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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-03

---Logopened Fri Dec 03 00:00:29 2021
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00:06<yanmaani>tried. if I just do upgrade it looks fine
00:06<yanmaani>if I try to install a single package it's broken
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00:12<anon8947>I think you'll need to wait for wizards that delved into deeper wisdom than I.
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00:57<r4fkramer>Hi all Please, as stupid as it may seem to some, I have the following question: can I remove libreoffice from my debian without risking removing important or vital dependencies for other applications in Mate DE ?
00:58<r4fkramer>I ask this because libreoffice is installed by default in the mate interface, it is not an additional program that I installed after installing the OS.
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01:06<alexrelis>r4fkramer: If you run an `apt purge libreoffice` as root, it will tell you which packages apt will remove.
01:07<r4fkramer>alexrelist, thank you for answering. Ok, but is this information displayed enough ?
01:08<alexrelis>According to this, it also seems like Mate doesn't depend on Libreoffice: https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/mate-desktop-environment
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01:09<somiaj>note apt won't remove auto packages with the intial command, but will require autoremove afterwards
01:09<r4fkramer>Fine, alexrelis, I'll read this now.
01:09<somiaj>make sure you look at what would want to be removed, and you can just make other metapackages manual if it wants to take out stuff you don't want
01:09<r4fkramer>despite the name 'libreoffice', it doesn't refer to suite for office libreoffice.
01:10<somiaj>what do you mean? libreoffice is just a metapackage that installs all the libreoffice components.
01:10<r4fkramer>I typed here and it displayed: Package 'libreoffice' is not installed, so not removed
01:10<eht>Is needing to restart after usermod -aG sudo a new thing?
01:10<somiaj>Removing that package won't really do much, not having it installed won't do much either, though it is a common metapackage to pull in
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01:10<somiaj>eht: no
01:10<somiaj>eht: Groups have always been set at the moment you login (authenticate)
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01:11<r4fkramer>So, I need to remove this matepackage
01:11<somiaj>there are some ways to do it without relogging, but they require a bit of trickery and one should just logout/login again after adding a new group.
01:11<r4fkramer>metapackage
01:11<eht>is that moment at the initial disk decryption on boot?
01:11<eht>otherwise wouldn't log out/in suffice?
01:11*eht is just curious
01:11<somiaj>r4fkramer: removing the metapackage wont' remove libreoffice, y ou need to remove the actual packages the metapackage pulls in
01:12<somiaj>eht: it happens at any login(1), via ssh, su, etc
01:12<eht>but logging out after usermod command doesn't work
01:12<somiaj>so if you do su - username, you'll login and be added to th group
01:12<eht>only after restart
01:12<eht>yes if you immedietly su - username it works
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01:13<raven523>are you logging in with ssh?
01:13<somiaj>are you actually logging out (if in a desktop you have to logout back to the display manager)
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01:13<eht>but after you close the terminal and start a new one it does not
01:13<r4fkramer>I'm more confused as before. I just want to remove writer, libreoffice calc, draw, impress, math, calc
01:13<somiaj>but once you add yourself to a group, any login will put you into that group. Any running shells/sessions won't have that group.
01:13<eht>on desktop
01:13<eht>how many other ways are there to log out ?
01:13<eht>(x windows)
01:13<somiaj>that is because you haven't logged out of the desktop, so anything launched by the desktop is being launched by the current session which you haven't loged out of
01:13<raven523>opening a terminal emulator usually doesn't create a new login
01:13<somiaj>just logout back to your display manager
01:14<somiaj>yea, opening a terminal just starts a new shell, there is no new login happening
01:14<eht>right
01:14<eht>but then i log out
01:14<eht>and log in
01:14<eht>and still does not work
01:15<eht>log out desktop, log out terminal
01:15<eht>log back in
01:15<raven523>ar eyou using a display manager or startx?
01:15<eht>no sudo allowed
01:15<eht>display manager. Would I need to kill the x session?
01:16<somiaj>you need to fully logout of your session and get back to your displaymanger, then login again
01:16<raven523>you shouldn't need to. Which display manager?
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01:16<raven523>I mean logging out of the display manager should be sufficient
01:16<eht>it's just a fresh install of the default options
01:16<eht>gnome
01:16-!-arifendronugroho [~arifendro@114.79.17.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:17<somiaj>so go to the gnome menu and logout
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01:17<somiaj>this will send you back to your display manager giving you a login screen
01:17<eht>uh huh
01:17<eht>and then log in and it does not work
01:17<eht>until complete restart
01:18<eht>I usually just edit the sudoers file... debian docs suggested usermod -aG sudo username so I gave that a whirl and it's honestly pretty confusing
01:20<somiaj>Debian gives all users in the sudo group full sudo privlages vis the sudoers file (just look at it)
01:20<somiaj>If you want to manually add yourself to the sudoers file via visudo, go ahead, this is just a default setup
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01:20<somiaj>also just don't set a root password at time of the install, you'll be added to the group automatically
01:20<eht>All I am trying to do is understand why using usermod would require a system restart to make the sudo group stick
01:21<eht>I understand the rest of the process
01:21<somiaj>It doesn't, it requires you to relogin
01:21<eht>False
01:21<somiaj>if it isn't working, there is something happening and you aren't fully logging out
01:21<eht>I just went through it on two fresh installs
01:21<eht>Not sure how much more log out i can get then clicking logout
01:22<eht>than*
01:22<eht>unless you are implying i need to kill xserver
01:22<eht>which is equally odd
01:22<somiaj>well gnome uses wayland
01:23<eht>did the same on xfce. does that use wayland?
01:23<eht>(no)
01:24<somiaj>must be something with your setup, as it works as expected here. You are added to groups at the moment you login. You can look at the output of groups to check what groups your current session is in
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01:25<eht>Looks like it might be sudo service that needs to restart
01:25<eht>to avoid reboot
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01:25<eht>Weird
01:26<somiaj>there is no sudo service, it isn't a daemon that runs in the background.
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01:26<eht>Have you never run the service sudo restart command?
01:27<eht>(/usr/bin/sudo)
01:27<somiaj>sudo isn't a default service in debian
01:27<somiaj>It is a binary that allows privalge escillation
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01:28<eht>OK cool so no ideas why usermod is funky and needs a reboot.
01:28<somiaj>well I guess there is a sudo.service -> /dev/null, though not sure why anyone would need a sudo service
01:29<eht>I am just trying to understand usermod
01:29<somiaj>if you are able to 'su - username' and it works, this means it has nothing to do with sudo or usermod
01:29<eht>what does it have to do with
01:29<somiaj>It means that you are not fully logging out and a reset actually just fully logs you out
01:29<eht>again, we're dealing with defaults here
01:29<eht>help me understand what fully logging out is
01:29<eht>if it is not clicking logout
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01:30<eht>is there a second secret super log out button? And why then would usermod need that kind of logout to make the group stick?
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01:32<r4fkramer>alexrelis Your information was decisive for Me to be able to solve the problem here, without fearing the risk of having broken packages later.
01:32<somiaj>You have already been told. Groups are set at the moment you login, so any running sessions will not have the new group.
01:32<eht>yikes
01:32<eht>OKTHEN
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01:33<r4fkramer>alexrelist, Thank you very much for your attention and for the Great Support! :)
01:33<jmcnaught>eht: are you using GDM? In a VM I just changed group membership for my user and logged out then back in and group membership had not been updated. I logged out again, waited 5 seconds, logged in and then group membership was updated.
01:33<jmcnaught>too slow…
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01:33<somiaj>jmcnaught: maybe a systemd user session keeping things around? or maybe for some reason you need to wait to fully logout, that sucks.
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01:34<sodo>i've replaced my laptop's lancard to rtl8723ae
01:34<somiaj>I was just installing this in a vm to see if I can figure it out, but that is strange you have to wait like that.
01:34<sodo>wifi just works fine but i can't search any bluetooth device
01:34<jmcnaught>somiaj: it seems to be logging out and logging back in too quickly does not update group membership (with gdm and GNOME)
01:35<sodo>this was a known issue and there were some solutions(patched driver)
01:35<somiaj>jmcnaught: I wonder if gdm is doing something fancy to not actually need to do a new login(1)
01:35<sodo>but every link i found was deleted
01:35<somiaj>sodo: you have the firmware installed for realtek devices?
01:35<sodo>yes
01:36<sodo>i did(wifi didn't worked before i installed firmware)
01:36<somiaj>I don't use bluetooth, so unsure what else could be going on unfourntally
01:36<sodo>bluetooth was working fine before i changed my lan card
01:37<sodo>so i'd assume it's not the problem of bluetooth stack
01:37<somiaj>Did the predictiable inteface name of your wifi change due to changing the lan card?
01:38<sodo>i don't know what it was before but it's now wlp5s0
01:38<somiaj>sodo: just wondering if that could have messed with things.
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01:40<sodo>and there was some cases being unable to search bluetooth devices on rtl8723ae reported, just like me
01:40<somiaj>jmcnaught: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1045993/after-adding-a-group-logoutlogin-is-not-enough-in-18-04 -- yea looks like a systemd thing, their solution is to run loginctrl terminate-user to ensure that all the systemd user services are actually killed. So if you go too fast logind probably still has that user logged in, so the user never fully logged out and gdm just nicely uses the old session. How
01:40<somiaj>silly.
01:40<somiaj>superkuh: well isn't rtl8723ae a lan card? Why would it have bluetooth support?
01:40<sodo>it's a combo card
01:40<somiaj>oh, it is a wifi+bluetooth
01:41<somiaj>Yea, it could be just that device has poor bluetooth support in linux. I don't know that device well enough. If you have realtek-firmware installed and it still isn't working, unsure what to do next.
01:41<jmcnaught>somiaj: just waiting a few seconds was enough here for group membership to change
01:41<sodo>seems there was a fix
01:42<sodo>modified driver
01:42<sodo>but i can't find any of them
01:42<somiaj>jmcnaught: yea, seems it takes logind a little bit of time to close all the old systemd login sessions, and gdm just uses the old sessions if they still exist. Again a silly bug, but explains that users frustration
01:42<jmcnaught>Too bad they didn't stick around a few more seconds
01:42<sodo>and if there was a fix
01:43<sodo>why it isn't on debian upstream yet
01:43<somiaj>yea, I was busy installing gnome to test it out too. OH well, maybe I shouldn't have responded so quickly about their misunderstanding of what the problem was.
01:43<somiaj>sodo: debian is a frozen release, new stuff only comes with new releases.
01:43<somiaj>sodo: Do you know what kernel the fix was in?
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01:45<sodo>as i know, there only was patched kernel module source code
01:45<somiaj>,v firmware-realtek
01:45<judd>Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20210315-3~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20210315-3; bookworm/non-free: 20210818-1; sid/non-free: 20210818-1
01:45<somiaj>sodo: if it doesn't make it to the offical kernel, it most likely won't make it into debian.
01:45<sodo>i don't know if it was merged to kernel or not
01:45<somiaj>there is a 5.14 kernel in backports you could try to see if that gives you better luck. But it just might be that device has poor bluetooth support
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01:46<sodo>wait ill get some link i saw
01:48<sodo>maybe i just plugged antenna poorly
01:49<sodo>https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=209895
01:49<sodo>and i saw this link
01:49<somiaj>jmcnaught: yea that is very bizzare. I wonder if it is considered a bug or not
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01:51<somiaj>sodo: unsure why those fixes haven't made it into the linux kernel. Those fixes are 7 years old, so I doubt a newer kernel will help out.
01:52<somiaj>sodo: you could try to see if compiling that module works for you (and can still be compiled against the kernel). But it just appears you got unlucky with the hardware you have
01:52<sodo>but repo link is broken now
01:52<somiaj>It worked for me
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01:54<sodo>oh
01:54<sodo>upper link was broken but bottom one works
01:55<somiaj>ahh yea I just tried the solution
01:55<sodo>u have same card?
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01:56<somiaj>No, I tried the link in the solution post not the problem post
01:56<somiaj>as I mentioned, I don't use bluetooth in linux (and barely use it on my phone)
02:00<sodo>this seems it's for usb version
02:00<sodo>my one is mpcie
02:01<sodo>before i go to disassemble, replug my antenna
02:01<sodo>is there a way i can get some info about my bluetooth adapter?
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02:04<sodo>https://imgur.com/DUp06HX.png
02:04<sodo>while trying random stuffs
02:05<sodo>it suddenly started to work after i typed in scan on
02:05<somiaj>maybe it was toggled off for some reason.
02:05<sodo>idk why was it off
02:06<sodo>but this toggle wasn't accessible on blueman
02:06<sodo>(i'm a fan of gui)
02:07<sodo>i'll check if it still works after i reboot and submit an issue on blueman
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02:57<hudo>has anyone a running bullseye with working copy&paste with vnc ?? ( using tigervncserver which seems to be the default vncserver )
02:59<hudo>I upgraded from buster , where copy/paste worked and after upgrade it does not work anymore. Now a second system is in front for upgrading.
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03:05<tuxd3v>sodo, maybe you need rfkill package..
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03:11<tuxd3v>actually wesnoth version, the last is 1.16.1
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05:27<kali_>Sup
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07:32<Pete77>Hello, i want to ask if it is possible to run sid "very stable"?
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07:32-!-ahso is "ahso" on #debian-next #debian #debian-wsl
07:36<Anarka>isnt testing enough ?
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07:39<Pete77>i heard that testing ist a bit more actual than release but has no security patches, and sid is way more actual and then without security patches, sid is more secure and less vulnerable than testing
07:39<Pete77>but i don't know if this is correct
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07:40-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #packaging #debian
07:41<bremner>Pete77: #debian-next is there for this discussion
07:41<bremner>basically there is no free lunch, every choice is a tradeoff
07:41<Pete77>thank you than i switch to debian-next
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07:47<Pete77>oh i cannot sent to debian-next cause not regisetered, why registered is need for debian-next, but not for main debian?
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07:50<Anarka>hard to trust ppl running testing/sid :p
07:52<Pete77>is a little unnecessary if you have a few small questions before you want to change that you have to register...
07:52<Pete77>i mean before i want to change the distribution
07:52<Pete77>maybe here are also ppl that could answer my question from debian-next?
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07:55<bremner>Pete77: you should just register. It is often useful.
07:56<Pete77>i register if i stay on debian, there is not another channel here i use on oftc and i really hate to create accounts and passworts for every tiny bit, i actual have to create much accounts for bug reports for every app i use, then no need of more atm
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07:59<baka>i need help
08:00<bremner>!ask
08:00<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
08:00<baka>i just downloaded debian cinnamon 11.1 but i dont know how to get the wifi drivers runing
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08:01<Pete77>is it possible to use bookworm and what is anohter repository tree than unstalbe und testing?
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08:01<bremner>baka: what is the wifi hardware, do you know?
08:01<baka>broadcom is the manufature of the card
08:02<bremner>!broadcom
08:02<dpkg>Broadcom Corporation is an integrated circuits supplier. For wireless LAN chipset drivers, ask me about <b43>, <brcmsmac>, <rndis_wlan>, <wl>. For Ethernet controller support, ask me about <bnx2>, <bnx2x>, <tg3>. For hybrid Bluetooth firmware not available elsewhere ask me about <bcmhybridbt>.
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08:02<Pete77>i mean is bookworm another repository three then unstable or testing?
08:02<bremner>Pete77: no
08:03<bremner>baka: hopefully some broadcom user will jump in, but maybe start with "lspci" in a terminal, look for more clues about the specific hardware
08:03<Pete77>then bookworm is testing, and unstalbe sid as usual?
08:03<Anarka>bookworm is the name of the next debian stable, atm bookworm and testing is the same
08:03<Anarka>yes
08:03<Pete77>okay thanks
08:03<petn-randall>Pete77: Note that if you upgrade to bookworm, you're expected to beta-test it, and any expectations of having a working system go out the window.
08:05<baka>https://imgur.com/a/sQAZU1d
08:05<baka>on linux mint i was able to install it on the drivers aplication
08:06<Pete77>petn-randall: i saw many videos they said that sid is not that worse and same or maybe more stable than like arch linux as a rolling release, and now i want do ask what the experience is here from user that uses it as daily driver
08:07<petn-randall>IMHO if you "watch videos" on Debian sid that's already a bad start.
08:08<Pete77>a bad start for what?
08:08<petn-randall>Pete77: It's not a rolling release. It may break any time, and it's up to you to debug the issue, file a bug report, and find a solution.
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08:10<petn-randall>!moving target
08:10<dpkg>Sure, testing might be shinier than stable, but are you prepared to be continually updating your system? Things that worked today will break tomorrow. Configuration file formats will change and you'll have to fold your changes in yet again. Testing is a moving target and if you'd rather work *with* your computer than working *on* your computer, you might not want that. See <testing security>.
08:10<petn-randall>Pete77: If you actual goal is to have newer software, I'd rather go with stable + backports.
08:10<petn-randall>*your
08:10<Pete77>well than it is not as smooth as like arch or rawhide?
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08:13<Pete77>dpkg: at the moment i have 20-30 update per day, and if o don't update a week, maybe 500-600 sometimes
08:13<dpkg>You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, Pete77
08:13<Pete77>also an sysetmwide upgrade every week
08:13<Pete77>i use tumbleweed since 10 years and never had a problem that it breaks or i wasn't able to fix
08:14<petn-randall>Pete77: Yes, which is why looking at videos is a bad start for educating yourself about Debian testing.
08:14<Pete77>also it shipped the newest of the newest software
08:14<petn-randall>Pete77: If you want to upgrade to testing to help with triaging and fixing bugs, I'd say go ahead.
08:14<Pete77>but then maybe the difference is that distros and arch are maintained and sid not right?
08:15<Pete77>sorry for the type: i mean that then the difference is that distros like arch or tumbleweed are maintained, but sid not?
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08:15<petn-randall>Pete77: sid is maintained. Just not with the guarantees you might expect.
08:17<Pete77>dpkg: sorry what do you mean by this that i am #1 to send an unparseable request? my english is not that good and the translation doesn't make sense to me
08:17<dpkg>that's too long, Pete77
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08:17<Pete77>what do you mean?
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08:19<Pete77>dpkg what is too long?
08:19<dpkg>I think you lost me on that one, Pete77
08:19<grove>Pete77: dpkg is a robot
08:19<Pete77>oh and how sould i know this?
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08:20<petn-randall>!are you a bot
08:20<dpkg>I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
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08:20<petn-randall>You could notice that dpkg responds in 0.01s to your questions, faster than any human can type.
08:21<grove>Most people (even thse who dome here) don't know, and don't need to know
08:21<Pete77>not if i don't look to the screen after i write something to drik my coffee sereval times
08:22<petn-randall>Anyways, now you know.
08:22<Pete77>yes ^^ thanks for the hint
08:23<Pete77>okay than sid is maintained but maybe not as i expect like from other rolling release..
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08:23<Pete77>and testing is fine at all? also no security problem cause it is in the middle of actual package without patches?
08:23<grove>But apart from timing, I would guess your best shot at figuring it out is trying to talk to it and realise that it is far from passing the Turing test
08:23<petn-randall>Yes, since it's not a rolling release. It's a bunch of packages that compiled fine on someone's computer, and through rigorous testing they end up migrating to testing.
08:24<Pete77>grove in chat, random ppl say random thinkgs with only parts what you asked or somethines unrelated topic ;-)
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08:25<petn-randall>Pete77: testing will not always get timely security updates, sometimes a library needs to migrate first, and that has RC bugs, so sometimes you wait a month or three on a fix.
08:26<petn-randall>Pete77: and sometimes sid will not get a timely security update, either, because the maintainer is working on larger changes of the package. The security team only covers stable.
08:26<Pete77>and before an release testing (and also sid) is freezed too right?
08:27<Pete77>maybe during a release it is the worst about security to use sid and testing..
08:27<grove>I don't go in many chat rooms, maybe my expecation of how many people would pass the Turing test is a bit outdated - I think this is moving off-topic
08:27<petn-randall>!freeze
08:27<dpkg>In the final stages of a release's testing cycle, a series of increasingly restrictive "freezes" are enforced, preventing various kinds of changes, in order to focus on getting the release into shape.
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08:28<Pete77>grove my english is very basic, i don't regocnize tometimes if one talks to me or not and what he means, if i don't understand and he/it pings me, i ask what he means, and if i don't see the timing cause i drink coffee, no change for me ti immediataly see it is a bot
08:29<Pete77>also i don't really understand why and what do you want to say to me
08:29<Pete77>let us keep topic best
08:29<wwallace>Hello: I am unable to mount a windows share from command line:
08:29<wwallace>oot@Inspiron:~# mount -t cifs -o username=wwallace //10.2.0.156:/Documents /mnt/Documents/
08:29<wwallace>mount error: could not resolve address for 10.2.0.156:: Unknown error
08:30<grove>Try without the :
08:30<wwallace>Ok Thank you.
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08:30<petn-randall>wwallace: You probably want smb:// and without :, not sure though.
08:30<Pete77>Well at all we could close the topic, thans for all the help, i understand now that i don't want to use testing and sid
08:31<wwallace>grove it worked.
08:31<wwallace>Thanks.
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08:31<Pete77>and about stable and backport some app, is this then suggested? is there a howto/guide how it works?
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08:34<petn-randall>!debian-backports
08:34<dpkg>backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <bullseye backports>) and oldstable (<buster backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>.
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08:38<Pete77>thanks petn-randall, i read that it is not recommended to use to much from backports, some package maybe. What if i want to use the whole new kde desktop, then maybe some stuff also breaks?
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09:39<baka>i have to build the driver
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09:59<baka>anyone wana help
10:00<baka>with the wifi issue
10:00<cc>!ask
10:00<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:04<baka>"I have a problem with getting wifi drgivers; I'm runnin Debian version 11.1. When I try to do look for the option to connect to wifiI get the following output there is no option to connect . I expected it to have the option to connect to wifi.
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10:04<cc>which wifi card do you have?
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10:05<cc>its PCI id or USB id
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10:06<baka>i have a Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43228 802.11a/b/g/n driver
10:06<baka>i ment card
10:09<cc>try https://wiki.debian.org/wl
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10:13<baka>when i try to paste into the terminal it gives me this error [bash: deb: command not found]
10:14<selckin>read the text, don't just copy paste random things in grey
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10:21<xowomisterx>hi
10:22<petn-randall>hi xowomisterx
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10:25<xowomisterx>need help on my
10:25<xowomisterx>Absenic console
10:25-!-_Matth_ [~Matth@170.17.178.217.shared.user.transix.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:25<petn-randall>xowomisterx: What is an absenic console?
10:27<xowomisterx>multi-tools hacking whatever i have and sd card 16gb but it dosent boot
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10:28<petn-randall>xowomisterx: I have zero useful google hits on "absenic console", are you sure you spelt it right?
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10:29<xowomisterx>pretty sure heumm maybe / petforu is the right therm
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10:31<petn-randall>xowomisterx: Another keyword with zero useful hits. Maybe check again what it's called.
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10:32<xowomisterx>Anbernic/ RG351p
10:32<xowomisterx>now its good
10:33<petn-randall>xowomisterx: Ok, so that's a video game console similar to gameboy. How is that related to Debian?
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10:35<xowomisterx>work on debian yes but when i start it ... i search for long time but theres nothing on youtube and on the inthernet
10:36<petn-randall>xowomisterx: What works on Debian?
10:36<xowomisterx>the console!!!
10:37<petn-randall>Ok, congrats. So you do still have a support question?
10:37<xowomisterx>no thanks bro !!
10:38<Sqrt{Not}>SanchoPiensa, (I'm no kind of windows expert at all, but) I think in win 10 there is not necessarily a separate admin user. Usually the only (or first) regular user has admin powers, and just needs to enter its own password when asked.
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11:12<FelixActually>Do I have to set up LUKS in detached header mode to back up the headers?
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11:15<petn-randall>FelixActually: no
11:15<FelixActually>Oh, good
11:15<FelixActually>How do I do it then?
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11:16<petn-randall>FelixActually: Have you looked at the man page of cryptsetup yet?
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11:20<FelixActually>petn-randall: Where should I be looking specifically?
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11:21<FelixActually>The luksDump command?
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11:21<FelixActually>Oh wait, below that there's luksHeaderBackup
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11:29<FelixActually>petn-randall: So I just use that command and save the file somewhere safe?
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11:45<anu>I have a question on the transition package method (https://wiki.debian.org/RenamingPackages)
11:46<anu>after a dummy packge is introduced in the new package d/control
11:46<anu>can the dummy package be dropped from d/control in the next version of the new package?
11:47<bremner>anu: that sounds like a question for #packaging, or for #debian-mentors if for upload to debian
11:48<anu>ok, will inquire there
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11:49<imMute>anu: it's the next *debian release* that drops the transition package.
11:49<imMute>(that's part of the reason that when doing debian release upgrades you have to step through each one, you can't go straight from X to X+2)
11:51<anu>okay, so the transition package is carried in d/control of the new package till the next release
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11:51<anu>does the version of the transitional package need to be incremented with each release of the new package?
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11:52<imMute>I don't think so since that package isn't changing.
11:53<imMute>but if it's part of the new source package, the version will get bumped anyway (since the version is per-source-package)
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11:53<imMute>(and I'm not sure if the transitional binary package is part of the old source package or the new one)
11:54<anu>it's actually part of the new package, and we specify a version that is a newer version of the old package so that it supercedes it
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11:55<imMute>ah, and it probably depends on whether the source package is getting renamed, or just the binary package(s)
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11:56<anu>hmmm ok
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12:00<anu>thanks
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12:12<linuxbee>hi,need guidance.I have downloaded the "firmware.tar.gz" file and extract it.There are all files with deb extention so what may I do ?
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12:14<blast007>linuxbee: have you read this? https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s04.en.html
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12:15<blast007>(assuming you're trying to install Debian)
12:16<linuxbee>yes
12:16<linuxbee>Thnaks "blast007" it is nice site
12:17<blast007>I think you need a separate media device for the firmware files
12:17<blast007>otherwise there are also installer ISOs that have that firmware bundled
12:17<blast007>!firmware images
12:17<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>.
12:17<linuxbee>Thanks for guiding me
12:19<linuxbee>Appriciate you :)
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12:21<linuxbee>THere are two iso files "firmware-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" and " firmware-edu-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" which is may I use ?
12:22<sney>edu is for schools, as the readme on that page says
12:23<linuxbee>nice,For personal use "firmware-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso" is fine .
12:24<sney>yes
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12:30<linuxbee>One thing more regarding to partition schemeI want to discuss that I normally create 1- boot partition 1 GB 2- root partition 65 GB ,3- Swap partition 8 GB, 4- Rest of the space home partition. The question is it is good approach ?Swap should be 2nd last and last will be home partition .Please guide me .
12:30<bremner>I think if you don't know for sure, then creating less partitions is better
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12:31<bremner>I guess actually you have a fairly minimal set of partitions.
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12:37*imMute would probably use a swapfile instead of a whole partition. (/me also doesn't use swap at all, so YMMV)
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12:38<minimal>bremner: yes I do :-)
12:38<enigma9o7[m]>If only one distro, swap partition not a lot of benefit.
12:38<enigma9o7[m]>But if booting multipe distro, they all can use one swap partition.
12:38<enigma9o7[m]>If I understand right...
12:39<imMute>yeah that's right. I think I read somewhere that swap storage is/can be used for hibernation, so if that's true, then you can't share.
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12:41<linuxbee>i am using 8 GB Ram
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12:42<linuxbee>i never use hibernation but i use video edition software like kdenlive
12:42<linuxbee>which need good ram and also use virtualbox
12:43<enigma9o7[m]>imMute's point was that if yo had two distros using one swap partition, and hibernated one, then booted the other, it would kill the hibernated state cuz it would overwrite the swap partition with new data.
12:43<alexrelis>I don't use swap. It is not useful if you have full disk encryption configured and 32 GBs of memory.
12:43<enigma9o7[m]>whereas if each distro had its own swap file, that problem avoided.
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12:44<yanmaani>swap is a total waste
12:44<alexrelis>Also, every time my older systems cached to swap space, it would end up being slow as molasses due to the limited read/write speeds of interal hard drives compared to RAM.
12:44<scorpion2185[m]>but do you need swap for hibernation ?
12:44<yanmaani>alexrelis: I mean, you can encrypt the swap :P
12:44<linuxbee>i am only using Debian
12:44<yanmaani>but it's still a waste
12:44<scorpion2185[m]>unless you use zram?
12:44<alexrelis>yanmaani: you can, but then you can't hibernate.
12:44<yanmaani>what you want is zram
12:44<enigma9o7[m]>You dont need a swap partition for hibernation. you need swap partition or swap file tho.
12:44<enigma9o7[m]>as fara s Iknow.
12:44<yanmaani>alexrelis: What?? They haven't solved that?!
12:45<alexrelis>It's may be possible with a keyfile if I'm not mistaken, but it's not practical.
12:45<scorpion2185[m]>swap file?
12:45<enigma9o7[m]>if you dont create a swap partition during installation, then you're automatically use a swap file. you can disable it or resize it etc later, but it starts out that way at least....
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12:46<scorpion2185[m]>how do you check resize that file?
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12:47<enigma9o7[m]>with dd
12:47<Sqrt{Not}>8 GB of real memory is not a lot for today's systems, if you are doing more than one thing at a time, or doing anything memory intensive
12:47<enigma9o7[m]>easier to web search and find answer that convince someone to type it
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12:48<Sqrt{Not}>some people like to have swap space, to allow multi-tasking; other people prefer the OOM-killers, which kill some of your processes when memory is used up.
12:49<FLD>best is to have enough memory to not need either
12:49<scorpion2185[m]>does swap file allow you to hibernate sO?
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12:51<enigma9o7[m]>yes
12:51<Sqrt{Not}>that's right -- "65K should be enough for anyone"
12:52<scorpion2185[m]>can you use zram? since it's ram I suppose ypou cANNot
12:52<enigma9o7[m]>of course you can
12:52<enigma9o7[m]>i think its probably enabled y default isnt it? maybe not.
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12:52<enigma9o7[m]>been a long time since i played with setting that, thats more useful if you have very little ram
12:53<enigma9o7[m]>or i guess if you're swapping to disk a lot
12:54<enigma9o7[m]>I have 8GB and i hardly swap at all, it just depends how you manage things, do you have 100 tabs open at at time or ten, etc, do you close things when you're not using them or leave tons of crap open, do you want lots of VMs open at once, etc
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13:00<linuxbee>no
13:00<FelixActually>Changing the label of a partition won't wipe the data on it, right?
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13:08<linuxbee>How can I resize the swap file after Debian installation ?
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13:09<enigma9o7[m]>swapoff, dd, swapon; paste that question into browser for step by step
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13:12<linuxbee>Thanks for guiding me.Appriciate all :)
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13:15<FelixActually>If I change the label of a partition, will the data be wiped on that partition?
13:16<enigma9o7[m]>ya thats the quickest way to wipe stuff if the man comes in while yer hacking, change the label. its like ultimate wipe tool.
13:16<FelixActually>You're mocking me, aren't you?
13:17<enigma9o7[m]>wait no im wrong... it just changes the label
13:17<enigma9o7[m]>my mistake
13:17<enigma9o7[m]>im sorry
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13:18<FelixActually>Perhaps I should have been more clear I was joking...
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13:23<famubu>Hi. I installed debian standard version (without a desktop env) on a computer. How can we connect to a wifi connection with a captive portal using it? Tried `service NetworkManager restart` from a post online but it says no such service.
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13:23<famubu>Or wifi connection not possible in this installation?
13:23<famubu>Tethering from a phone didn't work either.
13:24<famubu>Ethernet works though. But still captive portal log in is required. Since there are no browsers (lynx/links/elinks etc), can't give the password (or is there a way?)
13:25<sney>you are probably missing firmware for your wifi device, this happens a lot
13:26<sney>look in dmesg to see which driver is complaining about missing firmware, then connect to ethernet and install the relevant package from non-free.
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13:26<sney>for instance if it's iwlwifi (intel), you would install firmware-iwlwifi, if it's realtek you would install firmware-realtek, etc
13:27<sney>!non-free sources
13:27<dpkg>Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
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13:33<famubu>I had tried with xfce image and there wifi was working fine. Wifi is realtek. Laptop is a thinkpad E series.
13:34<famubu>The problem in the case of ethernet is that it requires a captive portal log in..(auto) fam@ubu:~/gits/website-src$ git add wip/blog/ghdl.org
13:34<famubu>Oops..
13:34<famubu>😬
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13:35<famubu>Tried searching for ways to log in via terminal but most them needed extra software..
13:35<famubu>is there a way around that?
13:36<famubu>Couldn't find anything that looked like a wifi error in dmesg (but then I'm not that familiar with dmesg output..)
13:39<sney>it wouldn't be a wifi error as the driver has not loaded yet
13:40<sney>something like this will usually show it, 'dmesg |grep -i firmware'
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13:40<sney>the other option is to use an installer that has the firmware already included,
13:40<sney>!firmware image
13:40<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>.
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13:42<gothenburg>:D
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13:48<famubu>I'm using the installer with firmware included. One of the non-official versions from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.1.0+nonfree/amd64/
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13:50<famubu>dmesg | grep firmware shows 2 messages that seem to say realtek wifi firware were loaded all right.
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13:51<famubu>Like "rtw_8822ce firmware: direct-loading firmware"
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13:51<famubu>Thought rtw stood for realtek wireless..
13:55<famubu>ifquery -l shows wifi and ethernet. Doing ifup on them shows 'interface already configured'.
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14:11<scorpion2185[m]>@enigma9o7:matrix.org: I mean can zram make you hibernate? no swap .
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14:34<sney>famubu: well, if the driver is loaded, then you should just need to configure the interface. I'm not sure how to deal with a captive portal from the command line, but maybe something involving curl? there's a general rundown of ifupdown usage here, https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Using_ifupdown
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14:37<Sqrt{Not}>captive portal
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14:54<scorpion2185[m]>why lxsession-logout doesn t use my custom i3lock?
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15:26<petn-randall>FelixActually: Yes. Also read the fineprint about it. I'd also recommend trying it out once with a loop-mounted file to be safe.
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15:47<alexrelis>What's the best way to rip DVD-Audio albums in Debian?
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15:50<alexrelis>And by DVD, I don't mean DVD movies. I'm talking about music released on DVD. Should I just use Handbrake?
15:51<vlt>alexrelis: Have you tried abcde?
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15:53<Sqrt{Not}>famubu, you mentioned lynx earlier -- it is available in debian: sudo apt install lynx
15:55<alexrelis>vlt: I use abcde all the time to rip Audio CDs. Did not know they worked with DVD-A as well.
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15:57<vlt>alexrelis: Me neither :D
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16:32<FelixActually>petn-randall: What do you mean by "trying it out once with a loop-mounted file to be safe"
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16:33<mason>FelixActually: Create a "disk" with a loop device. Partition it. Put stuff there. Change the label. Observe.
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16:34<FelixActually>Oh, I thought that was in reference to cryptsetup
16:34<mason>Oh, maybe, dunno. I scrolled back until I saw something you'd said that could be tested this way, for context.
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16:35<mason>Good way to test cryptsetup too, sure.
16:35<mason>(Local equivalent, I'd just create a zvol, but you'd need ZFS for that.)
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16:36<FelixActually>What would I need to test about cryptsetup though?
16:37<mason>FelixActually: I didn't scroll back far enough to see where cryptsetup came in. Dunno.
16:37<FelixActually>I was asking about how to back up the header stuff previously
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17:30<kb3ien>My raspberry pi (32 bit raspberry pi os) is not spawning LOGIN. This system (debian 10.9)
17:31<kb3ien>is using systemd. How do I figure out what is stalling?
17:31<kb3ien>(I can SSH in)
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17:39<sussudio>how are you ssh'ing in if login isn't spawning.
17:39<mason>Has to be getting past network and sshd.
17:40<mason>kb3ien: journalctl -xe maybe
17:40<mason>Or systemctl status whatever-Debian-calls-getty-under-systemd
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17:45<kb3ien>console0 hasn't spawned a login.
17:46<kb3ien>multi-user.target loaded inactive dead start Multi-User System
17:46<kb3ien>getty.target loaded inactive dead start Login Prompts
17:46<kb3ien>graphical.target loaded inactive dead start Graphical Interface
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17:55<kb3ien>I don't want to start X, it's not needed, I think that's 'graphical.target' I removed it, as it installed by default.
17:55<mason>kb3ien: systemctl set-default multi-user.target
17:56<mason>you shouldn't need to delete anything
17:57<mason>Think of it like /etc/inittab's id line, only via dbus. If you haven't set it, I'm not sure how it'd behave.
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17:58<imMute>mason: IIRC /usr/whatever has a default installed by debian (that points to graphical.target). when you do set-default that creates something in /etc/systemd/whatever that overrides the /usr one
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17:58<kb3ien>Tried that, systemctl set-default multi-user.target - no change it the running system.
17:59<mason>imMute: Ah, kk. Hrm. kb3ien: does a raw "systemctl status" show any red?
17:59<kb3ien>State is still State: starting
17:59<imMute>set-default doesn't change anything immediately, you need to reboot to see it's effects
18:00<kb3ien>looks like its blocking.
18:00<mason>Oh, that's an idea. 'systemctl isolate multi-user.target'
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18:02<kb3ien>oh, joy, "Failed to start Raise network interfaces." again.
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18:07<kb3ien>Im' not keen on network start errors causing login to break.
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18:07<kb3ien>Fortunately it's not as broken as systemd wants to tell me, as I CAN login via SSH.
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18:13<kb3ien>Not sure the inet attributes for the interface that wont start are address, network, broadcast,netmask; the inet6 are just address,netmask.
18:13<kb3ien>there is a post-up
18:14<kb3ien>the post-up script ran. so that's unlikely the cause.
18:14<kb3ien>but I get this : ifup: failed to bring up wl_cg
18:15<kb3ien> it's an alias to a wifi chip, such that the name bears some relevance to the ESSID.
18:18<kb3ien>I'm a lot less worried about why it didn't start, than why I cannot login.
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18:24<mason>kb3ien: This is not something I'd recommend as a long-term solution but I'd be thinking about driving a getty out of rc.local until you resolve the larger problem.
18:25<kb3ien>~.
18:26<mason>You *say* that.
18:27<kb3ien>Not a systemd fan, nor a guru, how does one make the console login start even if networking "fails". Honestly I don't know for how long it's been broken, but the console issue is new after a recent upgrade.
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18:27<kb3ien>can systemd be told to start it anyway.
18:28<kb3ien>I suppose I can settup meta-break to force the creation of a new login instance.
18:28<mason>kb3ien: I'm guessing it *has* been told to start it and is failing somehow. But, like, /sbin/getty 38400 tty1 in rc.local might be worth a try.
18:28<mason>Or just in a root login, to see if it works.
18:29<mason>Then there ought to be some service failing that you should be able to find, assuming everything installed correctly.
18:29<spawacz>try "systemctl status getty" and press tab to complete
18:29<spawacz>it's gonna say getty@tty1 or something if it's up
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18:30<kb3ien>there is a service called getty@tty1.service : Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)...Active: inactive (dead)
18:31<kb3ien>weirder and weirder.
18:31<kb3ien>BBL
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18:40<spawacz>maybe check "systemctl status", it's gonna print how many units have failed
18:40<spawacz>maybe it's something else, earlier in the boot
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18:46<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, if possible to anyone, answer me this: https://paste.debian.net/1221901/
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18:47<mason>r4fkramer: Debian does a decent job with a minimal install.
18:49<r4fkramer>mason, thank you very much for answering this. In this case, I used the largest image available
18:49<mason>r4fkramer: The image from which you install is largely unrelated to the sort of system you install.
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18:51<r4fkramer>Ok, so could you please explain me about the 1st answer you gave me ? 'Debian does a decent job with a minimal install' ?
18:53<r4fkramer>Or suggest me any specific link for research ? I tried to find this answer in debian reference manual, but there is any about it over there.
18:54<mason>r4fkramer: Hrm. Maybe look at debootstrap's notion of "minbase" and what packages are absolutely required.
18:55<r4fkramer>Fine mason, I'll do it now. Thank you very much for information given :)
18:55<mason>r4fkramer: Also:
18:55<mason>r4fkramer: apt-cache dumpavail | less
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18:56<r4fkramer>hum, one apt-cache command. Thank you !
18:56<mason>and look at Priority. And shuffle through some apt docs. The minimum required system is tiny, and there are different options for adding more that can accomodate using more or less disk space.
18:58<r4fkramer>OK mason, I'll develop this additional research also. I really need to understand it better. Nice to see you here again :)
18:58<mason>Likewise.
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22:12-!-bahamat is "Brian Bennett" on #debian
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23:49<jim>hi, I just installed smartmontools, and looked it over (looked at the list of files, looked at the conf file, and it appears the conf file is a sample), do I need to edit that file to have it monitor specific disks? or how does that work? (I looked for man pages, and read some of man smartd)
23:49<jim>or,
23:50<jim>is there a man page that describes what I should do? does dpkg-reconfigure smartmontools do anything?
23:52<somiaj>I don't know any of those answers, but have you check /usr/share/doc/smartmontools, there is sometimes extra info in there
23:53<jim>not yet, good thought tho
23:55-!-lucasmsoares96 [~lucas@2804:431:c7ca:e459:c4b0:51ff:95d1:bbbb] has joined #debian
23:55-!-lucasmsoares96 is "Lucas Martins Soares" on #debian
23:56<jim>thalooking into yjat now
23:57<jim>oh, as I started to say, thanks for responding
---Logclosed Sat Dec 04 00:00:30 2021