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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-29

---Logopened Wed Sep 29 00:00:04 2021
---Daychanged Wed Sep 29 2021
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01:04<ice>Hey all, I am trying to get my wireless working on an old EEE PC laptop. It has some kind of RT device, either RT2860 or something similar, but I cannot figure out how to use it.
01:04<ice>I added non-free to my sources.list and installed ralink-firmware package
01:04<ice>but I don't know what to do now
01:06<aloo_shu>might be luckier on the distro channel
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01:08<aloo_shu>ip link list could tell if the interface is seen at all
01:08<danielssan>ice: could you post which device you really have?
01:09<ice>its showing up as enp4s0
01:09<ice>if i type ip link list
01:09<ice>danielssan: I'm a novice user - unsure how to check
01:09<aloo_shu>a classical pitfall is if the netbook has a hardware wifi switch
01:09<sney>enp4s0 is your wired ethernet, if you don't see a wlp* device then the wifi is still not enabled
01:10<ice>I've tried toggling it - the light will light up for a second then turn back off, I'm unsure if/what the hardware switch is doing
01:10<ice>sney: Oh! thanks, hmm, okay so I guess nothing else then
01:10<sney>have you rebooted since installing firmware-ralink?
01:10<ice>just lo, enp4s0, and usb
01:10<ice>which I'm tethering through for internet
01:10<ice>sney: not yet!
01:10<ice>should I try that now
01:10<sney>do that
01:10<ice>cool! brb
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01:12<aloo_shu>oh lol I did't realize this was the distro channel :P thought I was talking on #networking @ libera. gotta get some sleep, I guess
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01:20<ice>Hi, i'm back.. I rebooted after installing firmware-ralink but unfortunately ip link list still just displays enp4s0 and usb
01:21<sney>ice: with the hardware wifi switch on, and whatever fn+fkey thing to enable it etc?
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01:22<ice>I press the FN+F2 and the light will blink on for a second, then immediately turns off
01:22<ice>I don't get it
01:22<ice>it keeps shutting off
01:23<ice>I tried installing something called rfkill , found via some old google suggestions, and 'rfkill unblock wifi' does the same thing - light turns on for merely a second, then off
01:23<sney>if you run 'rfkill' without any options, what does it say
01:24<ice> 0 wlan eeepc-wlan blocked unblocked
01:24<grawity>are there any mentions of it in dmesg? (in particular I think the driver is rt2800pci)
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01:27<ice>I found a small section in dmesg but it's 5 lines of text
01:27<ice>I don't know how to upload it anywhere as I'm not on GUI right now but console
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01:28<ice>topic says no pasting so I don't wanna get booted
01:28<grawity>dmesg | curl -F f:1=@-
01:29<grawity>gives you a URL of it pastebinned
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01:31<ice>wow, what a handy trick.
01:31<ice>the very bottom shows a bunch of stuff successfully loading so i am so confused
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01:34<grawity>it even says you have a "wlp1s0" interface
01:34<ice> is all 'ip link list' displays to me
01:36<grawity>can you see the adapter through `iw phy`, and then through `iw dev`?
01:36<ice>both yield no output
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01:38<grawity>looking at your dmesg, it's like the same PCI device is 1) detected, 2) detected *again*, presumably it just shows up for a second whenever you `rfkill unblock` it but then vanishes on its own
01:39<ice>stupid thing!
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01:40<sney>even though it says it's not hardblocked, you may as well look in the bios, just to see if asus is doing something funny
01:40<grawity>yeah talks about rfkill on EEE being weird
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01:41<grawity>so if you run `rfkill` again, does it just say it's back to "blocked"?
01:41<ice>the BIOS is super super primitive and very few options available unless there's some kind of Expert Mode I need to unlock
01:41<ice>but I can check
01:41<sney>I had a 1000HA, it should still have a few 'yes/no's for the integrated devices
01:41<ice>it rfkill always says SOFT BLOCKED HARD UNBLOCKED
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01:42<ice>I believe this is also a 1000 HA
01:42<grawity>and are you running NetworkManager? try `sudo nmcli radio wifi on`
01:42<ice>definitely 1000 series
01:42<ice>I don't know what NetworkManager is, it's a fresh install
01:42<sney>HA had the atheros wifi nic, not the ralink, though it could have been swapped sometime in the past decade
01:42<ice>ahh, I think I'm 1000H
01:42<ice>says bios
01:42<sney>(if you get your hands on an ath5k nic for it, that one is better anyway)
01:43<ice>grawity: no such command
01:44<sney>network-manager would only be installed along with one of the desktop suites, which would probably be too much for the eee hardware
01:44<ice>Yeah I haven't even attempted anything desktop related yet
01:44<ice>Although Win10 does run on it, dual booting
01:44<ice>excruciatingly slow lol
01:44<sney>ouch I bet
01:46<ice>The literature I can find on Google is just so old and outdated, EEEPC hasn't been talked about since like 2017 and even then it was 7-8 years past it's prime.. Maybe I'll just have to suck it up and buy a nano USB
01:48<sney>true, any usb wifi controller will support much newer 802.11 standards anyway
01:48<grawity>eeeeh, but most of them require garbage from drivers/staging/ or even out-of-tree drivers
01:49<grawity>even the cheap "2.4 GHz 802.11n" ones, surprisingly
01:49<ice>I don't want to have to do it, especially since the tiny small profile Nano adapters all seem to be using some unsupported chipsets as well
01:49<sney>sure, there are drawbacks, but better than won't initialize
01:49<ice>things like Archer T3U which are like $20 bucks Canadian don't seem to be well liked nor supported from my preliminary research
01:49<grawity>tbh this looks like it *does* initialize but some software keeps setting it back to blocked... I wonder why
01:50<sney>the ones that are billed as "raspberry pi compatible" are usually the least headache to get working
01:50<grawity>(does an Eeepc have a pcmcia/cardbus slot?)
01:50<sney>some did
01:50<ice>I'm unsure on that
01:50<twb>wait an actual eee pc? From 2007?
01:50<ice>EEE PC 1000
01:50<twb>Ah 2009
01:50<ice>Thing still is working perfectly that's why I am really hoping to figure out this WLAN problem
01:51<ice>But it looks way beyond my skill set
01:51<grawity>because the rt2800pci-based! cardbus wifi adapter I got for my old Fujitsu laptop has been working amazingly well
01:51<ice>Would there be some kind of support forum or anything I might have some other success?
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01:52<sney>you could always try here again in a different time zone. this is kind of the late shift
01:52<ice>Yeah for sure, it's 2AM here even
01:53<ice>I'll do that I guess, try back in the AM
01:53<ice>appreciate the time and help guys
01:53<danielssan>yeah and it's still too early for europeans ;)
01:53<ice>I'd like to idle here but I gotta disconnect my phone
01:53<grawity>tbh I'd suggest running `iw event -r`
01:53<ice>from the laptop
01:53<grawity>to see what it logs when you try to unblock the card again
01:53<ice>root@eeepc:~# iw event -r
01:53<ice>^@0.000000: phy #4: renamed to phy4
01:53<ice>0.085787: wlan0 (phy #4): new interface type station use 4addr 0
01:53<ice>0.293235: phy #4: del interface type station use 4addr 0
01:53<ice>0.098796: phy #4: delete wiphy
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01:54<sney>womp womp
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01:54<grawity>hmm not as informative as I expected
01:54<ice>oops, shoot
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01:54<ice>thats it though
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02:01<ice>I'll try back in the morning, cheersguys
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02:13<ice>It just keeps getting weirder! So I went into BIOS to check the WIFI and for some bizarre reason it, and bluetooth were set to disabled. I know for a fact I never did that. I re-enabled them, and rebooted the computer, and the wifi light stayed ON this time UNTIL it gets to a stage in the debian bootup process that says LOADING RF KILL SWITCH or something to that effect
02:13<ice>and its at THAT point, the device disappears, and the light turns off
02:14<ice>Upon reboot, in BIOS, it magically is set to disabled again without my will
02:14<grawity>that service just remembers the rfkill status that was set during shutdown
02:14<ice>How can it toggle BIOS settings without even being in BIOS?
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02:15<grawity>parts of the BIOS are always available
02:15<grawity>like it's not contained to just the settings screen
02:16<grawity>e.g. when the driver handles `rfkill unblock` it calls some ACPI function which is technically kinda part of the firmware, and it could do various stuff
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02:16<mjt>it is one switch, most likely in the wifi card itself, which is displayed in the bios and which is toggled by the rfkill thing and by a wifi key on the keyboard
02:16<grawity>can you try 1) re-enabling it in BIOS settings again, and then 2) adding systemd.restore_state=0 to your kernel command line in GRUB?
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02:18<mjt>what does systemd.restore_state do? I mean, is everything honours this switch now when setting state, or is it systemd who calls various things when it is set to 1?
02:18<ice>definitely, i'll report back soon as i get a chance, gotta see if i can stick this out any later , its super late here... much appreciated
02:18<ice>maybe that will stop it from running the stupid RFKILL command
02:18<ice>as it seems to toggle the device off and won't come back on
02:18<ice>but until it runs that command, it stays on no problem
02:19<grawity>mjt: it tells systemd-rfkill.service to not apply the stored rfkill state from /var/lib
02:19<grawity>mjt: because apparently, `rfkill unblock` doesn't last and *something* immediately soft-blocks the wifi card again, so naturally on shutdown systemd-rfkill stores the state as "blocked"
02:20<mjt>it isn't only rfkill I guess who looks at this command line
02:20<grawity>well, rfkill and backlight
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02:21<mjt>the name (restore_state) sounds more global than that :)
02:21<grawity>there aren't any other services that'd handle it
02:21<grawity>I checked
02:21<mjt>heh. I see
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02:21<grawity>you could mask systemd-rfkill.service if you prefer, whether through systemd.mask= or `systemctl`
02:22<mjt>it's interesting that my laptop does not have rfkil installed in the first place
02:23<mjt>and the wifi key on the keyboard is working, it seems.. I wonder how it works
02:23<grawity>by not using /usr/bin/rfkill to do the job
02:24<grawity>either it's handled in firmware, or by some other program that directly speaks the right netlink messages... like how systemd-rfkill.service just talks netlink directly, it doesn't spawn `rfkill unblock` every time
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02:35<mjt>yeah it looks like it's done this way using systemd-rfkill
02:35<mjt>yet another thing eaten by systemd ;)
02:35<mjt>will there be systemd-ls soon? :)
02:36<twb>→ Overall exposure level for systemd-rfkill.service: 9.4 UNSAFE 😨
02:36<twb>FWEEP FWOOP
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02:49<tjcarter>next version of systemd will feature systemd-complaind to automate complaints about systemd
02:50<tjcarter>where was the guy asking about lea… ah, wrong network. (And I think wrong version of leaf for him.)
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03:15<oztunan>Anyone familiar with using libdvd-pkg on buster?
03:16<oztunan>I installed it through apt with contrib and nonfree enabled
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03:16<oztunan>I can't seem to get a dvd to play
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03:18<oztunan>omg, is buster oldstable now?
03:19<Sebastinas>It is.
03:19<Sebastinas>In any case, a verbose log from the player would be a good start
03:20<oztunan>wow, ok
03:20<oztunan>What a year.
03:20<tomg>oztunan, i think i've installed it, but i don't remember testing if it worked
03:22<tjcarter>it works here
03:22<tjcarter>assuming the dvd player uses the right library to do its DVD reading
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03:24<oztunan>This is one line, so I hope it's ok....
03:24<oztunan>[00007fe8b4003ff0] dvdnav demux warning: cannot get next block (Error reading NAV packet.)
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03:26<Sebastinas>If you run vlc with -vvv it should give some more detailed information.
03:26<tjcarter>that seems like a different error
03:28<Sebastinas>I guess it's either a scratched or otherwise broken disc or libdvdcss failing.
03:29<oztunan>Tried another disk, also with -vvv. Same error.
03:29<oztunan>Maybe it's the drive.
03:30<oztunan>Thanks, so far. at least I know it works for other people.
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03:30<Sebastinas>The log should tell you which it is.
03:31<oztunan>The only thing from the log that is usable is the block error.
03:32<oztunan>The rest is the program abandoning the play.
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03:33<oztunan>I'm reading some forum about the error.
03:34<oztunan>May have something to do with double layer discs
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03:41<mjt>it's been some.. 10 years? more? since I touched any optical media for the last time...
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03:42<mjt>I still do have a dvd drive in my pc - took it from my old box and inserted into new when rebuilding it. But I've no idea if it works or not :)
03:47<oztunan>Most of the forum posts about dvds are 2016 at the latest lol
03:47<oztunan>mostly 2007 or so
03:47<fernie>did you do dpkg-reconfigure libdvd-pkg after installing it, which actually installs libdvdcss2? anyway, yeah usb optical drive here if ever need, not every year, so idk about if it works atm
03:48<oztunan>I think it might have to do with my hardware, but I'll keep trying, if it doesn't take too much more work.
03:48<oztunan>It's Chinese.
03:50<oztunan>Dude! that worked!
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03:50<oztunan>I considered that, but the screen said it would only need to on updates.
03:52*oztunan watches Demolition Man on Debian Buster
03:52<oztunan>thanks fernie
03:54<oztunan>I only commented on my hardware being Chinese because of DVD regions and such. idk
03:54<oztunan>It's a Lenovo.
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03:56<twb>oztunan: I bought two android tablets recently. The Chinese one talks to The Australian one talks to ^_^
03:57<oztunan>Don't even get me started on Australia.
03:58<oztunan>(the oz in my name isn't for Australia either)
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03:59<twb>oztunan: I know a little about libdvd-pkg. I know that the DVD *drive* can be region-locked, and this is entirely separate from disc encryption (what libdvdcss decrypts)
04:00<twb>oztunan: but only expensive DVD readers are region-locked by default. Every unit I've seen for a long time defaulted to "not locked"
04:00<twb>Let me see if I can find my notes...
04:01<twb>OK "apt show regionset"
04:01<twb>You can use that to query it
04:01<oztunan>I've been using optical drives up until the last couple years, then started finally using USB for linux installs and stuff.
04:01<twb>Note that once you set it to anthing except "not locked", you can't set it BACK to "not locked"
04:01<oztunan>I love optical.
04:02<twb>I think there's also a limit of like 16 changes before the drive is bricked
04:02<twb>It's part of Hollywood's artificial scarcity corruption
04:03<oztunan>Wow, I read about this years ago.
04:03<twb>BD is much worse obviously
04:03<oztunan>I never got too much into DVD copying and stuff.
04:03<twb>But nobody has to care anymore because optical is dead now people have halfway decent wifi
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04:04<oztunan>I did, however, make my own dvds and vcds from tv recordings for some years.
04:04<oztunan>But, the internet goes down, and buffers.
04:04<oztunan>And you have to pay bills.
04:05<twb>oztunan: you could just leave the videos on your NAS >shrug<
04:05<twb>oztunan: anyway. For your *own* DVDs, dvdcss is not needed, and region lock is irrelevnt
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04:05<twb>Those things only matter for hollywood DVDs
04:05<oztunan>It's all interesting anyway.
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04:05<oztunan>I like authentic things.
04:06<oztunan>Who else has an official copy of Demolition Man on DVD?
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04:08<oztunan>..and took the time to make it play on debian/
04:09<mangix>oztunan: love that movie, despite how cheesy it is
04:09<oztunan>I just wanted to see if I could make it work.
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04:10<oztunan>..when it didn't work, then I was determined.
04:10<twb>I only have Mad Max 1 and 2 within reach. I use them to make sure detainees can watch DVDs.
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04:11<oztunan>Mad Max is one that I want to watch again. Haven't seen that since I was young.
04:11<oztunan>I didn't even know there was a sequel.
04:12<twb>oztunan: the sequels are shit
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04:12<twb>oztunan: you should watch The Cars that Ate Paris, Italian Spider-Man, and Danger 5
04:12*twb stops the off-topicness
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04:21<oztunan>Ah, other Australian films
04:22<oztunan>I know what's his name is Australian. A lot of Americans don't know that.
04:22<oztunan>It's hard to tell.
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04:22<oztunan>Sorry, I'm bad with names.. Mad Max.
04:23<wyre>hi guys, where should I set module params? in /etc/modules or in /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf?
04:23<danielssan>just to add, I still love optical media, i just hate those pay money for renting stuff
04:24<oztunan>Mal Gibson. I can't believe that movie was done in 1979.
04:24<danielssan>wyre: i normally set them in modules-load.d as it's getting loaded through systemd
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04:30<wyre>apparently it's not working
04:31<wyre>I've set 'nf_conntrack_sip sip_external_media=1' and rebooted the system but it still has a 0
04:31<wyre>why is this?
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04:33<danielssan>wyre: because that's something you do in sysctl, not modules
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04:55<wyre>danielssan, in /etc/sysctl.conf ?
04:56<danielssan>yes, but it's recommended to just create a file in /etc/sysctl.d/
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04:59<wyre>danielssan, but the syntax in sysctl is different I cannot use just 'nf_conntrack_sip sip_external_media=1'
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05:01<wyre>could I use something like 'net.netfilter.nf_conntrack_sip.sip_external_media=1'?
05:06<danielssan>wyre: trying to setup sip?
05:06<wyre>danielssan, sure
05:06<danielssan>if yes sorry, this is really a module :/
05:06<danielssan>so is nf_conntrack_sip loaded?
05:06<wyre>danielssan, sure
05:06<wyre>lsmod shows it's loaded
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05:08<wyre>danielssan, so ... how is the syntax?
05:09<danielssan>hm edit /etc/modprobe.d/conntrack.conf (or whatever you want to call the file) with "options nf_conntrack_sip sip_external_media=1"
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05:28<wyre>danielssan, I'm confused, why did you suggest then before to use a file in /etc/sysctl.d/?
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05:28<danielssan>wyre: because it's basically the same syntax, that's why I thought it was a sysctl config thing.
05:32<wyre>danielssan, do you know something about SIP? 🤔
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05:33<nickme>I would like to remove some packages from the default installation. But when it comes to apt autoremove --purge task-* I want apt to exclude task-xfce-desktop. Is that possible?
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05:36<mkf>Hi, is there any quick start for creating debina packages?
05:36<dpkg>The packaging tutorial ( and the New Maintainer's Guide ( are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>.
05:36<danielssan>wyre: what does that have to do with SIP?
05:37<wyre>danielssan, nothing, I was just curious
05:37<mkf>thanks danielssan!
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06:28<nickme>When I remove task-chinese-s-desktop goldendict will also be removed. When I install goldendict again, task-chinese-s-desktop doesn't comes with it.
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06:40<jmux>Was lately changed not to accept patches / diffs? Whatever I try, I get "do not spam"... Or is there a size limit (patch has 160 lines)?
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06:58<CuZnDragon>Hello, upgraded two laptops from 10 to 11 and now both have the esc keys mapped to toggling microphone mute and can't get the system to pass the esc key to any application.
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07:03<nickme>CuZnDragon, Dist upgrading causes problems mostly imo, just make a new clean install
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07:04<rudi_s>CuZnDragon: Ignore nickme. Upgrades work just fine most of the time. It's most likely not the upgrade itself but the new version in 11.
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07:05<CuZnDragon>I am using KDE instead of Gnome on these systems.
07:05<rudi_s>It could be an ACPI issue. Do you see the key with xev?
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07:06<CuZnDragon>Would have to check when I get into work later today.
07:07<rudi_s>If you see the key in xev then it's a mapping issue in KDE. If you don't then the key isn't passed to the OS and it's maybe ACPI or a firmware setting.
07:11<sussudio>!multimedia keys
07:11<dpkg>Multimedia keys are the special keyboard keys for doing such things as changing the volume or launching your web browser. Check to see if these keys generate a scan code using xev and set the keyboard layout correctly or assign them to a shortcut with xmodmap, systemsettings, gnome-control-panel etc. See also <pbbuttons>, <tpb>. See
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07:14<rudi_s>CuZnDragon: ^
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07:16<CuZnDragon>When I do the fn + microphone key it doesn't toggle the microphone but passes the esc sequence to the applications.
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07:18<CuZnDragon>putty is the application
07:19<mkf>maybe you have enabled fnlock?
07:26<CuZnDragon>I am not even sure how to do that.
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07:39<orma>is it possible to install websites as apps in firefox?
07:39<danielssan>orma: no as mozilla removed that feature
07:43<orma>will CVE-2021-37973, CVE-2021-30632 and CVE-2021-30633 in the chromium package be fixed or should I stop using chromium??
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07:57<bremner>what version of chromium are they fixed in?
07:58<orma>bremner: for CVE-2021-37973 it's version 94.0.4606.61
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07:59<orma>for CVE-2021-30632 and CVE-2021-30633 version 93.0.4577.82
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08:17<bremner>so the latter version is already in testing and unstable. 94 is not in debian yet.
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08:18<bremner>I guess someone in #debian-security might no more about those CVEs.
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08:19<qqq>once again, thanks for letting anyone use IRC, unlike the dreadful version on Libera (former Freenode)
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08:20<qqq>question: when I have disk with a mirror of debian apt repository, created with `ftpsync`, then how to tell my apt to use these files on /mnt/deb/mirror/ ? do I have to run apache server and connect apt to, or use file:/// or what?
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08:30<dreamer>hmz, wicd-curses broke during bullseye upgrade (still working on a fix), so now there is only nmtui however this doesn't support PEAP-mschapv2 so pretty useless -_-
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08:39<grawity>nmcli con add type wifi ifname "wlan0" ssid "eduroam" wifi-sec.key-mgmt "wpa-eap" 802-1x.identity "" 802-1x.password "fluttershy" 802-1x.system-ca-certs "yes" 802-1x.domain-suffix-match "" 802-1x.eap "peap" 802-1x.phase2-auth "mschapv2"
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08:49<dreamer>yeah that's not usable :)
08:49<dreamer>how would I ever remember a line like that?
08:49*dreamer needs to look at py2->py3 wicd-curses
08:49<dreamer>it's really just a few minor things that aren't working
08:49<dreamer>well "minor"
08:49<dreamer>ui and editing works
08:50<dreamer>er wait no, I already made some mods to this one
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09:32<johnch>is it possible to boot a VM from aphysical partition please? I had a serach online but so far the examples I have found don't seem to quite match the virt manager (2.2.1 on Mint) I have running
09:33<johnch>my couple of attempts so far have failed with an unable to boot message
09:35<petn-randall>johnch: You'll have to ask the Mint support, this support is for Debian.
09:35<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
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09:35<johnch>sorry, wrong channel. I though I was typing in virt
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10:00<qqq>while doing apt-get upgrade, it warns pukeys are unknown (upgrade 8 to 9 debian). how to get proper keys?>
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10:03<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
10:03<petn-randall>qqq: Can you provide all of the above? ^^^
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10:04<petn-randall>qqq: You may skip #2, but please provide #1 and #3.
10:04<qqq>petn-randall: no internet on that box
10:04<qqq>there was command, or package like apt-key
10:05<qqq>I think there was package that you installed to make apt see keys used to sign deb9 (and it existed in deb8) or something like that, what was the name?
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10:07<petn-randall>qqq: How are you upgrading the machine then?
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10:08<qqq>petn-randall: normally, from mounted mirror of debian repository
10:08<qqq>created with ftpsync
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10:10<qqq>`apt-get update` results in `W: There is no public key available for the following key IDs: 648ACFD622F3D138`
10:10<qqq>I am currently on debian 8 there
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10:11<petn-randall>qqq: Did you update to the latest jessie release before upgrading?
10:12<qqq>petn-randall: yes, that worked
10:12<qqq>(and rebooted)
10:12<qqq>that worked from same mounted files mirrored with ftpsync
10:13<petn-randall>qqq: That should have provided you with the key for jessie+1. It should be in the package debian-archive-keyring.
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10:13<qqq>petn-randall: how to make sure any things I try now with apt will NOT install anything that was not properly signed?
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10:14<qqq>e.g. I can now upgrade that package debian-archive-keyring (which is expected since it wants now to take deb9 version of it, I guess), but I am not certain is apt willing to install packages it did not verify (because missing apt key as the warning above)
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10:15<nicknam__>hello, I am trying to run lxc-create, but I get a error when trying to fetch GPG key from server.
10:15<gwalenn>hi, how i can downgrade inkscape 1.* to inkscape 0.92 in Bullseye
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10:16<qqq>also, debian-archive-keyring is now on version 2017.5~deb8u1 - is this the newest version of it in Jessie?
10:16<qqq>gwalenn: btw, is Inkscape broken in Bullseye? just curious
10:20<gwalenn>qqq, not broken but buggy with my tablet via digimend.
10:22<imMute>qqq: note that jessie is not on that list. it's been removed from the main archive because it's oldoldoldstable at this point.
10:23<qqq>imMute: oldoldold indeed :P
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10:24<qqq>desu it's sad is not tracking all versions since debian 1. or at least since version that was while that package website was created...
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10:24*qqq suggest to name them like old5 instead oldoldoldoldold
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10:27<nicknam__>lxc question
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10:32<bremner>nicknam__: what is your error message? Use to show us what you see
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10:37<bremner>hah. not much more there than you said before.
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10:39<bremner>nvm, just remarking the error message is not very helpful
10:39<bremner>I guess you need some lxc expertise, which is not me
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10:45<grove>nicknam__: I haven't tried lxc on a box upgraded to Bullseye yet, but on Buster I saw that error message. There is a workaround in, I didn't realise that specifying it in the environment (or on the command line) would work, so I edited /usr/share/lxc/templates/lxc-download
10:45<judd>Bug in lxc (open): «lxc-create fails GPG checkserver due to keyserver depreciation»; severity: important; opened: 2021-09-08; last modified: 2021-09-08.
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10:47<grove>That bug report doesn't list any working keyserver, I've used hkp://, afterwards I believe I've seen somewhere that a better choice exists
10:48<nicknam__>omg thank you so much grove, you made my day! :D
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11:06<imMute>qqq: it tracks all packages available in the official main repos. if you want older releases you have to use something like or
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11:29<ejohb>Hi friends anyone knows if I install games from the repository where will they be installed, also can I do a symlink so that I can install games somewhere else? I don't want to fill up my root partition with games, want to symlink to other device
11:30<sussudio>we're not your friends, guy
11:31<ejohb>hey sussudio its just a greeting :-) but I hope I make some friends here :-)
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11:32<petn-randall>ejohb: sussudio was quoting a joke from South Park. ;)
11:33<petn-randall>ejohb: You can either increase the size of your root partition, or mount another filesystem to wherever you like and move the data over, e.g. have /usr/ on another partition.
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11:34<ejohb>petn-randall, yeah I knew it was a joke hehehe, so the games will be installed in the same folder as the other programs or is there one just for games, guess I can just install a small one and check it out, thanks friend :-)
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11:35<ejohb>I came from windows so I have still a hard time navigating in the gnu/linux directories
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11:37<sussudio>well, there's /usr/games
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11:38<sussudio>it has console tetris.
11:38<Sqrt{not}>ejohb, you can look at the file list of a game, if you know the package name, like this:
11:39<cusco>cd webpack
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11:47<ejohb>thanks sussudio and Sqrt{not} I will check it out
11:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 991] by debhelper
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11:52<alex11>at least you don't call them 'folders' like i'm still prone to do sometimes
11:53<petn-randall>[sudo] password for cusco:
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11:56<ejohb>alex11, everything is a file right :-)
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11:59<qqq>where can I confirm (cryptographically) whether 648ACFD622F3D138 is the proper debian signing key that is/was used for debian 9 apt?
12:01<imMute>find the debian-archive-keyring used in debian 9 on, extract it somewhere, check the gpg keyring contained for that key ?
12:02<imMute>heh, that's faster.
12:02<ansgar>Or just ignore the warning from apt.
12:03<qqq>ansgar: how about not ignoring security warnings
12:03<danielssan>which is the worst choice out of the 2 ;)
12:03<ansgar>qqq: It's not a security warning.
12:04<qqq>ansgar: the way it's phrased doesn't seem that way; what does it signify then?
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12:04<ansgar>qqq: That apt doesn't know a key that has signed Release. That is not a problem if there are other keys that have signed the file that apt knows about.
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12:05<qqq>ansgar: how to verify whether all files are signed by at least one known&trusted apt/gpg key?
12:06<sussudio>qqq: debsums?
12:06<ansgar>qqq: apt will complain if they are not.
12:06<qqq>sussudio: no I mean about files that apt upgrade/install/etc is about to install/etc
12:06<danielssan>ahh that's why even deb11 has keys for deb9?
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12:07<qqq>ansgar: how does it complain in such case? and what users must do before it installs unsafe package (so that I can avoid that happening)
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12:12<imMute>qqq: the way apt is designed, only the top level Releases file is signed. all the package indexes and packages themselves are merely checksummed (but they're still indirectly signed by that first signature)
12:12<imMute>qqq: if that top level signature is not trusted, apt won't let you install packages from that repo
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12:16<ansgar>qqq: Just try `apt-get -oDir::Etc::trusted=no-trusted.gpg -oDir::Etc::trustedparts=no-trusted.gpg.d update`
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12:40<ice>I managed to get the WiFi device on my EEE PC to stay on after boot by finding some old forum posts telling me to blacklist rt2xx and rt2xxpci while adding a couple commands as well to /etc/modules. Now I can boot into the system, press FN+F2 to turn the wifi on, and the light stays on. rfkill list shows eeepc-wlan and both soft blocked & hard blocked set to NO
12:40<ice>yet I cannot find any typem of wireless device when i type 'ip link list'
12:40<ice>its just lo and enp4s0
12:41<ice>Also it shows up in lspci now. It says it's an RT2790
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12:43<mjt>so based on some random forum post you disabled the driver for your device and now wonder why it doesn't work? :)
12:43<ice>Not at all.. it's to blacklist rt2xxpci and rt2800pci while adding rt2860sta and rt2860 to modules
12:44<ice>it's the only thing that's even gotten me to the stage where soft blocked & hard blocked are NO
12:44<ice>and the wireless device stays on
12:44<ice>it was never working to begin with! that's what i'm here to try and get help with!
12:44<mjt>well. you obviously know better :)
12:45<mjt>out of curiocity, which device is that? the wifi that is?
12:45<mjt>lspci | grep -i wireless
12:45<ice>It's an EEE PC 1000, a very old laptop I am trying to install debian onto but cannot get the wifi to work
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12:45<mjt>or maybe | grep -i wifi
12:46<ice>Ralink Corp. RT2790 Wireless 802.11n 1T/2R PCIe
12:47<mjt>yeah, just like I said
12:47<mjt>the only driver for this device is rt2800pci
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12:52<mjt>(but don't listen to me, it's better to follow some random posts)
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12:52<ice>I just tried loading the rt2800pci again and rebooting, doesn't work for the card, same problem - boots into a soft blocked state
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12:52<ice>and I am unable to get it out.. I press FN+F2 and the light turns on for a moment, but then off again
12:53<ice>The only way I've even been able to keep the device on after pressing FN+F2 was when I did that blacklisting.. I just have no idea what to do now
12:53<SiO2>are ther acvtually problems with nvidia 390 and testing tree? i dont get any xorg login
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12:59<danielssan>SiO2: for testing use #debian-next
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13:11<Sqrt{not}>ice, from the dmesg you posted before, rt2800pci enabled your device and loaded its firmware. What does dmesg look like with your new replacement modules?
13:13<ice>Here's where I'm currently at! The wireless device is ON and the system fully boots up with the light ON now so I feel some kind of progress is being made
13:14<ice>also the card was totally absent from 'lspci' when the light was off, now it shows up
13:14<mjt>it's not in dmesg. It's in journalctl. It complains about not being able to find rt2860sta and rt2860 modules
13:14<ice>shoot I can't recall that dmesg command he had my type yesterday where it uploads the log
13:15<danielssan>ice it was dmesg | curl -F f:1=@-
13:16<ice>awesome, i just held down the "up" arrow in my bash and it found it too luckily, thank you
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13:17<ice> is my lspci
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13:24<mjt>does anyone know how to stop - linux kernel? systemd? agetty? from turning on the numlock key? When the PC boots its numlock is off, but once getty appears on the tty it turns numlock on..
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13:27<mjt>the 'net has tons of suggestions of various quality about how to turn numlock ON. For me, I need the system to keep it as it is, not touching it.
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13:43<ice>I made a post on the debian user forums looking for more advice, are they very active?
13:43<ice>Ubuntu Forums seems to have a lot of discussion in the past about it, but I guess I can't post there if I'm using Debian?
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13:56<qqq>imMute: ansgar: so then the warning means that there are additional signatures, and that one 1 extra signature signer is not recognized? I wonder tho what is this key anywa, I do not see on any key 648ACFD622F3D138
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13:57<sney>ice: the forums are sort of unofficial, I'm not sure how active they are. you could also try the debian-user mailing list,
13:57<sney>dpkg: debian-user
13:57<dpkg>debian-user is a <mailing list> for on which users of Debian can seek help from other users. List address: Archives: . Also available through <NNTP> from
13:59<ansgar>qqq: Yes, see also And if you want to find the key with that id, you need to follow the link to the key announcements (it is a subkey).
13:59<judd>Bug in apt (closed, patch): «apt: Please downgrade "There is no public key available ..." to a notice»; severity: minor; opened: 2011-03-15; last modified: 2016-06-14.
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14:06<ice>I posted to the Debian forums, and also the Debian section on UbuntuForums
14:07<ice>I must be close if lspci is showing the device, the light is fully on
14:07<ice>Why would that stuff all be OK but no wireless devices in 'ip link list' ?
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14:08<Sqrt{not}>ice, what are you using to manage that device? I think earlier someone suggested you could install network manager, and use its tools to monitor and investigate your interface
14:09<tp43_>I am trying to install a program that require python-git, but the name has changed to python3-git so it is not working. Can I create a sym link?
14:09<mjt>Sqrt{not}: if the network device does not exist it does't matter which tool do you use to manage it :)
14:09<ice>I did install network manager indeed
14:10<ice>It just shows the same two devices though, lo and enp4s0
14:10<ice>nothing wireless!
14:10<bremner>tp43_: best is if whoever made that program fixes it
14:10<imMute>ice: probably missing wifi firmware
14:10<bremner>tp43_: or just install it from source, the python module names are still the same
14:10<tp43_>bremner, yeah of course but fat chance. You know who software industry goes. Bunch of spoiled brats. No accountability. Do what ever they want.
14:10<mjt>imMute: the fw is here. He disabled the driver for it
14:11<ice>I've experimented with the rt2800pci by blacklisting the other stuff and it doesn't work unfortunately
14:11<ice>No, he keeps repeating that line, but it's only because it doesn't work
14:11<bremner>tp43_: you might want !equivs
14:11<ice>The device will not stay on using rt2800pci, I'm sorry to tell you
14:11<dpkg>equivs is a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>. A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs, ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>.
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14:13<ice>however when I blacklist rt2800pci and use the rt2860sta, it now shows up in lspci and the light also stays on the front of the netbook. two things that both do not happen with rt2800pci!
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14:13<mjt>there's no module rt2860sta, you can not use it ;))
14:13<Sqrt{not}>mjt, ice, indeed the new dmesg does not show any kernel module dealing with the wireless device.
14:13<mjt>the system just complains somewhere that it can't find the module
14:14<tp43_>bremner, install python-git from source? or the program that needs it I mentioned?
14:14<mjt>gosh. it is ridiculous
14:14<tp43_>So I cant just create a symlink from python-git to python3-git?
14:14<ice>I'm not sure, but if I add that line to /etc/modules while blacklisting rt2800pci in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf , the device seems to partially work
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14:14<mjt>we can suggest a ton of other stuff to try.. and edit /etc/modules and blacklist.conf ad infinitum. But it will not work
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14:15<mjt>because the ONLY module in kernel which can deal with this device is rt2800pci
14:15<Sqrt{not}>ice, now that you have network manager, you should go back to the correct kernel module and firmware, that were working in your earlier dmesg, and see if you can status it or activate it with network manager
14:15<tp43_>I think equivs is more advanced than my skillset. I do not know much about packaging apps into deb format
14:16<ice>if rt2800pci is not added to blacklist, it will not even show up under lspci, the fn+f2 combination doesn't work, and the light on the netbook never turns on
14:16<mjt>next we can try some other random forum post and try to compile some random old ralink-related git tree and try to load _that_ instead of debian kernel.. :)
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14:16<ice>I know you keep blaming the random forum post but the guy seems helpful and knowledgeable about a similar situation - not sure what the harm is in referring to forum posts - it's not a personal slight or something
14:17<ice>isn't it possible you're slightly unsure even ?
14:17<mjt>i keep blaming you not forums
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14:17<imMute>ice: PCI devices should show up in lspci regardless of whether a driver for it is available or not. if it doesn't show up, then something else is wrong (probably hardware related)
14:17<Sqrt{not}>ice, never mind the light, what does network manager say about the device with this new module, and with the old module?
14:17<mjt>imMute: it is not shown in lspci when it is disabled
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14:17<imMute>mjt: when *what* is disabled?
14:17<ice>mjt: You're acting as if I haven't been trying the rt2800pci or something. Why are you blaming me when I'm trying literally everything you've said?
14:17<mjt>Sqrt{not}: which NEW module do you mean? :)
14:18<ice>you're like getting upset at the notion that it's something other than you're suggesting, i don't get it
14:18<mjt>Sqrt{not}: ice is trying to load a NON-EXISTING module :)
14:19<ice>imMute: In this case, if I boot without rt2800pci blacklisted it wont show up in lspci at all. At a part in the bootup process, the light will turn off
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14:19<mjt>ice: because the only way to go forward is to figure out why the ONLY available driver does not work. Instead of trying something else which *definitely* doesn't work
14:19<ice>I think when it issues rfkill
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14:19<ice>Sqrt{not}: It just displays lo and enp4s0 , nothing wireless related
14:19<imMute>ice: what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter whether the driver is blacklisted or not. lspci shows PCI devices on the bus, independently of any drivers for them that may or may not be loaded
14:19<tp43_>I have python3-git installed but I can not find it in /usr/bin/ Other python stuff is there.
14:19<ice>unless there's a command I can issue to try and bring a device up?
14:19<simonpatapon>la banque veux me passer 7k
14:20<simonpatapon>sorry wrong chan
14:20<Sqrt{not}>ice, "It just displays lo and enp4s0 , nothing wireless related" is this with the proper module loaded? rt2800pci ?
14:20<imMute>ice: so the device not showing up (regardless of what else you're doing) indicates that the device is not seen on the PCI bus at all, usually means the device is not powered on or or not connected or something is broken
14:20<ice>imMute: I'm really unsure - just a novice user here.. But that's strange indeed. lspci will not show it if I do not make any modifications
14:20<ice>What I will do is literally undo the blacklist changes right now and reboot it
14:21<mjt>ice: and /etc/modules too
14:21<imMute>ice: correlation is not causation. also a sample size of 1 is pretty useless.
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14:21<mjt>ice: you _can_ blacklist it just to try to load it manually
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14:21<Sqrt{not}>ice, ignore lspci for just a minute, and please try nmcli with the device actually activeted by rt2800pci
14:22<mjt>as far as i can see, once the actual driver tries to initialise the device, the device itself goes off the pci bus
14:22<mjt>so once he blacklisted the actual driver the device finally stays
14:22<ice>I just renamed the blacklist.conf file to .old and # the two lines in modules, so this should be just back to thr rt2800pci now. but I have done this routine over 50 times in the last day - at the bootup stage the light will turn off when it issues the RFKILL command
14:22<ice>there it goes, it's off
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14:22<mjt>so disable the rfkill for now
14:23<imMute>mjt: that sounds like a broken device. or a bad driver that is causing the device to misbehave
14:23<Sqrt{not}>ice, what does nmcli say? what does dmesg | grep rt2800pci say?
14:23<mjt>imMute: indeed something's broken
14:23<ice>mjt: I'd love to try that - how do I go about that?
14:23<ice>I'll also need to now go back into BIOS and enable wlan
14:23<ice>as this stage breaks it inside bios as well
14:23<ice>sets it back to disable
14:24<mjt>systemd.restore_state=0 for one, -- does the device exists with that one?
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14:24<mjt>is the rfkill called as systemd-rfkill or separate rfkill package?
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14:25<ice>current dmesg is
14:25<ice>it shows rt2800pci in there
14:25<ice>renaming from wlan0 it says or something
14:26<mjt>the pre-last 2 lines are most important there
14:26<mjt>also this: "rt2800pci 0000:01:00.0: enabling device (0000 -> 0002)" - this means the device has been DISabled
14:27<ice>I can see the lines of text whizzing by at bootup and it dies at the RFKILL stage
14:27<ice>it stays something about RFKILL switch
14:27<ice>i cant see it perfectly
14:27<ice>its too quick
14:27<Sqrt{not}>ice, read the dmesg you posted then.
14:27<Sqrt{not}> 17.970617] rt2800pci 0000:01:00.0 wlp1s0: renamed from wlan0
14:27<mjt>it dies at the RFKILL stage?
14:28<Sqrt{not}>so now you have an actual named network interface on the device, see what you can find, what you can do, with nmcli
14:28<mjt>what do you mean "dies" ?
14:28<ice>yeah like when debian is starting, it shows a bunch of diagnostics
14:28<ice>like [OK] ENABLING RFKILL
14:28<ice>thats exactly when the netbook light dies out
14:28<ice>switches off
14:28<mjt>is it in all caps?
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14:29<ice>It flies by too quick I haven't been able to see it perfectly, the window wipes afterwards when the WM starts
14:29<ice>it's something about activating RFKILL
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14:29<ice>i know for sure it says rfkill
14:29<mjt>ah.. the DEVICE dies. I thought it is the box who dies
14:29<ice>yes sorry the wireless device
14:29<mjt>ice: do you have rfkill device installed?
14:30<mjt>not device :)
14:30<mjt>do you have rfkill PACKAGE installed? :)
14:30<ice>I'm not sure what that is sorry - i did an apt-get install rfkill though as the command did not exist on my system!
14:30<ice>yes sir!
14:30<ice>or maam! sorry
14:30<mjt>it doesn't matter
14:30<mjt>please remove it
14:30<mjt>at least for now
14:31<ice>I, uh, don't know how to do that, haha
14:31<mjt>since we have 2 rfkills now
14:31<ice>I'm guessing an apt command
14:31<ice>one sec let me google
14:31<mjt>apt remove rfkill
14:31<nmschulte>Anyone know (of a guide, or direction) how to build ffmpeg package with newer sources; build ffmpeg in Debian style? I can successfully build ffmpeg and install to e.g. /usr/local, but I want to re-use the same build config as Debian's official, and enable shared library / package deps tracing too (e..g build _other_ packages dep. on these newer vers).
14:31<bremner>nmschulte: ,ssb
14:31<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
14:31<bremner>so many bots
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14:32<mjt>ice: now, once one out of two rfkills is uninstalled, please - temporarily - disable systemd-rfkill.service too. We can re-enable it later
14:32<ice>Sqrt{not}: sorry just to followup - the device doesn't seem to exist anymore once i get to the nmcli stage
14:32<mjt>ice: systemctl mask systemd-rfkill.service
14:33<mjt>ice: this will disable rfkill entirely
14:33<ice>created symlink to /dev/null it says
14:33<mjt>and reboot, re-enabling your wifi in bios - is it necessary after it is turned off?
14:33<mjt>to re-enable, systemctl unmask ..
14:34<ice>it's necessary after this yeah, the rfkill stage on bootup when the light shuts off seems to also disable it directly in bios as well
14:34<ice>i'll try now! one sec! thank you!
14:34<nmschulte>bremner: looking thanks.
14:34<mjt>so now rfkill itself should not interfere
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14:35<mjt>I'm assuming the wifi actually works at bootup but it is somehow killed for good (up to disappearing from the pci bus) by rfkill. if this is not the case we'll see now..
14:36<ice>DAMN it, it was looking good, it showed FAILED at the RFKILL stage this time in red, definitely new, and the light stayed on past there. but then it crapped out at a further stage and I'm not sure where as it's the first time I've looked at this section of the bootup stage
14:36<ice>and then of course the WM wipes the screen
14:36<mjt>it is red on a purpose
14:36<ice>and I can't see what it says
14:36<mjt>journalctl -b0 and scroll to the end
14:37<nmschulte>bremner: what is ssb?
14:37<mjt>ice: the red is because we disabled (masked) the actual rfkill and something wants to run it. it is harmless warning
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14:37<ice>yeah for sure, i am just mentioning that it definitely worked
14:38<ice>i wish i could figure out what the heck happened afterwards, gonna look at that journalctl now
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14:39<mjt>ice: you can search the string 'rfkill' in there. Press "/" and type "rfkill" - it will find the first occurence. Press "n" for next one.
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14:40<mjt>ice: it is not the string itself which we're searching it is the point from which you can't see stuff :)
14:40<ice>it's all pretty beyond my knowledge, but looks like a lot of info in there
14:40<ice>maybe i should post those logs too ?
14:40<mjt>well. *hopefully* there's nothing very sensitive in there :)
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14:41<bremner>nmschulte: ssb is trigger for the bot. See what dpkg wrote above
14:41<ice>i dont think there would be, i didn't input any kind of personal info upon setup
14:41<mjt>(it's the same command as for dmesg but journalctl -b0 instead of dmesg
14:41<ice>worst case my IP address which already shows here
14:41<mjt>but now, do you have the wifi network interface?
14:41<mjt>and is it shown by lspci?
14:42<mjt>is the light on your wifi on now?
14:42<ice>no to both sadly :( the light shut off at some stage past the usual stage during bootup
14:42<ice>it's not :(
14:42<ice>i've tried FN+F2 as well, no luck, turns on momentarily then off again
14:43<ice> is the log file
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14:44<ice>looks like tons of complaining about wireless stuff
14:44<ice>i dont know how to decipher it
14:44<mjt>gimme a minute
14:44<mjt>lovely. Sep 29 14:37:32 eeepc systemd-udevd[705]: wlan0: Failed to rename network interface 8 from 'wlan0' to 'wlp1s0': Device or resource busy
14:44<ice>of course! thank you very, very much
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14:46<mjt>Sep 29 14:37:32 eeepc NetworkManager[362]: <info> [1632940652.8818] device (wlan0): state change: unavailable -> unmanaged (reason 'removed', sys-iface-state: 'removed')
14:47<nmschulte>bremner: yeah I get that, just wondering what its short for -- but it's irrelevant; this is kind of helpful. I wonder what's the proper/easy way to use e.g. Git src vs latest published in this same flow
14:47<bremner>nmschulte: you are basically asking, "how do I package for debian"
14:47<jmcnaught>Sep 29 14:37:32 eeepc wpa_supplicant[379]: Could not read interface wlan0 flags: No such device <--- is it getting renamed again later for some reason, or is the device failing?
14:48<bremner>nmschulte: #packaging is there if you want to learn that.
14:48<nmschulte>yeah pretty much.
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14:50<jmcnaught>ice: from your journal I'm also noticing connmand and NetworkManager: both tools do the same thing and them conflicting could be part of the problem.
14:50<ice>I manually installed networkmanager after people were asking me to try some kind of nmcli command - i just did that an hour ago
14:50<mjt>ice: well. this is broken. it has nothing to do with rfkill. It has the right driver loaded and right firmware (apparently, - I'm not sure about the firmware). The thing is that once NetworkManager is trying some commands on the wifi device (which exists), the device disappears
14:51<mjt>but yes, both connman and networkmanager do the same thing
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14:51<mjt>is there a way to tell connman to stop using a given device?
14:51<mjt>and networkmanager too :)
14:51<somiaj>nmschulte: look up the 'debian new maintainers guide' for packaging for debian, and check out for the process of getting a package into debian (if that is your end goal)
14:52<mjt>I know little about all these tools who manages wifi stuff. There are too many of them, I haven't even heard of connman
14:53<mjt>ice: you can re-enable (unmask) systemd-rfkill.service
14:53<Konomi>is there any reason chromium on stable has been left vulnerable to security issues? When I installed chromium on stable it popped up this bug report
14:53<judd>Bug in chromium (open, security, bullseye-ignore): «chromium: Several upstream versions released with important security fixes»; severity: grave; opened: 2021-06-19; last modified: 2021-09-20.
14:53<mjt>ice: systemctl unmask systemd-rfkill.service
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14:54<mjt>Konomi: chromium is basically managed by a single person in debian. who has his own life too..
14:54<ice>done, i just issued that command. should i also apt-get install rfkill again?
14:54<mjt>rfkill isn't needed anymore
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14:54<mjt>systemd took care of it
14:54<jmcnaught>By the way according to systemd-rfkill(8) if you put systemd.restore_state=0 on the kernel command line it does not restore rfkill settings on boot (but still stores state on shutdown)
14:55<mjt>jmcnaught: we found out it is not rfkill who does bad thing to the wifi device
14:55<nmschulte>I appreciate the help; really I'm "just" trying to plumb codec hwaccel from kernel/v4lm to ffmpeg-lib depending progs; building newer kernel packages was easy enough, building newer ffmpeg was easy but base config is... blah, so just want to impart Debian config, but ffmpeg has a lot going on package-wise (vs even kernel I guess). saw apt source mentions "Hey! get it from Git for latest," so was
14:55<nmschulte>hopeful debuild/dh/dpkg-build... (whatever these tools/suite are referred to as) had hooks already for this flow
14:55<mjt>jmcnaught: I wasn't sure it wont do something else so I asked jmcnaught to mask it temporarily
14:56<jmcnaught>Yes I was just pointing out that systemd.restore_state=0 could probably be used as an alternative to masking the systemd-rfkill.service (next time).
14:56<somiaj>nmschulte: You may want to check the tracker and see if there is any VCS info for a debian git repo, in general one that contains debian/ already so you don't have to create it from scratch. Though sometimes you can take the debian/ from an eariler version and use uupdate or something similar to build upstream source using the debian/ (with maybe some fixes)
14:57<dpkg>uupdate (in the <devscripts> package) upgrades a source code package from an upstream revision, or e.g. if the newest foo in debian is 1.2, and upstream is at 1.4: apt-get source foo; wget -nd; cd foo-1.2; uupdate ../foo-1.4.tar.gz Ask me about <package recompile>.
14:57<somiaj>though that is more for .tar.gz releases, I wonder if there is somethig similar for git
14:57<mjt>jmcnaught: it has some socket activation machinery - i dunno if some other service can ask it to actually do stuff despite restore_state=0 :)
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14:58<mjt>btw, why both connman and network-manager can be run at the same time? Can't we check each other presense and refuse to do Bad Things? :)
14:58<mjt>(tho I used to run network-manager together with systemd-networkd.. :) )
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14:59<nmschulte>somiaj: I may be able to create a orig.tar.gz for ffmpeg w/ pertinent src following kernel package guide -- or just copy debian/, or figure out uupdate flow -- moving to #packaging
14:59<somiaj>mjt: Should it be the responsiblity of the software or the admin here? Also maybe you want to use conman for the wired interface and network-manager for the wired.
15:00<mjt>yeah, - see my note about systemd-networkd ;)
15:00<somiaj>mjt: though in general there are just too many tools, it is best to pick one and use it (though in debian network-manager nicely ignores interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces and you can manually configure it to ignore interfaces being configured by something else.
15:01<somiaj>though I guess you are more helping and wish there was more help for new users who are trying to mix tools, something like, 'umm this interface is already configured by something else, do you really want me to try to take it over?'
15:01<mjt>yes, exactly
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15:02<mjt>I can deal with that easily. but in ice's situation things are getting worse and worse..
15:03<somiaj>Yea, with great freedom comes great resonsiblity issues
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15:03<mjt>ice: how did you install connman? has it been installed automatically or did you choose it in preference over network-manager?
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15:03<ice>mjt: definitely not something I did - this is a brand new install straight from the netinst i386 image
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15:03<mjt>i see
15:03<ice>I did however manually install network-manager after seeing people recommend it
15:04<mjt>yeah that one I've seen
15:04<jmcnaught>lxqt recommends cmst which depends on connman
15:05<mjt>so now, I'm not an expert in wifi managers out there. I used NM but never even heard of connman
15:05<ice>It looks like too complex of a problem for a newbie like me to solve, I wonder if I'll have to buy a Nano USB device
15:05<ice>Do they typically work pretty good ?
15:06<mjt>you digged a bit too deep there. And covered your initial prob with quite some dust. We're just trying to bring it back to its initial state..
15:06<danielssan>ice: the ones which say compatible with raspberry pi should work mostly out of the box and they confirm linux support basically
15:07<ice>mjt: :) well I appreciate your time and trying to help regardless
15:07<mjt>rpi has its own pile of issues :)
15:07<mjt>with linux that is
15:07<ice>danielssan: hmm, not sure I've seen anything like that here
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15:07<mjt>like lack of proper video drivers
15:07<ice>the most readily available one seems to be one called a TP-LINK ARCHER T3U
15:07<ice>it's like 20 bucks
15:08<ice>I wonder if this would work?
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15:09<danielssan>good question, as even tp-link doesn't say which chip it uses
15:09<ice>typical eh
15:09<mjt>actually many vendors uses DIFFERENT chips on the same device
15:10<somiaj>yup, so you just kinda get the device and pray.
15:10<ice>I found this
15:10<mjt>sometimes the difference is in revision, sometimes you can't distinguish it at all
15:10<ice>but I dunno how accurate it is
15:10<ice>seems to have a lot of specs
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15:11<ice>Only has had 1 chipset reported, RTL8812BU
15:11<ice>whatever that is !
15:11<danielssan>yeah realtek, so not the best choice
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15:12<ice>dang, its a nice small profile and super cheap
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15:13<mjt>ice: btw, even if you buy another wifi card, you'll have to deal with network-manager vs connman conflict anyway :)
15:15<ice>mjt: would that become an issue if the card was something that the system didn't have such a dreadful time detecting or whatever though?
15:15<ice>like maybe one would just overrule the other, or they could coexist?
15:15<ice>I'm just wondering lol - definitely no clue
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15:16<mjt>ice: you can remove network-manager at least for now
15:17<somiaj>I think something else is going on if detecting the card is the issue, which is independent of configuring the interface
15:17<mjt>ice: and try loading asus_nb_wmi module
15:18<ice>How do I do that? just type modprobe asus_nb_wmi ?
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15:18<ice>just removing network-manager now
15:18<ice>ERROR could not insert asus_nb_wmi no such device
15:18<mjt>aha. so it is different eeepc
15:18<tp43_>my multi card reader used to work in Debian 10 but not now in 11
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15:19<mjt>ice: you don't have your wifi card in lspci now, right?
15:19<mjt>actually.. it is interesting...
15:19<ice>I do, but only because I rebooted by commenting out the stuff in blacklist again. A guy on Ubuntu Forums requested output from ixni -n with it loading
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15:20<ice>it does show right now , i've blacklisted rt2800pci
15:20<mjt>ixni? lspci? :))
15:20<ice>light is also on.
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15:20<mjt>it goes bad when you load the driver and connman or NM is trying to configure it
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15:21<mjt>in your last log I see the interface reappeared several times
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15:21<ice>Network: Device-1: Ralink RT2790 Wireless 802.11n 1T/2R PCIe driver: N/A is the output the guy wanted but doesn't seem particularly useful
15:22<ice>maybe driver: N/A ?
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15:22<mjt>it's NA b/c it's blacklisted
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15:22<ice>makes sense
15:22<mjt>that's the output i asked you here at the very beginning :)
15:22<ice>I thought so too
15:23<ice>i was just trying to post the question anywhere possible
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15:24<mjt>I'd try to disable connman/NM/whatever from picking up this card automatically (how to do that in connman?) and issue some commands to it manually
15:24<ice>yeah thats just the thing - i have no idea how to do that. is connman installed because i chose a window manager at install time that wasn't GNOME?
15:24<mjt>and also rfkill command (the actual package which we removed) might give us a clue actually
15:25<mjt>namely, rfkill list will show everything - blocked or not
15:25<ice>yeah it will show eeepc-wlan and eeepc-bluetooth
15:25<ice>soft blocked on hard blocked off
15:25<ice>(when malfunctioning)
15:25<ice>right now it says on/on when blacklisted
15:26<mjt>(Does the device kills itself when in use? :)
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15:27<mjt>so please install rfkill package (once we figured out it is not the problem place) and load the module (modprobe rt2...pci - i forgot the name)
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15:27<mjt>and see if we can enable the iface
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15:28<ice>as soon as i ussed modprobe rt2800pci the light shut off
15:28<mjt>yea, as before
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15:28<mjt>if we can re-enable it with rfkill it will at least save us from rebooting into bios :)
15:29<ice>i wish.. i've tried many times, if the command is 'rfkill unblock wifi' or whatever
15:29<ice>it will just turn on for a moment then off again
15:29<mjt>just like when you loaded the driver
15:30<mjt>the device goes off once some managemen layer tries to configure it
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15:31<mjt>if you removed networkmanager you now can disable connman too, at least temporarily, to see if it help this thing to stay on :)
15:31<mjt>rfkill enable will help you there
15:31<mjt>unblock that is
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15:31<ice>I did remove network-manager! I have not rebooted yet though!
15:32<mjt>imMute: it looks like in this case when rfkill blocks the device, it disappears from the pci bus..
15:32<ice>i tried both 'rfkill unblock' and 'rfkill unblock wifi'
15:32<ice>rfkill unblock just doesn't appear to do anything, no output, and the light stays off. rfkill unblock wifi - light flicks on for a second as usual and then off again
15:33<ice>rfkill unblock wifi seems to function the same as pressing FN+F2
15:33<mjt>just unblock does nothing, yes, b/c unblock acts on all arguments that follow :)
15:33<mjt>unblock wifi or unblock all
15:33<ice>yeah it lights up for the 2 seconds or whatever then just abruptly back off again :(
15:34<mjt>so can you please stop connman?
15:34<ice>How do I do that ?
15:34<ice>i'm in 'connmanctl' reading the help, one sec
15:34<mjt>systemctl stop connman
15:35<ice>okay, done, no output
15:35<mjt>now unblock your iface
15:35<ice>ok, smarty pants
15:35<ice>it's still on
15:35<mjt>it is nothing "wow"
15:35<ice>well wow for me!
15:35<mjt>because it stays unmanaged
15:35<ice>furthest i've seen it get at least
15:36<mjt>you see - we stripped the layers you put on it - namely, the modules and two network managers. now we can actually debug the issue
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15:37<mjt>lemme remember how to work with wifi.. :))
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15:44<mjt>it'd help if someone with knowlege about how these wifi drivers work internally have a look at this..
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15:46<tp43_>mjt, wifi just works these days doesnt it?
15:47<mjt>well, not always, as ice's case shows :)
15:47<ice>lol... i wish
15:47<tp43_>if you have ethernet connected, I think wifi gets disabled. The dhcp client can only have one interface i guess.
15:48<mjt>it's wrong tp43_
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15:48<mjt>maybe connman does that? i dunno
15:48<mjt>dhcp works per interface independently
15:48<mjt>you can have more than one default route - one to wired one to wifi
15:49<mjt>network-manager happily enables and works with multiple interfaces independently
15:49<mjt>but I know nothing about connman
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15:51<mjt>ice: btw, you can _try_ re-installing network-manager and see if it pick the interface now..
15:51<mjt>ice: while connman is stopped
15:51<mjt>ice: because, well, it well might be the issue... :)
15:52<mjt>(install it and *run* it)
15:52<tp43_>maybe not dhcp client, might be laptop power manager. Like in gnome, if you plug in ethernet, it won't even show you the wifi in the task bar.
15:53<mjt>tp43_: my gnome shows both ethernet and wifi just fine :)
15:53<mjt>gnome itself doesn't manage them. it is either network-manager or somethig else like this
15:53<tp43_>Really. Might be Ubunutu. That laptop I mentioned had Ubuntu.
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15:54<mjt>NM sure can support multiple interfaces
15:54<mjt>ubuntu uses the same tools as debian :)
15:54<tp43_>mjt, you feel like arguing?
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15:54<mjt>sure :))
15:55<tp43_>You can use em both. But the gnome task bar hides the wifi options if you plug in ethernet. Ubuntu 18. Dunno about 20.
15:55<tp43_>I have debian 11 now. And when I had debian 10, I had my multi card reader working but not anymore with 11. Actually I don't really care about the multicard reader. My big problem is python3-git. I have it installed but can not find it anywhere.
15:57<mjt>dpkg -L >
15:57<dpkg>ii > 1.9-4.1 ultra s3kr1t #debian package
15:57<mjt>dpkg: shut up
15:57<dpkg>Kiss my shiny metal ass!
15:57<danielssan>tp43_: what are you specifically looking for?
15:57<mjt>tp43_: dpkg -L python3-git ?
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16:01<mjt>tp43_: when switching from networkmanager to connman, I also see wifi disappearing once I plug in ethernet
16:01<mjt>ice: this well mught be the case here :)
16:02<tp43_>mjt, thx
16:02<sney>most of those applets will hide the little radio waves icon if you connect ethernet, but if you look at e.g. 'ip a' you still have addresses on both interfaces
16:02<sney>wired ethernet is just kinda better, in most cases, so it gets the priority
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16:03<tp43_>danielssan, I have a program that needs python-git, but I have python3-git
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16:04<danielssan>tp43_: did you already try equivs?
16:04<tp43_>danielssan, I do not how to use it
16:04<tp43_>danielssan, it is advanced
16:05<mjt>you can install python-git from oldstable I guess
16:05<mjt>(together with all other python2 stuff ;) )
16:05<mjt>which program is that, btw?
16:05<ice>sorry I was afk for a bit there , I should try reinstalling network-manager now? sure
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16:06<tp43_>mjt, I think python3-git will do the job if the program knew to look for it. I was thinking of adding a symlink but all I see is /usr/share/doc/python3-git/ directory, no actual program
16:06<tp43_>Or how to heck do you use equivs
16:06<mjt>tp43_: did you see my dpkg thing?
16:07<tp43_>mjt, yes, didn't you see my thx reply. I ran it, it is all in /usr/share/doc and /usr/lib/
16:07<mjt>tp43_: it is in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/git/
16:07<tp43_>It is a lib I guess, not a program
16:07<mjt>if you run your prog with python3 it will find these dirs automatically
16:08<mjt>tp43_: or is your prog searching for an executable named python-git maybe? :)
16:08<tp43_>This is the deb I am trying to install
16:09<tp43_>Works fine on debian 10 and ubuntu 18, but debian 11 and ubuntu 20 do not work.
16:09<tp43_>I got it working once somehow, not sure what I did. On both debian 11 and ubuntu 20. So maybe it is a server side thing
16:10<danielssan>hm maybe python-is-python3?
16:10<mjt>this leaf asks for python3
16:11<tp43_>danielssan, I tried it. apt returns, Note, selecting python-is-python2. How to change it to select python-is-python3 instead
16:11<danielssan>remove and install the other one i guess
16:11<tp43_>I tried both, apt purge python-is-python3; apt install python-is-python2 and vice versa
16:12<mjt>interesting. that leaf_latest.deb just installs there
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16:12<tp43_>mjt, what do you mean 'just installs there'?
16:13<mjt>I d/loaded it and installed it. asked two deps from debian repo and installed fine
16:13<mjt>installed python3-argcomplete and python3-gnupg
16:13<tp43_>mjt, yeah but the you must do next step
16:13<tp43_>The problem is when you try to install to src/toolchain
16:14<tp43_>It doesn't try to install python until later
16:14<mjt>is there a complete instruction somewhere? :)
16:14<tp43_>leaf setup wp76stable -p swi-wp76_5.0.0
16:15<tp43_>then it will go for 10 mins fine, and then fail when you try to install the toolchain. So I did one by steps, leaf init, leaf getsrc legato, and then I get the feedback that python-git, python-xmltodict is the problem. I have python3-git and python3-xmltodict installed
16:16<mjt>here it stops at swiflash swicwe
16:16<tp43_>mjt, what was error?
16:16<mjt>These packages were not found on the current distribution: swiflash swice
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16:17<tp43_>mjt, do you have sudo installed? There is a step, it asks to download dependencies. They are stupid at SW. They think they are debian experts but obviously and tried to do more than they ae capable of.
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16:18<mjt>yes i do have sudo installed :)
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16:18<danielssan>wouldn't it just be easier to setup a debian10 chroot
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16:19<tp43_>danielssan, that is not easy either. I would love to be able to do it. But I need windowing too.
16:19<danielssan>windowing? you mean X?
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16:19<tp43_>danielssan, Isn't it wayland now?
16:19<danielssan>depends on your hardware
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16:20<mjt>it is just a chroot not whole thing :)
16:20<tp43_>I have Dell studio xps with nvidia card
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16:20<danielssan>so sounds like you are running x anyway
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16:20<danielssan>you can redirect the window stuff to your host X
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16:21<mjt>tp43_: ah, I see it now: apt update here failed b/c my apt proxy denied https
16:21<tp43_>mjt, Never heard of apt proxy
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16:22<mjt>cacher for .deb files, since I do many installs
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16:22<tp43_>danielssan, debootstrap is on my dream todo list
16:22<tp43_>danielssan, I think it might be a 1wk job. I am hoping for a half day job.
16:23<danielssan>it's pretty easy, I guess you would need maybe about n hour to learn it (and that's way overestimated)
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16:23<tp43_>danielssan, I already have an empty disk ready to be partitioned for debootstrap.
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16:23<mjt>you only need a directory :)
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16:24<tp43_>mjt, when I read the docs, it said create a partition.
16:24<danielssan>and while you are at it, I can only recommend systemd-nspawn :) (as they call it chroots on steroids)
16:24<mjt>debootstrap? partition?
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16:24<tp43_>So then I have to disable my display manager and use startx from a chroot instead
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16:25<danielssan>tp43_: you really only need an empty directory (with enough free space)
16:25<danielssan>oO nope
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16:25<tp43_>Cause I need to run an IDE too
16:25<tp43_>not just cli
16:26<mjt>tp43_: chroot here basically means a directory with all the *libraries* from another system (debian 10 in this case) so you can run stuff that relies on those libraries. You can run GUI apps in there just fine, they will be shown on your regular X
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16:26<danielssan>tp43_: look into how you can redirect X from your chroot to your host X, which is very simple
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16:27<tp43_>docs page recommendation?
16:28<mjt>but I'd really try to solve this python-git issue. they use python3 so should not depend on python2 hopefully..
16:28<tp43_>mjt, yep
16:28<danielssan>tp43_: just avoid the arch-chroot stuff
16:28<mjt>chroot is a heavy weapon
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16:29<tp43_>I mean I am interested in debootstrap too, but I should be able to get that leaf working on debian 11 too
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16:30<mjt>tp43_: what's this system anyway, this "leaf" thing - how it's called?
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16:30<tp43_>mjt, embed sys programming stuff. 4g modems
16:30<tp43_>I am gonna quit this job anyway.
16:30<mjt>does it have a name?
16:31<tp43_>Legato Framework. wp76 series system on a chip
16:31<tp43_>mangoh board.
16:31<ice>ip link list is showing wlp1s0 !
16:32<tp43_>I am dumping this career shit and going for fast food job. Too much hate when you have a high paying job. It is not worth it. I am pakistani muslim and people hate us so why have I been working so hard these 20years and got nothing for it.
16:32<danielssan>oO so connman was interfering :/
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16:32<mjt>ice: !!!
16:33<sney>I always forget about connman, and I filed one of the bugs about it
16:33<sney>it's such a hostile daemon haha
16:33<tp43_>I am just gonna re-install debian and hope I get lucky
16:33<mjt>ice: so does it work now with networkmanager?
16:33<tp43_>Cause it worked a before.
16:33<mjt>tp43_: - they said it just works
16:34<tp43_>mjt, that is me
16:34<tp43_>mjt, that is what I am saying it worked once
16:34<tp43_>But you know what, it just worked that one time and then later it didn't and I am pretty sure I didn't make any changes. I think they doing some funny business on server side.
16:35-!-blast007_ is now known as blast007
16:35<mjt>ice: please give us some feedback ;)))
16:35<ice>this is what I currently see! unsure how to proceed, just trying to google
16:35<tp43_>ok guys, see you in a hour or so while I re-install
16:36<ice>oh the page isnt working, wth
16:36<ice>one sec
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16:38<danielssan>ice: you can use nmtui for a curses interface, so it's easier. otherwise there is a gtk app (can't remember the name)
16:39<ice>oh cool! let me try that !
16:39<danielssan>that's the name of the gtk app
16:39<mjt>or nm-applet
16:41<ice>hmm, under nmtui it just is showing Ethernet under the Edit a Connection area. Unless I have to enter the details manually
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16:41<danielssan>did you activate the connection (just to make sure)
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16:42<danielssan>afair you still need to tell nm to manage the device
16:42<ice>It only shows PCI Ethernet -> Wired Connection 1 under Activate a Connection as well :(
16:43<mjt>does network-manager-gnome work in lxde?
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16:43<ice>lets find out :)
16:43<mjt>I dunno what lxde use for network stuff
16:44<danielssan>mjt: we can assume connman ;)
16:44<ice>I installed the package but don't see what binary to run
16:44<mjt>well maybe connman wasn't actually that bad and the only thing needed was to disconnect ethernet?
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16:44<danielssan>ice: nm-connection-manager?
16:45<ice>nm-connection-editor i guess, yeah im in there now, just is showing Ethernet only
16:46<mjt>ice: how about clicking the "+" icon?
16:48<ice>I click the + and there's a way to manually enter stuff it looks like, but none of the values are auto-filled, and its not detecting anything in the BSSID area. I'll try manually entering some info to see if it does anything
16:48<mjt>damn.. so much stuff
16:48<mjt>does nm-applet work?
16:48<mjt>I never run it manually :)
16:49<mjt>used lxde a lot but without fancy networking
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16:50<mjt>anyway.. i'm off for today.. good luck! :)
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16:51<mjt>ice: and you're now really close since you only need the gui to configure it.. it looks like NM picked it up (you can verify in journalctl)
16:52<mjt>ice: btw, for a micro-usb wifi you'd face exactly the same situation..
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16:56<ice>haven't been able to quite figure it out yet
16:56<ice>seems like it's not able to scan for networks or something?
16:56<ice>is there a utility that can scan for networks ?
16:57<mjt>iw list :)
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16:57<sney>that one too
16:58<mjt>ice: does nm-applet work?
16:59<ice>it runs in the task tray as a little icon, but within it, there is nothing I can do except manually add a network
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16:59<ice>this is what iw list shows me, does that look like it's working?
17:00<mjt>it is working yes, this is a list of capabilities
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17:04<mjt>iw dev yourwifidev scan
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17:09<mjt>ice: so, does nm-applet work?
17:10<ice>Network is down (-100) it says
17:10<ice>when I try that iw dev command
17:10<ice>also there is some stuff that echoes in my terminal, passively
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17:11<ice_>root@eeepc:~# [ 7725.087405] ieee80211 phy3: rt2800_wait_wpdma_ready: Error - WPDMA TX/RX busy [0x0000006a]
17:11<ice_>[ 7727.327387] ieee80211 phy3: rt2800_wait_wpdma_ready: Error - WPDMA TX/RX busy [0x0000006a]
17:11<ice_>[ 7727.333735] ieee80211 phy3: rt2800pci_set_device_state: Error - Device failed to enter state 4 (-5)
17:11<ice>I have this echoing in my terminal at times
17:12<mjt>that's probably when nm and iw conflict with each other :)
17:14<mjt>and i guess there was something-gui for connman on lxde... :)
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17:16<ice>Darn, yeah I can't seem to figure it out. nm-applet runs in the taskbar but doesn't detect any wireless networks. My only option is to manully connect to a hidden network (im surrounded by 4 networks on diff bands, none are hidden)
17:16<ice>manually entering the info doesn't work, looks like it attempts for 10 seconds then fails
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17:46<ejohb>ice, maybe firmware issue, did you install the necessary firmware?
17:46<ice>I do believe so, I have had mjt helping me along the way, it should have the rt2800pci driver loaded
17:47<ice>Have made a lot of progress getting the device to show up successfully and not disappear
17:47<ice>but don't appear to be able to get any feedback from it.. Haven't successfully been able to even scan for networks
17:48<ice>if i type nmcli device wifi list it just shows nothing under the networks, and every similar app i've used like nm-applet etc along the way has been the same
17:49<dreamer>what about `iwlist scan` ?
17:49<ice>wlp1s0: Interface doesn't support scanning: Network is down
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17:51<ejohb>ice, did you try nmtui ?
17:52<ice>Yes, it just displays Ethernet Wired Connection only
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17:53<ice>have tried nm-applet as well
17:56<ejohb>ice, not sure if its related but did you try to check if the interface is in UP state using ip l command?
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17:56<ejohb>other day I was with no connectivity even though I was connected I had to manually set it to down and then UP again
17:56<ejohb>still not sure if that would help you
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18:02<ice_>7: wlp1s0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc mq state DOWN mode DORMANT group default qlen 1000 link/ether 7e:fa:34:a1:64:e1 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff permaddr 00:15:af:ef:4f:fe
18:02<ice>it says this, state DOWN
18:03<ice>is that offline?
18:03<danielssan>ice: ip link set dev <interface> up
18:03<ejohb>yeah I think so
18:04<ice_>root@eeepc:~# ip link set dev wlp1s0 up
18:04<ice_>[11223.751391] ieee80211 phy3: rt2800_wait_wpdma_ready: Error - WPDMA TX/RX busy [0x0000006a]
18:04<ice_>[11225.779339] ieee80211 phy3: rt2800_wait_wpdma_ready: Error - WPDMA TX/RX busy [0x0000006a]
18:04<ice_>[11225.784914] ieee80211 phy3: rt2800pci_set_device_state: Error - Device failed to enter state 4 (-5)
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18:04<dreamer>use a pastebin please
18:04<dreamer>oh, they're gone
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18:04<sussudio>kicking will do that
18:04<ejohb>ip l set up dev <interface>
18:04<ejohb>not sure if thats how it goes though
18:05<danielssan>ejohb: ice is gone ;)
18:05<ejohb>maybe this solve his issue what you guys think
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18:06<danielssan>ejohb: i guess it's the same command i posted, which gave him that error
18:06<ice>it says RTNETLINK answers: input/output error
18:07<ejohb>hey ice try ip l set up dev <interface>
18:07<ejohb>or try to check if that last command changed the state
18:08<ice>gives same output, RTNETLINK ANSWERS input/output error after displaying the 3 tx/rx busy errors as well
18:09<ejohb>danielssan, yeah I guess its the same thing
18:09<danielssan>ice: somebody posted this "I've seen those errors a long time ago, but turning it off and on again usually fixed it. Mine was only a RT2860 though."
18:09<ice>I wish.. I've gone through probably 60 reboots
18:10<danielssan>ugh okay
18:10<Sqrt{not}>not the same thing
18:10<ice>Anyone want root access and just make short work of this thing? lmao
18:10<ice>i'm at this point
18:10<ice>just kidding, probably frowned upon
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18:11<danielssan>pretty much, as you don't know what that person does besides fixing your issue
18:11<psusi>does anyone know what the heck a "portal" fuse mount in /run/$UID/doc is or how to find out?
18:11<ejohb>ice, maybe try posting in forums too, so that you can more freely post your logs and error messages people might ask
18:12<psusi>it seems to be broken because running df reports that it gets -EPERM trying to statfs() the mount point but I have no idea where it came from or what it's doing there
18:13<danielssan>psusi: what are you trying to do/
18:14<psusi>danielssan: I just ran df and it gives an error on this mount point and I have no idea what this mount point is even doing there
18:14<danielssan> as I can't see what you see on your screen
18:15<psusi>but it seems to me that fuse is nothing but problems
18:15-!-mbond [~mbond@2600:1700:65a0:b550::45] has quit [Quit: mbond]
18:15<psusi>but gnome really seems to like using it
18:16<danielssan>psusi: as I have no idea what you are trying to do _shrug_
18:16<psusi>danielssan: I'm trying to run df
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18:16<psusi>and figure out why it is getting an error on this odd fuse mount
18:16<danielssan>and what is that odd fuse mount?
18:17<psusi>portal /run/user/1000/doc fuse.portal rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000 0 0
18:17<psusi>I guess I'm trying to figure out what package I should file a bug report against now ;)
18:18<jmcnaught>psusi: what's in the directory? It seems to only be used by Flatpak apps on my system. I got that error with df on buster, but it no longer happens for me on bullseye.
18:18<Sqrt{not}>psusi, are you trying that df command as root?
18:18<danielssan>psusi: seems like
18:18<psusi>nope... running it as me
18:19<Sqrt{not}>root can sometimes fix EPERM
18:19<psusi>only thing in there is an empty directory named "by-app"
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18:19<psusi>Sqrt{not}: in my experience with FUSE, it has been that you only get -EPERM when running as root ;)
18:20<psusi>the directory is owned by me and I can stat it, but not stat -f
18:20<Sqrt{not}>I thought you said you got EPERM "running it as me"?
18:20<psusi>yes, but I know that gnome used to use fuse for gvfs and that always caused root to get -EPERM
18:21<psusi>also seen that happen with eCryptfs
18:22<psusi>interesting.. in this case though, running it as root succeeds, though df does not show the mount
18:22<psusi>is there a way to figure out what process is actually implementing this filesystem?
18:24<psusi>I don't even have flatpak installed
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18:27<bremner>does lsof help?
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18:29<psusi>what would I run lsof on?
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18:34<bremner>actually, ls /run/user/1000/doc/by-app will tell you who is creating these things
18:35<bremner>(I think)
18:35<jmcnaught>psusi: I think it is xdg-desktop-portal (package)
18:35<nickgaw>Hi, Why after setting up encrypted LVM in stable and waiting 3 hours to erase the drive and telling it to have two partitions one for / and one for /home I now have two LVM groups with 30 gig for / and the other 960 gigs for /home and my one swap partition on the physical hard drive and not on the 8 gig SSD and the installer won't go forward as it sees this non-encrypted swap area so I had to configure it as encrypted and it sees it as not active so can the
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18:36<psusi>bremner: lsof will tell you what program has the file open right now... none do
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18:37<bremner>nickgaw: you were cut off at "so can the"
18:38<nickgaw>process be fixed later after the system is resized later to correct without having to wait 3 more hours as I expected 500 gigs for / and 500 gigs for /home?
18:40<psusi>hrm... seems likely
18:40<nickgaw>So should I go ahead and have it format and install the system in it's current state?
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18:43<nickgaw>If the lvm groups are setup like the installer setup them can they be both fixed for what I want after the installation is completed?
18:43<psusi>did it give you an option to NOT fill the drive with random data, thus spending hours writing to the disk?
18:44<psusi>I don't think you want to have two different volume groups
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18:44<psusi>but I think you can merge them later
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18:45<nickgaw>The installer created one for root and one for home the home one is much larger then root so is there a way to fix this issue before I tell the installer to format and install the system?
18:45<psusi>it created two logical volumes, or two volume groups?
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18:46<psusi>and can you go back and do the partitioning over, and this time tell it NOT to spend hours filling the disk with /dev/random? If so I'd do that
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18:46<nickgaw>LV root and LV home so are those different volume groups?
18:47<psusi>nickgaw: it depends... it should say the name of the volume group each is in
18:47<psusi>but normally you would just have to LVs in one VG
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18:47<Tj>there'll be a single Volume Group, containing the Logical Volumes
18:47<psusi>I normally name the VG the same as the hostname
18:47<nickgaw>Should I use LVM for encryption if all I want to do is make my entire system encrypted?
18:48<Tj>"vgdisplay -v"
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18:48<psusi>I don't think you can do full disk encryption without using LVM... but I like using LVM anyway ( never bothered with encryption )
18:48<Tj>nickgaw: usually it does LUKS > LVM
18:49<nickgaw>Is VG home and VG root two different volume groups and if so can I resize and fix the system after the system is installed if all of my data for /home is backed up?
18:50<qqq>psusi: you can use luks without lvm, I don't see why not
18:50<nickgaw>So should I go ahead and let it install the system?
18:50<somiaj>you don't need LUKS or LVM for encryption, but in most cases unless you really know what you are doing, you could easily fall into a pit fall in which makes your encryption fairly easy to break.
18:50<psusi>qqq: ahh right... it still uses device-mapper, but not LVM... true...
18:50<somiaj>well the LUKS part, the lvm just is nice to have
18:51<qqq>use luks (manual mapper etc is easy to get wrong probably) how ever lvm is not needed there, but just makes it easier to resize/move around things later
18:51<psusi>nickgaw: I'm not sure what you're seeing on the scereen exactly, but yes, if it is two volume groups you can merge them later
18:53<nickgaw>LV swap LV home and LV root are going to be written to disk if I finish and write changes so if later I want to fix the sizes should I be able to do this if I continue and let debian-installer write these changes?
18:55<psusi>nickgaw: yes
18:56<nickgaw>I do wish that that option existed to not rewrite the data for that long of time in the debian-installer so why do they force you to do this?
18:56<psusi>they don't let you skip that eh? that sucks
18:57<psusi>it's a good idea if you don't want to make it easier for an attacker to crack the encryption
18:57<somiaj>you can skip it I belive, but in general you don't want to if you want to encrypt your data
18:57<somiaj>So the installer assumes that you want to ensure your encryption is strong enough to withstand attacks
18:58<nickgaw>That I understand but if it is your own personal system with nothing valuable on it I think there should be a way to fix it where you don't do the writing of data all on the disk.
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18:58<psusi>if it's your own personal system with nothing valuable on it, then why bother encrypting it? ;)
18:59<nickgaw>for protection of data I mean the data that would have been overwritten if it is not valuable then there should be an option to not do that writing.
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19:00<psusi>nickgaw: it's not for the data being overwritten, it is to protect the data you are going to write to it once it is encrypted
19:01<somiaj>If an attacker can determine what data on the drive is encrypted, this can help a lot in breaking it, so it is best to have random data everywhere so the attacker cannot tell the difference between encrypted data or empty space
19:02<somiaj>yea, this is not done to proect your old data, it is done to protect your new data
19:02<nickgaw>I am for that but again there should be a way if say you had to restart the installation to be a way to skip that process.
19:03<psusi>hrm... I think if you went back at that point, the LUKS is already set up and you won't have to do that part over again
19:03<psusi>only the part where you set up the LVM
19:03<somiaj>I also think there is a way to skip it, but maybe only in the expert installer
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19:06<FluffyFoxeh>I accidentally deleted /root/.profile and /root/.bashrc. Where do I find the originals? I thought it might be /etc/skel but I think those are different from root's files
19:06<nickgaw>I run the installer with low priority setup and there is no option to skip that portion of the installation.
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19:07<somiaj>FluffyFoxeh: the main difference is the PATH needs to include /usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin
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19:07<somiaj>you can just recreate them to get the enviorment bakc you want
19:07<FluffyFoxeh>recreate them from what
19:08<somiaj>you can use the ones in /etc/skel as a starting point, or just create them from nothing.
19:08<somiaj>I think they are hard coppied into plcae with the installer
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19:09<Shankaraya>Hello, I want to clone my sistem (MxLinux19) to a new harddisk. Did put the new drive in my machine, cloned the system with live-usb-maker. Now I want to copy the data partition from my old disk to the new one, with sata-usb-adapter, but I cannot mount it. Unseen
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19:10<sarnold>FluffyFoxeh: here's my /root/.bashrc and my /root/.profile you can use to compare against skel
19:10<somiaj>FluffyFoxeh: those are mine, guess I was wrong, the PATH isn't generated by them
19:11<sarnold>FluffyFoxeh: oh ffs I didn't realize I'm in the wrong channel. those are from ubuntu.
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19:11<somiaj>Note, mine are from a buster or buster-1 install orginally, then I've been upgrading
19:11<somiaj>I think this machine is new enough it is buster
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19:13<MrHatter123>I am trying to upgrade an old jessie box to a stretch box, but I am getting this after replacing the sources.list, I have also ran : apt-get instrall debian-archive-keyring and apt-get install debian-keyring - W: There is no public key available for the following key IDs:
19:13<somiaj>that .bashrc is far fancier than mine, though looks closer to the default one in /etc/skel
19:13<somiaj>the package debian-archive-keyring for jessie might just be too oudated.
19:13<somiaj>,v debian-archive-keyring
19:13<judd>Package: debian-archive-keyring on amd64 -- stretch: 2017.5+deb9u1; stretch-updates: 2017.5+deb9u1; buster: 2019.1+deb10u1; bookworm: 2021.1.1; bullseye: 2021.1.1; sid: 2021.1.1
19:14<somiaj>MrHatter123: the depends on that package fine, maybe try installing the keyring package from stretch instead of jessie
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19:16<nickgaw>Can I do an installation where / and /home are both encrypted and no LVM is used?
19:17<ejohb>nickgaw, sure you can I did that months ago but I manually encrypted whole / with /home too
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19:18<danielssan>nickgaw: yes
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19:18<nickgaw>The installation failed with not enough disk space so I am restarting it and am now at the installation partitioning screen that asks you about guiding partitioning so what should I choose?
19:19<danielssan>nickgaw: you would need to choose manual, and then go through the guide for creating a vg, then lv, and then creating your partitions
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19:20<ejohb>nickgaw, well the procedure I made was all manual through command line don't know how to do with installer sorry :(
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19:21<TobiX>somiaj: The install starts overwriting the crypto partition with random data, but you can just cancel it anytime and the installer just continues with the next step...
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19:22<danielssan>ugh, sorry explained the wrong thing. I guess it's bedtime for me :/
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19:24<TobiX>nickgaw: You can encrypt / and /home individually, but you'd have to enter multiple unlock passwords on boot then
19:24<TobiX>(at least in the standard config)
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19:30<Shankaraya> Hello, I want to clone my sistem (MxLinux19) to a new harddisk. Did put the new drive in my machine, cloned the system with live-usb-maker. Now I want to copy the data partition from my old disk to the new one, with sata-usb-adapter, but I cannot mount it. Unseen
19:30<psusi>Shankaraya: you cut off after "Unseen"
19:31<Shankaraya>my old disk is unseen in the usb sata adapter. It doesn't mount
19:32<somiaj>We don't support mxlinux here. But as for this, maybe seek the support of the live-usb-maker tool
19:32<somiaj>That is a tool I don't see in Debian.
19:33<Shankaraya>tnx, is there mxlinux channel?
19:33<dselect>MX Linux is a popular distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: It is related to <antix>. If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead:
19:33<TobiX>Most SATA-USB-Adapters are pretty terrible... Maybe not enough power? But even that is borderline on-topic here ;)
19:33<Sqrt{not}>Shankaraya, they have that forum, but I don't think they have an IRC channel
19:34<Shankaraya>Tnx guys!
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20:00<FluffyFoxeh>somiaj: Found it, the originals are in /usr/share/base-files/
20:01<FluffyFoxeh>specifically dot.profile and dot.bashrc
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20:10<MrHatter123>somiaj, ok thx, I look into it.
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20:34<grzesiek11>where is the ftp server for downloads located? doesn't have port 21 open.
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20:40<dvs>ftp is ded
20:40<dvs>http only
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20:50<aloo_shu>imagine living in a home without bars in the windows
20:50<aloo_shu>all the bad things that could happen
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21:02<somiaj>grzesiek11: is now just a forward to, the cdn network for package delivary, which is all over https. What is your goal?
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21:09<grzesiek11>somiaj: I wanted to download a whole directory, so I figured out FTP would be the easiest way. I found that has FTP, so I used that - problem solved.
21:10<grzesiek11>HTTP is great and all until you want to get more than a single file...
21:11<sarnold>grzesiek11: wget --mirror --no-parent kind of things are handy
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21:13<grzesiek11>wget also downloads the html files generated for directory listing, which are useless, but that would be the only way, I would use it
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21:14<grzesiek11>finding the FTP server is easier in this case
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21:14<psusi>kindo f a shame that ftp is dead these days
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21:15<psusi>that was one of the first RFCs I read back in the '90s
21:15<FluffyFoxeh>Bring it back
21:15<grzesiek11>yeah... it sometimes just is the right tool for the job. there are no direct alternatives :/
21:15<psusi>then I figured out site to site transfers were possible and wrote an ftp server... heh
21:16<psusi>because all the other windows ftp servers at the time sucked donkey dong
21:17<psusi>I couldn't believe it when I managed to push 11,820 KB/s over my fast ethernet card on my 90 MHz Pentium... didn't think fast ethernet could actually go that fast until I really did all of the math and accounted for all of the packet headers and such
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21:19<psusi>though I suppose I haven't had any trouble using scp or rsync+ssh lately
21:20<grzesiek11>sftp/scp are better than ftp for transfering files to a server you own in most cases
21:20<psusi>I can't believe it has taken me until now to finally learn to use midnight commander
21:20<grzesiek11>but ftp has no alternative for just public file servers
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21:21<psusi>no reason someone can't make an "anonymous" account with no password and enable ssh access with a restricted shell I suppose... just never seen anyone do that
21:21<grzesiek11>I guess...
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21:22<somiaj>grzesiek11: and why do you want to download a whole directory? What is it you are trying to get?
21:22<grzesiek11>(also, in most cases - ftp still rules if the server is local and you want to transfer big files, encryption has a pretty big overhead from my testing)
21:23<dpkg> is not the principal mirror for Debian. It is just one mirror that uses bandwidth that was donated to the Debian project; you are kindly requested not to use this mirror but to instead use a mirror that is closer to you, ask me about <mirrors>. See for more information.
21:24<somiaj>that is a bit outdated, but that is just an old name that happened to point at a single server, which may have made sense in the past, but now days, it is probably better to not have point to a single mirror (hence it doesn't anymore)
21:24<somiaj>now maybe some of the mirrors still offer ftp access such as, or look up a mirror list and see if you can find that still supports ftp
21:24<somiaj>the CDN just dosen't as far as I know
21:25<grzesiek11>somiaj: I needed all the installer-* directories from ftp|
21:25<grzesiek11>also, supports ftp, so the problem is solved
21:25<grzesiek11>I guess this is a CDN too?
21:26<grzesiek11>not sure
21:26<somiaj>no the CDN is just for providing the packages for apt I belive
21:26<psusi>grzesiek11: yea... I'm kind of annoyed these days at the overhead encryption adds to transfers that have no need for it especially these days when everything on the web is now https
21:26<somiaj>anyways, almost sounds like you want to make a mirror, there are tools that you can make a debian mirror (locally) that only grabs certain things
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21:26<psusi>like... it's public stuff, I have no need for security here and could do with some speed up from a local cacheing proxy server... why is everytyhing https?
21:27<somiaj>and here they suggest rsync, which seems like another option
21:27<sarnold>psusi: squid-deb-proxy is good stuff
21:27<kwilczynski>psusi: The overhead is not that significant.
21:27<somiaj>most apt servers aren't https for debian, though there is another branch of users who are annoyed about that
21:28<psusi>kwilczynski: "not that significant" assumes that you are on relatively low speed connection... if you've got a 100 MBit+ connection, it is
21:28<kwilczynski>I am on a symmetric 1 Gbps link.
21:29<psusi>then it's significant
21:29<kwilczynski>No, it's not significant.
21:30<kwilczynski>Stop spewing half-truths.
21:30<psusi>I guess it depends on your definition of significant
21:30<psusi>but when doing local gigabit network transfers I definately notice a difference using ssh vs ftp or ssh with no or low grade encryption
21:31<sarnold>holy moly, https is five times faster for me than http
21:31<kwilczynski>sarnold: Indeed.
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21:31<sarnold>3.6s vs .6s, over and over and over again
21:31<psusi>I'm betting that you are confusing https with QUIC over https
21:31<grzesiek11>for normal webpages, sure, it's not "significant". but when you download some big files it is, at least from my own testing. the website you sent is a bit misleading, since it compares HTTP 1.1 with HTTP 2. most websites don
21:31<sarnold>psusi: I'm just clicking the http and https links on this page
21:31<psusi>since QUIC requires ssl
21:32<grzesiek11>uhh I misspressed enter
21:32<psusi>try downloading an iso
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21:32<grzesiek11>for normal webpages, sure, it's not "significant". but when you download some big files it is, at least from my own testing. the website you sent is a bit misleading, since it compares HTTP 1.1 with HTTP 2. most websites don't implement HTTP 2 yet.
21:32<psusi>it's not the end of the world... but it does make a difference
21:32<kwilczynski>grzesiek11: They don't have to? What does TLS have anything to do with HTTP/2?
21:33<kwilczynski>What on earth the two of you are even talking about.
21:33<grzesiek11>nothing, just that the website you sent compares HTTP 1.1 with HTTP 2.
21:33<kwilczynski>Next time I am going to hear that we should be disabling compression because it puts some load on the CPU on both ends are it's bad.
21:34<psusi>when you're downloading something that's already compressed like an iso image, yea... it is ;)
21:34<grzesiek11>I don't want to get into any drama, I'm going to bed.
21:35<kwilczynski>psusi: Since when bare ISO file is compressed? It might contain some data that was written to it that is indeed compressed, but the bulk of it it's not.
21:36<psusi>the isos I usually download are OS boot images that have most of their contents already compressed
21:36<kwilczynski>Prove it.
21:36<psusi>go take a look at a debian iso ;)
21:37<psusi>and when I make backups and transfer them over a local network, I normally compress the backup image too, then when it is encrypted and compressed again to transfer over ssh, it does make a difference
21:38<psusi>like I said, it's not the end of the world... but it does speed up the transfer if you can avoid it
21:39<kwilczynski>Why are you talking about SSH here? It has nothing to do with HTTP or HTTPS (using TLS and different ciphers most of the time). Your default cipher used in SSH is often inefficient and slow to use. Go research this please.
21:39<psusi>eh? what do you mean? I'm pretty sure the cipher suites are pretty similar
21:40<bremner>is there a debian support question here? It seems like this has maybe gon on long enough
21:41<kwilczynski>bremner: Why? You can't disagree with someone who is telling people that encryption and HTTPS is slow and hence is bad?
21:41<psusi>how about this one... I'm trying to figure out how to use midnight commander's external panelize feature and when I have it run xmms2 list to display my current playlist, it shows nothing
21:41<psusi>any idea why? ;)
21:42<psusi>kwilczynski: I'm not saying it is slow, and therefore bad always and forever... I'm saying it has a cost, and sometimes, there is just no reason to pay that cost
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21:50<kwilczynski>sarnold: If you are using moderately up-to-date kernel on your desktop, switch (as an experiment) to fq/fq_codel with BBR v1/2 (preferably v2) and some some tests. I can make a nice welcomed difference over the default congestion control.
21:50<kwilczynski>s/and some/and do/
21:52<kwilczynski>sarnold: and - some details. I am in-love with BBR v2 personally.
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21:56<sarnold>kwilczynski: heh, the link from there reports overall A+ bufferbloat A+ quality A and a simple grey - for speed
21:57<sarnold>kwilczynski: I've been meaning to swap out the CPE gear from my ISP for ages but it's going to be a pain in the ass to do it so I haven't done it yet. heh.
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21:59<kwilczynski>sarnold: I am somewhat lucky, as I am able to leverage FTTC, so I just got SM LC UPC BiDi from my ISP.
22:00<kwilczynski>sarnold: I then connect it to a SFP port on a switch that is a L2/L3 one, so I am doing some routing and NAT on it too.
22:01<sarnold>I don't know if I can swap out my ONT or not
22:02<sarnold>certainly the fiber won't reach to any place convenient in my house, just exterior :/ I've thought before it'd be nice if I could swap in new optics and get 10g or 40g or something..
22:04<kwilczynski>You have something with a normal GPON?
22:04<sarnold>no idea :)
22:05<kwilczynski>The reason why I have the other type is because I live in a tower apartment building, so the ISP terminates last mile differently here.
22:05<kwilczynski>To a single free-standing house it would probably be different.
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22:27<ice>hi again! alright, i am back from the local computer store and bought a cheap wifi stick called a TP-LINK ARCHER T4U
22:28<ice>Looks like it needs some kind of proprietary driver called rtl88x2bu
22:28<somiaj>shouldn't need a proprietary drive, just install firmware-realtek
22:28<ice>before I go about this the completely wrong way - is anyone familiar with how to get this up?
22:29<ice>Oh sweet, let me try that then, thank you
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22:35<qqq>during apt upgrade deb8 -> deb9, apt upgrade worked, but apt dist-upgrade says (after long time) E: Ument dependencies
22:35<qqq>any general hints?
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22:36<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
22:36<somiaj>qqq: sounds like you have some third party package installed not allowing something to upgrade messing with depends.
22:36<qqq>yeah, any hints without bat? Im trying 'apt --fix-broken install' now
22:36<qqq>somiaj: don't think so, but how would one list them?
22:37<somiaj>we need output, we can't guess what you were seeing
22:37<somiaj>aptitude search ~o
22:37<somiaj>though if you have third party sources active they won't show up and those sources can also cause problems
22:37<qqq>I do not have non-debian things in sources.list.
22:38<somiaj>anyways we need output to give any real guess, I'm just being generic that often times there are issues with third party stuff
22:38<dpkg>you can paste to from terminal with redirections: try 'nc 9999 < /path/to/file', or 'command | nc 9999'
22:38<somiaj>but we need apt cache policy, along with all the other info in the bat factoid
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22:41<tjcarter>oh good someone set that
22:41<tjcarter>somiaj: I was showing it to folks a few weeks ago and everyone was like 😮 that's a thing?! It is indeed a thing! 😃
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22:42<tjcarter>wish termbin would echo it back out to you before the URL ala time command
22:43<qqq>now error is that file /usr/share/locale/vi/LC_MESSAGE/ is both in package kde-cli-tools-data and in kde-l10n-vi
22:44<qqq>removing either of them produces 1 billion error messages
22:44<somiaj>qqq: if you aren't going to provide actual and full output, we can't be of much help.
22:45<somiaj>,v kde-cli-tools-data
22:45<judd>Package: kde-cli-tools-data on amd64 -- stretch: 4:5.8.4-2; buster: 4:5.14.5-1; bullseye: 4:5.20.5-2; bookworm: 4:5.21.5-2; sid: 4:5.21.5-2
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22:45<somiaj>,v kde-l10n-vi
22:45<judd>No package named 'kde-l10n-vi' was found in amd64.
22:45<qqq>what usually causes like tomboy depends libproxy1v5 but is not going to be installed etc
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22:45<qqq>400 packages cant be installed because need something that is not going to be installed
22:46<somiaj>well there is at least one package there I cannot find in debian, but without output we cannot help.
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22:48<ice>Hmm, ok, well I installed firmware-realtek and rebooted, device still doesn't appear to be detected however
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22:49<qqq>seems everything is "going to be kept back", what might cause packages to be kept back?
22:50<lechner>Hi, is there a special trick to connecting Bluetooth devices to serial ports using either bluetoothctl or the Gnome widget?
22:50<qqq>aptitude search ~o lists 480 things, including "python2.6", "python3.4" etc. wtf
22:52<ice>I think I need this
22:52<ice>but not really sure how to install it
22:53<qqq>is there some general way to rescue mess in upgrade, like delete all packages system has problems with (can reinstall them later)
22:55<lechner>qqq: you could use aptitude and go through by hand
22:55<qqq>lechner: so how to remove "kde-cli-tools-data" using that
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22:56<qqq>in aptitude I see a broken package, how to remove it (both select it for it, and actually do it)?
22:57<lechner>then 'g'
22:58<qqq>g -> "soma packages were broken and have been fixed" -> ok enter ... nothing happens
22:58<ice>I am trying to build this rtl88x2bu driver after cloning the github repo, but am immediately hit with errors when I try to 'make' as per the instructions. Here is the output.
22:58<lechner>'g' again
22:58<qqq>ok now it does something
22:58*qqq award the super-unintuitive-UI award
22:58<aloo_shu>ice at the risk of saying something obvious and dumb : is there a hardware wifi switch
22:58<ice>aloo_shu: this is a USB wifi dongle, brand new, no switch
22:59<aloo_shu>ah right
22:59<qqq>lechner: no I wonder how the same might have been accomplished from cli.
22:59<aloo_shu>ice: lsusb sees it?
22:59<ice>I think I found what I need but I cannot build it
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22:59<ice>yep! Bus 001 Device 002: ID 2357:0115 TP-Link Archer T4U ver.3
23:00<somiaj>ice: what is the output if 'ip a'
23:01<ice>Doesn't show it, it needs that firmware I think.. Output:
23:01<ice>wlnsp0 or whatever is the internal wifi device that we couldn't get working
23:01<ice>its not the new one
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23:02<qqq>is there a command to uninstall everything, besides the minimal system, and then cleanly reinstall what you need after the upgrades/etc?
23:03<ejohb>ice, how did you find out which firmware you need?
23:03<somiaj>qqq: are you going to provide us with any actual output?
23:04<ice>Found a lot of mentions of this device on Google and this github project seems to be widely cited. Updated as recent as 18 days ago
23:04<somiaj>ice: it does appear that is only supported with a third party module
23:04<qqq>somiaj: it's really hard from this computer. it's offline, for start
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23:04<ejohb>also on the box of this dongle does it comes with any information about it? does it comes with a dvd to install drivers or something?
23:04<ice>But I cannot make it, it instantly fails
23:04<ice>missing some kind of dependancy
23:05<ice>I found that one too
23:05<somiaj>ice: the one you link seems to support specific kernels, and the debian 5.10 keneral is not one of them. That one there seems to support a range up to 5.14
23:05<qqq>the idea to uninstall everything is a general idea, that would make upgrades much easier, at cost of taking a bit longer of computer time
23:06<ice>somiaj: let me try now, thank you, I thought I read a comment about the cilynx one being more updated but I guess I was mistaken
23:07<somiaj>ice: I'm not quite sure, but you seem to got a card that isn't in the mainline kernel unforuntally
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23:08<ice>Exact same error as the other one
23:08<ice>doesn't even begin the make process because it can't find some kind of directory
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23:11<somiaj>I'm not familar with the directory it looks for, wonder what it expects to find there
23:14<somiaj>ice: ahh I couldn't find it in a package search, have you installed the linux-headers for your kernel (as mentioned in the readme)?
23:15<Sqrt{not}>qqq, if you think of uninstalling everything, why not just install the new version from an installer. save any non-program files you want to keep, and just re-install the new version
23:15<ice>I installed build-essential only I believe as well as something called 'bc' because scripts were complaining about it
23:15<qqq>Sqrt{not}: e.g. that keeps all settings
23:16<ice>one sec
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23:16<ejohb>ice, can you return the dongle? maybe look for one which doesnt require non free firmware, might be hard to find but its definitely worth it
23:16<ice>: Package 'linux-headers' has no installation candidate
23:16<somiaj>ice: "Make sure you have installed the corresponding kernel headers" linux-headers-686-pae
23:16<Sqrt{not}>qqq, settings would be saved in some files, wouldn't they?
23:16<somiaj>ice: you need to install the linux-headers for the kernel you are using.
23:17<ice>that worked - installing now
23:17<qqq>Sqrt{not}: in /etc/, I mean the system's settings
23:17<somiaj>ejohb: the non-free firmware isn't the issue, and really wifi is going to need non-free firmware and that isn't a bad thing. They needed to get a device whose chip is supported in the mainline kernel.
23:17<ejohb>I have two usb dongles here both need non free firmware =(
23:18<qqq>Sqrt{not}: even using existing partitioning afair is non trivial when installing over existing install, if it's complex (raid/lvm/luks)
23:18<somiaj>wifi is most likely going to need non-free firware, part of it is due to legal issues with wireless communication (the fcc in the us)
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23:18<somiaj>ejohb: and many devices that don't need userland non-free firmware, have it flashed on the device, but this makes updating it much harder.
23:19<ice>amazing! it;s building now
23:19<ejohb>somiaj, do you know h-node ?
23:19<ice>thanks for that
23:19<ice>lets see how it goes
23:19<somiaj>ejohb: I don't know that one. I do know there are a very rare set of atheos that you can flash libera firmware on.
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23:19<ejohb>seems like there is a list of stuff that doesn't require non free firmware there
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23:19<somiaj>not requring non-free firmware is not the same as not having non-free firmware or using libera firmware
23:20<ice>wifi in linux is really, really difficult eh?
23:20<ice>as a new user coming from mainly windows, this is a staggering amount of effort
23:20<somiaj>I would rather have non-free firmware, because if there is a bug in the firmware, I can get an updated file and not have to flash my device
23:20<ejohb>ice, its because debian respects your freedom, from what I understand
23:20<somiaj>ice: wifi isn't that bad, you have just had very bad luck with devices (though this is true with most hardware in linux, just some manufacture hardware isn't nicely supported)
23:20<ejohb>they choose not including non free firmware by default which some other distributions do, from what I understand
23:20<Sqrt{not}>qqq, then you are back to what somiaj has asked you for multiple times. if you insist on trying to upgrade, and you need help, you need to show us what exactly you need help with.
23:20<ejohb>could be wrong though
23:21<somiaj>ice: in debian all one often needs to do is install the correct non-free firmware.
23:21<ejohb>I mean I could be wrong
23:21<somiaj>ejohb: It has just been removed from the main repo and needs to be installed from an additional repository, this way it is clear to the user that they are installing something that doesn't meet the dfsg
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23:22<somiaj>though if one uses the firmware installer, one can often even avoid that. Yes it is an extra step, but I think it is worth it. I am not against non-free firmware, but I do like it being clear that you are installing it vs just including it.
23:22<qqq>Sqrt{not}: <qqq> the idea to uninstall everything is a general idea
23:22<somiaj>the particular device ice got seems to be they would have to compile this third party module no matter what distro they used, it isn't a firmware problem.
23:22<qqq>that would come in handy in general
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23:23<somiaj>but what about the settings of everything you remove? *hides*
23:23<mangix>somiaj: it's not just that. mobile devices benefit from power savings of doing almost everything in hardware
23:24<ejohb>somiaj, thanks for sharing your knowledge I have very limited knowledge about this firmware, modules and drivers and stuff like that I really don't know the difference between them
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23:24<qqq>somiaj: settings are not remove when you uninstall things
23:24<qqq>that is done when you --purge
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23:25<somiaj>mangix: in most cases doesn't the firmware just talk to the hardware?
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23:28<ice>holy this things still compiling
23:29<qqq>my apt is still removing
23:29<qqq>let's see what will finish first
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23:29<ice>it's a race!
23:29*qqq hopes it will axe everything besides base system and apt itself
23:29<ice>this is some high tech code
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23:30<ice>i'm gonna see if that other one makes after as well
23:30<ice>the rtl88x2bu
23:30<ice>then if it also compiles, i assume i can manually insmod one at a time and evaluate which is better / works at all ?
23:30<ice>trying to learn as I go here :)
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23:33<ejohb>ice, I know you don't really need to reboot when you install a new driver, you can use modprobe command
23:33<ejohb>but rebooting is easier I suppose but not really necessary
23:34<ejohb>a gnu/linux teacher I know says that you shouldn't reboot much because maybe one day you are working with a server then you can't really reboot it all the time because it could take long time to load up everything
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23:38<somiaj>in this case they may still need to modprobe and Iw ouldn't have rebooted just to test it out
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23:39<ejohb>there is even a saying life is too short for reboots lol
23:39<mangix>somiaj: no. it depends on the firmware. some just does some channel switching, calibration, and misc stuff. Others do rate control in firmware and handle the data path directly in firmware.
23:40<mangix>The latter is rather annoying
23:40<mangix>makes it difficult to implement bufferbloat fixes and whatnot.
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23:51<ice>ejohb: good advice! appreciate that
23:51<ice>i feel like when we come from windows we are almost expecting a reboot for literally EVERYTHING
23:51<ice>stupid thing constantly requests a restart when you install simple things
23:52<ejohb>yeah I came from Windows too, not only reboots but also reinstallations
23:53<ejohb>gnu/linux is a whole new world, but we gotta put some effort to learn to be able to enjoy it, that's what I believe and I try to practice
---Logclosed Thu Sep 30 00:00:59 2021