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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-11-30

---Logopened Tue Nov 30 00:00:21 2021
---Daychanged Tue Nov 30 2021
00:00-!-jcbjoe2021 [~joe@0002cf30.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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00:01-!-lucas_ is "Lucas Castro" on #debian-devel-br #debian #kernelnewbies #debian-bsb
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00:01-!-TheRuralJuror is "AP,,," on #debian-next #debian.or.at #security #debian
00:01<jcbjoe2021>Hi all fresh install of Debian gets me to grub I ran the commands to boot to my system with root=/dev/partition I logged into gnome did update-grub rebooted and it still rebooted to rescue grub. Anyway to fix so I can boot normally?
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00:05<jcbjoe2021>Why is it repeating what I said?
00:06<tzf>No jcbjoe2021, it do not repeat, no worriea
00:07<tzf>*worries
00:08<jcbjoe2021>Ok
00:09<tzf>jcbjoe2021, Last night I have read an issue with Grub but I don't know the fix...
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00:09<tzf>jcbjoe2021, is it stable or unstable debian?
00:09-!-user is now known as Guest7201
00:10<jcbjoe2021>It sucks typing in commands at grub all the timr
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00:12<tzf>Ohhh, I got that before, I had to modify /efi approach from BIOS setup...
00:12<tzf>But I don't know in your case
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00:12-!-dogsleg_ is "Lev Lamberov" on #debian-l10n-russian #debian-devel-changes #debian
00:13<tzf>And I had to run Sid unstable because computer was too new, kernel issue, needed the last kernel
00:14<jcbjoe2021>Hmm
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00:15<jcbjoe2021>What do you mean by efi approach?
00:15<tzf>jcbjoe2021, is it a dual boot?
00:16<tzf>jcbjoe2021, approach I mean in my BIOS there are diffrent ways to boot on /efi and but I forgot now, okay wait I will go there and tell you...
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00:18<tzf>Oh no /o\ ! I have put a password on the BIOS ? Why? I don't know now the pass, grrrrrrrrrub
00:19<tzf>Ah good I got it !!!
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00:19<twb>If you have physical access to the server, you can generally remove the BIOS password by shorting out a BIOS reset pin on the mainboard
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00:21<tzf>jcbjoe2021, ok, so it's in Security >>> Select an UEFI file as trusted for executing :
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00:22<tzf>twb, cool ! Thanks mate !
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00:24<tzf>jcbjoe2021, then here I can choose for : " shimx64.efi ; grubx64.efi ; mmx64.efi ; fbx64.efi "
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00:25<tzf>jcbjoe2021, so I had to choose " shimx64.efi "
00:26<tzf>shimx64.efi, however that may completely not feat to your case, right?
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00:35<tzf>Hey I got my answer, .deb are stored in : /var/cache/apt/archives right?
00:36<twb>tzf: shimx64.efi is related to secure boot.
00:36<tzf>And here it's empty... i guess a feature of auto-clean from my distribution
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00:36<twb>tzf: it sounds like maybe you broke your secure boot setup somehow
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00:37<jcbjoe2021>tzf: I fixed it
00:37<tzf>How?
00:37<jcbjoe2021>Followed https://www.linuxbabe.com/command-line/how-to-use-linux-efibootmgr-examples
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00:38<jcbjoe2021>Deleted the Ubuntu entry and moved the boot order to Debian with efibootmgr
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00:38<tzf>jcbjoe2021, cool, I am happy for you !
00:38<twb>tzf: re sid and newer kernel, you might try installing linux-image-generic/bullseye-backports
00:39<twb>tzf: that is currently 5.14, where unstable is 5.15
00:39<tzf>twb, now debian11 run smoothly
00:39<tzf>It was last year
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00:41<jcbjoe2021>I got a lot to learn you haven't seen the last of me lol
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00:52<jcbjoe2021>Any good terminals for Debian? I'm using default gnome terminal in i3
00:52<jcbjoe2021>I tried alaracity or whatever it was and it had upstream issues
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01:02<coc0nut>https://pastebin.com/iSBmhpsy <- anyone have a clue on this? I failed a proxmox install on one of my debian pets... thinking to reinstall but it might be a better fix? :p
01:02<coc0nut>and I want to use backports.. but the previous failed proxmox install is messing it up i think
01:03<coc0nut>its stuck on updating to 5.14 but fails
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01:21<famubu>Would debian work okay in AMD processor computers? I was specifically on this laptop: https://www.lenovo.com/in/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-e-series/ThinkPad-E14-Gen-3-14%E2%80%9D-AMD/p/20Y7S00700
01:21<twb>It works fine in mine
01:22<famubu>Heard someone say AMD processors don't need new kernels to work. So I thought I better ask
01:22<twb>The CPU isn't really the issue. The issue is what chipsets are in the peripherals
01:22<famubu>s/don't need/need/
01:22<twb>famubu: just run a backport kernel anyway so meh
01:23<twb>IMO a backport kernel is mandatory for chipsets made after the debian release
01:23<somiaj>often bleeding edge ryzens have had trouble, but with bullseye most should be supported. My ryzen 7 works just fine
01:23<twb>somiaj: "ryzen" is consumer-grade term for epyc, yeah?
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01:23<somiaj>And I think it was more the ryzens with integrated gpus vs the actual cpu
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01:24<somiaj>twb: Not sure on that, that is just the name of the chips
01:24<famubu>Is this one's processor new enough to be still bleeding edge?
01:24<somiaj>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryzen
01:24<twb>I generally buy intel for things that draw pictures on a screen, just because intel GPUs have a long history of (mostly) not being dickheads
01:24<famubu>twb: How can we figure out if the chipset is okay to work with debian?
01:25<somiaj>one way is to just try
01:25<somiaj>you can also look up which linux kernel supports it
01:25<twb>famubu: well a few years ago you'd boot Debian on it and save the output of "lspci" and then put that into kmuto.jp's HCL page
01:25<twb>famubu: but that's down now...
01:25<somiaj>though my guess, unless the chip was made int he last six months, you are fine
01:25<twb>for laptops specifically you can look for the linux laptops website, and the arch wiki
01:26<twb>For thinkpads even the debian wiki might have something
01:30<famubu>twb: This is not the linux laptops website, is it? https://laptopwithlinux.com/
01:30<famubu>twb: Found debian wiki page on thinkpad installation: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/
01:31<famubu>But couldn't find E14. I guess that page is not yet made. Or could it be that it's another name for a laptop already mentioned there?
01:33<famubu>somiaj: Chip being designed in the last 6 months? Or the chip itself being made within 6 months?
01:33<famubu>(I have no idea about these things..)
01:34<somiaj>I'd personally look at the sound card and gpu.
01:34<famubu>somiaj: To find the which linux kernel supports a laptop, is the kernel release page the right place to look?
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01:34<somiaj>Though unless you can find someone with that exact laptop who wrote up what worked/didn't, it is just a gamble. I have personally had good luck, but I don't buy bleeding edge hardware, it is too spendy. I usually buy a 1-2 year old models
01:35<somiaj>thinkpads usually have good support, and most likely a backport kernel will work if the native bullseye one doesn't. But as with all open source stuff, these statements come with no warranty
01:38<famubu>Probably a silly questions: Is there a chance of bricking the laptop when we try out a distro? Is that always a possibility?
01:38<famubu>Was a bit scared tbh. About breaking a new computer... :D
01:39<famubu>Found a page from lenovo about support for linux but this model isn't listed there either: https://support.lenovo.com/in/en/solutions/pd031426-linux-for-personal-systems
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01:44<famubu>Been reading about backports at https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
01:44<famubu>Is it the same thing from where we can get newer kernels as well?
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01:47<Anarka>yep it is
01:47<Anarka>,v linux-image
01:47<judd>No package named 'linux-image' was found in amd64.
01:47<Anarka>meh :p
01:47<Anarka>,v linux-image-amd64
01:47<judd>Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster-security: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u13; bullseye-security: 5.10.46-5; buster-backports: 5.10.70-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.10.70-1; bullseye-backports: 5.14.9-2~bpo11+1; bookworm: 5.15.3-1; sid: 5.15.5-1; experimental:
01:47<judd>5.16~rc1-1~exp1
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01:52<famubu>By default debian installer doesn't have non-free firmware stuff, right? Can we download and install them later even if used the default installer?
01:53<Anarka>yep, just add the non-free to your sources
01:53<famubu>In https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.1.0+nonfree/amd64/ , what do acronyms like bt,bd and list mean? Found jigdo stands for jigsaw.
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01:54<Anarka>bittorrent =?
01:56<famubu>Ah.. yes. Should've gone inside the directory and looked. Sorry.. :D
01:56<Anarka>:)
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02:11<jcbjoe2021>,v znc
02:11<judd>Package: znc on amd64 -- stretch: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 1.7.2-3~bpo9+1; buster: 1.7.2-3; buster-backports: 1.8.2-2~bpo10+1; bookworm: 1.8.2-2+b1; bullseye: 1.8.2-2+b1; sid: 1.8.2-2+b1
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03:49<msk>hi
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03:50<msk>on bullseye 11.1.0 and i'm trying to figure out dependency of a package without installing it.
03:52<azeem>apt show $PACKAGE | grep Depends
03:53<msk>azeem i am trying out the following apt-get install -oDebug::pkgProblemResolver=1 --verbose-versions --show-progress --assume-no apt-transport-https
03:53<msk>unfortunately this installs the package despite the option '--assume-no'
03:54<azeem>what are you trying to solve?
03:54<azeem>that sounds pretty convoluted just to figure out dependencies
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03:55<azeem>you can add --download-only
03:55<msk>two things: 1. dependencies 2. which scripts get executed as part of the dependencies
03:55<azeem>so you want to install the dependencies, but not the package?
03:55<msk>i want to trace through the entire execution (more akin to a dry run)
03:56<azeem>09:54 < azeem> what are you trying to solve?
03:57<msk>what i noticed is that there are shell scripts that get executed in the dependencies (eg. create certain dir, userid, perms), so if ican get an insight like 'bash -x' equivalent while doing a apt-get install that would be awesome.
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03:58<azeem>I don't think you can
03:58<msk>i have alread looked at the control.tar.xz and data.tar.xz of the various dependent packages.
03:58<grawity>strace -f -e execve -- apt-get etc
03:58<grawity>oh, without installing it
03:58<msk>however, what i am unable to figure out is the 'order' in which the scripts get executed and what variables were set/or passed.
03:59<msk>grawity no worries, if i have to install it (i can throw away the temp VM later).
04:00<msk>case in point, the 'docker' packaging is a mess, with all sorts of scripts running in interim stages on debian.
04:01<msk>so if i can figure out the dependencies, i will write a single clean script in PERL which will do the requisite steps, checks and give me the environment, i will then just download the golang binaries in the specific bin/ directory and start off the custom unit files.
04:01<azeem>the upstream docker packaging, or the Debian docker.io package?
04:01<msk>using debian
04:02<msk>i am very comfortable with gentoo and archlinux, but am a debian n00b, just got started on debian last week. i have to use debian at my job.
04:03<azeem>so is the problem what gets installed by the docker.io package, or rather the way it is done?
04:04<msk>the way it is done !
04:04<azeem>*shrug*
04:04<msk>i am trying to get some visibility in that.
04:04<jm_>msk: you can tell apt how to call dpkg, which has options for scripts -- «dpkg -Dhelp», but I don't think it will show script commands if that's what you want to see
04:04<azeem>msk: sounds like you're looking for a problem that doesn't really exist
04:05<msk>alright azeem :-)
04:05<msk>jm_ yes
04:08<msk>i wonder how folks would debug a package installation failure in such a case.
04:10<jm_>people who create package can easily stick 'set -x' in their postinst script etc.
04:10<jm_>or achieve it using other ways
04:11<msk>exactly :)
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05:21<toolz>is there anyone here familiar with bonding issue on bullseye? we have everything installed, bond0 simply is not showing up, no such device, ifenslave is installed, net-tools. I have no idea whats wrong with it, we've setup multiple nodes with bonding, never on bullseye, config is fine, but the bond0 interface is never created/added what are we missing?
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05:23<TomyWork>https://git.dpkg.org/cgit/dpkg/dpkg.git/commit/?id=15416a18f7645dbb9a36edb1e52f30a9e83c6627 this broke our packages. all of them. fun. why deprecate when you can just break stuff right out the gate?
05:25<TomyWork>not even really sure we can do something about it since we use a maven plugin to create them and that would have to be fixed first.
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05:42<petn-randall>TomyWork: I'm sure you've tested things first before moving to bullseye?
05:43<petn-randall>TomyWork: If you rely on the buggy behaviour in stretch, you can always set up a chroot for that.
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05:44<TomyWork>I'm really not sure why you're defending making breaking changes without a deprecation period
05:44<TomyWork>of course I'm testing. that's how I know it broke.
05:47<petn-randall>I'm not defending it, I'm just asking myself how I can support you here.
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05:48<TomyWork>I don't know. probably a bit late to turn the error into a warning.
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06:20<petn-randall>TomyWork: If it helps, you should run lintian over your packages. That will warn you about packaging mistakes. It would have then errored out and pointed you to this policy section: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-conffiles.html#automatic-handling-of-configuration-files-by-dpkg
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06:26<TomyWork>lintian, that's probably a good idea
06:28<TomyWork>uh, that raises a bunch of warnings and errors
06:30<TomyWork>and it would have told us about this one, yep: E: <package name>: relative-conffile [...]
06:32<TomyWork>we'll probably have to pass quite a few ignore flags, cause some of those are spurious
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06:38<TomyWork>uhm, why is this an error? E: <package name>: file-in-etc-not-marked-as-conffile etc/init.d/<service name>
06:40<TomyWork>i mean we can just remove that file anyway, since no one needs sysvinit anymore, but why should these scripts be marked as configuration when they clearly should absolutely not be modified by the user
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07:15<petn-randall>TomyWork: They *can* be modified by the user, that's why they're in /etc/.
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07:16<petn-randall>TomyWork: On first approximation, when lintian says it's an error, it probably is. I've yet to find a case in 5 years of packaging where it was wrong.
07:17<petn-randall>(the pedantic errors are often stupid, but they're a different class of warnings).
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07:27<TomyWork>well I've been making debian packages for 10 years now, albeit not using debhelper and such and I also have 0 years of experience with lintian, so you got that on me.
07:28<TomyWork>apparently lintian correctly mirrors debian policy there, so my issue is with debian policy, not lintian
07:34<TomyWork>I consider /etc/init.d/* code, not configuration. I don't mark them as config because I want to overwrite users' changes in there. I need to make sure that maintainer-side changes to these files always make it through and I have no idea why debian has a policy stating the opposite.
07:35<TomyWork>I can only assume that policy came from some of the same people who split off into Devuan
07:36<Blondie101010>updating files meant to allow users to store their own customizations is opposite to any common sense
07:37<Blondie101010>we usually have to tell users what to update, and you don't even respect that proper place
07:37<TomyWork>I don't disagree with your first statement, I just disagree about /etc/init.d being configuration
07:37<TomyWork>or "customization", as you put it
07:38<Blondie101010>yeah well I haven't *decided* to put *anything* in /etc/init.d for a long time
07:39<Blondie101010>with systemd, that's pretty much deprecated
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07:39<TomyWork>oh yeah this has been legacy for a couple of years now. we just havent had a reason to remove it yet
07:39<TomyWork>I guess I found one
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07:40<Blondie101010>normally those only exist when applications have been poorly migrated
07:42<TomyWork>we had to support both systemd and sysvinit and we wanted to have proper systemd support right out of the gate, so we added detection code to the maintainer scripts
07:44<TomyWork>so yeah you could call that poorly migrated, cause it's not yet fully migrated
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07:46<petn-randall>TomyWork: So, let's assume I need to make changes to how the daemon is started. How would I do that?
07:46<petn-randall>TomyWork: Note that it will simply be overwritten on upgrade if there are no changes to it.
07:47<petn-randall>TomyWork: I've probably been packaging for 10 years, too, but only 5 for the Debian archive.
07:47<TomyWork>if you change the code that runs the daemon, you're out of support and probably know what you're doing
07:48<petn-randall>TomyWork: Sure. And as an admin I don't want to be overwritten.
07:48<TomyWork>depends
07:48<TomyWork>on your definition of an admin
07:49<petn-randall>TomyWork: Note that you can override it if you want, but I for example would be annoyed by the fact if my customized init script gets blindly overwritten.
07:49<TomyWork>the people who use our packages need to be nannied
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07:49<petn-randall>TomyWork: Then IMHO you're nannying at the wrong part.
07:50<TomyWork>what would be the right part?
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07:51<petn-randall>TomyWork: I'd use config management tools on those machines, and probably not give them root access unless otherwise needed.
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07:52<TomyWork>that'd probably cost them their ITIL certification if they allowed me to do that
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07:53<petn-randall>hahahaha
07:54<TomyWork>like I said, you have a very specific conception of how operations are run and that is not universal
07:54<TomyWork>well, i didnt say it, but i kinda implied it
07:55<petn-randall>TomyWork: Sure. I'm just saying from experience, e.g. IBM tivoli storage manager had a crappy init script, and I had to change it quite a bit to actually work properly.
07:56<TomyWork>yeah in that case, I'd just repackage it and tell them to use that instead
07:56<TomyWork>that's what I did for, I think, elasticsearch, anyway
07:56<Blondie101010>an OS that updates a system configuration file which is not expected to change is a bug
07:56<TomyWork>or was it logstash?
07:56<petn-randall>And from experience, 90% of the 3rd party packages I've seen in my 10+ years as admin got the init scripts wrong. Which is why I think systemd is a godsend in that aspect, as there's little you can do stupid to break things.
07:57<Blondie101010>RHEL prevents it with change detection in their installer, for example
07:57<Blondie101010>not ideal, but useful to protect against bad packages
07:58<DusXMT>tivoli, that name sounds familiar... is it an FPGA network card?
07:58<Blondie101010>isn't tivoli a user monitoring tool?
07:58<TomyWork>petn-randall, from what I know about init scripts, there is no correct way, since all of them are broken in at least one way that only a pid1 service manager like systemd or upstart can really fix
07:58<DusXMT>ah, that's more likely
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08:00<DusXMT>I was thinking of this, but yeah, it's not an IBM product: https://www.silicom.dk/
08:00<TomyWork>petn-randall, and in my opinion, if you're manually adjusting /etc/init.d files, you're doing admin wrong. that should be done through configuration management and then it doesn't really matter whether the package overwrites it every time anyway
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08:01<petn-randall>TomyWork: I've seen things like: the init script not terminating, blocking boot; <initscript> restart not checking for a running instance; restart sporadically because the daemon didn't terminate before it got started again; init scripts failing on doing what they were asked for, but still exiting with rc 0;
08:01<petn-randall>TomyWork: It does, because the daemon often gets restarted on upgrade/installation.
08:02<petn-randall>*sporadically failing
08:03<TomyWork>dont get me wrong, the people using our packages are also doing admin wrong in the same way. they should also use configuration management. hell, some of them even have configuration management agents installed. why they dont use that to install our software is beyond me
08:04<TomyWork>petn-randall, that sounds like the list of things I fixed in our maintainer scripts over the years :D
08:04<TomyWork>I didnt write the initial ones, btw
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08:07<TomyWork>petn-randall, btw, about exiting with rc 0: rpm has been considering non-zero %postun return codes as not a big deal for a while now. what do you think about that?
08:07<TomyWork>I hate it
08:08<petn-randall>post uninstall? I guess the edge case is you want to be able to remove the package even if it fails. I've had to delete the postrm scripts on .deb packages in the past to make it work.
08:08<TomyWork>by "not a big deal", I mean it shows a warning on screen and returns 0
08:09<TomyWork>which is not great if you use configuration management tools which rely on a meaningful exit status
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08:10<TomyWork>or was it %preun?
08:10<TomyWork>let me check
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08:12<TomyWork>it was %post
08:12<TomyWork>i.e. the scriptlet that ensures that the package is properly set up
08:13<TomyWork>https://gist.github.com/TomyLobo/23d3fb65295e00b1abf8bcc4307f6b7e I still have the gist to prove it :D
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08:16<TomyWork>I really like debian's way here. it forces you to fix the situation before moving on
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08:21<petn-randall>TomyWork: Ouch. But I'm guessing there's a way in the package to define if it should be fatal? That's a stupid default, though.
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08:28<TomyWork>https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Scriptlets/ "All scriptlets MUST exit with the zero exit status."
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08:28<TomyWork>I guess that's a way to solve it, just declare errors illegal!
08:29<TomyWork>there was even a bug files for the kernel package, which would render the system unbootable if %post failed because /boot was full or something like that
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08:50<TomyWork>filed*
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08:57<EmleyMoor>Trying to build swtpm on bullseye results in this failed test: https://paste.debian.net/1221243/
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08:59<g00se>Sanity check: rsync's --files-from is ok with entries of form Documents/ is it not?
09:00<petn-randall>g00se: Try it with --dry-run and check if it's what you expect.
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09:02<g00se>Reason I'm asking is that weirdly, transfers occurred but only partial
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09:03<petn-randall>g00se: The file was only partially synced? Or only a part of the list of files was?
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09:04<g00se>All directories were synced, but not fully. e.g. i'd get c 20G for Pictures/ instead of the 72G it really contains
09:05*g00se had to end up doing all 5 dirs individually
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09:08<petn-randall>g00se: I assume because --file-from actually limits the files that get synced.
09:08<petn-randall>--files-from even
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09:10<g00se>Maybe it should have been Documents/* ?
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09:13*g00se has a complete love/hate with rysnc
09:13<g00se>Are files-from patterns like include file patterns – who knows?
09:13<petn-randall>g00se: `rsync -av yoursource/ yourdestination` is how most people use it.
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09:14<g00se>Yeah, it's easy when you use it in a simple way ;)
09:14<petn-randall>g00se: There's a whole section in the man page explaining how --files-from works.
09:15<g00se>I'll check it again
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09:18<g00se>Actually there's blurb on files-from but very little if nothing on the actual content of the files-from file
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09:20<petn-randall>g00se: "The filenames that are read from the FILE are all relative to the source dir -- any leading slashes are removed and no ".." references are allowed to go higher than the source dir."
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09:22<g00se>I'm using trailing slashes (to indicate directories)
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09:24<petn-randall>g00se: And you're explicitely using -r?
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09:25<g00se>Well i'm using -a which afaicr includes -r
09:26*g00se better check ;)
09:26*g00se is correct
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09:27*g00se can say one thing: Documents/* throws an error
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09:28<petn-randall>g00se: Both -a and --files-from explicitely say that -r is not implied when using both -a and --files-from.
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09:29<g00se>Ah. SOrry - missed that
09:29<petn-randall>That's also why I said you should read it. :)
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09:38<EmleyMoor>This is barely believable... I just rescheduled a UPS delivery from tomorrow to Monday, not 15 minutes ago. It just arrived!
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10:10<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: #debian-offtopic is that way -->
10:11<EmleyMoor>Erk, indeed
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10:26<g00se>petn-randall: Thanks for the help :)
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11:01<ChmEarl>trying to debootstrap impish in pbuilder, getting: uses unknown compression for member 'control.tar.zst', giving up
11:01<ChmEarl>google says dpkg has no zst support?
11:02<ChmEarl>impish: ubuntu-21.10
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11:02<petn-randall>ChmEarl: What OS release is your host system?
11:02<ChmEarl>petn-randall, bullseye
11:02<ChmEarl>deb 11.1
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11:03<petn-randall>ChmEarl: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=892664
11:03<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/892664 in dpkg (open, patch, moreinfo): «dpkg: Please add decompression support for zstd»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2018-03-11; last modified: 2021-08-12.
11:04<ChmEarl>petn-randall, ty going to check the link
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11:05<ChmEarl>petn-randall, maybe another bad omen about the direction of Ubuntu, especially after the lz4 kernel compression in focal
11:06*petn-randall shrugs.
11:06<petn-randall>Not that Debian and Ubuntu were in any way compatible before.
11:07<ChmEarl>petn-randall, surprised that I can't add a hook to dpkg, like I can in tar -Ipzstd
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11:18<ChmEarl>petn-randall, did a debootstrap of impish separate from pbuilder in focal and it worked
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11:20<petn-randall>That doesn't suprise me, as Ubuntu has zstd support in dpkg.
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11:26<ChmEarl>petn-randall, I can still run pbuilder in Bullseye once I import the chroot from focal, I suppose
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13:53<sumGuy>hello
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13:55<sumGuy>I'm trying to install debian via a usb stick. I needed to add some firmware to the firmware folder on the usb(so it's detected during install). But the partition is write protected. Does anyone know how to mount/modify it so that I can write it?
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13:59<sarnold>sumGuy: just to try to cover the bases, did you use the free or the non-free image? your problem might be solved by switching to the non-free image
14:00<petn-randall>!firmware installer
14:00<dpkg>Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>.
14:01<sumGuy>petn-randall, I'm already installing by usb and I only have one. So I'd like to be able to just use the one. However, I cannot write the usb. I tried gparted but it says "The driver descriptor says the physical block size is 2048 bytes, but Linux says it is 512 bytes"
14:02<petn-randall>!firmware images
14:02<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>.
14:02<petn-randall>sumGuy: You probably want those ^^^
14:02<petn-randall>sumGuy: If you add the firmware to the libre installer, you'll need a second usb stick.
14:04<somiaj>Note, you can also choose to install a base system, and then add firmware afterwards as well
14:06<petn-randall>I'm assuming they need working wifi, which seems to be the norm nowadays with these young kids. Back in MY day we installed Debian from floppies!
14:06<petn-randall>. o O ( old man yells at cloud )
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14:09<somiaj>Me too, I'm just pointing out that you don't need working wifi (or network) to install a base system with the netinstall
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14:09<somiaj>Thus you can deal with adding firmware and getting your wifi up after you have a base system installed and not from the installer
14:10<somiaj>I tend to do this anyways, since I like to start all of my installs from the base vs running tasksel
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16:17<jcbjoe2021>Is oftc the official Debian support channel? Why does libera have a Debian channel also?
16:17<sl4pfuc1nsrup1d>hiya i am having a problem with an update for my nic drivers on my OS how do i set it to just use the original drivers
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16:20<towo`>what is "my nic drivers"? what is "the original drivers"? you shold be more precise
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16:24<blast007>sl4pfuc1nsrup1d: and what is "my OS" ?
16:24<freq>older sister
16:24<freq>err
16:24<freq>operating system
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16:26<somiaj>jcbjoe2021: There is a large community in libera, so we have a channel there to share resources (such as bots) and to be a part of it to ensure community standards.
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16:26<somiaj>basically if we didn't also work with a channel over there, one would most likely form anyways, and this way debian has input on it
16:26<somiaj>(well the debian irc community)
16:27<keir>jcbjoe2021: look at you branching out
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16:30<jcbjoe2021>Lol
16:30<jcbjoe2021>Everywhere :P
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16:34<keir>;)
16:34<freq>https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/freq?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=301_Linux.tar.gz
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20:00<freq>arifendronugroho: longer name plz
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20:01<sarnold>I'm sure you could stuff a dozen underscores in there..
20:01<rican-linux>I have question regarding systemd-nspawn containers running in Debian. There a specific channel I need to goto?
20:04<sarnold>not that I know of, it's probably fine to ask here
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20:10<rican-linux>@sarnold, I am trying to get GPU acceleration to work. I am running jellyfin in a debian container and would like to use hardware encoding. I have bound /dev/dri to the container but I think I am missing something. My config files are here: https://pastebin.com/QHHtBGY4
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20:14<sarnold>rican-linux: I'm not very familiar with this .. a few thoughts, I hope they are useful :) (a) are those $XAUTH etc sort of things in the ExecStart going to work? in a systemd unit file I wrote a while back, I've got ${FOO} style instead ..
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20:14<sarnold>rican-linux_: I'm not very familiar with this .. a few thoughts, I hope they are useful :) (a) are those $XAUTH etc sort of things in the ExecStart going to work? in a systemd unit file I wrote a while back, I've got ${FOO} style instead ..
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20:16<sarnold>rican-linux_: that XAUTH and DISPLAY .. I see DISPLAY is set in the jellyfin.nspawn file, is that going to actually set the environment variable on the command line?
20:18<sarnold>rican-linux_: and, finally, ExecStart=/usr/bin/systemd-nspawn -- I'm surprised to see a systemd command used in the ExecStart directive -- is that the usual way of using systemd-nspawn? There's no instances of 'ExecStart' in my systemd-nspawn manpage, so I'm skeptical that'll work
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20:22<twb>systemd-nspawn questions can go to #systemd on Libera
20:23<sarnold>oh that's probably a good idea, yeah
20:23<sarnold>am I still in there? I dunno.. it's either real quiet or I ignored the channel. it might be real quiet.
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20:24<twb>FWIW I would probably get them to allow the entire device class
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20:25<sarnold>rican-linux_: oh, yet another third thought, dpes "DeviceAllow=/dev/shm rw" make sense? I don't really think of /dev/shm as a device..
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20:27<twb>"DeviceAllow=/dev/shm" doesn't make sense. That's not a device, it's a tmpfs. You'd need ReadWritePaths=
20:27<twb>Something like "DeviceAllow=char-drm" will allow all /dev/drm/* type devices
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20:28<twb>That's matching based on /proc/devices entry "226 drm" and ls -l /dev/drm** --> cr... 226, ...
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20:39<twb>What's the right way to open an application by its /usr/share/applications/XXX.desktop name?
20:39<twb>I thought I could do "xdg-open XXX" or something...
20:40<twb>"xdg-open /usr/share/applications/org.gnome.Calculator.desktop" opens the .desktop file in a text editor.
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20:44<somiaj>hmm, looks like some call that a bug, others say working as intended, but this has some info
20:44<somiaj>https://askubuntu.com/questions/5172/running-a-desktop-file-in-the-terminal
20:44<somiaj>,i gtk-launch
20:45<judd>No package named 'gtk-launch' was found in bullseye/amd64.
20:45<sussudio>,v gtk-launch
20:45<judd>No package named 'gtk-launch' was found in amd64.
20:45<somiaj>gtk-launch is suggested and is part of the libgtk-3-bin package
20:45<somiaj>there is also a tiny python script in there you can use
20:45<sarnold>on focal libgtk-3-bin: /usr/bin/gtk-launch
20:46<sussudio>,i gmrun
20:46<judd>Package gmrun (x11, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Featureful CLI-like GTK+ application launcher. Version: 0.9.2-3; Size: 43.7k; Installed: 123k; Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gmrun/; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/gmrun
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20:57<freq>bahamat: sasamat
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21:15<jeb>How do I copy text from terminal to for example email.
21:16<sarnold>typically you can select text from a terminal by holding down the left mouse button while dragging from one end to the other
21:16<sarnold>and you paste into your text editor with middle mouse button or shift+insert
21:17<twb>In MacOS I think you could say "open -a Emacs" and it'd run /Applications/Emacs.d/
21:17<twb>WHich is what xdg-open is a shit clone of
21:17<twb>But yeah it looks like gtk-launch is the way to go
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21:20<sarnold>twb: maybe there's something you can steal from https://man.archlinux.org/man/community/i3-wm/i3-dmenu-desktop.1.en ?
21:20<jeb>Yes, that worked. Thanks.
21:21<jeb>Why doesn't it work inside a vim editor?
21:22<sarnold>I use that in vim a few hundred times a day..
21:22<sarnold>but one machine I ssh into has completely busted paste, I wonder ..
21:22<jeb>ok, I must be missing something
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21:25<sarnold>hrm :( I can't figure out what that host is doing different
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21:30<Blondie101010>you ssh into hundreds of machines per day? you have a really weird job or boss
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21:31<sarnold>hah, no, I copy/paste into and out of vim all the time
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21:31<Blondie101010>the first thing that comes to mind with that problem description, is the stupid vim mouse support
21:32<Blondie101010>I disable that as soon as I notice it
21:32<sarnold>is that something you have to disable?
21:32<mason>yes
21:32<mason>set mouse=""
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21:34<mason>sarnold: :help mouse inside of vim
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21:37<Blondie101010>sarnold: but if you really open vim a hundred times in a day, it might be time to learn to do things more optimally
21:37<Blondie101010>like dealing with centralized configs, or using sed
21:39<sarnold>mason, Blondie101010: perfect! for some reason, on that remote host, mouse="a"! hooray :D thanks
21:40<sarnold>Blondie101010: heh, some days I'll read through thousands of files..
21:40<rican-linux_>All thanks for the feedback. I will update and report back
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21:44<sarnold>good luck :)
21:46<jeb>The mouse="" cmd worked. Thanks.
21:47<rican-linux_>@sarnold, here is where I got the XAUTH part https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd-nspawn#Avoiding_xhost
21:47<jojojonas>hey guys! i need some help! (I guess that's why i am here) I have some experience with linux overall and i decided i wanted to try debian for the first time. I installed it via debootstrap. basically i am trying to get my b43 wifi card working but at the moment its not. I have the card BCM43228 and i installed the broadcom-sta-dkms with errors (of course lol) basically it is giving me the error which i will paste bin for convenience
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21:49<jojojonas>https://paste.debian.net/1221455
21:50<jojojonas>any ideas of what it could be?
21:50<rican-linux_>@jojojonas, you need to install the non-free firmware, then install the b43 driver
21:50<rican-linux_>it should be in the non-free repo
21:50<sney>jojojonas: you would need to boot into your new system so that /dev is correctly populated
21:50<rican-linux_>then modprobe -r b43 ; modprobe b43
21:51<sney>rican-linux_: b43 doesn't support all broadcom b43 devices, and in this case that won't fix it anyway because this is a chroot
21:51<rican-linux_>ah
21:51<rican-linux_>@sney, ok
21:52<sney>jojojonas: finish the install, install your bootloader, boot into debian, and then you will be able to use debian
21:52<jojojonas>oh! okay cool! but the thing is i don't have access to internet on it which is why i did it in chroot from my current distro (gentoo)
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21:52<jojojonas>oh okay cool! thanks sney!
21:52<jojojonas>i will see if it works!
21:52<sney>jojojonas: you have the package downloaded in the chroot, so you won't need a network connection to finish this process
21:53<jojojonas>cool! okay!
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21:53<sney>!mentions
21:53<dpkg>'@name' style mentions, common on social media and newer chat platforms, are not part of IRC. Most IRC clients ignore this kind of highlight. If you want to get someone's attention on IRC, don't @ them, simply type their nick at the beginning of the line. And while we have your attention, make sure that you read the <channel topic>.
21:56<sarnold>rican-linux: aha! that's cool. man that arch wiki has everything :)
21:57<rican-linux>sarnold, yeah it does. sadly it did not help me here. I can see the dri devices in the container but i cannot ainfo w/o crashing
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22:07<jonasjojoo>hey guys! i am back! i rebooted into the system and reinstalled the broadcom-sta-dkms package. and when i load the modprobe wl command it returns the error "FATAL: Module wl not found in directory /lib/modules/4.19.0-0.bpo.18-amd64"
22:07<jonasjojoo>any ideas?
22:08<sney>read the output from when you installed broadcom-sta-dkms, it will tell you why the build failed
22:09<jonasjojoo>how do i do that?
22:09<jonasjojoo>when i rebooted the system and installed it there were no erros
22:09<jonasjojoo>**errors
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22:10<jonasjojoo>and running iwconfig reads "enp1s0 no wireless extensions"
22:10<sney>not always obviously "errors" you just have to look at what it's doing.
22:11<sney>if there is *truly* nothing in the apt output, you can look in /var/lib/dkms/ for the make.log instead. (it will be a few subdirectories deep, but there should only be one.)
22:11<sney>yes, obviously, iwconfig will not show you an interface if the driver has not loaded yet...
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22:14<jonasjojoo>okay soo i loaded my apt output and there is this error "Module build for this kernel 4.19.0-0.bpo.18-amd64 was skipped since the kernel headers for this kernel does not seem to be installed"
22:14<jonasjojoo>so do i install the kernel headers?
22:14<sney>yes. you need kernel headers any time you build a driver with dkms.
22:15<jonasjojoo>okay! sorry! i am new to debian! but i am learning!
22:15<sney>the dkms package Recommends linux-headers-amd64, so normally this is automatic, but sometimes people disable recommends without understanding how much they are going to break things.
22:15<jonasjojoo>ohh
22:15<jonasjojoo>okay
22:16<jonasjojoo>so basically i just need to chroot into it
22:16<jonasjojoo>and install the kernel headers
22:16<sney>yes, though why are you using such an old debian version to have a 4.19 kernel from backports?
22:17<jonasjojoo>i don't know
22:17<jonasjojoo>this is what i was wondering
22:17<sney>that sounds like debian 9, current stable is debian 11
22:17<jonasjojoo>yeah
22:17<sney>did you follow some howto from 4 years ago? google loves to recommend that stuff for some reason
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22:18<jonasjojoo>i was doing this documentation https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/apds03.html.en
22:18<jonasjojoo>and i followed this command here "apt search linux-image"
22:18<sney>aha yeah, you want bullseye. https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/apds03.en.html
22:19<jonasjojoo>whattttt
22:19<jonasjojoo>wow
22:19<jonasjojoo>i can't believe google did that
22:19<jonasjojoo>that's probably all it is then
22:19<sney>you should not need any newer kernels than the stock one in bullseye, unless this hardware is *extremely* cutting edge
22:19<jonasjojoo>i am going to install the newest version lol
22:20<jonasjojoo>true true and no i don't think so lol
22:20<jonasjojoo>okay well thx for you help!
22:20<sney>the steps are still the same though, for your b43 device you either need the firmware or the dkms driver, and for the dkms driver you will still need your headers, so make sure recommends is on
22:20<jonasjojoo>yep!
22:20<sney>np, you'll probably get it this time
22:20<jonasjojoo>its funny i did the same thing with gentoo.. i installed the 32 bit version instead of the 64bit lol
22:21<jonasjojoo>basically sort of the same thing
22:21<jonasjojoo>like a older version
22:21<jonasjojoo>yep i hope so!
22:21<jonasjojoo>thx for your help!
22:21<sney>np.
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22:42<jcbjoe2021>sney: how do you find current info for Debian 11 normally when I google I type Debian <syntax here > or google site:wiki.Debian.org <syntax here> that's all I got it is my first install of Debian yesterday but that is that I would type and search
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22:46<sney>I don't use google a lot with debian because I can find the links I need directly, but using that method, if you find something that seems relevant but is older, you can go a few levels up and find what you're looking for
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22:47<sney>like with jojo's example from earlier, if you started from https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/apds03.en.html you could get from there to debian.org/releases just by erasing part of the url, and there's stable at the top
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23:40<anon8947>preseed installation mode seems to get that ScreenInit error problem. What would cause that?
23:41<anon8947>I got Packer to work around that by choosing the non-graphical boot option before adding the kernel arguments, but I'm wondering what caused my earlier issue.
23:42<sney>preseed having issues with the graphical installer isn't too surprising
23:43<anon8947>Ah, so it could be purely a bad interaction between the two?
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23:44<sney>yeah, it's not a common combination so there's all kinds of chance for weirdness aiui
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23:46<anon8947>Ah, good to know. It might be worth adding a note to the Debian manual's preseeding section about that.
23:46<sney>since you've experienced it, feel free to email debian-doc
23:47-!-Kruppt [~Kruppt@50-111-48-108.drhm.nc.frontiernet.net] has quit []
23:48<anon8947>I took note to do so, will get around to doing it later.
---Logclosed Wed Dec 01 00:00:26 2021