| --- | Log | opened Mon Dec 20 00:00:53 2021 |
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| 00:02 | <somiaj> | lhvf: Not sure what you are asking, yes snap was created by canoical, but it is open source, and the actual packages are made by otehrs outside of canonical (often upstream devs) |
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| 00:09 | <sney> | somiaj: lhvf is not asking anything but trying to "contribute" to a discussion from earlier |
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| 00:17 | <lhvf> | sney: somiaj I seen some day written in some in Portuguese idiom website some complaint about the "Free Software Philosophy" of Snap, but at the moment, don't turns out any real criticism from mine part for Canonical and/or Snap. I'll search to deal with serious analytics about these sensitive subject (no "mal informed" talk / mal-intentioned" wanted carried conversation from mine part, either.. ) |
| 00:23 | <sney> | lhvf: somiaj mentioned that snaps are 3rd party, which is true. there is no other recent discussion of snap. I invite you, again, to actually read the discussion in the channel, and keep your interjections useful and on-topic. |
| 00:26 | <lhvf> | I couldn't understood quite good these two websites examples for the subject: < https://hackaday.com/2020/06/24/whats-the-deal-with-snap-packages/ >; < https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4fttr9/so_is_ubuntus_new_snappy_packaging_basically_a/ > . |
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| 00:33 | <somiaj> | lhvf: When it comes to Debian, snap is available to users who want/need to install software from outside of debian. Though it is then up to those users to trust the creators of the snaps. |
| 00:34 | <somiaj> | It provides a way to get a pre bundeld program with all the libs it needs to run that has been tested by its creators, vs having the user download the source and build/maintain/etc. |
| 00:35 | <somiaj> | appimage and flatpack are two other alteratives for this. Though if all the software you want/need is in debian, there will be no reason to need snap/flatpak/etc |
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| 00:38 | <zoke> | regarding snaps I believe the "snap-store" is proprietary software by canonical |
| 00:39 | <zoke> | the rest is open source iirc |
| 00:39 | <somiaj> | And from my understanding someone could create their own snap-store, this hasn't been done so basically this gives canoical control over what is available. |
| 00:39 | <sussudio> | unlike the schappy store, which just has cartoon crocodile-related stuff. |
| 00:39 | <zoke> | but they have left QA to the uploaders afaik |
| 00:40 | <somiaj> | Yea, I think they just decide who to trust, beyond that it can be a bit like the wild west |
| 00:40 | <zoke> | I seem to recall some issue with miners embedded in certain snaps some time ago |
| 00:41 | <zoke> | https://fossbytes.com/malware-script-reported-ubuntu-snap-store/ |
| 00:42 | <zoke> | I for one stear clear of snaps, flatpacks and appimages |
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| 00:47 | <nr0q_radio> | I do the same for more of the reason that I don't trust developers that can't keep up with the current version of a lib or runtime. why run an appimage or snap that is still using years old libs with potential vulnerabilities |
| 00:47 | <somiaj> | They have their use. But they do push trust out so one needs to consider each snap independently. |
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| 00:49 | <nr0q_radio> | yup, there's a couple I would use if they cut off their other packages, anymore I just grab their source and build it myself, then complain back when it doesn't compile because my libc is 3-4 years too new |
| 00:50 | <zoke> | source > snap any day |
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| 00:51 | <zoke> | bundling a shared library kind of defeats the whole purpouse of a shared lib |
| 00:52 | <nr0q_radio> | yup |
| 00:53 | <mason> | The thing that bothers me most about that distribution method is that so far I haven't seen that there's a consistent/reliable way to get corresponding source code. |
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| 00:55 | <zoke> | reinventing static binaries with some extra overhead :p |
| 00:56 | <zoke> | also... electron applications are kind of in the same boat |
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| 00:57 | <nr0q_radio> | lol, I'm a developer of a NWJS app (basically electron) and I'm releasing.debs for the app and nwjs separately from each other |
| 00:57 | <enigma9o7[m]> | are any electron applicationsi in debian repos? |
| 00:57 | <nr0q_radio> | so my app has nwjs as a dependency |
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| 00:59 | <zoke> | nr0q_radio: so not a bundled browser and all that redundant crap then like most others? |
| 01:00 | <nr0q_radio> | nwjs is node J's+Chromium so yes but that's in its own package separate from my html/JavaScript |
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| 01:01 | <zoke> | so there is someone doing it correctly :p |
| 01:02 | <zoke> | but... still got little love for web-applications |
| 01:02 | <nr0q_radio> | I try, I picture nwjs as being to my app what gtk or .net to more traditional apps that rely on runtime/frameworks |
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| 01:03 | <nr0q_radio> | what it does gain me is a single codebase that works equally well on Win, Mac and Linux though |
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| 01:04 | <zoke> | I see the appeal from a developers pov when multi-platform is required... But it still feels dirty |
| 01:06 | <nr0q_radio> | yup, gives a little abstraction from having to write 4versions of the same function because OS's are so different |
| 01:07 | <nr0q_radio> | even though windows has been giving us ulcers with their whole, let's put the whole user directory in onedrive crap |
| 01:08 | <zoke> | guess I'm fortunate enough to only have to bother with linux as a target |
| 01:09 | <nr0q_radio> | yeah 2/3 of my user base is windows, the rest is everything else, and we have a request for BSD support o_O |
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| 01:10 | <zoke> | what's the sw? |
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| 01:11 | <nr0q_radio> | GridTrackerl, An Amateur Radio WSJT companion app |
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| 01:13 | <nr0q_radio> | open layers for the mapping, lots of compact and quickly updating data, sending data out and getting it in from just about everywhere, networking and websockets |
| 01:13 | <nr0q_radio> | half million+ lines of code |
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| 01:14 | <zoke> | cool |
| 01:15 | <nr0q_radio> | goal is to get everything dotted and crossed so it'll pass all the tests for inclusion in to Debian |
| 01:16 | <zoke> | I wish you the best of luck with that |
| 01:17 | <nr0q_radio> | thanks, I have a really fantastic team, we're all volunteers that take out of our radio time to work on it |
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| 02:39 | <user> | hello |
| 02:39 | -!- | user is now known as Guest8915 |
| 02:39 | <Guest8915> | hi |
| 02:39 | <somiaj> | greetings |
| 02:39 | <Guest8915> | what is IRC up to these days |
| 02:39 | <Guest8915> | been a long time |
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| 02:41 | <somiaj> | It still has a decent open source community on it. This channel is mostly for debian support, but I can point you to more social chanels if you prefer |
| 02:42 | <Guest8915> | thank you I would really appreciate that |
| 02:42 | <Guest8915> | I am actually a whistleblower who is being attacked / censored off clearnet, where would I go to find interesting people to talk to? |
| 02:46 | <somiaj> | !chat |
| 02:46 | <dpkg> | This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/ |
| 02:46 | <somiaj> | there are two channels here, if you want to know more about this network there is #oftc |
| 02:46 | <Guest8915> | you got it sorry |
| 02:46 | <Guest8915> | thank you |
| 02:48 | -!- | Guest8915 is now known as register |
| 02:49 | -!- | register is now known as JusticE |
| 02:52 | <JusticE> | can you help, how do I register my name |
| 02:52 | <raven523> | see https://libera.chat/guides/registration |
| 02:53 | <raven523> | wait, that's for the other network |
| 02:53 | <raven523> | /msg nickserv help register |
| 02:53 | <JusticE> | isnt it just something like /msg nickserv etc |
| 02:53 | <JusticE> | I did that I dont get it :( |
| 02:53 | <JusticE> | just give example please |
| 02:53 | <JusticE> | and I can copy |
| 02:53 | <JusticE> | I wish I could explain... I dont think my tor browser is secure |
| 02:54 | <raven523> | enter that command where you enter text for chat, then look in your client for a reply from nickserv |
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| 02:55 | -!- | mezzo is "mezzo" on #debian #yuming |
| 02:55 | <JusticE> | lol |
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| 02:56 | <raven523> | I'm entering an extra / at the start to prevent it from running, like //msg nickserv help register |
| 02:56 | -!- | arifendronugroho [~arifendro@114.10.5.118] has quit [Quit: leaving] |
| 02:57 | <raven523> | also see https://www.oftc.net/Services/ |
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| 02:59 | -!- | ph0b0s is "ph0b0s" on #debian |
| 03:00 | <somiaj> | You can ask in #oftc for support to register on this network |
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| 03:01 | <JusticE> | it didnt work |
| 03:01 | <JusticE> | /msg nickserv register (username) (password) (email) ?? |
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| 03:03 | <jcbjoe2021> | JusticE: type that in a windows where nobody can see it. You can accidentally type it here and everyone will see your username and email if you mess up |
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| 03:04 | <raven523> | first try "/msg nickserv help register" then look in the other windows, tabs, or buffers in your client to find where nickserv's reply is |
| 03:05 | <jcbjoe2021> | JusticE: we all been there I started irc like in 98 O_o nickserv been the same ever since |
| 03:06 | <JusticE> | Thank you I forgot. I was around then |
| 03:06 | <JusticE> | :) |
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| 03:40 | <jcbjoe2021> | my first irc client was Pirch98 |
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| 03:40 | <jcbjoe2021> | in college :P |
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| 04:57 | <popsmoke> | I have installed signal-desktop using snap, it went good. now im unable to find/launch it. any clue ?\ |
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| 05:19 | <popsmoke> | is this channel dead ? |
| 05:20 | <azeem> | no |
| 05:21 | <azeem> | using snap is not really on-brand though, so it might take a while for somebody to react |
| 05:21 | <SignumFera> | Why not use the signal-desktop deb repo? |
| 05:22 | <tarzeau> | popsmoke: snap run telegram-desktop ? |
| 05:22 | <SignumFera> | Nevermind me. I am using the ubuntu ppa |
| 05:22 | <azeem> | I don't think telegram and signal are federated? |
| 05:23 | <SignumFera> | Sorry, I will hop off, I read telegram not signal |
| 05:23 | <tarzeau> | azeem: oh of course signal-desktop then |
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| 05:25 | -!- | Mezz is "Mezz" on #llvm #redditprivacy #aqi-data-share #virt #debian-xfce #biz @#gemu #help #Qubes_OS #oftc #ceph #publiclab #moocows #freedombox #kvm #debian #packaging |
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| 05:42 | -!- | ftobich is "Fabio A. De Muzio Tobich" on #debian-cwb #debian-next #debian #debian-devel-br #debian-devel-changes |
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| 05:53 | <popsmoke> | tarzeau: bash: signal-desktop: command not found |
| 05:54 | <Allen> | I installed openssh. It runs only after a user logs in after a reboot. Have checked systemctl and init.rc. After a reboot, it is always inactive(dead), though I can use ssh and can enable it. |
| 05:54 | -!- | Brigo [~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has joined #debian |
| 05:54 | -!- | Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-next |
| 05:54 | <Allen> | pureftp and samba also runs only after a user logs in |
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| 05:55 | <sussudio> | Allen: do you have a question |
| 05:56 | <Allen> | I just want to enable openssh/pureftp/samba to run right after a reboot, without a user logging in. Thank you |
| 05:57 | <SignumFera> | popsmoke: The singal installation instructions on their website instructs you to install a deb package: https://paste.debian.net/1224152 |
| 05:58 | <SignumFera> | Allen: Have you tried to enabled the services? |
| 06:00 | <Allen> | SignumFera: yes, I can enable it (systemctl start or enable ssh) and it shows active, running. But reboot makes it not run. And I have to log in, then it runs by itself. |
| 06:02 | <popsmoke> | SignumFera: when i do the 'echo' line, it hangs |
| 06:04 | <SignumFera> | Did you do the echo line including the next, tee, line? |
| 06:05 | <SignumFera> | The \ and the ends tells bash to expect additional information on the next line by escaping the \n |
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| 06:06 | -!- | ibx2496 is "realname" on #postmarketos #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos-offtopic @#linuxmint #debian |
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| 06:10 | -!- | dselect is "dpkg backup readonly db" on #debian |
| 06:12 | <teresaejunior> | Hi! Any ideas on how to run `mail -Ssendwait` on Debian? |
| 06:12 | <teresaejunior> | With mailutils: `LC_ALL=C mail -S sendwait` -- mail: unrecognized option '-S'. `LC_ALL=C mail --set=sendwait=True` -- mail: unknown keyword `sendwait'. |
| 06:12 | <teresaejunior> | With bsd-mailx: "mail: invalid option -- 'S'". |
| 06:12 | <teresaejunior> | WHat happens is that systemd is killing my forked mail command, and KillMode=process is not recommended in the systemd manual. |
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| 06:20 | -!- | zamuro is "Romanes eunt domus" on @#debian-ve #debian |
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| 06:31 | <popsmoke> | any idea why it hands when i run this? https://paste.debian.net/1224157/ |
| 06:35 | -!- | pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 06:37 | <olet> | the second line you tell your shell that you have more lines for it |
| 06:38 | <olet> | in the same command |
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| 07:47 | -!- | Haudegen is "AP,,," on #security #debian.or.at #debian-next #debian |
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| 07:59 | -!- | rGr45 is "realname" on #debian #linuxmint #postmarketos-offtopic #postmarketos-devel #postmarketos |
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| 08:10 | -!- | TheSuperGeek is "TheSuperGeek" on #debian |
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| 08:17 | -!- | minimal is "minimal" on #debian #debian-raspberrypi #fdroid #ansible-community #alpine-reproducible #ifupdown-ng #s6 #musl-distros #musl #alpine-security #alpine-offtopic #alpine-linux #alpine-infra #alpine-docs #alpine-commits #alpine-cloud #alpine-devel |
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| 08:34 | <Tedesco> | hi, quick question: |
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| 08:34 | <Tedesco> | with dpkg --list | grep linux-image lists several versions of my kernel |
| 08:34 | <Tedesco> | but i can only see a couple of them in /boot |
| 08:35 | <jm_> | what's the question? |
| 08:35 | <Tedesco> | i cannot find the rest, is there a default directory where they are placed? |
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| 08:35 | <jm_> | what state are the packages in? |
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| 08:36 | <jm_> | the first two characters in dpkg output |
| 08:36 | <Tedesco> | the ones in boot ii, the other ones rc |
| 08:36 | <Tedesco> | i didn't notice that |
| 08:36 | <Tedesco> | what does it mean? |
| 08:36 | <zoke> | ii == installed |
| 08:36 | <jm_> | yeah that's it - rc means packages were removed but their config files are still left |
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| 08:37 | <Tedesco> | ok |
| 08:37 | <Tedesco> | thx |
| 08:37 | <zoke> | the header for dpkg --list has some more info on the states |
| 08:38 | <jm_> | indeed |
| 08:40 | <grove> | If you actually have packages installed that should have files installed, and you can't find those files you can use `dpkg --listfiles <package>` (but in this case that's not needed) |
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| 08:42 | <Tedesco> | how can i install the kernel version 5.14? |
| 08:42 | <Tedesco> | i'm trying [~] sudo apt install linux-image-5.14.0-4-amd64=5.14.16-1 |
| 08:43 | <jm_> | in stable? |
| 08:43 | <Tedesco> | testing |
| 08:43 | <jm_> | it only has 5.15 right now, you coud grab 5.14 from snapshot site if for some reason you need it |
| 08:43 | <jm_> | also, testing is supported in #debian-next |
| 08:45 | <Tedesco> | ok, thx |
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| 10:26 | <acnn> | Hello, good afternoon. given samba on debian buster connecting to a dc in windows server 2012 I get this error . winbind_samlogon_retry_loop: sam_logon returned ACCESS_DENIED. Maybe the DC has Restrict NTLM set or the trust account password was changed and we didn't know it. Killing connections Any ideas? I have samba 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5 and a Windows 2012 host |
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| 10:47 | <memtesthmm> | memtest86 and memtest86+ hang instead running. help |
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| 11:59 | <tenketsu88> | Still new to Linux, in the process of preparing to wipe my Windows 10 desktop and install Debian on it instead, I managed to flag the wrong existing partition as Active and made it (still Windows only) unbootable. I've got it booted using a Debian live image now, and trying to fix it with Gparted so I can get back into Windows and finish getting my data out before nuking Windows for good. But Gparted is only reading the whole drive as one partition, |
| 11:59 | <tenketsu88> | not the 3 that are actually on the drive. Debian itself sees that there are three partitions (sda1, sda2, and sda3, if I understand the Linux way correctly). Why isn't Gparted identifying the other partitions? How can I get it to see them? |
| 12:00 | <imMute> | make sure gparted is actually looking at the hard drive and not the USB/CD where the live image is |
| 12:01 | <tenketsu88> | It is, the USB is only 64GB but it's reporting nearly 2TB which is the size of the HDD |
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| 12:08 | <Sqrt{Not}> | tenketsu88, what do you see from `sudo fdisk -l` ? |
| 12:08 | <earendel> | tenketsu88: are you sure its not lvm or some container in /dev/mapper |
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| 12:09 | <distrutar_conchitas> | why the fuck do people want every shell to be identical. << tkwm, 2021-12-20 |
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| 12:19 | <tenketsu88> | 'sudo fdisk -l' gives me this: |
| 12:19 | <tenketsu88> | http://paste.debian.net/1224209 |
| 12:21 | <tenketsu88> | earendel: I'm sorry to say I'm too newbie at Linux to know what you mean, so no I'm not sure at all |
| 12:22 | <distrutar_conchitas> | no worries im as green as you. |
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| 12:22 | <distrutar_conchitas> | young vegetable. |
| 12:22 | <tenketsu88> | The only thing I see in /dev/mapper is something called "control" |
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| 12:23 | <uefiSucks> | installation failed |
| 12:23 | <tenketsu88> | Wait, LVM, I do know what that is |
| 12:23 | <tenketsu88> | Hah, I knew something for once |
| 12:23 | <uefiSucks> | partitioned disk manually, finished install, rebooted - system says (bios?) that there is no bootable partition |
| 12:23 | <uefiSucks> | I created manually first partion, 500 mb, "use as EFI". seems it didn't worked |
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| 12:24 | <imMute> | uefiSucks: did you boot the installer using UEFI or the legacy bios mode? |
| 12:24 | <tenketsu88> | I haven't done anything with LVM with this drive though, so I don't think it has anything to do with what's going on |
| 12:24 | <distrutar_conchitas> | it seems to be more than just a "partition container".. tho nobody ever bothers to know or to ask :p |
| 12:24 | <uefiSucks> | imMute: no idea, but the same mode was used during running installer as is used after reboot after install |
| 12:25 | <imMute> | uefiSucks: figure that out. it'll matter for booting the installed system |
| 12:25 | <uefiSucks> | imMute: how? |
| 12:25 | <distrutar_conchitas> | its _apparantly_ convenient to have multiple partitions (with swamp) in a single key encrypted volume " but then of course |
| 12:25 | <uefiSucks> | but I suspect this hardware is EFI-only |
| 12:25 | <imMute> | uefiSucks: go into the BIOS settings. from there is't specific to your hardware - there's no standard |
| 12:26 | <distrutar_conchitas> | lvm is a vietnamese marketing agent pushing for apple juice market |
| 12:26 | <distrutar_conchitas> | man 9 |
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| 12:26 | <uefiSucks> | imMute: it is UEFI only hardware. in bios Secure Boot is disabled now |
| 12:28 | <uefiSucks> | what would be the command to tell debian netinstall console to (again) install uefi-or-whatever into given partition? |
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| 12:29 | <distrutar_conchitas> | install |
| 12:30 | <distrutar_conchitas> | https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall |
| 12:32 | <tenketsu88> | Apparently the issue is that at some point I managed to use Windows version of LVM, Dynamic Disks, when I was installing Windows 10 I guess. And the answer seems to be a big PITA. ...The data I haven't backed up already isn't worth this much headache. Goodbye, and good riddance, Windows. |
| 12:35 | <uefiSucks> | uefi is almost as big cancer as systemd |
| 12:35 | <Sqrt{Not}> | tenketsu88, win10 also tries to put as much as possible of your files into its own "cloud" one-drive or something. you *might* be able to recover something from there, maybe. |
| 12:35 | <uefiSucks> | why can't people with "inventions" leave working things as they are |
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| 12:36 | <imMute> | "working" is doin a lot of work there... |
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| 12:38 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, secure boot works fine in debian and the installer. maybe your machine wants uefi and secure boot ? In any case, you need to boot after installation in whatever mode you booted the installer itself, for most reliable experience |
| 12:38 | <tenketsu88> | I've got all my documents and pictures and such, the main thing I was going to do was make a backup image of the install itself so I could spin it up in a virtual machine if I got the urge. |
| 12:39 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: I can turn secure boot on or off, either is not working |
| 12:39 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: to install on eufi system with manual partitioning, it is ok to delete entire disk, and then just creat 1 partition that is set to "use as EFI" right? |
| 12:40 | <uefiSucks> | no need to create and mount /boot etc? |
| 12:40 | <uefiSucks> | or anything |
| 12:40 | <tenketsu88> | ...I guess I'd better go ahead and do it even though it's a PITA, and even though this debacle has reminded me how much I hate Windows and why I want to nuke it from my hardware |
| 12:43 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, the standard layout is for the EFI partition to be mounted inside /boot -- and /boot will contain the kernel and initramfs (several versions eventually) and then the other filesystems in their own partitions as appropriate |
| 12:44 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: but in installer you just set "use as EFI" and that is all, on one 500 mb partition? intaller didnt show any "mount point" option to config for it |
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| 12:46 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, I think the installer has a mount point option for each partition you create, no matter what type |
| 12:47 | <uefiSucks> | in netinstall rescue console: efibootmgr -> "efi variables are not supported on this system" how ever /sys/firmware/efi/ exists and has stuff like config_table efivars fw_vendor systab etc |
| 12:48 | <Sqrt{Not}> | did you turn secure boot back on? |
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| 12:49 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: no, but should I ? isn't that just an option that will stop boot if kernel or sh*t is unsigned? |
| 12:50 | <uefiSucks> | If the directory /sys/firmware/efi/efivars is empty, you need to boot the rescue system including the kernel option "efi=runtime" and mount the EFI variables before proceeding: [...] <-------------- how to do that with debian netinstall cd |
| 12:50 | <Sqrt{Not}> | each manufacturer / BIOS has their own slightly different interpretation of what those options/words should mean. I don't know for your case. (and I will be away a while now, but others here know more that I do anyway) |
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| 12:52 | <uefiSucks> | ah ok you just press "e" edit on the option to boot rescue, as normally in grub |
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| 12:58 | <uefiSucks> | ok now efivars/ contains over 100 files |
| 12:58 | <uefiSucks> | huuur lets make the boot process easier durrr - inventor of EFI |
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| 12:59 | <uefiSucks> | " For example, for a system with an EFI partition on /dev/sdb1, an unencrypted /boot partition on /dev/sdb2, and a LUKS-encrypted / partition on /dev/sdb3, do: " |
| 13:00 | <uefiSucks> | wait, so does this mean that while installing system I should had created separated /boot and separated "use t his as EFI" partition or not? my root / lives on encrytped LVM so "bios" doesnt see it ofc |
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| 13:02 | <uefiSucks> | =anyone? |
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| 13:03 | <sney> | the debian installer uses that layout, I assume it's necessary unless grub can read lvm volumes |
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| 13:03 | <bremner> | grub can read lvm v1 volumes |
| 13:03 | <uefiSucks> | its encrypted |
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| 13:03 | <uefiSucks> | so which partitions must exist unencrypted and should be mounted to where during install? |
| 13:04 | <uefiSucks> | sda1(ext3)=/boot sda2(EFI)=/boot/efi ? |
| 13:04 | <uefiSucks> | are both needed? |
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| 13:05 | <uefiSucks> | the mysteries of UEFI... does anyone knows any more how this works? lets overcomplicate so on one gets it |
| 13:06 | <imMute> | just wait till you play with an ARM SoC. |
| 13:06 | <uefiSucks> | imMute: afaik it is much easier. open hardware is the future btw |
| 13:07 | <uefiSucks> | does /boot have to be accessible from grub (so, can' |
| 13:07 | <imMute> | lmao, no, it's not easier. every single ARM chip has it's own first stage bootloader, and there's zero consistency there |
| 13:07 | <uefiSucks> | does /boot have to be accessible from grub (so, can't be encrypted)? |
| 13:07 | <sney> | grub can unlock luks, and if grub can also read lvm v1 volumes, then you shouldn't *need* a separate unencrypted /boot for the kernel and initrd to live in, but I wouldn't know how to set that up, either :) |
| 13:07 | <uefiSucks> | ok but content of /boot must be readable by GRUB, ofc, right? |
| 13:08 | <uefiSucks> | thanks debian isntaller for not telling me that |
| 13:09 | <uefiSucks> | btw congratulation on broken installer since at least 3 released (deb9,10,11) that always fails when SWAP is crated during install on luks |
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| 13:09 | <uefiSucks> | (can be worked around, at least) |
| 13:09 | <sney> | this system I'm typing on right now has encrypted root with /boot on it, efi and secure boot, just not lvm. and when I turn it on, grub prompts me for the luks password, and when I enter it I get the regular grub menu, etc. |
| 13:10 | <sney> | since grub can do that it should be possible to do it with lvm involved as well. but it's nonstandard so you'll probably have to tinker with it. |
| 13:10 | <uefiSucks> | in cfdisk, what partition type to set for /boot when system is EFI and there is separate EFI partition? |
| 13:11 | <uefiSucks> | just linux fs? bios boot? linux ext boot? |
| 13:11 | <sney> | linux fs, presumably. |
| 13:12 | <uefiSucks> | where is the data that will tell system to use /boot? is it saved in the data in EFI partition? |
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| 13:14 | <sney> | yes, aiui, all the configuration for that stage lives in /boot/efi/EFI/Debian |
| 13:15 | <uefiSucks> | efibootmgr --verbose doesn't have any "debian" in it. how to fix? |
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| 13:17 | <uefiSucks> | what is stat /boot/efi on your system? |
| 13:17 | <sney> | probably by getting into your debian system and installing grbu |
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| 13:18 | <sney> | https://termbin.com/uv7n |
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| 13:24 | <Debusr> | Hello, I have a laptop with Nvidia card and intel integrated graphics, i did a apt install nvidia-driver but apparently it is not using the nvidia card |
| 13:24 | <Debusr> | I ran glxgears and I am not getting enough frames per second, and the nvidia settings shows the card at 0% load all the time |
| 13:25 | <bremner> | how about some more useful benchmark? |
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| 13:25 | <Debusr> | like what? |
| 13:25 | <bremner> | like a program you care about |
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| 13:27 | <Debusr> | The laptop is a system76, if I run the same glxgears with pop os I get 98% use of the Nvidia card and about 10 times more fps. also the fans go like a rocket. So i know in Debian somehow i am not using the Nvidia card |
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| 13:29 | <Debusr> | If I install the latest Nvidia Driver from Nvidia's web page, will it mess with the actual installation in apt? |
| 13:29 | <uefiSucks> | Debusr: you can play openarena |
| 13:30 | <Debusr> | I played Flightgear, and not a lot of fps... |
| 13:30 | <sney> | if the nvidia driver built successfully, you will need to follow these instructions to use prime offload: https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus#PRIMEOffload |
| 13:31 | <sney> | if you're using gnome I believe it is in a context menu. |
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| 13:40 | <Debusr> | yes I am using gnome |
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| 13:58 | <DaniAnd> | hola a todos y todas jeje |
| 13:59 | <bremner> | !es |
| 13:59 | <dpkg> | Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/ |
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| 14:03 | <dpkg> | Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-br ) - debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org |
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| 14:22 | <Debusr> | thank you @sney |
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| 14:41 | <uefiSucks> | must EFI partition include bootloader from like the mainboard vendor? |
| 14:41 | <uefiSucks> | what files/dirs are in your /boot/efi/EFI/ ? |
| 14:41 | <uefiSucks> | caaan anyone on EFI system paste ls /boot/efi/EFI |
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| 14:44 | <bremner> | there's a Bios from Dell, and grub from debian in mine |
| 14:45 | <uefiSucks> | bremner: so there is directory named "debian/" ? and..? |
| 14:45 | <uefiSucks> | also how did the dell's one got there? |
| 14:45 | <bremner> | no idea |
| 14:46 | <bremner> | presumably came with the machine |
| 14:46 | <somiaj> | this sounds like an XY problem. Why do you need to know the contants of the EFI partition? |
| 14:46 | <somiaj> | Mine has Boot/ debian/ and Microsoft/ (but I dual boot windows, so this all makes sense) |
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| 14:46 | <uefiSucks> | so, is it possible to recreate properly EFI after re-partitioning and fully erasing disk? |
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| 14:46 | <uefiSucks> | does debian installer have all files needed to be placed in EFI/ ? |
| 14:47 | <somiaj> | You'll just use grub-install to do that |
| 14:47 | <somiaj> | this should also use efivars to let the firmware know where the new partition is and what boot to use as default |
| 14:47 | <uefiSucks> | yeah I think I fixed the stupid efivars |
| 14:48 | <aidalgol> | Since wicd has been removed in bullseye, what should I use instead? |
| 14:48 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, in case you have not seen it yet, look at the debian install manual: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual |
| 14:48 | <bremner> | aidalgol: laptop or desktop / server? |
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| 14:48 | <somiaj> | aidalgol: you can use core tools such as debians interface file, networkd, network-manager and there is a new tool connman |
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| 14:49 | <aidalgol> | bremner: Laptop, running just i3, so I'm not sure network manager is an option. |
| 14:49 | <somiaj> | uefiSucks: in general one doesn't need to manually create anything in the EFI parttion. This will be done via some tool, if using grub, grub-install and the firmware will create all required files. |
| 14:49 | <somiaj> | aidalgol: it is if you want to install it |
| 14:49 | <somiaj> | aidalgol: though I personally use wpasupplicant in roam mode with wpa_gui in fvwm here |
| 14:50 | <somiaj> | there is a good guide on how to integrate this with the interfaces file in /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant |
| 14:50 | <uefiSucks> | somiaj: but grub will not recrate the vendors efi entries so I wonder if that is needed |
| 14:50 | <somiaj> | grub will inform the firmware of the new efi entry and the firmware should create any files if needed |
| 14:51 | <somiaj> | I personaly created my efi partition from scratch, so I have no vendor stuff there |
| 14:51 | <uefiSucks> | somiaj: so you have only directory debian/ there? any files outside? |
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| 14:51 | <somiaj> | I have a Boot/ and a Microsoft/ as I said, because I have dual boot |
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| 14:52 | <somiaj> | I think you are making an issue where there shouldn't be one. In general I have never had to look or care about the contents of the efi partition, the tools have done it all for me (even when creating a new one on a new disk) |
| 14:53 | <uefiSucks> | somiaj: well no one told me that I need to create /boot during install, just creted EFI partition, I guess this made intaller fail to set it all up |
| 14:53 | <somiaj> | Did you boot the installer in efi mode? The installer setup everythign for me jsut fine |
| 14:53 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, see the link I gave you just above, for other things no one told you so far. |
| 14:53 | <uefiSucks> | somiaj: no idea how to check efi mode, but seems this computer is efi only |
| 14:54 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: tools should be more helpful and not require to read some trilogy just to install os btw |
| 14:54 | <aidalgol> | somiaj: thanks, I'll look into this |
| 14:54 | <somiaj> | the very first screen you boot into will let you know if you botted in efi or not. It will say efi somewhere on the screen |
| 14:54 | <bremner> | aidalgol: network-manager works ok for me on a laptop running i3 |
| 14:55 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, feel free to contribute patches to the tools, if you feel they are lacking |
| 14:55 | <bremner> | the applet is occasionaly useful but not mandatory |
| 14:56 | <uefiSucks> | efibootmgr --verbose does not show debian after reboot, I got it to show up before reboot now it's gone. does this mean this hardware is broken? |
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| 14:56 | <uefiSucks> | I needed to run kernel with efi=runtime and mount efivarfs |
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| 14:57 | <somiaj> | Are you not using grub? Anyways sounds like you are doing something non-standard. The installer in my experience has set this all up for me. |
| 14:57 | <aidalgol> | bremner: Looks like it has a nicer non-GUI interface now, too. |
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| 14:57 | <uefiSucks> | somiaj: I am doing most standard thing, besides that I created new disk partitions |
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| 14:57 | <uefiSucks> | somiaj: I did nothing to not use gurb |
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| 14:58 | <somiaj> | I always create my own partitions, so unsure what the issue could be. |
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| 14:58 | <bremner> | aidalgol: yeah, although some of the trickier things like adding a vpn don't work there iirc |
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| 14:59 | <uefiSucks> | somiaj: does efibootmgr --verbose show entry for debian? |
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| 15:08 | <uefiSucks> | uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 15:08 | <uefiSucks> | my computer's ROM lets me boot from EFI file |
| 15:08 | <uefiSucks> | and there I can brows and actually see debian, and refind and tools |
| 15:08 | <somiaj> | yea most firmware allows that, you can even set which is default via the firmware vs os tools |
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| 15:09 | <uefiSucks> | loading grubx64.efi there, starts a GNU GRUB but it has only one entry - System setup with like gives back controll to mainboard/ROM |
| 15:09 | <uefiSucks> | at least im in normal Grub, but it lacks the Debian entry |
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| 15:10 | <uefiSucks> | how to fix that now |
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| 15:11 | <uefiSucks> | before the powers that be ban all the cars (due to muh environment and stuff), I wish creators of UEFI might die in a tragic car crash, hopefully involving systemd team |
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| 15:12 | * | uefiSucks wondres if grubd&EFId conference might lure the mentioned parties |
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| 15:24 | <uefiSucks> | what does "efi=runtime" kernel opt do? |
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| 15:33 | <uefiSucks> | https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html (kinda hard to find, google is shit nowdays) |
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| 15:41 | <uefiSucks> | GRUB does not show the entry with Debian, how to reinstall/add it? |
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| 15:46 | <Sqrt{Not}> | %install grub |
| 15:46 | <dselect> | GNU GRUB 2 is a portable and powerful boot loader. Ask me about <grub config> and <grub default>. To reinstall, ask me about <fixmbr>. http://wiki.debian.org/Grub2 #grub on irc.libera.chat. See also <grub legacy>. |
| 15:46 | <Sqrt{Not}> | %fixmbr |
| 15:47 | <dselect> | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 15:48 | <spawacz> | %supergrub |
| 15:48 | <dselect> | Super Grub Disk and Super Grub2 Disk are forks of <GRUB Legacy> and <GRUB2> respectively, which can be used to repair existing GNU GRUB installations. http://www.supergrubdisk.org/ See also <fixmbr>. |
| 15:48 | <uefiSucks> | dselect: turned out I needed to reinstall linux-image stuff |
| 15:48 | <uefiSucks> | ok now it boots |
| 15:49 | <uefiSucks> | only problem is that ROM "bios" thinks he can't find bootable option, so I choose "boot from EFI file" -> debian -> shim...bin and then Im in grub |
| 15:49 | <uefiSucks> | how to fix that? why is that problem happening? it seems the "NVM EFI settings" thing is being lost after my attempts to edit it after each reboot, is that the cause likelly? why kernel fails to permanently save it, does efi=runtime block it? |
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| 15:57 | <uefiSucks> | why now gnome / gnomedm takes over ctrl+alt+f1, how to tell it to hike off to f7? |
| 15:59 | <blast007> | or you could just use another one |
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| 16:02 | <uefiSucks> | blast007: lightdm is broken |
| 16:02 | <uefiSucks> | which firemware to get better firmware for Radeon integrated GPU? |
| 16:02 | <blast007> | I mean another VT |
| 16:02 | <uefiSucks> | blast007: nah, it should be 7 for graphics |
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| 16:04 | <Sqrt{Not}> | !radeon |
| 16:04 | <dpkg> | Radeon is a brand of graphic processing units by AMD/ATI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). The radeon open source display driver is packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration. Also ask me about <radeon firmware>, <radeon audio>. https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo http://x.org/wiki/radeon #radeon on irc.oftc.net. For the proprietary driver, see <fglrx>. |
| 16:04 | <blast007> | aren't two VT's used these days? One for the login screen and one for the actual logged in session? Or maybe that's just because I'm still using Xorg on Deb 11. |
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| 16:04 | <uefiSucks> | blast007: indeed |
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| 16:04 | <uefiSucks> | so should be like f7,f8 or f6,f7 |
| 16:04 | <uefiSucks> | !radeon firmware |
| 16:04 | <dpkg> | Binary-only firmware for the amdgpu and radeon <DRM> drivers is packaged for Debian as firmware-amd-graphics. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or missing video features are commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>, then install firmware-amd-graphics. |
| 16:05 | -!- | ax562 [~ax562@0002ac27.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian |
| 16:05 | -!- | ax562 is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #linux #debian #debian-next |
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| 16:05 | -!- | Etua is "Etua" on #openttd #debian-pl #debian #osm-pl |
| 16:06 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, if you dig hard enough, you can probably find gnome settings or some gnome config, to change what VT[s] it is running on. |
| 16:08 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: how to fix it for everyone/default? |
| 16:09 | <Sqrt{Not}> | you probably can't, if you have to ask |
| 16:09 | <uefiSucks> | is there some guy going around in debian like "oh shuuucks I know! I will change this thing that worked for 30 years, because screw everyone who learned things lol"? or are there more of accidental things of no one paying attention to small stupid changes eg from upstream |
| 16:09 | <Sqrt{Not}> | (why do you think everyone wants it to be your way?) |
| 16:10 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: not "my way" but "the way" it always was |
| 16:10 | <Sqrt{Not}> | note that gnome is developed elsewhere, not here. |
| 16:10 | <Sqrt{Not}> | !gnome |
| 16:10 | <dpkg> | GNOME is a Desktop Environment ("DE", so are <KDE> and <XFCE>) based on GTK+. To get or delete GNOME, ask me about <install gnome> or <remove gnome> respectively. See also <gnome status>. https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome http://www.gnome.org/ #debian-gnome on irc.debian.org. GNOME-related IRC channels: https://wiki.gnome.org/Community/GettingInTouch/IRC |
| 16:10 | <uefiSucks> | that was my question. are such "not broken? lets fix it lol" things coming from Debian, or from upstream |
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| 16:11 | -!- | guardian is "guardian" on #debian |
| 16:12 | <imMute> | you're assuming things are not broken. |
| 16:12 | <uefiSucks> | imMute: you think moving X from f7 to f1 fixed something? like what? lots of bugs in X and DM/WM, but non related to that number I can recall |
| 16:13 | <imMute> | I don't know what those things mean, so IDK. |
| 16:13 | <Sqrt{Not}> | in the case of VT[1,2] vs VT7, I found it quite easy just to get used to it, and move on to something important |
| 16:14 | <imMute> | oh, you're just bitching about things changing. /me wanders off to do something important. |
| 16:15 | -!- | paw [~afong@198-84-206-8.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 16:15 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: it might be less secure in small way. ctrl+f1 = text, to log in as root. nowdays: ctrl+....=text? what after I start 8 or 12 X users? |
| 16:15 | <uefiSucks> | I guess users should always sysrq-saK anyway, but just one small extra detail to remember |
| 16:15 | <Sqrt{Not}> | (AND WHY ARE ALL THESE DANG NEWBIES ALWAYS TYPING IN SMALL LETTERS? THAT'S NOT HOW WE USED TO DO IT!!!!!) |
| 16:16 | <uefiSucks> | during D-Day |
| 16:19 | <uefiSucks> | humans use small/big caps since like what, middle ages? that's natural. choosing vt1 to be graphics vs vt7 is not, it was linux who CREATED that standard (or UNIX perahaps?), so no need to change standard we invented if there is no need at all |
| 16:22 | -!- | leonardorocha [~leonardo@2804:14d:882:9ada:6b3c:e3d9:82ad:6cee] has joined #debian |
| 16:22 | -!- | leonardorocha is "realname" on #debian |
| 16:28 | <Sqrt{Not}> | uefiSucks, the first many computers and remote terminals I learned to use did not have any F1 through F7 through F12 keys, so we just did everything in binary |
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| 16:34 | -!- | joe[_]D [2d99a002@107.161.19.109] has joined #debian |
| 16:34 | -!- | joe[_]D is "[https://kiwiirc.com] joe[_]D" on #debian #nouveau #ovirt #intel-gfx #radeon #debian-xfce @#honey #moocows #asahi-gpu #asahi-dev #dri-devel #ceph #llvm #oftc #asahi #virt #freedombox #fdroid |
| 16:34 | <joe[_]D> | cheers |
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| 16:34 | <uefiSucks> | Sqrt{Not}: the 2005-2020 way of f7 (sometimes 5/6) = X, was how it was invented, right? |
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| 16:35 | <uefiSucks> | if the way it was invented does not have some large downside, and is in use for like 15 years, changing details only causes annoyance in folk who already learnede in |
| 16:35 | -!- | n3m3s1s [~n3m3s1s@8VQAAFK29.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian |
| 16:35 | -!- | n3m3s1s is "nemesis" on #apertium #C #ceph #debian #fdroid #i2p #linux #oftc #OpenBSD #perl #retroshare |
| 16:35 | <uefiSucks> | *learned it |
| 16:36 | -!- | bahamat [~bahamat@2600:8801:8606:8503:8123:13dd:4721:464] has joined #debian |
| 16:36 | -!- | bahamat is "Brian Bennett" on #debian |
| 16:36 | <joe[_]D> | im starting a project to auth login on eufi using java libs |
| 16:37 | <imMute> | uefiSucks: you've spent more time bitching about it than it would take to just get used to the new default... |
| 16:38 | <joe[_]D> | you should be able to run linux kernel installed on eufi |
| 16:39 | <uefiSucks> | imMute: ok lets never fix anything inconvinient or illogical in linux&debian, by that line of thinking |
| 16:40 | <joe[_]D> | submit fix maybe it gets upstreamed |
| 16:43 | <joe[_]D> | is this channel hidden? |
| 16:45 | <sney> | this channel is public, some other debian channels may be hidden or not |
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| 16:46 | -!- | nt1036 is "realname" on #C #debian #debian-devel-changes #debian-rant #debian-ubuntu #linux #oftc |
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| 16:47 | -!- | MajorBiscuit is "MajorBiscuit" on #radeon #intel-gfx #linux #moocows #llvm #virt #oftc #freedesktop #haiku #debian #wayland #asahi-stream #asahi-gpu #asahi-re #asahi-dev #asahi |
| 16:47 | <uefiSucks> | == Channel modes on #debian are: +nstcl 997 https://www.oftc.net/ChannelModes/ |
| 16:47 | <joe[_]D> | its not poping up on the list |
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| 16:48 | <uefiSucks> | I petition mods to -c #debian tho |
| 16:48 | <joe[_]D> | doesn't s stands for secret? |
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| 16:49 | <uefiSucks> | joe[_]D: only from /whois somedude to see what other chans he is in |
| 16:49 | <uefiSucks> | joe[_]D: how do you get "the list"? ask #oftc probly you are doing it wrong |
| 16:50 | <joe[_]D> | ? /list |
| 16:50 | <bremner> | joe[_]D: anyway, is this the most important question for you? |
| 16:50 | <bremner> | the channel is what it is, either secret or not, probably depending on the day |
| 16:50 | <joe[_]D> | most important? |
| 16:50 | <joe[_]D> | its hard to say wich is most important |
| 16:50 | <bremner> | well, you're here. So, next question? |
| 16:52 | <joe[_]D> | how do i get dmesg from failed boot? |
| 16:52 | <joe[_]D> | it only show the current boot |
| 16:53 | <joe[_]D> | vip question |
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| 16:53 | <sney> | journalctl -k -b-1, to see the previous boot |
| 16:53 | <bremner> | try journalctl -b -1 |
| 16:53 | <bremner> | heh |
| 16:53 | <sney> | I guess -k isn't totally needed since there might be some clues outside of the kernel buffer |
| 16:53 | <bremner> | also, journalctl --list-boots |
| 16:54 | <joe[_]D> | some times i get a black screen at boot |
| 16:54 | <joe[_]D> | then sometimes it reboots |
| 16:54 | <joe[_]D> | and sometimes it starts okay |
| 16:55 | <joe[_]D> | -95 logs ! |
| 16:56 | <joe[_]D> | how do i find the failed ones? |
| 16:57 | <sney> | journalctl only knows the order they happened in, not the results, you'll have to look at them with that -b option mentioned earlier |
| 16:57 | <joe[_]D> | |gerp fail ? |
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| 16:58 | <joe[_]D> | |gerp pamic ? |
| 16:58 | <joe[_]D> | panic |
| 16:58 | <sney> | try 'journalctl -b -1' and then scroll through it and look |
| 16:58 | <sney> | you can also shift-g to get to the bottom, and / to search for strings. |
| 16:59 | <sney> | using grep is not the best, since you'll want to be able to look at the lines before/after the error as well. |
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| 16:59 | -!- | cambrian_invader is "KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #kernelnewbies #debian |
| 17:00 | <joe[_]D> | thers like 1000 lines |
| 17:01 | <joe[_]D> | i could do it in nano |
| 17:02 | <bremner> | if your pager didn't suck, it could scroll backwards |
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| 17:02 | <bremner> | and searhc |
| 17:03 | <bremner> | in fact the default pager for journalctl can do both |
| 17:03 | <sney> | indeed. |
| 17:03 | <joe[_]D> | need to learn systmed way of doing things /;P |
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| 17:04 | <uefiSucks> | joe[_]D: or switch to systemd-free os ;) |
| 17:04 | <sney> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Less_(Unix)#Frequently_used_commands |
| 17:04 | <uefiSucks> | I wish Debian might one day return to that glorious path before being consumed by redhat inc |
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| 17:05 | <joe[_]D> | i alread use systemctl reboot instead of reboot |
| 17:05 | <joe[_]D> | im learning |
| 17:06 | <sney> | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Nov 19 13:11 /sbin/reboot -> /bin/systemctl |
| 17:06 | <uefiSucks> | software devels seem hell-bent on maing things worse |
| 17:06 | <bremner> | resistance is futile. |
| 17:06 | <uefiSucks> | like breaking alt+tab |
| 17:06 | <uefiSucks> | gnome breaks alt+tab or windows switching afair by messing with list of tasks/taskbar, and grouping apps even when no one asks for it |
| 17:07 | <sney> | if you have some bug reports or feature requests for gnome, please email them to gnome or use gnome's bug tracker |
| 17:07 | <uefiSucks> | firefox makes some stupid ordering that stops alt+tab from returning to previous tab |
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| 17:07 | <sney> | there's 0 #debian can do about that. same for firefox or any other software that wasn't developed exclusively for debian |
| 17:07 | <bremner> | #debian-rant is that way -> |
| 17:07 | <uefiSucks> | sney: debian could decide to patch it in debian |
| 17:07 | <sney> | debian doesn't do that as a matter of policy. |
| 17:08 | <uefiSucks> | orly? |
| 17:08 | <sney> | debian is an integration project. if you want a patch-happy distro, there are plenty out there |
| 17:09 | <g3ntl3gian7> | /msg NickServ HELP REGISTER |
| 17:10 | <uefiSucks> | /msg nickserv identify hunter1 |
| 17:10 | <sney> | (and even if debian *were* patch-happy, or inclined to modify gnome for some reason, that still wouldn't be in the scope of a support channel. there are rarely DDs here, and when there are, they are unlikely to be impressed by ranting) |
| 17:11 | <Habbie> | sney, friendly reminder that you explained this to 'wifid' last week, who is the same person |
| 17:11 | <sney> | oh? welp |
| 17:11 | <Habbie> | this is not on you, of course |
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| 17:12 | -!- | krumelmonster_ is "https://convos.chat" on #debian |
| 17:12 | <sney> | I'm not so good at spotting the repeat customers if they're ~oftc-webi@ |
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| 17:12 | <Habbie> | me neither, but i thought i recognised a pattern, so i checked logs |
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| 17:23 | -!- | Tedesco is "Tedesco" on #debian #debian-next #linux #moocows #oftc #Qubes_OS #suckless #tor #tor-dev #tor-project #tor-relays #wayland |
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| 17:29 | <Sqrt{Not}> | Thanks, Habbie |
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| 17:38 | <Habbie> | Sqrt{Not}, np |
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| 17:57 | -!- | LoRez is "Mike Mattice" on #moocows #oftc #bitlbee #python #perl #debian |
| 17:59 | <jeremiah> | Wonder if anyone else is having trouble reaching salsa.debian.org? |
| 18:00 | <bremner> | nope. |
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| 18:01 | <sney> | https://downfor.io/salsa.debian.org |
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| 18:17 | -!- | earthundead is "realname" on #debian |
| 18:18 | <jim> | hi,,, which bot can I say: why is gtklick not in bullseye |
| 18:19 | <joe[_]D> | kernel: EXT4-fs (sda1): re-mounted. Opts: errors=remount-ro. Quota mode: none. |
| 18:19 | <joe[_]D> | found this on the log |
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| 18:19 | <joe[_]D> | slow rive maybe? |
| 18:20 | <joe[_]D> | hdd |
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| 18:27 | <sney> | joe[_]D: "errors=remount-ro" just means that *if* the drive has an error, it will be remounted read-only. this is not an error message. |
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| 18:33 | <bremner> | jim: try https://tracker.debian.org |
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| 18:41 | <r4fkramer> | Hello everybody. I'm using debian bullseye 11.1 plus MATE DE, and when I downloaded a video from youtube-dl, instead of finding it in the 'r4fkramer' user folder (like what happened with the previous 17 videos), nothing just shows up, although the download process via youtube-dl has been completed. |
| 18:41 | <r4fkramer> | Please, Could someone explain to me what happened to this file? |
| 18:42 | <enigma9o7[m]> | I'd start by finding the file.... |
| 18:42 | <enigma9o7[m]> | find ~/ -name filename |
| 18:42 | <enigma9o7[m]> | can use wildcard if you know beginning of filename |
| 18:42 | <jim> | how does he konw what filename was downloaded |
| 18:43 | <r4fkramer> | Fine enigma9o7[m], let me check it here, Thank you very much ! |
| 18:43 | <r4fkramer> | jim [download] 100% of 559.82MiB in 03:05:02 |
| 18:43 | <enigma9o7[m]> | i dunno, never used youtube-dl, doesnt it tell you the filename or use something consistent you could search for? at worst case use *.extension like *.mp4 or whatever it saves them as |
| 18:44 | <r4fkramer> | the output of the download process finished |
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| 18:45 | <r4fkramer> | jim, and enigma9o7[m], here you are: https://paste.debian.net/1224253/ |
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| 18:46 | <enigma9o7[m]> | great show it shows you the filename, so you can copy/paste that into find command |
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| 18:47 | <enigma9o7[m]> | other than you're root |
| 18:47 | <enigma9o7[m]> | why are you doing it as root? |
| 18:47 | <enigma9o7[m]> | you can search the whole thing i guess becuase it may not be in ~/ |
| 18:47 | <enigma9o7[m]> | as I assumed you were a user |
| 18:47 | <r4fkramer> | Oh God, you are right ! Never need to use root in this case ! |
| 18:48 | <r4fkramer> | Sorry, it's in root directory, not in r4fkramer, I just forgot to switch to normal user :( |
| 18:49 | <r4fkramer> | Thank you very much for advertising me about it, enigma9o7[m] ! |
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| 18:50 | <enigma9o7[m]> | np! I believe that's why its usually reccommended to use sudo for specific commands that need root, not sudo su or sudo -i.... |
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| 18:50 | <enigma9o7[m]> | because you'll accidentally forget your root at some point |
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| 18:50 | <Sqrt{Not}> | "sudo su" is never recommended |
| 18:51 | <r4fkramer> | Agree engima9o7[m] that's exactly what happened here accidentally |
| 18:52 | <r4fkramer> | Better including sudo in sudoers nex time. Really thank you very much for atttention and Great Support :) See You ! |
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| 19:00 | <jim> | sudo -i is better if you want a shell |
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| 19:10 | <jim> | sudo su spawns two preocesses, one for sudo, one for su (and a third, the shell itself), while sudo -i only spawns one for sudo, and one for the root shell |
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| 19:16 | <sney> | su also doesn't behave the same in every distro (or every debian version) while sudo is much more predictable. I have pretty much stopped using su altogether |
| 19:17 | <koollman> | I have the opposite experience. su works the same, sudo does not :) |
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| 19:19 | <Wulf> | both can be configured. E.g. user "foo" can type "su - bar" and doesn't have to authenticate. Bar has "!" as (encrypted) password. |
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| 19:42 | <dKaiser> | I am attempting to install Bullseye on Beaglebone Black and can't seem to identify the correct network device. |
| 19:42 | <dKaiser> | Any suggestions? |
| 19:42 | <sney> | dKaiser: I'm looking at the beaglebone website and it's not clear what network controller they're using, which is a bit annoying, but in any case the likely issue is missing firmware |
| 19:42 | <sney> | some network devices require extra firmware files which debian doesn't include in the standard installer. |
| 19:43 | <sney> | !firmware installer |
| 19:43 | <dpkg> | Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>. |
| 19:43 | <sney> | err, not that |
| 19:43 | <sney> | !firmware image |
| 19:43 | <dpkg> | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software, but otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>, <old firmware images>. |
| 19:43 | <sney> | actually it should be the first link, since the firmware images are only provided for x86 |
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| 19:44 | <dKaiser> | I am able to build the latest Yocto image and it accesses the network just fine. |
| 19:45 | * | dvs sees that the topic doesn't like Debian 11.2 |
| 19:45 | <sney> | other distros have different practices about network firmware |
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| 19:47 | <dKaiser> | I assume that I can take the appropriate piece from my working Yocto build and copy/install it to my Debian build. Correct? |
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| 19:48 | <sney> | dKaiser: if it's a file in /lib/firmware, yes. if it's a kernel module, no |
| 19:48 | <dKaiser> | I am not aware, yet, how I would identify the appropriate piece(s)... |
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| 19:48 | <sney> | in yocto, if you can do a 'lspci -k' and report what the network device is, and what driver is in use, that would be a big help |
| 19:48 | <k-man> | somiaj: regarding evince and apparmor. thanks for your pointer and suggested solution. that worked for me too |
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| 19:54 | <dKaiser> | sney: lspci is not available in my yocto build |
| 19:54 | <somiaj> | k-man: though now that firefox-esr is updated in debian, I would just use that version, then it works out of the box and you don't have to enable more privlages |
| 19:54 | <somiaj> | so I have reverted it since i'm not using a custom install anymore |
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| 19:54 | <k-man> | oh? |
| 19:55 | <k-man> | what v. is esr now? |
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| 19:55 | <sney> | dKaiser: erm, ok. how about pastebin 'lsmod' and the first 6 digits of your mac address? |
| 19:55 | <k-man> | nm, worked it out |
| 19:56 | <k-man> | i'll stick with my own install for now |
| 19:56 | <jkc> | sney: Why not the whole mac address? There's nothing sensitive about mac addrs. |
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| 19:56 | <sney> | didn't want to have that discussion, and the first 6 is plenty to find out who made it |
| 19:57 | <jkc> | sney: It's not a discussion, its a fact. mac addrs aren't sensitive. So do your part and don't propagate the mistaken idea that they are. :) |
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| 19:57 | <sney> | yes, thanks for bringing up the thing I wanted to avoid in case we had a redactor |
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| 19:58 | <sney> | also, either every beaglebone doc I've found is intentionally glossing over what ethernet controller they use, or there's something implied by another part of the specs |
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| 20:04 | <somiaj> | k-man: I just prefer to use debian's packages if possible, and the point release came with the ability to update firefox-esr. |
| 20:04 | <dKaiser> | 78:a5:04: |
| 20:05 | <somiaj> | k-man: current version, 91.4.1esr-1~deb11u1 |
| 20:05 | <sney> | ok, that confirms what I just figured out, it's ti cpsw. |
| 20:06 | <sney> | dKaiser: if you 'lsmod' on your yocto system, do you see cpsw in use? |
| 20:07 | <dKaiser> | sney: no. |
| 20:08 | <dKaiser> | In the debug output log of the Yocto build startup I see: |
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| 20:08 | <sney> | !paste |
| 20:08 | <dpkg> | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 20:09 | <dKaiser> | cpsw 4a10000.ethernet: intialized cpsw ale version 1.4 |
| 20:09 | <sney> | ok, so yocto probably just doesn't build it as a module. I'm trying to figure out if that driver is normally included in arm debian kernels (it isn't in amd64, but that may be normal) |
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| 20:11 | <dKaiser> | sney: How do you determine if it is included in arm debian kernels? |
| 20:11 | <sney> | I'm gonna look at the file list |
| 20:11 | <dKaiser> | sney: URL? |
| 20:12 | <sney> | https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/armhf/linux-image-5.10.0-10-armmp/filelist |
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| 20:13 | <sney> | and yes, there it is |
| 20:14 | <sney> | ti_cpsw.ko and others |
| 20:16 | <labistp> | Hi I'm looking to adopt a package recently orphaned, last activity I see it was removed from testing a while ago and it has a rather old version in unstable. How should I go about packaging the current upstream stuff for testing? |
| 20:16 | <sney> | labistp: ask in #debian-mentors |
| 20:17 | <labistp> | thanks :) |
| 20:17 | <sney> | np |
| 20:17 | <dKaiser> | sney: During the installer UI I did try several selecting several different drivers, but did not find one that appeared to work (i.e., would allow me to continue the installation). |
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| 20:18 | <dKaiser> | I tried: ti_cpsw, ti_cpsw_new, ti_davinci_emac, cpsw-common, mdio, maybe more |
| 20:19 | <sney> | which supports the notion that there's missing firmware keeping the driver from loading |
| 20:19 | <sney> | try again, and switch to tty4 for the info console - is it asking for any specific firmware files? |
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| 20:19 | <dKaiser> | how do I "switch to tty4"? |
| 20:20 | <sney> | alt-f4, or ctrl-alt-f4 if you're in the gui installer |
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| 20:21 | <tzf> | my firefox changed, no more Home icon..... you too? |
| 20:21 | <k-man> | somiaj: yep, i hear you |
| 20:21 | <sney> | tzf: firefox-esr was updated to 91.4 in bullseye-security |
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| 20:22 | <tzf> | sney, so that's the why? |
| 20:23 | <sney> | yes |
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| 20:23 | <tzf> | its really diffrent then... i feel lost |
| 20:25 | <tzf> | ok... that is life, life is life ! |
| 20:26 | <dKaiser> | sney: I have restarted the Debian installer. I can't tell where I have switched to tty4. How will I know? |
| 20:28 | <sney> | the installer prints information to tty4 the whole time it is running. so get to the point when you are trying to load the network driver, and then go to tty4, and see what it says about the driver you tried to select |
| 20:28 | <sney> | you can get back to the menu with alt-f1 |
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| 20:37 | <dKaiser> | sney: I don't believe that I am able to get to tty4 |
| 20:38 | <dKaiser> | I have tried different key combinations. The red [] pair stays around the "1*installer" text at the top of the UI. |
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| 20:39 | <sney> | well, that's how the debian installer works. what installer image are you using? |
| 20:40 | <dKaiser> | debian-11.2.0-armhf-netinst.iso |
| 20:41 | <sney> | with a regular keyboard and monitor connected? |
| 20:42 | <dKaiser> | I place this in a separate SD-Card partition, in addition to the firmware.BeagleBoneBlack.img.gz and partition.img.gz files from deb.debian.org/debian/dists/bullseye/main/installer-armhf/current/images/hd-media/SD-card-images |
| 20:43 | <dKaiser> | currently, I don't have a regular keyboard and monitor connected. I am simply using the UART connection with a serial terminal |
| 20:44 | <dKaiser> | I could try again using a keyboad and HDMI monitor... |
| 20:44 | <sney> | there might be some break combo for doing it over serial |
| 20:44 | <sney> | I assume you followed the instructions to combine your images via the readme in that directory? |
| 20:45 | <dKaiser> | yes |
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| 20:48 | <sney> | maybe do the 'save debug logs' option from the installer menu, as mentioned in the ig, https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/armhf/ch06s03.en.html#di-miscellaneous |
| 20:48 | <sney> | pastebin those somehow |
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| 20:50 | <sney> | though I also see beaglebone has some debian 10 images hosted on their site - if your goal is debian 11, you might start from one of those and upgrade. at least until you can determine what's needed for it to work. |
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| 20:55 | <dKaiser> | the 'save debug logs' requires network access or a "floppy drive"... |
| 20:56 | <sney> | it won't save to your usb stick/sd card? |
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| 20:57 | <dKaiser> | It does not seem to present that as an option. |
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| 20:59 | <sney> | wish I had any armhf hardware around to test this on. |
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| 21:00 | <sney> | if you can't get to tty4 and can't save the logs, then I'm out of ideas. maybe someone in #debian-arm knows the secrets for this device. |
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| 21:04 | <dKaiser> | sney: Your attempts to help are greatly appreciated! |
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| 21:07 | <sney> | np |
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| 22:20 | <argsh> | https://imgur.com/a/UvuLi6P |
| 22:20 | <argsh> | ... |
| 22:21 | <enigma9o7[m]> | i thought atm's ran os/2 |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Dec 21 00:00:35 2021 |