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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-15

---Logopened Wed Dec 15 00:00:19 2021
---Daychanged Wed Dec 15 2021
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00:32<r4fkramer>Hi all, I'm trying to install 'firmware-amd-graphics', it has non-free components, so I include backports non-free to my sources.list. But, whenever I try to install it, there is such messages: https://paste.debian.net/1223501/
00:33<r4fkramer>And, according this information in Debian Official Site 'firmware-amd-graphics' is the real name for this package: https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo
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00:34<r4fkramer>So, what's the real problem here ? I really can't understand these apparently contradictions...
00:34<raven523>did you run "apt update"?
00:34<r4fkramer>Yes, raven523, let me confirm here, just one moment..
00:35<raven523>it looks like you enabled non-free for bullseye-backports but not for bullseye
00:35<r4fkramer>E: Package 'firmware-amd-graphics' has no installation candidate
00:35<r4fkramer> - the same messages previously displayed, raven523
00:35<raven523>you also need to enable contrib for bullseye
00:36<r4fkramer>Really, so my sources.list are incomplete ?
00:37<raven523>correct
00:37<r4fkramer>raven523, do you refer to backports list ?
00:37<r4fkramer>main contrib non-free at the end of this line ?
00:37<raven523>the instructions on https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo do not say to update the backports line
00:38<raven523>you should add contrib and non-free to the bullseye line, the bullseye-updates line, and maybe the bullseye-backports line
00:38<somiaj>you only added non-free to your backports line, but not to your main bullseye line
00:39<somiaj>and yes you'll probably want main contrib non-free on all your sources if you want non-free software
00:39<r4fkramer>I avoided non-free iso, for I suspect it is the cause of so continuous issues related to apache or any other service
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00:40<r4fkramer>Oh God ! I would like to avoid it, and only use non-free for this package. I'll do it now and hope be back to original sources.list afterwards
00:40<jcbjoe2021>So long story short was on Debian but really wanted to try arch to get out out of my system. Tried arch had a meeting today and mic didn't work. I was furious. Was about to revert back to windows but reminders Debian just worked. Put on bullseye again today looked in gnome and looks like I have input and output for sound. I'm happy. Can't go wrong
00:40<jcbjoe2021>with Debian
00:41<r4fkramer>I really need this package in this OS, for it is needed for this computer
00:41<raven523>do not change sources.list after. You will not get updates for these packages
00:41<raven523>I'm not sure if there's a way to use apt policy or pinning to just allow these packages from non-free
00:42<r4fkramer>Fine raven523, I will do it now. I will be back to tell about the result.
00:42<r4fkramer>Thank you very much for attention and Great Support :) The same to somiaj :)
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00:51<r4fkramer>Please, raven523 and somiaj, 'firmware-amd-graphics' installed here. But, should I need to install any other generic firmwares ? https://paste.debian.net/1223505/
00:51<raven523>no idea
00:52<r4fkramer>firmware-amd-graphics is so extensive, no ?
00:52<somiaj>what gpu do you have? What gpu are you using? That should clearly answer your question about what firmware to install
00:53<somiaj>Personally I think you are searching to fix something that dosen't need fixing. Are you using xorg? Do you notice any issues with your graphics? If not, it won't matter
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00:55<sney>!warning
00:55<dpkg>Yerp, lots of software outputs warnings. Kernel module warnings on boot, possible missing firmware warnings, GTK warnings, X11 warnings, build warnings, gpg warnings. Don't be scared - informative output is a GOOD THING. Consider yourself warned, and if the program works as expected, be happy.
00:56<r4fkramer>Ok somiaj, in fact you are right. Probably it's an excessive concern about sudden problems, such as what has recently occured to the last two Debian facilities.
00:57<r4fkramer>Anyway, thank you very much for your attention and support!
00:57<somiaj>Are you talking about your issue with apache2?
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00:57<r4fkramer>Yes, believe or not, it has happened again. I reinstalled the whole OS, and for my surprise, after the second reboot, the issue was there again
00:58<somiaj>graphics firmware has nothing to do with apache2
00:58<r4fkramer>Obs: I didn't install anything, didn't make any configuration, just rebooted the OS fresh install
00:58<somiaj>your issue with apache2 was due to something on your end causing the log directory /var/log/apache2 to not exist.
00:58<somiaj>As to why this directory was not existing on your system, I don't know, but something unstandard is happening.
00:58<r4fkramer>Yes, sure, I am only explaining about my suspicious related to non official ISO for non-free packages
00:59<r4fkramer>Now everything is running. I hope it continue like that.
00:59<r4fkramer>Thank you somiaj, I need to go now. See You !
01:00<r4fkramer>Thank you very much again raven523 ! Thanks for recomendation, sney :)
01:00<r4fkramer>Bye all !
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01:15<jcbjoe2021>Are there any other Linux channels you guys knows bout I can idle and ask questions when I need help when Debian is sleep? Just wondering
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01:29<somiaj>cross posting is considered rude, and for debian questions you should ask them here
01:30<somiaj>there are people all over the world here, so someone is usually awake, just be patient
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01:51<popsmoke>why am i unable to install 'leafpad' ? https://paste.debian.net/1223506/
01:51<cc>,v leafpad
01:51<judd>Package: leafpad on amd64 -- stretch: 0.8.18.1-5
01:51<sney>,bug rm leafpad
01:52<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/913789 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: leafpad -- RoQA; abandoned upstream, rc-buggy»; severity: normal; opened: 2018-11-15; last modified: 2019-04-16.
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01:52<cc>it's removed from all current debian repositories
01:52<cc>try mousepad for replacement
01:52<popsmoke>oh i see
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04:16<otisolsen70>When I try to mount an NFS share, I get this error: "mount.nfs: requested NFS version or transport protocol is not supported
04:16<otisolsen70>". On the server, nothing is in the logs. The share is defined like this in fstab: server:/data/video /net/video nfs nfsvers=3,timeo=60,intr,rsize=16384,wsize=16384,noauto,user 0 0
04:16<otisolsen70>This share can be mounted just fine from other machines on the LAN. Only this one client seems to fail.
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04:17<otisolsen70>The server and the other clients are debian 10. This one client that fails is debian 11. And this is the only debian 11 client.
04:17<otisolsen70>So I guess something must have happened to NFS between those versions?
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05:01<twb>rclobus: hi, what's your problem with snapshot.debian.org?
05:02<rclobus>I have a question of snapshot.debian.org. Yesterday I was using the other snapshot service (snapshot.notset.fr) and there I noticed a synchronisation issue.
05:02<rclobus>The question is: when a timestamp is listed at the snapshot service, is the snapshot complete at that time?
05:03<twb>I've never heard of notset.fr. The name suggests it's not managed by Debian.
05:03<rclobus>Or will some files still be added while the snapshot is being created?
05:03<twb>rclobus: hrm... I'm not sure
05:04<rclobus>This is primarily about snapshot.debian.org. I am using snapshots for reproducible builds of Debian live images,
05:04<twb>rclobus: it's a reasonable GUESS that the snapshot is only visible once it's "finished", but I don't know how to actually check.
05:04<twb>Good luck with that. I get auto-banned.
05:04<rclobus>and I am always using the latest snapshot. If such a snapshot is incomplete, I would perhaps then rather use the snapshot that is one sync-round older.
05:05<twb>debbisect has some code to use snapshot.debian.org "nicely", so without getting banned, but it was too complicated for me to understand
05:07<rclobus>Avoiding banning is one of the reasons that the service that is run by fepitre on snapshot.notset.fr was created.
05:08<rclobus>It is not a complete snapshot, but contains only (IIRC) x86_64 and at least the latest 3 versions: stable, testing, unstable
05:08<twb>What I did in the past was just maintain a full mirror, using debmirror.
05:09<twb>I mean a mirror of everything in --arch=all,amd64 --suite=stable,stable/updates or thereabouts
05:09<twb>Actually perhaps the best place to ask about this is #reproducible-builds
05:11<rclobus>twb: Thanks. I'll redirect my question to #reproducible-builds
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05:31<thomas_>Hello. I installed a debian system from a netinst usbstick without realizing that the realtek NIC is non-free software and therefore wasn’t installed. So now I have a standalone system, not connected to the internet. How can I install the https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/firmware-realtek drivers without internet, so the NIC would work?
05:33<selckin>https://wiki.debian.org/RescueLive boot using the usb, mount your install, chroot into it, and install the firmware
05:34<twb>thomas_: does "apt install --print-uris firmware-realtek" print a list of URIs?
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05:34<twb>If so I'd just wget them, copy them over on USB key, then do "apt install ./*.deb"
05:35<thomas_>twb: no
05:35<thomas_>twb: where are the .deb file? I can’t find it in https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/firmware-realtek
05:35<thomas_>*is
05:35<petn-randall>thomas_: Easiest and fastest is to take the firmware installer and just install again.
05:35<petn-randall>!firmware images
05:35<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>.
05:36<twb>thomas_: --> https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/all/firmware-realtek/download --> http://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/firmware-realtek_20210315-3_all.deb
05:44<thomas_>twb: I installed the .deb, rebooted and eno1 has only an IPv6 address. I launched # dhclient eno1 but nothing more. /etc/network/interfaces reads allow-hotplug eno1 and auto eno1 and iface eno1 inet dhcp
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05:44<twb>thomas_: dhclient is installed?
05:44<twb>thomas_: what does "networkctl" say?
05:45<twb>It's probably not "eno1".
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05:46<thomas_>"systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete". Then it lists eno1 ether n/a unmanaged, wlo1 wlan n/a unmanaged
05:46<twb>Huh.
05:47<petn-randall>Yes, networkd is not used by default on Debian.
05:47<twb>Instead of /etc/network/interfaces, I would do this: printf '[Match]\nType=ether\nName=en*\n[Network]\nDHCP=yes\n' >>/etc/systemd/network/50-thomas-wired.network && systemctl enable --now systemd-networkd systemd-resolved
05:47<twb>petn-randall: I meant "huh, eno1 wasn't renamed to enp2s1f3"
05:47<twb>petn-randall: because systemd-udevd *is* enabled by default :-)
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05:48<petn-randall>twb: Why configure a non-default networkd for them? I'd use ifupdown or network-manager instead, that'll create less maintenance burden in the long run.
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05:49<twb>petn-randall: because debian defaults to systemd, and systemd doesn't work well with things that aren't systemd
05:50<petn-randall>twb: That's not true.
05:50<twb>That's my experience
05:50<petn-randall>twb: network-manager is working fine on >90% of all Debian installations.
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05:50<twb>network-manager is only installed by default on GUI systems.
05:50<petn-randall>Yes, in that case ifupdown is used.
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05:51<twb>ifupdown is installed by default, but only on Debian. It can be removed. networkd is also installed and CAN'T be removed, unless you remove systemd entirely (except for systemd-udevd).
05:52<petn-randall>All that is irrelevant to the support case.
05:52<twb>petn-randall: you asked why I do it. I'm telling you why.
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05:52<thomas_>petn-randall: maybe I should consider reinstalling the firmware-netinst system?
05:52<petn-randall>!firmware images
05:52<dpkg>There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>.
05:53<petn-randall>thomas_: Yes, easiest is to pick this one here. ^^^
05:53<twb>thomas_: I guess that depends if you think it's more annoying to sit through another complete install, or to try to fix it :-)
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05:54<thomas___>sorry, I was disconnected
05:55<thomas___>I am "burning" it to a usbstick
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05:55<thomas___>firmware-11.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso, I mean
05:55<twb>petn-randall: I mean... you're right, since it's thomas, I probabl shouldn't have mentioned networkd at all
05:56<twb>I just get cranky that we ended up with systemd, and then DON'T use it fully
05:56<twb>Either go all-in or all-out, don't stand with one foot in the grave!
05:56<thomas___>I am not the same Thomas you may think about. I came randomly. Not used to this chat
05:56<twb>thomas___: ah OK sorry :-)
05:56<twb>thomas___: the thomas I know uh... needs a lot of help :-)
05:56<thomas___>I rather call myself tlatelolco, but I was in a hurry to get an answer
05:58<thomas___>There are Thomases like that ;)
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06:03<otisolsen70>nfsstat -c on the client yields: Error: No Client Stats (/proc/net/rpc/nfs: No such file or directory)
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06:16<twb>otisolsen70: NFSv4 or NFSv3?
06:17<twb>otisolsen70: NFSv4 doesn't need rpcbind at all, so possibly you've got NFSv4 working with rpcbind disabled, and not noticed
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06:28<spawacz>Do nftables conflict with iptables?
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06:31<zoke>spawacz: recent iptables packages use the same backend as nftables
06:31<zoke>spawacz: easy to check by listing the rules using both utilities
06:34<zoke>spawacz: i.e. no conflict, just different frontends
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06:40<otisolsen70>twb, this is NFSv3
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06:41<Wulf>Hello! Is there a way to create a .deb file from an installed debian package?
06:41<selckin>in theory if you hate life the universe and everything
06:41<Wulf>selckin: let's say I do.
06:42<selckin>i don't so, good luck
06:43<spawacz>zoke: in deed, even ufw uses the same backend
06:44<Anarka>Wulf: never used it but check dpkg-repack
06:44<twb>otisolsen70: OK. "rpcinfo -p" I guess.
06:45<twb>otisolsen70: also switch to NFSv4 right away, it's MUCH less shit. You do *not* need to do kerberos or gidmap or all-one-mount, despite early lies.
06:45<twb>otisolsen70: you can pretty much just remove "nfsvers=3" from the mount options. If your client isn't Debian, you may need to explicitly add "sec=sys" to disable krb
06:46<Wulf>Anarka: thanks
06:46<otisolsen70>twb, all clients and servers are debian.
06:46<otisolsen70>twb, however, most are debian 10, 1 is 11 and 1 is 9.
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06:53<petn-randall>Wulf: dpkg-repack can do that, but it comes with a lot of caveats. So you should only do this if you explored all other options.
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06:53<Wulf>it solved my problem pretty well. I had an old version of a package installed and a new package version is available. I wanted to know the differences.
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07:00<petn-randall>Wulf: It's usually in the changelog with Debian packages. Though there are shitty 3rd party repos that ignore that.
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07:01<Wulf>petn-randall: not a repo at all. It's an application that creates debian packages.
07:01<twb>I am 100% definitely sure that Debian 9 can talk NFSv4 to Debian 9
07:01<twb>(and newer versions are also fine)
07:02<twb>Wulf: to find diferences, I would run "debdiff old.deb new.deb" or even better old.changes new.changes
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07:20<Wulf>twb: thanks, will try it next time
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07:30<baka>when i try to download something i keep on getting this error [is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.]
07:31<petn-randall>baka: You're trying to use sudo with a user that's not part of the sudoers group.
07:31<baka>how to i get a sudoers group
07:32<petn-randall>baka: What's the full command you're using? Downloading per se doesn't need sudo powers.
07:32<baka>sudo apt-get install wireless-tools
07:32<petn-randall>baka: Which OS are you running, and did you provide a root password during install?
07:33<baka>i changed my user to admin
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07:34<baka>my root is the same as login
07:35<baka>Debian GNU/Linux 11 bullseye (x86-64) is my os
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07:38<petn-randall>baka: Then you need to use `su -` to gain root privilege.
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07:39<petn-randall>!sudoers
07:39<dpkg>From Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" onwards, you can grant yourself (minimally secure) root permissions for <sudo> by adding yourself to the "sudo" group: "adduser your_username sudo". Re-login to gain group membership. See the man pages indicated by "apropos sudo" for more information.
07:39<petn-randall>baka: ^
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07:40<baka>thanks
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08:36<gushu>Hi, when I try to upgrade to bullseye, it says there's not enough space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. I tried apt-get autoremove, but didn't seem to help. Ant ideas?
08:36<berto>apt-get clean
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08:38<bremner>gushu: there are some hints in the release notes
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08:41<gushu>OK, I will read those. Thanks
08:45<otisolsen70>twb, I will look into nfsv4. Thanks
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09:03<gushu>Can I safely delete /var/cache/apt/archives/partial?
09:05<bremner>I believe so.
09:05<bremner>or at least the contents
09:06<gushu>thanks, I'll give it a go
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09:25<spawacz>is "net.ipv4.ip_forward" in /etc/sysctl.conf required to setup forwarding between interfaces?
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09:28<zoke>spawacz: yes
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09:31<zoke>spawacz: net.ipv4.ip_forward needs to be set in some manner (/etc/sysctl.conf or /etc/sysctl.d/foo.conf for automatic setting on boot)
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09:51<spawacz>sudo /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp -d MY_WAN --dport 7777 -j DNAT --to 169.254.118.61:7777
09:51<spawacz>i can nc to 169.254.118.61:7777 from inside my VPS
09:51<spawacz>but i cant frm outside world
09:54<spawacz>oh there is something in the log
09:55<spawacz>Dec 15 14:54:13 foobarbaz kernel: [ 6943.341873] [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT=ve-debian MAC=spoof SRC=my_home_ip DST=169.254.118.61 LEN=48 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=109 ID=1174 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=53469 DPT=7777 WINDOW=8192 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0
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09:56<spawacz>but my ufw allows "7777/tcp ALLOW Anywhere"
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11:04<zoke>spawacz: is it allowed in the forward table?
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11:06<zoke>spawacz: I have no experience with ufw but I know that forwards have to be allowed in iptables in order for DNAT entries to work
11:06<spawacz>why ufw restart is polluting iptables?
11:06<spawacz>i change my before.rules, reload, restart ufw and inside iptables i see old rules all the time
11:06<spawacz>and new rules are appearing on the bottom
11:07<spawacz>well i think i give up
11:07<zoke>spawacz: why are you mixing ufw and iptables?
11:07<spawacz>no
11:07<spawacz>im using ufw exclusively, but i ask iptables for information
11:08<zoke>iptables have a nasty habit of creating some default chains iirc
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11:08<zoke>stopped using it a few years ago in favor of nftables
11:10<spawacz>okay so i have this on top
11:10<spawacz> pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination
11:10<spawacz> 27 1368 DNAT tcp -- eth0 * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:7777 to:192.168.5.146:7777
11:10<spawacz>y
11:10<spawacz>everytime i knock to this port the pkts get increased by 1
11:10<petn-randall>spawacz: Ask your firewall maintainer.
11:10<zoke>also.. iirc you need some matching SNAT/masquerade in postrouting
11:10<spawacz>but in the 192.168.5.146:7777 there is nothing
11:10<spawacz>yes i did that
11:10<petn-randall>spawacz: And what did they say?
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11:11<spawacz>i am the admin here
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11:11<spawacz>but you mean "ask ufw maintainers"?
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11:12<nr0q_radio>aka "the people that develop your firewall software"
11:12<petn-randall>spawacz: No. You created the firewall rules, you're the only person who can answer this question.
11:12<petn-randall>spawacz: We can't know where 192.168.5.146 leads to, that's only something you can know.
11:12<spawacz>yes but when ierase them, they persist in the iptables. When i restart ufw, another, the same rule is added
11:13<spawacz>and when i check logs, ufw filters byt the first rule in iptables, the only way to get rid of it is to reoboot
11:13<petn-randall>spawacz: Then have a look into your ufw config.
11:13<petn-randall>spawacz: That's a port forwarding rule that might also be created by docker or other tools.
11:13<spawacz>i only changed before.rules. when i restore it to original state the old rules persist (NOT in the file but in the iptables)
11:15<zoke>flush all tables before reloading
11:15<petn-randall>spawacz: By default Debian comes with no firewall rules, so whatever creates them is something you installed.
11:15<spawacz>nothhing creates anything new. the problem is old ones are not removed
11:15<spawacz>nevermind...
11:16<petn-randall>spawacz: How are the old ones created?
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11:16<spawacz>they are created after every ufw restart
11:16<spawacz>i restart ufw when i appply some changes
11:16<spawacz>i expect the old ones to be gone... as i remove them
11:17<zoke>sounds like ufw only adds from it's configuration and won't remove entries not in the config... is this correct?
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11:17<spawacz>YESSSS
11:17<spawacz>iptables -t nat -F
11:17<spawacz>this helped to remove the old ones
11:17<zoke>stop ufw, flush all rules, and then start ufw
11:18<pron>remove uhw !! install ferm!!
11:18*pron hides
11:18<pron>ufw*
11:18*petn-randall uses shorewall.
11:19<zoke>nftables :p
11:19*pron used it last time idk 15y ago ?:D
11:19<RoyK>use ipchains or ipfwadm, iptables or nftables are just new and fancy stuff that doesn't work like the good old stuff (tm) :þ
11:19<zoke>the good old ipchains days :p
11:19<RoyK>hehe
11:20<pron>nftables syntax looks similar to ferm tbh
11:20<RoyK>!ferm
11:20<dpkg>ferm (For Easy Rule Making) is a frontend for <iptables> to maintain and set up complicated firewall rules. http://wiki.debian.org/ferm http://ferm.foo-projects.org/ #ferm on irc.libera.chat.
11:20<spawacz>i flushed iptables, reloaded/restarted ufw and now dns resolution is not working on my box
11:20<spawacz>i go for a walk
11:20<RoyK>looks like nftables
11:20<zoke>since it's a frontend for iptables I guess it's not as useful as nftables
11:20<RoyK>I'd better use nftables instead of ferm as a frontend
11:21<pron>oh, yes
11:21<pron>if you can
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11:21<RoyK>you can if you run a new distro
11:21<zoke>took a while to get used to nftables from iptables... but it's pretty nice
11:21<pron>not everyone has that kind of luxury
11:21<pron>:=)
11:21<RoyK>IIRC iptables is just a frontend for nftables these days
11:22<pron>this is a good point
11:22<zoke>since buster iirc
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11:23<pron>i havent used them tho
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11:23<zoke>dynamic rules using sets are a really nice feature
11:23<pron>so the logis there is the same as for iptables and whole flow?
11:23<pron>so the logic there is the same as for iptables and whole flow?
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11:26<zoke>pretty much...
11:26<avu>being able to specify rules that apply to both ipv4 and ipv6 was already enough to get me on board
11:27<zoke>the map-feature is nice as well
11:27<zoke>nft add rule ip filter input ip protocol vmap { tcp : jump tcp-chain, udp : jump udp-chain, icmp : jump icmp-chain }
11:29<zoke>nftables replaces iptables, ip6tables, ebtables and arptables
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12:01<GyrosGeier>hmm
12:05<GyrosGeier>how do I add multiple IPv4 addresses to an interface in /etc/network/interfaces?
12:06<twb>post-up ip address add dead:beef:babe/32 dev $IFACE brd +
12:06<twb>Possibly there's a shorthand; I don't remember
12:06<GyrosGeier>interestingly, multiple "iface ... inet6 static" stanzas work, but for v4 that doesn't
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12:06<GyrosGeier>hm
12:07<GyrosGeier>that's probably the best option then
12:07<GyrosGeier>thanks
12:08<somiaj>note if you have multiple post-up lines, the interface will fail if a single one of the commands you enter fail. Sometimes for safety appending '|| true' will ensure the interface comes up even if a post-up command fails
12:08<GyrosGeier>mh
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12:21<scorpion2185[m]>Can I use mate panel/s on OPenbox?
12:23<petn-randall>scorpion2185[m]: I'll allow it.
12:24<scorpion2185[m]>do they work so?
12:26<scorpion2185[m]>I will try...
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12:30<somiaj>You'll probably have better luck using a panel that is meant to be more DE independent. You can always try, but unsure how independent mate's panels are if you aren't running mate.
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12:39<azg256>scorpion2185[m]: You can use tint2 panel. It is more lightweight alternative
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12:41<scorpion2185[m]>I was looking for appindicator, so I found `ayatana-indicator-application`. `ayatana-indicator-datetime` wanted to install mate-panel
12:41<scorpion2185[m]>tint2 is user-friendly as lxpanel
12:41<somiaj>why do you need appindicator? My guess is to satisfy some dependency?
12:41<somiaj>note appindicator is not related to any pannel
12:42<somiaj>Also this is now an XY problem, please ask about your actual issue, you'll get much better support.
12:42<scorpion2185[m]>No need, it seems nice to have also appindicator.
12:43<somiaj>also the two packages you mentioned are not appindicator and not related to appindicator (which is a specific library that is not in bullseye)
12:43<scorpion2185[m]>ah didn't know that
12:43<somiaj>hence why you should ask your actual question. What is it you are really trying to do?
12:43<scorpion2185[m]>is mate-panel ok for other DEs?
12:44<scorpion2185[m]>is there some "appindicator" for debian? to display for example a bash script
12:44<somiaj>In general DEs panels are tied to features in the DE, so running their panel in another DE or window manager will have mixed results and at best it will run and some features won't work, at worse it will just cause problems
12:45<scorpion2185[m]>https://github.com/fossfreedom/indicator-sysmonitor
12:45<scorpion2185[m]>is "indicator-sysmonitor" the name so?
12:46<free2>I put a list of panels here WinFBE https://github.com/PaulSquires/WinFBEM
12:46<free2>FBIDE: https://fbide.freebasic.net/M
12:46<free2>https://transfer.notkiska.pw/cBuZN/1
12:46<somiaj>it seems that software requires gir1.2-apindicator3-0.1 which is not in bullseye
12:46<free2>The third link
12:47*Sqrt{Not} prefers to display bash scripts with less or vim
12:47<somiaj>appindicator was removed from bullseye due to it is no longer supported upstream, though some systray applications still depend on it.
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12:48<somiaj>free2: stop posting random stuff, espically things that require users to download stuff to their system.
12:48<free2>alright, sorry
12:48<scorpion2185[m]>can't someone maintain it?
12:49<bremner>scorpion2185[m]: sure. you could.
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12:49<bremner>otherwise, there is probably a reason for these things, that you could read up on
12:49<bremner>projects die.
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12:50<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: No software in debian uses it, it has been depercated and replaced by other librarys. I don't think debian would accept a library not used by debian just to support some third party stuff that won't update to new libraries.
12:50<somiaj>https://tracker.debian.org/news/1257945/removed-0492-8-from-unstable/
12:50<somiaj>"RoQA; deprecated, no longer used"
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12:51<somiaj>Note the alternative is libayatana-appindicator, but software that depends on that old library will require you manually install the old lib
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12:54<scorpion2185[m]>The site says that works on LDXE but I can't see it on /etc/xdg/autostart/ayatana-indicator-application.desktop
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12:54<scorpion2185[m]>So that is the alternative, good. datime applet wanted to install mate-panel
12:56<scorpion2185[m]>It also need ALL, mate-desktop
12:56<scorpion2185[m]>thank gtg now
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13:05<spawacz>Unbelievable... the only thing i had to activate was DEFAULT_FORWARD_POLICY="ACCEPT" in ufw config
13:05<spawacz>and it all works, including nat, port forwarding etc................
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13:50<rnpalmer>My KDE desktop wallpaper changed from Homeworld (Debian default) to Shell (upstream default??) without me doing anything
13:50<rnpalmer>Is this expected, or suspicious?
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13:50<rnpalmer>The dpkg/apt logs say no updates since the 4th
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13:51<taha>How can I remove the `sudo` package from debian? apt remove sudo does not work and outputs some errors
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13:52<rnpalmer>taha: what errors? and at a guess, you probably shouldn't
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13:53<taha>rnpalmer: I want to replace sudo with doas. I have already installed doas but now that I have doas, I want to remove sudo.
13:53<scorpion2185[m]>is ayatama good for lxpanel?
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13:55<rnpalmer>c10l8: is smething wrong? other-me didn't intend to leave either
13:55<somiaj>taha: what do you get when you try to remove sudo? Lets see the output of 'apt remove sudo'
13:56<taha>I found out why I couldn't remove sudo. I needed to set a root password. After setting it, I was able to remove it.
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13:58<taha>Now that I removed sudo, I did notice that the system apps could still elevate their privileges by entering the user password. Are they using `doas` or do they have their own method of elevating their access?
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14:00<scorpion2185[m]>is lomiri-app-launch DE independent?
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14:05<rnpalmer>scorpion2185: no immediately obvious reason it wouldn't be - have you tried?
14:05<Sqrt{Not}>taha, some programs use the Policy Kit framework to elevate privileges
14:05<Sqrt{Not}>%polkit
14:05<dselect>PolicyKit or polkit is a Gnome-inspired permission control framework, implemented in javascript and/or [XXX]XML Its configuration files will be found in many more directories than described in any single documentation. Start with man 8 polkit
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14:06<rnpalmer>and if it isn't, the lack of a dependency on one is probably a bug
14:06<scorpion2185[m]>rnpalmer: no
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14:07<scorpion2185[m]>trying only 2 deps
14:09<scorpion2185[m]>what only libraries, how am I supposed to use it?
14:10<taha>:Sqrt{Not} oh that's very good to know! Thanks.
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14:14<scorpion2185[m]>doesn anyone use it?
14:14<scorpion2185[m]>*does
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14:15<rnpalmer>not me, and popcon says not many
14:15<rnpalmer>https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=lomiri-app-launch
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14:21<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, I'd like to share this concern to debian warriors around here: https://paste.debian.net/1223615/
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14:22<r4fkramer>My main issue is no longer looking for support to try to keep the Apache service up, not anymore....
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14:23<petn-randall>r4fkramer: Didn't we discuss this earlier? Have you actually checked why it fails?
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14:24<rnpalmer>if you don't actually want to run a Web server I'd guess just remove it, but I don't actually know
14:24<somiaj>r4fkramer: what is the output of 'ls -ld /var/log/apache2'?
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14:25<somiaj>This was your issue last time, for some reason the apache2 log directory was removed from your system which will cause apache to fail
14:25<r4fkramer>petn-randall, as I noted in the question, I just want to get this question answered, just this.
14:25<r4fkramer>I no longer want to work hard on trying to solve this problem.
14:26<bremner>r4fkramer: file a bug is good for situations like that
14:26<imMute>r4fkramer: did you run "sudo systemctl enable apache2.service" so that it starts automatically at boot?
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14:27<r4fkramer>somiaj, Do you agree that even you are having big doubts about why this happens on my OS ? If for You this doubt has become big, imagine then in my case. I read a tutorial yesterday about the Apache service on Debian and CentOS, with no solution. Soon I'll show you the link to this tutorial.
14:27<somiaj>r4fkramer: again what is the output of 'ls -ld /var/log/apache2'
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14:28<r4fkramer>Yes imMute, I've done it several times, not only one or two times - always without solution at the 2nd boot - service becomes failed again....
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14:28<r4fkramer>just one moment, somiaj, and thank you for attention )
14:29<imMute>on the other hand, if this really is a laptop and you don't need apache installed, just remove it.
14:29<r4fkramer>ls: cannot access '/var/log/apache2': No such file or directory - I tried this command several times in different occasions using other commands to reactivate apache service, somiaj.
14:29<spawacz>ls
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14:30<somiaj>r4fkramer: as I have pointed out multiple times, that is your problem. For some reason your system is not able to create the log directory (or is deleting it). I think it is something with your setup/process.
14:30<r4fkramer>Yes, imMute, better acting like that. My only doubt is: is it happening (apache service being failed all the time) because I'm using debian with web server option activated during installation, despite the fact I'm not using it as web server ?
14:30<somiaj>r4fkramer: if you 'mkdir /var/log/apache2 && chmod 640 /var/log/apache2 && chown root.adm /var/log/apache2' -- it should work again
14:31<imMute>r4fkramer: if you don't need the webserver, then uncheck that box in the installer. or uninstall it after the fact if you don't want to reinstall again
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14:32<r4fkramer>using mkdir /var/log/apache2 I've done tons of times. Used other permissions, but don't remember about 640 - in fact, recently I haven't using it (not 640, but 755 I've been using)
14:33<somiaj>so if you make this directory, and it starts then this directory vanishes, something on your system is deleting it
14:33<r4fkramer>Fine bremner, it's a way to help developers about this probable bug
14:33*sney wonders if /var is on a tmpfs or something equally ludicrious
14:33<somiaj>sney: didn't think of that, but that could explain it
14:33<somiaj>r4fkramer: can you paste the output of 'mount' at paste.debian.net
14:33<r4fkramer>yes somiaj, and this issue is old - continue deleting it -
14:33<somiaj>though maybe follow imMute advice and just remove apache2 if you aren't using it
14:34<petn-randall>r4fkramer: Can you share the output of `mount`?
14:35<r4fkramer>somiaj and petn-randall, I can do this more to clarify for you about the problem, but making it clear that I don't want to bother you any more with this problem of broken apache2 service, ok? Just one moment, please.
14:35<r4fkramer>https://paste.debian.net/1223617/
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14:37<r4fkramer>imMute, I've applied the suggestion you gave me, really thank you :)
14:37<r4fkramer>imMute, done here: Executing: /lib/systemd/systemd-sysv-install enable apache2
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14:38<somiaj>well I personally suggest tracking down why this log directory is being deleted on your setups. This is very non-standard and I suspect has something to do with your particular setups
14:38<petn-randall>r4fkramer: What is the output of `ls -ld /var /var/log /var/log/apache2`?
14:39<petn-randall>r4fkramer: I agree with somiaj, something is very broken with your setup.
14:40<r4fkramer>petn-randall, here you are: https://paste.debian.net/1223618/
14:40<r4fkramer>petn-randall, I agree, but it is quite weird when you realize this apache service failing, specially in a fresh install, like it was the last installations here.
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14:41<r4fkramer>You finish one debian bullseye installation - installation procedure was fine from the beginning to the end - but after the 2nd boot, apache2 always failing.
14:41<r4fkramer>So it has happened without any of my intervention
14:42<r4fkramer>That's all I gave up this question. So, I just have to remove apache2, Ok ?
14:42<imMute>r4fkramer: do you need a webserver?
14:42<r4fkramer>apt remove apache2 ?
14:42<somiaj>This seems indvidual to how you install things if it happens on multiple systems.
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14:42<r4fkramer>No imMute
14:43<imMute>r4fkramer: then run 'sudo apt purge apache2' and be done with it.
14:43<petn-randall>r4fkramer: Check how your provision the machine, check the tools you use, any cron jobs you've added. /var/log/apache2/ is shipped in the package, and should be there.
14:43<somiaj>unfourntally if we cannot help track down the underlyaing issue there is little chance of fixing it unless someone else can reproduce it (and apache2 isntalls just fine on my systmes)
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14:44<r4fkramer>Yes, somiaj, but the only plausible hypothesis I can keep in mind is that I set the web server option during the installation process. But I don't configure web server on post installation.
14:45<r4fkramer>Apart from this hypothesis, it will probably take 100 centuries to try to solve the problem, and I don't want to spend all this time without assurance that the effort will pay off.
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14:45<petn-randall>r4fkramer: I am 100% sure the issue is on your side.
14:45<imMute>r4fkramer: what did you use to install? a CD .iso perhaps? if so, which one?
14:46<r4fkramer>Sure petn-randall, agree. But the question is: why all your efforts haven't fixed this issue ?
14:46<somiaj>and the fact that even after you 'fix' the issue by creating the log directory it happens again....you have something on your side running amuck
14:46<somiaj>well we have fixed it, but then something breaks it again
14:46<r4fkramer>imMute, I download non-free ISO, format a usb stick and copy iso to it using dd command
14:47<imMute>r4fkramer: can you link exactly which ISO you used? I'm going to try to replicate the problem here.
14:47<r4fkramer>Fine, imMute, just one moment, please.
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14:48<r4fkramer>Please, imMute, here you are: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/
14:49<r4fkramer>But yesterday, I used the stable and official ISO: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
14:49<r4fkramer>Surely I will continue using debian, this marriage is eternal, lol
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14:55<r4fkramer>Please imMute, I will have to fix some duties - I will be back about one hour or a bit more. Thank you very much for attention and Great Support ! Thank you for attention and Great Support, petn-randall, somiaj, bremner, rnpalmer !
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14:58<butilka123>Hi, can I make a partition bigger without losing data or deleting the partation?
14:59<sney>sure, depends on the filesystem, but most support growing without any issues
14:59<sney>if this is your system partition make sure to do it from a live environment rather than your running system
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15:01<rnpalmer>has anyone else's KDE wallpaper changed without them doing anything?
15:01<sney>it tends to change in testing as new plasma versions get uploaded
15:02<sney>sid/testing that is
15:02<rnpalmer>mine did, changing it back worked but is it suspicious (security-wise) that it changedsney: this is stable
15:02<sney>odd
15:02<rnpalmer>apt/dpkg logs say no updates for 11 days
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15:02<test>hi there
15:02<Sqrt{Not}>howdy
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15:03<rnpalmer>it was from Debian default to the purple/blue one I guess is upstream default?
15:03<test>is there any ircnet ssl working server ?
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15:03<butilka123>sney: we have a VM and cant afford to lose any data. Its a live system but the partition we want to make bigger is on a extra disk. Can you give me some more details on how to perform it please?
15:04<sney>test: this is OFTC, we don't know anything about ircnet, check their website
15:04<rnpalmer>test: https://webchat.oftc.net works with HTTPS Everywhere
15:04<rnpalmer>otest: or do you mean something else
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15:04<test>rnpalmer: hmm yeah
15:05<sney>rnpalmer: maybe there was some race condition with loading the debian png so it fell back to the default? but afaik they should both be in /usr/share. weird
15:05<rnpalmer>sney: I'll check the log
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15:06<sney>butilka123: I believe gparted can automate all of the steps, but roughly - edit the partition, making sure the beginning sector of the partition does *not* change, only expand from the end outwards; then write the partition table and use the filesystem's expand tool to fill the partition. for ext2/3/4, this is resize2fs, it has a pretty comprehensive man page.
15:07<nr0q_radio>the instructions for XFS are very similar and work just as well, I've expanded partitions for my VMs a few times
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15:09<butilka123>sney: ok ty
15:09<sney>np
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15:10<butilka123>also is someone familiar with mdadm? If i restart a lot of disks in the raid are just gone
15:11<rnpalmer>sney: nothing obvious in syslog, and no name matches in either syslog or any normal-user-readable /var/log/*
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15:11<sney>rnpalmer: weird. I'd ask kde upstream if there's something that can do this, I think they have channels on libera
15:11<rnpalmer>(searching for either "homeworld" or ".png")
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15:24<rnpalmer>sney: upstream pointed me to the size: KDE thinks my screen is 1366x768, which Debian wallpaper doesn't come in
15:25<sney>and kde settings will just override it based on that? whatever happened to scale to fit
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15:30<rnpalmer>also, given that this is a laptop and hasn't been connected to any external screens recently, I don't know why the screen size would change
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15:32<sney>this machine I'm on also has that native screen size, though my wallpaper isn't the default debian one, I just checked and the file resolution is 1920x1200 and it never changed when I was still on bullseye
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15:34<rnpalmer>sney: this is the first time mine did it
15:34<rnpalmer>and it does let me change it back
15:35<sney>well, keep an eye on it and see if it happens again, I guess
15:35<somiaj>blame it on the gnomes
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15:36<rnpalmer>somiaj: this is KDE
15:37<somiaj>not gnome, the gnomes...anyways, just joking. HOpefully all is well now
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15:38<rnpalmer>will try rebooting and see if it happens again
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15:41<scorpion2185[m]>does MIT license allow to fork with GPL2-3?
15:41<mason>butilka123: partprobe, mdadm --detail --scan, etc
15:43<jkc_>scorpion2185[m]: No. You can't relicense someone else's code without their consent.
15:43<nr0q_radio>as long as it's a permissive license (which MIT is) why would you want to?
15:43<jkc_>You can fork it and add your own code, and you can license your portions under the GPL.
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15:43<butilka123>mason: i followed this guide with 5 raid devices https://wiki.debian.org/SoftwareRAID
15:44<butilka123>idk why i only have to after restart
15:44<butilka123>also the automatic mounting is failing for some reason
15:44<mason>butilka123: That looks like a useful guide. Good stuff.
15:44<scorpion2185[m]>MIT is fine for main section, isn't it?
15:45<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: We have no idea what you're actually referring to, but what I said stands in all cases. You cannot relicense someone else's code. You can license your particular contributions under a difference license, as long as that license is compatible with the original work.
15:45<sney>!dfsg
15:45<dpkg>DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses
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15:45<imMute>somiaj: if that r4fkramer guy comes back and I'm not here - I just installed using that first ISO he linked. I chose all the defaults except I turned on "web server" in the tasksel page (should note that he had to check that because it's unchecked by default - so why would he do that if he didn't need a web server??) and apache started just fine on the first boot.
15:45<sney>lots of software in debian main is licensed with MIT
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15:45<mason>butilka123: So, verify that your mdadm.conf has the right stuff, and update-initramfs to make sure it gets into your initramfs.
15:46<mason>butilka123: lsinitramfs /boot/initrd.img-5.10.0-9-amd64 | grep mdadm
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15:46<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: Okay, I understand what you meant. As sney said, lots of stuff in main falls under an MIT license, or other permissive license. Apache comes to mind.
15:47<imMute>somiaj: and, as expected, it's also running after a reboot.
15:47<scorpion2185[m]>>For the Pippim website I'm using the MIT license. You can read it at https://pippim.github.io
15:47<scorpion2185[m]>I can't see the license.
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15:48<scorpion2185[m]>I can't see.. is not part of the quote. IF I ask the author can I use GPL 2-3 instead?
15:48<jkc>Why would you even do that?
15:48<sney>imMute: r4fkramer is a bit of a repeat offender for creating weird problems for himself, he is probably cargo culting something insane and forgetting to mention it every time
15:48<imMute>sney: oh, absolutely. I'm just showing that I have proof of that - the default install works (which we all knew already)
15:48<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: And its right here: https://github.com/pippim/pippim.github.io
15:49<scorpion2185[m]>jkc: Isn't GPL the best for free sotfware?
15:49<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: No.
15:49<sney>there was that time recently where he tried to run a full gui installation on an 8GB disk and came running when he ran out of space... I don't answer his questions anymore lol
15:49<nr0q_radio>it's one of several but each has it's own pros and cons for specific use cases
15:49<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: The author decided on that license for their own reasons. Why would he relicense it just for you?
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15:50<scorpion2185[m]>because it's a fork
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15:50<nr0q_radio>if you forked any of my code, I'd expect you to maintain the same license I assigned to the original code
15:51<nr0q_radio>what you do with your modifications I wouldn't care as long as it's a proper FOSS license
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15:51<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: So? You get the same rights to it that everyone else does. That's what a license does. But no, you can't change the license on someone else's code, and I, as a developer, would be irritated if someone asked me to relicense my code - which I couldn't even do if someone else contributed under the original license - just because they like license X better.
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15:51<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: It's MIT licensed. That's what it is. Get over it.
15:53<scorpion2185[m]>ok but if I make a fork and I ask can i change my fork license right?
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15:54<nr0q_radio>also if you use bits of code from more then one other project, you have to include each project's original license with your project, which can get to be a bit of work, so using the same license helps with that
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15:54<jkc>Why would you do that? What do you want out of the GPL that you don't get out of the MIT license?
15:54<nr0q_radio>scorpian2185[m0 no
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15:54<r4fkramer>Hi all, back here.
15:54<nr0q_radio>what you can do is fork a project, assign GPL to your changes but you still have to include the MIT license for the original code
15:54<scorpion2185[m]>just to know if it is possible, I still have to check GPL2-3 one is for user other for devs
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15:55<scorpion2185[m]>nr0q_radio: no? jkc told me that If I ask is fine
15:55<somiaj>imMute: Yea, it will remain a mystery what they are actually doing to cause this strange issue.
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15:55<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: It is not possible. Your question was answered.
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15:55<r4fkramer>somiaj, are you talking to imMute about apache2 issue ?
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15:55<imMute>r4fkramer: I just installed using that first ISO he linked. I chose all the defaults except I turned on "web server" in the tasksel page (should note that he had to check that because it's unchecked by default - so why would he do that if he didn't need a web server??) and apache started just fine on the first boot.
15:56<imMute>r4fkramer: so it's definitely something that you're doing and not telling us about.
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15:56<r4fkramer>I have read these two documents about apache2; I've applied these procedures, but the issues regarding to apache2 remain the same: https://upcloud.com/community/tutorials/fix-common-problems-apache2/
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15:56<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: The author released it under the MIT license. That's what you have. End of story.
15:56<r4fkramer>https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-do-i-stop-apache-from-starting-on-linux/
15:57<imMute>r4fkramer: as I said, apache is not installed by default in the debian installer. *you* had to ask for it to be installed. but if you don't need or want a web server installed, why did *you* ask for it to be installed?
15:57<r4fkramer>inMute, I really don't know how to tell you, for I've performed the last debian installations exactly by the same way I've been doing several times during years.
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15:58<nr0q_radio>sudo apt-get remove apache2 should fix the problem for good ;)
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15:58<scorpion2185[m]><jkc_> "scorpion2185: No. You can't..." <- seeing this answer makes think that you can if you ask
15:58<imMute>r4fkramer: there's a page in the installer where it asks you what software you want installed. it's a pretty short list. one of the options is "web server". it it *not* selected by default. so *you* had to manually check it. stop doing that unless you actually need a web server.
15:58<r4fkramer>imMute, I just installed to study purposes, despite the fact I don't use a web server around here.
15:59<scorpion2185[m]>but I will use MIT I don't care
15:59<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: Stop acting entitled, please. See the previous. The author licensed it under MIT. Leave it alone.
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15:59<butilka123>mason: i think i founf my problem 2 of my hdd cant be formatted bcs theyre in a extention card
15:59<r4fkramer>imMute, but I said you i selected web server, I really done this and told you in previous comments. I even asked if that could be the probable cause of this issue I am experiecing now with apache
16:00<jim>seen in an apt update output: E: The repository 'http://security.debian.org bullseye/updates Release' does not have a Release file.
16:00<scorpion2185[m]>I put GPL3 before it made that page and he said that was fine but i will glady change it to MIT
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16:00<sney>jim: bullseye security changed names, see here:
16:00<sney>!bullseye-security
16:00<dpkg>The repository name for <security> updates has changed between buster and bullseye. Now it is: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main". You should also have a line for <stable-updates>. See <sources.list> <bullseye/updates>. Note that you may need to adjust the Default-Release and pinning settings to match this change.
16:00<somiaj>scorpion2185[m]: the license says, "The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software." -- this includes forks
16:00<imMute>r4fkramer: it's not the reason you're having problems, but it certainly doesn't help to install it when you don't need it.
16:01<r4fkramer>Fine imMute, let me see if I understood you: you installed debian again, but you haven't selected 'web server' option, right ?
16:01<jim>sney, ok, thanks again
16:01<r4fkramer>hum, that's what I imagined, so that's not the cause of the problem...
16:02<r4fkramer>In other analysis, I had been informed about job 992 that should cause these problems.
16:02<r4fkramer>I have tried to get any specific information about this job, but couldn't find it.
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16:04<jim>sney, so it's in the main package archive rather than being in a separate domain?
16:04<imMute>r4fkramer: I *did* select "web server" and apache started on boot just fine. in other words, I was *not* able to replicate your problem.
16:04<somiaj>jim: deb.debian.org is a CDN, and security as moved to using that
16:04<imMute>r4fkramer: "jobs" are a systemd thing.
16:04<r4fkramer>imMute, really thank you very much for your effort and spending time trying to fix this issue and helping me on this :) Did you try both procedures: installing Debian with 'Web Server' option selected and other without this option selected ?
16:04<mason>butilka123: Glad you found the issue, and sorry it's painful.
16:04<sney>jim: security.debian.org will be phased out eventually, for now you can use either one. but the important part is the repo is called bullseye-security, not bullseye/updates.
16:05<imMute>r4fkramer: I did not try without selecting web server. I didn't try that because without selecting that, apache won't be installed and your problem won't happen
16:05<r4fkramer>imMute, weird, in other times I have been always selected this option and never had such problem
16:05<imMute>r4fkramer: yeah, I know. because it's *something else that you're doing* that is causing the actual problem
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16:06<r4fkramer>Fine, it's logical point of vies
16:06<r4fkramer>vies
16:06<imMute>r4fkramer: simply installing web server / apache works just fine.
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16:07<r4fkramer>imMute, in fact, I really would like to know why it's happening, specially in the last cases I didn't modify anything in the debian recently installed
16:07<imMute>r4fkramer: that's impossible. you're doing *something* and not telling us about it. we can't fix that thing if we don't know what it is.
16:07<butilka123>mason: i know the drive are working its just that stupid sata extention card which is doing problems
16:07<butilka123>drives*
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16:08<r4fkramer>Well, I will study about this afterwards, not now. At the moment, I gonna purge apache
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16:10<Sqrt{Not}>butilka123, with all your various disk changes, and odd problems, I really hope you have made a backup before going further.
16:10<r4fkramer>imMute I read your comment above. Note that I've been always explaining that the first boot is ok. I really had issues about apache failing on the 2nd boot and the other following boots.
16:11<butilka123>Sqrt{Not}: the disks are empty. I am trying to make a stupid raid with 5 extra hdd since a month
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16:11<mason>butilka123: It's worth taking a peek at ZFS as well if you're playing with storage.
16:11<Sqrt{Not}>butilka123, OK, good, at least no danger here, only frustration
16:11<butilka123>i have an M.2 Where My linux is i dont touch that
16:12<butilka123>mason: its a cheap ass card from amazon i think its the card
16:12<scorpion2185[m]>Copyright (c) 2021 pippim.com
16:12<scorpion2185[m]>Copyright (c) <me> for the fork?
16:13<nr0q_radio>yes
16:13<butilka123>the drives connected to the card; my bios doesnt recocnize them but my os does
16:13<jkc>scorpion2185[m]: You need to retain the original LICENSE file in its entirety.
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16:14<jkc>You can add to the copyrights, but the original copyright and license file must be retained.
16:14<imMute>r4fkramer: I also tried rebooting and apache started just fine on the 2nd boot.
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16:14<scorpion2185[m]>yes that plus the rest of the license
16:14<nr0q_radio>scorpian2185[m] here's an example of our copyright file with all the copyright / license's included https://gitlab.com/gridtracker.org/gridtracker/-/blob/master/debian/copyright
16:16<nr0q_radio>you can see where in our case we have a change in copyright holder and we are using code from other projects and we include their copyrights and licenses with full text of each
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16:17<butilka123>Im glad amazon takes that cheap crap back and gives my money back
16:17<scorpion2185[m]>yes thanks
16:19<r4fkramer>imMute, ok, but I really can' understand why it happens so frequently in my case, and always the same way. Well, let me purge apache and let's forget about it. Thank you very much for attention and Great Support !
16:19<nr0q_radio>the main thing you have to be sure of is that all code in your project/fork is attributed to the correct original projects with all of *their* original licenses and copyright notices
16:20<imMute>r4fkramer: as I said, it's something else that you're doing that we don't know about. that's the only plausible explanation
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16:22<r4fkramer>Just to confirm: I'm not lying, I wouldn't never do it with you, who are always providing me help and support continuously. imMute, I simply don't understand why it's happening with me. But as I said before, let's forget about it - I really don't need to use web server at present :)
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16:26<r4fkramer>Bye all ! Really thank you very much for Powerfull Support, imMute !
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16:36<carter>hi guys
16:36<sney>hi
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16:38<carter>I am new to debian, but my friend who knows a little about computer stuff is teaching me about IRC and has converted me over to the open source ethos
16:39<sney>cool, welcome
16:39<carter>he showed me this channnel. Thanks for welcoming me. I might come back with questions that I can not answer through a non-google search engine
16:40<sarnold>stick around for a bit, other people's discussions may be useful to learn from, too
16:40<petn-randall>carter: Welcome, feel free to ask, we'll point you to the right documentation if that's available.
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16:41<sarnold>and when you ask a question, be sure to stick around for a while -- not everyone is at their irc clients all the time :) so be sure to ask with enough detail that someone who shows up an hour later can provide a useful response
16:41<carter>ok. I might come back and lurk in the future. I just got a crash course in the idiosyncracies of linux and debian and my brain hurts
16:42<carter>my friend said that IRC is slow. He said that IRC needs new users. I guess that I'm a new user of IRC. And I think its pretty cool
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16:42<revolt>i have a question please
16:42<revolt>im facing an issue
16:43<revolt>with postfix and opendkim
16:43<revolt>warning: connect to Milter service local:/var/spool/postfix/opendkim/opendkim.sock: Permission denied
16:43<sarnold>carter: certainly irc isn't what it used to be, but I still like it :)
16:43<sarnold>revolt: first, check namei -l /var/spool/postfix/opendkim/opendkim.sock and make sure all the permissions allow your service to contact it
16:43<carter>I love how elegant IRC is compared to the cancerous bloat found in the clearnet
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16:44<sarnold>revolt: second, check dmesg output or /var/log/audit/audit.log output to see if an apparmor or selinux policy has denied this
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16:45<carter>bye guys. Thanks for being friendly
16:45<sney>np
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16:48<revolt>;DDDD
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16:51<g00se>Having a block on umask. I do (umask 0600 && touch delme) and expect stat delme to show perms of 0600. It doesn't. Why not?
16:53<nr0q_radio>if you want perms of 600 then you need to do 077 as your umask
16:53<imMute>g00se: umask is a *mask*, you get the opposite of what you set
16:54<nr0q_radio>here's a umask site that helps explain https://wintelguy.com/umask-calc.pl
16:54<g00se>Ah OK, of course
16:55<will0w>uh wouldn't that be "177" ?
16:56<nr0q_radio>depends on i your looking at files or directories, files are 666-umask, directories are 777-umask
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16:57<imMute>or rather, files start with 666 and directories start with 777 and then you remove the bits that are set in the umask. the result is the permissions of the file/directory
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17:09<butilka123_>is libera.chat irc offline?
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17:09<jkc>butilka123: No.
17:09<butilka123>hmm cant connect to it for some reason
17:10<butilka123>thy
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17:39<r4fkramer>Hi all, performed another debian bullseye installation, but I faced this issue, new for me (it never has happened before). Please, where am I going wrong ? https://paste.debian.net/1223639/
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17:47<Sqrt{Not}>r4fkramer, why don't you show us what was happenning with libdvd-pkg before this apt install hexchat ?
17:48<sarnold>I wouldn't be surprised if that terminal is long gone
17:48<sarnold>probably sudo dpkg --configure -a or sudo apt install -f will show something very similar
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17:49<r4fkramer>Hi Sqrt{Not}, I would love doing that. What exactly should I do ?
17:49<sarnold>I wonder what apt-get check is reporting
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17:51<r4fkramer>Hi sarnold, I used this command suggested by you, but issue remains the same....
17:52<Sqrt{Not}>r4fkramer, if sarnold's suggestions don't help you, then please try to remember whatever you were doing with libdvd-pkg earlier.
17:52<r4fkramer>Ok, Sqrt, I remember two steps....
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17:55<r4fkramer>Sqrt{Not} I was advertised to configure libdvd-pkg using 'dpkg-reconfigure libdvd-pkg' to lauch this process for the first time.
17:56<r4fkramer>I don't remember if I performed that or not....
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17:58<g00se>If I invoke aplay as root, it won't play. "ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1075:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave". Can I get it to play ball? sudo su $USER didn't work
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17:59<r4fkramer>yes, I performed this task sarnold and Sqrt{Not}
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17:59<r4fkramer>I had to enable automatic upgrade for libdvdcss2 also - something related to libdvd-pkg configuration
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18:02<r4fkramer>Sorry, that was my fault - I didn't performed 'dpkg-reconfigure libdvd-pkg' before, I forgot and thought I had done it. Sorry.
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18:07<r4fkramer>Fixed here and resintalled all packages. Thank you for Attention and Great Support :)
18:07<r4fkramer>Perform the same with hexchat now. Bye all !
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18:24<g00se> If I invoke aplay as root, it won't play. "ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1075:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave". Can I get it to play ball? sudo su $USER didn't work
18:25<sney>g00se: does sound work otherwise?
18:25<g00se>Yes it's fine. I just need a beep as root
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18:31<sney>it's possible for device sharing with alsa to be difficult if you're using other software like pulseaudio, why not use a tool like sox to play the beep instead?
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18:33<g00se>Right. Don't know that one
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18:35<g00se>I've got pulse and alsa. Will it play nice with them?
18:35<zoke>sudo su?! pick one
18:35<g00se>Hah. I really mean sudo -u user
18:36<sney>g00se: read 'apt show sox', it gives some details, it supports both and more
18:37<g00se>Right
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18:43<g00se>OK. Now i get the same, and an additional error with sox: "play FAIL sox: Sorry, there is no default audio device configured"
18:43<g00se>(Same error of course, but additional info)
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18:44<sney>right, so something is locking your sound device, does sox play the file as your regular user account?
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18:46<g00se>Yes
18:47<zoke>probably pulseaudio
18:48<sney>yeah, if pulseaudio is handling sound otherwise that's likely
18:48<sney>can't reproduce it here, of course :)
18:48<g00se>I could try to tell it which to use with $AUDIODEV. What will show which is being used?
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18:51<sney>probably something in pactl list or pactl info
18:53<g00se>Right
18:57<g00se>Simply cannot tell from all that what to set AUDIODEV to
18:59<sney>I mean, if you just need root to be able to play a beep some way, you can have your script be 'sudo -u youruser play /path/to/beep.wav' and be done with it
19:01<nr0q_radio>does speaker-test work?
19:01<nr0q_radio>I use that to generate a beep sometimes
19:02<g00se>sudo -u doesn't cut it either
19:03<g00se>sudo speaker-test: nope
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19:05<jmcnaught>Maybe switching from Debian default per-user session pulseaudio to a system-wide daemon would help? /usr/share/doc/pulseaudio/README.Debian says to see the comments in /etc/default/pulseaudio
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19:08<jmcnaught>Looks like /etc/default/pulseaudio is in /usr/share/doc/pulseaudio/examples/pulseaudio.default.example on bullseye.
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19:10<g00se>Thanks. I'll check that out
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19:23<zoke>g00se: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PulseAudio/Examples#Allowing_multiple_users_to_share_a_PulseAudio_daemon <- may be an option
19:24<Karlton>I solve my audio problems by removing pulseaudio
19:25<Karlton>recently learned that you have to remove libpulse to get apulse to work even if pulseaudio isn't running
19:26<sney>testing has moved to pipewire as a replacement
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19:28<Karlton>so does pipewire already have support for bluetooth?
19:28*g00se can't remember why he has pulse. I think it might be to do with pavucontrol once being an easy solution
19:28<g00se>(to something)
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19:29<sney>pulseaudio ships by default with desktop environment tasks in debian
19:29<sney>it normally works fine out of the box, though customization can get weird
19:29<Karlton>I can't think of a reason to have pulse unless it's for bluetooth
19:30<nr0q_radio>I use PulseAudio for transmitting audio between my desktop and a raspberry pi
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19:33<g00se>Heh. If you kill pulse it respawns
19:34<Karlton>systemd respawns it
19:34<zoke>"Potential benefits include lower CPU usage, better support for Bluetooth devices..." <- from https://wiki.debian.org/PipeWire
19:34<zoke>would say that's a yes on the bluetooth
19:36<Karlton>heh, you would think pulseaudio would be optimized for the lowest CPU usage by now
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19:39<zoke>Karlton: adding new features are more important then reducing footprint
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19:39<zoke>s/then/than/
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19:47<g00se>Weird. sox has now started working. Any idea how to get rid of the text output it gives? (Seems dangerous to search on "quiet" ;) )
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19:50<zoke>g00se: >/dev/null
19:51<g00se>Actually there is -q But i still seem to need 2>/dev/null/ I'd prefer a no-warn param
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19:52<g00se>-V0 by the looks
19:52<zoke>was just about to say that...
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19:53<g00se>Coolio
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19:54<zoke>now that's a name I havn't heard in a long time :p
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19:56<g00se>Heh
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20:08<g00se>Thanks for the help folks
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20:35<jcbjoe2021>i know the debian way is to only download from the repos from debian, but what if i needed like google chrome? how would i get it? i normally do site:debian.org <search string> what are some best practicies so i can find what im looking for?
20:35<sarnold>I think google publishes an apt repo for chrome
20:36<jcbjoe2021>i have main contrib and non free in sources.list
20:36<jcbjoe2021>ok so sarnold its better to go to the source?
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20:37<sarnold>jcbjoe2021: yes, if you want to run chrome, I think getting it directly from google is your best bet
20:37<jcbjoe2021>ok
20:37<sarnold>jcbjoe2021: if you don't want to let them run the maintainer scripts as unconfined root, you could use apt download to download the packages and unpack them and install them manually, but that's a pain and I'd be surprised if anyone does that
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20:39<ofto>why i receive this message on paste.debian.net: Could not add your entry to the paste database: do not spam
20:39<jcbjoe2021>sarnold: just want to make sure im getting my full potentinal out of my debian laptop before going to google. maybe i have to go to google for things
20:40<sarnold>ofto: probably something in it looked like an email address or a website link
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20:40<sarnold>jcbjoe2021: up to you, really :) is google chrome Your Browser Of Choice?
20:40<ofto>sarnold: but not and not should get my email
20:41<jcbjoe2021>sarnold: yea im just used to it, haven't really tried anything else. i use it cuase it sycns passwords and stuff. when wife uses my laptop she wants to login to her stuff
20:41<somiaj>!don't break debian
20:41<dpkg>i guess dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
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20:41<ofto>sarnold: i use the website https://paste.debian.net
20:41<somiaj>jcbjoe2021: ^^ there are safe ways to install third party software in debian. If one follows some basic principles. But for google-chrome, the google .debs are mostly static linked and safe and easy to install
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20:42<jcbjoe2021>ok thanks
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20:42<jcbjoe2021>gotta go hang some pictures lol brb
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20:43<somiaj>Note, you do agree to google's license and google-chrome is full of stuff sending your info to google, but if you trust goggle (are using their services anyways, they already have your data), just be aware of what you are doing (:
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20:52<FLHerne>jcbjoe2021: Firefox syncs with itself in the same way as Chrome, but of course not with Chrome
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20:53<FLHerne>Chromium is pretty much Chrome with the Google stuff stripped out
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20:55<FLHerne>but if you really need/want to sync with Chrome on other computers then sending all your data to Google is unavoidable and indeed the whole point
20:56<somiaj>I wouldn't use chromium in debian, unless you build it yourself and just use google-chrome for security reasons (if you want google's services)
20:56<somiaj>there is also ungoogled chormium you can build yourself as well, but building a browser is a pain
20:57<sarnold>step one: download and install half the world's developer tools
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20:57<somiaj>FLHerne: chromium still has a ton of google stuff in it and sends a lot to google by default. Debian tries to turn off most of that, but ungoogled chromium is probably better if one really wants chormium without sending google info
20:58<somiaj>step two, wish you had a better computer while you wait a day for it to build
20:58<sarnold>hehehe
21:00<sarnold>" Finished on 2021-10-30 (took 1 day, 1 hour, 35 minutes, 42.8 seconds) " https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+build/22353704
21:00<sarnold>that'll be a VM on a machine running multiple builds at once, but still. wow.
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21:02<sney>someone earlier this year with a shiny new ryzen system had it built in 8 hours I think?
21:03<jcbjoe2021>somiaj: whats a good alternarte browswer that can save passwords and stuff? i think im used to chrome cause it blocks popups and stuff
21:03<sney>that's a computer with a full time job.
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21:04<jcbjoe2021>dam! my temporary crown fell out of my mouth lol, time to go back to the dentist
21:04<jcbjoe2021>sorry offtopic
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21:09<jcbjoe2021>when i want to install something or can't find it anywhere i will just google "debian" <Search term" to make sure i know what i'm doing
21:11<sney>and make sure you check the date on your results, google will sometimes have old information sorted first. anything more than a couple years old may have changed
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21:29<somiaj>jcbjoe2021: browsers are a nightmare, you need one, choose the one you like. If all your data is already stored with google and you use google apps, there is really no much more harm to just install google-chrome. They do have a privacy policy, but use your data
21:30<somiaj>So mostly it is about which company you are okay with sharing your data with. Basically you can choose google chrome or mozilla firefox, and depending on which sites you use (if you use google anyways) it isn't like they don't have your data if you choose not to use chrome
21:30<somiaj>There are alternatives such as tor, various firefox forks, and ungoogled chormium, and webkit based browsers. These often have less security support and take a bit more work to build yourself/install
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21:34<Karlton>"privacy policy" should be renamed to 'spying policy'
21:35<Karlton>it's always a list of points of how they collect data, rather than how they don't
21:35<somiaj>yea, I don't agree with it, but there is a lot of work to not share your data while using a browser.
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21:54<will0w>ublock origin
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22:15<jcbjoe2021>thanks somiaj
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23:23<k-man>when i click a link in evince, should it actually open in a web browser? (for me it's not doing anything)
23:23<k-man>an https link in a pdf that is
23:24<somiaj>It doesn't here, but it can if you have things configured correctly (running just a wm here I don't have it configured right)
23:24<k-man>somiaj: thanks.
23:24<k-man>any pointers on making it work?
23:24<somiaj>k-man: try this, 'xdg-open https://somepage' in a console? does that work?
23:25<k-man>yes works
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23:25<k-man>all the questions about this that google provides are like 10yo
23:25<somiaj>If you open a pdf with evince from a shell, do you get any output
23:25<k-man>https://superuser.com/questions/152202/how-to-set-default-browser-for-pdf-reader-evince-on-linux/1332247
23:25<k-man>ah good question
23:26<somiaj>I think evince uses xdg-open for links, so wonder what is going on
23:26<k-man>evince just drops to bg when i launch from the cli
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23:27<somiaj>I've just always been lazy and never got this to work, and just right click link -> copy -> paste in browser
23:27<somiaj>k-man: close all instances of evince, and also evince foo.pdf to open a pdf with a link
23:27<k-man>same, that works for me too
23:27<somiaj>I get a permission denied here when it tries to run my browser. I wonder if something is locking it down
23:28<somiaj>so I see it is trying to run my correct browser, but is failing, time to check to see if maybe apparmor is getting in the way
23:28<k-man>ah, same here
23:28<k-man>yes apparmor must be the issue
23:29<k-man>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=923345
23:29<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/923345 in evince (open): «evince cannot start default browser due to AppArmor»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-02-26; last modified: 2019-02-26.
23:29<somiaj>yea, that looks like that is the case, "apparmor="DENIED" operation="exec" profile="/usr/bin/evince" name="$HOME/bin/firefox-esr-91/firefox"
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23:30<somiaj>hmm, wish someone would have documend a way to get it to work in the bug report or did I not read close enough
23:30<k-man>is that a log or is that an instruction to apparmor to deny it?
23:31<k-man>somiaj: i didn't see an answer there either
23:31<somiaj>that is the log on my system saying that it is apparmor, which is most likely what is going on
23:31<somiaj>k-man: what browser are y ou using? oen from debian or a cusotom install of firefox like me?
23:32<k-man>custome install of ff like you
23:33<somiaj>yea, that seems to be the bug, seems to deny custom browsers but not the firefox-esr from debian
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23:33<k-man>ah
23:33<somiaj>I don't know apparmor enough to see how to modify /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.evince
23:34<somiaj>I just have not carred tnough to fix this (I use links so rarely in evince, since most often I'm viewing .pdf in my browers if I care about links)
23:34<somiaj>evince is just for my custom .tex documents, but none of those have links
23:35<k-man>same - but now i have something for my work that will require me to click on links A LOT
23:35<k-man>so it would be nice if i can fix this
23:36<somiaj>well you know the issue, maybe someone will chip in who knows apprmor enough to white list your custom browser to run via evince
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23:36<somiaj>note, you can just turn off apparmor to complain with evince, but realize .pdf's can cause havok hence why I think they provide such a restricve rule set for default
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23:38<k-man>i see
23:38<k-man>it would be nice if I could trust the document
23:39<somiaj>well in this case I think it is about trusting the browser, since that is what handels the links, so if you send it a compermised link you will be okay
23:41<k-man>ok
23:41<k-man>ok, thanks for the pointes
23:41<k-man>pointers. I have to run now
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23:52<somiaj>k-man: apt install apparmor-utils, then aa-complain /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.evince to disable apparmor, and aa-enforce to enforce it again. This will at least get it working for you. Ideally you figure how to modify /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.bin.evince to allow running your custom browser. I didn't find the syntax fast enough and decided to stop looking
23:52<k-man>great, thanks for the tip somiaj
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 16 00:00:47 2021