix the fault
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05:58<Guest751>hi. I'm having issues with sddm. When I login the session is blank with no options. it worked before i updated to sid
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05:59<bentham>Guest751: hmm, 'sid'
05:59<bentham>suggest you join #debian-next and ask there
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06:14-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:14-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has left #debian [Error from remote client]
06:15-!-qwer [~qwer@89-24-48-218.nat.epc.tmcz.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:15-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:15-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:16-!-harold [~harold@lfbn-lyo-1-490-81.w2-7.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit []
06:16-!-harold [~harold@lfbn-lyo-1-490-81.w2-7.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
06:16-!-harold is "harold" on #debian
06:16-!-harold [~harold@lfbn-lyo-1-490-81.w2-7.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit []
06:16-!-qwer [~qwer@89-24-48-218.nat.epc.tmcz.cz] has joined #debian
06:16-!-qwer is "real name" on #debian #linuxtv #Corsair #debian-boinc #debian-gaming #debian-hamchat #linux-storage #linuxfriends #radeon #retroshare #vectorlinux
06:16-!-harold is "harold" on #debian
06:16-!-harold [~harold@lfbn-lyo-1-490-81.w2-7.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
06:22-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:22-!-voyager1 is "user" on #debian
06:23-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:25-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:25-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:26-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:27-!-jipege [~quassel@2a01:cb19:85fa:2d00:c1e0:37ab:4f32:3ec4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:28-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:28-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:30-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:31-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:31-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:33-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:33<crawler>Is there a debmirror alternative?
06:34-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:34-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:36-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:38-!-Tob [~tob@212.7.241.136] has joined #debian
06:38-!-Tob is "realname" on #debian
06:38-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:38-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:38-!-gtristan [~tristan@223.38.23.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:39-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:40-!-richard_h [~richard@2406:e001:8:a900:6e62:6dff:fe05:ae29] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:41-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:41-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:42-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:43-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:45-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:45-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:46-!-ultra [~ultra@134.17.86.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:46-!-fudgespinner [~fudgespin@2403:6200:8881:53a:a397:2dfa:1951:ff8d] has quit [Quit: snoozing.]
06:46-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has joined #debian
06:46-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
06:46-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:46-!-ultra [~ultra@134.17.86.123] has joined #debian
06:46-!-ultra is "ultra" on #ceph-devel #ceph #debian #kernelnewbies
06:48-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:48-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:49-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:51-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:51-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
06:52-!-Brigo [~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:56-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has left #debian [Error from remote client]
06:57-!-leonardorocha [~leonardo@2804:14d:882:a24c:6209:1508:e5c7:24c1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:57-!-seeS [~quassel@118.211.119.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:59-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:01-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:01-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:01-!-fudgespinner [~fudgespin@2403:6200:8881:53a:a397:2dfa:1951:ff8d] has joined #debian
07:01-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #oftc #debian #debian-offtopic
07:03-!-fudgespinnerxd [~fudgespin@2403:6200:8881:53a:a397:2dfa:1951:ff8d] has joined #debian
07:03-!-fudgespinnerxd is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #oftc #debian
07:05-!-dpkg [~dpkg@dpkg.bot.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: buh bye!]
07:05-!-tzf[m] [~Tyzef@202.153.82.60] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
07:05-!-tzf[m] [~Tyzef@202.153.82.60] has joined #debian
07:05-!-tzf[m] is "0" on #debian #nakedeb #3hg
07:05-!-figueredo [~figueredo@177.130.147.166] has joined #debian
07:05-!-figueredo is "Lourisvaldo Figueredo Junior" on #debian
07:06-!-dpkg [~dpkg@dpkg.bot.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:06-!-dpkg is "apt backup" on #debian
07:06-!-fudgespinner [~fudgespin@2403:6200:8881:53a:a397:2dfa:1951:ff8d] has quit []
07:06-!-fudgespinnerxd [~fudgespin@2403:6200:8881:53a:a397:2dfa:1951:ff8d] has quit []
07:06-!-xylo [c55663548b@125.236.225.172] has joined #debian
07:06-!-xylo is "xylo" on #debian
07:06-!-fudgespinner [~fudgespin@2403:6200:8881:53a:a397:2dfa:1951:ff8d] has joined #debian
07:06-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #oftc #debian #debian-offtopic
07:07-!-wayne2 [~wayne@178.162.194.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:08-!-wayne2 [~wayne@178.162.194.66] has joined #debian
07:08-!-wayne2 is "..." on #debian
07:08-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
07:08-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
07:08-!-subcritical [~subcritic@2.154.50.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
07:08-!-subcritical is "Jaime" on #debian
07:09-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:11-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:11-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:11-!-subcritical [~subcritic@2.154.50.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit []
07:12-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:14-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:14-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:15-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:16-!-thiras [~thiras@24.133.81.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:17-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40863a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
07:17-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:17-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:18-!-TCZ [~tcz@91.150.165.88] has joined #debian
07:18-!-TCZ is "Jan Kowalski" on #archownia.pl #archlinux.org.pl #debian #moocows #openstack-pl #devuan
07:18-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:19-!-mnemonic [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2.1]
07:19-!-robobox [~robobox@173.209.107.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:19-!-Jan\ [~kvirc@104.204.200.116] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
07:20-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:20-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:21-!-ftobich [~fabio@seven.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:21-!-ftobich is "Fabio A. De Muzio Tobich" on #debian-cwb #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-br #debian-devel-changes
07:22-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:23-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:23-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:25-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:27-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:27-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:28-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:30-!-TCZ [~tcz@91.150.165.88] has quit []
07:30-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:30-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:32-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:33-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:33-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:35-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:36-!-ach [~spo@ip-109-43-51-102.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
07:36-!-ach is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #spooky #debian
07:37-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:37-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:38-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:40-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:40-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:41-!-pert [~pert@00029085.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:41-!-pert is "John Scott" on #debian #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-next
07:47-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:49-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:49-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
07:52-!-ahso [~Thunderbi@2601:404:c900:428:30b8:27d0:59be:4580] has joined #debian
07:52-!-ahso is "ahso" on #debian-next #debian #debian-wsl
07:53-!-andeywdo [~anon1@p57a56237.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
07:53-!-andeywdo is "realname" on #debian
07:54-!-pert [~pert@00029085.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: pert]
07:54-!-pert [~pert@00029085.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:54-!-pert is "John Scott" on #debian #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-next
07:55<andeywdo>Hi. I want to record myself. webcam, mic built in laptop. Any recs what program to use?
07:56<andeywdo>I tried cheese but it only recorded webcam. I tried vlc but mic for some reason doesn't work. I use debian buster
07:57-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:58-!-nulleip [~luiz@189.34.167.234] has left #debian []
07:59-!-Brigo [~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
07:59-!-Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
07:59-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:59-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
08:00-!-phunyguy [~blaahchm@h96-61-21-149.kgldga.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit []
08:00-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:00-!-phunyguy [~blaahchm@h96-61-21-149.kgldga.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #debian
08:00-!-phunyguy is "Phuny Guy" on #ovirt #debian #ceph
08:02-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:02-!-milan is "Milan Kupcevic" on #spi #debian-rant #debian-offtopic #debian-ubuntu #ceph #ceph-devel #debian-devel-changes #debian-social #debian-next #debian #debian-lists #debian-meeting #virt #sepia #ceph-orchestrators #ceph-dashboard #ceph-ansible #oftc #moocows #debian-live #debian-academy #debian-gnupg #debian-trademark #debian-privacy #debian-hugs #debian-dpkg
08:02-!-nulleip [~luiz@189.34.167.234] has joined #debian
08:02-!-nulleip is "Luiz" on #debian
08:03-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: -]
08:03-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:05-!-milan [~milan@000268e7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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08:11<stsquad>obs?
08:11<stsquad>I think I used the snap version to get the latest build
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08:33<jkc>obs is my go to for any kind of decent recording
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08:38<OD>Anyone here used to work with SCSI? I don't have a problem just trying to find some truth from the stuff I've read - this is about the physical part of SCSI - not the protocol (but that too would be good to ask some questions about)
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08:42<jkc>Ask away.
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08:49<andeywdo>jkc thanks I will check it out
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08:58<user_>I thought to increase my Linux skills (pretty much beginner :D ) and came across the Linuxfoundation which offers a lot of trainings etc. But since I saw who is sponsoring this foundation, I am not sure if this is the right place... do you have any recommendation where to start general Linux training? Thx!
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09:03<bentham>That question might be too big for this channel.
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09:04<bentham>Not exactly off-topic, just ... big.
09:04<ansgar>But not too big for the local library!
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09:13<user_>yeah, understand :) maybe someone can pass some thoughts by private message, not to overload this chat..
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09:17<trench>user_: start by reading howto's there is a lot of them.. debian has a handbook too
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09:18<ansgar>I would recommend not reading howtos.
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09:20<jkc>Seconded. Most how-tos are utter trash
09:22<bentham>Your local library is probably the way to go, frankly. At least it will help you discover new questions to ask, which you can bring back here.
09:22<bentham>Good luck.
09:23<grawity>imo if it's called "how-to" there's at least some chance it'll be good, not like the copy&pasted "tutorials" that just say "run these exact commands in this exact order and things happen"
09:23<jkc>Local library? If you want to read about debian lenny, maybe.
09:24<jkc>Debian handbook. Go.
09:24<jkc>https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/index.en.html
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09:24<bentham>jkc: I'm assuming that we're still in the discovery stage. What is Linux? What are its components? What is GNU? And so on.
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09:26<jkc>The specific request was "skills," not "lore."
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09:27<ansgar>jkc: There are enough books explaining basics. They haven't changed that much: ls is still ls :)
09:28<bentham>People need to know some basic context before they know what skills to develop. This is about personal choices. I happen to like the Debian handbook, but I'm not sure that I would suggest it is the Ur-text of Linux.
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09:28<jkc>bentham: I never said it was the Ur-text of Linux. This is #debian, not #linux.
09:28<jkc>ansgar: And that might be one of the few examples of things that haven't changed. If they want to learn to administer a Debian system, antiquated material is not helping them.
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09:29<bentham>jkc: Sure, although the question was about Linux, not Debian. You might think that is off-topic; I just think it is too big.
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09:29<bentham>And I don't think that the question was about how to administer a (Linux) system.
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09:30<bentham>Although perhaps that question might come next, once the user determines what questions are important :)
09:30<jkc>"skills"
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09:30<user_>I already sleep with the debian handbook under my pillow. sorry for not been precise. but i get quite lost sometimes reading it and so i thought of a, say structured training. further, i wonder if i could move more into programming (debian?), but up to now, i have no idea were, how and if I start this.
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09:31<jkc>Programming is a totally different discipline. So, let me ask this: Is this request driven by a particular desire or project, or just in a general sense?
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09:31<bentham>Training sounds like the sort of thing that a school or university might do.
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09:32<bentham>(or, indeed, a library)
09:32<Oyoxo>helo all
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09:34<Oyoxo>anyone else having trouble installing debian 11 ? https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=149974 (stuck during package download...)
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09:35<user_>actually i was extremely impressed of debian and the community and all that opensource thinking that i wondered if maybe one day i could contribute as well, maybe even with programming. but for now i am trying to learn as much as possible and i want to increase :)
09:35<Oyoxo>stay on it
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09:38<trench>Oyoxo: network card problems?
09:38<trench>Oyoxo: it can't resolv security.debian.org
09:38<Oyoxo>nope, definately not, tested on 3x different hardware (2x laptop t440, x60 and 1x SuperMicro server) in all cases: connectivity loss after few hundred packages
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09:39<trench>tried a diffrent mirror?
09:39<trench>or a diffrent connection?
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09:40<Oyoxo>it is like something during setup... changes (firmware for nic or firewall changes?) and then: connection loss
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09:40<Oyoxo>tried different mirror
09:41<Oyoxo>yes can try different uplink (non-starlink)
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09:43<bentham>user_: That's great! I wish I could be more helpful. But I bet there are people in your network who can offer clarity on what you can do starting from the place you're starting.
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09:44<bentham>In the meantime, feel free to stay here and watch... it might give you ideas also.
09:44<jkc>Ooh, Starlink.
09:45<Oyoxo>yes starlink, is the only provider that "can be bothered" to provide fast internet... if the user does not want to invest $1000 into their own uplink X-D (just the cables)
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09:45<jkc>Oyoxo: Gonna PM you in a sec.
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09:53<Oyoxo>only starlink problem: privacy... as #Starlink(#SpaceX aka #Elon) partner closely with #Google https://www.androidcentral.com/spacex-starlink-using-space-laser-help-improve-its-internet-service https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09/alphabets-laser-internet-system-has-sent-700tb-of-data-with-99-9-uptime/
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10:03<trench>Oyoxo: tried to disable ipv6?
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10:04<trench>Oyoxo: or changed your dns servers?
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10:07<trench>Oyoxo: make a local mirror? :P
10:07<Oyoxo>the point is: connectivity is available during debian 11 (free https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/) setup, but is then "dropped"...
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10:07<trench>downloading isos via wget from just works fine
10:07<Oyoxo>X-D yeah should do that actually X-D
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10:08<Oyoxo>@trench: yes
10:08<trench>you could download iso's or dvd/blurays with jigdo and mount them too
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10:09<trench>I normally do that when I have to update a bunch of servers
10:09<trench>I also have a local nfs mount for /var/cache/archives :)
10:10<Oyoxo>so first off: thanks for the time... will stay on it X-D (never ever give up X-D)
10:10<trench>I mean /var/cache/apt/archives I mean
10:10<trench>Oyoxo: this is how you learn :P
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10:45<istrive>hellow world! Good day to everyone...
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10:45<expl0it>Thx
10:47<istrive>I just upgraded the debian 10 to 11, the process went fairly well except the MySQL is not starting anymore, getting ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
10:48<istrive>if I try systemctl status MySQL it says unit mysql.service could not be found!
10:48<istrive>any ideas?
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10:51<sussudio>!any ideas
10:51<dpkg>Yeah, I have an idea! But I'll need a box full of ground beef, a little K-Y jelly, and 5 or 6 sex-crazed badgers. And keep the NSA off my back for the next few hours!
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10:59<istrive>very funny, yet has 0 relevance to the point... ;)
11:01<abrotman>istrive: is it running? when you try to start it, what does the daemon log show is the issue? Did it change from mysql to mariadb?
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11:17<trap>Anyone got an alternative to mergerfs? I have two disks of 1TB capacity, and I want to merge/combine them into one directory so it has 2TB capacity. This is for my media server. mergerfs works fine without anything, but since I am using MinIO S3 file server for object storage, when launching it it throws an error saying it doesn't support that type of filesystem (sub filesystem).
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11:18<ansgar>trap: Can't ZFS and btrfs handle such things?
11:19<trap>I think so. But mergerfs seemed fairly simple to use. What else would be fairly simple to use in your opinion?
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11:20<cc>lvm can do approximately that
11:20<Oyoxo>@trap: sounds like the case for lvm2 ... but no experience with MinIO
11:21<ansgar>trap: `btrfs device add /dev/sdb /mnt` (from man:btrfs-device(8)) looks simple to use.
11:21<trap>I don't think you need experience with MinIO either. It's just a binary you run that acts like a S3 storage server, supporting their API as well.
11:21<Oyoxo>screwed up another filesystem with dd X-D: never make usb sticks on production machines! X-D (luckily it was backup data)
11:21<trap>Get what I mean tho? I basically wanna combine two disks into one directory so I have all the space I need for my media.
11:22<trap>But yeah I'll look into btrfs.
11:22<trap>Thanks for it man!
11:23<jmcnaught>trap: mdadm RAID-0 (at the block level) could also be an option
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11:23<Oyoxo>now testing with wget https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-11.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=149974
11:24<Oyoxo>as virtualbox vm
11:25<trap>That makes sense. If I add more disks later to my server tho, I would need a way to expand it. That's exactly why I used mergerfs.
11:27<jmcnaught>trap: LVM makes the most sense to me, you can easily add new physical volumes to the volume group, extend existing logical volumes with the new capacity, and then grow their filesystems
11:27<Oyoxo>question: instead of going through setup... what worked pretty well quiet often: just dd an already working installation to a harddisk, and put it into target machine... dada. another GNU Linux Debian machine up and running.
11:27<Oyoxo>damn now it works!? WHY? WHY?
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11:28<jmcnaught>trap: something to keep in mind however is that when you use two drive to make a larger combined drive, if one fails you can lose everything.
11:28<Oyoxo>yep... the case for RAID10
11:29<Oyoxo>mdadm can combine partitions and "raw" (unpartitioned) harddisks to raid1, raid0, raid10... what have you
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11:29<trap>jmcnaught: can you help me get them merged with LVM? I haven't used it before, and it's only two disks. One disk is where my OS is installed and another is unused and free. Also, the data is not really that important. But the amount of storage I have access to is. It wouldn't be a big loss if I lost everything.
11:30<ansgar>jmcnaught: That is an argument against lvm and raid, and for filesystems aware that they use multiple block devices.
11:30<cc>the benefit of these various union mount filesystems is that you can unmount them and keep using the disks separately
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11:30<cc>and when one disk dies you only use the data that was on that one disk
11:30<Oyoxo>guess the user does backups anyway
11:32<Urk>I get this strange character at the end of my line after going to root? Any idea how to get rid of it? And what it means? It showed up after running the cat command on an Nvidia log, and now displays as root@grand-conjunction:/home/pd£
11:32<Oyoxo>clear; reset;
11:32<somiaj>logout/backin
11:32<Urk>A forward slash should be in its place.
11:33<somiaj>sometimes files have escape sequences when you cat them chagining things in the current shell, you could also just close the terminal and load a new one
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11:33<Urk>Oyoxo: I ran clear, but not sure what you want me to do to reset.
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11:33<ansgar>Urk: `reset` is a program
11:34<Urk>ok. Problem is gone.
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11:38<Oyoxo>did reset do it? X-D
11:38<Oyoxo>(just happy that it worked)
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11:46<johnjay>does anyone know how to turn gdm off? i got a bunch of different google results
11:46<johnjay>i did systemctl stop gdm.service
11:46<johnjay>but vterm 1 is blank
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11:52<Urk>Nvidia's GPU driver is a big mess, and so is there website. A decision has been made to get rid of the driver completely. Its performance is a bit faster than Noveau, but its a lot more buggy, and I now get kernel errors. I would like to remove it completely, and will do a backup first of key data.
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12:00<somiaj>are you installing the upstream nvidia driver in debian, don't do that
12:00<somiaj>nvidia's driver works just fine for me here
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12:03<somiaj>!nvidia installer
12:03<dpkg>it has been said that nvidia-installer is a clever cross-platform way of installing nvidia's proprietary drivers, which works fine on systems with stupid package managers (i.e. not so good with Debian). More specifically, prone to dying if any X or kernel-related packages are upgraded or removed. Ask me about <nvidia-graphics-drivers> instead. See also <why nvidia-installer sucks>, <remove nvidia-installer>.
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12:42<Oyoxo>@dpkg: https://dwaves.de/2021/05/16/the-fight-for-the-right-to-repair-and-diagnose-your-own-tech-hardware-from-pc-hardware-to-cars-to-tractors-reason-vs-profit-monopoly-madness/
12:42<Oyoxo>including: "Linus famous NVIDIA F*** YOU!" X-D (will it ever change?)
12:43<Oyoxo>logoff
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12:49<sussudio>like ati were any better...
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13:17<sussudio>A|an: google "alan" and then click on the youtube result with the prairie dog.
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13:59<Urk>Got a strange problem. I created a Bullseye live installation disk using dd, but can't get my laptop to boot from it. I shut off the primary boot "Debian" in the bios before attempting to boot, and all I get is a memory check. Any ideas what might be going on?
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14:00<Urk>Everything seems ok when running lsusb, and I don't find anything unusual when running dmesg | grep -i USB
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14:07<Sqrt{not}>Urk, you should not need to modify the BIOS to boot your bullseye live disk. what exactly did you do in the bios? can you change it back and try again?
14:08<aloo_shu>Urk: what did you dd *to* ? say /dev/sdb was your pendrive, the you will find /dev/sdb and /dev/sdb1 , where one is the pendrive root, and the other, that always existing first partition. you need to dd to the pendrive _root_, that's one possibility
14:08<somiaj>Though you often have to hit some boot menu key to be able to select to boot from a device other than the default one
14:09<aloo_shu>another one, you might to have to enable usb boot specifically, and might even have several options, like usb mass storage, usb optical disk..
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14:10<Urk>Sqrt{not}: I have to deselect "Debian" in the bios or the USB will not boot. However, the USB is not being detected in the bios which suggest some other problem.
14:11<Urk>Sqrt{not}: However, when reviewing the files in the USB after bootup, everything appears to be there
14:11<Sqrt{not}>Urk, so it will not boot the USB if debian is selected, and it will not boot the USB if debian is not selected?
14:12<aloo_shu>Urk: reviewing, how
14:13<Urk>aloo_shu: I formated and erased a Debian 10.9 installation on the USB, created two partitions, made sure they both had ext4, and burned the Debian.iso with dd to the /dev/sda1.
14:13<aloo_shu>^^
14:13<Urk>Sqrt{not}: That is correct. Additionally the USB is not detected in the bios but it should be.
14:13<Sqrt{not}>urk, that copy procedure is WRONG
14:14<Urk>Sqrt{not}: What is wrong with my procedure?
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14:14<another>sda1
14:14<Urk>It should still be detected in the bios.
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14:14<Urk>another: what about sda1? It is one of two partitions on my USB. I have a 256 gb USB.
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14:15<Sqrt{not}>Urk, you must copy the image to the base of the USB, not to a partition. i.e. to /dev/sda not /dev/sda1
14:15<another>the iso is made to be copied on a device
14:15<another>it contains partition tables and everything
14:16<sney>if you want to have multiple things on the usb, you can use ventoy instead
14:16<aloo_shu>Urk: if you 'burn' from an iso9960 image, you dd/copy it directly to the root. I assume it's /dev/sda, because your internal disk is /dev/nvme.. something? with older disks, /dev/sda is the internal one normally, but could be usb id that doesn't exist
14:16<Urk>another: Its all there when opening it up on my desktop, but the USB isn't detected at all in memory. Historically this USB was detected when I had 10.9 burned to it.
14:16<another>sanity tip: use /dev/disk/by-id/...
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14:17<Sqrt{not}>Urk, feel free to ignore our advice, but we are right, we have done this many times before
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14:17<Urk>aloo_shu: My usb is /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 My internal drive is /dev/nvme*
14:17<sney>maybe you managed to write it correctly when you had 10.9. at least, after coming here and having us tell you the same thing
14:17<aloo_shu>Urk: if you want partitions on the drive, eg for live+persistence, you have to do some tricks _after_ putting the iso image onto the stick
14:17<Urk>aloo_shu: What trick?
14:18<another>tricks, plural
14:18<Urk>&?
14:18<sney>step 1) pay attention to what everyone is saying, not just the 10% of words that you like
14:18<another>changing the partition table, creating a separate partion, etc.
14:18<Urk>another: What about changing the partition table, and creating a separate partition?
14:19<another>sney: "everyone is saying [...] you like"
14:19<sarnold>another: lol
14:19<aloo_shu>hand-editing the partition table after iso is flashed, creating a 2nd partotion, calculating the right offset by the iso size + a little margin just in case
14:19<aloo_shu>some distros have a tool/script for it, but I don't know in debian
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14:20<sney>you guys must really want him to come back in an hour with even less understanding
14:20<Urk>Regardless of what I have done, the USB isn't being detected in the bios, and this laptop does require shutting off the boot device to allow another boot option to operate.
14:20<another>sounds like an unusual bios
14:20<Urk>aloo_shu: This time I used gparted, but usually I use fdisk or something like that.
14:20<aloo_shu>you could just edit the end of the iso9660 partition, then the rest will become 'unusused' available space again in gparted.
14:21<Sqrt{not}>Urk, if you try what we are saying, maybe the bios might detect your usb, who knows, there is some tiny chance we might be right, no?
14:21<Urk>another: Not that unusual. Most of the bioses I have seen require you to shut off your primary boot partition in order to let another boot option.
14:21<aloo_shu>unused*
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14:21<Urk>Sqrt{not}: What do you recommend?
14:21<another>errr... wat? What kind of BIOSes are you working with
14:22<Sqrt{not}>sudo cp some.disk.file.iso /dev/sda
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14:22<aloo_shu>^^
14:22<aloo_shu>you'll need to do that, in any case
14:22<another>sudo cp debian.iso /dev/disk/by-id/usb...
14:23<another>using the symlink in /dev/disk/by-id/ helps with accidentally using the wrong disk
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14:23<Sqrt{not}>another, please explain to them how to find that now
14:24<another>what do you mean? tab completion?
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14:24<Sqrt{not}>"the perfect is the enemy of the good"
14:25<Urk>another: bios is http://paste.debian.net/1213007/
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14:26<Sqrt{not}>Urk, I think most Dell bios allow you to hit F12 key during boot, and it will give you a menu of bootable devices.
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14:26<Urk>That is what came up when I ran sudo dmidecode -t bios -q
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14:26<Urk>Sqrt{not}: I will try that again, but usually I pull up the boot menu with F2.
14:27<Urk>Standby while I reboot
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14:27<another>"Selectable boot is supported" <-- does this mean what I think it means?
14:28<Sqrt{not}>they left. another: it is hard enough to get this one to concentrate on even one thing. confusing them with many things makes it hopeless
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14:29<another>Sqrt{not}: I know the type.
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14:33<Urk>I am back. F12 takes me to the same screen as F2, but requires one more step is all. USB is still not being detected in the bios which raises some other issues. There are a couple of "red" FAILED error messages on here from last night, and I am wondering if any of these are a factor such as the broken atomic user set (see bottom of the following paste http://paste.debian.net/1212930/, and the issue with the serial mouse on the same page, and also at
14:33<Urk>the bottom of this paste.
14:33<aloo_shu>you might know more about your bios now, but you probably still haven't repeated the dd/cp process, this time, the right way. there's no 'repair' for that, and there's no room for doubt - iso on /dev/sda1 _cannot_ work
14:35<Urk>aloo_shu: i am going to try to boot the USB on another laptop that has a grub issue. If it boots on that then it should boot on mine. I am skeptical anything is wrong with the boot stick I created.
14:35<aloo_shu>ok, convince yourself, then
14:36<another>you can be skeptical if you want. doesn't change the facts
14:37<aloo_shu>no, but it makes you know the facts. because you test
14:37<another>fair enough.
14:38<aloo_shu>before, you have to take them on good faith
14:40<Urk>Ok, I can't get the USB to boot on my HP Paviliation dv4000 which is an ancient beast. However, the USB is detected in the bios. error message says error: symbol "grub_calloc' not found. Entering rescue mode grub rescue>
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14:40<Sqrt{not}>Urk, see this official debian instruction: https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
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14:41<aloo_shu>if you are getting to grub, it means the usb stick got skipped as not bootable, grub is on your main disk, and repairing it, will be a different task. one you can do onec you got a working live stick, by the way
14:42<aloo_shu>s/onec/once/
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14:42<Urk>What happens if you don't run the sync command?
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14:42<aloo_shu>so it's pretty clear what you want to do first, now
14:42<alexandro>How to MOVE files or folders via SSH?
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14:42<sarnold>grub_calloc not found comes from having mismatched grub and grub modules, probably a result of incorrect debconf grub configuration
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14:43<aloo_shu>no sync: in the best case, nothing, in the worst case, it boots, but turns out to be corrupted
14:43<another>alexandro: Do you mean on a remote machine or from a remote to a local machine?
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14:44<alexandro>of local to remote
14:44<towo`>if Urk has really written the iso to a partition on the usb, all discussions are obsolete, that will never work
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14:45<Urk>towo: What is wrong with writing the ISO to a partition? It worked with the last installation?
14:45<towo`>and if he want to not waste the whole 256 GB for a little iso, he should use ventoy
14:45<another>towo`: well, technically it could. But I don't know of any BIOS that implements that
14:45<aloo_shu>if you power off regularly, or eject pendrive regularly, sync will happen as a side effect, but running sync explixitly, is making sure that all data rests in buffers are written, in that very moment
14:45<towo`>another: sure it could, but mostly it doesn't work
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14:46<somiaj>Urk: writing debian isos to a partition vs the full disk hasn't ever worked right, debian's iso have always provided a full partition table
14:46<towo`>Urk: id you know all better, why you are here?
14:47<Urk>aloo_shu: The command I used, after going to the location on my drive where the software is, was sudo dd if=debian-live-11.0.0amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso of=/dev/sda1 bs=124k status=progress; sync If I had to do it again I would have set bs=4M
14:47<towo`>Urk: you don't want wasting 256 GB, use ventoy
14:47<Sqrt{not}>Urk, just __TRY__ the official instruction, who knows, it might work
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14:48<aloo_shu>Urk: one way to describe the dufferencve, with an iso at the root, the bios sees an iso9660 *medium*, exactly like a cd or dvd. with an iso on a partition, it sees a usb mass storage device with an iso *image*
14:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 999] by debhelper
14:48<sarnold>Sqrt{not}: that's such a crazy idea, it just might work!
14:48<aloo_shu>*diff
14:48<Urk>Not familiar with ventoy. I am going to reboot again, and see if the USB is detected, but suspect something else is going on here.
14:48<Sqrt{not}>Urk, if you have to do it again, s/sda1/sda/
14:48<towo`>Urk: simply stop writing iso to the partition
14:48<towo`>Urk: easy that is!
14:48<Urk>Huh?
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14:49<mx>hi
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14:49<somiaj>You should really follow the install instructions and the advice here. Since you are here for support, support works best if the suggestions we give you are actually used.
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14:51<alexandro>I need to keep a change data.
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14:51<Sqrt{not}>alexandro, you probably want to use sftp
14:52<alexandro>* date.
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14:55<aloo_shu>Urk: booting from an iso9660 *medium* is a standard, and guaranteed to work. booting from an iso9660 *image* located on a partition, is not, even if it is technically possible
14:55<Urk>I have again tried to boot from the USB device, and it will not boot. Additionally it isn't detected at all in the bios which suggest something else is wrong.
14:55<Sqrt{not}>Urk, here's a crazy idea: try our advice how to write the USB correctly
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14:56<Urk>aloo_shu: the USB device has an image that was burned on it that didn't have any errors. So at this point I think something else is going on. You may recall there are some problems with the kernel that cropped up after installing the Nvidia drivers, and replacing Noveau.
14:57<Sqrt{not}>Urk, partition one of the USB device has your image. that is not the same
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14:57<Urk>Sqrt{yes}: What do you mean by advice? Get rid of the partitions? Even if that was the problem the USB is not detected in the bios so something else is wrong.
14:57-!-iiriix [~iiriix@iiriix.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: $ exec exit 1]
14:57<aloo_shu>or think about this: who suggests, and why, and who needs to respond to the suggestions
14:57<aloo_shu>I'm not having any reason to look into your suggestions
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14:57<aloo_shu>they could be many
14:57<Sqrt{not}>Urk, or you could argue for another 3 hours, and not fix the problem
14:58<Urk>Sqrt{not}: I am not sure what you want me to do.
14:58<Sqrt{not}>https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
14:58<towo`>do the dd/cp right
14:58<another>towo`: having looked at the building instructions for ventoy does not build confidence... jeebus christ
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14:59<towo`>another: i allways use the binarys, never tryed to build that thing myself
14:59<Urk>Sqrt{not}: I have already burned the device, and did follow the guidelines listed in the Debian faq, and other places.
14:59<Sqrt{not}>Urk, good! what exact command did you use to burn the device?
15:00<aloo_shu>if it's not bootable, the bios doesn't need to 'detect' your usb device, what does it care about your movie collection? and the way you've formatted your stick, it looks like a movie collection. writing the iso to the root, will actually *format* it differently, in the act - an iso image contains_ it's own format, it is not meant to be a guest of other formats, except for storage
15:00<aloo_shu>etc., but not in use
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15:01<Urk>sudo dd if=debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso of=/dev/sda1 bs=4M status=progress; sync
15:01<towo`>again wrong
15:01<jkc>cp file.iso /dev/sda
15:01<Sqrt{not}>Urk, I give up on you. I will not answer any more questions
15:01<jkc>Assuming sda is the USB in question.
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15:02<Urk>Instructions on the Debian Wiki do indicate dd as well as cp. There is no difference.
15:02<aloo_shu>ok, repeat, with /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1
15:02<Urk>aloo_shu: will do. Give me a few minutes.
15:02<jkc>You can't even write an image correctly, I don't think you're in a position to speak authoritatively on the differences or similarities between cp and dd. Use cp.
15:03<another>towo`: if the build instructions are that horrible, I wouldn't trust the binaries
15:03<aloo_shu>halleluja!
15:03<Urk>jkc: thats like saying you should eat Italian plums instead of red ones.
15:03<jlkjlk>hahaahah jkc is mad
15:03<jkc>Urk: It's like saying you should read and follow simple instructions instead of arguing and showing your ass in front of a room full of much more competent people.
15:03<jlkjlk>Urk: you should eat Italian plums instead of red ones
15:04<jkc>jlkjlk: Also that, yes.
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15:04<ansgar>jkc: No no no, we might have gotten to the place where sda instead of sda1 is used. Do not risk losing it all by asking for further changes.
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15:05<Urk>Ok partitions deleted, and a new ext4 partition created for the entire drive.
15:05<jkc>ansgar: Would "further changes" include activating the "reading comprehension" centers of the brain?
15:05<jkc>If so, then I'll just be an audience member.
15:06<aloo_shu>Urk: I mean, do a quick check the drive has become /dev/sda again, but basically replace sd[letter]1 with sd[letter], all else was correct
15:06<towo`>Urk: you do not need to create anything
15:06<sney>jkc: this one is a repeat offender, I agree with the approach to introduce as little new information as possible, because he can barely hold 1 concept at a time
15:06<ansgar>Urk: Now `sudo cp debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso /dev/sda; sync`
15:06<sney>but also I'm not participating in the circus anymore ;)
15:07<Urk>ansgar: ok, dd is done.
15:07<jkc>sney: I kinda got that impression, yeah.
15:07*jkc grabs popcorn.
15:09*another steals popcorn from jkc
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15:09*jkc shares, true to the foss spirit.
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15:09<aloo_shu>you do not need, just dd'ing the iso, takes care of the formatting in the act. That's because 'flashing', 'burning', are in fact misnomers of what is happening, the 'formatting' is basically writing 'this device is a *, and contains *', right to it's beginning, _before_ any partition. that's why writing to the root, will write the needed
15:09<aloo_shu>format info, too, writing to a partion, won't
15:09<ansgar>The moment of truth has come!
15:09<Sqrt{not}>(they left)
15:09<jkc>Sqrt{not}: Is that... is that a win?
15:09<aloo_shu>oh wait
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15:10<Sqrt{not}>maybe? time will tell
15:10<sarnold>for a month or so I was trying to decide if urk was a troll or not.. the a few days? week? ago, he seemed pretty good about answering questions, following advice, etc..
15:10<sarnold>the last few days I'm back on the 'is he a troll?' theory..
15:10<aloo_shu>you do not need, just dd'ing the iso, takes care of the formatting in the act. That's because 'flashing', 'burning', are in fact misnomers of what is happening, the 'formatting' is basically writing 'this device is a xxxxx, and contains yyyyy', right to it's beginning, _before_ any partition. that's why writing to the root, will write the needed format info, too, writing to a
15:10<aloo_shu>partion, won't
15:11<jkc>aloo_shu: You're shouting into the aether my friend. He gone.
15:11<Sqrt{not}>(they left)
15:11<another>aloo_shu: save your breath
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15:11<aloo_shu>ah ok
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15:12<Urk>System still won't boot from USB. I am going to try to boot to my Debian 10.9 USB which is a different USB device.
15:13<jkc>Such a helpful error message you've provided, it'll really help us get to the bottom of the problem.
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15:13*jkc passes popcorn around.
15:13<aloo_shu>well.. preach with the example
15:14<Sqrt{not}>I bet he used sda1 again.
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15:14<aloo_shu>I'm not making asumptions
15:14<aloo_shu>not even with 2 's'
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15:14<jkc>Is it an assumption if he's already done it?
15:14<aloo_shu>yes
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15:15<udet>hey all, is there a developer channel I can ask a library development and packaging specific question?
15:16<Urk>Ok, I tried the other memory stick and it is detected so I didn't go any further than that. Since my Bullseye memory stick is not detected, I am going to assume something is wrong with the memory stick, or a compatibility issue. Not sure what, but I don't think the problem is my installation of Debian 11.0 on the device.
15:17<jkc>Exactly what command did you enter to write the image to the usb?
15:17<sarnold>udet: there's a #packaging that might work
15:17<udet>sarnold, that debian packaging related?
15:17<Urk>The USB that I tried to use is a Patriot BiT+, 256GB, USB 3.2 Gen 1.
15:18<sarnold>udet: yes
15:18<udet>sarnold, thx
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15:18<sarnold>udet: if the goal is to get the package into debian, or it's already in debian, then #debian-mentors is probably the better choice, but if it's a debian package that isn't intended to get into debian, that's #packaging :) it's probably 99% same people in both..
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15:19<jkc>Urk: That's not at all what was asked. What command did you use? Exactly.
15:19<aloo_shu>Urk: you are giving answers relevant to your assumption, not to the question asked
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15:20<Urk>jkc: Do you mean for the burning to the USB?
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15:21<jkc>"to write the image to the usb"
15:21<jkc>Obviously, yes.
15:21<Urk>sudo dd if=debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso of=/dev/sda1 bs=4M status=progress; sync
15:21<jkc>Sqrt{not}: You win.
15:21<jkc>Urk: You keep using sda1. WHY?
15:21<towo`>how dumb one can be?
15:21<Urk>jkc: There is nothing wrong with my command. I don't think that is the problem. I think something is wrong with the USB, and I am filing a warranty claim with Patriot.
15:22<ansgar>Urk: Use `sudo cp debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso /dev/sda; sync`
15:22<jkc>Urk: There is absolutely a problem with your command, what you think is irrelevant.
15:22<ansgar>Urk: Your command is wrong.
15:22<jkc>Urk: sda. Not sda1. sda.
15:22<Urk>jkc: I have only one partition on the memory stick and it will only show up as sda1.
15:22<aloo_shu>yep, Sqrt{not} wins
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15:22<Urk>jkc: It won't format that way. If there were two partitions then it woud be sda1 and sda2.
15:22<jkc>Urk: You're not writing to a partition at all. You're writing to the device. sda. Not sda1. Run EXACTLY this: sudo cp debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso /dev/sda ; sync
15:23<jkc>Urk: YOu don't format anything. Follow instructions or get out. This is absurd.
15:23<instabin>LOL
15:23<towo`>i think, we can stop that now
15:23<Urk>jkc: Tell that to Gparted and fdisk. They don't agree with you.
15:23<towo`>he knows all better
15:23<jkc>Urk: None of those utilities have anything to do with what you're doing now.
15:23<aloo_shu>yep
15:23<jkc>cp debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso /dev/sda ; sync
15:23<jkc>Urk: Until you do PRECISELY that, there's nothing else to support here.
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15:25<instabin>Urk: Also make sure the usb us unmounted before runing the cp myfile.iso /deb/sda; sync
15:25<sarnold>instabin: don't confuse things :)
15:26<jkc>Urk: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.en.html#usb-copy-isohybrid
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15:26<Urk>instabin: It was unmounted before writing to the device.
15:26<jkc>Urk: The image must be written to the whole-disk device and not a partition, e.g. /dev/sdb and not /dev/sdb1.
15:26<jkc>Urk: It even tells you how wrong you are in black and white in the documentation.
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15:26<Urk>jkc: The image was written to the whole device, and no positive effect was noticed in the bios. The device should be detected in the bios whether there is anything on the image or not.
15:26<towo`>you can ssy that thousend times again, Urk will not believe it
15:26<jkc>Urk: You said 'sda1.'
15:26<jkc>Urk: That is not the whole device.
15:27<jkc>The manual specifically says 'NOT sdx1'
15:27<towo`>Urk: sda1 = partition, sda = device
15:27<Urk>regardless, the device is not detected in the bios. This is either a defective USB, or there is a compatibility issue.
15:27<towo`>Urk: stop writing nonsense
15:27<jkc>Urk: The device isn't detected in the bios because you're writing the image wrong.
15:27<Urk>The device doesn't need anything to be written on it at all in order to be detected.
15:27<towo`>so?
15:27<Urk>Blank devices should be detected in the bios.
15:27<towo`>no
15:27<jkc>No, they shouldn't.
15:27<instabin>computer says its a U53R Error
15:28<towo`>not as bootable devices
15:28<another>lol
15:28<jkc>Urk: You've been given the same answer countably infinite times by an only slightly less numerous number of people. You are the problem.
15:28<towo`>but i think, it's useless to say anything fourther, Urk seems to be the master of the whole hardware world and looks like the biggest pc specialst
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15:29<Urk>jkc: My mother disagrees with you. ; )
15:29<another>Urk: At this point you have been given advice multiple times. You are still refusing to follow it. I have to assume you are trolling. Goodbye!
15:29<aloo_shu>Urk: I'm having a personal question
15:29<aloo_shu>20:02:20[BST] <aloo_shu> ok, repeat, with /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1
15:29<aloo_shu>20:02:35[BST] <Urk> aloo_shu: will do. Give me a few minutes.
15:29<jmcnaught>Urk: I was there helping you install Debian 10 back in February, and you had the same problem for the same reason, and had to be argued into copying the ISO to device not partition which finally worked.
15:29<jkc>Urk: Irrelevant.
15:29<istrive>hello all!
15:29<jkc>Urk: On a personal note, I wouldn't subject your mother to the disgrace of having birthed you by advertising it in public spaces.
15:29<babilen>jmcnaught: heh, logs ftw!
15:29<instabin>computer says its a U53R Error combined with the ID-10T Error
15:29<jkc>!plonk
15:29<dpkg>well, plonk is the sound that a name makes when hitting the ignore list or or killfile. Plonk is British and Canadian slang for cheap wine. "Rodney, you plonker."
15:30<aloo_shu>why are you telling me 'will do', when you don't?
15:30<Urk>jmcnaught: Debian is installed on just one partition. The installation is not the problem. I have another Patriot Memory stick along side me, and it is detected fine. In fact, it was used to install my current oS, but it does have two partitions.
15:30<babilen>Lets please keep family and personal arguments out of this. I think the technical solution is fairly straightforward and has been proven to work previously
15:30<Urk>jmcnaught: The problem is the memory stick used to burn Debian 11.0 is not detected in the bios.
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15:30<aloo_shu>Urk: ANSWER!
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15:31<sarnold>honestly, at this point I think we'd all be happier if we invited Urk to find tech support elsewhere.
15:31<jmcnaught>Urk: did you know that you can partition the USB device *after* you have copied the Debian ISO to it? There is *NO* need to partition the USB device before copying. Always copy Debian ISO images directly to the device (/dev/sda) not a partition (/dev/sda1)
15:31<aloo_shu>Urk: I'm having a personal question
15:31<aloo_shu>20:02:20[BST] <aloo_shu> ok, repeat, with /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1
15:31<aloo_shu>20:02:35[BST] <Urk> aloo_shu: will do. Give me a few minutes.
15:31<aloo_shu>why are you telling me 'will do', when you don't?
15:31-!-aloo_shu was kicked from #debian by debchange [flood detected]
15:31<instabin>You can find some support in the #windows or #microsoft channel
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15:32<istrive>after bullseye upgrade my service for virtualbox that was running fine in buster wont start at boot, if started manually from systemctl when loggin off the session it terminates automatically... What changed in the system services that could cause such behavior?
15:32<another>aloo_shu: They are not responding to advice or reason. Save your breath.
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15:33<instabin>He needs some 1990s linux tech support
15:33<aloo_shu>another: they are in good company in that regard
15:33<instabin>IRC rooms where not as friendly as they are today
15:34<jmcnaught>istrive: there are probably logs for the virtualbox service in journalctl but as virtualbox is not included in Debian we might not be able to help much here.
15:34<Sqrt{not}>I think the technical term for what is needed is "LART"
15:36<aloo_shu>Urk: I still want to know from you why you told me 'will do', when you went ahead and did the opposite
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15:37<instabin>aloo_shu: Its becasue he wants to be told he is right. He dosent want to hear your logic and why it would actually work.
15:37<aloo_shu>instabin: are you Urk
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15:38<instabin>aloo_shu: nope
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15:38<Urk>aloo_shu: Please don't use my name in vain. And for the record, urk is registered so instabin can't use it.
15:39<Urk>I have had the same handle, and backup handle for a very long time.
15:39<babilen>Lets move on
15:39<aloo_shu>Urk: because you can do and not do what you want, and can seek support from who you want, and then disregard it, it's their initiative to talk to you, after all, but this 'will do' statement was your initiative, your word, and that's the exact moment when you have crossed the line to harrassment, if you cannot give a good answer
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15:40<aloo_shu>babilen: let's not. support is lifetime
15:41<Urk>aloo_shu: You sound pretty hostile. And with respect doing what I want, I followed all of the instructions in both the Debian faq, as well as what was mentioned in this channel, including using just one partition. AS mentioned earlier, the device isn't detected in the bios so I believe there is something wrong with the device, or a compatibility issue.
15:41<sarnold>I'm inclined to just +q Urk!*@* and move on. other folks need help too, and most of them will read what we write
15:41<Urk>I have filed an RMA with Patriot.
15:42<sussudio>urk was temp banned from 2 networks a few days ago.
15:42<sarnold>not a surprise
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15:43<Urk>Your commments should be taken to #debian-offtopic
15:43<Urk>Its a better channel for slander
15:43<ansgar>sarnold++
15:43<aloo_shu>you have not followed my instruction. what's more, you have told me you would. I;m not your plaything, and I want you out now. simple as that
15:43<sussudio>bye Urk.
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15:43-!-mode/#debian [+q Urk!*@*] by sarnold
15:44<aloo_shu>no. out
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15:45<sarnold>perhaps I'm too much a softie -- I'd rather let someone be able to stick around and learn, even if it feels hopeless..
15:48<aloo_shu>practically, either q or b, how long will it be there before somebody's bot removes it?
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15:53<sarnold>that's an excellent question -- I think debchange will undo it, I asked for two days. I don't know if debchange will listen to me or not :)
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15:58<aloo_shu>my case is, this is where harrasment begins, and staying out of assumptions and value judgements has allowed me to isolate this instance. In that logic, I don't want that to repeat, also not in 24h. whatever serves that purpose. q or b don't make a difference in that regard, no q would allow a defense or apology, but given there's nobody empowered to pass sentence, there is no case
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16:02<another>huh. grepping through logs they pulled the same 5 months ago on freenode
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16:03<aloo_shu>before we collect evidence, can we find out if there's a court?
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16:07<Sqrt{not}>aloo_shu, let it go. There's no court, and they punish themself.
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16:09<aigleroy88>do you know a good chatRoom for networking
16:10<aigleroy88>networking on debian of course
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16:11<jkc>Networking in what sense?
16:12<aloo_shu>apart from evaluating that user, another problem is how we're falling into each other's support convos. Personally, I have to acknowledge Sqrt{not} was first on the request, my personal justification was that I was following a different assumption that it made sense to rule out at least, what is everybody else's?
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16:13<sarnold>it's hard to say for sure what's best; sometimes I think I've got an insight into a problem that's worth interjecting
16:13<sarnold>sometimes it's better to let someone else's guesses run their course before chipping in
16:14<sarnold>and sometimes whoever is helping is distracted and would welcome some extra help. sometimes I'll make suggestions to whoever is doing the 'lead' helping in another channel, so it won't clutter things up in the main channel
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16:25<aloo_shu>I think I'm pretty detached, but what's pointing to the need to not underestimate the erosive effect of this type of situation, is that several convo participants switched from support to speculation about the supportworthiness of the person asking the question. that's not a good climate. and you can't reduce the phenomenon to a single actor, it's a dynamic
16:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 993] by debhelper
16:28<Sqrt{not}>aigleroy88, you could start by asking a networking question right here, if it is about debian networking.
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16:31<aigleroy88>Sqrt{not}: i have to laptop connected with ethernet cable , and the one of them is debian has intenet with Tor Brige and i want to share internet with the seconde one
16:31<aigleroy88>to =two
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16:36<sney>aigleroy88: well, you would need to enable ip forwarding on the machine with 2 connections, and set up routes between them. if you google 'linux router howto' there are a lot of articles, pick one that's recent
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16:38<aigleroy88>sney: igggle linux router howto but it doesnot wok because i want the seconde laptop to use the same brige
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16:42<aigleroy88>sney: i will verify on youtube
16:42<sney>it does work, you just need to understand what you're doing - the laptop whose connection you want to share will be the "router", and the other laptop will need to use the first laptop as a gateway.
16:42<aloo_shu>if all connections are showing (the tor bridge and the laptop-to-laptop connection on the main, and the laptop to laptop on the secondary) in the repective network managers, then editing the properties of the connections might be enough, that would be with click/context click on the network tray icon
16:43-!-b_ is "b" on #openttd
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16:44<sney>ah yes, I guess n-m has some basic functionality for this as well, that may be more straightforward
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16:49<aloo_shu>well straigtforward is an euphemism, but I'm usually able to grope my way
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16:52<herbert>good evening - I updated from buster -> bullseye, faced problem within logout from KDE (Plasma), so i made a fresh install, but problem remained: curious behavior if I logout -> logout time is about 5-10 sec before new login appears
16:53<aloo_shu>aigleroy88: on the secondary laptop, there should be only 1 'wired connection' now, if you are trying to look at it's properties, what does it say for IP address and gateway?
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17:05<alexandro>how to block CTRL + F1 ... F6 sessions in debian?
17:06<sarnold>alexandro: DontVTSwitch in xorg.conf
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17:07<aigleroy88>aloo_shu: i give the gateway address the ip address of first one
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17:12<alexandro>Restart X server with CTRL+ALT+BackSpace prompts for password?
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17:15<website>hi
17:15<website>anyone here
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17:15<website>got a fk'd up pkg problem
17:15<website>The following packages have unmet dependencies:
17:15<website> lsb-desktop : Depends: libpng12-0 but it is not installable
17:15<website>E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
17:15<website>
17:15-!-website was kicked from #debian by debchange [flood detected]
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17:15-!-Despatche is "Wealth and glory to the winner" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #linux
17:15-!-website is "website" on #debian
17:15-!-website [~website@ool-182f24b4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
17:15<website>so I'm like: ok, lets see what held pkg there is
17:16<website>apt-mark showhold
17:16<website>(nothing)
17:16<website>so...
17:16<website>what do I do?
17:16<sussudio>!enter
17:16<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked for flooding the channel.
17:16<website>I need to install lsb
17:16<website>sussudio: I'm on a 10x270 terminal display
17:16-!-ddsys [~ddsys@0002a5a5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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17:16<website>and it doesn't wrap
17:17<website>I can't install linux standard base because lsb-desktop is "uninstallable"
17:17<website>what do I do?
17:17<website>sussudio: can you help?
17:20<alexandro>git run?
17:20<sarnold>why do you want lsb-desktop? where does it come from? what does it offer?
17:21<website>sarnold: one of your debian spin offs
17:21<website>I think it's a reg debian packages
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17:24<Sqrt{not}>website, which debian spin off ?
17:25-!-aigleroy88 [~amnesia@0BGAAEJHK.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:25<website>Sqrt{not}: the anti-taliban one
17:25<website>Sqrt{not}: "Devuan"
17:25<sussudio>every time.
17:25<website>they are cunts
17:25<website>(pardon my french)
17:25<Sqrt{not}>%devuan
17:25<dselect>Devuan (https://devuan.org/) is a Debian <derivative>, meant to avoid dependencies on <systemd>. Not supported in #debian, please see #devuan on irc.libera.chat for support.
17:25<website>Sqrt{not}: they won't fix their package
17:26<website>they don't even know what the linux standard base is
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17:26<Sqrt{not}>website, are you running devuan?
17:26<website>this i386 is
17:26<website>sorry it's the only option for this box
17:26<website>I've run debian for about 17 years no problems
17:27<Sqrt{not}>that package doesn't seem to be in debian's repositories
17:27<website>this devuan spin off, for this i386 box, is giving me probs, but I didn't have a choice here
17:27<ansgar>website: If you use a taliban os, ask in the taliban support channel.
17:27<website>hmm wonder how they fked it up
17:27<website>ansgar: im using the anti-taliban OS
17:27<website>they're super progressive
17:27<irc_cloud>website: all the same you could stand to be a bit more respectful when asking for support
17:28<website>irc_cloud: I respect debian
17:28<website>irc_cloud: devuan... eh...
17:28<irc_cloud>I'm also in the channel that you're "asking for support" in on Libera.chat and you're being far from respectful
17:28<Sqrt{not}>for devuan support, please use the devuan channel
17:28<website>irc_cloud: they didn't even know what LSB was
17:28<website>irc_cloud: I can't respect that. I remeber when LSB was started
17:28<irc_cloud>Anyways, this is the upstream channel for debian proper, you still want #devuan, that is, if you stay there
17:28<website>"lsb is an epson supplied package" --devuan
17:29<irc_cloud>Not a Debian problem. Move on.
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17:29<website>irc_cloud: #devuan doesn't even know how the package manager works
17:29<irc_cloud>Then don't use it, simple
17:29<website>no
17:29<Sqrt{not}>website, what kind of 386 machine?
17:29<website>look if I have to come and kill those fuckers I will
17:29<irc_cloud>There it is.
17:29-!-feuerrot [~feuerrot@shells.chaosdorf.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:29-!-mode/#debian [+o ansgar] by ChanServ
17:29<Sqrt{not}>OK, bye
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17:30<website>I provided them like a whole year of written arguments, which they used
17:30<website>to rope people into starting their thing
17:30<website>they quoted me etc
17:30-!-mode/#debian [+b website!*@*.dyn.optonline.net] by ansgar
17:30-!-website was kicked from #debian by ansgar [website]
17:30*irc_cloud shrugs
17:30<jhujhiti>sounds like someone needs a k-line
17:30<sney>something in the water today
17:31<irc_cloud>I wish I could say that's not how they were behaving over on Libera, but they're pulling the same lines out of their hat
17:31<irc_cloud>Shame, absolute shame
17:31-!-mode/#debian [-o ansgar] by ansgar
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17:38<sicelo>possibly silly question - what are the login credentials for the genericcloud images?
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17:39<asdflkj_sh>what's the quickest way to find the upstream source of a package?
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17:41<sicelo>get the debian source. iirc, it contains the upstream source, and has a patch/ directory with the patches needed for debian
17:41-!-asdflkj_sh is now known as asdflkj
17:42<irc_cloud>sicelo: tried debian/debian?
17:42<sicelo>Yes, didn't work
17:43<irc_cloud>I also assume you've read over https://wiki.debian.org/Cloud/
17:43<asdflkj>is there a faster way to find a url for the upstream? (I want to clone it to a non-debian machine to build from source)
17:43<sicelo>Yeah, that's where I downloaded it from
17:43<irc_cloud>Did you read the last bit on the default username
17:44<sicelo>Yes
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17:44<sicelo>Seems the 'genericcloud' images are newer than the info in wiki
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17:46<sicelo>asdflkj: I'd `apt-cache show <pkg-name> | grp "Homepage"`
17:46<sicelo>*grep
17:46<asdflkj>thanks!
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17:51<sicelo>https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-cloud@lists.debian.org/msg04646.html - weird. the description in https://cloud.debian.org/images/cloud/ for 'genericcloud' is a bit unclear then, i'd say
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17:52<sicelo>downloading 'nocloud' now - but at this point i'm still wondering how i'll login to it. :-/
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17:53<sicelo>to explain my aim - i just want a ready image i can run in qemu
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18:04<rvandegrift>sicelo: you'll have better luck with nocloud - root has no password. genericcloud has cloud-init installed and expects a cloud-provider like metadata service to configure it
18:05<sicelo>yes thanks. i've just got the nocloud image up and running
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18:50<fudgespinner>so what's the basics and how to create bonding network for Wi-fi and Ethernet?
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18:52<Sqrt{not}>%bonding
18:52<dselect>extra, extra, read all about it, bonding is configuring two NICs with same IP address, increasing throughput and providing failover. For setup instructions, see http://wiki.debian.org/Bonding . See also http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/bonding.txt . Older information at http://debian-administration.org/articles/350
18:53<fudgespinner>thank you
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19:53<danielssan>is there a way to auto create a network for systemd-nspawn containers? because every time I create a container, I have no networking at all :/
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19:54<sney>I'd imagine there's a way to provision it from your configuration at the first run, though I haven't played with systemd-nspawn yet
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19:55<danielssan>seems like most debian people don't interact with systemd-nspawn, as I can't get any information on it through my search engine, and all other entries say that a virtual network is automatically created, which doesn't happen on debian
19:55<sarnold>danielssan: there's almost too many ways to do it, check the systemd-nspawn manpage for something like half-dozen different choices
19:56<zoke>danielssan: are you using systemd-networkd? That seems to be a requirement for automatic network creation
19:56<danielssan>zoke, yes using systemd-networkd :/
19:56<sney>the arch wiki has a lot of tips as usual, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd-nspawn#Networking
19:57<zoke>danielssan: the people at arch have a nice wiki about it
19:57<sney>haha, jinx
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19:57<zoke>sney: for some reasone the arch people are good with documentation :p
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19:58<danielssan>ugh, so I really need to create a file every time I spin up a container oO wow
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20:05<danielssan>and afaik, there is no way with debootstrap to create tarball (with the container inside)?
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20:07<zoke>pretty sure you can use pbuilder to create a chroot inside a tarball
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20:12<kryptosApokalypsis>chanlogs
20:13<Sqrt{not}>%irclog
20:13<dselect>#debian on <freenode> is logged at http://infobot.rikers.org/%23debian/ , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/
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20:14<zoke>danielssan: "pbuilder create --basetgz bullseye.tgz --distribution bullseye" can be used to create a tgz container
20:14<Sqrt{not}>ewww, fleenode. Are the logs for the new place?
20:15<danielssan>thanks zoke
20:15<somiaj>well this is oftc so I assume that part is what you want
20:15<somiaj>though unsure if anyone is publishing logs for libera yet
20:15<zoke>danielssan: if you need specific debootstrap options you can use the "--debootstrap" option
20:16<zoke>danielssan: check out pbuilder(8) for more info
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20:19<danielssan>yeah, i just read it, quite interesting tool for sure
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20:55<Ap0them>I'm trying to put debian on a raspberry pi but I can't find the downloads page for arm anywhere, where would I find it?
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20:57<Sqrt{not}>Ap0them, start here: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current/
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20:58<Sqrt{not}>%pi
20:58<dselect>The Raspberry Pi is based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. http://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ #debian-raspberrypi on OFTC #raspberrypi on irc.libera.chat.
20:59<Ap0them>Sqrt{not} where is that page found in the debian site?
21:00<Sqrt{not}>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current/ is in the debian site
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21:04<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: should really change that factoid a little
21:05<Ap0them>I guess I just gicured itt would be throught the main debian site, not through searching
21:05<Ap0them>''debian images'
21:05<acidsys>Ap0them: from www.debian.org -> "Download" -> "Getting Debian" -> either "Download an installation image" or "small installation image" -> arm64
21:06<acidsys>that then chooses a mirror for you, or alternatively on "getting debian" -> "mirrors" you can choose one
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21:07<somiaj>I think for the pi there are some premade images, as opposed to using an installer
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21:07<Sqrt{not}>tjcarter, probably right, but I don't know enough to do that job
21:07<somiaj>https://raspi.debian.net/
21:08<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: The major things are armhf works on Pi 2 and above, aarch64 works on Pi 3 and above. And RPF has an armhf that is based on armv6 not armv7 (yes I know that can and does cause problems.)
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21:15<d9odol>hello
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21:16<dvs>!next
21:16<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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21:20<tjcarter>lol
21:21<tjcarter>Sqrt{not}: Questionable if the Pi 3 oughtta have aarch64 or not though because 1GB of RAM on a 64 bit system is pain
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21:22<sarnold>it's an rpi3, pain was a given :)
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21:25<tjcarter>I actually used a Pi 3 as my only machine for a little while
21:25<tjcarter>web browsing sucked, but it sucks on a 16T processor with 32GB of RAM
21:25<tjcarter>but XFCE ran fine on it
21:25<alexandro>fsck did not work.
21:26<sarnold>tjcarter: I was mighty impressed with what the pi3 could do, for the price
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21:27<sarnold>tjcarter: but yeah.. web is unfun eveywrhere these days :(
21:27<tjcarter>I blame farceblech
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22:12<danielssan>is there a guide on debian, where you bootstrap your own system and get to a state which resembles one from the official installer? idk what's going on, but my system is kinda weird, that's why I am debating about reinstalling, but as I want to use btrfs for my root system, debian-installer doesn't give me too many choices for subvolumes :/
22:14<jmcnaught>danielssan: this part of the install manual might be what you are looking for: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/apds03.en.html
22:14<jmcnaught>danielssan: you might also be able to go to a shell from the normal debian-installer to create subvolumes
22:16<danielssan>jmcnaught: ahh i guess i use the debian-installer then, I had found out that for whatever reason I had no usrmerge, my systemctl is-system-running is telling degraded (because of fwupd-refresh.service) and some other things. so I would probably rather try to get everything as much as possible to what debian intended (minus fs)
22:17<danielssan>but weird enough, those steps are which i used to setup my os, with a bullseye live image :/
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22:19<danielssan>jmcnaught last question then, i assume I need to setup the subvolumes after i setup the disks in the installer?
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22:20<jmcnaught>danielssan: that is what I would try. I have not tried this myself.
22:20<danielssan>jmcnaught great. thanks :)
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22:21<danielssan>ahh before I forget it, is there a way when I chroot into a directory, to not have my own locales pushed to the chrooted system?
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22:24<somiaj>danielssan: You may have to invoke a login(1) shell when running chroot to have it use a new enviorment created by the chroot
22:24<danielssan>somiaj: how would I do that?
22:25<somiaj>so by default I think bash or whatever shell you use in the chroot is loads an interative shell vs a login shell
22:25<danielssan>man chroot doesn't say anything about it
22:25<somiaj>it is about the shell that is loaded
22:25<somiaj>the COMMAND part you can force a login shell I belive
22:25<somiaj>so maybe something like chroot target /bin/bash -l
22:26<danielssan>ahh :) thanks will try that
22:31<danielssan>somiaj: sadly it doesn't work :/ but guess I will look into this some more
22:31<somiaj>let me do some testing
22:32<somiaj>do you have locales installed in the chroot, I konw deboostrap won't dot hat by default?
22:32<somiaj>Are these persistant chroots, or you just want this in general for any chroot?
22:33<danielssan>without it, but i normally install locales-all in it (as I have multiple set in /etc/default/locales)
22:33<danielssan>any chroot would be best
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22:38<somiaj>once in the chroot, running 'su -', does that set your locales correctly?
22:40<somiaj>danielssan: guess you should just force a login, this seems to work for me, chroot target su -l
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22:41<somiaj>I was hoping a login shell was enough, but isntead just force a root login
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22:45<danielssan>somiaj: yup, it's working now, but sad that it has to be that way.
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22:46<somiaj>well what you want is a full login it sounds like, so that sounds like the best way to do it, login, vs just running a shell that inherits the previous enviorment
22:47<somiaj>you could also setup .bashrc in the chroot if needed too, but in this case it it sounds like you want a full login, just use a full login
22:47<danielssan>yeah I guess I just make an alias when I debootstrap to always include locales-all xD. i know that I find it annoying to ctrl+d twice to exit the chroot
22:47<somiaj>I think by default chroot just runs /bin/sh
22:47<somiaj>you do? I didn't
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22:47<somiaj>this is if I run chroot target su -l directly
22:48<somiaj>if you run su after int he chroot, yes you have to exit twice
22:48<danielssan>doh, you are right, this makes way more sense :)
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22:48<danielssan>great thanks somiaj :)
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23:05<alex11>where are plugins in vlc? when i go to tools > plugins and extensions and install a skin, and then in preferences choose 'use custom skin' - where is the file path?
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23:07<alex11>.local/share/vlc
23:07<alex11>got it
23:08<liquidsnake>good job
23:08<liquidsnake>i was going to ask if you had searched vlc documentation first or not
23:09<alex11>except now the file picker won't display hidden directories
23:09<liquidsnake>hmm
23:10<alex11>ok same keybind, control h
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---Logclosed Fri Sep 24 00:00:03 2021