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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-18

---Logopened Sat Dec 18 00:00:26 2021
---Daychanged Sat Dec 18 2021
00:00<somiaj>You should get an email confiming the bug report
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00:00<somiaj>Though you didn't follow the instructions ont he linke I shared
00:00<somiaj>You need to label the bug as RFP: ...
00:01<Urk>I see Gammy as a very useful tool for users, particularly Dell users since Dell has incresed blue light in order to increase brightness. I don't agree with this approach.
00:01<Urk>I can redoe it.
00:01<somiaj>You need to include a descirption of teh package, the license info, and link to it upstream
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00:01<somiaj>Sure, it might be useful, an RFP can sometimes get someoen to do the work, it is better than asking here, since nothing will become of that
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00:02<Urk>somiaj: What should I put for version?
00:03<Urk>Its available from Git, and appears to work in both Arch and Fedora.
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00:03<Urk>Where do I put this RFP thing you were talking about?
00:03<Urk>How do I link this to upstream?
00:04<Urk>Do you mean a link to GIT?
00:04<somiaj>You should put the version of the package that currnetly available on git
00:04<somiaj>But really you should read up on the RFP bugs, and provide the requested info. I think you can fill this out yourself
00:05<somiaj>also I don't think RFP bugs are important, they are just normal
00:06<Urk>I am at the line asking me to describe the problem in 100 words or less. Is this where the RFP goes?
00:06<Urk>I did find the version, and entered it.
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00:07<Urk>Is this ok for a description "Adapt Gammy so that a user can control color temperature, control brightness, and avoid eye damage."
00:08<Urk>ok, I entered normal, but don't see where to enter the RFP.
00:09<Urk>page me if commenting. I am minimizing so that I can do an RMA and exchange on a new Samsung phone I bought.
00:11<somiaj>well RFP is already asking for a package, so you just need to write a description of what the software does.
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00:16<Urk>I wrote a description in the area for descriptions so hopefully I did it right. This time it was submitted.
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00:56<sanroot>Which branch of Debian would be ideal for media server ?
00:58<sanroot>My arch is broke ,i distro hopped to Debian ,but i found smb to be little slower ,then it was in arch ,i guess bleeding edge nature of arch.
00:59<Urk>sanroot: Not sure, but I have always gravitated to stable, and just use backports for things that weren't in the repos.
00:59<sanroot>So maybe debian unstable or testing ?
01:00<sanroot>Hmm yeh good idea backport ,i am already using flatpak for desktop apps ,just flatpak don't package server apps.
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01:09<sussudio>what is a "media server"? why don't you get something idiot-proof like libreelec to play videos...
01:10<sussudio>or whatever they've forked it to by now.
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01:17<maxzor>The mess of a structure that is current /lib is not in the FHS I did not know, notably that config have nothing to do there but rather in /usr. Why is it that cmake configs have spread to /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/cmake on top of /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/cmake and /usr/share/cmake-3.22/Modules/
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01:18<maxzor>I am dealing with rocm packaging, the AMD engineers wanted to show their cmake skills, they have written thousands of line of cmake, maybe more than c++ lol. A cmake that is garbage and goes in every direction...
01:18<raven523>x86_64-linux-gnu is the main platform target. you could potentially have toolchains installed for other targets, like aarch64-linux-gnu
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01:36<somiaj>maxzor: with usrmerge /lib -> /usr/lib so those are the same directory now
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01:37<dpkg>/usr merge is the combining of /bin and /usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin on fresh installs of Debian 10 Buster. On machines upgraded from Stretch, this is optional, and can be accomplished if desired via the usrmerge package, or <> Note that usrmerge can be confusing for tools like dpkg -S.
01:37<somiaj>basically this has been default other places for a while, is default in bullseye, and eventually it won't be possible to have non usrmerge
01:38<somiaj>Though as mentioned /usr/share vs /usr/lib/arch seperation might depend on if a package is multiarch or not and one needs to separate stuff to allow say i386 and amd64 to be installed side by side
01:38<somiaj>or any other arch
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01:43<sussudio>in soviet russia, /ussr/ merge?
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01:44<maxzor>in soviet russia, there is ussr ad lib, can't merge
01:45<maxzor>ah, that would be ab lib, joke failed
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02:05<Karlton>ah, it's only been 30+ years since anyone has had a reason to mount /usr on a different disk
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02:12<trevorksmith>i suspect one of my ports on my HBA card may have went bad. Is there a way to confirm this in the terminal?
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03:33<somiaj>trevorksmith: look at the output of dmesg, do you see lots of errors?
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04:39<wifid>what is needed to run on computer running that that UEFI/EFI mode or how ever it is called, with "Secure boot"?
04:39<wifid>and how to tell debian net installer to do that, and what partitions to create?
04:39<wifid>normally I just use normal GRUB and I just create /boot with 300 MB and set bootable flag on it.
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04:52<XileX>wifid: If you boot the installer in uefi mode, the installer automatically enables it
04:53<wifid>XileX: and partitions? I am doing manual partitioning
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04:59<XileX>wifid: Not sure about what partitions are required, but iirc the installer will warn you if it thinks it wouldn't be able to install bootloader with your partitions
05:02<XileX>It seems my system has 512M EFI partition, then ext4 and swap
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07:21<wifid>how to create EFI partition, what size and other attributes?
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07:53<Sqrt{Not}>%secure boot
07:53<dselect>Beginning with buster, the very basic bootloader (the "shim") is built by Debian and signed by Verisign/Microsoft with their key that is commonly preloaded on vendor firmwares (and is also used to sign the windows bootloader); the shim ships the debian trust root, and grub, the kernel, and the kernel modules for secure boot are signed with a Debian key -- see
07:53<Sqrt{Not}>wifid, maybe that wiki page will help
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08:10<Sqrt{Not}>!install manual
08:10<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian 11 "Bullseye" can be found at . See also <errata> and <bullseye release notes>.
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08:10<Sqrt{Not}>wifid, also helpful if you haven't seen it yet ^^^
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08:11<nr0q_radio>got a generic question ... so the app that I'm on the dev team for traditionally was released as a tar.gz that users downloaded, extracted and just ran out of their downloads directory, that appears to no longer work with new releases but our newer .deb installed version works perfectly.
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08:12<nr0q_radio>is that an AppArmor thing blocking the exctuable from running if launched from /home/<user>/Downloads/appdir
08:12<bremner>possibly. Did you check the logs?
08:12<bremner>or ask the user to check the logs?
08:13<bremner>fwiw, that seems like a reasonable restriction to me
08:13<nr0q_radio>I can, I have a deb VM spun up, I got bogged down in the error messages which all pointed to not being able to access pretty much anything lol
08:14<nr0q_radio>I agree, and if it were me, I'd phase out the tar.gz version
08:15<bremner>see, you can blame Debian for being security meanies, and do what you wanted to do anyway.
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08:16<nr0q_radio>lol I run RHEL as my daily driver and I'm a SELinux (and by extension AppArmor) promoter
08:16<nr0q_radio>I fully agree with the stance of applications running in application space and not working if not in it's correct box in the linux world
08:19<nr0q_radio>our senior dev is going to explode, he thinks he should get to run anything anywhere anyway he wants o_O
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08:55<Karlton>not being able to execute from /home is more like security through obsecurity to me
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08:57<bremner>Karlton: /home is one thing, /home/Downloads is another
08:58<JPT>You can just curl | bash if you really want to :)
08:58<Karlton>or run a web browser
08:58<JPT>But it still may help against accidental mistakes
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11:42<Forty-Bot>is there an article on choosing a package name if the upstream name conflicts with an existing package?
11:43<Forty-Bot>I saw that docker (the containerization software) is named because docker (the system tray software) already existed, but how was the ".io" suffix chosen?
11:44<Forty-Bot>should I choose the website name? e.g.
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11:46<bremner>Forty-Bot: if this is for a package to upload to debian, try #debian-mentors
11:46<bremner>otherwise, do what you want :)
11:46<somiaj>#debian-mentors maybe able to help come up with a name. For instance when chromium was first added to debian it was called chromium-browser
11:47<somiaj>it probably best depends on the software in question and maybe what others call it to distniguish between the package already in debian
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11:49<Guest8014>i have mysql-server-5.7, and in /etc/mysql/mysql.conf.d/mysqld.cnf it has `bind-address =`. However using `ss`, i find it's listening on all interfaces/addresses. any idea what i might be missing?
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12:25<gulamtcho>Hi, is it allowed to post here links?
12:25<gulamtcho>sudo apt-get install devscripts equivs gdebi-core
12:25<gulamtcho>git clone
12:25<gulamtcho>cd WoeUSB
12:25<gulamtcho>sudo gdebi woeusb-build-deps_<version>_all.deb
12:25<gulamtcho>dpkg-buildpackage -uc -b
12:25-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@2003:d2:f73d:a954:57e6:68bd:479d:dd94] by debchange
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12:28<bremner>gulamtcho: you'll be able to talk again in a few minutes. In the mean time, consider using
12:28-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*@2003:d2:f73d:a954:57e6:68bd:479d:dd94] by debchange
12:29<gulamtcho>Ah its OK. I will do a bootable USB Stick under a Windows with rufus.
12:29<gulamtcho>Thks anyway! :)
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12:29<bremner>and now we wait for the "rufus doesn't work..."
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12:30<nr0q_radio>haha I should just write a shell script wrapper for dd and publish it
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12:31<root>hi i am root
12:31<nr0q_radio>without flash drive plugged in, start script, prompt user to pug in flash drive, press enter, ask is this your flash drive, write image to flash drive, done
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12:33<zoke>nr0q_radio: probably needs a GUI in order for people to use it :p
12:33<nr0q_radio>lol, well I suppose I could do a ncurses "TUI" thing
12:33-!-mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ
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12:34<butilka123>in the gnu menu when booting my debian 5.10.0-10-amd64 is not working how can i fix that?
12:34<butilka123>only 5.10.0-9-amd64 is working
12:34<somiaj>nr0q_radio: using cp is usually suggested vs dd for debian.iso, though both works
12:35<nr0q_radio>cp to write the iso to a flash drive ?
12:35<somiaj>'cp debian.iso /dev/sdX'
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12:35<nr0q_radio>I had no idea that'd work, wow
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12:36<somiaj>you can even use cat, but well we'll not talk about that
12:37<somiaj>butilka123: can you expand on not working, what is it doing?
12:37<butilka123>somiaj: i get stuck in the booting process no progress
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12:38<somiaj>butilka123: we need a bit more of a description to understand what is going on? Do you just boot to a black screen?
12:40<butilka123>at this point nothing is happening
12:40<butilka123>i waited 20 minutes
12:41<somiaj>butilka123: do you usually boot into a display manager (graphical login) or a console login?
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12:42<butilka123>somiaj: Its first loading graphical GNU GRUB where i can select stuff and then after i selected something i boot into console and then into KDE
12:42<butilka123>i dunno how to explain it
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12:45<spawacz>do you explicitly invoke startx or similar command to start kde, do you login to tty first?
12:46<somiaj>butilka123: well I'm wondering if maybe there is an issue with your gpu drivers, i have two suggestions. boot into the working kernel and first, 'journalctl -b -1', see if you notice anything near the end of that log about what failed. The other thought is 'systemctl default' and then see if you can boot just fine into a non-graphical enviorment
12:47<spawacz>i would try adding "nomodeset" (in case gpu is damaged or drivers brokne) and removing "quiet" (to see verbose log) from boot line
12:48<earendel_>kvm disabled by bios? is that something running in a vm?
12:48<butilka123>earendel_: no
12:49<earendel_>and what is the virtualization daemon that gets started?
12:50<somiaj>spawacz: the fact the previous kernel works I think it is fine without nomodset
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12:54<butilka123>somiaj: "systemctl default" i dont know what you mean with that
12:55<somiaj>running that command will make your system not boot into xorg at boot, then reboot into the new kernel. If that works, we know the issue is with xorg/kde
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12:56<somiaj>don't quite see what is going on from the journal log, but it does appear that systemd is shutting down because it is stopping all your services
12:56<somiaj>was that from a boot that failed on the new kernel or one that worked on the old kernel.
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12:57<butilka123>somiaj: when i run the command i get the error: "Too many arguments."
12:58<butilka123>and how can i execute a command before booting
12:58<butilka123>the input is not working when i boot
12:59<nr0q_radio>sounds like your still in the grub command line
12:59<butilka123>im in my os right now
13:00<butilka123>with the working one
13:00<somiaj>butilka123: sorry my mistake, it is 'set-default', not 'default', so 'systemctl set-default'
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13:10<butilka>I'm now on my phone
13:10<butilka>I managed to login
13:10<butilka>What now
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13:11<somiaj>so it boots just fine with the, this might mean a gpu driver issue. What gpu/driver do you use?
13:11<butilka>Nvidia Rtx 2070 super
13:11<butilka>I launched Battlefield 2042 with proton and it also throwed a gpu error
13:12<butilka>This might be the reason
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13:13<somiaj>butilka: how did you install the nvidia drivers for that gpu?
13:13<somiaj>or are you using the nouveau drivers (guess I shoudln't assume you are using non-free drivers)
13:14<butilka>I downloaded drivers from nvidia page and disabeled noevau
13:14<somiaj>okay that is your problem
13:14<somiaj>this is why we say do not install the drivers using the upstream .run file, you should use debian packages
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13:15<butilka>The open souce ones crated not nice graphical bugs
13:15<somiaj>before you do that you should remove the old drivers using the nvidia-installer-cleanup packages
13:15<somiaj>I didn't suggest nouveau here. I said you need to install the drivers from debian packages, not from upstream
13:15<somiaj>This will make sure they are rebuilt each time you have a kernel upgrade
13:16<butilka>Can you guide me im on my phone and resarching on that is kinds a pain
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13:16<butilka>Or can i use my workking one for that?
13:16<somiaj>read that link, and I don't have time to guide you, others might
13:16<somiaj>you can boot into your working kernel to do this
13:17<butilka>Ah ok ty
13:17<butilka>How i enable it again
13:17<butilka>The graphical
13:17<gulamtcho>I have tried to make a bootable Win10 USB Stick with rufus but it did not work
13:17<gulamtcho>So I would like to do it with Linux
13:17<somiaj>butilka: systemctl set-default
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13:17<gulamtcho>I have problem to follow this instruction:
13:17<somiaj>gulamtcho: we can't really support windows or making a bootable win10 stick here
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13:17<gulamtcho>can some one help :) ?
13:18<bremner>gulamtcho: how about following the instructions in the debian official docs?
13:18<gulamtcho>sounds great
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13:18<bremner>also, are you really trying to boot Windows?
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13:19<gulamtcho>during startup i push a "F"key and select boot from USB
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13:20<bremner>gulamtcho: OK, but to repeat my question, what OS are you trying to boot?
13:20<bremner>OK, I doubt many here can help with that. I cannot.
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13:21<gulamtcho>Thats not the point :) I would like to know how to generally create a bootable with Debian OS
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13:23<nr0q_radio>but the point everyone else is trying to make is that Windows Bootables are a different beast from a Linux one, because Windows images are more finicky
13:23<zoke>gulamtcho: 'dd if=bootable.iso of=/dev/<usbdev>' is the general way of creating bootable usb
13:24<DevEd>hello, i'm having trouble setting up wi-fi on a (mostly) fresh debian install
13:24<zoke>which works for pretty much any bootable linux iso
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13:24<gulamtcho>zoke: ok thks I will try it
13:24<Sqrt{Not}>gulamtcho, if you use dd, remember to sync after
13:25<butilka123>Sqrt{Not}: snyc?
13:25<DevEd>i've found that a raspberry pi imager will also work nicely for creating bootable USB
13:25<Sqrt{Not}>it is a command "sync"
13:25<butilka123>what does it do
13:26<nr0q_radio>I'd suggest doing `ls /dev` before and after inserting the USB drive to verify which device it is
13:26<Sqrt{Not}>see its man page. in general it makes sure all writes to disk have finished, before it returns to the command prompt
13:26<zoke>force writes all buffered writes to disk basicly
13:27<butilka123>ok good to know ty
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13:28<Sqrt{Not}>especially important for writing USB sticks, because they can be slooooow about physically writing sometimes.
13:28<zoke>you can also add 'conv=fsync' as an option to dd
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13:35<DevEd>still need help with wi-fi
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13:37<Sqrt{Not}>DevEd, tell us more details about your wi-fi struggles
13:38<DevEd>it's able to see my wi-fi network, but when i try to connect it says "no secrets were provided"
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13:38<DevEd>i'm certain I have the right SSID + password
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13:41<Sqrt{Not}>DevEd, what program are you using on your debian machine to make this connection? How or when or where are you entering the SSID/pw ?
13:42<butilka123> - How can i find the matching drivers?
13:42<DevEd>Sqrt{Not}: using KDE's network manager
13:43<DevEd>i also tried nmcli and nmtui, no dice
13:43<nr0q_radio>have you connected to this network before with this device?
13:44<DevEd>outside of this debian install?
13:45<DevEd>yes, i'm using the exact same connection with win10
13:45<nr0q_radio>that eliminates the network card not being compatible with the network
13:45<DevEd>i understand my specific wifi hardware requires nonfree drivers (which i have installed)
13:46<jmcnaught>DevEd: what exactly did you install?
13:46<DevEd>broadcom-sta-dkms is the specific package i installed
13:47<butilka123>zoke: ty
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13:50<jmcnaught>DevEd: what does "lspci -nnkd ::0280" say?
13:50<jmcnaught>DevEd: also have you looked in journalctl to see what messages are there from when you try to connect?
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13:50<DevEd>jmcnaught: one sec
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13:54<DevEd>jmcnaught: lspci output:
13:54<butilka123>somiaj: ty that fixed it.
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13:57<jmcnaught>DevEd: thanks. If it's easier "journalctl -b | nc 9999" will put the whole journal for the current boot only into a paste
13:58<DevEd>can't do that, no internet on the host machine
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14:00<jmcnaught>DevEd: no ethernet available?
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14:02<DevEd>not where i have the machine set up
14:03<jmcnaught>If you can get ethernet going or copy the journalctl output to a USB stick to pastebin from another machine then people here can help you look for problems in the logs.
14:04<DevEd>anyway, journalctl output (note that i have censored the SSID):
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14:05<DevEd>(ended up doing the "copy output to usb stick" approach)
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14:09<jmcnaught>DevEd: does KDE network manager repeatedly ask you to re-enter the password?
14:11<DevEd>and before you ask, i'm certain i entered the correct password (i triple checked)
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14:16<jmcnaught>DevEd: yeah this is something different, I just watched the journal while connecting to a network with the wrong password and there would be explicit "wrong key" messages if it were the wrong password
14:17<jmcnaught>DevEd: "Dec 18 13:56:36 devrig NetworkManager[561]: <info> [1639853796.5710] device (wlp5s0): state change: config -> need-auth (reason 'none', sys-iface-state: 'managed')" from your journal paste, the reason 'none' is 'supplicant-disconnect' when I enter the wrong password
14:20<DevEd>so what does this mean for me?
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14:22<jmcnaught>DevEd: I would use a search engine to see if others have gotten the error I mentioned, or other lines like "Dec 18 13:55:38 devrig wpa_supplicant[577]: wlp5s0: CTRL-EVENT-SSID-TEMP-DISABLED id=0 ssid="xxxxxx" auth_failures=1 duration=10 reason=CONN_FAILED"
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14:31<userT>Is the apt whole program/command kind of just a "wrapper" for apt-get, apt-cache, and others?
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14:33<nr0q_radio>what do you get if you run apt moo
14:34-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*@] by debchange
14:34<userT>apt what?
14:34<nr0q_radio>apt moo
14:34<userT>what's that for?
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14:39<DevEd>got wi-fi working!
14:39<DevEd>the solution was to change my wi-fi backend from wpa-supplicant to iwd
14:39<sney>... the actual answer was that they're all different utilities that use libapt-pkg6.0, none of them is a 'wrapper' for the other, but I guess userT got what they wanted with the cow tangent o_O
14:41<jmcnaught>DevEd: nice!
14:41<nr0q_radio>sney :P
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14:42<DevEd>this just in: konqueror sucks ass
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14:45<nr0q_radio>i'm also a big fan of `cowsay`
14:45<sney>dselect: moo
14:45<dselect>mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you could be too; join us all! type apt-get moo; aplay /usr/lib/libreoffice/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav
14:46<Nachtwolke>uhh ok
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14:46<sney>hi Nachtwolke, pardon the tangent, do you have a debian question?
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15:05<Wulf>How can I convert one ore multiple JPEGs into pdf? "convert foo.jpeg foo.pdf" no longer works with some policy error.
15:06<somiaj>modify /etc/ImageMagick-6/policy.xml and change the policy for .pdf
15:06<Wulf>somiaj: isn't it there for a good reason?
15:06<somiaj>due to possible security concerns, by default convert disables both reading and writing .pdf's
15:06<somiaj>It is just a strong default, I have personally modified it
15:07<somiaj>if you want to use convert to read/write .pdf files, you have to modify it. This is more meant for say a webserver that would automatically convert .pdf's uploaded to it
15:07<somiaj>as long as you trust the .pdf, you should be fine
15:07<somiaj>I think running this locally you'll be fine. You can revert the policy after you are done if you want too
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15:09<aloo_shu>does debian have any stats wrt proportion of desktop users to server users
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15:10<Wulf>somiaj: guess reverting it back would be fine.
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15:10<Wulf>aloo_shu: there is popcon.
15:10<bremner>aloo_shu: you could make some inferences from popcon data (i.e. how many have X / Wayland installed), but it would take some work
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15:11<Wulf>aloo_shu: please let us know the results. My estimate (based on nothing) is: 90% of installations are server, 10% are desktop.
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15:12<Wulf>otoh, perhaps more desktop users than server users have popcon enabled.
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15:12<somiaj>though also realize this is going to be skewed due to vms/data centers, a deskop user will install a few machines, while server admins often install hundereds of vms
15:13<deved>hello again
15:13<sney>also, does every container/vm count as a "server user"? that would easily outpace everything else
15:13<deved>wouldn't you know it, as soon as I reboot suddenly wifi stops working again
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15:13<DevEd>same error as before
15:14<Wulf>I've currently got 3 desktops running debian (plus 2 VMs?). And 2 servers, several docker containers. And LOTS of virtual machines at work.
15:14<somiaj>Wulf: For a desktop system used primarally by you, I wouldn't worry about enabling .pdf with convert.
15:14<Wulf>somiaj: I worry a lot. I might download+process a file containing malware.
15:15<Wulf>Other question about convert: How to tell it to not modify my jpeg image and simply stuff it into the pdf?
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15:15<somiaj>I guess I wouldn't worry about malware using convert, once it has local access there are other tools to exploit. But that is just me
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15:16<aloo_shu>I would count VMs according to what's in them each, and the host, on the server side, as a 1st idea
15:16<somiaj>maybe use latex to create a document or libreoffice and embed the jpegs might be more ot you liking
15:16<somiaj>aloo_shu: popcon won't be able to tell the difference though
15:16<somiaj>it only knows that machine X installed package Y
15:17<earendel>i would have suggested to convert the jpgs to something else first, becasue the pdf will be produced by convert. so if, the malicious payload is inside your jpgs.
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15:27<aloo_shu>wouldn't that scenario speak for hardening the underlying pdf library
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15:29<Wulf>aloo_shu: that would be great. But PDF is a horrible mess. One would have to write a new library in a safe programming language. Not sure if anyone did that yet.
15:30<somiaj>It appears this is mostly done to prevent unknown vulnerabilities coming from third party software, such as ghostscript (which did have a big vuln some time back)
15:30<Wulf>imagemagic is a mess too, imo. Why would a graphics library need configuration or a policy?
15:30<somiaj>So it isn't that .pdf are inheritally going to be flawed, it is that allowing this pushes concerns to other stuff outside of imagemagick
15:31<somiaj>Wulf: because it is commonly used on servers and automatically runs on random stuff uploaded by untrusted users.
15:31<somiaj>well on places that configure it to do so, so better to be safe.
15:31<Wulf>somiaj: if it was safe to use, it wouldn't need a policy.
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15:32<aloo_shu>that's a bit circular
15:32<somiaj>It is hard to talk about safe without having some sort of threat model, and a desktop users threat model is way different than that of a server.
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15:33<Wulf>somiaj: it's not really different. Untrusted files are processed. And it a file succeeds in exploiting the system, it's very bad.
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15:34<somiaj>so you are taking random untrusted images and wanting to put them into a .pdf using convert? I personally turned it on to work with images I created.
15:34<mushroom>hi, I would like to know how secure is the debian install iso compared to "corporate" distros like Ubuntu in which isos are created by known people working in the company. How can the public check that debian isos don't contain malware? thx! :)
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15:35<somiaj>mushroom: ubuntu has been known to have malware in the past, so putting trust in some company may not be the best decision either.
15:35<aloo_shu>yep 'unknown vuln from 3rd party sw' is *very* general and could be made fit anything - is i agemagick allowing random backends?
15:35<somiaj>aloo_shu: in this case they are talking about ghostscript which has had a few fairly grave vulns
15:36<mushroom>somiaj: but as debian devs are anonymous, I wonder how people can know that install isos are free of malware
15:36<Wulf>mushroom: they're not anonymous, they're real people.
15:36<sney>due to the... academic.. nature of how debian works it would be hard for a conspiracy to take root among the developers
15:36<somiaj>mushroom: Debian is open, all the source is available, users look at such things, if anything is found it is reported as a bug report.
15:37<Wulf>mushroom: if malware makes it into some upstream package and nobody notices, it's likely to make it into both debian and ubuntu. And other distros.
15:39<mushroom>Wulf: I understand, but at least packages are tested during some time and have a signature that people can check so they know they have not been modified. But I don't any verification process for isos, do they require trust in the team that create them? (in the sense that they are impossible to check by other people)
15:39<Wulf>mushroom: If you use any computers, assume the worst and take precautions. E.g. look out for unusual network traffic.
15:40<Wulf>mushroom: I'm hoping that debian ISOs use reproducable builds already. Then you could rebuild the ISO yourself and see if it matches the "official" byte by byte.
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15:43<mushroom>wulf thx! ideally, I would like there is an open source install application which download packages from the stable archive and adds the extra stuff for the install iso
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15:44<aloo_shu>sounds a lot like how jigdo does it
15:44<mushroom>so the iso creation itself it's done from scratch from open source software by the users
15:45<mushroom>aloo_shu don't know jigdo, I will check it, thx :)
15:45<Wulf>mushroom: I don't use ISOs much. Most of my systems are installed through PXE or created from images.
15:46<mushroom>wulf sounds good, I have to learn how to do it
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15:47<mushroom>(I mean pxe install)
15:48<aloo_shu>security wasn't the primary reason for jigdo, but as a side effect, you'd get to signature-check every single package as it's being dl'ed from repo, rather than checksumming an entire iso image - and it would work for random pkg constellations aka custom isos
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15:49<mushroom>cool :)
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16:00<Sqrt{Not}>(they left already, but the .iso images do all have published crypto hashes)
16:02<somiaj>I think they were more conserned about the creation process (at least my read)
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16:20<gulamtcho>Please help me. I am stucked with setting up on my system 2 OS, dual boot
16:21<gulamtcho>I already have Linux Debian and would like to have Win10
16:21<gulamtcho>But there are issues with "Partition Tables". MBR, GPT and msdos .. I do not have clue
16:22<gulamtcho>Someone knows how I should have set up the Partition Table? So that I can install Win10
16:23<sney>windows and linux both support gpt and mbr/msdos types. just make a new partition for windows, boot the windows installer, and let it install. then boot your debian livecd and fix the bootloader.
16:24<sney>since you already have a disk with an OS on it, you don't need to worry about partition table types, just use whichever one you already have.
16:25<sney>if you want to see which kind you are using, you can do 'sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdX' (where sdX is your disk, usually sda) and look at the Disklabel type: line
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16:25<gulamtcho>sney: mbr and msdos is that the same?
16:26<sney>in terms of partition tables, yes
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16:28<gulamtcho>OK, that makes sense. That was maybe the reason why I had to set my USBStick with the MBR Option
16:29<gulamtcho>otherwise the setup does not start at all
16:29<gulamtcho>So when I do it again then a message will popup. Says: You have maximum partitions reched
16:32<gulamtcho>I do not know how to fix that. Internet researches did not brought me further
16:33<gulamtcho>Or actually I think I have to convert it to GPT
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16:34<sney>you will need to make room for the windows installation
16:34<sney>that has nothing to do with partition type
16:38<towo`>maybe it has
16:39<towo`>mbr = only 4 partitons possible
16:39<earendel>gulamtcho: the number of primary partitions is limited within mbr/msdos .. i dont remember exactly to how many.. its a lot more for gpt tho
16:39<towo`>gpt = way mpore partitions possible
16:40<Sqrt{Not}>only 4 primary partitions, but you could use the 4th partition, to make extra extended partitions on an msdos mbr partition table. 4 is not a hard limit
16:40<earendel>gulamtcho: converting msdos to gpt should be possible using diskpart.
16:40<towo`>3 primary + 1 extended is even 4
16:40<gulamtcho>sney: there is already room of about 60GB
16:41<Sqrt{Not}>read about it. the extended can the create many more partitions.
16:41<earendel>you can have logical ones in the extended partition.
16:41<towo`>logical partitons are no real partitions
16:41<sney>gulamtcho: ok, do you have 4 partitions already on that disk?
16:41<earendel>but not for installing windows.
16:41<gulamtcho>the Win10 install Windows shows me: 1 System, 1 Logical, 2 Primary
16:42<towo`>and if there always 4 primary partitions, it's hart to create an extended one
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16:42<Sqrt{Not}>but maybe easier than trashing a working debian install on that disk?
16:42<gulamtcho>1 System, - there is also stated: System reserved
16:43<Sqrt{Not}>gulamtcho, can you show us from linux what the partition table looks like?
16:43<gulamtcho>And when I convert it to GPT?
16:43<gulamtcho>yes with the command: parted -l?
16:43<earendel>gulamtcho: if there's still space on it, consider converting to gpt. will probably only work for efi setup. (booting install media with efi)
16:44<Sqrt{Not}>I worry that converting to GPT will mean you must re-install your linux?
16:44<gulamtcho>is it allowed to copy paste?
16:44<gulamtcho>I will try it :)
16:44<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: | pics/screenshots: or | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
16:45<earendel>you can still boot from mbr on efi.
16:45<earendel>erm on gpt
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16:46<somiaj>and you can boot efi from mbr, but it needs extra steps
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16:48<Sqrt{Not}>gulamtcho, there is one other important thing to remember about a dual-boot windows+linux machine -- it is the EVIL "fast startup" in windows 10. pay attention, remember what the robot will say here:
16:48<Sqrt{Not}>!fast boot
16:48<dpkg>Windows fast startup is enabled by default and will interfere with a dual-boot linux installation, and risks damaging the Windows filesystems during dual boot. Disable it with the instructions here: See this section of the bullseye installation guide:
16:50<gulamtcho>regarding "fast boot". It means I will install Win10, boot it and directly switch off the fast boot? Because I can not do it before I guess
16:50<Sqrt{Not}>gulamtcho, yes, exactly.
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16:51<spawacz>is there a way to request missing firmware to be added to nonfree repository?
16:51<spawacz>i can't find brcm43456 for my wifi
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16:52<sney>spawacz: you can check upstream at and ask for the debian package to be updated if it's there,
16:52<sney>but if it isn't then it's likely broadcom has decided not to distribute those files, and you'll need to go some other route.
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16:56<gulamtcho>earendel: I do not understand that, - boot from mbr on efi
16:57<earendel>gulamtcho: i meant on gpt partitions.
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16:59<gulamtcho>Ah OK, I have currently a GPT USB-Stick whereas I cannot start the Install Process
17:00<gulamtcho>so I have to go first to BIOS to check if UEFI is supported, right?
17:00<earendel>you have to boot from the install media in efi mode.
17:00<gulamtcho>how can I do that
17:01<earendel>you can change boot options in your bios
17:02<earendel>sometimes old bios boot is labeled "legacy boot" or something. if you disable it, you will probably boot in efi mode.
17:02<earendel>but you will notice as windows will complain during installation.
17:03<gulamtcho>I found this one:
17:03<Sqrt{Not}>gulamtcho, before you do any drastic changes to your hard drive, do you want to keep you existing linux install? do you have backups of it?
17:04<gulamtcho>I have performed it like that with the message: maximum of partitions reached....
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17:04<earendel>but then it was not a gpt parition
17:04<gulamtcho>I have a backup. I installed Linux Bullseye some days ago ;/ and now maybe reinstall .... whaaaa
17:05<gulamtcho>I guess I have the AMI BIOS system
17:05<Sqrt{Not}>OK, good :)
17:06<Sqrt{Not}>(i mean good about the backup)
17:06<gulamtcho>earendel: it is actually now gpt partitioned (USB Stick)
17:07<gulamtcho>can I check it inside linux, to verify
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17:08<earendel>you could have installed it without gpt, if you chose to use another disk to install to. that gpt would have just allowed for another primary partition on that (other?) disk
17:08<earendel>just run windows setup. in case you are sure you want to install windows.
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17:14<gulamtcho>When I put the USBStick inside Laptop it popsup the message: ..UEFI_NTFS.. and the name of the stick
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17:17<revolt>hi there
17:17<revolt>my debian server recently hangs up
17:17<revolt>how check what causes this issue ?
17:18<sney>what are the specs of your server? is it a vm or baremetal? what's it serving? can you reproduce the hangs or does it seem random?
17:19<gulamtcho>what would be the next step for me? Change whole system to GPT reinstall Linux and then Win10?
17:21<revolt>sney:i did not understand
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17:21<revolt>its not vm its an installed distro,
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17:23<sney>revolt: the point is, "my server hangs up" is too little information. give details, and maybe we can help.
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17:23<gulamtcho>does the picture of my partitions helps
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17:25<gulamtcho>I guess I have to difficult case
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17:30<spawacz>is it possible that a pc is too slow for a serial connection with 1500000 baud?
17:31<spawacz>im dropping characters, but i used this usb serial for lower baud without issues
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17:36<Wulf>spawacz: yes, that's possible
17:36<Wulf>spawacz: or your connection isn't clean
17:36<Wulf>spawacz: dropping while receiving or sending?
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17:39<spawacz>i tried changing with stty -F but it resets after i send first command
17:40<Wulf>spawacz: does your usb-serial converter got an internal buffer?
17:41<Wulf>spawacz: make sure to call read with large buffer size and don't do a lot of processing between reads.
17:41<spawacz>i have no clue how to check that; the first time i used serial console as 2 weeks ago ;p
17:41<spawacz>it drops even 5 lines of text
17:41<Wulf>spawacz: vendor of your converter?
17:41<spawacz>i mean, misses parts
17:42<spawacz>it's official from pine64 store
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17:42<Wulf>and consider using hardware flow control
17:43<spawacz>could you give me some pointers
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17:46<Wulf>spawacz: data sheet sounds like it does have some buffer, but doesn't mention the size.
17:46<Wulf>spawacz: consider getting something from FTDI
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17:48<spawacz>is there a way to change the default baud?
17:48-!-mith__ [~mith@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:48<spawacz>the board boots with 1500000, is it hardcoded or configurable?
17:49-!-pert [] has quit []
17:49<Wulf>spawacz: I assume it can be configured inside the board's software.
17:50<Wulf>spawacz: you didn't mention which board you use yet, I think
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17:54<spawacz>i read that this connector supports custom baudrates (and it works with other boards that use 115200 for example)
17:54<spawacz>so i need to find out how to convince linux to start it with lower baud
17:55<Wulf>spawacz: and sound like it's hard coded in a ROM. It might be possible to change the reprogram/replace the ROM.
17:55<Wulf>spawacz: once linux is running, it should be easy to change the speed.
17:55<spawacz>i changed it but it keeps resetting
17:56<spawacz>stty -F /dev/ttyS2 115200, then i confirm that it chaned
17:56<spawacz>the first command i type makes it reset to 1500000
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17:57<sney>revolt: do not private message people without asking. Keep all questions in the channel.
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17:57<Wulf>spawacz: that's on the rockboard device? That's the linux console? Try setting a kernel parameter at boot time.
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17:58<spawacz>it works
17:58<spawacz>not your suggestion but other
17:58<spawacz>so i was connected over wifi and serial at the same time
17:58<spawacz>i used the wifi connection to set baud etc
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17:59<spawacz>it turned out that if i pasted the baud changing command on the serial as first command then it works
17:59<spawacz>and is not reset
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19:02<Urk>Anyone interested in submitting an RFP to bugs so that Gammy can be adapted by Debian? I mentioned it on there, and it was promptly closed by Andrei.
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19:04<bremner>the bug was closed?
19:04<bremner>what bug #?
19:05<bremner>I doesn't make sense for someone else to file an RFP bug for a package they don't care about.
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19:08<Urk>I was told to file it in the bugs area in order to get someone's attention. Somiaj said to file it in bugs to get an RFP.
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19:09<bremner>if you can't tell us the bug #, we can't help you
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19:14<somiaj>My guess is you didn't file the bug correctly as per the instructions, the last instance I saw you share was missing required information
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19:17<somiaj>Urk: what was the bug number?
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19:18<zoke>I believe this is the one
19:18<Urk>somiaj: Bug#1001875
19:19<somiaj>Urk: You didn't file the bug against the correct package. You didn't provide the required information such as a descirption of the package, a link to upstream, and so forth.
19:19<sney>rfp bugs are filed against wnpp, as everyone in this channel and every frp example tells you
19:19<Urk>somiaj: What was missing? Andrei's comments indicated confusion in the sense that he thought it was a package already adapted.
19:19<sney>you need to actually follow the instructions when you do this
19:19<Urk>sney: I am not sure how to do that.
19:19<dpkg>Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>.
19:19<Urk>I followed instructions, but didn't find a prompt for designating an RFP vs a regular bug.
19:19<somiaj>the info we gave you from the bot last time clearly states what you need to do.
19:20<Urk>somiaj: I will try doing it again.
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19:22<somiaj>There is even a link for what a good RFP bug should look like
19:22<somiaj> if you would have read the page the bot linked
19:22<judd>Bug in wnpp (open): «RFP: xournalpp -- hand note taking software»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2019-04-14; last modified: 2021-07-06.
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20:35<Wulf>What's a good software to create full mirrors of debian's repos? I need to keep multiple versions / snapshots of the repos, need the original signatures and installer files too.
20:36<somiaj>Wulf: there are various tools, I think the offical mirrors use some scripts you can get, but there is also apt-mirror, debmirror, things kinda change what is prefered
20:37<somiaj> <-- official docs including links to ftpsync script to keep your mirror in sync
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20:37<somiaj> -- some other tools mentioned there. Such as debmirror and apt-mirror
20:38<Wulf>somiaj: thanks
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20:40<coc0nut>how come python has no repo like brave-browser vscode etc. would be much easier than installing 3.10 from source :p
20:40<somiaj>Wulf: note, apt-cacher-ng is actually quite useful for local 'mirrors'. It basically is a proxy that caches only the packages you regurally use, so no need to maintain a mirror
20:41<somiaj>coc0nut: you'll have to ask the python maintainers why they don't build custom .deb's for debian. Though really this sounds like a bad idea
20:41<Wulf>somiaj: it's nice, but I'd rely on my internet and a working upstream mirror
20:41-!-Urk [~Oink@2601:647:5c80:2730::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:41<coc0nut>i asked in the #python channel just a minute ago
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20:42<somiaj>coc0nut: Problem is debian's packages depend on python as a core tool, and changing the core version of python is a bad idea in debian, so having access to a .deb to change the core version could cause lots of issues
20:42<somiaj>coc0nut: please don't cross post then
20:42<coc0nut>yeah , thats the answer then!
20:42<somiaj>coc0nut: It is just safest to build a local version of python if you need a newer version and run it in a python virtual enviorment.
20:43<coc0nut>they said it would be a lifetime project to make that for all linux distros. and they also said it was up to the distro maintainers to do it
20:43<somiaj>Now providing some package or precompiled python binaries to help with this may be useful, but I think they shoudln't be provided in .deb files that install things on the syste
20:43<somiaj>Yea, that is understandable. I have had decent sucess building python, installing it in $HOME, and then running virtual enviorments if I really needed a newer version
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20:51<Sqrt{Not}>Wha? I thought that python incompatible version change was supposed to be a one time thing, way back when. It looks like now it will be a regular thing? Each new point version incompatible with every other version? I'll stick with perl
20:53<somiaj>Sqrt{Not}: Maybe it is better than it use to be, I just don't trust that changing the python version won't cause issues in something.
20:54<Karlton>a python3.10 upgrade will specifically cause many package to fail to compile without a patch
21:00<Karlton>a big change was in the deprecation of distutils, which was just warning before 3.10 but since 3.10 it's now an error and will cause a build to fail
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21:08<sney>there were some hiccups in testing when python migrated from 3.8 to 3.9. the python scripts themselves didn't need any sweeping changes afaik, but other things integrating python did
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21:32<apappu>Hello I am new to Debian
21:32<apappu>I just installed Debian nvidia drivers from non free repo
21:32<apappu>I am not able to get my second monitor to work
21:33<apappu>any help??
21:33<somiaj>apappu: what desktop are you using?
21:33<apappu>gnome debian 11
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21:33<apappu>please let me know any details
21:33<somiaj>I assume you have tried to use the gnome monitor setting tools? Does it not show your second monintor at all?
21:34<apappu>I will be happy to share as I am new to this
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21:34<somiaj>what is the output of 'xrandr -q', put that output at
21:34<apappu>nvidia-settings does not show the second monitor
21:35<somiaj>ahh you are using nvidia-settings. Also with gnome you might be using wayland, not xorg, so what I suggest won't work for wayland.
21:35<somiaj>I would try to use the gnome control panel, not nvidia-settings. Also is this some optimus setup (intel + nvidia combo gpu)?
21:35<apappu>i just posted it
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21:36<apappu>yes i have intel + nvidia
21:36<apappu>what should I do to switch to to xorg??
21:36<somiaj>share the link for your post
21:38<apappu>I tried downloading the nvidia drivers from the nvidia site the 470.x version
21:38<apappu>still same issue
21:39<somiaj>you don't want to install the nvidia drivers from on debian systems, this can cause issues, though this is indepdnent of what you are experincing
21:40<apappu>ok so what is the way frward
21:40<somiaj>well I can see both the monitors in xrandr. Have you tried the gnome control panel for this?
21:40<apappu>I dont have anything in bios to disable intel GPU
21:41<apappu>gnome control pannel is not showing any monitors
21:41<apappu>I can paste the screen shot if that helps
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21:44<somiaj>I can see both the screens there, unsure why gnome isn't seeing it
21:44<apappu>how to go back to xorg
21:44<apappu>or how tpo remove wayland
21:46<somiaj>try: xrandr --display eDP-1 --mode 3840x2160 --left-of DP-1
21:46<somiaj>replace --left-of with (--right-of, --above, --below as appopriate)
21:47<apappu>eDP-1 is thelaptop display
21:47<apappu>I have 2 esternal monitors
21:47<nighthawk>do you have both monitors hooked up to the same video card or two different ones?
21:47<apappu>i am tryng to get the second external monitor to turn on
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21:47<apappu>sorry for the confusion
21:47<somiaj>well you left that out, I heard two mointors, I saw two monitors
21:47<apappu>my bad
21:48<somiaj>according to that output you do not have the second monitor attached to the main gpu
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21:48<somiaj>output of 'xrandr --listproviders'
21:48<zoke>apappu: to use xorg instead of wayland uncomment 'WaylandEnable=false' in /etc/gdm3/daemon.conf (assuming you're using gdm as login manager/greeter)
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21:50<somiaj>okay, you ahve two gpus, and the scond monitor is plugged into your second gpu
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21:50<somiaj>so first we have to tell xrandr to use the second provider
21:51<apappu>please see mywayland configuration
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21:53<apappu>"so first we have to tell xrandr to use the second provider" how to do that??
21:53<somiaj>well I'm not quite sure, I see both providers have 7 outputs
21:53<apappu>I dont know where the number 7 is coming from
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21:54<apappu>I have 2 external monitors connected to my dell docking station via
21:54<apappu>I am totally confused
21:54<apappu>yes my laptop has intel as well as nvidia GPU
21:55<jmcnaught>Laptops with Intel and NVIDIA GPUs (branded as Optimus) sometimes have outputs that are only wired to the discrete GPU.
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21:57<apappu>options nvidia-drm modeset=1
21:57<apappu>what does this mean
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21:58<apappu>I dont need prime
21:58<apappu>I am good with using NVIDIA GPU all the time
21:58<apappu>2 external monitors are very useful
21:59<apappu>let me see if there is any way to bypass the wiring to GPU only in BIOS
21:59<apappu>I will reboot and check
21:59<apappu>thank you for helping appreciate it
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22:01<spammy>ah yes prime, I know you, my old nemesis
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22:12<jcbjoe2021>can i pipe apt-listchanges to a file or no? i upgraded some packges on my vps (bullesye) and i saw some changes but it just scrolled up and i couldn't stop it
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22:23<Sqrt{Not}>jcbjoe2021, yes, but see the man page ... you probably want the option "-f text"
22:24<sney>I thought it outputted to a pager by default anyway
22:24<Sqrt{Not}>well, they asked about putting it in a file
22:24<jcbjoe2021>what should i do? is there a file?
22:25<sney>each debian package puts its changelog in /usr/share/doc/$packagename
22:26<sney>as for recalling the exact list that apt-listchanges tried to show you, I'm not sure, maybe the man page has some hints
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22:27<tsundoku>I have a somewhat idiosyncratic /etc/network/interfaces that I am trying to figure out how to translate to systemd-networkd. Any chance someone might be interested in looking at it to tell me whether I'm doing something dumb?
22:33<tsundoku>in /etc/network/interfaces, I define two VLANs, each with the same vlan-raw-device, and then define a bridge with one of the VLANs as its bridge_ports, and that's basically it. I cannot find *anything* illustrating how to do this in systemd-networkd, Network Manager, or anything else.
22:34<sney>#systemd on libera might know the secret sauce
22:34<sney>I think most of us in #debian are still using ifupdown
22:34<tsundoku>I like ifupdown myself, I just have reasons to want to figure out how to do what I'm doing in ways that are not Debian-specific
22:35<spammy>I'm just trying to keep afloat between old and new methods of interface'isms
22:35<somiaj>trying back during the week can often get a bigger audience and maybe someone who is more familar with networkd too
22:36<tsundoku>one thing that doesn't help is that the systemd-networkd syntax appears to have changed in the not too distant past
22:39<somiaj>I would try to use the docs at for .link units
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22:40<somiaj>actually guess that is more for interfaces, might have to link that with networkd
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22:41<tsundoku>here it is in sanitized form if anyone wants to look
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22:43<jcbjoe2021>sney: i see it. changelog.gz something
22:43<somiaj>yea, every packages changelog is in /usr/share/doc/packagename
22:44<sney>you can read gz changelogs with zless
22:44<jkc>tsundoku: Why are you masking internal IPs?
22:45<tsundoku>is it a problem?
22:45<tsundoku>I didn't see them as relevant to the issue.
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22:46<jkc>tsundoku: It's pointless. IPs are not sensitive information.
22:46<tsundoku>ok, fine. I really didn't think about it too hard
22:46<jkc>And if you're asking for someone to help you, you don't get to decide what is and isn't relevant.
22:46<tsundoku>oh my god
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22:46<tsundoku>if you wanted to look at it and you think the IPs may be relevant, you could just ask and I could repost with them
22:47<tsundoku>I don't need a stern lecture
22:47<tsundoku>"you don't get to decide" etc. etc.
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22:59<jcbjoe2021>somiaj: looks like if you zcat changelog or whatever package it's better then apt-listchanges
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23:00<somiaj>jcbjoe2021: better is subjective, each has their usses
23:01<somiaj>apt-listchanges is useful to let you know the recent changelog enteries on what you are upgrading, the changelog is there to be able to search for specific things
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 19 00:00:52 2021