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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-12

---Logopened Tue Oct 12 00:00:16 2021
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00:21<vetrivelmuruan>hello how can i install snap on debian 10 buster
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00:22<oslx>help
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00:24<vetrivelmuruan>how can i install snap on debian buster
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00:26<jm_>debian has snapd package if you really want that, see also https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap
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00:27<vetrivelmuruan>ok i installed it but it is not working
00:28<vetrivelmuruan>it is saying it not in path
00:29<jm_>what is not in path?
00:29<vetrivelmuruan>snap ins not in the path
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00:30<jm_>is the file /usr/bin/snap there?
00:32<vetrivelmuruan>no
00:32<jm_>that file is part of the snapd package in buster, https://packages.debian.org/buster/amd64/snapd/filelist
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00:33<vetrivelmuruan>i am in a 1686 pc
00:33<vetrivelmuruan>i686
00:33<jm_>doesn't matter, replace amd64 with i386 in that URL
00:34<vetrivelmuruan>thank you
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00:34<jm_>so is snapd package installed then? «dpkg -s snapd» to get its status
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02:10<wrsuser>hey... lets say you install 'aptitude' and notice it installs a bunch of other packages which are dependencies... like 'libclass-accessor-perl' for example
02:10<wrsuser>is there something similar to 'dpkg -l' which will show which packages were specifically installed for no reason other than someone wanted it... and which packages were only installed because they were needed to satisfy a dependency ?
02:11<wrsuser>I assume there might be some way to do this... as if I were to remove 'aptitude' (this is again, just an example) then apt/apt-get would let me know that auto-remove would remove anything not needed
02:14<wrsuser>I *thought* it was the first character of every line showed by 'dpkg -l' (i.e. the 'Desired' column) but it just shows 'i' for everything
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02:18<wrsuser>oooh... aptitude search '~i!~M'
02:18<wrsuser>that's useful
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02:19<wrsuser>kind of does the opposite of what I want - but it's a start
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02:48<umlaeute>wrsuser: if that is the opposite of what you want, why not negating the negation? aptitude search '~i~M'
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03:25<aduialthin[m]>A quick question. Is mouse locator depending on display manager? For instance, right now I run SLiM as display manager. In this case, will the setting in gnome such as mouse locator be available for me to use? I have this question because right now I try pressing left hand side `ctrl` key, but nothing happened (there is no highlight in... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/mlyhIXqbJYYytUEFtPjaNDRq)
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06:27<webber>does debian ship with dhclientnor dhcpd?
06:27<webber>is it ready to do ipv6 RS after install?
06:28<webber>that means Router Solicit
06:28<webber>dhcpcd is what ubuntu had
06:29<webber>maybe it could do it
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06:39<krauserii>On KDE Plasma does anyone know how to disable the bouncing icons when you click/open something?
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06:44<grove>I don't remember having had to do anything to make my machines get IP (v4) via dhcp (and I get that both at home and at the office) - They only thing I remember doing in relation to IPv6 is to tell network-manager (it probably just passes it on, but I don't remember where it goes) that it needs to prioritise private addresses, and I have working IPv6 at the office (I don't remember if it ...
06:44<grove>... actually works at home with my router making a tunnel, but it doesn't break any sites at least)
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06:48<webber>oh
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06:48<webber>you use network-manager
06:48<webber>yeah that's ubuntu
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06:49<webber>I am looking to invoke a RS
06:49<webber>feom cli
06:49<webber>or do it by hand
06:50<webber>but whatever it does it is not tcp
06:50<webber>maybe there could be a udp telnet broadvast by hand but somebody says RS is a ipv6 ivmp
06:51<webber>icmp
06:51<webber>it is like a magic knock knock packet
06:51<webber>all it does is tell the router your ipv6 addr
06:52<webber>and voila
06:52<webber>ipv6 routes
06:53<webber>bootp does udp btoadcast doeant it
06:53<webber>whatever it does that is what I need
06:53<webber>RS or RA
06:53<webber>Router Advertisement
06:54<webber>ok
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06:54<webber>time for a break this is getting rediculous
06:55<mosasaur>please try to combine your remarks under a single return
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06:56<webber>ok
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07:21<dff>hi all, i updated to bullseye on my desktop with an nvidia 3080 and lightdm will not run after boot
07:21<dff>lightdm[1743]: Could not enumerate user data directory /var/lib/lightdm/data: Error opening directory
07:22<dff>if i run startx i get this error Failed to initialize the NVIDIA kernel module
07:22<dff>i have purged nvidia-drivers with apt-get, but i think i used the auto installer file from nvidia to install the drivers
07:22<dff>(only way to get 3080 compatible drivers back then)
07:26<dff>cant find nvidia with lsmod, can i assume the kernal module is not loaded?
07:27<bremner>probably, unless it has a weird name
07:36<dff>hurray, i got it all working again
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07:55<ksk>dff: care to elaborate, what you did to fix it?
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07:58<dff>purged nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree and linux-headers-amd64
07:58<dff>reinstalled, and it worked
07:59<dff>sadly the cursor movement is rubbish in XFCE, so now i need to spend time on getting nvidia to place nice with compositors
07:59<dff>place=play
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08:33<metbsd>%radeon
08:33<dselect>Radeon is a brand of graphic processing units by AMD/ATI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). The radeon open source display driver is packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration. Also ask me about <radeon firmware>, <radeon audio>. https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo http://x.org/wiki/radeon #radeon on irc.oftc.net. For the proprietary driver, see <fglrx>.
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09:00<dff>i dont have a radeon gfx, now do i?
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09:31<twb>So you know how alsa was replaced by alsa<-pulseaudio[<-alsa]? And there's this new thing pipewire, which is basically "pulseaudio but also video streams"
09:32<twb>Well. Can I do alsa<-pipewire, and throw away pulseaudio completely?
09:32<twb>Or does pipewire use pa for its audio streams?
09:32<twb>My target platform in Debian 11 / Xfce, so no wayland, only X
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09:38<bremner>iiuc pipeware replaces pa. but icbw
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09:42<FLHerne>twb: Yes, pipewire-pulse pretends to be pipewire
09:43<FLHerne>er, pretends to be pulseaudio
09:43<twb>Ah OK so I should be able to do "apt install pipewire-pulse pulseaudio- alsa-utils-" and have working sound and video in chromium and vlc, via pipewire/
09:44<twb>(I've avoided shipping pulseaudio entirely until now, because I was blocking systemd --user and libpam-systemd, and now I'm trying to be "normal", so I figure I might as well aim for the newer thing and skip the old-new thing)
09:44<FLHerne>You probably can't have pipewire-pulse and pulseaudio installed at the same time; certainly the Arch packages are marked as conflicting
09:44<twb>Righto
09:44<twb>E: Unable to locate package pipewire-pulse
09:45<twb>It's not in stable at all.
09:45<FLHerne>Oh sorry this is #debian
09:45<FLHerne>I'm also in #pipewire and assumed this was that
09:46<twb>stable ships 0.3.19 where testing ships 0.3.38 -- doesn't sound that big a difference
09:46<FLHerne>twb: https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire#Using_as_a_substitute_for_PulseAudio.2FJACK.2FALSA
09:46<FLHerne>There's no Debian package for it (yet) but you can manually set it up by editing config/service files
09:46<twb>OK so the bottom line is "don't do it until Debian 12"
09:47<FLHerne>Well, you *can* do it and it'll probably work
09:47<twb>hrm
09:47<FLHerne>but yeah, if you're not explicitly trying to be on the bleeding edge I'd just wait until it's the default
09:48<FLHerne>I've been using it for a while, it works
09:48<FLHerne>except for a bug where if I remove every audio output device and then reconnect one, it still thinks there's no output until I restart pipewire
09:48<FLHerne>but that's a fairly niche problem :p
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10:08<twb>Wow. apt install pipewire --no-install-recommends ==> 10MB --- with pulseaudio, it's 120MB
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11:07*aloo_shu nod
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11:13<aloo_shu>but it's not objectively comparable, since that can depend on what is alrrady installed
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11:31<pi123>er, when did virtual terminals switch based on alt-left arrow or alt-right arrow?
11:31<pi123>i'm pretty sure in buster it doesn't do that
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11:37<grove>It does on this buster (but on the VT where I have X running, those keys are captured by the programs running there)
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11:39<grove>(Who would have thought I actually got something positive out of not having had the time to upgrade this machine to Bullseye yet)
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11:41<nurupo>>3.1.12. I am currently tracking testing (bullseye). What will happen when a release is made?
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11:41<nurupo>https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/choosing.en.html
11:41<nurupo>testing is bookworm now though
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11:44<Sqrt{not}>nurupo, if you are tracking "testing" you are bookworm now also
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11:44<Sqrt{not}>bullseye already released 2 versions
11:45<somiaj>not sure what your question is nurupo, but testing support is #debian-next, and if you use links (testing) vs codename (bullseye), you automatically change at the release, and we suggest you always use codenames for this reason
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11:47<pi123>is there some reason secure boot would prevent logging in with gdm or making X crash?
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11:47<pi123>grove: wild. now i'm kind of boffed in weechat since that's the shortcut to change channel
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11:47<jmcnaught>nurupo: if you want to report a correction for the FAQ https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/faqinfo.en.html#feedback
11:47<Habbie>pi123, ctrl-n, ctrl-p
11:48<pi123>dmesg said x couldn't change ioports because of kernel lockdown when i tried a minute ago
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11:48<pi123>Habbie: that just does page up page down for me
11:48<pi123>oh wait my mistake that's alt
11:48<pi123>yes that works thanks
11:49<Habbie>also, Esc followed by left or right arrow
11:49<Habbie>np
11:50<pi123>ah apparently it was temporary. i can login to gnome now. that was weird
11:51<Sqrt{not}>nurupo, the answer given in the faq you referenced is correct
11:51<pi123>last dumb question. what is kernel mode setting exactly?
11:51<pi123>i get a startup message in bullseye it can't do it for R600 radeon driver on this amd machine
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12:00<sussudio>pi123: do you mean that "ums" of whatever mode
12:01<pi123>idk just saw it everytime i start up
12:02<sussudio>pi123: you can just disregard that, i get it too on a laptop
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12:04<pi123>right. it's just the fact i couldn't login to gnome a minute ago worried me
12:04<pi123>i think it related to secure boot
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12:38<pi123>about the boot process by the way
12:38<pi123>i'm taking a little too long i feel to bring up the gdm login screen
12:39<pi123>dmesg reports several issues related to ioports and lockdowns not allowing things
12:39<pi123>could those be the source of the delay? i notice the delay happens after boot messages but before login
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12:40<sussudio>pi123: you could run debsums -c to see if any files are corrupted if you're having disk problems
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13:18<bbrodd>Can I sudo apt-get remove bsd-mailx? Don't need mail on my server
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13:18<sarnold>probably *something* will depend upon a simple mailx tool; if you get stuck with dependencies and you don't mind breaking wahtever it is that requires mailx and you can't uninstall *that* thing, look into the equivs package
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13:20<bremner>bbrodd: ooc, how do you plan to get error output from things like cron?
13:20<sarnold>you can just read the spool file, or use postfix or something to forward it
13:20<bremner>ok, postfix counts as having mail for me :)
13:21<bbrodd>Why isn't bsd-mailx listed here as non-critical package? https://wiki.debian.org/ReduceDebian#Remove_non-critical_packages
13:21<bremner>it's a wiki page, so, you'd kindof have to ask whover wrote it
13:22<bbrodd>Okay thanks
13:23<bremner>I mean, blindly removing openssh-server because that wiki page told you it's OK will probably lead to unhappiness
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13:23<bbrodd>Of course
13:24<bbrodd>Just trying to remove packages I don't need on my web server
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13:39<twb>bbrodd: apt-mark minimize-manual, then aptitude search '!~M~i'
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13:39<twb>Ah cool apt list '!~M~i' also works now
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13:43<somiaj>yea I like apt-patterns, no need to install aptitude for many of the more advanced searches
13:45<twb>still can't do ?source-package() yet
13:45<twb>but yeah I like it
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13:48<somiaj>Yea, it only has about 70-80% of the features, but enough for many things
13:48<somiaj>most advanced users will keep using aptitude, but for helping out, no need to have users install aptitude to do some more simple searches
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13:50<bremner>apt why when?
13:50<somiaj>also apt-rdepends should be moved into apt just like other apt-foo, even apt-file would be nice
13:50<somiaj>(:
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13:51<bbrodd>twb: Thank you
13:55<twb>bremner: +1
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14:00<realroot>I make the folders for a package /usr/bin /usrshare/doc etc. and now how do I use dm_make?
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14:01<sney>!nmg
14:01<dpkg>The packaging tutorial (https://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (https://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. https://www.debian.org/devel/
14:01<bremner>(also, #packaging)
14:02<Guest1247>what's the page for if you want to fix a bug?
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14:04<bremner>well, it depends what stage you are at. Do you have a patch for the source?
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14:05<Guest1247>not yet, but i dont see any pages on how to contribute code
14:07<bremner>the primary way is through the bug tracking system
14:07<bremner>!bts
14:07<dpkg>Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS
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14:07<bremner>some fraction of debian packages are also on a gitlab instance called salsa.debian.org, but you need to use the bts to be sure of reaching the maintainer even for those
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14:08<bremner>if you want to hack on a package and you know git, "dgit clone packagename" is a good way to start
14:08<Guest1247>yeah that's what i'm not seeing a wiki page on
14:09<Guest1247>closest i've found was this: https://wiki.debian.org/AdvancedBuildingTips
14:10<Guest1247>i.e. the workflow isn't obvious or accessible
14:12<sney>for an example of a bug with an attached patch, here's a simple one I did yesterday for hexchat #996172
14:13<sney>that HowtoUseBTS wiki page above is pretty comprehensive regarding the bug tracker itself, then to include a code fix it's just "attach file"
14:13<sney>most of us figured this out through experience. I suppose an end-to-end tutorial wouldn't be a bad idea.
14:14<realroot>"License : blank" how do I put the license?
14:14<realroot>where?
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14:17<sney>realroot: in debian/copyright - but this is explained in both the packaging tutorial and the NMG. please use the documentation for basic stuff, if you insist on asking questions that are easy to look up then people will stop responding
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14:17<twb>realroot: are you packaging your own debs?
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14:17<realroot>this is not packaged by Debian yet
14:18<twb>oh you're filing a RFP
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14:18<twb>If you are doing your own packaging, talk to #packaging (personal packages) or #debian-mentors (formal packages)
14:18<realroot>I already did, now I am making the package for me and debian mentors there is no source code, only a script doc icons
14:19<twb>realroot: every source file must be licensed. It's not just code.
14:19<realroot>GNU license
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14:22<realroot>I created the already the directories is that right?
14:22<realroot>like /usr/share/icons/hicolor/8x8/apps
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14:22<bremner>well, not directly created no.
14:23<sney>realroot: have you read the packaging tutorial?
14:23<realroot>just first page well can I make an extracting package then?
14:24<realroot>can I download a pdf somewhere?
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14:24<realroot>can I upload the "source" to the deb mentor?
14:24<realroot>site
14:25<sney>this link for the packaging tutorial goes straight to a pdf link in multiple languages. https://deb.li/QYyI
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14:25<sney>step 3 on this page shows how to upload the source to mentors. https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers/
14:25<sney>please read the fine instructions.
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14:26<sney>users can get away with ignoring manuals, sometimes. contributors should always, ALWAYS look at the relevant docs.
14:26<realroot>why don't you link that in the first place? if I have to read that
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14:27<realroot>can I just upload the source?
14:27<realroot>meanwhile I ll read the fine manual
14:27<sney>the dpkg bot linked the packaging tutorial and NMG at 12:01 when you first asked the question.
14:28<realroot>I was checking the first so can I skip it?
14:28<sney>to make debian packages, you have to learn the debian tools, and then you can upload the debian package source to mentors following the instructions.
14:28<sney>don't skip any instructions.
14:29<realroot>So how many manual do I have to read?
14:29<bremner>lots
14:29<sussudio>all. of. them.
14:29<sney>start with the packaging tutorial. then have the NMG and debian policy in tabs, and search them when you have a question
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14:32<realroot>debmake is the name of NMG?
14:32<jeremiah>As someone who has had to return again and again to the documentation, I agree with what the folks here are saying. The documents are detailed, up to date, and authoritative and will help tremendously getting your package in the archive.
14:33<realroot>debmake-doc.en.pdf
14:34<realroot>is there a guide to make a package quickly for personal use?
14:36<realroot>yes that's the name of NMG
14:44<bremner>there two versions. Some people like the debmake manual, other people like the original
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14:45<bremner>install package maint-guide-en (or maint-guide-es, or whatever)
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15:12<twb>realroot: the fastest way is to take an existing simple package and tweak it
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15:13<twb>here's one I prepared earlier: http://ix.io/3ByK
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15:14<realroot>thanks, no en version I think that without is en
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15:16<bremner>oh, sure enough. But they left anyway...
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15:36<vlt>Hello. Does anyone know a libvirt equivalent of xen-create-image to easily debootstrap virtual machines?
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15:38<ChmEarl>vlt man virt-install
15:39<ChmEarl>^ not exactly using debootstrap, but uses the kernel/ramdisk pair
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15:40<vlt>ChmEarl: I found that but it doesn't seem to download and configure the specified Debian version :-|
15:45<Tj>vlt: mkosi is another good candidate. Can create anything from bootable raw disk images to chroot-like root directories
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15:45<vlt>Tj: Thank you, I'll have a look at it :-)
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15:47<Tj>vlt: one note; use the latest version from the github repo not the version in debian; which is broken in various ways
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15:51<scorpion2185[m]>twb: is that package script?
15:52<twb>scorpion2185[m]: no that's a shitty hack. There's not really a concept of "package script"
15:53<twb>The debian/rules file is what controls the building
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15:57<huhuhu>I have a strange file in the ROOT directory. ''$'\001\220''F@@'$'\350\327\002''@8'$'\b''@'
15:57<sarnold>cute
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16:01<huhuhu>\001\220F@@\350\327\002@8\b@ -when I type this into DuckDuckGo, a website opens
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16:05<sarnold>oh wow
16:05<sarnold>https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/balena-etcher-not-working-all-of-a-sudden-4175692907/ via ddg
16:05<sarnold>impressive duckduckgo ;) google was useless on that
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16:10<twb>sarnold: is that just saying "appinfo doesn't support x86-64 proprietary blobs on arm64" ?
16:11<twb>c
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16:12<sarnold>twb: I have no idea, I just said a word of thanks to the universe that I never need to use anything beyond dd for writing images..
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16:18<somiaj>I switched to cp just because of nice defaults and easier syntax, though dd is just fine
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16:30<huhuhu>how to check what files were created on a specific day at a specific time?
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16:32<somiaj>that isn't as easy as one would think, now 'stat filename' tells you various things like a file's 'birth', but this isn't always accurate, since some programs don't honor it (instead of updating a file, they write a new one so its birth is changed to be last modified date)
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16:32<sarnold>there's no easy answer to that -- find can get you a lot of the way there. very few filesystems track "file creation" time -- instead they track file change time, file metadata change time, and probably file change time is close enough, but depending upon how your applications modify files, it might be very misleading
16:33<Sqrt{not}>huhuhu, what is your actual goal here?
16:33<somiaj>and yea, find can help search based off of access/modify time, to bad many programs decide to rewrite the file vs modify it causing its birth field to not be accurate (and as mentioned, depends on the file system)
16:34<huhuhu>thanks
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16:36<huhuhu>Sqrt{not}, found a strange file in the ROOT directory, trying to figure out where it came from. filename: ''$'\001\220''F@@'$'\350\327\002''@8'$'\b''@'
16:37<sarnold>huhuhu: did you use balena etcher?
16:39<huhuhu>I don't remember
16:39<Sqrt{not}>"ls -l" will at least tell you the time it was last modified
16:42<huhuhu>I found this: find . -type f -newermt 2021-05-08
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16:44<huhuhu>I want to check what I was doing that day... but nevermind, thanks
16:44<Sqrt{not}>%malicious etcher
16:44<dselect>it has been said that malicious etcher is There has been a potentially malicious imitation of Balena Etcher distributed by an unknown actor on a .eu domain. Balena do not own this. Only get Etcher from balena.io/etcher. Verification welcome if the official version works or not, to keep !etcher from getting stale. See <etcher>.
16:45<huhuhu>I see
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16:46<Sqrt{not}>try to remember if maybe you used that?
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16:47<somiaj>stat filename might tell you some additional info, but depends on what wrote it
16:47<huhuhu>maybe sometime i wanted to use for a raspberry pi but in general i don't use that pc for that
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17:19<cyberia>hello, I'm having trouble doing a cross-install using debootstrap, following this guide: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apds03.en.html
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17:20<cyberia>for some reason, running apt within the chroot fails with "Temporary failure resolving 'security.debian.org'" (and other domain names)
17:20<cyberia>I have configured /etc/resolv.conf, and running 'getent hosts google.com' returns the correct (IPv6) address
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17:22<sarnold>cyberia: curious, dnsviz reports ipv6 connectivity issues https://dnsviz.net/d/security.debian.org/dnssec/
17:23<cyberia>hmm interesting. ping6 can ping the addresses returned by getent
17:23<cyberia>and hitting it with curl from the host system is fine
17:24<sarnold>can you ping6 or dig -6 the debian nameservers?
17:24<twb>Cool kids use drill
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17:25<cyberia>sarnold: I'm not sure how to do that
17:25<cyberia>how does one look up the nameservers?
17:25<twb>cyberia: your getent hosts test is pretty strong evidence the problem isn't in nss
17:26<cyberia>yeah
17:26<twb>cyberia: just to be on the safe side, what's "dns" line in nsswitch.conf?
17:26<cyberia>hosts: files dns
17:26<cyberia>is I assume the one you mean?
17:27<cyberia>oh I'm also running cross-architecture -- the chroot is arm64 and the host is amd64
17:28<cyberia>not sure if that could be messing with NSS dynamic loading somehow?
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17:32<cyberia>is there any way I can disable ipv6 within the chroot just to rule out some shenanigans there?
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17:45<Celelibi>Isn't there a command to grep easily files formatted like debian packages?
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17:46<Celelibi>Iii thiink I've seen one long algo.
17:46<Celelibi>1go
17:46<cyberia>you could run 'file' on it and grep the output?
17:46<Celelibi>(Sorry typing on smartphone through vnc isn't easy.)
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17:48<Celelibi>By debian package I mean like the status file or the output of apt-cache show with many p1ckages.
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17:51<twb>cyberia: sorry. Yes, that's the one I meant. THat looks fine.
17:51<twb>cyberia: you can disable v6 entirely but you'll need to reboot to fix it properly
17:52<twb>sudo sysctl net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=0
17:52<twb>er =1
17:52<jkc>And I would be remiss if I didn't point out that disabling IPv6 is not the solution to literally ANY problem.
17:52<cyberia>I could probably just knock the v6 address off the interface in the host right?
17:52<twb>oh wait wait
17:52<twb>You're in *just* a chroot, not a separate network namespace?
17:52<cyberia>jkc: just trying to rule things out
17:52<cyberia>twb: yep
17:52<twb>That command will disable it for everyone
17:52<twb>not just the chroot
17:52<cyberia>yeah
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17:53<twb>cyberia: "formatted like" --- the magic word you want is "deb822" I think
17:53<twb>Celelibi: "formatted like" --- the magic word you want is "deb822" I think
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17:55<jkc>cyberia: There is an easier way to rule it out.
17:55<jkc>Specify the mirror using an IPv4 address instead of by name.
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17:55<cyberia>how will apt know what Host: header to pass
17:55<cyberia>I guess I could put the IPv4 in /etc/hosts actually
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17:56<jkc>I can promise you that specifying IPs works just fine in sources.list.
17:56<jkc>I tested it before telling you it was an option. :)
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17:58<cyberia>aha well putting the lines in /etc/hosts got it working
17:58<cyberia>weird
17:58<jkc>What mirror are you trying to use?
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17:59<cyberia>ftp.uk.debian.org and security.debian.org
17:59<jkc>Any reason not to use the geo mirror, deb.debian.org?
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18:00<cyberia>I didn't know about it
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18:05<twb>cyberia: http://ix.io/3Bb5
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18:06<cyberia>twb: you mean Celelibi
18:08<twb>That paste is actually in reference to ftp.uk.debian.org
18:08<twb>It goes in your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources
18:08<TobiX>jkc: Just refer people to https://howtodisableipv6.com/ in the future ;)
18:09<cyberia>oh sorry
18:09<jkc>TobiX: Thank youuuuuu
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18:10<jkc>twb: debian.sources isn't a file that apt reads.
18:10<jkc><something>.list
18:10<cyberia>I don't really understand what this file is or what you're telling me to do with it, sorry
18:11<cyberia>in any case I've got a working chroot now
18:11<TobiX>jkc: *.sources are for the new deb822 format
18:11<twb>jkc: uh... wrong
18:11<twb>jkc: .sources was added in Debian 9
18:11<TobiX>"new" ;)
18:12<twb>the old format is stupid and annoying
18:12<jkc>And still the default.
18:12<twb>especially if you want to do pinning &c
18:12<twb>I mean cert pinning, not apt_preferences pinning
18:13<jkc>I was gonna say...
18:13<jkc>Anyway, I find myself wondering why, if that format is so superior, why its not used for Debian itself.
18:13<jkc>Either way, learned something new.
18:14<twb>"deb [signed-by=/path/to/key.gpg] http://..." in old format
18:14<twb>bit hard to find that in man sources.list :/
18:16<twb>Otherwise the attack is you get the victim to install (say) virtualbox which puts a key in apt-keyring. Then you spoof the victim's DNS so deb.debian.org points to you, and your backdoored non-virtualbox repo is signed by your virtualbox key, so apt doesn't detect the attack.
18:17<jkc>"spoof the victim's DNS" as if that's a trivial matter.
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18:22<TobiX>signed-by is already kinda a red herring: You have to trust any repo you add to not distribute a backdoored coreutils anyways
18:23<twb>TobiX: do you mean s/coreutils/gpgv/?
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18:24<TobiX>It doesn't matter which package a compromised 3rd party repo replaces, honstly
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18:25<themill>there are ways to only accept certain packages from a repo
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18:27<twb>TobiX: I'm not sure I understand. You're saying that the virtualbox repo just puts a coreutils=999:1-1 version in its repo and hopes your pinning will choose that over the older version in deb.debian.org ?
18:27<TobiX>themill: And if many people would use those, I could still ship a backdoored maintainer script in an "expected" package...
18:27<twb>themill: and then wait for a privileged user to run a binary or config file that package provides?
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18:27<twb>gah, too many people with the same first letter
18:28<themill>TobiX: sure, you're giving people root when you add them to your sources.list.
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18:28<themill>Things like signed-by just reduce the attack surface.
18:29<twb>defense-in-depth
18:30<themill>To push a bad package through that, you now need to own the remote key as well as the remote site, not just wait for its domain to expire and then deliver packages with any old key.
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18:32<twb>ooh, nice attack idea
18:34<TobiX>I'm still wondering if people should advertise signed-by, if even the apt maintainer discourages its use: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2021/07/msg00004.html
18:36<TobiX>(I should have said "one of the apt maintainers")
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19:33<Gerowen>Has anybody noticed any issues with any of these three extensions for Gnome shell? top-icons-plus , places menu, gpaste ?
19:34<Gerowen>Every once and a great while my Gnome will randomly crash and send me back out to the login screen, and the last time or two it has happened it disabled all my extensions, so I "think" it has something to do with one of those extensions.
19:35<sarnold>buggy gnome extensions is a quick way to get a crash, yeah
19:35<sarnold>try disabling one at a time and see if that helps; if not, try enabling just one at a time and see if that's better
19:36<Gerowen>That's what I think I'll have to do. Problem is, it's not really predictable, I haven't noticed any particular pattern, and sometimes it'll go a couple days without happening.
19:36<sarnold>:(
19:36<Gerowen>If I had to guess, it's top-icons-plus.
19:36<sarnold>those are never fun to debug
19:36<Gerowen>I've seen a post or two here and there about it no longer being supported and people suggesting a different plugin that "kinda" does the same thing, but when I tried it I didn't like it because it doesn't fit into the panel nearly as well.
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19:41<twb>FLHerne: FWIW, pipewire-as-pulse is working after following that recipe in the wiki. http://ix.io/3BzM
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19:42<twb>FLHerne: for some reason both pulseaudio and pipewire set the default output channel to 0% muted, which alsa has special rules to not do
19:42<twb>See /usr/share/alsa/init/default
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19:54<Gerowen>So on the github page for top-icons-plus, there's a big notice that says there's no wayland support, plus a link to a different extension that sort of accomplishes the same goal, except I can't get it to stay in the exact spot I want it (between my weather and system menu on the right), but I'd say that's the problem with my Gnome randomly crashing. Also, the latest version of the shell listed on the gnome extensions page for top-icons-plus is Gnome 36.
19:55<Gerowen>If I turn the weather extension off and back on it situates my system tray icons where I want, but resets after I log out and log back in; I wonder if there's a way to set the order in which extensions are loaded to sort of enforce the ordering I want for these applets.
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20:09<grantdb>hey all just wondering about my laptop, its a pavoillion g6 and I am trying to decide between stable and testing, is there much difference if I use stable with backports compaired to testing?
20:10<bremner>yes.
20:10<bremner>stable with backports is more stable but has less up to date packages
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20:10<bremner>(not everything is backported)
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20:12<grantdb>is there a big difference on performance using an old laptop? I havent been able to see much of a difference except testing seems to be a little um flakey or tempermental
20:12<bremner>no. I would not expect a big performance difference
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20:17<grantdb>Any suggestions on optimizing gaming? I mean I use steam with all the default drivers for AMD. People keep telling me about Proton but if the game runs without is there any reason to use Proton?
20:18<Gerowen>So I've replaced all the extensions I got from the repos with more up to date versions or appropriate replacements from the Gnome Shell Extensions website, we'll see if that fixes my occasional crashes.
20:18<bremner>grantdb: sorry, not me, not a gamer. maybe someone else will chime in
20:18<Gerowen>grantdb: If there's a native Linux version I wouldn't bother trying to run the Windows version, unless there are problems with the Linux port. Rust, for example, "had" a native Linux port, but they stopped development so if you want to get all the new features and bux fixes, you need the Windows version with Proton.
20:19<sarnold>grantdb: I've heard good things about https://github.com/FeralInteractive/gamemode but haven't tried it myself
20:19<grantdb>bremner: ya me neither I just play a little couter strike or HL2 once in a while
20:19<sarnold>grantdb: that's in the gamemode package
20:19<grantdb>sarnold: thanks
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20:26<twb>proton is basically steam's fork of wine
20:26<twb>so "runs without proton" means "supports linux natively" I guess
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21:07<fudgespinner>sorry for nagging, dandersson. but about GNOME and nouveau. it seems like my issue that occurred after resuming from sleep is just with sid, I think it's to be expected...
21:08<fudgespinner>I'm using GNOME on bullseye right now, resuming works fine, sleeping works fine. everything works normally.
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22:48<Guest2651>Hi all, I am unable to access debian.org because I run a relay for the Tor Project (torproject.org). As a relay my IP *never* allows traffic to exit the tor network, so it doesn't pose any risk to Debian servers. I understand the reasoning behind dropping traffic from Tor exit nodes, but kindly request that the restrictions on Tor relays are removed.
22:51<twb>Guest2651: you need to talk to #debian-mirrors I guess
22:51<Guest2651>okay, will do
22:51<twb>Guest2651: what evidence do you have that your packets are being dropped?
22:52<twb>Could just be user error
22:52-!-ChmEarl [~prymar56@0002b86c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:52<somiaj>https://onion.debian.org/ do any of those work?
22:53-!-CeBe [~cebe@2a02:560:4a38:7800:512a:1fde:5d43:a54c] has joined #debian
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22:53<Guest2651>somiaj: I'm not trying to access debian over tor, just over the public internet from my IP which is associated with the tor project
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22:57<somiaj>ahh okay
22:58<Guest2651>twb: I can provide packet capture but that doesn't prove much. Testing from separate IP there's no issue. In the past I received HTTP error (access deined), now it's filtered no response from server
22:59<twb>Guest2651: you're doing something like "curl -v http://www.debian.org/" ?
23:00<Guest2651>twb: yes connection times out on port 80
23:00<twb>is that going to fastly or something?
23:00<twb>mtr --report www.debian.org
23:00<twb>with -4 and -6 I guess
23:01<Guest2651>looks like it's going to australian mirror actually: linux.org.au
23:01<Guest2651>Start: 2021-10-13T13:01:23+1000
23:01<Guest2651>HOST: outpost Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- lo1.bng02.syd01.spintel.n 0.0% 10 20.4 20.3 19.7 20.6 0.3 2.|-- ae0-1030.core01.syd1.spin 0.0% 10 16.6 17.0 16.6 17.6 0.3 3.|-- et0-0-0.edge01.syd1.spint 0.0% 10 19.6 22.7 19.2 50.3 9.7 4.|-- as7575.nsw.ix.asn.au 0.0% 10 17.3 17.8 16.5 20.3 1.3
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23:02<twb>do you just want to install stuff?
23:02<Guest2651>apt works fine
23:02<Guest2651>just can't go to the main site
23:02<twb>Ah OK
23:02<twb>I give very little shits about that
23:02<Guest2651>wiki.debian.org works
23:02<Guest2651>just trying to upgrade to bullseye actually
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23:19<Sqrt{not}>Guest2651, if apt works OK, you should be able to upgrade
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23:30<Guest2651>Problem resolved by setting RPZ record to force www.debian.org to resolve to MIT mirror instead of linux.org.au mirror
23:32<Guest2651>Needed to access release notes, etc
23:32<Sqrt{not}>good job.
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 13 00:00:18 2021