| --- | Log | opened Fri Dec 03 00:00:29 2021 |
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| 00:06 | <yanmaani> | tried. if I just do upgrade it looks fine |
| 00:06 | <yanmaani> | if I try to install a single package it's broken |
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| 00:12 | <anon8947> | I think you'll need to wait for wizards that delved into deeper wisdom than I. |
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| 00:57 | <r4fkramer> | Hi all Please, as stupid as it may seem to some, I have the following question: can I remove libreoffice from my debian without risking removing important or vital dependencies for other applications in Mate DE ? |
| 00:58 | <r4fkramer> | I ask this because libreoffice is installed by default in the mate interface, it is not an additional program that I installed after installing the OS. |
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| 01:06 | <alexrelis> | r4fkramer: If you run an `apt purge libreoffice` as root, it will tell you which packages apt will remove. |
| 01:07 | <r4fkramer> | alexrelist, thank you for answering. Ok, but is this information displayed enough ? |
| 01:08 | <alexrelis> | According to this, it also seems like Mate doesn't depend on Libreoffice: https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/mate-desktop-environment |
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| 01:09 | <somiaj> | note apt won't remove auto packages with the intial command, but will require autoremove afterwards |
| 01:09 | <r4fkramer> | Fine, alexrelis, I'll read this now. |
| 01:09 | <somiaj> | make sure you look at what would want to be removed, and you can just make other metapackages manual if it wants to take out stuff you don't want |
| 01:09 | <r4fkramer> | despite the name 'libreoffice', it doesn't refer to suite for office libreoffice. |
| 01:10 | <somiaj> | what do you mean? libreoffice is just a metapackage that installs all the libreoffice components. |
| 01:10 | <r4fkramer> | I typed here and it displayed: Package 'libreoffice' is not installed, so not removed |
| 01:10 | <eht> | Is needing to restart after usermod -aG sudo a new thing? |
| 01:10 | <somiaj> | Removing that package won't really do much, not having it installed won't do much either, though it is a common metapackage to pull in |
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| 01:10 | <somiaj> | eht: no |
| 01:10 | <somiaj> | eht: Groups have always been set at the moment you login (authenticate) |
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| 01:11 | <r4fkramer> | So, I need to remove this matepackage |
| 01:11 | <somiaj> | there are some ways to do it without relogging, but they require a bit of trickery and one should just logout/login again after adding a new group. |
| 01:11 | <r4fkramer> | metapackage |
| 01:11 | <eht> | is that moment at the initial disk decryption on boot? |
| 01:11 | <eht> | otherwise wouldn't log out/in suffice? |
| 01:11 | * | eht is just curious |
| 01:11 | <somiaj> | r4fkramer: removing the metapackage wont' remove libreoffice, y ou need to remove the actual packages the metapackage pulls in |
| 01:12 | <somiaj> | eht: it happens at any login(1), via ssh, su, etc |
| 01:12 | <eht> | but logging out after usermod command doesn't work |
| 01:12 | <somiaj> | so if you do su - username, you'll login and be added to th group |
| 01:12 | <eht> | only after restart |
| 01:12 | <eht> | yes if you immedietly su - username it works |
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| 01:13 | <raven523> | are you logging in with ssh? |
| 01:13 | <somiaj> | are you actually logging out (if in a desktop you have to logout back to the display manager) |
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| 01:13 | <eht> | but after you close the terminal and start a new one it does not |
| 01:13 | <r4fkramer> | I'm more confused as before. I just want to remove writer, libreoffice calc, draw, impress, math, calc |
| 01:13 | <somiaj> | but once you add yourself to a group, any login will put you into that group. Any running shells/sessions won't have that group. |
| 01:13 | <eht> | on desktop |
| 01:13 | <eht> | how many other ways are there to log out ? |
| 01:13 | <eht> | (x windows) |
| 01:13 | <somiaj> | that is because you haven't logged out of the desktop, so anything launched by the desktop is being launched by the current session which you haven't loged out of |
| 01:13 | <raven523> | opening a terminal emulator usually doesn't create a new login |
| 01:13 | <somiaj> | just logout back to your display manager |
| 01:14 | <somiaj> | yea, opening a terminal just starts a new shell, there is no new login happening |
| 01:14 | <eht> | right |
| 01:14 | <eht> | but then i log out |
| 01:14 | <eht> | and log in |
| 01:14 | <eht> | and still does not work |
| 01:15 | <eht> | log out desktop, log out terminal |
| 01:15 | <eht> | log back in |
| 01:15 | <raven523> | ar eyou using a display manager or startx? |
| 01:15 | <eht> | no sudo allowed |
| 01:15 | <eht> | display manager. Would I need to kill the x session? |
| 01:16 | <somiaj> | you need to fully logout of your session and get back to your displaymanger, then login again |
| 01:16 | <raven523> | you shouldn't need to. Which display manager? |
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| 01:16 | <raven523> | I mean logging out of the display manager should be sufficient |
| 01:16 | <eht> | it's just a fresh install of the default options |
| 01:16 | <eht> | gnome |
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| 01:17 | <somiaj> | so go to the gnome menu and logout |
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| 01:17 | <somiaj> | this will send you back to your display manager giving you a login screen |
| 01:17 | <eht> | uh huh |
| 01:17 | <eht> | and then log in and it does not work |
| 01:17 | <eht> | until complete restart |
| 01:18 | <eht> | I usually just edit the sudoers file... debian docs suggested usermod -aG sudo username so I gave that a whirl and it's honestly pretty confusing |
| 01:20 | <somiaj> | Debian gives all users in the sudo group full sudo privlages vis the sudoers file (just look at it) |
| 01:20 | <somiaj> | If you want to manually add yourself to the sudoers file via visudo, go ahead, this is just a default setup |
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| 01:20 | <somiaj> | also just don't set a root password at time of the install, you'll be added to the group automatically |
| 01:20 | <eht> | All I am trying to do is understand why using usermod would require a system restart to make the sudo group stick |
| 01:21 | <eht> | I understand the rest of the process |
| 01:21 | <somiaj> | It doesn't, it requires you to relogin |
| 01:21 | <eht> | False |
| 01:21 | <somiaj> | if it isn't working, there is something happening and you aren't fully logging out |
| 01:21 | <eht> | I just went through it on two fresh installs |
| 01:21 | <eht> | Not sure how much more log out i can get then clicking logout |
| 01:22 | <eht> | than* |
| 01:22 | <eht> | unless you are implying i need to kill xserver |
| 01:22 | <eht> | which is equally odd |
| 01:22 | <somiaj> | well gnome uses wayland |
| 01:23 | <eht> | did the same on xfce. does that use wayland? |
| 01:23 | <eht> | (no) |
| 01:24 | <somiaj> | must be something with your setup, as it works as expected here. You are added to groups at the moment you login. You can look at the output of groups to check what groups your current session is in |
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| 01:25 | <eht> | Looks like it might be sudo service that needs to restart |
| 01:25 | <eht> | to avoid reboot |
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| 01:25 | <eht> | Weird |
| 01:26 | <somiaj> | there is no sudo service, it isn't a daemon that runs in the background. |
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| 01:26 | <eht> | Have you never run the service sudo restart command? |
| 01:27 | <eht> | (/usr/bin/sudo) |
| 01:27 | <somiaj> | sudo isn't a default service in debian |
| 01:27 | <somiaj> | It is a binary that allows privalge escillation |
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| 01:28 | <eht> | OK cool so no ideas why usermod is funky and needs a reboot. |
| 01:28 | <somiaj> | well I guess there is a sudo.service -> /dev/null, though not sure why anyone would need a sudo service |
| 01:29 | <eht> | I am just trying to understand usermod |
| 01:29 | <somiaj> | if you are able to 'su - username' and it works, this means it has nothing to do with sudo or usermod |
| 01:29 | <eht> | what does it have to do with |
| 01:29 | <somiaj> | It means that you are not fully logging out and a reset actually just fully logs you out |
| 01:29 | <eht> | again, we're dealing with defaults here |
| 01:29 | <eht> | help me understand what fully logging out is |
| 01:29 | <eht> | if it is not clicking logout |
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| 01:30 | <eht> | is there a second secret super log out button? And why then would usermod need that kind of logout to make the group stick? |
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| 01:32 | <r4fkramer> | alexrelis Your information was decisive for Me to be able to solve the problem here, without fearing the risk of having broken packages later. |
| 01:32 | <somiaj> | You have already been told. Groups are set at the moment you login, so any running sessions will not have the new group. |
| 01:32 | <eht> | yikes |
| 01:32 | <eht> | OKTHEN |
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| 01:33 | <r4fkramer> | alexrelist, Thank you very much for your attention and for the Great Support! :) |
| 01:33 | <jmcnaught> | eht: are you using GDM? In a VM I just changed group membership for my user and logged out then back in and group membership had not been updated. I logged out again, waited 5 seconds, logged in and then group membership was updated. |
| 01:33 | <jmcnaught> | too slow… |
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| 01:33 | <somiaj> | jmcnaught: maybe a systemd user session keeping things around? or maybe for some reason you need to wait to fully logout, that sucks. |
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| 01:34 | <sodo> | i've replaced my laptop's lancard to rtl8723ae |
| 01:34 | <somiaj> | I was just installing this in a vm to see if I can figure it out, but that is strange you have to wait like that. |
| 01:34 | <sodo> | wifi just works fine but i can't search any bluetooth device |
| 01:34 | <jmcnaught> | somiaj: it seems to be logging out and logging back in too quickly does not update group membership (with gdm and GNOME) |
| 01:35 | <sodo> | this was a known issue and there were some solutions(patched driver) |
| 01:35 | <somiaj> | jmcnaught: I wonder if gdm is doing something fancy to not actually need to do a new login(1) |
| 01:35 | <sodo> | but every link i found was deleted |
| 01:35 | <somiaj> | sodo: you have the firmware installed for realtek devices? |
| 01:35 | <sodo> | yes |
| 01:36 | <sodo> | i did(wifi didn't worked before i installed firmware) |
| 01:36 | <somiaj> | I don't use bluetooth, so unsure what else could be going on unfourntally |
| 01:36 | <sodo> | bluetooth was working fine before i changed my lan card |
| 01:37 | <sodo> | so i'd assume it's not the problem of bluetooth stack |
| 01:37 | <somiaj> | Did the predictiable inteface name of your wifi change due to changing the lan card? |
| 01:38 | <sodo> | i don't know what it was before but it's now wlp5s0 |
| 01:38 | <somiaj> | sodo: just wondering if that could have messed with things. |
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| 01:40 | <sodo> | and there was some cases being unable to search bluetooth devices on rtl8723ae reported, just like me |
| 01:40 | <somiaj> | jmcnaught: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1045993/after-adding-a-group-logoutlogin-is-not-enough-in-18-04 -- yea looks like a systemd thing, their solution is to run loginctrl terminate-user to ensure that all the systemd user services are actually killed. So if you go too fast logind probably still has that user logged in, so the user never fully logged out and gdm just nicely uses the old session. How |
| 01:40 | <somiaj> | silly. |
| 01:40 | <somiaj> | superkuh: well isn't rtl8723ae a lan card? Why would it have bluetooth support? |
| 01:40 | <sodo> | it's a combo card |
| 01:40 | <somiaj> | oh, it is a wifi+bluetooth |
| 01:41 | <somiaj> | Yea, it could be just that device has poor bluetooth support in linux. I don't know that device well enough. If you have realtek-firmware installed and it still isn't working, unsure what to do next. |
| 01:41 | <jmcnaught> | somiaj: just waiting a few seconds was enough here for group membership to change |
| 01:41 | <sodo> | seems there was a fix |
| 01:42 | <sodo> | modified driver |
| 01:42 | <sodo> | but i can't find any of them |
| 01:42 | <somiaj> | jmcnaught: yea, seems it takes logind a little bit of time to close all the old systemd login sessions, and gdm just uses the old sessions if they still exist. Again a silly bug, but explains that users frustration |
| 01:42 | <jmcnaught> | Too bad they didn't stick around a few more seconds |
| 01:42 | <sodo> | and if there was a fix |
| 01:43 | <sodo> | why it isn't on debian upstream yet |
| 01:43 | <somiaj> | yea, I was busy installing gnome to test it out too. OH well, maybe I shouldn't have responded so quickly about their misunderstanding of what the problem was. |
| 01:43 | <somiaj> | sodo: debian is a frozen release, new stuff only comes with new releases. |
| 01:43 | <somiaj> | sodo: Do you know what kernel the fix was in? |
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| 01:45 | <sodo> | as i know, there only was patched kernel module source code |
| 01:45 | <somiaj> | ,v firmware-realtek |
| 01:45 | <judd> | Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20210315-3~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20210315-3; bookworm/non-free: 20210818-1; sid/non-free: 20210818-1 |
| 01:45 | <somiaj> | sodo: if it doesn't make it to the offical kernel, it most likely won't make it into debian. |
| 01:45 | <sodo> | i don't know if it was merged to kernel or not |
| 01:45 | <somiaj> | there is a 5.14 kernel in backports you could try to see if that gives you better luck. But it just might be that device has poor bluetooth support |
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| 01:46 | <sodo> | wait ill get some link i saw |
| 01:48 | <sodo> | maybe i just plugged antenna poorly |
| 01:49 | <sodo> | https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=209895 |
| 01:49 | <sodo> | and i saw this link |
| 01:49 | <somiaj> | jmcnaught: yea that is very bizzare. I wonder if it is considered a bug or not |
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| 01:51 | <somiaj> | sodo: unsure why those fixes haven't made it into the linux kernel. Those fixes are 7 years old, so I doubt a newer kernel will help out. |
| 01:52 | <somiaj> | sodo: you could try to see if compiling that module works for you (and can still be compiled against the kernel). But it just appears you got unlucky with the hardware you have |
| 01:52 | <sodo> | but repo link is broken now |
| 01:52 | <somiaj> | It worked for me |
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| 01:54 | <sodo> | oh |
| 01:54 | <sodo> | upper link was broken but bottom one works |
| 01:55 | <somiaj> | ahh yea I just tried the solution |
| 01:55 | <sodo> | u have same card? |
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| 01:56 | -!- | ws2k3 [~yctn@59234cc2.static.cust.trined.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 01:56 | <somiaj> | No, I tried the link in the solution post not the problem post |
| 01:56 | <somiaj> | as I mentioned, I don't use bluetooth in linux (and barely use it on my phone) |
| 02:00 | <sodo> | this seems it's for usb version |
| 02:00 | <sodo> | my one is mpcie |
| 02:01 | <sodo> | before i go to disassemble, replug my antenna |
| 02:01 | <sodo> | is there a way i can get some info about my bluetooth adapter? |
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| 02:03 | -!- | yanmaani is "yanmaani" on #debian #namecoin-dev #namecoin #tor-project #tor |
| 02:04 | <sodo> | https://imgur.com/DUp06HX.png |
| 02:04 | <sodo> | while trying random stuffs |
| 02:05 | <sodo> | it suddenly started to work after i typed in scan on |
| 02:05 | <somiaj> | maybe it was toggled off for some reason. |
| 02:05 | <sodo> | idk why was it off |
| 02:06 | <sodo> | but this toggle wasn't accessible on blueman |
| 02:06 | <sodo> | (i'm a fan of gui) |
| 02:07 | <sodo> | i'll check if it still works after i reboot and submit an issue on blueman |
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| 02:10 | -!- | mrwick is "mrwick" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 02:10 | -!- | arndot is "Arndt Heuvel,,," on #debian |
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| 02:14 | -!- | chele is "chele" on #mesonbuild #debian-next #debian |
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| 02:21 | -!- | _Matth_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next |
| 02:28 | -!- | heiserhorn is "Michele Cane" on #oftc #debian-next |
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| 02:29 | -!- | awal1 is "realname" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-next #debian |
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| 02:29 | -!- | seednode6 is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux |
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| 02:31 | -!- | BenNZ is "Ben" on #vbox #debian #debian-next |
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| 02:39 | -!- | zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian |
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| 02:39 | -!- | rany is "rany" on #tor #tor-dev #tor-project #debian #debian-offtopic #debian-next #tor-relays #quetzalcoatl-relays |
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| 02:46 | -!- | erle- is "Stephan" on #debian-next #debian #debian-raspberrypi |
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| 02:57 | -!- | mezzo is "mezzo" on #debian #yuming |
| 02:57 | <hudo> | has anyone a running bullseye with working copy&paste with vnc ?? ( using tigervncserver which seems to be the default vncserver ) |
| 02:59 | <hudo> | I upgraded from buster , where copy/paste worked and after upgrade it does not work anymore. Now a second system is in front for upgrading. |
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| 03:04 | -!- | Dresden is "Dresden" on #debian #cxp |
| 03:05 | <tuxd3v> | sodo, maybe you need rfkill package.. |
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| 03:11 | <tuxd3v> | actually wesnoth version, the last is 1.16.1 |
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| 03:13 | -!- | texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #hyprateam #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y |
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| 03:17 | -!- | is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian |
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| 03:23 | -!- | gnugr is "Vangelis Mouhtsis" on #tinycore-lab #oftc #debian-xfce #debian-owncloud #debian-devel-changes #debian #debian-ayatana |
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| 03:26 | -!- | Dresden2 is "Dresden" on #debian #cxp |
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| 03:29 | -!- | live is "realname" on #debian |
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| 03:30 | -!- | menace is "someone" on #tor #bpftrace #debian-raspberrypi #virtualization #retroshare #security #kernelnewbies #linux #virt #freedombox #packaging #debian-ubuntu #debian |
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| 03:34 | -!- | mh3f is "Matthew" on #debian #packaging #debian-raspberrypi #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-social #python |
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| 03:34 | -!- | Slashman is "Slash" on #debian |
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| 03:37 | -!- | is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian |
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| 03:37 | -!- | haligh is "caravanlizzy" on #debian |
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| 03:41 | -!- | arunpyasi is "realname" on #packaging #debian-ubuntu #debian #debian-deepin |
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| 03:47 | -!- | ee2455 is "ee2455" on #debian |
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| 03:54 | -!- | emilioj is "Emilio J. Padrón" on #debian #packaging |
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| 03:55 | -!- | Dresden is "Dresden" on #debian #cxp |
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| 03:58 | -!- | m_g_lewis is "Melvin T. Glenn Lewis" on #debian |
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| 04:00 | -!- | chele is "chele" on #debian #debian-next #mesonbuild |
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| 04:12 | -!- | is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian |
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| 04:13 | -!- | Debian11_EF is "Debian11_EF" on #debian |
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| 04:13 | -!- | emilioj is "Emilio J. Padrón" on #debian #packaging |
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| 04:15 | -!- | ao2 is "ao2" on #linux-media #gstreamer #vcs-home #debian #cell |
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| 04:21 | -!- | brokencycle is "no such user" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 04:31 | -!- | otisolsen70 is "realname" on #vbox #bash #debian-nordic #debian #packaging |
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| 04:32 | -!- | devil is "devil" on #siduction-admin #debian-nginx #siduction-art #kanotix #iwd #debian #debian-next |
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| 04:49 | -!- | jmux is "Jan-Marek Glogowski" on #debian |
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| 05:03 | -!- | Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-next |
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| 05:05 | -!- | Mezz is "Mezz" on @#gemu #ceph #biz #aqi-data-share #debian #debian-xfce #packaging #Qubes_OS #freedombox #llvm #moocows #virt #help #publiclab #kvm #redditprivacy #alpine-linux #oftc |
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| 05:08 | -!- | tzf is "tzf" on #😺 #🍥 #debian-indian-food #debian-idiots #debian #3hg #nakedeb |
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| 05:18 | -!- | Slashman is "Slash" on #debian |
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| 05:20 | -!- | kalamaja is "kalamaja" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 05:26 | -!- | kali_ is "realname" on #debian |
| 05:27 | <kali_> | Sup |
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| 05:45 | -!- | aev is "Aulis Vainionpää" on #moocows #oftc #tor-project #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian |
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| 05:53 | -!- | minimal is "minimal" on #debian #debian-raspberrypi #fdroid #ansible-community #vmdb2 #alpine-reproducible #ifupdown-ng #s6 #musl-distros #musl #alpine-security #alpine-offtopic #alpine-linux #alpine-infra #alpine-docs #alpine-commits #alpine-cloud #alpine-devel |
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| 05:54 | -!- | berkhan is "Berkhan Berkdemir" on #debian |
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| 06:11 | -!- | Viejito-Loco is "realname" on #debian |
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| 06:11 | -!- | dselect is "dpkg backup readonly db" on #debian |
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| 06:19 | -!- | czesmir_ is "Stefan" on #linux #debian-next #debian |
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| 06:27 | -!- | downtrip is "downtrip" on #suckless #debian-next #debian |
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| 06:31 | -!- | berkhan is "Berkhan Berkdemir" on #debian |
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| 06:32 | -!- | wytchmaster is "Andreas " on #debian |
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| 06:47 | -!- | eugen is "Ievgenii Meshcheriakov" on #debian-kde #debian |
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| 07:32 | <Pete77> | Hello, i want to ask if it is possible to run sid "very stable"? |
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| 07:36 | <Anarka> | isnt testing enough ? |
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| 07:39 | <Pete77> | i heard that testing ist a bit more actual than release but has no security patches, and sid is way more actual and then without security patches, sid is more secure and less vulnerable than testing |
| 07:39 | <Pete77> | but i don't know if this is correct |
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| 07:41 | <bremner> | Pete77: #debian-next is there for this discussion |
| 07:41 | <bremner> | basically there is no free lunch, every choice is a tradeoff |
| 07:41 | <Pete77> | thank you than i switch to debian-next |
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| 07:47 | <Pete77> | oh i cannot sent to debian-next cause not regisetered, why registered is need for debian-next, but not for main debian? |
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| 07:50 | <Anarka> | hard to trust ppl running testing/sid :p |
| 07:52 | <Pete77> | is a little unnecessary if you have a few small questions before you want to change that you have to register... |
| 07:52 | <Pete77> | i mean before i want to change the distribution |
| 07:52 | <Pete77> | maybe here are also ppl that could answer my question from debian-next? |
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| 07:55 | <bremner> | Pete77: you should just register. It is often useful. |
| 07:56 | <Pete77> | i register if i stay on debian, there is not another channel here i use on oftc and i really hate to create accounts and passworts for every tiny bit, i actual have to create much accounts for bug reports for every app i use, then no need of more atm |
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| 07:59 | <baka> | i need help |
| 08:00 | <bremner> | !ask |
| 08:00 | <dpkg> | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 08:00 | <baka> | i just downloaded debian cinnamon 11.1 but i dont know how to get the wifi drivers runing |
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| 08:01 | <Pete77> | is it possible to use bookworm and what is anohter repository tree than unstalbe und testing? |
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| 08:01 | <bremner> | baka: what is the wifi hardware, do you know? |
| 08:01 | <baka> | broadcom is the manufature of the card |
| 08:02 | <bremner> | !broadcom |
| 08:02 | <dpkg> | Broadcom Corporation is an integrated circuits supplier. For wireless LAN chipset drivers, ask me about <b43>, <brcmsmac>, <rndis_wlan>, <wl>. For Ethernet controller support, ask me about <bnx2>, <bnx2x>, <tg3>. For hybrid Bluetooth firmware not available elsewhere ask me about <bcmhybridbt>. |
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| 08:02 | <Pete77> | i mean is bookworm another repository three then unstable or testing? |
| 08:02 | <bremner> | Pete77: no |
| 08:03 | <bremner> | baka: hopefully some broadcom user will jump in, but maybe start with "lspci" in a terminal, look for more clues about the specific hardware |
| 08:03 | <Pete77> | then bookworm is testing, and unstalbe sid as usual? |
| 08:03 | <Anarka> | bookworm is the name of the next debian stable, atm bookworm and testing is the same |
| 08:03 | <Anarka> | yes |
| 08:03 | <Pete77> | okay thanks |
| 08:03 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: Note that if you upgrade to bookworm, you're expected to beta-test it, and any expectations of having a working system go out the window. |
| 08:05 | <baka> | https://imgur.com/a/sQAZU1d |
| 08:05 | <baka> | on linux mint i was able to install it on the drivers aplication |
| 08:06 | <Pete77> | petn-randall: i saw many videos they said that sid is not that worse and same or maybe more stable than like arch linux as a rolling release, and now i want do ask what the experience is here from user that uses it as daily driver |
| 08:07 | <petn-randall> | IMHO if you "watch videos" on Debian sid that's already a bad start. |
| 08:08 | <Pete77> | a bad start for what? |
| 08:08 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: It's not a rolling release. It may break any time, and it's up to you to debug the issue, file a bug report, and find a solution. |
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| 08:10 | <petn-randall> | !moving target |
| 08:10 | <dpkg> | Sure, testing might be shinier than stable, but are you prepared to be continually updating your system? Things that worked today will break tomorrow. Configuration file formats will change and you'll have to fold your changes in yet again. Testing is a moving target and if you'd rather work *with* your computer than working *on* your computer, you might not want that. See <testing security>. |
| 08:10 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: If you actual goal is to have newer software, I'd rather go with stable + backports. |
| 08:10 | <petn-randall> | *your |
| 08:10 | <Pete77> | well than it is not as smooth as like arch or rawhide? |
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| 08:13 | <Pete77> | dpkg: at the moment i have 20-30 update per day, and if o don't update a week, maybe 500-600 sometimes |
| 08:13 | <dpkg> | You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, Pete77 |
| 08:13 | <Pete77> | also an sysetmwide upgrade every week |
| 08:13 | <Pete77> | i use tumbleweed since 10 years and never had a problem that it breaks or i wasn't able to fix |
| 08:14 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: Yes, which is why looking at videos is a bad start for educating yourself about Debian testing. |
| 08:14 | <Pete77> | also it shipped the newest of the newest software |
| 08:14 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: If you want to upgrade to testing to help with triaging and fixing bugs, I'd say go ahead. |
| 08:14 | <Pete77> | but then maybe the difference is that distros and arch are maintained and sid not right? |
| 08:15 | <Pete77> | sorry for the type: i mean that then the difference is that distros like arch or tumbleweed are maintained, but sid not? |
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| 08:15 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: sid is maintained. Just not with the guarantees you might expect. |
| 08:17 | <Pete77> | dpkg: sorry what do you mean by this that i am #1 to send an unparseable request? my english is not that good and the translation doesn't make sense to me |
| 08:17 | <dpkg> | that's too long, Pete77 |
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| 08:17 | <Pete77> | what do you mean? |
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| 08:19 | <Pete77> | dpkg what is too long? |
| 08:19 | <dpkg> | I think you lost me on that one, Pete77 |
| 08:19 | <grove> | Pete77: dpkg is a robot |
| 08:19 | <Pete77> | oh and how sould i know this? |
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| 08:20 | <petn-randall> | !are you a bot |
| 08:20 | <dpkg> | I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse). |
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| 08:20 | <petn-randall> | You could notice that dpkg responds in 0.01s to your questions, faster than any human can type. |
| 08:21 | <grove> | Most people (even thse who dome here) don't know, and don't need to know |
| 08:21 | <Pete77> | not if i don't look to the screen after i write something to drik my coffee sereval times |
| 08:22 | <petn-randall> | Anyways, now you know. |
| 08:22 | <Pete77> | yes ^^ thanks for the hint |
| 08:23 | <Pete77> | okay than sid is maintained but maybe not as i expect like from other rolling release.. |
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| 08:23 | <Pete77> | and testing is fine at all? also no security problem cause it is in the middle of actual package without patches? |
| 08:23 | <grove> | But apart from timing, I would guess your best shot at figuring it out is trying to talk to it and realise that it is far from passing the Turing test |
| 08:23 | <petn-randall> | Yes, since it's not a rolling release. It's a bunch of packages that compiled fine on someone's computer, and through rigorous testing they end up migrating to testing. |
| 08:24 | <Pete77> | grove in chat, random ppl say random thinkgs with only parts what you asked or somethines unrelated topic ;-) |
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| 08:25 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: testing will not always get timely security updates, sometimes a library needs to migrate first, and that has RC bugs, so sometimes you wait a month or three on a fix. |
| 08:26 | <petn-randall> | Pete77: and sometimes sid will not get a timely security update, either, because the maintainer is working on larger changes of the package. The security team only covers stable. |
| 08:26 | <Pete77> | and before an release testing (and also sid) is freezed too right? |
| 08:27 | <Pete77> | maybe during a release it is the worst about security to use sid and testing.. |
| 08:27 | <grove> | I don't go in many chat rooms, maybe my expecation of how many people would pass the Turing test is a bit outdated - I think this is moving off-topic |
| 08:27 | <petn-randall> | !freeze |
| 08:27 | <dpkg> | In the final stages of a release's testing cycle, a series of increasingly restrictive "freezes" are enforced, preventing various kinds of changes, in order to focus on getting the release into shape. |
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| 08:28 | <Pete77> | grove my english is very basic, i don't regocnize tometimes if one talks to me or not and what he means, if i don't understand and he/it pings me, i ask what he means, and if i don't see the timing cause i drink coffee, no change for me ti immediataly see it is a bot |
| 08:29 | <Pete77> | also i don't really understand why and what do you want to say to me |
| 08:29 | <Pete77> | let us keep topic best |
| 08:29 | <wwallace> | Hello: I am unable to mount a windows share from command line: |
| 08:29 | <wwallace> | oot@Inspiron:~# mount -t cifs -o username=wwallace //10.2.0.156:/Documents /mnt/Documents/ |
| 08:29 | <wwallace> | mount error: could not resolve address for 10.2.0.156:: Unknown error |
| 08:30 | <grove> | Try without the : |
| 08:30 | <wwallace> | Ok Thank you. |
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| 08:30 | <petn-randall> | wwallace: You probably want smb:// and without :, not sure though. |
| 08:30 | <Pete77> | Well at all we could close the topic, thans for all the help, i understand now that i don't want to use testing and sid |
| 08:31 | <wwallace> | grove it worked. |
| 08:31 | <wwallace> | Thanks. |
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| 08:31 | <Pete77> | and about stable and backport some app, is this then suggested? is there a howto/guide how it works? |
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| 08:34 | <petn-randall> | !debian-backports |
| 08:34 | <dpkg> | backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <bullseye backports>) and oldstable (<buster backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>. |
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| 08:38 | <Pete77> | thanks petn-randall, i read that it is not recommended to use to much from backports, some package maybe. What if i want to use the whole new kde desktop, then maybe some stuff also breaks? |
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| 08:58 | -!- | cowboypenguin is "Cowboy Penguin" on #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian |
| 09:06 | -!- | demo [~demo@11.34.104.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #debian |
| 09:06 | -!- | demo is "realname" on #debian |
| 09:06 | <demo> | mo |
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| 09:07 | -!- | ccallahan is "Chance Callahan" on @#chs #debian |
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| 09:10 | -!- | ymusachio is "Yuri Musachio" on #debian |
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| 09:20 | -!- | leonardorocha is "realname" on #debian |
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| 09:23 | -!- | neemeesiis is "nemesis" on #alpine-linux #apertium #C #ceph #debian #fdroid #i2p #linux #oftc #OpenBSD #perl #retroshare |
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| 09:34 | -!- | tzf is "tzf" on #😺 #🍥 #debian-indian-food #debian-idiots #debian #3hg #nakedeb |
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| 09:37 | -!- | baka is "realname" on #debian |
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| 09:38 | -!- | is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian |
| 09:39 | -!- | themetz [~beaker@cpe-173-174-144-18.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #debian |
| 09:39 | -!- | themetz is "Brian Metzler" on #debian |
| 09:39 | -!- | greknod is now known as Guest7460 |
| 09:39 | -!- | greknod [~grek@0002cc1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian |
| 09:39 | -!- | greknod is "nod" on #debian |
| 09:39 | <baka> | i have to build the driver |
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| 09:43 | -!- | rGr45 is "realname" on #debian #linuxmint #alpine-linux #alpine-devel #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos |
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| 09:43 | -!- | zebrag is "inkbottle" on #wayland #debian-offtopic #oftc #debian-kde #debian-next #debian #kernelnewbies |
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| 09:46 | -!- | neo is "Neo" on #debian |
| 09:47 | -!- | neo is now known as Guest7461 |
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| 09:47 | -!- | Ericounet is "realname" on #debian #freedombox |
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| 09:48 | -!- | is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian |
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| 09:50 | -!- | neo_ is "Neo" on #debian |
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| 09:55 | -!- | baka is "realname" on #debian |
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| 09:57 | -!- | marcello42 is "mp" on #debian |
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| 09:58 | -!- | is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian |
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| 09:59 | -!- | output is "realname" on #debian |
| 09:59 | <baka> | anyone wana help |
| 10:00 | <baka> | with the wifi issue |
| 10:00 | <cc> | !ask |
| 10:00 | <dpkg> | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 10:02 | -!- | Strom [strom@strom.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian |
| 10:02 | -!- | Strom is "Strom" on #virt #tor-project #tor #pipewire #openttd #kernelnewbies #debian-next #debian #alpine-linux |
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| 10:02 | -!- | Mezz_ is "Mezz" on #gemu #ceph #biz #aqi-data-share #debian #debian-xfce #packaging #Qubes_OS #freedombox #llvm #moocows #virt #help #publiclab #kvm #redditprivacy #alpine-linux #oftc |
| 10:04 | <baka> | "I have a problem with getting wifi drgivers; I'm runnin Debian version 11.1. When I try to do look for the option to connect to wifiI get the following output there is no option to connect . I expected it to have the option to connect to wifi. |
| 10:04 | -!- | themetz [~beaker@cpe-173-174-144-18.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
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| 10:04 | -!- | Mezz__ is "Mezz" on #gemu #ceph #biz #aqi-data-share #debian #debian-xfce #packaging #Qubes_OS #freedombox #llvm #moocows #virt #help #publiclab #kvm #redditprivacy #alpine-linux #oftc |
| 10:04 | <cc> | which wifi card do you have? |
| 10:05 | -!- | realtime-neil [~realtime-@76.24.118.23] has left #debian [Leaving] |
| 10:05 | <cc> | its PCI id or USB id |
| 10:05 | -!- | output [~loek@2001:1c04:2b23:d900:dea6:32ff:fe59:933c] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:05 | -!- | trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian |
| 10:05 | -!- | trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian |
| 10:06 | <baka> | i have a Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43228 802.11a/b/g/n driver |
| 10:06 | <baka> | i ment card |
| 10:09 | <cc> | try https://wiki.debian.org/wl |
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| 10:11 | -!- | ethan is "Ethan Harris" on #debian |
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| 10:13 | -!- | khalid is "Khalid Aziz" on #debian |
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| 10:13 | -!- | themetz is "Brian Metzler" on #debian |
| 10:13 | <baka> | when i try to paste into the terminal it gives me this error [bash: deb: command not found] |
| 10:14 | <selckin> | read the text, don't just copy paste random things in grey |
| 10:15 | -!- | angelbat [~angel@77.75.181.18] has joined #debian |
| 10:15 | -!- | angelbat is "angel" on @#debian-catala #debian-kde #debian |
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| 10:20 | -!- | ethan__ is "Ethan Harris" on #debian |
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| 10:21 | -!- | xowomisterx is "realname" on #debian |
| 10:21 | <xowomisterx> | hi |
| 10:22 | <petn-randall> | hi xowomisterx |
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| 10:25 | <xowomisterx> | need help on my |
| 10:25 | <xowomisterx> | Absenic console |
| 10:25 | -!- | _Matth_ [~Matth@170.17.178.217.shared.user.transix.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 10:25 | <petn-randall> | xowomisterx: What is an absenic console? |
| 10:27 | <xowomisterx> | multi-tools hacking whatever i have and sd card 16gb but it dosent boot |
| 10:27 | -!- | hadri [~textual@vpnpool188-103.anst.uu.se] has joined #debian |
| 10:27 | -!- | hadri is "Textual User" on #debian |
| 10:28 | -!- | hadri [~textual@vpnpool188-103.anst.uu.se] has quit [] |
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| 10:28 | <petn-randall> | xowomisterx: I have zero useful google hits on "absenic console", are you sure you spelt it right? |
| 10:28 | -!- | rGr45 [~FE865@92.60.40.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 10:29 | <xowomisterx> | pretty sure heumm maybe / petforu is the right therm |
| 10:30 | -!- | angelbat [~angel@77.75.181.18] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] |
| 10:31 | <petn-randall> | xowomisterx: Another keyword with zero useful hits. Maybe check again what it's called. |
| 10:31 | -!- | menace [~someone@00029bbc.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: menace] |
| 10:31 | -!- | trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P] |
| 10:32 | <xowomisterx> | Anbernic/ RG351p |
| 10:32 | <xowomisterx> | now its good |
| 10:33 | <petn-randall> | xowomisterx: Ok, so that's a video game console similar to gameboy. How is that related to Debian? |
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| 10:33 | -!- | Xaldafax is "X" on #debian #tor #tor-project #debian-raspberrypi #linux |
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| 10:34 | -!- | richardm75 is "realname" on #debian |
| 10:35 | <xowomisterx> | work on debian yes but when i start it ... i search for long time but theres nothing on youtube and on the inthernet |
| 10:36 | <petn-randall> | xowomisterx: What works on Debian? |
| 10:36 | <xowomisterx> | the console!!! |
| 10:37 | <petn-randall> | Ok, congrats. So you do still have a support question? |
| 10:37 | <xowomisterx> | no thanks bro !! |
| 10:38 | <Sqrt{Not}> | SanchoPiensa, (I'm no kind of windows expert at all, but) I think in win 10 there is not necessarily a separate admin user. Usually the only (or first) regular user has admin powers, and just needs to enter its own password when asked. |
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| 10:46 | -!- | chipox is "realname" on #fdroid #security #replicant #debian |
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| 10:46 | -!- | f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian |
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| 10:47 | -!- | Lrrr_ is "François-Denis Gonthier,,," on #debian |
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| 10:48 | -!- | miracolix is "todi" on #debian #debian-gaming #awesomewm |
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| 10:50 | -!- | svedrin is "Michael Ziegler,,," on #debian |
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| 10:52 | -!- | hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 10:53 | -!- | earthundead is "realname" on #debian |
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| 10:54 | -!- | ethan is "Ethan Harris" on #debian |
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| 10:59 | -!- | mbond is "mbond" on #debian |
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| 11:01 | -!- | Xaldafax is "X" on #debian #tor-project #debian-raspberrypi #tor #linux |
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| 11:01 | -!- | EchoesForeAndAft is "Ethan Harris" on #debian |
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| 11:01 | -!- | endstille is "marc.brinkmann@gmail.com" on #debian |
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| 11:02 | -!- | trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian |
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| 11:03 | -!- | illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #dri-devel #radeon #haiku @#oolite-dev #oolite #debianfr #debian |
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| 11:07 | -!- | koalapear is "koalapear" on #debian |
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| 11:08 | -!- | FelixActually is "Felix" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-kde #debian |
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| 11:11 | -!- | Tob__ is "realname" on #debian |
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| 11:11 | -!- | dvs is "realname" on #debian |
| 11:12 | <FelixActually> | Do I have to set up LUKS in detached header mode to back up the headers? |
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| 11:12 | -!- | Debian11_EF is "Debian11_EF" on #debian |
| 11:13 | -!- | dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 11:15 | <petn-randall> | FelixActually: no |
| 11:15 | <FelixActually> | Oh, good |
| 11:15 | <FelixActually> | How do I do it then? |
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| 11:16 | -!- | Linuxbee is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian |
| 11:16 | <petn-randall> | FelixActually: Have you looked at the man page of cryptsetup yet? |
| 11:16 | -!- | greknod is now known as Guest7467 |
| 11:16 | -!- | greknod [~grek@0002cc1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian |
| 11:16 | -!- | greknod is "nod" on #debian |
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| 11:17 | -!- | mina is "Mina" on #debian |
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| 11:19 | -!- | ChmEarl is "Mark Pryor" on #packaging #virt #debian |
| 11:19 | -!- | Guest7467 [~grek@0002cc1f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 11:20 | <FelixActually> | petn-randall: Where should I be looking specifically? |
| 11:21 | -!- | earthundead [~earthunde@188.170.83.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 11:21 | <FelixActually> | The luksDump command? |
| 11:21 | -!- | Linuxbee [~oftc-webi@42.201.253.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 11:21 | <FelixActually> | Oh wait, below that there's luksHeaderBackup |
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| 11:24 | -!- | toto_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian |
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| 11:29 | -!- | chipox is "realname" on #fdroid #security #replicant #debian |
| 11:29 | <FelixActually> | petn-randall: So I just use that command and save the file somewhere safe? |
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| 11:45 | <anu> | I have a question on the transition package method (https://wiki.debian.org/RenamingPackages) |
| 11:46 | <anu> | after a dummy packge is introduced in the new package d/control |
| 11:46 | <anu> | can the dummy package be dropped from d/control in the next version of the new package? |
| 11:47 | <bremner> | anu: that sounds like a question for #packaging, or for #debian-mentors if for upload to debian |
| 11:48 | <anu> | ok, will inquire there |
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| 11:49 | <imMute> | anu: it's the next *debian release* that drops the transition package. |
| 11:49 | <imMute> | (that's part of the reason that when doing debian release upgrades you have to step through each one, you can't go straight from X to X+2) |
| 11:51 | <anu> | okay, so the transition package is carried in d/control of the new package till the next release |
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| 11:51 | <anu> | does the version of the transitional package need to be incremented with each release of the new package? |
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| 11:52 | <imMute> | I don't think so since that package isn't changing. |
| 11:53 | <imMute> | but if it's part of the new source package, the version will get bumped anyway (since the version is per-source-package) |
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| 11:53 | <imMute> | (and I'm not sure if the transitional binary package is part of the old source package or the new one) |
| 11:54 | <anu> | it's actually part of the new package, and we specify a version that is a newer version of the old package so that it supercedes it |
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| 11:55 | <imMute> | ah, and it probably depends on whether the source package is getting renamed, or just the binary package(s) |
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| 11:56 | <anu> | hmmm ok |
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| 12:00 | <anu> | thanks |
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| 12:12 | <linuxbee> | hi,need guidance.I have downloaded the "firmware.tar.gz" file and extract it.There are all files with deb extention so what may I do ? |
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| 12:14 | <blast007> | linuxbee: have you read this? https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s04.en.html |
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| 12:15 | <blast007> | (assuming you're trying to install Debian) |
| 12:16 | <linuxbee> | yes |
| 12:16 | <linuxbee> | Thnaks "blast007" it is nice site |
| 12:17 | <blast007> | I think you need a separate media device for the firmware files |
| 12:17 | <blast007> | otherwise there are also installer ISOs that have that firmware bundled |
| 12:17 | <blast007> | !firmware images |
| 12:17 | <dpkg> | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>. |
| 12:17 | <linuxbee> | Thanks for guiding me |
| 12:19 | <linuxbee> | Appriciate you :) |
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| 12:21 | <linuxbee> | THere are two iso files "firmware-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" and " firmware-edu-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" which is may I use ? |
| 12:22 | <sney> | edu is for schools, as the readme on that page says |
| 12:23 | <linuxbee> | nice,For personal use "firmware-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" is fine . |
| 12:24 | <sney> | yes |
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| 12:30 | <linuxbee> | One thing more regarding to partition schemeI want to discuss that I normally create 1- boot partition 1 GB 2- root partition 65 GB ,3- Swap partition 8 GB, 4- Rest of the space home partition. The question is it is good approach ?Swap should be 2nd last and last will be home partition .Please guide me . |
| 12:30 | <bremner> | I think if you don't know for sure, then creating less partitions is better |
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| 12:31 | <bremner> | I guess actually you have a fairly minimal set of partitions. |
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| 12:37 | * | imMute would probably use a swapfile instead of a whole partition. (/me also doesn't use swap at all, so YMMV) |
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| 12:38 | <minimal> | bremner: yes I do :-) |
| 12:38 | <enigma9o7[m]> | If only one distro, swap partition not a lot of benefit. |
| 12:38 | <enigma9o7[m]> | But if booting multipe distro, they all can use one swap partition. |
| 12:38 | <enigma9o7[m]> | If I understand right... |
| 12:39 | <imMute> | yeah that's right. I think I read somewhere that swap storage is/can be used for hibernation, so if that's true, then you can't share. |
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| 12:41 | <linuxbee> | i am using 8 GB Ram |
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| 12:42 | <linuxbee> | i never use hibernation but i use video edition software like kdenlive |
| 12:42 | <linuxbee> | which need good ram and also use virtualbox |
| 12:43 | <enigma9o7[m]> | imMute's point was that if yo had two distros using one swap partition, and hibernated one, then booted the other, it would kill the hibernated state cuz it would overwrite the swap partition with new data. |
| 12:43 | <alexrelis> | I don't use swap. It is not useful if you have full disk encryption configured and 32 GBs of memory. |
| 12:43 | <enigma9o7[m]> | whereas if each distro had its own swap file, that problem avoided. |
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| 12:44 | <yanmaani> | swap is a total waste |
| 12:44 | <alexrelis> | Also, every time my older systems cached to swap space, it would end up being slow as molasses due to the limited read/write speeds of interal hard drives compared to RAM. |
| 12:44 | <scorpion2185[m]> | but do you need swap for hibernation ? |
| 12:44 | <yanmaani> | alexrelis: I mean, you can encrypt the swap :P |
| 12:44 | <linuxbee> | i am only using Debian |
| 12:44 | <yanmaani> | but it's still a waste |
| 12:44 | <scorpion2185[m]> | unless you use zram? |
| 12:44 | <alexrelis> | yanmaani: you can, but then you can't hibernate. |
| 12:44 | <yanmaani> | what you want is zram |
| 12:44 | <enigma9o7[m]> | You dont need a swap partition for hibernation. you need swap partition or swap file tho. |
| 12:44 | <enigma9o7[m]> | as fara s Iknow. |
| 12:44 | <yanmaani> | alexrelis: What?? They haven't solved that?! |
| 12:45 | <alexrelis> | It's may be possible with a keyfile if I'm not mistaken, but it's not practical. |
| 12:45 | <scorpion2185[m]> | swap file? |
| 12:45 | <enigma9o7[m]> | if you dont create a swap partition during installation, then you're automatically use a swap file. you can disable it or resize it etc later, but it starts out that way at least.... |
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| 12:46 | <scorpion2185[m]> | how do you check resize that file? |
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| 12:47 | <enigma9o7[m]> | with dd |
| 12:47 | <Sqrt{Not}> | 8 GB of real memory is not a lot for today's systems, if you are doing more than one thing at a time, or doing anything memory intensive |
| 12:47 | <enigma9o7[m]> | easier to web search and find answer that convince someone to type it |
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| 12:48 | <Sqrt{Not}> | some people like to have swap space, to allow multi-tasking; other people prefer the OOM-killers, which kill some of your processes when memory is used up. |
| 12:49 | <FLD> | best is to have enough memory to not need either |
| 12:49 | <scorpion2185[m]> | does swap file allow you to hibernate sO? |
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| 12:51 | <enigma9o7[m]> | yes |
| 12:51 | <Sqrt{Not}> | that's right -- "65K should be enough for anyone" |
| 12:52 | <scorpion2185[m]> | can you use zram? since it's ram I suppose ypou cANNot |
| 12:52 | <enigma9o7[m]> | of course you can |
| 12:52 | <enigma9o7[m]> | i think its probably enabled y default isnt it? maybe not. |
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| 12:52 | <enigma9o7[m]> | been a long time since i played with setting that, thats more useful if you have very little ram |
| 12:53 | <enigma9o7[m]> | or i guess if you're swapping to disk a lot |
| 12:54 | <enigma9o7[m]> | I have 8GB and i hardly swap at all, it just depends how you manage things, do you have 100 tabs open at at time or ten, etc, do you close things when you're not using them or leave tons of crap open, do you want lots of VMs open at once, etc |
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| 13:00 | <linuxbee> | no |
| 13:00 | <FelixActually> | Changing the label of a partition won't wipe the data on it, right? |
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| 13:08 | <linuxbee> | How can I resize the swap file after Debian installation ? |
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| 13:09 | <enigma9o7[m]> | swapoff, dd, swapon; paste that question into browser for step by step |
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| 13:12 | <linuxbee> | Thanks for guiding me.Appriciate all :) |
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| 13:15 | <FelixActually> | If I change the label of a partition, will the data be wiped on that partition? |
| 13:16 | <enigma9o7[m]> | ya thats the quickest way to wipe stuff if the man comes in while yer hacking, change the label. its like ultimate wipe tool. |
| 13:16 | <FelixActually> | You're mocking me, aren't you? |
| 13:17 | <enigma9o7[m]> | wait no im wrong... it just changes the label |
| 13:17 | <enigma9o7[m]> | my mistake |
| 13:17 | <enigma9o7[m]> | im sorry |
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| 13:18 | <FelixActually> | Perhaps I should have been more clear I was joking... |
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| 13:23 | <famubu> | Hi. I installed debian standard version (without a desktop env) on a computer. How can we connect to a wifi connection with a captive portal using it? Tried `service NetworkManager restart` from a post online but it says no such service. |
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| 13:23 | <famubu> | Or wifi connection not possible in this installation? |
| 13:23 | <famubu> | Tethering from a phone didn't work either. |
| 13:24 | <famubu> | Ethernet works though. But still captive portal log in is required. Since there are no browsers (lynx/links/elinks etc), can't give the password (or is there a way?) |
| 13:25 | <sney> | you are probably missing firmware for your wifi device, this happens a lot |
| 13:26 | <sney> | look in dmesg to see which driver is complaining about missing firmware, then connect to ethernet and install the relevant package from non-free. |
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| 13:26 | <sney> | for instance if it's iwlwifi (intel), you would install firmware-iwlwifi, if it's realtek you would install firmware-realtek, etc |
| 13:27 | <sney> | !non-free sources |
| 13:27 | <dpkg> | Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>. |
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| 13:33 | <famubu> | I had tried with xfce image and there wifi was working fine. Wifi is realtek. Laptop is a thinkpad E series. |
| 13:34 | <famubu> | The problem in the case of ethernet is that it requires a captive portal log in..(auto) fam@ubu:~/gits/website-src$ git add wip/blog/ghdl.org |
| 13:34 | <famubu> | Oops.. |
| 13:34 | <famubu> | 😬 |
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| 13:35 | <famubu> | Tried searching for ways to log in via terminal but most them needed extra software.. |
| 13:35 | <famubu> | is there a way around that? |
| 13:36 | <famubu> | Couldn't find anything that looked like a wifi error in dmesg (but then I'm not that familiar with dmesg output..) |
| 13:39 | <sney> | it wouldn't be a wifi error as the driver has not loaded yet |
| 13:40 | <sney> | something like this will usually show it, 'dmesg |grep -i firmware' |
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| 13:40 | <sney> | the other option is to use an installer that has the firmware already included, |
| 13:40 | <sney> | !firmware image |
| 13:40 | <dpkg> | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>. |
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| 13:42 | <gothenburg> | :D |
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| 13:48 | <famubu> | I'm using the installer with firmware included. One of the non-official versions from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.1.0+nonfree/amd64/ |
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| 13:50 | <famubu> | dmesg | grep firmware shows 2 messages that seem to say realtek wifi firware were loaded all right. |
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| 13:51 | <famubu> | Like "rtw_8822ce firmware: direct-loading firmware" |
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| 13:51 | <famubu> | Thought rtw stood for realtek wireless.. |
| 13:55 | <famubu> | ifquery -l shows wifi and ethernet. Doing ifup on them shows 'interface already configured'. |
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| 14:11 | <scorpion2185[m]> | @enigma9o7:matrix.org: I mean can zram make you hibernate? no swap . |
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| 14:34 | <sney> | famubu: well, if the driver is loaded, then you should just need to configure the interface. I'm not sure how to deal with a captive portal from the command line, but maybe something involving curl? there's a general rundown of ifupdown usage here, https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Using_ifupdown |
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| 14:37 | <Sqrt{Not}> | captive portal |
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| 14:54 | <scorpion2185[m]> | why lxsession-logout doesn t use my custom i3lock? |
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| 15:26 | <petn-randall> | FelixActually: Yes. Also read the fineprint about it. I'd also recommend trying it out once with a loop-mounted file to be safe. |
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| 15:47 | <alexrelis> | What's the best way to rip DVD-Audio albums in Debian? |
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| 15:50 | <alexrelis> | And by DVD, I don't mean DVD movies. I'm talking about music released on DVD. Should I just use Handbrake? |
| 15:51 | <vlt> | alexrelis: Have you tried abcde? |
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| 15:53 | <Sqrt{Not}> | famubu, you mentioned lynx earlier -- it is available in debian: sudo apt install lynx |
| 15:55 | <alexrelis> | vlt: I use abcde all the time to rip Audio CDs. Did not know they worked with DVD-A as well. |
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| 15:57 | <vlt> | alexrelis: Me neither :D |
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| 16:32 | <FelixActually> | petn-randall: What do you mean by "trying it out once with a loop-mounted file to be safe" |
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| 16:33 | <mason> | FelixActually: Create a "disk" with a loop device. Partition it. Put stuff there. Change the label. Observe. |
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| 16:34 | <FelixActually> | Oh, I thought that was in reference to cryptsetup |
| 16:34 | <mason> | Oh, maybe, dunno. I scrolled back until I saw something you'd said that could be tested this way, for context. |
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| 16:35 | <mason> | Good way to test cryptsetup too, sure. |
| 16:35 | <mason> | (Local equivalent, I'd just create a zvol, but you'd need ZFS for that.) |
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| 16:36 | <FelixActually> | What would I need to test about cryptsetup though? |
| 16:37 | <mason> | FelixActually: I didn't scroll back far enough to see where cryptsetup came in. Dunno. |
| 16:37 | <FelixActually> | I was asking about how to back up the header stuff previously |
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| 17:30 | <kb3ien> | My raspberry pi (32 bit raspberry pi os) is not spawning LOGIN. This system (debian 10.9) |
| 17:31 | <kb3ien> | is using systemd. How do I figure out what is stalling? |
| 17:31 | <kb3ien> | (I can SSH in) |
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| 17:39 | <sussudio> | how are you ssh'ing in if login isn't spawning. |
| 17:39 | <mason> | Has to be getting past network and sshd. |
| 17:40 | <mason> | kb3ien: journalctl -xe maybe |
| 17:40 | <mason> | Or systemctl status whatever-Debian-calls-getty-under-systemd |
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| 17:45 | <kb3ien> | console0 hasn't spawned a login. |
| 17:46 | <kb3ien> | multi-user.target loaded inactive dead start Multi-User System |
| 17:46 | <kb3ien> | getty.target loaded inactive dead start Login Prompts |
| 17:46 | <kb3ien> | graphical.target loaded inactive dead start Graphical Interface |
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| 17:55 | <kb3ien> | I don't want to start X, it's not needed, I think that's 'graphical.target' I removed it, as it installed by default. |
| 17:55 | <mason> | kb3ien: systemctl set-default multi-user.target |
| 17:56 | <mason> | you shouldn't need to delete anything |
| 17:57 | <mason> | Think of it like /etc/inittab's id line, only via dbus. If you haven't set it, I'm not sure how it'd behave. |
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| 17:58 | <imMute> | mason: IIRC /usr/whatever has a default installed by debian (that points to graphical.target). when you do set-default that creates something in /etc/systemd/whatever that overrides the /usr one |
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| 17:58 | <kb3ien> | Tried that, systemctl set-default multi-user.target - no change it the running system. |
| 17:59 | <mason> | imMute: Ah, kk. Hrm. kb3ien: does a raw "systemctl status" show any red? |
| 17:59 | <kb3ien> | State is still State: starting |
| 17:59 | <imMute> | set-default doesn't change anything immediately, you need to reboot to see it's effects |
| 18:00 | <kb3ien> | looks like its blocking. |
| 18:00 | <mason> | Oh, that's an idea. 'systemctl isolate multi-user.target' |
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| 18:02 | <kb3ien> | oh, joy, "Failed to start Raise network interfaces." again. |
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| 18:07 | <kb3ien> | Im' not keen on network start errors causing login to break. |
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| 18:07 | <kb3ien> | Fortunately it's not as broken as systemd wants to tell me, as I CAN login via SSH. |
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| 18:13 | <kb3ien> | Not sure the inet attributes for the interface that wont start are address, network, broadcast,netmask; the inet6 are just address,netmask. |
| 18:13 | <kb3ien> | there is a post-up |
| 18:14 | <kb3ien> | the post-up script ran. so that's unlikely the cause. |
| 18:14 | <kb3ien> | but I get this : ifup: failed to bring up wl_cg |
| 18:15 | <kb3ien> | it's an alias to a wifi chip, such that the name bears some relevance to the ESSID. |
| 18:18 | <kb3ien> | I'm a lot less worried about why it didn't start, than why I cannot login. |
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| 18:24 | <mason> | kb3ien: This is not something I'd recommend as a long-term solution but I'd be thinking about driving a getty out of rc.local until you resolve the larger problem. |
| 18:25 | <kb3ien> | ~. |
| 18:26 | <mason> | You *say* that. |
| 18:27 | <kb3ien> | Not a systemd fan, nor a guru, how does one make the console login start even if networking "fails". Honestly I don't know for how long it's been broken, but the console issue is new after a recent upgrade. |
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| 18:27 | <kb3ien> | can systemd be told to start it anyway. |
| 18:28 | <kb3ien> | I suppose I can settup meta-break to force the creation of a new login instance. |
| 18:28 | <mason> | kb3ien: I'm guessing it *has* been told to start it and is failing somehow. But, like, /sbin/getty 38400 tty1 in rc.local might be worth a try. |
| 18:28 | <mason> | Or just in a root login, to see if it works. |
| 18:29 | <mason> | Then there ought to be some service failing that you should be able to find, assuming everything installed correctly. |
| 18:29 | <spawacz> | try "systemctl status getty" and press tab to complete |
| 18:29 | <spawacz> | it's gonna say getty@tty1 or something if it's up |
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| 18:30 | <kb3ien> | there is a service called getty@tty1.service : Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)...Active: inactive (dead) |
| 18:31 | <kb3ien> | weirder and weirder. |
| 18:31 | <kb3ien> | BBL |
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| 18:40 | <spawacz> | maybe check "systemctl status", it's gonna print how many units have failed |
| 18:40 | <spawacz> | maybe it's something else, earlier in the boot |
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| 18:46 | <r4fkramer> | Hi all, please, if possible to anyone, answer me this: https://paste.debian.net/1221901/ |
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| 18:47 | <mason> | r4fkramer: Debian does a decent job with a minimal install. |
| 18:49 | <r4fkramer> | mason, thank you very much for answering this. In this case, I used the largest image available |
| 18:49 | <mason> | r4fkramer: The image from which you install is largely unrelated to the sort of system you install. |
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| 18:51 | <r4fkramer> | Ok, so could you please explain me about the 1st answer you gave me ? 'Debian does a decent job with a minimal install' ? |
| 18:53 | <r4fkramer> | Or suggest me any specific link for research ? I tried to find this answer in debian reference manual, but there is any about it over there. |
| 18:54 | <mason> | r4fkramer: Hrm. Maybe look at debootstrap's notion of "minbase" and what packages are absolutely required. |
| 18:55 | <r4fkramer> | Fine mason, I'll do it now. Thank you very much for information given :) |
| 18:55 | <mason> | r4fkramer: Also: |
| 18:55 | <mason> | r4fkramer: apt-cache dumpavail | less |
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| 18:56 | <r4fkramer> | hum, one apt-cache command. Thank you ! |
| 18:56 | <mason> | and look at Priority. And shuffle through some apt docs. The minimum required system is tiny, and there are different options for adding more that can accomodate using more or less disk space. |
| 18:58 | <r4fkramer> | OK mason, I'll develop this additional research also. I really need to understand it better. Nice to see you here again :) |
| 18:58 | <mason> | Likewise. |
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| 20:58 | -!- | HokieWho is "user" on #debian |
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| 23:49 | <jim> | hi, I just installed smartmontools, and looked it over (looked at the list of files, looked at the conf file, and it appears the conf file is a sample), do I need to edit that file to have it monitor specific disks? or how does that work? (I looked for man pages, and read some of man smartd) |
| 23:49 | <jim> | or, |
| 23:50 | <jim> | is there a man page that describes what I should do? does dpkg-reconfigure smartmontools do anything? |
| 23:52 | <somiaj> | I don't know any of those answers, but have you check /usr/share/doc/smartmontools, there is sometimes extra info in there |
| 23:53 | <jim> | not yet, good thought tho |
| 23:55 | -!- | lucasmsoares96 [~lucas@2804:431:c7ca:e459:c4b0:51ff:95d1:bbbb] has joined #debian |
| 23:55 | -!- | lucasmsoares96 is "Lucas Martins Soares" on #debian |
| 23:56 | <jim> | thalooking into yjat now |
| 23:57 | <jim> | oh, as I started to say, thanks for responding |
| --- | Log | closed Sat Dec 04 00:00:30 2021 |
