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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-11-29

---Logopened Mon Nov 29 00:00:23 2021
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01:51<r4fkramer>Hi all. Please, a doubt: suppose I deleted the fat32 partition from a usb stick and left the debian installation storage just as 'unallocated'.
01:51<r4fkramer>Then I proceed with partitioning by the debian installer where I create the primary partition (ext4 fs) and the logical partition (swap) for the new debian installation (which is what I'm doing now - 'select and install software' phase, 76% already done and running fine, but slowly).
01:51<r4fkramer>Will there be any problems later in the OS after the installation is finished?
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01:51<grawity>wait, are you repartitioning the very same usb stick that the installer was running from?
01:56<r4fkramer>grawity, I don't know if I understood you correctly. But, I just used debian installer resource to go ahead with partitioning - I deleted fat32 partition before. So, debian installer made both primary and logical partitions without a previous fat32 partition.
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01:56<r4fkramer>Did you understand the procedure I applied here ? Debian installer is going on - now in 77 %
01:57<r4fkramer>But It's going very slowly. I'm not so sure if I did the right thing. And I don't know if installation is going to be ended fine withou any issue.
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01:58<r4fkramer>Currently, it's going on. Apparently, it's all going fine. But, please, what do you think about it ?
01:59<twb>r4fkramer: switch to vt4 and look at the raw install log
01:59<twb>r4fkramer: that's alt+F4 or possibly Ctrl+A 4, depending on how you're running the installer
02:00<twb>(F1 gets you back to the original screen)
02:02<r4fkramer>twb Please, I never did it before. No risk of I interrupt the installation process using this procedure now?
02:02<r4fkramer>Is it absolutely safe to do this?
02:02<twb>r4fkramer: switching windows is safe
02:02<grawity>in the "graphical" installer, I think you'd need CTRL+alt+f4
02:03<twb>Most likely it is slow because dpkg calls sync() a lot, and your USB key is slow and shit compared to a "real" hard disk
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02:03<twb>In my experience it is much faster (maybe 30 times faster) to do the install in RAM, then copy it to the USB key all at once
02:04<twb>(However this requires some specialist knowledge)
02:04<r4fkramer>Agree. it's really a shit. Ok twb and grawity, I believe in you. I'll do it now - laptop is on the other room, please, just one moment.
02:05<twb>even if you totally fuck up, the worst case is you have wasted an hour
02:05<twb>you haven't lost any data
02:05<twb>it hasn't irradiated your grandma with a lethal dose of x-rays instead of beta rays
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02:06<r4fkramer>no, it's running about 4 hours or more and hasn't finished yet.
02:06<twb>ouch
02:06<twb>Are both the USB key and the USB socket 3.x (blue tongue)?
02:06<r4fkramer>Yes, now you can laugh - it's really a shit
02:06<twb>Don't unplug it to check
02:07<twb>USB 3.0 is 480M bit/s theoretical maximum. USB 2 is only 48M bit/s theoretical maximum.
02:07<r4fkramer>2.x - usb 2.0
02:07<twb>If you have money, get better hardware :-)
02:07<r4fkramer>It's an old laptop, from 2014
02:08<twb>2014 hardware often has some USB 2 and some USB 3, so check if any ports are blue
02:08<r4fkramer>Sure, I could send you some money and you buy it for me, lol
02:08<grawity>USB 2 is 480 Mbits, so ~48 MB/s
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02:08<twb>grawity: ah I must be off by 1
02:08<grawity>USB 3.0 is 5 Gbps, I think?
02:09<r4fkramer>here is land of nothing - laptops from 1967 continue being used around here.
02:09<twb>r4fkramer: wow
02:09<twb>r4fkramer: I am impressed you had laptops in 1967
02:09<r4fkramer>yes, really an absurd
02:10<grawity>(but tbh, USB 2.0 is quite enough for installing an OS *from* USB stick, so it really might be dpkg's excessive sync that makes writes slow...)
02:10<twb>are they not installing *onto* a USB key?
02:10<r4fkramer>Fine grawity
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02:13<r4fkramer>twb, I'm just installing bullseye 11.1 directly to a usb stick 32 GB - I did the same procedure before in a 8 GB usb stick - a complete debian OS with MATE DE, Web Server services, audacity, audacious, hexchat, libreoffice etc
02:14<twb>r4fkramer: OK
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02:17<r4fkramer>twb, it's in the grub install phase now - some minutes ago, it was about 89% (select and install software)
02:19<r4fkramer>I was going to use alt+F4 or possibly Ctrl+A 4 procedures like you suggested me. But then you said: 'even if you totally fuck up, the worst case is you have wasted an hour'
02:19<r4fkramer>So I stopped
02:20<r4fkramer>For, it's about more or less 5 hours, or even more than it, this installation, which is now almost being finished.
02:22<illwieckz>debian on usb stick is great, as soon as the usb stick is good, some usb3 sticks are even slower (and unusable) than some usb2 one (perfectly usable)
02:22<illwieckz>for example the usb2 sandisk cruzerfit is very ok
02:22<illwieckz>I've run routers and servers for year on it
02:22<illwieckz>the usb3 variant (sandisk ultra fit) is also very good, but produces lot more heat and haven't proofed them in the long run
02:23<illwieckz>some usb stick are just totally unusable to run a distro on, even if usb3
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02:23<grawity>the kingston 32GB stick I got barely two years ago already takes ~5s just to save a .txt file :(
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02:23<illwieckz>yeah
02:24<illwieckz>maybe we talk about the same
02:24<illwieckz>Kingston DT100G3
02:24<illwieckz>sold as usb3
02:24<illwieckz>just a scam
02:24<illwieckz>slower than usb2 at write
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02:25<illwieckz>does not handle concurrent write properly
02:25<illwieckz>etc
02:25<illwieckz>booting an operating system from it would just make the linux kernel timeout itself
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02:26<r4fkramer>Fine illwieckz, in this case, it's this model but 32GB: https://www.amazon.com.br/Armazenamento-Drive-Twist-Multilaser-Preto/dp/B084G85QW7/ref=asc_df_B084G85QW7/?tag=googleshopp00-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=379765314131&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13189682048102867029&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1001767&hvtargid=pla-1426963495589&psc=1
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02:27<r4fkramer>One of the worst usb stick brands I've ever seen.
02:27<r4fkramer>The other is a Kingstom and runs very well indeed.
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02:27<grawity>lol yeah it's the same 100G3
02:28<illwieckz>the 100G3 was cheap, so many people probably just bought them
02:28<r4fkramer>A complete Debian installation with DE and basic applications installed in a 8 GB usb stick - I think it's fantastic ! lol
02:28<illwieckz>easy to find
02:28<illwieckz>just a scam
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02:29<illwieckz>I just don't get Kingston because sometime they do good products, and sometime don't
02:30<illwieckz>this usb key for example
02:30<illwieckz>but I also remember an SSD from Kingston that was slower than HDD
02:30<grawity>could be worse though, some 10 years ago had a (also Kingston!) USB stick that had two firmware-level partitions out of the box, with some 100 MB (out of 2 GB back then) allocated to promo PDFs
02:30<illwieckz>on the other hand I have some kingston stuff like ram or other components without problems
02:31<illwieckz>haha
02:31<grawity>had to google around for a OEM flash reprogramming thing to undo that
02:31<illwieckz>XD
02:31<r4fkramer>I have a Niponnic (or Nipponic, I don't remember how to write it) here - 8 gb size with debian
02:32<illwieckz>so, I don't know what happens with Kingston
02:32<illwieckz>maybe that's related to the kind of products
02:33<illwieckz>like: drive, no; ram, ok
02:34<r4fkramer>how about these 2TB USB sticks..are they reliable ? I saw some HP models some months ago through internet announces....
02:34<illwieckz>no idea…
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02:36<grawity>speaking of, since Samsung SSDs tend to be good, are their USB sticks also good?
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02:37<r4fkramer>https://www.amazon.com/2000GB-Waterproof-Memory-Keychain-Silver/dp/B09H62G3WT/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=usb+stick+HP+-+2+TB&link_code=qs&qid=1638171328&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-4
02:43<r4fkramer>twb and grawity: installation is complete now - it has finished successfully. Apparently, it was everything fine till the end - at least for this first boot. Thank you for attention and Great Support !
02:43<r4fkramer>Thank you for information you gave me about usb sticks, illwieckz :)
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03:12<jim>is there a channel about gnome under debian?
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03:14<tarzeau>jim: #debian-gnome
03:15<jim>there's a name I haven't seen in years
03:15<jim>and, thanks :)
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03:26<twb>grawity: I mostly use sandisk ultrafit these days because of their shape
03:26<twb>before that I used verbatim tuff n tiny
03:26<twb>I haven't had any ultrafits fail yet, but I switched <5 years ago
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03:29<twb>My main use case for USB keys is as a cheap DOM for EFI ESP, because 1) EFI doesn't support RAID1; 2) ZFS auto-replacement means ZFS needs to own the whole disk, and it doesn't support sharing it with an ESP in that case yet
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03:59<hudo>I upgraded from buster to bullseye, use tigervncserver and on the clientside ( windows 10 ) ultravnc. Problem is that copy and paste does not work. Before upgrade it worked. Any ideas ?
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04:09<renshan>hi
04:10<renshan>you ren ma
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04:50<roc>hello
04:52<roc>My network card uses DHCP, but the packet loss rate is more than 80%.
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04:54<selckin>push the cable all the way in
04:55<roc>The network card is normal. I verified that the network card is OK under windows and turned off IPv6 on bullseye
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04:58<roc>Gnome will get stuck after sleep arousal. Does anyone encounter this situation
04:58<roc> /msg dpkg bullseye
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05:23<twb>selckin: reasonable guess. I would check for broadcast storms due to a cycle and no STP. I would then check whether it negotiated 1000BASE-T or only 100M (because some pins are cactus).
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07:30<umlaeute>is there a way to find out which Debian release shipped a specific package version?
07:32<petn-randall>umlaeute: https://packages.debian.org will tell you.
07:35<menace>hey, i generated with aptly and with reprepro repositories, is there another tool which tests repositories (via http or via file system) by their validity?
07:35<menace>like, only checking, not being able to install?
07:35<menace>like lintian for repositories?
07:39<petn-randall>menace: I guess you could use apt for it, I'm not aware of any linting tools that do that.
07:39<petn-randall>menace: Both tools might have unit tests in their source code, which will likely do such tests, you could use that as a base for building your test framework.
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07:50<umlaeute>petn-randall: thanks, but unfortunately not.
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07:51<umlaeute>i'm interested in the version in some pre-oldoldstable release.
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07:53<petn-randall>umlaeute: If you need ancient versions, they're archived here: https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
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07:56<umlaeute>petn-randall: thanks. but i was looking for something where i wouldn't have to parse the Packages myself.
07:57<umlaeute>e.g. snapshots.d.o gives me all the versions of a package, but doesn't tell me which Debian releases shipped which.
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08:01<petn-randall>umlaeute: Do you want to find it out for one package? Because reading the Packages file is not that difficult, you can simply search for the package name.
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08:02<umlaeute>i know it's not very difficult. it's just tedious.
08:03<umlaeute>nothing i would do for quick reference.
08:03<umlaeute>but thanks anyhow.
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08:09<hays>does debian have something like cloud-init that is in ubuntu?
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08:12<blast007>hays: Debian has cloud-init
08:12<hays>oh, nice
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08:44<alex11>at what point does firefox-esr become so insecure that debian rushes it into stable?
08:45<alex11>i've heard the vulnerabilities are growing but i also don't know how true that is
08:46<alex11>chromium is a lost cause but it's a shame if firefox starts going the same way
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08:50<petn-randall>alex11: The new firefox-esr is currently being prepared, if that's your question.
08:51<raven523>does that involve upgrading rust?
08:51<petn-randall>yes
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09:34<olspookishmagus>historically, where were those "not packaged" programs installing there files to? /var or /etc?
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09:35<olspookishmagus>maybe it was /opt
09:35<alex11>if i understand your question correctly, /opt or /usr/local
09:35<selckin>usually opt if it came in a binary, local if you build it
09:35<olspookishmagus>yeah it came to me that it was /opt
09:36<alex11>or ~/.local i guess
09:36<olspookishmagus>thank you both alex11 and selckin
09:36<olspookishmagus>I'm trying to de-associate it from a specific user
09:36<selckin>local is quite new in a historical sense i think
09:36<olspookishmagus>so I guess /opt is going to be fine
09:36<selckin>*.local
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10:02<EmleyMoor>Is there an easy way to get swtpm on a stable box?
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10:09<devian>hi. I'm noob. I want to install mysql but I got this Warning: apt-key is deprecated. Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d instead (see apt-key(8)
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10:09<devian>i looked it up but it was so confusing
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10:17<devrian>hi. I'm noob. I want to install mysql but I got this Warning: apt-key is deprecated. Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d instead (see apt-key(8)
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10:17<devrian>i looked it up but it was confusing.. couldn't figure out what to do
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10:18<devian>wow, what?! :D quassel irc.. :D
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10:19<petn-randall>devian: What exact steps are you taking, what do you expect, what did you get instead?
10:20<devian>i was following this https://www.linuxcapable.com/how-to-install-the-latest-mysql-8-on-debian-11/
10:21<devian>there is a ste *Mysql server and cluster
10:21<devian>Mysql tools and connector
10:21<devian>when I select ok I got this keyring message
10:23<devian>petn-randall: I expected "OK" to show in terminal as it's shown in that guide
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10:30<devian>ah, i see..
10:31<devian>i should stay away from those sites and install from what I see in repos
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10:32<petn-randall>devian: Yes. I was about to say: Why not just use `apt install mysql-server` and be done with it?
10:33<petn-randall>Although I'd probably go with mariadb due to the better support.
10:33<devian>i didn't work tho. I had to do `default-mysql-server`
10:33<petn-randall>!didnt work
10:33<petn-randall>!doesnt work
10:33<dpkg>"Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
10:34<petn-randall>devian: What OS release are you on? It should work on the current stable.
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10:40<devian>petn-randall: 11, bullseye
10:40<blast007>Debian has mariadb, not mysql
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10:41<blast007>devian: are you specifically needing MySQL for some reason?
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10:43<devian>well, what I'm actually trying to install is zabbix. And on their site there is extensive guide how to install it on debian. It offers only mysql and Postgrsql
10:44<blast007>you can use mariadb, since it's largely compatible with MySQL
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10:45<blast007>zabbix is also packaged in Debian under the zabbix-server-mysql or zabbix-server-pgsql, depending on which database you want to use
10:45<blast007>either of those would install the necessary database server
10:46<blast007>under the zabbix-server-mysql or zabbix-server-pgsql packages*
10:48<petn-randall>Oh, my bad. mysql only exists in unstable.
10:49<petn-randall>devian: TBH I'd go with postgres, much saner SQL DB than mysql/mariadb.
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10:49<devian>petn-randall: lets try it
10:50<devian>i couldn't even go through first phase.. it says wrong password pff
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10:57<rawcake>Hi all. i am trying to install Debian Bullseye live USB. I am getting the following error on boot: paste.debian.net/1221241:
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10:58<umlaeute>rawcake: *when* does this happen?
10:58<rawcake>umlaute, upon booting with live USB
10:58<rawcake>ü, on booting
11:00<rawcake>The link was unclickable, edited link paste.debian.net/1221241
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11:04<devian>yiihaa!!!
11:04<devian>zabbix is working :)
11:04<rawcake>I have been trying Secure boot: on/off, TPM: on/off, verfied sha512sum, using different image writer, paste.debian.net/1221241
11:05<somiaj>rawcake: how did you copy the .iso to the usb drive?
11:06<umlaeute>the trick to make a link clickable is to turn it into a URL by prepending the protocol. e.g. https://debian.org instead of debian.org
11:06<somiaj>Though this may not be the issue. Is this a fujitsu laptop?
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11:08<rawcake>somiaj, I used 'USB image writer' to make bootable USB that comes with Linux Mint. I also used 'Raspberry pi imager'. Same issue
11:08<somiaj>If using linux, just use cp, and not some image writer, those can sometimes cause problems. But I doubt that is the issue here
11:08<rawcake>somiaj, Yes it is a Fujitsu laptop.
11:09<rawcake>Umlaeute, Got it.
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11:11<somiaj>there is some issue with the firmawre for those laptops that just don't work with newer versions of shim
11:11<somiaj>It broke somewhere around debian 10.8 (and some other linux distros). I don't think there is a simple solution
11:11<somiaj>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995940
11:12<somiaj>There they point to a commit which could have caused this, but this now means you may need to manually patch shim to get it to boot, which requires a lot of expert knowledge
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11:16<rawcake>somiaj, Thank you for pointing me towards this bug report. You're right. I do not have enough expertise to manually do it
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11:18<devian>huh.. can't log into zabbix
11:18<devian>Incorrect user name or password or account is temporarily blocked.
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11:21<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... trying to build swtpm but failing on test_vtpm_proxy...
11:22<EmleyMoor>https://paste.debian.net/1221243/
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11:23<devian>oops,i think i need phpmyadmin
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11:28<rawcake>somiaj, I know how to do a git pull. Can I fork this repository after the commit that fixed the issue and use it somehow? Or would I need a lot more technical knowledge??
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11:34<linuxbee>During Debian 11 installation it shows The missing firmware files are: iwlwifi-6000g2a-6.ucode iwlwifi-6000g2a-5.ucode . Fom where I may download them ? plz need guidance. Thanks
11:35<rawcake>linuxbee, you can find some firmwares here https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/firmware/stable/current/
11:36<sussudio>pretty sure i already told you a few days ago linuxbee
11:37<sussudio>apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi
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11:40<linuxbee>Thanks "sussudio" for your valable gudance
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11:41<linuxbee>THere are three files firmware.cpio.gz,firmware.tar.gz and firmware.zip .When one may I extract ?
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11:43<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
11:43<sussudio>they're installed when you install the package with apt-get
11:45<rawcake>linuxbee, Press Control+Alt+T on your desktop, in Terminal, type "sudo apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi"
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11:46<linuxbee>i see,and if I try to install them after compleing my installtion process then ?
11:47<rawcake>linuxbee, try
11:47<linuxbee>sur...
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11:47<linuxbee>sure..
11:48<rawcake>Should I just install debian Buster then? I dont know what to do.
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11:50<devian>are you trying to install or bare metal or vm?
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11:50<devian>s/or/on/
11:50<rawcake>devian, baremetal, a laptop.
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11:52<devian>does that error shows up before you even get to installation or during installation?
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11:53<rawcake>devian, Before I get to installation. It is the first thing that shows up and the machine shuts down in 3 seconds
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11:57<sussudio>rawcake: https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/p8rxs8/unable_to_install_debian_11_black_screen_help/
11:58<somiaj>rawcake: rebuilding the shim package with the patch is only part of the problem. The other is getting it onto an installer, or manually installing and then putting the shim package into your install
12:00<devian>damn, what kind of laptop is that? :D
12:00<rawcake>somiaj, I am trying the solution suggested by redditor, i.e., to replace bootx64.efi with a older working version.
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12:01<rawcake>somiaj, sussudio, However, my usb/EFI/boot/ has both grubx64 and bootx64.efi. Is it possible to use grub instead or am I talking total rubbish?
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12:30<x8dfe56>Hi, I have created a veracypt container on my external hard drive, however i can't access it on Windows. The contrary work though : A container created on Windows can be accessed on Linux ... Is there any way to "reformat" the container so i can access it on Window or should i create only Veracrypt containers on Windows (So i can access it on both OS) ? Thanks,
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12:34<Habbie>x8dfe56, what filesystem did you use inside the container?
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12:41<x8dfe56>Oups, I just realized i used a LinuxFileSystem (Ext3). My mistake sorry for this dumb question.
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12:43<Habbie>x8dfe56, no worries, easy to miss, glad my question helped :)
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12:44<sussudio>there's an ext2/3/4 driver for windows, if you really need it.
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12:49<x8dfe56>I will try not to mix them up to avoid data corruption. Thanks for the advice though.
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13:22<colo>so after installing podman, my debian 11 host had a new systemd mount unit active: var-lib-containers-storage-overlay.mount
13:23<colo>I could not figure out where that was defined, or what did define it
13:24<colo>does anyones in this channel know where it comes from? afaict, configuing "graphroot" in /etc/containers/storage.conf to a different location that /var/lib/containers made that mount unit disappear from the system after rebooting.
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13:29<sney>,file var-lib-containers-storage-overlay.mount
13:29<judd>No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found with that file.
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13:30<sussudio>,i podman
13:30<judd>Package podman (admin, optional) in bullseye/amd64: engine to run OCI-based containers in Pods. Version: 3.0.1+dfsg1-3+b2; Size: 9289.9k; Installed: 36396k; Homepage: https://github.com/containers/podman
13:30<sney>ah, if it was autogenerated it may have been populated from a fstab entry
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13:30<colo>it wasn't, fstab was not touched
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13:45<rawcake>Trying debian testing version
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15:27<ova>Hello! I have a problem with the package miniupnpd. When I installed it, it by default installed the miniupnpd-nftables package, but I am using iptables. I then removed the miniupnpd-nftables package and installed miniupnpd-iptables package, but miniupnpd when launching via systemctl (it's actually an init.d script) still fails claiming I have the wrong version installed and that I
15:27<ova>need miniupnpd-iptables. Does anyone else remember having this problem or is there any alternative upnpd for forwarding ports from inside a NAT?
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15:30<somiaj>are you sure you are using iptables and not the iptables-nft wrapper?
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15:32<ova>I see what's the problem. The startstop script of miniupnpd checks if the file /etc/miniupnpd/nft_init.sh is present and my chosen backend is iptables. In this case it fails. It does not actually check if the package miniupnpd-nftables is installed or not. This nft_init.sh file is from package miniupnpd-nftables, which is not installed, but the file remains on my disk. I am not sure
15:32<ova>why ...
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15:33<ova>Doesn't the package manager delete files from a package when I uninstall it?
15:33<sussudio>only if you tell it to.
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15:34<ova>Well it certainly deletes binaries from /usr/bin ...
15:34<sussudio>difference between apt remove and apt purge
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15:37<ova>I am having trouble understanding what files remove leaves, at lest from the apt(8) manpage... What are "usually small (modified) user configuration files"?
15:37<sussudio>things in /etc
15:37<ova>Strictly modified?
15:37<ova>and strictly small?
15:38<ova>or usually small and strictly modified? (:
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15:38<sussudio>apt remove gets rid of binaries, purge gets rid of everything.
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15:39<ova>So only shared objects and executable ELFs? How does it determine what are binaries? (I'm sorry if I sound like a jerk, that's not my intention :)
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15:40<sussudio>things that were in the install package.
15:40<sussudio>shared objects are probably in a different package.
15:41<ova>But aren't configuration files in the package as well? So is everything deleted except for files in /etc?
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15:41<kiki>Hi! I'm not sure where to ask so sorry if this is the wrong place. Can anyone tell me how to stop sbuild from cleaning up after failing?
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15:42<sussudio>there are config files in the package. if you modify them, they will be kept if you don't use purge.
15:43<sussudio>there's a /var/log/dpkg.log
15:43<ova>Okay, thanks a lot, so it is based on modification. It seems like some weird script edited /etc/miniupnpd/nft_init.sh
15:44<sussudio>,file nft_init.sh
15:44<judd>Search for nft_init.sh in bullseye/amd64: miniupnpd-nftables: etc/miniupnpd/nft_init.sh
15:44<sussudio>seems like it's only in that.
15:45<ova>Yeah. But it did not get removed after removing miniupnpd-nftables, even though I did not modify it... Is this a bug?
15:45<sussudio>you can search for file sin packages yourself with apt-cache search
15:45<sussudio>i'm not a package maintainer, you'd have to ask someone else.
15:45<ova>thanks a lot
15:46<sussudio>you could look on the bugs page.
15:46<sussudio>!bugs
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15:47<ova>Probably something related to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=992603
15:47<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/992603 in miniupnpd (open): «miniupnpd: Miniupnpd with nftables backend will not start if iptables is not installed.»; severity: important; opened: 2021-08-21; last modified: 2021-08-21.
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15:47<ova>Except my version (bullseye) already checks for nftables, so the mentioned bug should be closed and another one opened in my opinion.
15:48<sussudio>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=994726
15:48<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/994726 in miniupnpd-nftables (open, patch): «miniupnpd-nftables scripts eat iptables-nft NAT rules on exit»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-09-19; last modified: 2021-09-19.
15:48<sussudio>or that. seems a bit messy.
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15:49<ova>it is. many things (at least in my clumsy setups) are sometimes broken with nftables, so I stick to iptables...
15:50<ova>(the legacy one)
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15:59<devicenull>can I specifiy preseed options during dist-upgrade? I'm trying to get ipset-persistent to stop blowing away my changes during a fully automated upgrade
15:59<devicenull>it looks like I'd need to set `ipset-persistent/autosave boolean false` during the upgrade - but I dont see an option to do that
15:59<devicenull>otherwise w/ DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive, it answers yes to "Current ipsets can be saved to the configuration file /etc/ipset/ipsets. These ipsets will then be loaded automatically during system startup."
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16:17<hays>i'm guessing that testing doesn't have "volatile" repos
16:19<hays>oops
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16:41<zleap>looks like libera has suffered a netsplit
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16:46<imMute>it's IRC. that'll happen.
16:46<XileX>zleap: Seems they joined back
16:48<zleap>yeah
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16:59<g00se>Bullseye/Mate and I sometimes get a freeze of X. Wondering if it could be a hardware issue and how I might troubleshoot that…?
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17:03<sney>g00se: persistent journal is the default in bullseye, so you can e.g. 'journalctl -b-1' to see the journal from the previous boot, if you froze and rebooted
17:04<sney>you might see some useful error messages there. you can also try running a memtest, or if this is a desktop pc, testing with a different gpu
17:05<g00se>I reset the display manager rather than rebooted. Nothing in the X log
17:06<g00se>It's a laptop. I was thinking of running a memtest
17:07<sney>look in the journal too, as it will have different contents than the X log
17:07<sney>in case there's something yelling about i/o, etc
17:07<g00se>Will do
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17:08<g00se>I think memtests have changed now and are not a default boot option. If I install one, does it appear in the boot menu?
17:08<g00se>memtest86+ (?)
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17:11<sarnold>g00se: one of memtest86 or memtest86+ only works on CSM / "legacy" / pre-uefi boots -- and the other one, the "sign up for an account and download it" one, can do uefi
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17:11<sarnold>g00se: if you change what mode your system boots in the bios interface, I think the memtest86 or memtest86+ will show up in the boot menu
17:11<sarnold>g00se: (don't forget to set the system back to uefi when you're done)
17:12<g00se>Ah OK thanks. Academic here as this is not UEFI
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17:12<sarnold>hah
17:15*g00se finds huge number of redundant linux-images ;)
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17:28<twb>old kernels autoremove in debian 11 or 12
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17:31<g00se>Ah right. This is Bullseye
17:34<twb>bullseye = 11
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17:37<sussudio>no, this is sparta.
17:38<g00se>I know ;)
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17:44<twb>Trust a Laconian to get it wrong
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18:22<g00se>In a UEFI dual boot, does Windows still care which partition it's on?
18:23<g00se>*Windows 10
18:23<somiaj>you are talking about the UEFI partition?
18:24<somiaj>Also 'does windows' is best asked in someplace like ##windows on libera, since we don't really support windows here
18:29<twb>g00se: I strongly recommend not to both with dual boot
18:29<twb>g00se: pick one OS, make the other a VM inside it
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18:31<twb>You can install Debian from the pre-installed Microsoft "Store" app. Or the other way, gnome-boxes provides one-click install of Windows from ~/Downloads/<downloaded windows installer>.iso
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18:35<g00se>Yes, a VM could be better
18:36<g00se>The box is currently running Buster
18:37<somiaj>I dual boot just fine, and you can put the efi partition wherever, but I find I rarely actually boot into windows.
18:39<g00se>somiaj: if i did dual boot, would Windows 10 min going into a partition that was not the first?
18:39<g00se>*mind
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18:41<somiaj>It shouldn't. I use two different drives for my setup
18:41<somiaj>But again for windows support might want to try places that have users more familar with it
18:42<blast007>generally best to install Windows first as it will overwrite the boot loader, but you can repair that from the rescue mode on the Debian install DVD/CD.
18:42<blast007>Also a good idea to set Linux to use local time for the hardware clock.
18:43<somiaj>Though with UEFI that is less of a problem, you can even avoid using grub to boot both and use your firmware to select if you boot from the windows or the linux efi file
18:44<blast007>ah
18:46<somiaj>note windows will make itself the default efi file to use, but you can often just use your firmware to select the debian efi and make it default vs having to recover the system.
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18:50<g00se>Thanks. I shall ask my client what he thinks. I gave him a dual boot before but not sure how much Windows was used
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18:57<g00se>Changing the subject entirely, I've just, over about three days, run a non-destructive badblocks on a 1Tb drive from a Raspberry Pi. One bad block on it. It just happens to be the last one
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19:54<g00se>So the memtest has had an interesting result. The test ran its first pass up to 55% with zero errors. Only problem is it stuck right there!
19:55<sarnold>o_O
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19:58<sney>yes, if memtest froze, then that is a pretty solid indicator of a low-level hardware problem.
19:58<sney>try moving your memory modules around
19:58<g00se>Hmm but what kind?
19:59<g00se>Swap laptop sodimms?
20:00<sney>yeah, see if the failure happens earlier/later
20:00<sarnold>or maybe test them one at a time
20:00<g00se>Right
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20:04<g00se>What about 'processor lock' - is that a thing? Or dodgy graphics?
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20:08<sarnold>there are some flaws that the processor can detect and log via "machine check exceptions", but not all problems can be caught in this way
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20:16<g00se>Ah just noticed: not ALL of the screen is frozen. There's flashing asterisk after Memtest86. So probably not a graphics thing. Test still stuck at 55% though
20:17<sney>if this laptop has been carried around a lot as a portable computer, it's possible that it's developed some stress fractures on the motherboard, which can result in hard to debug problems
20:18<sney>but switch the sodimms first, or try them one at a time, since a bad memory module is easier to replace
20:18<g00se>Will do thanks. And thanks all. Time for bed…
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20:42<joeDoe>I recently ran sbuild-debian-developer-setup in preparation for something I've never done, creating a .deb from code. I'm stuck, and I need some hand holding :). I know I now need to run dget and sbuild. But,...
20:42<joeDoe>dget is going to go get a bunch of stuff and I want to make sure it put's it in the right place when it does.
20:42<joeDoe>I suspect sbuild might end up downloading stuff it needs to get the job done, but at least will start making a binary from the source, and maybe creating other files, so I want that happening in the right place, too.
20:43<joeDoe>I can't tell from the man pages nor https://wiki.debian.org/sbuild what my working directory needs to be for either command.
20:43<joeDoe>Do I cd to the chroot to run dget so the code is there, or do I do it outside the chroot and sbuild takes care of making sure everything happens in the chroot?
20:43<joeDoe>Likewise, do I invoke sbuild from outside and it takes care of making things happen in the chroot, or I cd to the chroot to invoke sbuild?
20:43<joeDoe>Can anyone point me in the right direction?
20:44<sney>if you follow the basic package building example in the new maintainer guide, the workflow will generally make more sense and you'll have an easier time applying it
20:44<sney>https://deb.li/3DiDA
20:46<sarnold>"As an example, I'll use a program called gentoo, a GTK+ file manager" heh
20:46<sarnold>that's not at all confusing..
20:46<joeDoe>sney, thanks, I'm reading now
20:47<sney>sarnold: heh, that's been the example forever, I was confused by it for a moment years ago too
20:48<sarnold>sney: I wonder if it predates the gentoo distribution or if it was chosen intentionally as a joke? :)
20:48<sney>ha, who knows
20:50<sarnold>this guide is twenty times larger than I expected / hoped
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20:51<sarnold>I kinda hoped for something that would fit on one page the size of these individual pages ;) hehe. I hope it works out for joeDoe, but it feels like drinking from a firehose to me
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20:59<somiaj>!packaging
20:59<dpkg>Visit http://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers for information on how to package for Debian. Also ask me about <nmg> <package basics> <policy> <mentors> and <best practices>. See the #debian-mentors or #packaging channels on irc.oftc.net.
20:59<somiaj>I thought there was something shorter, but unsure
20:59<somiaj>!package basics
20:59<dpkg>from memory, package basics is "Basics of the Debian package management system" is a chapter of the Debian GNU/Linux <FAQ>, which describes the Debian package format. https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/pkg-basics . To create your own Debian packages, ask me about <nmg>.
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21:06<somiaj>joeDoe: I think you maybe going overbold, you shouldn't need sbuild just to build a debian package. It is useful but not required.
21:07<somiaj>joeDoe: What code are you trying to build into a debian package?
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21:17<joeDoe>yeah, firehose. I just skimmed, but it looks like that doc is mostly about creating a .dsc. I already have that. ctrl+f didn't dget in that doc, and only found sbuild once, in a footnote :/
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21:18<joeDoe>somiaj: I want to build purple-matrix, a dsc exists in sid, for bullseye.
21:18<joeDoe>I've had two reports of a succesful build
21:18<joeDoe>for bullseye, I mean
21:18<somiaj>oh weren't you trying to build this eariler. It just builds a single .so which is a plugin. Why do you want to make this a debian package?
21:18<r4fkramer>Hi all. Please, just to confirm: I think having two swap partitions for a dual boot installation (Debian + KALI) doesn't make sense.
21:18<r4fkramer>Better removing the largest one - almost 10 GB Swap, an old requirement for a SAP ERP installation in Debian Buster, and I don't use this app anymore. Is that correct this reasoning ?
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21:19<r4fkramer>https://paste.debian.net/1221299/
21:19<joeDoe>just for myself, yes
21:19<somiaj>If you hibernate having two swap partitions could make sense.
21:19<somiaj>joeDoe: I think you are trying to go overkill here. Just build the software with 'make' and copy the .so to ~/.purple/plugins I think should be enough.
21:19<somiaj>provided I am recalling this correctly
21:20<joeDoe>having a deb makes removing so much easier if I don't like it
21:20<somiaj>just remove the .so from ~/.purple/plugins
21:20<somiaj>It is a single file, easy to copy into place/remove
21:20<sarnold>r4fkramer: I don't think 10gb is worth much effort one way or the other
21:20<joeDoe>but I guess I could go that way. It's just that I've got this far with making a deb, I'd kind of like to go through with it
21:21<sarnold>:)
21:21<joeDoe>all I need at this point is to know where to be below / to run each command
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21:22<joeDoe>I don't understand enough about how much lifting sbuild does to make things happen in the chroot I have waiting for it
21:22<r4fkramer>Fine sarnold. According this analysis, better removing this 10 GB swap ?
21:22<sarnold>r4fkramer: I wouldn't bother doing anything :) there's youtube to watch! :)
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21:24<r4fkramer>Ok, sorry, but it wasn't my intention disturbing your youtube watching. I just have a doubt here about this swap.
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21:28<sarnold>r4fkramer: sorry, I'm just suggesting that you probably have better things to do that worry about swap partitions :)
21:30<r4fkramer>Oh, I sorry, I didn't understand your answer, sarnold :) Perhaps you are right. I have a headache here, and need to relax a little bit. Thanks for youtube suggestions. I'll check some channels over there :)
21:31<r4fkramer>And avoid channels related to swap, lol
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21:32<sarnold>r4fkramer: lol good idea :D
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21:32<r4fkramer>:)
21:33<sarnold>r4fkramer: honestly, removing the swap would be fine, but then you've either got an unused 10gb partition, or you have to figure out how to grow an existing filesystem into it, or make a new filesystem there, or something. whatever you'd pick is probably not worth the trouble to do any of those things.
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21:34<r4fkramer>Fine sarnold, I ended thinking the same. I thought about resizing the primary partition, but it's not an intuitive task as I imagined at first. At least using gparte.
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21:35<r4fkramer>Better forgetting about it
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21:39<r4fkramer>Oh, no it's intuitive using gparted. Resized here. Now, going to Youtube. Thank you very much for attention and Great Support, sarnold !
21:39<sarnold>r4fkramer: hah, is it *done* already??
21:39<sarnold>r4fkramer: nice work :D
21:41<r4fkramer>Yeah, easier than I imagined. I'll check the debian installation now and see if there's no file missing over there. See you sarnold ! Thanks for answering somiaj :)
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23:53<tzf>Hi, I forgot where are stored .deb after "apt install ..." can you enlight me?
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 30 00:00:21 2021