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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-11-13

---Logopened Sat Nov 13 00:00:01 2021
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00:47<jpw>I've got an issue downloading debian from https://www.debian.org/download. I'm not able to reproduce a valid checksum.
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00:47-!-arnold_oree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
00:48<mason>jpw: What image, for example?
00:48<jpw>one sec. details coming
00:50<jpw>never mind, i see the issue. they're sha512 checksums not sha256
00:50<mason>ah, kk, good
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02:19<tizef>hi guys ! I try to make a keybind in openbox file ''rc.xml'' as following ''W--'' and ''W-=''... but it doesn't work... I think the keys ''-'' and ''='' have another name in the keyboard mapping...
02:20<tizef>so I forgot how to identify keys, there is a way for that from terminal right?
02:20<at0m>xev
02:20<tizef>ha yes, thank you at0m
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02:33<awal1>tizef, i personally edit rc.xml when needed but there is a guy that can help you on that if you want to try it
02:33<awal1>lxhotkey-plugin-openbox
02:34<awal1>i have that ^ pkg but i personally haven't really used it. but it should be helpful...
02:34<awal1>,v lxhotkey-plugin-openbox
02:34<judd>Package: lxhotkey-plugin-openbox on amd64 -- stretch: 0.1.0-1; buster: 0.1.0-1+b1; bookworm: 0.1.1-1; bullseye: 0.1.1-1; sid: 0.1.1-1
02:35<awal1>i meant a gui :)
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02:37<awal1>hm, he left , lol
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02:43-!-Wulf is "Joern Heissler" on #debian
02:45<Wulf>Hello. I tried to setup automatic upgrades+reboots on Debian 11. But it looks like the kernel doesn't upgrade on its own: https://paste.debian.net/1219374/ What's missing?
02:46<Wulf>s/11/10/
02:50<Wulf>Never mind. I've got a backports kernel installed. Fixed.
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06:24<rajivmars>hi all! how to install virtualbox in debian 11?
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06:25<knghtbrd>rajivmars: virtualbox isn't included with Debian stable because Oracle is Oracle. 😞
06:26<knghtbrd>Ultimately, I switched to using qemu full-time because of that
06:26<rajivmars>knightbrd, so there is no way to install it in debian stable?
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06:33<knghtbrd>it CAN be installed, but not using Debian's package system
06:33<knghtbrd>I found it easier to convert virtualbox stuff to qemu like I said.
06:33<knghtbrd>There wasn't an advantage to me
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06:41<Unit193>I believe it's in fasttrack, though.
06:44<rajivmars>Unit193, yeah it is, but is it safe to install vb from fasttrack?
06:45<Unit193>Fasttrack was set up by some DDs, you'd have to see who all was involved, but I guess that's for you to decide? I believe it's the vbox maintainer that submitted it to fasttrack, though.
06:45<Unit193>rajivmars: Likely better than using the vbox repo? :)
06:46<rajivmars>Unit193, ok, i think i should better avoid using vb in debian:)
06:46<rajivmars>like Knightbrd said, going to try qemu.
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06:52<knghtbrd>The major thing was that vbox wasn't suited to stable as it was—Oracle has no interest in maintaining a stable, largely static version of the thing for a couple of years at a time.
06:53<knghtbrd>It might be better suited to fasttrack though
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06:59<rajivmars>knightbrd, how to install quemu? i have tried 'apt install qemu' but that did only install 1 packega of 70 kb.
06:59<rajivmars>qemu*
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06:59<knghtbrd>qemu is a suite of packages
07:00<rajivmars>package* sorry for spelling errors.
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07:00<rajivmars>knightbrd, what is the right command to install the full qemu suite?
07:01<rajivmars>or i have to search one by one?
07:02<knghtbrd>qemu-system
07:02<knghtbrd>you probably also want virt-manager
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07:02<knghtbrd>virt-manager is the GUI tool to create, run, and manage VMs
07:03<rajivmars>knightbrd, ok
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07:04<knghtbrd>qemu-system will install for other CPUs than i386/x86-64
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07:05<knghtbrd>I mean I dunno about you, but I don't need to emulate a Sparc or Alpha today.
07:05<knghtbrd>qemu will virtualize native CPU architecture, but emulate others.
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07:06<rajivmars>knightbrd, yeah i have to try it.
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07:12<knghtbrd>Well, as half my joints and some of the bones connecting them are screaming at me, I'm going to go take some medication and become generally horizontal with a book, wish you success rajivmars
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07:21<spawacz>How to install a crosscompiled kernel on an arm64 machine? Just copy the files to /boot and moduels to /lib and update symlinks?
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07:41<Tj>spawacz: and generate the initrd.img
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07:41<Tj>spawacz: and then update-grub
07:41<Tj>oh, unless it isn't using GRUB ? maybe coreboot?
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09:15<avallac_h>Hi! Can somebody explain me how to run a command when certain package updates. I want something like alpm-hooks from Arch's pacman <https://man.archlinux.org/man/alpm-hooks.5>. Does dpkg/apt has support such things?
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09:20<avallac_h>I know only about DPkg::Pre-Invoke and DPkg::Post-Invoke, but how this can be limited only for certain package?
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10:01<petn-randall>avallac_h: Can you be more specific? What package do you want something to happen when you upgrade, and what exactly?
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10:08<avallac_h>petn-randall: xkb-data. I want to patch some package files each time the package upgrades.
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10:34<avallac_h>This looks similar to what I want: <https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-linux-hook-a-script-command-to-apt-get-upgrade-command/>. However, this method has major disadvantage: script will be executed on every update, but I only want this to happen when xkb-data updates.
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10:53<ckosloff>stupid question: I downloaded debian-11.1.0-amd54-netinst.iso form debian .org and got the checksum as well, I forgot syntax to how to check integrity from command line, please help.
10:55<blast007>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s07.en.html
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10:56<ckosloff>blast007: I used sha256 and it did not match
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11:06<ckosloff>blast007: it did amtch, I was looking at 512 check sum, sorry
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11:11<spawacz>Tj: yeah it's uboot. But im picking up very fast
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11:33<tizef>okay I have fixed my openbox keybind... "W--" is actually "W-minus"... and "W-=" fall "W-equal"...
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11:38<scorpion2185[m]>My old notebook gets stuck
11:38<scorpion2185[m]>I upgraded it to 11 is bullseye fault?
11:40<scorpion2185[m]>the audio sounds in a loop of the last second. just rhythmbox can make it crash
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11:42<mason>scorpion2185[m]: I've seen something similar to that with overheating systems.
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11:44<scorpion2185[m]>I always check temperature cause if you leave the notebook normally placed the fan can't take air and it overheats
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11:56<avallac_h>scorpion2185[m]: this look like pulseaudio issue. Try plain alsa. Something like: pactl exit && mpv --ao=alsa ~/Music/test.mp3
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11:58<scorpion2185[m]>i was using only alsa, Openbox
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12:04<scorpion2185[m]>i also tried with pulse
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12:10<scorpion2185[m]>I use the rt kernel can it be that? fresh install ?
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12:20<avallac_h>scorpion2185[m]: You can install generic kernel, reboot and see what will happen.
12:21<scorpion2185[m]>On buster it rt was working, I was using Gnome then
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12:54<brokencycle>petn-randall: thank you for the idea - but I don't see where I could do that. I don't need to use the camera concurrently on both systems, just sometimes inside the VM, and sometimes outside of the VM
12:54<brokencycle>That can change several times a day - if there is something without requiring a restart of the VM, that would be great.
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13:01<ckosloff>I need to install bullseye in my desktop where all my critical info is, I have been 2 days at it with continuous failures, today I donwloaded the netinst.iso from debian.org, verified integrity with check sum, then burneda CS with K3B, because my damn computer doesn't boot from USB stick, simulated burn and verified written data, hittin error on step installing the base system:debootstrap failed, cannot continue, please help
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13:13<ckosloff>Where can i download the DVD image, since the rgular netinst is not working for me?
13:15<omegatron>https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/index.html
13:15<omegatron>your machine does not allow booting from usb? is it that old or somewhat exotic?
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13:17<avallac_h>ckosloff: Maybe you should try one of these: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
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13:27<ckosloff>availlac_h: already tried to no avail, it is basically the same file, thank you.
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13:29<ckosloff>avallac_h: I prefer to load old stable never had a problem with that one, where can I find a netinst for that one?
13:30<ckosloff>avallac_h: alresy tried with non-free firmware, same thing
13:30<ckosloff>avallac_h: maybe a DVD would work
13:31<r0b0>ckosloff, try switching virtual consoles (Alt+Fn) and see details of the error
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13:32<avallac_h>ckosloff: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/latest-oldstable/amd64/iso-cd/ ?
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13:50<scorpion2185[m]>it seems a a problem of the rt kernel
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14:14<ckosloff>r0b0: cannot do, there is no system
14:15<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, how does it fail?
14:15<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, what is the last thing that succeeded? can you switch to VT4 [alt+F4] and look for relevant log messages ?
14:16<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, OK. I may be away from my computer, but if it fails again, please stay at the failure, don't reboot or something, so that we can ask you questions, and you can look at things in the installer, OK?
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14:16<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, which step are you at in the installer, when you see this PAM question?
14:16<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, which installer image are you using? what is the filename you downloaded?
14:18<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: file:///home/ckosloff/Downloads/debian-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso
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14:19<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: step is select and install software
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14:20<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, are you at that step right now?
14:21<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: too many novelties untested in bulleye netinst, will try old stable and upgrade if needed
14:21<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: yes, I am there
14:22<alan92>will Buster get Firefox 91 ESR?
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14:22<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, change to VT4: type alt+F4, and you should see log messages.
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14:23<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: in fact the laptop I am using is on old stable, no crashes or errors
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14:25<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, ummm, is that a different laptop from the one with the problems?
14:25<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: Sqrt{not}he failed one is a desktop
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14:26<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I can see errors
14:26<ckosloff>but cannot copy
14:27<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, tell us one of those error messages
14:27<ckosloff>basically it says Menu item "pkgsel" failed, there were too many errors previous
14:28<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, can you go back to the installer on VT2 ?
14:29<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: got to Busy Box
14:29<Sqrt{not}>maybe VT1 ?
14:29<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: is that alt+F1?
14:30<Sqrt{not}>right
14:30<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I am back at the stop error
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14:31<Sqrt{not}>OK, you should have an option, maybe at the bottom, to go back?
14:32<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I do, I tried that several times already, OK, one more time
14:33<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: same error, tried again.
14:33<Ar|stote|is>I want to have X number of distributions on an encrypted lvm on luks on my laptop. I tried having an EFI partition as /boot and the rest as a luks device with lvm on top with 1 logical volume for each distro + 1 for shared data but I don't seem to be able to make it work. What would be the sanest way to achieve such a result ?
14:33<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, what did you do exactly ?
14:34<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: hit button to continue and went back to installer on that step, launched it and same error
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14:34<Ar|stote|is>In such a way that updating each distro wouldn't mess the others from booting
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14:35<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, let's check your disk. go back to VT2 (busybox) and run the command: df
14:35<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I am going nuts with this thing, I need it
14:35<mason>Ar|stote|is: Just verify efibootmgr output after you do anything that might mess with EFI boot variables. Or alternately push the functionality off to GRUB or something.
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14:38<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: done, I got a list of partitions, maybe I should try fsck from GRML
14:38<Sqrt{not}>no, slow down
14:39<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: difficult, I am vey anxious after 2 days of dealing with this
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14:39<espoles>Hi, could anyone help me please? I had installed Debian with Gnome as the desktop enviroment but I have changed to LXDE because my PC is old so I want to unistall Gnome if posible. Thanks
14:39<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, I want to know from your "df" output, if any partitions are full, or almost full
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14:42<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: all have lots of available space
14:42<Ar|stote|is>grub was my main problem, since installing grub from the second distro messed up grub from the first installation, and os-prober didn't work exactly as intended with encrypted rootfs. I felt that I should manually configure grub for each distribution and have lot's overhead.
14:42<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I make them with plenty of room
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14:45<plaur>espoles: uninstalling gnome completely is difficult, you have to track the installed packages and their recommends. it's probably less work to install again with LXDE
14:46<Ar|stote|is>mason: I thought I could use the unencrypted EFI partition on all distributions I want to have and somehow use a subfolder for each distro so that updating kernel on one would update initramfs and images on that specific subfolder without messing with the rest
14:46<mason>Ar|stote|is: Yeah, you can do that.
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14:46<plaur>espoles: ...but LXDE is no longer developed, the devs moved on to LXQt - chossing something other than LXDE would be more future-proof
14:47<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, I must go to an appointment in 3 minutes. Others here may be willing to help you. What things are you selecting in tasksel ? is it a lot of options? can you try installing a smaller number of options to see if it works better?
14:47<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, also, can you try switching to VT4, and watching the log, to see exactly what is going wrong?
14:48<Sqrt{not}>I mean, launch the tasksel, and immediately go to VT4, and try to watch what it is saying to you
14:48<Sqrt{not}>OK, I am out of here for about 90 minutes, good luck. others here will help you.
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14:49<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: this come befoe taksel, when I do reach it I select the bare minimum
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14:52<Sqrt{not}>you said step is select and install software... that is tasksel
14:52<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: eror processing package python3-uno, dependency problems, I cannot take this any more, going to old stable, this installer is not woking right
14:52<ckosloff>working, not woking
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15:04<Ar|stote|is>mason: could you direct me to a wiki page or manual pages to check on how to tell debian to put built kernels to a specific place and have it decrypt the actual block device with root filesystem? i have seen that by default netinstall creates both a boot partition and an esp. if i have only the esp do i mount it to /boot or /boot/efi? are there any disadvantages in doing it that way? if i'm bothering you or the questions are mostly
15:04<Ar|stote|is>subjective instead of teachnical please say so.
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15:05<mason>Ar|stote|is: Ah, hm. I'm not sure if there's a way to do that. When I've done it, mostly to use the kernel stub loader, I've just scripted up something to copy the kernel(s) I want by hand.
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15:06<Ar|stote|is>i thought it would be a hook on some mkinitcpio.conf.d or something
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15:07<mason>Ar|stote|is: Might be something. Unsure, as scripting it is pretty easy, and then I have my source living on something more reliable than vfat.
15:07<mason>Ar|stote|is: Note that if you get into this stuff - the stub loader, say - you can pass command line arguments to the kernel using your boot variables. Example: https://bpa.st/R62Q
15:08<Ar|stote|is>I tried installing debian first with separate boot, esp but after I installed arch on another logical volume I lost the way to boot into debian
15:08<mason>Ar|stote|is: So, given that I like mirroring everything, I'd have that on one disk, debian1 on another, and assuming by UEFI software can cope, I'll have a pair like that and a pair loading an .old kernel and initramfs for falling back.
15:09<mason>Ar|stote|is: That's the risk. There are a fair number of moving parts and different ways to do it. Plus side, you'll learn about all of it and be able to fix it all when it breaks.
15:10<mason>Ar|stote|is: Just keep in mind the notion that your boot variables dictate where you try to load things, and those things needs to have some inherent notion of where /boot and / is for each, respectively.
15:10<mason>And your initramfs needs to agree, etc etc
15:10<Ar|stote|is>i am unsure of when to start. eg debian netinstall on lvm on luks makes 2 unencrypted partitions, esp, boot and the luks
15:11<Ar|stote|is>when i want to install the second distro eg arch it mounts esp as /boot and not /boot/efi
15:11<mason>That sounds reasonable. I think GRUB can cope with LUKS itself in some forms, but I've never tried to figure out what it needs or what its limitations are. Unencrypted /boot is common as a result.
15:11<Ar|stote|is>and then things go wrong. I try to mount each respective partition as with debian but grub (messed things up)
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15:13<grump-e>yo ho ho. pretty confused fellow here. simply put, i have a laptop here... i am trying to put debian on it. currently windows (10?)
15:13<Ar|stote|is>should i install grub on each, or skip bootloaders altogether other than the first install? lot's of questions
15:13<grump-e>it looks like the hard-drive was already partitioned... there is an empty 250gb
15:14<grump-e>is there a str8forward way i can make that partition bootable and put debian on it (without any access to external media?)
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15:14<grump-e>i downloaded the live boot cd... but i don't know so much how to run it from windows
15:14<grump-e>i have some blank CDroms, but no blank DVDs
15:14<grump-e>looks like OS need DVDs these days
15:15<grump-e>on top of that, i don't have any thumbdrives available... any!!!
15:15<grump-e>so i am curious if i have any options. any help appreciated. any angry please send to /dev/null :)
15:16<mason>Ar|stote|is: If you're going to use GRUB you can probably just have one GRUB that knows about all the systems.
15:16<grump-e>been a while since i installed any of these things and it is much more painful that i expected trying to get the crust off my brain!
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15:16<Ar|stote|is>i believe my error is not where to find the rootfs
15:16<grump-e>ideally, i would like to currently keep the windows partition that is on here and dual boot because there is still some files i need to back up here
15:17<mason>Ar|stote|is: That said, if you stuff kernel and initramfs into your ESP, you can have each system live self-contained in its own whatever-on-LUKS.
15:17<Ar|stote|is>i mean grub-mkconfig does in fact recognize the other distribution, it doesn't ask for a passphrase to decrypt that device and load the kernel
15:17<Ar|stote|is>it just hangs while waiting for the device to appear /dev/mapper/xxx
15:18<Ar|stote|is>that is why i believe that the problem lies on the initrd image that is placed on /boot that is supposed to tell start from grub and then ask for a passphrase
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15:20<Ar|stote|is>grub with one distro ask for the passphrase after i select an option, on the second distribution it doesn't which from the reading i've done leads me to believe that the /boot images are either not created at all since i don't install a bootloader or since the /boot is on the same fs as root it doesn't have the hooks to decrypt the rootfs.
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15:24<Ar|stote|is>and i am not sure of the naming of each distro kernels so that if two of them name their current kernel as vllinuz and initrd.img won't it mess things?
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15:26<mason>Ar|stote|is: Yeah, if you have GRUB drive LUKS you'll want to read some source or find a reasonable resource. Your initramfs will be per-system and will need to capture the relevant LUKS data in crypttab(5)
15:26<Ar|stote|is>mason do you run zfs?
15:27<mason>Ar|stote|is: Everywhere, yes.
15:28<mason>Ar|stote|is: For Debian and Debian-based systems, I pull packages from a local repository, as I really dislike DKMS.
15:28<Ar|stote|is>someone suggested that i run zfs with zfsboot to achieve what I wanted but I thought it would be way more complicated
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15:29<mason>Oh, that's a neat idea actually. Yes.
15:30<Ar|stote|is>since i don't know how zfsbootmenu works, would that work?
15:30<mason>Ar|stote|is: I've not used ZFS Boot Manager that way myself, but I believe it's a thing people do with it.
15:30<mason>s/Manager/Menu/
15:30<mason>https://zfsbootmenu.org/
15:30<mason>And there's #zfsbootmenu on Libera for support.
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15:35<Ar|stote|is>if i read correctly zfs will know if data has been corrupted and inform you?
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15:36<Ar|stote|is>does photorec, testdisk work on that ? are there other recovery tools for that fs?
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15:38<Ar|stote|is>and i guess an added bonus of zfs would be that i can try bsds too
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15:41<Ar|stote|is>mason: thanks for all the information you've shared. hopefully I can make this laptop work as I want it, otherwise if it gives me headaches for quite some time more i will just install debian testing and be done with it. One last question any resources on installing debian with zfs encrypted?
15:41<mason>Ar|stote|is: Whenever it reads something it compares checksums, and there's also an explicit scrub operation that checks all the on-disk data, useful in case something wouldn't otherwise be read for a time. And yes, FreeBSD uses essentially the same software. NetBSD isn't quite caught up but it offers a somewhat older ZFS.
15:41<Ar|stote|is>i will google it but since you use it already maybe you have something in mind
15:42<mason>Ar|stote|is: There aren't external integrity-checking tools, at least that I'm aware of. Have proper redundancy, scrub on a schedule, and have back-ups, and you're generally good.
15:42<Ar|stote|is>advantages/disadvantages on using efi/legacy bios with zfs or is it the same thing?
15:42<mason>Irrelevant, honestly.
15:45<Ar|stote|is>mostly data recovery. on some occasions i have formatted drives instead of usb flash and i could run testdisk and write the partition scheme again and everything was accessible again. is there such a thing ? if i accidentaly remove a folder, can i run some data recovery software to maybe/hopefully get that back?
15:46<Ar|stote|is>and lastly swap on the zfs pool ?
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15:47<mason>Ar|stote|is: Swap on ZFS is possible but there are some corner cases lingering for years. This box I'm on now does it but I don't set up new boxes that way.
15:49<Ar|stote|is>i read something that hibernation doesn't work reliably, but i don't use it. i use suspend rarely (since this is a laptop)
15:49<mason>Ar|stote|is: If you accidentally remove a folder, if you snapshot on a schedule you can retrieve it. I wouldn't recommend on planning on data recovery otherwise generally. Incremental back-ups are easy enough that it's worth doing them.
15:49<mason>Mm, dunno. I run it on laptops but I don't hibernate.
15:49<mason>I either shut down or just sleep.
15:49<Ar|stote|is>i just wanted swap only to avoid oof situations with my 5 firefox windows and billions tabs. mostly with low swappiness so it won't be used
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15:50<Ar|stote|is>does snapshotting have a negative effect on the system speed? or maybe that applies to other filesystems?
15:51<mason>no
15:51<mason>It's ~free
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15:58<Ar|stote|is>any reading material on installing debian with zfs encrypted?
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16:01<Ar|stote|is>does that scrubing affect ssd lifespan? should i use fstrim on cron? does it use TRIM itself on supported hardware ?
16:01<jpw>Ar|stote|is: yes snapshotting can tak disk performance
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16:01<jpw>s/tak/tank/g
16:01<mason>Ar|stote|is: The way I do it is with an installer I wrote. Essentially I set up the disks via a live image and use debootstrap and some tweaking to install.
16:01<mason>jpw: Snapshotting in ZFS generally won't. It's a COW filesystem.
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16:02<jpw>zfs can tank performance tbh
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16:03<Ar|stote|is>what is the thing that tanks performance? can it be avoided?
16:03<mason>Sure, anything can be misconfigured if you don't know what you're doing. That's why we're here to help.
16:03<Ar|stote|is>snapshots are saved on the same pool if enough space is available and you can scp it elsewhere or it has to go elsewhere?
16:03<jpw>Ar|stote|is: especially deduplication
16:04<mason>Ar|stote|is: Snapshots are points in time and have no further impact. They let you distinguish between things before and after that point in time.
16:05<mason>Ar|stote|is: Anyway, #zfsonlinux is probably a better venue for ZFS specifics.
16:05<mason>or #openzfs or #zfs, all on Libera
16:05<jpw>Ar|stote|is: for fstrim, there is a systemd timer that runs by default once per week `systemctl status fstrim.timer`
16:05<jpw>i.e. don't run it on a cron
16:06<Ar|stote|is>my way of deduplicating things is checking with find for same sizes/names and then checking checksums
16:06<mason>Ar|stote|is: Note that if you don't care to use systemd, the ZFS stuff all runs like clockwork under sysvinit on Debian as well.
16:08<Ar|stote|is>well i wanted the debian install to have something that works as do all my computers. and i wanted the other distributions for testing them and DEs. So that I want to leave debian as stock as possible in order to have at least an OS to boot and troubleshoot when I may break others
16:08<mason>Ar|stote|is: Sure, that's fine too.
16:09<jpw>Ar|stote|is: don't bother with zfs then. it's non-free and most definetly not 'stock'
16:09<Ar|stote|is>i could if i manage to make it happen, have another zfs partition or how they are called and have debian without systemd to test stuff out.
16:10<mason>Ar|stote|is: Ignore the troll. Copyleft licenses are generally considered "free".
16:10<Ar|stote|is>i was considering it because it may make what i want to achieve with my laptop easier or possible
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16:11<mason>Ar|stote|is: Try it all. The more different configurations you explore, the more you know, and you can decide what you like based on your own experiences.
16:11<jpw>not trolling it's true
16:11<mason> /ignore *!*@cpc146708-rdng28-2-0-cust213.15-3.cable.virginm.net
16:12<Ar|stote|is>jpw: i want to have X number of distros on one disk on my laptop with encrypted roots. (boot can be unencrypted) and updating one shouldn't mess up the others from booting, so that i can distros/DEs/OSs etc. Do you have another suggestion instead of that ZFS one we were talking about ?
16:19<jpw>zfs is great and i'd encourage using it; however... using it on your root partition is problematic due to the modules existing in the contrib repo and not available by default. i've see zfs on / get realllly messy. this may be different in other distro's that have better support for it.
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16:23<Ar|stote|is>would you recommend something else for achieving that end result jpw?
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16:31<Ar|stote|is>thanks mason will try that and hopefully won't bug you again :D
16:31<jpw>LVM with luks encrypted containers is a safe choice
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16:31<Ar|stote|is>that is what i was trying up till now but i never managed to make the second distribution work along with the first
16:31<Ar|stote|is>one of them stayed unbootable
16:31<mason>Ar|stote|is: Oh, feel free. There are just countless variations, and it's somewhat up to your whim which you pursue.
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18:39<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, Do I remember right: didn't we work through some problems installing debian on a Toshiba Satellite many months ago?
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18:43<knghtbrd>LVM with LUKS containers is a safe choice until you want to install to a volume on an existing encrypted LVM.
18:43<knghtbrd>creating a new one, that's easy and quite safe.
18:48<tuxd3v>hi, somebody stole my horse..
18:48<tuxd3v>does any one here saw my horse around?
18:48<mason>tuxd3v: It's out behind the barn.
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18:49<tuxd3v>mason, many thanks, I will look there
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19:04<ckosloff>I am going nuts over trying to install Debian in a deskop, tried the bullseye netinst and it did not wrk,then I tried old stable which did work, but failed at the end when installing the boot loader, so it does not boot from hard disk, how can I get past this error?
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19:24<GrayDolf>ayo?
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19:34<GrayDolf>Ah, there we go, had to go identify myself.
19:34<GrayDolf>Why don't they do this automatically?
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19:37<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, can you tell us more detail about "failed at the end when installing the boot loader" ?
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20:27<antartic>hi
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20:28<Sqrt{not}>oy
20:28<antartic>im trying to connect to an ssh port, but i dont have the username
20:29<antartic>it shows off that ssh couldnt resolve the hostname
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20:31<antartic>tl:dr I want to connect with ssh 192.0.0.1:22 and not ssh user@192.0.0.1:22
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20:35<Sqrt{not}>antartic, it is not required to put the username in the destination. I don't think the ":22" is legal syntax anyway. what OS version are you working from ?
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20:35<antartic>5.10.0
20:36<antartic>deb
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20:36<antartic>i managed to trobleshoot
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20:36<antartic>and now it throws me off with Permission denied (publickey).
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20:37<Sqrt{not}>kernel version could be bullseye (debian 11) or buster backports (debian 10). why don't you show the exact command you are trying, and the exact error message you get?
20:39<antartic>uname -r 5.10.0-8-amd64
20:39<antartic>the command that im doing now with ssh is
20:39<antartic>ssh url
20:39<antartic>instead of ip
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20:40<Sqrt{not}>antartic, don't be difficult. what is the exact command you are trying.
20:41<antartic>ssh name.name.org
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20:41<Sqrt{not}>OK (that is not any kind of url, by the way)
20:41<antartic>ssh minecraft.smalldatacenter.org
20:41<antartic>enjoy
20:42<antartic>thats the url
20:42<antartic>basically idk the hash
20:42<antartic>or the pass
20:43<Sqrt{not}>does your user have a keypair for that login? Is the error message from your local machine, or from the remote?
20:44<antartic>no, i have nothing
20:44<antartic>and the server is remote, the request is sent by the tor network
20:44<antartic>*with
20:45<antartic>i think that they havent blacklisted tor
20:45<Sqrt{not}>do you have an account on that machine? a password, or keypair?
20:45<antartic>nothing
20:45<antartic>im working from the floor
20:45<Sqrt{not}>that is probably why you cannot login then. why do you think you could login with no password and no key?
20:46<antartic>because it could be missconfigured
20:46<Sqrt{not}>so you are scanning it, hoping to break in?
20:46<antartic>;)
20:47<Sqrt{not}>you will not get support for such things here. please find some other channel for criminal advice.
20:47<antartic>basically im pentesting it, the owner told me t do that
20:47<antartic>he is a friend of mine, and didnt told me the keys
20:47<antartic>and he is running a minecraft server
20:48<Sqrt{not}>this is not the right place. you sound like a very inexperienced pen tester anyway, if you don't even know how ssh works. no help from us here.
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20:49<antartic>yeah im starting
20:50<Sqrt{not}>start with something more acceptable and mainstream, until you have some idea how any of this works.
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20:51<Sqrt{not}>(and "minecraft.smalldatacenter.org" is still not a "url"
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20:52<antartic>tell me a nice place were to start please
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20:57<mooff>antartic: run "man ssh"
20:57<mooff>press / then type "port"
20:57<mooff>press enter.
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20:57<mooff>repeat: [press n and look where it takes you] until you find what you're looking for
20:58<antartic>i didnt knew that utility of /
20:58<antartic>thx
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20:59<antartic>but i basically know that -p specifies port
20:59<antartic>but thx
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21:00<mooff>> and now it throws me off with Permission denied (publickey).
21:00<mooff>if you see this, without it asking for a password, the server is configured not to allow password auth
21:01<antartic>so i need to have a hash configured there
21:02<mooff>if it isn't your server, the chance of you hacking it via ssh is almost zero
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21:02<antartic>i dont want to go with rat
21:03<antartic>or anything that the admin has to install
21:03<antartic>i want to do it without any SE
21:03<antartic>so im pretty much lost
21:04<GrayDolf>Yep.
21:04<Sqrt{not}>antartic, I think the technical term is "way over your head" you need to learn basics.
21:04<mooff>^
21:04<antartic>yeah xd
21:05<Sqrt{not}>and learn some ethics as part of your basics.
21:05<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I installed old stable without any desktop, at least computer works, now I have the log road to customization
21:05<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, OK, good job, that sounds better :)
21:06<GrayDolf>Yeah, we don't hack into other people's servers "for funzies" or whatever
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21:06<antartic>just to learn
21:07<antartic>GrayDolf:
21:07<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, you can install the same meta-packages into your new system, same as in the tasksel part of the installer.
21:08<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I loaded synaptic now I have some tweaks to do, in fstab and others
21:08<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: from synaptic?
21:08<Sqrt{not}>for example: apt install task-gnome-desktop
21:08<Sqrt{not}>probably, yes, look for that package name task-gnome-desktop
21:09<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: waht would be the syntax for KDE Plasma?
21:09<Sqrt{not}>but if you have synaptic, don't you already have some graphical environment?
21:09<GrayDolf>antartic: Well, if it were a learning sitch, they would ask you to pen-test their server. Besides, SSH is literally named Secure SHell for a reason
21:09<mooff>antartic: try to find relevant channels on libera.chat .. you could find a tribe there
21:10<mooff>antartic: you probably want to get lost in hackthebox.com
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21:10<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: very limited, and synaptic does not work well because GUI started in wayland, how do I get out of wayland?
21:10<Sqrt{not}>kde-plasma-desktop
21:11<Sqrt{not}>how did you get into wayland? are you in gnome?
21:12<GrayDolf>Yeah, what type-a Desktop Experience you using? (Pls say KDE)
21:12<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: I did not selevt gnome or any other desktop, I just think it is default
21:12<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: KDE
21:13<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: because evolution is loaded
21:13<Sqrt{not}>that sounds like gnome, i think evolution is made by the gnome folks
21:14<antartic>mooff: any good channel name there?
21:14<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: default install
21:14<GrayDolf>Yeah, I have Evolution (mostly cuz KMail won't be compiled for arm anytime soon)
21:15<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: just to boot computer into something
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21:16<antartic>im about to flash all, so thanks to all who helped me
21:16<GrayDolf>Cya, have a great day
21:17<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, you should have a little choice. when you login to gnome or if you start another gdm3 (by typing ctrl-alt-F1) you can click just to the left of the password entry box, and get a choice of different graphics environments, some with wayland, and some witn X11
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21:17<antartic>cya
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21:19<ckosloff>Sqrt{not}: under wayland synaptic cannot start with privileges to install, but I can still become root and install whatever
21:19<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, yah, I don't use synaptic. you can just say: sudo apt install kde-plasma-desktop or what ever package you want.
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21:20<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, I also like "sudo aptitude" which is a text-based interactive package manager.
21:21<mooff>(fwiw, i think 'just to the left of the password box' has moved to a cog in the bottom right of the screen while you're on the password box)
21:21<ckosloff>form my working computer there is package task-kde-desktop, will install as root, than one installs plasma, then I will purge the gnome shite.
21:22<mooff>shite!!!
21:23<GrayDolf>language
21:23<mooff>there there, gnome, don't let the nasty kde user hurt you
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21:24<Sqrt{not}>(or sometimes just to the left of the "unlock" button)
21:25<mooff>they have options and features but we have hubris and that's good enough, okay
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21:26<mooff>(i accidentally a control code)
21:26<LCRERGO>Hi I've wanted to know how can I discuss a change to apt?
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21:27<GrayDolf>For me, its right next to the "Log In" key.
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21:29<GrayDolf>Speaking of DEs, how do I purge any mention of LXDE (RPi PIXEL if you wanna get techical) out of my Environment Chooser?
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21:31<mooff>GrayDolf: the list comes from /usr/share/xsessions/ and /usr/share/wayland-sessions/
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21:32<GrayDolf>thx, opening up Dolphin right now
21:32<mooff>if you want to uninstall it rather than just hack it from the list, that's different, though
21:33<GrayDolf>nah, cuz I already have LXPanel uninstalled
21:33<GrayDolf>still shows up tho
21:34<mooff>lxpanel will only be one part of LXDE
21:35<mooff>try: apt remove lxsession
21:35<mooff>apt remove task-lxde-desktop
21:37<GrayDolf>I knew it! It was hiding around somewhere!
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21:38<GrayDolf>XSession was still installed, not the whole task
21:39<GrayDolf>LXSession
21:41<GrayDolf>and thus, LXDE was wiped away from his computer.
21:42<GrayDolf>and KDE Plasma prevailed to be the victor
21:42<ckosloff> Sqrt{not}I am not yet in the sudoers group, just beginning customization, I still have to access my data which are on another drive on same computer.
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21:45<ckosloff>GrayDolf: kudos for KDE, since my old days at aptosid I have been using it and very satisfied
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22:01<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, easiest method: as root do: adduser ckosloff sudo (the sudo group, not sudoers)
22:02<Sqrt{not}>ckosloff, then next time you login, you will have that group (but not for any user already logged in when root does the adduser command)
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22:09-!-trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian
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22:11-!-wwallace is "Wwilliam" on #kanotix #debian
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22:16-!-victorsouza is "Victor Souza" on #debian
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22:20-!-wwallace is "Wwilliam" on #debian
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22:30-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian #packaging
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23:09<trevorandkath>the best browser for vmware player
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23:12-!-pavlushka is "Pavel Sayekat" on #debian #oftc
23:12<panzeroceania>Hi everyone. I am attempting to boot a usb drive on a device over a serial console
23:13<panzeroceania>I am connected via serial console, and can see the system come up, I can bring up the boot menu, and I see my boot media
23:13<panzeroceania>but when I select the boot media, it gets stuck, and does not boot the media
23:13-!-Tuthotep [~Tuthotep@218.red-79-145-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
23:13-!-Tuthotep is "realname" on #debian #oftc #moocows @#voip-guifinet
23:13<panzeroceania>does anyone have any tips?
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23:37<Dresden>Any idea what generated these columns:
23:37<Dresden>COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
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23:38-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
23:38<Dresden>These are in a file named [process name]-PID - I can't remember how I made them, FD is useful like "CWD", "MEM", FIFO" and that all kinds of helpful info
23:40-!-arnold_oree [~arnoldore@38.183.93.209.dyn.plus.net] has joined #debian
23:40-!-arnold_oree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
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23:49<troethe>Would you say it is generally save to use the raspi-firmware package of testing when I am still on stable? Or do you think this will create problems because of the different kernel versions?
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23:51-!-sparky4 is "INSTALL WINDOWS MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" on #debian #debian-next #Daikatana
23:53-!-rany_ [~quassel@ppp-02-117.cyberia.net.lb] has joined #debian
23:53-!-rany_ is "rany,,," on #quetzalcoatl-relays #tor #debian-next #tor-relays #debian
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23:57-!-stylesen_ is "stylesen" on #debian #debian-india
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23:58-!-CryptoSiD is "SiD" on #debian
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23:58-!-rany__ is "rany,,," on #quetzalcoatl-relays #tor #debian-next #tor-relays #debian
---Logclosed Sun Nov 14 00:00:02 2021