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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-23

---Logopened Sat Oct 23 00:00:32 2021
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00:24<resc_056_10726>http://paste.debian.net/1216464/
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02:17<aduialthin[m]>In cal, how can I highlight today? Or in ncal how can I change the layout (day starts from the top left to down left) to cal's style (top left to top right)?
02:18<aduialthin[m]>Is this `cal | grep --color -EC6 "\b$(date +%e | sed "s/ //g")"` the only way to achieve the effect?
02:19<will0w> ncal -C ?
02:20<will0w>current day is highlighted for me in both ncal and cal
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02:29<aloo_shu>busybox cal doesn't have the highlight
02:30<aloo_shu>cal -h and it would reveal itself as busybox if it is
02:32<will0w>aloo_shu: sorry you are right. only ncal or ncal -C has the highlight
02:34<will0w>on my system 'cal' is actually a shell script that runs printf "\n$DATE\n\n" >> $CALENDAR and vim + $CALENDAR + it's basically a journal application
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02:38<aloo_shu>on my debian-like system, /usr/bin/cal is a symlink to /usr/bin/ncal,which willjust behave alittledifferently when called as cal - on the other ones, it's busybox provided, and on termux,there's a calthatis a binary in its own right (and has the highlight)
02:39<aloo_shu>only busybox doesnt have it - for me
02:40<aloo_shu>this space bar s***s
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02:52<DangerousDuck>hi folks, I'm looking for help with iwd connecting to my wifi. It connects fine and gets an IP through DHCP, but I want to set a static IP. I've set the conf files but I'm still getting a dynamic IP. Any suggestions?
02:55<DangerousDuck>I'm on bullseye with the latest updates BTW
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02:56<will0w>DangerousDuck: you can use the network configuration tool of your desktop environment to configure it
02:57<will0w>you can also configure it on the access point itself which is what i recommend
02:57<DangerousDuck>will0w thanks. i am running it headless actually. and connman (lxqt) didn't list the wireless networks for some reason.
02:57<DangerousDuck>my access point sucks, I tried doing that but no go. :(
02:58<will0w>it would be very surprising if the AP doesn't have the ability to assign static IPs.
02:58<DangerousDuck>It turns out IWD uses /etc/network/interfaces as well. Or at least in my case, it's doing so, despite being told not to. Adding a static IP there the usual way has done the trick. Cheers!
02:59<DangerousDuck>yeah it's a crappy ISP branded fiber modem-router combo. I want to get a decent router compatible with 3rd party firmware. My WRT54GL isn't cutting it anymore :P
03:02<will0w>usually it's under LAN settings
03:02<DangerousDuck>used to use Gentoo at work. But then everyone made fun of me, not just Johnathan the project manager but even the Ubunteens on my team. Angry at this, I decided to lift heavy weights each evening instead of working on my side project. I built up so much rage that one day I decided to hackintosh. I went into work, and without hesitation I wiped my
03:02<DangerousDuck>Gentoo installation. I didn't even make sure my code was all pushed before I did it.
03:03<will0w>something like "static ip lease list"
03:03<will0w>if the backend is NetworkManager you can use nmcli to configure and connect to APs
03:03<will0w>putting it in /etc/network/interfaces would be a pain every time you switch APs
03:05<will0w>on one of my systems i use systemd-networkd for wireless along with wpagui and it works well
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03:06<will0w>i would use NetworkManager/nmcli in a headless situation
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03:06<DangerousDuck>IWD works remarkably well, apparently it is a complete replacement for wpa_supplicant
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03:09<will0w>it looks pretty cool. i see it's hosted at kernel.org
03:11<aloo_shu>I'm having cases where I want to set the static IP client side. buggy public wifi where I don't control the router. androidAP.
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04:21<Tj>note: IWD isn't a complete replacement for wpa_supplicant. I was recently investigating it. It cannot do master mode (AP) for 802.11a* and AP support is extremely basic and non-configurable (compared to wpa_supplicant and hostapd)
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05:03<calimos5>Hi! How can I change the menu entry order in GRUB (not boot order)? E.g. "System setup" as first entry, then Debian, then other OSes. I understand how the menu entry list is generated (/boot/grub/grub.cfg | grep menu) but don't know where to configure it differently
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05:10<Guest3834>calimos5… you don't edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg directly... look in /etc/grub.d/40_custom
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05:27<calimos5>Guest3834: Thank you - can I just change the number prefixes of the files in there to achieve a different menu item sorting? So rename 30_uefi_firmware to 08_uefi_firmware to have the "System menu" entry on top? Or should I not mess with the filename
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05:32<Guest3834>oh you want to change the order not add entries, i misread
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05:36<calimos5>yes. /boot/grub/grub.cfg states that I should not work on this file, as it is generated from /etc/default/grub and /etc/grub.d. To that file seems to add the menu entries based on the number prefix names of files inside /etc/grub.d
05:39<calimos5>Is there a way to tell which Debian files it is okay to modify/rename/delete without unwanted side effects (needed by other programs, get overwritten on updates etc)?
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05:42<Guest3834>i dont feel comfortable to tell you tat yes you can rename those files.... it is related to the order of processing them and outputted grub.cfg
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05:46<calimos5>Okay, thank you anyway. I copied 030_uefi_firmware to 08_uefi_firmware and indeed, I do have that "System setup" menu entry now on top in GRUB (as well as on the bottom). I checked that the first entry works, it loads UEFI firmware settings. I feel comfortable deleting 30_uefi_firmware now. Worst case scenario would be to rename the 08-file back to the original name
05:46<calimos5>So I have the solution i was asking for. Thank you Guest3834 :)
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06:03<Lisnet>Hi,
06:03<Lisnet>I want to upgrade my stable distribution to testing. I edited sourcelist with instruction from internet. It is at https://justpaste.it/1u2t5
06:03<Lisnet>Would you review it?
06:03<Lisnet>Do I need something chnage?
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06:04<Lisnet> I want to upgrade my stable distribution to testing. I edited sourcelist with instruction from internet. It is at https://justpaste.it/1u2t5 Would you review it? Do I need something chnage?
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06:05<petn-randall>!testing sources.list
06:05<dpkg>Using "testing" instead of the current codename (e.g. bookworm) in your sources.list isn't as bad as using stable in your sources.list; you will just seamlessly continue to track the "testing" distribution following a release. Note that for a few months just after a release, testing can be a pretty bumpy ride. See also <stable sources.list>, <bookworm sources.list>.
06:05<petn-randall>!bookworm sources.list
06:05<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "bookworm" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm/updates main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-updates main". Note that bookworm does not yet have security support and is a <moving target>. See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bookworm-security> <bookworm-updates> and "man sources.list"."
06:05<petn-randall>Lisnet: ^^^
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06:11<Lisnet>So, I need only three lines on my source.list and all will be works fine. Do I think well? I asked, because previous changing I made a mistake and I had to reinstall Debian from usb stick.
06:12<petn-randall>A wrong sources.list shouldn't force you to reinstall. Just fixing it in case of an error should be enough.
06:13<petn-randall>Lisnet: We usually also say in here that if you want to upgrade to testing, you shouldn't need to ask. Because testing is a release branch that isn't fit for release yet, meaning you'll need to work around bugs on your own every now and then.
06:14<petn-randall>Lisnet: Is the reason you want to upgrade because you need newer software? We also have stable-backports for that, which allows you to use newer software without the other issues that testing has.
06:14<Lisnet>I know it that testing would have some bugs
06:15<Lisnet>I need latest swoftware. Previus my problem was, becouse KDE connect was very old and some other software
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06:18<Lisnet>Is possible change backports for all software ? I want not do it for each deb
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06:21<at0m>Lisnet: you realize there will be tougher issues and bugs to work with compared to this one, when going for testing, right? same with backports, that's why one would usually limit the packages that one requires some new feature of. that limits the other issues, which will only become apparent once one is running the newer less stable packages
06:21<at0m>if this already is an issue, we'll see lots more of you in #debian-next soon =)
06:23<Lisnet>Yes, I know
06:23<at0m>nothing can stop you from pinning backports as higher priority than the stable repo.
06:23<at0m>have fun
06:23<at0m>!bpo
06:23<dpkg>backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <bullseye backports>) and oldstable (<buster backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>.
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06:24<at0m>for all those <factoids>, /msg dpkg $factoid
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07:07<marcello42>Lisnet, do you need specific up to date software? perhaps flatpak or snaps could be a good choice, if you need basically everything bleeding edge, perhaps such a stable distribution as debian might not be the right choice at all
07:10<marcello42>I only run debian on my servers
07:10<at0m>long as it's stable, bleeding edge and has best packaging system like debian. oh. can only pick 2 of the 3. duh.
07:10<at0m>not even.
07:11<marcello42>haha yea ;)
07:11<marcello42>I feel like a firefighter with my arch installation
07:12<at0m>marcello42: probably why i stick to debian stable these days =)
07:12<at0m>work with the computers, instead of maintaining and troubleshooting
07:12<marcello42>at0m, sure I only have on arch installation rest is debian :) ..but I'd love to see colemak dhm as a keyboard layout coming to debian
07:13<marcello42>I still haven't figured out how to create and install a custom keyboard layout
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10:36<user01>if i get a mesh system that says it supports wpa3, can i use it with debian, or more dependent on the device i am using?
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10:52<marcello42>is it possible to have an installation medium for a complete headless install so the installer automatically starts up with an ssh server in expert mode without need to open the ssh server within the installer (which makes it not as useful as it could be)
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11:35<azeem>great, after the update to bullseye, my T470 suggested to update the firmware, and then did
11:35<azeem>not so great: it now boots back into Windows...
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11:36<mero>hello
11:36<rudi_s>UEFI? Then you might be able to switch the boot order in the BIOS. Otherwise boot a rescue system (e.g. netinstall from USB) and reinstall grub.
11:36<rudi_s>azeem: ^
11:37<azeem>I haven't found something in the F12 Temporary Startup Device at least, but will look in the BIOS
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11:39<dreamer>uhg. ever since 10->11 my fav ui filebrowser (pcmanfm) can no longer mount disks. super annoying
11:39<dreamer>rather, I don't even see any mountable disks any more
11:39<dreamer>some dependency that got dropped?
11:40<dreamer>any ideas what I might be missing?
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11:56<Guest3866>hi
11:56<Guest3866>hi
11:56<bremner>dpkg: tell Guest3866 about ask
11:56-!-tizef [~tizef@202.153.80.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:56<bremner>dreamer: is your system running udisks2 ?
11:56<Guest3866>HAHAHA :)
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11:57<Guest3866>goodbye
11:57<Guest3866>:)
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11:58<Human_G33k>hello
11:58<Human_G33k>there is a way to install debian with the installer on a new disk plug in running debian ? 
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11:59<Human_G33k>something like chroot i guess ?
11:59<bremner>!debootstrap
11:59<dpkg>debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap - https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/apds03.en.html
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12:00<Human_G33k>bremner: i will need to install lvm and cryptsetup do you think debootstrap will work ? 
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12:01<bremner>probably not. Did you look at calamares?
12:01<Human_G33k>(command need to be upgrade ?)
12:01<Human_G33k>no
12:01<Human_G33k>but i know by name
12:02<dreamer>bremner: yes it is
12:02<dreamer>root 1143 0.0 0.0 394556 14056 ? Ssl Oct18 0:45 /usr/libexec/udisks2/udisksd
12:03<bremner>dreamer: can you see the device from udisksctl dump?
12:04<bremner>I'm only guessing that pcmanfm relies on udisks2; maybe it does something different
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12:07<bremner>actually, "uddisksctl status" is more useful output
12:07<dreamer>ah yes, slightly more concise :)
12:08<dreamer>hmmm, possibly I'll just have to start my wm with `exec dbus-launch fluxbox` ?
12:08<bremner>lots of "desktop-like" things depend on dbus, it's true
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12:12<artur>how is G?
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12:15<bremner>pardon?
12:16<artur>I new now
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12:17<artur>('m)
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12:20<ppc64>question, the nvcc CUDA compiler in "stable" no longer supports my older Quadro card. Is there a previous Debian "old stable" that is still available and can be installed ?
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12:22<ppc64>sorry .. never mind .. I found https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/archive/latest-oldstable/
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14:24<scorpion2185[m]>does conky disappear cause no compositor? what can I install on Openbox?
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15:13<apt_failed>Hi. I'm trying to install the new non-free image (need realtek driver) and it's getting stuck at "scanning mirrors". It eventually (15min +) shows an error screen saying there was a problem, but then if I click continue, the screen just goes black. Still have cursor, but nothing else. This has happened 3 times in a row now. What can I do?
15:14<apt_failed>Oh, just before the screen goes blank, after clicking continue, it shows another error, something about error configuring apt
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15:15<apt_failed>P.S. on each try, I tried a different mirror... first debian.org, then namecheap's mirror, then gatech's mirror
15:15<sney>apt_failed: ctrl-alt-f4 to get to the info console, is there a more detailed error?
15:15<somiaj>apt_failed: What exact .iso image are you using and how are you copying it to the usb drive?
15:15<apt_failed>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/
15:16<apt_failed>using Etcher on my mac to get iso onto usb
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15:16<apt_failed>At which point should I press ctrl+alt+f4, sney
15:16<somiaj>etcher might be the issue, though I belive it has a 'dd' mode that works.
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15:16<somiaj>also be careful there is a known malicous etcher version floating around too
15:16<somiaj>!etcher
15:16<dpkg>Etcher is not a reliable way to copy Debian images for installation. Instead, use cp or dd for linux or win32diskimager for Windows. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.en.html See <malicious etcher>
15:17<somiaj>!malicious etcher
15:17<dpkg>There has been a potentially malicious imitation of Balena Etcher distributed by an unknown actor on a .eu domain. Balena do not own this. Only get Etcher from balena.io/etcher. Verification welcome if the official version works or not, to keep !etcher from getting stale. See <etcher>.
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15:17<apt_failed>Got Etcher directly from https://www.balena.io/etcher/
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15:19<apt_failed>So scratch Etcher, and instead, format usb to fat then dd the iso. Got it.
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15:19<somiaj>tools like etcher have often had issues with debian .iso images and do strange things, so we just suggest not using them just be safe. Though the issue you describe isn't a common issue I've seen with using tools like etcher. Mac does allow you to just cp the image directly to the usb drive, though I forget how osX deals names its deveices
15:20<somiaj>this may not fix the issue, the other is checksum the image, make sure it isn't corrupt. Just standard things we suggest, could be some other issue though.
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15:20<sney>you also don't need to format anything, as the iso contains its own filesystem
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15:22<apt_failed>sha512 matches
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15:32<apt_failed>sney when should i press the ctrl+alt+f4?
15:32<sney>in the installer, when you see an error
15:32<apt_failed>I verified the sha512 checksum and rewrote the iso onto usb using dd
15:32<apt_failed>oh ok
15:35<somiaj>well hopefully that fixes your issue. Note the netinstall can install a base system without the network/mirrors, so you can probably get an install by avoiding the mirror stage, and then install software you need after your base system is installed
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15:52<EmleyMoor>Any recovery tools for OpenOffice Writer docs?
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15:54<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... AbiWord can read the offending file
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16:05<apt_failed>How do I install without mirrors?
16:05<apt_failed>Now it got past the configuring apt stage, only to fail at configuring software packages
16:06<apt_failed>pressed ctrl+alt+f4 and got a bunch of error messages, PCIe bus errors, and AER: can't find device of ID00e0, whatever that means
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16:06<sney>if you can share a screenshot of those errors, we can help to interpret them
16:06<apt_failed>can I get back to the gui after pressing ctrl+alt+f4 or what do I do now?
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16:07<apt_failed>I previously had CentOS on here, it had the same issues, tons of PCIe errors. It has something to do with the chipset or something. It's a Dell desktop with Skylake and there are apparently known issues with these.
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16:09<sney>alt-f1 will get you back to the installer interface, but the point of going to the error console was to get more information, not just assume you already know what it is
16:09<centrx>Anyone know about getting kernel 5.15 on Debian? (running testing) It has an audio driver I need
16:09<somiaj>apt_failed: do you have bios/firmware updates for that hardware?
16:10<apt_failed>BIOS was just updated with most recent available from Dell (released Feb 2021)
16:10<somiaj>centrx: first testing support is #debian-next, second you'll have to build your own kernel unless you wait, but the 5.15 kernel will make it to testing sometime
16:10<somiaj>but it won't happen until after 5.15 is actually released by upstream
16:11<centrx>It's unfortunate, should be in experimental
16:11<centrx>Is there a way to get the Debian kernel config settings from somewhere so I can compile it myself?
16:11<somiaj>I don't belive the kernel team considers new kernels until they are actually released
16:12<somiaj>yes, all debian kernel's configre are in /boot/config-version
16:12<somiaj>but more support in #debian-next, this is a stable support channel
16:12<apt_failed>Can't get back to GUI... "FBDEV(0): The fbdev driver didn't call xf86SetGamma() to initialise the gamma values." "FBDEV(0): PLEASE FIX THE `fbdev' DRIVER!"
16:14<centrx>somiaj: Thanks
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16:25<apt_failed>So now I finally got it to install on attempt #2 from the dd'd usb
16:26<apt_failed>... but it won't boot. Can't find bootable device. UEFI/secure boot is enabled, and the "debian" uefi option shows in BIOS, but it won't boot to it.
16:26<apt_failed>any ideas?
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16:27<raven523>disable secure boot
16:29<raven523>this would help if the UEFI bootloader somehow wasn't signed
16:30<apt_failed>secure boot disabled. no bootable devices found.
16:30<apt_failed>I'm sorry to be such a PITA. I haven't installed debian on bare metal in ages.
16:30<raven523>what happens when you try the debian uefi option?
16:30<apt_failed>It goes to this stupid Dell SupportAssist thing that scans the memory, etc., saying that no bootable device was found.
16:31<apt_failed>I checked the UEFI entry and it looks legit. Don't know how to confirm the uuid or whatever that long string is, but nothing looks "off"
16:31<raven523>it sounds like the bootloader might not have been installed correctly. Does the uuid match what you see in fdisk -l or blkid?
16:33<apt_failed>Is there a way to get to fdisk from the installer?
16:34<apt_failed>Or do I have to run a live image or something?
16:34<raven523>I don't remember. I haven't done a manual installation in a long time. But it should be possible if you can get a shell. There might also be someone else here who is more familiar with booting with UEFI
16:34<somiaj>the installer has a rescue mode
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16:50<apt_failed>ran rescue mode, got to a shell, tried workaround listed here: https://wiki.debian.org/UEFI#Quirks.2C_workarounds_and_special_UEFI_features_in_Debian_and_Debian-Installer
16:51<apt_failed>got error "EFI variables are not supported on this system.." -- anyone familiar with this?
16:51<raven523>it sounds like the ISO booted in legacy BIOS mode instead of UEFI mode
16:54<apt_failed>legacy is disabled entirely
16:54<apt_failed>I'm using F12 boot options to run the usb, and I am selecting the installer from the UEFI boot options
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17:18<apt_failed>So I've gone into the BIOS and created my own UEFI entry using the filesystem created by the installer on my harddrive. There are two directories in the EFI directory: boot and debian. the boot dir contains bootx64.efi and grubx64.efi. According to https://wiki.debian.org/UEFI the bootx64.efi should only be contained in removeable media. Why do I have both?
17:19<apt_failed>I tried both grubx64.efi and bootx64.efi (what is configured by default upon completion of the graphical installer), and neither will boot.
17:19<apt_failed>I've been going since 08:30 this morning. It's now 17:19 and I'm about to give up on Debian all together for this box.
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17:25<apt_failed>Ah, I see it originated here https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746662
17:25<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/746662 in grub-efi (closed, patch): «grub-efi: add install-time option to place grub-efi in removable media path»; severity: important; opened: 2014-05-02; last modified: 2021-06-24.
17:26<apt_failed>Not sure why that's still listed as a workaround in the quirks
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17:38<ElPresidente>For some reason, Debian Bullseye's firmwaer iso doesn't support my wireless card (iwlwifi), but I can get the firmware deb from sid and it works. Is this a good idea or is there something else I should try first?
17:41<sussudio>backports?
17:41<sussudio>,v iwlwifi
17:41<judd>No package named 'iwlwifi' was found in amd64.
17:42<sussudio>,v firmware-iwlwifi
17:42<judd>Package: firmware-iwlwifi on amd64 -- stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20210315-3~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20210315-3; bookworm/non-free: 20210818-1; sid/non-free: 20210818-1
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17:45<ElPresidente>The version in bullsye doesn't seem to recognize my wireless, at least not the one in 11.1
17:45<ElPresidente>which is strange considering my laptop is a 9360
17:46<Sqrt{not}>ElPresidente, is it the actual firmware blob that you need from sid, or something else?
17:46<Sqrt{not}>which .deb from sid makes the difference?
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17:47<ElPresidente>Sqrt{not}, https://packages.debian.org/sid/firmware-iwlwifi
17:47<ElPresidente>20210818-1
17:48<apt_failed>Tried reinstalling yet again, this time in expert mode, and was presented with the "buggy uefi" option. Went ahead with that, and this time it installed my UEFI option pointing to efi\debian\shimx64.efi, still no luck
17:49<Sqrt{not}>ElPresidente, that should be fairly safe, if everything else works with bullseye versions.
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17:50<ElPresidente>Sqrt{not}, I reckon somehow some iwl files slipped out between buster and bullsye versions, because iirc it worked on buster
17:51<Sqrt{not}>ElPresidente, hmmm, that IS strange. do you know which firmware file it is loading? (should be able to see it somewhere in dmesg)
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17:53<ElPresidente>Sqrt{not}, I'll let you know once I'm booted up
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18:03<apt_failed>Anyone here have any ideas?
18:06<mason>apt_failed: boot is the default/fallback location. You can also have per-vendor directories in your ESP(s)
18:08<mason>apt_failed: Debian's GRUB in UEFI is a but sprawling and can be tricky depending on what you're doing, but in general you want a boot variable pointing to a bit of GRUB (the shim probably) and that'll reach into your /boot for the rest of GRUB, and it'll grab your kernel an an initramfs from there and away you go.
18:09<mason>apt_failed: You can say 'efibootmgr -v' and match up UUIDs with blkid output to make sure things are pointed to the right partitions.
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18:35<apt_failed>gave up on UEFI and went with legacy mbr
18:35<apt_failed>installed and working first try :-(
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18:44<apt_failed>Okay now in dmesg I'm getting these weird errors I've never seen before, can anyone help point me in the right direction? https://paste.debian.net/hidden/81563c03/
18:46<apt_failed>Again it's been years since I've installed on bare metal. Is this normal with a cdrom drive?
18:46<mason>apt_failed: sr0 is your CD drive. Could be problematic. Maybe you just have a DVD in it or something.
18:47<mason>Also, legacy is fine. If your hardware supports it and you don't need SecureBoot, there's no huge reason not to use it.
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18:48<apt_failed>Man, I literally just spent 10 hours getting this thing running. It's an old Debian XPS 8900 (notorious for linux issues, see google) box I got back in 2013 on sale as I'm a veteran. I got two of them for $400/ea (reg. $1200/ea).
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18:50<apt_failed>Back then I ran Windows on everything, and only used linux on my servers. As soon as Windows 10 came out, I gave up and bought Apple-everything.. and now I'm trying to repurpose my old Windows boxes.
18:50<mason>Free software ought to give them several more years of life.
18:51<apt_failed>They both have 3.4GHz 6th gen core i7-6700 with 16GB DDR4, so I figured that's plenty of power to turn them into some local servers to throw in my closet
18:52<mason>Careful of heat and ventillation if they're in a closet.
18:52<apt_failed>I've got a dedicated portable A/C /dehumidifier keeping the closet at 68F
18:52<apt_failed>Far more concerning than these crap desktops are my two poweredge servers and synology rackstations haha
18:53<somiaj>might just be that hardware, you seem to be having quite a bunch of hardware compadaiblity issues.
18:54<apt_failed>I've got two Synology RS214's but they are junk. Huge waste of money. They constantly max out their CPUs and memory is a joke. Transferring files to them takes forever, and they often crash.
18:54<somiaj>as for your dvd/cd drive, if you aren't going to use it, you could just unlpug it
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18:54<apt_failed>somiaj yes, like I said, I knew that going into it. Google "xps 8900 linux". It's a laundry list.
18:54<mason>That kind of error message, make sure there isn't just a disc in it first. But yeah.
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18:55<apt_failed>It has a disc in it. An old photoshoot from when my wife was pregnant. Was hoping to convert this guy into my new fileserver to replace the synology junk.
18:55<mason>apt_failed: Boot without the disc and I bet the errors don't show up.
18:55<apt_failed>Would be nice to be able to pop old CD's and DVD's into it for backups
18:55<mason>You probably can.
18:56<apt_failed>I've just put two 8TB WD Red Plus drives in it. Any known issues with those/
18:56<apt_failed>?
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18:56<mason>apt_failed: Double check that they're not SMR before you use them WD got greedy with their Reds and shipped some SMR branded as WD Red.
18:57<mason>s/use them/rely on them./
18:57<apt_failed>Those are the Red. CMR are now "Red Plus"
18:57<mason>Ah, kk. No, they ought to be reliable then.
18:58<apt_failed>Interesting fact: WD was the only one to slip SMR into their NAS drives. Pricks.
18:58<apt_failed>So far, haven't seen SMR in any other manufacturer's NAS lineups
18:59<apt_failed>Thank you guys for the emotional support. I've been glued to this desk for 10-1/2 hours now and am going to take a coffee break.
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19:01<mason>apt_failed: happy to help
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19:03<apt_failed>Actually, one quick question that irritates the hell out of me
19:04<apt_failed>my network adapter registered as enp0s31f6. I don't recall when this changed from "eth1" but I hate it. Can I rename it?
19:09<somiaj>you can, but I would just use that name
19:09<somiaj>https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
19:09<somiaj>!disable persistent interface naming
19:09<dpkg>Persistent naming of network interfaces (ask me about <udev mac>) is a recommended Debian system default, but this can be disabled. For Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" and later releases: «touch /etc/udev/rules.d/75-persistent-net-generator.rules && rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules».
19:09<somiaj>persistant is better (espically if you have multiple interfaces), because the names aren't just in order of discovery
19:10<somiaj>hmm, that factoid seems old/off
19:10<somiaj>!dpni
19:10<dpkg>To disable Predictable Network Interface naming and revert back to the old interface naming, run "ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/network/99-default.link" as root (without quotes). Creating this symbolic link prevents systemd from being able to change interface names. You will need to unplug/replug your device or reboot/reload module. Alternatively add net.ifnames=0 to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub then run update-grub and reboot.
19:11<somiaj>there that one seems more sane
19:13<dvs>or mess with udev...
19:13<apt_failed>So I can't rename that specific device?
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19:14<dvs>^^^
19:14<somiaj>apt_failed: that factoid will revert back to the old method, net.ifnames=0 should be fine, or the link
19:15<somiaj>dvs: does that still work, I thought with some recent release you can't rename with udev anymore, so 70-persistent-net.rules no longer works.
19:15<dvs>somiaj: it would have to be really, really recent but I'm still updating the kernel and it's still working.
19:15<apt_failed>At least on my VMs it is ens192
19:16<somiaj>dvs: maybe it was something that was reverted, or I misrember it, good to hear it still works.
19:16<apt_failed>I don't know where it came up with "enp0s31f6"
19:16<somiaj>apt_failed: yea, it is based on hardware, mine are things like enp4s0
19:16<somiaj>it is based on the bus/physical location of the device
19:16<apt_failed>Oh, gotcha
19:16<somiaj>so s31f6 means your firmware is calling the slot it is in 31f6
19:17<apt_failed>Out of curiosity sake, anyone here have experience with running a (home) fileserver?
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19:17<somiaj>users here do, I more run desktops, but in the end it should work just fine, provided you can get your hardware issues straighted out
19:17<apt_failed>I'm wondering if I should use LVM or just oldschool partitions...
19:18<somiaj>pros: lvm allows you to span multiple disks with single file systems, and resize/change partitions easier
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19:18<somiaj>cons: lvm adds another layer on top of your data, so data recovery is harder
19:18<apt_failed>Yeah, I use LVM on all my servers
19:18<apt_failed>^^ that
19:18<apt_failed>Data recovery is my concern, since it's going to be my home file server (i.e. family photos, really important stuff)
19:18<somiaj>pick the method which suits your needs best. I don't use lvm, but I have no need for its features, so no need to add the complixity layer for features I don't use.
19:19<somiaj>snapshots of volumes are also another nice feature, so backups
19:19<apt_failed>This box is intended to be the "backup" lol
19:19<apt_failed>Nothing worse than the backup failing, unless you can afford to backup the backup
19:20<somiaj>various backup philosophies. I like the 2 on site backups and one off site
19:20<somiaj>so 3 copies on site once you include the live data
19:21<somiaj>also depends on how much recovery you want, such as being able to recover a particular date of a file vs just the file
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19:27<artur>I will go, by nvidia
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19:38<shibboleth><apt_failed> I'm wondering if I should use LVM or just oldschool partitions...
19:38<shibboleth>errr
19:38<shibboleth>stop right there
19:38<shibboleth>btrfs or zfs
19:38<shibboleth>btrfs for sysdrive, zfs for deep storage
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20:09<xzcvczx>if a package is an upstream "rc" release in stable, is it likely to be upgraded to the released version in a point release? or is it more likely to stay as the rc?
20:11<somiaj>more likely to stay as the version in stable
20:11<somiaj>policy states things can't change, though if it does fix some bugs maybe, but really depends on what changes between the debian package and the final release
20:11<somiaj>well policy states fixes must be targeted and backported
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20:17<Guest3896>hello
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20:20<Guest3896>Coca MDMA #4 M30s - Free Worldwide Shipping - Paid Samples Available
20:20<Guest3896>wickr: cshungryeyes
20:20<xzcvczx>somiaj: ok, thank you
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20:24<Noisytoot>Why does the oidentd package conflict with biboumi?
20:24<Noisytoot>They both provide an identd, but biboumi's identd only works for biboumi and I would like to configure oidentd to forward requests to biboumi's identd
20:26<somiaj>because biboumi provides identd-server
20:26<somiaj>you might be able to find more info looking through the change logs
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20:32<Noisytoot>Is it possible to have both installed at once?
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21:02<dannyfritz>My Debian Testing install with KDE Plasma no longer can load my desktop. I login and a splash shows a spinning progress icon and never actually gets to a desktop. How do I debug this?
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21:04<cef>What's the best way to set a pulseaudio sink priority on bullseye. I've got a USB headset that, when available I want to be the default. Currently when I run `pactl list sinks` it shows up as priority 0, while the inbuilt stuff shows up as 9000/9900 (line, headphone). I'm assuming I need to somehow set a sink priority higher than 9900?
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21:05<cef>There's nothing in Gnome that seems to allow you to set the sink priority (at least by default), or I've not got it installed.
21:05<Sqrt{not}>dannyfritz, testing questions will get better answers on channel #debian-next
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21:09<ppc64>question : I have two system both /etc/debian_version is "11.1" but one of them has NVidia driver ver 460.91.03 and the other 418.197.02 and that seems wrong
21:09<ppc64>both systems should be the same .. right ?
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21:11<cef>ppc64: Depends how the nvidia driver was installed on each.
21:11<Sqrt{not}>cef, read the man page for pulse-daemon.conf
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21:12<cef>ppc64: Also might depend on the video card. Some of the older cards won't work with the newer drivers, tho I thought that was much older versions than those.
21:13<cef>Sqrt{not}: So no GUI stuff that might then mess up that. ok.
21:14<ppc64>cef: sorry .. I didn't know that the nvidia-driver metapackage did a detect on the hardware
21:14<ppc64>one machine says ii nvidia-driver 460.91.03-1
21:15-!-j_f-f [~quassel@mail2.snct-dialer.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:15<ppc64>the other says ii nvidia-driver 418.197.02-1
21:15<ppc64>seems very strange
21:15<cef>ppc64: I dunno if it does either. Are you sure one doesn't have external sources?
21:15<ppc64>however yes one of them is a Lenovo laptop with a "Quadro" chip in it
21:15<sney>the one with 418 was probably upgraded from buster and the nvidia-driver package was held somehow
21:15<ppc64>gee .. let me check /etc/apt/sources.list
21:16<ppc64>they are slightly different
21:17<ppc64>one says " deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main " the other has "bullseye main non-free contrib" on the line
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21:18-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #debconf18-taiwan #debian #debconf-miniauditorio #debian-xfce #debian-ubuntu #debian-games
21:18<ppc64>well, anyways, they both seem to work fine but one of them has a very diff driver version
21:19<ppc64>sorry for the dumb questions
21:19<Sqrt{not}>ppc64, some or all of that nvidia stuff is probably in non-free
21:20<Sqrt{not}>ppc64, is the one with the older driver the same one without non-free?
21:20<ppc64>yes .. I was just looking at that
21:20<Sqrt{not}>if you have that kind of proprietary hardware, you proabably need to enable the non-free repo to support it, and contrib too.
21:21<ppc64>I am checking the NVidia driver support page to see if this is an issue with the Lenovo W540 laptop. The thing has a Quadro K1100M chip in it.
21:24<ppc64>found the issue
21:24<cef>Sqrt{not}: Ok, that didn't really help. I could spend all day looking thru every linked man page for pulseaudio and still not see it (and tbh, they're quite segmented, there's bugger all examples, and all the online stuff around the same seems to "assume" you know how it all works 100%).
21:24<ppc64>seems that at some point someone ( not me ) installed this --> https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/153717/en-us which is 418.113 version driver
21:25<cef>ppc64: That'd do it.
21:25<ppc64>however strangely .. the nvidia-driver package is still installed or so dpkg-query claims
21:26<ppc64>I think the machine is slightly borked in terms of the pkg state
21:27<somiaj>,v nvidia-driver
21:27<judd>Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.211.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 460.73.01-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 460.91.03-1; bookworm/non-free: 470.74-1; sid/non-free: 470.74-1
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21:27<ppc64>well anyways, it is a Lenovo W540 with an i7 and 16G of memory and dual SSD's so a hell of a nice machine and runs Debian just great
21:27<somiaj>ppc64: the machine with the older version dosen't have non-free as part of its sources, so it won't be able to update that package since that is in non-free
21:27<cef>ppc64: yeah afaik that either grabs a .deb and installs it, or builds one for you. I doubt you get updates. You should also check source.list fragments in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
21:28<ppc64>ah I see buster/non-free: 418.xxx
21:28<ppc64>I thing this was a buster machine that was upgraded
21:28<ppc64>think
21:29<ppc64>okay .. I think I see what is going on here. good stuff.
21:29<cef>ppc64: May have had previous sources removed/commented during upgrade and never added back
21:29<ppc64>This is one of those times I may just not fix it as it ain't broke.
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21:30<ppc64>also the nvidia-cuda-toolkit is wildly different. The machine that may have been buster says 9.2.148-7 whereas the other machine says 11.2.2-3
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21:31<Sqrt{not}>v nvidia-cuda-toolkit
21:31<ppc64>I am hesitant to edit the sources.list without a full bare metal backup
21:31<Sqrt{not}>,v nvidia-cuda-toolkit
21:31<judd>Package: nvidia-cuda-toolkit on amd64 -- stretch/non-free: 8.0.44-4; stretch-backports/non-free: 9.1.85-8~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 9.2.148-7+deb10u1; buster-backports/non-free: 11.2.2-2~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 11.2.2-3; bookworm/non-free: 11.3.1-4; sid/non-free: 11.3.1-4; experimental/non-free: 11.4.0-1
21:32<ppc64>right bullseye/non-free: 11.2.2-3 <-- this look like "stable"
21:32<somiaj>ppc64: all your non-free stuff is gooing to be different because you don't have contrib non-free enabled
21:32<somiaj>I would add contrib and non-free and finsih upgrading the system
21:32<ppc64>somiaj: I wonder if it is safe to make the change and then just fire off the upgrade
21:32<somiaj>I wouldn't expect it to be otherwise
21:33<ppc64>is there a way to do a pkg check ? something that actually checks the sha hases or something of every file ?
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21:33<somiaj>debsums
21:33<somiaj>but apt already does checks whendownloading
21:35<ppc64>cool ... well then. I can wear a belt and suspenders and drop the machine to single user mode, tarball the whole thing to a backup server over NFS and then do the upgrade .. or .. just go for it .. time to flip a coin
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21:35<somiaj>just upgrading a few packages shouldn't cause problems, and I highly doubt any data loss will happen and you can just recover with a live system
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21:38<ppc64>any thoughts on this as sources.list ?? http://paste.debian.net/plain/1216550
21:38<sney>looks normal to me
21:39<ppc64>okay should be good to go then with the non-free contrib added on
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21:42<ppc64>before I hit the big update .. question about "oldstabel" as seen at https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/archive/latest-oldstable/
21:43<ppc64>is that oldstable still to receive security updates for another little while ?
21:43<somiaj>oldstable = buster right now
21:43<somiaj>oldstable gets security support for about 1 year after the release (though browsers often only get about 6-9 months)
21:43<ppc64>oh .. it says ver 10.11.0 there
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21:43<somiaj>so if using a desktop I would upgrade within 6 months of a release
21:44<somiaj>but after oldstable looses support, LTS takes over and supports some packages for another 2 years, and the ELTS is paid support for 2 more years
21:44<somiaj>useful for server side stuff, for desktop stuff, I would just keep up with running stable, though waiting 3-6 months for a few point releases
21:44<ppc64>this paid support .. there are places/Debian to get a support contract ?
21:45<awal1>dpkg lifespan
21:45<dpkg>The security team tries to support a <stable> distribution for about one year after the next stable distribution has been released, except when another stable distribution is released within this year. For the <squeeze> release, there is a volunteer effort to extend security support to a total of five years; ask me about <squeeze-lts>. http://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan
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21:45<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended
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21:46<somiaj>there is a compan freexian that provides support on older debian releaese for companies who pay a fee to pay the time of the people who backport security fixes
21:46<somiaj>this is more server side stuff, and basically only stuff people pay for gets security support
21:46<somiaj>note everyone gets the updates, but unless someone pays for them, they dont' happen
21:47<awal1>dpkg tell ppc64 about oldstable
21:47<ppc64>cool. there are talks about rhel workstation product for the guys on Power9 systems with NVidia Quadro gear and that makes sense for them but for the amd64 crew ... no way
21:48<ppc64>based on my username it should be no surprise we have IBM Power systems running also
21:48<ppc64>which. by the way, run really well
21:49*ppc64 gets ready for the grand update of joy
21:51<somiaj>oh yea, lts and elts only support amd64 (maybe i386 too)
21:53-!-Guest3901 [~sevu@000261e5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:54<ppc64>I don't think there is anything i686 around ...
21:55<ppc64>there is a lonelu old sparc64 however
21:57<ppc64>well gee the machine with the main contrib non-free says --> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
21:57<ppc64>perfect
21:57<ppc64>the Lenovo W540 however ... is another story
22:00<ppc64>whoa! nvidia-graphics-drivers (430.14-1) experimental says " DO NOT INSTALL THIS RELEASE!!! "
22:00<ppc64>oh no
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22:01<ppc64>that says to install the nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver, nvidia-legacy-390xx-kernel-dkms
22:01<ppc64>well hell
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22:04<ppc64>okay this is getting messy. I have a big dialog box that says "Mismatching nvidia kernel module loaded. The NVIDIA driver that is being installed (version 390.144) does not match the nvidia kernel module currently loaded (version 418.197.02)"
22:04<ppc64>damn --> The X server, OpenGL, and GPGPU applications may not work properly.
22:05<ppc64>welp ... going to reboot the W540 . wish me luck.
22:06*ppc64 crosses fingers and pours a beer
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22:17<ppc64>test
22:17<ppc64>good news .. reboot works
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22:22<somiaj>that is always what happens when you upgrade nvidia, the loaded module will missmatch the new one, just reboot and all is fine
22:23<somiaj>also 430.14-1 where are you getting that, the bullseye version is 460
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22:25<ppc64>machine seems to be running fine but the hardware support was dropped out of that version ... which baffles me
22:26<somiaj>that is normal, nvidia drops older cards, so that is why debian provides legacy drivers.
22:26<ppc64>yes but
22:26-!-chaky1 [~chaky@93-143-119-174.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
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22:26<ppc64>but I see nvidia-smi says Driver Version: 460.91.03
22:26<ppc64>that is pretty darn up to date and if I scroll up ...
22:27<ppc64> bullseye/non-free: 460.91.03-1 <-- looks perfect
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22:28<ppc64>yep .. NVidia claims that the last driver to support that chip was 415.27 from 15 Jan 2019
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22:29<ppc64>well ... seems to work really well with 460.91.03
22:30<ppc64>okay ... W540 did the reboot after upgrade and now a new driver and such.
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22:30<somiaj>the module might not load for the older card though, if you need the legacy driver you should install it
22:30<ppc64>the thing is running now .. with three monitors
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22:31<ppc64>neofetch says --> Resolution: 1920x1080, 1920x1080, 1920x1080
22:31<ppc64>all working
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22:32<ppc64>ThinkPad W541 if that makes a diff
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22:33<ppc64>yep .. working like a charm
22:35<somiaj>the actual model doesn't mean much to many here, it is all about the chips used, that is something that we can look up and give decent advice on
22:35<ppc64>no .. it seems to work great.
22:35<ppc64>I will check a few OpenGL based apps and see what happens but .. thus far all is good
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 24 00:00:33 2021