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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-06

---Logopened Mon Dec 06 00:00:33 2021
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00:42<ml|>.bye
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02:38<sodo>i used debian for a long while and i want to do some clean-up
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02:38<sodo>so how can i list packages that i manually installed
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02:39<sodo>i lost my initial-status.gz
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02:39<sodo>can somebody give me?(debian stable xfce upgraded to sid)
02:41<at0m>would be the same command in sid, but..
02:41<at0m>!sid
02:41<dpkg>sid is probably the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
02:41<at0m>!testing
02:41<dpkg>Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bookworm>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net; ask me about <testing faq> <bullseye->bookworm> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical!
02:42<sodo>at0m: but while i can list manually installed packages
02:43<sodo>i lost my initial-status.gz so i can't remove packages from list that was there by install
02:43<at0m>,i deborphan
02:43<judd>Package deborphan (admin, optional) in bullseye/amd64: program that can find unused packages, e.g. libraries. Version: 1.7.33; Size: 103.6k; Installed: 347k
02:43<sodo>thx ill try
02:44<sodo>will it remove library, dev packages that once been used to build some codes?>
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02:44-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-next
02:44<somiaj>apt list '~i!~M' to list manually installed packages
02:44<at0m>sodo: also, apt-mark showmanual
02:45<somiaj>also if you are running sid, please use #debian-next
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02:45<sodo>apt-mark showmanual also shows packages that was installed by debian installer
02:45<at0m>sodo: deborphan only shows, it does not remove any packages
02:45<somiaj>they are all marked as manual installed
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02:46<sodo>at0m: will it show then?
02:46<at0m>try it
02:47<at0m>sodo: it doesn't list manually installed packages, but shows packages for which it sees no reason as to why they would be installed
02:47<at0m>could be auto installed packages from which the parent has since been removed
02:47<sodo>it can be removed by using apt autoremove
02:48<somiaj>note, deborphan only looks at libaries by default
02:48<sodo>but i want to list some packages like libxxx or libxxx-dev that was once manually installed but no longer used
02:48<somiaj>but you can pass it flags to look at other things, though be careful
02:49<at0m>somiaj: doesn't just show lib*, maybe packages no longer in the repo's, too
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02:49<at0m>like here it also lists qemu, dnsutils
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02:50<sodo>it seems to fit what i want
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02:50<at0m>:)
02:51<sodo>it listed out musl which i manually installed to fix issue with gdrive but not using anymore
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02:51<at0m>as always when removing a bunch of stuff, i would manually review all removals
02:51<sodo>and llvm compiler that i used before i upgraded to sid
02:51<sodo>at0m: yes
02:52<at0m>sodo: then, after that, apt autoremove might show a bunch of other packages that were only installed for those
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02:57<descartes>`apt list ?obsolete` is good too, for cleaning up old package versions
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02:57<descartes>Only shows installed packages without a repository in sources.list. Like if you removed the buster repo when upgrading to bullseye
02:58<at0m>descartes: oh, neat
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02:58<sodo>descartes: seems i have to run apt upgrade before doing that command
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02:59<sodo>to make it clear
02:59<hildebrand>1:28 PM <1719• hildebrand> I bought a new hp win11 laptop. To try I booted with knoppix live but not able to access the disk as it says it is encrypted. How to work around that? Will I be able to install and use debian 11??
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03:00<sodo>hildebrand: change some bios settings? idk
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03:01<hildebrand>Will need to check. I did not do any such setting. I have set aside 48GB for debian but would like to access the windows disk too
03:02<at0m>hildebrand: if that win11 partition takes up all of the physical harddrive, you won't be able to make a partition for debian until you find some way to shrink the windows partition
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03:02<hildebrand>I already shrinked it to get 48gb free
03:02<at0m>oh, you set aside 48GB? unpartitioned space? or part of the win11 partition?
03:02<at0m>ok
03:02<hildebrand>Unpartitioned space
03:02<at0m>and you can access that, i guess
03:02<at0m>right, once partitioned
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03:03<at0m>one way would be to create part of that as a fat32 partition which both win and deb can use
03:04<at0m>say, 20GB for debian, 28GB shared fat32 or at least unencrypted ntfs
03:04<hildebrand>I should be able to once I partition but My worry is for accessing the windows partition. I have never done a dual boot with win11 so was a bit apprehensive. Hence was trying with knoppix first to try out things.
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03:04-!-Tas-sos is "Anastasios Lisgaras" on #debian-nyc #debian-vim #debian-desktop #skolelinux #debian-edu #debian-apache #debian-ai #debian-academy #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
03:04<hildebrand>No all my important files are on the NTFS one which I need access for.
03:06<at0m>hildebrand: linux's os-prober will make grub let you choose between win/deb, like in your case, where win11 was installed first. if win11 is installed later, and deb first, win11's bootmanager will not show the debian. in your case, it looks good in that respect
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03:07<hildebrand>Yes I understand that. Issue is now how to access the windows encrypted partition from the Linux?
03:07<hildebrand>I am using debian since woody but win11 is new for me
03:08<hildebrand>When I try to access that partition with knoppix it asks for a password. I don't know how to get that password
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03:10<sodo>hildebrand: idk but i guess it's same as "BitLocker recovery key"
03:11<hildebrand>How to get it?
03:11<sodo>i searched on my phone, there's official guide by MS
03:11<hildebrand>I don't know what's bitlocker recovery key. I prefer old fashioned simple ways ☺️
03:12<at0m>maybe https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/finding-your-bitlocker-recovery-key-in-windows-6b71ad27-0b89-ea08-f143-056f5ab347d6
03:12<at0m>"BitLocker recovery key is a unique 48-digit numerical password" not sure if that'll work for knoppix
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03:16<sodo>btw does recent laptops come with BitLocker on by default?, sound's horrible
03:17<at0m>sodo: yea. win11 requires that TPM, afaik
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03:24<cetil>whats up everybody
03:24<hildebrand>Thanks at0m for the link. I will check it out afterwards
03:26<cetil>hey I dont know if this topic goes here, but as no ones talking about something else, let me ask you for help
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03:28<cetil>I dualbooted my laptop with Ubuntu and Windows 10, but when I restart, I dont get a select options, it just boots into win10,
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03:29<somiaj>well this is debian, not ubuntu or windows.
03:30<somiaj>though you might need to use a live image to recover your ubuntu install so it boots (or maybe you can select the efi file from your efi partition with your firmware), either way ubuntu support should help you with this since you aren't running debian
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03:31*at0m mumbles smth about reinstalling grub from live .iso
03:32<somiaj>though with efi, often times that isn't needed, just look at your various boot options
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03:39*scorpion2185[m] uploaded an image: (18KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/SCZNiFqcjRigAWSqReLcZiie/2021-12-06_09-35-12.png >
03:39<scorpion2185[m]>telegram-desktop doesn't work anymore
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03:43<scorpion2185[m]>already not working
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03:44<NTduck>@scorpion2185 telegram-desktop is working but it is like stick on the mousepointer?
03:45<NTduck>and no reaction on mousewheel?
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03:46<at0m>scorpion2185[m]: the version from debian repo's may now be rejected from their servers. i installed their flatpak to continue using it on desktop..
03:48<at0m>for days the debian version had been nagging: "update, update!". also bpo didn't cut it, so i went flatpak
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04:17<odesportes> Hi there, may someone help me getting rid of an annoying device naming problem with mdadm? I need this raid device to be named /dev/md5, I don't want any homehost name prefix in the superblock, nor a subdirectory /dev/md/. How can I achieve that ? (superblock 1.2)
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04:20<raven523>you shouldn't rely on numbered devices in /dev having persistent numbering. You should use devices by uuid instead
04:21<raven523>or make a udev rule to give this device a persistent name that isn't in /dev/md#
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04:28<odesportes>raven523: I hear you. But I'm tasked with making the device names consistent in a set of servers. They all have /dev/md2, /dev/md4 and /dev/md5 names. No /dev/md/ directory. No "namehost:name" output with "mdadm --examine --scan " as I do have with this one machine
04:29<raven523>I don't know of a way to achieve that. Someone else here might know
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04:30<odesportes>raven523: hopefully. Thank you anyway :)
04:31<raven523>if you could use some other names besides md<number> then udev rules that match the uuid would be perfect
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04:32<odesportes>raven523: possibly, but I really need the raid devices names consistent between machines.
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04:33<petn-randall>odesportes: Have you considered changing /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf?
04:33<petn-randall>odesportes: I also recommend having a bootable USB device nearby, in case the machine doesn't boot anymore from any changes.
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04:37<odesportes>petn-randall: I use the mdadm.conf that is generated byt mdadm --examine --scan. As far as I understand this file doesn't name devices. Device names are stored in the superblock. It just helps the raid assembly. BTW this server is hosted, and an USB key wouldnt be very helpful :p Anyway it's not yet in production, so I can start over from scratch if needed
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04:52<petn-randall>odesportes: That file does define the name of the devices. See `man mdadm.conf` for details.
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04:57<odesportes>petn-randall: this is what man mdadm.conf says: "The value should be a simple textual name as was given to mdadm when the array was created. This must match the name stored in the superblock on a device for that device to be included in the array."
04:58<odesportes>So I'm scratching my head...
04:58<petn-randall>odesportes: That's to identify the device which belong to that array, not to name the array.
04:59<petn-randall>odesportes: "ARRAY The ARRAY lines identify actual arrays. The second word on the line may be the name of the device where the array is normally assembled, such as /dev/md1 or /dev/md/backup."
04:59<petn-randall>odesportes: You skipped that part. ^
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05:04<odesportes>petn-randall: oh I see. How could I missed that thanks
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05:09<odesportes>Now, how to remove the namehost prefix in the superblock name part? I've tried "any" but it just says "any:md5" now. I need it to be just "md5" with no prefix whatsoever.
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05:17<petn-randall>odesportes: Try passing ''?
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05:35<odesportes>petn-randall: Thanks. Worked. I had to create once again. I couldn't find a way to set namehost='' with assemble --update=namehost. But it works at last thanks.
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05:37<petn-randall>odesportes: Glad it worked. It probably didn't work the first time because the setting is called "homehost".
05:38<odesportes>petn-randall: yeah sorry homehost, tried this very setting actually, to no avail
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06:04<sodo>https://imgur.com/6mLWh2p.png
06:04<sodo>how can i fix this error
06:06<petn-randall>!bat
06:06<dpkg>[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
06:06<petn-randall>sodo: Can you provide all the info above in a single paste? ^^^
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06:07<themill>sodo: #debian-next might be a better place to ask, and the answer might be that "testing is called testing for a reason".
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06:26<Tas-sos>I installed the Pi-Hole in a raspberry Pi and I setup them to run also as DHCP server in my LAN
06:27<Tas-sos>I also set some specific DNS servers in order to avoid some DNS block from my ISP, but
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06:28<Tas-sos>my desktop computer - with Debian GNU/Linux 10, when I try to visit a blocked web site from my ISP I cannot visit
06:28<Tas-sos>but from a iPhone smartphone, when it is connected to my WiFi can connect to this specific website without any block
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06:29<Tas-sos>so.. why my desktop with Debian GNU/Linux doesn't can ?
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06:29<Tas-sos>maybe has some cached DNS ?
06:29<Tas-sos>any help ?
06:29<sodo>what happened
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06:31<petn-randall>Tas-sos: /etc/resolv.conf defines how your desktop resolves domain names. There you can see which name server it uses.
06:31<Tas-sos>my desktop with Debina GNU/Linux doesn't ask about the dns queries my local rapsberry pi ( with Pi-Hole )
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06:32<Tas-sos>nameserver fe80::1%enp10s0
06:33<Tas-sos>nameserver 192.168.2.2
06:33<Tas-sos>this ip ==> 192.168.2.2 its OK! That's the IP from my rapsberry PI ( with Pi-Hole )
06:34<petn-randall>Tas-sos: fe80::1 is a machine on the local network addressable via IPv6.
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06:36<Tas-sos>OK.. I'm not sure which exactly is, but.. ok (maybe localhost or raspberry pi )
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06:44<Tas-sos>Interesting... but I don't now exactly why..
06:45<Tas-sos>When I do this in my laptop ( where I also have the same problem ) in order to disable IPv6 :
06:45<Tas-sos>https://www.itzgeek.com/amp/how-tos/linux/debian/how-to-disable-ipv6-on-debian-9-ubuntu-16-04.html
06:45<Tas-sos>then I connect in the page which I want because uses the DSN from raspbery pi ( pi-hole )
06:48<Tas-sos>So the problem is the IPv6 ?
06:49<petn-randall>Tas-sos: The problem is probably that you didn't configure the things correctly. I advise against disabling IPv6, you'll need that in the long run.
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06:53<Tas-sos>from the side of Pi-Hole ?
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06:54<geek03>Hi everyone ...
06:54<Tas-sos>about IPv6 yes probaply in the feature its important.. but it seems to also get some problems with it.. :-/
06:54<petn-randall>Tas-sos: I assume yes, if I understand your setup correctly also the IPv6 address should point to your pihole.
06:55<geek03>I have a question
06:55<petn-randall>Tas-sos: The problem is that you've only set up half of your pihole, IPv6 is not part of the problem.
06:55<petn-randall>geek03: ask away
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06:56<geek03>Have anyone in this forum have had issues with nvidia cards that are not supported anymore?
06:57<petn-randall>!anyone
06:57<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
06:57<petn-randall>!ask
06:57<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
06:57<geek03>Ok. Thanks I will
06:58<cc>which card geek03
06:58<geek03>I have a Nvidia FX 4800 card that ONLY works properly in Cinnamon
06:59<geek03>None of the other DE's works
06:59<cc>https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver
07:00<cc>looks supported to me
07:00<cc>Quadro 4000 [GF100GL] ?
07:00<cc>oh, sorry, 4800
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07:00<geek03>In Cinnamon screen manages 1920x1080 solution. Is there a way to make it work in Gnome Mate Xfce?
07:00<petn-randall>geek03: What "doesn't work" about them?
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07:01<cc>the debian page may be incomplete
07:01<cc>according to nvidia, it is supported
07:01<cc>https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/legacy-gpu/
07:02<cc>The 390.xx driver supports the following set of GPUs. ... Quadro FX 4800 0x05FE
07:02<cc>so, should work, at least in theory
07:02<geek03>I get 1680 x something in the other DE
07:03<geek03>I have tried to install the 390 driver - screen turns black
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07:03<geek03>And failmessages at boot
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07:04<cc>you need either it or nouveau, and from personal experience I would not trust nouveau with anything really
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07:05<geek03>And when I search for FX 4800 i Synaptic noveau turns up. Noveau is great in Cinnamon
07:06<cc>so it seems like your real problem is "how do I install nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver properly"
07:06<geek03>Yes partly
07:06<geek03>You're right
07:08<cc>follow the instructions https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_390.144-2
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07:09<geek03>Oh thank you
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07:09<geek03>I'll try that one
07:09<geek03>Guess I need to read code of conduct ;)
07:10<descartes>geek03: 340xx proprietary drivers were dropped in Bullseye which supported my NVIDIA 9800GT. I have to use nouveau now.
07:10<geek03>Thanks cc and all. great forum
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07:11<geek03>Thanks
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07:12<cc>oh
07:12<cc>there are in fact multiple lists on https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/legacy-gpu/
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07:12<cc>and Quadro FX 4800 is in fact under 340.xx list
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07:14<cc>https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver is in unstable
07:14<cc>but not in stable
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07:14<at0m>,v nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver
07:14<judd>Package: nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver on amd64 -- stretch-backports/non-free: 340.107-2~bpo9+1; stretch/non-free: 340.108-3~deb9u1; buster/non-free: 340.108-3~deb10u1; buster-backports/non-free: 340.108-10~bpo10+1; sid/non-free: 340.108-11
07:15<cc>quite an interesting situation
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07:16<descartes>Wow, weird, I didn't notice it was in unstable, thanks.
07:16<cc>migrating to unstable seems like the only workable solution
07:19<jm_>,checkbackport nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver
07:19<judd>Backporting package nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver in sid→bullseye/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using bullseye.
07:20<cc>nvidia stuff is split into around a zillion packages
07:20<cc>backporting that manually would be an Adventure(tm)
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07:22<jm_>last time I had to do it it was rather trivial
07:24<descartes>I've backported a package before. I think I'll stick with nouveau, it's better than last time I tried it ages ago. And the 340xx proprietary drivers don't support EGL (Runescape requires EGL now), while nouveau does.
07:25<cc>are you sure?
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07:25<cc>one of the zillion packages is: libnvidia-legacy-340xx-eglcore/unstable 340.108-11 amd64 NVIDIA binary EGL core libraries (340xx legacy version)
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07:26<descartes>Yes that's what I thought too but it is apparently for offscreen rendering. "Full EGL" or whatever isn't supported until v355 or so
07:27<descartes>Well, that 340xx egl package I mean doesn't support full EGL
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07:56<descartes>Well, maybe 'full EGL' was the wrong term. But writing directly to the screen instead of offscreen. It's in the release notes in the driver somwhere.
07:57<descartes>I've experienced unknowingly buying a counterfeit SD card on eBay recently. I want to give praise to the f3 tool `apt show f3` which clearly indicated the SD card was counterfeit.
07:58<descartes>But I'm now concerned about possibly being a victim to buying a counterfeit Bluetooth Dongle. A TP-Link UB400 which should support bluetooth 4.0. Doesn't connect to keyboard, and connects to mouse only <1m away, and gave the mouse a BD_ATTR of 00:00:00:00:00:00 which does not seem normal
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08:00<descartes>So... I really don't know if I have bluetooth set up right or how to figure out if the bluetooth dongle is counterfit. The mouse is a new M535 Logitech from Walmart.
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08:05<cc>I've never used bluetooth or otherwise wireless peripherials
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08:08<descartes>I'm new to bluetooth myself. #debian-bluetooth only has 2 people, didn't respond, so I tried here.
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08:21<minimal>descartes: I've gotten into the habit of running f3 on every new SDcard I buy
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08:38<descartes>Oops I meant BD_ADDR of 00:00:00:00:00:00, as in the bluetooth address of the mouse being all zeros. Not normal. Should be unique. I guess I could try TP-Link customer support, but wasn't sure if I had linux bluetooth set up wrong somehow or something.
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08:58<andrew__>hello!
08:58<andrew__>chat is working ?
08:58<bremner>yes
08:58<bremner>!ask
08:58<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
08:58<andrew__>))) good day! i want to be debian developer. better to kernel side because i am embedded system developer
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08:59<andrew__>can anybody tell me how may i do it ?
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08:59<bremner>!how-can-i-help
08:59<dpkg>Want to help out with Debian and become more involved in the Debian project? The tools wnpp-alert, rc-alert (both from the devscripts package) and how-can-i-help can provide inspiration on buggy or unmaintained packages that you have installed on your system. Ask me about <wnpp>, <rc-alert>, <devscripts>, <new maintainer guide>. https://debian.org/intro/help
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09:02<c2main>is there a recommended way to install linux debian on a new laptop where a windows is already there, and needed to keep it ? i.e: should I shrink windows partitions from windows or debian can do it ? And the debian-installer is able to too ?
09:03<c2main>!windows
09:03<dpkg>"PCs are like air conditioners, if you open Windows(R) they don't work." Support for Microsoft Windows operating systems is available in #windows on irc.libera.chat.
09:03<LtL>c2main: use windows to do it, leave unallocated space
09:04<c2main>LtL: what I though, tks.
09:04<LtL>thanks not tks, you're welcome
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09:14<hudo>I upgraded from buster , where copy/paste worked and after upgrade it does not work anymore. I tested already with autocutsel , but did not succeed. Any ideas ?
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09:52<petn-randall>hudo: Copy paste where exactly? And which cut buffer (ctrl+c/v or highlight/middle mouse click)? It might be that most GTK3 applications are running under wayland, where copy/paste behaves differently.
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10:00<hudo>petn-randall, I forgot to mention, the problem is copy/paste via VNC !! I tried all of them ctrl+c/v , highlight/middle mouse , ctrl+Input/shift+input.
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10:01<hudo>meanwhile I tend to locate the problem with the ultravnc-client-options on window.
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10:05<hudo>although I havent ultravnc-client options, there is now this copy/paste problem after the upgrade to bullseye.
10:05<hudo>although I havent changed ultravnc-client options, there is now this copy/paste problem after the upgrade to bullseye.
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10:08<c2main>mmhh, so the d-i bullseyes is not able to "auto partition" with encryption on the remaining free space.... it requires either manual setup or full disk... True ?
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10:24<ydbi>what's the right way of running firefox-esr with security updates on debian? Tarball from mozilla? Where should I unpack it to, so that it doesn't break anything else and will work in the future?
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10:25<jelly>I use tarball from mozilla, unpacked as user jelly into /opt/firefox, and a custom menu/panel entry
10:25<somiaj>ydbi: I'd just unpack it in $HOME and put a link to the binary in $HOME/bin (maybe call it both firefox and firefox-esr)
10:25<ydbi>mozilla doesn't provide a deb file, nor a repository, and snap/flatpak use regular firefox, not firefox-esr
10:25<somiaj>Note, this is assuming you only have a single user
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10:26<ydbi>and if I wanted it for multiple users, then I'd use /opt/firefox?
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10:26<somiaj>and put links in /usr/local/bin and possibaly create a custom .desktop file for it
10:26<ydbi>thank you, that should be enough info to get me started
10:26<jelly>ydbi, if multiple users, auto updates won't work for non-owner users
10:28<somiaj>And you might want to remove the firefox-esr package from debian (just to avoid conflicts with the firefox profile if someone were to run the wrong binary). If you have things that depend on firefox, you can use equivs
10:28<somiaj>!equivs
10:28<dpkg>equivs is a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>. A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs, ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>.
10:29<jelly>somiaj, there's no need to remove the package. Just don't start it.
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10:29<jelly>same profile will work with debian build and mozilla build of same version
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10:30<somiaj>sure, but if someone were to unintentially start it, it could corrupt the profile since debian esr and upstream esr are different now
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10:30<somiaj>though yea, only optional but something they might want to consider
10:30<jelly>unlikely
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10:30<jelly>and Firefox deals reasonably well when it finds a newer profile
10:31<jelly>s/newer profile/profile mangled by newer version/
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10:31<somiaj>ahh good to hear it is getting better. I've just seen issues with mixing versions in the past
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10:32<jelly>I still have a 45esr in a different dir and a separate profile
10:32<jelly>java plugins ftw :-(
10:33<jelly>this isn't the first time Debian fails to have a working, uptodate browser, and it might not be the last
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10:35<Karlton>is there something wrong with the bullseye firefox-esr package?
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10:38<at0m>Karlton: apart from being 6 versions behind on upstream?
10:38<jelly>it's outdated
10:39<jelly>it's not really "6 versions" but "2 months"
10:39<jelly>or even less
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10:39<jelly>chromium OTOH is lots of versions behind
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10:48<Karlton>looks like 78.14.0 in bullseye and 78.15.0 in bullseye security updates
10:48<Karlton>that's the latest version for the 78esr branch
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10:49<ydbi>someone told me browsers are getting removed from debian because they don't really belong in a stable distro like debian
10:49<ydbi>so that's why I'm looking at how to do it all myself
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10:55<jelly>Karlton, those got superseded by 91.3 esr a month ago. see: Past branch dates https://wiki.mozilla.org/Release_Management/Calendar
10:56<Karlton>oh I see, 78.15.0 is the last planned release and you are suppose to switch to ESR91
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11:01<somiaj>Karlton: It is hard to get newer versions into stable (due to debian policy), and I belive there are issues with building the new esr for stable, which is kinda making the version in debian lag. It still works, but one should understand that there are some open CVEs with it.
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11:01<somiaj>I think it has to do with rust and building firefox-esr with only stable utilities
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11:04<somiaj>or was it the newer firefox needs a newer version of mesa than in stable, something about it not being able to be built easily using bullseye libs
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11:08<petn-randall>IIRC rust was the issue, let me see if I find the ticket to it.
11:08<jelly>debian could be pragmatic and say "here's packages that _work_ on stable but use unstable to actuall build them"
11:11<petn-randall>#999604 and #1000472 are the relevant bugs for it.
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11:20<jelly>ah, so they are going the obvious way, backports for build-deps in a faster repo (-proposed-updates in this case)
11:21<jelly>and a separate rust package just for the browser. What fun.
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11:34<wwallace>how to run parallel ssh every n seconds like go to the first 5 wait 5 seconds and continue?
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11:35<petn-randall>!goal
11:35<dpkg>Describe your goal, not what you think the solution is.
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11:48<jorma>moin
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12:07<cpach>hi folks. what's a good cli client for pure SFTP?
12:07<cpach>in this case scp will not work since the user has no shell accesss.
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12:08<somiaj>I think lftp can do sftp...one second
12:08<somiaj>yea, lftp supports sftp, and I like that client for ftp
12:08<petn-randall>cpach: What about `sftp` from the openssh-client package?
12:09<cpach>petn-randall: it works, but the ui is not so convenient.
12:09<cpach>compared to scp.
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12:15<cpach>somiaj: ty!
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12:45<scorpion2185[m]>NTduck: no the app works but you can't send/receive new messages
12:46<scorpion2185[m]>at0m: it is , can't receive/send new messages.
12:46<drspas>is anyone able to babysit me through setting up firewall with fwbuilder gui? i really dont know what im doing and need to stop constant attacks
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12:47<scorpion2185[m]>,v telegram-desktop
12:47<judd>Package: telegram-desktop on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 1.1.23-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.5.11-1; buster-backports: 2.6.1+ds-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.6.1+ds-1+deb11u1; buster-backports-sloppy: 2.9.2+ds-1~bpo10+1; bullseye-backports: 3.1.1+ds-1~bpo11+1; bookworm: 3.1.1+ds-1; sid: 3.1.8+ds-1
12:48<scorpion2185[m]>BAckports may works
12:48<scorpion2185[m]>69 upgraded, 10 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
12:49<sney>drspas: I don't use fwbuilder so I can't give you a walkthrough, but in general principle: firewall rules are evaluated in order, top to bottom. so first create rules that allow the connections you need, and then create a rule that will deny/drop everything else
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12:51<drspas>@sney hi, you helped me a lot in the past. unfortunately i didnt fully explain how totally i dont know what im doing hence using gui tools. but thanks
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12:52<scorpion2185[m]>never mind I usep upgrade instead of install
12:53<scorpion2185[m]>!@
12:53<dpkg>@ is used to separate the username from the hostname in an email address, to denote channel operators on IRC, and to direct comments to particular users in some web forums. It is NOT used to direct comments on IRC; use "name: ..." instead of "@name ...".
12:54<drspas>sry
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12:56<drspas>so my interface is br0 and it ask for an address. is this my external static ip or internal ip or what?
12:57<sney>!idfma
12:57<dpkg>Insufficient Data For Meaningful Answer
12:58<drspas>just a small sample of how little i know
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12:58<sney>look, firewalls are not a super simple topic right away, maybe you can find a template online to modify for your purposes rather than trying to build one from scratch
12:59<drspas>there are templates in fwbuilder but none seem to fit
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12:59<sney>your use case is probably less special than you think, take one that seems close-ish and go from there
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13:01<drspas>so template 1 is an external ip that goes to an internal ip. so i guess it filters then adds a 1 in place of 0 in the 3rd place of the ip
13:03<drspas>my task is to filter out ip from countries that mess with me. india, sudan, etc. constantly downloading my entire server again and again
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13:04<drspas>i dont want to affect access to my vm's samba or other stuff. just apache
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13:10<seabass>Hello! I'm running Debian 11 with Xfce; it's a mostly clean installation with very little else. When I run `xdg-mime query default audio/mpeg`, it shows that the default program for audio/mpeg is QuodLibet.
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13:11<seabass>Where could it have come to this conclusion? There's no type defined for audio/mpeg in any of the `mimeapps.list` or `defaults.lists` that it checks.
13:12<petn-randall>seabass: There a config app for xfce4 where you can set default apps. My guess it's from there.
13:12<seabass>petn-randall, indeed, it shows up on that. In fact, QuodLibet is listed in /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache, but it seems odd that there'd be a cache file with everything in it and no mimeapps.list file
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13:13<aucahuasi>hi, how do i make kdesrc-build stop using all my cpu cores?
13:14<seabass>petn-randall: well, it seem as if update-desktop-database makes that cache file by scanning all the .desktop files around and about, so maybe that's just how Debian does it :)
13:16<earendel>where will it look for the .desktop files?
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13:19<seabass>earendel: https://x0.at/XUhf.txt here's a paste :)
13:19<not9rm>hello
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13:19<seabass>earendel: not sure why there are those double slashes in the paths
13:19<not9rm>any one here
13:19<seabass>not9rm: hello :)
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13:21<Sqrt{Not}>aucahuasi, you might be able to use `ulimit`
13:21<sney>aucahuasi: it looks like you can change make options by setting MAKEOPTS, so you could do e.g. MAKEOPTS="-j2" kdesrc-build ; to only use 2 threads
13:22<aucahuasi>ty, and this MAKEOPTS would be a global setting right?
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13:22<sney>it's an environment variable so that depends on where you put it
13:22<sney>if you specify it on the command line while running kdesrc-build, it only applies for that command
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13:23<aucahuasi>awesome, thanks
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13:24<aucahuasi>also, how do I make kdesrc-build to not use ninja and use only normal unix make files?
13:24<aucahuasi>I guess that env var is only for make and not for ninja
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13:25<sney>right, I'm not sure if that's possible other than making sure the build system doesn't have ninja, which might just fail
13:25<sney>many projects use cmake or meson or whatever these days instead of autofoo, that's just progress I guess
13:26<sney>other build systems surely have similar options available, and kdesrc has its own configuration files where you can specify them. see this, or 'man kdesrc-build' on your system. http://manpages.org/kdesrc-build
13:26<aucahuasi>yeah, I mean I just want to make sure cmake can generate makefiles
13:26<aucahuasi>instead of ninja
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13:26<bremner>in general it can, yes
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13:36<aucahuasi>thanks!
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13:48<miracolix>einen schönen guten abend
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14:39<c2main>debian 11 still requires an non-encrypted /boot?
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14:40<Habbie>c2main, i don't know, but if not, i wonder what would decrypt /boot? something in EFI?
14:40<bremner>c2main: https://cryptsetup-team.pages.debian.net/cryptsetup/encrypted-boot.html
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14:41<Habbie>ah GRUB
14:41<Habbie>cool
14:42<bremner>perhaps there is something easier now. not sure.
14:43<c2main>interesting, bremner is it still better to have a distinct device ? (which is encrypted, but not an LVM member)
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14:44<c2main>will read, good starting point
14:45<somiaj>Grub has had supported encrypted boot for a few debian releases now, but it isn't widely used.
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14:45<somiaj>And unsure if there is any debian tools to help with it. You may end up on your own to get it to work
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14:46<sney>calamares can do it, that's how my system was installed
14:46<somiaj>c2main: I'm unsure what security gains you would get out of encrypting /boot vs just use secureboot
14:47<bremner>working on arm?
14:47<somiaj>sney: so nothing special needed to be done with update-grub to ensure grub had the correct configuration for this. This is where I thought there could be an issue
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14:48<sney>I have a single encrypted / volume, and the first thing I see after the lenovo splash is grub's unlock password prompt. it all just worked with no extra tinkering
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14:48<somiaj>though I guess this would be on the grub-install stage, since that is what would need to be able to read the encrypted /boot to do anything
14:49<bremner>sney: is your / luks1 or luks2?
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14:51<bremner>just curious if grub undertands luks2 now
14:51<sney>I don't know, it's whichever was used for bullseye live calamares (:
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14:51<bremner>hah. OK.
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14:53<sney>ah, cryptsetup says it's luks1
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14:53<bremner>thanks.
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14:59<bremner>ooc, what cryptsetup incantion?
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15:07<knghtbrd>somiaj: I'm not sure you gain anything, security-wise. If /boot is encrypted, it means someone can't modify/replace your ramdisk or kernel to do something nefarious. But those who can do that can also do it at the grub level, or at the IME level …
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15:08<knghtbrd>encrypting your root fs just creates a large haystack for anyone who has your drive or system without the opportunity to get at the means to unlock/access it
15:08<somiaj>hence why I was thinking secure boot can help there
15:09<knghtbrd>except secure boot is compromised itself
15:10<knghtbrd>And your IME/whatever AMD calls theirs operates at a level below that and runs a sekrit webserver …
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15:17<sney>bremner: me? it was 'cryptsetup status containername'
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15:36<scorpion2185[m]>at0m: backport version works
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15:49<at0m>scorpion2185[m]: i noticed from your ,v there's 3.x now, wasnt there when i checked couple days ago. thanks, good to hear it's in the repo's now!
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16:04<ppc64>desperate confusion. the file /etc/network/interfaces no longer works ?
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16:04<ppc64>or NetworkManager.service breaks that ?
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16:06<bremner>sney: oic, I was running status on the volumes
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16:06<bremner>which doesn't make any sense of course
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16:16<ppc64>anyone have an opinion on why /etc/network/interfaces no longer works ? is there a way to remove Network Manager ( Microsoft stuff? ) and remove the ConnMan service ?
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16:17<Habbie>Network Manager is not Microsoft stuff
16:17<ppc64>smells like it
16:18<ppc64>every help page and wiki page I see says to edit the old /etc/network/interfaces but that does not work .. it goes to DHCP every time
16:18<bremner>I suggest keeping trolling and requesting help for different channels.
16:19<ppc64>this lie stupid page https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration says to look in /etc/NetworkManager/ for config files. In Debian 11.1 that directory does not even exist !
16:19<ppc64>no .. Debian is dead .. dead .. gone / good bye
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16:19<bremner>!next
16:19<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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16:29<mason>He left before I could mention how ifupdown needs to be installed and works Just Fine. Oh well.
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16:31<bremner>and also the directory is probably not there because network manager is not installed. But some people don't actually want to be helped...
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16:47<luna>anyone has installed older NVIDIA drivers on Debian Bullseye?
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17:47<descartes>luna: I talked with others about that this morning, I've used 340xx up until they were dropped in Bullseye. 340xx is in unstable and jm_ said it was trivial to backport when he did it. Dunno if 340xx is what you're interested in.
17:48<descartes>,checkbackport nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver
17:48<judd>Backporting package nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver in sid→bullseye/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using bullseye.
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17:51<somiaj>descartes: most likely the reason 340xx was dropped was because it no longer compiles against the 5.10 kernel, and thus even if you backported it, it wouldn't do much good
17:51<somiaj>and most likely here nvidia has also dropped support and stopped fixing their non-free binaries to build against newer kernels.
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17:52<coconutmacaroon>I'm generating an SSH key for a Debian 11 server in Kleopatra (on Windows 10). I plan to use ed25519, but it also gave me an option to enable EDCH. What is that, and do I need it for an SSH key?
17:52<coconutmacaroon>So more generally, what is EDCH in SSH?
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17:53<ssdfan>Hi! I am having troubles with my new ADATA XPG8100 4 TB NVME SSD. It randomly fails and disappears from the system. The reason is NOT cooling/temperature, it may happen even at 40 Celsius when not loaded heavily. It may happen anytime from minutes to days after boot, dmesg looks like this: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/06ab469d/
17:54<ssdfan>ADATA SX8100NP
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17:55<coconutmacaroon>Just to check the obvious (1) is it properly seated in the slot
17:56<coconutmacaroon>Also, does it work properly with a LiveCD?
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17:57<ssdfan>coconutmacaroon is it about the ssd? yes, it is seated properly and works well... till one random moment when it fails
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17:58<coconutmacaroon>Does the issue happen with a liveCD? That is a good way to troubleshoot? @ssdfan
17:59<sarnold>ssdfan: does it work well in another machine?
18:00<ssdfan>Did not test, I have no other machines with nvme slot
18:00<sarnold>dang :(
18:00<ssdfan>I have old ones but no m.2 slots:(
18:01<sarnold>unreliable or flaky power supplies, power connectors, capacators on motherboards, etc, all can lead to funny effects like this, and being able to test in an entirely different machine can rule in or out a whole lot of things quickly
18:02<ssdfan>it seems like a software but either in linux or the ssd itself
18:03<ssdfan>it may dissappear not in a moment of load or hard heat
18:03<ssdfan>*software bug
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18:10<ssdfan_>Sorry, Internet failed for a minute. If anybody answered me please repeat.
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18:12<sarnold>ssdfan: the last we saw was "Mon 06 23:03:31 < ssdfan> *software bug
18:12<ssdfan>yes, I am here
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18:15<sney>ssdfan: sometimes nvme compatibility issues can be resolved with a motherboard efi update
18:15<ssdfan>bios update?
18:16<sney>yes
18:16<ssdfan>updated
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18:19<sney>unless you can reproduce it with another disk, it seems likely that it's a flaw with that device
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18:22<ssdfan>maybe a stress test will show what is the reason
18:22<ssdfan>?
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18:23<sney>yeah, especially if the vendor has some bootable utility, that would also help to qualify for a rma
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18:41<luna>my gfx card is so old it only works in Buster so installed latest Buster 10.11
18:41<sney>luna: please don't crosspost
18:41<luna>ok
18:41<sney>but yes, that happens eventually, esp with proprietary drivers
18:42<sney>buster will have support for a few more years.
18:45<Karlton>nouveau isn't so bad on some cards
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18:48<knghtbrd>luna: what GPU?
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18:48<luna>NVIDIA Geforce G105M
18:49<knghtbrd>ah, laptop
18:49<luna>yeah an older one
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18:51<knghtbrd>nouveau might be your best bet
18:51<luna>changed to buster as it was supported there
18:52<knghtbrd>!buster
18:52<dpkg>Buster is the codename for the <oldstable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06. "Buster" is Andy's pet Dachshund in Toy Story, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster . Ask me about <install buster>, <release notes>, <stretch->buster>. <apt suite changed>
18:52<knghtbrd>It's still sort of supported for now … but oldstable's basically not something I'd recommend
18:53<luna>yeah still supported until June 2024 atleast
18:53<knghtbrd>should be
18:53<knghtbrd>some things get hard to support unfortunately.
18:53<luna>installing backports now too
18:54<knghtbrd>good idea at this stage
18:55<knghtbrd>I'm very happy to encourage and support the use of old hardware LONG after other people have stopped … but dammit nvidia makes that really freaking difficult
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18:56<knghtbrd>…he says as reads about how to expand a Commodore 64 to 4MB of RAM
18:57<Karlton>I have an old hp9000 laptop with a 7600 Go nvidia card in it and nouveau works fine on it
18:57<Karlton>only thing missing is HDMI support
18:59<knghtbrd>that'd be pretty high on my list of things that need to not be missing
18:59<knghtbrd>HDMI wired up to an IGPU?
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18:59<descartes>Only trouble I had 10 years ago with nouveau was video playback in browser was choppy. Seems to have no problems now so I'm happy. And I get to play Runescape again because nouveau supports EGL but 340xx proprietary driver doesn't really. Also the kernel mode switching is nice, fast too.
19:00<descartes>So... more features with nouveau I guess.
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19:01<Karlton>it's an old big heavy laptop, I don't need HDMI
19:04<somiaj>and nouveau is about the best you can do with old nvidia hardware.
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19:05<knghtbrd>*sigh* The notion that target.com, a major retailer that wants to compete against the likes of amazon somehow, has a website that is utterly incompatible with any browser not made by Google, is unacceptable in 2021.
19:06<knghtbrd>That's begun to be a problem on the Internet in general.
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19:19<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, I'm experiencing an issue that I never faced before - related to installing a stable package in bullseye 11.1. In this case, it's about 'stacer': https://paste.debian.net/1222352/
19:19<bremner>yes, but not one we can help you with. #debian-rant exists though :)
19:19<bremner>tthat was for knghtbrd
19:20<r4fkramer>Please, how to fix this kind of issue ?
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19:21<bremner>it is possible you ran out of diskspace?
19:21<knghtbrd>it looks like it
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19:22<knghtbrd>r4fkramer: check df -h output. If / is full, or nearly full, we have suggestions for how to clear some disk space in a hurry
19:22<r4fkramer>It's a new debian installation in another usb stick 8gb storage: /dev/sdb1 ext4 5.5G 4.3G 918M 83% /
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19:23<knghtbrd>8GB? Ouch.
19:23<bremner>r4fkramer: and how much space in /tmp?
19:23<bremner>is it also on /?
19:24<r4fkramer>5,5 GB for / bremner.
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19:25<bremner>r4fkramer: my question was whether /tmp is a seperate partition, and if so how big
19:26<r4fkramer>I made it as another experience. I have a debian bullseye here runnning fine and fast in another 8gb usb stick - I'm afraid this is a pirate one
19:26<r4fkramer>no bremner, no /tmp separate partition - I created basic configuration for partition - everything in just one partition.
19:26<bremner>it is also possible your USB stick is just broken. Did you try running fsck?
19:27<r4fkramer>yes, and it runs slowly, if compated to the other; the first one runs very fast
19:27<r4fkramer>Let me check it here, bremenr, thanks for information
19:28<r4fkramer>yes, knghtbrd, just 8gb
19:28<bremner>others might have better ideas for checking for a bogus USB key
19:29<r4fkramer>But I'm just experiencing problems with this usb stick - probably, like bremner suspected, it's damaged. I gonna run fsck here
19:29<knghtbrd>USB sticks aren't great for installing R/W OSes on to
19:29<r4fkramer>please bremner, what do you think about 'badblocks -sv -c 1024 /dev/sdb ?
19:30<r4fkramer>rhia ia nipponic
19:30<knghtbrd>they typically lack wear leveling
19:30<r4fkramer>sorry, this is nipponic, not san disk, kingstom, etc
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19:32<knghtbrd>so fair bet that wear leveling are words the people who made it have never heard of?
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19:35<r4fkramer>knghtbrd, sorry, I can't follow you
19:35<r4fkramer>Please, bremner and knghtbrd: https://paste.debian.net/1222354/
19:35<r4fkramer>tmp is clear now
19:35<knghtbrd>r4fkramer: flash storage works like a big, slow memory, right?
19:36<r4fkramer>yes
19:36<r4fkramer>I'm repeating the process here: some libs weren't configured, but stacer was installed.
19:36<knghtbrd>Except flash storage tends to organize itself into "blocks" that are best written all at once, because they have to be erased all at once in order to rewrite them
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19:37<r4fkramer>43 not fully installed
19:37<r4fkramer>yes, knghtbrd
19:37<r4fkramer>I understood you now
19:37<knghtbrd>the problem is … flash can only be written and erased so many times
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19:38<knghtbrd>wear leveling is a process by which the drive keeps a virtual map of blocks that can be rearranged so the same blocks don't get written over and over again
19:39<knghtbrd>cheap devices (like USB sticks) don't do that
19:40<knghtbrd>It adds whole pennies to the manufacturing cost, and we can't have that!
19:40<bremner>r4fkramer: try installing 'f3' and run it on your usb key
19:40<r4fkramer>I see, that's why this device behaved like that without a previou cleaning in /tmp, is that ok ?
19:41<r4fkramer>Now stacer was installed
19:41<knghtbrd>it might be why your USB stick is failing outright, if it is
19:41<r4fkramer>FIne bremner, thank you very much :) I gonna install it now
19:41<knghtbrd>if it's not, re-run the install and apt will try to download/configure things again
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19:41<knghtbrd>might need to use apt install -f
19:42<r4fkramer>That's what happened here (at least, I imagine it a happening more or less similar to what you said, knghtbrd.
19:42<knghtbrd>just in case, I recommend copying anything you don't want to lose to other USB flash sticks
19:42<r4fkramer>The other time, I installed and ran stacer immediately and a command to clean buffer, cache, etc
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19:43<knghtbrd>multiple redundant copies
19:43<r4fkramer>Fine, there is nothing here which is really important
19:43<knghtbrd>that's always the best strategy for backup
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19:43<knghtbrd>I bet most people here have at least one horror story about failing to back up.
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19:44<cozmo>:(
19:45<bremner>that reminds me, I should get back to configuring duplicity on the new VPS
19:45<r4fkramer>I have some horror stories like that, knghtbrd
19:46<r4fkramer>FIne it helped to refresh your memory about your task, bremner
19:46<descartes>r4fkramer: I've used Debian as my primary system on a USB flashdrive for... 10-12 years now! Lots of tinkering but worth the portability. Get a Toshiba U365. Samsung/Sandisk are less reliable.
19:46<r4fkramer>This old usb stick was useful for something
19:47<r4fkramer>Please, descartes, do you have a reliable link about Toshiba U365 to give me ?
19:47<descartes>AFAIK better flash drives will have volatile DRAM on them, 512Mb or so, as a cache for transfer to the slow non-volatile memory.
19:47<descartes>Hmmmm. My personal experience. Also reading lots of amazon reviews.
19:48<descartes>I'll link an amazon review of someone else in the same/similar use case coming to the same conclusion.
19:48<descartes>Oh, Kioxia U365 now, they changed name.
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19:48<knghtbrd>descartes: these days I just get a SATA m.2 stick and shove it in a USB enclosure
19:50<r4fkramer>knghtbrd, I still maintain an old ide hdd 20 GB storage running FreeBSD 10.1
19:50<r4fkramer>WD by 2005
19:51<knghtbrd>I've got a 250GB IDE drive that my PS2 might use if it still works. Otherwise anything running on IDE tends to get a CF or SD adapter these days
19:51<r4fkramer>Ok descartes, thanks for information. Thanks for information
19:51<knghtbrd>annoyingly, most SD adapters don't allow two devices on the chain
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19:53<descartes>r4fkramer: hmmm review not on amazon anymore, it was from someone from India who put a lot of effort into benchmarking, sad https://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-TransMemory-U364-USB3-0-THN-U364W0320A4/product-reviews
19:54<descartes>Use tmpfs whenever you can. /tmp /var/log and other niche uses
19:54<r4fkramer>Only a beauty white dog looking at me, after openedhttps://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-TransMemory-U364-USB3-0-THN-U364W0320A4/product-reviews
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19:55<descartes>Oh the U364 isn't as good, less DRAM I think. I've had a SanDisk that was a glorified resistor, was hot as hades and failed within months.
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19:56<descartes>Also use profile-sync-daemon for your web browsing. It puts the browser profile into memory rather than disk, and syncs it on shutdown and more often if configured to do so
19:57<descartes>google-chrome and firefox will both be very slow without that
19:57<r4fkramer>Fine, I'll check it afterwards Thank you descartes.
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19:58<r4fkramer>now, all the applications here are installed properly, despite the low disk space.
19:58<r4fkramer>apt autoremove helped to save good and decisive space
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20:03<sarnold>r4fkramer: if you're tight on space, you can try leaving off documentation and similar things: https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/11/15/save-disk-space-by-excluding-useless-files-with-dpkg/
20:04<descartes>`apt clean` too, will clean the cache of installed packages
20:04<descartes>And localepurge is great to free space too.
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20:05<descartes>When I first started I used a 4GB stick and a squashfs, but that took a lot of maintenance to keep free space.
20:06<r4fkramer>Fine, sarnold, I always use apt-clean and this other command to clean cache, buffer...
20:06<r4fkramer>sudo sh -c 'echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches'
20:07<r4fkramer>FIne sarnold, this other procedure using dpkg I didn't know about. Thank you very much for this :)
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20:11<sarnold>r4fkramer: btw, that drop_caches thing is sometimes useful, but it won't free up disk space
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20:15<descartes>r4fkramer: Oh sorry I cut off too much of the long link earlier I assumed it would link: https://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-TransMemory-U364-USB3-0-THN-U364W0320A4/product-reviews/B078NPLXGC/
20:16<descartes>But doesn't matter the review isn't there anymore
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20:18<r4fkramer>Fine sarnold, don't you use this command to clean buffer and cash frequently ?
20:18<r4fkramer>No worries, descartes, the white dog is beauty at least.
20:18<sarnold>r4fkramer: almost never :) I used to run it all the time when I had some problems with my zfs system..
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20:19<r4fkramer>I see
20:19<sarnold>r4fkramer: but I figured out a way to drastically improve that situation, so I haven't used the drop_caches thing for perhaps a year now
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20:20<r4fkramer>Are you referring to a drastically improvement in your server or desktop computer?
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20:24<sarnold>r4fkramer: heh, I can't find "my" bug about it now, but this bug report is very similar :) https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/7559
20:25<sarnold>r4fkramer: basically, openzfs runs a lot of threads to remove items from its own in-memory cache, and push them to the l2arc cache; these threads can compete with each other for a spinlock to do their own
20:27<sarnold>r4fkramer: on my system, 128 gigs of ram and 32 logical CPUs, it would have something like 24 processes all trying to acquire a spinlock at once; it caused my system to go from thousands of disk IO operations per second to 30 disk IO operations per second
20:28<r4fkramer> arc_reclaim pegs CPU and blocks I/O #7559 it is being used debian buster 10 here. Is that your OS ?
20:29<r4fkramer>yeah, I remember you told me about openzfs before. The main reason you are using ubuntu, right ?
20:29<sarnold>r4fkramer: well, that and I'm employed by canonical :) hehe
20:30<r4fkramer>Oh, I never heard about it !
20:30<r4fkramer>128 Gig ?
20:30<sarnold>yeah :)
20:31<r4fkramer>32 logical CPUS and 24 processors... and I'm fighting for 8gb storage here, ahahaha
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20:33<bremner>should I continue using postgrey? switch to different greylist implementation (built-in?) or just give up on greylisting?
20:34<bremner>I guess I'm already running postgrey on the primary mx, so I should do the same on the secondary
20:35<r4fkramer>Excuse me bremner: you said 'postgrey' ?
20:35<bremner>r4fkramer: yes, it's an addon for postfix
20:35<r4fkramer>Different to 'postgre' ?
20:35<bremner>yes
20:35<r4fkramer>Oh, I see
20:35<bremner>confusing I agree
20:36<r4fkramer>No, that is my fault, I'm still just ignorant about that :)
20:36<bremner>well, only one letter different from postgres
20:37<r4fkramer>Yes in fact, if you don't pay a minimum attention, you gonna make confusion
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20:38<r4fkramer>Well, bremner, knghtbrd, sarnold, descartes, thank you very much for attention and Great Support !:)
20:38<r4fkramer>God Bless You All !:)
20:39<bremner>o/
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20:40<sarnold>gn8 r4fkramer :)
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20:41<r4fkramer>Good Night, sarnold, always glad when I see you here :)
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21:32<aloo_shu>oops. install netinstall image, then look what dependencies youtube-dl would pull in. 598MB additional disk space will be used. seriously?
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21:34<somiaj>try with the --no-recommends flag. I think it recommends a video player
21:35<somiaj>Recommends: aria2 | wget | curl, ca-certificates, ffmpeg, mpv | mplayer , python3-pyxattr, rtmpdump
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21:49<aloo_shu>it's --no-install-recommends but thanks, yes
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21:50<aloo_shu>that was it
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21:54<somiaj>note, you won't get any of the features like changing video type with ffmpeg, and any views to actually watch the video.
21:54<somiaj>yea, sorry about not recalilng the right flag. Anyways, recommends are not hard depends, but features of the software won't work with them missing
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22:00<aloo_shu>I was aware, just didn't expect that default
22:01<Unit193>somiaj: mpv/mplayer aren't there "so you can watch this", it's actually used to get certain streams.
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22:01<somiaj>ahh I didn't know it streamed, I knew it would use it to play the video afterwards, but not just streams
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22:02<Unit193>`mpv` uses youtube-dl if it's avilable, though. There's streamlink for streams, generally.
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22:03<somiaj>Unit193: thanks
22:04<somiaj>aloo_shu: yea, some disagree with recommends being installed by default. You can disable that default, but you will most likely install stuff and be confused why some features just don't work if you aren't careful
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22:06<sarnold>but you get to save gigs of disk space and network traffic..
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22:06<sarnold>up to you, which you'd rather spend bytes on :)
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22:08<aloo_shu>yeah it's not as simple as turning that off, there's a balance of decisions involved - also when designing dependencies
22:09<Unit193>aloo_shu: Just a note, youtube-dl hasn't been touched upstream since July, the active fork is yt-dlp.
22:09<aloo_shu>a case could be made that command line tools aren't expected to pull gui tools
22:11<aloo_shu>oh thanks for the reminder. was that the only sigificant fork?
22:11<aloo_shu>-gni
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22:12<somiaj>My experience is no one is going to agree on recommended depends vs suggests for optional depends. Though debian policy is basically if a feature will break without it, it should be recommended.
22:13<somiaj>I mostly install them unless I notaice a lot of stuff I don't really need comming along then manually add the --no-install-recommends flag
22:13<sarnold>yt-dlp is the only remaining fork of youtube-dl that I hear about regularly
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22:30<aloo_shu>somiaj: probably going to go that way, too
22:30<Unit193>mpv for example uses yt-dlp if it's installed, otherwise uses youtube-dl.
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22:32<aloo_shu>if that's because the yt-dl devs took the pressure of legal attacks, then they'd deserve support
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23:00<drph>Help! I upgraded my home debian server to bullseye and my networking broke!
23:01<drph>service networking start gives no useful information except "failed"
23:01<drph>the system was fully working previous to upgrading
23:02<drph>I think apt autoremove nuked something critical
23:02<sussudio>if only there were things you could look at for error messages.
23:02<drph>I've got 2 nics and a pair of infiniband interfaces and none of them can ping except for self-pinging themselves
23:03<mason>drph: Did the names change vs what you have configured?
23:03<drph>I just get failed with result "exit code"
23:03<drph>no, the nic names are the same
23:03<mason>drph: Any firmware needed but missing? Anything in dmesg talking about the NICs?
23:03<sussudio>the last dist-upgrade i did swapped my nics interfaces.
23:04<drph>I actually tried swapping eth0 and eth1. No difference
23:04<mason>drph: You get eth0 and eth1 because you've specified net.ifnames=0 ?
23:04<drph>there might have been a firmware package removed...I can't get one of the NICs to show a link at all
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23:05<drph>yah I decided to retain the old ifnames
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23:05<mason>kk, so you're clear on which is which based on MAC probably. I'd check dmesg output to see if there are errors, and then see if there's firmware needed that's missing, which you can bring in on USB if you need to.
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23:06<mason>Also maybe DDG for problem reports with those cards. Some things seem decidedly more fragile in Bullseye from Buster to me, so maybe support has gotten shaky.
23:06<mason>no
23:07<drph>grepping dmesg show the rtl firmware being loaded
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23:08<drph>the other card is a broadcom BM5722...is proprietary firmware required for that?
23:08<mason>drph: The only thing that comes to mind as a strategy is booting Buster live media and seeing it works there to rule out some sort of regression.
23:09<mason>drph: Yeah, looks like firmware-linux-nonfree has something for it at a glance.
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23:09<mason>(A glance means https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=681089 at the top of search results in this case)
23:09<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/681089 in firmware-linux-nonfree (closed, unreproducible, moreinfo): «firmware-linux-nonfree: Broadcom NetXtreme BCM5722 dropped packets»; severity: normal; opened: 2012-07-10; last modified: 2015-11-18.
23:10<iot2z>hello world
23:11<drph>ok I'll grab that package and dpkg install to see if I get any love
23:11<drph>already installed : /
23:12<descartes>drph: when `service networking start` says failed with exit code it suggests to look in `journalctl -xe` right? Any error message in `journalctl -xe`?
23:13<mason>drph: Good point there. How are you configuring it? What package/method?
23:13<iot2z>does anyone know where I can find the nethuner image for ticwatch
23:13<drph>no, unfortunately, its literally just 'Failed with result "exit code"'
23:14<mason>drph: What failed? ifupdown? NM? something else?
23:14<mason>drph: Leading to: can you configure the interfaces manually and see them work?
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23:15<drph>I'm on day 3 trying to fix this...I've been going over everything in /var/log trying to figure stuff out. It's getting frustrating to try and fix without a working network...I really appreciate all the help
23:15<drph>I tried manually configuring interfaces, but no dice
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23:15<mason>drph: What happened with the manual configs?
23:15<drph>tcpdump on the interfaces goes into an unkillable state
23:15<mason>drph: And what tools did you use to manually configure them?
23:15<drph>no packets captured
23:15<drph>I tried both ip and ifconfig
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23:16<mason>did they fail or just not seem to work? Do you have a DHCP server so you can say, for instance, dhclient eth0 in case there's something you forgot in manual config?
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23:17<mason>Worst case, again, snag a Buster live-with-non-free-firmware image and boot from that, and see if you get it to work again under Buster
23:18<drph>the one interface is statically assigned, and the other is normally a bridge interface for a bunch of VM networks on separate VLANs, but untagged traffic works on the same vlan as the main interface, so configuring it with a static address _should_ work
23:18<drph>the infiniband cards are just direct-connected in a 3 node mesh
23:18<drph>nothing works tho
23:19<mason>That's fancier networking than exists in my experience, sadly. Hopefully someone can give better ideas. Don't discount the live media to compare.
23:20<mason>And good luck.
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23:20<drph>I'll see what I can see from a live-boot. I _think_ its due to the apt autoremove, since I had successful reboots into bullseye before that
23:20<mason>drph: Oh.
23:20<drph>It removed like 50 packages...I'd never had autoremove bork the system this bad before tho
23:20<mason>drph: If it worked and then an autoremove toasted it, look in /var/log/apt for what the autoremove did
23:20<drph>so I just trusted that all would be ok
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23:21<drph>like an idiot I did an apt clean and apt autoclean before actually testing the networking
23:21<mason>Also, always eyeball autoremove. In this case, don't discount that it might have been something from Buster that didn't move forward that was necessary, although I have no idea what that might be. (Seems implausible.)
23:21<mason>drph: Does that zap logs too?
23:21<drph>so I guess I could download all the packages that were autoremoved and reinstall
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23:22<mason>Yeah.
23:22<drph>I did have a quick look and didn't see anything obviously devastating in the remove list
23:23<drph>I'm looking again, but nothing stands out...
23:24<mason>Do you have back-ups from before the upgrade
23:24<mason>?
23:25<mason>If so, restore a working system, install Bullseye to a USB disk or something and verify you can get it working before committing to it.
23:25<mason>Anyway, g'night and good luck.
23:26<descartes>I've had to diagnose a mystery problem on a buster->bullseye upgrade myself. `service lightdm start` would exit with error code failure.
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23:27<descartes>What happened in my case was that in the upgrade, dpkg didn't install a critical .conf file. Kinda weird. I figured that out by inspecting the `dpkg --verify` files.
23:27<drph>3
23:28<drph>sorry, kvm hotkey got through
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23:36<descartes>The /lib/systemd/system/networking.service calls `/sbin/ifup -a --read-environment`. Maybe call /sbin/ifup on each interface indidually to see if it is one or both. `echo $?` to get error code if it doesn't print anything.
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23:40<drph>ok thanks descartes I'll try that
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 07 00:00:35 2021