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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-10-29

---Logopened Fri Oct 29 00:00:40 2021
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@patapon.lol] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@patapon.lol] has joined #debian
00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #debian-quebec #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:04-!-ahmed [~quassel@102.40.14.161] has joined #debian
00:04-!-ahmed is "ahmed,,," on #debian
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00:17-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
00:23<ahmed>how to go chknet
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00:30-!-kamarasu is "Kamarasu Alagarsamy" on #debian
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00:35<sussudio>is that you again, marwan...
00:35-!-tizef [~tizef@202.153.81.220] has joined #debian
00:35-!-tizef is "realname" on #mini-DebConf-fr #debian-nantes #debianfr #pulseaudio #debian-qemu #debian-offtopic #3hg #nakedeb #debian-next #debian
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00:37<Sqrt{not}>ahmed, you are lost. this is not a carding network.
00:38<sussudio>from what i can tell, chknet is some thing where criminals trade stolen creditcard info or something
00:38<sussudio>so, i have that in my google history now.
00:38<Sqrt{not}>why give any info to google?
00:39<sussudio>they don't ask, just take.
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00:45-!-jpw is "..." on #debian-offtopic #debian
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00:46<sussudio>that was 100% marwan again.
00:48<aloo_shu>the world needs to know
00:48-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.103.134] has quit [Quit: I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world.]
00:50-!-noVideo [~SubSucker@113.67.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
00:50-!-noVideo is "realname" on #debian
00:50<noVideo>hi, someone could help me... problems with second screen and resolution
00:56<enyc>noVideo: ever worked on this system wtih linux? what debian version now? .....
00:56<noVideo>11
00:56<noVideo>not its my first tiem with two screens
00:57<noVideo>i have one by hdmi and second by vga
00:57<enyc>noVideo: debian 11bullsye ... desktop type (MATE xfce etc etc..>) ?
00:57-!-SZO [~anon@192.30.89.67] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:57<noVideo>11.1
00:58<enyc>noVideo: in some cases I've had old vga cables that don't connect the "DDC" so system can't detect proper resolution and you tend to get only 1024x768 whatever etc
00:58<noVideo>bullseye
00:58<enyc>noVideo: is the hdmi monitor at right resolution and the VGA monitor not working right resolution?
00:58<noVideo>ok ... iwill try with other calbe
00:58<noVideo>cable*
00:59<enyc>noVideo: you didn't really answer fo me (a) what Desktop Environment (GNOME mate xfce etc...>) (b) what the actual 'problem' is ?
01:01<noVideo>fuck
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01:01-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
01:01<noVideo>i change cable and work
01:01-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
01:01<sney>!next
01:01<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
01:01<noVideo>i had 4 weeks find drivers
01:02<noVideo>@enyc thanks
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03:49<smith21>hello all, i do have a problem that i need an expert on:
03:49<smith21>what i want to achieve is, to do a full system update on a running system.
03:49<smith21>I do this by copying an image to the hdd using dd (which works) and then try to mount the partitions of the new layout (which doesnt work).
03:49<smith21>I tried using partprobe and blockdev --rereadpt to reread the partition table, but had no success.
03:50<smith21>Any ideas?
03:51<sep>smith21, ? why the elaborate dd scheme ? and not the normal debian upgrade using apt ?
03:51<smith21>I should add that i pivot_root to a tmpfs prior to dding
03:52<smith21>because i prepare the the rootfs in advance in order to upgrade a lot of machines
03:52<smith21>this script will be part of an update package
03:53<smith21>the target machines arew likely to have no internet access when being updated
03:54<sep>so you unmount everything from the disk. so nothing is using any old partitions. dd an image to the disk, but when you do check the disk the partitions are not as you expected?
03:55<smith21>right
03:55<smith21>i get the following errors:
03:56<smith21>mount: special device /dev/sda2 does not exist
03:56<smith21>mount: special device /dev/sda4 does not exist
03:56<smith21>am i allowed to post linkis here?
03:56<sep>if you try partx -d /dev/sda do you get them same partitions
03:56<sep>smith21, absolutly rather links then whole pages of output
03:56<smith21>yes but mounting then doesnt work
03:56<smith21>https://superuser.com/questions/1684100/writing-image-to-hard-drive-and-mount-it-without-reboot
03:57<sep>is /proc/partitions updated to show the same partitions ?
03:57<smith21>i posted the question in greter detail there
03:57<smith21>let me check
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03:57<jm_>you're trying to replace / or what?
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03:58<smith21>i'm trying to completely overwrite /dev/sda
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03:58<smith21>thats why im using pivot_root to a tmpfs before
03:58<jm_>yeah the fact that / is there is probably causing that - see if kernel says anything about it
03:59<smith21>gets unmounted before using dd
03:59<smith21>the new / is in the tmpfs thenm
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04:01<jm_>you only do umount -l on it, does it actually succeeds without -l?
04:01<smith21>i think not, thats why i used -l
04:02<jm_>exactly my point
04:02<jm_>see if kernel says anything (dmesg command)
04:02<smith21>thats where i suspected the problem before, but i didnt know how to solve that
04:02<sep>smith21, it is probably still busu
04:03<smith21>i use fuser -vm /oldroot to check for busy stuff but the script also runs there
04:03<smith21>how would i continue the script while killing all processes on /
04:05<sep>smith21, dd the disk you boot on is generally tricky... that is why most imaging systems start with pxeboot
04:05<sep>optionally a usb stick or something similar
04:06<smith21>thats not an option
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04:07<smith21>i do have a device where one would upload a specific update package via sftp and then the script is run
04:08<smith21>i will try killing all processes before unmounting and removing -l when unmounting
04:09<smith21>but i suspect it will also terminate my script
04:10<sep>perhaps split it into 2 parts. one parts sets up tempfs and pivot root. and starts the second part of the script from the now tempfs root; then disowns the new running script so the first part can cleanly exit
04:11<smith21>how would i do that? when calling the seconds script from the first, that wouldnt get me anywhere
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04:21<sep>start the new script in the background, and disown the new pid from the calling script
04:22<sep>or some such thing
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04:38<smith21>i will try that
04:39<smith21>thank you
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04:41<user01>is there any reason for a normal user to choose a debianedu netinstall iso over a regular debian netinstall iso?
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04:43<user01>i cant even really tell the difference maybe just more packages installed by default
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04:52<user01>is there a way to run a videos as screensavers on two different monitors?
04:53<user01>actually wanted to have short clips on a playlist run randomly at different times on two different monitors
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04:54<user01>so video 5.mp4 is randomly selected, runs on monitor 1, video 3.mp4 is randomly selected plays on monitor 2, etc.
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05:30<schubisu>user01: I can't really tell you myself, but you may want to ask that debianedu netinstall question in #debian-edu
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07:22<Seveas> /win 30
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07:37<buffoon>Hi! is there a way I can monitor the GPU usage of processes? I've got a FirePro V7900 (radeon driver module)
07:37<Tj>is keyring.debian.org no longer serving archive signing keys? not finding keys for 0x0E98404D386FA1D9 or 0x648ACFD622F3D138 (respectively, buster and bullseye archive automatic signing keys)
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07:44<Tj>weird that I had to fetch them from keyserver.ubuntu.com
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08:20<bremner>I think the canonical (forgive the pun) method is the debian-keyring package
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08:20<bremner>dunno if that server should still be serving the keys
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09:49<darknightcore>hello?
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10:37<bremner>!next
10:37<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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10:39<mastertroll>I want to maintain some abandoned packages
10:39<mastertroll>gimme a list
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10:39<jelly>mastertroll: install how-can-i-help, peruse
10:40<mastertroll>lol
10:40<mastertroll>I don't install anything
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10:40<mastertroll>give me the list on the debian.org domain
10:41<jelly>you will have a real hard time maintaining debian packages without a debian installation, dude
10:42<kveroneau>We should call the wiki page for abandoned packages, the Debian package orphanage. The page where people can go to pick and adapt a package of their own.
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10:42<jelly>can you master an installation of a single package for a start, mastertroll?
10:44<jelly>kveroneau: the process of relinquishing control of a package by a maintainer is already called orphaning
10:44<jelly>so that kind of tracks
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10:46<mastertroll>I'm master in erasing tracks buddy
10:46<jelly>sure you are, elrey
10:46<mastertroll>the KING
10:46<mastertroll>yup
10:46<jelly>can't even change IPs when switching networks
10:47<mastertroll>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRChz-OYi9o
10:47<mastertroll>I don't need to switch IP
10:47<mastertroll>why I should?
10:47-!-mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ
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10:48<jelly>!next
10:48<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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10:49<russian>apt remove jelly --purge
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10:56<scorpion2185[m]> I tried to permanently start dunst on boot : systemctl enable --user dunst.service
10:56-!-user01 [~user01@c-68-32-37-201.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:56<scorpion2185[m]>The unit files have no installation config (WantedBy=, RequiredBy=, Also= [...]
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11:06<jeremiah>scorpion2185[m]: Were you able to to enable 'dunst'?
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11:44<scorpion2185[m]>No
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11:47<scorpion2185[m]>`The unit files have no installation config (WantedBy=, RequiredBy=, Also=,Alias= settings in the [Install] section, and DefaultInstance= for template units). This means they are not meant to be enabled using systemctl.?
11:47-!-bangkok is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #oftc
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11:48<bangkok>community expectations?
11:48<bangkok>wut?
11:48<bangkok>nice
11:48<bangkok>What's the topic?
11:49<bangkok>I have a problem with Debian
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11:49<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: where did you get this unit file?
11:49<bangkok>Can we remove Taiwan from the countries at Install?
11:49<bangkok>Taiwan is not a country
11:49-!-mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ
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11:50<scorpion2185[m]>somiaj: I already have dunst installed I just trying to use it
11:50<ChmEarl>somiaj++
11:50<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: though it appears to me that a unit file may not be the best approach (since you probably want a DE/WM running to use it)
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11:51<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: can you run it from a terminal in your WM?
11:51<scorpion2185[m]>how do I enable dunst on boot ?
11:51<scorpion2185[m]>yes , WARNING: Unknown keyboard shortcut: 'ctrl+grave' now I have notifications again
11:52<somiaj>to me it almost seems like throwing a .desktop file into your autostart directory, or running it in your Xsession or using your WM startup scripts would be preferable to running it at boot, since how can it notify you if you hvaen't logged into xorg?
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11:52<scorpion2185[m]>why no more notifications ? i used to have them
11:53<somiaj>I'd suggest just running it from your startup scripts with your WM, as that seems more appropriate given the package description. As for the actual software, I haven't used it, so can't help debug why notifications are no longer there.
11:53<scorpion2185[m]>I used `systemctl restart --user dunst.service` to reload the config and on the next boot no notifications
11:53<somiaj>If it is running before you have logged into your xorg, it might not have a DISPLAY to attach to
11:54<scorpion2185[m]>so no way to enable the service? and what was before to providing notifications then?
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11:55<scorpion2185[m]>added to autostart
11:55<somiaj>Again, I don't think this is best thought of as a service, it needs an running xorg session to display notifications to, it should just be something you start with our Xsession (from my limited understanding)
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11:56<somiaj>It appears to get its notifications from dbus. So maybe enabling the service causes it to run before your Xsession and dbus is fully up, thus making it just run in the background with no where to send the notifications.
11:56<somiaj>At this point you should dig into the dunst docs a bit more
11:56<scorpion2185[m]>what was providing notifications before? it was always dunst?
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11:57<somiaj>I don't know, anyways, it appears that the unit file is used by dbus, so when dbus loads it triggers various things.
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11:57<somiaj>https://github.com/dunst-project/dunst/issues/314
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11:59<scorpion2185[m]>>The service was enabled system-wide by the Debian packaging, because at the time it was installed, it had WantedBy=default.target (which I think is a bug - it shouldn't be started before the GUI
11:59<somiaj>yea, the service file provided is meant to be launched via dbus and not manually enabled as you have done
12:00<somiaj>https://sources.debian.org/src/dunst/1.5.0-1/dunst.systemd.service.in/
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12:00<somiaj>that looks like it should be started with dbus
12:01<somiaj>there is no WantedBy there
12:02<scorpion2185[m]>it stated that if there is NO WantedBy etc. This means they are not meant to be enabled using systemctl.
12:03<somiaj>correct, you don't want to enable this service
12:03<somiaj>this service is started with dbus, when dbus is launched and you log in with your user
12:04<scorpion2185[m]>So it is supposed to start automcatically, isn't it? why do I need to start it?
12:04<somiaj>This I do not know, but I would look at dbus and why it isn't triggering running this when it is started after you login
12:05<scorpion2185[m]>journalctl -something?
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12:06<somiaj>did you change the service and add the WantedBy= or enable it? do you have a copy of this unit file in /etc/systemd/system?
12:07<scorpion2185[m]>I only changed the local config , I have original unit file
12:07<scorpion2185[m]>and `systemctl restart --user dunst.service` to reload config
12:08<Tj>where's the file that lists foreign-architectures that dpkg --print-foreign-architectures reports from?
12:09<somiaj>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=941855 and https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=986405
12:09<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/941855 in dunst (open): «dunst: Daily systemd errors: "Failed to start Dunst notification daemon."»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-10-06; last modified: 2019-11-04.
12:09<@jelly>Tj: /var/lib/dpkg/arch seems to keep the native one and all the foreigns
12:10<somiaj>it appears that dbus doesn't actually start the service until a notification comes through and not at start, anyways, I can't really give much more details, but I would revert back to the defaults and look through the logs to see if you can figure out why it isn't running correctly. The most common issue I see is DISPLAY isn't set correctly, which may depend on how you log into xorg
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12:12<scorpion2185[m]>I just changed geometry field in ·~/.config/dunst/dunstrc
12:12<Tj>jelly: thanks! just hit a weird issue on a Raspbian install where it tried to fetch package lists for i386 so trying to determine when (datewise) that was added, and how !
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12:13<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: if you revert back to no config/defaults, does it start working again?
12:13<@jelly>I don't know if timestamp for --add-foreign-architecure is kept anywhere
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12:14<scorpion2185[m]>I will have to reboot also to test if notify-send fix it, notifications triggered by element and volume don't wokr
12:15<@jelly>Tj: did you like that answer? You won't BELIEVE what this does! strace -f -eopen,openat dpkg --print-foreign-architectures
12:15<Tj>jelly: no, but it is on /var/lib/dpkg/arch :)
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12:16<Tj>stat tells me " 2021-08-02 14:28:05"
12:16<@jelly>(applicable for other situations like "which file does command foo get its info from"
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12:26<Tj>jelly: yeah, strace would have been my next port of call but I knew it was in /var/lib/dpkg/ somewhere, but my eyes missed "arch" when I looked. I've removed it now. Another issue, though ...
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12:27<Tj>... bullseye install, enabled bulsseye-backports, but apt can't find the gpg keys for it. Checked debian-archive-keyring and debian-keyring are installed and cannot find another likely package with them in using apt-cache search -n keyring
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12:34<Timtonix>hi
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12:41<@jelly>fresh bullseye install?
12:44<@jelly>-backports are supposed to Just Work™ then I think
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12:54<Tj>jelly: looks like I messed it up at some point and it was stuck with an older 2017 version, sorry for the noise
12:55<Howard>hey there
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12:55<Sqrt{not}>hi Howard
12:56<Howard>this is my first time on here. Not really sure what it's about or how this works, but it seems interesting
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12:57<Sqrt{not}>it's an old-fashioned chat environment. this channel is for debian tech support. there a many other channels.
12:58<Howard>okay thank you
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12:59<Sqrt{not}>%new2irc
12:59<dselect>You are chatting on IRC. IRC is the original group chat. Similar to platforms like Slack, Matrix, or Discord, IRC was invented in the 1980s and formalized with RFC 1459 in 1993. This channel, #debian, is for help with the debian operating system. Ask us a debian support question, or read more about IRC at https://netsplit.de or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC
13:00<Sqrt{not}>Howard, if you just hang out here, you will see people ask and answer questions about debian.
13:06<Howard>Yeah. This seems like a cool place. I'll just stay and see. I haven't used debian extensively enough yet to really have any intelligent questions. I've so far pretty much just been using it for web surfing. Today I just decided to check out some of the other things on here and I stumbled across this.
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14:54<scorpion2185[m]>somiaj: yes if I remove the config it autostarts
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15:02<mooff>having quite the conversation with dpkg 🤓
15:04<scorpion2185[m]>somiaj: I rebooted again with custom config and it's working
15:04<scorpion2185[m]>!really
15:04<dpkg>yes, scorpion2185[m]
15:05<mooff>!lol
15:05<dpkg>If you want to laugh, use heh or hah or bwahahaha. lol doesn't sound like laughter at all and makes you look like an AOL user.
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15:05<bremner>lol
15:06<MSM757>Hello. on Debian 11 with KDE, when i try to open an application that needs permissions, like the KDE-software-properties, or KsystemLog, i enter the correct password. But it always returns this error pam_unix(sudo:auth): conversation failed
15:06<MSM757>Any ideas?
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15:07<MSM757>SU and Sudo and sudo -i all still work. and my sudoers file is correct.
15:07<sarnold>lol
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15:08<sarnold>MSM757: hrm, I'm surprised a kde thing is going through sudo. that's pretty weird. I'd have expected them to be built with polkit instead, or something like polkit but for kde
15:09<MSM757>I think it's just a debian thing. Because the prompt is asking for password for root. on other distros in KDE it's asking for current user.
15:09<MSM757>the way Debian does it's user creation i think is why this happens
15:10<MSM757>But this error only happens sometimes.
15:10<MSM757>Not always. very strange
15:10<MSM757>The system log only shows the same error that the diolog box does. So there's nothing helpful there.
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15:12<MSM757>searching for the problem on Google I didn't find any post related to Debian. But the Arch forums, Ubuntu forums, and SUSE forums all had threads related to the same error. But nothing helpful.
15:12<tuxd3v>hello does any one knows if ssh in debian already accept ssh keys based in eliptic curve ed25519( the same as wireguard.. )
15:13<Habbie>tuxd3v, i've been using ed25519 keys for years, i think it worked even in 9
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15:14<tuxd3v>Habbie, many thanks
15:14<tuxd3v>how does you generate them?
15:14<MSM757>So i focused on the Ubuntu thread, since it's closley related to Debian. But you know how that goes. 90% of the people responding on those is just a bunch of "i have that problem too". crap. Typical for that crowd. So many users, and not a brain in sight. LOL!!! Just kidding. :)
15:14<Habbie>tuxd3v, ssh-keygen -t ed25519
15:15<tuxd3v>ssh-keygen -t ed25519
15:15<tuxd3v>Habbie, many thanks :)
15:15<MSM757>Everything still works as it should through terminal. So i'm thinking it's a KDE specific bug. But i can't find any proof of that. Or how to possibly solve it.
15:17<tuxd3v>MSM757, SU
15:17<tuxd3v>and sudo are 2 diferent things
15:18<MSM757>i know
15:18<MSM757>But the conversation between sudo and su is what the error is
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15:19<MSM757>Because the GUI prompts are asking for the root password. So it's using the sudo privliages by the current user to pass it over to sudo.
15:19<MSM757>at least that's how it's explained in the forum i read
15:19<mooff>what happens when you do "sudo -i", MSM757
15:20<MSM757>it drops into a root bash prompt
15:20<mooff>but for the "pam_unix(sudo:auth): conversation failed" error i'd have guessed missing polkit bus or something, too
15:20<tuxd3v>mooff, #metoo
15:20<MSM757>I suspect something similar. But not sure exactly what. It's an intermitant problem.
15:21<MSM757>sometimes when i reboot, it starts working fine. other sessions it's broke
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15:21<MSM757>i'm not sure it's using polkit. i think it's tyring to use Kwallet
15:22<MSM757>which i hate btw
15:22<MSM757>LOL
15:22<mooff>can you post more of your journal log?
15:23<MSM757>I don't have it in front of me. it was on the other Laptop. i can get post it in a little bit.
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15:25<MSM757>There was nothing in there that seemed out of place, only that one error. There was a pipewire and pulseaudio crash in there. But that's unrealted. and i solved that. That machine has no bluetooth hardware, but discord kept triggering pulseaudio to initilize bluez to look for audio devices. and since there is no bluetooth hardware, it was just crashing in a loop.
15:25<MSM757>I fixed that by uninstalling bluez deamon.
15:25<MSM757>But that's an unrelated problem
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15:27<savage1one>best distribution to use for a i5 laptop 8gb
15:27<savage1one>using sparkylinux at moment
15:28<savage1one>8gb ram
15:28<kveroneau>I use Debian Bullseye on my old i5 Thinkpad from 2010, it runs KDE Plasma, and works just as good as my beefy desktop PC with an AMD Zen2 EPYC processor. This thinkpad also only has 2GB of RAM.
15:29<kveroneau>It has Intel integrated graphics with desktop effects enabled with no noticable performance issues. I usually run multiple KVMs and actively develop software on it.
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15:30<savage1one>wow i can bearly run pupylinux on 2gb ram
15:30<kveroneau>Really? That's surprising.
15:30<tuxd3v>savage1one, #me too
15:30<savage1one>wihout it freezing
15:30<kveroneau>I do heavy customize the installation tho, like not installing stuff I never use like Avachi and the Bluetooth stack.
15:31<kveroneau>After boot, Plasma takes just under 1GB of RAM on it.
15:31<tuxd3v>kde 3.5 trinity would be my guess
15:31<Habbie>avahi is light, though
15:31<Habbie>if you miss it, do put it back :)
15:31<savage1one>well i got 8gb to share
15:31<kveroneau>It's KDE Plasma. I'll definately make a YouTube video show it off now since it seems impossible to most lol
15:32<savage1one>does wifi drivers work out the box
15:32<tuxd3v>kveroneau, with the magical tools of video editing, you can even run it in 16KB of Ram, or even less :)
15:32<kveroneau>Just checked the sticker, it's definately an i5 Thinkpad.
15:32<kveroneau>I'll grab the exact model for you.
15:33<kveroneau>It's a Thinkpad E531
15:33<kveroneau>I'll live stream it then lol
15:33<tuxd3v>:)
15:33<savage1one>does webcam work on it
15:34<MSM757>Ok. the error happened again. When i went to the log, this was in there, at the time of the error and repeated 7 times.
15:34<MSM757>[session uid=1000 pid=746] Activated service 'org.kde.runners.baloo' failed: Process org.kde.runners.baloo exited with status 255
15:34<kveroneau>It's been running Debian since the day I bought it. :) Best purchase I've ever made tbh
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15:34<MSM757>could my flatpaks be screwing my system up somehow?
15:34<MSM757>they shouldn't but the log would seem to suggjest it
15:34<kveroneau>After install, I highly recommend running "debfoster" on machines with less than usual resources to slim down the overall installation.
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15:35<savage1one>thanks
15:35<savage1one>okay
15:36<kveroneau>Webcam works, WiFi works(iwlwifi), and the intel graphics work out the box with the FLOSS drivers.
15:36<savage1one>nice
15:36<kveroneau>Only thing I never got working on it was the fingerprint scanner, but I no longer care about that.
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15:36<tuxd3v>exit status 255 is a pain is the ass**
15:36<kveroneau>Battery is still pretty amazing, given it's age too.
15:37<tuxd3v>because you just never know what happened in fact, its an out of range :(
15:37<kveroneau>I recently upgraded it to use an SSD, and wow! It feels like a brand new laptop now.
15:37<Habbie>ssd upgrades are magical
15:37<savage1one>its the distribution makes it last longer mine lasts 1.5 days
15:37<kveroneau>Boots in like... maybe 10 seconds or so to SDDM, and logs in really fast as well.
15:37<kveroneau>Probably less than 10 seconds, thinking about it.
15:38<savage1one>on sparky 1-1.5 days
15:38<kveroneau>Habbie, they really are. And until you do it on an older machine, you won't realize how magically those upgrades really are.
15:38<Habbie>yes
15:39<savage1one>also what linux distribution can you use on a nec mobilepro 900
15:39<savage1one>mips machine
15:40<savage1one>intel xscaLE 400MHZ
15:40<kveroneau>Debian does support MIPS still, so... Debian!! ;)
15:40<savage1one>THANKU AGAIN!
15:40<kveroneau>Just with a lighter WM haha
15:40<savage1one>i c
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15:41<kveroneau>Yeah at that speed, I wouldn't recommend anything to heavy. IceWM is a nice choice.
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15:41<savage1one>okay
15:42<MSM757>When asked for my password through the KDE gui prompt. It just says "Conversation with SU Failed". and the jounal log shows that error i posted above. I have debian KDE on 4 machines. That's the only one being difficult. So i don't know what the issue is.
15:42<kveroneau>IceWM is merely just a really slim Window Manager with an included panel. It's resource footprint should be pretty minimal overall. There's also ones like OpenBox and other even smaller WMs for X. That's if you plan on using X.
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15:43<savage1one>okay
15:43<scorpion2185[m]>what's the smallet WM?
15:43<savage1one>good question
15:43<kveroneau>During install, I wouldn't select "Standard System Utilities" from the task selector, and instead just install what you might need after install. It doesn't seem like this machine is going to support a huge number of background servcies running, let alone the additional disk space for what that installs.
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15:44<kveroneau>I think ratpoison is one of the smallest.
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15:44<kveroneau>But not really very user-friendly...
15:44<at0m>scorpion2185[m]: i like fluxbox on light machines. or when i want snappy..
15:45<savage1one>pea size installation preffered
15:45<savage1one>for me
15:45<kveroneau>IceWM I found is a good middle ground for user-friendliness, speed, and resource usage.
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15:46<kveroneau>But you can install as many WMs as you want and try each one. Also, you might not want to install an X Display Manager on such a low spec machine.
15:46<savage1one>at the moment i have a pansonic toughbook 1.2mhz 1gb running puppylinux 7.5
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15:47<savage1one>a fujistu running archlinux at 2ghz 2gb
15:47<savage1one>and a dell running sparkylinux well
15:47<savage1one>8gb
15:47<savage1one>ram
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15:47<kveroneau>It'd be better to either auto-login if you don't care about the security, this can be done via a simple start-up script to launch right into X.org with a defined user, like the Raspberry Pi does, or log-in via the standard TTY Login program and run "startx" after, or add "startx" to your shell profile script, but make sure to check for the DISPLAY variable before auto-running "startx" or you might have trouble opening an xterm.
15:48<abrotman>dpkg: kiosk
15:48<dpkg>from memory, kiosk is /bin/su -c "/usr/bin/X11/startx" - kiosk (/usr/sbin/kiosk); kk:2345:respawn:/usr/sbin/kiosk (/etc/inittab); telinit q, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/webkiosk/
15:48<kveroneau>Ah, perfect!
15:48<savage1one>i forgot my root password
15:48<savage1one>where do u fid it
15:48<savage1one>lol
15:48<abrotman>a bit old .. but could hint
15:48<abrotman>dpkg: tell savage1one about ifrp
15:48<kveroneau>But we do live in a Systemd world now, so this help text should be updated to reflect that.
15:49<MSM757>i reset the Kwallet. Maybe that will help. i dunno. i have to go cook dinner. So i'll be back later.
15:49<savage1one>thanks
15:49<scorpion2185[m]>,i ratpoison
15:49<savage1one>everyone
15:49<judd>Package ratpoison (x11, optional) in bullseye/amd64: keyboard-only window manager. Version: 1.4.9-1+b1; Size: 141.5k; Installed: 369k; Homepage: http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/ratpoison
15:49<kveroneau>savage1one, it's not stored in plain-text, and is hashed. You'll need to just change it. If you have phyical access, that's super easy.
15:50<scorpion2185[m]>I use openbox have you ever seen the dock ? the one with a section in obconf wtf
15:50<kveroneau>judd, yup, that's what I mentioned above as the smallest WM available, just not very user-friendly.
15:50<scorpion2185[m]>only keyboard?
15:50<savage1one>besides knoppix what is similar in size
15:51<savage1one>50mb
15:51<savage1one>that works
15:51<savage1one>knoppix is 50mb in total size
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15:51<kveroneau>I honestly prefer "awesome" over ratposion when using more resource limited WMs.
15:51<savage1one>damn small linux
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15:52<savage1one>beside ths imeant
15:52<kveroneau>Like look at the photos this guy took of awesome running! Just stunning: https://awesomewm.org/
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15:53<scorpion2185[m]>,i awesome
15:53<judd>Package awesome (x11, optional) in bullseye/amd64: highly configurable X window manager. Version: 4.3-5+b1; Size: 917.0k; Installed: 2912k; Homepage: https://awesomewm.org/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/awesome
15:53<kveroneau>I use awesome on my 16GB Zen2 machine when I want a zero distraction environment, and need to work with multiple remote hosts at a time.
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15:55<kveroneau>It uses mouse tracking and a tiling window manager, so it makes it so seamless to move from one host to another without even thinking, just slighly move my mouse and I'm good.
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15:56<kveroneau>Keyboard shortcuts for moving between windows is a pain, as it could involve a lot of key pressed to get to where exactly you want to go, with mouse tracking, I just point like Xerox always wanted us to do. :)
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15:57<Sqrt{not}>MSM757, one suggestion, if your problem occurs on one machine, and not another: compare the output of `groups` (from your regular user) to see if the problem machine is missing some group membership
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16:19<cmo2334>How can I download a package from APT for offline installation?
16:20<cmo2334>I have tried the --download-only option and copied the cache. When I install online however, the package has dependency problems
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16:22<sarnold>cmo2334: the apt-offline package can help with this
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16:23<cmo2334>I am not familiar with apt-offline, is this included with apt?
16:23<cmo2334>It also does not seem to appear in the package repo
16:24<sarnold>hmm, is it only in ubuntu now? that'd be a shame
16:25<sarnold>cmo2334: hmm how are you lookinig for it? https://packages.debian.org/stable/admin/apt-offline shows it still available
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16:26<cmo2334>I have buster main, contrib, and non-free repos available. I don't see this package
16:27<Habbie>i see it in buster-backports, not in buster
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16:27<Habbie>,pkg apt-offline
16:27<Habbie>i forgot how the bot works
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16:28<somiaj>,i apt-offline
16:28<judd>Package apt-offline (admin, optional) in bullseye/amd64: offline APT package manager. Version: 1.8.2-2; Size: 50.7k; Installed: 240k; Homepage: https://github.com/rickysarraf/apt-offline
16:29<cmo2334>I added backports, I see the package now
16:29<somiaj>,v apt-offline
16:29<judd>Package: apt-offline on amd64 -- stretch: 1.7.2; buster-backports: 1.8.2-1~bpo10+1; bookworm: 1.8.2-2; bullseye: 1.8.2-2; sid: 1.8.2-2
16:29<cmo2334>what is backports again?
16:29<somiaj>ahh yea, looks like it was remove dfrom buster for some reason
16:29<somiaj>!backports
16:29<dpkg>A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
16:30<somiaj>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=871656
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16:30<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/871656 in apt-offline (closed, security, confirmed, fixed-upstream): «apt-offline: Does not validate Packages or .deb files in bundle»; severity: serious; opened: 2017-08-10; last modified: 2020-03-14.
16:30<somiaj>that is why it wasn't in buster
16:30<sarnold>eek
16:30<cmo2334>It doesn't work on my machine, so can't apt-offline unfortunately
16:31<cmo2334>is there any way to pull dependencies with --download-only?
16:31<cmo2334>It seems that is the issue I'm running into, the dependencies are not pulled properly
16:31<somiaj>nope
16:31<somiaj>you'll have to do it manually, you can use something like apt-rdepends to get a list
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16:33<cmo2334>what about the /var/cache/apt/archive directory, would this folder contain the dependencies if I install the software?
16:33<sarnold>if apt downloaded them recently, perhaps
16:33<sarnold>I wouldn't expect it to be comprehensive
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16:34<cmo2334>lets say I have a clean install, and download only 1 piece of software
16:34<cmo2334>would it include the dependencies?
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16:36<jdccdevel>I'm having some issues with my network configuration on Debian 11. I'm setting up a network bridge, and for some reason the physical interfaces are still getting autoconfigured DHCP addresses (i.e. 169.254.x.y/16) and changes to /etc/network/interfaces are sometimes not being applied on reboot. What am I missing?
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16:37<somiaj>cmo2334: It depends on the package you want to install, if you can't use a tool like apt-offline or apt to figure it out for you, you need to manually follow the dependency tree.
16:38<somiaj>but without telling us what package, sometimes it is just downloading a few .debs, other times it is downloading tons of .debs, really depends on what is installed and what you want to install. Apt makes things easier, since it computes the dependency tree for you.
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16:38<somiaj>sounds like you are in a situation you need to compute this yourself, but apt-rdpends can really help
16:39<sarnold>it might be less effort to fix apt-offline
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16:39<sarnold>afterall it's been doing more or less this for twenty years
16:39<sarnold>or more? heh
16:44<cmo2334>In the past I have taken the files from the /var/cache/apt/archives directory and run `sudo dpkg -i *.deb` to install the software
16:45<cmo2334>This seems to have worked in the past, but now I run into dependency problems
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16:53<jdccdevel>Does anyone know why I'm getting an autoconfigured IP address despite specifying "iface eno1 inet manual" in /etc/network/interfaces ?
16:55<jdccdevel>It's a port that's configured to be part of a network bridge, so it shouldn't have it's own IP.
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16:55<Habbie>jdccdevel, any chance you have dhcpcd running?
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16:56<jdccdevel>Habbie: It's installed, but not running. (dhcpcd service is disabled.)
16:57<z386>gday!
16:57<jdccdevel>Habbie: Should I uninstall it?
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16:57<samsepi>hello
16:57<Habbie>jdccdevel, if you are sure no interfaces rely on it, it's worth the experiment maybe
16:57<samsepi>I'm new here
16:57<jdccdevel>I'll do that right now.
16:57<sarnold>welcome samsepi
16:58<samsepi>Thank you, do you have any recommended channels or servers I should join?
16:58<z386>samsepi, i love debian.. u?
16:58<samsepi>I love deb too
16:58<z386>its incredible
16:58<samsepi>Im on Kali
16:58<z386>cant stop loving it
16:58<z386>i made my own live iso with i3
16:59<z386>running from memory
16:59<jdccdevel>Habbie: Removed, and it's rebooting now.
16:59<z386>faster than nvme ;P
16:59<Sqrt{not}>jdccdevel, those 169.254.x.x addresses are "link local" addresses
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17:00<Habbie>Sqrt{not}, but who or what sets those in Debian?
17:00<Habbie>(i didn't think to ask if it was 169.254, good call there though!)
17:00<Habbie>oh jdccdevel said that earlier, missed that
17:00<jdccdevel>Sqrt{not}: They should not be set, the network port is part of a bridge.
17:00<z386>who likes new ubuntu version?
17:01<Sqrt{not}>I think those might be the fallback, if it is supposed to be provided by dhcp, but not succeeding/
17:01<jdccdevel>They're also what the DHCP Client will set if it doesn't get a response.
17:01<somiaj>can't avahi set those as fallbacks?
17:01<Habbie>Sqrt{not}, i've never seen them on Debian, is why i ask - so i'm wondering what software does that
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17:02<z386>long live to IRC!
17:02<z386>gday 2u all folks!
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17:05<jdccdevel>Ok, so weird things on reboot. Now eno1 (the bridge port) still has an ipv6 address, but no IPv4. However, eno2 (Which has a static IP) has a static IP AND a 169.254.x.y address.
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17:08<Sqrt{not}>jdccdevel, is it possible that systemd networking is "helping" ? Sometimes /etc/network/interfaces configuration gets implemented weirdly if systemd involves itself?
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17:09<jdccdevel>somiaj: I just looked that up. avahi-autoipd can apparently do that. I can't see how to tell if that part is turned on though.
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17:11<somiaj>jdccdevel: ps fax | grep avahi (is it running?)
17:12<somiaj>more and more it is getting installed by default due to some recommended package (often because some users actually want these network auto-detect devices tools)
17:13<jdccdevel>Sqrt{not}: I don't know... how could I tell?
17:13<kveroneau>Yeah, I always "debfoster" the avahi-daemon on every install.
17:14<jdccdevel>somiaj: The primary daemon is there, and a chroot helper. It doesn't look like avahi-autoipd is running though? (Unless as part of the primary daemon.)
17:15<somiaj>I belive the daemon will auto assign the ip if dhcp fails
17:16<somiaj>but whenever I see a 169.x.x.x ip, it is often due to avahi
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17:18<jdccdevel>somiaj: I've disabled avahi, and I'm restarting again.
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17:23<jdccdevel>somiaj: No Luck, both physical interfaces have 169.254 addresses now.
17:23<jdccdevel>Is there maybe some sort of udev hook?
17:24<jdccdevel>Something where systemd is "helping" as Sqrt{not} suggested by adding the 169.254 addresses as soon as the interfaces are detected?
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17:25<somiaj>jdccdevel: is avahi still running, I think it runs based off of hooks than just a service?
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17:25<somiaj>so check if avahi is running or not (I have uninstalled it instead of disabled)
17:25<somiaj>you may have to mask the units
17:26<jdccdevel>Nope, avahi is not running.
17:26<somiaj>anyways, systemd-networkd is disabled by default, so for the most part it should be leaving your network alone (unless you have enabled it). What you have described has happened to me due to avahi, I can't think of anything else that would be doing tha
17:26<somiaj>what do you use to configure your network?
17:26<jdccdevel>manually edit the interfaces file.
17:27<Tj>jdccdevel: are you using dhclient?
17:27<jdccdevel>have you ever heard of something called netplan? Apparently it's caused similar issues in Ubuntu 20.04 ?
17:27<Tj>jdccdevel: if so, and avahi-autoipd is installed, it adds a dhclient hook script at /etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/avahi-autoipd
17:28<somiaj>maybe uninstall/purge avahi
17:28<jdccdevel>Tj: No, everything should be statically configured. dhclient should never run.
17:28<somiaj>if you don't want to use it
17:29<somiaj>from the interfaces file you shared, dhcp is running
17:29<somiaj>oh wait, nevermind, I'm looking at my intefaces file...dumb me
17:29<somiaj>jdccdevel: care to share your interfaces file and the output of 'ip a'
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17:31<somiaj>for systemd, you can check /etc/systemd/network/
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17:33<Tj>easier to do "networkctl list" - without any config it will show 'unmanaged'
17:34<somiaj>ahh nice
17:34<Tj>jdccdevel: you're using ifupdown - then /etc/network/if-up.d/avahi-autoipd
17:34<Tj>I've not used ifupdown in a decade!
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17:34<jdccdevel>https://pastebin.com/CuyBtFrY
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17:36<jdccdevel>networkctl list shows all interfaces unmanaged.
17:36<somiaj>yea it is probably avahi-autoipd as an if-up.d script being run when you bring the interface up but don't assing an ip to it
17:37<somiaj>you might want to just purge avahi-autoipd if you don't want to use it
17:38<jdccdevel>somiaj: The really strange part is there IS an ip address assigned to it.
17:38<jdccdevel>So, I don't have the avahi-autoipd package installed. Just other parts of avahi.
17:38<jdccdevel>(I didn't realize it had it's own package.)
17:39<Tj>bug in the script! https://sources.debian.org/src/avahi/0.8-5/debian/avahi-autoipd.if-up/#L20
17:39<Tj>it doesn't ignore "manual"
17:39<Tj>jdccdevel: really? so that isn't it ?
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17:40<somiaj>what is the output of dpkg -l avahi-autoipd?
17:40<Habbie>Tj, nice find!
17:40<Tj>or "apt list --installed 'avahi*'
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17:41<Tj>Habbie: amazing bug if it affects even systems where it isn't installed :D
17:41<Habbie>lol
17:41<Tj>Damn Facebo^h^h^h^h^h^hMeta verse
17:43<Tj>jdccdevel: are you /sure/ dhcpcd5 isn't installed, because it does IPv4LL addressing
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17:44<jdccdevel>Tj: It was installed, but I removed it... Did it perhaps pull in a separate package that's causing the problem?
17:44<somiaj>jdccdevel: can you provide the output of dpkg -l avahi-autoipd?
17:45<Tj>jdccdevel: the only packages that do IPv4LL are avahi-autoipd and dhcpcd5
17:45<jdccdevel>Tj: un avahi-autoipd <none> <none> (no description available)
17:46<somiaj>Okay, just making sure it wasn't in rc state, that is strange, what other scripts do you have in /etc/network/if-up.d/?
17:46<Tj>other than that, systemd-networkd, *if configured for an interface* /and/ having [Network] LinkLocalAddressing=yes|ipv4
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17:47<somiaj>jdccdevel: comment out the 'auto eno1' in your interfaces file? Does that fix it, you shouldn't need to bring this device up, since it is being configured manually via the bridge (I belive)
17:48<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections -- yea the few examples here don't auto the manual interface, it is brought up/configured via the bridge
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17:51<jdccdevel>somiaj: Interesting... but that still doesn't explain why the eno2 (that isn't a member of the bridge) still gets a autoconfigured IP too?
17:52<somiaj>what is the output of 'ls /etc/network/if-up.d/
17:53<somiaj>I was mostly just looking an eno1, didn't realize eno2 was also getting assigned this ip
17:53<jdccdevel>Also, I have the a very similar config running fine on a debian 10 system... (There it's configured using "allow-hotplug" instead, I changed it to auto since it does less.)
17:53<jdccdevel>root@KVM-Host:~# ls /etc/network/if-up.d/
17:53<jdccdevel>000resolvconf wpasupplicant
17:54<jdccdevel>not sure why I have wpasupplicant installed, the system doesn't even have wifi.
17:54<somiaj>for most devices auto and allow-hotplug are the same (here it is hotplug devices, not cable)
17:54<Tj>wpa_supplicant is there to potentially do 802.1x
17:54<jdccdevel>somiaj: it looks like allow-hotplug sets up a "ifup@device" systemd service.
17:54<somiaj>Yea, I'm not sure what could be assigning these extra ips, the usual culprit doesn't seem to be the problem.
17:55<Tj>somiaj: did you do "networkctl list" yet?
17:55<jdccdevel>I'm going to purge avahi and restart
17:55<jdccdevel>root@KVM-Host:~# networkctl list
17:55<jdccdevel>WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.
17:55<jdccdevel>IDX LINK TYPE OPERATIONAL SETUP
17:55<jdccdevel> 1 lo loopback n/a unmanaged
17:55<jdccdevel> 2 eno1 ether n/a unmanaged
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17:55<Tj>jdccdevel: avahi-daemon etc doesn't do IPv4LL it's just a multicast DNS agent
17:55<Tj>OK, so networkd isn't running, so it isn't that
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17:57<jdccdevel>Sorry, I guess pasting that all at once got me kicked.
17:57<somiaj>yea, termbin is a nice tool for getting quick pastes
17:57<somiaj>!termbin
17:57<dpkg>you can paste to termbin.com from terminal with redirections: try 'nc termbin.com 9999 < /path/to/file', or 'command | nc termbin.com 9999'
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18:01<Tj>I still think this is something to do with dhcpcd5
18:02<jdccdevel>Tj: How can I list the packages that dhcpcd5 would have installed? I've already purged it.
18:03<Tj>jdccdevel: do a search for suspect binaries. "dpkg -S bin/dhcp"
18:03<format_c>jdccdevel: apt-file list dhcpcd5
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18:03<pa>if i remember correctly before (i think it was till Debian 5 or 6, maybe 7) then when using Nautilus to 'connect to server' over ssh (sftp) you could just open a selected file in text editor.. but since the switch to gkt3+ this doesn't seem to work (for me). is there anyway to get this functionality (back)?
18:03<kveroneau>somiaj, thanks for sharing termbin, that's really cool. I'll definately have to start using it.
18:03<pa> i don't like console text editors. but the copying file from server, editing and then copying back, is getting annoying.. any way to improve?
18:04<Tj>jdccdevel: also check for running processses: " ps -efly | grep dhc "
18:04<jdccdevel>Tj: just rebooting now after purging avahi-daemon
18:04<Tj>jdccdevel: avahi-dameon doesn't do IPvLL addressing
18:05<kveroneau>pa, yeah, that's why I've stuck with KDE over the years, KIO Slaves are supported in every KDE application, so I can so sftp:// and many others.
18:05<jdccdevel>Tj: I know, but I'd rather eliminate it entirely right now, since it's a possible issue.
18:05<format_c>pa: When I connect the file browser of Gnome with ssh://userid@server, I can open text files with the GNOME Text Editor (Pluma)
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18:07<pa>format_c: i removed pluma i had some issues with it.. does this only work with pluma, or does it also work for you in other applications?
18:07<jdccdevel>Tj: So, NO More IPv4 autoconfigured IPs! (Still have IPv6 ones though!
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18:07<Tj>for collecting output from several tools in one termbin: either sub-shell "(command1; command2; command3) |& nc termbin.com 9999" or block "{ command1; command2; command3; } |& nc termbin.com 9999 "
18:07<format_c>pa: same works with GVim
18:08<Tj>jdccdevel: well, the IPv4LL wasn't being done by avahi-daemon
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18:09<Tj>jdccdevel: I use avahi-daemon extensively for a variety of things; only avahi-autoipd package does the IPv4LL
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18:10<srdjan>how to install viber om mx 18.3.? hi everyone
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18:10<jdccdevel>Tj: Perhaps there's a bug in the packages, where it includes something that caused the IPv4LL addresses to be created?
18:11<sney>!mxlinux
18:11<dpkg>MX Linux is a popular distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: https://forum.mxlinux.org/. It is related to <antix>. If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian
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18:17<somiaj>I didn't realize the various parts of avahi were seperated out, I've always just purged all the packages. There was probably something else going on, and we just didn't catch it
18:17<Tj>jdccdevel: there isn't
18:18<jdccdevel>Tj: So, It's still doing it! It looks like the Link Local addresses are being created by something else.... I just checked again, and both physical devices have them again.
18:18<Tj>jdccdevel: also, we can prove it wasn't avahi-autoipd because when it does the job it adds a label to the link "ip addr add "$3"/16 brd 169.254.255.255 label "$2:avahi" scope link dev "$2"" - note the "$2:avahi" - but your paste doesn't show that
18:19<pa>ha interesting.. i installed pluma.. and it is indeed working in pluma.. would any know (or willing to test) Geany or VSCodium.. im very curious why those programs (my default text editors) it doesn't work.. if i right click a text file and select these text editors it will open as a empty file.. and if i open the editor and click on open file.. i get a file-browser that doesn't list the sftp location...
18:19<Tj>jdccdevel: like I said I'll bet its dhcp
18:19<jdccdevel>Tj: No label.
18:19<Tj>jdccdevel: "ps -efly | grep dhc"
18:19<jdccdevel>Tj: Nothing, just the grep process.
18:20<Tj>jdccdevel: can you just show us "journalctl -b 0 | nc termbin.com 9999"
18:22<jdccdevel>Tj: Found it! It's something called "conmand" ?
18:23<Tj>conman ?
18:23<Tj>the /other/ network manager
18:23<jdccdevel>Tj: I've never heard of it. I'm looking into it now.
18:24<Tj>now you've said it, rings a bell that I helped someone else with this exact issue some months ago now!
18:24<Tj>new in a bullseye install too. Searching my logs
18:24<somiaj>jdccdevel: what is the output of 'why conman'
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18:24<somiaj>arg, aptitude why conman
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18:25<sney>,i connman
18:25<judd>Package connman (net, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Intel Connection Manager daemon. Version: 1.36-2.2; Size: 404.0k; Installed: 1210k; Homepage: https://01.org/connman
18:25<Tj>2021-08-27 19:27:41 flyck tepozoa, Tj: connmand[577]: enp2s0 {add} address 169.254.36.55/16 label enp2s0 family 2
18:25<sney>it usually gets pulled in with lxde or lxqt
18:26<Tj>jdccdevel: is this a sever install, or desktop? I assumed server since you're messing about with ifupdown
18:26<jdccdevel>It's a server, but running lxde for it's gui.
18:27<Tj>2021-08-27 19:28:41 sney and now twice, this is probably a bug that should be reported
18:27<jdccdevel>apt doesn't think it's even installed...
18:27<Tj>hehehe so at least a 3rd time now
18:27<sney>make sure you spelled it right, somiaj was missing a n
18:28<Tj>if it's got a GUI it's a desktop in my book :)
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18:28<jdccdevel>Tj: Yep, that's it. It's a package pulled in by LXDE.
18:29<jdccdevel>it's a recommended package by LXDE, via connman-gtk
18:30<somiaj>one more thing I need to keep in mind that can be installed, connman is kinda new to me (and maybe a lot of us)
18:30<Tj>I thought about it earlier when mentioning networkd/NetworkManager but didn't associate it with 'server' installs. Lesson learned
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18:34<jdccdevel>Tj: lxde is lightweight enough I run it on some servers... Especially ones that aren't headless.
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18:36<somiaj>It is still to heavy for me to even use on my desktop, (:
18:36<somiaj>but now you know, desktops will install a lot of different desktop utilities, one of which is to auto assign fallback ips
18:37<Tj>I prefer shell-only for servers, and keep them minimal so I control what is configured.
18:40<somiaj>it could be worse, they could be using webmin...*hides*
18:41<Tj>Right now I'm in the process of doing a side-by-side install of bullseye 11 on a headless Pi 3B that is on stretch 9 and without the SD-card install being altered. Doing it via deboostrap into an LV on the attached WD PiDrive, and it has to come up first time it reboots with a hostapd config working. Knowing what every service is going to do is critical :)
18:41<Tj>somiaj: webmin is good - been using it and virtualmin on complex multi-domain servers since around 2007 and not had a problem with it.
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18:43<somiaj>Yea, it like most things is fine if you know what you are doing, but not so fire for those who don't understand the features/limitations/concerns with such tools.
18:43<somiaj>mostly I just see people on the later side, who are using it, but don't really know what they are doing
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18:45<Tj>somiaj: I think that goes for anything though. The issue is more that tools like webmin/cpanel/GUIs/TUIs give novices the illusion that they can just point and click and not wonder about what happens under the hood.
18:46<Tj>I've used webmin/virtualmin to rapidly teach myself what a good config looks like without spending hours reading man-pages, example configs, and out-of-date docs whilst pulling my hair out. Having a known-working config is a great base to then experiment with :)
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18:49<jdccdevel>Tj: somiaj: Thank you both! After purging connman-gtk and connman, networking is behaving exactly as it should be. Thanks!
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18:50<Tj>Yay :)
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19:00<srdjan>sorry boys and girls,i'm total linux unknower,if someone know how to install viber on mx 18.3 ? thanks in advance
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19:02<somiaj>!mx
19:02<dpkg>from memory, mx is the Mail eXchanger resource record in DNS -- it tells an <MTA> where to deliver mail for a given domain. Merry Xmas, or Mexico. Si está buscando el canal de soporte para debian relativo a México, diríjase a #debian-mx
19:02<somiaj>srdjan: we don't support mx linux here, you'll have to use their support
19:02<somiaj>!mx-linux
19:02<dpkg>MX Linux is a popular distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported in #debian. Support is available on their forum: https://forum.mxlinux.org/. It is related to <antix>. If you are new to linux, or want a distro with IRC support, try Debian instead: https://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian
19:02<somiaj>there that is the right factoid
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19:04<srdjan>ok,thank you
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20:58<user01>how do you get the proper key mapping on a thinkpad?
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21:09<sney>user01: usually thinkpad keyboards need no extra configuration. maybe check thinkwiki for tips about your specific model, or 'dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration' and try different models from that list.
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21:10<sney>some more information which may or may not be helpful is at https://wiki.debian.org/Keyboard
21:11<user01>sney, the function keys seemed inverted with the multimedia keys
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21:12<user01>im doing a fresh install on my laptop, what package do i need to access encrypted external drives again?
21:12<user01>luks something?
21:12<sney>cryptsetup?
21:12<sarnold>probably crypsetup is a good starting point
21:12<sarnold>cryptsetup
21:12<sarnold>sigh
21:13*sney throws up some gang signs
21:13<sarnold>haha
21:14<user01>ok and it will have the same password as before hopefully, was about to wipe my disks did my last rsync
21:14<user01>laptop disk anywa
21:14<sarnold>test before destroying anything
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21:15<user01>test . . . what?
21:15<sarnold>accessing your external drives
21:15<user01>how? this is my only laptop
21:17<sney>the luks passphrase for an external disk will not change from you reinstalling the OS
21:17<user01>ok -- and i just have to keep the same user name?
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21:18<sney>user name has nothing to do with unlocking a luks volume
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21:18<user01>well i was curious how it will know i have permission to read/write to it
21:18<sney>but if it contains /home data and user-specific configuration, having the same user name will be more convenient
21:19<sarnold>unix permissions are handled by uid number, not by name
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21:20<aloo_shu>maybe user01 should explain what exactly he did when they did 'my last rsync'
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21:21<user01>i synced home directory
21:21<user01>and etc directory
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21:21<user01>i dont think i need anything else backed up
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21:23<aloo_shu>is the copy even encrypted then?
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21:24<user01>usage /dev/nvme0n1p2 23G 20G 2.4G 90% / /dev/nvme0n1p3 9.2G 1.9G 6.9G 21% /var /dev/nvme0n1p5 1.9G 155M 1.6G 9% /tmp /dev/nvme0n1p6 169G 150G 9.7G 94% /home
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21:24<user01>im thinking of decreaseing var to 6GB this time
21:24<user01>increasing home
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21:25<user01>23G seemed ok for /
21:25<user01>aloo_shu, the drive is encrypted that i copied it to
21:26<aloo_shu>ah
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21:27<aloo_shu>I'm not using encryption myself, was just trying to help get a clear picture
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21:35<user01>how low do you think i can safely make var?
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22:45<r4fkramer>Hi all. Please, I'd like to know if this value for 'backlog_wait_time' is enough for a server: https://paste.debian.net/1217348/
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22:46-!-N0NB is "Nate Bargmann" on @#hamlib #freedombox #debian
22:47<r4fkramer>I'm asking that because I saw through 'auditctl -s' in Rocky Linux a value about 60000, and it's generating always 'audit: backlog limit exceeded' and I want to avoid this error in debian server
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22:47<sarnold>hey r4fkramer
22:47<r4fkramer>Hi sarnold ! How are you ?
22:48<sarnold>it'll depend upon how much audit logging traffic you've got; if you've got apparmor profiles in complain mode, or selinux policy in their not-enforcing mode, it's possible you'll get vast amounts of logging in a very short time
22:48<sarnold>pretty good :) my parents are bringing mexican food over soon :)
22:49<r4fkramer>Oh I see. Mexican food are very spicy. Have a glass of ice water close by, lol
22:49<sarnold>:D
22:50<sarnold>I've never actuially seen anyone fiddle with the backlog_wait_time before; my ubuntu system's backlog_limit is vastly higher, though, backlog_limit 8192
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22:51<tzf>Water will not arrange anything, use lemon, milk or grounded coconut! I am here in Asia eating habaneros !
22:51<sarnold>I've also configured an insane number of file watches on this system, large package upgrade cycles go through *thousands* of files in moments..
22:51<sarnold>tzf :D
22:51<r4fkramer>Please, sarnold, according your explanation, is 15000 enough ?
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22:52<r4fkramer>This Debian installation doesn't generate any error message through dmesg
22:53<sarnold>r4fkramer: hopefully, but given how much slower disks are than processors, it's probably always going to be possible to flood so much through the audit system that the disks cannot possibly keep up
22:54<r4fkramer>Okay, sarnold, I will be mindful of this question. In my case here, the disk is particularly slower than usual due to its age.
22:55<sarnold>good luck little disk! :)
22:56<r4fkramer>Thank you very much for attention, sarnold ! Hope you can survive the pepper of mexican food :)
22:56<sarnold>thanks r4fkramer :)
22:56<r4fkramer>:)
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23:59<tuxd3v>hello logrotate is rotating my system logs, but I am not calling it in cron.daily or weekly or whatever.. does anybody knows were it is doing is mambo jambo?
23:59<tuxd3v>thanks
---Logclosed Sat Oct 30 00:00:41 2021