| --- | Log | opened Wed Oct 06 00:00:08 2021 |
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| 00:07 | <Sqrt{not}> | aloo_shu, I probably don't understand your archive question, but would http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/ help at all? |
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| 00:11 | <danielssan> | alex11: 5.10.46 is upstream |
| 00:12 | <aloo_shu> | Sqrt{not}: nah, it's not debian, see initial post. but apt is a debian creation, so I was hoping for some insights for influencing its behaviour, specifically, not trying InRelease before Release+Release.gpg |
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| 00:17 | <Sqrt{not}> | heh, OK. those other debian imitators need to imitate debian's archive now |
| 00:18 | <aloo_shu> | the repo in question, is archived and tar'ed up, meant to be downloaded & used with a server, but since archive.org was offering to view and access tar archive *contents*, I felt like I might be lucky, and able to use that archived repo as-is |
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| 00:23 | <aloo_shu> | well they do imitate the archive structure good enough, the obstacle most likely is the response the server is giving when the file it's being asked to extract from the tar archive, doesn't exist, it's a NOSPLIT, and that's freaking apt enough to not even try to get Release instead of Release, making assumptions why that NOSPLIT was received |
| 00:23 | <aloo_shu> | *Release instead of InRelease |
| 00:25 | <aloo_shu> | the project isn't imitating debian, btw, they're just using apt |
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| 00:31 | <aloo_shu> | I've looked at man apt-secure, apt-get, apt_config, apt.conf, sources.list; didn't see a way to make that error a warning, or to explicitly force use of Release over InRelease |
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| 04:44 | <aidalgol> | Sometimes when running «apt-get upgrade», I get a prompt asking whether to go ahead and restart services without asking again. How does unattended-upgrades handle this? |
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| 05:42 | <mooff> | aidalgol: in the temporary absence of more informed replies.. i *assume* it restarts the services that would be automatically marked in the interactive dialog |
| 05:43 | <aidalgol> | That would be my guess, too. |
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| 05:45 | -!- | zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian |
| 05:45 | <mooff> | better answer: you get that prompt when libraries have been updated that services depend on - not when the services have been updated themselves |
| 05:46 | <mooff> | in the latter case, the package for the service will usually restart it automatically during the upgrade |
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| 05:46 | -!- | bertbob is "Bert" on #debian #debian-next |
| 05:47 | <mooff> | in the former - i actually think that might be one scenario (in addition to kernel updates) that trigger the 'Automatic-Reboot' feature / setting |
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| 05:47 | -!- | petervbeck is "Peter V. Beck" on #packaging #debian |
| 05:47 | <mooff> | but don't quote me on it. just a surmision from Google results |
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| 07:47 | -!- | hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 08:02 | <Guest1986> | Hi |
| 08:02 | <format_c> | hi |
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| 08:04 | <bremner> | !next |
| 08:04 | <dpkg> | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 08:04 | -!- | OlegH is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian |
| 08:05 | <OlegH> | Hey there! |
| 08:05 | <OlegH> | I've updated my server to bullseye a couple of days ago and since then I'm unable to get IPv4 networking to work properly again. |
| 08:05 | <OlegH> | IPv6 seems to work like charm. |
| 08:06 | <OlegH> | I can also connected to the hosted VMs on the server over IPv4 without problems. |
| 08:06 | <OlegH> | However, when I try to address the server directly, all packets seem to be dropped on the outgoing line. |
| 08:07 | -!- | dpanter [~dpanter@0002672e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 08:07 | <OlegH> | If, for instance, I ping the server, I can see the ICMPv6 echo requests _and_ replies in tcpdump, but the pinging peer won't never receive the replies. |
| 08:08 | <bremner> | do you control the network between the pinger and the server? |
| 08:08 | <OlegH> | nope, it's WAN the server is hosted in a data center |
| 08:09 | <OlegH> | but since the problem first appeared after the update and worked for years without an issue, I assume that the problem is rather related to the server configuration |
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| 08:27 | <bittin> | All presentations from the Mini Debconf in Germany last weekend is uploaded as videos now: https://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2021/MiniDebConf-Regensburg/ |
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| 09:04 | <Finrod> | I need help installing Sparky Linux |
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| 09:05 | -!- | azeem_ is "Michael Banck" on #debian-glibc #elephant-shed #debichem #debian-hpc #debian-berlin #debian |
| 09:05 | <Finrod> | I'm trying to install 32bit SparkLinux 5.15 LxQt v 0.14.1 with a separate root, swap and home partition |
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| 09:06 | <Finrod> | and I keep getting booted into GRUB rescue every time I reboot after a successful installation |
| 09:06 | <Finrod> | I think the mistake I made was creating a separate boot partition |
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| 09:11 | <jm_> | how did you end up asking about sparky linux in #debian? |
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| 09:14 | <bremner> | they left, so I guess we'll never know |
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| 09:59 | <stephen> | is this where I can ask beginner questions? |
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| 09:59 | -!- | khalid_ is "Khalid Aziz" on #debian |
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| 10:00 | <simonpatapon> | yes |
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| 10:00 | <simonpatapon> | do you have any other question? |
| 10:00 | <stephen> | what is the difference between Ubuntu and debian? |
| 10:01 | <dwerp> | Can someone help me get a grub entry to boot windows 10 of a second hdd? https://wiki.debian.org/DualBoot/Windows says os-prober (which is installed) should find Windows 10 when I do update-grub but no windows entry is generated |
| 10:01 | <danielssan> | dwerp: did you make sure that both systems use the same boot method (legacy/bios or uefi)? |
| 10:02 | -!- | trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@ec2-52-15-173-116.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian |
| 10:02 | -!- | trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian |
| 10:02 | <dwerp> | danielssan: oh, no. I don't know how to check that. |
| 10:03 | <danielssan> | hm on which side are you on right now? debian? |
| 10:04 | <dwerp> | debian |
| 10:04 | <danielssan> | is ls /sys/firmware/efi/vars/ populated? |
| 10:05 | <dwerp> | danielssan: no it's empty |
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| 10:06 | -!- | ArtGravity is "Grav" on #debian #wiztech-noc #sosdg |
| 10:07 | <danielssan> | dwerp: can you check if grub-efi-amd64-signed is installed? |
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| 10:08 | -!- | towo` is "Torsten Wohlfarth" on #debian-next #vboxger #kvm #kernelnewbies #vbox #radeon #debian-offtopic #debian #siduction-admin #kanotix |
| 10:09 | <dwerp> | danielssan: it's not installed |
| 10:10 | <danielssan> | great so please install it. |
| 10:11 | <danielssan> | dwerp: afterwards, just to make sure, please 'sudo grub-install --target=x86_64-efi' (to make sure that it's installed the uefi way) |
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| 10:12 | -!- | semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee |
| 10:16 | <dwerp> | the latter gives "grub-install: error: cannot find EFI directory." |
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| 10:17 | -!- | semeion_ is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee |
| 10:17 | <dwerp> | danielssan: ^ |
| 10:18 | <danielssan> | dwerp: what does 'sudo grub-install --target=i386-pc /dev/sdX' give you (sdX being your disk where linux is primarily installed) |
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| 10:20 | -!- | ThothK is "purple" on #debian #freebsd |
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| 10:21 | <dwerp> | it's /dev/sda drive with a sda1 and sda5 partition, do I specify /dev/sda? |
| 10:21 | <danielssan> | yes |
| 10:22 | <dwerp> | "Installation finished. No error reported." |
| 10:22 | <danielssan> | great, do you have a live usb around? |
| 10:22 | <dwerp> | No :-/ |
| 10:24 | <danielssan> | dwerp: damn, as we need to boot a linux in uefi mode to install grub in uefi mode :/ |
| 10:24 | <danielssan> | is there any way you can get one? |
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| 10:24 | <dwerp> | I have a 2 GB stick here if that's enough |
| 10:24 | <danielssan> | dwerp: plenty ;) |
| 10:25 | <danielssan> | the netinstall is enough (which is like 400megs?) |
| 10:25 | <dwerp> | Oh it already had the Debian 10 installer on it |
| 10:25 | <dwerp> | hah |
| 10:25 | <danielssan> | dwerp: great :) |
| 10:25 | <danielssan> | could you boot the rescue mode (under advanced) |
| 10:26 | <danielssan> | or are you in irc on that computer? |
| 10:26 | <dwerp> | yeah I am. I'll connect wih my phone |
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| 10:27 | <danielssan> | dwerp: great, so go through the wizards till he asks you if you want to chroot into the system (which yes you want) |
| 10:27 | <danielssan> | but make sure the installer is booted in uefi |
| 10:27 | <danielssan> | (which is displayed in the grub menu of the iso) |
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| 10:28 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: wb ;) |
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| 10:28 | <dwerp2> | Hey :) |
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| 10:29 | <dwerp> | if I would reboot my system now and try to boot into Debian, it wouldn't work right now? |
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| 10:30 | <danielssan> | dwerp: no it will work, as we made sure that grub is still installed in legacy mode |
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| 10:32 | <dwerp> | Kind of scary still :). I'll do it and get back through phone. |
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| 10:32 | <dwerp> | brb |
| 10:32 | <danielssan> | dwerp: sure :) but to be clear, everything is fixable ;) |
| 10:32 | <dwerp> | \o/ |
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| 10:36 | <dwerp2> | danielssan: grub says bios mode |
| 10:37 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: huh, did you make sure to boot the correct way (normally there is a boot menu on f11 or f12 when booting) |
| 10:37 | <danielssan> | where you can select the correct one |
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| 10:40 | <dwerp2> | I'm on a thinpad t520. I pressed the think vantage button, then f12 to change temporary startup media, then the USB drive |
| 10:41 | <hefe_> | Does Debian have some kind of changelog between the minor versions e.g. between 10.9 and 10.10? |
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| 10:41 | <danielssan> | hefe_: basically in the announcement it tells you what was fixed etc |
| 10:42 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: hm, so there is no option for uefi? |
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| 10:42 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: did you make sure that uefi is enabled in the bios/uefi? |
| 10:42 | <hefe_> | Sqrt{not}: I'm still here with my EFI problem. I tested the last few images and found out that 10.9 is the last version that I can boot. Starting with 10.10 I'll get my beautiful error message :( |
| 10:42 | <danielssan> | hefe_: so for example https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20210619 |
| 10:43 | <hefe_> | Thank you |
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| 10:44 | <dwerp2> | Fixed bios. In uefi boot now :) |
| 10:44 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: great :) |
| 10:44 | <danielssan> | dwerp2 but then how was windows installed oO |
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| 10:46 | <dwerp2> | danielssan: it went fine... If I have to reinstall windows that's ok |
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| 10:47 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: no i am just asking, if uefi was disabled (which means windows should have been installed in legacy mode) os-prober should have found windows :/ |
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| 10:48 | <dwerp2> | I don't know danielssan... |
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| 10:49 | <dwerp2> | Do I need net access? Installer seems to have problems configuring network |
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| 10:49 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: probably not |
| 10:50 | <twb> | hefe_: if you install with network access, installing from 10.9 and installing from 10.10 should end up with 100% identical result on the installed system |
| 10:50 | <twb> | hefe_: is the problem booting the install media itself, or is the problem booting the installed system, after the install is done? |
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| 10:52 | <dwerp2> | danielssan it asked me to enter encryption pass so did so. Now wants to enter dev to use as root file system |
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| 10:53 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: great are you already in the installed system/ |
| 10:53 | <danielssan> | ? |
| 10:53 | <hefe_> | twb: The problem is booting the setup from the stick. I explained my problem here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/671787/debian-11-setup-fails-with-a-shim-init-error |
| 10:53 | <dwerp2> | /dev/mapper/sdb5_crypt I guess |
| 10:53 | <danielssan> | ahh yeah :) |
| 10:54 | <hefe_> | I tried various images and multiple ways to bring the image onto different sticks. The problem is a probably a shim update that shipped with 10.10. Disabling secure boot didn't help. |
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| 10:54 | <twb> | So the problem is happening inside grub? |
| 10:54 | <dwerp2> | Danielssan mount failed on that dev :-/ |
| 10:55 | <hefe_> | I don't know. I don't see anything. No Fujitsu or Debian logo, no loading animation or something like that. I get a black screen displaying this message. After that the notebook turns itself off. So yes, it probably happens right at the beginning. |
| 10:55 | <dwerp2> | Danielssan I'm sorry I don't know more. Trying my best. Thanks for helping. |
| 10:56 | <twb> | hefe_: can you get to an EFI> prompt? |
| 10:56 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: so are you sure that's where debian is installed? |
| 10:56 | <dwerp2> | Danielssan no I don't remember the partition :-( |
| 10:57 | <dwerp2> | Ugh |
| 10:57 | <hefe_> | twb: I'll try. Give me a minute. |
| 10:57 | <twb> | I'm still confused as to whether the INSTALLER fails to boot, or the installer boots and installs, then the INSTALLED system fails to boot. |
| 10:58 | <hefe_> | The installer fails to boot. |
| 10:58 | <twb> | Ah thanks |
| 10:58 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: still sounds like that's where your install is. so can you repeat what the error is which the gui gives you? |
| 10:58 | <twb> | hefe_: do you have anything at all that can boot on that system? |
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| 10:59 | <hefe_> | Yes. Everything else. Windows 10, openSuse Leap, openSuse Tumbleweed, Ubuntu 21.04 and older versions. Everything works except for Debian. |
| 10:59 | <twb> | OK. |
| 11:00 | <dwerp2> | An error occurred while mounting the device you entered for your root file system (/dev/mapper/sdb5_crypt) on /target |
| 11:00 | <twb> | So we're just going to do an end-run around this and drop the installer straight into /boot/efi/EFI/debian-installer/ |
| 11:00 | <dwerp2> | Check syslog for info |
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| 11:00 | <Sqrt{not}> | hefe_, I agree it is very likely that shim (and shim-helpers) update introduced in 10.10. Since you already started explaining your problem yesterday in #debian-efi, I think you should rejoin that channel (in addition to here) and mention that new info, and STAY in that channel as long as you can. |
| 11:01 | <dwerp2> | I'm pretty sure it's on sdb which also is listed but I entered the password to decrypt it |
| 11:01 | <twb> | Ah that sounds even better |
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| 11:02 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: the decrypt part worked i assume? |
| 11:02 | <dwerp2> | Yes |
| 11:03 | <hefe_> | Sqrt{not}: Yes, I'll do that. |
| 11:03 | <hefe_> | twb: I honestly don't know how I can enter an EFI shell. |
| 11:03 | <twb> | It's usually one of the boot options |
| 11:03 | <jkc> | hefe_: That should be a ... yeah. |
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| 11:03 | <jkc> | twb++ |
| 11:03 | <twb> | hefe_: but you should talk to #debian-efi first. I'm not an expert at shim or grub. |
| 11:04 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: let me check something for a sec |
| 11:04 | <dwerp2> | Danielssan <3 |
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| 11:08 | <dwerp2> | Danielssan um there is /dev/t520-vg/root ... |
| 11:08 | <dwerp2> | Should I try that? |
| 11:09 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: just try it, it won't hurt (but that's is what I was figuring out, how the default install looks like) |
| 11:10 | <dwerp2> | "mount separate /boot partition?" |
| 11:10 | <dwerp2> | Yes :) |
| 11:10 | <danielssan> | if you have one yes |
| 11:10 | <dwerp2> | Ok so what now |
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| 11:11 | <danielssan> | did you enter the chrooted system? |
| 11:11 | <dwerp2> | Execute shell? |
| 11:11 | <danielssan> | yes |
| 11:11 | <dwerp2> | Seems to work |
| 11:11 | <Sqrt{not}> | hefe_, that looks good in the other channel. try to stay there as long as you can. most of the folks who deal with EFI in debian are in Euro time zones |
| 11:12 | <danielssan> | great, if you are inside, do "grub-install --target=x86_64-efi" again |
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| 11:13 | <hefe_> | I'm also in CEST but yeah, I'll stay online at least the next six hours. |
| 11:13 | <dwerp2> | Cannot find efi directory |
| 11:13 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: great :) |
| 11:13 | <danielssan> | so I assume you have a efi partition? |
| 11:14 | <dwerp2> | I'm not sure |
| 11:14 | <dwerp2> | I know nothing about efi |
| 11:15 | <danielssan> | hm, you can see your parttions with "fdisk -l" |
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| 11:16 | <danielssan> | (which should default to sda) |
| 11:16 | <danielssan> | and if you want sdb just fdisk -l /dev/sdb |
| 11:16 | <dwerp2> | It's sdb |
| 11:16 | <danielssan> | I assume you only have 1 disk in that laptop? |
| 11:17 | <dwerp2> | Sdb has 3 partitions |
| 11:17 | <dwerp2> | No two |
| 11:17 | <danielssan> | huh? so where is you windows install then? |
| 11:17 | <danielssan> | or is that included? |
| 11:18 | <dwerp2> | On the second hdd |
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| 11:18 | <dwerp2> | Sda |
| 11:18 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: is that sdc? |
| 11:18 | <danielssan> | ahh |
| 11:18 | <danielssan> | so is there a partition on sda that's about 1gig in size? |
| 11:18 | <dwerp2> | 243M |
| 11:18 | <dwerp2> | Type linux |
| 11:19 | <dwerp2> | At start |
| 11:19 | <danielssan> | anything dos type? |
| 11:19 | <dwerp2> | No |
| 11:19 | <dwerp2> | Linux, extended and linux |
| 11:19 | <danielssan> | now it's getting really interesting |
| 11:20 | <dwerp2> | Anyway I can boot still to my old system you think if we can't solve this? |
| 11:20 | <danielssan> | you should be perfectly fine with booting your old system |
| 11:20 | <dwerp2> | Awesome |
| 11:21 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: so, somehow windows got installed in legacy mode, but os-prober can't find windows :/ |
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| 11:21 | <dwerp2> | I can try again? |
| 11:21 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: sure |
| 11:22 | <dwerp2> | Just run os-prober? |
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| 11:22 | <danielssan> | yes, but update-grub is imo better |
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| 11:23 | <danielssan> | which invokes os-prboer |
| 11:23 | <dwerp2> | Yay |
| 11:23 | <dwerp2> | It found it |
| 11:24 | <dwerp2> | New grub.cfg entry |
| 11:24 | <danielssan> | great :) |
| 11:24 | <dwerp2> | Just shutdown - r now? |
| 11:24 | <danielssan> | yup |
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| 11:25 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: because you are on legacy, just remember the recovery thing we did, as windows will sometimes overwrite grub. which means you can't boot into linux |
| 11:25 | <danielssan> | so keeping a recovery usb stick around is necessary :/ |
| 11:26 | <dwerp2> | Danielssan ok. Well grub has an entry windows boot manager on /dev/sda1 |
| 11:27 | <dwerp2> | But booting fails with |
| 11:27 | <danielssan> | what error comes up? |
| 11:28 | <dwerp2> | error no such device <an uuid> |
| 11:28 | <dwerp2> | Error no such partition |
| 11:28 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: that's windows or linux? |
| 11:28 | <dwerp2> | Windows hdd |
| 11:28 | <danielssan> | i meant, when you are trying to boot windows? |
| 11:28 | <dwerp2> | Yeah |
| 11:29 | <dwerp2> | Sda is, windows so it got that right at least |
| 11:29 | <danielssan> | i mean that's something you would need to repair probably with the windows installer cd :/ but that's almost out of my skill (had no windows for 20years or so) |
| 11:30 | <dwerp2> | Thanks for trying though. Maybe a reinstall of win when laptop is in efi mode can fix? |
| 11:30 | <dwerp2> | I can remove the Linux hdd during installation to prevent overwrite |
| 11:31 | <twb> | On modern hardware, I strongly recommend running either Windows or Linux as a VM, rather than dual-booting |
| 11:32 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: best would be go full uefi, linux and windows, as both can coexist (while with legacy it can't). when installing in uefi, just make sure that linux uses the same efi partition as windows |
| 11:32 | <danielssan> | twb: how come? with uefi, there is literally no reason not to dual boot (if you need) |
| 11:32 | <danielssan> | i can understand with mbr, as that was always a hassle |
| 11:32 | <twb> | danielssan: so you can run both at once |
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| 11:33 | <danielssan> | twb: it really depends on the use case. as not all of them can be used in a vm |
| 11:33 | <twb> | Fair |
| 11:34 | <aloo_shu> | you coul use the uuid's to check what the windows oot process is looking for. you also want to know if grub an't find the win bootmgr, or the win bootmgr can't find its windows |
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| 11:34 | <dwerp2> | Danielssan thanks for the help. Found another way that works. At boot I just click think Wantage button, choose temp boot media then windows boot loader and windows boots |
| 11:35 | <dwerp2> | So can do that when I want to boot win. |
| 11:36 | <danielssan> | dwerp2: yeah you can do that. :) but let's see how long that will last (i would be annoyed by it, and try to fix it asap) :) |
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| 11:37 | <dwerp2> | I really appreciate your time, and help danielssan |
| 11:37 | <dwerp2> | Thank you so much |
| 11:37 | <dwerp2> | Now I have to take a phone call |
| 11:37 | <dwerp2> | <3 |
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| 13:19 | <parrot> | hello |
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| 13:22 | <karlpinc> | twb: Using sane seems to cause a dialog asking for root priviliges because avahi-daemon is masked. Which is stupid because a masked service will never start. (Another bug report in the making....) |
| 13:22 | <karlpinc> | !tell parrot about ask |
| 13:23 | <twb> | karlpinc: you probably didn't mask the .socket |
| 13:23 | <parrot> | anyone can teach me stuff? |
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| 13:23 | <twb> | karlpinc: systemctl list-units '*avahi*' |
| 13:23 | <bremner> | dpkg: tell parrot about ask |
| 13:23 | <karlpinc> | parrot: Yes, but you have to ask a specific question. And no, this is not an education channel but a support channel. So if you need help on something specific just ask. |
| 13:24 | <bremner> | parrot: also, it's a channel for debian, not parrot, if that is what you are using |
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| 13:24 | <parrot> | karlpinc ok thanx |
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| 13:25 | <k4ck0> | exit |
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| 13:25 | <karlpinc> | twb: Why? (None, but that's good because I don't want avahi. Except possibly as a client-only. But I've got nothing I want to do with mdns at the moment.) |
| 13:27 | <karlpinc> | twb: You're quite right. I forgot to mask the socket. |
| 13:28 | <twb> | karlpinc: remember to disable --now before you mask it (or just reboot) |
| 13:29 | <twb> | you could probably just purge avahi-daemon entirely |
| 13:29 | <karlpinc> | twb: Ha! (can't disable a masked socket. :) |
| 13:30 | <karlpinc> | twb: Can't purge it as it seems to be required by various packages. |
| 13:30 | <twb> | "aptitude why avahi-daemon" |
| 13:30 | <karlpinc> | twb: Packages I don't want to remove. |
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| 13:31 | <twb> | I was curious as to which ones |
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| 13:32 | <karlpinc> | twb: ipp-usb and libnss-mdns. The latter I could remove. The former I want for "driverless printing". (At least in theory I want it.) Seemed easier to mask. |
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| 13:32 | -!- | holmgren is "Magnus Holmgren" on @#debian-se #debian |
| 13:34 | <karlpinc> | twb: Although "aptitude why" shows only that cups recommends it. Trying to remove it with aptitude gives me choices showing ipp-usb and libnss-mdns as requiring it. Why "aptitude why" gives me different output I don't know. |
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| 13:36 | <karlpinc> | twb: FWIW, disabling the avahi-daemon socket does not prevent the dialog from popping up. (At the end of the day I don't care much. But I figured I'd report back here.) |
| 13:37 | <twb> | karlpinc: OK |
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| 13:37 | <twb> | karlpinc: I am surprised it's a hard dependency |
| 13:37 | <twb> | karlpinc: you might be able to get it downgraded to Recommends if you can demonstrate it working without avahi |
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| 13:53 | <Sqrt{not}> | karlpinc, I think the avahi stuff is used to discover the addresses of networked printers or scanners |
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| 13:53 | <Sqrt{not}> | karlpinc, for the "driverless" stuff |
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| 14:02 | <Sqrt{not}> | karlpinc, ahh, and ipp-usb should be for driverless via usb, i think. I don' |
| 14:02 | <Sqrt{not}> | don't know how much ipp-usb and avahi might need each other |
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| 14:22 | <JoeFreddy> | Hello world |
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| 14:23 | <somiaj> | Someone just wrote their first irc bot |
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| 14:27 | <bittin> | :p |
| 14:28 | <sussudio> | somiaj: pretty sure that was a spammer who was banned before. |
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| 14:57 | -!- | mjsir911 is "Marco Sirabella" on #debian #oftc #novawebdev |
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| 15:01 | -!- | texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #hyprateam #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y |
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| 15:04 | -!- | arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian |
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| 15:04 | -!- | A|an is "realname" on #debian |
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| 15:04 | -!- | wayne2 is "..." on #debian |
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| 15:05 | -!- | david77-deb10 is "david77" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian |
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| 15:06 | <coc0nut> | is the iwlwifi driver included in install media for debian 11 btw? |
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| 15:07 | -!- | jpw is "..." on #debian-offtopic #debian |
| 15:08 | <sussudio> | coc0nut: it's non-free. |
| 15:08 | <coc0nut> | aha |
| 15:09 | <coc0nut> | a friend is installing debian on a old surface pro. was thinking it has no ethernet card so it might be an issue |
| 15:09 | <somiaj> | well the driver is free, the firmware is not |
| 15:09 | <somiaj> | !firmware images |
| 15:09 | <dpkg> | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>. |
| 15:09 | <somiaj> | you have basically three options, (1) use the unoffical firmware images, (2) provide the firmware on a seperate usb stick during the install, (3) install the firmware after you are done with the install (the installer doens't require internet) |
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| 15:11 | -!- | radio_nowhere is "realname" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian |
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| 15:18 | -!- | qwer is "real name" on #debian #linuxtv #v4l #debian-boinc #debian-gaming #debian-hamchat #linux-storage #linuxfriends #retroshare #radeon #Corsair #vectorlinux |
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| 15:18 | -!- | hyiltiz is "Flash Jones" on #freedombox #biz #virt #debian-next @#fishing #debian |
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| 15:20 | -!- | nuc is "realname" on #debian |
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| 15:20 | -!- | Despatche is "Wealth and glory to the winner" on #linux #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic |
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| 15:21 | -!- | heinrich is "henko" on #debian |
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| 15:29 | -!- | gamrix is "realname" on #debian |
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| 15:32 | -!- | clowninasack is "clowninasack" on #bitlbee #debian |
| 15:32 | -!- | clowninasack is now known as jgooch |
| 15:34 | -!- | malakim [~nulix@a89-155-237-74.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #debian |
| 15:34 | -!- | malakim is "lunix" on #hamradio #debian |
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| 15:35 | -!- | diego_ is "realname" on #debian |
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| 15:35 | -!- | arafel is "arafel,,," on #debian |
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| 15:37 | -!- | MisterC is "Ben C." on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian @#MrC |
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| 15:37 | -!- | ShaRose is "ShaRose" on #debian |
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| 15:37 | -!- | free4fun is "free4fun" on #debian-devel-es #debian-mentors-es @#debian-uy #debian |
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| 15:38 | -!- | edcragg is "Ed Cragg" on #debian @#url-bot-rs-status #url-bot-rs |
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| 15:39 | -!- | Xinayder is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian |
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| 15:44 | -!- | mbond is "mbond" on #debian |
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| 15:47 | -!- | _0xdd is "_0xdd" on #haiku #debian |
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| 15:50 | -!- | nuc is "realname" on #debian |
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| 15:51 | -!- | ax56234 is "truth" on #debian |
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| 15:58 | -!- | qwer is "real name" on #debian #linuxtv #v4l #debian-boinc #debian-gaming #debian-hamchat #linux-storage #linuxfriends #retroshare #radeon #Corsair #vectorlinux |
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| 16:02 | -!- | Etua is "Etua" on #openttd #debian-pl #debian #osm-pl |
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| 16:04 | -!- | nuc is "realname" on #debian |
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| 16:05 | -!- | mnemonic is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian #bitlbee |
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| 16:07 | -!- | Tas-sos is "Anastasios Lisgaras" on #debian-nyc #debian-vim #debian-desktop #skolelinux #debian-edu #debian-apache #debian-ai #debian-academy #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian |
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| 16:08 | -!- | nuc is "realname" on #debian |
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| 16:10 | -!- | timur_davletshin is "Timur Davletshin" on #oftc #debian |
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| 16:10 | -!- | nuc is "realname" on #debian |
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| 16:11 | -!- | toto_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next |
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| 16:12 | -!- | hyiltiz is "Flash Jones" on #freedombox #biz #virt #debian-next @#fishing #debian |
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| 16:22 | -!- | terrorjack5 is "Cheng Shao" on #debian #C #alpine-linux #alpine-devel |
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| 16:22 | -!- | alex599 is "alex" on #debian |
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| 16:25 | -!- | f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian |
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| 16:25 | -!- | Booda is "realname" on #ubuntu #linux #tor #debian |
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| 16:28 | -!- | nuc is "realname" on #debian |
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| 16:34 | -!- | artlogic is "artlogic" on #debian |
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| 16:40 | -!- | kura is "realname" on #debian |
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| 16:46 | <bittin> | done watching it all |
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| 16:46 | -!- | craigevil is "craig" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian |
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| 17:14 | -!- | pi_ is "pi" on #test1234 #debian |
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| 17:14 | -!- | guiverc is "Chris Guiver" on #debian #debian-ubuntu |
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| 17:18 | -!- | me is "me" on #debian |
| 17:19 | -!- | me is now known as Guest2024 |
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| 17:19 | -!- | root is "me" on #debian |
| 17:19 | -!- | root is now known as Guest2025 |
| 17:20 | <Guest2025> | hi |
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| 17:22 | -!- | me_ is "me" on #debian |
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| 17:35 | -!- | NeoCron is "Doraemon" on #debian #kvm #nouveau #linux #mesonbuild #mm #C #wayland #alpine-linux #virt |
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| 17:36 | -!- | khalid_ is "Khalid Aziz" on #debian |
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| 17:36 | -!- | leonardorocha is "realname" on #debian |
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| 17:47 | -!- | towo` is "Torsten Wohlfarth" on #debian-next #kanotix #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #vbox #siduction-admin #vboxger #radeon #kvm #debian |
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| 20:45 | <r4fkramer> | Hi all, please, I have this doubt regarding ZFS in debian: https://paste.debian.net/1214554/ |
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| 20:51 | <sarnold> | r4fkramer: the debian zfs root guide uses the dkms approach, it's probably pretty well tested https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html |
| 20:51 | <sarnold> | r4fkramer: I followed a very similar guide to install zfs root on ubuntu before that was a feature in the ubuntu installer, it went alright |
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| 20:54 | <twb> | sarnold: it still isn't, except for GUI ubuntu |
| 20:55 | <twb> | (last time I looked) |
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| 20:56 | <twb> | r4fkramer: I think your question is "can I have zfs.ko without compiling it myself (via zfs-dkms)?" The answer is "no". |
| 20:56 | <twb> | r4fkramer: write to your Oracle sales representative and ask them to fix the license they use for ZFS |
| 20:57 | <sarnold> | twb: yeah, it's not quite finished :( |
| 20:57 | <twb> | zsys looked nice in theiry but not fun to learn anytime soon |
| 20:58 | <twb> | one of their "60% finished" projects like netplan and mir and upstart |
| 20:59 | <sarnold> | you forgot click packaging and ubuntu touch and unity scopes and convergence |
| 21:00 | <twb> | landscape |
| 21:03 | <r4fkramer> | Fine, sarnold. I'd like an alternative for that. Anyway, I'll read it carefully and think about it. Thank You very much for attention and Great Support :) |
| 21:05 | <twb> | r4fkramer: Debian cannot legally give you an alternative. Complain to Oracle, who can fix it anytime they want. |
| 21:05 | <r4fkramer> | Fine twb, I understood it. Thank You for attention and Great Support. |
| 21:07 | <r4fkramer> | Please, twb, Was there a legal way around Canonical for zfs to be used natively in the Linux Kernel for Ubuntu? If this really happened, did I ever think that maybe this was possible in Debian ? |
| 21:08 | <twb> | r4fkramer: no. Canonical are breaking the law, and hoping Oracle will not sue them. |
| 21:08 | <r4fkramer> | Oh, bad english last sentence, sorry :( |
| 21:09 | <twb> | Canonical's lawyers might disagree. We can't know the "true" answer unless/until Oracle actually sues someone. |
| 21:10 | <r4fkramer> | I see, but in this case, does it apply to openZFS for Linux ? ZFS and openZFS differs a little in terms of development, or am I wrong ? |
| 21:10 | <r4fkramer> | zol |
| 21:11 | <twb> | r4fkramer: no. OpenZFS and ZOL are are derived (mostly) from Oracle-owned code, licensed under the CDDL. The CDDL was *specifically designed* to stop you doing what you want to do. |
| 21:12 | <r4fkramer> | Ok twb, thanks for information. |
| 21:13 | <twb> | It's true that Delphix et al own some of the code, so you'd also need to ask them for relicense permission |
| 21:13 | <sarnold> | plus whoever else has contributed since oracle dropped it |
| 21:13 | <twb> | Or, in theory, you could convince Linus et al to change the Linux kernel license from GPL2 to CDDL |
| 21:14 | <r4fkramer> | yes, really in theory, for I don't have this pretension (GPL2 => CDDL) |
| 21:14 | <twb> | Or you could try to create a Debian GNU/kSolaris kernel, but Solaris is proprietary since Oracle took over, and you'd still have the GPL-vs-CDDL issue |
| 21:14 | <r4fkramer> | Or Debian/Illumos Kernel. |
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| 21:15 | <twb> | I believe illumos is essentially a fork of opensolaris, from before oracle took over. |
| 21:15 | <r4fkramer> | I understood, but I really prefer continue using Linux Kernel |
| 21:15 | <twb> | so it's broadly stlil just ksol |
| 21:15 | <r4fkramer> | I see, twb |
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| 21:16 | <twb> | For me the tipping point was when OpenZFS 2.0 gave me the ability to do incremental encrypted backups to a host that doesn't have the decrypt keys |
| 21:17 | <sarnold> | pretty cool |
| 21:17 | <twb> | Whereas btrfs's nearest l2arc equivalent -- bcache -- decided it was going to roll its own filesystem with blcakjack and hookers |
| 21:17 | <twb> | sarnold: also I really hate XTS |
| 21:18 | <sarnold> | twb: me too but i can't articulate why :) |
| 21:18 | <twb> | sarnold: I can tell you exactly why |
| 21:18 | <sarnold> | :D |
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| 21:18 | <twb> | sarnold: it's the only used for FDE, so cryptanalysts haven't attacked it as thoroughly as authenc mode of operation |
| 21:19 | <twb> | Because ZFS does encryption *above* the reliability layer, it can use GCM, which is the Right Thing. |
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| 21:19 | <sarnold> | hooray for authenticated modes |
| 21:19 | <twb> | If one copy is corrupt, ZFS knows which one, so doesn't have to worry about saying "dear past self, please re-transmit the corrypt block to me in your future" |
| 21:19 | <twb> | Which is a causality violation, which is why XTS hack exists |
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| 21:58 | <r4fkramer> | Please, what is XTS ? |
| 21:58 | <sarnold> | r4fkramer: it's a mode of encryption that was designed for full disk encryption |
| 21:59 | <r4fkramer> | Oh, fine. Please sarnold, just for curiosity: which fs do you use primarily in Your Debian Installations ? |
| 21:59 | <sarnold> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_encryption_theory#XEX-based_tweaked-codebook_mode_with_ciphertext_stealing_(XTS) |
| 21:59 | <r4fkramer> | Thank You for link :) I'll read it. |
| 22:00 | <sarnold> | r4fkramer: all I've got is ubuntu; one laptop, zfs only; one laptop, ext4 only; one server, both ext4 and zfs; one rpi3b+ with ext4 |
| 22:01 | <r4fkramer> | Oh, fine !. You said rpi3b... Is that related to raspbian ? |
| 22:02 | <r4fkramer> | or raspberry pi |
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| 22:04 | <tjcarter> | sarnold: you're running disk encryption on the pi? |
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| 22:27 | <sarnold> | tjcarter: no, I'm using LUKS on my zfs laptop, that's it |
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| 22:32 | -!- | fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #debian-xfce #debian-rant #nouveau #debian #debian-offtopic #oftc |
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| 22:36 | -!- | chaky1 is "chaky" on #debian |
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| 22:39 | -!- | cowboypenguin is "Cowboy Penguin" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian |
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| 22:39 | -!- | jim is "jim" on #debian #xonsh #debian-next |
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| 22:42 | <twb> | even oldstable has access to zfs native encryption now :-) |
| 22:42 | <twb> | I'm using it on my laptop |
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| 23:00 | -!- | CeBe_ is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian #packaging |
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| 23:02 | -!- | Despatche is "Wealth and glory to the winner" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #linux |
| 23:05 | <tjcarter> | I'm still using ext4 because I have my LVM setup here. Migrating 30+TB to a new filesystem and storage backing isn't something you do casually. |
| 23:06 | <tjcarter> | it would've moved to btrfs except btrfs doesn't have fsadm support to automate some LVM migration features. |
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| 23:11 | -!- | hyiltiz is "Flash Jones" on #freedombox #biz #virt #debian-next @#fishing #debian |
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| 23:19 | <jim> | hi, I have python2 and python3 installed, is there supposed to be a symlink called python? |
| 23:20 | <sarnold> | if you install one of the python-is-python* packages |
| 23:20 | <sarnold> | that lets you decide which set of scripts you'd like to break :) |
| 23:22 | <jim> | sarnold, ok, so I could install python-is-python3, and that wouldn't break any system dependencies on python2? |
| 23:22 | <jim> | (running bullseye I think) |
| 23:23 | <jim> | or actually, could I remove python2? |
| 23:24 | <jim> | yeah, running debian 11 |
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| 23:25 | -!- | crawler is "crawler" on #debian #linode |
| 23:27 | <somiaj> | python2 is depericated and bullseye has no dependencies on it |
| 23:28 | <somiaj> | python2 is only provided in bullseye because some people may want it, but in general most shouldn't have it uninstalled, it isn't supported upstream and won't get any security/bug fixes |
| 23:28 | <somiaj> | but no packages in bullseye depend on python2, it is there for third party stuff only |
| 23:28 | <jim> | ok, good, so I can get rid of it :) |
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| 23:29 | -!- | Klaus_D1eter_ is "Klaus" on #clair #xorg #debian |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Oct 07 00:00:09 2021 |