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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-07

---Logopened Thu Oct 07 00:00:09 2021
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00:30<Commissar_____>uh, so apparently I am told that my root CA's are broken/outdated because .net/openssl isn't working with letsencrypt... i've updated/upgraded with apt today, and ran an update-ca-certificates, however the ca certificated didn't update anything. how fix?
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00:39<Commissar_____>actually, im on buster with a bad security repo listing. fixing
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01:03<Ou42>How to remove the beeps at boot menu on bootable usb debian bullseye?
01:03<Ou42>I found: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/598240/debian-10-live-usb-loud-beep-at-boot
01:03<Ou42>but don't know where to go from here
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01:05<twb>Ou42: unplug speaker
01:07<Ou42>twb: :wink: ty, yes, that would work, but this is the internal pc speaker AFAICT
01:08<Ou42>can I edit the boot while using the bootable usb drive?
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01:09<twb>did you find grub.cfg?
01:09<twb>it's probably under \EFI\
01:09*Ou42 looking
01:10<jm_>have you tried booting it with access=v1?
01:10<Ou42>jm_: no, what is that?
01:10<twb>Ou42: it tells Debian that you're deaf
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01:11<Commissar_____>ok, i've updated to bullseye, and i still can't establish SSL connections to anything with a letsencrypt cert
01:11<jm_>Ou42: https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/live-boot-doc/live-boot.7.en.html
01:11<Ou42>twb: I cannot find grub.cfg ... I'm an eternal noob. I can nav the cli, but I'm sorta new to this and it is a bootable usb drive if that changes where things are
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01:11<Commissar_____>anyhow... i think ill try and fix this tommorow, i gotta go to bed
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01:14<jm_>looking at standard live ISO grub.cfg is in /boot/grub, but you'd need to rebuild the ISO if you want to modify that
01:15<Ou42>jm_: that's what I suspected
01:15<twb>jm_: nope!
01:15<Ou42>fight! fight! fight!
01:15<twb>echo filesystem.squashfs errata.dir >live/filesystem.module
01:16<twb>mkdir -p live/errata.dir/boot
01:16<twb>rdsquashfs --cat boot/grub.cfg >live/errata.dir/boot/grub.cfg
01:16<twb>...except I just realized this is going to be read by stage1 grub
01:17<twb>So yeah, you're right, you need to at least convert the ISO9660 layer into a FAT32 EFI ESP
01:18<Ou42>grrr
01:18<Ou42>I did read that 1 beep means BIOS & 2 means UEFI
01:20<Ou42>so there's not chance to modifiy an ISO in place, eh?
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01:21<Ou42>"in place" < == > while active
01:21<twb>Ou42: ISO is read-only filesystem
01:21<jm_>well with a binary editor some minor things could be changed
01:21<Ou42>OK
01:22<twb>Ou42: you'll need to convert it to FAT32 or UDF, similar to a windows installer
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01:23<jm_>i'd firt try if that access option helps by adding it when booting
01:23<twb>mount debianxxx.iso /mnt/src; mkfs.udf /dev/disk/by-id/usb-yyy; mount /dev/disk/by-id/usb-yyy /mnt/dst; cp -a /mnt/src /mnt/dst; edit /mnt/dst/boot/grub.cfg; umount -a -t udf
01:23<Ou42>this is my first ever live usb... I've installed natively to usb drives in the past. Not many, but a few. I also like how BIOS allowed that native install to be portable. UEFI doesn't AFAICT.
01:23<twb>I agree with jm_
01:26<Ou42>so 'access=v1' while in the grub boot menu and save it and it'd persist?
01:26<jm_>there's also this in grub.cfg, play 960 440 1 0 4 440 1 - so maybe this is the source of your beeps, the access option won't help with that
01:27<jm_>no, you can't save it, a) ISO is read-only, b) grub is read-only even for file systems that are RW
01:28<jm_>wait, maybe that's not true, there are things as one time boot in grub
01:28<Ou42>so, it's not possible that way as the beeps happen before I see the menu. I can't beat it to the punch
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01:28<Ou42>what about the boot options you linked to? does grub on a bootable usb look for config files on the drive before doing anything?
01:29<jm_>it would help if you mentioned that first, as we could skip looking at live-usb boot options :)
01:29<Ou42>mentioned which?
01:29<jm_>I would use sed to remove that play command from grub.cfg
01:29<Ou42>I can't find grub.cfg
01:29<jm_>«as the beeps happen before I see the menu.»
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01:30<twb>Windows 11 VM in gnome-boxes or virt-manager requires "swtpm". Where is it?
01:30<twb>(ITP - #941199) http://bugs.debian.org/941199 swtpm
01:30<Ou42>it's a guess. they happen near the same time.
01:30<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/941199 in wnpp (open): «ITP: swtpm -- TPM Emulator for TPM 1.2 and 2.0»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2019-09-26; last modified: 2021-09-22.
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01:31<jm_>let me try the live iso with qemu and see if I can eliminate the beeps
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01:31<Ou42>the 2 dirs /etc/live/boot & /etc/live/config.conf.d are both empty
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01:48<jm_>bummer, I can't get any sound from debian-live and qemu
01:48<Ou42>jm_: thanks for trying.
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01:54<Ou42>calling it a night. until next time. nanu nau
01:54<Ou42>nanu*
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01:55<mjt>jm_: how do you run qemu? is it virt-manager?
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01:58<jm_>mjt: I tried kemu too, but I think it needs to emulate pc speaker, which I see no option for in KVM, with qemu it's «... -audiodev pa,id=pa1 -machine pcspk-audiodev=pa1 ...»
01:58<jm_>I tried KVM too*
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02:01<bentham> /join #tor
02:01<bentham>err
02:02<twb>kvm -device help | grep -Fi -e audio -e beep -e buzzer
02:02<twb>I don't see one either
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02:02<jm_>qemu did show up in pavucontrol with that command, but I just get no sounds when grub menu loads
02:03<jm_>(the other problem is that it fails to boot live system saying no init found, but assuming the issue was with grub beeps I don't care so much for that)
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02:06<jm_>it does boot with KVM though so it must be my command line causing that
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02:11<Nuni>Hello there
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02:13<mjt>jm_: "I tried kvm too" - what *is* kvm?
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02:15<mjt>what you need for it to emulate to get any sound is an audio card - -device intel-hda
02:15<mjt>debian will not use pc speaker
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02:16<bentham>mjt: I believe that kvm is Kernel-based Virtual Machine
02:16<mjt>bentham: is it what jm_ believes too? :)
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02:17<bentham>mjt: I wonder if I should just say yes.
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02:18<mjt>I've seen so many times people don't really understand what it what, - that's why I asked
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02:18<bentham>fair.
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02:32<jm_>mjt: what bentham said -- https://wiki.debian.org/KVM
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02:35<twb>mjt: /bin/kvm: symbolic link to qemu-system-x86_64
02:35<twb>With such an argv, qemu assumes something like -accel kvm or -m q35,accel=kvm
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02:37<jm_>nice, pavucontrol crashes everytime one quits it, #947376
02:37<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/947376 in libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 (open, confirmed): «Gtk::Main::quit() dumps core»; severity: important; opened: 2019-12-25; last modified: 2019-12-28.
02:38<twb>judd: oh I assumed that was just me
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02:39<twb>I thought "that can't possibly be normal, I must have broken it somehow. Maybe it only supports closing via a mouse event instead of a keyboard or something"
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02:39<jm_>let's try that
02:40<twb>jm_: I have no basis for that example, it's just the sort of thing that fucks me up routinely for being "not normal"
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02:41<jm_>yeah that works, but ctrl-[qw] is so much faster
02:41<twb>jm_: like when Firefox devs explaine to me that it is correct behaviour that copying with <menu key> <c> counts as a "mouse copy" even though I used the keyboard, and clicking on Edit > Copy counts as a "keyboard copy" even though I used the mouse
02:42<twb>And that therefore it made perfect sense that sometimes I couldn't paste into xterm because firefox chose to use the wrong X selecetion
02:42<twb>nowadays I know that if I want to copy out of firefox, I have to first psate into firefox's address bar, then copy from the address bar again
02:46<jm_>yeah that annoys me too, but I don't use it much, otherwise maybe something like autocutsel might help
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03:19<Linyx>Does Debian supports telephone lines? Thank you.
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03:20<jm_>Linyx: in which context?
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03:22<Linyx>I want use NETINST. How can I connect to internet with only phone lines
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03:24<jm_>don't think you can, you can only use pppoe during install, see https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apds05.en.html
03:25<twb>Linyx: what is on the other end of the telephone line?
03:25<themill>.o0( it's not AU's NBN, so it's probably not tin cans )
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04:16<user01>hi the supertuxkart channel said the controller issues i have since their 1.1 update are probably due to sdl2 and that i should play on windows or wine instead :P -- is there a way for me to determine conclusively if the issue is sdl2 or supertuxkart?
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04:17<user01>controller is a logitech f310
04:18<user01>i dont get why they recommend playing a game featuring free and open source characters on windows . . .
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04:22<jm_>user01: does it work with evtest?
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04:24<user01>jm_, let me check
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04:26<jm_>I checked with my f310 and it detects events
04:26<jm_>sorry F510
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04:28<user01>jm_, it detects event yes, my issue in the game is that there are random glitches whereby the character does not break when the break button is pushed, but keeps moving forward, or suddenly spins after a pause
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04:29<user01>does the value of -1 0 1 make a difference on evtest?
04:31<user01>in 1.1 i think they treated it like a keyboard device, then in 1.2 they added "better controller support" which broken the normal functionality
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04:32<user01>im thinking there is something getting crossed when pressing down arrow to break and holding acceleration button as one thing
04:32<user01>break should override acceleration
04:33<user01>or maybe a buffer error?
04:33<user01>because randomly at start it starts off veering to the left and accelerating not pressing anything
04:34<user01>which would be two buttons of left and X
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04:35<jm_>hmm tried it briefly and it seems to work OK for me, I don't really know how to determine if it's sdl2 related
04:35<user01>jm_ are there logs maybe that would help in this case?
04:38<jm_>user01: I tried running it with --log=0 but it does not log gamepad events
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04:43<user01>ok jm_ ok thanks . . . i just tried running it and does expected behavior 80% of the time but fails 20%
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04:43<user01>like break button wont respond and it just keeps moving forward
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05:10<Ou42>jm_: & twb: got it! I rebooted into Windows ( waits for noise to die down. continues ) and was able to navigate around the usb drive assuming it's the boot partition. Eventually I found the lines
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05:11<Ou42>... in grub.cfg ( missed them the first time thru the file ) but they contained what I had seen online
05:11<Ou42>... something like ( I don't have the file visibile right now and didn't think to take a picture of it. Doh! )
05:13<Ou42>... like this: https://superuser.com/questions/1604646/beep-on-on-boot
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05:16<jm_>Ou42: I have used sed to binary edit the iso (play command in grub.cfg that you found)
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05:20<Linyx>Hello, I want to connect to phone line (RJ-11 in specs) in installer. How can I do that?
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05:40<Linyx>Hello, I want to connect to phone line (RJ-11 in specs) in installer. How can I do that?
05:41<crab>hi am trying to install debian on raid 1 on dual nvme drives.
05:41<crab>it always goes fairly well until grub rears its ugly head.
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05:42<crab>i think the problem may be related to: "embedding is not possible, but this is required for raid and lvm install"
05:42<crab>i have nfi what this is trying to tell me,
05:42<crab>but i am beginning to suspect that the installer needed to make a gpt partition table and did not
05:43<crab>does that seem reasonable?
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05:45<jm_>embedding means that grub wants to put some data in unused area on disk
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05:46<crab>meh
05:46<crab>if i cant have boot on raid
05:46<crab>maybe there is no point even using raid
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05:47<crab>or maybe ill just have an uraided boot
05:47<crab>and raid the rest of this
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05:47<crab>ofc. i wont be able to boot if a drive fails.
05:47<crab>but the stuff would at least be there.
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05:49<jm_>this suggests it's possible with EFI https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/644108/raid-1-of-boot-efi-partition-on-debian
05:49<crab>lol
05:49<crab>yeah
05:49<crab>screw uefi
05:49<crab>im just not gonna bother.
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05:58<linyixuan>Are there a way to use RJ-11 telephone in NETINST?
06:01<bentham>I am trying to use xdg-mime default to set my application handler, and it exits with code 0 (success), but it doesn't change anything! What am I doing wrong?
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06:04<bentham>oh, never mind. I had a bad pathname :/
06:07<fernie>or you can have efi partition on both drives and sync them manually
06:07<l4mRh4X0r>linyixuan: Does https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/apds05.en.html help?
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06:18<l4mRh4X0r>crab: Sounds like you launched the installer in BIOS mode, rather than UEFI mode
06:18<crab>yeah i spent ages trying to get it to work with uefi yesterday
06:18<crab>and failed miserably
06:19<crab>today i put it in to legacy mode,
06:19<crab>disabled secure boot
06:19<crab>made a boot partition on one drive
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06:19<crab>the install completed fine... grub even worked...
06:19<netcrash>Hello, I'm still trying to detect the disks on a 9240 8i lsi raid card and I get this error: https://paste.debian.net/1214582/
06:19<crab>and lol
06:19<crab>it still fails to boot...
06:19<crab>x86 is a terrible architecture
06:19<crab>i wish it would die
06:19*l4mRh4X0r shrugs
06:20<crab>sadly arm looks to be shaping up to be even worse. :)
06:20<l4mRh4X0r>If you can reinstall, I'd suggest to disable legacy mode (but keep secure boot disabled) and try again
06:20<l4mRh4X0r>Thing with EFI is that you need to be booted in EFI mode to be able to use it
06:20<crab>i will do.
06:20<crab>problem is im very uefi challenged.
06:20<crab>:)
06:20<l4mRh4X0r>Heh :)
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06:21<crab>ok...
06:21<crab>one quick question
06:21<crab>i seem to have nothing useful on this cd.
06:21<crab>e.g. no parted
06:21<crab>no fdisk
06:21<crab>is that because im using the netboot thing?
06:22<crab>it must be.
06:22<crab>maybe if i use the dvd iso i can fight my way out of this mess with some actual tooling.
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06:22<l4mRh4X0r>I'm not sure what the debian installer uses, but I believe it's using its own thing
06:23<l4mRh4X0r>You'll get to a dialog asking how you want to partition your devices though, during the install
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06:24<crab>the thing is this crap about "cannot embed"
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06:25<crab>i cannot find great docs but it looks like i just need to use gparted and make a guid partition table and im good to go...
06:25<crab>but there is no gparted or anything like that on the iso afaict
06:25<l4mRh4X0r>The installer can do that for you really
06:26<crab>i dont think it can
06:26<l4mRh4X0r>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s03.en.html#di-partition
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06:26<crab>or it would be able to install grub.
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06:27<l4mRh4X0r>Grub will only show messages about embedding in bios mode, any only when installed to a partition instead of the disk IIRC
06:27<crab>grub doesnt actually show me anything in the installer
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06:27<crab>it just goes red and says "lol i cant install grub"
06:27<crab>i found the stuff about embedding in the log
06:27<crab>im not even 100% sure that is the cause
06:27<crab>its just my best guess atm
06:28<crab>the bit i dont get,
06:28<crab>is why when i didnt bother using raid
06:28<crab>i just made a 1GB ext4 for boot at the start of one drie
06:28<crab>but when i told it to install grub on that drive it works fine.
06:28<crab>no going red
06:28<crab>no nothing
06:28<crab>reboot "lol you dont have an os!"
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06:30<fernie>you could use finnix or archiso to boot and nuke the drive with all the tools, check /sys/firmware/efi/efivars if you actually boot in efimode..
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06:34<Marx82>Hi there!. Does anyoneuse openbox here? I recently upgraded to debian11 and sometimes I see a small square on the top left of my screen which I cannot close.
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06:35<crab>ok
06:35<crab>so this machines firmware has started the installer in uefi mode...
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06:36<crab>bah
06:36<crab>it refuses to allow me to delete the pre-existing raid devices.
06:37<crab>this machine is cursed.
06:37<crab>honestly guys, this is not the first time ive tried this.
06:37<crab>it usually works. :|
06:37<netcrash>Marx82: I use it , no issues @home , see your .config/openbox/autostart what is booting and maybe causing the issue
06:37<crab>lol
06:37<crab>it wont let me delete the md
06:37<crab>but i can tear the partitions out from under it
06:38<crab>like a boss
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06:43<Marx82>netcrash: I will check, thanks. My system is very minimal though so something must have changd during the upgrade. Here is a picture of the "issue". https://ibb.co/B6bvk7M
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06:45<l4mRh4X0r>Marx82: you could try using tools like xprop or xwininfo to try to find out what's drawing the window
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06:47<Marx82>l4mRh4X0r: thanks
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06:57<jm_>Marx82: I use openbox
06:58<at0m>l4mRh4X0r: using fluxbox, i sometimes get a tray icon lost in the corner like that
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08:17<kwilczynski>crab: If you want to get rid of the old RAID metadata (assuming you are talking about a software RAID and such), then you can use mdadm itself to so it and also wipefs (plus a good old dd would do it too).
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08:34<help_secureboot>hi i am trying to find the certificate file for subject: /CN=Debian Secure Boot Signer 2021 - linux
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08:35<help_secureboot>i cannot find this in debian-keyring, etc, or in the apt source packages for linux-image, etc, etc - i do find references to: https://www.debian.org/security/2021-GRUB-UEFI-SecureBoot/#key_updates
08:36<netcrash>Hello, I'm still trying to detect the disks on a 9240 8i lsi raid card and I get this error: https://paste.debian.net/1214582/ any idea on how to debug this?
08:37<ansgar>help_secureboot: https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/-/tree/master/debian/certs
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08:46<help_secureboot>ansgar: ok thanks! actually as i take a closer look i see the kernel sources (apt source linux-image-5.10.0-8-amd64) this key is actually there in linux-5.10.46/debian/certs/debian-uefi-certs.pem, but is not shown in output of openssl x509 -text ... because it's a certificate chain and i guess only the CA cert is being processed... OOPS
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09:57<help_secureboot>i am following https://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/controlling-sb.html - trying to configure my db efivars to contain keys "Debian Secure Boot Signer 2021 - linux" and "Debian Secure Boot CA" - WITHOUT having any microsoft keys or shim installed. I converted the .pem encoded files to der format using openssl, and also verified that the .pem certificates do sign my /boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-8-amd64, and verified
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09:59<jkc>help_secureboot: openssl x509 -text only processes the first cert it gets from stdin. The rest are ignored.
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10:00<jkc>help_secureboot: I'm going to ask this: is secure boot actually worth all of this trouble, in your particular context?
10:00<help_secureboot>ok. now i load the rest of the keys as proceeded - grub (signed by the Secure Boot CA) loads ok, but does not verify any kernels
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10:01<help_secureboot>jkc: lol: I fall under category of "Taking philosophical control" (see link above) and want to figure out how to get this to work now
10:02<help_secureboot>is it worth it - depends how much whiskey remains this evening :)
10:02<jkc>So you're not actually solving ANY problem. You're just doing it for the sake of doing it.
10:03<help_secureboot>it's unclear that the secureboot implementation solves any problem given that initrd can be whatever
10:03<help_secureboot>but ok, i want to understand where it is breaking now, perhaps it's a bug, or I am doing something stupid
10:03<jkc>It's not unclear at all. It absolutely solves a problem, assuming you consider that problem to be an actual risk.
10:04<jkc>And if you think the initrd can be whatever, try enabling secure boot on a system running the nvidia drivers. ;)
10:05<help_secureboot>the threat model is somewhat outside the scope of 'why does grub not think the kernel is signed - what key is it expecting, from where, to have signed the kernel?
10:05<ansgar>jkc: Secure Boot with DKMS drivers is surprisingly easy these days.
10:06<help_secureboot>i am a bit confused how initrd is verified given i cant see a signature over it
10:06<jkc>ansgar: Oh, never said it wasn't! Just that it DOES have an effect.
10:06<help_secureboot>modules that are loaded seem to need signatures
10:06<help_secureboot>but i guess secureboot against some kind of boot medium replacement/evil maid attack isn't going to protect against a modified initrd
10:07<ansgar>help_secureboot: The initrd isn't verified (one can do so, but Debian does not). It's not that useful given it then runs unverified stuff from the root partition anyway (which can also be changed, but isn't in Debian).
10:07<help_secureboot>(is that wrong?)
10:07<help_secureboot>root parittion is protected by LUKS so at least the attacker needs to compromise the key in order to modify rootfs
10:08<help_secureboot>and then yes, malware on rootfs can do whatever
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10:22<mooff>i'm trying to sort a CI issue where something will no longer build due to dependencies pulling in systemd
10:24<mooff>given a list of 30 packages (installed with --no-install-recommends), what's the easiest way to see which creates the dependency on systemd?
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10:46<imMute>mooff: apt-cache rdepends systemd ?
10:47<mooff>imMute: none of the 30 packages are listed in the output of 'apt rdepends systemd'
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10:47<imMute>then you gotta look at the dependencies of those 30 packages and trace them towards systemd. I'm not aware of a automatic way to do this.
10:48<mooff>i'm hoping someone does
10:48<ansgar>mooff: Binary search.
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10:49<imMute>ansgar: apt dependencies are not an ordered list. binary searching will not help.
10:50<bremner>binary search works for sets too
10:50<ansgar>imMute: It works: install first half, then second half of the 30 packages. Then continue with the interval that pulled the package of interest in.
10:50<mjt>isn't it possible to enable apt debugging?
10:50<imMute>ansgar: ah, that kind of search. yeah that would work.
10:50<mjt>I remember using something like aptitude why (aptitude not apt)
10:50<mjt>but memory is failing on me here
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10:53<mooff>debtree also seems promising
10:54<mooff>the man page suggests it only accepts one package on the command line, but it supports reading Depends: and Build-Depends from a package, and tree-ing those
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10:55<mooff>is there an easy way to make a stub .deb that i can feed to debtree? :-)
10:57<aloo_shu>as long as it doesn't have to be a stub, dpkg-repack? or anything lingering in apt's download cache
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11:02<imMute>mjt: "aptitutde why $pkg" will show you why $pkg is currently installed. it doesn't work (AFAIK) for general queries about packages not installed
11:02<imMute>mooff: alternatives might help with that?
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11:04<mooff>i wouldn't care that it's pulling in systemd, but that it breaks the build (and even apt) in the containers
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11:04<mooff>apt seems to function, but errors
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12:12-!-log2 is "snake" on #sxmo-offtopic #postmarketos #tor #oftc #debian
12:14<realtime-neil>complete the following analogy... ubuntu : launchpad :: debian : ??
12:15<realtime-neil>tldr; I'm looking for a place to build and host my own packages.
12:16<sney>doesn't exist
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12:17-!-Doraemon is "Doraemon" on #virt #alpine-linux #wayland #C #mm #linux #nouveau #kvm #debian
12:17<sney>if you are packaging software that might be appealing to a wider audience, then join #debian-mentors and discuss getting it included in debian. otherwise, there's an opensuse package build service that a lot of 3rd parties use
12:17<realtime-neil>shucks
12:17<imMute>I think some people use launchpad even for Debian.
12:17<bremner>you can build your own if you have an appropriate web host
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12:17<sney>right, or that
12:17<bremner>e.g. using "mini-dak"
12:17<sney>depends on how much work you want to do
12:17-!-cmuellner__ [~cmuellner@62-178-148-172.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #debian
12:17-!-cmuellner__ is "realname" on #debian #virt
12:18<realtime-neil>meh. I think I'll try jamming my stuff into launchpad.
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12:57-!-abivado is "xoxo" on #debian
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12:58-!-qwer is "real name" on #vectorlinux #Corsair #radeon #retroshare #linuxfriends #linux-storage #debian-hamchat #debian-gaming #debian-boinc #v4l #linuxtv #debian
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13:09-!-znalo is "Ambrose Andrews" on #freedombox #debian
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13:31-!-Kuririnmagic is "Kuririnmagic" on #infosec #debian-devel-changes ##brazil #tor-south #redditprivacy #ck #oftc #debian
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13:53-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
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14:01-!-demo is "realname" on #debian
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14:01-!-witchmaster_ is "Witchmaster" on @#debian-user #mailcow #nextcloud #debian #ccc
14:02<demo>hey
14:02<demo>delta 1 do you read me
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14:03-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #debian #llvm #openttd
14:06<bremner>!ask
14:07<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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14:11<demo>iam am running mx distro but my browser keeps freezing after awhile till i restart the computer...i use the inbuilt firefox browser
14:12<ansgar>!mx
14:12<dpkg>i guess mx is the Mail eXchanger resource record in DNS -- it tells an <MTA> where to deliver mail for a given domain. Merry Xmas, or Mexico. Si está buscando el canal de soporte para debian relativo a México, diríjase a #debian-mx
14:12<ansgar>!mx linux
14:12<dpkg>MX Linux is a popular distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: https://forum.mxlinux.org/. It is related to <antix>. If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian
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14:40<wbx>hi there, i reported a bug via reportbug on wednesday, but it still does not appear on the website. is debian bugtracker moderated by human beings?
14:41<kop>wbx: No. You should have gotten a reply from the bts via email when you submitted your bug. Did you? (Anything in your outgoing mail queue? `mailq` tells you.)
14:42<kop>wbx: The reply has the bug number.
14:42<kop>wbx: You could look at /var/log/mail.log to see if your mail got sent.
14:42<wbx>kop: the mail was sent successfully, it was greylisted for a while. i got a mail but without a bugnumber, just my report.
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14:43<kop>wbx: My thought is that the bug tracking system is backlogged. (Although I've never seen it more than a few hours behind.)
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14:46<kop>wbx: The message with your bug report in it comes directly from your system. So you'd want to look at the mail logs to confirm that the bts got the message.
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14:48<wbx>https://paste.debian.net/1214646/
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14:48<wbx>yes, i sent it via my root server with a local MTA running.
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14:49<kop>wbx: Looks like it got delivered to me.
14:51<kop>wbx: I'd expect the bug report to show up. Maybe something is broken. I don't know how to tell. (Except that your report didn't appear. :)
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14:55<wbx>kop: any admins available here with root access to the debian bugtracker?
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15:06<bremner>(for that)
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15:07<bremner>Do you have a copy of the mail? it won't be possible to debug much without at least the message-id
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15:26<therestartprinc>Where do i go to potentailly offer my services to debian (for free)?
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15:29<therestartprinc>#games
15:31<therestartprinc>It looks as though the idea was started some time ago to add games to the OS, What if I wanted to develope a game for Debian to help spread the word of the O
15:31<therestartprinc>OS
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15:32<therestartprinc>I think what you guys are doing is very amazing, Why is today the first day i have even heard of debian? I know gimp
15:33<sney>!hcih
15:33<dpkg>Want to help out with Debian and become more involved in the Debian project? The tools wnpp-alert, rc-alert (both from the devscripts package) and how-can-i-help can provide inspiration on buggy or unmaintained packages that you have installed on your system. Ask me about <wnpp>, <rc-alert>, <devscripts>, <new maintainer guide>. https://debian.org/intro/help
15:34<therestartprinc>are you talking to me or is that an automated respinse/.
15:35<therestartprinc>response*
15:35<therestartprinc>?
15:37<therestartprinc>i dont think the gaming world knows about debian, but with a well made popular pvp/pve openworld survival craft game would get your name out there more, and i have the mind for those types of games.
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15:39<therestartprinc>jeez anyone interested?
15:40<@Ganneff>if you want to write a game, feel free to.
15:40<@Ganneff>if you want to write it special for debian, even better.
15:40<@Ganneff>if you want debian to pay or hire you - wont happen.
15:40<therestartprinc>ok, so you want me to just do all the work and hand in a game just like that without anyone?
15:41<therestartprinc>i dont want pay
15:41<@Ganneff>it doesnt sound like you know the base of open source and debian.
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15:41<@Ganneff>yeah, people just do things for fun and because they want it
15:42<therestartprinc>yeah because i am disabled and need assistance to help with simple things, i can learn and undertand anything but i need minor assistance
15:42<therestartprinc>yeah i do, i would love to do it
15:43<@Ganneff>what assistance?
15:44<therestartprinc>I have some pretty severe dyslexia, so someone to help me undertand groups of words, tutorials, whatever is needed so my brain can take over and fill in the rest quickly
15:44<@Ganneff>right. thats nothing Debian is prepared, or able, to help with
15:46<therestartprinc>really that is nothing, it is not like i am asking anyone to code or render or make meshes from scratch or do the first hotfix in less than a day. so why am i getting such negativity
15:46<@Ganneff>im not negative.
15:46<therestartprinc>ok my bad
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15:47<@Ganneff>but this is a volunteer project. we do what we like. which is making a distro. thats something way different from what you say you need.
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15:48<therestartprinc>i spent the whole day trying to understand the website, it just seemed like i could offer something that noone else was, something that would help debian achive its desired notoriety
15:49<therestartprinc>and in return i would gain knowledge
15:49<@Ganneff>oh, you can, and it would be nice if you do something like it. But what you say you need is nothing we can deliver on. and noone else - there are a ton of games available.
15:51<jhujhiti>https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq
15:51<therestartprinc>yeah but i know games and game devs and most are not going to want to be associated with debian at least not the AAA titles and the hungry devs
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15:53<therestartprinc>once i undertand the mechanics of something (translating words to actions i can master anything quickly
15:54<therestartprinc>if i was lying then all sombody would have wasted was a few days,and dump me
15:55<bremner>therestartprinc: Debian doesn't make much software. We mostly integrate software from independent projects
15:55<@Ganneff>right. you can stop now. you wont find here what you are looking for.
15:55<bremner>so, making new games isn't really our thing
15:55-!-alex599 [~quassel@185.102.219.38.adsl.inet-telecom.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:55<azeem_>we're happy to integrate your game once it is finished (and open-source licensed)
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15:56<therestartprinc>Yeah i get that and i dont want you to turn into a game Dev i just want to help you reach your goal in exchange for some knowledge that most of you probably already have
15:57<azeem_>this is an end user support channel
15:57<sarnold>therestartprinc: if you're looking to get started programming games .. I enjoyed this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OK8_tHeCIA ; it might give you some ideas on how to get started
15:58<therestartprinc>videos never explain things properly and you cant ask a video questions when something does not match up
15:58<@Ganneff>right. once more: stop it here please. thanks
15:59<therestartprinc>?
15:59<azeem_>therestartprinc: as I mentioned, this is an end-user support channel, you're not asking support questions
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15:59<azeem_>you are welcome to stay around, but please keep it on-topic
16:00<Guest1247>therestartprinc… you might want to read this: https://www.debian.org/intro/about
16:00<azeem_>otherwise, we would have to ask you to keep quiet or leave
16:00<therestartprinc>there is nowhere eles to go that offers communication except the forum but it is not working for me for some reason
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16:01<azeem>sorry
16:01<therestartprinc>why is everyone so cruel and uncaring I dont understand it and never have
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16:03<@Ganneff>why dont you understand that we do not do development of random software?
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16:05<therestartprinc>do you not understand the point of all the wores i have said i am trying to show you somethign that is an option to increase the ultimate goal and for basically nothing and i just have the door slamnmed in my face., sorry for tryin to help
16:05<therestartprinc>words*
16:05<azeem>21:55 < azeem_> we're happy to integrate your game once it is finished (and open-source licensed)
16:05-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*oftc-webi@*.res6.spectrum.com] by Ganneff
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16:10<Guest1247>is support for nvidia cards fully featured and performant like in other OS's if using the non-free drivers? or are there limitations?
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16:12<kop>Guest1247: The limitations are if newer hardware is introduced it won't be reflected in the debian stable code base, which does not change. (much)
16:13<kop>Guest1247: Because it takes time to release, debian stable code is not the newest code available even on the day of release.
16:13<Guest1247>is that with the open source (?nouveau) driver or?
16:14<kop>Guest1247: But I'm not familiar with everything nvidia, so there could be things I'm missing.
16:14<kop>Guest1247: IIRC the debian wiki has a page on nivida and says how to install it's proprietary drivers, for those who want to do that.
16:14<Guest1247>yep i'm looking through it
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16:15<kop>Guest1247: There's usually lots of help releated to such things here, but we make no guarentees of course.
16:15<Guest1247>my friend is offering to sell me their laptop with an nvdia card, i'd put debian on it naturally, but trying to understand the driver situation before making a decision
16:16<kop>Guest1247: Maybe if you knew the exact model (or the pciid) someone here would know more.
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16:17<Guest1247>it has a rtx 2080 in it
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16:38<kop>Guest1247: The one thing you have to worry about if you're wedded to the proprietary drivers is that eventually the manufacturer stops supporting their driver. After that you ether use an old OS or must migrate to the FOSS driver.
16:39<Guest1247>yikes
16:39<Guest1247>i cant use the driver on a newer OS?
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16:42<kop>Guest1247: Sooner or later the newer OS, for any distro, has a newer kernel. And the manufacturer does not supply a driver for that kernel because the hardware is "old".
16:42<sney>Guest1247: the 2080 series should be supported for a long time, easily the lifespan of a modern laptop.
16:42<sney>the concerns kop mentions are accurate, and worth considering any time you use nvidia hardware, but in practical terms it will probably be fine.
16:43<kop>Yes, you're talking to someone who's still running a intel 686 processor.
16:43<sney>you should also check to see if it's an "optimus" multiplexed design, where rendering is split between an intel igpu and the nvidia chip, as this can add some extra things to tinker with
16:43<sney>but even that is pretty well supported in bullseye and up.
16:44<Guest1247>the part i dont understnd is how a newer linux kernel breaks an existing kernel driver
16:45<Guest1247>unless the kernel-driver interface changes?? that isnt that often is it?
16:45<sney>the external nvidia driver needs to be compiled every time you install it.
16:45<Guest1247>that's crazy
16:45<sney>yes.
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16:45<kop>It is an artifact of being propietary.
16:45<sney>and nvidia is one of very few vendors that require this for their driver. almost everyone else just provides a firmware file that enables support in the mainline linux kernel driver.
16:46<sney>but they've been doing it this way for years, and I guess they probably have some engineers who would lose their jobs if they started doing it the smart way
16:50<Guest1247>back to the original plan: looking for a thinkpad lol
16:51<sney>lol
16:53<Guest1247>thought i could just load up the driver like iwlwifi :[
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16:58<kop>Planned obsolescence.
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17:11<mooff>Ganneff: i was just thinking today that you were a bot!
17:12<mooff>"that must be what they use in case OFTC services go down.."
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18:13<TheRealSoundWave>"flatpak remote-modify --collection-id=org.flathub.Stable flathub" wont work, gives me error "remote 'flathub' not found". But I cant add a remote repo as I'm using USB repos to install flatpaks on an offline PC
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18:14<TheRealSoundWave>Any solutions to create the flathub remote offline !?
18:16<TheRealSoundWave>I'm using the flatpak's create-usb to distribute flatpaks to offline machines
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18:28<Sqrt{not}>I don't know about flatpak, but there is this: https://flathub.org
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18:30<TheRealSoundWave>Sqrt{not}: Yep.
18:34<TheRealSoundWave>"flatpak remote-add flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo" wont work since the device is offline; gives error "error resolving 'flathub.org'...
18:35<Sqrt{not}>there is a #flatpak channel on irc.libera.chat
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18:39<TheRealSoundWave>Thank's Sqrt{not}, I'm trying over there also, but there is only one operator and I'm the only user :)
18:39<Sqrt{not}>when I looked, there were 70 users there
18:43<TheRealSoundWave>Ok, loged in on the wrong server :)
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19:01<OD>TheRealSoundWave: I just connected to freenode hoping to type /lusers see how it was doing (they blocked netsplit.de a while back)
19:01<OD>Can't connect?
19:02<OD>If you were on freenode with that dead channel, you type /lusers for me, paste me the result?
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19:09<TheRealSoundWave>OD: I dont understand what your saying :(
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19:14<asdflkj>how do you use youtube-dl on Debian? even the sid version is obsolete
19:14<asdflkj>so I curled the upstream, but its shebang fails (/usr/bin/env python). should I just make python a symlink to python3? (I thought update-alternatives would do that, but apparently it doesn't manage python)
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19:19<TheRealSoundWave>asdflkj: I'm using youtube-dl with Snap
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19:22<avu>asdflkj: for that 'python' issue, you can install python-is-python3
19:22<asdflkj>thanks
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19:43<mooff>how long ago did they block netsplit.de? lol
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20:13<Commissar_____>how do i get openssl 3.0.0 on debian?
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20:13<Commissar_____>im still stuck on 1.1.1 and it's broken for letsencrypt certs
20:13<dvs>,v openssl
20:13<judd>Package: openssl on amd64 -- stretch: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; buster: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u6; buster-proposed-updates: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u7; buster-security: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u7; bullseye: 1.1.1k-1; bullseye-proposed-updates: 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1; bullseye-security: 1.1.1k-1+deb11u1; bookworm: 1.1.1l-1; sid: 1.1.1l-1; experimental: 3.0.0-1
20:14-!-mbond [~mbond@99-35-18-230.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: mbond]
20:14<dvs>what happened to 2?
20:14<sarnold>they skipped it
20:14<dvs>iphone 9!
20:15<Commissar_____>i see. it's on experiemental
20:15<Commissar_____>ill amke a backup them install
20:16<Commissar_____>because my application is borked
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20:17<Commissar_____>i mean, it's only been announced that letsencrypt was gonna do this for 10 years
20:17<Commissar_____>lol
20:17<sarnold>chances are good something else is broken in your environment though
20:17<Commissar_____>nah
20:18<avu>Commissar_____: letsencrypt works just fine with the openssl in bullseye for me
20:18<Commissar_____>it's a known issue
20:18<OD> Commissar_____ gotta say I don't remember "come one and all enjoy your free certs that don't get self-signed warnings" then them doing the evil voice "we wont fuck you over in September 2021, trust us, hahaha"
20:18<Commissar_____>ah
20:19<coruja>what about presenting the actual problem description instead of a supposed solution? just asking
20:19<Commissar_____>https://github.com/Jackett/Jackett/issues/12341#issuecomment-937428645 for thos interested
20:19<OD>I guess it is "I trusted them, then they broke my heart"?
20:19<OD>Thinking about writing some songs about it
20:19<Commissar_____>uh basically dotnet won't validate anything with a letsencrypt cert
20:19<sarnold>AHA
20:19<sarnold>you should have said something about dotnet from the start ;)
20:19<sarnold>let me see if I can find that
20:19<Commissar_____>and i reinstalled dotnet
20:20<Commissar_____>and then broke jackett comepletely by autoremoving
20:20<Commissar_____>but fixed by reinstalling
20:21<sarnold>Commissar_____: https://ravendb.net/articles/postmortem-partial-ravendb-cloud-outage
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20:22<Commissar_____>ah, nice
20:24-!-David- [~none@51.148.182.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:25<dvs>so it was temporary
20:25<dvs>?
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20:28<Commissar_____>i can't find those pfx files
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20:31<sarnold>dvs: alas I'm not sure if it's temporary or not :( I just know that ~two weeks ago these guys ran into problems when they got new ca-certificates bundles that dropped that certificate, so folks who missed the gnutls or openssl package updates (or couldn't update due ot horrible static linking games etc) would keep working
20:33<Commissar_____>i rad a find on the root,a dn it just ran and didn't show anything
20:37<sarnold>Commissar_____: how about a directory named 'x509stores'? I don't know if that's specific to that ravendb or if it's general to dotnet tooling
20:38-!-CutMeOwnThroat [~iridos@2a02:8070:d19c:3300:41b9:9dd0:b46:a841] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:38<Commissar_____>nope
20:39-!-yoslin_ [~moxie@91-156-70-193.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
20:39<sarnold>:(
20:39<Commissar_____>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 Aug 12 17:37 dotnet -> ../share/dotnet/dotnet
20:40<Commissar_____>i think that' it
20:40<Commissar_____>i hope
20:40<Sqrt{not}>I wonder if your autoremoving and reinstalling affected those directories and files?
20:40<sarnold>Sqrt{not}: yeah, that's my hope too, but you've got to find the things first
20:41<Commissar_____>nah, that issue existed prior
20:42<Commissar_____>thios issue*
20:42<Commissar_____>it was present even before i upgraded from buster
20:44<Commissar_____>i found it
20:44<Commissar_____>it was in the user profile where it's supposed to be
20:44<Commissar_____>*facedesk*
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20:45<Commissar_____>ok, i think those pfx are unique to ravendb
20:46<Commissar_____>but i think the pfx is also posted for jackett
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20:46<Commissar_____>oh. it's empty
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20:53<Commissar_____>actually, https://serverfault.com/questions/1079462/why-does-debian-11-still-have-the-expired-dst-root-ca-x3-certificate indicates it's a debian CA list issue
20:54<Commissar_____>heh
20:55<Commissar_____>maybe?
20:55<Commissar_____>maybe not?? idk
20:55<sarnold>it's possible; try the dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates thing to remove it?
20:57<Commissar_____>that fixed it
20:57<Commissar_____>i literally just had to disable it in /etc/ca-certificates.conf
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20:57<sarnold>woot
20:58<twb>Wow that's a lot of underscores
20:58<Commissar_____>ehh
20:59<Commissar_____>the name is taken in nickserv,a nd its my usual handle, so i stufck a bunch of underscores on
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20:59<coruja>length matters ;)
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21:08<dvs>!nickometer Commissar_____
21:08<dpkg>'Commissar_____' is 99.9122% lame, dvs
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21:22<aloo_shu>!fish
21:22<dpkg>"Give a man a fish and you'll feed him a day. Teach him how to fish and he'll feed himself for the rest of his life." Instead of asking us to tell you exactly what to do, ask us which documentation to read, read them, then come back and ask specific questions which aren't covered.
21:23<aloo_shu>lol, not what I had hoped for
21:23<aloo_shu>is dpkg a distant rekative of supybot?
21:23<aloo_shu>*relative
21:25<sarnold>were you hoping to go fishing? or looking to get slapped with a trout?
21:29-!-psydroid is "org.matrix:psydroid" on #kernelnewbies #postmarketos-porting #intel-gfx #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos-lowlevel #virt #xfs #panfrost #asahi #open-source-java #llvmlinux #ovirt #postmarketos #haiku #C #kvm #java #c++ #rocm #hurd @#_oftc_#audacity-fork-voting #freebsd-clang #ext4 #mipslinux
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21:30<aloo_shu>the former
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21:34-!-allorder is "allorder" on #debian-quebec #debian
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21:35-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #debian-rant #nouveau #oftc #debian
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21:41-!-Redentor is "realname" on #linode #debian-next #debian-mx #debian
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21:46<jmcnaught>!infobot
21:46<dpkg>Infobot is an IRC bot that is geared towards remembering "factoids", and repeating them back to people on request. It supports many additional features, such as google lookups, dictionary, spell checker, debian package checks, and more. See http://infobot.sf.net/ for more.
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21:52<Sqrt{not}>%mircslap aloo_shu
21:52*dselect slaps sqrt{not} around a bit with a large trout
21:52<mooff>!nickometer dvs
21:52<dpkg>'dvs' is 0.000% lame, mooff
21:52<mooff>it's rigged, boss
21:53<Sqrt{not}>%troutsmite aloo_shu
21:53*dselect slaps aloo_shu around a bit with a large trout
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21:56-!-gerald is "Gerald" on #freedombox #debian #freedombox-dev
21:56<mooff>how many factoids does dpkg have, then?
21:57<sarnold>!how many factoids do you have
21:57*dpkg accidentally divides by zero
21:58<mooff>!what is the meaning of life
21:58<dpkg>I think you lost me on that one, mooff
21:58<aloo_shu>informative to the bone
22:02<sarnold>zounds it's inthe range of 115222
22:02<sarnold>baudrate or bot factoid? great game
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22:25-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #debian-rant #nouveau #oftc #debian
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23:27-!-gtristan is "Tristan van Berkom" on #debian-next #kernelnewbies #debian
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23:49-!-ax562 is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #linux #debian #debian-next
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23:49-!-fudgespinner is "Adrian "Abe" Mackenzie" on #debian-xfce #debian-rant #nouveau #debian #debian-offtopic #oftc
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23:53-!-Despatche is "Wealth and glory to the winner" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #linux
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 08 00:00:11 2021