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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-25

---Logopened Sat Dec 25 00:00:00 2021
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00:33<enigma9o7[m]>maybe its a eufi/bios boot thing... i
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00:36<enigma9o7[m]>nvm just read it, its a scsi issue from kernel i guess. i havent used scsi drives in many years and I bout many others do today either. "Beginning with kernel 5.3 the order in which SCSI devices are probed and named has become non-deterministic. This is a result of a change that was submitted to add asynchronous device probing.The probing happens asynchronously on a per-device basis, so even devices on a single bus can appear in "random"
00:36<enigma9o7[m]>order."
00:36<raven523>I thought it was non-deterministic for SATA, USB, and some other buses too
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01:05<maxzor>what is the use of a symbol file in a debian source package? I don't see them installed.
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01:12<Blondie101010>https://manpages.debian.org/testing/dpkg-dev/deb-symbols.5.en.html seems to give a pretty good idea
01:12<maxzor>"but I'm still very much not convinced that this is a useful use of a packager's time."
01:13<maxzor>https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/journal/2012-01/008.html
01:13<maxzor>linked here -.- https://wiki.debian.org/UsingSymbolsFiles
01:15<Blondie101010>not sure I get your question then
01:16<maxzor>I had not seen that they were installed, thank you
01:16<Blondie101010>it basically gives essential packaging information
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01:18<maxzor>is there any tooling to generate such files other than dpkg-gensymbols? The library that I am trying to package contains a lot of mangled symbols so it is quite unreadable, and dh_makeshlibs is vomiting me to the face :)
01:20<Blondie101010>you didn't look at my link :)
01:20<Blondie101010>go near the bottom
01:20<Blondie101010>it's a simple file
01:21<maxzor>oO the see-also
01:28<maxzor>am I to understand that there is a project to improve the tool, that started 15 years ago?
01:29<maxzor>https://wiki.debian.org/Projects/ImprovedDpkgShlibdeps
01:29<maxzor>I got lost in the labyrith
01:30<maxzor>I know about the UsingSymbols wiki entry, the symbol file I have issues with was generated by me running 'dpkg-gensymbols -v<version> -plibfoo -P/tmp/libfoo -Olibfoo.symbols'
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01:49<maxzor>I had cared about not having the packaging info "-1~exp1" in the lib.symbols, but gbp buildpackage has built debian/mylib/DEBIAN/symbols with this packaging suffix
01:51<maxzor>insofar for all the libraries of the project, I did not see any 'symbols' file installed oO https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team
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03:04<jcbjoe2021>Merry Christmas 😁
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03:54<jcbjoe2021>2 questions, i did a apt update && apt upgrade and it installed a new kernel linux-image-amd64 (5.10.84-1) but i rebooted and im still on old kernel. also im trying to upgrade to 11.2 and did a apt full-upgrade and still on 11 any ideas what im doing wrong?
03:55<raven523>do you use a separate /boot filesystem? if so, was it mounted?
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04:09<jcbjoe2021>raven523: everything was installed via Debian installer non free
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04:11<raven523>I don't remember how that handles /boot
04:14<jcbjoe2021>raven523: i did ls /boot/ and it only shows me the old kernel wierd
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04:37<jcbjoe2021>raven523, im thinking the 4.10.84-1 is just meta information probably, im looking at apt-cache search linux-image and it has a lot but latest is like 5.14 and i didn't install it
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04:38<jcbjoe2021>5.10.84-1*
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04:43<sussudio>,kernel
04:43<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.14.0-trunk-686-pae (5.14.3-1~exp1); sid: 5.14.0-1-686 (5.14.6-3); bullseye: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-5); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.8-686 (5.10.46-4~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-17-686-pae (4.19.194-3); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.17-686-pae (4.19.194-3~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
04:43<judd>4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1); bookworm: 5.14.0-1-686 (5.14.6-2); bullseye-backports: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-5)
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04:47<jcbjoe2021>So I'm on the right one
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04:53<jcbjoe2021>So since im new to. Debian still when you apt upgrade it just upgraded the package like Linux-image m-amd64 is that right?
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04:55<raven523>linux-image-amd64 is a meta package that always pulls in the latest linux-image-*-amd64 package
04:55<raven523>right now debian bullseye's linux-image-amd64 depends on linux-image-5.10.0-10-amd64
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05:02<Sqrt{Not}>jcbjoe2021, does your /boot partition have lots of free space in it? a new kernel version requires 3 (or more) pretty large files in there.
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05:20<jcbjoe2021>Sqrt{Not}: I'll check tom . Thanks
05:20<jcbjoe2021>Tomorrow*
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06:14<agarwood>hi guys ! I have two computers... computer01 is having a /home that I want to send by ''rsync -Pahh -e ssh /home agarwood@000.000.0.000:/mnt'' to computer02 that have a harddisk I mount with : mount /dev/sdx /mnt
06:14<agarwood>then I get ::: rsync: [receiver] mkstemp "/mnt/home/agarwood" failed: Permission denied (13)
06:15<agarwood>I search on the web but can't find my scenario...
06:15<raven523>does /mnt/home/agarwood exist?
06:16<agarwood>yes
06:16<agarwood>no
06:16<agarwood>sorry
06:16<raven523>what about /mnt/home?
06:17<agarwood>it's actually my destination, right ?
06:17<agarwood>I haven't mkdir anything
06:17<agarwood>on /mnt
06:17<raven523>it sounds like you might need write permissions on /mnt
06:17<agarwood>on computer02
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06:18<agarwood>yes that's what sorted out from the researchs I have done on the web, to write proper permission
06:19<agarwood>well, so I will try it asap, thanks raven523... in case of fail, I will come back, thanks
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06:43<netfrog>hey, i get an error: /usr/bin/doveadm pw -r 5 doveconf: Fatal: Error in configuration file /etc/dovecot/conf.d/10-ssl.conf line 12: ssl_cert: Can't open file /etc/letsencrypt/live/mx.example.com/fullchain.pem: Permission denied can someone help please?
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06:44<zoke>netfrog: you have the information you need right in that error message...
06:44<raven523>does that file exist? if so, what are the permissions on it?
06:45<netfrog>i changed the permissions to root:www-data was it wrong?
06:45<raven523>now dovecot won't be able to read it
06:45<zoke>which user does dovecot run as?
06:46<zoke>and did it work before changing the permissions?
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06:47<netfrog>no it didn't work before
06:47<netfrog>how can i lookup wich user is devocot
06:48<raven523>I don't remember if dovecot reads the ssl certs before dropping privileges or not
06:49<jmux>Maybe start with: https://doc.dovecot.org/configuration_manual/dovecot_ssl_configuration/
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06:50<raven523>according to that it should be owned by root
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06:52<zoke>what are the permissions on the file? 0640?
06:53<raven523>what about on /etc/letsencrypt/live and /etc/letsencrypt/live/mx.example.com ?
06:54<netfrog>it's a link to -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3749 Dec 13 02:16 chain1.pem
06:55<zoke>so it's readable by anyone... then one of the parent folders is causing the permission issue
06:55<netfrog>drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Dec 13 02:16 mx.example.net
06:56<netfrog>drwx------ 5 root www-data 4096 Dec 25 10:53 live
06:56<zoke>that's the one
06:57<raven523>probably need to chmod g+rx live
06:57<zoke>need at least +x to be able to access subfolders/files
06:57<zoke>+r is not needed iirc
06:59<netfrog>i change it to drwx--x--- 5 root www-data 4096 Dec 25 10:53 live thank you
07:00<bremner>netfrog: I think the clean solution is to add a "hook" to certbot that copies the files to the dovecot dir
07:00<netfrog>but still the same errpr
07:00<zoke>check all parent folders as well...
07:01<bremner>in particular you probably don't want the private key world readable
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07:02<netfrog>there is no oarebt folder just /etc/
07:03<netfrog>oarebt=parent
07:03<zoke>just checked on my dovecot server (may be a bit outdated) and the certs are root:root 0600
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07:05<zoke>key is 0600... cert is 0644
07:05<bremner>yep, that sounds right
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07:06<bremner>netfrog: if you want to know more about the hook approach, search for "letsencrypt renewal-hooks"
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07:08<netfrog>the arive/mx... directory was wrong, now its works but i get still an error from roundcube ok thx
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07:20<EmleyMoor>When I viewan HTML email in Claws Mail, I can "Open" it - but this does so in Firefox, probably through xdg-open. Is there a way to change to another browser for this?
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07:21<ham5urg>Is it possible to treat recommends as if they were depends? In default installations I would like to handle recommends as if they were depends for easier deinstallation.
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07:35<jmux>EmleyMoor: xdg-open uses / sets the BROWSER env. No idea about claws. $ grep BROWSER /usr/bin/xdg-open
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07:36<jmux>And (x-)www-browser is an alternative
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07:37<msaudi>Hello, I sent a bug report to submit@bugs.debian.org and debian-kernel@lists.debian.org How can I make sure it was delivered?
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07:39<jmux>ham5urg: IAFAIK --install-recommends is the default since some time. At least I use --no-install-recommends most times. Then there is apt autoremove, which should get rid of automatically added packages.
07:39<raven523>msaudi: try searching for it here: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/
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07:41<msaudi>Thank you
07:41<jmux>msaudi: and you should get an auto-reply from BTS
07:41<ham5urg>jmux, e.g. package a and b are installed. recommends_a are installed and sometimes these are also optionals_b. If package a got deinstalled, not all recommends_a are deinstalled.
07:42<ham5urg>That's why I would like to handle recommends as depends.
07:44<jmux>ham5urg: but then they would also become depends for b, if that feature existed, or what am I missing?
07:45<jmux>There is no info about "these recommends were installed by a, not b". There is just the info: "these packages were auto-selected"
07:46*jmux … or something has completely changed in apt in the last years…
07:47<ham5urg>Jmux. Not if recommends_a are optionals_b.
07:47<ham5urg>Jmux. Yes, that is correct and makes it hard to maintain a system without adding more and more packages over time.
07:47<ham5urg>autoremove does not target all desired packages
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07:48<jmux>ham5urg: optionals == suggestions?
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07:48<ham5urg>jmux, sorry, yes, you are right
07:54<jmux>ham5urg: so you actually want the suggestions status to be ignored on autoremove. I don't think that is possible. Nothing in apt-get or apt.conf looks like it.
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07:56<jmux>apt just knows the suggested package was installed automatically, but not via which package (AKA via --install-suggests or something else)
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07:58<ham5urg>jmux, yes, that is what it's making hard to have a clean system over time. I missed the words to describe it.
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08:06<jmux>ham5urg: I guess you could write some script with python or perl, check all auto-packages, if they are just installed via suggest and then remove these.
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08:09<jmux>Probably even with some complex aptitude search term and filtering, like in https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/aptitude/ch02s04s05.en.html
08:11*jmux used libapt-pkg-perl for this kind of stuff, today would prefer python-apt
08:11<ham5urg>I see, I will look into python-apt
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08:57<spawacz>My xfce on debian just broke. I was using it as usual and suddenly it stopped reacting to commands, clicking buttons did nothing, and after reboot i get "xf86EnableIOPorts: failed to set IOPL for I/O (Operation not permitted)"
08:57<spawacz>I've been using it for years, didnt do updates recently, it just broke
08:57<spawacz>randomly
09:00<spawacz>there are no errors in xorg log
09:04<spawacz>i've tried startx as a separate user and also as root later but it does not work either
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09:04<spawacz>something broke really bad
09:04<bremner>do you normally use startx or a display manager?
09:05<spawacz>OOOF
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09:05<spawacz>i fixed it
09:05<spawacz>but i broke it in first place
09:05<spawacz>i didnt know that may cause it
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09:10<jmux>spawacz: and now you tell us what broke it, so we can avoid that?
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09:14<spawacz>i built a library from source and placed it in /usr/local, xfce picked it up and it seems it didnt like it
09:14<spawacz>i removed it and it worked fine
09:15<spawacz>i am doing some gui program with wxwidgets gtk, i was annoyed by a memory leak. So I decidedi will rebuild libfontconfig.so from source to get exact place where it leaks (because the package from repositories got no debug info)
09:15<spawacz>and it broke the xfce for some reason
09:15<spawacz>it's a basic hello world program so there's no way it leaks in my code
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09:29<another>EmleyMoor: Use the "Open with" option?
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10:41<fanto666>Hello, is packages.debian.org obsolete or does it have a problem? When I search for some packages, old versions are shown up, e.g. packages.debian.org/firefox-esr
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10:45<olasd>fanto666: the information looks up to date to me
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10:46<fanto666>I see 78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1 for bullseye
10:47<fanto666>I'm sure I have 91 for some days
10:48<fanto666>~6 days
10:48<raven523>it looks like that newer version is in bullseye-security
10:48<olasd>ah, you're right
10:48<sussudio>,v firefox-esr
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10:48<judd>Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 78.14.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 78.15.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1; bookworm: 91.4.0esr-1; sid: 91.4.0esr-1; bullseye-security: 91.4.1esr-1~deb11u1
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10:49<raven523>78.15 is what is in bullseye/main
10:49<Karlton>91.4.1esr-1 is in bullseye-security
10:50<Karlton>look at: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
10:50<fanto666>that's it - we should see it as such marked as 91.4.1esr-1~deb11u1 [security] IIRC
10:52<fanto666>IIRC security updates were shown like this on p.d.o
10:53<olasd>yeah, the packages.d.o code needs an update for the new layout of the security archive post-bullseye
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10:54<olasd>it hardcodes "${suite}/updates"
10:54<fanto666>aha! is there a metapackage for p.d.o?
10:54<olasd>fanto666: it's under www.debian.org
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10:59<olasd>(with usertags User: www.debian.org@packages.debian.org; Usertags: packages)
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11:12<fanto666>I see bug #992258 filled about this (and also update of stable to bullseye, which was fixed already)
11:12<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/992258 in www.debian.org (open): «www.debian.org: packages.debian.org still has stable=buster and doesn't know about bullseye-security»; severity: normal; opened: 2021-08-16; last modified: 2021-08-22.
11:17<enyc>thunderbird to follow, aiui, will break 'movemail' support (rare case aiui)
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13:19<ferdinando>sera a tutti
13:19<ferdinando>per caso qui mi devo registrare con msg nick?
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13:20<ferdinando>hi i need register my with msg nickserv?
13:20<somiaj>ferdinando: /j #oftc to get help or /msg nickserv help
13:21<ferdinando>ok thanks
13:22<ferdinando>msg nickserv register Canada89 zacca06@gmail.com
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13:23*sussudio signs ferdinando up to the christian pc builder mailing list
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13:26<ferdinando>/msg NickServ SENDPASS Canada89
13:26<ferdinando>1640456757:E03FE001E7BD487423700600247AF8ED7E97DCB9
13:26<ferdinando>1640456757:E03FE001E7BD487423700600247AF8ED7E97DCB9 <Fulmine29>
13:28*nr0q_radio facepalms
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13:30<ferdinando>hi guys
13:30<rudi_s>ferdinando: Time for a new password
13:30<rudi_s>And better passwords in general.
13:30<ferdinando>?
13:31<rudi_s>ferdinando: "19:22 < ferdinando> msg nickserv register Canada89 zacca06@gmail.com", "19:26 < ferdinando> /msg NickServ SENDPASS Canada89" ...
13:31<rudi_s>Not sure what "19:26 < ferdinando> 1640456757:E03FE001E7BD487423700600247AF8ED7E97DCB9 <Fulmine29>" is.
13:31<ferdinando>to reset my password
13:31<ferdinando>but not changed ye
13:31<ferdinando>yet
13:31<rudi_s>Do that now ;-)
13:32<nr0q_radio>you'll want to send those to nickServ by using /nickserv
13:32<nr0q_radio>you left the leading / off
13:33<ferdinando>/msg NickServ
13:33<ferdinando>/msg NickServ SENDPASS Canada89
13:33<ferdinando>1640456757:E03FE001E7BD487423700600247AF8ED7E97DCB9
13:33<ferdinando>yes
13:33<ferdinando>but still not work
13:33<Sqrt{Not}>ferdinando stop sending that to us!
13:33<Sqrt{Not}>we see your Canada89
13:33<ferdinando>i need reset my passowrd
13:34<ferdinando>with new password
13:34<ferdinando>in wich tab i need to do that?
13:34<Sqrt{Not}>you are on KDE Konversation?
13:34<ferdinando>yes
13:35-!-tizef [~tyzef@202.153.81.154] has quit [Quit: tizef]
13:35<ferdinando>i am in KDE Konversation Sqrt
13:35<Sqrt{Not}>I don't know Konversation
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13:36<ferdinando>but when i send nickserv reset password still not work
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13:41<rudi_s>ferdinando: You need to open a query to nickserv.
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13:41<rudi_s>Check the documentation for your client how to do that. Normally you can use /msg nickserv .. but apparently what doesn't work.
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13:45<Jolein>can anyone point me in the right direction ? https://pastebin.com/zgtE7HAv
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13:45<Jolein>its about trying to get rgb backlight to work on a laptop
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13:47<somiaj>Where are you getting this module you are trying to buildf?
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13:49<Jolein>from the faustus git
13:49<somiaj>okay, so it appears it isn't built from debian. So it will be a bit diffucult for us to debug the actual issue with the module. But you can install 'dkms' if you want to manage automatic builds of that module with kernel upgrades
13:50<somiaj>I'm unsure if you need just that package or any other tools to use dkms to build that module on your system
13:51<Jolein>i understand that dkms is debian kernel modules, but i have no idea how they work or how to acces them
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13:51<Jolein>it askes me for a specific path that doesnt exist but should ?
13:52<Jolein>basicly i am trying to follow their guide on their github https://github.com/hackbnw/faustus
13:54<Sqrt{Not}>%dkms
13:54<dselect>Dynamic Kernel Module Support (DKMS) is a framework for generating out-of-tree Linux kernel modules. Packages using DKMS build modules during installation and when updated Linux versions are installed, provided Linux kernel headers are present (these are not installed by dkms). DKMS-managed modules are installed to /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/updates/dkms/ . The module build log file is at /var/lib/dkms/$module/$version/build/make.log
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13:59<Jolein>Sqrt{Not}: i am not getting it
14:01<Sqrt{Not}>https://wiki.debian.org/KernelDKMS
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14:03<Jolein>yeah i read that and it makes no sense to me
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14:05<revolt>hello
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14:05<Sqrt{Not}>hi, revo
14:05<revolt>guys, im looking for an smal and powerfull gallery
14:07<revolt>Sqrt{Not}:Hi
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15:04<BlackMage>hello
15:04<bittin^>hi
15:04<BlackMage>where does the error "su: pam_start: error 26" come from?
15:05<BlackMage>i am in a debian stretch chroot
15:06<BlackMage>and can't su into a user
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15:25<jmux>spawacz: FYI all debug packages are in an extra repo, at least for bullseye "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug/ bullseye-debug main". It has a libfontconfig1-dbgsym for me.
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15:36<spawacz>interesting
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17:07<ferdinando>hi
17:07<ferdinando>finnally i solved the problem about password nickserv
17:07<ferdinando>xD
17:07<ferdinando>thanks to Sqrt
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17:11<ferdinando>someone s online? i have hp 620 with intel core duo 2 with 2,10 ghz , 4gb ram and 500 gb of hdd will work proprerly debian with KDE desktop?
17:12<bittin^>try a live cd ?
17:12<ferdinando>i prefer to direct install
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17:13<ferdinando>because i dont like anymore preinstalled windows
17:13<ferdinando>i prefer to use open source software specially office software example libreoffice
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17:16<nr0q_radio>try the live CD, if it works, install it replacing windows
17:17<ferdinando>for sure i replacing windows
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17:19<ferdinando>i prefer to be free to choose my request in operating system in this case Debian Gnu/Linux because i am one of lovers to opensource software and specially keep out from viruses
17:20<ferdinando>and stop pay continues expensive licenses and save money for other things
17:21<nr0q_radio>so what's your to question?
17:21<ferdinando>system requirements
17:22<nr0q_radio>try the live CD, see if it works, if not try something else, the same cd also has an installer on it
17:23<ferdinando>i saw now the live cd the system uses from 2 % to 24 % of CPU usage
17:23<ferdinando>its very tiny usage
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17:23<nr0q_radio>that'll be what you can expect the installed usage to be like
17:23<ferdinando>yes
17:24<ferdinando>im so happy to install debian
17:24<ferdinando>for me ts a xmas gift
17:24<ferdinando>its a xmas gift
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17:25<nr0q_radio>so now you can run the installer, along the way it'll ask if you want to reformat your disk, or use free space, you can erase and res
17:25<nr0q_radio>use the space that windows was using
17:25<ferdinando>i will erase hard disk
17:25<ferdinando>i will use entire hard disk
17:25<nr0q_radio>there you go
17:26<ferdinando>kde desktop its similiar windows desktop
17:26<Sqrt{Not}>!install manual
17:26<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian 11 "Bullseye" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/installmanual . See also <errata> and <bullseye release notes>.
17:26<ferdinando>hi sqrt
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17:26<Sqrt{Not}>ferdinando, hi :) that install manual is full of useful information
17:27<ferdinando>Sqrt its a present italian channel debian irc?
17:27<ferdinando>or only this room?
17:27<Sqrt{Not}>that install manual has italian version
17:27<Sqrt{Not}>!it
17:27<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. - debian-italian@lists.debian.org
17:27<Sqrt{Not}>go to the install manual link I posted above, and choose italian
17:27<ferdinando>ok i will add to mybookmarks but lucky im canadian and italian
17:28<Sqrt{Not}>heh, I don't know if there is a translation into Canadian ;)
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17:29<ferdinando>ahahah
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18:29<xaseiresh_durg>Hi! I would like to know where I could ask a question regarding libinput on Debian 11. More precisely, I am trying to figure out how to set up right-click via touchscreen on a Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga 370.
18:30<xaseiresh_durg>The touchscreen itself works fine, touch gestures are all accepted, however I find no way to configure a method to right-click on touchscreen only. Libinput does have an option to configure right click by tapping with multiple fingers, however they explicitly say that for Touchscreens this should be handled by the "kit", and is not handled by Libinput any more. But there are no futher config options exposed for the touch
18:30<xaseiresh_durg>screen.
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18:36<xaseiresh_durg>It's not a vital issue, I can still right-click via the normal mouse touchpad. But it does ruin the experience of the convertible laptop a little by diminishing touch input options. Additional notes: The touch device is listed under xinput but only with a few basic config options, but is not recognized as Wacom panel in the settings, nor is it available for xsetwacom. libinput lists the option I want to configure
18:36<xaseiresh_durg>"tap-to-click" as n/a for the screen device.
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19:56<gnubie>Merry GNUvidad!
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19:59<Sqrt{Not}>%felix
19:59<dselect>hmm... felix is ketsup
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20:08<xaseiresh_durg>I need to hop off now, but I might come around later and ask my question again, it would be nice to have the aforementioned functionality. Good day!
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21:30<awal1>i need to copy more than 100 gb of files to an external disc (docs, audio, video, photos...). is "cp" appropriate for that?
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21:31<somiaj>It can work just fine, though many like rsync
21:31<somiaj>rsync can better catch errors and resume if needed
21:32<awal1>ok thanks
21:32<awal1>"resume" you mean exactly here?
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21:35<awal1>that is ok. i get it
21:35<awal1>thanks somiaj for your attention (Y)
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21:41<awal1>btw, files managers like thunar, pcmanfm have a built in copying feature or they call other utilities like cp, rsync...?
21:42<somiaj>It may depend, though my guess is it is built in, so not forking another program, but most likely using some libary
21:43<awal1>ok
21:47<argsh>I really need to do this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RddLUv9S5sQ ... my apologies if someone doesn't like it...
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 26 00:00:01 2021