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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-24

---Logopened Fri Dec 24 00:00:59 2021
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01:13<technologov>hi all ! I would like to sponsor development of a missing piece in the Debian system -- The Android sub-system. Anbox.
01:14<technologov>What would it take to package Anbox and the full Android Source Code for Debian, and upload to "main" repository ?
01:14<technologov>Expected result: Any user should be able to just (# apt-get install anbox) to get a fully working & integrated Android sub-system on their Debian system.
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01:16<somiaj>technologov: I don't know this source code, but is it's license fully compadiable with the DFSG?
01:16<somiaj>,i anbox
01:16<judd>Package anbox (contrib/utils, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Android in a box. Version: 0.0~git20210106-1; Size: 719.4k; Installed: 2748k; Homepage: https://anbox.io; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/anbox
01:16<somiaj>,v anbox
01:16<judd>Package: anbox on amd64 -- stretch-backports/contrib: 0.0~git20181014-1~bpo9+1; buster/contrib: 0.0~git20190124-1; bullseye/contrib: 0.0~git20210106-1; bookworm/contrib: 0.0~git20211020-1; sid/contrib: 0.0~git20211020-1
01:16<technologov>@somiaj AFAIK, yes. (both Anbox and Android source code seem to be fully open-source... )
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01:17<somiaj>technologov: Well it appears that anbox is already in debian
01:17<technologov>@judd it doesnt include Android -- so it doesn't work. (it requires users to compile Android manually)
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01:17<somiaj>I thought google put some non-free aspects on top of the opensource part of andriod. But I'm no expert.
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01:18<technologov>Whatever is packaged as part of Debian is only a small part of the final solution
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01:18<technologov>Final solution means uploadinf of Android source code, building Android for Anbox for ALL Debian CPU architectures, and testing the whole package
01:18<somiaj>There might be a reason why the andriod part isn't packaged. So again start by looking at the actual license.
01:18<somiaj>do you have a link to the full andriod source code?
01:18<technologov>@somiaj Android's license is Apache 2.0
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01:20<technologov>https://github.com/anbox/anbox/blob/master/docs/build-android.md
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01:23<somiaj>Well I don't know how they are interconnected, this might be a seperate package someone can start working on themselves, but you may want to talk to the anbox maintainer about this. I'm seeing if I can find any RFP bugs for this
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01:27<somiaj>also looks like there is an andriod-tools-devel team, so I would at least use the mailing list and try to see if you can find out any current state of this goal
01:28<somiaj>but if you want to put in the work, you can goto mentors.debian.net to read about the standard process of getting a package into debian. Though this one may take a bit more work and coordination with other maintainers such as anbox
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01:30<technologov>thx, I will ask on #debian-android-tools IRC
01:30<somiaj>I don't know if they have a channel or not
01:30<somiaj>there is #debian-mentors, maybe someone there has some real info (Which I don't have)
01:30<technologov>* #debian-android-tools :You must connect via SSL to join this channel (+S)
01:30<technologov>so i cant join there, meh
01:31<raven523>you should reconnect with ssl
01:31<somiaj>though my quick look around the source of the open source andriod project. There is no clear license file I can find, and I see a packages/ dir which might be packages that have different licenes and copyright. This will probably be something one needs to figure out and document
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01:48<somiaj>technologov: anyways, looks like the full andriod image that is being built is actually a collection of tons of individual packages which may have different copyrights and so forth. This might be extremally difficult to package in debian due to this. Though it is way out of my league to judge.
01:55<sussudio>sounds like a nightmare to maintain
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02:03<technologov>@somiaj Yes, integrating Android is a bit like integrating another Linux distro inside Debian, yet I think it needs to be done. (because of it's tremendous value)
02:04<technologov>One of the best features of owning a Chromebook, is that I actually have a full Android sub-system running on it. I am asking myself, why it doesn't exist in Linux ? ...
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02:05<technologov>https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/18/22440813/android-devices-active-number-smartphones-google-2021
02:06<technologov>But the Android eco-system with 3 billion users says that some kind of Android compatibility would be a nice-to-have. After all, Debian has "Wine" as Windows compatibility layer.
02:06<technologov>There are over 3 billion active Android devices
02:06<technologov>. That’s a lot of smartphones
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02:12<technologov>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbmiHnasGWg&ab_channel=SimonFels
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02:23<zoke>to be fair not all of the android devices are phones
02:24<zoke>there's probably a fair amount of smartTVs and other devices helping up that number
02:25<technologov>Yes, I think how to integrate Android into Debian... probably it would require to slice up Android into packages, and name each like "android-libpng", etc ...
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02:25<technologov>Android libs must be compiled on bionic lib C rather than glibc
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02:26<technologov>or as a single lump-pile of code with multiple licenses
02:28<sussudio>i would rather not have more google poison in debian. chromium is bad enough as it is.
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02:28<zoke>intergrating android in debian makes as much sense as intergrating openbsd in debian
02:28<technologov>chromium is "ungoogled" in debian, so is not a poison
02:29<sussudio>it's barely maintained.
02:29<sussudio>"look, i took the google sticker off, now it's no longer from google"
02:29<technologov>if "openbsd" had 3 billion active users and a lot of unique apps (not supported natively in Debian), I would favor integrating it too...
02:30<sussudio>those 3 billion users can do whatever they want outside of debian.
02:30<zoke>might as well run it in a VM if you need these android apps
02:30<zoke>I can't think of a single app on my phone that I would want on my computer
02:33<sussudio>the word "app" makes me want to strangle someone.
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02:35<zoke>please pick a "web developer" if you strangle someone :p
02:35<technologov>@sussudio the word "app" it is much shorter than "application" or "program". :)
02:37<sussudio>dumbed down words suck.
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02:55<alexrelis1>Anyone know of a good capture card that works well in Debian?
02:57<sussudio>no.
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03:44<revolt>any one has tried update roundcube to current version ?
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04:47<at0m>!anyone
04:47<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
04:48<at0m>,v roundcube
04:48<judd>Package: roundcube on amd64 -- stretch-proposed-updates: 1.2.3+dfsg.1-4+deb9u5; stretch-security: 1.2.3+dfsg.1-4+deb9u5; stretch: 1.2.3+dfsg.1-4+deb9u6; buster: 1.3.16+dfsg.1-1~deb10u1; buster-proposed-updates: 1.3.17+dfsg.1-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 1.3.17+dfsg.1-1~deb10u1; buster-backports: 1.4.12+dfsg.1-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.4.12+dfsg.1-1~deb11u1; bullseye-security: 1.4.12+dfsg.1-1~deb11u1;
04:48<judd>bookworm: 1.5.1+dfsg-1; sid: 1.5.1+dfsg-1
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07:37<maya>....alguien en casteyano ? ....please!!!
07:46<bremner>!es
07:46<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/
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08:02<maya>mmmm ok ... how to uninstall a fail driver(usb wifi) in debian 10 ???
08:04<sussudio>you don't. why do you want to remove it.
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08:05<maya>from : https://erickcion.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/instalador-antena-wifi-usb-tp-link-tl-wn722n-para-linux/
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08:06<maya>no runnig ... wifi ....
08:07<maya>reboot ... kernel panic ...stop problem module ath9k_htc
08:07<maya>reboot second ...a debian running but wifi USB no detect
08:08<maya>and ....new rebbot another kernel panic
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08:39<sussudio>maya: have you tried another usb port
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08:42<maya>no detect
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08:43<maya>current need wipe system boot
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08:43<sussudio>maya: return the wifi stick and ask for another one.
08:43<sussudio>you're wiping the disk because you can't get wifi to work?
08:43<maya>hot to delete this driver ...
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08:44<sussudio>you can blacklist it
08:44<sussudio>!blacklist
08:44<dpkg>To blacklist a Linux kernel module, create/edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "blacklist module_name". If this doesn't work, do 'echo "install modulename /bin/true" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf'. IMPORTANT: ask about <blacklist-initramfs>. To blacklist a module at installation time, ask me about <installer blacklist>. http://wiki.debian.org/KernelModuleBlacklisting
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08:48<maya>mmm ... the driver problem is external to debian
08:48<maya>my debian always runnng OK
08:51<maya>this problem whith probe this driver
08:51<maya>use: su root -c ./install.sh
08:51-!-kathenas [~kathenas@2a02:c7f:e512:a500:82fa:5bff:fe68:a513] has joined #debian
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08:52<sussudio>,v firmware-atheros
08:52<judd>Package: firmware-atheros on amd64 -- stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20210315-3~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20210315-3; bookworm/non-free: 20210818-1; sid/non-free: 20210818-1
08:52<maya>from tlwn722n-linux-install-latest.tar.gz
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08:52<sussudio>maya: i don't know why you're doing that, just install firmware-atheros. you will have to add non-free to your sources.list
08:53<maya>how to remove this driver? or bad compile ?
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10:10<aloo_shu>ask where you fot it from, maybe there's an uninstall.sh, too? otherwise, you may want to open jnstall.sh in a text editor, and find out what it does
10:11<aloo_shu>s/fot/got/
10:13<aloo_shu>oh shoot, I'm living in the past
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10:16<aloo_shu>can't we have an ircv4 feature that adds intelligence to the user (me) brain, and thus finally solves the answer-to-absent-users-problem riiiight at its root?
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10:26<io>that's called discord/slack, and it presents other problems
10:26<io>the problem being noise
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10:27<io>irssi users should really be using https://github.com/irssi/scripts.irssi.org/blob/master/scripts/dim_nicks.pl - as for weechat, there's probably a solution too
10:27<io>IRC is very diy; so if you don't do that, it's going to be a bad time
10:28<io>now, the benefit of IRC is that those who remain are generally pretty good with technical things
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10:54<aloo_shu>noise bad, yes
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11:56<Fedos>Hi, I have a quick question about the new version release. I already run "sudo apt dist-upgrade" which updated just few components but when I run "cat /etc/debian_version" I still see 11.1 :/
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11:57<Sqrt{Not}>Fedos, maybe just do `sudo apt update; sudo apt upgrade`
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12:02<Fedos>@Sqrt I did that as well but I get the message "All packages are up to date."
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12:05<enigma9o7[m]>reinstall base-files?
12:05<enigma9o7[m]>my /etc/debian_version says 11.2 and my base-files is version 11.1+deb11u2
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12:06<Fedos>how do I do that?
12:07<enigma9o7[m]>sudo apt install --reinstall base-files
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12:09<Fedos>just did that, after running upgrade it still say All files are up to date
12:09<Fedos>"base-files is already the newest version (11.1+deb11u1)."
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12:11<enigma9o7[m]>wonder why i have u2 but you have u1
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12:12<enigma9o7[m]>if sudo apt update says you're up to date, maybe your mirror isnt up to date
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12:12<Fedos>I thought it was bc my repositories but the seems ok to me http://paste.debian.net/1224651/
12:13<Fedos>are them? (._.)
12:13<enigma9o7[m]>so that shows you're using default debian repo, so dunno, im out of guesses
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12:16<Fedos>that should be the correct way, right?
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12:19<Sqrt{Not}>Fedos, the only thing I see, is maybe the repo name for security updates is changed a little now, the robot will tell the correct way:
12:19<Sqrt{Not}>!bullseye sources.list
12:19<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main" "deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <bullseye-updates> and `man sources.list`.
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12:25<Fedos>Thank you sir!
12:26<Sqrt{Not}>did that fix it?? good to know!
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12:27<Fedos>I'm updating the source list now
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12:32<Fedos>after saving sources.list I run update & upgrade but not receiving the updates yet http://paste.debian.net/1224653/
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12:35<kete>I'm trying to access a CD from a new external drive. I can see the files in my /media directory, but they weren't opening in SMPlayer or mpv. Now, they are, but cdparanoia is "Unable to open disc."
12:35-!-genesix is "purple" on #xen
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12:36<kete>Oh, well, I just played a file after copying and pasting, so I guess I'm good to go!
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12:42<jacktorrance>Noob question. Debian 11 VM running on Proxmox. Haven't used it for a while and notice that my DHCP server is assigning 2 IPs, it seems to have a secondary IP, I can't figure out why. Can you see anything wrong or advise how I can trace it? Thanks https://paste.debian.net/1224656/
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13:11<Guest9251>Not used irc before, looking for channels, mainly webdev how do I get a list? I'm using Konversation as a client?
13:12<james_>Not used irc before, looking for channels, mainly webdev how do I get a list? I'm using Konversation as a client?
13:13<bremner>#oftc can help you with how to use the network.
13:13<james_>yes please :)
13:13<bremner>I mean the channel #oftc, /join #oftc
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13:31<bremner>oh, there's probably a bot factoid for that isn't there
13:31<bremner>!new to irc
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13:43<sussudio>!new2irc
13:43<dpkg>You are chatting on IRC. IRC is the original group chat. Similar to platforms like Slack, Matrix, or Discord, IRC was invented in the 1980s and formalized with RFC 1459 in 1993. This channel, #debian, is for help with the debian operating system. Ask us a debian support question, or read more about IRC at https://netsplit.de or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC
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14:12<bentham>Actually, I do believe that there were one or two other Internet group chat formats before IRC. But that is pedantic.
14:17<alexrelis1>I think IRC is cool technology, but I really believe Debian should have an official Matrix chat at this point.
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14:17<aloo_shu>ohh yeah
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14:17<aloo_shu>and I really believe it shouldn't, now what
14:18<alexrelis>aloo_shu: Well I guess then I should ask you why shouldn't there be an official Matrix?
14:18<aloo_shu>belief
14:21<alexrelis>aloo_shu: But Matrix is free software and it's federated and it has things like chat history, image uploads, reactions, threads, encryption, bridges, and granular moderation controls built in.
14:22<alexrelis>It's not like I'm suggesting Discord *barfs*
14:22<zoke>I see little to no value in adding an additional support channel on some other platform...
14:22<zoke>also... image uploads, reactions & threads are some of the worst features in modern chat tools
14:22<zoke>if used correctly they would be good
14:23<alexrelis>zoke: And what about accessibility? A lot of people don't even know how to use an IRC client if I asked them to.
14:23<zoke>I don't know how to use a matrix client... so that argument is invalid
14:23<alexrelis>zoke: Your one anecdote does not invalidate my argument. I said "A lot of people" not "everyone".
14:24<zoke>alexrelis: point is, nobody knows how it's done before they've done it once
14:25<zoke>launching an irc-client is no more complicated then launching a slack-client etc...
14:25<alexrelis>zoke: You register for a Matrix account in the same way you register for any other online account. And the benefit of using Matrix is that you can bridge to an IRC channel so you can have people on both networks communicate with each other.
14:25<koollman>it's not really a good experience, though
14:26<zoke>and there is the showstopper... "register for an account"
14:26<alexrelis>Most IRC networks require a registered nick.
14:26<zoke>not really...
14:27<koollman>they propose to have one, they rarely require it
14:27<bentham>alexrelis: The problem with Matrix is that it is run by an organisation that does not share our values. OFTC does. Full stop.
14:27<alexrelis>zoke: Libera chat requires it and most free software project channels are hosted there.
14:29<alexrelis>bentham: Matrix is just a protocol though. Can you tell me about the organization and how our values differ? Matrix follows DSFG. OFTC can run their own Matrix instance if they don't want to use a popular instance.
14:29<koollman>bentham: I'm not sure how much that apply. Surely some organisation that fit could be already running a matrix server. (I still don't agree with using it, but it's federated, not centralized. matrix servers are run by very different people)
14:29<zoke>alexrelis: looks to me that libera don't require registration of a nick
14:30<koollman>zoke: it's partial. from some networks, you have to register to be able to connect, afaik
14:31<koollman>(mostly from cheap vps and other proxy/spam hosting networks, so it's not completely unreasonable)
14:34<alexrelis>It's strange to me that most of you are hostile to Matrix. I just can't wrap my head around it. IRC does the job, but it also alienates a whole segment of users who weren't born using it. I get the opposition if I was suggesting a centralized or nonfree solution, but that is not the case.
14:35<koollman>does it alienate them ? more than matrix or alternatives ?
14:36<zoke>I guess some people feel alienated when they cant use reactions or post images :p
14:36<alexrelis>koollman: Yeah it took me a very long time to figure out how to even use IRC. It's not as intuitive when you didn't grow up in the 90s using it.
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14:37<koollman>I would say it may be more a problem of client software than protocol, then
14:37<zoke>In all seriousness, they are all different tools for the same job...
14:37<koollman>that is probably what will make the most difference on the user experience
14:37<alexrelis>zoke: That's a little condescending. Images are great for diagnosing issues and troubleshooting. Threads and message history can make it easy to give help even after a person signs out.
14:38<zoke>alexrelis: it was meant as a joke... in case that wasn't clear by the added ":p"
14:38<alexrelis>koollman: It took me three IRC clients to find one that I was comfortable. You want to know what I landed on? Thunderbird. Yes, Thunderbird gave me the least amount of headache.
14:38<alexrelis>zoke: Oh okay my bad.
14:39<koollman>consider the UI in, say, irccloud. It's very, very user friendly (it has other problems, but I'm just talking about ui/ux). and it's irc. you don't have to know that it it irc at all to use it
14:39<koollman>interface is not a property of the protocol
14:39<koollman>(some features, obviously, are restricted by what irc can provide)
14:40<zoke>not all modern features add to the experience either
14:40<alexrelis>koollman: IRC clients have to deploy workarounds for features missing in a protocol.
14:42<koollman>true
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14:43<koollman>(of course, I'm sure one can argue that the lack of those features is in itself a feature :) )
14:44<alexrelis>zoke: Okay. But message history, threads, image uploads, federation, and granular moderation tools are nothing but beneficial to a chat that exists as a support channel.
14:45<alexrelis>I believe you can even login as a guest in Matrix.
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14:46<zoke>alexrelis: how many times would said history actually be used? People will not scroll through history to find their answer, they will (and should) ask their question
14:46<zoke>as all cases will most likely differ
14:47<alexrelis>zoke: In instances where I ask a question at 12:00 PM and wake up looking to see if anyone responded.
14:47<zoke>and a support channel spammed with images will be a pain to work with
14:47<alexrelis>I never used a modern messaging protocol and though, "oh no, this protocol has the ability to send images, read message history when I'm not connected, and encrypt messages end to end!! I wish there was a chat protocol that didn't have those things!
14:47<koollman>I don't strictly disagree with matrix, but I wouldn't want to run or maintain a matrix server, or deal with people in there, or connect to it. But I wouldn't stop you from trying to start the service and informing people they can go there. I just don't think it's worth the effort, and it would probably fragment the community a bit more
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14:48<zoke>alexrelis: that's why the majority of users on IRC use screen (or similar)
14:48<alexrelis>Well what's great about Matrix is that it attempts to stop the "network effect" with bridges to other networks.
14:49<zoke>also, if you are no longer connected chances are noone will bother answering your question
14:49<koollman>I am on some channels using bridging. It's generally ... not great. Not terrible, though, so it can somewhat work
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14:49<alexrelis>zoke: And that's part of my point. The fact that you have to do workaround after workaround to do what is considered basic functionality on any modern messaging protocol is a point in of itself.
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14:51<zoke>alexrelis: and modern message protocols are fragmented and bloated, and for me at least have a poor user experiance
14:51<koollman>(also, obligatory xkcd reference: https://xkcd.com/1782/ )
14:51<zoke>koollman: spot on
14:52<alexrelis>zoke: Matrix has command line clients that aren't bloated electron apps.
14:53<alexrelis>koollman: lol.
14:54<koollman>to put some more practical perspectives : I do run some irc servers (for another network). If that network moved to matrix, or partly matrix, I probably would not want to help much with the matrix side of it, and hosting it would bring all kind of troubles, from technical (matrix servers aren't exactly nice to run), to legal troubles (a network system that pass messages around but does not store them is
14:54<koollman>different from one that host the content, in my country. more work required to stay 'clean' legally)
14:54<zoke>imo the last good message/chat app was probably icq (pre 2000) after that everything went to shit
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14:57<alexrelis>zoke: ICQ was just a nonfree implementation of IRC.
14:58<alexrelis>koollman: Interesting perspective from the administrative side of things.
14:58<alexrelis>Luckily there are plenty of instances out there that are already set up and maintained and would gladly host Debian's channels.
14:59<koollman>alexrelis: sure. But I assume the would have similar legal problems, and it would be *at least* as complex as, say, asking if someone should host the logs of every discussion here to provide them publicly on internet (and what happens if there are legal inquiries relative to that)
15:00<zoke>I guess another issue is that there should be at least one client to whatever protocol in the debian repositories (main) for it to even be considered an alternative
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15:01<koollman>zoke: that's probably the easiest thing to solve :)
15:02<zoke>koollman: depends a lot on license for said software
15:03<alexrelis>zoke: There's plenty of Matrix clients. https://wiki.debian.org/Matrix
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15:03<koollman>yeah, I was about to say, there's at least one. matrix-mirage.
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15:03<alexrelis>zoke: Matrix itself is free software. And so are the vast majority of clients.
15:04<zoke>main fact though is that this channel is well established and the possible benefits probably does not merrit a migration
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15:04<zoke>given the amount of work it would take
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15:04<pamela>hello'
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15:06<bremner>alexrelis: we've been round this discussion before. If you want to help with the Debian presence on matrix, by all means do so. I won't be joining you there.
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15:07<alexrelis>Fine.
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15:07<koollman>as a side note, I did run matrix servers in the past, at various points. Still not convinced by the quality, or rather lack of it. It doesn't feel like 'finished' software yet. It might have changed. Synapse was really hard to scale, the 'nice' features were going mostly in dendrite (but it was unstable), and the other servers were too unfinished to really use them in federation without troubles
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15:53<truth>Is the repository at http.us.debian.org taking longer to synchronize than ususal?
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15:54<truth>$ apt-get update
15:54<truth>is complaining...
15:54-!-alexrelis1 [~Thunderbi@89.45.90.140] has quit []
15:54<truth>Err:39 http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable/main all Contents (deb)
15:55<truth>File has unexpected size (33060702 != 33129656).
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16:40<truth>The error stopped when I used different repositories.
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17:02<alexrelis1>truth: are you using the official Debian repos?
17:04<truth>I stopped using http://http.us.debian.org.
17:10<truth>alexrelis1, ^
17:11<alexrelis1>truth: try deb.debian.org. If I'm not mistaken, it will automatically find the closest mirror based on your public IP address.
17:11<alexrelis1>Hold on... brb...
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17:12<alexrelis>Okay I'm back. Just for disconnecting for 1 second I lost my nick. Got it back now.
17:14<truth>Is there a mirror repostory of debian packages that uses secure sockets, "https:"?
17:15<truth>Oops. I meant to ask if there is a mirror repostory of debian DEBUGGING SYMBOL packages that uses secure sockets, "https:"?
17:15<somiaj>Some do use https, though unsure what ones do
17:16<jmcnaught>I think you can use https with https://deb.debian.org/
17:16<somiaj>yea, I would suspect the cdn to support https
17:17<alexrelis>If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't provide much security benefit as packages are verified via pgp signatures.
17:17<somiaj>Some think it adds a privacy sheild, but someone could still tell what packages you download bsed on the filesize
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17:17<somiaj>Though if apt were written today, it would of course use https by default, there just isn't much gained by using https
17:19<alexrelis>Well, guess I'll edit my sources.list then.
17:20<alexrelis>To prevent three letter agencies from knowing I installed xteddy.
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17:22<somiaj>it won't do that
17:23<somiaj>someone can just look at the file sizes you download and conclude what package you installed
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17:28<Habbie>somiaj, here's one where https could have helped - https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4371
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20:42<A|an>Is this BS: https://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/debian-11-is-broken/
20:43<bremner>probably?
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20:43<bremner>I didn't read it, but many people are happily running Debian 11 in production.
20:43<bremner>So, is there a more specific question you'd like to ask?
20:43<A|an>nope
20:43<A|an>surfing twitter and came across that
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20:44<raven523>this is uninformed. The /dev/sd* nodes have never had a consistent ordering. This is why you should use fstab entries that match on UUID, PARTUUID, ro LABEL
20:44<raven523>this problem happens on other distros too
20:45<rwp>It's a Linux kernel thing common to all distros and is not Debian specific.
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20:46<nr0q_radio>probably written by a Microsoft Nut
20:46<rwp>Note that LVM uses UUIDs internally so using LV names are always stable too without seeing the UUID being used behind the scenes.
20:47<A|an>but...the author of the paper linked sez it means that Deb11 won't boot <blink-blink>
20:47<nr0q_radio>the author of the article is an idiot
20:47<A|an>seriously
20:48<A|an>I love twitter:)
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20:51<A|an>bremner: "running Debian 11 in production"...did you know that there's a distro called siduction
20:52<A|an>it was news to me
20:52<bremner>yes, I have heard of it. Some of the users / devs hang in #debian-next iirc
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21:36-!-sparky is "realname" on #debian
21:36-!-Maduro52 [~4564asdf6@159.147.104.150] has joined #debian
21:36-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
21:37-!-sparky [~sparky@45.233.78.151] has quit []
21:49-!-Brigo [~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05-!-callmepk [~callmepk@n11649162141.netvigator.com] has joined #debian
22:05-!-callmepk is "Patrick Wu" on #linode #debian
22:06-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@ec2-52-15-173-116.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
22:06-!-trekkie1701c is "The Trekkie" on #debian-raspberrypi #debian
22:07-!-cozmo [~user@c-73-235-114-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:07-!-cozmo is "user" on #linux #debian
22:07-!-banc [~banc@217.151.98.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:13-!-cosmo [~user@c-73-235-114-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:13-!-cosmo is "user" on #debian
22:13-!-cozmo [~user@c-73-235-114-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:13-!-minimal [~minimal@0002b71e.user.oftc.net] has quit []
22:13-!-arifendronugroho [~arifendro@114.10.19.50] has joined #debian
22:13-!-arifendronugroho is "arifendronugroho" on #debian
22:17-!-Abrax [~Abrax@0002a5e4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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22:23-!-zbychuk6 is now known as zbychuk
22:23-!-banc [~banc@217.151.98.168] has joined #debian
22:23-!-banc is "banc" on #debian
22:24-!-ChmEarl [~prymar56@0002b86c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:25-!-arifendronugroho [~arifendro@114.10.19.50] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:28-!-CeBe [~cebe@2a02:560:4c59:ef00:49af:e7f9:121d:f992] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37-!-CeBe [~cebe@2a02:560:4c6c:4f00:b873:201f:a9ba:3f8f] has joined #debian
22:37-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian #packaging
22:39-!-handsome_feng [uid428458@00028e60.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:39-!-handsome_feng is "Jianfeng Li" on #debian-kde #debian
22:39-!-donfede [~donfede@casagrau.org] has joined #debian
22:39-!-donfede is "Fede" on #debian #debian-next #debian-dc #debian-salt
22:39-!-donfede [~donfede@casagrau.org] has left #debian []
22:40-!-donfede is "Fede" on #debian #debian-next #debian-dc #debian-salt
22:40-!-donfede [~donfede@casagrau.org] has joined #debian
22:43-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:47-!-nuc_ [~nuc@2001:16b8:2a1a:9d00:2dd0:8063:55c8:961a] has joined #debian
22:47-!-nuc_ is "realname" on #debian
22:51-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: real life interrupt]
22:54-!-nuc [~nuc@2001:16b8:2adb:ca00:86e7:5e05:186d:5ff9] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:54-!-Abrax [~Abrax@0002a5e4.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:54-!-Abrax is "Abrax Tryke" on #freedombox #tor #virt #ceph #debian #videogames
22:55-!-Abrax [~Abrax@0002a5e4.user.oftc.net] has quit []
22:55-!-aloo_shu [~aloo_shu@79.116.107.42] has quit [Quit: I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world.]
23:05-!-Abrax [~Abrax@0002a5e4.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:05-!-Abrax is "Abrax Tryke" on #freedombox #tor #virt #ceph #debian #videogames
23:11-!-RedSoxFan07 [~Thunderbi@d-159-250-218-50.ct.cpe.atlanticbb.net] has joined #debian
23:11-!-RedSoxFan07 is "RedSoxFan07" on #debian-next #debian
23:11-!-callmepk [~callmepk@n11649162141.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
23:31-!-euandreh [~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:2cf4:5f96:7154:f400] has joined #debian
23:31-!-euandreh is "EuAndreh" on #debian-devel-br #OpenBSD #pax #perl #suckless #C #pipewire #fdroid #mesonbuild #haiku #po4a @#debian-18n #debian
23:34-!-wololoer [~user@00022ff6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4]
23:35-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:35-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #dri #dri-devel #oolite #tor #oftc @#yugiohjcj #llvm #debian
23:53-!-chipps [~chipps@2600:8807:c0c3:6200::51d1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
---Logclosed Sat Dec 25 00:00:00 2021