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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-07

---Logopened Tue Dec 07 00:00:35 2021
00:01-!-bahamat [~bahamat@2600:8801:8606:8503:d822:6ca8:3ebd:d534] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
00:01-!-simonpatapon [simon@patapon.lol] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:02-!-simonpatapon [simon@patapon.lol] has joined #debian
00:02-!-simonpatapon is "Simon Patapon" on #debian-quebec #buddhism #debian-next #oftc #debian #bitlbee
00:03-!-eth0lo [~oftc-webi@235.red-88-7-217.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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00:06-!-chaky1 is "chaky" on #debian
00:11-!-tux9656 [~tux9656@097-094-062-190.biz.spectrum.com] has joined #debian
00:11-!-tux9656 is "realname" on #debian
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00:13-!-chaky1 is now known as chaky
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00:19-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
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00:23-!-Kuririnmagic [~Kuririnma@ec2-54-161-0-86.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
00:23-!-Kuririnmagic is "Kuririnmagic" on #infosec #debian-devel-changes ##brazil #tor-south #redditprivacy #ck #oftc #debian
00:23-!-Unit193 [ukikie@unit193.noc.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
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00:23-!-kryten is "Krytarik Raido" on #oftc #debian-next #debian
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00:28-!-Unit193 is "Unit 193" on #debian-next #linode #freenode #tor #debian-ayatana #mapreri #oftc #debian-edu #bitrig #debian-live #debian-xfce #neurodebian #CipherShed #ohiolinux #packaging #debian-devel-changes #debian-games #lxde
00:28-!-Unit193 [ukikie@unit193.noc.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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00:32-!-mimi89999 is "mimi89999" on #fdroid #debian
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00:57<drph>root
00:57-!-drph [~oftc-webi@s206-116-18-167.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
00:59-!-cowboypenguin [~dan@107-209-165-75.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
00:59-!-cowboypenguin is "Cowboy Penguin" on #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
01:01-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
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01:07-!-sodo is "sodo" on #debian
01:08-!-dokakuryu [~fudgespin@2403:6200:8880:133d:e145:d2c7:5fa3:610d] has joined #debian
01:08-!-dokakuryu is "abe mackenzie" on #debian #debian-offtopic #oftc
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01:17-!-hbautista [~hbautista@189.148.123.134] has joined #debian
01:17-!-hbautista is "Héctor" on #archlinux #osm-es #debian #debian-mx
01:17<sodo>i'm using debian unstable(i asked on debian-next too) and i want to enable opengl 2.0 for gma3150
01:17<sodo>but driconf got removed on unstable
01:18<sodo>is there any alternative to driconf?
01:18-!-cpaelzer_ [~paelzer@068-133-067-156.ip-addr.inexio.net] has joined #debian
01:18-!-cpaelzer_ is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #zkvm #virt #debian-qemu #debian
01:19-!-cpaelzer is now known as Guest7845
01:19-!-cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer
01:20-!-otisolsen70 [~otisolsen@xd4ed80b5.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #debian
01:20-!-otisolsen70 is "realname" on #vbox #bash #debian-nordic #debian #packaging
01:22-!-Guest7845 [~paelzer@2001:67c:1560:8007::aac:c4ad] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:25-!-Xaldafax [~xaldafax@cpe-198-72-160-101.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Bye...]
01:26-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b410a5f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
01:26-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
01:35-!-alexrelis [~alex@204.152.215.254] has joined #debian
01:35-!-alexrelis is "Alex Relis" on #debian-next #debian
01:36-!-cpaelzer_ [~paelzer@2001:67c:1560:8007::aac:c4ad] has joined #debian
01:36-!-cpaelzer_ is "Christian Ehrhardt" on #zkvm #virt #debian-qemu #debian
01:36-!-ChubaDuba [~ChubaDuba@176.212.38.15] has joined #debian
01:36-!-ChubaDuba is "realname" on #debian #debian-devel-changes
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01:54-!-bestucan [~can@0002308d.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:54-!-bestucan is "can" on #debian
02:01-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:01-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
02:02-!-bestucan [~can@0002308d.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
02:03-!-cowboypenguin [~dan@107-209-165-75.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
02:04<somiaj>sodo: please don't cross post and ask questions in the appropriate channel (Which you already did)
02:04-!-heiserhorn is "Michele Cane" on #oftc #debian-next
02:04-!-heiserhorn [~heiserhor@185.159.157.45] has joined #debian
02:07-!-hbautista [~hbautista@189.148.123.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:12-!-chele [~chele@00022067.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:12-!-chele is "chele" on #debian-next #debian
02:12-!-awal1 [~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-23-70-55-160-158.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:15-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-79-36-149-116.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
02:15-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #linux-media #gstreamer #vcs-home #debian #cell
02:17-!-oztunan [~oztunan@oztunan.org] has joined #debian
02:17-!-oztunan is "oztunan" on #debian-php #debian #debian-next
02:17-!-mrwick [~mrwick@185.78.180.133] has joined #debian
02:17-!-mrwick is "mrwick" on #debian-next #debian
02:17-!-Tob_ [~tob@212.7.232.140] has joined #debian
02:17-!-Tob_ is "realname" on #debian
02:17-!-descartes [~browser@63-248-8-88.static.sdyl0420.digis.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:17-!-oztunan [~oztunan@oztunan.org] has quit []
02:19-!-jpw [~jpw@cpc146708-rdng28-2-0-cust213.15-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:19-!-ircuser-1 [~Johnny@c-71-193-246-4.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #debian
02:19-!-ircuser-1 is "Johnny Von Neumann" on #virt #ovirt #kvm #debian #ceph
02:20-!-oztunan [~oztunan@oztunan.org] has joined #debian
02:20-!-oztunan is "oztunan" on #debian-php #debian #debian-next
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02:20-!-oztunan is "oztunan" on #debian-php #debian #debian-next
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02:26-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:b91f:ba47:5156:3915] has joined #debian
02:26-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
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02:30-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has quit []
02:31-!-seednode6 [~seednode@seedno.de] has joined #debian
02:31-!-seednode6 is "seednode" on #debian #alpine-linux
02:36-!-ChubaDuba_ [~ChubaDuba@46.147.102.91] has joined #debian
02:36-!-ChubaDuba_ is "realname" on #debian-devel-changes #debian
02:37-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:37-!-is0ke3 [~is0ke3@0002bb50.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:37-!-is0ke3 is "is0ke3" on #tor #debian
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02:39-!-joeDoe [~joeDoe@192-222-146-207.qc.cable.ebox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:40-!-wxsabi [~wxsabi@068-119-008-155.res.spectrum.com] has joined #debian
02:40-!-wxsabi is "wxsabi" on #debian
02:40-!-lavamind [~lavamind@192-0-229-11.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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02:44-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-79-36-149-116.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:48-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
02:48-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian.or.at #security #debian-next #debian
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02:57-!-mezzo [~mezzo@176-141-171-88.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
02:57-!-mezzo is "mezzo" on #debian #yuming
02:57-!-berkhan [~berkhan@159.146.42.203] has joined #debian
02:57-!-berkhan is "Berkhan Berkdemir" on #debian
02:59-!-endstille [~Miranda@94.31.96.100] has joined #debian
02:59-!-endstille is "marc.brinkmann@gmail.com" on #debian
03:00-!-freq_ [~freq@dhcp-10-c-6b-26-5e-65.cpe.echoes.net] has joined #debian
03:00-!-freq_ is "unknown" on #i2p #moocows #301_Linux #linux #church #alpine-linux #debian
03:00-!-SZO [~anon@192.30.89.67] has joined #debian
03:00-!-SZO is "anon" on #debian-next #debian
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03:05-!-ChubaDuba_ [~ChubaDuba@46.147.102.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:06-!-skitt [~skitt@82-65-25-201.subs.proxad.net] has joined #debian
03:06-!-skitt is "realname" on #debian
03:06-!-ChubaDuba_ [~ChubaDuba@46.147.102.91] has joined #debian
03:06-!-ChubaDuba_ is "realname" on #debian-devel-changes #debian
03:06-!-log2 [~log2@185.65.135.183] has joined #debian
03:06-!-log2 is "snake" on #tor #sxmo-offtopic #postmarketos #oftc #debian
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03:09-!-rany is "rany" on #tor #tor-dev #tor-project #debian #debian-offtopic #debian-next #tor-relays #quetzalcoatl-relays
03:12-!-pax [~Thunderbi@host-95-249-125-24.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
03:12-!-pax is "pax" on #debian
03:13-!-wxsabi [~wxsabi@068-119-008-155.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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03:13-!-wxsabi is "wxsabi" on #debian
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03:16-!-pipedream is "Jan Groenewald" on #debian-ubuntu #debian-printing #debian-next #debian
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03:20-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
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03:26-!-zamuro [~Samantha@213.194.146.39] has joined #debian
03:26-!-zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian
03:27-!-arunpyasi [~arunpyasi@2407:5200:400:4568:5799:36ca:2499:5b03] has joined #debian
03:27-!-arunpyasi is "realname" on #packaging #debian-ubuntu #debian #debian-deepin
03:28-!-richard_h [~richard@2406:e001:8:a900:6e62:6dff:fe05:ae29] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
03:30-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:b91f:ba47:5156:3915] has quit [Quit: Je m'en vais ...]
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03:40-!-jpw [jpw@triton.blinkenshell.org] has joined #debian
03:40-!-jpw is "jimmy" on #debian
03:41-!-Strelnikov [~strelniko@h-98-128-172-245.A785.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
03:41-!-Strelnikov is "strelnikov" on #dfri_se #debian #tor #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-project #tor-relays
03:43-!-skitt [~skitt@82-65-25-201.subs.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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03:45-!-skitt [~skitt@82-65-25-201.subs.proxad.net] has joined #debian
03:45-!-skitt is "realname" on #debian
03:54-!-freq_ [~freq@dhcp-10-c-6b-26-5e-65.cpe.echoes.net] has quit []
03:54-!-freq [~freq@0002a405.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:54-!-freq is "unknown" on #i2p #moocows @#301_Linux #linux @#church #alpine-linux #debian
03:55-!-texou [~jp@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:55-!-texou is "Stoicien" on #debian-nonupload #hyprateam #debian-i18n #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-a11y
04:04-!-ChubaDuba_ [~ChubaDuba@46.147.102.91] has quit []
04:05-!-euandreh is now known as Guest7854
04:05-!-euandreh [~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:da4:9ec6:5ef5:74d6] has joined #debian
04:05-!-euandreh is "EuAndreh" on #debian-devel-br #OpenBSD #pax #perl #suckless #C #pipewire #fdroid #mesonbuild #haiku #po4a #debian-18n #debian
04:07-!-Guest7854 [~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:b36c:1fc0:956d:d06c] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:08-!-bullgard4 [~bullgard4@dslb-094-222-244-233.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
04:08-!-bullgard4 is "realname" on #debian #bluez #kernelnewbies #debian-next
04:11-!-brokencycle [~brokencyc@2a02:c7f:f6f4:4200:dae5:9bc:ad9a:c64d] has joined #debian
04:11-!-brokencycle is "no such user" on #debian-next #debian
04:16-!-ph0b0s_ [~ph0b0s@adsl-221.79.107.40.tellas.gr] has joined #debian
04:16-!-ph0b0s_ is "ph0b0s" on #debian
04:18-!-menace [~someone@ppp-93-104-168-246.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #debian
04:18-!-menace is "someone" on #tor #bpftrace #debian-raspberrypi #virtualization #retroshare #security #kernelnewbies #linux #virt #freedombox #packaging #debian-ubuntu #debian
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04:19-!-gce108 is "realname" on #debian #debian-offtopic #ovirt
04:22-!-joeDoe [~joeDoe@192-222-146-207.qc.cable.ebox.net] has joined #debian
04:22-!-joeDoe is "joeDoe" on #bitlbee #debian #nslug #freedombox #debian-quebec
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04:24-!-live is "Debian Live user" on #debian
04:27-!-ao2 [~ao2@host-79-36-149-116.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
04:27-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #linux-media #gstreamer #vcs-home #debian #cell
04:27-!-flappy [~flappy@91-154-0-54.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
04:27-!-flappy is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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04:29-!-ibs2001 is "ibs2001" on #debian
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04:33-!-lavamind [~lavamind@192-0-229-11.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
04:33-!-lavamind is "lavamind" on #tor #cakeage #tor-bots #tor-project #xcp-ng #xen-orchestra #debian #debian-quebec
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04:35-!-sep_ [~sep@2a05:6d40:0:340:ec:24ff:fe65:d91c] has joined #debian
04:35-!-sep_ is "Ronny Aasen <ronny@aasen.cx>" on #debian #ceph #nuug #ipv6
04:36-!-Kuririnmagic [~Kuririnma@ec2-54-161-0-86.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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04:37-!-Slashman is "Slash" on #debian
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04:41-!-sodo is "sodo" on #debian #debian-next
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04:42-!-Kuririnmagic is "Kuririnmagic" on #infosec #debian-devel-changes ##brazil #tor-south #redditprivacy #ck #oftc #debian
04:43-!-rany_ [~rany@000230e5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:43-!-rany_ is "rany" on #tor #tor-dev #tor-project #debian #debian-offtopic #debian-next #tor-relays #quetzalcoatl-relays
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04:46-!-onionadmn517 is "Onions" on #debian
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04:48-!-live is "Debian Live user" on #debian
04:49-!-rany__ [~rany@0BGAAGG1Z.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:49-!-rany__ is "rany" on #tor #debian #debian-next #tor-relays #quetzalcoatl-relays
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04:51-!-joeDoe [~joeDoe@192-222-146-207.qc.cable.ebox.net] has joined #debian
04:51-!-joeDoe is "joeDoe" on #bitlbee #debian #nslug #freedombox #debian-quebec
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04:58-!-CQ [~CQ@dynamic-095-115-190-031.95.115.pool.telefonica.de] has joined #debian
04:58-!-CQ is "CQ" on #debian
04:58<CQ>hello, is there something that automatically renames interfaces from the old eth0 etc. to the new form and makes all needed changes?
05:00<petn-randall>CQ: yes
05:01<CQ>petn-randall, what is it? a package to install, a script to run?
05:02-!-live_ [~live@46.56.191.81] has joined #debian
05:02-!-live_ is "Debian Live user" on #debian
05:03<CQ>https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames just shows a lot of manual steps
05:04<jelly>CQ, what are you trying to accomplish?
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05:05<CQ>jelly, trying to rename eth0 etc. to the new standard way of naming things ... as stated in https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names
05:07<jm_>I think you'll need to change references manually
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06:11<exploit>hi
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07:22<user>hello guys
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07:23<luna>hi
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07:28<Guest7860>whats up guys ?
07:28<Guest7860>whats new on debian ?
07:28<Guest7860>some hackers here ?
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07:33<petn-randall>Guest7860: Yeah, we're all pro hackers here.
07:33<petn-randall>Guest7860: The sign of a true hacker is that they manage to change their name from GuestXXXX to something else.
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08:45<webdebsearch>Hi, bullseye-security appears mssing from https://packages.debian.org/firefox-esr results (only shows 78.14.0esr-1~deb11u1 from bullseye). Known bug?
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09:06<jeremiah>webdebsearch: Why is it a bug?
09:10<webdebsearch>jeremiah: I was expecting 78.15 bullseye-security should be listed. If not, how would these results be helpful?
09:10<jeremiah>Ah, I see.
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09:11<jeremiah>webdebsearch: It seems likely that the security patch is already in Bullseye's version of firefox-esr.
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09:11<jeremiah>So this means that the other older versions in stretch and buster need an update via the security repo.
09:12<webdebsearch>sorry if I wasn't clear, 78.15 has been available weeks ago at bullseye-security, the fact it is not listed here is the bug
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09:13<webdebsearch>web cache not refreshed maybe?
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09:15<webdebsearch>as per stretch and buster, the versions from -security are actually listed, I did not check all suites but at first glance only? or at least bullseye-security is missing
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09:21<webdebsearch>apt tells me bookwork and sid results are correct
09:21<webdebsearch>jeremiah: guess : related to the security repo address change with bullseye, maybe ?
09:22<jeremiah>It's definitely possible. But I'm not certain, I'd have to look at the package more closely.
09:23<jeremiah>I see that there is a CVE fixed in the package in Bullseye; CVE-2021-38493
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09:24<jeremiah>Here is security info for ff-esr; https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr
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09:25<jeremiah>And that CVE looks fixed in the latest version of ff-esr; https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-38493
09:26<jeremiah>So I'm not sure what the issue may be? Are you looking to get the latest version of ff-esr?
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09:26<webdebsearch>this does correctly lists bullseye (security) is at 78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1
09:27<webdebsearch>as confirmed here, this version has been accepted in bullseye-sec https://tracker.debian.org/news/1264938/accepted-firefox-esr-78150esr-1deb11u1-source-into-stable-security-embargoed-stable-security/
09:27<webdebsearch>(and I have deployed it then)
09:28<webdebsearch>I *think* the web results are broken/unreliable somehow, since they don't present the latest version as they should
09:29<webdebsearch>(they don't match the repo state)
09:29<jeremiah>That I don't know.
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09:30<webdebsearch>I use the web search quite a bit lately, well, I'll go back to using apt and pinning as before, to get an accurate view of the suites :)
09:30<Sqrt{Not}>,v firefox-esr
09:30<judd>Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 78.14.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 78.14.0esr-1~deb11u1; bookworm: 78.14.0esr-1+b1; buster-security: 78.15.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye-proposed-updates: 78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1; bullseye-security:
09:30<judd>78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1; sid: 91.3.0esr-2
09:31<webdebsearch>yup, that looks as good as my local apt
09:32<Sebastinas>hmm, I think that packages.debian.org has a long known bug wrt to -security. If I could just find the bug report.
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09:46<apkef>Hello all
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09:46<apkef>I have a problem with evince on bullseye
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09:47<apkef>I have a folder /opt/docs. "docs" is world read-write
09:48<apkef>I can save files in "docs" but I can not create folders
09:49<apkef>It is probably an apparmor thing, but I do not know how to solve!!!
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09:53<webdebsearch>Sebastinas: can't see anything about a missing suite, maybe it's one of the bugs related to checksums or metas and it's only about this specific package?
09:53<webdebsearch>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=www.debian.org;dist=unstable#_0_3_1
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09:56<Sebastinas>It's not specific to firefox-esr.
09:58<Sebastinas>The versions of nss, samba, etc. from bullseye-security are also not known to packages.debian.org
09:58<Sqrt{Not}>apkef, show us the output of: ls -ld /opt /opt/docs
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10:00<webdebsearch>Sebastinas: correct, I was looking for candidates and samba is affected indeed
10:01<webdebsearch>have you found any one from bullseye-security that *is* listed on packages.d.o ?
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10:04<apkef>drwxr-xr-x 27 root root 4096 Οκτ 18 15:00 /opt/
10:04<webdebsearch>my first thought was, is packages.d.o backend using the "new" -security repo address?
10:04<apkef>drwxrwxr-x 23 akefalas akefalas 4096 Δεκ 7 14:35 /opt/docs/
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10:05<apkef>user can create folders with mkdir from command line
10:05<Fraggle2>apkef: it is not world writeable, it is writeable for user and group akefelas
10:06<apkef>Fraggle2: Yes! you are right but it is the same user that has the problem
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10:09<Sqrt{Not}>apkef, and you are doing all this saving and creating from inside `evince` ?
10:09<apkef>Sqrt{Not}: Yes!
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10:10<webdebsearch>apkef: here is some guidance with apparmor, if it may help you : https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor
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10:12<webdebsearch>apkef: so as it says, if apparmor denies something, you probably should see it pass in your log, e.g. journalctl -af
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10:12<apkef>Dec 7 12:23:46 apollo kernel: [12972.429499] audit: type=1400 audit(1638872626.644:67): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mkdir" profile="/usr/bin/evince" name="/opt/docs/Cel-Fi/" pid=32298 comm="evince" requested_mask="c" denied_mask="c" fsuid=1000 ouid=1000
10:12<webdebsearch>right
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10:14<apkef>webdebsearch: any ideas?
10:14<webdebsearch>apkef: so you may want to "edit" the apparmor "profile" for evince, or, locate your folder wherever it is already allowed in that profile
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10:15<apkef>webdebsearch: evince apparmor profile is the default from repos. it has not been touched.
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10:20<webdebsearch>apkef: well, to start, I would not allow a user to write under /opt, I may be wrong but it's against my understanding of good practice :)
10:22<webdebsearch>apkef: the user's $HOME or maybe /home/data or /srv/data would be a better place
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10:23<apkef>webdebsearch: I could use /srv/data
10:23<webdebsearch>apkef: i.o.w. I would say it's a good thing if whatever denies this
10:24<apkef>sudo aa-disable /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.evince solves the "problem" but I do not like it!
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10:26<webdebsearch>apkef: me neither, this is no solution :) like I said, profiles can be customized, but it's a little bit tedious and it needs extra care
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10:29<webdebsearch>apkef: default evince profile is /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.evince
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10:32<apkef>I do not feel that confident to mess with it!!!
10:32<webdebsearch>apkef: and you could customize it under /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.bin.evince adding your /srv/data path here, observe the original first to see the syntax
10:32<webdebsearch>the file under "local" should exist already, it is empty
10:34<webdebsearch>but you should try to learn this a bit first, reading man and the wiki, how to parse/verify a profile etc.
10:34<apkef>OK! I got the point. So the real question is if this is happening on purpose or is it a bug in the profile?
10:34<webdebsearch>apkef: myself I had some troubles with libvirt, which uses things like dynamic owner users but I succeeded :)
10:35<webdebsearch>apkef: I definitely think it is NOT a bug that evince gets denied like this with the default profile
10:36<webdebsearch>HOME areas exist for a reason, once of them is security, untrusted PDF may exploit nasty bugs just like any untrusted data file
10:37<apkef>webdebsearch: Beacause, if this a Debian policy it is not obeyed by any other application
10:37<webdebsearch>then, maybe other profiles are way to lax
10:37<webdebsearch>too*
10:39<webdebsearch>apkef: anyway, /opt is usually meant as a home for (foreign) software executables, thus a restriction makes a lot of sense
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10:41<webdebsearch>apkef: evince should NOT be allowed to write anywhere your system would accept to execute any application from
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10:47<apkef>webdebsearch: the funny part is that I can not create a folder, but I can save the pdf just fine!!!
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10:54<tertu>hey so i
10:54<webdebsearch>apkef: reading a folder is a form if execution
10:55<webdebsearch>of*
10:55<tertu>I'm getting scrambled video when booting the installer
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10:55<webdebsearch>apkef: writing a folder would allow you to replace, maybe, an app -- anyway, those rules are constantly enhanced
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10:58<tertu>ah, uefi boot seems to have fixed it
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11:02<apkef>webdebsearch: I must say that I am not convinced, since evince can read folders just fine!!!
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11:13<webdebsearch>apkef: read the disclaimer at the top of its profile, the job just cannot be done currently with evince anyway
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11:14<webdebsearch>apkef: but writing is a lot more powerful than reading
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11:16<webdebsearch>apkef: and when I do `grep -R '/opt' /etc/apparmor.d/` I just want to forget what I just saw :)
11:17<apkef>webdebsearch: I know :) that's why I got surprised from evince
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12:22<scorpion2185[m]>how do I use a vncviewer to connect to 127.0.0.1:5901?
12:24<blast007>which VNC client? have you tried literally typing in 127.0.0.1:5901 as the server to conenct to?
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12:47<scorpion2185[m]>I found out that you use a vncclient on android , it works
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12:48<scorpion2185[m]>https://github.com/EXALAB/AnLinux-App/issues/26
12:48<scorpion2185[m]>I used one updated 10 years ago on f-droid
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12:59<aucahuasi>hi, I built plasma and kwin with kdesrc-build but I cannot use the opengl compositor. How do I make sure that I'm bulding stuff with fully opengl support (for plasma, kwin, etc)
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13:01<sney>aucahuasi: #debian-kde would be more likely to know, if not #kde on libera
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13:01<sney>#debian is for end-user support with debian stable so custom packages are a bit out of the scope
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13:02<aucahuasi>ty! :)
13:02<sney>np
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13:10<redbrass>Looking for some assistance. See http://pastie.org/p/2txfnN3I59ZZrI5YSCdFUz. As near as I can tell the sequence of events would do nothing, because the script file part just defines some variables and functions. (ignoring the status messages to stdout)
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13:11<redbrass>This is a /bin/sh script - not bash. It is used for setting up a debian based system during the "installation" process.
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13:11<redbrass>I know the code actually mounts the image and runs the init script inside that image. But this code doesn't seem to do that. Am I correct in that analysis?
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13:13<sney>that would be my interpretation as well, just looking at this
13:13<redbrass>oh, and sorry if this is off topic. It *is* somewhat related as we are trying to do a custom installation of a bullseye platform.
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13:13<redbrass>Thanks sney. I was doubting myself.
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13:15<redbrass>I'm tracing through the process from UEFI boot through to completion. I hit this step and don't see how it can continue - the image's init script needs to run next and does in practice. I just can't figure out how it is running yet.
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13:15<sney>if you run it does it do something more than just set those variables and define functions?
13:16<sney>I looked up a bourne shell scripting doc in case there was some secret builtin that runs specially named functions, but I don't see anything like that
13:17<redbrass>It executes the next installation script. Prompts from some hardware details, configures the host hard drive, copies the filesystem to it, and runs apt-install.
13:17<redbrass>I was wondering that myself.
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13:17<redbrass>k. I'll have to ask the original author - who is away for another week yet.
13:19<sney>I wonder if you symlinked this script to /bin/true if the overall process would even change
13:19<redbrass>This is very deep in the weeds. I haven't had to worry about this sort of task since I was installing my first Gentoo system... :)
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13:22<redbrass>sney: If it helps, this is the calling script (a reasonable snippet). http://pastie.org/p/27RIayaOITuQBzjLyJ3k27
13:22<redbrass>It looks like the "exectute()" function needs to be called somewhere. I haven't found that call yet.
13:23<sney>yeah I mean, if you suspect the script does nothing, don't go crazy - test what would happen if it actually did nothing and returned a success (/bin/true)
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13:27<redbrass>hmm.. just found another script with the same name that does call execute. So I'm wondering if I was looking at the wrong file. This second one is called "iep-flash", which sources "iep-flash" from a different directory. A little confusing.
13:27<sney>haha oh production kludges, what fun
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13:29<redbrass>Thanks for the sounding board. I need to go verify I'm looking at the right stuff. It is confusing sometimes - 3 or 4 initramfs's a number of file system directories, etc. all with similar file names (which actually make sense given the intents).
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13:41<tzf>when I install debian 11 from a live-usb, live-usb is showing to be /dev/sda... HDD(/boot / /swap) is /dev/sdb... but grub try to install on /dev/sda means the usb-pendrive...
13:41<tzf>so no success
13:41<tzf>any idea?
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13:45<knghtbrd>tzf: install to sdb
13:46<knghtbrd>tzf: "sda", "sdb" mean nothing, the partitions have UUIDs
13:46<tzf>knghtbrd, grub on sdb? how?
13:47<knghtbrd>tzf: it won't be sdb after install
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13:47<tzf>hmm, interesting
13:47<knghtbrd>your system is UEFI I imagine?
13:47<tzf>yes
13:47<knghtbrd>UEFI can boot from anything
13:47<redbrass>tzf: if you are running the installer the grub step gives you an option which drive to install it to. Think of "sdb" as the CURRENT indicator for the hard drive. Next time it may be a different indicator.
13:47<knghtbrd>That needs some asterisks
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13:48<knghtbrd>But basically, the installer's gonna create a partition on your drive (sdb to the installer) with a FAT32 filesysttem on it can an EFI System Partition. Grub lives there.
13:49<knghtbrd>Grub will look for the partition it's told to (your /boot or / depending on how you install) and find its configuration there … but it doesn't just have it hardcoded like the lilo days … it searches for it.
13:49<knghtbrd>Then to boot Linux, grub will find your root partition by UUID, not by device name.
13:50<knghtbrd>(grub doesn't use Linux device names anyway.)
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13:50<knghtbrd>Linux, when booted, will enumerate the first sata or scsi drive it sees (the one it's booted off of) as sda and any others in the order it notices them. This order is arbitrary and might change from boot to boot.
13:51<knghtbrd>in practice on sata it won't. on usb it changes any time you start up a machine after plugging/unplugging any devices.
13:52<knghtbrd>if you want to see what it uses instead, pop a terminal in the installer and run blkid as root
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14:03<archivist>good morning
14:03<archivist>or whatever it is where you are
14:03<archivist>is there a systems guru in the house? i need a lot of help. i'm tired of reinstalling debian
14:04<alex11>it helps if you just ask your question
14:05<archivist>how do i 'activate' the root account for the login screen?
14:06<sarnold>what error do you get when you try to log in as root?
14:06<archivist>root isn't presented as an option. just my normal user account.
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14:08<sarnold>ah, so your display manager is presenting you with a menu, you're not just given a prompt for a username? hmm. what display manager are you using?
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14:08<archivist>i just reinstalled because i couldn't log in at all. i could type the password in, but neither pressing 'enter' nor clicking the 'log in' button had any effect. i think running the suggested 'apt autoremove' command is what farked it.
14:08<archivist>display manager -- kde plasma?
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14:11<archivist>i'm not new to computers -- by a long shot -- but i started on macs, had a brief interlude with an atari, then spent most of my life using Windows. i *knew* I didn't want to be a newbie again :( this transition is PAINFUL
14:11<sarnold>hmm, I can't figure out what display manager that'll use by default.. try this: ls -l /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service -- that'll probably say which display manager you're using
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14:12<archivist>ls: cannot access '/etc/systemd/display-manager.service': No such file or directory
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14:12<archivist>oops
14:12<omegatron>you forget another 'system/' in the path
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14:13<archivist>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 32 Dec 7 13:40 /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service -> /lib/systemd/system/sddm.service
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14:13<archivist>sddm, i suppose
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14:16<sarnold>https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=289&t=124502 has..
14:16<sarnold>SDDM maintainer here, eliasp is right you can't log in as root.
14:16<sarnold>It's explicitly banned and we won't add it in the future.
14:17<archivist>wtf?
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14:17<archivist>what good is having a computer if i can't do what i want with it?
14:17<omegatron>what has become of "the user is always right" huh? =D
14:18<Habbie>omegatron, whoever said that has never met a user
14:18<archivist>i thought that kind of thing was against the debian philosophy
14:18<sarnold>Habbie :)
14:18<sarnold>archivist: debian's a collection of tens of thousands of programs, some of which are more opinionated than others
14:18<sarnold>archivist: you could try swapping out sddm and using a different display manager to log in, but that might not be as easily managed from within KDE
14:18<omegatron>Habbie: let's rewind to the 50s-60s, where ONLY trained personnel (and often woman at that time) was ALLOWED to use/program a computer ... ah the old times
14:18<mason>Some of the opinions are almost worthy of listing in the DSM series.
14:19<Habbie>omegatron, i'm not arguing for that, but sometimes....
14:19<archivist>you don't know me, but if you did, you'd understand how bad it is when *I* want to call other people weirdos
14:19<archivist>doesn't happen often, but
14:20<archivist>linux people, are weirdos
14:21<archivist>machine should not say 'no' to human. whence cometh this aversion to logging in as root?
14:22<sarnold>it's been discouraged for the ~28ish years I've been using unix/linux
14:22<sarnold>it predates me
14:22<archivist>well it's news to me, and i've been using this miserable os for like 6 months or more now, and wearing out my rtfm merit badge
14:23<mason>archivist: https://youtu.be/uSdYXq4CHIQ
14:24<archivist>what's the difference between apper and discover? why are some options present in one but not the other? why did things seem to get weird when i uninstalled apper?
14:24<archivist>why do certain themes render the login screen unuseable?
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14:25<archivist>why does apt suggest i run 'apt autoremove' and then i can't log in again?
14:25<omegatron>welcome to the present/future: it presents you with a trillion options on your own computer and there is no single program what does exactly what you want - something is always missing or borked
14:25<mason>archivist: Anyway, the notion is that you should try to adhere to the principle of least privilege, and this has only gotten more important over time. Anyway, trolling about for a reasonable discussion I found this:
14:25<mason>https://askubuntu.com/questions/16178/why-is-it-bad-to-log-in-as-root
14:25<sarnold>apt-cache show apper and apt-cache show discover look like two vastly different tools
14:26<archivist>windows 7 has two security levels above administrator. most people don't even know they exist. talk about taking control out of the user's hands... and i even beat THAT
14:26<archivist>i do not take 'no' for an answer from MY OWN MACHINE
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14:27<mason>archivist: You can do almost anything if you set your mind to it. Just make sure you have thorough, tested, offline back-ups.
14:27<archivist>how long have people been developing debian? five minutes?
14:28<archivist>how do i make a service menu for dolphin that will create hard links? why does there seem to be some unspoken rule against anyone ever publishing that knowledge?
14:28<mason>archivist: That's not a productive statement. What's your goal? If you're just annoyed because you've learned something unpleasant or not to your taste, do what I try to do and just walk away a bit to let it cool.
14:28<archivist>i do a lot of things with my computer, mason.
14:29<mason>(Also, hard links can be wildly exciting in the bad way.)
14:29<archivist>i have years' of work in progress
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14:30<archivist>i don't need the infamous attitude. i need this pile of software to do what i tell it to.
14:30<mason>archivist: Read the source and nothing will remain unclear, then. I have to, so it's not some impossible hurdle.
14:31<archivist>i even hate the application launcher. i can't specify my own categories??
14:31<mason>Read the source and fork it. Add the new functions you want.
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14:31<sarnold>perhaps youd' prefer something other than KDE? try i3wm or dwm or windowmaker or something
14:31<mason>Or hire someone to do the same.
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14:31<archivist>sure mason, i'm getting younger by the minute like merlin.
14:31-!-hele [~hele@88-115-22-175.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:31<somiaj>Then maybe don't use a desktop. Desktops developers will make decisions on how they think things should work, be orginized, etc.
14:32<somiaj>I use a wm myself, because I find desktops a bit to bloated and preconfigured
14:32<omegatron>somiaj: which has been increasingly stupid in the past 10 years
14:32<mason>Mm, Openbox here, although I'm tempted to try Fluxbox to see if I like their tab-handling.
14:32<archivist>what's wm?
14:32<somiaj>Debian provides you lots of choice on which desktop or wm you use. Maybe you can find one you like better than KDE
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14:32<mason>window manager
14:32<somiaj>archivist: window manager
14:33<archivist>i want a desktop i can control every detail of
14:33<mason>archivist: In fact, if you're developing a kiosk or something where you want to define the interface, you're almost certainly going to want to steer clear of any of the heavyweight desktop environments.
14:33<mason>There you go. Pile tools atop a window manager. It's what I do.
14:33<archivist>why would i waste time with a 'kiosk'?
14:33<somiaj>window managers provide you a starting point that you can then build your own desktop from and control many things. In fvwm I can control almost everything.
14:34<mason>archivist: I have no idea what you're building.
14:34<archivist>i'm not building anything
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14:34<somiaj>But desktops are going to have a lot of preconfigured things that their design isn't to allow users to tweak each and everything, but to provide most things preconfigured in a framework
14:34<mason>archivist: Alright, you just want a UI you like? Start with a window manager and build up. My environment is utterly unique in that it's heavy on software or software harnesses I've written.
14:35<somiaj>But you may want to try other tools if you don't like the configuration KDE provides.
14:35<archivist>what's better than kde?
14:35<Sqrt{Not}>archivist, you don't need to be root 100% of the time. it is unnecessary, dangerous, and even stupid. Login as a normal user, and use "sudo" for the times you *need* to be root
14:35<sarnold>"better" depends upon who is using it
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14:35<archivist>sqrt{Not} thanks for repeating the linux mantra for the trillionth time, but i'll use my computer like a man, thanks
14:35<sarnold>gnome is the usual competition to kde but I'm going to guess you'd detest gnome with every fibre of your being
14:36<Sqrt{Not}>heh "like a man" geez, take a pill
14:36<mason>archivist: https://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/mel.html
14:36<archivist>gnome is pretty set and optionless, i'm guessing?
14:36<sarnold>yup
14:36<mason>"The Story of Mel, a Real Programmer"
14:36<archivist>yuck
14:36<sarnold>and every release they remove more options
14:36<archivist>most people should buy appliances and stay away from computers
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14:36<somiaj>There is also mate, cinnimon, xfce, and lxde, if you don't want to start with one of the 10+ window managers out there.
14:36<archivist>the whole point of a computer is it's infinitely reprogrammable
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14:37<mason>archivist: Read the story I linked. You'll like it, and find inspiration.
14:37<somiaj>then down load the source, and program it. Debian provides all of its sources for you to modify as you want.
14:37<archivist>people who actually LIKE 'smartpjhones' are worthless and should kill themselves
14:37<mason>archivist: That's unacceptable.
14:37<somiaj>but if you download someone else code, you'll be subject to decisions they make.
14:38<archivist>i agree. that level of poor taste is unacceptable
14:38<mason>!ops archivist encouraging suicide
14:38<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: mason complains about a problem (see above)
14:38<somiaj>archivist: please drop the attitude, it is not helping provide any support. If you are here just to rant, send it to /dev/null
14:38<archivist>buy a computer, they said, install linux, they said it's the best thing since sliced bread, they said. oh, btw, we don't advertise this, but we're more nazi than microsoft with your own admin account
14:39<somiaj>We can provide you more configurable options, and advise, you can choose to follow it, but adding noise and complainging isn't helping anyone.
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14:39<archivist>okay. how do i make a service menu for dolphin that will create hard links?
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14:40<mason>Read the source.
14:40<archivist>i've tried to figure out the commands til my head hurts, but i'm a newbie to all of this. don't know bash commands.
14:40<somiaj>You might be able to write a plugin for it. Or just open up a terminal and create one.
14:40<at0m>i'd do with "Open with.."
14:40<bremner>mason: that's also not helpful.
14:40<archivist>documentation for dolphin service menus is very sparse
14:41<archivist>"other [macros?] beside %u and %U" are mentioned, but i can't ever find any mention of the others
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14:42<mason>bremner: It's absolutely helpful. I have to read the source to understand behaviour pretty often. It's utterly reasonable advice, IMHO.
14:42<sarnold>mason: that story of Mel is awesome, thanks :)
14:42<mason>sarnold: Yar, it's a classic.
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14:42<archivist>i'm going to be a serial killer in my old age
14:42<mason>bremner: Especially since he wants custom behaviour, or behaviour that's not documented well if it is there.
14:43<archivist>custom behavior is the whole point of having a computer
14:43<mason>Examples here, I needed different keyboard interaction from urxvt's 'tabbed' extension so I had to read it to understand what I needed to do to rewrite it. Voila.
14:43<archivist>if you're telling me i can't make 'the might LINUX' do what i made windoze 7 do, then you all suck
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14:44<somiaj>archivist: again drop the attitude. You are asking for not standard things so most will not be able to say just do this. Read the docs. Though it might be worth just learning the command line, you could have had a hard link already made in the time it takes you to complain.
14:45<archivist>so what you're saying is you don't know either?
14:45<somiaj>you might have to write a custom plugin or script to add that feature.
14:45<somiaj>I don't use dolphin, I find file managers a tool that gets in my way.
14:45<archivist>the stupidest little thing -- making a hard link without having to resort to the console -- and there's no one here who can help me?
14:46<somiaj>Debian has 60,000 packages, most users only use the ones they need and don't know everything about all of them.
14:47<archivist>i went from being able to do it with two clicks -- to THIS bullshit
14:47<archivist>this is life as a debian user? eh?
14:48<sarnold>no, this is the life you've chosen. feel free to choose the life of someone who builds what they want.
14:48<omegatron>you have plenty of other linux WM/DE flavours to choose from ..
14:49<archivist>so tell me what's a better one than wht i'm using. i don't know. i'm the new guy.
14:49<archivist>plasma looked the best
14:49<archivist>i'm an artist, i like to customise my environment
14:50<omegatron>since we don't know your priority list, here is an overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions
14:51<somiaj>Try other ones until you find one you like. As I mentioned I dont like any desktop and prefer to build things up from a small window manager. You may like mate, or cinnimon. But at some level you'll get the most out of linux if you learn the command line.
14:51<archivist>i don't like my computer telling me 'no'
14:51<archivist>i need to customize everything
14:51<scorpion2185[m]>cinnamon?
14:51<omegatron>or, build your own - maybe the linuxfromscratch.org website can help you with that
14:51<somiaj>I'd personally suggest fvwm, you can configure almost all apsects of the window manager, but your issue is with the file manager, maybe try another file manager besides dolphin
14:52<archivist>yeah, i started reding that once. i eventually want to do that, but that's a big project and i've got others needing finished more urgently
14:52<somiaj>though I don't know of any off the top of my head that creates hard links..but here I have an XY problem. Why do you really want a hard link? What do you gain from this? I also personally only use soft links.
14:52<somiaj>well symbolic
14:52<archivist>somiaj: it doesn't matter why i want to make hard links.
14:53<archivist>it's possible; the question here is HOW
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14:53<Sqrt{Not}>you could have made 200 hard links by now, if you opened a command line
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14:53<archivist>two clicks
14:53<sarnold>or written a program to make millions :)
14:53<somiaj>only 200, make a loop and you could have hard linked everything
14:53<archivist>i want a hard link in two clicks, it's what i'm used to, it's my established workflow
14:54<omegatron>as a side note: if you want to try linuxfromscratch, there is also the "ALFS" (automated linux from scratch) on their website, which gives you some script to build/install all those packages in almost fullly automated manner - could save you some time
14:54<somiaj>you can try other file managers, but basically you are asking for a feature that isn't in dolphin. So unless you write it yourself, most woul djust go to the command line and have a hard link in a few seconds.
14:54<archivist>nice, omegatron, i'll take a look at it
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14:54<scorpion2185[m]>spacefm is FM wtih custom commands etc
14:55<archivist>somiaj: that's what i'm asking: how do i write it?
14:55<scorpion2185[m]>you can add a button and/or a entry in the menu+
14:55<imMute>archivist: windows doesn't have hard links, btw.
14:55<imMute>not from explorer.exe anyway
14:56<archivist>you think i used explorer?
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14:56<Sqrt{Not}>command.com ??
14:56<sarnold>4dos!
14:56<archivist>the only microsoft software i used was their crappy OS, which i spent years taming into something decent
14:57<archivist>i don't have the time to crawl around in diapers with linux
14:57<imMute>then go back to windows.
14:57<archivist>that's why i came to ask questions that six months of digging at debian.org, the administrators handbook, etc etc havent answered
14:57<at0m>archivist: dull thing to say when you're asking people to spend time on your issue
14:58<at0m>archivist: as for dolphin, there's undoubtedly a #kde channel somewhere or even #debian-kde here with probably more people in the know on that hardlink menu issue
14:58<archivist>i'm not the dull one here. i'm not the one with the insufferable attitude. no one can answer my question, but they sure can dodge with a lot of attitude. "WHY do you want to make har dlinks anyway? why do you want to log in as root anyway?" pfft suck an ass
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14:59<archivist>technical issues. technical questions. but i'm not getting technical answers.
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14:59<imMute>no you're definitely insufferable.
14:59<imMute>which is why people aren't going out of their way to help you.
14:59<archivist>no one here knows bash well enough to help me write a dolphin service menu to produce a hard link?
15:00<sarnold>no, no one here knows dolphin well enough to write service menus
15:00<archivist>wow
15:00<sarnold>and since you're being a jerk even if there is someone, I doubtr such a hypothetical person would help much
15:00<scorpion2185[m]>log in as root? obviously you want to do it
15:00<archivist>you do a fine job of projecting
15:00<Sqrt{Not}>%dolphin
15:00<dselect>Dolphin is the default file manager in KDE Software Compilation 4. http://dolphin.kde.org/ #kde on irc.libera.chat. See also <dolphin-emu>.
15:00<stwalkerster>archivist: Have you heard of an XY question? It's a fairly common thing for someone to ask how to solve a specific problem, rather then ask for guidance on their general problem. That's why you're being asked "why hardlink?" - there may be a different way to accomplish your overall goal that you haven't thought of that doesn't involve hardlinks at
15:00<sarnold>your best bet, if you want to keep using dolphin, is to head to vworker or fivrr or something similar and hire someone to write the tools you want.
15:01<stwalkerster>all.
15:01<Sqrt{Not}>archivist, read that web page. go to that irc channel.
15:01<archivist>i don't care whether or not i use dolphin.
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15:01<archivist>assumptions, meh.
15:01<archivist>what a waste of time
15:01<Sqrt{Not}>agreed
15:02<at0m>!next
15:02<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
15:02<archivist>yup
15:02<archivist>so you're just a bunch of losers circlejerking over this linux thing because it's esoteric and makes you feel like part of an in-group? it's not REALLY the better OS?
15:02-!-mode/#debian [+o bremner] by ChanServ
15:02-!-mode/#debian [+q archivist!*@*] by bremner
15:03<@bremner>you were repeatedly warned to tone it down.
15:03<sarnold>archivist: no, we're just sick of people not being willing to learn anything
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15:03<@bremner>ok, the discusssion is over, tyvm
15:04<scorpion2185[m]>!tyvm
15:04<dpkg>hmm... tyvm is thank you very much
15:04<cowboypenguin>thanks mods
15:05-!-mode/#debian [-o bremner] by ChanServ
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15:08<scorpion2185[m]>what is a package for front-end dialog?
15:08<somiaj>there are ways to search reverse depends. You could search for packages that depend on dialog as a starting point
15:09<scorpion2185[m]>on phone Debian I get that error
15:09<sarnold>scorpion2185[m]: what exactly are you looking for? I think I would have expected 'dialog' itself as the answer..
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15:10<bremner>what is "phone debian"?
15:10<scorpion2185[m]>i don't know phone Debian is minimal and apt need something to display front-end dialog
15:10<bremner>do you mean mobian?
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15:11<scorpion2185[m]>I don't think, is Debian BUster from anlinux (android=) app
15:11<scorpion2185[m]>armh (?) arch
15:11<bremner>huh. never heard of anlinux.
15:12<somiaj>appears to be an app to run linux on andriod without root access...sounds quite based on debian, though maybe it is like running buster in some vm.
15:13<sarnold>scorpion2185[m]: try: sudo apt install dialog ; DEBIAN_FRONTEND=dialog apt install whatever
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15:13<scorpion2185[m]>i ll try later, thanks. Only a few phone can run Debian , right?
15:14<imMute>I don't think any phones can run stock Debian.
15:15<earendel>oh can i have a try on archivist?
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15:15<earendel>meine kragenweite :>
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15:41<scorpion2185[m]>mobian supports 2 android phones and not completely
15:43<scorpion2185[m]>on anlinux you automatically run as root :)
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15:59<scorpion2185[m]>I was missing the dialog package indeed, so now tasksel is displayed correctl, thanks
15:59<sarnold>scorpion2185[m]: woot
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16:08<aloo_shu>anlinux won't run debian (or any of the other distro) perfectly, the mechanism it is using, is a real cool hack, but is having limitations, and any day, team 'everything is dangerous' may have the idea to disable the mechanism it is relying on, by default. The better question is, why do people have to resort to this trickery at all in order to use the best of debian as an unprivileged
16:08<aloo_shu>user? there's nothing speaking against making it easy to use apt without privileges to install into a space apart that the user has permissions for, or letting him run an unprivileged Xorg that listens on a port, or a vnc server
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16:24<mason>aloo_shu: That's sort of the model Guix uses, as I understand it. Per-user package space, among other things.
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16:42<aloo_shu>I'm not necessarily wanting a new model, but in some scenarios, android being one of them, users don't have root access, and perhaps debian could come their way by enabling configurations that are getting the most out of debian as an unprivileged guest
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16:54<imMute>that sounds like a lot of work, so how are you going to motivate the Debian Developers to do it?
16:56<aloo_shu>good question
16:59*aloo_shu feels tempted to ask "who's paying them now?"
16:59<aloo_shu>the elation of knowing you're helping people to reconquer software freedom (the right to modify)
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17:07<imMute>a lot of them are either getting paid by their employer to work on Debian or are working on personal stuff that they do for fun.
17:07<imMute>"the elation of knowing you're helping people to reconquer software freedom" sounds like paying artists in exposure.
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17:10<aloo_shu>but it wouldn't have to be like some immediate, specific work, more like an aspect to bear in mind, 'does this app need root? can this app be useful without root?' - that's the kind of though-trigger apps like anlinux can give, because only making the/some apps think that they can run as root, is apparantly enough to get a functioning desktop environment with the ability to install
17:10<aloo_shu>apps, while neither the host system nor the kernel are convinced by that sharade, the apps haven't actually gained a single privilege, which means that they must be, in a manner of speaking, self-inhibiting
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17:23<mason>Between spelling and content, I sense a resurrection of archivist.
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17:39<nrb>hey, how can i get older packages (e.g. from buster) on bullseye? for example old builds of gcc
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17:40<mason>nrb: Grab source packages and build, probably.
17:40<mason>nrb: You'll probably need to adjust some versions, and some things might simply not build against newer libraries, but it's that or a chroot.
17:40<sney>previous gcc versions will likely cause dependency conflicts, there's a lot going on with those and the transitions were pretty significant during the bullseye cycle
17:41<sney>smaller packages can often be installed directly from oldstable, but I wouldn't expect it to work with a toolchain
17:41<mason>Good point. Populate a chroot with debootstrap and use that rather than rebuilding.
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17:41<sney>even building gcc-8 will probably get hairy
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17:42<miracoli1>have a nice good evening
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17:42<nrb>thanks guys
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17:48<Sqrt{Not}>nrb, if you just need some buster thing for a one-off project, it might be easier to boot a buster live-system, and install into it what you need.
17:48<nrb>okay
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18:15<enyc>Sqrt{Not} nrb : a chroot buster can easily be created too
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18:20<amir>Hi
18:20<amir>:|
18:21<sarnold>hi amir
18:21<amir>How are you sarnold?
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18:25<amir>hey!
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18:27<sussudio>!chat
18:27<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
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18:36<redbrass>using "dpkg -i" to install python3-can from file on device with no network. It depends on python3-wrapt. I have python3-wrapt in my packages directory, but the installation doesn't seem to know how to find it.
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18:36<redbrass>Do I need to make sure that python3-wrapt is installed first (via dpkg -i), or is there some other trick I might be able to use?
18:36<sarnold>try dpkg -i python3-can-whatever python3-wrapt-whatever
18:38<redbrass>it is in a script that is simply looping over the files in the packages directory. It doesn't know about dependencies. Something like for file in $(ls /packages); do; dpkg -i $file; done;
18:38<sarnold>try to replace that with dpkg -i /packages/*
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18:41<redbrass>hmm.. interesting. That might work. Eitherway we'll have to modify our script. Turns out the /packages directory has all possible packages the installer *may* want, and then it chooses which to install based on the hardware it detects it is running on.
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18:42<redbrass>But if we were to replace that with a "copy the model specific packages to a temp directory, then dpkg -i /tempdir/*, I think that might solve the issue.
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18:43<redbrass>Thanks for the feedback sarnold.
18:43<sarnold>or have a list of "common packages", lists of model packages, and build a dpkg -i command from those
18:44<sarnold>or make some metapackages that just have Depends: on the right packages, and use apt-ftparchive to build a local apt repo thing that you can shove to apt, and let apt sort out what needs to installed in what order
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18:46<redbrass>we do have something like that. But with recurisve model inheritance. i.e. the "GB05G2" model also needs packages for the "_r4", "_e200", "_gps_garmin", and "_radio-80211" models.
18:47<redbrass>We handle that for downloading the relevant packages to begin with. Looks like the original code just never had to handle a dependency like this - the dependencies just happened to be listed first...
18:47<redbrass>Thanks for the ideas.
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18:48<sarnold>redbrass: cool cool :)
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19:38<BANANA>I will make you beautiful face mask and put cucumbers on your eyes while I slowly and gleefully poop in your face and then I will massage the poop into your face
19:38<BANANA>and everyone will think "wow he's a black guy now how did he do that?" while everyone wonders why your face smells so much like poop
19:38<BANANA>and while you enjoy your mass and you get nothing I will wallpaper your walls with shit and let it dry with a hair dryer while the hair dryer the aroma of the poop unfolds and your house is nicely ventilated so that you always have a fresh aroma at home
19:39<sney>lovely
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20:22<mason>I don't think that one was archivist, but it's hard to know.
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21:37<professor>hey
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21:39<sney>hi
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22:21<knghtbrd>mason: we have a couple semi-regular douchebags who visit
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22:23<magyar>hi, trying to dual boot a 2011 macbook pro and bullseye, but having issues with grub install and apfs drive partitions
22:23<sussudio>haven't seen marwan in a while. maybe he was eaten by a lion.
22:24<knghtbrd>it's funny that a lot of them seem to fall back on racially charged stupidity since I sort of doubt they genuinely care about skin color in the least … it's just apparently the fastest way to rile people up, and they aren't very imaginative.
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22:26<sney>magyar: what have you tried, and what problems are you having?
22:27<magyar>sney: grup will not install during the install process, missing efi partition
22:27<magyar>"grub-install: error: cannot find EFI directory"
22:28<sney>is there more info on the console on tty4?
22:28<magyar>not really
22:29<magyar>https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/MacBookPro/7-1 < this link seems to indicate linux/grub/apfs issues
22:29<magyar>but they don't point out exactly what it is
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22:34<sney>hmm, the last person to edit that wiki page has an email address listed at https://wiki.debian.org/mieum, maybe you could contact them for more hints
22:34-!-CeBe [~cebe@2a02:560:4cb4:5d00:1cb0:fa4b:13d1:8531] has joined #debian
22:34-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian #packaging
22:35<sney>though the note about grub and apfs dates back to buster at least
22:37<magyar>got it, thank you sney, I'll try to reach out
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22:43-!-terrorjack5 is "Cheng Shao" on #debian #C #alpine-linux #alpine-devel
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23:31-!-freq is now known as archer
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23:33<rektide>i'm running systemd-networkd and systemd-resolved. networkctl status wlan0 shows that networkd knows the dns server addresses. but these dont end up in /etc/resolv.conf, and my system otherwise never is able to resolve public ip addresses. what is going wrong here? what do i need to do?
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23:34<rektide>oh false alarm, i'd 'systemctl start systemd-networkd' in a previous boot, but hadn't actually enabled it, it wasn't running.
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23:44<jmcnaught>rektide: "systemctl --now enable foo.service" to start and enable in a single command
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 08 00:00:36 2021