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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-22

---Logopened Fri Oct 22 00:00:30 2021
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00:13<r4fkramer>Hi all. Please, I would like to know why these error messages suddenly started to occur. My Debian is not exhibiting any instability or abnormal behavior despite these messages: https://paste.debian.net/1216358/
00:16<somiaj>If you are noticing no issues, nothing to worry about
00:17<somiaj>If you updated a kernel recentally, maybe the kernel is looking for newer firmware which you just don't have, which is fine
00:17<somiaj>,v firmware-misc-nonfree
00:17<judd>Package: firmware-misc-nonfree on amd64 -- stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20210315-3~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20210315-3; bookworm/non-free: 20210818-1; sid/non-free: 20210818-1
00:17<somiaj>but the nouveau firmware is in firmware-misc-nofree
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00:18<r4fkramer>Hello somiaj, nice to meet you. Okay, but you'll agree that there should be some reason why red flagged error messages started to appear, and worse, for no apparent reason.
00:19<r4fkramer>Only makes sense if I really need some additional firmware or driver.
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00:19<r4fkramer>firmware-misc-nonfree is already the newest version (20210315-3)
00:20<r4fkramer>So, I have this one
00:20<somiaj>the kernel that came with the point release may have just came with the knowledge of newer firmware files
00:21<somiaj>it is jsut fine, you left out context, maybe it failed to load those files, but then sucessfully loaded some other firmware file, which is normal
00:21<somiaj>kernel spouts out lots of warnings, don't worry about them if your system runs fine
00:21<r4fkramer>Ok, so I will not be worried about that anymore.
00:22<r4fkramer>Yes, it's just running fine here: rock solid, high performance and stable
00:24<r4fkramer>Debian through Astra Linux is the Platform for nuclear research in Russia, and the development of the most powerful intercontinental ballistic missiles in the world today, with a range in excess of 18,000 km. Impressive.
00:26<somiaj>Although nice it is used in various places, I don't know if I personally agree with using Debian to create weapons.
00:26<somiaj>anyways, this is off-topic
00:27<r4fkramer>Sorry somiaj, You are right. Sometimes I am carried away by the excitement as this shows the enormous power of this Linux Distro.
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00:30<r4fkramer>Well somiaj, after clarifications I had with You through Support here, I did two new debian installs with ext4. I have never again had any error messages from services not started in Debian via 'systemctl status'.
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00:37<twb>somiaj: tough -- DFSG doesn't allow restrictions on field of endeavour
00:37<somiaj>twb: Of course, it can be used in any way
00:37<twb>it's why "don't be evil" isn't DFSG
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00:38<somiaj>maybe GPL4 will sneak in clauses like that...*jokes*
00:39<somiaj>someone a while ago was wondering why some software wasn't in debian, and that is because its license basically had a clause, 'no evil coporate use without authors permission'
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00:45<twb>somiaj: that's what I was referring to, yeah
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03:09<twb>Why does "systemctl preset-all" create ctrl-alt-del.target → reboot.target.
03:09<twb>surely that's the default
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03:12<twb>On a system without that done, "systemctl status ctrl-alt-del.target" ==> (/lib/systemd/system/reboot.target; disabled; vendor preset: enabled)
03:12<twb>which is confusing and weird
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03:24<tarzeau>someone else missing /etc/inittab i guess
03:25<tarzeau>if only systemd + reboot was reliable i wouldn't have to resort to sysrq rebooting
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03:34<somiaj>I don't have /etc/inittab, but it isn't used with systemd
03:35<somiaj>It might be generated if you install sysvinit stuff?
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03:42<scorpion2185[m]>is there a standard for icons folder? It seems that usually distros have: usr/share/icons and there are some in /usr/share/pixmaps but only for a few apps.
03:42<scorpion2185[m]>.desktop files can read icon without full path, is there some standard?
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03:44<umlaeute>scorpion2185[m]: it's defined in https://specifications.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-latest.html
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03:46<scorpion2185[m]>is $XDG_DATA_DIRS/icons usr/share/icons?
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03:47<twb>scorpion2185[m]: that sounds about right
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03:47<scorpion2185[m]>good, and so is that the standard of .desktop files?
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03:48<umlaeute>scorpion2185[m]: yes, this is the standard for .desktop files
03:49<umlaeute>and XDG_DATA_DIRS is define in https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
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04:12<scorpion2185[m]>thanks
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06:33<SanchoPiensa>Hey guys!
06:33<SanchoPiensa>I am looking to set up a web-based calender for goups, that should provide only very basic funcions: user-registration, email-remindes on event-creation, and event-subscription/confirmation
06:34<SanchoPiensa>so far I have found webcalender by k5n, which has a pretty "heavy-duty" setup and config.
06:34<SanchoPiensa>can you please propose some alternatives?
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06:40<will0w>SanchoPiensa: i think nextcloud has a group calendar feature
06:41<SanchoPiensa>will0w: thank you, will look into it!
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06:44<will0w> 'apt-cache search calendar' might give you more ideas. there are a few groupware-related solutions.
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06:49<SanchoPiensa>will0w: holy cow, that nextcloud solution is really powerful... while it is completely over the top for my purpose, I am considering to install it still, just becaused I am so amazed by the many useful modules!
06:50<bentham>Yes, Nextcloud is very nice. But as far as I know there is still no deb for the Nextcloud server.
06:51<bentham>And the only way to get it is to install it by hand using the instructions on the Nextcloud site.
06:51<SanchoPiensa>will0w: apt-cache search calendar returns 471 lines, which is why I thought, I'd ask you guys! :D
06:51<bentham>I wish that it were in Debian.
06:51<SanchoPiensa>bentham: seems to be in Ubuntu, though, so should basically not be a problem?
06:52<bentham>!ubuntu
06:52<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on irc.libera.chat instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
06:52<bentham>It is not compatible.
06:52<bentham>Maybe it is close. If so it should be easy to maintain it for Debian.
06:52<SanchoPiensa>bentham: for the better part Ubuntu packages are Debian compatible in my experience, have you tried?
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06:53<bentham>SanchoPiensa: In my experience they break things.
06:53<bentham>!frankendebian
06:53<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian and <reinstall>
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06:55<SanchoPiensa>bentham: I havent't had that experience, but that might also be due to the fact, that I basically don't shy back from the effort of installing things manually on debian. That is, IF the effort is worth the benefits.
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06:55<SanchoPiensa>For my purpose I was basically hoping for a more light weight solution...
06:56<bentham>Your use of the word 'shy' suggests that the rest of us are somehow timid. We are not. But many of us are short on time and patience, particularly when things break as a result of misaligned expectations.
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06:57<SanchoPiensa>which is exactly, why I was looking for a more light weight solution with a more automatized setup routine.
06:57<bentham>Indeed, someone should package and maintain it for Debian.
06:58<will0w>SanchoPiensa: what's wrong with installing from the nextcloud repo?
06:58<bentham>Otherwise, your best bet is probably to build it yourself and make sure it lands in /opt or /usr/local, and so on.
06:58<SanchoPiensa>As said, basically I need only the above mentioned three functionalities, meaning nextcloud for my purpose is shooting sparrows with canon, as we say in my native language.
06:58<SanchoPiensa>will0w: absolutely nothing! :)
06:59<bentham>will0w: what is the 'nextcloud repo'? Are they packaging it for Debian now?
06:59<will0w>bentham: nextcloud has a deb repo
06:59<bentham>Oh, cool!
06:59<bentham>I guess that is new.
07:00<bentham>I assume this is built for Debian, not Ubuntu.
07:00<bentham>It would be even better if it were part of Debian, of course.
07:01<will0w>here is more info including another repo: https://wiki.debian.org/Nextcloud
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07:04<SanchoPiensa>will0w: geeez... you have me junked on already! :D
07:04*SanchoPiensa scheduling nextcloud setup party
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07:05<bentham>SanchoPiensa: We could use your help making this more mainstream
07:05<SanchoPiensa>bentham: how so?
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07:06<SanchoPiensa>bentham: if by that you mean, me building deb packages, I have to say, I am sorry, but I really don't have the spare time for such an enterprise...
07:07<bentham>SanchoPiensa: It might involve that, but it might also involve helping us align with the Nextcloud team.
07:07<bentham>For example, on releases:
07:07<bentham>Currently, Nextcloud server operators generally expect to do updates directly from Nextcloud; presumably we would want to be able to update them via Debian instead.
07:08<SanchoPiensa>bentham: which of course makes sense.
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07:08<bentham>And that would probably mean using the Fasttrack repository or similar.
07:08<SanchoPiensa>bentham: mhm, I see.
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07:09<SanchoPiensa>I can offer the following proposition: I will install nextcloud somewhen during next week, in order to comprehend, what precisely we are even talking about.
07:09<bentham>You should be aware that web browsers such as Firefox are updated via a process that constitutes an exception to the usual Debian procedures for pushing updates to stable.
07:09<SanchoPiensa>after that I will be back to you about how I can assist you.
07:09<bentham>SanchoPiensa: Excellent! That would be really great.
07:10<bentham>That wiki page will0w sent has many areas of vagueness; it would be nice to nail them down better, even before we start making patches and packages.
07:10<SanchoPiensa>bentham: I am "somewhat" aware of that, but not familiar with the details. yet.
07:11<SanchoPiensa>bentham: I see. I will have to work my way into those vague areas too...
07:11<bentham>You should understand that process, and how Fasttrack works, so that we can figure out what our plan for Nextcloud ought to be.
07:11<bentham>Currently it seems really unclear. I would love to learn that I am wrong.
07:11<SanchoPiensa>bentham: all right. But first things first.
07:11<bentham>SanchoPiensa: of course.
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07:12<SanchoPiensa>Ok, Ladies and Gents, in this case, I thank you very much for your help, as always very much appreciated, and if all goes well, we will be reading each other by the end of next week!
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07:19<will0w>yeah the wiki page looks outdated
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07:33<hizibiz>hi can someone point me to current documentation to configure mrtg on bookworm
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07:40<Anarka>is mrtg still being developed ? tough it was replaces by rrdtool a lot of years ago
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07:43<hizibiz>@amraka the package is still in repo for bullseye and bookworm
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07:45<Anarka>yeah i see it has gotten a few updates on the last coupl of years
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07:51<grove>It's been more than 15 years since I touched those oieces of software, but as I remember it rrdtool and mrtg solved very different tasks and could be used together - rather than rrdtool replacing mrtg
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08:25<Seveas>correct
08:26<Seveas>rrdtool is the bit that maintains the data files (and I believe generates the pictures), mrtg is the network checker that uses rrdtool to store data
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08:27<Seveas>it's been a while since I used them as well. Not quite 15 years though :)
08:27<Seveas>these days it's all about datadog
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09:03<eugenmayer>what is the current take on the cloud images with hyperviros like proxmox? i see the debians cloud images are using predictable network names while i see that the cloud init network drive uses eth0/eth1 in proxmox. What are you guys doing, modifying the configuration in the cloud drive manually or rather changing the boot to ifnames=0
09:04<bremner>I guess you'll need to ask a more specialized channel about that.
09:04<bremner>is there #debian-cloud ?
09:04<eugenmayer>interesting, yes there is. moving there (sorry was not aware)
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10:08<Deha>Hi How can I change a administrator to a normal user?
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10:09<Sqrt{not}>deha, how did you create that administrator?
10:10<Deha>with useradd
10:11<Deha>I have two administrator (sudoer) and one i want to change it to a normal user.
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10:12<bremner>what does "administrator" mean here? uid 0?
10:12<bremner>or just in sudoers?
10:14<Deha>a adminstrator is who have root rights
10:15<Sqrt{not}>Deha, do they only have root rights via the "sudo" command?
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10:15<Deha>yes i want to have a user who can not use sudo.
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10:16<Tj>Deha: use deluser. See "man deluser" first. "If called with two non-option arguments, deluser will remove a user from a specific group"
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10:16<Deha>ok i will look
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10:16<Deha>thnaks
10:16<Deha>thanks
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10:24<SoundWave>I got disconnected
10:25<SoundWave>I'm running vboxconfig on my UEFI/SecureBoot device, and get an 'modeprobe vboxdrv failed', and dmesg give's me 'unsigned module loading is restricting'. But manually signing without errors is possible but then a manual modprobe retruns error 'module not found in directory'
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10:48<SoundWave>Ok. I did not properly enroll the key with the MokManager
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11:41<scorpion2185[m]>CAn I bind a key to "run" from "menu" and "menu" itself of lxpanel?
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12:43<hendursaga>ethtool is showing MDI-X: Unknown - does that mean MDI-X is NOT supported by my card or that it's just not known and it's possible it does?
12:44<sney>I would guess the latter but I've never seen that message
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12:49<hendursaga>well, the card on the other machine (I'm trying to bridge) has no MDI-X message whatsoever..
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12:50<sney>what's the nic model/driver of the one showing that mdi-x message?
12:50<hendursaga>time to hunt down a crossover...
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12:52<rockworld>hi does anyone expect same problem then me when trying to do apt update
12:52<rockworld>I have Temporary failure resolving
12:53<sney>!your screen
12:53<dpkg>Your screen is in front of your face. #debian cannot see it. Please give as many details as you can about the problem. It wastes our time and yours when we have to guess what is on your screen. See <context>, <what>
12:54<hendursaga>sney: do I use lshw or something for that?
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12:55<sney>hendursaga: that should show it, or 'lspci -k'
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12:56<hendursaga>sney: RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller
12:56<hendursaga>using r8169 kernel driver
12:56<sney>ok. yeah that supports mdi-x
12:56<sney>ethtool is probably just unable to determine the state, does it have a cable connected?
12:57<hendursaga>I connected a straight-through, yes
12:57<sney>do you see status leds?
12:57<hendursaga>Sadly I don't have LEDs it appears
12:57<sney>like they're not on, or they don't exist
12:58<hendursaga>don't exist..?!
12:58<hendursaga>I don't ever recall seeing them on
12:59<sney>hm. probably a cost cutting decision.
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12:59<sney>what's the rest of the ethtool output? you can share in a pastebin
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13:00<hendursaga>https://dpaste.org/SkZB
13:00<sney>speed/duplex also showing unknown makes me wonder if this is a bad cable, or one of those cheap ones that only has 2 pairs
13:01<rockworld>does anycan test apt update if it work cause I changed the mirror to a new mirror and I got same issue
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13:01<sney>rockworld: as the bot suggested to you, we can only help if you show the actual output from your screen
13:01<blast007>rockworld: is your DNS server down?
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13:02<rockworld>blast007: dns is not down I pinged to
13:03<blast007>pinged to what?
13:03<rockworld>to the dns ip I have in /etc/resolv.conf
13:03<rockworld>ping 1.1.1.1
13:03<blast007>can you ping to google.com or similar site?
13:04<blast007>(or nslookup/host lookup)
13:04<rockworld>you are right thats a dns problem
13:04<rockworld>I tryed ping google.com
13:04<rockworld>ping: google.com: Temporary failure in name resolution
13:06<rockworld>I think thats the fact I installed wireguard did something wrong there
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13:13<rockworld>ok I found my error, when I removed wireguard it deleted my dns in debian config
13:13<CIA_SuperAgent>Hello
13:13<rockworld>hi
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13:19<hendursaga>sney: would it be easier if I just used a RPi 3 or 4?
13:21<sney>hendursaga: would what be easier? that doesn't sound related to the issue you asked about
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13:24<hendursaga>sney: I'm trying to share a WiFi connection to a machine where I cannot get WiFi on
13:25<sney>ah, linux router. no it'd probably be the same
13:25<sney>try different cables until you find one that works. maybe that r8169 variant doesn't have mdi-x support, maybe that's another way they cut costs for this model
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13:30<hendursaga>Making some progress.. https://dpaste.org/8B0N
13:31<hendursaga>How would I quickly TEST if my NIC had MDI-X support?
13:31<Tj>hendursaga: "ethtool"
13:32<hendursaga>Tj: that's what I've been doing, see paste, it shows Unknown
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13:34<Tj>sorry, colours here made that link hard to see
13:40<hendursaga>Yeah I think I'll see if my RPi 4 works for this
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14:14<scorpion2185[m]>CAn I bind a key to "run" from "menu" and "menu" itself of lxpanel?
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14:17<somiaj>hard to follow what you mean, you want a key to open a 'run' menu?
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14:17<somiaj>or are you talking about navigating the lxpanel menu with keys, and want to just have a key that while in the menu runs the currently selected item?
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14:38<Sk[8]lA>Hi Guys
14:38<Sk[8]lA>I got a question about Debian Unstable repo
14:39<sney>you should read the sid faq, https://deb.li/sidfaq
14:39<FelixActually>Sk[8]lA: You should ask questions about testing or unstable in #debian-next
14:39<Sk[8]lA>ok thanx, I'm heading there right now
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14:50<scorpion2185[m]>somiaj: run dialog "enter the command to execute and the "menu" item
14:51<scorpion2185[m]>run is in the menu
14:51<tuxd3v>you guys don't like newt toolkit?
14:52<bremner>uh. context?
14:52<tuxd3v>in another subject..
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14:52<tuxd3v>I am amazed by the ammount of dns resolutions my browser does, even before I open any webpage...is this normal?
14:53<somiaj>which browser?
14:53<bremner>browsers are terrible. pictuers at 11.
14:53<tuxd3v>I fire up Firefox esr, and tons of dns queries are imediatly done..
14:53<tuxd3v>this shouldn't be the behaviour of a browser..
14:54<tuxd3v>why the hell is does tons of dns queries even without me opening a single page?
14:54<sney>I believe mozilla's argument is that caching dns requests early makes the browsing experience faster
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14:55<tuxd3v>sney, in my opinion this is a security breach..
14:55<blast007>tuxd3v: are there any particular DNS queries you're concerned about, or...?
14:55<tuxd3v>blast007, there are not a particular, ... but tons of them :(
14:55<scorpion2185[m]>can I prevent xset to be reset ? if I use dmps to turn off screen and if I start a tty session
14:56<blast007>"tons"
14:56<tuxd3v>id there a way to setup firefox to tel him... hey, you will only do dns queries that matters.. or by other words the queries the user are using when he starts to navigate..?
14:57<tuxd3v>id -> Is
14:57<somiaj>You might have to go talk to mozzilla about this
14:57<sney>iirc the only dns configuration you can do in firefox is telling it how to query, and what server/protocol is ok
14:58<sney>(so if it only queries, for instance, your local router or dnsmasq instance then you can mitigate that further outside of the browser)
14:58<tuxd3v>like sney said probably they are doing random dns queries in advance, even me not using those sites, which encrieses my mently trafic account..
14:58<tuxd3v>montly
14:58<tuxd3v>monthly
14:59<tuxd3v>my Router works over 4G, and this crazy amount of data, I paid for it :(
14:59<sney>scorpion2185[m]: put your xset command in your startup scripts or .xsession or however you are starting X, if you want it to apply to the whole session
15:00<scorpion2185[m]>can I change the default behaviour?
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15:02<scorpion2185[m]>after the session is started I sometimes turn off the monitor that will reset xset
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15:04<sney>user preferences for X would be set in .xsession or however you are starting X, so, same answer
15:05<sney>there may be options you can pass to startx but the result would be the same as just running xset during startup
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15:06<scorpion2185[m]>everytimes that dpms is invoked xset is reset so .xsession is not enough
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15:09<scorpion2185[m]>do I need to recompile it?
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15:11<somiaj>what do you mean by everything dpms is invoked?
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15:12<scorpion2185[m]>every TIME
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15:13<scorpion2185[m]>I wrote it bad, each time that dpms is invoked all xset is reset
15:13<somiaj>sorry every time
15:13<somiaj>how is dpms being invoked?
15:13<scorpion2185[m]>xset dpms force off
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15:14<scorpion2185[m]>that's a problem. also I don't want to have something to load every time I want to change default values
15:14<scorpion2185[m]>xset dpms force off --> turn off screen
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15:17<somiaj>It looks like this is just the behavior of xset, that xset force off has to first enable dpms so it can turn it off
15:18<somiaj>also according to the manual page, you can set the timeout values to 0 to disable a praticular mode, this way you can still use dpms but not have it automatically trigger after some timeout
15:18<somiaj>using xset in your xsession is the common wayt to set these parameters, though I think you can also do this in the Monitor section of xorg.conf.d/ snippet
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15:33<will0w>even though i have 'DefaultTimeoutStopSec=25s' in /etc/systemd/system.conf i still get 'a stop job is running' during shutdown that lasts a long time
15:34<will0w>anyone else experience this?
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15:42<scorpion2185[m]>I trigger dpms to turn off screen
15:42<scorpion2185[m]>after xset is reset
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15:43<tertu>how would performance of btrfs in raid1 mode compare on spinning rust vs ext4?
15:43<scorpion2185[m]>not only dpms , everything the screensaver value all the values
15:44<tertu>as long as the answer is like "not too different if you make sure to do maintenance" that's good enough for me
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15:54<scorpion2185[m]>all default are 600. so if I change this will it be changed?
15:54<scorpion2185[m]>#define DEFAULT_ON (-50)
15:54<scorpion2185[m]>#define DEFAULT_TIMEOUT (-600)
15:55<scorpion2185[m]>xset.c file
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16:14<skiplevel1>jnk miku liyuj
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16:14<sussudio>drugs are bad mkay
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16:46<crab>hi all
16:46-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:5e87:9cff:fe0a:a66d] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:46<crab>if i have kernel version: 3.2.96-2 and i pin with: Pin: version 3.2+46
16:46<crab>will that attempt to downgrade my kernel during a dist-upgrade?
16:49<somiaj>why such an acient kernel? What version of debian are you running?
16:50<crab>well, that doesnt really actually answer the question, however,
16:50<crab>i am running wheezy on a linksys nslu2
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16:50-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
16:50<sney>if you pin a package version that you don't have installed, I would guess that apt will try to install that version if it's available from the sources
16:50<crab>i *believe* that jessie is *sort of* supported
16:50<sney>but you'd have to try, that's not really common usage so I doubt anyone will have an answer for you right away
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16:50<crab>but i tried this before, and the kernel / flash kernel / initramfs hosed it
16:51<crab>i found an interesting gist that describes pinning the kernel as described, and symlink the other two utils to /bin/true
16:51<somiaj>jessie is, that kernel is even older than jessie. But usually lts and elts end up backporting a newer kernel due to security fixxes.
16:51<crab>so im gonna give it a shot because wheezy is pretty unusable if you want to do stuff with ssl
16:51<crab>i dont think this arch has a more reliable kernel than what i am running.
16:51<crab>so i dont intend to upgrade the kernel.
16:51<crab>we are talking about a device with 32mb of ram. :)
16:52<sarnold>does 'pinning' or 'apt' even matter on a distro that's been unmaintained for so long?
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16:52<crab>if it gets to jessie
16:52<sney>sounds like you're really asking how to prevent kernel/initramfs hooks from running
16:52<crab>i believe that is elts for another 6 months?
16:52<crab>kind of...
16:52<sarnold>crab: ahhhh
16:52<crab>i think this pinning and the symlinking may do it
16:53<crab>but im not sure if it will try and downgrade
16:53<sney>if you don't want any kernel package upgrades you can remove the kernel metapackage, and then there will be no kernel changes attempted, period
16:53<sney>so remove linux-image-armhf or whatever it is
16:53<sney>but other things will sometimes try to update the initramfs or bootloader so those symlinks could help with that
16:53<crab>hmmm.
16:54<crab>that could be worth a try
16:54<crab>im gonna see what dist-upgrade suggests
16:54<crab>it takes so long i thought i would ask. :)
16:54<sney>pinning is an odd thing, it's a very specific system that can sometimes help with tricky situations, but there is often a simpler solution
16:54<sarnold>hehe
16:54<crab>yeah
16:54<crab>im making a horrible frankendebian
16:54<crab>i am aware of that
16:55<crab>but its realistically either gonna make the device unbootable
16:55<sney>it doesn't really sound like you are, unless there's something else you haven't mentioned
16:55<crab>or i should end up with a fairly minimal jessie and just an ancient kernel...
16:55<crab>(and some interesting flash-kernel / initramfs binaries...)
16:55<sney>that's pretty normal on embedded hardware
16:55<crab>:)
16:56<crab>yeah im pretty experienced with these little dudes.
16:56<crab>believe it or not i used to run postfix / apache on them back in the day!
16:56<somiaj>You will eventaully not be able to upgrade due to newer glibc and systemd requrining a newer kernel, so maybe jessie is about the lastest you can upgrade too, though I forget if there was a minimial kernel there due to glibc.
16:56<somiaj>the old release notes will let you know about such issues I belive.
16:57<crab>i dont think that you can go further than jessie which is kind of sad in an era of a dying planet
16:57<crab>but i dont begrudge devs not wanting to maintain an arch with 32mb of ram
16:57<crab>:)
16:57<somiaj>yea looks like jessie introudced systemd, so you may need to stick with sysv
16:57<sney>linux support for old/oddball hardware is best effort, it's usually pretty good, but eventually everyone has to switch to netbsd if the device still works
16:57<somiaj>I don't think systemd will run on a 3.2 kernel
16:57<crab>netbsd seems even worse supported
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16:58<crab>and may require soldering a serial port ;/
16:58<sney>wow
16:58<crab>i may be wrong about that
16:58<crab>but thats my gut feeling anyway.
16:59<sarnold>I heard a while back that linux has wider device support than netbsd these days
16:59<Habbie>somiaj, i read that and thought 'but even centos 7 has systemd' but centos 7 is on 3.10+a ton of patches
17:00<somiaj>Habbie: my memory could be failing me, kinda forget which release forced a kernel upgrade due to glibc or systemd.
17:00<Habbie>i don't know either
17:01<aloo_shu>gotta love breaking changes
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17:04<sarnold>I've learned several times how to check the glibc for the minimum kernel version. it seemed easy enuogh to remember every time.
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17:08<crab>i am attempting the dist-upgrade
17:09<crab>this will never work :)
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18:20<tuxd3v>hello guys, on Mate Desktop,
18:20<tuxd3v>/usr/bin/mate-volume-control-status-icon is crashing a lot
18:20<somiaj>is this on debian stable?
18:20<tuxd3v>when I am conected to bluetooth
18:20<tuxd3v>yes
18:21<somiaj>hmm, see various bugs about this crashing
18:22<intr0>Hey guys, long story short, I was trying to download a package on debian 10 via wget but the cert looked expired - after a double check with the community we figured out that it was not, and the issue was the expired "mozilla/DST_Root_CA_X3.crt" on /etc/ca-certificates
18:22<intr0>have you ever heard about similar issues?
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18:22<tuxd3v>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d82dd7a1/
18:23<tuxd3v>Calling gtk_widget_realize() on a widget that isn't inside a toplevel window is not going to work very well. Widgets must be inside a toplevel container before realizing them.
18:23<somiaj>tuxd3v: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=971783 seems you are not alone, but the maintainer doesn't have the time/know the issue. They are going to see if the issue is in 1.26.x, and then try to backport a fix if it was fixed
18:23<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/971783 in mate-media (open): «mate-media: volume-control-applet dies often»; severity: normal; opened: 2020-10-07; last modified: 2021-09-23.
18:23<sarnold>intr0: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995432 etc
18:24<somiaj>intr0: dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates can be used to update certs and fixes this issue in some cases
18:24<somiaj>but this issue has been a bit wide spread do to lets-encrypt roots cert expiring
18:25<tuxd3v>somiaj, judd , yeah I am on Mate 1.24, in oldstable this doesn't happened, at least I think, never saw it crashing there..
18:25<intr0>I tried with "dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates" but it did'nt solve the issue. The solution was to comment out that cert from the conf file
18:26<somiaj>intr0: yea appears to be an issue with 1.24, but so far no one has dug down and located the cause and made a patch, so unless someone does that you may just have to live with this.
18:26<intr0>sarnold, thanks for the link
18:26<somiaj>tuxd3v: ^^
18:26<tuxd3v>but If I use bluetooth phones, more often, then when I try to pass the mouse button above the icom in the panel, is sudenly crashs some times...
18:27<tuxd3v>I need to launch it is a shell, and when it crashed I just..relanch it :)
18:27<somiaj>intr0: another solution, though maybe not the best one, is use another tool, I use pasystray, which is a pulseaudio volume control applet that will live in your systray
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18:28<intr0>I think it's a username mismatch :)
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18:29<somiaj>intr0: arg, what I get for trying to talk to two people at once
18:29<somiaj>tuxd3v: ^^
18:29<intr0>lol :D
18:29<tuxd3v>:)
18:29<tuxd3v>many thanks
18:31<somiaj>intr0: I think you can also unselect the offending cert with dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates, but my experience here is that works for some and not for others.
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18:39<intr0>yeah, basically comment it out on /etc.ca-certificates and deselect it from dpkg-reconfigure seem having the same (positive) result
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19:25<r4fkramer>Hi all. Please, I would like any suggestions for a non-VLC multimedia app, and a non-rhythbox, audacious or clementine audio player for Gnome DE.
19:25<r4fkramer>Suggestion for a friend who is migrating from Ubuntu to Debian Bullseye, but who doesn't give up GNOME as DE.
19:26<r4fkramer>As I always use Mate, KDE Plasma and LXQt, I really don't know how to suggest him.
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19:41<FelixActually>r4fkramer: How about mpv?
19:43<r4fkramer>Fine FelixActually, I can accept suggestions, for I only use VLC and audacious here. Does mpv use streaming resource ?
19:44<FelixActually>r4fkramer: What do you mean by "streaming resource"?
19:45<sney>what's wrong with recommending VLC?
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19:46<r4fkramer>FelixActually, imprecise english here. Sorry. When you insert a URL to play videos from YouTube or TV by Internet, for example.
19:47<r4fkramer>sney, only desire to explore and knowing other VLC, SMplayer or gnome-videos alternatives
19:48<Brigo_>r4fkramer, from the man page it looks like it supports URLs and playlists at least.
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19:48<r4fkramer>Fine Brigo_. Do you refer about mpv ?
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19:50<Brigo_>r4fkramer, yes, the only thing i use.
19:51<r4fkramer>Fine Brigo_ that's the main resource needed for the new alternative. Thank You very much for attention :)
19:52-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
19:52<Brigo_>r4fkramer, it is a comman line program. There is a graphic version called celluloid witch i have installed but have never used.
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19:59<r4fkramer>Ok Brigo_. I will explore this alternative and suggest him too. Personally I never used it. Thank You :)
20:00<sarnold>I mostly use mplayer for videos and streaming stuff, but that might just be out of habit. I keep hearing mpv should be better
20:01<r4fkramer>Please sarnold, is 'mplayer' a command line app ? I oly use VLC and smplayer here.
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20:04<sarnold>r4fkramer: yes, mplayer's a command line tool
20:04<sarnold>there might be wrappers for it somewhere, I'm not sure
20:07<r4fkramer>Fine sarnold. By the way, do you have any suggestion for any good browser for Gnome DE that's not firefox, konqueror, chromium and opera ?
20:11<sarnold>r4fkramer: hah, that doesn't leave many choices :) I think you're left with brave and surf
20:12<r4fkramer>Yes, sarnold, in fact :)
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20:34<aloo_shu>qupzilla still around?
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22:26<handsome_feng>Hi, I'm not a native speaker of English, I saw that "The project name is pronounced Deb'-ee-en, with a short e in Deb, and emphasis on the first syllable." in debian-faq, which confuses me, Doesn't the ' after "Deb" means emphasis on 'ee' which is the second syllable?
22:29<sney>I'm not sure what notation is used on that page, but the emphasis is on the first syllable
22:29<mason>handsome_feng: Pretty sure it indicates first syllable stressed.
22:30<hanasaki>what's in Deb that can be used as a python IDE?
22:30<sney>nano
22:30<sarnold>heh
22:30<sney>but surely many other things too :)
22:31<hanasaki>sney: unnn something with breakpoints and var inspectin etc
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22:32<sarnold>handsome_feng_: the english 'debian' on this page is pretty close to how I say it, I think: https://forvo.com/word/debian/#en
22:32<sarnold>handsome_feng_: you may have missed: < sney> I'm not sure what notation is used on that page, but the emphasis is on the first syllable < mason> handsome_feng: Pretty sure it indicates first syllable stressed.
22:32<mason>sarnold: That sounds like Dibian to my ear.
22:32<sarnold>mason: yeah, she's from new zealand
22:33<sarnold>you know, if you want to cook an omlete you have to brick some iggs
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22:33<mason>Ooooooohhhhh..... https://youtu.be/IIE7UQJd4PQ
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22:34<mason>I think I need to save that.
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22:34<handsome_feng_>sarnold, mason: Thanks, Got it, :)
22:34<mason>handsome_feng_: Don't take what I linked as authoritative. It's almost comedic. What sarnold linked is closer to correct.
22:35<sarnold>mason: lol love it, he pronounces 'linux' 'linux', and then 'debian' 'debian'. hilarious :)
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22:35<handsome_feng_>mason, OK, Just about to click in
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22:36<mason>handsome_feng_: This is the most typical pronunciation: https://youtu.be/edzyMIY-H9w (seriously this time)
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22:40<handsome_feng_>I think I'm confident enough to talk to people about Debian now, :D
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22:44<sarnold>hah, a text-to-speech thing actually got it best out of all the examples so far. too bad it's only in there twice..
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22:56<joe_>Hi everyone, every now and again (not always) after coming back from suspend, my keyboard doesn't work on my laptop, the keypad does and so does the mouse, but I'm forced to reset to solve the issue. Any help please as to the steps I could take to investigate would be much appriciated!
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23:33<joe_>https://paste.debian.net/1216461
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23:40<Sqrt{not}>joe_, is that "Linux 5.10.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.70-1 (2021-09-30) x86_64 GNU/Linux" a standard Debian 11 kernel?
23:41<joe_>Sqrt{not}: yes
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 23 00:00:32 2021