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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-09-30

---Logopened Thu Sep 30 00:00:59 2021
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00:17<ice>yaaaahoooo! i am finally USB cellphone tether free
00:17<ice>that rtl88x2bu works great
00:17<ice>as soon as i did the insmod 88x2bu.ko the lights kicked on right away
00:18<ice>and Gnome is nice and wifi friendly from that point
00:26<qqq>well it seems case solved, why deb 8 -> 9 upgrade is heaving strange problems
00:26<qqq>hdd is failing
00:27<qqq>well, RIP
00:29-!-boy [~boy@27.187.28.46] has joined #debian
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00:30<boy>hey guy
00:30<somiaj>ice: you should use modprobe not insmod
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00:32<somiaj>ice: in this case might not mean much, but in general modprobe is more intelligent, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22891705/whats-the-difference-between-insmod-and-modprobe
00:33<somiaj>ahh guess insmod can require you not installing the module into /lib/modules
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00:37<ice>I am not too sure myself! I was following the README.md file
00:38<ice>it said to use insmod, otherwise install some kind of DKMS thing but I don't really understand it
00:38<ice>Might be convenient though if it auto loads for me on bootup
00:38<somiaj>those are different, insmod/modprobe is for loading the module once you compile it
00:39<ice>I can try modprobe next time for sure! I didn't know what the differences were :)
00:39<somiaj>in this case since all the dependencys were loaded it didn't matter, but modprobe will load any missing depends for you
00:39<somiaj>though insmod will load it form the current directory which is nice
00:40<somiaj>dkms on the other hand is an automatical module building hook, that will trigger on kernel upgrades and automatically install and build the module for newer kernels for you, so you don't have to manually do this each time
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04:20<larjona>hello, I see there are a lot of chess programs in Debian, anybody can advice about the most used one? I need it to be able to read .cba and .cbv files and, if possible, the same program available also in Windows
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04:28<tjcarter>larjona: might have to wait for a good answer to that one at this hour
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04:29<larjona>no problem, I can wait, thanks. Also asked in #debian-games
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04:30<BCMM>Is there any publicly-available information about why Blender is built without OpenImageDenoise? (see #975318) Would efforts to package its irritating dependency chain help, or is there something like a DSFG issue preventing it?
04:30<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/975318 in blender (open): «blender: please build blender with intel openimage denoise (https://www.openimagedenoise.org/)»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2020-11-20; last modified: 2020-11-20.
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04:31<BCMM>(i'm kind of asking more about Debian processes than this specific package; i.e. I'd like to know how i'm supposed to find out things like this)
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04:32<BCMM>(is there a mailing list or something, etc.)
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04:33<tjcarter>BCMM: A good guess as to the reason … that was asked late last year, during a freeze
04:33<tjcarter>,v blender
04:33<judd>Package: blender on amd64 -- stretch: 2.79.b+dfsg0-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 2.79.b+dfsg0-1~deb9u1; buster: 2.79.b+dfsg0-7; buster-backports: 2.82.a+dfsg-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.83.5+dfsg-5+b2; bookworm: 2.93.4+dfsg-1+b1; sid: 2.93.4+dfsg-1+b2
04:34<tjcarter>hm, I wonder that it hasn't been fixed since
04:34<BCMM>tjcarter: i would imagine that the decision was made before then, probably when upstream first started using oidn
04:35<tjcarter>possibly, but if the developer was intending not to offer it, the bug might've been closed as wontfix by now
04:35<BCMM>oidn isn't packaged, and neither is the compiler that oidn depends on
04:35<tjcarter>ah, that is probably why then
04:35<tjcarter>license is free software?
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04:36<BCMM>oidn is apache and ispc is bsd, as far as i understand
04:36<tjcarter>it may be that the dev who does blender doesn't want to package it, but is keeping the bug open for when someone else does.
04:37<tjcarter>I think I left a couple of bugs like that in SDL for awhile
04:37<tjcarter>SDL 1.2 supported everything at the time
04:37<tjcarter>but a lot of it could be divided into "core" functions, with the rest falling into "who uses this crap?"
04:37<tjcarter>but there was an -all version of SDL
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04:38<tjcarter>some of it … get someone to package it, give me a test I can run to verify it works once in awhile, and I'll support it.
04:38<tomgie>Hey everyone, I believe I might have found a possible bug and so far I was unable to pinpoint the origin, so it's hard to file a bug report to the correct spot. Is there anyone around I could discuss this with and who might guide me in the right direction? It's related to the CPU frequency readings (by turbostat). The bug is kernel version independent, but there is a difference of up to several hundred MHz between Buster and Bullseye. I already tried
04:38<tomgie>to rule out as many possibilities as possible (turbostat version, governer, kernel version, and some other variables)
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04:39<tjcarter>tomgie: your best bet is to have the discussion right here in channel. None of us knows everything
04:40<tomgie>sure, no problem. just want to void spamming the channel too much :)
04:40<tjcarter>that's why we tell people talking about NON-topic things to go somewhere else to do that.
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04:41<tomgie>alright ... which kind of information would be helpful in this case? I can provide as much detail as you'd like, e.g. graphs of the frequency differences between the different Debian versions as a starter?
04:41<tjcarter>at this precise hour, it's a little early in the day in parts of Europe and late in the US … so it might be awhile before the majority of English-speaking users are around to discuss it.
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04:42<tomgie>I've tested both in our custom Debian install as well as a vanilla Debian 10 and 11 install and Ubuntu 21.04 for comparison.
04:42<tjcarter>I'm not sure actually. I don't pay that close of attention to my CPU's clocks
04:42*tjcarter has newer CPU than used to have, goes brrr 4x as many brrrs as old CPU
04:43<tjcarter>😁
04:43<tomgie>Well to play with an open hand, because there is no hiding anyways, I'm working at a major hosting provider and am responsible for our internal testing and internal network booted Debian OS, so I kind of have to deal with this :D
04:43<tjcarter>Yup, totally understand. Performance metrics matter to a lot of folks
04:44<tjcarter>and if you've gotta manage hosted stuff, you need to know how the systems are performing, downtime's money.
04:44<tomgie>It's not just the performance, it's also QA ... we need to make sure that each server is still up to the task which is determined by temperature metrics and also which frequency is achieved
04:44*tjcarter may have exaggerated his ignorance of these things just a tad.
04:45<tomgie>tbh I've read so much documentation around software sided power management in the last days, going on the IRC for the first time since 10 years was my last resort
04:45<tjcarter>I imagine if you have graphs of the data you're seeing vs. what's actually supposed to be showing, that might be useful
04:46<tomgie>what's the best practice of sharing images with you guys?
04:46<tomgie>nvm let me upload them to my server
04:46<tjcarter>links are usually good
04:47<tjcarter>we also benefit from pastebins to minimize clutter and flood
04:47*tjcarter is personally a fan of termbin.com since one can | nc termbin.com 9999 from … er, a terminal. 🙂
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04:50<tomgie>https://tomgie.de/freq_compare.svg you can hide or show different values, the debian-11_[...] and debian-1010_[...] are vanilla debian installs, debian-1010_5-10 is a Debian 10 with "original" Bullseye Kernel
04:50<tomgie>(you can hide or show by clicking the square before each entry below the graph)
04:51<tjcarter>That should hopefully help folks who pop in in a bit
04:51<tomgie>the tests were performed on the same machine without any adjustments to hardware or bios
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04:52<BCMM>there's also pastebinit, which accepts piped input and (on debian) defaults to using Debian's pastebin
04:52<BCMM>(not for images though, sorry)
04:53<tjcarter>Debian's pastebin needs dark theme support
04:53<Unit193>base64!
04:53<tjcarter>Debian's whole website needs th…
04:54*tjcarter smacks Unit193 with a uuencode
04:54<tomgie>you can see that any tests with any Bullseye setup show a lower frequency than any other tests. The load on the system is stress -c <number of available threads> over 15 minutes (x axis is time)
04:54<tjcarter>*ahem* irc is still irc after 10 years tomgie 😀
04:55<tomgie>so is anything else no matter which kind of communication you use :D
04:55<tomgie>reddit, facebook, $forum, etc :)
04:56<tjcarter>irc and the occasional forum are the only ones of those I'll occasionally use
04:56<tjcarter>jelly: if you're about, have you any ideas?
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05:30<BCMM>tjcarter: thanks.
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05:30<BCMM>i suppose what i'm trying to work out is whether trying to get ispc packaged would be a waste of time
05:31<BCMM>1) is that sort of package a bad place to get started with packaging for debian? 2) would anybody even accept it? 3) would it actually help with Blender?
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05:34<tjcarter>BCMM: Depends on how complex the package is, I'm not sure actually. The easiest packages are a single package that produces a simple binary for one host arch (and doesn't need to be cross-compiled or anything), ideally with some easy build process like the typical ./configure && make && <become root> make install
05:34<tjcarter>debhelper almost does that for you.
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06:18<BCMM>thanks. i'll have a look and see how bad it is
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06:19<BCMM>this bug has me slightly encouraged, since it provides a solid reason that it wasn't possible when upstream blender first introduced it https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=956966
06:19<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/956966 in src:llvm-toolchain-10 (closed): «Please enable DLLVM_ENABLE_DUMP»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2020-04-17; last modified: 2021-01-06.
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06:34<tjcarter>BCMM: ah, I think we're moving to llvm 11 in sid, so that might help matters
06:34<BCMM>that one's already fixed
06:35<tjcarter>yeah, it was fixed with llvm 10
06:35<BCMM>i mentioned it because it potentially explains why it was left out when it first became possible to build blender with oidn
06:35<tjcarter>probably
06:35<tjcarter>it only changed last year
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06:44<tjcarter>BCMM: when you get tired of dealing with the troll, !ops <reason> will summon someone to remove him
06:45<tjcarter>most of the same folks in charge live on both OFTC and libera
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06:46<tjcarter>I'm just about 100% positive he's NOT actually asking for help, "dude". "what's a firewall", "I just love opening ports" … yeah, troll.
06:47<BCMM>sort of leaning that way too
06:47<tjcarter>he did say he didn't use windows
06:47<tjcarter>now he's talking about how he only used winscp …
06:48<BCMM>there are people who say "dude" way too much to try and project a particular sort of image, and there are people who say "utilize" way too much to try to project a particular sort of image
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06:48<BCMM>and those are usually different guys
06:49<tjcarter>it's some doof with too much time on their hands
06:50<tjcarter>my general philosophy is … I'm part chaos knight. Enjoy the amusement. But if it starts disrupting anyone actually looking for help, a chanop should be notified to end the disruption.
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06:50<tjcarter>oh nevermind, jelly's got him
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06:59<tomgie>tjcarter: Any ideas what else I could do to get some help with my problem? :)
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07:07<tjcarter>tomgie: check back in probably about 4 hours would be my best guess. It's been a really quiet night in #debian … there's been more people on the libera.chat channel but … I wouldn't call what's going on there exactly high quality conversation about Debian just now
07:07<tjcarter>unless they're ready to toss the troll
07:07<tjcarter>it's 4am here, I need some sleep before work (which isn't til afternoon, but still)
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07:08<bremner>tomgie: you could try the debian-user mailing list
07:10<tjcarter>BCMM: dude, g'night dude … 🤣
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07:27<tomgie>well ... I'll leave my IRC running and check back tomorrow morning CEST - thanks anyways so far! :)
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08:32<Noob4242>hello. good morning. I just made my first bootable usb using Rufus ( years ago before UEFI I'd just install native to the ext usb )
08:32<Noob4242>ummm I'm a Noob. I've dabbled w/ Ubuntu and Mint. First time Debian (attempted) user.
08:33<Noob4242>So, I get these error msgs at boot:
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08:33<bremner>!rufus
08:33<dpkg>rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. Debian CD/DVD images MUST be written in "DD Mode," otherwise it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
08:34<Noob4242>[drm:amdgpu_cpi_probe[amdgpu[[ *ERROR* ...
08:34<Noob4242>I'm on windows. My Mint install is in a VM. Where to from here?
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08:35<bremner>Noob4242: did you use "DD Mode"?
08:35<Noob4242>In Rufus?
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08:39<Noob4242>@bremner, DD mode removed and is now ... I'm assuming "automated". Again, I've never used Rufus before.
08:39<bremner>sorry, that's all I know.
08:39<Noob4242>if I may ...
08:40<Noob4242>is there a way to check the install afterwards to see if "dd mode" was used?
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08:47<BCMM>in general, it's a really good idea to just not use Rufus, and to discourage others from using it
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08:50<Noob4242>@BCMM - from what I gather, and I'm a noob, I don't think Rufus was/is the prob. The error ( snippet above ) existed before for others
08:50<Noob4242>Not sure how to bypass the requirement for non-free drivers on a live linux
08:51<Noob4242>How to make a bootable debian live usb from windows?
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08:52<BCMM>i'd use win32diskimager or balena etcher. but it sounds like you're right that this isn't actually Rufus damage
08:52<mjt>which non-free drivers for example?
08:52<Noob4242>first error ( line 1 of 5 ):
08:52<Noob4242>[drm:amdgpu_cpi_probe[amdgpu[[ *ERROR* amdgpu requires firmware installed
08:53<mjt>that's firmware not drivers
08:53<mjt>you said drivers
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08:53<Noob4242>OK. Firmware
08:53<Noob4242>I followed link in 2nd line to:
08:53<Noob4242>https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware
08:53<BCMM>ah, you kind of truncated that message before
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08:54<sussudio>is this bushmaster again
08:54<BCMM>Noob4242: what do you get after that error? does the installer fail to start?
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08:54<Noob4242>but I don't see anything AMD based and again, why the need? & How to make or maybe alter?? a Live USB?
08:54<Noob4242>Yeah, it hangs after the 5th line
08:55<BCMM>Noob4242: there's an unofficial debian install ISO with firmware files included
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08:55<Noob4242>first 3 are about AMD 2nd 2 errors are about r8169
08:55<Noob4242>If bushmaster is a "person", then no, I am not them.
08:55<Noob4242>First time on octc.
08:56<Noob4242>I'm Ou42 on freenode, but I'm not that active.
08:56<mjt>I always used text-mode install.. don't even know how gui version looks like :)
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08:57<Noob4242>@BCMM - So, I was too eager and should have gone w/ ver 10. Too many moving parts? Unless the unofficial is already made?!
08:57<Noob4242>@mjt - live usb install w/ persistence from the cmd line?
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08:58<mjt>the installer has curses interface. not the live one, no, and not from command line
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08:59<Noob4242>@mjt pardon my noobness, but when you say "installer" do you mean already running the live iso and then installing from it?
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09:00<mjt>i mean the installer image not a "live iso"
09:00<Noob4242>there's a difference?!
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09:00*Noob4242 goes and looks
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09:02<Noob4242>I'm still a couple miles behind, but pls bare with...
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09:03<Noob4242>Just found the ISO's @BCMM mentioned...
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09:03<Noob4242>what's the diff between bt-hybrid and iso-hybrid?
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09:04<Noob4242>nvm
09:04<Noob4242>bt = bit torrent
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09:07<Noob4242>What alt to Rufus is recommended?
09:07<Noob4242>I'd like to have persistence
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09:15<Noob4242>... gonna try Rufus again
09:15<Noob4242>... w/ the non-free iso
09:18<Noob4242>I've got more noob Q's...
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09:18<Noob4242>Does persistence persist apt updates?
09:18<jeremiah>Hybrid ISOs are able to boot from different media, like a USB stick or SD Card.
09:19<Noob4242>... or is it just a way to save ones personal files?
09:19<Noob4242>@jeremiah, gotcha! tyvm.
09:19<mjt>Noob4242: out of curiocity, where did you get this @notation from? On irc this doesn't work
09:20<mjt>Noob4242: it works this way (by putting your name in the beginning of the line),
09:20<Noob4242>mjt, I forget. Maybe Discord?
09:20<jeremiah>np!
09:20<mjt>Noob4242, or this way
09:20<mjt>dunno about discord.. i found they're a bunch of gross liars
09:21<Noob4242>mjt, labeling an entire whatever is well labeling. I use Discord for trying to learn Functional Programming. Lots of servers there for that.
09:22<mjt>I mean the discord thing itself, not the people who use it
09:22<mjt>just their registration process is a lie after lie after lie...
09:22<Noob4242>mjt, perhaps. I dunno. I have a very tiny social media presence.
09:23<mjt>(tho to be fair, it seems nowadays every social media is lying like this..)
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09:23<mjt>but this has nothing to do with debian.. ;)
09:24<Noob4242>ha!
09:24<Noob4242>well gonna go try this. TTFN ( Tah Tah For Now )
09:24<Noob4242>thanks for all the fish
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09:42<Ou42>I'm baaaaack!! yeah baby! It worked! ( I was previously known as Noob4242 or something similar )
09:43<Ou42>So, KDE Debian doesn't include an IRC app by default?!
09:43<mjt>you aren't noob anymore? :)
09:43<petn-randall>Ou42: Probably not, but you can simply install all those tools afterwards.
09:43<Ou42>It required me to change my nick and I didn't want to confuse the locals prior ( while getting help ). I'm an Eternal Noob. Movie's coming out soon.
09:44<Ou42>I'm new to KDE too. Too many moving parts. But tiny fam w/ Mint which has some Debian roots, right?
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09:44<Ou42>I've always picked xfce in the past and look out for "lite" distros in the past
09:45<mjt>btw, why people use derivates - like mint debian edition or many other variants - instead of original debian?
09:45<Ou42>simple
09:45<Ou42>FEAR
09:45<Ou42>or if you prefer FUD
09:45<Ou42>Besides, Mint has that awesome one liner which I'll mangle, but something like, "Mint dosesn't leave that bad taste in your mouth."
09:45<mjt>fear of using some strange additional thing of unknown quality and being unable to update?
09:46*Ou42 shrugs. dunno. Debian seemed more elite. Mint more noob friendly.
09:46<mjt>(I'm not trolling, far from it, I'm curious, I really want to know)
09:47<Ou42>I tried Ubuntu ... actually Xubuntu, but we're talking *years* ago.
09:47<Ou42>and Mint 19 and 20
09:47<Ou42>but in a VM. I really don't like UEFI and how it makes things harder.
09:47<mjt>uefi isn't making things harder really, one just have to get used to it, that's all
09:48<Ou42>perhaps, but ...
09:48<Ou42>dual boot and Windows ( sure blame them. fine, but before UEFI I don't think I ever had an issue )
09:48<mjt>a few of my friends asked me for help with their systems where they installed various debian derivates. At first it seems all is ok, but when you go to the details you discover that soms stuff just doesn't work - it works on debian but not on that distro..
09:49<Ou42>Windows updated and wiped out the boot what? partition?! in UEFI and I lose my Linux.
09:49<mjt>heh
09:49<mjt>lovely
09:49<sussudio>yes, it will do that if you don't install windows first and boot linux from windows.
09:49<Ou42>VM ended up working better for me. I didn't have to reboot. :oD
09:49<Ou42>until ...
09:50<Ou42>I found out that Windows has "Directory Junctions" and I put the VM's on an ext ssd but Win doesn't know it.
09:50<Ou42>then Win resets the drive letter of the ext ssd.
09:50<Ou42>I haven't made any symlinks and yet I make a Dir Junction in Windows first. Go figure!
09:51<mjt>and the windows horror story goes on and on... ;)))
09:51<Ou42>Yup! I'm trying this because of BSoDs
09:51<Ou42>I don't want to troubleshoot Windows. If I have to spend time learning things, might as well be Linux.
09:52<Ou42>Hoping it isn't hw related
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09:53<Ou42>The VM thing is interesting in that I have successfully run it from 2 different machines.
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09:58<Ou42>BCMM: tyvm. the non-free worked.
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09:59<Ou42>and for gurus near and far, Rufus worked. ( I dunno about sha256 on rufus, but Avast said it didn't have any malware. *shrugs* )
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10:02<mipo>what is the best way to keep debian 11 updated, both base and packages? (i'm realy new into debian)
10:02<bremner>unattended-upgrades works pretty well
10:03<mipo>is there a difference between _update_ and _upgrade" ?
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10:04<sussudio>mipo: yes, there is a difference between horses ans frogs.
10:04<bremner>mipo: maybe I got the package name wrong
10:05<mjt>mipo: update d/loads the list of packages available on the debian archive. Upgrade installs packages to your systrem
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10:06<mipo>ok, is there any link among all these: apt update, apt upgrade, Gnome Software, Synaptic Package Manager, Software & Update?
10:07<Ou42>What say y'all for a comfortable "full" install w/ more than one ... uhh what do you call them? GUI? So, say KDE + XFCE + 1 or 2 more? would a 256GB ssd be enough?
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10:08<sussudio>Ou42: it will probably fit on less than 8GB.
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10:08<mipo>0u42: not even a new game on Windows can eat that much of your SSD
10:10<Ou42>sussudio: Cool. tyvm. I guess I'm desensatized to bloat. ;o)
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10:22<BCMM>Ou42: i think the term is "desktop environment"
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10:27<sussudio>Ou42: i just checked on a recently installed laptop with about the same stuff installed, and it's 6.3GB, and i think that includes swap.
10:28<Ou42>sussudio: OK, good to know. I should probably read the install guide...
10:30<Ou42>aww I missed mipo's comment.
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10:40<Ou42>brb
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10:43<Ou42>testing out a dark theme for konversation per:
10:43<Ou42>https://forum.garudalinux.org/t/dark-theme-for-kde-konversation-irc/2750
10:44<Ou42>Anyway, thanks again for all the help! I s'pose I'll need to try to recreate the situation where Windows would BSoD, but it wasn't consistent.
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11:01<gagath>hi, can someone have `sudo apt install -t experimental neovim` work?
11:01<gagath>I have the following error: ` Depends: neovim-runtime (= 0.4.4-1) but 0.5.0-1 is to be installed`
11:02<gagath>(I *want* 0.5.0-1 on my unstable system)
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11:02<sussudio>this isn't the channel for unstable.
11:02<gagath>ah
11:02<gagath>#debian-unstable then?
11:02<sussudio>!debian-next
11:02<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on libera.chat. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc
11:02<gagath>thanks
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11:04<netcrash>Hello, I'm trying to install debian on a 9240 8i card with several disks , already upgraded the firmware , but the system does not detect the disks... What am I missing?
11:07<mjt>does the system load the drivers for the controller?
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11:08<sussudio>what is a 9240 8i card
11:08<mjt>lsilogic
11:08<sussudio>sounds like something adaptec
11:08<sussudio>SAS?
11:08<mjt>yes
11:08<sussudio>hm
11:08<sussudio>!lsi
11:08<sussudio>what does it say exactly
11:09<sussudio>missing firmware maybe?
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11:11<mjt>aic94xx.ko wants aic94xx-seq.fw
11:11<mjt>is it the one?
11:11<sussudio>google sends me here: https://wiki.debian.org/LinuxRaidForAdmins
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11:39<netcrash>sussudio: missing firmware
11:40<netcrash>sussudio: not sure
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11:40<netcrash>it uses the megaraid module
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11:40<netcrash>does not say anything about missing firmware
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11:42<cjg>hi
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11:43<mjt>netcrash: one of possible reasons. I've seen megaraid _card_ needs some settings to enable jbod mode too. And there was at least one case when jbod mode required additional _license_
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11:44<mjt>and no, it does not need firmware
11:45<netcrash>mjt: the card already has jbod
11:45<netcrash>windows detects the disks
11:46<mjt>do take a look at dmesg
11:46<mjt>so*
11:46<netcrash>will do
11:46<netcrash>thank you
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12:34<ice>I have still not been successful in compiling the IRC client I was hoping to use, it still keeps saying it cannot find my OpenSSL support with -lcrypto when I run ./configure
12:34<ice>but libssl-dev and openssl are both installed!
12:35<ice>What is -lcrypto a part of ?
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12:35<bremner>openssl, probably
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12:35<bremner>try libssl-dev
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12:35<ice>I've installed both already :(
12:35<another>gnutls?
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12:36<ice>checking for SSLeay in -lcrypto... no
12:36<ice>configure: WARNING: OpenSSL not found, will not have SSL support.
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12:36<bremner>sounds like a build system problem
12:36<ice>let me try that!
12:36<petn-randall>ice: Which client are you trying to build? It might be antique and not work with current openssl.
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12:36<ice>petn-randall: it's a vintage client from the 2000's called BitchX
12:36<bremner>omg.
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12:37<petn-randall>called it.
12:37<ice>http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitchx/files/ircii-pana/bitchx-1.2.1/bitchx-1.2.1.tar.gz/download
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12:38<another>are you sure you want that? last i heard was bitchx is not manintained
12:38<juergen_roesel[m]>Hi. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong with grub or how I can diagnose it? I have some custom script that installs a system to a usb stick, with debootstrap, later also grub-install. When I boot it, it shows me the "Minimal BASH-like line editing is supported. [...]" prompt, but not the actual boot menu. Interestingly, when I then just enter "normal" there, everything is fine. But what leads to this behavior?
12:38<petn-randall>ice: You can try installing a distro in a VM from that era, and might have luck compiling it. Or you could use a IRC client that's from this decade.
12:38<petn-randall>ice: irssi is close to bitchx and quite nice.
12:38<ice>I'm using irssi right now, don't really care for it
12:38<ice>I miss the artwork and color scheme
12:39<ice>this is pretty ugly
12:39<petn-randall>ice: good luck with your adventure then. :)
12:39<ice>thanks :)
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12:55<Ou42>is this logged?
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12:56<Ou42>can I search past #debian chat?
12:56<simonpatapon>what day do you need
12:56<simonpatapon>maybe i can help
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12:56<Ou42>simonpatapon: just in general. I've got to shut down and I don't know konversation and/or if it logged today's chat
12:57<ejohb>ice, did you manage to fix the wifi issue?
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13:01<Ou42>g2g
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13:09<ice>ejohb: Yes! Well, depends which wifi issue you mean
13:10<ice>I could *not* get the original wifi card from the EEEPC working (rt2800pci) but I bought a $20 stick called ARCHER T4U
13:10<ice>and managed to get the 3rd party driver compiled & inserted
13:10<ice>working great
13:10<ice>using it now :)
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13:10<ice>just working on compiling this IRC client now
13:10<ice>giving me grief
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13:11<ice>https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49929780/could-not-find-openssl-when-compiling-bitchx
13:11<ice>according to this post, which reads identically to mine, it needs something called libssl1.0-dev
13:12<ice>but I get this error when I try to install it
13:12<ice>: Package 'libssl1.0-dev' has no installation candidate
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13:17<jkc>That went away after stretch, I believe.
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13:18<somiaj>ice: why are you trying to compile an old not havily used irc client, just use irssi
13:18<somiaj>and it sounds like it even depends on old dead libaries.
13:19<sussudio>more like undead.
13:20<somiaj>my switch from bitchx to irssi 10+ years ago was smooth, and in the end I found I liked irssi more
13:20<somiaj>though I guess I don't get random quit messages anymore, oh well.
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13:20<somiaj>(I mean I could enable it, but I don't need to spread sass)
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13:21<sussudio>i don't really quit that much. mostly when i'm forced to reboot or one of the libs are replaced.
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13:32<troethe>Hey, I have my firewall defined in /etc/nftables.conf, but it seems like systemd starts the firewall before all the interfaces are up. nft then complains, that wlan0, which is mentioned in a rule, doesn't exist and dies. What do?
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13:35<sussudio>troethe: this is the new normal. just accept that you no longer have wifi.
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13:36<troethe>sussudio: I accepted this fate quite some time ago. Today I felt like being a big boy and actually solving this problem.
13:36<somiaj>troethe: how do you bring up your wifi interface?
13:37<troethe>somiaj: idk? How do interfaces usually get brought up in debian?
13:37<somiaj>troethe: there are multiple ways, which is why I asked. I personally use the interfaces file, but many use network-manager or some other similar tool
13:38<scorpion2185[m]>how can I edit openbox right click menu graphically?
13:38<sussudio>wat
13:38<bremner>you might need to ask an openbox specific support channel
13:38<bremner>also, the question sounds nonsensical, but what do I know about openbox
13:38<scorpion2185[m]>what happened to obmenu pkg?
13:38<troethe>I think I actually figured it out. There are two options in nft. 'iif' and 'iifname', the former also works with not-yet-existing interfaces
13:39<bremner>scorpion2185[m]: check tracker.debian.org
13:39<scorpion2185[m]>I know that there is no more version since bullseye can I use old version?
13:39<somiaj>troethe: oh nice, my suggestion was to also add post-up hooks to how you bring your interface up and only activate the rules at that time
13:39<scorpion2185[m]>why devs did this?
13:40<sussudio>,v openbox
13:40<judd>Package: openbox on amd64 -- stretch: 3.6.1-4; buster: 3.6.1-8; bookworm: 3.6.1-9+deb11u1; bullseye: 3.6.1-9+deb11u1; sid: 3.6.1-9+deb11u1
13:40<troethe>somiaj: Btw I use the interface files. It's actually on a raspberry pi with debian installed. Don't have NetworkManager
13:40<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: did you check the tracker and see what sort of bugs.
13:40<troethe>somiaj: Out of curiosity, which process actually reads the interface files?
13:40<somiaj>troethe: then you can add custom post-up scripts that will run after the interface is brought up, this way you can only enable that part of the firewall at the time the interface is brought up. Though seems you have also found another solution.
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13:41<somiaj>troethe: networking.service runs 'ifup --allow auto' at boot, to bring up all 'auto' interfaces.
13:41<somiaj>if you use allow-hotplug, udev calls ifup when a new device is registered with it
13:42<troethe>Ahh thanks. Was always curious how this worked
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13:54<ice>somiaj: it's mostly a cosmetic choice
13:54<ice>I don't care for the look of IRSSI, I find the basic theme especially ugly
13:55<ice>I'm browsing irssi themes now, a few look ok
13:55<ice>nothing nearly as eye catching as the BitchX days
13:55<ice>I used to love ANSI and ASCII art
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13:55<ice>I'll probably have to stick with irssi by the sounds of it but I'm not a fan at all
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14:00<XF>hello there how can i clear all temp files in debian?
14:01<XF>like windows have %temp% and temp folders
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14:09<ice>Is there anyone here familiar with Firefox ESR that comes with Debian? I am having a big problem with extensions that have drop down menus larger than my resolution permits. There appears to be no way to scroll down to the bottom of the box to view the rest of the screen
14:09<ice>https://imgur.com/OzMhWue
14:09<ice>As you can see in this screenshot, I cannot view the bottom of my extension where there are some options I need to click
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14:21<Sqrt{not}>FWIW, and contrary to what Ou42/Noob4242 reported, the current/latest Rufus, version 3.15, as tested by me on August 27, does still have the DD mode / ISO mode choice, and the ISO mode does still alter the image written
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14:58<dummy>hi
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15:13<jkc>Sqrt{not}: That's always been the case.
15:13<jkc>Rufus hasn't changed how it's handled Debian ISOs in... years, aside from the addition of the DD mode option.
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15:14<jkc>So if someone is asserting that ISO mode works just fine and dandy and doesn't mangle the ISO, they are quite incorrect, and demonstrably so.
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15:22<tjcarter>,v unison
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15:22<judd>Package: unison on amd64 -- stretch: 2.48.3-1+b1; buster: 2.48.4-1+b1; bookworm: 2.51.3+1; bullseye: 2.51.3+1; sid: 2.51.3+1
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15:27<tjcarter>hm, that looks like it's not going to work, too unstable an interface
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15:33<jkc>tjcarter: In what sense?
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15:36<somiaj>I think the issue with things like rufus or other tools is they some times work, and sometimes don't, so some may not notice any issue.
15:36<jkc>somiaj: Well, dd mode *always* works, so I'm not sure why we'd ever recommend otherwise.
15:37<tjcarter>jkc: I have a user who's got the tech skill of a kumquat who is "getting a new computer" and is going to just about guaranteed ask for help moving data to it from an unknown (obsolete) version of Linux Mint, probably 17 or 18, I don't know which, and I'm likely to try to help accomplish this task remotely for said user by walking them through it
15:37<tjcarter>…over Google Meet.
15:37<tjcarter>Unison has just a few too many variables.
15:37<jkc>tjcarter: Oof. So you're trying to find a low-complexity tool for data transfer.
15:37<somiaj>jkc: well the install guide actually recommends cp, but for those not in linux already, they seem to find all these tools that work for some and not others.
15:38<tjcarter>I mean, if it didn't require possibly teaching a user to install opensshd on Windows, rsync is what I'd use.
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15:38<jkc>somiaj: Sorry, more specific: The rufus tool has a dd mode that performs a bit-identical write to media, rather than its normal ISO mode wherein it tries to be smart.
15:38<jkc>somiaj: For writing an image in Windows via rufus, dd mode is the only thing we should be recommending.
15:38<somiaj>oh yea, I wish more tools would add a 'dd' mode like rufus.
15:38<tjcarter>The issue with rufus is figuring out how to configure it for exactly what you want
15:38<Sqrt{not}>jkc, right. the location of the DD mode selector moves around from version to version, and some users report that Rufus works OK for them in ISO mode; but the image written is different from the source image, and thus is no longer the actual debian image.
15:39<jkc>tjcarter: For a dd-mode iso write, its simple. Select iso, select storage, go, and it pops up and asks.
15:39<tjcarter>I'd LOVE a tool with the features Rufus provides (particularly for Windows users) on Linux.
15:39<jkc>Sqrt{not}: I don't remember the dd mode prompt ever moving or changing. I could be wrong, though.
15:39<tjcarter>I've had to explain using woeusb-ng to a few folks, and why the GUI didn't work and they needed to use the CLI
15:40<tjcarter>woeusb-ng works better than it used to, even the GUI.
15:40<jkc>tjcarter: If they have a modern version of Windows 10, opensshd is there by default.
15:40<tjcarter>jkc: yes, have to enable it though
15:40<jkc>Looking for the daemon or the client?
15:40<jkc>Obviously the daemon, based on the question. -_-
15:41<tjcarter>I mean I could hope she just gets another Free Geek machine and it has Mint 20.2 for her
15:41<tjcarter>rsync, 2 commands, reboot, done.
15:42<jkc>OH, right, forgot you had to enable OpenSSH Server as a separate feature.
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15:44<jkc>Of course, the idea of allowing remote shell access to a Windows box makes my heart rate go skyward.
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16:03<RoyK>I'm running kvm/libvirt and if I give a VM 1GB RAM, it only shows 800MB. I can understand that there'll be some overhead, but 200MB??
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16:11<xoddf2>Is there a way to disable XScreenSaver's systemd support?
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16:11<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
16:12<cousin_luigi>Pardon the off-topic, but has libera been hacked at dns level?
16:12<sussudio>why do you ask
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16:13<jkc>xoddf2: Any particular reason?
16:14<sussudio>is prince dipshit at it again?
16:14<jkc>RoyK: Did you give it 1000MB or 1024MB?
16:14<cousin_luigi>sussudio: My connection has suddently failed and now I see irc.libera.net resolving to chat.freenode.net and joseon.kr
16:14<xoddf2>jkc: It keeps running xscreensaver-command -quiet -deactivate for an unknown reason.
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16:14<sussudio>cousin_luigi: it's libera.chat
16:14<cc>irc.libera.net has nothing to do with libera
16:15<cc>the official address to connect to is show on the official website https://libera.chat/
16:15<sussudio>cousin_luigi: prince dipshit was such a sore loser, he bought libera.net from some italian company, because everyone left freenode after he hijaaked it
16:15<RoyK>jkc: 1024
16:15<cousin_luigi>oh christ
16:15<jkc>RoyK: Then I'm not sure, I've never seen that level of overhead.
16:15<RoyK>jkc: it doesn't matter, really what I give it - it eats a chunk of about 200 megs anyway
16:16<sussudio>he only has hit bitcoins for company, nobody likes him
16:16<RoyK>jkc: 640 to this small vm only running squid - free says 414596
16:16<jkc>Yeah, I've never seen that.
16:16<RoyK>this is stock buster
16:17<sussudio>like that Sweet song
16:17<jkc>RoyK: Oh, I'm not denying that. I've just never seen that myself, so I can't help much.
16:17<RoyK>jkc: how much do you get with your VMs?
16:17<cc>if kernel makes memory reservations, dmesg will contain mentions of them, with sizes
16:17<cousin_luigi>ok, I'm safe
16:17<cousin_luigi>goodnight peeps!
16:17<cc>perhaps you should inspect the boot logs
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16:18<jkc>RoyK: 1014M or something? I'd have to look.
16:20<RoyK>jkc: please do
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16:21<cc>crashkernel/kdump is one possible reason
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16:25<RoyK>https://paste.debian.net/1213903/
16:25-!-ahso [~Thunderbi@0002b3cf.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: bye]
16:25<RoyK>and free https://paste.debian.net/1213904/
16:28<cc>is that the host dmesg?
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16:28<RoyK>vm
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16:29<cc>line 137: [to. sep. 30 22:22:58 2021] Memory: 2131444K/8388076K available (12295K kernel code, 2544K rwdata, 7552K rodata, 2396K init, 3700K bss, 275700K reserved, 0K cma-reserved)
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16:31<RoyK>cc: sorry - it was set to 8GB max, 640MB allocated
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16:32<RoyK>cc: now that's curious - if setting a hard limit of 640, free now says 612108
16:32<RoyK>so some overhead, ok, but not 200MB
16:32<cc>what is this 'hard limit' and how are you setting it?
16:33<cc>as far as I know, configuring libvirt VMs is done with a text editor using `virsh edit` - are you using something else?
16:34<jkc>virt-manager is a common one.
16:35<cc>the goalposts are moving at an alarming speed so who knows
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16:36<RoyK>cc: virt-manager https://karlsbakk.net/virt-manager-mem.png
16:36<RoyK>here from another machine
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16:53<verfes>how to exit irssi lmao
16:54<imMute>/quit byeeee
16:54<verfes>thx owo byee
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16:54<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... had an "INTERNATIONAL" call - from Leicester!
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17:06<sussudio>EmleyMoor: commies?
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17:08<EmleyMoor>sussudio: No idea as to content. My * dialplan autoblacklists "falsely INTERNATIONAL" calls.
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17:10<sussudio>EmleyMoor: i had a few of those with some asian indians pretending they were from microsoft. you just have to say fuck at least 3 times, that allows them to hang up. i used more than 3.
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17:25<asdasdasd>I'm trying to change timezone, but I'm getting error: Failed to query server: Failed to activate service 'org.freedesktop.timedate1': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)
17:25<asdasdasd>timedatectl command
17:25<asdasdasd>Debian 11
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17:29<ejohb>asdasdasd, hi, did you try dpkg-reconfigure tzdata ?
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17:30<asdasdasd>I just did that, this one works, but why timedatectl gives that error
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17:34<imMute>you might want to check journalctl to see if there is any more info about why the service wouldn't start
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17:35<zoke>dbus issue perhaps?
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17:37<zoke>timedatectl won't work if there is no dbus-daemon running
17:37<asdasdasd>systemctl status dbus-daemon Unit dbus-daemon.service could not be found.
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17:40<zoke>stay happy and use the old ways :p
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17:42<ejohb>Hey friends, if I want to update a buster installation to bullseye, should I first uninstall buster backports packages I have in it?
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17:44<mjt>ejohb: it isn't usually needed
17:46<ejohb>mjt, I didn't install anything outside Debian repositories, so it should be smooth sailing right? :-) thanks for the reply
17:47<mjt>yes, it should be okay
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17:50<ejohb>thank you :-)
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18:00<Sqrt{not}>ejohb, if you haven't, take a look at the release notes: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/
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18:10<ejohb>Sqrt{not}, thanks, thats very interesting read
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18:18<A|an>Is postfix installed by default in Bullseye?
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18:20<sussudio>,i postfix
18:20<judd>Package postfix (mail, optional) in bullseye/amd64: High-performance mail transport agent. Version: 3.5.6-1+b1; Size: 1503.5k; Installed: 4183k; Homepage: http://www.postfix.org
18:20<sussudio>no
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19:04<ice>What is the recommended permanent way to add /sbin/ and /usr/sbin to my path when I am root? I have to keep manually adding it when it will tell me it can't find a command
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19:07<jkc>ice: How are you logging in to the root user?
19:07<somiaj>!buster su
19:07<dpkg>Starting with buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details.
19:07<somiaj>su is not meant to change the enviorment in any ways, use 'su -' if you want a full login enviormoent
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19:09<ice>jkc: just using 'su'
19:09<ice>then entering the password :)
19:09<jkc>ice: See above. That's the problem. If you expect to have root's environment, including $PATH, 'su -', not 'su'.
19:09<ice>thanks guys, i'll try adding the dash!
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19:57<DennisTheTiger>Running Stable, xfce, fully updated. I seem to be having an interesting issue with my mouse pointer in that it does two things I don't like: the mouse will take priority over any window it is hovering over, and if I hover over the workspace selector it scrolls to the next workspace to the right as long as the option to do so with the scroll wheel is selected. Thus far, Google has turned up nothing useful. I've also
19:57<DennisTheTiger>testd other mice and the effect is the same, even when physically disconnecting my primary mouse - this universally happens regardless of the device, so I do not think this is a hardware issue. Where should I be looking in order to disable this action, and where can I further debug?
19:59<sney>that sounds like "sloppy focus" which is not usually enabled by default, but most window managers support somehow
20:00<DennisTheTiger>That's just it, I can't seem to find that option here....
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20:00<sney>it may be in a config file for xfwm4 rather than exposed in a settings gui
20:00<DennisTheTiger>Oh. Should mention it crosses over to other interfaces; tested in Gnome Classic and Mate.
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20:05<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: what're you trying to change?
20:06<tjcarter>turn off focus-follows-mouse?
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20:07<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: xfwm4-settings, focus tab, top option in the tab
20:07<tjcarter>(*) Click to focus ( ) Focus follows mouse ← you don't want focus follows mouse.
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20:08<asdflkj>how do I check how much space a package will take to install, including all dependencies?
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20:09<tjcarter>asdflkj: open up aptitude, mark it for install, and see how much space it wants to use.
20:09<asdflkj>tjcarter: sorry, should have specified I prefer CLIs
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20:09<tjcarter>asdflkj: if you don't like it, Actions → Cancel pending actions
20:10<asdflkj>I don't have aptitude installed
20:10<DennisTheTiger>Wait, I think I'm using gdm3....
20:10<DennisTheTiger>...yeah, I'm using gdm3.
20:10<knolle>apt also tells you how much space stuff will use before you press y
20:10<tjcarter>asdflkj: aptitude has a completely CLI interface, but often some things are faster to check with a TUI
20:10<tjcarter>knolle: apt doesn't tell you how much it'll take after install
20:11<tjcarter>just how big the files it wants to download are.
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20:11<asdflkj>it does say "After this operation, 2613 kB [eg.] of additional disk space will be used."
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20:12<tjcarter>aptitude was my brilliant suggestion for how to do it the fast way.
20:12<tjcarter>oh, that's handy
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20:12<tjcarter>didn't used to do that
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20:12<asdflkj>I'm just wondering if I can get apt to show that without escalating privileges and beginning an install
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20:13<tjcarter>dry-run?
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20:13<DennisTheTiger>oops
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20:14<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: mouse automatically focusing any window under it is "focus follows mouse". If you're using xfwm4 I did just tell you how to disable it
20:14<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: Yeah, that's already disabled.
20:14<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: oh good
20:15<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: was another problem?
20:15<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: Didn't fix the actual problem, it still focuses. Probably worth noting though that I'm using gdm3 and not xfwm.
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20:16<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: gdm3 is not a window manager, it's a login box
20:16<DennisTheTiger>Ah, alrihgt.
20:16<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: do you have neofetch installed?
20:16<DennisTheTiger>So basically, whatever's going on is...well, stuck.
20:16<asdflkj>s/login box/display manager/ ?
20:16<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: No dice on neofetch.
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20:17<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: I get a feeling I should install it. =)
20:17<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: neofetch and ixni are two smallish system info/showing off scripts, but they're also useful for support purposes
20:18<tjcarter>I suspect we're gonna discover you're running gnome in a moment.
20:18*DennisTheTiger plays some "thinking music" while it installs
20:18<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: I wouldn't be surprised. =)
20:19<DennisTheTiger>Alright, installed. Anything I should paste in particular, or just the output of 'neofetch'?
20:19<DennisTheTiger>!pastebin
20:19<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
20:19<tjcarter>just check your DE and your WM
20:19<tjcarter>mine for example are DE: Xfce 4.16 WM: Xfwm4
20:20<tjcarter>(which is why I knew where the xfwm4 setting for focus follows mouse lives.)
20:20<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: That's exactly what I have.
20:20<tjcarter>Interesting.
20:20<DennisTheTiger>Yeah.
20:21<tjcarter>try logging out and logging in again?
20:21<DennisTheTiger>The only other clue is that hovering over the panel's window selector - or for that matter, tabs in a settings window - will cause them to basically take priority progressively toward the right.
20:21*tjcarter wonders how DennisTheTiger got to using gdm3 with xfce
20:21<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: I've even shut down to no effect.
20:21<tjcarter>since toggling that?
20:21<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: Yes.
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20:22<tjcarter>has compiz been involved anywhere?
20:22<DennisTheTiger>I've turned the focus option on and off *after* rebooting, and of course there was me dropping off (read: logout, unexpected).
20:22<tjcarter>I wonder if there's something weird in your session
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20:22<DennisTheTiger>negative, compiz is not installed.
20:23<tjcarter>compiz was my first guess, hm.
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20:23<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: I'm thinking so, but even in MATE I have this issue - so I don't *think* it's session based.
20:23<tjcarter>XDG autostart thing maybe
20:23<tjcarter>thsoe get added to every session
20:24<DennisTheTiger>...hmm...autostart, then?
20:24<tjcarter>I mean I've got like 27 items in /etc/xdg/autostart
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20:27<tjcarter>randomly, other useful console tools I get a lot of mileage out of are pydf, htop, and mtr-tiny, not that any of them except maybe htop are likely to help you figure out what's going on here
20:28<asdflkj>ncdu is a good complement to htop btw
20:28<asdflkj>`apt show imagemagick` does show `Installed-Size: 225 kB`, but that doesn't include dependencies, does it?
20:28<tjcarter>asdflkj: it doesn't
20:29<DennisTheTiger>asdflkj: Don't think ncdu is gonna help, but it looks like it'll do the job.
20:29<tjcarter>asdflkj: did apt-get run with --dry-run to give you that info
20:29<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: Anything in htop you think I should look for?
20:29<asdflkj>tjcarter: no
20:30<asdflkj>it doesn't mention install size
20:30<DennisTheTiger>Gotta idle and finish a few things with work. I shall return.
20:31<asdflkj>tjcarter: at least `apt install --dry-run imagemagick` didn't, would apt-get --dry-run be different?
20:31<knolle>no, they both don't do it for some reason
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20:32<asdflkj>hmm...
20:32<asdflkj>asdf@cb-~-06:29:34$ apt-get --dry-run imagemagick | less
20:32<asdflkj>E: Command line option --dry-run is not understood in combination with the other options
20:32<tjcarter>dry-run install
20:32<tjcarter>--dry-run install that is
20:32<asdflkj>oh yeah, silly mistake
20:32<asdflkj>anyway, same output
20:32<asdflkj>(no size)
20:33<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: trying to think of anything obvious, you can run it with -u <you> to limit the tree
20:33<tjcarter>oh! the tree
20:33<asdflkj>when I run `sudo apt install imagemagick` and manually cancel, it says `After this operation, 44.5 MB of additional disk space will be used.`
20:34<tjcarter>if you change its display mode it'll show a nested tree of what processes ran which, I've set that as a default
20:34<asdflkj>so much, much more than the `Installed-Size: 225 kB` that apt-show reports
20:34<tjcarter>yeah, that's because there are deps it wants
20:35<tjcarter>note, the size it reports are the deps it wants that you don't already have
20:35<tjcarter>otherwise where do you stop, do you count libc6?
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20:37<tjcarter>aptitude --simulate install gnome gave me this as a user: Need to get 115 MB/154 MB of archives. After unpacking 619 MB will be used.
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20:37<tjcarter>I'm not sure what the 115/154 is
20:38<asdflkj>hmm, aptitude needs 20 MB, maybe more than I'd save by using it :/
20:38<tjcarter>what kind of drive are you working with here?
20:39<tjcarter>Debian's generally a "diskspace is cheap" distribution, but you can trim some fat.
20:39<coruja>115 mb still to download of 154 mb altogether
20:41<tjcarter>oh, I have some crap in my cache I removed from when I used cinnamon
20:42<tjcarter>(I like Cinnamon, but not enough to put up with the parts that are still Gnome, and it's a little sluggish on my slowest machines.)
20:44<asdflkj>it's a chromebook (I hate chromebooks btw) emmc with a bunch of tiny partitions, the largest of which seems to be
20:44<asdflkj>Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
20:44<asdflkj>/dev/mmcblk0p1 11G 4.5G 5.3G 47% /
20:44<tjcarter>understood.
20:45<tjcarter>upgrading the emmc is probably not real easy
20:45<asdflkj>right, plus it's not really my own personal machine
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20:45<tjcarter>edu machine?
20:46<asdflkj>no (thank goodness, managed chromebooks are the _worst_), just a family one
20:47<tjcarter>was gonna say, I support hacking the Gibson, just remember to put it back to normal before you have to give it back to the school, etc.
20:48<tjcarter>(the fact I would say that suggests my age probably.)
20:48<ejohb>good night, always when I shut down my system I get error message failed to unmount my data partition which I have enabled with gnome disks to mount by default when the system boots, anyone has any idea what could this be? should I be worried? the system powers down and reboots normally but there is always this message
20:48<tjcarter>asdflkj: can probably purge locales-all and other locale-based packages if you don't need them
20:49<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: Yanno...the last time I saw anything "weird" happening was when gnome-keyring decided to inhibit Chrome from starting as it waited for a password. I turned off the password prompt for this. I wonder if this is...hmm.
20:49<tjcarter>shouldn't be related to that
20:49<tjcarter>hmm
20:50<DennisTheTiger>No, it shouldn't, but I've seen weird stuff...
20:50<asdflkj>I'm afraid I've messed them up, my compose key doesn't support all the en_US-UTF-8 stuff I'm used to
20:50<tjcarter>asdflkj: ibus?
20:51<tjcarter>or just keyboard settings in Debian?
20:51<asdflkj>ejohb: yes, you're likely to get some disk corruption if it doesn't unmount bc software's still trying to write to it when it shuts downs
20:51<asdflkj>tjcarter: xcape -e "Shift_L=Multi_key"
20:53<asdflkj>so just the X11 compose key
20:54<tjcarter>asdflkj: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (I set caps lock)
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20:55<asdflkj>is that going to remove my customizations?
20:55<tjcarter>it would, I was just telling you how I set mine
20:55<tjcarter>you can set it to your liking though
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21:01<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: Oh, here's another fun thing I discovered! If I drag a window, my mouse will leave it behind!
21:01<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: This is...I think it's behaving like I have another pointing device.
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21:10<tjcarter>huh
21:10<tjcarter>I wonder if he does have another pointing device
21:11<tjcarter>should query libinput
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21:22<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: Well...I haven't the foggiest idea what happened, but I just tried the old trope of full on power cycle and...it seems to have worked.
21:23<sarnold>hah
21:23<sarnold>I hate that so much :)
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21:32<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: I wonder if you had to restart AFTER changing the setting
21:33<tjcarter>DennisTheTiger: but weird, glad it's working now
21:33<sarnold>oh that'd make some kind of sense
21:33<tjcarter>sarnold: no it wouldn't because he had a logout
21:33<DennisTheTiger>tjcarter: I'd think a simple reboot originally, but eh. Not sure what I changed and I'm glad it's working as expected. Do appreciate the help even so.
21:33<tjcarter>🎉
21:34<tjcarter>I do kinda wonder about asdflkj's attempt at a mini install, which kinda fits with fudgespinner's efforts to support more old hardware
21:35<fudgespinner>so is there any way to add emoji input without IBus?
21:35<tjcarter>displaying or inputting?
21:35<fudgespinner>inputting emoji,
21:35<tjcarter>fcitx can also input it
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21:36<sarnold>tjcarter: oh did he do a logout inthe middle? you're right, that's back to not making sense :)
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21:36<tjcarter>I never set it up because ibus was kind of the Ubuntu default and that was the easiest to get working in cinnamon
21:36<tjcarter>but a lot of people prefer fcitx I guess
21:37<fudgespinner>I did tried it and it's a mess. also I can't use it to fully control my input method.
21:37<tjcarter>what do you use fudgespinner?
21:37<fudgespinner>really need something to type Thai, Russian and Japanese. And aforementioned emojis
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21:38<tjcarter>How are you handling Thai and English?
21:38<asdflkj>fudgespinner: you can input emoji by putting them in ~/.XCompose
21:38*tjcarter notes asdflkj would suggest this.
21:38<tjcarter>although .XCompose is something I'm likely to start using more
21:39<tjcarter>I need a dead_greek'
21:39<fudgespinner>normally adding Thai keyboard on Xfce keyboard settings, add the language indicator to the panel
21:39<tjcarter>that's not done with ibus for you?
21:40<asdflkj>you could also pick them from dmenu or rofi with a script like https://github.com/LukeSmithxyz/voidrice/blob/master/.local/bin/dmenuunicode and a file like https://github.com/LukeSmithxyz/voidrice/blob/master/.local/share/larbs/emoji
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21:40<fudgespinner>well with IBus I can totally replace the whole thing and let it handle everything. Except it has a tendency to cause issue with some application, like game refusing to launch with ibus daemon running.
21:41*tjcarter probably doesn't go around raving about boomers enough to be allowed to use Luke Smith's github, considering that Luke would probably (ignorantly) refer to him as a "boomer".
21:42<tjcarter>but adding things to compose seems like a great idea
21:44<tjcarter>though actually asdflkj, his setups are probably a good place to start for minimizing Debian to fit into your storage limits
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21:45<tjcarter>Back in the day, X11 ran in a few KILOBYTES of RAM.
21:45<asdflkj>> Luke would probably (ignorantly) refer to him as a "boomer". < nah, he refers to viewers as zoomers
21:45<fudgespinner>I just reinstall Debian with 73GB of root space now.
21:45<tjcarter>asdflkj: I'm in my 40s and I use a DE.
21:46<asdflkj>ah, likely he would
21:46<tjcarter>I remember the old days, I used setups so minimal it'd make Luke flip. I don't anymore because I don't have to.
21:47<sarnold>tjcarter: did it? :) when I started, the advice was "if you want to use X11, you'll want 16M ram"
21:47<fudgespinner>And nope, I don't like touching a window manager. I mean Windows XP would eat as much RAM as Debian Xfce
21:47<tjcarter>sarnold: Yeah, used to be possible to run X in 128k.
21:47<tjcarter>sarnold: oh, you wanted color? LOL.
21:47<sarnold>tjcarter: I did! :D
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21:47<sarnold>tjcarter: I had a nice video card by gum I wanted my 256 colors!
21:48<fudgespinner>is it S3 ViRGE?
21:48<fudgespinner>😀
21:48<fudgespinner>right now I have to use Thunderbird and emoji input addon
21:49<tjcarter>By the time I was actually trying to ever set up X11 myself, it was XFree86 on an Oak card and 8-16MB was encouraged.
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21:49<fudgespinner>also why Debian no longer load Nouveau by default now?
21:50<tjcarter>brb, cooking
21:50<asdflkj>I kinda want to make a minimal xcowsay-based notification system so I don't have to run dbus
21:50<fudgespinner>Or did it only do that if there's no modesetting driver?
21:51<fudgespinner>i.e. blacklisted by the installer somehow
21:52<asdflkj>why does attempting to run xcowsay from cron or atd not work and output `(xcowsay:18986): Gtk-WARNING **: 22:30:02.017: cannot open display:` ?
21:53<sarnold>asdflkj: you'll need to set the DISPLAY environment variable to tell xcowsay which X server to connect to, and you'll need to set the XAUTHORITY environment variable to tell xcowsay which authority file to use to authenticate the connection
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21:54<asdflkj>sarnold: atm I've been starting cron and atd from st inside X, so DISPLAY should be set. How do I find the right XAUTHORITY?
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21:56<sarnold>asdflkj: oh my. I've never heard of anyone doing that before :)
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21:59<asdflkj>it's bc I'm using a debian chroot from chromeos (which doesn't autostart them. I'll probably put them in .xinitrc or someplace better later)
21:59<asdflkj>sarnold: but you didn't answer my question! :S
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22:00<asdflkj>how do I find XAUTHORITY?
22:00<asdflkj>(it's not set in bash, though DISPLAY is)
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22:01<sarnold>asdflkj: because you might have a much more interesting problem than I expected..
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22:01<tjcarter>asdflkj: since I already have systemd, I've been using using systemd-cron or just writing a .timer
22:01<sarnold>asdflkj: I believe the usual X toolkits will try to use ~/.Xauthority if the XAUTHORITY environment variable isn't set
22:02<sarnold>asdflkj: it'd be worth running 'env > /tmp/env.out' in your cron to see what variables are actually set
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22:03<asdflkj>sarnold: .Xauthoriy does exist, but is empty
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22:05<tjcarter>sarnold: I decided I'm sending fudgespinner my old board …. i5-4460 z97 board
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22:05<asdflkj>apparently DISPLAY isn't set
22:06<asdflkj>sarnold: here's env.out: https://termbin.com/ocfm
22:06<asdflkj>how should I set DISPLAY?
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22:07<sarnold>asdflkj: heh, okay, so cron is clearing the env before starting the thing... this is a guess, try DISPLAY=${DISPLAY} env > /tmp/env.out and see if that improves things
22:08<asdflkj>ok, trying that
22:09<asdflkj>sarnold: no change
22:11<asdflkj>I guess I'll just set DISPLAY=:1 in cron for now, I don't think its likely to change any time soon
22:11<sarnold>it probably won't, yeah
22:11<somiaj>cron has always had a unrlaiable enviroment when running things
22:12<somiaj>or very minimial one, don't assume anything is set by it
22:12<asdflkj>yay, that worked \o/
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22:19<sarnold>woot
22:23<asdflkj>thanks for your help!
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 01 00:00:01 2021