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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-11-07

---Logopened Sun Nov 07 00:00:11 2021
---Daychanged Sun Nov 07 2021
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00:01-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #debian-quebec #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:01<lhvf>tuxd3v: I tried the Ubuntu 12.04 on the Dell Latitude D505 of this my old Teacher (and having Unity as the default Desktop Interface), and with 1GB of RAM (from up to 2GB only), the things were 4x + slower.. Many time after I've discovered that is possible to remove Unity DE, and its Shell Plugin and put GNOME3 and GDM, instead of Unity and LighDM...
00:03<lhvf>And GNOME2 was a Killer DE (and a lightweight one.. -- like Windows 98 or XP..).
00:03<lhvf>Off-Topic (sorry..)
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00:12<superkuh_>gnome24life high five!
00:14<lhvf>tuxd3v: I've devoluted the metioned Notebook to my Teacher, because I was busy with a College Course, and, unfortunately, the Computer have burned of became defectuous in the Month that Debian 7 has been released, at May, 2013. Coincidence?
00:14<lhvf>tuxd3v: The first Debian Release with the Support of the newer Intel Driver (at that time..), in the case i915. And with many stabilities and many improvements in relation to Ubuntu in my opinion (Debian costumate to be lighter than Ubuntu sometimes).
00:16<lhvf>tuxd3v: I was trying to make a Multimedia Install Notebook with Linux to my old Teacher.
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00:27<lhvf>tuxd3v: The Debian Repositories are more clean and not heavy interlaced, causing conflicts like Ubuntu.
00:27<tuxd3v>lhvf, agree
00:28<jkc>That's a nonsensical statement.
00:29<jkc>You can have your reasons for prefering Debian over Ubuntu - I certainly do - but let's not go down the path of facile faux-technical comparisons like that.
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00:35<lhvf>tuxd3v: The related problem (I guess) is the less customizations and the way 'spartan' to configure the things, become the things 'lighter'. From here (translated from Portuguese to English): → < >:
00:35<lhvf>"as many packages are built with fewer components and more optimized options, which results in significantly higher overall performance, especially on more modest machines. "
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00:46<lhvf>The tangle of packages and repositories in Ubuntu can be a serious problem.
00:47<lhvf>I'll shutdown. Bye to Everyone for now. Maybe I'll continue the conversation from my Smartphone..
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00:56<tuxd3v>lhvf, ok cya later
00:56<tuxd3v>good bye
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01:03<lhvf>tuxd3v: My father will disconnect the UTP crossover Cable next minutes (maybe..). (I could use the WiFi instead.. ). But I'll go to bed. It's 2AM here.
01:04<tuxd3v>go ahead lhvf ;)
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01:06<sussudio>most ethernet chipsets will do the crossover by themselves using a normal cable if they detect it
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02:18<mendel_munkis>how bad of an idea is it to rm -f /proc/pid ?
02:19<mendel_munkis>er -rf
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02:21<wusa>[02:19] <wusa> are there any consulting folks that i can recommend to a local uni system or two here in ny? [02:19] <wusa> that know specifically about debian? [02:20] <wusa> cloud solutions for professors, students, teachers, tutors, faculty, admins, etc ? [02:20] <wusa> guess i can poiint them to the debian-edu site [02:20] <wusa> and recommend nextcloud
02:22<mendel_munkis>because said process appears to have hung, and no longer appears in ps -aux after kill -9ing it (although ps hangs partway through it's outpput and as glannces has apperead to hang aswell and lsof gives no usable output)
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02:23<sussudio>how is deleting an entire dir going to fix that
02:24<sussudio>wait, i don't even have a /proc/pid... is that a 5 kernel thing or something
02:24<mendel_munkis>that should be rm -rf /proc/$PID
02:25<sussudio>what do you hope to achieve by deleting that
02:25<mendel_munkis>aand I would assume the kernel has _some_ mechanism for handling said folder disappearing I just have no clue hat it is.
02:26<sussudio>i doubt it will do anything positive
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02:28<mendel_munkis>now I have to try it on a sacrificial boot
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02:36<mendel_munkis>rm will refuse to delete it
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02:38<at0m>/proc isn't a "real" filesystem either, as it reflects what processes are running
02:38<mendel_munkis>I am aware.
02:41<at0m>ok so the real issue you're trying to solve is "process appears to have hung, and no longer appears in ps -aux after kill -9ing it"
02:41<mendel_munkis>yes, that problem is what lead me to wonder about my earlier question.
02:42<at0m>is that an issue really? like, is it still using resources - cpu, memory, .. ?
02:42<mendel_munkis>I've also noticed that less /proc/$pid/cmdline hangs
02:43<mendel_munkis>well my main system moniter seems to have simultaniusly hung, but i3bar is showing a very high cpu load
02:44<at0m>does top show what process is causing that cpu load?
02:44<mendel_munkis>well the proccesss apears when i run ps in the same term
02:44<mendel_munkis>(just checked)
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02:46<mendel_munkis>top doesn't show any particulary large CPU consumers
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02:48<mendel_munkis>xkill closed the window but seems not to have further killed the process.
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02:53<thanigai>my Dell Inspiron laptop no sound after install debian 11
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03:28<nolash>I am trying to build a deb package from a python package on archlinux. the dh* tools I have available are not working, and I'm stuck at: dpkg-genbuildinfo: error: binary build with no binary artifacts found; .buildinfo is meaningless
03:30<nolash>Suspect the output of python install isnt being found, so Ive tried putting the python output in debian/python-pkg debian/pkg debian/python3-pkg ./pkg ./python-pkg ./python3-pkg, makes no difference.
03:30<nolash>The source build builds ok (dpkg-buildpackage -S)
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03:31<nolash>ive tried stdeb too, but it relies on dpkg-query :/
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05:05<nurupo>how to make nano save the file under a new inode?
05:06<nurupo>somewhat tired of shooting myself into the foot by editing running shell scripts for them to hot-reload from disk and error
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05:11<nurupo>right, you can do that and then `mv`
05:12<nurupo>however, i was looking for some built-in way in nano :x
05:12<nurupo>vim does this by default afaik and i think there was some option in nano too, but i'm reading through the doc and can't find it
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05:13<at0m>nano, edit, Ctrl-O, Ctrl-X, chmod +x ? but then other perms might still be off
05:14<chrisgt>yea i don't know if nano will preserve the permissions of the original script when you do that
05:14<at0m>cp makes sure permissions, ownership etc are preserved
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05:32<Nachtwolke>ahmmm hi
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06:38<Gwalenn>Hi, i have a big problem. I need around 3 mn between the login screen and my kde desktop
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06:46<at0m>Gwalenn: anything in "systemd-analyze blame" that could be postponing kde desktop? longest times are shown first..
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06:48<at0m>Gwalenn: are you restoring the desktop on login? or start a new one on each login?
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06:52<Gwalenn>at0m, start a new one
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06:56<Gwalenn>I give up, i don't now why but my debian is broken
06:58<at0m>your OS is not broken. KDE takes a while to start.
06:58<at0m>Gwalenn: did you run that "systemd-analyze blame" ?
06:58<Gwalenn>i got errors in my home partition
06:59<at0m>what errors
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06:59<at0m>filesystem errors? errors in .xsession-errors?
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07:00<sussudio>Gwalenn: debian is not broken, something in your system is. last person that came in here and complained about something similar had a malfunctioning usb hub that caused the delay.
07:01<Gwalenn> i do not see nothing special
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07:02<Gwalenn>at0m, error after checking my home partition with e2fsck -vf
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07:04<Gwalenn>ok, i will unplugg all and coming back if i can
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07:04<at0m>Gwalenn: also, from what i find online, installing haveged expedites crng and kde waits for crng
07:04<at0m>but your logs would show more
07:05<at0m>yay they left
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07:12<jkc>at0m: That hasn't been necessary for quite a long time. rng doesn't block anymore.
07:12<at0m>jkc: oh ok, thanks
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07:15<Gwalenn>all hub etc. was unplugged.Only keyboard and mouse connected. Same thing. Trying xfcd desktop ?
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07:53<Tj>Tip: for user problems "journalctl --user -b" is often a great help
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08:23<alex11>if i back up .mozilla will it keep my history, bookmarks etc?
08:23<alex11>i guess so
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08:29<dvs>alex11: you can export your bookmarks to a file. Dunno about history.
08:31<alex11>i know firefox has Sync, i was just hoping rsync could do it all
08:31<alex11>separate question - is rsync basically ok? should i look into borg for what's just a basic backup?
08:31<at0m>alex11: yea you can move over .mozilla/firefox just fine
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08:32<at0m>why not backup all your /home
08:32<alex11>the only thing is, with profiles... if i have to reinstall debian and install firefox-esr again it's going to come with a different identifier, so all those things that are saved will be meaningless
08:32<alex11>well i will back up my entire /home, that was always the plan anyway
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08:34<alex11>i guess that might actually be the point of sync
08:34<alex11>i have to look this up
08:34<at0m>alex11: i've moved over profiles and all just fine, you can edit .mozilla/firefox/profiles.ini to move profiles around if you want
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08:35<at0m>but since restoring will also restore .mozilla/firefox/profiles.ini, ff will take that and the dirs it references
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08:37<alex11>oh right
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08:41<g00se> Can someone kindly tell me what's wrong with base64 -d | tar x -C delme <<EOF (where the rest is the here document) since tar clearly doesn't like it?
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08:46<jkc>g00se: "what's wrong" and "doesn't like" are very vague. It would help if you pastebinned a log that shows what happens.
08:48<g00se>tar: This does not look like a tar archive
08:49<raven523>is the input a base64-encoded tar file?
08:49<jkc>But I would try this: base64 -d << EOF | tar xf - -C delme
08:50<g00se>Ah will try
08:51<g00se>raven523: Yes
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08:51<raven523>is it compressed?
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08:53<raven523>which format? xz?
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08:54<amacater_>Run file on it to find out. tar and gzip can now handle multiple formats
08:54<g00se>jkc: Very close thanks. Actually the lone '-' it doesn't like. Works fine without it. Thanks.
08:54<jkc>g00se: I use it all the time with that exact functionality. "Input file is stdin."
08:54<jkc>But, hey, it works.
08:54*g00se always finds piped commands tricky with HERE docs
08:55<g00se>tar: -: Not found in archive
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08:55<jkc>base64 -d << EOF | tar xvzf - -C test
08:55<jkc>I just tested it with even a compressed archive.
08:56<g00se>Is there a space between those hyphens?
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08:56<g00se>I'll do exactly that and see what happens
08:58<g00se>Ah hang on. Yours is different – it has the 'f' parameter, so yours is expecting, and finding, file '-'
08:59<jkc>That's the one.
09:00<jkc>Probably vestigial, it's a habit.
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09:08<g00se>I'll bzip it - fewer lines
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10:04<g00se>Thanks folks
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10:26<rjb>Metapackage for Qt5?
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10:35<mendel_munkis>what does a negative value (-1) as the first in /proc/$PID/syscall represent?
10:35<Habbie> If the process is blocked, but not in a system call, then
10:35<Habbie> the file displays -1 in place of the system call number,
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10:39<mendel_munkis>ah missed that, thanks
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10:46<joeDoe>does anyone know how to add an existing remote calendar to korganizer? I'm trying to debug an evolution, gnome-calendar problem by seeing if korganizer does it too. But, I can't figure out how to add an existing calendar and the documentation at is pretty sparse. I think I don't know how to specify the url properly. If I use the same url
10:46<joeDoe>as for evolution, I don't see the calendar
10:47<joeDoe>the remote calendar is on a radicale server that I control
10:48*joeDoe is not, however, in control of the situation :P
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10:53<EmleyMoor>How do I delete a paste from (simply)?
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11:01<boud>I have deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list and have done 'aptitude update', but 'apt-get source <package>' gives me "Reading package lists... Done\nE: Unable to find a source package for <package>" for several different packages. This is after updating to buster then bullseye a few weeks ago.
11:02<boud>How can I check what my apt system thinks it knows about source packages?
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11:05<boud>In principle the files /var/lib/apt/lists/*source* have this info - and they do seem to have it.
11:08<Sqrt{not}>boud, apt showsrc somepkg
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11:11<boud>Sqrt{not} 'apt showsrc somepkg' works for me - it shows package 'somepkg'.
11:11<boud>But 'apt-get source somepkg' still gives the same two-line error.
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11:11<boud>Probably I've done some silly error, but I don't see what it is.
11:13<boud>'works for me' -> shows a few dozen lines of package properties
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11:22<trevorksmith>Does anyone know the specification for what type of serial port this is? -
11:23<trevorksmith>All my SAS ports are coming up as fault, im assming the management RJ45 ports are all disabled currently and only way to manage this is via serial port, which i dont have much expereince with, and more unlikely, dont have the cable.
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11:26<Sqrt{not}>trevorksmith, is it possibly a PS2 port?
11:27<trevorksmith>Ill walk down to basement to double verify but i dont think so. Certainly doesnt like it from diagram.
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11:32<trevorksmith>Two photos - Their alot smaller
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11:34<sney>that looks like it's probably for some kind of 1/8" TRS kind of connector
11:35<sney>I've never seen a serial dongle like that, but it would work. easy to solder one up from commodity junk if you know the pinout
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11:38<Tj>trevorksmith: looks like a small 3-pin DIN
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11:49<trevorksmith>sney, think something like this? I think your right. OR
11:50<trevorksmith>Dont think its a 3-pin DIN. Femal end definitely lools like something similar to an audio jack.
11:50<sney>yes like that
11:51<Tj>trevorksmith: are those sun storage arrays?
11:52<trevorksmith>Seagate EXOS 106 -
11:52<trevorksmith>I been struggling with the management part of this thing, have yet to get into it. Documention on management seems to be kinda lacking IMO. idk
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12:02<Sqrt{not}>boud, can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list and anything in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
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12:05<Tj>trevorksmith: I like how it says "Ddumps can be captured via the following interfaces: serial, Telnet, WCLI/SES." !
12:06<rhiamom>simple couple questions. where can I find my trusty old root gedit app?
12:06<rhiamom>failing that, how do I get myself added to the sudo file?
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12:08<Sqrt{not}>rhiamom, how are you becoming root?
12:08<rhiamom>I'm not. that's the problem
12:08<Sqrt{not}>rhiamom, how are you TRYING to become root?
12:08<rhiamom>well, typing root into the terminal doesn't work anymore
12:09<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>su is the command that will ask you for the root password and then drop you to a shell where you are root
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12:10<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>you can add yourself to the sudoers file to allow you to type sudo whatever to become root for just executing one command.
12:10<noob_with_troubles>Hi! I have a problem with new nvme ssd. I have put it to raid1 (hybrid, with hdd in "write-mostly" mode). Since that my Debian 11 system (latest package updates installed) lags like hell. But the worst is boot process, which stops randomly on different stages and the only option to boot is deleting nvme ssd mirror from live-usb - then system boots normally with degraded raid1. What are the options to troubleshoot this?
12:11<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom: doas is packaged in debian, too, which has an easier syntax for the doas.conf file and allows you to do the same. I'd recommend that one.
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12:12<rhiamom>oh, joy. I ned to be root in a non X terminal
12:12<rhiamom>didn't I used to be able to get there with F2??
12:13<rhiamom>also, boomer warning, but boomer who goes back to Potato
12:13<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>ctrl+alt+F3 or the like will allow you to switch between ttys
12:13<rhiamom>thank you ever so much. what a pain to just install a video driver!
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12:14<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>which one are you trying to install?
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12:16<rhiamom>the Nvidia one for my 2080Ti
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12:17<rhiamom>and I need to be completely out of X, not just in a different terminal
12:18<flatbed_dizzy_avenue> do it this way instead. I assume you are trying to install a nvidia driver from a .run file. Don't do that.
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12:20<rhiamom>yes, I am, thank you.
12:20<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>Do it this way it saves you a lot of trouble.
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12:35<noob_with_troubles>Can anyone help me with NVME SSD problems?
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12:38<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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12:39<noob_with_troubles>Hi! I have a problem with new nvme ssd. I have put it to raid1 (hybrid, with hdd in "write-mostly" mode). Since that my Debian 11 system (latest package updates installed) lags like hell. But the worst is boot process, which stops randomly on different stages and the only option to boot is deleting nvme ssd mirror from live-usb - then system boots normally with degraded raid1. What are the options to troubleshoot this?
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12:40<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>So it is a raid 1 containing one fast ssd and a hdd? Is the combined boot slower than just booting from the hdd?
12:42<noob_with_troubles>It is hybrid raid 1 like described here:
12:42<noob_with_troubles>It worked fine with SATA SSD but NVME makes system laggy and almost unbootable
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12:44<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>How fast booting from just the hdd compared to the combined scenario?
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12:45<noob_with_troubles>hdd boots slowly but stable, hybrid just stops/lags on random moments
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12:46<noob_with_troubles>when I add NVME SSD mirror on already booted system and it recovers, the system becomes laggy and buggy
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12:48<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>It might be that doing that is a bad idea then.
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12:49<noob_with_troubles>anyway, why SATA SSD worked fine but NVME lags?
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12:49<noob_with_troubles>any ideas?
12:49<jkc>You're trying to do a RAID1 across not just different speeds, but also different interfaces.
12:49<jkc>This is a bad idea.
12:50<noob_with_troubles>is mdadm not ready for this?
12:50<jkc>I think you misunderstood me. It's a stupid idea, not because mdadm can't do it - it obviously can - but because it is a stupid idea conceptually.
12:50<jkc>If you want to stick an SSD in front of a RAID across spinning disks as a cache, then great, but what you're doing is not it.
12:51<noob_with_troubles>Read speed of nvme ssd and write speed of HDD - why not?
12:51<jkc>That's not how it works.
12:52<jkc>I'm sure that $randomWebsite3984730546 says it works fine, but it's... just not.
12:52<jkc>Reads are spanned across mirrored devices. You're going at HDD speeds no matter what you do.
12:52<jkc>So, there you go. Bad idea.
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12:52<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>noob_with_trouble what is your objective with this setup? Are you hoping to have a backup or what's the goal?
12:53<noob_with_troubles>do you know about "write-mostly" mdadm option?
12:54<noob_with_troubles>my goal is RAID1 with nvme ssd read speed and hdd write speed + reliability of both hdd and ssd
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12:57<noob_with_troubles>I had same thing with SATA SSD and it made my system really fast, so why shouldn't it work with NVME SSD?
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13:00<noob_with_troubles>Okay, let's try other side. How to test NVME SSD perfomance?
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13:03<Tj>noob_with_troubles: have you checked the kernel log for indications of problems?
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13:03<noob_with_troubles>dmesg? Yes, seems nothing specific at the moment.
13:05<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom Did the driver installation go well?
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13:08<noob_with_troubles>I try "#dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/nvme0n1p2 bs=1M status=progress", it takes 50% CPU, is it normal?
13:09<noob_with_troubles>nothing in dmesg
13:09<noob_with_troubles>*related to nvme ssd
13:11<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>As your setup is conceptually not fit to lead to an improvement over just using the ssd as a boot device and the hhd to store a backup on, there doesn't need to be an issue for there to be bad performance.
13:11<rhiamom>well, that did not work. I now have the Dell i915 driver instead of the nouveau driver. Not the driver for my 2080Ti
13:13<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>If you can disable the iGPU in the bios that would remove lots of potential for complications.
13:14<rhiamom>yes, it would, but I doubt the i915 driver would be very happy and I foresee no display
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13:15<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>The i915 driver will not be loaded if there is no intel igpu.
13:15<rhiamom>and what will load?
13:15<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>nouveau or the nvidia driver.
13:16<rhiamom>worth a try.
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13:18<LionKing>Hello World
13:19<LionKing>Has anyone managed to run Bareos 20.0.x on Debian 11 and it is actually working?
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13:21<LionKing>I always get a TLS negotiation failure when I try to start a job although I have "TLS Enable = no" on the director and all clients
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13:24<noob_with_troubles>Is there any need to install NVME SSD driver for linux?
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13:27<one>could try for your SSD - there may be user reports there indicating if they had it work
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13:30<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>noob_with_trouble The times where SSDs had slower write performance than HDDs are long over...
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13:50<luckyuser>ello guys
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13:53<rhiamom>there seems to be no option to disable the GPU.
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13:56<flatbed_dizzy_avenue> if you start reading this page from the top and understand the concepts behind the steps you are taking it should lead to a successful installation of the driver. Then after a reboot the System should use the nvidia driver even if there is an integrated intel gpu, too.
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13:56<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>If you have questions along the way you are of course welcome to ask.
13:56<sney>yes, bullseye made the optimus thing a lot easier generally. no more of that bumblebee/primus stuff
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13:59<rhiamom>thank you. will start reading.
14:00<sney>this too, noting what it says about gnome 3.36+ and steam,
14:03<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>I think it might be that the first step of "doas apt install linux-headers-amd64" was missing. From memory I assumed that nvidia-driver-dkms depends on the headers, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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14:12<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>You might have to reinstall the nvidia-driver package after the linux-headers package is installed to trigger the actual building of the dkms modules, but I am not sure whether that is that case.
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14:19<sney>nope, installing linux headers will always trigger dkms
14:22<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>alight, good to know.
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14:38<rhiamom>dkms triggered the headers before
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14:39<rhiamom>and nothing so far is any different than what was already suggested.
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14:40<rhiamom>nvidia-detect finds both cards, but defaults to the integrated one. I need to be able to install the driver manually and modprobe to force it to load, if I recall how things work correctly. Or rebuild my kernel with the right driver included
14:41<Forty-Bot>how do I install postgresql without creating the default database?
14:41<Forty-Bot>or, more generally, how do I install a package without setting up the server (e.g. postfix also does this iirc)
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14:43<at0m>Forty-Bot: not very familiar with packaging, but you could untar the .deb, modify the post-install script and put it back together
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14:43<Forty-Bot>I'd rather do something a bit less intrusive ;)
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14:44<at0m>Forty-Bot: well, if creating a default db is part of the post-inst script, that's what installing will do..
14:44<at0m>ie., create a default db
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14:49<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom I don't expect that manual installation of the nvidia-driver will lead to different results as to whether the intel or the nvidia card will be choosen for display output.
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14:51<Forty-Bot>hm, I was hoping that there would be some debconf
14:53<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhimom laptops which include an intel igpu and a nvidia dgpu tend to have some kind of mechanism to allow the usage of one or the other. that can be a hardware mux or an "optimus" device. those are handled differently. As there doesn't seem to be a switch in the bios i'd recommend you try to figure out what is used in your device. if the laptop has a hardware mux (but I think those have gone out of fashion) vga_switcheroo is the me
14:53<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>m in linux that would be used to switch.
14:55<at0m>Forty-Bot: you can try, dpkg-reconfigure debconf and select "Low" there. then new packages installation will show all dialogs that are available
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14:56<Forty-Bot>still doesn't show anything :l
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14:57<at0m>Forty-Bot: what problem are you trying to solve?
14:57<Forty-Bot>I am scripting my setup
14:58<Forty-Bot>and I put my database somewhere else
14:58<Forty-Bot>so creating a database in the default location serves no purpose
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14:58<Forty-Bot>not a problem per se, but it would be nice if I had the option to save a few seconds
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15:02<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom, you are on a desktop right? If so there is most likely two different display outputs on the back of the tower. One is a row that is coming out of the graphics card, and one will be somewhere next to the other peripherals. You need to connect the display cable to the right one, as the first group comes out of the nvidia card and the other one is connected to the cpu that includes the intel iGPU.
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15:03<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>If the display cable is connected to the output of the igpu that can of course not be fixed in software
15:03<cowboypenguin>How much sense does it make to switch to the backported flatpak in bullseye backports? I use several flatpaks, so I wonder whether it's a better move to use the backported version or stick with the stable version.
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15:07<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>If what you have now works fine for you I'd say stick with what you have. Otherwise you can check for the changes between the two version numbers and see if there is any change you deem worth having.
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15:08<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>apparently someone cared enough to make a backport for it, so there likely is something cool in there, but that can be said for everything in backports in some way.
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15:10<cowboypenguin>flatbed_dizzy_avenue: Cool, sounds good. Stable's version does occasionally crash and refuse to update, so maybe the backport fixes that issue. I'll go over the changelogs, that's a good idea. Thanks!
15:12<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>I don't expect anything to break if you just install the backport reboot and see what happens either.
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15:13<cowboypenguin>flatbed_dizzy_avenue: Right, I'll probably do that and take advantage of a btrfs snapshot beforehand.
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15:14<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>the local flatpack client needs to stay compatible with the ecosystem offered by flathub, so it does make sense that sticking to a set version might lead to problems eventually. This is speculation though, I don't actually know how fast the "interfaces" change
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15:16<cowboypenguin>flatbed_dizzy_avenue: Exactly my concern. Going over the changelog, it sure seems like flatpak is not something I'd want to let gather dust, but on the other hand, if nothing is broken, I do want to keep it all running just as it is and take advantage of security fixes only.
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15:18<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>I don't think anything will blow up either way.
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15:19<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>cowboypenguin what tooling do you use to take a btrfs snapshot and how would you go about rolling back after a change? I never investigated this on debian, even though I use and like btrfs for the deduplication and compression support.
15:21<rhiamom> flatbed, yes, I am connected to the correct graphics card. Not the integrated card.
15:21<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>Honestly I don't understand how you are getting output from the intel card then (if that is really the case even).
15:22<rhiamom>I doubt I am getting output from the Intel card.
15:22<cowboypenguin>flatbed_dizzy_avenue: I installed with the KDE live image using calamares, and it picked my subvolumes for me. I use TimeShift's GUI to administer.
15:23<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>Do you get the option to boot into a snapshot on the boot menu, or can you only roll back after boot from the gui?
15:23<rhiamom>bear in mind the installation defaulted to the nouveau driver
15:24<cowboypenguin>flatbed_dizzy_avenue: Pretty sure you can do either. I've usually seen TimeShift used from a LiveCD if you can't even get back in to your system. Mounting and chrooting and all that.
15:25<cowboypenguin>flatbed_dizzy_avenue: But I've never had that happen, so I can't speak to how reliable that process is.
15:25<rhiamom>the i915 driver was installed when I used nvidia-detect and let it build a driver.
15:25<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>I know OpenSuse does some work to make booting into old snapshots available from the grub menu, I was curious whether debian has the tooling to do it too.
15:27<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom what does the graphics entry on the about page of gnome-system-settings read?
15:30<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>and post the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list and the output of "apt reinstall linux-headers-amd64 nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree" to and we might be able to see the issue
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15:33<rhiamom>where is that located?
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15:35<flatbed_dizzy_avenue> /etc/apt/sources.list is a file on your filesystem, or what are you asking?
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15:36<rhiamom>where gnome-system-settings is located
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15:36<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>if you have gnome as your desktop environment it is just the settings application
15:37<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>if not you can either install it (messy) or you should be able to find an about page in the settings application of your desktop environment
15:40<rhiamom>I installed both Gnome and Cinnamon. there is NO useful info in settings, and barely any info at all
15:40<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>please just go to settings about and paste the contents of the graphics line
15:40<rhiamom>but it is seeing the 2080 cars
15:40<rhiamom>er, card
15:41<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>would you please do as instructed so I can be helpful
15:41<rhiamom>GeForce RTX 2080 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 / NVIDIA Corporation TU102 [GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Rev. A]
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15:42<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>that looks like the nvidia driver is installed and in use
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15:42<rhiamom>video 53248 2 dell_wmi,i915
15:43<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>if you open nvidia-settings, what happens?
15:43<Guest5271>rhiamom: hola
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15:45<rhiamom>I get the NVidia x-server settings window
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15:46<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>It wouldn't open if the nvidia driver wasn't in use, so I suspect you were successful in installing the driver. What makes you think you weren't / what were you expecting to change that hasn't?
15:46<rhiamom>7 minutes to boot?
15:47<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>use a full sentence, what do you mean?
15:48<rhiamom>from the time the loading screen say gnome server started to the time I get a visible display is 7 minutes. I get a movable mouse cursor after 4
15:49<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>So after you installed the driver it takes a long time for the system to boot fully, but before it didn't?
15:49<rhiamom>it did before, too. I hoped the driver would help
15:50<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>You never mentioned an issue like this, it may not be related to the display driver at all. Because all indications point to that the driver is installed correctly now.
15:51<rhiamom>I have terrible past experiences with Debian and Nvidia
15:52<sney>run 'systemd-analyze blame' to find out what's getting stuck on boot, it's likely something misconfigured that is timing out waiting
15:52<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>An issue like this shouldn't have happened with the noveau driver either (or just the default vga driver or whatever either).
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15:56<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>sney huh I have an entry 1min 30s apt-daily.service, but my system boots a lot quicker than that. Does this list entries that are not waited, too?
15:56<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>"waited on"
15:57<sney>a lot of things in that list are running in parallel too. I'm not sure what output to expect on a system without a problem, actually
15:58<Sqrt{not}>"The Internet is being scanned for viruses."
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15:59<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>"Hi. Welcome. The System is being set up. This will just take a moment"
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16:00<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom if you want us to be able to help you out, you can copy the output of the commands we tell you to run to and share the link here so we can see whats hapening
16:01<rhiamom>nothing taking much over a minute, and only 4 things taking close to a minute or more
16:01<rhiamom>plymouth-quit-wait.service is longest at 1 min 20 seconds
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16:02<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>if you are brave enough to just share the full output that would be useful for being helpful
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16:04<RoyK^>,v freecad
16:04<judd>Package: freecad on amd64 -- stretch: 0.16+dfsg2-3; buster: 0.18~pre1+dfsg1-5; bullseye: 0.19.1+dfsg1-2; bookworm: 0.19.2+dfsg1-3; sid: 0.19.2+dfsg1-3
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16:07<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom is the system fast and responsive apart from the long boot time?
16:08<rhiamom>not immediately after boot, but a few minutes later
16:08<rhiamom>it gets good
16:09<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>so you are on the desktop and then it takes a few minutes till it becomes good? what happens before then?
16:12<Sqrt{not}>what is in the syslog, or journal, or dmesg, at approximately that length of time after boot?
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16:14<rhiamom>before then, things either crash if I try to start an app, or take a long tome to start
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16:19<rhiamom>cannot find syslog,journal, or dmesg
16:19<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>If this were an old windows installation i'd say you probably have some malware and suggest a re installation.
16:20<rhiamom>windows starts right up
16:20<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>in /var/log there are the syslog and the dmesg
16:22<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>the journal is in /run/log/journal
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16:24<Sqrt{not}>you probably need the root command "dmesg" to see the current dmesg contents.
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16:26<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>Does debian have a page of documentation for when to look at the dmesg journal or syslog respectively. I wouldn't really know.
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16:29<Sqrt{not}>AFAIK, dmesg is kernel specific messages, while syslog is messages from daemons and root owned processes, etc.
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16:30<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>and the journal?
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16:33<rhiamom>the journal doesn't exist
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16:34<flatbed_dizzy_avenue>rhiamom it might be that your hard drive is failing, but while probable with the symptoms you describe, that really is a wild guess. For any other help you would need to share your dmesg and syslog
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16:38<Sqrt{not}><Tj> Tip: for user problems "journalctl --user -b" is often a great help
16:38<Sqrt{not}>you see the journal contents with the journalctl command
16:39<Sqrt{not}>see `man journalctl` for various options for what info you will see
16:43<somiaj>syslog on debian also contains almost all jounralctl output too, but journalctl just makes life easier to show relevant info
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16:47<boud>Sqrt{not} (UTC 16:02) -
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16:52<boud>Sqrt{not} - This problem occurs on 2 out of 3 debian/bullseye systems recently updated stretch->buster->bullseye. On the third system, 'apt-get source somepkg' works normally (downloads, untars, applies patches).
16:53<boud>The third system is a much more minimal system than the two with the bug.
16:53<boud>updated -> updated by me
16:55<boud>dpkg-source -x somepkg.dsc (with the three somepkg* files) works perfectly, but 'apt-get source somepkg' is more convenient.
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16:58<Sqrt{not}>boud, the only thing I notice there, is the security repo lines don't follow the changed format. See what dpkg says here:
16:58<Sqrt{not}>!bullseye sources.list
16:58<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb bullseye main" "deb bullseye-security main" "deb bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
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17:02<Sqrt{not}>boud, probably not the case with tu-dresden, but I think some mirrors don't include all source packages?
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17:15<rhiamom>dmesg and syslog are huge. will check them and paste what is new after I reboot after midnight.
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17:29<bhola>Hi. I am new to linux and I am lost in figuring out how network is managed in wsl2 debian. and I can't find network-manager, dhcpcd or sytemd-networkd service running. What is managing the interfaces?
17:30<sney>wsl has some odd stuff but I think it's just ifupdown
17:30<sney>see 'man 5 interfaces' for config syntax, the file is in /etc/network
17:31<bhola>The interfaces file and interface.d directory is empty.
17:31<sney>hrm, probably dictated by the windows host somehow then
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17:33<bhola>But windows host will communicate through one of these services. I don't know what could be any other way to comminicate with linux
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17:34<bhola>service --status-all command lists services networking with question mark
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17:36<sney>what does 'systemctl status networking' say?
17:37<sney>or, no systemctl in wsl2, 'service networking status'
17:38<bhola>it is not accepting systemctl as systemd is not used as init system. it is using the old systemV init system.
17:38<at0m>sney: am i the only one who's majorly confused by such reversal as systemctl vs service?
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17:38<bhola>System has not been booted with systemd as init system (PID 1). Can't operate. This is the response with systemctl command
17:38<sney>bhola: please look at my follow up comment
17:39<sney>at0m: yeah it took a minute to get used to
17:40<bhola>sney: Usage: /etc/init.d/networking {start|stop|reload|restart|force-reload} . This is the response with "service networking status"
17:41<sney>ah, fun
17:41<bhola>sney: really?? :):)
17:41<somiaj>maybe start with 'ip a' do you see any interfaces besides lo?
17:42<somiaj>what is it called?
17:42<bhola>Interface is running fine. my network is working but I am trying to figure out how it is working.
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17:43<somiaj>you don't have network manager installed?
17:43<sney>still haven't used any wsl2 systems myself yet. ok, look in dmesg for your ip address, and you may see a clue to what set it. e.g. 'dmesg |grep' or so
17:43<bhola>somiaj: Nopes. No network-manager installed.
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17:45<sney>heh, maybe it's connman again
17:45<bhola>[ 16.386838] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): eth0: link becomes ready [ 387.732256] TCP: eth0: Driver has suspect GRO implementation, TCP performance may be compromised.
17:46<bhola>sney: it didn't return nothing with my ip address. but it returned these two messages with interface name.
17:48<sney>still doesn't really tell us anything. In a normal debian system, this would be set in /etc/network/interfaces, which would then call dhclient to set the ip address by dhcp
17:48<sney>and maybe it's still dhclient doing this, but if there's nothing in /etc/network/interfaces then it's not clear how
17:49<sney>doesn't the wsl2 documentation say anything about it? this is MS's custom image after all
17:50<bhola>sney: this is exactly what i was thinking. But it has shattered what i have learnt so far about linux networing.
17:50<somiaj>how did you isntall this wls2 image? was it premade?
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17:51<bhola>II didn't see anything on internet about it.
17:52<bhola>somiaj: Yes it is downloaded from microsoft store.
17:52<somiaj>the fact that it doesn't have systemd and is using sysvinit makes it almost sound like someone else made this image (not that I know much about wsl2)
17:52<sney>I still kinda suspect that they did something with the kernel implementation that lets them set it directly from the host, without needing any other layers. kind of like how you can do it with lxc from the host
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17:53<somiaj>I was thinking that or maybe they have their own init.d script for this to work with the wsl2 layer
17:53<sney>somiaj: it is unfortunately standard for wsl2 to lack systemd, I'm guessing they couldn't get it to play nice with the hypervisor somehow
17:53<sney>oh yeah, some custom service might do it too
17:53<somiaj>yea, I haven't used wsl2, was wonering if you could install your own thing to it or have to use their prebuilt images, and since using microsofts prebuilt images, they probably did something non-standard
17:53<sney>bhola: I guess you could look at the /etc/init.d/netorking script and see what it does
17:54<bhola>sney: let me check it.
17:55<somiaj> -- there is the one from debian if you want to compare
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18:01<somiaj>though I would almost suspect an additional script they add vs modifing one provided by a debian package, but only cause I woudln't mess with the debian scripts myself
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18:03<bhola>somiaj: sney I am going through /etc/init.d/networking script. it is avery long script and I am trying to figure out from "start" option is case statement.
18:04<sney>hmm, I guess I have a windows machine running these days, I should see how this works myself
18:04<bhola>sney: is it widows 10?
18:05<sney>yes, and I'm already installing
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18:17<sney>what the, this is stretch with a 5.10 kernel
18:18<sney>somiaj: yes, it's a prebuilt image
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18:19<somiaj>I guess if they aren't using systemd, using stretch as the base might be reasonable?
18:20<sney>there's a virtual hyper-v nic on the windows side, preconfigured with a network, and indeed zero indication in the guest as to how the ip was assigned
18:20<sney>I suppose
18:20<sney>Linux trident #1 SMP Fri Apr 2 22:23:49 UTC 2021 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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18:26<sney>I guess bhola didn't feel like sticking around, and I feel like I know even less than I did before I started looking at this, but here's more for future reference somiaj
18:27<sney>but it's gotta be some internal driver voodoo that doesn't even let the client OS get involved
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18:29<somiaj>also appears the kernel is not built with modules, but only with what it needs.
18:29<sney>yeah. it's an odd duck for sure.
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18:31<somiaj>Though I guess it is more meant for say python/web devs/etc wanting a linux like system without having to admin/configure their own.
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18:32<somiaj>so in the end, this stuff probably doesn't matter much to those it was designed for, which is maybe to build/develop something on it, vs run an actual vm they configure
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18:36<sney>yeah microsoft's website explicitly says it's for web devs who want to use sed and bash without losing the overall windows environment
18:38<sney>fwiw, the base package set is a little odd (no 'less' among other things) but apt behaves normally, it's no cygwin
18:41<m0neyman>Chromium used really a lot of RAM
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18:41<m0neyman>Is it due to JS-tracking scripts?
18:42<sney>the modern web is a resource hog, no matter what browser you use.
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18:42<m0neyman>I'm sure because when I turned the JS any browser like firefox or chromium uses way less of RAM
18:42<m0neyman>*turned off
18:42<somiaj>Yea, every webpage wants to be a full webapp, with trackers, and loads a lot of things into memory, just the nature of the web these days.
18:43<somiaj>sure, JS is a lot of it, but not all, css and images can take up a bit too
18:43<m0neyman>Try yourself
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18:45<sney>yes, if you turn off javascript then your ram usage goes down. it also breaks a lot of websites when you do that. it's not like in the old days when it js was only used for ads and extra stuff
18:45<m0neyman>Yeah I'm aware of it
18:45<m0neyman>But look at e.g. tor sites
18:46<sney>I don't use tor so you'll have to say what you mean
18:46<m0neyman>They even require you to turn the JS off
18:46<m0neyman>The sites
18:46<m0neyman>The sites even require you to turn the JS off
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18:48<sney>for what? security, privacy? yes js can track your movements on the web, among many many other things.
18:48<m0neyman>Yeah for security and privacy reasons
18:48<sney>tracking is probably the most efficient use of it, compared to stuff like node
18:48<m0neyman>I think they mean the 0day exploits
18:48<sney>anyway, do you need help with something
18:49<m0neyman>I have strange bash error with $PATH
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18:49<m0neyman>wait maybe it is due to not using su -
18:51<m0neyman>Ah and I have a question how to compile the kernel because when I was doing it wrong it took really a lot of time and where can I find what exactly should be turn as a module or [*]
18:52<m0neyman>I've read some tutorials, etc but nobody thought how to compile it simple and minimal
18:52<somiaj>configuring a kernel can be difficult, though usually it shouldn't matter if you make it as a module or build it in, you just need to ensure certain modules are avaialbe to your initramfs.
18:52<somiaj>well there really isn't an answer to that, because a lot depends on your particular hardware, and most don't gain to much from stripping things out (since they are mostly just unloaded modules anyways)
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18:53<somiaj>Debian has a kernel handbook, but configuration is a very large and complex thing, there is no simple setup for a minimial kernel that only builds exactly what you need
18:53<somiaj>!kernel handbook
18:53<dpkg>The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook - packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Debian 7 "Wheezy" - serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source.
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18:53<at0m>only when tight space is an issue, i would compile kernel again.
18:53<m0neyman>somiaj: It must be a great book then
18:53<m0neyman>I will have to read it
18:53<m0neyman>Carefully XD
18:54<somiaj>the handbook mostly addresses buildign a kernel, not configuring it, as that changes over time as more options/hardware is added
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18:55<somiaj>yea, I haven't complied a kernel for a long time, since like 3.0 or so, the gain one gets is small compared to the amount of work required.
18:55<m0neyman>The error "perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C")." is because I'm not using su -?
18:55<m0neyman>Me too
18:55<somiaj>no, that is because you odn't have locales installed
18:55<somiaj>try 'apt install locales' and build the locale you want
18:55<m0neyman>I do have
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18:56<sney>then dpkg-reconfigure locales, and select the right utf-8 for your language
18:56<somiaj>then maybe you haven't built the locales you are requested, run 'locale', which locale are you trying to use?
18:56<sney>I think the last time I built my own kernel was to use a bugfix patch for an in-tree wifi driver. 3.x or even 2.6 maybe
18:56<sney>just don't need to anymore
18:57<somiaj>Yea, I use to like building minimial custom kernels with out any modules, but they just got too complicated to keep up with and the gain is small at best on modern hardware (there are use cases for this, but mostly probably are embeded systems, or systems that are very tight on resources, which most aren't)
18:58<sney>indeed, we're not fighting for those few MB of free memory anymore
18:59<m0neyman>Yeah I've figured it out
18:59<m0neyman>I didn't choose the correct locale in the config
18:59<m0neyman>I don't know why it didn't automatically refresh
19:00<somiaj>yea, debian only builds the locales you need, though I often find I build like 3-5 locales
19:00<somiaj>but you have to tell it which ones you want
19:01<m0neyman>I had selected en_GB in the config but the perl script was trying to find FR_fr
19:01<somiaj>for the most part that fallback warning is just that, things will work just fine
19:02<somiaj>In chroots I get that a lot just because no reason to install/build locales install the chroot to just build software
19:02<m0neyman>Yeah i've noticted that
19:02<somiaj>linux is often very verbose, and warnings are just to let you know what it is doing, up to the user to decide if it is something they care to fix or ignore.
19:02<m0neyman>Isn't using UTF-8 locale less secure than the ISO ones? I mean bugs in UTF-8 that happened in the past
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19:04<somiaj>Depends, hard to say without a threat model...But yes, utf-8 has had a few vulns, but they should mostly be fixed now
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19:05<somiaj>and most the utf-8 vulns aren't utf-8, but the program implmenting it
19:07<m0neyman>For me, using ISO is even more convenient how odd it sounds like because I don't need to watch characters that aren't in a language I'm typing
19:07<anjan>Hi, how do I change the kernel config and recompile the kernel on debian?
19:07<anjan>whats the recommended way?
19:07<somiaj>!kernel handbook
19:07<dpkg>The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook - packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Debian 7 "Wheezy" - serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source.
19:07<somiaj>anjan: there are various ways, and it partly depends on if you want the debian patches or not
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19:08<anjan>somiaj: this is the issue Im looking to fix:
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19:08<anjan>I know exactly what kernel modules to enable since someone on guix was nice enough to help me
19:08<somiaj>anjan: but the upstream kernel contains a make deb-pkg and bindeb-pkg (I prefer the bindeb-pkg) that will compile the kernel into a .deb for you
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19:08<anjan>ya, I would like that
19:09<anjan>I dont want anything thats not managed by my package manager
19:09<somiaj>anjan: you can get the configuration of debian kernels in /boot/config-version, and you can either use the upstream vanilla soruce or install the linux-source binary package to have the src installed into /usr/src with all the debian patches applied
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19:11<Sqrt{not}>anjan, if this is devuan, you will get more specific and correct advice from their channel. this here is debian.
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19:11<dselect>Devuan ( is a Debian <derivative>, meant to avoid dependencies on <systemd>. Not supported in #debian, please see #devuan on for support.
19:12<anjan>Sqrt[not]: I understand. I ran into the same issue on debian netinstall. They use the kernel config as you guys (I already asked). and they said, please fix it in upstream
19:12<anjan>I think this is an important thing to fix no?
19:13<somiaj>What exactly is the issue, you want to work with encrypted /boot? Do you really have to modify the kernel for this?
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19:13<anjan>my /boot isnt encrypted
19:13<anjan>I used the guided install
19:14<anjan>on debian
19:14<somiaj>Ahh, well on my encrypted debian system, I don't have this issue
19:14<anjan>somiaj: are you using coreboot?
19:14<somiaj>it asks for my password just fine, and it shows it there.
19:14<somiaj>not sure, using whatever the default is
19:14<anjan>coreboot is a custom bios for your pc
19:14<somiaj>I don't use encryption on my homesystem, just my work laptop I use rarely
19:14<anjan>so if you dont know, you are probably using the stock bios (which is likely nonfree)
19:14<somiaj>ahh, nope, just using the firmware provided by my manfacture
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19:15<at0m>coreboot needs to be flashed to the eeprom or so, right?
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19:15<anjan>ya something like that'
19:15<at0m>in order to replace the bios
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19:16<somiaj>So what is your end goal here, to get this working for you? Since you can reproduce it in debian you can see if there is a bug report on it and file a bug. If all it needs is a configuration option in the kernel enabled I'm sure they will consider it
19:17<somiaj>or in what option do you think recompiling the kernel with will make it behave better with coreboot?
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19:24<m0neyman>at0m: yeah the coreboot needs to be flashed
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19:36<tyzef[m]>Hi guys \o/, according to this page: , which desktop is the most light for small processor CPU ?
19:37<anjan>somiaj: end goal is to apply this patch
19:37<anjan>test the kernel with this config
19:37<anjan>and tell debian to enable these kernel modules
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19:42<cowboypenguin>tyzef[m]: If I were you, I'd make two USB drives. One with LXDE and one with XFCE. Personally, I think XFCE is very light and responsive, but can still look pretty with enough configuration. LXDE feels even lighter, but customizing it is a bigger challenge.
19:43<cowboypenguin>tyzef[m]: When you make two, you can boot into either live environment and see which one you prefer.
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19:47<tyzef[m]>Boud, that happens to me too, now you can change your root passwd ! hehe
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19:48<tyzef[m]>thanks cowboypenguin, I will try it.
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19:50<tyzef[m]>boud sorry, I have misspelled your nickname with "B" so I don't if have received my message.
19:51<boud>Sqrt{not} - Thanks for the hints. You're right that there's a small difference in the line(s) for the security repo. I've played around a bit with the syntax and with different mirrors, and I looked directly into the tu-dresden mirror. I guess I'll probably have to shift to the more "modern" format sooner or later, but I'll probably try to make that 'later'...
19:53<boud>tyzef[m] - no prob, irssi is case-insensitive for highlighting messages starting with my name
19:53<Sqrt{not}>boud, most likely not causing your current issue, but in the long run I think you will miss security fixes when that syntax is not changed
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19:54<tyzef[m]>thanks boud
19:55<boud>Sure, I'm not leaving that unfixed. There's no point just pretending to get security updates...
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20:02<boud>!bullseye sources.list
20:02<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb bullseye main" "deb bullseye-security main" "deb bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
20:04<boud>Using either (i) exactly these three lines + the equivalent with s/^deb/deb-src/ or (ii) using the sources.list file from machine 3 (where apt-get source works) on machine 2, and doing 'aptitude update' or 'aptitude clean; aptitude update' does not solve the problem on machine 2.
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20:07<boud>aptitude safe-upgrade # is probably also needed, especially if I was missing some security updates
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20:19<boud>No, that doesn't solve the bug.
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21:04<Sqrt{not}>boud, does machine 2 have anything in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ?
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21:05<GrayDolf>How does this work?
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21:07<dselect>You are chatting on IRC. IRC is the original group chat. Similar to platforms like Slack, Matrix, or Discord, IRC was invented in the 1980s and formalized with RFC 1459 in 1993. This channel, #debian, is for help with the debian operating system. Ask us a debian support question, or read more about IRC at or
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21:17<dpkg>Do not use public away/back messages in #debian. If we want to know where you are, we'll /whois you. In BitchX, /set auto_away off; in XChat, Preferences > Chatting > General > uncheck Announce Away Messages; ask in #yourircclient if you have questions. If you continue to use public aways/backs you will be devoiced.
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21:18<sney>xchat is probably the most modern part of that factoid
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21:57<apteryx_>hello! which package providse this file? /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include
21:58<sney>probably gcc-10-dev or something like that
21:58<sney>,file /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include
21:58<judd>No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found with that file.
21:58<judd>Search for in bullseye/amd64: [truncated] gcc-10-aarch64-linux-gnu: usr/lib/gcc-cross/aarch64-linux-gnu/10/; gcc-10-m68k-linux-gnu: usr/lib/gcc-cross/m68k-linux-gnu/10/; gcc-9-arm-linux-gnueabi: usr/lib/gcc-cross/arm-linux-gnueabi/9/; gcc-10-mips64-linux-gnuabi64: usr/lib/gcc-cross/mips64-linux-gnuabi64/10/; gcc-9-i686-linux-gnu: usr/lib/gcc-cross/i686-linux-
21:58<judd>gnu/9/; gcc-10-arm-linux-gnueabihf: usr/lib/gcc-cross/arm-linux-gnueabihf/10/; gcc-10-mipsisa32r6el-linux-gnu: usr/lib/gcc-cross/mipsisa32r6el-linux-gnu/10/; gcc-9-arm-linux-gnueabihf: usr/lib/gcc-cross/arm-linux-gnueabihf/9/; gcc-10-mips64el-linux-gnuabi64: usr/lib/gcc-cross/mips64el-linux-gnuabi64/10/; gcc-9-hppa-linux-gnu: usr/lib/gcc-cross/hppa-linux- (2 more messages)
21:59<sney>yeesh, and we put them together
21:59<sney>,file /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include/
21:59<judd>No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found with that file.
21:59<sney>,file /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include/ --release sid
21:59<judd>No packages in sid/amd64 were found with that file.
21:59<apteryx_>do you have that file ony our system?
21:59<apteryx_>on your*
21:59<sney>yeah, that's where I got that filename
22:00<sney>aha, yeah it's libgcc-10-dev.
22:00<sney>,file /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include/cet.h
22:00<judd>Search for /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include/cet.h in bullseye/amd64: libgcc-10-dev: usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include/cet.h
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22:01<apteryx_>sney: OK, thank you :-)
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22:02<apteryx_>Is it normal/expected that when building kexec-tools for i686-linux such include directory would be provided to gcc?
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22:03<sney>maybe on an amd64 host?
22:04<apteryx_>e.g., from kexec-tools sources: ./bootstrap && CC=gcc-10 ./configure --build=i686-unknown-linux-gnu && make --> [...] gcc-10 -fno-zero-initialized-in-bss -Os -fno-builtin -ffreestanding -fno-zero-initialized-in-bss -fno-PIC -fno-PIE -fno-stack-protector -I./purgatory/include -I./purgatory/arch/i386/include -I./util_lib/include -I./include -Iinclude
22:04<apteryx_>-I/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/10/include -c -MD -o purgatory/arch/i386/crashdump_backup.o purgatory/arch/i386/crashdump_backup.c [...]
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22:06<sney>yeah, I would think that would say -I/usr/lib/gcc/i686-linux-gnu/10/include/ instead
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22:06<apteryx_>on guix, that's what it does, and the build fails :-)
22:07<sney>can't speak to guix obviously
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22:07<apteryx_>so I'm trying to figure out what's the correct thing to do
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22:07<mendel_munkis>what would cause a process to go into uninterruptible sleep (and CPU time hasn't increased in >12 hrs) other than a blocking syscall?
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22:07<sney>if you can reproduce the issue on a 32-bit debian (vm even), then it's a bug. otherwise it's some misconfiguration either from you or from guix
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22:08<apteryx_>OK! Good idea; I think I have a Debian 10 VM (32 bits) handy
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22:18<apteryx_>interesting; it worked there too: gcc -fno-zero-initialized-in-bss -Os -fno-builtin -ffreestanding -fno-zero-initialized-in-bss -fno-PIC -fno-PIE -fno-stack-protector -I./purgatory/include -I./purgatory/arch/i386/include -I./util_lib/include -I./include -Iinclude -I/usr/lib/gcc/i686-linux-gnu/8/include -c -MD -o purgatory/arch/i386/crashdump_backup.o
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22:27<apteryx_>I'll dig to find out, but at least the GCC invocation is the same, so it points to a misconfiguration in Guix; interesting (see: if you are curious about the build errors). Thanks!
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23:00<apteryx_>Someone suggested it may be due to binutils not being multiarch in Guix; is the default binutils multiarch (x86_64 + i686 for example) in Debian?
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23:13<lhvf>By following here: → < >, I can tell to tuxd3v, that if the `radeonsi` Module cannot be loaded at all, VA-API Acceleration Support cannot be started at all.. More details here: → < >.
23:16<lhvf>tuxd3v: Are you online right now?
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 08 00:00:38 2021