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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-17

---Logopened Sun Oct 17 00:00:23 2021
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01:16<grummund>deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ bullseye-security main
01:16<grummund>deb http://security.debian.org/ bullseye/updates main
01:17<grummund>Hi, Do the above both effectively acheive the same thing? And is one better than the other?
01:19<raven523>they are different. you probably want both
01:20<somiaj>bullseye/updates no longer exists, bullseye-updates is something else
01:20<somiaj>!bullseye/updates
01:20<dpkg>There is no "bullseye/updates" repository for security updates. To reduce confusion with <bullseye-updates> (which is for other bug fixes), security updates are distributed via the <bullseye-security> repository "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main". Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
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01:24<z386>gday everyone!
01:24<z386>does anyone know if there is an official firefox repo for apt?
01:25<grummund>So security.debian.org is only a thing for previous releases.
01:25<another>!sources.list
01:25<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
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01:27<grummund>!bullseye-updates
01:27<dpkg>bullseye-updates is a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. The updates may be important bug fixes or low priority security fixes. All packages from bullseye-updates will be included in point releases. https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates . Not to be confused with <bullseye-security> which is for <security> updates (<bullseye/updates> was renamed and does not exist).
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05:37<grummund>Can the apt-get warning "Package '...' is not installed, so not removed", be silenced without implying --yes ?
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06:13<Tj>grummund: other than redirecting output to /dev/null ?
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06:19<grummund>Tj: yes because that would silence all output.
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06:20-!-anser is "Alexander Gusev" on #debian-next #debian
06:21<Tj>grummund: there isn't a way; the message is written from apt-private/private-install.cc::pkgSourceList::TryToRemove()
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06:22<grummund>ok, thank you.
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06:23<grummund>afaict, -qq silences thw warning, but implies --yes and cannot be overriden with --assume-no.
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06:26<Tj>apt-get remove $package | grep -v 'so not removed'
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06:43<neo>ciao
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08:04<bonerboi>hey, recently updated the software on my raspbian and after a reboot cryptsetup isn't taking in my long (129 characters) password anymore. known bug?
08:04<jkc>bonerboi: Raspbian support is #raspbian on libera.chat.
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08:49<grummund>apt-get seems not to honour this option, is it correct?
08:49<grummund>apt-get -o Dir::Etc::main=/tmp/apt.conf ....
08:49<grummund>(debian 10)
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08:53<cowboypenguin>If I wanted to move to 5.14 on stable, using backports, what's the best practice for keeping it updated? If I apt install -t bullseye-backports linux-image, will apt update && apt upgrade start tracking the backported kernel?
08:53<cowboypenguin>I'm hoping that moving to 5.14 will make my bluetooth audio stop dropping randomly.
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08:55<dvs>cowboypenguin: yes, installing linux-image-amd64 will track backports
08:55<cowboypenguin>Great! Thank you.
08:55<dvs>np
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09:05<cowboypenguin>nvidia said no to my backported kernel :(
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09:32<scorpion2185[m]>cowboypenguin check Deb wiki about nvidia, you need driver from backports if you use backport kernel
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09:38-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
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09:40<scorpion2185[m]>I logged in on spectral but nothing happens
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09:49-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
09:49<scorpion2185[m]>I created a room and it crashes
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09:50<scorpion2185[m]>does it use python3-matrix-nio?
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10:14<DracuLars>why is there no dosbox-x package in debian? (Just want understand reasons)
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10:17<tarzeau>nobody packaged it?
10:18<Sqrt{not}>there is "dosbox"
10:19<Sqrt{not}>%dosbox
10:19<dselect>DOSBox is an open source x86 emulator designed to run old <DOS> games under unsupported platforms. See /usr/share/doc/dosbox/README.Debian for Debian-specific notes. See also http://www.markus-raab.org/Howtos/Hardware/midi regarding sound. http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/DOSBox_FAQ http://www.dosbox.com/ #dosbox on irc.libera.chat.
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10:30<DracuLars>reason of interest:using bullseye dosbox on raspberry pi4, is a bit slow, hope dosbox-x is faster...
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10:46-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
10:49<scorpion2185[m]>%spectral
10:50<marcello42>hey I am using the debian installer (expert mode) and need to format the disk manually to use special flags (-cc) on mke2fs - I saw the installer is mounting into /target .. just to be safe: if I do mount them manually via shell and skip the partion part in the installer does anything touch the partions again or is there another way to achieve formating with -cc flag "easier"? well it is not a big deal but the
10:50<marcello42>debian installer is not my best friend tbh :)
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10:56<Sqrt{not}>marcello42, I think the installer has an option to use a partition as-is, without being formatted by the installer. You could prepare that partition in advance (with live system, or whatever) and then just give it to the installer
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10:58<marcello42>@sqrt - I was lookin for such but still not sure how to verify - I mean a quick format is quicker done than seen! dropping a shell in debian works just fine so there is not a need to use another iso at all
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11:07<cpi>hello world
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11:08<cpi>hello
11:13<DracuLars>Other Question: Debian variant with Panfrost enabled for Odroid N2+? anything on the horizont?
11:13<Sqrt{not}>marcello42, in the manual partitioner, when you select a partition, it will tell you how it is currently partitioned, and ask you how to use it. you can select to use it that same way (e.g. ext3 or whatever it is) and the next question is "format the partition" where you can select "no, keep existing data"
11:15<marcello42><Sqrt{not}>, thanks! I surely didn't see that the 20th time I tried. I'll try it as soon as I can access the machine again.
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11:20<Sqrt{not}>marcello42, (I am in the non-graphical expert installer of bullseye, but I think it has been like that in other versions.... I have never tried the graphical installers, so if that is where you are, I don't know)
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11:24<marcello42>nope I use the same as you, the GUI is btw exactly the same from what I can tell :) just uses some, imo, unnecessary graphic components, but I guess that is just a preference of choice
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11:32<cpi>hello
11:33<Sqrt{not}>hi cpi, welcome
11:34<twb>Sqrt{not}: the actual questions in both graphical and text mode should be identical
11:34<Sqrt{not}>twb, yah, I just ran through that part in graphical, and questions/choices seem identical
11:34<twb>Sqrt{not}: and yes, you can definitely tell partman (the partitioning part of d-i) to use an existing FILESYSTEM without calling mkfs
11:34<cpi>so im trying to get the morse code plugin to work but i cant seem to find it anywhere after getting it from synaptic
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11:35<twb>I routinely pause d-i and call parted and mkfs by hand, because d-i uses base-1000 (4GB) and I want base-1024 (4GiB)
11:35<cpi>its called cwirc
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11:40<Sqrt{not}>cpi, which linux version are you running?
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11:41<cpi>raspbian
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11:42<Sqrt{not}>cpi, that is a little different from regular debian, but they have their own irc channels:
11:42<Sqrt{not}>%raspbian
11:42<dselect>Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.libera.chat for support. https://www.raspbian.org/
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11:43<cpi>ok rad thank you guys!
11:43<Sqrt{not}>cpi, no problem, good luck
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11:44<twb>Or you can run Debian and get support here :-)
11:45<cpi>im wanting to use my pi to morse chat
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11:50<marcello42>twb, thanks for making this clear! So I assume it is in the selection menu at 'partition disks', is it?
11:51<twb>marcello42: you need to choose there "manual partitioning"
11:51<marcello42>sure ok thanks!
11:51<twb>marcello42: it will show existing partitions. Select one, choose "use as ext4", "use as /" and then change "format" to "use as is"
11:51<twb>marcello42: I may have the exact wording slightly wrog
11:51<marcello42>aaah now
11:52<marcello42>so this will not reformating great! wasn't that clear to me sadly so thank you
11:52<marcello42>you both ;)
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11:53<twb>marcello42: yes it is not obvious the first time :-)
11:54<twb>marcello42: you may want to do a small test first, to make sure it works how you think
11:54<marcello42>I will spin up a VM later, good advice
11:54<twb>marcello42: you can also do a completely manual install using debootstrap or similar, it is in the Installation Guide under "install from another unix"
11:54<marcello42>coming from arch I am used to different workflow installing the OS ;) but I will spin up a home lab and I think debian is the best choice here
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11:55<twb>That is how I make Debian Live images: https://github.com/cyberitsolutions/bootstrap2020/blob/main/debian-11-minimal.py
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11:56<marcello42>twb, I will have a look here. I also installed debian10 on my qnap arm. Stupid enough I have to reflash it now, since I cannot log in because I only have added root as a user and yea.. loggin in over ssh does not work anymore :D I mounted the drive and added permitrootlogin but yea.. It does not boot anymore
11:57<twb>marcello42: do you have local terminal at all?
11:58<scorpion2185[m]>that's another case of root discrimination
11:58<marcello42>twb, nope it is completely headless not even a keyboard to plugin
11:58<twb>marcello42: if you can edit boot prompt, add "break=bottom", then do something like "wget https://github.com/marcello42.keys >> /root/.ssh/authorized_keys"
11:58<twb>marcello42: or if the rootfs is on a SD card, you can do the same by moving the card to something else temporarily
11:59<marcello42>the rootfs is in the flash memory (16MB) which is soldered to the board
11:59<twb>There are limits to my powers :-)
11:59<marcello42>:D
11:59<marcello42>it only boots from the designated offset in the ROM
12:00<marcello42>but the guys from the deb team made a great job to get it fully working
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12:04<DracuLars>Thanks for making Debian, use it since a very long time, goodbye...
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12:06<bremner>scorpion2185[m]: just because you want to use your system in a very strange way doesn't mean anyone else is obligated to help you do so. There is no such thing as "root discrimination".
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12:11<marcello42>another perhaps more general question, is there any disadvantage using legacy bios compare to EFI for a debian install (especially in a VM) if debian is the only OS which should run here? The only thing I could think of is that legacy support will be dropped one day, but from how I do understand it is, that would ONLY be related to the bootloader rather than to the OS.
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12:30<TobiX>marcello42: Well, there are some security features you only get to use with UEFI Secure Boot... (For example: https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/manpages/kernel_lockdown.7.en.html)
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12:32<TobiX>Well, you can use them without UEFI Secure Boot, but then they are easily circumvented (just edit the grub config and reboot)
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12:42<marcello42>I see
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12:49<tjcarter>hm, seems udev rules do not grant console access to /dev/media* … is there a reason for that or are they just not keeping up with how webcams do webcammy things nowadays?
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12:54<TobiX>tjcarter: Do you mean /dev/video* - Those get ACLs assigned by logind IIRC
12:55<tjcarter>No, /dev/media*
12:55<tjcarter>I get two /dev/video* and a /dev/media* for each webcam device (internal and external)
12:55<tjcarter>I don't know why two /dev/video devices, that's weird
12:56<TobiX>Some webcams are two video devices :/
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12:56<tjcarter>Three in this case
12:56<tjcarter>well, two video devices and a media controller
12:56<TobiX>My thingpad webcam is video0 and video1, but only video0 delivers a picture
12:56<TobiX>thinkpad*
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12:58<FLD>i also get 1cam2videos
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12:59<TobiX>FLD: :D
12:59<tjcarter>For some reason this is seeing my Logitech C930e as /dev/video0, /dev/video1, and /dev/media0. 81:0, 81:1, and 239:0
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13:00<tjcarter>There's also a fun little bug where the v4l device keeps crapping itself under 5.14 kernels … but realizing I didn't have access to the media controller was discovered while trying to debug that
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13:02<TobiX>Aren't the video devices enough to do "webcammy" things?
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13:08<tjcarter>making it so I only have one camera here: https://termbin.com/7ze9c
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13:08<tjcarter>Found a file online Debian doesn't seem to ship with
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13:09<tjcarter>https://termbin.com/vrso
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13:10<tjcarter>adding that fixes the problem: https://termbin.com/dmtu
13:10<tjcarter>I now have full access to e.g. set this thing to 30 fps at 4k
13:11<tjcarter>er not this one, this won't do 30 fps at 4k, my ipevo document camera will
13:11<tjcarter>was trying to use that on lappy, but I just plugged the ipevo in on the desktop and the option now exists
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13:20<tjcarter>ah, cause discovered, I'm having AMD's famous USB disconnects
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13:23<Sqrt{not}>marcello42, the menu flow in the partition is a little non-intuitive. Select "Manual"; select your partition;Enter to change "Use as: Do not use";arrow to select appropriate filesystem (matching what it was already reported as); arrow down to "Format the partition: yes format it";hit enter to change the message to "no, keep existing data"; then proceed as normal.
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13:44<twb>bremner: well; it's true that treating root specially is a dirty hack inherited from Unix, because it was simpler than having a full MLS capabilities system
13:45<twb>bremner: I suspect that scorpion2185[m] is talking about e.g. chromium refusing to run as root because that would be Bloody Stupid
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14:00<scorpion2185[m]>bremner: who said that everyone else is obligated? who runs as root is discriminated like that guy that now has to reinstall the OS
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14:04<matt`>I'm running Firefox via flatpak on bullseye (under Gnome) and fonts like Helvetica are rendered poorly. They look like bitmap fonts. Some internet sleuthing reveals that this may be related to xdg-desktop-portal and/or xdg-desktop-portal-gtk, which bullseye's flatpack depends upon, but which do not seem to run when I run firefox with flatpak. Any idea where I can go from here?
14:04<scorpion2185[m]>I was talking about "I also installed debian10 on my qnap arm. [...] I have to reflash it now, since I cannot log in because I only have added root as a user and yea.. loggin in over ssh does not work anymore :D I mounted the drive and added permitrootlogin but yea.. It does not boot anymore
14:04<scorpion2185[m]>marcello42 said that
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14:11<fernie>matt`: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1621915#c3
14:13<marcello42>scorpion2185[m], what is matter I do not get what you are talking about, perhaps it is me since my English is kinda limited, but do you mind to elaborate what you wanted to tell me?
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14:15<scorpion2185[m]>I didn't want to tell you anything in particular, just that because root log in doesn't work you had to reflash OS
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14:18<marcello42>yea, well I just wanted to setup a simple fileserver with the least amount of overhead on a very limited device which is anyway only accessible in LAN. perhaps not best practice but if you get phyiscal access to the device you can anyway do whatever you want to the device.
14:18<tjcarter>well my cheap-ass KVM is still a flaming pile of dog crap, but … yeah, I'm otherwise amazed. Current BIOS has fixed a number of USB instabilities. If you're having weirdness with USB, particularly on AMD systems with later kernels, check for upgrade
14:18<marcello42>so deactivating root doesn't bring any benifit at all
14:18<marcello42>(in my case)
14:19<scorpion2185[m]>https://www.garyshood.com/root/
14:20<twb>scorpion2185[m]: "PermitRootLogins without-password" is in the Debian 9 or 10 release notes >shrug<
14:21<twb>You can always change that default, or use GNU ssh instead of OpenSSH
14:21<scorpion2185[m]>nice tell it to marcello42 is not me as I said, root log in security http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/login.html
14:22<twb>Both those links seem to miss the principle-of-least-privilege and defense-in-depth doctrines.
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14:32<matt`>fernie : That for that link. It works! ..but feels like an unfortunate hack.
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14:34<sanosuke>Hello! My name is Sanosuke.
14:34<sanosuke>I need some help with my screen res
14:34<sanosuke>problems w/ EDID in fact
14:35<tjcarter>sanosuke: too high or too low, or just totally wrong?
14:35<sanosuke>Just low res showing on my 2nd analog screen
14:35<sanosuke>Trouble seem to be in the lack of EDID reading
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14:36<sanosuke>I tried loading edid at boot
14:36<sanosuke>here is my proc cmdline
14:36<sanosuke>BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.4.0-3-amd64 root=UUID=4585016b-6561-4414-81b4-1659445df032 ro quiet splash video=HDMI-A-1:e
14:37<fernie>matt`: yeah idk how it works for these flatpaks and why isnt the systemwide config at /etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf used, which does same thing
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14:37<tjcarter>sanosuke: you're under X?
14:37<sanosuke>I tried adding drm.edid_firmware=DVI-I-1:1705S1.edid,1705S1.edid video=DVI-I-1:e
14:38<sanosuke>Yes
14:38<tjcarter>(I don't know how to do this for Wayland)
14:38<tjcarter>xrandr | nc termbin.com 9999
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14:39<sanosuke>https://termbin.com/8ch4
14:39*tjcarter looks
14:40<sanosuke>Here's the verbose variant
14:40<sanosuke>https://termbin.com/ubg1
14:40<tjcarter>which one is your primary?
14:40<sanosuke>DVI-I-2
14:41<sanosuke>My oldie VGA monitor is plugged on DVI-I-1
14:41<sanosuke>I downloaded its edid
14:41<tjcarter>why are you providing it twice?
14:41<tjcarter>drm.edid_firmware=DVI-I-1:1705S1.edid,1705S1.edid
14:42<sanosuke>and tried to load it at boot
14:42<sanosuke>using this guide
14:42<sanosuke>https://wiki.debian.org/RepairEDID
14:42<sanosuke>because it didn't work
14:42<sanosuke>so tested adding it for every monitor
14:43<tjcarter>Did you put 1705S1.edid in /lib/firmware?
14:43<sanosuke>I'm using nvidia 340 legacy drivers btw, dunno if it's related to my issue
14:44<sanosuke>yes i did
14:44<tjcarter>shouldn't be
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14:44<sanosuke>https://termbin.com/1l2m
14:45<tjcarter>ah, a quick glance at that … did you rebuild your initramfs?
14:45<sanosuke>I installed wxEDID to check it's alright
14:45<sanosuke>mmm, nope
14:45<tjcarter>as root, update-initramfs -u -k all
14:45<sanosuke>should I :S
14:46<sanosuke>on its way
14:46<tjcarter>any time you add stuff to kernel or to kernel firmware, you want to update the initramfs
14:46<sanosuke>alright
14:47<sanosuke>but how does it know I added it to kernel
14:47<sanosuke>I just edited /edt/default/grub
14:47<sanosuke>etc*
14:47<sanosuke>and run updated-grub
14:47<tjcarter>for that you update-grub
14:47<sanosuke>yes, sry misstyped
14:48<tjcarter>(you could also add it to your module options since I think drm gets modprobed, lemme check)
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14:48<sanosuke>thx a lot, tale your time
14:48<sanosuke>take*
14:48<matt`>fernie: yes, and I don't know to what extent Fontconfig is still relevant for Gnome (which might have its own font config mechanism?). I think I'll just install firefox natively the old fashioned way!
14:49<tjcarter>yes, it could've been done using modutils, but it doesn't hurt to do it on kernel command line
14:49<tjcarter>matt`: Gnome still uses fontconfig's caches and whatnot
14:50<sanosuke>I'll need some guidance to do it using modutils if that can do the trick
14:53<tjcarter>you'd create /etc/modprobe.d/drm-<your machine>.options with edid_firmware=DVI-I-1:1705S1.edid then update-initramfs as above
14:54<sanosuke>awesome, ima try it! Thx
14:54<tjcarter>excuse me that's wrong
14:54<tjcarter>optiond drm edid_firmware=DVI-I-1:1705S1.edid
14:54<tjcarter>options drm edid_firmware=DVI-I-1:1705S1.edid
14:55*tjcarter decides he needs to learn how to tpye
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14:55<tjcarter>(you could just have it be on the linux command line though!)
14:55<twb>tjcarter: I was only half listening. Are you basically writing an extra EDID blob to the mainboard, and then telling the kernel to use it?
14:56<twb>Oh never mind
14:56<tjcarter>twb: he's got a monitor that isn't reporting EDID, so he's adding it as a firmware blob
14:56<twb>I thought you said /sys/firmware not /lib/firmware
14:56<tjcarter>I had to learn this crap for an old, even crappier KVM than the one I have now.
14:56<twb>I understand now
14:56<sanosuke>K, gonna reboot to check if it works
14:56<tjcarter>back then X11 would crash if the monitor disappeared
14:57<sanosuke>brb
14:57<sanosuke>Thx again, brb
14:57<tjcarter>monitor/keyboard went away = oh noes! *crash*
14:57<tjcarter>Solution was dummy USB keyboard and hard-coded EDID
14:57<twb>tjcarter: one time my monitor was reporting wrong modelines on DVI-D but not D-sub. And I didn't have a D-sub cable anymore. So I googled, found an old Xorg.0.log someone had pastebinned, copied the modelines from that, and put them into xrandr. It worked!
14:58<twb>Then I noticed the pastebin was uploaded by... myself, 6 years earlier :-)
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14:58*tjcarter lols
14:59<twb>http://ix.io/26yn <-- the actual command, still in my notes
14:59<tjcarter>Or! When you find a question on stackexchange and it has no answer, asked by you 8 years earlier.
14:59<tjcarter>Or worse! when you answer yourself "I figured it out" and didn't put the solution. I mean it's bad when someone does that, but if it was you, hang your head in shame.
15:00<tjcarter>that hasn't happened to ME yet.
15:00<tjcarter>the one where I didn't get an answer the first time has.
15:01<twb>tjcarter: I never do that for exactly that reason
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15:01<tjcarter>oh good, because I'd laugh at you if it had. I always explain the solution I found if I found one.
15:01<sanosuke>I'm back
15:01<tjcarter>did it help?
15:02<sanosuke>not yet look at this file i edited
15:02<sanosuke>maybe i did wrong
15:02<sanosuke>I typed sudo cat /etc/modprobe.d/drm-kms-helper.conf
15:02<sanosuke>https://termbin.com/2zeae
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15:03<tjcarter>that first line won't help much because you don't have any HDMI
15:04<sanosuke>count it as removed ;)
15:04<tjcarter>twb: can you think of something I'm forgetting?
15:05<sanosuke>I did the update-initramfs thing
15:05<tjcarter>yeah, gimme a second, let's see if it took
15:06<twb>tjcarter: re sanosuke's problem? Sorry, no idea
15:06<twb>tjcarter: I don't even run X anymore :P
15:06<sanosuke>xD
15:07<sanosuke>k, i'll be back after dinner
15:07<tjcarter>sanosuke: cat /sys/module/drm/parameters/edid_firmware
15:07<sanosuke>so I let the gurus think xD
15:07<sanosuke>sudo cat /sys/module/drm/parameters/edid_firmware
15:07<sanosuke>DVI-I-1:1705S1.edid,1705S1.edid
15:07<twb>whenevver I see "XD" I think of nerve stapling in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
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15:07<twb>https://alphacentauri.fandom.com/wiki/Nerve_stapling
15:08<tjcarter>oh, remove the part ,1705S1.edid I don't know if that's screwing it up
15:08<sanosuke>aight
15:08<tjcarter>we'll be here when you get back (or someone will be if I'm not)
15:08<sanosuke>thumbs up
15:09<sanosuke>Thx once again
15:09<sanosuke>Ciao!!!
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15:09<tjcarter>may you find success on your next reboot! 😁
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15:15<tjcarter>twb: I just went and configured emoji in Debian long before Debian was really set up for it by default. Accessibility reasons.
15:16<tjcarter>How does a screen reader know what "xD" i supposed to be? However it knows exactly what 😆 is.
15:17<tjcarter>Because 😆 has a specific defined name for what that character is, it's not ambiguous.
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15:18<twb>tjcarter: KOLOBOK LIVES
15:21<tjcarter>Granted, that's gotten a little screwy in modern times … FAMILY WITH POLYAMOROUS OPEN RELATIONSHIP WITH MAN, TWO WOMEN, ONE NON-BINARY, AND THREE CHILDREN: A BOY AND TWO GIRLS, ONE DOG (TERRIER), TWO CATS,AND PET IGUANA … I mean that's probably only slightly an exaggeration of current emoji compositions.
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15:21<tjcarter>It was easier when there was emoji for "FAMILY", but when you want to start expressing the "It's Complicated" of MY family … good luck with that.
15:23<tjcarter>"MY" being of course entirely subjective to the individual, because everyone's is going to be somewhat different.
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15:23*tjcarter notes lack of composition character for "albino", so he's just classic non-specific yellow.
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15:26<sanosuke>Hi again! Back from dinner (and reboot...)
15:26<sanosuke>no luck yet
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15:27<sanosuke> 😶
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15:31<twb>tjcarter: Unicode combining characters for melanin are based on Fitzpatrick, which uses a single sliding scale for tendency to burn vs. tan when exposed to ultraviolet energy. Albinism might be classed as fitzpatrick-1; I don't know if there's a specific TR about it
15:31<twb>tjcarter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzpatrick_scale
15:31<zleap>I don't expect an answer to this directly but could someone please explain why the hell in 2021 the thunar file manager does not even include a basic file search facility
15:32<sanosuke>k, I guess, I'll try harder tomorrow. Cya tomorrow!!
15:32<tjcarter>because in 2021 thunar wants to be small and use little resources.
15:32<twb>zleap: you're supposed to use an external tool like catfish
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15:33<zleap>ok
15:33<twb>zleap: thunar can search within the current directory IIRC
15:33<zleap>i can't find the search facility
15:33<zleap>ok so i just do apt install catfish then
15:33<twb>catfish is what I shpi
15:33<twb>*ship
15:33<zleap>ok
15:33<twb>You'll probably want to also install findutils and mlocate
15:33<zleap>is catfish a gui tool
15:34<twb>Or even plocate these days...
15:34<twb>zleap: yes, catfish is a GUI
15:34<twb>It is part of XFCE
15:34<twb>https://docs.xfce.org/apps/catfish
15:34<zleap>catfish doesnt appear to be inclded by default
15:35<twb>https://docs.xfce.org/apps/catfish/usage
15:35<zleap>ok got it
15:35<tjcarter>somehow catfish is not part of the xfce task
15:35<zleap>i'll make a blog post to tell people
15:35<twb>It might be replaced as default by something else nowadays
15:35<tjcarter>that really ought to be corrected
15:35<zleap>tjcarter, yeah i think new users coming from windows / mac may somehow expect a search for file facility
15:36<zleap>i will make a blog post anyway
15:36<tjcarter>Users coming from Mac/Windows are probably using Gnome, KDE, or Cinnamon
15:37<twb>"grep-aptavail -FHomepage xfce" and then looking for "search" only finds xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin
15:37<tjcarter>but yes, XFCE could use a little more care
15:38<twb>Hrm, can plocate read databases created by mlocate?
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15:38<twb>"Breaks: mlocate" is not promising
15:39<twb>Wow, in Debian 12 mlocate is gone
15:44<azeem>progress
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15:53<tjcarter>plocate doesn't use mlocate's index
15:53<tjcarter>its own is way smaller
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15:55<twb>tjcarter: I thought it might support the old format for backcompat
15:56<twb>it doesn't
15:56<zleap>https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/catfish-file-search
15:56<zleap>just made a blog post
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16:01<twb>tjcarter: https://bugs.debian.org/996735
16:02<tjcarter>My big XFCE "why is this dumb?" involves plugging in USB headphones
16:02<tjcarter>gee, you probably don't want to switch to those
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16:02<tjcarter>nor do you really want a convenient way to do that without digging through pulseaudio!
16:03<twb>It's not actually substantially smaller for me: 2.9M test.mlocatedb 5.9M test.plocatedb
16:03<tjcarter>where you … "set fallback" ? wut?
16:03<twb>Withouth compression=zstd, they're both ~6½MB
16:03<tjcarter>wow, that's the opposite of smaller
16:03<twb>6.6M test.mlocatedb 6.3M test.plocatedb
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16:04<tjcarter>I don't even wanna know how big my db is
16:04<twb>tjcarter: re USB headphones, are you using pipewire, pulseaudio, or something else?
16:04<twb>tjcarter: xfce in Debian 11 defaults to pa
16:04<tjcarter>I have pulseaudio
16:04<tjcarter>it doesn't automatically switch
16:04<twb>interesting
16:04<twb>I didn't think the GUI had to be involved in that AT ALL
16:05<tjcarter>Cinnamon's has this weird thing where devices appear multiple times in SPDIF and not flavors (when the devices in question don't have SPDIF)
16:11<tjcarter>twb: I haven't played with pipewire much. It's running, but it's running in the same capacity that it is under bullseye. I haven't done any due dilligence yet on how or if to migrate to it as a primary audio thingy.
16:12<twb>I did a basic test of "can I hear noises in youtube in chromium in xfce" and it worked the same with pipewire as pa
16:12<twb>With this: http://ix.io/3C4j
16:13<twb>Hrm interesting... "disable pulseaudio" there should error if pulseaudio is not installed. Which implies it WAS installed, even in pipewire builds.
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16:16<tjcarter>does xbell work with pipewire?
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16:17<tjcarter>with pulse I need https://termbin.com/hhhw
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16:19<tjcarter>crap, gotta run
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16:39<whoody362>hey. is there any way to install the tp link archer t3u plus on debian stable?
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16:47<jmcnaught>whoody361: is it USB? What happens when you plug it in? After plugging it in check the commands "dmesg" or "journalctl -e" to see if there are messages about missing firmware.
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16:48<pert>it is USB, but he just left :(
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16:48<whoody361>hey. is there any way to install the tp link archer t3u plus on debian stable?
16:49<jmcnaught>whoody361: is it USB? What happens when you plug it in? After plugging it in check the commands "dmesg" or "journalctl -e" to see if there are messages about missing firmware.
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16:51<whoody362>nothing happens. i can get it to work on mint with a script on github which i basically copy/paste. but in debian stable i cant.
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16:51<whoody362>the next problem is, i have the machine on dualboot, so i cant just put in the command. otherwise i cannot write here :s
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16:53<twb>So that's just a USB<->802.11ac adapter?
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16:55<twb>https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/usb-adapter/archer-t3u-plus/
16:55<pert>whoody361: could you give us the relevant output of the 'lsusb' command so we can identify the chip for sure?
16:55<pert>especially with USB devices, manufacturers like to switch the internals out without changing the model name/number
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16:56<twb>Yes what really matters is the chip
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16:59<lnxnoob>sorry, had disconnect
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17:00<pert>could you give us the relevant output of the 'lsusb' command so we can identify the chip for sure? especially with USB devices, manufacturers like to switch the internals out without changing the model name/number
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17:01<lnxnoob>alright, ill take a look and come back with the output
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17:03<twb>And if you have 2 computers, use IRC on the other one instead of rebooting...
17:03<sney>wonder what their next nick will be. /s
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17:14<lnxnoob>im back again. the output for the usb wlan is: Bus 002 Device 002: ID 2357:0138 TP-Link 802.11ac NIC
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17:15<jmcnaught>lnxnoob: maybe you can tether your phone over USB to your computer? Having some connectivity would help troubleshooting. Or maybe use IRC from another device so you don't keep disconnecting?
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17:18<lnxnoob>i can. but because its late i thought about doing it tomorrow.
17:18<lnxnoob>or do you think that it is done quickly?
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17:19<jmcnaught>lnxnoob: if you installed GNOME, KDE, or Xfce as a desktop when you installed Debian then NetworkManager will probably detect and enable the USB networking device (your phone)
17:20<pert>lnxnoob: was this a device you purchased recently? if you expected it to work better with GNU/Linux, perhaps you could return it. unfortunately off-the-shelf hardware has to be chosen selectively for GNU/Linux, especially if you want it to work with a minimum of proprietary software
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17:21<pert>of course we'll still try to get it to work, but just a thought
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17:26<lnxnoob1>sorry, i got disconnected again. so i installed xfce with debian buster stable. what is network manager? will it work over my iphone?
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17:27<jmcnaught>lnxnoob: I do not know if iphone can do USB tethering, most Androids can
17:27<lnxnoob>and no, i didnt purchase the usb wlan recently. had it here and on windows it worked just fine out of the box. what is a good usb wlan adapter that works with debian?
17:28<pert>lnxnoob: I must disclose that they've provided me compensation in the past for my Debian packaging work related to it, but this works with exclusively free software and is pretty much the best you can do: https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-wireless-n-usb-adapter-gnu-linux-tpe-n150usb
17:29<pert>there are a few other vendors that are Free Software Foundation Respects Your Freedom-certified that sell them too
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17:30<LtL>jmcnaught: iphone can do tethering via usb.
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17:35<lnxnoob>and how?
17:36<jmcnaught>"Siri? Tether over USB."
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17:38<LtL>lnxnoob: use the charging cable and plug the usb end in to a usb port
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17:38<lnxnoob>and itll just work so?
17:39<LtL>lnxnoob: iirc, you need to enable hot spot on the phone
17:40<LtL>I rarely need to do it, but i assure you it can work
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17:41<twb>Does iOS let you change the phone's name yet, for when your wife's name is Siri?
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17:58<zoke>twb: I was a bit confused there... cisco and Siri... but then the apple dropped
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19:41<olmos_bcn>hi , hola , someone could helpme... i have 2 screens and i have problem with resolution
19:42<twb>olmos_bcn: what is the problem?
19:42<olmos_bcn>eii thks .... im sorry for my english
19:42<olmos_bcn>im from spain
19:42<olmos_bcn>but i will try to explaind
19:42<olmos_bcn>so i have two screens one by hdmi cable
19:43<olmos_bcn>and other with vga
19:43<olmos_bcn>i have this cardproduct: CometLake-S GT2 [UHD Graphics 630]
19:44<olmos_bcn>i can't put best resolution in monitor that have vga cable
19:45<olmos_bcn>this is my problem
19:46<twb>olmos_bcn: OK. Please run the command "xrandr", and pastebin the output.
19:47<twb>olmos_bcn: also, if you prefer, you can ask for help in Spanish on #debian-es
19:47<olmos_bcn>Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 2384 x 768, maximum 16384 x 16384 DP-1 connected primary 1024x768+1360+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 0mm x 0mm 1024x768 60.00* 800x600 60.32 56.25 848x480 60.00 640x480 59.94 HDMI-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) HDMI-2 connected 1360x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 410mm x 230mm 1360x768
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19:49<twb>olmos_bcn: your output was truncated. Try https://paste.debian.net
19:49<Cari-gb>Boa noite. Alguém que fale português?
19:49<twb>!pt
19:49<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-br ) - debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org
19:50<twb>olmos_bcn: it seems your screen is detected as 1024x768 max resolution.
19:50<olmos_bcn>yes
19:50<twb>olmos_bcn: this is "DP-1" which is Display Port not VGA
19:50<twb>olmos_bcn: are you using some kind of adapter cable?
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19:51<olmos_bcn>no, i use vga cable from card to screen and hdmi from card to screen to
19:51<olmos_bcn>too
19:52<olmos_bcn>if i change the monitor who have hdmi cable have max resultion ... but the monitor with vga cable always 1024x768
19:52-!-driib9576057107688143845 [~driib@185.195.233.168] has joined #debian
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19:52<twb>olmos_bcn: OK there are two possible problems
19:52<olmos_bcn>ok
19:53-!-driib957605710768814384 [~driib@185.195.233.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:53<twb>olmos_bcn: 1) your graphics card cannot drive both monitors at full resolution. This is unlikely.
19:53<twb>olmos_bcn: 2) the detection is broken. This uses "DDC" or "EDID" protocol.
19:53<twb>olmos_bcn: my guess is DP->VGA is somehow breaking that
19:54<twb>I don't know exactly how to fix this, but you might try this tool: gddccontrol
19:54<olmos_bcn>i have other partition with windows and they working good
19:54<twb>olmos_bcn: you can also look at Xorg.0.log
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20:00<olmos_bcn>where is Xorg.0.log?
20:00<sney>in /var/log usually
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20:01<Cari-gb>Goodnight.
20:01<Cari-gb>I am a Debian 10 user and I want to enable the use of multiple virtual terminals, with the commands ctrl+alt+Fx
20:01<Cari-gb>How do I enable this function? Can someone help me?
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20:04<twb>Cari-gb: that should Just Work, it's the default behaviour
20:06<Cari-gb>In Debian 10 this function is disabled
20:07<sney>that smells wayland-related
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20:30<twb>sney: WFM on Debian 11 with gnome3 wayland
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20:35<tjcarter>or sddm for KDE
20:36<tjcarter>"why shouldn't the DM use the first three VTs?" ^^^^^^^^^^^
20:36<tjcarter>That, above, and the fact that this is NOT the first time the question has been asked
20:37*tjcarter wanders off to get ready for another appointment since he doesn't know how to "break" the holy Gnoman Empire's decree that nobody needs their VTs anymore.
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20:38<twb>tjcarter: I've never seen it coopt more than 1 or 2
20:38<twb>Is the unstated confusion arising bceause the GUI takes vt1 instead of vt7?
20:38<twb>And the OP didn't try Ctrl+Alt+F4 only F1
20:39<tjcarter>apparently it's possible for it to eat up to 3. And it may or may not permit you to changge them regardless.
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20:40<tjcarter>One a coupld of days ago changed VTs to find only black screen and flashing cursor waiting, though I don't know how/if that resolved.
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20:41<twb>tjcarter: that is normal under system stress, because getty starts on-demand now
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20:42<twb>getty *should* auto-start once you switch to a terminal, for terminals up to 8
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21:44<plusi>I installed gnome desktop environment on my server for a graphical interface, how would one access that now? anyone got something simple and fast to recommend?
21:45<sney>xrdp
21:45<sney>though a full desktop gui will not be particularly snappy over a network
21:46<sney>,i xrdp
21:46<judd>Package xrdp (net, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) server. Version: 0.9.12-1.1; Size: 435.5k; Installed: 2951k; Homepage: http://www.xrdp.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/xrdp
21:46<plusi>got it. its enough to just apt install xrdp right?
21:46<twb>cool kids use broadway
21:46<twb>that runs gnome inside a web browser
21:47<plusi>twb that sounds awesome actually. i didnt know of it
21:47<twb>broadwayd :0 & GDK_BACKEND=broadway BROADWAY_DISPLAY=:0 virt-manager & firefox-esr http://127.0.0.1:8080 &
21:47<sney>me neither
21:47<twb>only works for GTK3 apps
21:47<plusi>lmao vouch
21:48<sney>rdp handles login and session launching, it's the same protocol and works much the same as windows remote desktop
21:48<plusi>sney thats dope
21:48<plusi>what u guys say about vnc and spice?
21:48<sney>vnc is 1990s technology
21:49<sney>spice seems fine but I've never had to bother with it
21:49<twb>sney: well, so is RDP
21:49<plusi>both are still widely used so it doesnt matter =D
21:49<twb>fortunately you can still choose X which is 1980s tech :P
21:49<plusi>i think some old tech is actually better
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21:51<sney>sometimes, but vnc is not included in that
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21:52<plusi>sney ill end up going with both xrdp and broadwayd
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23:59-!-kali_ [~kali@dhcp-arrisc4-01405.tvs12.jp] has joined #debian
23:59-!-kali_ is "realname" on #debian
---Logclosed Mon Oct 18 00:00:22 2021