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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-11-04

---Logopened Thu Nov 04 00:00:34 2021
---Daychanged Thu Nov 04 2021
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00:00-!-kveroneau is "Kevin Veroneau" on #linux #kvm #virt #debian-kde #debian
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00:24<hellonurse>Just wanted to say thank you to all the debian developers. I'm enjoying your hard work. Keep it up!
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00:44<Sqrt{not}>anom, anon, what have you tried? what did you expect to happen? what actually happened? what specific questions result from trying it?
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00:50<anon>this is an interesting thank you but i'm afraid of what might happen, prioritizing performance across all types of machines is one of the most important goals to consider.
00:52<anon>Sqrt{not}: I want to save the output of each command, '>' is great but it doesn't work for all output, it looks like errors aren't saved.
00:53<sney>put 2>&1 after the command to redirect stderr along with stdout
00:54<anon>in xfce's irc i discover command script but the saves only run with exit command in end, i need of save in realtime here
00:56<anon>sney: how make one complete usual command line
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00:56<sney>command > output.txt 2>&1
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00:58<twb>If you want to capture *ALL* output, I suggest script(1)
00:58<twb>script install-log.typescript RET <do stuff> <log out> less install-log.typescript
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01:01<anon>ok, i need put out in file, how i make this?
01:04<anon>i need an ide as light as the mousepad
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01:06<twb>For what language?
01:08<anon>... i program in multiples language, only need of one button to run and an color highlight
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01:08<twb>I don't know any "true" IDE that can do e.g. both Factor and Smalltalk
01:10<anon>talk me some light
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01:23<twb>mousepad and minimal dependencies is 476MB
01:23<twb>emacs-nox and minimal dependencies is 381MB
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01:28<tjcarter>vim-nox is probably smaller than that depending on how you count.
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01:29<tjcarter>there's dependencies that you're going to have installed on a Debian system no matter what, dunno if twb counted those for emacs
01:29<twb>tjcarter: mmdebstrap --variant=apt bullseye /dev/null --customize-hook='du -xsch $1' --include=emacs-nox
01:30<tjcarter>heh
01:30<tjcarter>probably fairly similar size then
01:30<twb>402MB for vim-nox
01:30<tjcarter>nano might be a little smaller because it's already included with debian systems
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01:31<twb>mg is smaller than nvi for sure
01:31<twb>But you probably have "busybox vi" already
01:31*tjcarter notes that Debian's base install is hardly small these days
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01:32<twb>Without any --include (i.e. a pid2 container) it's 228M
01:33<twb>With --include=init,linux-image-cloud-amd64 (i.e. a VM) it's 386M
01:33<tjcarter>I'm hoping dokakuryu will start working on a pure blend that slims Debian's base install down a little and gets a fairly minimal GUI on top of it.
01:33<twb>That's within an order of magnitude for most other distros
01:33<tjcarter>Most distros assume you have modern hardware to work with
01:34<twb>Android Go is about 800M to 1000M.
01:34<tjcarter>In some parts of the world, you're looking at 20 year old stuff as standard.
01:34<twb>alpine is about 50MB (pid1 container) or 150MB (VM)
01:34<tjcarter>I know some people who still have 32 bit hardware even.
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01:36<jpw>there's nothing wrong with my 20 year old p4 tyvm. it still runs debian, just as I like it.
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01:37<tjcarter>If I hand you a Raspberry Pi 3 and it's NOT a downgrade … full fat Debian is probably a little heavier than is comfortable.
01:37<tjcarter>(I know, I used a Pi 3 as a primary desktop system for awhile.)
01:37<tjcarter>Chromium was PAIN to have more than a couple tabs open
01:38<tjcarter>But Chromium is cancerous crapware anyway
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01:38<jpw>yeah gui's are/have become unusable with anything less than 4-6GB ram
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01:39<tjcarter>I used XFCE on the Pi 3.
01:40<tjcarter>It worked okay.
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02:57<freq>oh
02:57<freq>hey
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02:58<twb>jpw: the MIPS-per-watt is pretty crap on that
02:59<twb>jpw: so not ideal if your energy is from burning coal or whatever
02:59<freq>is it ok to ask a kali question
02:59<twb>freq: only if you reproduce the problem on Debian first
03:00<twb>!kali
03:00<dpkg>Kali Linux https://kali.org/ is a security/penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but is different enough that we don't provide support in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or https://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian> and read https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
03:00<freq>ok
03:00<twb>freq: otherwise, talk to kali people
03:00<freq>just can't find my bluetooth device
03:01<twb>freq: boot Debian Live and try that?
03:01<freq>works fine on buster
03:01<twb>Sounds like a kali-specific problem, then
03:01<freq>yerp
03:01<twb>freq: wait, are you also live-booting kali?
03:01<freq>no
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03:02<twb>OK. I've found that when live-booting or dual-booting, the BT device sometimes gets upset because it sees itself as paired already to the same desktop, but the desktop runs a new OS and doesn't know about the pairing
03:02<freq>i'm on ARM
03:02<freq>shouldn't be much different, but maybe it is
03:03<freq>i'm doing an upgrade right now. let's see if i reboot and live
03:03<freq>might end up back in buster, which isn't a losss.
03:04<freq>is there a rolling version of debian? i guess sid
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03:16<tjcarter><freq> i'm on ARM
03:16*tjcarter gives freq a hand
03:17<freq> can't find my bluetooth device
03:17<tjcarter>(I'll be here all week. Try the veal, etc.)
03:17<freq>ok
03:17<tjcarter>freq: which BT device are you using?
03:17<freq>it's a broadcom
03:17<tjcarter>So the one built in to a Pi or other?
03:18<freq>yeah in a pi400
03:18<tjcarter>Okay, I don't have one of those to help debug more directly, but that's useful info.
03:19<ofto>I saw the directions but I prefer windowed applications to use with the mouse.
03:20<tjcarter>often with BT you wind up needing to start with a terminal to debug
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03:20<tjcarter>BT in Linux is pretty much a frustrating mess.
03:20<freq>tjcarter: that's ok
03:20<freq>i'm familiar with cli
03:20<tjcarter>s/ in Linux//
03:20<ofto>about text editors like ide lightweight
03:21<ofto>twb:
03:22<tjcarter>freq: you have bluetoothctl?
03:23<freq>yes and it says that it's waiting for bluetoothd
03:23<twb>freq: note that bcm are deeply hostile to free software, therefore I recommend avoiding them
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03:24<tjcarter>twb: sadly there are a metric crapton of pi devices out there.
03:25<tjcarter>and hostile or not, they tend to be the best supported.
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03:26<tjcarter>freq: if you run bluetoothctl, you should be able to give it the show command to see details about your host. scan on should make it discoverable and start looking for devices
03:27<tjcarter>might also check journalctl -f -u bluetooth as root
03:28<freq>ok
03:28<tjcarter>I don't presently have a bluetooth host device, so I'm doing this from memory
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03:29<freq>Condition check resulted in Bluetooth service being skipped.
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03:46<freq>upgrade went fine
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03:54<freq>there is no device yet
03:54<freq>must be a missing module
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04:02<MrHatter123>I have a strange thing happening. I have a debian 9 box, with 2x 8tb drives in RAID1 with mdadm. Before removing a drive I ran grub-install /dev/sda and grub-install /dev/sdb then update-grub to be sure the bootloader is fine on them both.
04:02<MrHatter123>Next I turned the box off and tested if it would boot from either drive and it would boot from neither of them.
04:02<MrHatter123>I used the Debian install DVD in rescue mode to run grub-install on both drives, then rebooted and it booted up.
04:02<MrHatter123>Next I removed one drive and it wouldn't boot up. So I put the other drive in and it wouldn't boot up.
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04:02<MrHatter123>I went through the process again with the rescue method and it booted up after the grub repair.
04:03<MrHatter123>same thing happened, after one successfull boot, it then wouldn't boot off either of the drives again.
04:03<MrHatter123>What could be happening ?
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04:05<MrHatter123>after removing one of the drives that is.
04:05<MrHatter123>ie after removing one drive, it won't boot off either of them.
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04:06<MrHatter123>now after doing the grub repair again, with both drives in, it boots up.
04:07<MrHatter123>So I am guessing the boot loader is only working on one of the drives, but why would the both not boot after removing one of them ?
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04:11<MrHatter123>there is 94M EFI partion on /dev/sda1 and 95M Bios Boot partition on /dev/sda2
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04:22<MrHatter123>ok, so when I do the drives one at a time with the repair disk, the drive that won't boot, says this : executing grub-install on /dev/sda' failed. This is a fatal error.
04:22<MrHatter123>how do I found out what the fatal error is ?
04:23<MrHatter123>could it be not enough space on the bios boot partition area ?
04:24<MrHatter123>is 95M enough ?
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04:37<twb>MrHatter123: in theory you only **NEED** about 1MB for the EFI System Partition (ESP). In practice, 100MB to 1G is a good idea because of things like fwupd using it as a temporary area for Linux Live operating systems that you reboot into to do proprietary firmware upgrades
04:38<twb>MrHatter123: I don't know what a "Bios Boot" partition is.
04:39<MrHatter123>twb: when running grub-install /dev/sda I get this : grub-install : error: cannot find cannot find efi directory
04:39<enyc>twb: rarely-needed... when you have a GPT disk and you want to boot in bios (non uefi) mode, a Bios boot partition is used to store the 'embed' sectors that grub/etc needs
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04:39<twb>MrHatter123: unfortunately I can't help repair grub -- I have so much trouble with grub that I eventually banned it. I recommend refind instead.
04:40<enyc>twb: unless boot disk over 2TB better to just format as MBR partition table, you can still have a ESP (EFI System Partition) and EFI boot an MBR disk
04:40<twb>enyc: you mean the stage 1.5 part of grub? Isn't that grub-specific and <1M ?
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04:43<enyc>twb: yes
04:43<enyc>twb: as for grub-spcefiic <1M i don't know
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04:44<enyc>twb: in any case, any bootloader that needs MBR + some embedded sectors has this problem
04:44<twb>syslinu xdoesn't
04:44<enyc>twb: not familiar with syslinux+GPT and bios-booting
04:44<twb>it just stores the stage 2 in some blocks in the rootfs, and chattr -i's them so ext4/btrfs won't move them
04:45<enyc>qutoe The Syslinux Project covers lightweight bootloaders for MS-DOS FAT filesystems (SYSLINUX),
04:45<enyc>twb: that may be relying on block-lists i suspect
04:45<enyc>twb: i.e. the beginning of syslinux is over there -> hope it hasn't move etc
04:45<twb>I think it just writes an offset to the first one, and then ensures they're linear or something
04:46<twb>enyc: chattr -i means it can't move
04:46<enyc>twb: yes, but then somebody resizes partition or something else
04:46<twb>resiez2fs understands chattr -i
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04:46<enyc>twb: whereas with a bios-boot-partition and guids to find things... is more flexible
04:46<enyc>I *think* the point is stage1 can *find* the bios-boot-partition even if moved
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04:47<enyc>and stage 1.5 can *find* stage 2 even if boot/root portition moved about
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04:49<MrHatter123>can i install grub to the bios boot partition ? /dev/sda2 ?
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04:51<enyc>MrHatter123: not that I know of but you'd be better asking this in libera.chat #grub channel or so I suspect
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04:51<MrHatter123>enyc, ok thx
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05:47<twb>Or switch to refind ;-)
05:47<twb>You can easily try out refind by just putting it on a USB key
05:48<twb>Unlike grub, it works with a completely read-only ESP copied straight from upstream
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06:00<tjcarter>I tried refind—I like how it handles Linux kernels, but I couldn't get it to work with a font I could read
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06:57*enyc meows
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07:27<thanigai>hello everyone
07:29<thanigai>dell inspiron 3501 i3 11th generation sound not working
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07:31<tjcarter>thanigai: I can't stay awake any longer … someone should be around sooner or later who can try to help you debug it
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07:32<tjcarter>do you know what sound system you're using?
07:33<thanigai>i dont know
07:33<tjcarter>if you open a terminal and run pactl info, I bet it'll say you've got pulseaudio running
07:35<tjcarter>if so, run alsamixer (alsa-utils package)
07:35<tjcarter>It'll probably show one slider, "Master". (Card: Pulseaudio only has the one)
07:35<thanigai>https://paste.debian.net/1218176/
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07:36<tjcarter>That means you're running pulseaudio as predicted
07:36<tjcarter>try alsamixer
07:37<tjcarter>press F6 to select which device to change settings on
07:37<tjcarter>Mine is "HD Audio Generic" but … yours may be called something else
07:37<thanigai>0 HDA Intel PCH showing
07:39<tjcarter>left/right arrow to select a slider, up/down to change it
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07:40<tjcarter>if you have anything muted (MM) that should be obviously not muted (OO), you can fix that
07:40<thanigai>changed but not working
07:40<tjcarter>Master, PCM, Front, etc. are good targets
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07:40<tjcarter>other question is … what's your audio output device?
07:41<thanigai>PCM
07:41<tjcarter>Fiddling with any of that won't help much if you're using HDMI audio
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07:42<tjcarter>(HDMI is another device entirely)
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07:46<Otello>Hi, I've got a question about the time of releasing Mozilla pack (Firefox and Thunderbird)
07:48<Otello>Bye now, Firefox ESR 78x ended the security support
07:49<tjcarter>!firefox
07:49<dpkg>Firefox ESR (Extended Support Release) is available in all three suites as of the time of this factoid (October 2019); mainline Firefox is in Debian Unstable. Users can also download any version from Mozilla's website. From 2006-2016, Firefox in Debian was known as "Iceweasel", because Mozilla would not permit Debian to use the Firefox name.
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07:49<tjcarter>no that's not the right one
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07:50<tjcarter>!bullseye-updates
07:50<dpkg>bullseye-updates is a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. The updates may be important bug fixes or low priority security fixes. All packages from bullseye-updates will be included in point releases. https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates . Not to be confused with <bullseye-security> which is for <security> updates (<bullseye/updates> was renamed and does not exist).
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07:50<tjcarter>that might be the right place
07:50<tjcarter>,v firefox-esr
07:50<judd>Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 78.14.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 78.14.0esr-1~deb11u1; bookworm: 78.14.0esr-1+b1; buster-security: 78.15.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye-proposed-updates: 78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1; bullseye-security:
07:50<judd>78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1; experimental: 91.1.0esr-1; sid: 91.3.0esr-1
07:53<tjcarter>Otello: basically, look for it in bullseye-proposed-updates when it's ready … 78 is still current in Debian, but 91 is on its way.
07:54<Otello>Is there a place where I can see the dates of the planned updates to next release?
07:54<tjcarter>I don't think there's a planned date.
07:55<tjcarter>when it's ready it'll get built for proposed-updates or for backports
07:55<Otello>ahh, ok!
07:55<tjcarter>the idea for stable is that it's better it take a little longer to be ready than it not work when it comes out
07:57<tjcarter>They're pretty keenly aware that even ESR browsers need to be updated kind of semi-regularly.
07:57<tjcarter>Note buster is now oldstable and it still has 78.14 via -security
07:58<tjcarter>I think you can even get 78 for stretch … but I don't know where it lives if not in one of the above.
07:59*tjcarter goes and faceplants his pillow before he faceplants his keyboard
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08:03<viktor01330>!offtopic
08:03<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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09:08<@jelly>no need for backports, bullseye will get 91esr as well
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09:41<Litos523>Hi, I need a usb bluetooth for my desktop, but all seem to bring the CSR 4.0 chip and give problems. I have tried several, and I can never get them to work, can you recommend a usb bluetooth that works well and is cheap? Thanks
09:42<chrisgt>so what i did, and this isn't an easy off-the-shelf solution, is a bought a bluetooth card for a lenovo laptop since they're connected internally by USB
09:42<chrisgt>then i soldered a USB plug to it
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09:44<Litos523>Thanks, but this solution is not valid for me. I'm not good at soldering, I can destroy the world! :)
09:46<Litos523>Would the TP-Link Nano UB400 Bluetooth 4.0 Adapter work properly in Wormbook?
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09:48<chrisgt>i don't know what a wormbook is. do its specifications say that it uses either BLE 4.0 or BR/EDR? 4.0 is very old at this point
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09:50<Litos523>Sorry i can write bookworm
09:50<chrisgt>honestly i don't know whath that is. however, if it's a bluetooth peripheral, it should list what it requires of the controller
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09:53<jm_>bookworm is codename for the next release
09:54<chrisgt>oh, sorry i thought it was a peripheral. my bad
09:55<bentham>write-once-read-many, like a book
09:56<bentham>yea, no. :)
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09:56<chrisgt>a quick google search say it is likely to work.... but i don't own the device myself so i can't confirm that
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09:58<chrisgt>personally, i'd want a bluetooth dongle that supports 5.2 since we're going to start seeing more audio devices and headsets that use BLE
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10:45<leeuw>hello, I am logged in?
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10:46<at0m>leeuw: seems you are
10:46<leeuw>if anyone reads this, I need some help for debian wireguard. Is there a specific channel for that?
10:46<leeuw>thatnks at0m
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10:46<at0m>there's here, and also #wireguard
10:47<at0m>oh, #wireguard on libera
10:47<leeuw>ok.
10:47<at0m>just ask, if anyone knows, they'll read up.
10:47<leeuw>Well, if you can spare me a minute for an issue i would be grateful
10:47<at0m>i don't know about wireguard. but there's plenty others here.
10:48<at0m>!ask
10:48<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
10:48<leeuw>ok. On a Debian 10 KVM based VPS, I installed wireguard.
10:49<leeuw>To Install it, I made use of a tool called pivpn (from the raspberry repository)
10:50<leeuw>after a lot of configuration stuff, I got it running with a interface wg0, the default network. 10.6.0.1
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10:51<leeuw>pivpn creates user profiles for me, all fine, it works.
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10:51<leeuw>The only small problem was, all clients could see eachother in the wireguard network, which i didn't want.
10:52<leeuw>So, I tried to add another wireguard subnet and interface, called wg1 with subnet 10.2.0.1
10:52<leeuw>To separate users.
10:53<leeuw>In fact I copied the firewall config and all other settings for wg0 and duplicated it for wg1
10:54<leeuw>since pivpn only handles wg0 default, I had to find a way to create peers for wg1 network
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10:54<leeuw>First I tried to create peer conf files manually, but it was a pain and didn't work
10:55<leeuw>So, on github I found a tool that did it for me. Called ' wireguard-config-generator
10:55<leeuw>'
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10:56<leeuw>Now comes my issue; it worked nice. And it let me pass some problems, but still I can't connect a client to wg1
10:57<leeuw>So, I started experimenting. I tried to add a peer manually in wg1.conf to have it listed. Butit didn't work
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10:59<leeuw>See, whenever I do: wg set wg1 peer ......allowed-ips.....
10:59<leeuw>(and down and up)
11:00<leeuw>I can do a #wg show
11:00<leeuw>but it ONLY list the wg1 interface but no peers?
11:00<leeuw>only I see the already exciting peers for wg0
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11:01<leeuw>I think my problem is here, I can't manage to let #wg show show any peers which I tried to configure
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11:02<leeuw>So, since wireguard is not listing any peers for my new added wg1, I can't connect any client to it
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11:04<leeuw>why if I do a "wg set wg1 peer ......allowed-ips....." command there is no peer listed in wg1 when I do 'wg show'
11:04<leeuw>?
11:05<leeuw>And why if I add it manualy in the wg1.conf file, and restart wg1 service (and downn /up) it is not listed after do the same '#wg show'
11:05<leeuw>is it a bug in wireguard, does anyone know this problem?
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11:08<leeuw>I need help to get my wg1 running...Also possible to have a solution meanwhile, is there a ufw rule to block clients in wg0 to see eachother? (only internet)
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11:09<leeuw>pfff....well those a re my questions, i think..
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11:35<EmleyMoor>Having some trouble. Want to remotely access the desktop of my partner's system by VNC. Have ssh'ed in, become him and started x0vncserver, using an agreed password file, but connections just close when I try. Also can't get X11 forwarding working for myself on same machine. Any hints?
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11:39<EmleyMoor>Don't think this has worked since bullseye
11:40<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: Is the VNC server on the same network_
11:40<petn-randall>?
11:40<EmleyMoor>Same network as ...?
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11:41<EmleyMoor>I am using port forwarding so I am not sure there's an issue
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11:42<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: What error do you get when trying to connect?
11:43<EmleyMoor>Connection to localhost::5905 was closed
11:43<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: Do you see a connection attempt on the server?
11:44<EmleyMoor>No because I'm effectively working blind on that point at this moment
11:44<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: I thought you're connected to it via SSH?
11:45<EmleyMoor>Yes...
11:45<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: Then it should be possible to check for connection attempts in the logs?
11:46<fernie>or is it "default" gnome/wayland
11:46<EmleyMoor>More a question of what logs
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11:47<jk74234>Hello, I'm trying to use dpkg-deb --extract on base-files_10.3+deb10u11_amd64.deb but I'm getting "tar: ./var/local: Cannot change mode to rwxrwsr-x: Operation not permitted". Any ideas?
11:47<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: You can simply try connecting via nc locally, as that should always succeed, and see if it's logged somewhere. If you then try it from remote and there are no entries, you can safely assume it's a portforwarding/firewall issue.
11:49<EmleyMoor>petn: So, what do I try?
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11:50<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: I gave you a suggestion in my message directly before this one. Ask specific questions if something is unclear.
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11:51<EmleyMoor>"connecting via nc locally"
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11:51<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: Use netcat (`nc`) to do local connection attempts.
11:51<EmleyMoor>But how do I use nc?
11:52<jk74234>ok fakeroot to the rescue
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11:53<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: It comes with a man page ...
11:53<petn-randall>The most important part being [destination] and [port].
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11:55<EmleyMoor>destination being a synonym for hostname?
11:55<tulpa>It's probably a good idea to tunnel vnc over ssh as I think it is not encrypted. Something like this guide: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-configure-vnc-on-debian-10
11:55<EmleyMoor>tulpa: I always do
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11:56<tulpa>EmleyMoor, i think you may find some logs under ~/.vnc
11:56<EmleyMoor>OK, "nc localhost 5901" responds
11:57<EmleyMoor>... and yes, found the log
11:57<petn-randall>Cool, now try connecting from remote.
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11:58<EmleyMoor>nc localhost 5905 (which ssh forwards to 5901 on the remote end) responds
11:59<EmleyMoor>Problem seems to be viewer related at my end
12:00<tulpa>what command are you using to connect?
12:00<petn-randall>You will need to explicitely add a port if you changed it from the default 5901.
12:01<EmleyMoor>Add it where?
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12:02*petn-randall polishes crystal ball.
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12:03<EmleyMoor>The port forwarding is working when used with nc. It is not working when used with a viewer.
12:03<tulpa>EmleyMoor, are you connecting to something like: vncviewer localhost:1
12:03<EmleyMoor>localhost:5
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12:05<EmleyMoor>The problem is not what I'm connecting to but what I'm connecting with
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12:07<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: Yes, because you changed the port from 5901 (which is will connect to) to 5905.
12:07<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: So open `man vncviewer` and check how you can change the port.
12:08<EmleyMoor>It never screwed me about like this before (not in 20+ years) of choosing a convenient port at my end mapped to the right one at the other
12:08<leeuw>Ok, thanks, I try another way
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12:11<tulpa>EmleyMoor, I think this might work: vncviewer localhost::5905
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12:12<EmleyMoor>It works fine if I use gvncviewer, not if I use another
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12:17<tulpa>did you try the cmd line i posted above?
12:18<EmleyMoor>Yes, among others
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12:18<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: Is there a reason why you're changing the port number with the SSH port forwarding? If no, I'd save myself some head ache and just leave it at 5901.
12:19<EmleyMoor>petn: Because 5901 is/was already similarly used. Besides there's no headache caused thereby
12:20<EmleyMoor>Certain viewers do not seem to like the setup but gvncviewer is totally fine with it
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12:24<EmleyMoor>What I'd really like is to have the VNC server running whenever he is logged in - to save a little faff
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12:32<tulpa>EmleyMoor, this article discusses setting up vnc server as a daemon: https://computingforgeeks.com/install-and-configure-tigervnc-vnc-server-on-debian/
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12:43<redbrass>Looking for advice with .ssh/known_hosts. My system creates a VM, then I use qemu to start that vm with ssh port forwarding. Each time I run the system, I have to remove the entry in known_hosts and manually accept the new fingerprint.
12:44<redbrass>I am setting up a bash script to ssh to the VM for testing, and need it to be fully automated (no interaction). I can remove the old entry in known_hosts, but adding the new one does not seem to work and I'm left with the interactive prompt.
12:44<redbrass>Any suggestions?
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12:45<redbrass>Oh, also I do not want to set StrictHostKeyChecking... Opens a can of worms with our security folks.
12:46<EmleyMoor>You say the VM is "created"? Does this mean it is a fresh creation every time?
12:46<EmleyMoor>(any reason why it's not merely started?)
12:47<fernie>if you dont use StictHostKeyChecking, youll get the prompt, but using UserKnownHostsFile /dev/null prevents from saving it and no need to remove
12:48<redbrass>yep. new image each time. Our system creates a custom distro installer, this vm is the "installed system" to test that installer. My task is validating the installed system can boot and makes sense.
12:48<fernie>and if its some know subnet/hostnames, you can enable StrictHostKeyChecking only for that
12:49<redbrass>fernie: with the port forwarding we are connecting to 127.0.0.1:2522...
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12:50<redbrass>So setting StrictHostKeyChecking for the hostname isn't going to work well.
12:50<fernie>why not, for 127.0.0.1. its localhost
12:51<redbrass>And that setting would affect any other connections we do to 127.0.0.1. We use the port forwarding trick for multiple tasks.
12:53<fernie>you can also give it as parameter when making the connection, so dont need to configure for all connections
12:54<redbrass>So my script currently does: ssh-keygen -f my/known_hosts -R "127.0.0.1:2522" - this removes the pervious entry from known hosts. Then we do: ssh-keyscan -H -p 2522 127.0.0.1 >> my/known_hosts - to add the NEW instance to known_hosts.
12:54<redbrass>This still ends up prompting me though.
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13:05<giuseppe>buona sera
13:06<giuseppe>c'è qualcuno che scrive in italiano?
13:07<chrisgt>!it
13:07<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. - debian-italian@lists.debian.org
13:07<giuseppe>ok grazie
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13:13<imMute>redbrass turn off StrictHostKeyChecking specifically for that IP?
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13:13<imMute>redbrass: nvm, I didn't read the whole conversation
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13:36<redbrass>Solved my ssh fingerprint issue (I think - running final test now). We are using ansible to connect via SSH and run tests. There is a --ssh-extra-args option to the ansible-playbook command. There you can set the StrictHostKeyChecking=no and UserKnownHostFile=/dev/null.
13:36<redbrass>so a per command setting, instead of a per system setting.
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15:08<freq>how do i add a bluetooth module
15:08<freq>depmod what
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15:09<freq>bluetooth = none (no device)
15:09<freq>not true though
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15:21<Sqrt{not}>freq, what do you see in the logs, maybe `dmesg` regarding your device?
15:21<freq>it's the kali kernel
15:22<freq>nevermind
15:22<Sqrt{not}>then you should go to the kali help:
15:22<Sqrt{not}>!kali
15:22<dpkg>Kali Linux https://kali.org/ is a security/penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but is different enough that we don't provide support in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or https://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian> and read https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
15:22<freq>XD
15:27<at0m>we get that a lot =)
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16:04<Guest4935>hi
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16:07<Zborg>I have been trying to compile some software and it seems like most of the .pc files including those for libsdl are missing on the latest debian stable.
16:08<sarnold>Zborg: you can use apt-file search to help you find the right -dev packages to install
16:09<sarnold>the nicer projects put the -dev packages you need to install in their READMEs :) but that's not always a given
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16:16<Zborg>Got it, compiling now
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16:18<sarnold>woot
16:19<sarnold>Zborg: it might be nice to provide a patch to the project's README or COMPILING or whatever they've got :)
16:20<Zborg>The project had the regular package listed, not the dev package. So it had you do a "sudo apt-get install libsdl1.2debian" but not the -dev package
16:20<Zborg>The project had the regular package listed, not the dev package. So it had you do a "sudo apt-get install libsdl1.2debian" but not the -dev package. The same with mixer/gfx/yaml-cpp
16:22<Zborg>Also, do compiler warnings slow down the compilation process? That is, is there a delay added after each compiler warning is shown?
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16:22<Habbie>there is not a delay, but printing things to a screen is never free
16:23<freq>so, it looks like kali can be added to raspberry pi os
16:23<Habbie>also, printing a decent warning may cost the compiler some effort
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16:51<petn-randall>freq: Sounds like that's even more offtopic. :D
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16:53<tjcarter>#raspberrypi on libera.chat is better place for that
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17:41<crab>hi all. i got really angry at work today trying to configure a static ipv6
17:41<crab>no matter what it did it failed.
17:41<crab>ive just tried exactly the same thing on a machine at home, and it worked fine.
17:41<crab>the big difference is the machine at work had a full gui
17:41<crab>and the one at home is a minimal installation.
17:42<crab>the one at work had all sorts of annoying ipv6 "privacy extensions" too
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17:42<crab>could this have been networkmanager?
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17:45<petn-randall>crab: If you tried to configure a network device by hand that was controlled by network-manager, that might fail, yes.
17:45<crab>im confused about that though because at some point during the fiasco i ran some annoying commandline nmctl thing
17:45<crab>and it explicitly said it was "unmanaged"
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17:46<crab>although i doubt that because of the privacy extensions
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17:46<crab>oh well.
17:46<crab>im at least glad that im not mad and it worked at home
17:46<crab>because if it hadnt id have been crying. :(
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17:51<crab>ok my bad the damn thing is managed.
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17:54<petn-randall>crab: Yeah, if you fight n-m over the config with low-level tools it'll just end in tears. Best way is to do it via n-m itself, which also has a CLI interface.
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17:54<petn-randall>privacy extensions shouldn't interfere with the config, though.
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17:55<crab>yeah i dont have any real beef with them
17:55<crab>i can see the point of those
17:55<crab>and i can *sort of* see the point of nm
17:55<crab>what makes me unreasonably furious
17:55<crab>to the point that i should consider meditation
17:55<crab>is that i put (im fairly) sure valid debian config in /etc/network/interfaces
17:56<crab>and it was shat upon. :)
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17:56<crab>but hey,
17:56<crab>there are a lot of bad things going on in the world.
17:56<crab>i should man up and deal with being gaslit by stupid middleware for people that like guis.
17:57<petn-randall>crab: If you add config to /e/n/i, n-m will ignore it, but only after reboot.
17:57<crab>man
17:58<crab>im sure i rebooted numerous times but maybe not
17:58<crab>/etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/99-unmanaged-devices.conf
17:58<petn-randall>But I'd go with n-m, as it is more robust and flexible than ifupdown IMHO.
17:58<crab>is that not the way to turn it off?
17:58<crab>or is that a rhelism?
17:59<crab>i must disagree
17:59<crab>imvho the most robust way is to do a minimal install without a gui
17:59<crab>and not have network manager
18:00<crab>but hey. sometimes you need a browser a bit fancier than links
18:00<petn-randall>n-m is not a GUI.
18:01<crab>i know
18:01<crab>but if i didnt have a gui on that machine we wouldnt have this convo
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18:01<crab>as what i put in interfaces would have worked
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18:03<zeh>hello, when apt is with a broken install doest it block installing any other package?
18:03-!-mentor [~mentor@00010c5b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
18:03<sney>often yes
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18:04<crab>petn-randall: (with the disclaimer that maybe it would have worked if i rebooted it if i didnt)
18:04<crab>but im fairly sure that i did
18:04<crab>:(
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18:06<zeh>sney: anyway to force installations? the package is fine it just has a wrong metapackage dependency
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18:07<sney>!equivs
18:07<dpkg>equivs is a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>. A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs, ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>.
18:07<sney>though maybe that's a catch-22 if you can't install anything
18:07<sney>what metapackage is it, and why can't you install that metapackage?
18:07<freq>is there a proper way to downgrade your release
18:07<sney>freq: downgrade is not supported by apt, there are various workarounds but the safest is to restore a backup.
18:08<sney>!tell freq -about downgrade
18:08<freq>ty
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18:09<zeh>sney: it is for a package in a external repository, which was installed as a local .deb build
18:09<zeh>I'll try to use equivs
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18:12<petn-randall>zeh: Wrong metapackage deps should break your apt. Are you sure it's not wrong library versions?
18:12<petn-randall>*shouldn't gah
18:13<freq>hi
18:13<petn-randall>freq: hi?
18:13<freq>true.
18:18<zeh>petn-randall: it is working fine only the dependency is with a wrong name
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18:18<crab>petn-randall: As of Debian 6.0 "Squeeze", NetworkManager does not manage any interface defined in /etc/network/interfaces by default.
18:19<crab>doesnt say anything about needing to reboot.
18:19<crab>also, i have definitely got ipv4 configured statically there
18:20<crab>yet root@spiderland:~# nmcli device
18:20<crab>DEVICE TYPE STATE CONNECTION
18:20<crab>eno1 ethernet connected Wired connection 1
18:20<crab>is this a bug?!
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18:20<crab>argh
18:20<crab>its in the en1 file in interfaces.d
18:20<crab>maybe thats the catch
18:21<crab>maybe if id put it in interfaces it would have disabled it
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20:12<twb>I have a desktop here that where /dev/sr0 doesn't exist anymore. The same unit used to boot off DVD OK, and physical eject button on the tray still works. A firmware update was SUPPOSED to remove DVD *boot* support, but maybe has broken the DVD entirely.
20:13<twb>What can I do to see why /dev/sr0 doesn't exist? I can't see a smoking gun in dmesg
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20:14<twb>Do SATA DVD drives show up on the PCIe bus, or what? I don't see /sys/bus/ahci or /sys/bus/scsi
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20:38<Sqrt{not}>twb, the stretch box next to me has a SATA DVD drive. it shows up as: "brw-rw----+ 1 root cdrom 11, 0 Oct 1 15:20 /dev/sr0" with /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrw and /dev/dvd and /dev/dvdrw all symlinked to sr0
20:39<Sqrt{not}>dmesg sez: [ 43.369303] sr 1:0:0:0: [sr0] scsi3-mmc drive: 48x/48x writer dvd-ram cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray
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20:47<mangodfruit>hi all, any who could tell me where to find a very good teaching material for debian or direct me to the right room please....thank you.
20:48<sarnold>that's kind of broad, what exactly do you want?
20:48<sney>twb: is the cdrom module loaded? I see my drive listed in /sys/bus/scsi and this seems to be the relevant dmesg stuff (redacted some usb noise) https://paste.debian.net/1218277/
20:49<chrisgt>mangodfruit: if you're looking for general debian info, the official documentation is really good. https://www.debian.org/doc/
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20:49<chrisgt>if you're after something specific, just ask
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20:51<mangodfruit>chrisgt: thank you for your answer...I want something for real beguiners, but should be fun also ?
20:52<chrisgt>i've never heard any linux documentation described as fun, however, when i got into debian it was through buying CDs online. reading the documentation on disk 1 was how i learned
20:52<chrisgt>it's technical documentation, it's dry...
20:54<chrisgt>reading technical documentation makes you stronger. at least, that's what i tell my junior engineers...
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20:56<mangodfruit>chrisgt: .I have just checked the site....very rich indeed....I will take by your advice....thanks a lot
20:56<sney>mangodfruit: you'll learn the most by deciding something you want to do with your computer, and then figuring out how to do it. the debian administrator's handbook ( https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/ ) is good reference for this process though, and so are man pages.
20:57<chrisgt>honestly, the best way to learn is install debian on some PC that isn't your main source of work
20:57<chrisgt>and just mess with it
20:57<chrisgt>try to do things, break it, figure out how to fix it, etc.
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21:29<twb>Sqrt{not}: thanks, yes, I don't see that
21:29<twb>sney: OK useful to know it SHOULD be in /sys/bus/scsi
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21:36<tuxd3v>does any one knows a way to stop all the stats that rng-tools is sending to /var/log/deamon.log?
21:41<sarnold>tuxd3v: a few different ideas.. check the rngd manpage, it gives an option to changing how often the stats are logged with -S -- the other option is to change it to run in foreground, then the outputs will go to stderr, and you can modify the service file to capture those to the journal; then they won't go to syslog
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21:59<tuxd3v>sarnold, many thanks, I was looking for the -S flag i can't find it in the manpages
22:00<sarnold>tuxd3v: hmm, if your manpage doesn't have it, then maybe your rngd doesn't have it either ;( I just read it with 'dman rngd' and assumed it was mature enough that there wouldn't be much difference among versions
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22:00<nickdiazswag209>if the repos configured in my sources.list doesnt contain build-essential, how do i tell which repo to download it from? im assuming the website would give this information, but maybe im just not finding it https://packages.debian.org/buster/build-essential
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22:01<nickdiazswag209>here's the output of my sources.list btw, https://gist.github.com/diazswag/b8a49803ae44b6a8a6fbe01ec8d681fc (and also shows i can't find it using apt-cache search)
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22:01<dvs>nickdiazswag209: you probably have an incomplete sources.list (only has security repo in it?)
22:02<nickdiazswag209>i have http://deb.debian.org/debian and http://security.debian.org/debian-security
22:03<dvs>nickdiazswag209: some people were having trouble with deb.debian.org. Try a local mirror temporarily.
22:04<nickdiazswag209>dvs: just did an apt-get update, saw that it refreshed 6 different repos, and then did an apt-cache search build-essential again, and i see it. I think i probably made a typo before or didn't perform apt-get update
22:05<sarnold>https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBullseye has suggested sources.list file
22:06<dvs>good!
22:07<sarnold>yeah, I remember ~20 years ago being very frustrated at how hard it was to learn what values to put in the sources.list :)
22:07<dvs>????
22:07<dvs>really? I always found it really easy.
22:07<dvs>the question was did the repo worked.
22:07<twb>OK thanks everybody. I rolled back to previous mainboard firmware, and /dev/sr0 exists normally
22:08<twb>It looks like the Chinese vendor has implemented "must not boot off DVD" by simply disabling the DVD drive entirely
22:08<sney>haha, fun
22:08<sarnold>twb: cute.
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22:09<tjcarter>sarnold: deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free, done 😁
22:09<sarnold>tjcarter: 'sid' what is this newfangled thing :)
22:09<tjcarter>sid's been there 20 years
22:09<sney>20 years ago people were still hitting ftp.debian.org and wondering why it was so slow
22:10<twb>I was freaking out because I had told the vendor it passed out compliance tests
22:10<tjcarter>I was there, Gandalf, 20 years ago …
22:10<dvs>with their modems
22:10<twb>because I tested "plays DVDs" with first firmware
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22:11<tjcarter>sney: that much is true
22:11*Sqrt{not} was definitely on dialup 20 years ago
22:11*tjcarter was not, thank God.
22:11*sney went to a school that had a T1 or something
22:12-!-Kuririnmagic [~Kuririnma@ec2-34-229-213-44.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:12*dvs had normal ADSL 1 at that time.
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22:14<sussudio>i have a stack of modems.
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22:16<dvs>Well, I wouldn't call three a stack but so do I!
22:16<tjcarter>ADSL here as well
22:17<tjcarter>it was faster than what Comcast tends to offer for the same price today.
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22:17<dvs>Ah, that whole 1Mbps... luxury!
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22:18<sney>I found my old beige USR 56K modem in a box a few weeks ago. probably still works!
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22:19<tuxd3v>sney it should
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22:20<tuxd3v>I still have a laptop which has a modem 56k on it :)
22:20<dvs>Mine's in my closet!
22:21<tuxd3v>mine is in the sofa :), its my auntie computer :)
22:21<sney>some whole computers are smaller than that modem. not only sbc stuff either, it's roughly comparable to slimmer NUC boxes
22:21<dvs>*IN* the sofa??? That's some computer case!
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22:25<tuxd3v>sney, mine in embedded in the laptop, so it should be very small :)
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22:25<dvs>*IN* the laptop???? That's some laptop! ;-P
22:26<sney>lol
22:26<tuxd3v>dvs, yeah, I own this computer for some 15 years if not more, and it still kicks, with 1 core i686, 1GB Ram
22:26<sney>the one in the laptop is probably a software modem anyway. laptop modems with hardware controllers were rare... and getting those winmodems to work in linux used to be the most annoying thing
22:26<sney>I imagine it's not so bad now
22:27<sney>let's see if dpkg knows about them
22:27<sney>!linmodem
22:27<dpkg>A Winmodem (or software modem) is a modem with minimal hardware, relying on the host computer to perform most or all processing and operational tasks. For device support on Debian systems, ask me about <agrsm>, <martian>, <sv92p> (Agere/Lucent); <slmodem> (SmartLink); <pctel> (PCTel); <sm56> (Motorola); <hcf>, <hsf> (Conexant/Rockwell). See also <3com>, <winmodem-trick> http://www.linmodems.org/
22:28<sney>glad I don't have to think about dialing anymore.
22:28<tuxd3v>dpkg has acquired serious powers :)
22:28<dpkg>bugger all, i dunno, tuxd3v
22:28<tuxd3v>:D
22:29<dvs>Getting ppp to work wasn't so bad.
22:29<tuxd3v>I still remember when it was trying to conect, all the noise.. at the time I didn't had internet, so the phoneline was the real deal
22:30<tuxd3v>the sounds it does, and the speed my god.. ofcourse at the time internet was html, nowadays the pages are very heavy, and tons of data is needed
22:31<dvs>yeah, lots of multimedia now.
22:32<tuxd3v>agree, and if you paid by trafic montly you will have to suffer the consequences of all that spam in the webpages consuming your precious bandwith..
22:33<tuxd3v>one of this days I will conect that and make a experience.. :)
22:33<tuxd3v>I still have a telephone cable here, but I don't own a fix phone anymore however, maybe they forgot to disconect my cable :)
22:34<tuxd3v>I would not gain much, for start I will loose a lot due to 56K speed LOL :D
22:35<tuxd3v>my pentium 166Mhz houever had 2 different modems in times
22:35<dvs>I have VoIP and I direct spam calls to it (anyone that insists on getting a phone number)
22:36<tuxd3v>does any one knows where to find Ram for a pentium 1 motherboard? :)
22:37<tuxd3v>I have only 48MB of ram in it :(
22:37<tuxd3v>it came with 32MB i think
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22:38<dvs>so that's just DDR 1?
22:38<sney>no way, that would be EDO probably
22:38<sney>or maybe PC100 or PC66 SDRAM
22:38<dvs>O_O
22:39<sney>anyway I would guess ebay but haven't looked for anything that old in a long time. part numbers from big oems might help, like whatever compaq's -001 code was
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22:41<ofto>I searched for a lightweight generic IDE but I haven't found it yet, I've seen the suggestions but I prefer windowed IDE to use with the mouse.
22:43<sussudio>doesn't everyone have a bucket of obsolete ram?
22:44<twb>not any more
22:44<sussudio>and a stack of motherboards
22:44<twb>$coworker still has a 10M bit/s ethernet hub
22:44<sney>moved too many times over the years, oldest stuff I have is 2010ish
22:44<twb>not a switch. A hub.
22:44<sussudio>i have one with coax and rj45
22:44<tuxd3v>sney I am trying to find this modules
22:44<twb>sussudio: haha yes I threw those out
22:44<twb>fucking thinwire
22:45<sussudio>... and thickwire
22:45<sussudio>token ring.
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22:45<tuxd3v>at a time , a guy that I know works with ATMs, and he provided me with gorgeous 120MB Ram modules, but I tested them, and it doesn't recognize them :/
22:45<tuxd3v>a pain to find memory, and if you find it costs alot of money..
22:46<sney>tuxd3v: it may even be economical to buy a whole computer of that era rather than parts, haha
22:46<sney>I still have a pair of those adapters that let you run 100Mbit ethernet over a single coax cable. less and less likely that I'll ever need to do that again, but you never know...
22:46<dvs>sussudio: I have a few sticks of DDR3, 2, and 1 around
22:46<tuxd3v>indeed you nailed it down correclty, its just... my first computer.. you guys know :)
22:47<dvs>there's a DFE-530TX around here somewhere.
22:47<tuxd3v>I need to take the dust out of it, and see what ram it uses :D
22:48<tuxd3v>it has a tinny coler abobe
22:48<tuxd3v>above
22:48<tuxd3v>but hey I was able to run dirty Rally on it in my graphics a s3 virge 2RM VRAM
22:48<tuxd3v>MB
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22:49<tuxd3v>or it was wrc ralie,well it was a very good game at the time :)
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22:51<sney>ofto: for general IDE people usually mention atom, or vscode etc. neither one is in debian but iirc it's pretty easy to do from outside repos or snap/flatpak etc
22:52<tuxd3v>ofto, for a small project I would sugest the best ide... the text editor with a makefile :)
22:55<Thrift>Excuse me, is there an IRC channel about fetchmail? I am not find the relevant information on its official website(https://www.fetchmail.info/
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23:05<tuxd3v>dvs, so.. you also have the good old stuff :)
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23:09<dvs>Yes! They don't make'em like that anymore!
23:10*dvs lookes for his Labtec CS-550 speakers
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23:17<ofto>tuxd3v: I didn't want to have to exit the text editor to run the file
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23:19<sney>terminal emulator with tabs
23:20<tuxd3v>ofto, there are also the geany ide, which I like, but I only go that road when I for sure need to debug, and my project is big
23:20<tuxd3v>sney, agree
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23:20<tuxd3v>or tilda :)
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23:26<Dresden2>Any idea for alternates to gnuplot - I had no idea it wasn't gnu! (or open source)
23:28<sussudio>!any ideas
23:28<dpkg>Yeah, I have an idea! But I'll need a bag full of condoms, a little WD-40, and a dozen sex-crazed ostriches. And keep the KGB off my back for the next few minutes!
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23:31<Dresden2>I don't usually keep the condoms
23:32<Dresden2>sussudio: I'll take that as "I don't know but I want to say something" - thanks for your effort but I'm a results guy
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23:52<tuxd3v>Dresden2, you don't like gnuplot?
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 05 00:00:50 2021