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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-05

---Logopened Tue Oct 05 00:00:07 2021
00:01-!-gtristan [~tristan@110.11.238.160] has joined #debian
00:01-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@troude.pet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@troude.pet] has joined #debian
00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:03-!-ChmEarl [~prymar56@0002b86c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:08-!-forell [~forell@0002c3ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
00:09-!-forell [~forell@host-178-216-90-220.sta.tvknaszapraca.pl] has joined #debian
00:09-!-forell is "forell" on #debian
00:15-!-towo` [~quassel@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Komfortabler Chat. Überall. ]
00:19-!-NomadJim_ [~Jim@2001:5b0:2d1f:cc68:4b4:c2a1:debb:bd47] has joined #debian
00:19-!-NomadJim_ is "Nomad" on #debian #linode
00:19-!-Lrrr_ [~quassel@bras-base-shbkpq4068w-grc-38-67-68-252-66.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
00:19-!-Lrrr_ is "François-Denis Gonthier,,," on #debian
00:24-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:de4a:1837:8ee1:db80] has joined #debian
00:24-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
00:25-!-fernie [~fernie@dc7frfykyyyyyyyyybnvy-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:26-!-fudgespinner [~abem@171.7.217.119] has quit [Quit: fudgespinner]
00:26-!-fudgespinner [~abem@171.7.217.119] has joined #debian
00:26-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian #nouveau #debian-rant #debian-xfce
00:26-!-fudgespinner [~abem@171.7.217.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:27-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian #nouveau #debian-rant #debian-xfce
00:27-!-fudgespinner [~abem@171.7.217.119] has joined #debian
00:27-!-Lrrr [~quassel@bras-base-shbkpq4068w-grc-59-67-68-252-123.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:28-!-fudgespinner [~abem@171.7.217.119] has quit []
00:29-!-fudgespinner [~abem@171.7.217.119] has joined #debian
00:29-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #debian-xfce #debian-rant #nouveau #debian #debian-offtopic #oftc
00:33-!-towo` [~quassel@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:33-!-towo` is "Torsten Wohlfarth" on #radeon #vbox #debian-next #siduction-admin #kvm #debian #debian-offtopic #vboxger #kernelnewbies #kanotix
00:34-!-timur_davletshin [~timur_dav@0002b842.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:35-!-fudgespinner [~abem@0002cf65.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: fudgespinner]
00:35-!-fudgespinner [~abem@0002cf65.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:35-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian #nouveau #debian-rant #debian-xfce
00:35-!-timur_davletshin [~timur_dav@0002b842.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:35-!-timur_davletshin is "Timur Davletshin" on #oftc #debian
00:43-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:43-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has joined #debian
00:43-!-A|an is "realname" on #debian
00:45-!-Guest1819 is now known as go4godvin
00:46-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:46-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has joined #debian
00:46-!-A|an is "realname" on #debian
00:47-!-wayne2 [~wayne@178.162.194.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:48-!-wayne2 [~wayne@178.162.194.66] has joined #debian
00:48-!-wayne2 is "..." on #debian
00:58-!-arnold_oree [~arnoldore@34.183.93.209.dyn.plus.net] has joined #debian
00:58-!-arnold_oree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
01:03-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:03-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #vboxger #vbox #kvm #radeon #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
01:04-!-fernie [~fernie@dc79t4ykyyyyyyyyybxzy-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
01:04-!-fernie is "Jarkko Torvinen" on #debian
01:04-!-cambrian_invader [~kvirc@50-195-82-171-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:06-!-wytchmaster [~wytchmast@groupware.proxion.de] has joined #debian
01:06-!-wytchmaster is "Andreas " on #debian
01:12-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc04:fc00:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374] has joined #debian
01:12-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #debian #debian-games #debian-social #debian-xfce #oolite #radeon #s6 #C #debian-academy #debian-offtopic #freedesktop #oftc #oolite-dev #luakit #postmarketos #zcash #tor #intel-gfx
01:13-!-cambrian_invader [~kvirc@50-195-82-171-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
01:13-!-cambrian_invader is "KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #kernelnewbies #debian
01:14-!-Enissay [~Enissay@enissay.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
01:16-!-Enissay [~Enissay@enissay.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:16-!-Enissay is "Enissay" on #perl #C #bash #alpine-linux #debian-offtopic #debian
01:23-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:23-!-cowboypenguin [~dan@107-209-165-75.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
01:23-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has joined #debian
01:23-!-A|an is "realname" on #debian
01:35-!-bahamat [~bahamat@2600:8801:8606:8503:7986:8138:e4d2:6366] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:35-!-ibx2496 [~FE865@92.60.40.251] has joined #debian
01:35-!-ibx2496 is "realname" on #debian @#linuxmint #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos
01:42-!-tesst [~oftc-webi@dynamic-78-8-15-152.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #debian
01:42-!-tesst is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian #debian.pl
01:43-!-dub_a [~dub_a@static-198-54-131-92.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #debian
01:43-!-dub_a is "dub_a" on #debian
01:47-!-scorpion2185[m] [~scorpion2@2001:470:1af1:101::68b2] has joined #debian
01:47-!-scorpion2185[m] is "org.matrix:scorpion2185" on #debian #debian-next #freedesktop #virt #kernelnoobies
01:48-!-A|an [~Alan@173.216.51.200] has quit [Quit: A|an]
01:48-!-heiserhorn is "Michele Cane" on #oftc #debian-next
01:48-!-heiserhorn [~heiserhor@185.159.157.45] has joined #debian
01:49-!-dub_a1 [~dub_a@2601:1c2:4e00:3b3::cb2] has joined #debian
01:49-!-dub_a1 is "dub_a" on #debian
01:51-!-dub_a [~dub_a@static-198-54-131-92.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:56-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc04:fc00:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:58-!-tesst [~oftc-webi@dynamic-78-8-15-152.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
01:59-!-Hi-Angel [~constanti@broadband-188-32-15-112.ip.moscow.rt.ru] has joined #debian
01:59-!-Hi-Angel is "Konstantin" on #debian #mesonbuild #dri-devel #kernelnewbies
02:01-!-witchmaster [~quassel@2003:a:a13:3002:e1ba:6158:aeb2:8ae0] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:01-!-witchmaster [~quassel@2003:a:a13:3005:51ab:1b5:3bc7:44b6] has joined #debian
02:01-!-witchmaster is "Witchmaster" on @#debian-user #mailcow #nextcloud #debian @#ccc
02:02-!-texou [~jp@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:02-!-wytchmaster_ [~wytchmast@2003:a:a13:3002:161e:d791:2a2c:975d] has joined #debian
02:02-!-wytchmaster_ is "Andreas " on #debian
02:03-!-SanchoPiensa [~me@2001:4bb8:2c0:74e7:7c08:9d61:9032:2db8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:06-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-79-41-52-169.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
02:06-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #linux-media #gstreamer #vcs-home #debian #cell
02:08-!-wytchmaster [~wytchmast@groupware.proxion.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:09-!-SanchoPiensa [~me@2001:4bb8:2c0:74e7:45e7:eff0:5251:c781] has joined #debian
02:09-!-SanchoPiensa is "purple" on #debian
02:13-!-Hi-Angel [~constanti@broadband-188-32-15-112.ip.moscow.rt.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
02:14-!-Hi-Angel [~constanti@broadband-188-32-15-112.ip.moscow.rt.ru] has joined #debian
02:14-!-Hi-Angel is "Konstantin" on #debian #mesonbuild #dri-devel #kernelnewbies
02:16-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has quit []
02:17-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has joined #debian
02:17-!-seednode6 is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
02:18-!-phos [~daniel@94-255-250-104.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #debian
02:18-!-phos is "daniel" on #debian
02:23-!-L1Cafe [~L1Cafe@0002be5a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:25-!-L1Cafe [~L1Cafe@0002be5a.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:25-!-L1Cafe is "L1Cafe" on #debian #alpine-linux
02:25-!-dub_a2 [~dub_a@static-198-54-131-92.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #debian
02:25-!-dub_a2 is "dub_a" on #debian
02:25-!-SanchoPiensa [~me@2001:4bb8:2c0:74e7:45e7:eff0:5251:c781] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
02:27-!-dub_a1 [~dub_a@2601:1c2:4e00:3b3::cb2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:28-!-grawity [grawity@star.nullroute.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:28-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:de4a:1837:8ee1:db80] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:37-!-SanchoPiensa [~me@2001:4bb8:2c0:74e7:45e7:eff0:5251:c781] has joined #debian
02:37-!-SanchoPiensa is "purple" on #debian
02:38-!-afa [~quassel@ptx.hi.pengutronix.de] has joined #debian
02:38-!-afa is "Ahmad Fatoum,,," on #debian
02:39-!-afa [~quassel@ptx.hi.pengutronix.de] has quit []
02:39-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:ea53:ad66:b2f9:b5c9] has joined #debian
02:39-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #debian #freedombox
02:39-!-hbautista_ [~hbautista@189.129.251.72] has joined #debian
02:39-!-hbautista_ is "Héctor" on #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
02:44-!-dub_a3 [~dub_a@2601:1c2:4e00:3b3::cb2] has joined #debian
02:44-!-dub_a3 is "dub_a" on #debian
02:44-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@ppp-2-85-111-14.home.otenet.gr] has joined #debian
02:44-!-chomwitt is "realname" on #debian #debian-games #debian-social #debian-xfce #oolite #radeon #s6 #C #debian-academy #debian-offtopic #freedesktop #oftc #oolite-dev #luakit #postmarketos #zcash #tor #intel-gfx
02:45-!-dub_a2 [~dub_a@static-198-54-131-92.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:46-!-hbautista [~hbautista@189.129.251.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:47-!-Volk [~volk@a95-94-47-32.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #debian
02:47-!-Volk is "Volk" on #suckless #debian-rant #debian-next #debian-kde #debian-offtopic #debian #alpine-linux
02:47-!-UnoMas52 [~4564asdf6@193.144.97.124] has joined #debian
02:47-!-UnoMas52 is "Si SI" on #debian
02:49-!-quazgar [~quazgar@p200300cf071a450078ac061d8aa49b0b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
02:49-!-quazgar is "quazgar" on #debian-kde #debian
02:49-!-timur_davletshin [~timur_dav@0002b842.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:56-!-witchmaster_ [~quassel@2003:a:a13:3005:51ab:1b5:3bc7:44b6] has joined #debian
02:56-!-witchmaster_ is "Witchmaster" on @#debian-user #mailcow #nextcloud #debian #ccc
02:58-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
02:58-!-mimi89999 is "mimi89999" on #debian
02:58-!-mimi89999 [cb2cbfa643@89-72-190-170.dynamic.chello.pl] has left #debian [Error from remote client]
02:59-!-UnoMas52 [~4564asdf6@193.144.97.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:59-!-mezzo [~mezzo@176-141-171-88.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
02:59-!-mezzo is "mezzo" on #debian @#lichess #yuming
02:59-!-wytchmaster_ [~wytchmast@2003:a:a13:3002:161e:d791:2a2c:975d] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:59-!-wytchmaster [~wytchmast@2003:a:a13:3002:161e:d791:2a2c:975d] has joined #debian
02:59-!-wytchmaster is "Andreas " on #debian
02:59-!-witchmaster [~quassel@2003:a:a13:3005:51ab:1b5:3bc7:44b6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:59-!-witchmaster [~quassel@2003:a:a13:3005:51ab:1b5:3bc7:44b6] has joined #debian
02:59-!-witchmaster is "Witchmaster" on #mailcow #nextcloud #debian #ccc
03:02-!-richardm75_ [~richardm7@2600:8801:c507:2900:21fc:7f2e:8dcd:c3b6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:03-!-DaHooligeGroohl [~quassel@62.159.121.155] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Komfortabler Chat. Überall. ]
03:05-!-witchmaster_ [~quassel@2003:a:a13:3005:51ab:1b5:3bc7:44b6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:06-!-zamuro [~Samantha@static-216-81-63-95.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #debian
03:06-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian
03:07-!-hbautista_ [~hbautista@189.129.251.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:07-!-DaHooligeGroohl [~quassel@62.159.121.155] has joined #debian
03:07-!-DaHooligeGroohl is "Da Hoolige Groohl" on #debian
03:08-!-cpaelzer_ [~paelzer@2001:67c:1560:8007::aac:c4ad] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:08-!-skitt [~skitt@82-65-25-201.subs.proxad.net] has joined #debian
03:08-!-skitt is "realname" on #debian
03:14-!-mangix [~quassel@astound-69-42-23-49.ca.astound.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:15-!-mangix [~quassel@astound-69-42-23-49.ca.astound.net] has joined #debian
03:15-!-mangix is "Rosen Penev" on #llvm @#$nouveau #nouveau #alpine-linux #debian #msys2
03:17-!-chele [~chele@ip5b416ec2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
03:17-!-chele is "chele" on #debian-next #debian
03:20-!-ee2455 [~ee2455@0001c7c0.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:20-!-ee2455 is "ee2455" on #debian
03:20-!-Techcable [~Techcable@0002b0fe.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
03:21-!-Techcable [~Techcable@0002b0fe.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:21-!-Techcable is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #xonsh #tor-project #suckless #openjdk #msys2 #llvm #debian #asahi #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #C
03:21-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
03:21-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-next #debian.or.at #security #debian
03:26-!-ivan81 [~Thunderbi@0002a317.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:26-!-ivan81 is "ivan81" on #debian
03:27-!-texou [~jp@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:27-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #hyprateam #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y
03:30-!-UnoMas52 [~4564asdf6@193.144.97.124] has joined #debian
03:30-!-UnoMas52 is "Si SI" on #debian
03:35-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has quit []
03:35-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has joined #debian
03:35-!-seednode6 is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
03:36-!-TheCreeper [~TheCreepe@000209ab.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:36-!-Inepu [~mith@137-217-234-46.4all.it] has joined #debian
03:36-!-Inepu is "realname" on #debian
03:37-!-Maduro52 [~4564asdf6@193.144.97.124] has joined #debian
03:37-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
03:37-!-TheCreeper [~TheCreepe@000209ab.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:37-!-TheCreeper is "realname" on #debian #debian-raspberrypi
03:40-!-UnoMas52 [~4564asdf6@193.144.97.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:45-!-quazgar [~quazgar@p200300cf071a450078ac061d8aa49b0b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:48-!-kusivelho [~kusivelho@ec2-13-49-45-150.eu-north-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
03:48-!-kusivelho is "kusivelho" on #debian
03:49-!-quazgar [~quazgar@p548c611a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:49-!-quazgar is "quazgar" on #debian-kde #debian
03:49-!-cpaelzer_ [~paelzer@uk.sesame.canonical.com] has joined #debian
03:49-!-cpaelzer_ is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #zkvm #virt #debian-qemu #debian
03:54-!-tagomago [~tagomago@static-45-170-229-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #debian
03:54-!-tagomago is "Tagomago" on #debian
03:57-!-jipege1 [~quassel@2a01:cb19:85fa:2d00:b9a1:9d79:57f9:f1b1] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
03:58-!-endstille [~Miranda@mail02.grolman-group.com] has joined #debian
03:58-!-endstille is "marc.brinkmann@gmail.com" on #debian
03:58-!-jipege [~quassel@2a01:cb19:85fa:2d00:58b1:9c21:bc8:a32] has joined #debian
03:58-!-jipege is "jipege" on #debian
04:01-!-jfoy [~jfoy@c-67-168-110-181.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:02-!-gtristan [~tristan@110.11.238.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:06-!-hendursa1 [~weechat@7YZAADKE6.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:06-!-hendursa1 is "weechat" on #po4a #consfigurator #wayland #robigalia #debian #postmarketos #kernelnewbies
04:06-!-krytarik [krytarik@0002251a.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:06-!-krytarik is "Krytarik Raido" on #oftc #debian-next #debian
04:06-!-aidalgol_ [~aidalgol@222.154.26.37] has joined #debian
04:06-!-aidalgol_ is "Aidan Gauland" on #debian #tor #virt
04:07-!-timur_davletshin [~timur_dav@0002b842.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:07-!-timur_davletshin is "Timur Davletshin" on #oftc #debian
04:09-!-trylam [~estelle@2a01:e0a:95:5d90:468a:5bff:fe43:8419] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
04:10-!-aidalgol [~aidalgol@0001a1b7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:10-!-mrwick [~mrwick@wan.gw.fuzerfiber.office.wavre.escaux.com] has joined #debian
04:10-!-mrwick is "mrwick" on #debian-next #debian
04:11-!-trylam [~estelle@2a01:e0a:95:5d90:468a:5bff:fe43:8419] has joined #debian
04:11-!-trylam is "PEREZ Estelle" on #debian
04:12-!-hendursaga [~weechat@8VQAAD0VD.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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04:13-!-mangix_ is "Rosen Penev" on #llvm #$nouveau #nouveau #alpine-linux #debian #msys2
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04:50<hope>Hello to everybody !
04:50<hope>I have a small question about live Debian image's boot option.
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04:51<hope>I want to know what is the difference between bind option and union option in persistence.conf file.
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05:11<hope>I want to know what is the difference between bind option and union option in persistence.conf file using live OS.
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05:16<mjt>just guessing by the names - "bind" mounts your data (home?) from a flash media to the OS image, so everything you do in your home is in the flash, self-contained. "union" mounts just the writable part of whole thing to your usb flash, - not only /home but whole thing, but it is not self-contained
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05:17<mjt>it can be implemented differently
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05:21<hope>how ?
05:22<mjt>n/m :)
05:22<hope> I mean if it is only home it writes, I could not update my kernel rgith?
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05:48<hope>In man pages http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man5/persistence.conf.5.html what I understood that, you can make link any directory to its source by using bind option and you are allowed to make changes, am I wrong?
05:49<hope>:) That's the reason I said "how"? In man pages it does not put any restrictions to home directory explicitly...
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07:14<spawacz>How to check why a package is not multiarch compatible?
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07:14<spawacz>I'm trying to install libpq-dev for my host (amd64) but when i install libpq-dev:arm64 it tries to remove the host package
07:15<spawacz>The following packages will be REMOVED: libpq-dev The following NEW packages will be installed: libpq-dev:arm64
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07:20*qqq attacks spawacz with nagły atak spawacza
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07:21<spawacz>hahahah
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07:35<twb>spawacz: that sounds like a good test to me :-)
07:35<twb>spawacz: oh sorry you want "why" not "if"
07:35<twb>spawacz: usually it boils down to non-multiarch path for the libraries, I think
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08:03<ksk>,v weechat
08:03<judd>Package: weechat on amd64 -- stretch: 1.6-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 2.3-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.3-1; buster-backports: 2.8-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 3.0-1; bookworm: 3.3-1; sid: 3.3-1
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08:19<spawacz>twb: yeah there is different /usr/bin/pg_config in every architecture in this package
08:20<spawacz>but that's a -dev package with headers and only this one conflicting file
08:20<twb>That program essentially says "I was compilde with these options", it's used to help you build plugins
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08:20<twb>Maybe that should move into the -dev package
08:20<spawacz>yeah i read this file
08:20<spawacz>it is in -dev package
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08:21<spawacz>the runtime (.so) is portable, the -dev is not
08:21<twb>well you don't nede -dev surely
08:21<spawacz>i do, for crosscompilation
08:21<spawacz>that's the point of multiarch, isn't it?
08:21<twb>that's *a* point
08:21<spawacz>99% of packages with -dev for different arch work well
08:21<twb>IMO the main point is so you can run 32-bit shitty proprietary apps on a 64-bit native system
08:22<spawacz>i'm not talking about x86 32 vs 64 bit
08:22<spawacz>arm64 and amd64
08:22<twb>spawacz: both use cases need multiarch
08:23<twb>spawacz: are you compiling Debian packages, or something else?
08:23<spawacz>i am compiling my programs that require zlib, openssl, boost, libpq and a bunch of others
08:23<spawacz>everything works, except for libpq-dev
08:24<spawacz>that's the point of multiarch ;p
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08:26<spawacz>the point is: on my arm64 i install bunch of packages. I do so on my powerful x86 build machine, with :arm64 suffix. Then i build the program for arm64 and rsync the binary to my arm machine.
08:27<spawacz>and only libpq-dev resists to be installed on x86 with :arm64 suffix.
08:28<spawacz>(because i do not want to remove my host's libpq-dev)
08:28<twb>spawacz: well there's nothing you can do about it
08:28<spawacz>i think maintainers should dump the /usr/bin/ part or refactor it
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08:29<danielssan>spawacz: wouldn't be an arm64 chroot be worth it?
08:30<spawacz>that's how i mitigated the problem ;p
08:30<danielssan>ahh too late it seems ;)
08:30<spawacz>but untill now the multiarch just worked out of the box
08:30<spawacz>the CMake and clang support is great
08:30<spawacz>it just works
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08:40<Tj>Anyone know who or what is responsible for tracker? https://packages.debian.org/source/stable-security/openssl => "Error two or more packages specified (openssl stable-security)" from https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/openssl versions > stable > 1.1.1k-1
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08:43<themill>Tj: the contact details are immediately below the error
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08:49<Tj>themill: that's for packages.d.o; the problem is in distro-tracker but that issue tracker is behind salsa log-in and not had an account approval so cannot report it
08:51<themill>I don't think the error is with tracker.d.o
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08:54<Tj>themill: I think it is, in as much as it is generated a URL that doesn't exist (I understand how/why it is doing that) but it shouldn't generate a boilerplate link when stable-security is known not to exist
08:55<themill>Except that the version is known to exist and packages.d.o is failing to show it
08:58*twb shakes fist impotently at pdo
08:58<Tj>well yes, but whilst p.d.o hasn't been updated to report stable-security surely other tools shouldn't be 'inventing' non-existent URLS ?
08:59<themill>Are you really arguing that the thing that is broken isn't broken and that everything else that is following the defined interface should change until the broken thing is unbroken?
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09:02<Tj>p.d.o is separate from t.d.o. t.d.o. is publishing a link that doesn't exist on a separate server/service and, from looking at the 2 sub-projects that handle those, doesn't look likely to be done imminently.
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10:30<quazgar>hacking away...
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10:36<sussudio>apt-get install nmap < i'm hax0ring, mum.
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11:26<spawacz>So when we are talking about multiarch we care only about binary packages being portable or -dev ones too?
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11:27<Habbie>-dev packages can contain binaries
11:27<bremner>or arch specific files of other kinds.
11:29<Habbie>yep
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11:38<twb>spawacz: in principle all packages should be multiarch. In practice, it's a work in progress. I expect 80%+ are multiarch by now, and the remaining ones are either abandoned or difficult
11:39<twb>(Oh and probably things that put binaries in $PATH are not multiarch on the basis of "why would you need both sparc AND sparc64 versions of /bin/emacs?")
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11:52<spawacz>yeah the /usr/bin argument is obvious
11:52<spawacz>but all the packages that install headers and .so and .a files should be
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12:25<bremner>note that "multiarch" by itself is pretty meaningless. Do you mean Architecture: all ?
12:25<bremner>that's a (much) different thing
12:26<bremner>for some reason, the random libfoo-dev file I looked has it's .so link in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
12:27<bremner>not sure if that's just a limitation of the build system, or what.
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12:29<twb>bremner: I *think* they want to compile "my-cool-app.c" against libpg-dev for both aarch64 and x86_64, without any chroot crap
12:29<twb>bremner: and they can't because pg-config isn't multiarch
12:30<bremner>multiarch is a mess.
12:30<twb>>shrug<
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12:31<bremner>it's not in debian policy, so that's a hint...
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12:40<spawacz>that's exactly what I want
12:42<twb>23:28 <twb> spawacz: well there's nothing you can do about it
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12:44<twb>If you were building .debs I'd say just use debspawn create stable --arch=aarch64 or whatever
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12:46<twb>"debspawn create bullseye --mirror=http://localhost:3142/deb.debian.org/debian --arch=arm64" worked for me on Debian 11 amd64. I already have the qemu binfmt_misc stuff installed.
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13:06<damian>Hello
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13:11<Emil>Hi
13:12<Emil>What's the correct way to change keyboard layout when there's no x?
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13:15<twb>Emil: it's the same
13:15<twb>Emil: /etc/default/keyboard
13:15<twb>Emil: because magic, the fbcon consoles understand XKB terminology
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13:16<twb>Emil: if you need pinyin or anthy or ibus, though, I'm afraid I don't know
13:17<Emil>twb: hmm, so if that file doesn't exist I'll have to create it manually I suppose
13:17<twb>Emil: um... wait one
13:17<twb>Emil: is this a barebones install?
13:17<Emil>twb: it is yeah
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13:18<twb>Emil: install keyboard-configuration
13:18<twb>I think you also want someting like console-support ?
13:18<Emil>(well it's the tested image from here https://raspi.debian.net/tested-images/)
13:18<twb>"console-setup"
13:19<twb>Emil: that sounds like raspbian. I don't support that
13:19<Emil>twb: no, it's not
13:19<twb>Ah, never mind. it's *REAL* debian for old pre-armhf raspberry pi
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13:20<Emil>that's not it, either
13:20<Emil>it's real debian for raspis
13:20<twb>If your rpi is armv8 or armv7 w/NEON, why not just do a regular Debian install?
13:20<danielssan>twb because the isos don't run on those pis?
13:21<twb>danielssan: what iso
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13:21<danielssan>twb: so how would you do a regular debian install without an iso oO
13:22<twb>https://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/Debian11.0/main/installer-arm64/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/arm64/
13:23<twb>As long as you can convince a bootloader to load that vmlinuz and that initrd.img, you're done
13:23<danielssan>which don't work on raspis, as those don't support any uefi
13:23<twb>I normally just put those two files on a TFTP server
13:23<danielssan>that's why those images exist, it's a really barebone bootstrap of debian with the bootloader included (and firmware)
13:23<twb>Or onto a local mass storage device with a local bootloader
13:24<danielssan>and how do you boot a pi from a tftp server?
13:24<danielssan>not all can boot from network
13:24<twb>danielssan: bcm's shitty bootloader can't even chainload uboot?
13:25<danielssan>afaik it is loading uboot, but afair it's not the upstream version
13:25<twb>I observe there's no rpi images here: https://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/Debian11.0/main/installer-arm64/current/images/u-boot/
13:25<danielssan>that's why the foundation had to patch it
13:25<twb>Just all the variants that aren't made out of freedom-hating bcm SoC
13:26<twb>Anyway. Using official install media instead of debian.net (which is "some guy on the internet" quality) would be preferable.
13:26<twb>But it sounds like your hardware makes that exceptionally difficult
13:27<danielssan>yeah debian devs are 'some guy on the internet' xD
13:27<Emil>Anycase
13:27<twb>danielssan: exactly
13:27<Emil>Where should I appeal to have the base debian images include a clean way to change keyboard layout without internet connectivity?
13:27<danielssan>twb: so why are you running debian then?
13:28<twb>danielssan: because official stuff goes through debian-policy and ftp-masters and similar checks-and-balances
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13:28<twb>danielssan: debian.net stuff is essentially personal hosting and can do random crazy things, and nobody else in debian can say "hang on, that is bloody stupid"
13:29<danielssan>Emil: you can try, but it won't happen for those debian images. #debian-raspberry will listen probably
13:29<twb>Emil: if you want changes to raspi.debian.net you have to talk to whoever runs that
13:29<danielssan>twb: i guess no debian then for raspis
13:29<Emil>danielssan: nah the guy, gwolf, said that he wants to keep things as close as possible to the base images
13:29<twb>Emil: based on what's on those pages, it sounds like they aren't installing those because they don't expect you to ever plug in a keyboard and screen *directly*
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13:30<twb>Emil: and if you are, you can just "apt install" so big deal
13:30<Emil>"can just apt install"
13:30<Emil>Not all locations have internet connectivity
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13:30<twb>Emil: there are workarounds for that e.g. apt-walkabout
13:31<Emil>Anycase
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13:31<Emil>What part of Debian do I need to stab to make it use my keyboard layout manually
13:31<twb>Emil: or drop the install DVD as an .iso onto a USB key and plug that into the rpi and use the apt-cdrom method
13:31<danielssan>that or there is apt-offline (if that is still a thing)
13:31<twb>Emil: you mean like use AZERTY on a keyboard that's physically QWERTY ?
13:32<Emil>twb: no, just a Finnish qwerty keyboard
13:33<twb>Emil: so like you press the Å key and what appears onscreen?
13:33<Emil>[
13:33<twb>Yeah OK sounds like the host is receiving US pc105 layout
13:33<Emil>Exactly
13:34<twb>The way *I* solve that is install keyboard-configuration and edit /etc/default/keyboard and reboot
13:34<Emil>I'd like it to be INT PC105
13:34<Emil>With a fi.utf-8 layout
13:34<Emil>twb: and without internet connectivity?
13:34<twb>AFAIK just creating that file won't help becase you need at least xkb-data installed, and almost certainly also console-setup
13:34<twb>Emil: there's no way to do it without the necessary programs and data flies
13:35<twb>Emil: you're welcome to try it, what I have currently is this:
13:35<twb>XKBMODEL="pc105" XKBLAYOUT="us" XKBVARIANT="" XKBOPTIONS="" BACKSPACE="guess"
13:35<twb>You *might* need a newline after each pair, but probably not
13:35<Emil>twb: so it returns back to who should I petition to have basic functionality like actually working keyboards included in the base system? :D
13:36<twb>Emil: that functionality is included in the official images. Your problem is you're using unofficial images.
13:36<twb>Emil: is the "don't have internet" problem only the rpi, or do you not have any internet in your town at the moment?
13:37<twb>If the former, juggle drives between the rpi and some other system, using chroots or similar, so you can get the necessary .debs onto the rpi
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13:38<twb>or if it's easier, set up the other system to do ethernet-over-USB or similar, as a "tethering" approach
13:39<twb>Or you can try to do a cross-install from some other system, skipping raspi.debian.net entirely — https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/arm64/apds03.en.html
13:39<Emil>According to gwolf on that other channel, it's not in the base debian install, keyboard layout selection is in debian installer
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13:40<twb>Emil: right – when you run debian-installer and choose the keyboard layout for the install, that carries over to the installed system
13:40<Emil>Who should I approach about having that included in the base installation?
13:41<twb>The question doesn't really make sense
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13:42<twb>Like... if you install Debian normally, it says "what is your keyboard layout", and you say "it's finnish", and then it installs finnish keyboard layout. That's a "normal install"; the term "bsae install" doesn't really mean anything in Debian
13:42<Emil>what words could I use to convince the gwolf guy about this?
13:42<twb>We have "Essential: yes" packages, which are things that every single system MUST have.
13:42<twb>We have "Priority: required" packages which most systems SHOULD hav.e
13:42<Emil>twb: I would like to have keyboard layout selection as essential or priority required
13:43<twb>But keyboard support is only relevant for computers with keyboards.
13:43<danielssan>Emil: does localectl exist?
13:43<Emil>twb: if so, why does it ship any keyboard management then?
13:44<twb>Emil: well as you saw, in the *smallest* installs, it doesn't ship any keyboard management.
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13:44<Emil>It does, keyboards still work, just with US 105
13:45<Emil>danielssan: that exists
13:45<danielssan>yeah but that's the default for the linux kernel
13:45<twb>That's probably just the kernel driver's default behaviour with no config or management
13:45<danielssan>Emil: does it change when editing the vc keymap?
13:45<Emil>danielssan: could you run me through that?
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13:45<twb>danielssan: you mean "localectl set-keymap fi_FI.UTF-8" ?
13:46<danielssan>that's a language not keymap ;)
13:46<twb>Oops I guess that should be "localectl set-keymap fi"
13:46<twb>My test image was just saying "n/a" because I'm using a serial terminal
13:46<danielssan>depends on the keymap, for german it's de-latin1
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13:46<danielssan>or something like that
13:46<twb>Ah well that will be in /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules
13:47<Emil>hmm, localectl set-keymap fi executed without messages but didn't change anything, I'll try logging out and back in
13:47<Emil>no effect
13:47<twb>Most likely the necessary packages are missing
13:48<danielssan>yeah sounds like it
13:48<twb>systemd is bad at reporting problems when Fedora base packages are not installed :-)
13:48<twb>e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/814758
13:48<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/814758 in systemd (closed): «Case power button is ignored unless dbus is installed.»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-02-15; last modified: 2016-03-15.
13:49<twb>Emil: 04:36 <twb> Emil: is the "don't have internet" problem only the rpi, or do you not have any internet in your town at the moment?
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13:51<Emil>twb: as I'm talking to you, I do have internet, but getting internet to the raspi is a pain, and I've previously run into this exact situation and I didn't have internet in those
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13:52<danielssan>Emil: you could download the 3 debs and then move them to the sd from your pc i guess
13:52<Emil>I don't have a memory stick :/
13:52<twb>Emil: OK. 04:37 <twb> If the former, juggle drives between the rpi and some other system, using chroots or similar, so you can get the necessary .debs onto the rpi 04:38 <twb> or set up the other system to ethernet-over-USB "tethering" <twb> or skip raspi.debian.net entirely and do https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/arm64/apds03.en.html
13:53<danielssan>you don't have the sdcard your pi uses to boot?
13:53<Emil>danielssan: but I don't have a reader :D I preburned the image
13:53<danielssan>Emil: your pi still has network or?
13:53<Emil>no
13:54<danielssan>so how would you even then get the new version where keyboard-configuration would be in the base install oO
13:54<Emil>danielssan: I could type it ":D"
13:54<hendursa1>Does this mean more Realtek WiFi devices will become supported out-of-the-box? https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20211004070841
13:54<Emil>danielssan: or I could do it at a later date
13:55<danielssan>hendursa1: no
13:55<Emil>danielssan: point is, I've run into this situation a couple of times already and would be great if I didn't have to fuck around too much
13:55<danielssan>Emil: so for now, you have literally no way of getting any data on the pi? which means we are discussing here stuff that is irrelevant?
13:55<Emil>if the utility was there in the base image, that'd be great
13:55<Emil>danielssan: I can type using the english keyboard :D
13:55<danielssan>Emil: well seems like you are out of luck then ^^
13:56<hendursa1>danielssan: why's that? were they already in Debian without non-free components?
13:56<twb>Emil: OK so just to be clear: you have a raspi.debian.net image flashed onto an rpi. The rpi has no network support – no wifi, no ethernet port. The rpi has an SD card/reader, but you have no other reader. Is that all correct?
13:56<Emil>yes
13:56<twb>And you don't have a USB thumb drive and USB slot on both devices?
13:57<Emil>I don't have portable memory I could transfer between computers, no
13:57<twb>Then the only way I can think of to get data onto this rpi is to plug a USB cable into both devices, and have the non-rpi device pretend to be a USB keyboard
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13:58<twb>Or some other equivalent cable e.g. DB9
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13:59<twb>I think you'll have to actually go buy/borrow something – a USB key, an ethernet cable, an SD card reader, or something like that
13:59<Emil>Probably
13:59<Emil>twb: thanks for helping me anyways
13:59<twb>If you live near a university, those often have computer clubs that will have lots of helpful people
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14:00<Emil>That's good advise
14:00<twb>Hrm, uupsala, but that's all the way over in sweden...
14:00<Emil>hah, that doesn't tell you anything
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14:01<Emil>This server I'm connecting from is hosted by DigitalOcean in Germany
14:01<Emil>but I'm connecting to it from Finland
14:01<twb>Emil: oh well I assumed you were physically in Finland. Uupsala was just the first nordic university I could remember with a good user group
14:02<Emil>aah
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14:02<Emil>haha, that would be some adventure lol
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14:02<Emil>I think it's written Uppsala btw
14:02<danielssan>ahh can only be a few km right? i mean europe is quite small :>
14:03<twb>I once had a user get angry at me because I said "I could tell you were finnish from your name" and she was like "how the hell is 'Mikaela' Finnish", and I was like "your /whois says Mikaels Suominen"
14:03<Emil>haha
14:03<Emil>https://www.ulug.org/ seems pretty cool
14:03<bentham>:)
14:03<Mikaela>:/
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14:04<twb>Mikaela: oh hey :-) Maybe I should have randomized the first name, sorry
14:04<Emil>Victory, I've a friend bringing me an ethernet cable
14:05<twb>Emil: does your other computer have a spare ethernet port?
14:05<Emil>nope
14:05<twb>Emil: so what are you gonna plug it into?
14:05<Emil>the port in the wall
14:06<twb>ah that will do
14:06<Emil>So what packages do I need to install?
14:06<twb>Probably "console-setup" and that should probably install "keyboard-configuration" and "xkb-data"
14:07<twb>Emil: if that's gonna knock out your IRC, do you want to discuss how to set up DHCP on rpi now?
14:07<Mikaela>Hi twb, if you are talking about me, I am pretty sure you are exaggregating if you are referring to me, as I barely ever swear (or never did even in times of worse mental health) and I don't think I have been angry over that, if I have asked about knowing my name to be Finnish, that has likely been just in the context of my first name which is more commonly thought to be Swedish
14:07<Mikaela>(which I don't even speak). If you are interested in knowing more, https://mikaela.info/blog and my /query is open
14:08<Emil>twb: nah, like I said, I'm connecting to my VM to IRC
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14:08<Emil>Running IRC locally without an always on server is passé
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14:08<twb>Mikaela: no worries. I don't know if it was you. It was probably on Freenode. I also probably exagerrated for comic effect.
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14:09*Mikaela was there under this name since 2013-10-22
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14:13<Emil>hmmmmmm
14:13<Emil>I installed console-setup and console-common
14:13<Emil>and set the correct keyboard setups, but åöä don't work while - / etc are in correct positions
14:14<twb>Emil: hrmmm
14:14<twb>Emil: when you press å what appears now?
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14:14<Emil>åä do nothing but ö changes the prompt to (arg: 6)
14:15<twb>Sounds like they're sending sequences
14:15<twb>Emil: did you set the keyboard in /etc/default/keyboard, in localectl, or both?
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14:17<Emil>When installing those two packages it automatically asked me if I wanted to change the layout
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14:18<Emil>I didn't have to edit that file or use localectl
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14:18<twb>Ah excellent
14:18<twb>did you log out / reboot after that?
14:19<twb>or even just alt+F3 to switch tty
14:19<Emil>yeah I rebooted
14:20<twb>Hrmmm. Keyboard is USB keyboard?
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14:21<Emil>yeah
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14:25<twb>Emil: honestly I'm stumped
14:25<twb>Possibly there are several variants of "fi" and you need the other one
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14:26<Emil>hmm
14:27<twb>Emil: do you have /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/base.lst now?
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14:30<Emil>Hmm
14:30<Emil>Could it be that locales are somehow brokwn?
14:30<Emil>Installing stuff from apt complains about locales
14:30<Emil>Anycase that file exists
14:31<sarnold>pastebin the errors?
14:31<sarnold>that sounds vaguely familiar, I remember seeing some errors from perl and locales ~a decade back
14:32<Emil>sarnold: https://emil.fi/d/localecomplaints.txt
14:32<sarnold>ahh my old friend
14:33<Emil>Also the åä ö issue also persists over ssh
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14:33<sarnold>Emil: try a dpkg-reconfigure locales -- and be sure en_US.UTF-8 is selected, and built
14:33<twb>Emil: do you have ~200MB of free space?
14:34<ansgar>I thought C.UTF-8 is the fancy stuff people want.
14:34<twb>If so I would definitely install "locales" and also all of Essential: yes and Priority: required
14:34<Xellophane>I'm having an issue with keyboard input not being read for an encrypted LVM on a Hyper-V VM. I've tried editing the initramfs modules file but it doesn't work here. What else can I do?
14:34<twb>ansgar: C.UTF-8 *is* C. Except on glibc, which is broken >_<
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14:34<Emil>There we go
14:35<ansgar>en_US is danger: you might end up with loose feet tramling all over your distances.
14:35<Emil>I recongured locales and åäö now work
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14:36<Emil>twb: how do I install all those packages based on that criteria?
14:36<Emil>And yes I do have 200MB
14:36<twb>Emil: try "apt install '?priority(required)'"
14:36<Emil>(now how do I get raspi-config on this machine...)
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14:36<twb>E: input:0-19: error: Unrecognized pattern '?priority'
14:36<twb>damn
14:37<twb>OK the only way I know to do this is with aptitude, so "apt install --no-install-recommends aptitude"
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14:37<twb>Then "aptitude install '?priority(required)' '?essential'"
14:38<twb>There should be around 50 to 100 packages matching, and most of them should already be installed
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15:04<fl0at>I'm facing dependency issues with mono/libmono. https://paste.centos.org/view/8acb9e16
15:04<fl0at>There is a log of reconfiguring with dpkg, trying to use --fix-broken install, and manually removing the packages to reinstall them. Nothing.
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15:09<coc0nut>hm, lets say you have a laptop with a debian vm on it. and when you dont have power cord so you have a battery powerplan and go sleep very often. How do you update time in the debian vm after its stuck since the computer went to sleep? :) ?
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15:10<coc0nut>debian 11 - ntpd doesnt seem to be a service :p
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15:10<sney>it's typically systemd-timesyncd in bullseye
15:11<imMute>doesn't the RTC keep running even during sleep?
15:12<coc0nut>thx, that made it :)
15:12<imMute>oh a VM. in that case isn't there a "virtual RTC" that guests can use to get the host's time?
15:12<coc0nut>yeah, it doesnt always update when starting back up. was connected to another network on the host aswell when waking now
15:13<coc0nut>sudo systemctl restart systemd-timesyncd did it :)
15:14<fl0at>https://paste.debian.net/1214420/
15:14<fl0at>For context, here is what spurred my journey down the rabbit hole
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15:21<bremner>fl0at: the end of your first paste looked like a file conflict between a debian package and a third party package.
15:23<bremner>the provider of the third party packages may have some hints for you
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15:24<twb>coc0nut: VM is libvirt+qemu?
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15:24<coc0nut>windows host virtualbox debian guest... hehe
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15:24<twb>Oh well if you choose to run Oracle you're on your own
15:25<twb>if you don't need any GUI crap, instead of vbox, I suggest just install Debian from the Microsoft Store
15:25<twb>(THat can do GUI crap, but it's a little fiddly)
15:26<coc0nut>it looks like alot of cool stuff happens on that wsl2 front :)
15:26<twb>wsl1 is much better than wsl2
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15:26<coc0nut>probably wsl2 debian and docker works even better than a vm ? but enabling wsl takes away the possibility of running vms so
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15:27<twb>wsl1 doesn't contain any linux whatsoever. The ntoskrnl runs a Linux-compatible personality.
15:27<twb>wsl2 is boring and runs a complete second kernel, more like Xen
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15:27<coc0nut>ok, i can imagine docker helps alot to it...
15:27<twb>docker is an extremely bad thing
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15:28<coc0nut>so docker is only for testing development? not for production use?
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15:29<twb>docker should never be used
15:29<twb>never ever ever ever
15:29<twb>it's like... the php5 of containers
15:29<coc0nut>hehe
15:29<fl0at>bremner: the only thing I can imagine is because of zfs. I built my own zfs package from the latest release and iirc that uses mono to build but I only used official debian repos to install mono from there. How can I see what third party package is causing that?
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15:30<twb>fl0at: FWIW I run zfs as my rootfs, and I haven't noticed any mono issues
15:30<bremner>fl0at: well, I'm just guessing from the version numbers with "xamarin" in them
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15:30<twb>Hrm, apparently gnome3 doesn't pull in *any* mono apps anymore
15:32<bremner>dpkg: tell fl0at about bat
15:32<twb>What was that certificate we need to blacklist in ca-certificates to resolve that weird LE android negotiation thing
15:32<bremner>fl0at: bot sent you some hints about tracking down apt problems
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15:33<sarnold>twb: DST Root CA X3
15:33<sarnold>twb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ca-certificates/+bug/1944481
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15:33<twb>Thanks
15:34<twb>I lost my scrollback when I rebooted and my brain said "D3"
15:34<twb>hrm, did not fix "apt-listbugs list kpartx"
15:35<twb>f*cking ruby ssl
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15:35<fl0at>what is anything xamarin related doing on my system in the first place
15:36<fl0at>so strange
15:36*twb just clicks-through it and hopes there are no data loss errors this week
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15:37<twb>fl0at: OK, FYI, with ZFS /, "sudo apt install gbrainy --no-install-recommends && gbrainy" works for me
15:37<twb>fl0at: mono and java do need /proc/self/exe to resolve correctly at install time
15:37<twb>fl0at: is it possible you unmounted /proc ?
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15:39<fl0at>twb: proc is mounted
15:39<karlpinc>Yipes. Had to upgrade to bullseye to make erc (emacs irc) work with TLS.
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15:40<bremner>well, upgrading to bullseye is a good idea for most people anyway.
15:41<karlpinc>Nice to be back. (ish) I've always been on freenode instead of oftc. Just because. With the "freenode stuff" are people there anymore?
15:41<bremner>no. Some are on libera.chat
15:41<karlpinc>I guess I may as well be here, since oftc is official.
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15:43<karlpinc>The dpkg bot is the same one here that used to be on freenode?
15:43<bremner>yep
15:43<bremner>except it doesn't talk about freenode any more :P
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15:45<karlpinc>Thanks. Having missed the bullseye announcement and all the subsequent upgrade chat, aside from using the bot, is there an obvious way to navigate to the release notes from the debian home page? (Personal gripe: It should really be called the upgrade instructions.)
15:45<karlpinc>It's become hard to be annoyed that people don't follow the upgrade instructions when they've become so hard to find. :)
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15:47<bremner>iirc, they are linked directly from the download page. But I agree upgrading people wouldn't necesarily look there
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15:48<karlpinc>(This upgrade went really smoothly. Sane works, cups works, I've yet to upgrade the postgres db, but that is just an extra step and always seems to work. I've not had to do much at all.)
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15:49<fl0at>I managed to fix it haha
15:49<fl0at>thanks for your help bremner and twb
15:49<karlpinc>bremner: Yup that's where it is. You click on the "download" link and the release note link is right there. (But of course you don't want to download at all.)
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15:49<fl0at>what packages might mono be required to build for though? so confusing
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15:54<bremner>karlpinc: fwiw, also linked from the Debian 11 news item, currently on the front page
15:56<karlpinc>bremner: That I noticed. But of course that news will eventually become stale. Someday I'll file a bug report....
15:57<bremner>someone(TM) should...
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16:00<karlpinc>I'm wondering if I've a security related mis-configuration. (I'll eventually look into this, but if anybody happens to know I'd like to be schooled.) I'm running xsane on a box that is a X client, FWIW, to use an ethernet connected scanner. When I start xsane (as a regular user) I get a dialog asking for the root password. This is new with bullseye.
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16:02<bremner>karlpinc: maybe not a solution, but see if you have the same problem with "simple-scan"?
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16:02<karlpinc>I may have frobbed the scanner's driver config and added "scsi", which might require a password depending on udev permissions. Let me check that.
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16:03<karlpinc>bremner: No. Don't know about simple-scan. (Always used xsane, which always works and was so annoying to set up, back in the day, that I don't even know there are alternatives.)
16:04<Sqrt{not}>karlpinc, also the release notes for bullseye talk about driverless scanning now
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16:05<karlpinc>Sqrt{not}: Yeah. I figured I'd go with what has worked in the past. Hard to say how old the scanner is, but it could easily be more than 5 years. Thatnks though.
16:06<Sqrt{not}>FWIW my >5yo printer works great with driverless printing.
16:06<karlpinc>Nope, I didn't change the back-end config. Oh well. Thanks for the feedback. I'll poke it with a stick eventually. Right now it at least it works.
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16:12<karlpinc>FWIW, simple-scan does the same thing. Dialog box says: Authentication is required to manage system services or other units. An application is attempting to perform an action that requires privileges. Authentication as the super user is required to perform this action. Action: org.freedesktop.systemd1.manage-units
16:12<karlpinc>At least I know to poke at systemd.
16:15<bremner>huh. I don't see anything like that, but everything seems very scanner (or at least backend) dependent.
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16:19<karlpinc>FWIW, it also prompts for the root password (again) when I start up a scanning program to start avahi-daemon.
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16:21<twb>Per https://pwg.org, driverless printing SHOULD work on MOST printers sold on or after 2011 (10 years ago)
16:21<karlpinc>(I'm just happy to be back on irc so I can spread my confusion thinly over many people. :)
16:22<karlpinc>twb: Thanks. I'll definately give that a try. (Just to keep from having to mess with the backend config. Although i don't suppose it with help with systemd related permissions.)
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16:25<Sqrt{not}>that dialog looks very similar to the kind you get from things that want PolicyKit authorization.
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16:27<Sqrt{not}>polkit is rather icky, but at least you can make it happy with just your user password (and membership in group adm) instead of requiring root's password
16:27<twb>That prompt indicates polkit is working, yeah
16:28<karlpinc>I've never had to think about policykit, or dbus for that matter. I imagine now's the time. (I am in the adm group.)
16:29<twb>karlpinc: polkit doesn't care about that. It cares that you are the "active seat" according to loginctl
16:29<karlpinc>Darn. I was hopeing to get extra points for still being in the "floppy" group. :)
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16:31<Sqrt{not}>hmmm, I also seem to be in groups lpadmin and scanner (and many other probably obsolete ones)
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16:33<karlpinc>"loginctl list-sessions" shows nothing under "SEAT".
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16:59<somiaj>Sqrt{not}: is lpadmin not needed, I still add myself to it by default for cups
17:00<somiaj>though I guess systemd-user is taking care of a bunch of stuff that groups use to
17:01<Sqrt{not}>somiaj, me too, i think that's exactly right, cups has its own older ideas about auth.
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17:03<Sqrt{not}>I'm not sure why I need to be in groups dip, cdrom, and disk. (and bluetooth -- this box doesn't even have that)
17:03<twb>karlpinc: "nothing under seat" probably indicates that your system isn't "fully systemdized" in some way
17:03<twb>karlpinc: have you done anything deliberately to cause that?
17:04<karlpinc>twb: No. It's probably due to having upgraded over time from sarge.
17:04<twb>karlpinc: if not, confirm libpam-systemd is installed, and that you are logging in with something that uses pam (e.g. getty or openssh-server, but not dropbear or tinysshd)
17:04<somiaj>Sqrt{not}: the installer puts you in some of those, so I'm not sure either.
17:05<somiaj>but I'm in cdrom/floppy/audio/dip due to the installer I belive, same with plugdev and netdev
17:05<somiaj>this was a buster install, so unsure if bullseye has changed on this front yet, or maybe the installer hasn't caught up to systemd's newer methods fully
17:06<karlpinc>twb: libpam-systemd is installed. I'm logging in with xdm. (No clue whether that uses pam, but I'd think so.)
17:06<Sqrt{not}>at least I'm not in wheel on this machine
17:06<somiaj>we just call it sudo in debian
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17:07<twb>karlpinc: xdm uses pam
17:08<twb>karlpinc: is there a "systemd --user" process running for your user?
17:08<twb>karlpinc: is your running kernel reasonably new (5.x) ?
17:08<twb>somiaj: the installer will add you to those groups regardless, probably, on the basis that "you might switch to sysvinit later"
17:09<twb>somiaj: they don't *hurt*.
17:09<somiaj>yea, though with the new vote, maybe the installer should be updated. Either way, not a big deal, I'm fine with the installer being slow on updating things for compadability
17:10<karlpinc>twb: I did add the line "session optional pam_umask.so usergroups" to the bottom of /etc/pam.d/common-session. But that shouldn't matter.
17:10<twb>somiaj: also systemd does use "adm" group by default, at least, to allow "journalctl --system" without privesc. See "getfacl /var/log/journal"
17:10<twb>karlpinc: OK if you edited /etc/pam.d then all bets are off
17:10<karlpinc>twb: I'm running the stock bullseye kernel: 5.10.0-8-amd64
17:10<twb>karlpinc: even extremely clever sensible people like mjg59 managed to accidentally backdoor themselves by editing pam.d
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17:11<Guest1247>thought it was systemd-journal group hmmm
17:11<twb>Guest1247: "group:adm:r-x" right now
17:11<karlpinc>twb: Yeah, but pam_umask only frobs the umask (and is there to toggle the UPG idiom.)
17:11<twb>Guest1247: this is who is allowed to *read* the journal
17:11<twb>Guest1247: systemd-journald process has higher privs, because it *writes* the journal
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17:12<twb>karlpinc: that's a nice thing to hope, but in my experience it is very easy to fuck up unrelated lines even with a rule that looks innocuous like that
17:12<karlpinc>twb: (Which really should be fine, since RH defaults to UPG and they drove systemd.)
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17:13<twb>karlpinc: the easy-to-screw-up part is not "pam_umask.so" it's "optional"
17:14<Guest1247>hmmm? -rw-r-----+ 1 root systemd-journal 8388608 Oct 5 22:12 system.journal
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17:14<karlpinc>twb: It is the last line.... But yes.
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17:14<ansgar>Guest1247: The secret is the "+".
17:14<somiaj>twb: though the installer didn't put me in that group, something one need to manually do (i.e. adm group)
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17:16<Guest1247>setuid bit?
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17:17<twb>Guest1247: also note this is done by systemd-tmpfilesd, so it'll re-do that even if you go "I think this is dumb I'm removing it"
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17:18<Guest1247>hmmm
17:18<twb>Guest1247: you want "getfacl .../systemd.journal"
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17:19<twb>It's in the "acl" package, which you might not have. systemd itself uses libc calls, so it doesn't need that binary
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19:24<Emil>How can I control dual displays without x?
19:24<Emil>Right now they seem to be mirrored
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19:30<boud>Emil: maybe wlr-randr but this is just a guess
19:30<somiaj>randr is xorg
19:31<somiaj>If they are at the kernel/tty level unsure, but the key maybe in the kms drivers
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19:50<twb>From earlier messages, I suspect they mean fbcon -- no x, no wl
19:50<twb>AFAIK you cannot have multiple (different) displays in fbcon
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20:57<Emil>Okay so I installed x
20:57<Emil>and openbox
20:58<Emil>But I still can't seem to get hardware acceleration
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21:01<tzf-[m]>xcompmgr ?
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21:02<awal1>Emil, i run openbox and i use compton. all fine :)
21:03<awal1>compton is based on xcompmgr
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21:03<Emil>awal1: what base system? What hardware?
21:03<Emil>I have Rpi42GB
21:04<Emil>And currently trying debian on it (because I couldn't get the raspberry pi os images to work either)
21:04<awal1>but compton is "This package is deprecated and will soon be removed, please switch to picom." as the maintainer says
21:04<awal1>so the recommended now is picom
21:05-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
21:05<awal1>i just run window managers, mainly openbox
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21:05<awal1>i have a lenovo, intel i3 core
21:06<awal1>,v picom
21:06<judd>Package: picom on amd64 -- bookworm: 8.2-1; bullseye: 8.2-1; sid: 8.2-1
21:06<Emil>Does anyone know if the ubuntu images have hw acceleration working?
21:06<Emil>sorry about that, was supposed to go to #raspberrypi
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21:06<Emil>yes I'm desperate enough to try Ubuntu now
21:07<awal1>just to let you know, read the following
21:07<awal1>!based on debian
21:07<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
21:07<Emil>I know
21:07<Emil>Like I said, that was supposed to go to another channel
21:08<awal1>you can ask anything you want but people here only try to give support for debian
21:08<Emil>I know
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21:14<stephen>guys, I just updated my kernel from 6.10 to 6.14, but I can't launch my vms from virtualbox, what should I do?
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21:17<somiaj>use valid kernel versions, but more relastically, you have to build the vbox module against the new kernel
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21:21<stephen>how to do that
21:21<Sqrt{not}>stephen, what version of debian are you running there?
21:22<stephen>I'm using deepin, is that okay?
21:22<somiaj>we don't support derviatives here
21:22<stephen>I thought it based on debian
21:22<Sqrt{not}>%deepin
21:22<dselect>deepin is a Chinese distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported on #debian. Try their forums at https://www.deepin.org/en/
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21:22<Sqrt{not}>we just don't know about it. try there forums
21:22<stephen>oh, fine
21:22<somiaj>!based on debian
21:22<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
21:23<stephen>okay, but their community usually not very active
21:23<Sqrt{not}>stephen, we do not know. sorry
21:24<stephen>thanks for all replies from you
21:24<somiaj>the big hint is you need to rebuild the vbox module against your new kernel, this totally depends on how vbox is installed (since debian no longer ships vbox, derivatives may do things their own way)
21:24<sarnold>and different distributions will do their kernels in different ways
21:25<stephen>oh
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21:25<Sqrt{not}>stephen, if you install debian, we can give lots of help ;)
21:26<stephen>I'm planning to install debian on my laptop, but it only support wi-fi connection, can I do that during the installation?
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21:26<Sqrt{not}>yes. probably best to use one of the "firmware" installers
21:27<Sqrt{not}>that way, you will have the wifi firmware in the installer. It is a pain to get those wifi only things working without firmware
21:28<Sqrt{not}>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.0.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/
21:28<stephen>oh, thanks
21:28<Sqrt{not}>hmmm, no, that's not what i wanted.
21:29-!-voyager1 [~voyager1@0002a22b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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21:29<Sqrt{not}>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.0.0+nonfree/
21:29<Sqrt{not}>there you can find the netinstallers for whatever hardware you are running
21:29<stephen>yeah, I saw that
21:30<stephen>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.0.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-11.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
21:30<stephen>is this ok?
21:30<Sqrt{not}>yes, good
21:30<stephen>k
21:30<Sqrt{not}>the dvd has lots more packages right on it, so you don't need to download so much extra during the install
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21:32<awal1>,v virtualbox
21:32<judd>Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.1.26-dfsg-4
21:32<sarnold>but you trade that against how much you download upfront, right?
21:32<stephen>Oh, that's good
21:33<stephen>how is that say
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21:35<Sqrt{not}>the dvd is 3.7 GB, the firmware installer is 472 MB
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21:36<stephen>oh sure
21:36<sarnold>wow that's a big difference :)
21:37<Sqrt{not}>then the firmware version, downloads on demand what you choose during the install
21:37<Sqrt{not}>the netinstall version, i mean
21:38<Sqrt{not}>and you certainly won't choose EVERYTHING
21:38<stephen>well I think I prefer offline installation
21:39<Sqrt{not}>the DVD works too :)
21:39<stephen>My network is terrible
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21:39<stephen>will the installer support driver of amd ryzen?
21:39<stephen>and amd radeon graphic card?
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21:46<Sqrt{not}>stephen, I don't have any experience with those. I'll invoke a couple info-bot factoids about those things -- it looks like there is some support
21:46<Sqrt{not}>!radeon
21:46<dpkg>Radeon is a brand of graphic processing units by AMD/ATI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). The radeon open source display driver is packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration. Also ask me about <radeon firmware>, <radeon audio>. https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo http://x.org/wiki/radeon #radeon on irc.oftc.net. For the proprietary driver, see <fglrx>.
21:46<Sqrt{not}>%radeon firmware
21:46<dselect>Binary-only firmware for the amdgpu and radeon <DRM> drivers is packaged for Debian as firmware-amd-graphics. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or missing video features are commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>, then install firmware-amd-graphics.
21:47<somiaj>most likely it is the kernel version, debian has 5.10 and supports most newer stuff. I had no issues installing it on my reyzen
21:47<somiaj>though bleeding edge might not have full support
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21:50<stephen>it is installable during the installation right?
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21:51<stephen>that's good enough
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22:00<somiaj>!firmware images
22:00<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>.
22:01<somiaj>you may have to install the firmware firmware-amd-graphics afterwards if you don't use the firmware installer
22:01<somiaj>but provided the machine isn't bleeding edge hardware you'll most likely be just fine
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22:05<stephen>well, I will use the firmware installer :)
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22:07<aloo_shu>so this is a debian question only in that apt comes from debian: what's the difference between InRelease and Release, and how can I tell apt to look for the latter, not the former
22:08<sarnold>InRelease is like the Release and Release.gpg files glued together into one thing; before InRelease files, it was possible to catch mirror networks updating, or publication process, in progress and get the Release file before the Release.gpg file has been updated -- or the other way around
22:09<sarnold>any individual computer wouldn't be likely to hit it, but with tens of million machines asking for these things every day it certainly happened
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22:12<aloo_shu>so, is there a way to influence which of the two formats apt is expecting? I'm trying to add a repo (that is frozen anyway) that doesn't have an InRelease file, and the apt I got, is complaining
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22:14<sarnold>I was under the impression apt would request the InRelease file first and if it didn't exist, request the Release* files
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22:15<sarnold>don't just go by the error messages that it emits, it does way more stuff behind the scenes
22:15<sarnold>there's a setting you can use to get verbose http logging, it's almost too much. it is too much. :) maybe server access logs would be more useful
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22:15<aloo_shu>ah ok
22:15<aloo_shu>nah that server is archive.org
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22:17<sarnold>hah :)
22:17<sarnold>then you're not going to want to read those logs :)
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22:39<aloo_shu>so, for whatever reason, that server returns NOSPLIT instead of whatever a normal file not found response would be, and apt-get stops there and then instead of trying Release after InRelease. Or that's how it's looking
22:41<sarnold>oh that's not fun. firefox tells me I've seen this askubuntu question before..
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22:42<aloo_shu>they were rather complex urls that make archive.org show the contents of a tar.gz archive
22:42<sarnold>crap middleware proxy boxes is my guess
22:42<aloo_shu>the college kid? that's what I was just looking at :)
22:42<sarnold>yeah :)
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22:42<sarnold>but all the other descriptions of things seem to be grasping at straws
22:42<aloo_shu>yeah in that case prolly this extraction on the fly
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22:45<aloo_shu>so, nobody has been suggesting that there, but can't I tell apt to not even try InRelease? or is that hardcoded since it became a feature? I've tried prepending [allow-insecure=yes] to the url, no difference
22:49<alex11>if uname -a tells me Linux debian 5.10.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.46-5 (2021-09-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux - which one is the debian version number and which one is the upstream?
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22:50<themill>alex11: 5.10.46-5 is the version of the package called linux-image-5.10.0-8-amd64
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22:51<aloo_shu>cat /etc/debian_version is what you might want
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22:52<aloo_shu>afaik, uname doesn't provide that
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22:53<alex11>i mean that just gives the current release, 11.0
22:53<alex11>nothing to do with the kernel
22:53<aloo_shu>oh well depending on what your question was
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22:53<aloo_shu>yeah, I misread your question
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 06 00:00:08 2021