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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-27

---Logopened Mon Sep 27 00:00:02 2021
---Daychanged Mon Sep 27 2021
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00:30<tizef>hi guys! I dont get some fonts properly like in FireFox, Asians caracters do not show and a replaced by some cubes right ? What I have found on the web is that it seems to be a UTF-8 problem ?
00:30<tizef>So do you know how can I fix it ?
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00:39<tjcarter>tizef: it shouldn't be utf-8 necessarily since it would have those characters if you have the right fonts
00:40<tjcarter>tizef: what might be happening is the page doesn't report correctly what it should be sending you
00:40<tjcarter>have an example URL?
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00:46<tizef>tjcarter, yep! https://debian-facile.org/viewtopic.php?id=6824 >>> thats my profil, you can see on the left >>> " Lieu : " then there are Dhivehi fonts... before it used to show, but now on my debian11 it show like this >>> Lieu : ވޭމަންޑޫ
00:47<somiaj>might just be missing fonts
00:47<somiaj>not all fonts contain all utf-8 glyphs
00:47<tjcarter>in fact most fonts do not contain them all
00:47<tjcarter>that one doesn't load for me without a login
00:47<tizef>yes they are missing from my /usr/share/fonts that I know... so because of that it will affect FireFox ?
00:48<somiaj>yea, often you need multiple fonts, and fall back fonts are used if glyphs are missing in your main font
00:48<tjcarter>"Accueil", okay, it is appropriate in languages like French to have your site's front page listed as "Accueil" then.
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00:49*tjcarter has been working on a page that gets translated into about 15 different localizations
00:51<tizef>yes acceuil is french...
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00:52<tizef>another strange thing is I own also the user " tzf " in here, I can see you guys on my mobile phone, but when I post it do not show... like I have been ignored by the chan and now I am only as reader ?
00:52<tizef>I cant type
00:52<tizef>i mean post
00:53<tizef>so I will load the fonts and see what happens
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00:54<tizef>I restart my mobile phone, maybe it's my app, sorry it's messy now, I mix two topics
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00:56<tizef>yeah ! style it doesn't work, I might been half-banned, oops
00:56<tizef>tzf is mutted
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00:58<tjcarter>tizef: I knew the word, I just didn't know if it was normal for a page that would have a link "Home" in English to use "Acceuil" in French. I think in Japanese it would be more appropriate to use the Kana for "Homepage" rather than the Kanji for home
00:58<tizef>yes
00:59<tizef>languages are sometimes strange, right ?
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00:59<tjcarter>That being based on nothing other than some vague notions about how Japan has imported Western words (English in particular)
00:59<tizef>okay fonts are now loaded in ~/.fonts so I will restart and see
00:59<tjcarter>04:59 <tjcarter> Language is hard.
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01:00<tizef>why hard ?
01:00*tjcarter notes it's 22:00 now
01:00<tizef>oh, here it's 10am
01:00<tizef>lol
01:00<tjcarter>Because I'm an American and really only speak one, can kind of read others (Latin-based) in context, etc.
01:01<tjcarter>Just noting that I made the comment above 17 hours ago 😁
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01:02<tizef>ok, reboot
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01:03<tizef>hey ! thanks guys ! now it's fine about the fonts !!!
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01:09<tizef>pq_ is tzf but on termux+weechat and still can't post, so.....
01:09<somiaj>running that account as root?
01:10<tizef>I don't think so, it's on android phone
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01:11<somiaj>yea, I checked, it isn't
01:12<tizef>I may had said something wrong or something else...
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01:19<somiaj>tizef: I wonder if it is an issue with your client, I am not seeing any quiets that would affect that account.
01:19<somiaj>do you have issues with other channels to?
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01:23<tizef>somiaj, no issue as far as I know... tjcarter suppose that it's a registry problem...
01:23<tizef>it might be right ? I should try, okay I try
01:23<tjcarter>somiaj: his other nick isn't registered/identified
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01:24<somiaj>oh yea, we are +M right now, I guess we had some spam bots, one second
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01:25<somiaj>tjcarter: thanks
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01:25<somiaj>tizef: Yea, we were muting unregistered users, we usually only do that when spam is bad, I'll take it off for now
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01:39<tizef>somiaj, I was registred too
01:39<tizef>so it's nota registry problem
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01:42<somiaj>tizef: that's fine, still we do prefer to not force users to register for support, just at times it is good spam protection
01:43<tizef>yes, sure
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02:54<alex11>why do i get df: /run/user/1000/doc: Operation not permitted on df -h?
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03:48<tjcarter>seems my attempts to make my initramfs do what I wanted failed … I'm trying to add an early setfont, before cryptsetup
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03:49<tjcarter>Kinda wish I had a more convenient way to test/debug this
03:51<tjcarter>current test method is … do stuff, reboot, and see if it worked
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03:51<tjcarter>a bit rough since I can't actually see the messages on my console so it's literally all or nothing
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03:59<Tj>tjcarter: that's easy - if you're testing just to the initrd, point a virtual machine at the boot disk and use "break=mountroot" to not actually mount root so you'd don't upset things
04:00<tjcarter>that might help make the testing go faster
04:00<tjcarter>wait, wouldn't I want to break sooner than that? If it gets to cryptsetup and I still can't read my screen …
04:00<tjcarter>I should set the break there then
04:01<Tj>tjcarter: well it'll at least stop at that point regardless, but you can stop it earlier and manually work through the steps too
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04:04<tjcarter>I think I might just want to dump the cpio and figure out what starts when to start
04:04<tjcarter>I just haven't had to do that since … before cpio was used for such things
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04:07<rany97>hellow, I'm using Nvidia Graphic Card, and have installed nvidia drivers, but how to disable hardware acceleration on X11 and how to verify it?
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04:09<tjcarter>rany97: you are looking for a way to test whether the drivers are working?
04:13<tjcarter>rany97: please don't randomly PM people. Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually know everything and I do screw up from time to time. Asking the channel is the best way to get accurate information quickly
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04:15<tjcarter>actually disabling NV … is difficult. The proprietary drivers do their best to suppress Mesa since Mesa … doesn't work with them
04:15<tjcarter>(Mesa is how you get non-accellerated OpenGL, AKA "pain")
04:15<rany97>sry for that, it's not on purpose, I just used a wrong command
04:16<tjcarter>we were all new once
04:16<tjcarter>I can tell you how to check if NV drivers are rendering though
04:17<tjcarter>you probably have glxgears installed, glxgears -info in a terminal will run a little program with vsync on
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04:17<tjcarter>but it'll spit out a bunch of crud to your terminal about the OpenGL driver
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04:18<tjcarter>__GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 glxgears will run it without vblank sync on NV hardware
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04:19<tjcarter>if it says it's still locked to a monitor refresh (you should be getting FPS in the thousands if it isn't on any modern GPU), try __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 vblank_mode=0 glxgears
04:19<tjcarter>108052 frames in 5.0 seconds = 21610.223 FPS ← crusty old Radeon RX 580
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04:22<rany97>tjcarter, Sry I still have no idea how to check hardware acceleration is enabled or not
04:23<cc>rany97: why do you want to disable it?
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04:25<tjcarter>rany97: run glxgears -info and look for the GL_RENDERER line
04:26<tjcarter>If it's using NV's driver, it'll say so
04:27<rany97>cc: Because I want to use a realtime linux and hardware acceleration will be a latency killer
04:27<rany97>tjcarter: I'll try it, thanks
04:27*tjcarter blinks
04:28<tjcarter>realtime + hardware 3D = latency?
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04:29<cc>rany97: what you are saying makes less and less sense
04:29<cc>but ok, at least now it is clear
04:29<tjcarter>or specifically (f**k) Nvidia + RT kernel = latency not found when using nouveau?
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04:31<rany97>tjcarter: I tested the latency and found wired results, but the same test looked well after I removed NV drivers and used tty only
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04:32<rany97>cc: Well, I'm poor at English...
04:33<tjcarter>rany97: what card are you using?
04:34<rany97>tjcarter: GTX1650
04:34<tjcarter>Hmm
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04:35<tjcarter>if it were a 10 series card, I'd be 100% comfortable saying you'd find Nouveau probably supports your hardware better today than NV's own driver
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04:35<tjcarter>A 1650 … I dunno, it's worth a try if you don't need some proprietary NV libs
04:37<tjcarter>I know Nouveau is not yet the best recommendation for RTX cards
04:38<cc>tjcarter: as far as I am aware nouveau was, is, and will remain garbage for forseeable future
04:38<rany97>tjcarter: in fact I used Nouveau once, but My desktop environment crashed once and once again...
04:39<tjcarter>cc: nouveau works better than nvidia on older hardware
04:39<cc>how older are we talking ?
04:39<tjcarter>9 series cards, likely 10 series by now
04:40<cc>nouveau is beyond garbage performance wise on anything after nvidia gtx 6xx
04:40<cc>was, is, probably continue to be
04:40<cc>the best thing you can do with nouveau is uninstall the userspace components and blacklist the driver
04:40<tjcarter>and on a 6 series … you might as well not bother
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04:41<cc>see recent benchmark https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau-kepler-2021&num=2
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04:41<cc>and many more over the years on the same website
04:41<tjcarter>cc: but rany97 wants to use RT … and the NV driver is a black box, so who knows what it is doing.
04:41<cc>https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=Nouveau
04:41<cc>tjcarter: I don't know what rany97 wants; I don't think rany97 knows what rany97 wants right now.
04:42*tjcarter remembers trying to run RT kernel once because he thought he wanted low latency
04:42<tjcarter>fast is good!
04:42<tjcarter>except that's not what low latency means necessarily
04:43<tjcarter>the non-RT kernel was faster for my needs, actually, but several percent.
04:43<rany97>GL_RENDERER = llvmpipe (LLVM 11.0.1, 256 bits)
04:43<rany97>GL_VERSION = 3.1 Mesa 21.2.2
04:43<rany97>GL_VENDOR = Mesa/X.org
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04:44<rany97>tjcarter, These are the output infos, I don't know their meanings..
04:44<tjcarter>That looks like not accelerated
04:45<tjcarter>also, if you need to paste multiple lines, termbin.com is a great thing
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04:46<tjcarter>glxgears -info | nc termbin.com 9999 ← quit glxgears and you'll get a URL in a moment, it's cool
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04:47<rany97>tjcarter, ok, will try next time, thanks
04:48<rany97>have some manuals or ducuoments to learn about IRC, I'm also new to use IRC
04:48*tjcarter ❤️ termbin.com, a terminal-friendly pastebin with darkmode. What else could an albino nerd want?
04:49<debuser0927>I have ethernet problems running bullseye, related to bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1927925, which suggests a workaround of doing 'echo on | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000\:00\:16.0/power/control'. The workaround works for me, but what would be the easiest and best way to automtically run this at boot?
04:49<cc>tjcarter: "overall the GeForce GTX 680 was running at just 66% the speed of the proprietary driver for these GPUs that have been around for nearly one decade"
04:50<cc>(66% is a very generous average and relies on manual reclocking)
04:50<cc>with GTX 900 and later that is unavailable too
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04:50<cc>https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau-kepler-2021&num=4
04:51<tjcarter>cc: ugh 🤮
04:51<cc>using nouveau with gtx 900/10xx and later is only reasonable if the user does not care at all about any sort of 3d performance
04:51<tjcarter>cc: I used to have a GTX 980
04:51<tjcarter>cc: I swapped it for a lower-performance RX 580 because f**k nvidia
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04:52<tjcarter>I'd rather have less GPU than have a GPU that causes my system to be buggy and unstable.
04:53<tjcarter>Especially since if the Radeon driver has some bugs (and it has), there's at least reasonably some opportunity that I can track them down and fix them.
04:55<tjcarter>debuser0927: thinking about that … is there possibly a module parameter to add or do you really need to manipulate the /sys interface?
04:56<tjcarter>not familiar with the issue
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04:58<rany97>tjcarter, I disable the fbdev driver, but get the same output while running "glxgear -info"
04:58<cc>debuser0927: you can use systemd to execute commands at startup
04:58<cc>historically, rc.local was used for that but I think that no longer works
04:58<tjcarter>debuser0927: you probably want to create a .service file in /etc/systemd … maybe /etc/systemd/system/fix_ethernet.service
04:59<cc>does current stable still run /etc/rc.local at boot?
05:00<tjcarter>debuser0927: https://termbin.com/3xi6
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05:00<tjcarter>debuser0927: then create the one-line script in /usr/local/sbin
05:01<tjcarter>cc: it might, I think it's been deprecated for awhile now so … I wasn't planning to count on it.
05:01<debuser0927>tjcarter: thanks a lot, will try that!
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05:02<tjcarter>cc: I learned to write units for other reasons, I'm not going back to non-systemd now, so might as well write the unit
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05:05*tjcarter thinks rany97 took a working system with nv driver and tried to rip stuff out in pursuit of "latency" and has managed to put things in an inconsistent state now
05:06<tjcarter>that's not going to be a fast and easy debug, and I'm not awake enough to do the debugging I think
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05:13<tjcarter>B- (lacking in creativity)
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05:37<c2main>Hi, is it expected that "python-apt" source package on buster produces a ptyhon3-apt binary : https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/python-apt look the suspicious mix
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05:44<petn-randall>c2main: What makes that suspicious to you? There are many source packages that produce binary packages that don't have the exact same name.
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05:51<WhilelM>hello, I have a fresh bullseye install and I want to confirm how works automatic packages updates
05:52<petn-randall>WhilelM: If you want automatic package updates, you'll need to install a few things. Depending a bit on how you'd like them. :)
05:52<petn-randall>WhilelM: Is this a server or a desktop machine?
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05:53<WhilelM>I checked "software & updates", Updates / and it show Automaticaly check for updates "never"
05:53<WhilelM>I think it's a pb. Is it default ?
05:53<petn-randall>WhilelM: What is "pb"?
05:53<crawler>what is pb?
05:53<WhilelM>petn-randall: it's for desktop, I see that unattended-upgrades is installed
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05:54<WhilelM>that there isn't automatically update. How the desktop will notify user there are updates to install ?
05:54<crawler>for desktops automatic upgrades are done via systemd timers
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05:55<WhilelM>ok, I should check apt-daily.timer and apt-daily-upgrade.timer
05:56<WhilelM>aIs there a documentation somewhere which document the behavior for users ?
05:56<WhilelM>s/aIs/Is/
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05:58<c2main>petn-randall: not talking about the name but the version of pythong
05:58<c2main>I though buster default was python2.7, not 3
06:00<petn-randall>c2main: That's correct. But for bullseye and above it defaults to python 3.x.
06:02<c2main>I'm talking about buster, you're correct
06:02<c2main>so default to 2.7 but python-apt does build a python3 binary, no python2
06:03<ansgar>c2main: It also builds a binary package for use with python2.
06:03<c2main>oh ?
06:03<c2main>ansgar: I missed that
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06:03<c2main>All I get is a : "[WARNING]: Updating cache and auto-installing missing dependency: python3-apt"
06:04<petn-randall>c2main: Doing what exactly?
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06:05<c2main>mmmh I'm deploying debian:10 docker, let me check if by chance it's this systemctl script the problem
06:06<c2main>bingo
06:07<c2main>petn-randall, ansgar ok, so the explanations: I'm also installing systemctl (from backports) and it looks like this one is python3 (the script I have for centos is python2, ....AHHH)
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06:08<c2main>for the context, it's testing with molecule, in docker. It allows to discover unknown paths of failure. good imagination.....
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06:32<pbox>hello, I did a full-upgrade and I got a something went wrong error. the gnome session doesnt start but I can access the CLI terminals
06:33<pbox>everything seems fine except gnome shell - I asked in gnome IRC channel and they told me I should check here first
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06:37<petn-randall>pbox: Did the upgrade complete?
06:37<petn-randall>pbox: First thing I'd check is if the upgrade is finished. Via CLI.
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06:37<pbox>yes it finished
06:38<pbox>i upgraded last night, shut down the computer, when I tried to log in this morning I got this error
06:38<pbox>tried to update / full-upgrade again via cli
06:38<pbox>and it updated a few more packages but nothing changed
06:38<petn-randall>pbox: From what to what did you upgrade?
06:39<pbox>I'm using unstable so
06:39<pbox>I think there's no release update
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06:40<petn-randall>pbox: Ah! Welcome to beta-testing our mostly untested software then!
06:40<petn-randall>!debian-next
06:40<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on libera.chat. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc
06:40<petn-randall>pbox: You may join the channel above and ask for support there. ^^^
06:40<pbox>ok will do
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06:54<alex11>can someone clarify ip? is it related to ifconfig? i know one of them is deprecated and replaced with something else
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06:55<ansgar>alex11: ifconfig is deprecated since ~20 years and was superseded by ip.
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07:08<wuniu>why i cant print chinese in hexchat, everywhere but hexchat the fcitx5 works well
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08:40<jkc>alex11: More precisely, net-tools was deprecated (and every command in it) and superseded by the iproute2 toolset.
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08:41<jkc>https://access.redhat.com/sites/default/files/attachments/rh_ip_command_cheatsheet_1214_jcs_print.pdf
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08:49<crawler>jkc thanks for sharing this sheet, I am assuming all of it applies to debian as well, am I correct?
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09:06<jkc>Correct.
09:06<jkc>And essentially any Linux distro these days. Some may include net-tools in order to satisfy ancient dependencies, but EVERY distro has the iproute2 tools.
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09:08<jkc>And, for completion's sake, this obviously does not apply to the BSDs. BSD ifconfig != GNU ifconfig.
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09:16<crawler>Thanks
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09:54<fernie>oh they have cheat sheet, nice. next time rhel certified support person comes and says "im not familiar with debian network tools or command ip" can have that link in bookmarks
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09:55<jkc>If a RHEL certified support person doesn't know the 'ip' command, demand someone else.
09:56<fernie>seem to be completely clueless mostly, of anything
09:56<fernie>tbh, not sure about certification. some outsourcing scheme
09:59<jkc>No, their cert program is in-house. ANyway, off topic.
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10:04<koollman>maybe they were certified a long time ago. I'm fairly sure modern rhel certification includes 'ip'
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10:06<another>net-tools have been deprecated a long time. must be a really old certification
10:07<koollman>well, rhel 6 or 7 are pretty old :)
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10:10<ansgar>These fancy, new 20-year-old replacements for ifconfig ;-)
10:11<koollman>hey. one formation per decade is too much ;)
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10:24<ljlkjj>Hi
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10:30<mjt>"debian network tooks or command ip"? that's really lovely... ;)))
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10:30<mjt>debian invented something non-standard *again* :))
10:30<imMute>mjt: what?
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10:32<jkc>imMute: It's a joke.
10:32<mjt>imMute: doesn't matter.. it's some prior discussion
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10:57<ironChicken>on sid, i can't do the kernel upgrade from 5.10 to 5.14 as my /boot partition runs out of space. the partition has 237M total, of which 134M was free before i tried the upgrade. when i've had this problem in the past it's just been because i've had >1 old kernels installed and i've just removed the earlier ones to free space.
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10:57<ironChicken>but now i have only 5.10 installed but it still runs out of space. any suggestions what i should do?
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10:58<ironChicken>also, i've had this problem on two machines. so i'm wondering if other people might also be experiencing it.
10:58<bremner>#debian-next for sid support
10:58<ironChicken>bremner: ah, ok. thanks
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11:10<jepler>Hi! I'm using debian bullseye on a pi4 and I'm looking for the most straightforward way to set up wifi. It's currently on a wire and I can ssh in. I didn't find any specific advice at https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi4 and it's been awhile since I've done it without graphical tools.
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11:14<petn-randall>jepler: You can use nmcli for that, which is the CLI frontend for network-manager.
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11:16<troethe>Why is gcc-doc in non-free??
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11:16<themill>it's not, it's in contrib
11:16<themill>!gfdl
11:16<dpkg>[gfdl] The GNU "Free" Documentation License, considered <non-free> by Debian in some cases. Read the discussion at http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/debian-legal-200309/msg00169.html and http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/debian-legal-200304/msg00246.html . See the position statement at http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html and resolution at http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001
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11:18<troethe>Does this mean I can't get a manpage for gcc without adding contrib?
11:19<themill>GNU man pages tend to be fairly useless in any case
11:21<mjt>gcc manpage has some value. But installing contrib without adding contrib is indeed difficult
11:21<jepler>it looks like `gcc.1` comes from gcc-doc. There's a `c89-gcc` and `c99-gcc` manpage in the gcc packate, though
11:22<themill>But yes, because these docs contain material that cannot be edited, they're not suitable for inclusion in Debian.
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11:23<jepler>fwiw I personally chose to enable contrib to have gcc's _info_ pages, they do have detailed descriptions of the optimizer flags. but the docs are also readily available for viewing online
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11:28<jepler>got my wireless going using /etc/network/interfaces.d/ yay
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12:48<troethe>thanks for the tip with the c89-gcc. I'll probably enable contrib and non-free anyways, because I need some proprietary Qualcomm drivers anyways :(
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13:02<Joe00>do anyone have freezing issues with debian 11?
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13:03<petn-randall>Joe00: Maybe?
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13:12<troethe>But isn't it still quite weird, that on a system that strives to be at least somewhat POSIX compatible, `man cc` doesn't yield anything? Maybe Debian should consider switching to clang as its default C compiler. Their man pages seem to have a more permissible license :)
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13:14<bremner>yeah, that wouldn't be disruptive at all :eyeroll:
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13:42<mooff>Joe00: do you..?
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13:54<pi12345>was so confused why my debian vm kept freezing
13:54<pi12345>apparently it's the suspend feature. it's something insane like 20 minutes
13:55-!-eroux is "Eugéne Roux" on #oftc #Corsair #ovirt #xfs #lvm #alpine-linux #LUGs #kvm #virt
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14:00<somiaj>pi12345: which desktop?
14:00<somiaj>20 mins is fairly common for desktops to suspend for power savings
14:02<pi12345>i don't know. whatever the default is. gnome i assume
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14:02<pi12345>for desktops it doesn't freeze the system. XD
14:02<mjt>and the vm - which kind of vm it is?
14:02<pi12345>although i was able to sometimes get it back by picking "ACPI shutdown" from the virtualbox menu
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14:02<mjt>virtualbox..
14:03<pi12345>well it could be worse. before i was using a WSL1 instance
14:03<pi12345>my actual debian install needs to be updated to bullseye
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14:08<somiaj>yea, if you install a desktop like gnome, then login to it, its power saving features will be active, you can disable them though
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14:10<pi12345>yes. after a few hours of confusing freezes i figured that out.
14:10<pi12345>before i create my vms next time i need to make sure to disable all power saving
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14:11<somiaj>yea, I guess I haven't ran across this since I don't use xorg in my vms
14:11<pi12345>i see
14:12<pi12345>xorg does power and sleep stuff iirc
14:12<somiaj>this is just due to gnome (or really any desktop) as they enable power saving features by default
14:12<somiaj>no, if you were to use say a simple wm, you most likely woudln't have power saving enabled by default
14:12<somiaj>I was just pointing out I just use ssh and command line stuff in my vms
14:12<pi12345>oh ok. i'll try to use simpler desktops next time then. like openbox or something
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14:13<pi12345>gnome doesn't even have a terminal in the dock. even mwm has a open terminal option by clicking
14:13<Sqrt{not}>gnome hides the terminal under "system tools"
14:14<somiaj>If you aren't using the features of gnome, might find a small wm nicer on resources too
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14:15<pi12345>yes thanks i'll look into that
14:15<pi12345>i can start mwm or openbox easily enough
14:15<Sqrt{not}>also, usually gnome has "open terminal" as an option if you right click in an empty place (but that might not be by default)
14:15<pi12345>i just don't know how to configure gnome and systemd to not start gnome
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14:15<somiaj>just don't select 'desktop enviomrent' and unsleect gnome when installing
14:15<pi12345>is it like system.multi-user-target?
14:16<somiaj>then manually install the window mangaer you want
14:16<pi12345>ok
14:16<somiaj>yes, you can also systemctl default multi-user.target to not boot into xorg at start at all
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14:16-!-coruja is "Markus Meyer" on #debian-next #oftc #frickelplatz #debian #blobot
14:16<somiaj>though you may still want a display manager for your wm, you have to decide what use case is best for you
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14:29<pi12345>yeah i need to understand systemd better
14:29<pi12345>so far all i know is using systemctl to start and restart services
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14:43<mia-khalifa>hi
14:44<mia-khalifa>i forgotten my password and my username in my /admin/ page
14:44<mia-khalifa>in my web server
14:44<mia-khalifa>how do i enter into it?
14:44<sussudio>go away marwan.
14:45<sney>haha
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14:57<petn-randall>mia-khalifa: How is this related to Debian?
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14:58<krauserii>according to this https://www.debian.org/security/faq#contrib these packages are not supported by the security team. Should I get their flatpak versions instead, for stuff like steam for example? I never had a problem with steam from the debian repos, but I don't know security wise what's the best choice, given what i read in this link
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14:59<somiaj>krauserii: in the case of steam, it always downloads the newest client and installs it in $HOME, so I personally wouldn't worry about that
15:01<somiaj>also many contrib packages end up downloading third party non-free software (which is exactly what steam's packgae in debian does), in this case debian cannot support it, it is just provided for convience.
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15:01<somiaj>In many cases this may not be any more or less secure than getting the software in a flatpak or snap
15:01<krauserii>got it
15:02<somiaj>Though that does bring up a catch-22, debian won't release virtualbox because we cannot provide security support for a frozen/lts version, but it is also a package that lives in contrib, wonder if that could get virtualbox back (doubt it, didn't notice that until now)
15:03<somiaj>though I guess it is best to not have it, otherwise people may end up using a insecure version of virtualbox which would be bad news
15:04<pi12345>somiaj: i'm not following you
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15:04<somiaj>pi12345: virtualbox is part of conrib (due to the BIOS needing non-free software to build it). And that link stats that debian security doesn't support packages in contrib.
15:05<somiaj>but the reason virtualbox was removed from stable was because it cannot have security support for a frozen version (since oracle won't help with this)
15:05<somiaj>so in essence a package that didn't get security support was removed for not being able to give it security support...
15:06<pi12345>i wasn't clear what you were talking about to begin with. the guest tools package? or like general virtualbox things?
15:07<sney>#794466
15:07<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/794466 in src:virtualbox (open, stretch, bullseye, buster, sid, bookworm): «virtualbox: might not be suitable for stable releases due to lack of cooperation from upstream on security support for older releases»; severity: serious; opened: 2015-08-03; last modified: 2021-08-16.
15:07<pi12345>i see virtualbox-guest-additions-iso and boinc-virtualbox if i search debian website
15:07<sney>specifically the virtualbox host software and anything packaged with it
15:07<sney>the virtualbox client drivers were added to mainline linux a while ago, so they aren't affected
15:07<somiaj>pi12345: virtualbox is only in sid
15:07<pi12345>oh you're talking about virtualbox itself. ohhhhhh
15:08<sney>the bug report linked above has the whole discussion
15:08<pi12345>they update so often i assume there'd be nothing to gain from that
15:08<pi12345>you cant' use vbox for more than a month without it nagging you to update it
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15:09<sney>right, and they won't support backporting security fixes to older versions, which is incompatible with debian stable policy
15:09<somiaj>anyways, enough of my rambling, just some strange incosistancy I noticed.
15:09<pi12345>i see
15:10<somiaj>but since virtualbox is in contrib, they don't support it anyways
15:11<pi12345>ok. i didn't understand the security policy also w.r.t. contrib
15:11<somiaj>pi12345: https://www.debian.org/security/faq#contrib
15:11<pi12345>contrib is different from non-free in that contrib has free src that depends on non-free?
15:12<somiaj>yes, and lots of the time it will download non-free stuff, which of course cannot be supported
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15:13<somiaj>yea this point doesn't seem to come up in the bug report that much, though here it is probably best we don't release it (even in contrib) since it cannot have security support
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15:25<pi12345>by the way. have you ever seen the message "a start job is running for update the operating system while offline"
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15:25<pi12345>i just saw it when i rebooted. is that saying its finishing things i apt-geted?
15:25<imMute>pi12345: yes, that's offline updates that systemd did. I don't think debian uses it though...
15:26<pi12345>systemd?
15:26<pi12345>well either way i just saw it. so debian must do that
15:27<pi12345>oh i bet i know the reason. i restored the virtual machine state to right after i did apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
15:27<pi12345>which is a bit disconcerting. implies i have to reboot to finalize those
15:27<imMute>you shouldn't need to...
15:28<pi12345>well if wishes were horses and all
15:28<pi12345>just thought i'd mention it
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15:53<RichSPK>I upgraded from Buster to Bullseye last weekend. I uninstalled packages that came from 3rd party repositories first, and now I'm re-installing them. I found I can't re-install Slack from the .deb because of a library dependency that isn't in the Bullseye repositories. The snap installed fine, but I'd rather not use that because it's a "classic" snap and because apt doesn't know about it that way. What's the preferred way to
15:53<RichSPK>install slack-desktop in Bullseye?
15:53<sussudio>,v slack-desktop
15:53<judd>No package named 'slack-desktop' was found in amd64.
15:53<sussudio>you don't.
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16:00<RichSPK>Discord has a similar problem. With slack-desktop I get "slack-desktop : Depends: libappindicator3-1 but it is not installable". With Discord I get "discord : Depends: libappindicator1 but it is not installable"
16:01<imMute>,v discord
16:01<judd>No package named 'discord' was found in amd64.
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16:01<petn-randall>,v libappindicator3-1
16:01<judd>Package: libappindicator3-1 on amd64 -- stretch: 0.4.92-4; buster: 0.4.92-7
16:02<petn-randall>RichSPK: Those packages have been removed in Debian because they're too old. Either use flatpak versions of those packages, or better ask them too recompile it to support Debian 11.
16:03<RichSPK>Thanks petn-randall!
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16:06<RichSPK>Also, where would be a good place to ask questions about getting Steam games working in Buster? The Steam launcher works fine, but nearly all the games crash to desktop from the splash screens.
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16:07<RichSPK>Sorry, I said Buster, but I meant Bullseye.
16:07<sussudio>check the logs to see if anything is in there
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16:10<RichSPK>sussudio: I'm not prepared to troubleshoot it right now, but I'll take a look. Is there a better irc channel for that, though?
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16:14<petn-randall>RichSPK: I'm guessing that bullseye might not yet be supported. Steam is usually fairly slow with that.
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16:17<RichSPK>Thanks again, petn-randall!
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16:18<petn-randall>RichSPK: You should check with the steam support website to verify this.
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17:37<DennisTheTiger>Hey, gang. Running stable and xfce4, everything's updated. Noted that I could not start google-chrome this morning. When run from a CLI, I get the responses as pasted into https://paste.debian.net/hidden/4a65ce3c/ - but my google google fu has failed me and I could not find anything recent that would point to a cause. I have not yet tested this in other window managers. Long and short, what else should I seek out?
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17:46<sussudio>chrome isn't in debian, chromium is, though. and it's still buggy and vulnerable.
17:48<sarnold>DennisTheTiger: wild guesses, in no particular order: (a) try turning off hardware acceleration (b) try enabling user namespaces in your kernel via the sysctl or procfs interfaces (try sysctl -a | grep namespaces to see if you can spot it)
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18:14<DennisTheTiger>sarnold: ...well, namespaces are operating.
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18:36<sarnold>DennisTheTiger: even unprivileged user namespaces?
18:37<DennisTheTiger>sarnold: ...it was debian-keyring, the password prompt done hid from me. Doh!
18:37<DennisTheTiger>Or rather, gnome-keyring.
18:37<sarnold>DennisTheTiger: aha! yay :)
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19:29<sputinikv>oi
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20:03<lechner>Hi, does anyone else have issues with simple-scan saving scans as gibberish? They look okay on screen, i.e. before saving
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20:46<bremner>nope, haven't seen that. I only use it once in a while, but it has been problem free
20:46<lechner>bremner: thanks! i just filed #995216
20:47<bremner>oh. I think I mainly do colour picture scan. Does that also cause problems?
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20:52<lechner>bremner: no, but it is in really poor quality and, at 384k, smaller than the Text scan of my two-page, Letter-sized vehicle registration.
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20:53<bremner>okay. I have version 40.1 on this testing system, but I can test
20:54<bremner>where do I set B&W? text I found.
20:55<danielssan>bremner: if you select text, it's automatically bw
20:55<bremner>ok, I see
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20:56<bremner>lechner: seems OK in evince (with simple-scan 40.1)
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20:56<danielssan>lechner: also fine here (on stable with a brother scanner)
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20:57<bremner>lechner: can you can something non-private, and attach the problematic file to the bug?
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21:02<danielssan>lechner: what could also help is, which scanner you are using, and how you set it up. most likely it doesn't matter too much, but maybe somebody can replicate your issue
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21:07<mint>im having an issues with a new Debian 11 with KDE. every time computer boots and enters KDE, /usr/bin/xembedsniproxy and /user/lib/xorg/Xorg peg the cpu to 100% for an indefinite length of time. only by killing xembedsniproxy does the cpu return to normal and everything functions normally. why is this happening?
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21:09<A|an>https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=289&t=168880
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21:24<lechner>danielssan: hi, not sure the scanner model matters: the image looks fine on the screen
21:26<danielssan>lechner: was just pointing it out, as it may help figuring out what went wrong. (you know, rather having too much info than too few)
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21:46<lechner>bremner danielssan: thanks, amended. can you open those files? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995216#10
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21:50<danielssan>lechner: yup, opens fine, but I can see what you mean ^^
21:51<lechner>danielssan: thanks for confirming! i also need new glasses ;)
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21:54<bremner>lechner: yeah, corruption confirmed.
21:56<lechner>bremner: can you open the PDF in LO Draw?
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21:58<bremner>yes. It's not a great scan, but is is basically readable (big gray vertical band)
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21:59<bremner>second page seems much cleaner.
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22:00<lechner>bremner: that could be the page cleaning algorithm. (top left corner) the flyer is much smaller than the scanned area
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22:08<AviC>Hiya, I burned an installation image to my usb but it's not detecting the installation media
22:09<somiaj>how did you burn the iso to a usb?
22:09<dvs>the 'r' word?
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22:10<dvs>what did i say?
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22:28<lechner>i think it suddenly worked
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 28 00:00:57 2021