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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-26

---Logopened Tue Oct 26 00:00:36 2021
00:01<Thrift>Yes,I have. I encountered a bug related to this when writing a Qt program
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00:01<Sqrt{not}>the clipboards can hold anything from a few letters of text, to a picture, to an entire web page, or a webpage link. they are just a copier facility
00:01<somiaj>Shouldn't AT handle all the clipboard stuff? I'd personally talk to QT developers, might find one who knows a bit more (this more supports using debian vs lower level stuff like qt/xqq)
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00:02<somiaj>Sqrt{not}: I think that might vary depending on which clipboard, one thing I like about the tranditional clipboard is it just seems to hold text (no formatting, links etc), but the new one can seem to hold anything, which is sometimes undesireable
00:03<Sqrt{not}>right, the ctrl-C/ctrl-V is much more general, the hightlight/middle-click is (mostly?) text only.
00:07<sussudio>speaking of middle clicks... i opened my mouse earlier and it looked like some creature had built a nest under the scroll wheel. it was even interfering with the bottom sensor. sort of reminds me of having to clean mouse balls back in the days, only those you could get out without taking the mouse apart.
00:08<Sqrt{not}>sussudio, that creature is probably a "bug"
00:08<sussudio>it looked like a miniature rodent's nest
00:09<Sqrt{not}>that is because a mouse is a rodent
00:09<sussudio>i vaguely recall an earlier mouse with a scroll wheel that you could just take out
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00:12<Thrift>https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-97760
00:13<Thrift>I reported a bug to Qt. If anyone knows this knowledge, I hope they can give me some help.Thanks
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01:07<Sqrt{not}>Thrift, watching your movie, it occurs to me that in the first 2 examples you first have some text, which you click/select, and then your copy/pasta window is active on the selected text. in your third example, there is no text, and nothing selected when you activate the menu. thus, not the same conditions.
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01:09<Thrift>In third example, the situation is the same whether there is text or not
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01:10<Thrift>Or what do you think is the most correct operation? I'll record it for you.
01:11<Sqrt{not}>It would be more convincing if the third example were just like the second.
01:11<Thrift>ok, wait a minutes
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01:15<Thrift>I have updated the video, please check it again
01:16<Thrift>https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-97760
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01:27<Sqrt{not}>Thrift, I see.... at least the example is more consistent this way. I have no guess why it doesn't work the way you want, though, sorry.
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01:28<Thrift>OK, it's okay.
01:29<Thrift>If anyone else knows this knowledge, I hope they can give me some help.Thanks
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02:24<maxrazer>Does Debian Live have an installer?
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02:29<maxrazer>I found the answer. Yes, the live images use Calamares. I found a review with it.
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02:31<alex11>as of debian 9 i think
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03:01<Sqrt{not}>maxrazer, the live images also have the regular non-calamares installer as an option at boot time.
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03:12<sorau>I'm using Debian 11.1 when i'm using simple-scan I get this message : error: SANE: Error during device I/O (code=9)
03:12<maxrazer>Sqrt{not}, That is good to know. I noticed that non-Calamares installers would not detect my boot partition. I think the Debian installer I tried from the net-installer also was not clear how to install due to that.
03:14<maxrazer>I don't suppose there is any way to modify /etc/default/grub during the installation is there?
03:15<maxrazer>I guess I can add it after, it is just that without setting that I have to reboot many times to get things to work before I can.
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04:17<SignumFera>Hi All, I am trying to compile Linphone on a Debian 11 however I am getting an ld error about overridden definitions. The compile works fine on Ubuntu 21.04
04:17<SignumFera>https://paste.debian.net/1216225
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04:37<twb>What's the option to say "hey if you autoremove something, actually PURGE it, not just remove"
04:38<jm_>I often wanted that purge too, but since it doesn't happen I have to do it manually, annoying
04:38<somiaj>twb: apt has a --purge flg
04:38<somiaj>flag
04:38<SignumFera>YOu can always apt autoremove --purge
04:39<somiaj>though with the new pat, 'apt purge ~c' gets everything fairly easily, though if you have something youdon't want purged
04:39<jm_>cool, need to remember it for next time
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04:42<xoddf2>Why does systemd get stuck at "Reached target Network is Online." during boot?
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04:44<somiaj>There are multiple networking targets, one requires the system to wait until the network is fully online, and this can take a while depending on the network configuration
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04:44<xoddf2>somiaj: It gets stuck for minutes on end (until I get tired of it), though.
04:45<superlinux>hello. I can resolve the IP of security.debian.org correctly using nslookup, however apt incorrectly resolves the IP
04:45<xoddf2>somiaj: Even ^C does not skip it.
04:45<superlinux>on my other computer it does resolve correctly.
04:45<somiaj>!bullseye/updates
04:45<dpkg>There is no "bullseye/updates" repository for security updates. To reduce confusion with <bullseye-updates> (which is for other bug fixes), security updates are distributed via the <bullseye-security> repository "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main". Note that you may also need to adjust your Default-Release and pinning settings for apt.
04:45<grawity>xoddf2: does it show progress of some other job, or does it just seem to stop in general?
04:45<somiaj>superlinux: ^^ is that the change you are running into?
04:45<xoddf2>grawity: The latter
04:45<jm_>try using «systemd-analyze blame» to find out
04:46<xoddf2>jm_: I would if it could even boot...
04:46<grawity>xoddf2: I mean that sounds a lot like it simply finished starting everything, but that "everything" doesn't include a login prompt
04:46<grawity>not quite getting stuck
04:46<somiaj>It could be that the network-wait target isn't able to detect that the network is actually online and will wait and wait until it can detect that. There is a timeout for this though.
04:46<grawity>xoddf2: are you normally expecting a graphical login screen or the console getty prompt?
04:46<superlinux>somiaj, it could be
04:46<xoddf2>grawity: Both, but mostly the former
04:46<jm_>xoddf2: tried switching tty-s?
04:47<superlinux>I will update it to deb.debian,org
04:47<SignumFera>xoddf2: HAve you made any changes recently to your networking config? I used to get that when I made a mistake in the config
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04:47<xoddf2>jm_: That doesn't work either.
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04:47<grawity>xoddf2: you're not really supposed to get both on tty1, it's one or the other
04:47<xoddf2>SignumFera: I don't think so.
04:47<xoddf2>grawity: getty appears, then lightdm replaces it.
04:47<somiaj>superlinux: also note the bullseye-security change, that is the big one, security.debian.org should still work thoug, but yes I would update to deb.debian.org
04:47<superlinux>somiaj, ok thanks.
04:47<xoddf2>grawity: https://i.imgur.com/BerdbRn.png
04:48<grawity>normally getty isn't supposed appear because the lightdm service conflicts with it, so they ought to get deduplicated while resolving dependencies...
04:48<grawity>on the other hand, if you're not getting anything on tty2-6, that sounds like logind failed to start
04:48<grawity>can you boot with the 'systemd.debug-shell' option and go check things out via tty9?
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04:48<superlinux>somiaj, still the same issue
04:48<superlinux>I have a resolution issue.
04:49<jm_>xoddf2: looking at my plot getty indeed starts after network is up
04:49<grawity>in particular I'm wondering if `systemctl list-jobs` has anything, as well as `systemctl --failed`
04:49<superlinux>two computers on the same LAN and one of them is resolving correctly while the other is not
04:49<somiaj>superlinux: unsure what that could be then, I just know that the security change has gotten a few people.
04:50<jm_>superlinux: does getent hosts work on both?
04:50<twb>"purge ~c" is what I used in the past
04:50<twb>I wanted to avoid a second call
04:50<xoddf2>grawity: "No jobs running."
04:50<superlinux>even I tried to force the IP of deb.debian.org to the one of the listed on nslookup result using /etc/hosts and is not working
04:51<somiaj>superlinux: also cat /etc/resolv.conf, are they using the same nameserver?
04:51<xoddf2>grawity: systemctl --failed says networking.service failed.
04:51<superlinux>I just cannot tell from where does apt get the IP
04:51<twb>I was looking at "apt purge --purge --autoremove initramfs-tools" and it wasn't super clear if it was doing to purge or just remove the auto-removed things
04:51<superlinux>yes they are somiaj
04:51<jm_>apt uses system resolver
04:51<twb>superlinux: deb.debian.org uses SRV records
04:51<superlinux>I use the 8.8.8.8 DNS
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04:52<xoddf2>Ironically, I can ping Google Public DNS just fine.
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04:52<twb>superlinux: /usr/lib/apt/apt-helper srv-lookup _http._tcp.deb.debian.org
04:52<tarzeau>i find 1.1.1.1 much better because i avoid google
04:53<twb>superlinux: so you'd need to use debian.map.fastlydns.net not deb.debian.org in /etc/hosts, I guess
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04:53<somiaj>superlinux: ls -l /etc/resolv.conf, what are the permissions on that file?
04:53<superlinux>twb ok let me see
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04:54<twb>superlinux: that or disable SRV lookup
04:54<superlinux>twb, /usr/lib/apt/apt-helper srv-lookup _http._tcp.deb.debian.org SHOWS : debian.map.fastlydns.net 10 1 80
04:55<superlinux>ls -l /etc/resolv.conf ==>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 87 Oct 26 10:29 /etc/resolv.conf
04:55<somiaj>superlinux: okay, just ran across the post where someone's woes were due to incorrect permissions on that file.
04:55<somiaj>that looks fine, it is world readable
04:55<twb>superlinux: exactly
04:56<superlinux>somiaj, I use debian since 2002.
04:56<superlinux>since distro sarge
04:56<superlinux>but this is going to make me crazy
04:57<twb>are you testing with drill, kdig, or dig?
04:57<superlinux>twb, I can give you `dig`. but used nslookup
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05:09<xoddf2>grawity: OHH it was that line in /etc/fstab to mount /tmp on the host that caused it to do that!
05:10<grawity>huh weird
05:11<xoddf2>("host_tmp /mnt 9p trans=virtio,version=9p2000.L 0 0" where the config for that in virt-manager looked like this: https://i.imgur.com/K5Rv5CN.png
05:11<xoddf2>)
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05:14<twb>xoddf2: duuuuuuuude you should try virtiofs
05:14<grawity>is that the "FUSE over virtio" thing?
05:14<twb>yes
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05:14<twb>It's sales pitch is literally "faster than 9p for virtd/qemu"
05:15<twb>and it definitely 100% works for me with Debian 11 host and guest
05:17<twb>http://ix.io/3CUP (and "virtiofs" in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules in the guest)
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05:17<xoddf2>twb: Thanks
05:17<twb>There's a couple other steps I forget, but they're in the virtd recipe
05:24<bentham>Hi all -- I would like to stop using display-im6.q16 entirely (although I do not want to remove imagemagick), and replace it with mirage
05:25<bentham>In particular, I want to be able to 'open' image files and have them open with mirage, not display-im6.q16
05:25<bentham>I have tried editing /etc/mailcap directly, but this gets overwritten with update-mime.
05:26<bentham>I have tried deleting display-im6.q16 with mirage in /usr/lib/mime/packages, but then mimeinfo.cache seems to make display-im6.q16 come back in /etc/mailcap anyway.
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05:27<bentham>I tried deleting mimeinfo.cache and display-im6.q16.desktop in /usr/lib/mime/packages entirely, and ran update-mime,
05:28<bentham>but then when I try to 'open' images, nothing runs.
05:28<at0m>bentham: for such testing, maybe mv instead of rm
05:28<bentham>at0m: I put them in /tmp actually
05:29<somiaj>bentham: this might be due to xdg-open, so look at xdg-mime or xdg-setttings
05:29<at0m>bentham: ok, all smarter than rm =)
05:29<bentham>somiaj: what is the right way to override everything?
05:29<twb>bentham: ~/.mailcap?
05:29<bentham>twb: I want the changes to apply to all users on the system
05:29<twb>oh you're using open which is really xdg-open not view
05:29<somiaj>bentham: check xdg-mime, I would have to look up the syntax
05:30<twb>so mailcap is irrelevant
05:30<bentham>twb: I don't know; what is the difference?
05:30<twb>you want to edit /usr/share/applications/defaults.list and then call update-mime-cache or so
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05:30<somiaj>xdg-mime query filetype, and xdg-mime defualt to set which .desktop file is used I belive
05:30<killall>Hello
05:31<bentham>twb: I do not have /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
05:31<twb>somiaj: interesting, I was doing the editing by hand because then I could add comments
05:31<twb>bentham: yes they renamed it at least twice just to piss me off, personally
05:31<killall>my debian is running kernel linux-image-5.14.0-11.1-liquorix-amd64 and cannot upgrade to linux-image-5.14.0-14.1-liquorix-amd64
05:31<twb>first to defaults2.list then to something obscure like applications.preferences
05:31<twb>!liquorix
05:31<dpkg>Zen is :)(:, or a school of Mahayana Buddhism, or the Zen kernel: a variant of the Linux kernel optimized for desktop systems, including code not present in mainline. Liquorix kernel image packages (http://liquorix.net/) are Zen-based and are not supported in #debian, use #zen-kernel on OFTC instead. http://zen-kernel.org/ Not to be confused with <Xen>.
05:32<somiaj>bentham: so xdg-mime query filetype foo.ext will give you the mime type, then you can xdg-mime query default image/png (for example) and that will return the default application to open .png files
05:33<somiaj>last you can xdg-mime default myapp.desktop image/png -- you'll have to do this for all file types, and this assumes mirage has a .desktop file (or you'll have to create one)
05:33<bentham>$ xdg-mime query default image/png
05:33<bentham>firefox-esr.desktop
05:33<bentham>(really? It certainly doesn't open a browser tab)
05:34<bentham>somiaj: I created mirage.desktop (see above) in /usr/share/applications
05:34<somiaj>that isn't uncommon to use firefox for the default viewer though.
05:34<somiaj>how are you 'opening' these images?
05:34<twb>bentham: your desktop overrides XDG and has an entirely separate second, annoying, layer
05:34<twb>bentham: e.g. /etc/X11/xdg/xfce4/helpers
05:34<bentham>somiaj: image/png is present in the semicolon-delimited list of MimeType
05:35<twb>somiaj: I thinkt they said they're doing "open lena.jpg"
05:35<somiaj>yea, and each file manager also seems to have its own database for this. xdg-mime is only for xdg-open (or the open) command, which desktops should be using, but may not always.
05:35<bentham>twb: I have a weird windowmanager that uses run-mailcap --action=view
05:35<somiaj>That should be xdg-open by default, but doens't have to be, ls -l /etc/alternatives/open for instance
05:35<at0m>and then there's update-alternatives
05:36<bentham>(I'm also testing, separately, with baobab)
05:36<somiaj>yup, to many standards for this, more and more things use xdg-open, but not all
05:36<somiaj>bentham: if you run xdg-open foo.png firefox-esr is used right?
05:37<bentham>somiaj: yes, actually
05:37<somiaj>many apps will use xdg-open, so what I shared is how to configure xdg-open, if your windowmanager/file manager isn't using xdg-open (it should be to comply with modern desktop standards), you'll have to adjust for that, or see if you can configure it to just use xdg-open
05:37<bentham>I'd like to use mirage instead... although I note that firefox-esr is NOT used when I run run-mailcap --action=view
05:38<somiaj>bentham: and ls -l /etc/alternatives/open points at xdg-open?
05:38<bentham>somiaj: yes
05:38<somiaj>well what I told you about xdg-mime default mirage.desktop image/png should work for all things using xdg-open
05:39<somiaj>few things use run-mailcap anymore, my suggestion would be to switch those things to xdg-open if you can
05:39<bentham>what about baobab? Why does that give me an error saying that 'No application is registered as handling this file'?
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05:39<bentham>somiaj: notion still uses run-mailcap
05:40<somiaj>baobab? What 'what' is giving you this error
05:40<somiaj>yea, some things do, but they are less and less common and should jsut migrate so users dont' have to configure multiple different standards
05:40<somiaj>https://xkcd.com/927/
05:40<bentham>somiaj: baobab is a directory browser basically. And when I right-click on an image file to open it, it gives me this error.
05:41<bentham>somiaj: exactly! Everyone wants to manage all the appliations...
05:42<somiaj>xdg is becomming the defacto standard any most modern stuff, if you want to use some of the older stuff (Which is just fine), you'll have to cope with the older tools. Some older file managers just use their own database and don't use any of the system's stuff.
05:43<bentham>somiaj: I noticed that when I removed display-im6.q16 from /etc/mailcap and /usr/share/applications, it stopped using imagemagick and started complaining.
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05:44<bentham>But I tried replacing those things with mirage, and it did not stop complaining.
05:44<somiaj>its been so long, I forget the syntax to configure mailcap correctly
05:44<somiaj>what exactly did you put into the mailcap file?
05:45<grawity>"image/*; eog %s" should do
05:45<bentham>image/png; mirage 'png:%s'; test=test -n "$DISPLAY"
05:45<bentham>(and similar substitutions for all of the horrible display-im6.q16 entries)
05:46<somiaj>could it be the '' messing with things?
05:46<bentham>somiaj: hm, possibly
05:48<bentham>OK, so now my windowmanager is using xdg-open, but it is still using firefox.
05:48<bentham>baobab is still broken.
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05:51<bentham>so I have a file /usr/share/applications/mirage.desktop
05:51<bentham>Must I now parse out all of the items in the semicolon-delimited list inside mirage.desktop and then run:
05:52<bentham>sudo xdg-mime default mirage.desktop X for each of them?
05:52<bentham>like this I guess: grep MimeType mirage.desktop | sed -e "s/.*=//g;s/;/ /g" | xargs -n1 sudo xdg-mime default mirage.desktop
05:53<bentham>It still thinks firefox-esr.desktop :(
05:54<bentham>So xdg-mime default did not actually change anything.
05:55<bentham>oh, wait, there is a separate one for root?
05:55<bentham>I want to change the system-level default and inherit that as a user.
05:55<bentham>not change everything just for me and then still have the defaults break for everyone else.
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05:57<bentham>maybe that is too much to ask. Anyway, I managed to get it to work for my user with my windowmanager.
05:57<bentham>thanks!
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06:06<at0m>in doubt.. do away with apt-cacher-ng caching, or revert to http from https for debian's repositories. hmm.
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06:08<at0m>.deb's are signed internally, so connection to the repo's doesn't really need to be trusted, right? if anyone would MITM the http connection, they'd still need valid keys to sign the .deb's
06:09<twb>at0m: depends on your threat model
06:09<twb>at0m: a .deb is not signed
06:09<at0m>oh
06:09<twb>at0m: if you use http, then everyone on the path can see what you downloaded, e.g. "apt install do-crimes" would be visible
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06:10<at0m>i'd apt install pornview, but that's long gone from the repo's 0_o
06:10<bentham>twb: well, you could use tor+http://something.onion/
06:10<twb>at0m: there are two stages of signatures. When a developer uploads a .deb into Debian, the .changes is signed with their personal key, and the .changes has SHA256 of each .deb &c
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06:11<twb>at0m: secondly, when you the end user DOWNLOAD from Debian, you check the repo is signed by the Debian key. This is the Releases file, and it has a chain of SHA256 that eventually point to each .deb
06:11<at0m>bentham: that would be a nice intermediate solution, indeed, since .onion does both http and has inherent TLS on the connection
06:12<twb>at0m: in other words, with default configuration, you can be pretty sure "apt install foo" installs what Debian provides, and not a tampered version
06:12<twb>at0m: my rule of thumb is: use https:// unless you use apt-cacher-ng
06:13<at0m>twb: ah, right, the sha256 in Releases file does provide the integrity check for the .deb
06:13<twb>(And you probably don't need apt-cacher-ng if you have <10 hosts)
06:14<at0m>'need' is a big word. under 10 hosts, but it does save some internets
06:14<twb>Granted
06:15<twb>Oh I should also note: if you use apt-cacher-ng, anyone that can access it can denial-of-service, and maybe also inject compromised packages
06:15<twb>You can tighten that up, but not easily without breaking its internal cleanup jobs
06:15<at0m>i'm the only end-user on this LAN, and :3142 is just available on the LAN
06:16<twb>The fact that you're asking this makes me think you should just drop acng and accept the download penalty
06:16<at0m>well yea, hency my 'in doubt'
06:16<twb>at0m: right so e.g. I just need to break into your boyfriend's mate's phone, then wait until the mate goes on your LAN to look at funny cat videos
06:17<at0m>visitors would go on another LAN :>
06:17<twb>Excellent
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09:18<g00se>I'm trying to configure ssh.service in a chroot such that when live runs, that service is up and running. Do I need to do anything to enable it, perhaps with manual symlinks (bearing in mind that systemd is not running at all since I'm in a chroot)
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09:18<grawity>`systemctl enable` works in chroots and creates the necessary symlinks
09:18<g00se>Brilliant! Thanks
09:18<grawity>in general, if the unit file has [Install] WantedBy=, that means you symlink the unit into the corresponding .wants/
09:19<grawity>so WantedBy=multi-user.target means symlinking into /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/
09:19<grawity>try systemctl enable on your host system, it'll show the links that it creates
09:19<grawity>there's nothing else it does, it's just symlinking
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09:20<g00se>Actually it said: "Executing: /lib/systemd/systemd-sysv-install enable ssh"
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09:20<g00se>But didn't show any links
09:21<grawity>oh, right, debian
09:21<grawity>it executes that helper to set up any sysv services which don't have a native systemd .service yet
09:21<grawity>I think it mostly forwards to update-rc.d
09:21<grawity>*do* you have a real ssh.service in the chroot's {/usr,}/lib/systemd/system?
09:22<g00se>Probably worked(?) Only errors were lack of configured locale
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09:23<g00se>usr/lib/systemd/system/ssh.service present
09:23<grawity>in that case maybe there already is a symlink at /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/ssh.service?
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09:25<g00se>Yes. It's there
09:27<grawity>good, that should be enough
09:27*g00se is doing all this because of chronic bad 'luck' with debian-live build. Many hours wasted spent running builds that never succeeded
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09:30<g00se>Now that's done I can recreate the squashfs that's the actual content of the chroot and patch it back into the iso-hybrid image
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09:55<Exagone313>Hi, I'm trying to update some packages (in a script) without updating the related configuration files. Unfortutanely, it overwrites the configuration files without asking. I tried adding `-o Dpkg::Options::=--force-confold` to my upgrade command but it is still the same. Any idea? By the way, I'm still on stretch, but I'm actually in the process of updating (finally...).
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10:01<Exagone313>You can disregard my question, I misunderstood that the configuration files were the default ones, it's not the same on another environment I checked --'
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11:09<scorpion2185[m]>When I use scrot no sound is played, can I find what file it should play?
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11:14<bremner>do you other wise hear beeps from the pcspkr module?
11:14<bremner>I have xset -b, so I don't
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11:14<killall>liquorix
11:15<bremner>!liquorix
11:15<dpkg>Zen is :)(:, or a school of Mahayana Buddhism, or the Zen kernel: a variant of the Linux kernel optimized for desktop systems, including code not present in mainline. Liquorix kernel image packages (http://liquorix.net/) are Zen-based and are not supported in #debian, use #zen-kernel on OFTC instead. http://zen-kernel.org/ Not to be confused with <Xen>.
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11:21<g00se>grawity: Thanks for your help
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11:45<scorpion2185[m]>bremner: no other sounds ` bell percent: 50 bell pitch: 400 bell duration: 100`
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11:45<scorpion2185[m]>but on Openbox not sure when I am suppose to hear something
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11:59<scorpion2185[m]>xkbbel and beep don't sound , I loaded that module
12:00<bremner>Ctrl-g in a terminal should beep
12:00<scorpion2185[m]>"Beep can only work if your PC has a traditional old style "speaker" is that true?
12:01<bremner>dunno
12:01<mrwick>scorpion2185[m]: I have a mini pc here without a speaker and it does not beep even when beep is enabled, YMMV
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12:09<scorpion2185[m]>when the bell rings , what's the command executed?
12:09<scorpion2185[m]>I have beep enabled , in xset
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12:35<plaur>hi, does firefox-esr in bullseye support hardware video acceleration? looking in about:config, it only seems to support VAAPI on wayland (at least until it's updated to a newer ESR release)
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12:48<kveroneau>Is anyone aware of a good Timidity frontend, or a midi player that can use the timidity daemon? Playing midi using the timidity command doesn't really support playlists, unless I do "timidity *.mid" for example.
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12:49<kveroneau>I thought there was a GTK front-end awhile back in Debian, but doing an "apt-cache search timidity" does not show any such results any longer.
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12:52<somiaj>plaur: firefox-esr supports webgl here, though I'm use xorg and not wayland.
12:52<somiaj>plaur: what videocard/driver are you using?
12:53<plaur>somiaj: i also use x.org on nouveau. i don't mean webgl, but video acceleration (video as in youtube)
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12:54<somiaj>what option are you using to check video accleration? But I'm sure it works here for me
12:54<somiaj>Do you have firmware-misc-nonfree installed? It contains firmware used with nouveau for many nvidia cards (I use nvidia-nonfree driver here and things work fine)
12:54<plaur>using youtube-dl and mpv i get 33% cpu usage and smooth playing, but in forefox the cpu is at 100% and dropping frames visibly, stuttering
12:55<plaur>yes, i have the firmware installed - otherwise mpv wouldn't work either
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13:00<somiaj>looks like it is disabled by default, so I had to force it on, but now it is working here
13:01<somiaj>though I personally didn't notice any issues with youtube without it
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13:03<plaur>how exactly did you force it on?
13:03<somiaj>toggled layers.acceleration.force-enabled
13:03<plaur>maybe your computer is fast enough that you don't notice, i have an old mac mini here :)
13:03<somiaj>then saw it was on under about:support
13:04<somiaj>yea, my computer should be fast enough....Ryzen 7 3700X
13:04<somiaj>though didn't realize that it is just disabled by default in linux since many drivers may not fully support it
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13:13<plaur>it doesn't help, unfortunately. maybe i need to wait for an ESR update or use flatpak to get the normal version
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13:18<somiaj>it could just be the hardware, the reason it is disdabled by default is many drivers in linux don't support it from what I read.
13:18<somiaj>might just need to use youtube-dl + mpv, on older systems that is often the better choice
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13:20<plaur>yes, already did that for testing - i would prefer to run media decoders in the browser sandbox through, things like video and audio codecs are very complex and had many security issues in the past
13:21<somiaj>what nvidia card do you have?
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13:22<plaur>integrated gpu, geforce 9400M
13:23<somiaj>hmm, well my guess it is more your driver/gpu than firefox-esr stopping you from using acceleration, though I don't know the details enough, having trouble finding definitive information with nouveau and acelleration in firefox, though I did see one account of it working
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13:25<plaur>could be - thanks
13:25*plaur needs a new computer
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13:52<hendursaga>I'm running Bullseye, all I need to do is install zram-tools and not mess with that init script here? https://wiki.debian.org/ZRam
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13:53<hendursaga>Also, I'm running Buster too, would that be sufficient as well?
13:53<scorpion2185[m]>kveroneau: after I installed timidity I can play mid from all music players it seems
13:54<hendursaga>top is showing 256MiB of swap that wasn't there before, for instance
13:54<scorpion2185[m]>rhtymbox at least
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13:56<kveroneau>scorpion2185[m], Oh. Thank you. I guess I never tried. I'll give Dragon Player a shot and see what happens.
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13:57<jmcnaught>hendursaga: did you read the description of zram-tools? You configure it with /etc/default/zramswap
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13:57<hendursaga>jmcnaught: that's to configure it, yes, but it appears to already be running with defaults..
13:58<jmcnaught>hendursaga: it comes with a zramswap.service unit
13:58<hendursaga>https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-enable-the-zram-module-for-faster-swapping-on-linux/ mentions having to disable traditional swap for zram to work right.. is that still valid?
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14:07<jmcnaught>hendursaga: probably you just need the zram swap to be higher priority than the other drive based swap. see swapon(8) about priority, default is lowest so my guess is zram-tools does the right thing out of the box.
14:08<hendursaga>jmcnaught: ah, so the swap is -2 and zram is 100 priority.. so, I'm good there?
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14:09<hendursaga>I guess my general question is, swap and zram cannot coexist at the same time?
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14:10<jmcnaught>hendursaga: the zramswap man page also suggests both can coexist.
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14:28<bentham>OK, so I have a laptop running bullseye, with gdm3 and gnome.
14:28<bentham>Until today it worked just fine.
14:29<bentham>Now, when I log in via gdm3, it locks the mouse, puts it near the lower right corner of the screen, and stops entirely.
14:29<scorpion2185[m]>inxi says that I use gdm3 but it is not true
14:30<bentham>I can move the mouse and provide keyboard input just fine during the gdm3 screen. But once gnome takes over, it's done. I can still use the keyboard to switch to other virtual consoles.
14:30<bentham>Is there something that causes the mouse to stop?
14:31<bentham>Also, I know that I am running gdm3, because when I apt-get remove --purge gdm3 and use lightdm or sddm instead, the mouse and keyboard do not work at all.
14:31<bentham>(even to switch virtual consoles.)
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14:32<bentham>In fact, as far as I can tell, mouse input basically does not work *except* inside gdm3.
14:32<jmcnaught>bentham: did you check the journal for error messages? Use the journalctl command as root
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14:34<bentham>jmcnaught: fair enough, I see some warnings and some errors
14:34<bentham>for example:
14:34<bentham>kernel: rfkill: input handler disabled
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14:34<bentham>systemd[4622]: Failed to start Application launched by gnome-session-binary.
14:34<jmcnaught>bentham: look specifically for errors at the time of login, the messages are timestamped.
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14:34<bentham>jmcnaught: yes, these are all within one second of login.;
14:35<bentham>at-spi2-registr[29932]: Failed to register client: GDBus.Error:org: Failed to register client: GDBus.Error:org.gnome.SessionManager.AlreadyRegistered: Unable to register client
14:35<at0m>bentham: and usb mouse, or mousepad? if it's a pad, you can't enable it again via Fn-[F9?] ?
14:36<bentham>at0m: o, you're right!
14:36<bentham>interesting...
14:37<bentham>Fn+F6 actually
14:37<at0m>bentham: and now it works?
14:37<bentham>at0m: yes, tactically. Let me verify that it works across reboots.
14:37<at0m>yay! now why it does that, that would still be shown in journalctl
14:38<bentham>Maybe I disabled it somehow by accident, but if so, then why would it still work inside the gdm3 screen?
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14:39<bentham>Confirmed. It does appear that I toggled something somehow with Fn+F6 by accident, and that gdm3 somehow managed to ignore whatever I toggled.
14:40<bentham>Thanks all.
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14:40<bentham>Now I can get back to debugging the problem I was trying to fix, which was the backlight ;)
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14:42<stefan>hello
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15:29<alex11>what do most people use to keep a record of their packages? i'm speaking specifically of when you do backups; like, users will back up their /home and whatever else, but what do you use for packages? do you just do a dpkg -l and copy it to a text file?
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15:30<blinux>I need to udpate my Grub config, but I'm not clear on what I do after I edit the /etc/default/grub file. I wanted to run update-grub, but the command is not found. What commands do I run?
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15:31<blinux>update-grub is a stub for running grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg to generate a grub2 config file
15:31<blinux>I see that in the man entry for update-grub
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15:31<blinux>Do I do grub-mkconfig followed by grub-mkimage?
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15:32<blinux>With that -o mentioned in the man page
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15:32<scorpion2185[m]>alex11: !aptitude clone
15:32<scorpion2185[m]>!aptitude clone
15:32<dpkg>To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
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15:32<scorpion2185[m]>and I use timeshift to backup system
15:33<alex11>i know about aptitude clone, i'm just not certain what the best option is
15:33<alex11>i guess that, though
15:34<blinux>Oh, update-grub is found. I just need to try it. The autocomplete was not working.
15:35<somiaj>alex11: I personally just reinstall the software I use, and don't worry about the exact list of packages, and let apt deal with pulling in all dependencies, but in the end this ends up being only a handfull of packages, and I can just install software as I need it.
15:35<blinux>and of course use sudo, otherwise the command won't be found, which is a bit confusing sometimes as I'd expect it to just not run.
15:35<somiaj>though if you want a list aptitude clone is probably the best
15:36<somiaj>blinux: mostly just standards due to the FHS, and putting things into sbin. You can add sbin to your users $PATH if you really want to
15:36<alex11>i think i should just keep a copy of apt-mark showmanual
15:36<alex11>and reinstall from there
15:37<somiaj>you could also trim it down by removing all the stadnard and above packages.
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15:37<blinux>Ok, I'm rebooting to see if the Grub changes worked.
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15:38<somiaj>aptitude search '~i!~M~poptional' something like that may work, though I would then remove any libs from the setup
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15:58<hbnjj>On Debian 11 KDE I notice the avatar in the launcher menu doesn't show after setting it even after restarting. Not sure why.
15:59<hbnjj>Is it not supposed to show?
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16:02<sussudio>maybe it escaped to pandora.
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16:18<bat787>Hi, I have a little question. In fact the automated installation of debian can replace cloud-init no ?
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16:24<plaur>bat787: almost. cloud-init can integrate with the cloud provider, and it's normally part of the ready made image they use when provisioning your VM, setting IP address, host name, etc. to work properly in their environment. a scripted install would miss that and would be much slower to start a new VM
16:25<plaur>for cloud providers it's important to spawn a new VM in seconds, to dynamically increase the number of VMs when the load increases. spending 10 or 30 minutes in debian installer isn't suitable for them
16:27<bat787>Oh ok, indeed I didn't think about it
16:27<plaur>you could use debian-installer to create your own image, I guess
16:28<plaur>bat787: that's also why config management like ansible or puppet fell in usage, they much slower than customizing your image and deploying it
16:28<plaur>they're ^
16:28<bat787>In fact, I will try to automate thr process of deploy a vm on my proxmox server thanks to automated install or cloud-init
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18:05<maxrazer>For some reason Debain's Grub sees two windows to select. I know other distros like KDE Neon only show one. I think I would like to remove one of the menu options that doesn't work. It is not the bootable partition, but just some system files partition.
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19:05<chrisgt>i just upgraded to bullseye and my audio no longer works... what's my best course of action here? should i purge this new pipewire thing and go back to pulseaudio? is there a good fix for this?
19:06<chrisgt>pavucontrol just says it can't establish a connection to pulseaudio, and the mate-volume applet never shows any applications trying to play
19:06<sney>pipewire and pulseaudio are normally both installed on bullseye and do not conflict with each other.
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19:07<sney>it sounds like pulse may not be starting, does 'systemctl --user status pulseaudio' tell you anything interesting?
19:07<chrisgt>Failed to connect to bus: $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS and $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR not defined (consider using --machine=<user>@.host --user to connect to bus of other user)
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19:07<sney>that sounds like no dbus. is there anything unusual with your environment? what DE, etc, are you using?
19:08<chrisgt>i'm using MATE, but nothing unusual
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19:09<sney>scroll through 'journalctl --user -b -u dbus' and look for errors
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19:09<chrisgt>No journal files were found.
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19:11<sney>to be clear, when I'm saying to use systemctl and journalctl with --user, you should not be using sudo
19:11<sney>--user refers specifically to your user session
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19:11<twb>unless you're editing the /root/.config/systemd or /etc/systemd/user (--global --user)
19:12<chrisgt>ah, my bad. just using my root console
19:12<twb>And in both cases, polkit might be a better option
19:12<sney>right, except for edge cases (not here)
19:12<chrisgt>Unit pulseaudio.service could not be found.
19:12<chrisgt>i get this when i run that as user
19:12<twb>chrisgt: is pulseaudio installed?
19:12<chrisgt>when i run the journalctl command as user, i get this one error:
19:12-!-khalid [~khalid@148.87.23.5] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:12<chrisgt>Oct 26 18:50:11 sric goa-daemon[1518]: goa-daemon version 3.38.0 starting
19:13<twb>That's not an error
19:13<chrisgt>oh, it's in red...
19:13<twb>Then goa-daemon is broken I guess
19:13<sney>but probably nothing to do with this if pulseaudio isn't even installed
19:13<chrisgt>pulseaudio appears to be installed, when i do dpkg -l |grep pulseaudio i see its packages
19:14<chrisgt>i don't use gnome online stuff, though.
19:15<sney>and you're sure you're using 'systemctl --user status pulseaudio', with everything typed like that, as the regular user account where you expect to have audio?
19:15<twb>sney: check loginctl shows a pam-systemd.so session next
19:15<chrisgt>yes, i select and center click into console
19:15<chrisgt>and i get service not found
19:16<chrisgt>i do have one other dbus error now that i'm looking harder
19:16<chrisgt>Oct 26 18:52:16 sric dbus-daemon[1441]: [session uid=1000 pid=1441] Failed to activate service 'org.gnome.zeitgeist.SimpleIndexer': timed out (service_start_timeout=120000ms)
19:16<sussudio>get on dbus, gus.
19:16<sney>well, pulseaudio.service is provided by the pulseaudio package, which you say you have installed, so let's look at twb's suggestion next;
19:16<chrisgt>dbus seems to be working since if i open rhythmbox and play, it pops up a notification, etc.
19:17<sney>however, if what you're saying is all accurate then it sounds like your upgrade from buster to bullseye may have been incomplete or otherwise mangled somehow
19:17<chrisgt>that ain't good
19:19<sney>run apt update and apt full-upgrade again, see what happens
19:19<sussudio>maybe there should have been more testing before the release or something.
19:19<chrisgt>still no new updates
19:19<chrisgt>about a zillion packages that it tells me i should autoremove...
19:19<chrisgt>but those have been there for years
19:21<sney>ok. does the file /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.service exist?
19:21-!-futune [~futune@95.82.134.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:21<chrisgt>nope
19:21<sney>apt install pulseaudio
19:22<chrisgt>oh dear, it's coming up with dependancy issues
19:22<chrisgt>that's probably why it broke
19:23<sney>pastebin the whole apt output if you want help
19:23<chrisgt>!pastebin
19:23<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
19:23<chrisgt>https://paste.debian.net/1217007/
19:24<sney>ah good, debian multimedia
19:24<sarnold>wow, I thought that died a decade ago?
19:24<sney>remove that from your sources.list, apt update, and then tryh again
19:24<chrisgt>yes ... it probably did
19:24<sney>it unfortunately stll exists and continues to cause headaches for people who don't know how to use it (sparingly)
19:24<chrisgt>this install is from either sarge or etch. so there's legacy stuff lurking...
19:25<sarnold>I guess if it's influencing things today, then it has to live well enough to spit out Release files :)
19:25<chrisgt>well now pulseaudio is installing
19:26<twb>sarnold: that implies someone is still signing keys... or it's so old it predates Not-Valid-After
19:26<sarnold>twb: is not-valid-after in use?
19:27<chrisgt>systemctl --user status pulseaudio now says that pulseaudio is running
19:27<twb>in Debian's repo yeah. I may misremember the exact way it works
19:27<chrisgt>but still no worky. may i should just reboot
19:27<twb>apt-ftparchive can also add it
19:27<sney>yes, restart your session at least so everything comes up at once
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19:28<twb>APT::FTPArchive::Release::ValidTime {60 * 60 * 24};
19:29<chrisgt>no dice, i'll try a reboot...
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19:32<chrisgt>that has fixed the problem, thanks so much!
19:32<chrisgt>you folks have saved me the entire evening of screwing around to fix this
19:32<sney>np
19:33<sney>if you have any other ancient gunk on that system you may want to do some cleanup :)
19:33<chrisgt>i mean, this OS was first installed on a dual cpu P3 machine. drives moved to this computer in 2009
19:33<sarnold>nice
19:33<chrisgt>eventually i changed it from 32bit to 64bit arch
19:33<sney>yes, exactly
19:33<chrisgt>so... ancient gunk? all of it lol
19:34<sney>but specifically, any 3rd party apt entries that were for something you don't use anymore, that may prevent a debian component from installing
19:34<sney>and probably let it autoremove, too
19:34<chrisgt>yea, i kinda forgot about debian-multimedia
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19:34<chrisgt>obviously this isn't the first time i've been in a fight with it
19:35<chrisgt>iirc i was using the sources to build something against. i don't remember what, it was a long time ago
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19:38<twb>Can apt_preferences pin have multiple src:foo in the same block?
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19:38<chrisgt>yea i have 259 packages to be autoremoved
19:38<chrisgt>so i'm afraid that i'll break something if i do it ...
19:39<sarnold>that sounds like a healthy fear :)
19:39<chrisgt>programs i use are in the list
19:39<sarnold>one at a time, there, I think..
19:39<chrisgt>yes...
19:39<sney>you can 'apt-mark manual' individual packages that you don't want removed
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19:39<sney>but just leaving them in the autoremove queue is like storing your documents in the trash
19:39<chrisgt>oh wait, when i did cat to file it put several packages on a line
19:40<chrisgt>lol it's in the thousands in that case
19:40<jmcnaught>That number might go down a bit if you install a metapackage for your desktop, like task-mate-desktop for example.
19:40<twb>There's also minimize-manual
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19:41<chrisgt>1048 packages
19:41<twb>Which is a nicer equivalent of the old hack: aptitude --schedule-only markauto ~E '~i!~M(~Rdepends:~i|~Rrecommends:~i)' && aptitude --schedule-only keep ~aremove && aptitude install
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19:41<chrisgt>yea, i need to do some ... maintenance of this system. but i've been ignoring the autoremove list for probably a decade (or more) and here we are
19:42<chrisgt>omg some of these packages are 32bit libraries from the days when linux on a 64bit machine used to be horrible
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19:42<chrisgt>yea, i'm afraid to touch that. i'll break something if i don't just let it alone
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20:31<zedki>new to debian. have been using mint since 2015. thot it was time to make the change.
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20:33<chrisgt>so... it used to be in debian that you could do ctrl+period and then type in a unicode character
20:33<chrisgt>or ctrl+period and hit space for the emoji viewer
20:33<chrisgt>but now it just goes straight to emoji, how do i type a unicode char?
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20:36<jmcnaught>chrisgt: Ctrl+Shift+U[unicode] in GTK/GNOME
20:37<chrisgt>jmcnaught: sweet, thanks!
20:38<chrisgt>oh that's way better than the overloaded ctrl+period
20:38<chrisgt>maybe it was always there and i just used the other method. no idea ... heh
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20:40<Sqrt{not}>zedki, good job, welcome. how is it working for you?
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20:45<zedki>Sqrt{not}, so far so good. still trying to get some things I like to work like warpinator
20:46<zedki>Sqrt{not}, just found the flatpak
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20:54<zedki>how do I get #debian to auto start in HexChat. Linuxmint does
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20:54<twb>zedki: I don't know but it's probably in a right-click or edit>preferences menu somewhere
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20:56<coruja>https://hexchat.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html#how-do-i-autoconnect-and-join-a-channel-on-start
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20:59<zedki>thanks, I check those out
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21:03<chrisgt>zedki: for transferring files, i use sshfs
21:03<chrisgt>or if i just need to grab/push a single file, scp
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21:04<twb>chrisgt: scp is not secure https://www.openssh.com/txt/release-8.0#line=27
21:05<chrisgt>damn, i didn't realize that
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21:05<twb>I heard latest openssh has something like "scp --sftp" to make it use SFTP instead of scp internally -- but I can't find that
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21:08<twb>Follow-up to yesterday. Testing confirms "apt purge --autoremove gnupg" DOES purge (not just remove) autoremoved dependencies
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21:09<chrisgt>then manpage for scp doesn't say anything about the --sftp flag
21:10<twb>chrisgt: it's not called exactly that
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21:10<twb>"A near-future release of OpenSSH will switch scp(1) from using the legacy scp/rcp protocol to using SFTP by default."
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21:11<chrisgt>ah
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21:11<twb>https://man.openbsd.org/scp.1 mentions -M but doesn't actually list it
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21:12<twb>So it sounds like "scp -M" is what it will be
21:13<twb>Personally what I had done is put this in ~/local/bin/scp http://ix.io/3D0r
21:14*awal1 doesn't knew that ascii table is included in debian (man ascii) . that is nice!
21:14<chrisgt>i'll have to use rsync insntead from now on out, then
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21:15<twb>Note that it's not 100% compatible, e.g. scp -3 has no easy equivalent in rsync
21:15<twb>But for simple cases, absolutely it's an easy switch
21:16<chrisgt>i guess thinking about it logically, scp -3 is a security issue anyway
21:16<raven523>you can tunnel ssh through ssh
21:16<chrisgt>yea sure, but scp -3 is so much easier
21:17<sarnold>honestly, I'm worried about how safe rsync is about handling malicious file names as well
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21:18<chrisgt>right, what if you have a file name with stars and question marks in it, or wahtever
21:18<twb>sarnold: fixed in modern rsync
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21:18<twb>um let me find my notes...
21:19<twb>Ah it's rsync --protect-args
21:19<twb>But even without --protect-args the actual error modes are less bad than scp I think
21:20<twb>--protect-args causes rsync to pass paths over stdio, so they do not have to deal with ssh's broken use of system(3) instead of exec(2)
21:20<twb>You can put RSYNC_PROTECT_ARGS=1 in your $ENV
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23:23<maxrazer>Is the KDE Plasma launch bar supposed to show the avatar at the top? Because it doesn't, even though I selected one.
23:25<maxrazer>It looks like there is no way to select no avatar once one has been selected either.
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23:45<xust>hello, anybody know about gvfs or where can get help about gvfs?
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23:54<sussudio>!gvfs
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23:58<twb>xust: gvfs is a userspace middleware for accessing filesystems, especially "special" ones like mtp:// and sftp://
23:59<twb>It is used by thunar (XFCE) and nautilus (GNOME3), and by other apps via gvfs-fuse
23:59<twb>It's sftp plugin is really really bad
---Logclosed Wed Oct 27 00:00:37 2021