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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-24

---Logopened Sun Oct 24 00:00:33 2021
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01:06<r4fkramer>Hi all. Please, I would like to know since when some Debian Project Developers have extra officially released the non-free .ISO image of Distro. When did this start?
01:08<solitario>r4fkramer: Where have you found those images?
01:09<r4fkramer>solitario, these images are available in the Official Debian Website.
01:10<solitario>r4fkramer: Ah, okay. I don't know when this started. Maybe someone else can help out.
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01:16<trixie>r4fkramer, based on https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/archive/ the answer appears to be 2011 / debian 6
01:16<r4fkramer>Fine trixie, thank You very much for information :)
01:16<trixie>:)
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04:25<sunbird>hi everyone. anyone have any tips on getting d-i to boot into rescue mode within a libvirt vm? i've got the iso recognized and booting, but cannot get beyond a blank screen after the initial d-i installer screen.
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04:26<sunbird>i need to reinstall grub in the vm and would prefer not to reinstall the whole thing.
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04:27<Tj>sunbird: you could do that without a VM, via a chroot mount, from the host itself
04:28<sunbird>Tj: that is a much better way to do this. i'll try that. thank you!
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04:32<Tj>sunbird: sometimes it depends on how the guest image is stored, e.g. if a qcow2 image you need 'guestmount'
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04:40<sunbird>Tj i've got it working using kpartx. but i'm unsure how to deal with getting the right devices in /dev inside the chroot.
04:41<Tj>sunbird: I do this all the time; I even have a script to set it up :)
04:41<sunbird>i've managed chroots before where i'm binding the sys, dev/ , proc for the actual system, but in this case, it's a vm and i'm unsure how to proceed.
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04:42<Tj>sunbird: the key thing is to ensure you also mount proc dev dev/pts sysfs inside the chroot
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04:47<Tj>sunbird: here's my script (prepare_chroot) https://iam.tj/projects/misc/chroot_prepare
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04:49<Tj>sunbird: its the same as long as the devices mentioned in the VM guest's crypttab, fstab, etc., are also seen in the chroot's /dev/ and *are not host devices* (if you've /dev/sda on host and that is also used in guest then you've a problem and need to build the chroot's /dev/ and possibly /sys/ manually)
04:50<Tj>sunbird: if you want to share some info in a paste-bin I can advise better
04:53<sunbird>Tj: thanks. i really appreciate it. i will take a look at this.
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04:55<Tj>sunbird: what type of file is the VM guest image? is it raw or qcow2 or something else?
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06:09<enyc>hrrrrrrrrrrm.... bullseye chroot and tex-common gives all sorts of trouble with configuring tex-common, as if having #872012 issue again but...
06:09<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/872012 in tex-common (closed, moreinfo, unreproducible): «[tex-common] Installing fails due to fmtutil failure»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-08-13; last modified: 2017-09-20.
06:09<enyc>fmtutil [ERROR]: running `luatex -ini -jobname=luatex -progname=luatex luatex.ini </dev/null' return status: 1
06:09<enyc>manually runing e.g. "luatex" reveals Unable to read environment locale: exit now.
06:10<enyc>I suspect very much this is oversensitive to locale not vaialale or so, which is in my experience not uncommon in chroot's and minimal environments etc
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06:10<enyc>"locales" not installed...
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06:11<enyc>YES, that fixes it
06:11<enyc>this suggests to me tex-common has an insufficient install dependency, or luatex does, or whatever
06:11<enyc>in active bullseye
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06:12<enyc>^^ any thoughts, may be able to create a bug, would prefer somebody else with bullseye can confirm what I'm saying on a different install/enviromnet first
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06:18<debiangamer>My USB installer hangs right after "TSC_DEADLINE disabled due to Errata...". Won't even boot into a drive with debian preinstalled. Any idea what is going wrong or how to debug?
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09:32<udaba>Hello!
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09:34<justme00>Hi! Anyone has any experience with pppd with IPv6? I was able to setup a connection, but sometimes it creates a default route, sometimes not. I was reading the project github and it says that a "defaultroute6" was added, but it shouldn't be used :P
09:34<justme00>Anyway, thanks for any input!
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10:28<vinnie>*NickServ* SET CLOAK ON
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10:29<vinnie>HELP REGISTER
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10:59<scorpion2185[m]>is it possible to bind just the super key?
10:59<scorpion2185[m]>hot keys doesn't let me
10:59<somiaj>It should be, but using a modifier as a binding key can cause strange issues
11:00<somiaj>maybe the program won't let you bind modifiers as a single key binding. Do you use super as a modifier at all?
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11:05<scorpion2185[m]>I don't use super for nothing, I think.
11:05<scorpion2185[m]>I can't bind ctrl+alt+super if I don't add a Fx or a letter keys
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11:06<scorpion2185[m]>If i press super nothing happens
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11:09<scorpion2185[m]>I use Openbox , I tried to bind super to lxpanel "menu" as usually it is, but I needed to add something to super
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11:13<somiaj>well super_l and super_r by default are modifies, check xmodmap, maybe you have to remove them as modifiers if you want to bind things to them directly
11:14<scorpion2185[m]>to remove them do I use xmodmap?
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11:21<somiaj>I believe so, you can use it to change the modifiers
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11:52<scorpion2185[m]>when I use scrot it doesn't sound
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12:02<sunbird>Tj: sorry, i went to sleep. :)
12:02<sunbird>Tj: see /msg
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12:55<sunbird>here's the issue i was working with Tj on in case anyone else has ideas:
12:55<sunbird>i have a libvirt vm that is stuck in grub-rescue. anyone have tips on either (a) getting the d-i to work from the virsh console (I can't get it past the initial screen where it asks what type of install) or (b) getting a chroot working within the vm to run grub-install?
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12:56<Tj>sunbird: sorry, I have private messages blocked
12:56<Tj>sunbird: only just noticed
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12:58<sunbird>Tj: no worries. i didn't know your time zone so thought you might be sleeping. :)
12:59<Tj>sunbird: I wish I were! UK here
13:00<Sqrt{not}>sunbird, here d-i initial screen offers "Advanced Options >" which when selected offers a "Rescue mode" choice.
13:00<sunbird>yes, when i select that, initially i got a vga error, which i resolved by setting vga=normal. but then it just gives me a cursor.
13:01<sunbird>i believe the vga may be redirecting... i'm accessing the vm through virsh console, which is the only way to access it since it's a vm.
13:01<Tj>sunbird: if you want a talk-through for the chroot repair route shout out
13:01<sunbird>i've also tried vga=console and vga=serial to no avail. noacpi and fb=false... no dice.
13:02<sunbird>Tj: i'm happy to do whatever will work! though i am wrangling two kiddos here so may be on and off line. if you have time/patience to help with the chroot that would be great.
13:04<Sqrt{not}>sunbird, once into the installer rescue mode, I can also do alt-F2 and get "press enter to active" which gives a busybox shell.
13:05<sunbird>Tj: I'm still on +g so i don't think you can see my responses in /msg
13:05<Tj>sunbird: ha... how about we both /join #sunbirdfix ?
13:05<sunbird>Sqrt{not}: yes, that's where i'm trying to get but nothing beyond a cursor after starting rescue mode.
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15:19<americanfalcon>hi
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15:20<grove>!ask
15:20<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
15:22<americanfalcon>i have a problem with installing java jre 8
15:22<americanfalcon>in debian
15:22<americanfalcon>there is 7.9.10 etc
15:22<americanfalcon>but not 8
15:22<americanfalcon>how can i install it, and what happened to it
15:22<sney>for java versions not in the debian repos, download the tarball from oracle and use java-package to install it with dpkg
15:23<sney>!java-package
15:23<dpkg>java-package (formerly mpkg-j2se, j2se-package) provides the make-jpkg utility for creating Debian packages from manually downloaded <Java> distributions; Oracle Java 6 (update >= 10) and Oracle Java 7 are currently supported. java-package is available for Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems in <contrib>. http://wiki.debian.org/JavaPackage . Where possible, use <OpenJDK> instead, ask me about <install java>.
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15:28<americanfalcon>E: Package 'openjdk-8-jre' has no installation candidate
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15:35<truth2>What is the best package for visualizing audio?
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15:37<Chaotic>u mean applet or audio editing?
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15:40<truth2>Chaotic, I mean a package that plays audio/sound data, like audacious playing a .mp3 file, and also displays an amazing, hypnotizing computer rendered abstract animation that is driven by the audio/sound.
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15:42<kveroneau>truth2, I thought that's what you meant. If you install Debian Sarge with XMMS, it had an awesome visualization which no longer ships called "What a GOM"
15:42<Chaotic>i use clementine
15:42<Chaotic>but u got Rhythmbox, vlc and mpv
15:43<kveroneau>In theory in an isolated PC with no Internet access, using Sarge should be in theory alright.
15:43<Chaotic>for no internet access use firejail
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15:44<kveroneau>Chaotic, I've been using firejail on my Modern debian for awhile, but I was more so talking about trying to run a super outdated version of Debian which hasn't been patched in over a decade to use an older package which is no longer shipped/supported in modern Debian.
15:45<Chaotic>firejail -net=none <application>
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15:46<kveroneau>truth2, sorry it wasn't called GOM, it was called GOOM: xmms-goom - visualization plug-in for XMMS with a variety of effects
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15:47<kveroneau>Visualization last seen in Etch sadly: https://sources.debian.org/src/xmms-goom/
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15:47<kveroneau>It was one of my favourite audio visualization, and I still cannot find anything else like it.
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15:49<sunbird>shout out to Tj for helping me fix my issue from last night. cheers.
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15:52<kveroneau>truth2, but it looks like it might be living on as a Kodi add-on: https://kodi.wiki/view/Add-on:Goom
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16:00<truth2>kveroneau, unstable has 6 visualization packages for kodi.
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16:01<somiaj>though being a stable support channel, we should probably suggest stable packages.
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16:44<truth2>Which package plays audio/sound data, like audacious playing a .mp3 file, and also displays an amazing, hypnotizing computer rendered abstract animation that is driven by the audio/sound?
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16:45<truth2>Oops. Sorry. I meant to type that in #debian-next.
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16:48<sney>still, the answer, unless you get lucky and some passerby has a recommendation, is going to be some form of "search the web for linux media player visualizations and then search apt to see which one(s) are in debian"
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16:51<golgo13>!dpkg ssh
16:51<dpkg>[ssh] the Secure SHell; "apt install ssh" (<openssh>). Clients for other platforms include <putty> and <cygwin>. Programs to mitigate against brute-force attacks on your SSH server include <fail2ban> and <denyhosts>. See also <scp>, <sftp>, <ssh without password>, <ssh permissions>, <sshx>, <ssh linedraw>, <debug sshd>, <dropbear>, <ssh-copy-id>, <ssh verify key>.
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16:56<golgo13>How do I change the "banner" on the text(= no x) login screen? (deb
16:57<golgo13>(debian bullseye)
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16:58<golgo13>!dpkg banner
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16:59<golgo13>!dpkg banner
16:59<golgo13>!dpkg login
17:00<truth2>Chaotic, Is the "Visualizations" option of $ clementine->Tools->Visualizations grayed out on your computer?
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17:03<lord_rob>Hi! I can't install a debian package (unofficial ppa) I get : "dpkg-deb: error: archive '/var/cache/apt/archives/nicotine_3.1.1-202108020445~ubuntu21.10.1_all.deb' uses unknown compression for member 'control.tar.zst', giving up"
17:04<lord_rob>Any Idea ?
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17:06<Sebastinas>This isn't a deb built for Debian
17:06<Sebastinas>Grab the source and build it yourself.
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17:16<somiaj>lord_rob: that sounds like a good way to break debian by installing random packages from ppa's
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17:23<lord_rob>somiaj: it worked I could build it
17:24<lord_rob>it's package nicotine, which is not available in stable anymore, so I downloaded a ppa from the devs
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17:28<tomreyn>due to "depends on unmaintained pygtk" (since 2013)
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17:30<lord_rob>ok
17:33<tomreyn>oh you're trying to use nicotine+ actually
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17:33<tomreyn>https://nicotine-plus.github.io/nicotine-plus/doc/DOWNLOADS.html#gnulinux-bsd-solaris
17:36<tomreyn>there's a flatpack, too. might be more compatible
17:38<lord_rob>anyway my build works correctly, I should have though to build it manually earlier
17:38<lord_rob>it was stated that the package was for *both* debian and ubuntu
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17:39<somiaj>some just think a .deb can be installed on both or don't test. Or it was built and is compadable with buster but not bullseye, which was released recentally
17:40<sney>the archive using zstd compression indicates that it's too new for current debian releases, so they probably either managed to install it on sid or just didn't check
17:41<lord_rob>it's only a matter of fakeroot debian (...)
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17:43<lord_rob>sney: I see (I was a SID user but I managed to break it so I'm on Stable currently)
17:44<sney>fyi, sid does not stand for anything, you don't need to put it in all caps. it's a name.
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17:45<sney>and zstd compression is fairly new and only supported by a handful of distros at this time.
17:45<lord_rob>I thought it was "still in devopment"
17:45<sney>nope, people online made that up by themselves :)
17:45<lord_rob>hehe
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18:44<Human_G33k>hello, not sure there is a solution for my "issue" i need a way to load from ssh cli bash function on the distant server and i want to make it automaticly after a su -
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18:45<somiaj>what do you mean, that after you run su - a script runs?
18:46<somiaj>note su has the -c/--command option to send a command to the shell to run as that user
18:46<somiaj>there is also sudo
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19:41<twb>!wayttd
19:41<dpkg>What Are You Trying To Do?
19:41-!-fax_ [~quassel@87-92-108-123.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
19:41<twb>I have a feeling the real answer here is "learn ansible"
19:42<dvs>!wayttd twb
19:42<dpkg>What Are You Trying To Do, twb?
19:42<twb>dvs: I was responding to Human_G33k
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20:05<Human_G33k>somiaj & twd i m aware of -c , i try to automate script stuff but i do not want to manage several deploy of my script lib. (for conveniance and security)
20:06<Human_G33k>i used to do ssh user@distant ; su -; other stuff
20:06<Human_G33k>with pseudo code i want a way to do
20:07<Human_G33k>ssh user@distant -c << mystuff.sh
20:07<Human_G33k>and i want file mystuff.sh locally
20:07<Human_G33k>and not send it
20:09<twb>Human_G33k: ssh porn.com su root - -c bash < payload.bash
20:09-!-lucascastro [~lucascast@177-185-128-123.static.isotelco.net.br] has joined #debian
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20:10<twb>But at that point why not ssh porn.com -l root < payload.bash ?
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20:12<maze>hi
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20:14<maze>is there someone named terminal here
20:15-!-user01 [~user01@c-68-32-37-201.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:15<maze>nope, guess not
20:15<maze>xD
20:16<maze>so what has been going on with the bugs in linux lately
20:16-!-nonedead [~oftc-webi@2600:8804:1300:110:a9ea:4d90:9122:880d] has joined #debian
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20:17<nonedead>I have a question about multiple ip addresses on a single interface
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20:18<Human_G33k>twb: ok i will try that
20:18-!-unknownharvester [~oftc-webi@2600:8804:1300:110:a9ea:4d90:9122:880d] has joined #debian
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20:18<unknownharvester>I have a question about multiple ip addresses on a single interface
20:19<Human_G33k>thx
20:19<sussudio>like route add -host 192.168.178.1 dev eth0
20:19<unknownharvester>I can get 2 ip addresses working but no more than that
20:20<unknownharvester>I have a /30 and a /29 that I am trying to get working, I have the /30 working fine and only one address of the /29
20:20<Human_G33k>twb: -l root because root is not allow
20:20<unknownharvester>All are in the interfaces file but the system is only showing two under 'ip address'
20:21<twb>Human_G33k: why is root not allowed?
20:22<Human_G33k>because i can
20:22<Human_G33k>:)
20:22<maze>playing with an irc bot ?
20:22<Human_G33k>not at all
20:23<maze>ah so iah ok lol
20:23<maze>XD
20:23<Human_G33k>full legit stuff
20:23<maze>:)
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20:23<Human_G33k>i will be back if not work :D
20:24<Human_G33k>thx
20:24<unknownharvester>Any suggestions?
20:24<maze>mmy old irc we had a bot named bob, tried to have him fully interactive to the point people who came into our chat couldnt tell if it was aa bot or a troll
20:24<sney>!chat
20:24<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
20:24<sney>unknownharvester: please pastebin your interfaces file and output of 'ip a'
20:24<maze>but my question is
20:25<maze>what is going on if you know with linux bugs stopping us from upgrading or fixing issues with pkg updates
20:25-!-pert [~pert@00029085.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: pert]
20:25<twb>unknownharvester: works for me: http://ix.io/3CJY
20:26<unknownharvester>https://pastebin.com/kQk97Tkp
20:26<maze>im thinking i may have a corrupted iso
20:26<maze>but i figured id ask if anyone knew otherwise another possible issue
20:26<twb>unknownharvester: why are you using /30 anyway? Are you trapped in 1998?
20:26<twb>unknownharvester: you probably want a peer address
20:27<maze>lol\
20:27<twb>"ip address add 1.2.3.4 peer 4.3.2.1"
20:27<unknownharvester>Was given a single ip when I got the server, added a /29 afterwards
20:27<blast007>maze: you're gonna have to be far more specific
20:28<maze>thnks, ill try to be more specific, pls wait one moment
20:28<twb>unknownharvester: oh you've just bought a /32 and a /29 from some company that rents public IP addresses?
20:29<unknownharvester>I rent a dedicated server, it came with 1 ip and I got a 5 ip addon afterwards
20:30<twb>unknownharvester: well 1.2.3.4/29 is not 4 addresses, it's 1 address on a 4-address network
20:30<maze>0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 34 not upgraded.
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20:30<maze>i come up with this issue every time i try to upgrade all
20:30<maze>sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
20:31<maze>The following packages have been kept back:
20:31<maze> chromium chromium-common evolution-data-server folks-common gir1.2-freedesktop gir1.2-glib-2.0
20:31<maze> gir1.2-gweather-3.0 gjs gnome-contacts gnome-settings-daemon gnome-settings-daemon-common
20:31<maze> gnome-shell gnome-shell-common gnome-shell-extension-prefs gnome-shell-extensions
20:31<maze> gobject-introspection gstreamer1.0-libav kali-desktop-base kali-themes kali-themes-common
20:31-!-maze was kicked from #debian by debchange [flood detected]
20:31<sney>aha, kali
20:31<blast007>some problems just solve themselves
20:31<unknownharvester>lol
20:31<sney>heh
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20:32<dvs>doh!
20:32<twb>I don't understand how #debian gets so many people *not* running Debian
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20:33<twb>do you drive your volkswagen into the audi service station and go "hey my audi is not working too good, the seats keep falling out"
20:33<dvs>you could
20:33<sney>some of it is my fault(a certain hexchat patch), some of it is downstream derivatives with support channels that can't/won't answer basic troubleshooting questions
20:33<twb>does #kali just go "herp derp ask #debian" ?
20:34<sney>and maybe there's a general perception that #debian is active and able to help
20:34<sney>I think #kali mostly doesn't answer people like that
20:34<sussudio>audi is part of the volkswagen group
20:34-!-unknownharvester [~oftc-webi@2600:8804:1300:110:a9ea:4d90:9122:880d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:34<dvs>sussudio: then porsche! oh dang it...
20:35<sney>I mean, if you were a channel full of security nerds, would you answer every teenager who came in like "I installed kali, am hacker now, how 2 use wifi"
20:35-!-unknownharvester [~unknownpe@2600:8804:1300:110:a9ea:4d90:9122:880d] has joined #debian
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20:35<twb>sney: I'd have a #kali-noobs or similar
20:37<unknownharvester>I'm back, had to reset connection
20:38<sney>twb: yeah, it'd be nice if they did that, unfortunately they just make it our problem
20:38<unknownharvester>THe info I was given was https://pastebin.com/ErvESbwW
20:38<sney>unknownharvester: you still didn't pastebin your interfaces file
20:40<unknownharvester>@sney https://pastebin.com/fKTZh2GN
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20:42<DOOMBOX>this channel isnt poping up on the find list
20:42*dvs presses the stealth button again
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20:44<user01>does anyone else run nordvpn on debian? they havent patched since may :P
20:44<Cameron_AU>Hi Everyone, Wondered if anyone had any experience with creating a Bridge interface containing a bonded interface guest vlan with a vxlan interface as members?
20:45<Cameron_AU>The basics is the vx interface adds correctly however the vlan interface is added then removed straight away: Oct 25 10:27:25 to0504-queensland-agg00 kernel: [5445679.313265] br0: port 1(vx142) entered blocking state Oct 25 10:27:25 to0504-queensland-agg00 kernel: [5445679.313270] br0: port 1(vx142) entered disabled state Oct 25 10:27:25 to0504-queensland-agg00 kernel: [5445679.313302] device vx142 entered promiscuous mode Oct 25 10:27:25 to05
20:45<user01>they advise running the downgraded version for now
20:45<unknownharvester>That is the contents of my interface file
20:45<user01>and not running apt update
20:45<sussudio>!pinning
20:45<dpkg>Pinning is a method to choose which version of a package to install when multiple versions are available from <sources.list>. Bugs are explained at https://web.archive.org/web/20121017070250/http://carlo17.home.xs4all.nl/howto/debian.html#errata . If you use stable, pinning won't help you from messing up the system, ask me about <backports> instead. https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences
20:46<user01>i was like dude, dont tell people not to apt update
20:46<user01>tell them to hold your package :P
20:46<user01>until you get around to patching
20:47<user01> then they dont change the debian package version so you never know when they do patch it
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20:47<user01>without checking with them
20:48<user01>or if the version is their 3.9.5
20:48<sney>unknownharvester: I guess your syntax is fine, can you pastebin 'journalctl -b -u networking'? (or just look at the output as it may give you clues directly)
20:49<twb>user01: I use wireguard; I recommend it. systemd-networkd and network-manager support it natively.
20:49<user01>twb, good to know thanks
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20:49<unknownharvester>https://pastebin.com/p6TyKZzB
20:49<DOOMBOX>do you use vpn on tor?
20:49<twb>user01: if a specific version of a .deb has a problem, you can pin *that version*, and newer versions will still be chosen when they appear
20:49<twb>user01: this is what apt-listbugs does
20:50<user01>twb, right but they dont change the package version, always stays at 1.0
20:50<user01>debian package version
20:50<twb>user01: sound like nordvpn are evil broken stupid people
20:51<sney>I use nordvpn's vpn but not their software, I just have it configured on my router with ipsec
20:51<Cameron_AU_QLD>https://pastebin.com/ynpRf3jf of bond / Bridging logs
20:51<sney>it's unfortunately sort of common for those vpn vendors to half-ass their connection utility
20:51<user01>their solution is remove all config files then reinstall their 1.0 package force a downgrade option then never run apt update until they have an upgrade
20:52<DOOMBOX>mujst be a law enforcement requirement
20:52<user01>so i just have their package on hold
20:52<user01>since the downgrade works for now
20:52<sney>unknownharvester: can you bring up those addresses manually, using commands like twb's example from earlier?
20:52<DOOMBOX>chinese vpns are better
20:52<twb>if you don't control both endpoints of the VPN, but just want to browse gay porn without being defenestrated by the government, I suggest TAILS (which is a Debian derivative pre-tuned for that job)
20:52<user01>but it has been since may that version and they havent patched it yet
20:53<unknownharvester>I'll need the link again
20:53<DOOMBOX>ence the name TAILS
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20:53<sney> <twb> unknownharvester: works for me: http://ix.io/3CJY
20:54<DOOMBOX>twb your reasoning sounds flawless
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20:55<DOOMBOX>also i mean who would ever need to be anonymous if not gay people
20:55<user01>they always tell me to force openvpn too but . . . it says they are the fastest service for wireguard :P
20:55<user01>maybe in china
20:56<user01>https://www.top10vpn.com/guides/wireguard-vs-openvpn/
20:57<user01>says they should be fastest for wireguard anyway
20:57<twb>DOOMBOX: that's just an example. Euthanasia howto would be another one.
20:57<DOOMBOX>you mean assisted suicide
20:58<DOOMBOX>i donr know why would someone looking to do it would need such privacy
20:59<DOOMBOX>i mean there hardlly antrhing more private then the kript
20:59-!-marcello42 [~mp@p5dedb36a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:59<DOOMBOX>kripte*
20:59<user01>nothing is private these days
21:00<user01>that's connected to a network
21:00<sney>so your isp doesn't send you emails whining whenever you download something that isn't available in your country, and so on.
21:00<sney>but this is all getting fairly OT>
21:00<DOOMBOX>so why are you usinbg norvpn?
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21:00<user01>i like the illusion it gives me
21:01<user01>and that illusion is broken when they cant get their illusion app to work properly on linux
21:02<DOOMBOX>nordvpn is like your family
21:02<user01>or maybe it is debian specific idk
21:02<DOOMBOX>just use GAILS
21:02<user01>definitely deb package related anyway i only run debian except for my big brother android devices
21:02<DOOMBOX>i mean TAILS
21:03<twb>user01: if all you want is a false sense of security, maybe we can do that using Debian packages?
21:04<DOOMBOX>actually android is linux little brother
21:04<user01>well all you'd need is a bash script that prints "No worries! your data is safe!" when you start a terminal
21:04<sney>!offtopic
21:04<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
21:04<user01>sney, agreed :)
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21:05<DOOMBOX>you mean instead of that disclaimer?
21:05<user01>though we are talking about a new package now . . .
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21:05<Cameron_AU_QLD>Thanks - Was trying to see if anyone had replied to my question lol
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21:08<DOOMBOX>"This program comes with absolutely no warranty"
21:09<DOOMBOX>what was your question?
21:09<unknownharvester>Nope no success, I had to get a kvm connected to the machine
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21:10<Cameron_AU_QLD>Trying to troubleshoot a br0 creation between bond0.142 and vx142 interfaces
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21:10<Cameron_AU_QLD>Logs show the vx142 adding correctly however the bond0.142 gets added then disabled straight away
21:11*DOOMBOX wonders how many women enjoy watching gay porn
21:11<Cameron_AU_QLD>https://pastebin.com/ynpRf3jf
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21:14<Cameron_AU_QLD>I suspect it's due to the vlan already being part of the bond0 but i'm lost.
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21:16<DOOMBOX>that's above my pay grade sorry
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21:20<unknownharvester>It only processes the first two static entrys in interfaces, I've moved a couple addresses around and come up with the same problem
21:21<sney>unknownharvester: were you able to bring the addresses up manually, outside of the interfaces file?
21:22<unknownharvester>Yes, then my session dropped out and could not access the machine until reboot
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21:24<sney>that sounds like actually no
21:25<sney>if adding extra ip addresses caused the network connection to drop
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21:25<sney>were you doing them one at a time, or did you paste some big block of commands?
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21:26<DOOMBOX>used a script
21:28<Sqrt{not}>DOOMBOX, please stop being a troll
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21:29<DOOMBOX>IM the troll?
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21:31<sney>if you don't want passers-by to think you are trolling, adjust your SNR
21:32<unknownharvester>Ok, I got all of them added, though the interface on it is showing down
21:33<DOOMBOX>you can never runout of ip adresses if you use ipv6
21:35<unknownharvester>True
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21:41<dvs>Well, technically you can but... *smack* ok ok I'll stop!
21:42-!-Cameron_AU_QLD [~oz_file_s@tp-ho.techpath.com.au] has quit []
21:42<sney>(they were sure we'd never run out of ipv4 addresses, too. I'm sure we'll find a way.)
21:42<DOOMBOX>vpn
21:44<DOOMBOX>vpn + dns and everyone could have the same ip adress
21:44<dvs>the 64/64 bit address goes some ways towards that.
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21:47<DOOMBOX>instead of anonymous we would be homonymous
21:48<DOOMBOX>?
21:50<tjcarter>Wait, there is a SEVERITY CRITICAL bug in Debian (#733094) fixed upstream six years ago, where a dev won't change a debug=1 to 0 in a script … because "you don't have to install it"? Seriously, this shouldn't be permitted to continue.
21:50<twb>tjcarter: what CVE?
21:50<tjcarter>(I might disagree about the bug severity a little. Grave, perhaps not critical)
21:51<tjcarter>twb: #733094, package fills / with debug log spew that isn't set to be rotated or anything
21:51<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/733094 in uvcdynctrl (open): «fills disk writing to /var/log/uvcdynctrl-udev.log»; severity: critical; opened: 2013-12-25; last modified: 2021-01-21.
21:51<tjcarter>gigabytes and gigabytes of it
21:51<tjcarter>45 gigabytes in my case.
21:52<twb>tjcarter: why isn't there just an /etc/logrotate.d
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21:52<tjcarter>developer says you can just create one yourself
21:52<somiaj>still even then if it fills up to be gigs really quickly, would logrotate catch that?
21:52<tjcarter>or you can edit the script not to spew all that udev debug info to a log
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21:53<tjcarter>it'd take a fair amount of udev events for it to fill REALLY quickly
21:53<tjcarter>logrotate does run daily
21:53<twb>somiaj: no, logrotate isn't sufficient in such cases.
21:54<DOOMBOX>i disabled login
21:54<twb>somiaj: I merely suggest it as a "no brainer" thing that nobody can object to
21:54<twb>You could also try wrapping in systemd-cat
21:54<DOOMBOX>cant recall how right now
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21:55<tjcarter>twb: no brainer would've been to create a udev rule to make the debug be in the environment (and thus subject to setting/changing in /etc)
21:55<tjcarter>and defaulting it to off.
21:55<twb>tjcarter: OK, fine. Do that, then
21:55<somiaj>twb: "I've fixed uvcdynctrl upstream but haven't push a new deb package because
21:55<somiaj>due to some uvc driver changes it became mostly irrelevant."
21:55<tjcarter>but let's not be hasty with that last part 😁
21:55<somiaj>the maintainer seems to not care at all about this package or bug.
21:55<DOOMBOX>can you creat a symlink to /dev/null?
21:55<tjcarter>twb: it's not like I can just upload a NMU
21:56<tjcarter>That's likely my local solution, yes
21:56<somiaj>also maybe not have a debug script spit out the same line billions of times, isn't hard to put a timer or lock that would stop that.
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21:56<DOOMBOX>you can make the log any size you want
21:56<tjcarter>It'd kinda require giving any Fs first. The developer seems not to.
21:56<sney>fixing things with timers and logrotate seems a weird approach to a package that should not be in debug mode by default, because nothing should.
21:57<tjcarter>Especially something that's a recommends of another package you're likely to want to install.
21:57<sney>yeah, especially that
21:58<sney>downgrading the bug severity to critical smells like a release team "we'll deal with this after bullseye" decision, which means the time to bump it back to RC severity is now
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22:00<DOOMBOX>make log rotate run every 10m
22:00<tjcarter>This one kinda seems like a good candidate to just NMU the thing and be done with it
22:01<sney>although, now that I'm looking at it, this package might just get removed before long anyway. not in stable or testing, no vcs, homepage is gone, github last activity is 2015
22:01<tjcarter>I sort of suspect that's more frowned upon than it was 20 years ago, and it was kinda frowned upon then. 😆
22:03<DOOMBOX>https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-do-i-rotate-log-files/
22:03<sney>DOOMBOX: nobody in here is confused about how to use logrotate. if you don't have anything to contribute, it's ok to just lurk without making random comments.
22:04<DOOMBOX>im am
22:04<DOOMBOX>and there no grafical way to use systmd
22:05<DOOMBOX>like a sys control panel
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22:07<tjcarter>oh look, there's this empty can labeled "worms" here…
22:07<sney>*nix system administration is usually done via the terminal, since you can't count on the gui always working when you need to debug/fix/enable/disable something. is there something specific you're trying to do, or was that just a general complaint?
22:07<DOOMBOX>system control is using a terminal how very last century
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22:08<DOOMBOX>what other mother OS does that
22:08<DOOMBOX>modern
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22:08<tjcarter>sney: My complaint about systemd dating back to about 2016 or so when I first started poking at it was that it didn't have documentation at the four levels of user who were going to need it. It didn't all need to come from RedHat, but it needed to exist. It does now, I think.
22:08<DOOMBOX>the 70 was half a century ago
22:09<sney>if you don't have a support question, you can direct your systemd complaints to /dev/null. we've heard all of them and it's just very boring at this point. plus, #debian is a support channel, so we don't decide if it stays or goes anyway.
22:09*tjcarter notes that Windows and macOS are both administered as server OSes using terminals.
22:09<DOOMBOX>i love systemd
22:09<DOOMBOX>and that kid poeterying
22:10<sney>lennart's blog has a very good series on systemd for administrators that dates back to around 2013, but I think it was a pretty obscure link for most of the time it's been up.
22:10<DOOMBOX>also love pulde audio
22:10<somiaj>guis often cannot contain all the options and configuration varaiblity a text file and command can too, not everything can nicely be put into a gui tool.
22:10<sney>the freedesktop stuff is getting better.
22:10<DOOMBOX>nice excuse to sit on your hands
22:11<tjcarter>sney: PipeWire's got some teething problems just now, but I expect it'll mature rapidly.
22:11<sney>indeed, so I hear
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22:12<sney>I'm not holding my breath for PC audio to stop being a weird mess at any point in my lifetime, but I'll still take improvements where I can get them, haha
22:12<tjcarter>I ran head long into a "just use Gnome" solution to a problem with it … I think I need dust off 21 year old memories of how to write X11 apps … need to listen for xkbbell events and … do a thing.
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22:14<DOOMBOX>i dont know how anyone can use gnome efectivlly
22:14<DOOMBOX>well if you do everything on gnome terminal mabey
22:16<DOOMBOX>even icewd is better
22:16<sney>gnome has been targeting (1) use case for about a decade now, it works fine if you fit into their box, but there are few options for anyone who doesn't.
22:16<tjcarter>sney: Who's that guy … definitely should've been a radio announcer, seriously overacts on his channel … Linux Sucks videos. He was complaining about Linux audio for the past $TIME years and it's still kind of a mess. PipeWire shows a lot of promise though. It's kinda what Pulse should've been.
22:16<sney>and this isn't an issue for most linux users since there are many other desktops to choose from, but sometimes you hit one of tjcarter's walls
22:17<tjcarter>sney: I'm using one of the alternatives.
22:17<sney>the fundamental proble with linux audio is audio in general. outside of printing, I can't think of anything else that's been quite so hairy for quite so long.
22:18<sney>flashbacks to playing DOOM and trying to have both music and sound effects, etc
22:18<DOOMBOX>on the beeper?
22:19<tjcarter>my need to write a tool for xkbbell is because people don't have PC speakers anymore, the PC speaker module isn't loaded anymore, it might not even work if it is, even if you have one, and there's no way to know, and Xorg has this legacy code from the 1980s to still basically assume it's there and works.
22:19<DOOMBOX>i always though audio to sound better on linux
22:20<DOOMBOX>i guess they deprecated the beeper cause of the noise it mafe will working on dterm
22:21<tjcarter>For some reason only known to the XFCE devs, they decided to make \a in their terminal use xkbbell rather than the more modern "play a sound through system audio" thing. Which XFCE doesn't even come configured to use by default anyway. It's a abnormal usage case for XFCE.
22:21<sney>they deprecated the beeper because it costs something to put it on the board, and hardly anyone uses it anymore. so to make a generic alarm "boop" noise you need to talk to the actual audio system instead.
22:22<tjcarter>PulseAudio has a workaround for this. Load a sound sample, give it a name, and then load a module that intercepts xkbbell events and plays that sample.
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22:22<DOOMBOX>the beeper is the only way to debug haesware problems
22:22<somiaj>The problem is many pieces of software still use the system beep to pass information, so disabling the pcspkr is fine, but not having a way to get that beep through the sound card should be fixed.
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22:23<tjcarter>PipeWire … doesn't support this. (It also can get broken so it can't see your ALSA devices, that caused me to remove it for now and go back to Pulse, which also had no audio devices for awhile until I completely reinstalled all of that.)
22:23<DOOMBOX>the beeper is the only way to debug hardware problems
22:23<somiaj>It is nice to have beep codes for systems that don't post, but I find I have less problems posting than I use to 10+ years ago.
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22:23<DOOMBOX>like if your ram goes bad or is it the cpu gpu
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22:24<tjcarter>I think that last problem was something something pipewire janked up that also affected pulse and I needed to purge/reinstall some packages to restore a Pulse configuration that worked.
22:25<DOOMBOX>and it might not be just the computer not posting
22:25<DOOMBOX>´~
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22:25<DOOMBOX>i had a computer postting fine but there was some warning
22:25<tjcarter>Like I said, teething problems. That will get sorted. The xkbbell thing will not, because the PC speaker is considered a dead legacy device.
22:25<DOOMBOX>like if the cpu fan isnt working
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22:26<sney>tjcarter: my mcgyver impulse is to make it yell at /dev/dsp directly, though I'm not sure if that's allowed these days
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22:26<tjcarter>somiaj: many motherboards now include POST cards on the board
22:26<tjcarter>sney: it is if you have osspd running! 🤣
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22:26<tjcarter>For both apps that need that.
22:27<DOOMBOX>post cards are you kidding me?
22:28<DOOMBOX>and IM the troll
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22:32<DOOMBOX>you could do with how the beep post codes if you replace that feature eith blinking lights
22:33<tjcarter>somiaj: I still keep a piezo beeper in my tool bag for debugging "won't post" issues, but usually if fans don't spin and I'm not almost blinded the rest of the way by the system's blinkenlights … I can usually guess why not unless it's a fresh build.
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22:33<DOOMBOX>like make the hdd led use blink posy codes
22:34<DOOMBOX>actually they should use both
22:34<DOOMBOX>some people are deaf other are blind
22:35<tjcarter>I still like boards with post code displays though, especially for AMD. POST can take an uncomfortably long time on AMD arbitrarily at times for reasons I don't fully understand.
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22:35<tjcarter>the POST codes aren't stopped … it's still working on it.
22:36<DOOMBOX>my board blinks front pannel lights if the computer is asleep
22:37<tjcarter>Anyway, my issue is solved … uvcdynctl probably should get removed or NMUd or something. I think I've just decided to nuke the package from orbit. My cams don't need it.
22:39<DOOMBOX>way to go duke
22:40<DOOMBOX>some day you might need it
22:41<DOOMBOX>and then oh why isnt the cam working??!
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22:49<DOOMBOX>is anyone in here?
22:51<DOOMBOX>how do i change the user icon on xfce?
22:53<twb>On Debian 9, I have systemd-sysusers but no systemd-sysusers.service -- WTF?
22:53<twb>Issue is not present in Debian 11
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22:54<DOOMBOX>what does that mean?
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22:58<somiaj>twb: checking the /usr/share/doc/systemd/changelog.Debian.gz, I see that in 230-3: Build systemd-sysusers binary, for using in rkt. Do not ship the corresponding unit and sysusers.d/ files yet, as these need some Debianization and an autopkgtest. (Closes: #823322)
22:58<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/823322 in src:systemd (closed): «please build "systemd-sysusers" binary»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2016-05-03; last modified: 2016-08-11.
22:58<sney>twb: introduced after systemd 232-25? unfortunately I don't have a stretch system handy to check, but this doesn't list it either https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/systemd/filelist
22:58<somiaj>then in 238-3 It was enabled: Enable systemd-sysusers unit and provide correct Debian static u/gids.
22:58<twb>Yeah it seems like buster-backports maybe fixes it
22:58<twb>"apt-file" on debian 9 claims it's in systemd package
22:58<alex11>DOOMBOX, which user icon? where is it?
22:59<somiaj>,v systemd
22:59<judd>Package: systemd on amd64 -- stretch-security: 232-25+deb9u11; stretch: 232-25+deb9u12; stretch-backports: 241-5~bpo9+1; buster: 241-7~deb10u8; buster-security: 241-7~deb10u8; buster-backports: 247.3-6~bpo10+1; bullseye: 247.3-6; bookworm: 249.5-1; sid: 249.5-1
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22:59<somiaj>looks like stretch at 232 was nicely between the intial build of it in 230, and the shipping of a unit file to enable it in 238
22:59<DOOMBOX>its on the start menu
22:59<DOOMBOX>and also the login screen
23:01<twb>yeah
23:01<twb>For my immdeiate needs I'm just going to bodge and not care
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23:02<alex11>i use xfce and i'm really not sure where any user icon is
23:02<twb>alex11: what do you mean by "user icon" ?
23:02<alex11>well, ask DOOMBOX
23:03<DOOMBOX>its on top of the start menu
23:03<alex11>i assume 'login screen' is lightdm and i'm trying to remember if it has one
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23:03<alex11>i assume by start menu you mean applications menu
23:03<twb>alex11: ah sorry. I ignored them.
23:03<DOOMBOX>i mean wisker menu
23:04<alex11>i'm really not sure, sorry
23:04<alex11>maybe a search engine will have your answer (not trying to be snarky)
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23:05<DOOMBOX>you should be able to just right click it
23:05<DOOMBOX>or drag and drop pic to it
23:06<DOOMBOX>actually this should be the job of a system control app
23:06<somiaj>Arch wiki says (at least for lightdm), copy the image to $HOME/.face
23:07<DOOMBOX>were the user pic should be used system wide
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23:09<twb>lightdm here has an blank picture that might be replaced by a face
23:09<tjcarter>can confirm: .face (no extension) in a format lightdm's greeter can open, assuming your greeter uses faces
23:09<twb>weird it's not in ~/.config or ~/.local
23:09<tjcarter>slick-greeter does, which is what's used with lightdm-settings
23:10<tjcarter>older standard predating XDG?
23:11<DOOMBOX>ther this icon confuration of lightdm greater
23:11<DOOMBOX>you can change it there
23:11<DOOMBOX>~not sure for wisker menu
23:11<twb>probably xfaces
23:11<DOOMBOX>still you need to enter sudo password
23:12<tjcarter>twb: that makes sense.
23:12<twb>Sigh. "lightdm-settings needs to be run as root." so I run it as root, and "ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'gi'"
23:12*twb gets bored, runs away
23:14<DOOMBOX>what if user want to use its pic and dosent have root access?
23:14<twb>"cp /usr/share/backgrounds/xfce/xfce-verticals.png ~x/.face; chown -h x: ~x/.face" didn't Just Work for me, with lightdm, on Debian 11. When I log out of XFCE, ending up back in lightdm, it's the same generic placeholder icon. Typing "x <TAB>" to set the user doesn't change it.
23:14<DOOMBOX>still have to find user pic on the wisker menu option
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23:15<tjcarter>twb: lightdm-settings used to use the GTK+ greeter, now uses slick-greeter
23:15<DOOMBOX>lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings-pkexec
23:16<twb>tjcarter: oh you're supposed to run lightdm-settings from the login environment?
23:16<DOOMBOX>sudo lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings-pkexec
23:16<DOOMBOX>i supose
23:16<twb>I assume it was like xfwm4-settings &c, and you run it post-login
23:16<tjcarter>twb: no, it runs as root while logged in
23:16<tjcarter>I think the package has a broken dependency
23:17<DOOMBOX>there you go
23:17<twb>Ah, so it probably does something like "if euid != 0, exec sudo $myself", and that fails on a system without sudo
23:17<DOOMBOX>isntall sudo
23:18<DOOMBOX>isnt it instaled by default?
23:18<themill>depends on your definition of "default"
23:19<tjcarter>dependency is definitely broken, gir1.2-xapp-1.0 is probably required
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23:21<DOOMBOX>i used my user pic on the wisker start menu button icon :P
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23:21<DOOMBOX>next thing im doing a debian respin
23:22<tjcarter>tjcarter@aki:~$ lightdm-settings → lightdm-settings needs to be run as root.
23:22<DOOMBOX>just change default theming and background image
23:23<tjcarter>twb: the lightdm-settings .desktop file has Exec=pkexec lightdm-settings
23:23<twb>ewwwwwww
23:23<twb>but OK
23:23<twb>GUI processes extremely shouldn't run the entire process as uid0
23:23<Sqrt{not}>sney, the stretch box next to me has /bin/systemd-sysusers
23:24<twb>Sqrt{not}: but no .service
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23:24<tjcarter>it's pretty normal for cerrtain tools that need root access to just be set up to pkexec themselves. I agree, it's sub-optimal.
23:26<tjcarter>I don't think sudo is required though, pkexec has its own "better than sudo for a GUI" way of obtaining root.
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23:26<Sqrt{not}> /lib/systemd/system/systemd-sysusers.service
23:27<tjcarter>either way, you don't need lightdm-settings to drop a .face in ~
23:27<Sqrt{not}>also /lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-sysusers.service
23:28<tjcarter>And creating .face is all lightdm-settings is gonna do for you.
23:28<tjcarter>Any compatible DE or DM will pick it up from there.
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23:29<tjcarter>I know Cinnamon, XFCE, and KDE use it. I assume Gnome hasn't implemented something different to be different this time.
23:30<alex11>yeah it's one of the confusing things about linux that certain things that require root are actually better started without using root, and allow themselves to elevate privileges
23:30<alex11>i know the difference, but a new user wouldn't
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23:31<tjcarter>Apps that need it should do that themselves
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23:33<alex11>and if you use a WM like openbox and not a DE that carries the functionality, programs won't have pkexec prompts or whatever
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23:35<DOOMBOX>openbox maybe i should install that
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23:36<tjcarter>If openbox had a compositor with a zoom feature I would probably not be using XFCE
23:36<DOOMBOX>i could use something light for gaming
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23:36<DOOMBOX>i disabled the compositor on my xfce
23:37<DOOMBOX>but firefox tears dcrooling with it disabled
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23:38<DOOMBOX>this thing is using to much ram like 600 megas after booting into xface
23:38<tjcarter>I sort of need the zoom … xfwm4 has it with a little tweaking and some xdotool to workaround hardcoded dumbness.
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23:38<DOOMBOX>i remeber using some distro that user like 135 megas with xfce
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23:39<DOOMBOX>but that was years ago
23:39<tjcarter>xfwm4 ties zoom to alt and wheel by default. I moved that to super and then set up super-= and super-- to pretend to click the wheel.
23:39<DOOMBOX>maybey its systemd :P
23:40<DOOMBOX>also firefox is memory hog
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23:43<twb>Sqrt{not}: are you running systemd/stretch-backports ?
23:44<alex11>anyway i recommend not using openbox just to have "something lightweight for gaming"
23:44<alex11>that sounds incredibly unnecessary, you're not exactly sacrificing performance by using xfce
23:44<DOOMBOX>why?
23:44<alex11>and openbox takes a bit of getting used to in any case
23:45<DOOMBOX>ive used it
23:45<tjcarter>alex11: why would I run openbox just for gaming? I have crazy RAM on the system. If I want better gaming performance, I can close Firefox.
23:45<DOOMBOX>actualli i could even use that one from tiny linux
23:45<DOOMBOX>twm?
23:45<alex11>tjcarter, i'm talking to DOOMBOX
23:46<DOOMBOX>i got 4gb
23:47<DOOMBOX>cant a run just steam on a xorg with out anything else?
23:47<Sqrt{not}>twb, yes, systemd 241-5~bpo9+1
23:48<DOOMBOX>twm dependencies shouldn't more then coup+le of megas
23:48<twb>Sqrt{not}: yeah it's fixed there
23:49<tjcarter>alex11: I suggested fudgespinner consider wmaker for targeting low-end systems.
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23:49<tjcarter>He's damned near as blind as I am, and in his part of the world, Core 2 Duo is still a thing.
23:50<tjcarter>I think mooff was pushing for icewm, which is also fair and possibly even lighter. But realistically Core 2 Duo machines are decently suited for LXDE or even XFCE if they have a bit of RAM.
23:51<DOOMBOX>lxde is lighter then xfce
23:52<twb>yeah C2D is hardly low-end except for the browser
23:52<DOOMBOX>lxde run over openbox?
23:52<twb>icewm is more for like pentium 4
23:52<tjcarter>I'm encouraging him to work on a Pure Blend Debian Chibi or something. LXDE or even IceWM would be perfect for that.
23:53<DOOMBOX>icewm p2
23:53<tjcarter>twb: I ran icewm and wmaker both on a P200. Non-MMX.
23:53<DOOMBOX>yes my thoughts
23:53<tjcarter>Not recently 😁 but they're very low-end-friendly.
23:53<twb>I just meant you don't need to go all the way down to icewm, if you have a Core 2
23:53<tjcarter>Yeah, LXDE should be plenty.
23:53<DOOMBOX>the thing id memory
23:53<tjcarter>Or if you have the RAM to spare, XFCE.
23:54<tjcarter>But I wouldn't XFCE without at least 2GB.
23:54<DOOMBOX>but i only used it form gaming
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23:54<DOOMBOX>twm should work just fine for gaming
23:55<tjcarter>that's not a problem here … used 11Gi (and that's with my usual horror show of a Firefox running)
23:56<tjcarter>Firefox with 76 windows open is pretty aggressive at using RAM.
23:56<DOOMBOX>https://www.reddit.com/r/UsabilityPorn/comments/aiw210/twm_using_linux_like_its_1993/
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23:57<tjcarter>Down to 412 tabs … I'm getting better.
23:57<DOOMBOX>the texr sure looks sharp
23:58<tjcarter>alex11: did you figure out what you were working on earlier?
23:58<alex11>i wasn't working on anything
23:58<tjcarter>oh, my mistake
23:58<DOOMBOX>you got love clean text looking fine with out any antialising crap
23:58<alex11>i was replying to other people
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 25 00:00:34 2021