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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-17

---Logopened Fri Dec 17 00:00:16 2021
---Daychanged Fri Dec 17 2021
00:00<wifid>jmcnaught: indeed
00:00-!-shazzr [~shazzr@91.149.17.94] has joined #debian
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00:00<wifid>jmcnaught: btw can it be told to download from debian 11, while I am on debian 10?
00:01<awal1>somiaj, maybe i did yeah but i configured my sid like last 2/3 years ago as i want it. since then , i think i never changed anything. so i confess i forgot a lot of stuff
00:01<somiaj>wifid: just like before, only if bullseye is in your sources.list
00:02<somiaj>this just downlaods to cwd instead of /var/cache/apt/archives
00:03<awal1>i mean sine 2/3 years i haven't did changes in my system. since i'm just an end user, i forgot a lost of stuff
00:04<awal1>i almost haven't
00:04<wifid>hmm
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00:05<wifid>somiaj: using that method with apt.sources bullseye and apt install --download-only I obtained firmware-realtek_20210315-3_all.deb , but while searching online in packages.debian etc I obtained firmware-realtek_20210818-1_all.deb
00:05<wifid>I guess I prefer the 20210818 one... or is too new
00:05<wifid>.package firmware-realtek
00:05<wifid>!package firmware-realtek
00:06<somiaj>,v firmware-realtek
00:06<judd>Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20210315-3~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20210315-3; bookworm/non-free: 20210818-1; sid/non-free: 20210818-1
00:07<somiaj>You most likely don't need the newer one, I'd grab the one that goes with bullseye and not the bookworm/sid version
00:07<wifid>ok lets try. Nice tho that bookwork's firmware .bin worked on bullseye kernel
00:09<wifid>the net install CD has built int "ar" to unpack .deb files if needed, right?
00:13<somiaj>newer firwmare packages just often contain newer firmware files, and it is okay to have extra files at the kernel may not know or look for.
00:13<somiaj>Yes, .deb files are an 'ar' archive, though don't know if ar is installed or dpkg just uses a library to use ar to unpack it
00:14<somiaj>but often you don't want to just unpack the ar part, since that gives you both another tar and a contorl file. If you want to unpack a deb file, dpkg -x is prefered
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00:35<heise>guten Morgen zusammen
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00:37<avu>!de
00:37<dpkg>Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.libera.chat oder irc.belwue.de) - debian-user-german@lists.debian.org
00:38<wifid>!jp
00:38<dpkg>it has been said that jp is 日本語話者: irc.debian.or.jp の #debianjp または debian-japanese@lists.debian.org
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00:38<wifid>debesu
00:39<wifid>after adding new firmware how to tell debian to try to rediscover networking hardware, insmod or whatever?
00:40<wifid>how to permanently configure wifi system wide, so that it is enabled by system even if the graphical user who would configure it is logged out etc?
00:40<wifid>and where are such settings stored? including wifi pass/wifi ID
00:40<sney>the most straightforward way to reload the driver with firmware is to reboot.
00:41<sney>for system-wide wifi, there's a wiki link, 1 sec
00:41<sney>https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Using_ifupdown
00:41<wifid>hm I think it memorised the pass from installation processssss
00:41<wifid>how to see current wifi, including wifi ID tht is now being used? in console
00:41<sney>yes that is likely
00:41<wifid>ah ok, iwconfig
00:41<sney>in /etc/network/interfaces
00:42<sney>iwconfig is deprecated and may not be installed, but the settings are in that file, anyway
00:42<wifid>what replaces iwconfig, to look into actuall current settings right now in kernel, not just the config file?
00:43<somiaj>I use wpa_supplicant in roam mode via the interfaces file. There is in /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant on how to do this. You can then connect to other networks using wpa_cli or wpa_gui
00:43<somiaj>Note network manager will also connect to configured networks without requring the user login
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00:44<sney>'iw yourdevice link' will give similar output to iwconfig, see 'man iw' for the full available commands
00:44<wifid>how to test is my gfx card is working fine, including is it "fast" and all on current driver, also how to see driver in use?
00:44<sney>lspci -k will show your pci devices and their in-use drivers
00:44<wifid>any general benchmark/test to run on computer to confirm it works well, including is it working well on debian?
00:45<sney>if your system isn't complaining about firmware at boot, then your video card is using the kernel driver and that is usually enough. if you have a nvidia gpu there are some extra steps.
00:45-!-cocomac [~arjun@c-73-97-84-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
00:45<Jayha>hi, I'm trying to run docker-compose in a VS code devcontainer FROM mcr.microsoft.com/vscode/devcontainers/rust:0-bullseye, I added apt-get install docker-compose to the Dockerfile, and it's using version 1.25 of docker-compose... how do I tell apt-get to install 1.29?
00:47-!-wifid [~oftc-webi@37.120.211.93] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
00:48<Jayha>I know, I suck, I should be able to figure this out but my linux-fu is weak due to being an iOS dev for the last 12 years and using Mac. Now I'm learning Rust and back-end dev, so need to remember how the basics of linux work again
00:48<sney>the apt source you are using would need to have 1.29 available
00:49<sney>the latest in debian is 1.27.4, so you would probably need to use a 3rd party source. I'm sure the docker website has one available.
00:50<sney>you can do e.g. 'apt policy docker-compose' to see what I'm saying
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00:50<wifid>my friend for whom I'm setting up a debian computer, prefers Gnome, instead of using XFce4 like a normal person. What might be a solution to that situation
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00:50<somiaj>Install gnome
00:51<wifid>somiaj: no but then he is not using xfce
00:51<Jayha>I see - so those apt sources are part of the rust image rather than it looks up the latest version when it runs the `install`?
00:51<sney>let your friend use gnome. debian has all of these choices so that you can choose what you want to use. there are even some lunatics who use kde plasma, I hear. ;)
00:51<somiaj>So, sounds like it is their computer, the should be able to use the DE they like.
00:51<wifid>kde3 was clearly the best UI, besides xfce
00:51<somiaj>And us retro users still using fvwm.
00:52<wifid>gnome is most known for Sorry, something went wrong when installing and using debian on some hardware configurations (it required opengl or something?)
00:52<sney>Jayha: correct, since it says 'bullseye' in the name that would be debian 11, so it has debian 11 sources configured.
00:53<sney>Jayha: you'll have better docker support in #docker on libera (note right now you are on OFTC), #debian mostly supports interactive installations rather than those quick deploy containers
00:53<wifid>what was that quake3 like game in debian?
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00:55<wifid>openarena.
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00:57<Jayha>sney: ok, thanks - since I can't control what microsoft base the VS Code devcontainer images on, I guess I can't use apt to install it.... didn't think of this but I'm gonna try just using the curl method from docker site instead.
01:01<wifid>tests aplay /dev/urandom ctrl+z pushed to background instead killing it. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
01:01-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
01:01<wifid>debian should come with default benchmark/checks, incl a nice ding for soundcard
01:04<wifid>Steam works on deb?
01:05<sney>yep, it's in non-free
01:05<sney>!steam
01:05<dpkg>Steam is a proprietary content delivery and management application for PC software with Linux support. Packaged in <non-free>; amd64 users are required to enable <multiarch> and install the steam:i386 package. Users of the proprietary nvidia driver will also need nvidia-driver-libs:i386. http://wiki.debian.org/Steam
01:05*wifid so glad to not use nvidia
01:05<jm_>speaker-test -t wav -c 5 or whatever is there
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01:06<somiaj>worried about security and downloading firmware, but will install steam...though as mentioned, it is about what you trust.
01:06<r4fkramer>Hi all, please, I'd like to share my concern related to grub configuration here, to fix grub in bullseye: https://paste.debian.net/1223815/
01:06<wifid>somiaj: Steam can be separate user
01:06<r4fkramer>https://paste.debian.net/1223815/
01:06<wifid>and doesnt need root (afaik/I hope)
01:07<sney>steam doesn't run as root, though you will need root to install it (as with any apt operations)
01:07<jm_>r4fkramer: you need to install grub from debian to MBR if you want to replace it
01:07<wifid>any good virtualization solutions nowdays, that are good for performance? like ubuntu with steam inside debian
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01:08<sney>I wouldn't play steam games in a vm, steamplay already adds a lot of overhead
01:08<r4fkramer>FIne jm_, that's what I want - I just installed grub to MBR during Debian Installation. Please, how to proceed in this case I've got Debian already installed ?
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01:08<wifid>and overall, any good virtualizations?
01:08<sney>!virt-manager
01:08<dpkg>Virtual Machine Manager (virt-manager) is a desktop user interface for managing the linux Kernel Virtual Machine (KVM) as well as Xen VMs and LXC, with very similar functionality to <virtualbox>. https://wiki.debian.org/KVM https://virt-manager.org/ #virt on irc.oftc.net.
01:09<somiaj>running games in a vm can be a pain if you don't have a second gpu for gpu passthrough which takes a bit to setup
01:09<wifid>it handles things like "gpu passthrough"? how this works anyway, such a VM when active takes over my entire GFX and entire screen?
01:09<somiaj>afiak you need to pass it the full device, so it needs to be a secondary gpu
01:09<sney>KVM supports gpu passthrough. it's not really trivial to set up, but you can google 'kvm pci passthrough' for plenty of articles
01:09<jm_>r4fkramer: boot into it, run /usr/sbin/grub-install ...
01:10<sney>and yes as somiaj says, you can't use the gpu you pass through on the host
01:11<wifid>do any debian virtualziations expose some level of opengl acceleration to guest, but without passthrough stealing entire card for itself?
01:11<r4fkramer>jm_, not so clear... how to run a grub reinstall through /usr/sbin/grub-install ?
01:11<raven523>qemu has virtio-gpu and virgl
01:11<r4fkramer>Do I have to move to this directory and install grub from there ?
01:12<wifid>thx raven523
01:12<jm_>r4fkramer: well you only pass it a device name to install on, i.e. /dev/sda - commands like lsblk should help identify it
01:12<jmcnaught>virt-manager has virgl support too
01:12<r4fkramer>This primary partition where debian is installed is sda1
01:13<wifid>ok I guess this hw does work with debian. Time to remove the camera & mic then \o/
01:13<raven523>virt-manager is a frontend to libvirt, which is a frontend to qemu and other VMs
01:13<jm_>so probably «grub-install /dev/sda» is OK then
01:14<r4fkramer>Ok, but should I use 'sda' instead of 'sda1" ?
01:14<r4fkramer>The other OS is located in sda3
01:14<wifid>video driver vendor Mesa could this mean this is software rendering?
01:14<awal1>sda
01:14<jm_>yes. that way debian's grub will be used when the system boots
01:15<raven523>wifid: how did you find that?
01:15<wifid>raven523: in OpenArena game
01:15<r4fkramer>Fine jm_ and awal1, I'll do it. Thank you very much for attention and Great Support !:) God Bless You All (I hope 'God' exist...)
01:16<r4fkramer>Bye All ?
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01:16<raven523>I'm not sure how openarena reports things. It could just mean that it uses Mesa's libGL, but that does use hardware acceleration if it's available
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01:16<wifid>glxheads says GL_VENDOR Mesa/X.org
01:17<wifid>glxinfo says direct rendering Yes
01:17<sney>mesa is the opengl implementation used in linux, it is used regardless of hardware or software rendering
01:17<raven523>unless you're using the nvidia libGL or the amdgpu-pro libgl
01:18<wifid>lspci -k VGA .... Kernel modules: amdgpu
01:18<wifid>so it now uses the opensource amdgpu? or closed source amdgpu? or..?
01:18<sney>that is the open source amdgpu that is part of the linux kernel
01:18<sney>amdgpu-pro is *not* trivial to get working on debian, you would know if you were using it
01:18<raven523>the amdgpu kernel module is open source and is used by both mesa and amdgpu-pro
01:19<wifid>nice, surprised to see it working on new laptop. I guess it pays to buy older models, and not-nvidia
01:19<wifid>is opencl working here? how that's tested? just curious
01:20<somiaj>note firmware-amd-graphics may help with amdgpu
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01:23<wifid>god how to disable the Ads
01:23<somiaj>ads?
01:23<wifid>in firefox
01:24<sney>use a real irc client, not the browser one
01:24<sney>and install ublock origin
01:24<wifid>webext-ublock-origin-firefox?
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01:24<wifid>sney: when humanity invents a worthi replacement to irc (not matrix) then it will be the time to get such client. well plus 4 years for it to get into deb stable ;)
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01:25<wifid>*worthy
01:25<sney>asked and answered
01:25<sney>and yes you can use that webext package I think, or just install it from the firefox store. result same
01:25<wifid>sney: is firefox checking the downloads (signatures)?
01:25<r4fkramer>well jm_ unfortunately grub installation didn't work as expected - now entries for Rocky Linux are omitted
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01:26<r4fkramer>Anyway i will study a bit more on debian wiki - grub to fix this issue. Thank you
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01:27<sney>I am sure firefox has download verification for addons.
01:28<wifid>this is incredible there are humans who are not using adblocks on youtube and alike
01:29<wifid>perhaps debian should install that by default with firefox, don't see reason not to tbh
01:29<awal1>the web without an adblocker is a hell
01:29<sney>they did for a minute in the iceweasel era and there was an uproar, the decision was left for the user to pick which adblock and scriptblock etc addons they want
01:30<sney>on any other OS you get to install this stuff yourself, so here, in debian you do the same thing
01:30<sussudio>just going through a kernel changelog... - PCI: Mark some NVIDIA GPUs to avoid bus reset < maybe that will mean less people coming in here.
01:31<wifid>sney: personally I think ffox on first run should ask 2 things. install adblocks yes/no . leave on snippets/etc default screen, or empty start screen
01:31<sney>sure, email mozilla a suggestion
01:32<sney>debian isn't in the business of making big changes out of the box unless they're for DFSG stuff, so you wouldn't see a debian patch doing that most likely.
01:32<somiaj>Though the ad watchers is what pays for the content you want.
01:32<wifid>mozilla is not really trustworthy anyway; is debian now doing own thing, is that really iceweasel inside, or is that pure mozilla's ffox plus some minimal patches?
01:32<awal1>a few years ago gnome came with ffox and adblock-plus by default if i remember well
01:32<somiaj>afiak google chromium tried to do something like that, but not a full block, just blocked adds that didnt' conform to some set of ad standards
01:32<awal1>not sure now
01:32<sney>iceweasel was just firefox with a different logo, and yes debian's firefox package is just firefox. debian's firefox maintainer is a mozilla employee.
01:33<wifid>somiaj: now they simply say it, todays video is sponsored by mans balde shaving equipment, get 5% off and shave your balls with ease. also, oder them using nordvpn with this 5% cupoun
01:33<sney>there are good reasons to support a more free browser and I hope to see another one before I lose all of my hair, but debian won't lead that charge
01:33<somiaj>wifid: sponsored content and ads are different though.
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01:34<wifid>how to show my camera with mplayer/vlc or otherwise test it? like, before it being taped over
01:34<somiaj>icecat is kinda the continuation of iceweasel that one can install, though unsure how quickly it is updated with security issues. And ungoogled chromium now exists. Though think you have to build them yourself.
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01:35<wifid>heey mplayer tv://1 still works. camera works. good work oldbian, everything works it seems
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01:37<wifid>oh I know what will be a nice performance/stability test, bitcoin full client
01:37<wifid>detected broken mem/hdd for me few times. also zfs/btrfs perhaps
01:37<somiaj>Just compile something, browsers can be a good benchmark. (:
01:39<sney>the recommendation to reproduce memory errors always used to be to compile a kernel
01:39<wifid>eh almoost. display brightness applet not working
01:40<wifid>how to debug or try workaround
01:41<sney>do your acpi keys work?
01:44<jm_>r4fkramer: do you have os-prober installed?
01:44<sney>(by acpi keys I mean the buttons or fn-combos on your laptop)
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05:21<wifid>amd graphics with amdgpu open dirver, laptop, brightness controll does not work, how to fix?
05:23<at0m>wifid: does acpi_listen show when you press brightness control buttons?
05:23<at0m>or volume change buttons, or lid open/close, etc
05:24<GyrosGeier>sometimes
05:24<GyrosGeier>ah wait
05:25<GyrosGeier>wrong window
05:25*GyrosGeier closes 50 tabs
05:25<wifid>hmm what to install
05:25<wifid>on laptop? e.g. acpi-support was not installed
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05:27<wifid>acpi_listen does not show anything when the FN-... keys are pressed on laptop
05:28<wifid>but brightness is not controlled even with the brightness controll application, how to get any way to set bright?
05:31<wifid>echoing into /sys/device/......./acpi_video0/brightness doesn't do anything
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05:32<GyrosGeier>is there another backlight device
05:32<GyrosGeier>?
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05:37<wifid>GyrosGeier: don't see any
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05:47<GyrosGeier>because I dimly remember AMD having its own
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06:31<wifid>This session is locked
06:31<wifid>you'll be redirect to unlock dialog in few seconds
06:31<wifid>lies
06:31<wifid>when will Debian get basic UI functionality right and bug-free?
06:32<wifid>https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/unable-to-unlock-after-sleep/10575
06:32<wifid>same bug for years
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06:34<wifid>I blame Gnome as usual, it is responsible for most problems, along with systemd
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06:34<somiaj>Debian will never be bug-free
06:35<wifid>somiaj: but "being able to unlock screen" is pretty basic function
06:35<wifid>and that bug exists at least since debian 10, probably 9
06:35<Anarka>...that bug report isnt from debian
06:36<wifid>Anarka: and?
06:36<Anarka>...
06:37<somiaj>That almost sounds like it is hardware dependent due to buggy acpi
06:37<wifid>it might be a bug in lightdm
06:38<wifid>somiaj: uh no, not at all
06:38<wifid>Anarka: same bug exist in software packaged into various distros. doesn't mean debian shouldn't patch it out
06:38<Habbie>did you send debian a patch?
06:38<somiaj>complaining on irc is going to make it all better, don't worry
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06:40<wifid>what to install to try the nonfree AMD gpu drivers
06:40<somiaj>wifid: the fact that it is an issue with suspend makes me think it is buggy hardware acpi, which makes it hard to fix since the devs would need hardware that actually experiences that issue to debug it
06:40<wifid>also, how to get a bit never drivers/kernel? maybe that will fix backlight. Im on deb 11
06:41<somiaj>debian dosen't provide the amdgpu_pro drivers, and installing them is a pain. I wouldn't suggest them.
06:41<wifid>somiaj: nah that is a well known bug, probably in lightdm, seen it without any suspension being involved
06:41<wifid>somiaj: so the opensource amdgpu is the only option rly/
06:42<wifid>there is no firmware-realtek but for AMD gpu?
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06:42<somiaj>I told you that firmware-amd-graphics may help you out a while ago.
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06:42<somiaj>But you asked about the non-free drivers, not firmware.
06:42<wifid>ah I dont have nonfree here yet, allright
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06:47<wifid>all fn- functions are dead, but brightness works, on linux-firmware-nonfree
06:47<wifid>I mean, brightness setting in other ways than by FN keys
06:49<somiaj>many fn-keys are connected to the acpi/hardware and not controled by the os
06:50<sussudio>!multimedia keys
06:50<dpkg>Multimedia keys are the special keyboard keys for doing such things as changing the volume or launching your web browser. Check to see if these keys generate a scan code using xev and set the keyboard layout correctly or assign them to a shortcut with xmodmap, systemsettings, gnome-control-panel etc. See also <pbbuttons>, <tpb>. See http://tuxmobil.org/Mobile-Guide.db/mobile-guide-p2c1s8-ext-keys.html
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06:50<wifid>somiaj: that was my tohught too, so why they arent working
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06:51<wifid>btw, any idea how to enable keyboard backlight? the light under keyboard
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06:51<somiaj>check your firmware, maybe check if there are any updates to it.
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07:08<wifid>maybe newer kernel would help, is it easy to get while not giving up stability/security?
07:08<somiaj>debian provides backported kernels. These have less testing and less support than the stable kernel, but for the most part are fine
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07:08<Habbie>i've been running backports kernels on debian 10 for years
07:09<Habbie>no trouble
07:09<Habbie>(also noticed no benefits in my case though)
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07:54<patanga>fc-list shows a font available, while it does display neither in the terminal nor in chrome. Any idea why?
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08:32<colo>is there something like a Debian package dependency census/top list? that calculates which packages (esp. libraries) are the most-depended-on in the whole archive? (I imagine libc6 would rank quite high, for example ;))
08:32<petn-randall>!popcon
08:32<dpkg>it has been said that popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at http://popcon.debian.org/ -- See the FAQ at http://popcon.debian.org/FAQ . Statistics are also available via IRC, /msg judd popcon $package
08:32<petn-randall>colo: You can look up package installation stats via popcon. ^^^
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08:33<colo>petn-randall, I know about popcon (at least on the surface), but I would like to identify which libraries are the most, well, "critical" in the whole Debian package ecosystem
08:33<petn-randall>colo: It will tell you which lib is most installed, by percentage of all popcon-enabled installations.
08:34<colo>ok, that's an interesting fact in itself, but differs a bit from my own question :)
08:35<petn-randall>colo: I'm not sure how else you can measure what you're asking for.
08:36<nr0q_radio>I suppose you can read all the packages in the repo and tally up their dependencies
08:37<colo>yup. it's what I am thinking of doing :) just wanted to know if there is prior art
08:38<nr0q_radio>what'd be fun is a graph of all the packages with lines connecting them based on dependencies ;)
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08:40<at0m>nr0q_radio: you can start by putting systemd on top /me slaps self
08:40<nr0q_radio>hahaha, I'm not doing that, I have plenty I'm working on now
08:40<at0m>:)
08:40*nr0q_radio slaps the lead developer of my project for not documenting all the public domain resources it uses
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08:58<patanga>fc-list shows a font available, while the font is displayed neither in the terminal nor in chrome. Any idea what can be the reason?
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09:02<patanga>ah, it was the wrong font. sorry for the question.
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09:41<acnn>given samba on debian buster connecting to a dc in windows server 2012 I get this error . winbind_samlogon_retry_loop: sam_logon returned ACCESS_DENIED. Maybe the DC has Restrict NTLM set or the trust account password was changed and we didn't know it. Killing connections Any ideas?
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09:56<radiovision>` ^&D> iしd u%` s ^a Tr^aiN , & s u@ p p^l y i s %^i ^ s wi^th w e.^a^ p o n s l i^ k e i t d i d w i t h a l^qae^da to j. u st^ i f y c r e a t i n g w. a^ r s _
09:56<radiovision># d# i# d# c i` a d i d ^9^11^ . or, i t j u s t l e t ` it h a p p en , to j /u ^s t .i f y i n ^v a .d i n g IR^AQ
09:56<radiovision>if a l^qae^da di .d it w h y t o k ^i^ l l 9 m i^ ll^ i on . i R^6a q ^i s
09:56<radiovision>`p l e a s e .s h `a r e m y .` q s 2 ` .l e s s e n .. u s a . a g g r` e s s i o n a g a` i n s t o t h e r s
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09:57<sussudio>yay, tor again.
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10:22<free2>hello, I notice that sometimes when I call the history command I see commands I called, but some reboots later they are not shown in the output
10:23<free2>$PROMPT_COMMAND is history -a;echo, in ~/.bashrc I set histappend
10:23<free2>Could this be because I use tmux and I shutdown the computer, the bash processes in opened tmux windows get killed?
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10:31<blast007>free2: The last shell to exit may just be overwriting the history file with it's own history. I have the same thing when I use screen.
10:32<free2>I see
10:32<free2>Have you found some solution?
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10:38<blast007>this stackoverflow post mentions "Write Commands to $HISTFILE on Execution" with an alternative PROMPT_COMMAND https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14914570/how-do-i-get-the-command-history-in-a-screen-session-using-bash
10:38<free2>Thank you
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10:43<free2>I think the solution is to call 'history -r' when starting new bash session
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10:47<free2>I noticed that when I start new bash session and press the up arrow I don't see the newest commands from another session because they haven't been written yet, even though I have set $PROMPT_COMMAND to history -a;echo
10:47<free2>maybe this method with history -r will work to load/synchronise history
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10:53<free2>also there is a possibility, now that I remembered, that I went over the $HISTSIZE $HISTFILESIZE limits
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11:29<free2>this is not ideal solution. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/1288/preserve-bash-history-in-multiple-terminal-windows/1292
11:29<free2>"amount of processing work between each command is proportional to history size"
11:29<mh3f>I'm having an issue with getting my multimonitor setup working on Debian 11. It *used* to work but not sure what changed. It's an HP zbook 15 with hybrid graphics (intel + nvidia). When I setup the layout with xrandr, the 1920x1080 monitor is distorted. However, setting them up with Laptop display + 1 external monitor works https://paste.debian.net/1223867/
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11:44<mh3f>https://ibb.co/PNTV4zz is what I'm seeing
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13:00<tenketsu88>I'm new to Linux and trying to follow DontBreakDebian. I'm running Bullseye with Xfce instead of GNOME. Is it going to do bad things if I install (from offical, stable repos) packages that mention GNOME or GTK?
13:00<somiaj>No
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13:00<somiaj>you can actually have xfce and gnome installed side by side, and due to a lot of applications may depend on gtk or gnome libs, it is sometimes hard to avoid pulling in some depends
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13:02<tenketsu88>I went with Xfce because one of the reasons I switched to Debian after experimenting with Ubuntu was I wanted something more lightweight on RAM and CPU. As long as it won't crash my system or cause crazy resource bloat I don't mind if some GNOME or GTK packages are taking up hard drive space.
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13:03<tenketsu88>Thanks for the info
13:03<somiaj>well xfce uses a lot of gtk apps, so you already have some gtk libs installed (maybe even some gnome libs)
13:04<somiaj>I even have some installed, and I don't use any desktop, but a simple window manager
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13:08<sney>even gnome does not really "bloat" on modern hardware since the heavy lifting is done by the gpu, the thing that will use a lot of ram and cpu is always your browser or applications like a video editor, etc
13:08<sney>but xfce is a lot more customizeable anyway
13:09<tenketsu88>Yeah, and I might have some more from some other packages I've installed so far. This just happened to mention GNOME pretty prominently and I saw that there's I guess an Xfce specific package for it on Ubuntu (but not on Debian as far as I can tell) so I started being more concerned about it
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13:09<somiaj>it is just a lot of software is designed with gnome in mind or uses the gtk widget set, as such gnome and gtk libs are needed
13:12<tenketsu88>Well, Ubuntu with GNOME was pretty heavyweight for my liking when I was playing with it, and when I swapped out GNOME for KDE on Ubuntu the system usage dropped drastically, but I also broke my Ubuntu install. And since I was reinstalling anyway, and I'd heard Xfce was even lighter than KDE, (but more stable and functional than some other super light options), and that Debian was in general more stable and lightweight than Ubuntu, and I was more in
13:12<tenketsu88>favor of Debian philosophically once I started reading about Debian's philosophy, I thought I might as well go all the way
13:13<somiaj>Debian gives you lots of choice. Though bigger DEs do tend to try to make some of those choices for you, but overall on modern hardware with a decent gpu things should run well
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13:15<tenketsu88>For now I'm running Linux in a VM, so resource usage is a major concern, although at this point I've basically transitioned to doing most of my computing within Linux VMs and Windows just manages those VMs. Once I've fully transitioned it'll be bye bye Microsoft, but it's a process
13:17<somiaj>I find I don't use a gui in my VMs, then I can just ssh into them.
13:17<somiaj>Though the few times I've tested out gnome in a VM, it seemed to work well, though I never used it for much except to test installing it
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13:23<tenketsu88>Well this VM for example is handling most of what I do on my laptop. Personally I don't know how to effectively do most of that through SSH. That could be because I've been stuck in MS-land for too long, and it's been too many years since I used to do things via DOS, back in the Windows 3.1 days. Getting used to regularly using the terminal in Linux felt like a throwback. Not bad, but definitely an adjustment. Not unlike using IRC again after so long.
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13:24<somiaj>The bash shell is so much more functional than the old DOS shell or even windows CMD shell
13:24<tenketsu88>I've definitely noticed that
13:24<somiaj>I'd personally suggest getting use to it, as it is often useful even when using a desktop for certain things (espically debugging)
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13:25<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
13:25<somiaj>Though I'm one of those who say the best thing about xorg is multiple xterms. Outside of a few select gui apps I used, almost everythign is done in shells
13:25<somiaj>cousin_luigi: welcome
13:26<cousin_luigi>Using bullseye with sysvinit on a headless SBC and lighttpd is never actually launched on startup: how would you find out what's happening?
13:27<tenketsu88>I've been trying to do things via the terminal as my preferred method actually, because another reason I decided to go with Debian after dipping my toe in with Ubuntu is that I read that it would basically force you to learn what Linux is actually doing in order to use it, unlike Ubuntu or some other more accessible distros, but without going all the way and throwing you directly in the deep end like Arch.
13:27<somiaj>ahh debugging sysvinit. In general it depends on the init.d script being used and what (if any) logging it does
13:27<sney>I'd start with the lighttpd log and see if it's bailing for some config reason, or can't bind the port etc
13:28<sney>(perhaps you have the r4f virus and it's deleting /var/log ;D )
13:28<somiaj>cousin_luigi: also try to start it manually using /etc/init.d/foo start (whatever the startup scirpt is called) and see if that works
13:29<somiaj>sney: I still don't understand that one, but the again I also would expect someone who has been comming here for years to have a bit better understanding of the shell
13:29<somiaj>I think they are trying to be a sysadmin which worries me
13:29<sney>every time I get a glimpse of r4f's professional involvement with linux stuff it makes me wish I hadn't
13:30<sney>for a while I think he was teaching
13:30<somiaj>yikes
13:30<sney>indeed
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13:33<cousin_luigi>somiaj: It does of course.
13:33<cousin_luigi>somiaj: Sorry, should have mentioned that earlier.
13:34<sney>according to https://salsa.debian.org/debian/lighttpd/-/blob/master/debian/lighttpd.init that init script allows 'status' and 'configtest' as commands along with the usual start/stop stuff
13:34<cousin_luigi>sney: status says running now, after launching it manually.
13:35<cousin_luigi>configtest doesn't seem to return anything
13:35<somiaj>cousin_luigi: might be a boot order issue. Is the link in /etc/rc2.d (or whatever run level use) there, maybe it is booting too early and the LSB headers need to be updated
13:35<somiaj>does lighhttpd require the network to be up to run? Could it be it is running before that?
13:36<cousin_luigi>somiaj: I'm not sure. Isn't there a log that keeps track of what daemons are launched?
13:37<somiaj>not really, this wasn't a feature of sysvinit. Each service kinda kept its own logs
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13:38<somiaj>this is one of the many reasons I actually prefer systemd, but that is besides the point. You can't find in lighttpd logs why it didn't start at boot, and you did check the link in /etc/rc?.d/ was there for the correct run level you are using?
13:39<cousin_luigi>checking
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13:40<cousin_luigi>somiaj: https://paste.debian.net/1223875/
13:41<somiaj>time to dig though the lighttpd logs and see if you can figure out why it isn't starting (and you are booting into run level 2 correctly?)
13:41<cousin_luigi>Setting up a logfile
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13:42<somiaj>I would think lighttpd already had one
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13:49<cousin_luigi>somiaj: I had disabled it. I have a very limited use for it.
13:49<cousin_luigi>Anyway right now it creates an empty error.log
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13:50<cousin_luigi>Perhaps they'll know more on #lighttpd
13:51<sney>if it's just failing to start and not logging anything, it's hard to know where to look
13:51<sney>maybe something is squawking in syslog?
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13:52<sney>(aside: maybe one of the best arguments against SysV in 2021 is that we have all forgotten how to troubleshoot it ;)
13:52<somiaj>if it is running manually using /etc/init.d/foo start, but not at boot, this is some dependency issue where it is being run too soon in the boot process. My guess would be the network isn't fully up, and just making it run later int he boot process would help
13:53<cousin_luigi>somiaj: I'm using a custom setup with a read-only root and logs backed up individually. I'm not sure journald would work too well with that. Trying syslog
13:54<somiaj>is /var read-only, could it be that it can't write to some file and is erroring out?
13:55<cousin_luigi>somiaj: It's mounted with tmpfs
13:55<cousin_luigi>Anyway the log is on /mnt now and I was wrong. That empty.error log is old crud.
13:55<cousin_luigi>There's nothing about it, just the start and the stop during the last shutdown, but nothing else
13:56<cousin_luigi>Perhaps I could try and postpone it by hand? Make it, say 08 instead of 05 ?
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13:57<somiaj>well if lighthttpd is trying to run before your tmpfs is setup, it won't be able to log anything, and might error out without telling you why
13:57<somiaj>anyways, yes you can move the link, but next time somethign is updated it will be reset, you should adjust the LSB HEADERS in the /etc/init.d/ file
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13:58<somiaj>as for systemd, all of its logs are in memeory, and it is optional to write them to the disk as /var/log/journal, which you can turn off (now on by defualt)
13:58<somiaj>I'd be surprised if systemd couldn't work with a read only / setup
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14:01<cousin_luigi>somiaj: You mean /etc/init.d/lighttpd knows the default priority for each runlevel?
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14:01<cousin_luigi>I thought that came from the deb install script.
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14:02<cousin_luigi>Will try and convert the setup to journald someday, I agree this is too much of a hassle.
14:04<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts
14:05<somiaj>sysvinit scripts have lbs headers which state thigns like what run level to start, what to stop, any dependencies, which is used to create the link order)
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14:07<cousin_luigi>somiaj: OK, but I can't see the priority anywhere.
14:08<cousin_luigi>Anyway will try by hand again, stay tuned:)
14:08<somiaj>did you see that wiki page, it should have a Required-Start: and Required-Stop: line and list some services as varaibles
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14:13<somiaj>cousin_luigi: note manually moving the links S10... whatever might be a good test, just realize they may be reverted if ever you enable/disable/install/remove a service as they are all recalculated using LSB headers
14:13<cousin_luigi>:/
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14:13<somiaj>but if moving he link makes it work, you know it is a dependency issue. Another really bad hack, but one to test is put like a 'sleep 10' near the start of the script.
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14:14<somiaj>Make it wait to run, of course I wouldn't use this on a system, but it would allow you to test the theory of the script is running before vital components are fully ran
14:16<sney>the lighttpd init script in bullseye has $network in Required-Start, I wonder if there's something else that's just taking forever to actually go: https://salsa.debian.org/debian/lighttpd/-/blob/debian/1.4.59-1/debian/lighttpd.init
14:16<sney>like a super slow dhcp response
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14:23<ivan81>anyone where can I ask help about howto do formal backports?
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14:23<ivan81>anyone knows where can I ask help about howto do formal backports?
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14:24<sney>if by "formal" you mean official debian packages, that's in #debian-mentors
14:24<sney>but if you are just making them for yourself, you can ask here
14:25<cousin_luigi>sney: somiaj: tried priority 14, no change
14:25<ivan81>i know howto make simplebackports
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14:25<ivan81>I have tried to do a formal backport of pipewire
14:25<sney>usually official backports of debian packages are made by the package maintainer, though sometimes you need to request it if it doesn't exist yet
14:26<ivan81>ok I ask in debian-mentors
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14:28<cousin_luigi>Maybe I just need to find the time to convert this to systemd
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14:28<sney>cousin_luigi: yeah, at least it'll make it easier to support
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15:39<solarsealion>I have a program that wont launch on debian buster installed from canonicals snap store 'VSCodium' program is customized and I don't want to lose my settings how could I fix this without reinstalling the program?
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15:42<sney>linux programs are not supposed to delete settings when reinstalled, I don't know if this is different for snaps but I doubt it
15:42<sney>we don't have a lot of experience with snap here, but still, what happens when you try to launch it?
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15:45<spawacz>i've installed exactly the same debian to sdcard and emmc for an arm board, there are no major differences in dmesg, but sound works only on the sdcard variant...
15:45<spawacz>is there any reason for that?
15:46<spawacz>i checked everything i could
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15:46<spawacz>aplay -L is identical
15:46<sney>muted in alsamixer?
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15:48<spawacz>no
15:49<Sqrt{Not}>solarsealion, why did you install that snap instead of the provided .deb package?
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15:52<Sqrt{Not}>solarsealion, also, how did you customize its settings if it will not launch?
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15:56<solarsealion>Sqrt{Not}, because I found this on the snap store and just clicked to install it I guess, I was unable to launch hexchat at the time also and customizations are just basic personalisation customizations you do to vscode
15:58<Sqrt{Not}>solarsealion, at https://vscodium.com/ I see they offer a .deb package to install on debian
15:58<Sqrt{Not}>That might be quicker/easier to deal with, if you haven't actually been able to even start your snap version
15:59<solarsealion>Sqrt{Not}, I use this program daily it has only done this today
16:00<Sqrt{Not}>so wait, you mean the snap version was running before, but now it stopped working?
16:00<solarsealion>Yes
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16:00<Sqrt{Not}>what did you change since last time it worked correctly?
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16:01<solarsealion>nothing my system is setup to install updates automatically
16:01<solarsealion>not sure if there were updates though
16:01<solarsealion>*security updates
16:03<Sqrt{Not}>solarsealion, this earlier question was meant for you: sney> we don't have a lot of experience with snap here, but still, what happens when you try to launch it?
16:03<solarsealion>Nothing happens I expect it to open but nothing
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16:06<Sqrt{Not}>anything in the logs/journal? what exactly do you do to launch it? some command? click something? associated to a file type?
16:07<solarsealion>I normally select the icon from the launcher but I have also tried 'codium' from command line both same result
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16:09<Sqrt{Not}>from the command line, is there an error message, or just "nothing"
16:09<solarsealion>no errors it behaves as if it launched
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16:10<Sqrt{Not}>what does that mean? what behavior do you see?
16:11<solarsealion>it receives command goes to next line with no output awaiting next command
16:13<nr0q_radio>do you see it running if you open a second terminal and do a ps -A or top command?
16:14<Sqrt{Not}>(or even `ps -afxu | grep codium`)
16:14<solarsealion>yes I see it there for a brief moment with top
16:17<Sqrt{Not}>[14:06:20] <Sqrt{Not}> anything in the logs/journal?
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16:18<solarsealion>nothing in /var/log/debug
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16:19<Sqrt{Not}>does the snap install provide any kind of man page for the thing, or other documentation?
16:20<solarsealion>VSCodium 1.63.0
16:20<solarsealion>Usage: codium [options][paths...]
16:20<solarsealion>To read from stdin, append '-' (e.g. 'ps aux | grep code | codium -')
16:20<solarsealion>Options
16:20<solarsealion> -d --diff <file> <file> Compare two files with each other.
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16:20<solarsealion> `--force` argument to update to latest version. To
16:20<solarsealion> install a specific version provide `@${version}`. For
16:21<solarsealion> example: 'vscode.csharp@1.2.3'.
16:21<solarsealion> --pre-release Installs the pre-release version of the extension,
16:21<Sqrt{Not}>solarsealion, stop
16:21<solarsealion> when using --install-extension
16:21<solarsealion> --uninstall-extension <extension-id> Uninstalls an extension.
16:21-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*sgfsf@*.10-1.cable.virginm.net] by Ganneff
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16:23<Sqrt{Not}>solarsealion, DO NOT JUST COPY THE MAN PAGE TO THIS CHANNEL
16:24<solarsealion>I didn't know it would create so many individual entries
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16:24<user__>test
16:24<solarsealion>I thought it would copy as one message
16:25<Sqrt{Not}>instead, you could just look at the man page, and see if you find a debugging strategy there
16:25<solarsealion>I think maybe if i run it in verbose
16:25<Sqrt{Not}>ahhh, that sounds good
16:26<Sqrt{Not}>also try this, just to see of the old instances are still running: ps -afxu | grep codium
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16:27<solarsealion>output user 6048 0.0 0.0 6076 884 pts/0 S+ 21:27 0:00 | \_ grep codium
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16:29<solarsealion>in verbose output: [6096:1217/212854.543723:FATAL:zygote_host_impl_linux.cc(117)] No usable sandbox! Update your kernel or see https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/linux/suid_sandbox_development.md for more information on developing with the SUID sandbox. If you want to live dangerously and need an immediate workaround, you can try using --no-sandbox.
16:29<somiaj>Sqrt{Not}: seeing everyones default ps goto is always interseting. I always use 'ps fax'
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16:30<user__>exit
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16:31<solarsealion>This program was running yesterday on this system
16:31<somiaj>do you recall any changes you have made since yesterday?
16:32<somiaj>Did you reboot? Sometimes rebooting will bring up issues that could have happened since your last reboot
16:32<solarsealion>I have rebooted thought that would fix this issue initially
16:33<blast007>specifically, had you rebooted the computer between when the program worked and stopped worked?
16:33<solarsealion>yes blast007
16:36<Sqrt{Not}>you said you have automatic software updates enabled. were any updates installed since last time you ran this program successfully?
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16:40<solarsealion>no last update by unattended-upgrades was on 05/12
16:40<Sqrt{Not}>OK, good
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16:42<Sqrt{Not}>that error message is saying something about suid.... are you running this as root, or as the regular user? is the executable file setuid?
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16:44<somiaj>You haven't had any upgrades since 05/12? Though that is a different issue altogether.
16:45<solarsealion> 2021-12-05 16:00:45
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16:46<somiaj>oh sorry, I'm just use to a worse way of stating dates
16:46<somiaj>I read 05/12 as month day, not day/month
16:46<somiaj>yea that seems fine
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16:53<solarsealion>the program in canonical snapstore says it was last updated 17/12/21, Sqrt{Not} I run it as a regular user normally without password but it does say it is unconfined in the snap store.
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16:54<Sqrt{Not}>is it possible that it automatically downloads updates of itself from that snapstore? it was updated today (or yesterday) so maybe a new version
16:55<solarsealion>Maybe it does do that or runs a remote library, I haven't updated it locally.
16:55<Sqrt{Not}>what is the date/time on the binary file on your machine?
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16:57<solarsealion>do you mean the time in my system tray?
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16:59<Sqrt{Not}>do this: `which codium` then `ls -l /whatever/path/codium` so we see the details of the actual executable file
17:00<solarsealion>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Dec 17 01:19 /snap/bin/codium -> /usr/bin/snap
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17:02<Sqrt{Not}>hmmm. I don't know enough about snap to understand what to look at, if the command just results in running a program named snap. maybe we could see: ls -l /usr/bin/snap
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17:03<solarsealion>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14997328 Jun 6 2019 /usr/bin/snap
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17:08<somiaj>I thought snap will automatically update as soon as a new version is available (one of the bigger critisims I've heard against snapd)
17:09<somiaj>well updaet stuff installed with snap
17:09<Sqrt{Not}>way outside any of my knowledge here. Others may be able to help you with snap. It might be faster/cleaner to move away from this ubuntu/snap version of your program, and install the debian specific .deb file from vscodium.com
17:11<solarsealion>it looks like that is what happened somiaj, i thought ubuntu was debian underneath the paint?
17:12<somiaj>solarsealion: ubuntu is probably the furtest away from debian you can be and still be based on debian
17:13<somiaj>They have a totally different philsophy, and have heavly modifed the core part of the os (they just use debian's .debs for part of their universe, outside of the core), and have been moving heavly to snaps
17:14<somiaj>But snaps on the other hand are supose to be OS independent, and bundle everything. Though finding users here familar enough with them to debug your issue maybe be slow on the weekend.
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17:14<somiaj>I've just heard they auto update without warning, which to many isn't a good feature to have, but it is how they work...so it could totally be possible the snap updated itself and broke in yoursetup.
17:15<solarsealion>I will try extract my settings from the root and install the deb thanks for your help
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17:17<corck>hi
17:17<solarsealion>exit
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17:17<corck>why does hexchat doesnt work with torsocks?
17:18<nr0q_radio>snaps ... I really really do not like them for the reasons we've seen here
17:19<corck>nr0q_radio: is that message for me?
17:19<nr0q_radio>no
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17:24<wnklmnn>Cork, any reason you want to use torsocks? HexChat has the option to set the socks5 proxy in the settings.
17:27<clar3nce>hi im having trouble registering an account on salsa.debian.org, filled in the registration form with the same email used for my debian wiki account and same email that i created a gitlam.com account with and its saying my account need to be authorized by my administrator but i cannot find anywhere where it mentions if it must be authorised by a member of the debian team or if i have to autorize myself ? ?
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17:50<bremner>already answered on #salsa
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17:51<Urk>I am wondering if anyone is or planning on adding Gammy to the stable back ports? There is a strong case to be made to add Gammy since many of the newer laptops have excessive amounts of blue light. My laptop gives off 6500k which is in the danger range. Gammy can fix this.
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17:51<somiaj>,v gammy
17:51<judd>No package named 'gammy' was found in amd64.
17:52<somiaj>Well seems that package isn't even in debian or does it have another name?
17:52<Urk>There are other programs that add lower color temperatures, but they work poorly. Recently I tried red shift which didn't seem to be a suitable rendition, and was an overkill. In contrast, Gammy allow you to control color temperature and quality in fine degrees.
17:52<bremner>!rfp
17:52<dpkg>Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>.
17:53<bremner>Urk: ^
17:53<somiaj>Though most RFPs will die unless someone steps up and does the work.
17:54<bremner>true, the odds are not great, but still better than asking here
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17:54<Urk>https://kerneltips.com/best-blue-light-filter-for-linux
17:54<somiaj>Yea, I didn't see any rfp bug, though it appears it is fairly easy to just build from github. I'd just do that unless you want to volunteer to maintain it in debian
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17:55<somiaj>But you are jumping the gun, don't worry about a stable backport until the package is in debian in the first place.
17:55<somiaj>file an RFP bug and hope someone wants to package it, or volunteer to do it yourself
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17:57<Urk>There is a case to be made for adapting Gammy into the Debian repos.
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17:57<bremner>Urk: are you reading our responses?
17:58<Urk>I am, but not as smart as all of you think I am. Once before I tried to submit bugs, and was shot down so I gave up.
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18:00<somiaj>Urk: I'm just pointing out the process. At a minimum you need to file an RFP bug, and provide info about the software including license info. Though the change of it getting into debian is if you did the work. Otherwise you kinda have to hope someone else decides they have the time for it.
18:00<somiaj>*chance
18:01<Urk>Whats the link for filing the RFP bug?
18:01<somiaj>The bot gave you a link, http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp
18:02<Urk>Thanks.
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18:37<Sqrt{Not}>somiaj, my ps muscle memory is from NetBSD (I think) at garnet.msen.com
18:40<somiaj>I just like fax and faux because I think of them as words
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18:41<corck>test
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20:36<userT>When unmounting/ejecting a USB stick I normally close all file browser instances, or at least change view back to $HOME before unmounting. But today I made mistake and unmounted while the window still viewing USB.
20:37<userT>The effect was, file browser changing back to $HOME automatically and immediately.
20:37<userT>Is this expected? Can USB be damaged?
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20:43<Sqrt{Not}>userT, how did you unmount it? which file browser?
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20:45<userT>Sqrt{Not}: I'm on KDE, used system tray bar to unmount
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20:53<userT>Hello?
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20:54<Sqrt{Not}>hi userT, I have no experience with the system tray bar unmounter, sorry
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20:55<userT>Sqrt{Not}: and with GNOME, or any other window manager?
20:56<Sqrt{Not}>userT, I have tried gnome before, but I didn't see a system tray bar unmounter there
20:57<jmcnaught>In GNOME you can unmount from Nautilus aka Files
20:57<jmcnaught>GNOME does not have a system tray anymore.
20:58<userT>Ok, then same question applies, since it has happened to me also on GNOME.
20:58<jmcnaught>I do not think the USB would be damaged by this.
20:59<userT>When unmounting while still viewing the USB, it always suddenly changes back to $HOME after unmounting.
20:59<userT>Could this damage USB?
21:01<userT>??
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21:06<userT>Then no?
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21:14<somiaj>as long as you are unmounting it you should be fine
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21:16<userT>So as long as unmounting it correctly, that even file manager says "unmounted", no matter the rest of its behavior?
21:17<somiaj>that is just the filemanager beign smart, detecting you are unmounting it and updating itself
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21:22<userT>And that file manager's behavior doesn't affect anything?
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21:34<userT>??
21:34<jmcnaught>Why would it?
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21:45<userT>Ok
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23:59<Urk>somiaj: I used the bug reporter for Gammy, and wondering if I did it right? The following is a snapshot of the last thing on my screen when I was done https://ibb.co/2jSgjcW
---Logclosed Sat Dec 18 00:00:26 2021