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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-06

---Logopened Wed Oct 06 00:00:08 2021
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00:07<Sqrt{not}>aloo_shu, I probably don't understand your archive question, but would http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/ help at all?
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00:11<danielssan>alex11: 5.10.46 is upstream
00:12<aloo_shu>Sqrt{not}: nah, it's not debian, see initial post. but apt is a debian creation, so I was hoping for some insights for influencing its behaviour, specifically, not trying InRelease before Release+Release.gpg
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00:17<Sqrt{not}>heh, OK. those other debian imitators need to imitate debian's archive now
00:18<aloo_shu>the repo in question, is archived and tar'ed up, meant to be downloaded & used with a server, but since archive.org was offering to view and access tar archive *contents*, I felt like I might be lucky, and able to use that archived repo as-is
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00:23<aloo_shu>well they do imitate the archive structure good enough, the obstacle most likely is the response the server is giving when the file it's being asked to extract from the tar archive, doesn't exist, it's a NOSPLIT, and that's freaking apt enough to not even try to get Release instead of Release, making assumptions why that NOSPLIT was received
00:23<aloo_shu>*Release instead of InRelease
00:25<aloo_shu>the project isn't imitating debian, btw, they're just using apt
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00:31<aloo_shu>I've looked at man apt-secure, apt-get, apt_config, apt.conf, sources.list; didn't see a way to make that error a warning, or to explicitly force use of Release over InRelease
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04:44<aidalgol>Sometimes when running «apt-get upgrade», I get a prompt asking whether to go ahead and restart services without asking again. How does unattended-upgrades handle this?
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05:42<mooff>aidalgol: in the temporary absence of more informed replies.. i *assume* it restarts the services that would be automatically marked in the interactive dialog
05:43<aidalgol>That would be my guess, too.
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05:45<mooff>better answer: you get that prompt when libraries have been updated that services depend on - not when the services have been updated themselves
05:46<mooff>in the latter case, the package for the service will usually restart it automatically during the upgrade
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05:47<mooff>in the former - i actually think that might be one scenario (in addition to kernel updates) that trigger the 'Automatic-Reboot' feature / setting
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05:47<mooff>but don't quote me on it. just a surmision from Google results
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08:02<Guest1986>Hi
08:02<format_c>hi
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08:04<bremner>!next
08:04<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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08:05<OlegH>Hey there!
08:05<OlegH>I've updated my server to bullseye a couple of days ago and since then I'm unable to get IPv4 networking to work properly again.
08:05<OlegH>IPv6 seems to work like charm.
08:06<OlegH>I can also connected to the hosted VMs on the server over IPv4 without problems.
08:06<OlegH>However, when I try to address the server directly, all packets seem to be dropped on the outgoing line.
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08:07<OlegH>If, for instance, I ping the server, I can see the ICMPv6 echo requests _and_ replies in tcpdump, but the pinging peer won't never receive the replies.
08:08<bremner>do you control the network between the pinger and the server?
08:08<OlegH>nope, it's WAN the server is hosted in a data center
08:09<OlegH>but since the problem first appeared after the update and worked for years without an issue, I assume that the problem is rather related to the server configuration
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08:27<bittin>All presentations from the Mini Debconf in Germany last weekend is uploaded as videos now: https://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2021/MiniDebConf-Regensburg/
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09:04<Finrod>I need help installing Sparky Linux
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09:05<Finrod>I'm trying to install 32bit SparkLinux 5.15 LxQt v 0.14.1 with a separate root, swap and home partition
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09:06<Finrod>and I keep getting booted into GRUB rescue every time I reboot after a successful installation
09:06<Finrod>I think the mistake I made was creating a separate boot partition
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09:11<jm_>how did you end up asking about sparky linux in #debian?
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09:14<bremner>they left, so I guess we'll never know
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09:59<stephen>is this where I can ask beginner questions?
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10:00<simonpatapon>yes
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10:00<simonpatapon>do you have any other question?
10:00<stephen>what is the difference between Ubuntu and debian?
10:01<dwerp>Can someone help me get a grub entry to boot windows 10 of a second hdd? https://wiki.debian.org/DualBoot/Windows says os-prober (which is installed) should find Windows 10 when I do update-grub but no windows entry is generated
10:01<danielssan>dwerp: did you make sure that both systems use the same boot method (legacy/bios or uefi)?
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10:02<dwerp>danielssan: oh, no. I don't know how to check that.
10:03<danielssan>hm on which side are you on right now? debian?
10:04<dwerp>debian
10:04<danielssan>is ls /sys/firmware/efi/vars/ populated?
10:05<dwerp>danielssan: no it's empty
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10:07<danielssan>dwerp: can you check if grub-efi-amd64-signed is installed?
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10:09<dwerp>danielssan: it's not installed
10:10<danielssan>great so please install it.
10:11<danielssan>dwerp: afterwards, just to make sure, please 'sudo grub-install --target=x86_64-efi' (to make sure that it's installed the uefi way)
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10:16<dwerp>the latter gives "grub-install: error: cannot find EFI directory."
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10:17<dwerp>danielssan: ^
10:18<danielssan>dwerp: what does 'sudo grub-install --target=i386-pc /dev/sdX' give you (sdX being your disk where linux is primarily installed)
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10:21<dwerp>it's /dev/sda drive with a sda1 and sda5 partition, do I specify /dev/sda?
10:21<danielssan>yes
10:22<dwerp>"Installation finished. No error reported."
10:22<danielssan>great, do you have a live usb around?
10:22<dwerp>No :-/
10:24<danielssan>dwerp: damn, as we need to boot a linux in uefi mode to install grub in uefi mode :/
10:24<danielssan>is there any way you can get one?
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10:24<dwerp>I have a 2 GB stick here if that's enough
10:24<danielssan>dwerp: plenty ;)
10:25<danielssan>the netinstall is enough (which is like 400megs?)
10:25<dwerp>Oh it already had the Debian 10 installer on it
10:25<dwerp>hah
10:25<danielssan>dwerp: great :)
10:25<danielssan>could you boot the rescue mode (under advanced)
10:26<danielssan>or are you in irc on that computer?
10:26<dwerp>yeah I am. I'll connect wih my phone
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10:27<danielssan>dwerp: great, so go through the wizards till he asks you if you want to chroot into the system (which yes you want)
10:27<danielssan>but make sure the installer is booted in uefi
10:27<danielssan>(which is displayed in the grub menu of the iso)
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10:28<danielssan>dwerp2: wb ;)
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10:28<dwerp2>Hey :)
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10:29<dwerp>if I would reboot my system now and try to boot into Debian, it wouldn't work right now?
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10:30<danielssan>dwerp: no it will work, as we made sure that grub is still installed in legacy mode
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10:32<dwerp>Kind of scary still :). I'll do it and get back through phone.
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10:32<dwerp>brb
10:32<danielssan>dwerp: sure :) but to be clear, everything is fixable ;)
10:32<dwerp>\o/
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10:36<dwerp2>danielssan: grub says bios mode
10:37<danielssan>dwerp2: huh, did you make sure to boot the correct way (normally there is a boot menu on f11 or f12 when booting)
10:37<danielssan>where you can select the correct one
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10:40<dwerp2>I'm on a thinpad t520. I pressed the think vantage button, then f12 to change temporary startup media, then the USB drive
10:41<hefe_>Does Debian have some kind of changelog between the minor versions e.g. between 10.9 and 10.10?
10:41-!-rojin [~rojin@119.235.52.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:41<danielssan>hefe_: basically in the announcement it tells you what was fixed etc
10:42<danielssan>dwerp2: hm, so there is no option for uefi?
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10:42<danielssan>dwerp2: did you make sure that uefi is enabled in the bios/uefi?
10:42<hefe_>Sqrt{not}: I'm still here with my EFI problem. I tested the last few images and found out that 10.9 is the last version that I can boot. Starting with 10.10 I'll get my beautiful error message :(
10:42<danielssan>hefe_: so for example https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20210619
10:43<hefe_>Thank you
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10:44<dwerp2>Fixed bios. In uefi boot now :)
10:44<danielssan>dwerp2: great :)
10:44<danielssan>dwerp2 but then how was windows installed oO
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10:46<dwerp2>danielssan: it went fine... If I have to reinstall windows that's ok
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10:47<danielssan>dwerp2: no i am just asking, if uefi was disabled (which means windows should have been installed in legacy mode) os-prober should have found windows :/
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10:48<dwerp2>I don't know danielssan...
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10:49<dwerp2>Do I need net access? Installer seems to have problems configuring network
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10:49<danielssan>dwerp2: probably not
10:50<twb>hefe_: if you install with network access, installing from 10.9 and installing from 10.10 should end up with 100% identical result on the installed system
10:50<twb>hefe_: is the problem booting the install media itself, or is the problem booting the installed system, after the install is done?
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10:52<dwerp2> danielssan it asked me to enter encryption pass so did so. Now wants to enter dev to use as root file system
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10:53<danielssan>dwerp2: great are you already in the installed system/
10:53<danielssan>?
10:53<hefe_>twb: The problem is booting the setup from the stick. I explained my problem here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/671787/debian-11-setup-fails-with-a-shim-init-error
10:53<dwerp2>/dev/mapper/sdb5_crypt I guess
10:53<danielssan>ahh yeah :)
10:54<hefe_>I tried various images and multiple ways to bring the image onto different sticks. The problem is a probably a shim update that shipped with 10.10. Disabling secure boot didn't help.
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10:54<twb>So the problem is happening inside grub?
10:54<dwerp2>Danielssan mount failed on that dev :-/
10:55<hefe_>I don't know. I don't see anything. No Fujitsu or Debian logo, no loading animation or something like that. I get a black screen displaying this message. After that the notebook turns itself off. So yes, it probably happens right at the beginning.
10:55<dwerp2>Danielssan I'm sorry I don't know more. Trying my best. Thanks for helping.
10:56<twb>hefe_: can you get to an EFI> prompt?
10:56<danielssan>dwerp2: so are you sure that's where debian is installed?
10:56<dwerp2>Danielssan no I don't remember the partition :-(
10:57<dwerp2>Ugh
10:57<hefe_>twb: I'll try. Give me a minute.
10:57<twb>I'm still confused as to whether the INSTALLER fails to boot, or the installer boots and installs, then the INSTALLED system fails to boot.
10:58<hefe_>The installer fails to boot.
10:58<twb>Ah thanks
10:58<danielssan>dwerp2: still sounds like that's where your install is. so can you repeat what the error is which the gui gives you?
10:58<twb>hefe_: do you have anything at all that can boot on that system?
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10:59<hefe_>Yes. Everything else. Windows 10, openSuse Leap, openSuse Tumbleweed, Ubuntu 21.04 and older versions. Everything works except for Debian.
10:59<twb>OK.
11:00<dwerp2>An error occurred while mounting the device you entered for your root file system (/dev/mapper/sdb5_crypt) on /target
11:00<twb>So we're just going to do an end-run around this and drop the installer straight into /boot/efi/EFI/debian-installer/
11:00<dwerp2>Check syslog for info
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11:00<Sqrt{not}>hefe_, I agree it is very likely that shim (and shim-helpers) update introduced in 10.10. Since you already started explaining your problem yesterday in #debian-efi, I think you should rejoin that channel (in addition to here) and mention that new info, and STAY in that channel as long as you can.
11:01<dwerp2>I'm pretty sure it's on sdb which also is listed but I entered the password to decrypt it
11:01<twb>Ah that sounds even better
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11:02<danielssan>dwerp2: the decrypt part worked i assume?
11:02<dwerp2>Yes
11:03<hefe_>Sqrt{not}: Yes, I'll do that.
11:03<hefe_>twb: I honestly don't know how I can enter an EFI shell.
11:03<twb>It's usually one of the boot options
11:03<jkc>hefe_: That should be a ... yeah.
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11:03<jkc>twb++
11:03<twb>hefe_: but you should talk to #debian-efi first. I'm not an expert at shim or grub.
11:04<danielssan>dwerp2: let me check something for a sec
11:04<dwerp2>Danielssan <3
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11:08<dwerp2>Danielssan um there is /dev/t520-vg/root ...
11:08<dwerp2>Should I try that?
11:09<danielssan>dwerp2: just try it, it won't hurt (but that's is what I was figuring out, how the default install looks like)
11:10<dwerp2>"mount separate /boot partition?"
11:10<dwerp2>Yes :)
11:10<danielssan>if you have one yes
11:10<dwerp2>Ok so what now
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11:11<danielssan>did you enter the chrooted system?
11:11<dwerp2>Execute shell?
11:11<danielssan>yes
11:11<dwerp2>Seems to work
11:11<Sqrt{not}>hefe_, that looks good in the other channel. try to stay there as long as you can. most of the folks who deal with EFI in debian are in Euro time zones
11:12<danielssan>great, if you are inside, do "grub-install --target=x86_64-efi" again
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11:13<hefe_>I'm also in CEST but yeah, I'll stay online at least the next six hours.
11:13<dwerp2>Cannot find efi directory
11:13<danielssan>dwerp2: great :)
11:13<danielssan>so I assume you have a efi partition?
11:14<dwerp2>I'm not sure
11:14<dwerp2>I know nothing about efi
11:15<danielssan>hm, you can see your parttions with "fdisk -l"
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11:16<danielssan>(which should default to sda)
11:16<danielssan>and if you want sdb just fdisk -l /dev/sdb
11:16<dwerp2>It's sdb
11:16<danielssan>I assume you only have 1 disk in that laptop?
11:17<dwerp2>Sdb has 3 partitions
11:17<dwerp2>No two
11:17<danielssan>huh? so where is you windows install then?
11:17<danielssan>or is that included?
11:18<dwerp2>On the second hdd
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11:18<dwerp2>Sda
11:18<danielssan>dwerp2: is that sdc?
11:18<danielssan>ahh
11:18<danielssan>so is there a partition on sda that's about 1gig in size?
11:18<dwerp2>243M
11:18<dwerp2>Type linux
11:19<dwerp2>At start
11:19<danielssan>anything dos type?
11:19<dwerp2>No
11:19<dwerp2>Linux, extended and linux
11:19<danielssan>now it's getting really interesting
11:20<dwerp2>Anyway I can boot still to my old system you think if we can't solve this?
11:20<danielssan>you should be perfectly fine with booting your old system
11:20<dwerp2>Awesome
11:21<danielssan>dwerp2: so, somehow windows got installed in legacy mode, but os-prober can't find windows :/
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11:21<dwerp2>I can try again?
11:21<danielssan>dwerp2: sure
11:22<dwerp2>Just run os-prober?
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11:22<danielssan>yes, but update-grub is imo better
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11:23<danielssan>which invokes os-prboer
11:23<dwerp2>Yay
11:23<dwerp2>It found it
11:24<dwerp2>New grub.cfg entry
11:24<danielssan>great :)
11:24<dwerp2>Just shutdown - r now?
11:24<danielssan>yup
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11:25<danielssan>dwerp2: because you are on legacy, just remember the recovery thing we did, as windows will sometimes overwrite grub. which means you can't boot into linux
11:25<danielssan>so keeping a recovery usb stick around is necessary :/
11:26<dwerp2>Danielssan ok. Well grub has an entry windows boot manager on /dev/sda1
11:27<dwerp2>But booting fails with
11:27<danielssan>what error comes up?
11:28<dwerp2>error no such device <an uuid>
11:28<dwerp2>Error no such partition
11:28<danielssan>dwerp2: that's windows or linux?
11:28<dwerp2>Windows hdd
11:28<danielssan>i meant, when you are trying to boot windows?
11:28<dwerp2>Yeah
11:29<dwerp2>Sda is, windows so it got that right at least
11:29<danielssan>i mean that's something you would need to repair probably with the windows installer cd :/ but that's almost out of my skill (had no windows for 20years or so)
11:30<dwerp2>Thanks for trying though. Maybe a reinstall of win when laptop is in efi mode can fix?
11:30<dwerp2>I can remove the Linux hdd during installation to prevent overwrite
11:31<twb>On modern hardware, I strongly recommend running either Windows or Linux as a VM, rather than dual-booting
11:32<danielssan>dwerp2: best would be go full uefi, linux and windows, as both can coexist (while with legacy it can't). when installing in uefi, just make sure that linux uses the same efi partition as windows
11:32<danielssan>twb: how come? with uefi, there is literally no reason not to dual boot (if you need)
11:32<danielssan>i can understand with mbr, as that was always a hassle
11:32<twb>danielssan: so you can run both at once
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11:33<danielssan>twb: it really depends on the use case. as not all of them can be used in a vm
11:33<twb>Fair
11:34<aloo_shu>you coul use the uuid's to check what the windows oot process is looking for. you also want to know if grub an't find the win bootmgr, or the win bootmgr can't find its windows
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11:34<dwerp2>Danielssan thanks for the help. Found another way that works. At boot I just click think Wantage button, choose temp boot media then windows boot loader and windows boots
11:35<dwerp2>So can do that when I want to boot win.
11:36<danielssan>dwerp2: yeah you can do that. :) but let's see how long that will last (i would be annoyed by it, and try to fix it asap) :)
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11:37<dwerp2>I really appreciate your time, and help danielssan
11:37<dwerp2>Thank you so much
11:37<dwerp2>Now I have to take a phone call
11:37<dwerp2><3
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13:19<parrot>hello
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13:22<karlpinc>twb: Using sane seems to cause a dialog asking for root priviliges because avahi-daemon is masked. Which is stupid because a masked service will never start. (Another bug report in the making....)
13:22<karlpinc>!tell parrot about ask
13:23<twb>karlpinc: you probably didn't mask the .socket
13:23<parrot>anyone can teach me stuff?
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13:23<twb>karlpinc: systemctl list-units '*avahi*'
13:23<bremner>dpkg: tell parrot about ask
13:23<karlpinc>parrot: Yes, but you have to ask a specific question. And no, this is not an education channel but a support channel. So if you need help on something specific just ask.
13:24<bremner>parrot: also, it's a channel for debian, not parrot, if that is what you are using
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13:24<parrot>karlpinc ok thanx
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13:25<karlpinc>twb: Why? (None, but that's good because I don't want avahi. Except possibly as a client-only. But I've got nothing I want to do with mdns at the moment.)
13:27<karlpinc>twb: You're quite right. I forgot to mask the socket.
13:28<twb>karlpinc: remember to disable --now before you mask it (or just reboot)
13:29<twb>you could probably just purge avahi-daemon entirely
13:29<karlpinc>twb: Ha! (can't disable a masked socket. :)
13:30<karlpinc>twb: Can't purge it as it seems to be required by various packages.
13:30<twb>"aptitude why avahi-daemon"
13:30<karlpinc>twb: Packages I don't want to remove.
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13:31<twb>I was curious as to which ones
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13:32<karlpinc>twb: ipp-usb and libnss-mdns. The latter I could remove. The former I want for "driverless printing". (At least in theory I want it.) Seemed easier to mask.
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13:34<karlpinc>twb: Although "aptitude why" shows only that cups recommends it. Trying to remove it with aptitude gives me choices showing ipp-usb and libnss-mdns as requiring it. Why "aptitude why" gives me different output I don't know.
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13:36<karlpinc>twb: FWIW, disabling the avahi-daemon socket does not prevent the dialog from popping up. (At the end of the day I don't care much. But I figured I'd report back here.)
13:37<twb>karlpinc: OK
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13:37<twb>karlpinc: I am surprised it's a hard dependency
13:37<twb>karlpinc: you might be able to get it downgraded to Recommends if you can demonstrate it working without avahi
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13:53<Sqrt{not}>karlpinc, I think the avahi stuff is used to discover the addresses of networked printers or scanners
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13:53<Sqrt{not}>karlpinc, for the "driverless" stuff
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14:02<Sqrt{not}>karlpinc, ahh, and ipp-usb should be for driverless via usb, i think. I don'
14:02<Sqrt{not}>don't know how much ipp-usb and avahi might need each other
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14:27<bittin>:p
14:28<sussudio>somiaj: pretty sure that was a spammer who was banned before.
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15:06<coc0nut>is the iwlwifi driver included in install media for debian 11 btw?
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15:08<sussudio>coc0nut: it's non-free.
15:08<coc0nut>aha
15:09<coc0nut>a friend is installing debian on a old surface pro. was thinking it has no ethernet card so it might be an issue
15:09<somiaj>well the driver is free, the firmware is not
15:09<somiaj>!firmware images
15:09<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>.
15:09<somiaj>you have basically three options, (1) use the unoffical firmware images, (2) provide the firmware on a seperate usb stick during the install, (3) install the firmware after you are done with the install (the installer doens't require internet)
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20:45<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, I have this doubt regarding ZFS in debian: https://paste.debian.net/1214554/
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20:51<sarnold>r4fkramer: the debian zfs root guide uses the dkms approach, it's probably pretty well tested https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html
20:51<sarnold>r4fkramer: I followed a very similar guide to install zfs root on ubuntu before that was a feature in the ubuntu installer, it went alright
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20:54<twb>sarnold: it still isn't, except for GUI ubuntu
20:55<twb>(last time I looked)
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20:56<twb>r4fkramer: I think your question is "can I have zfs.ko without compiling it myself (via zfs-dkms)?" The answer is "no".
20:56<twb>r4fkramer: write to your Oracle sales representative and ask them to fix the license they use for ZFS
20:57<sarnold>twb: yeah, it's not quite finished :(
20:57<twb>zsys looked nice in theiry but not fun to learn anytime soon
20:58<twb>one of their "60% finished" projects like netplan and mir and upstart
20:59<sarnold>you forgot click packaging and ubuntu touch and unity scopes and convergence
21:00<twb>landscape
21:03<r4fkramer>Fine, sarnold. I'd like an alternative for that. Anyway, I'll read it carefully and think about it. Thank You very much for attention and Great Support :)
21:05<twb>r4fkramer: Debian cannot legally give you an alternative. Complain to Oracle, who can fix it anytime they want.
21:05<r4fkramer>Fine twb, I understood it. Thank You for attention and Great Support.
21:07<r4fkramer>Please, twb, Was there a legal way around Canonical for zfs to be used natively in the Linux Kernel for Ubuntu? If this really happened, did I ever think that maybe this was possible in Debian ?
21:08<twb>r4fkramer: no. Canonical are breaking the law, and hoping Oracle will not sue them.
21:08<r4fkramer>Oh, bad english last sentence, sorry :(
21:09<twb>Canonical's lawyers might disagree. We can't know the "true" answer unless/until Oracle actually sues someone.
21:10<r4fkramer>I see, but in this case, does it apply to openZFS for Linux ? ZFS and openZFS differs a little in terms of development, or am I wrong ?
21:10<r4fkramer>zol
21:11<twb>r4fkramer: no. OpenZFS and ZOL are are derived (mostly) from Oracle-owned code, licensed under the CDDL. The CDDL was *specifically designed* to stop you doing what you want to do.
21:12<r4fkramer>Ok twb, thanks for information.
21:13<twb>It's true that Delphix et al own some of the code, so you'd also need to ask them for relicense permission
21:13<sarnold>plus whoever else has contributed since oracle dropped it
21:13<twb>Or, in theory, you could convince Linus et al to change the Linux kernel license from GPL2 to CDDL
21:14<r4fkramer>yes, really in theory, for I don't have this pretension (GPL2 => CDDL)
21:14<twb>Or you could try to create a Debian GNU/kSolaris kernel, but Solaris is proprietary since Oracle took over, and you'd still have the GPL-vs-CDDL issue
21:14<r4fkramer>Or Debian/Illumos Kernel.
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21:15<twb>I believe illumos is essentially a fork of opensolaris, from before oracle took over.
21:15<r4fkramer>I understood, but I really prefer continue using Linux Kernel
21:15<twb>so it's broadly stlil just ksol
21:15<r4fkramer>I see, twb
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21:16<twb>For me the tipping point was when OpenZFS 2.0 gave me the ability to do incremental encrypted backups to a host that doesn't have the decrypt keys
21:17<sarnold>pretty cool
21:17<twb>Whereas btrfs's nearest l2arc equivalent -- bcache -- decided it was going to roll its own filesystem with blcakjack and hookers
21:17<twb>sarnold: also I really hate XTS
21:18<sarnold>twb: me too but i can't articulate why :)
21:18<twb>sarnold: I can tell you exactly why
21:18<sarnold>:D
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21:18<twb>sarnold: it's the only used for FDE, so cryptanalysts haven't attacked it as thoroughly as authenc mode of operation
21:19<twb>Because ZFS does encryption *above* the reliability layer, it can use GCM, which is the Right Thing.
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21:19<sarnold>hooray for authenticated modes
21:19<twb>If one copy is corrupt, ZFS knows which one, so doesn't have to worry about saying "dear past self, please re-transmit the corrypt block to me in your future"
21:19<twb>Which is a causality violation, which is why XTS hack exists
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21:58<r4fkramer>Please, what is XTS ?
21:58<sarnold>r4fkramer: it's a mode of encryption that was designed for full disk encryption
21:59<r4fkramer>Oh, fine. Please sarnold, just for curiosity: which fs do you use primarily in Your Debian Installations ?
21:59<sarnold>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_encryption_theory#XEX-based_tweaked-codebook_mode_with_ciphertext_stealing_(XTS)
21:59<r4fkramer>Thank You for link :) I'll read it.
22:00<sarnold>r4fkramer: all I've got is ubuntu; one laptop, zfs only; one laptop, ext4 only; one server, both ext4 and zfs; one rpi3b+ with ext4
22:01<r4fkramer>Oh, fine !. You said rpi3b... Is that related to raspbian ?
22:02<r4fkramer>or raspberry pi
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22:04<tjcarter>sarnold: you're running disk encryption on the pi?
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22:27<sarnold>tjcarter: no, I'm using LUKS on my zfs laptop, that's it
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22:42<twb>even oldstable has access to zfs native encryption now :-)
22:42<twb>I'm using it on my laptop
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23:05<tjcarter>I'm still using ext4 because I have my LVM setup here. Migrating 30+TB to a new filesystem and storage backing isn't something you do casually.
23:06<tjcarter>it would've moved to btrfs except btrfs doesn't have fsadm support to automate some LVM migration features.
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23:19<jim>hi, I have python2 and python3 installed, is there supposed to be a symlink called python?
23:20<sarnold>if you install one of the python-is-python* packages
23:20<sarnold>that lets you decide which set of scripts you'd like to break :)
23:22<jim>sarnold, ok, so I could install python-is-python3, and that wouldn't break any system dependencies on python2?
23:22<jim>(running bullseye I think)
23:23<jim>or actually, could I remove python2?
23:24<jim>yeah, running debian 11
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23:27<somiaj>python2 is depericated and bullseye has no dependencies on it
23:28<somiaj>python2 is only provided in bullseye because some people may want it, but in general most shouldn't have it uninstalled, it isn't supported upstream and won't get any security/bug fixes
23:28<somiaj>but no packages in bullseye depend on python2, it is there for third party stuff only
23:28<jim>ok, good, so I can get rid of it :)
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 07 00:00:09 2021