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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-26

---Logopened Sun Dec 26 00:00:01 2021
00:02-!-wxsabi [~wxsabi@068-119-008-155.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:09-!-leo60228- [~leo60228@098-121-245-033.res.spectrum.com] has joined #debian
00:09-!-leo60228- is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #kernelnewbies #debian #asahi
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00:16-!-sinxccc is "sinxccc" on #debian
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00:59-!-artlogic is "artlogic" on #debian
01:01-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
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01:05-!-nuc__ is "realname" on #debian
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01:31-!-czesmir [~stefan@aeaf253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
01:31-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
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01:46-!-hele is "hele" on #debian-next #debian
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01:52-!-Gombye is "Gombye" on #retroshare #tor-uncensored #debian #monero
01:57-!-marvka [~marvka@static.63.58.108.65.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
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01:58-!-marvka is "marvka" on #debian
01:59-!-seeS [~quassel@193-119-53-82.tpgi.com.au] has joined #debian
01:59-!-seeS is "Craig" on #debian
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02:16-!-BenNZ is "Ben" on #vbox #debian #debian-next
02:20-!-czesmir_ [~stefan@aecw251.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
02:20-!-czesmir_ is "Stefan" on #linux #debian-next #debian
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02:20-!-revolt is "test" on #help #error #debian #linux
02:20-!-nuc__ [~nuc@2001:16b8:2a76:c000:d2e0:a6d9:b21:7887] has joined #debian
02:20-!-nuc__ is "realname" on #debian
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02:30-!-chipox is "realname" on #fdroid #security #replicant #debian
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02:30-!-seednode6 is "seednode" on #debian
02:32-!-truth [~fact@4G4AAFOPG.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:32-!-truth is "realname" on #monero #talos-workstation #bash #debian #oftc #debian-privacy
02:34-!-seeS_ [~quassel@193-119-53-82.tpgi.com.au] has joined #debian
02:34-!-seeS_ is "Craig" on #debian
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02:40-!-Ericounet [~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:1942:d738:9576:4e66] has joined #debian
02:40-!-Ericounet is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
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02:53-!-wxsabi is "wxsabi" on #debian
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02:56-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
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02:56-!-nuc__ is "realname" on #debian
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03:03-!-tizef is "tyzef" on #debian #nakedeb #3hg
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03:03-!-toto_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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03:11-!-dlehn is "David I. Lehn" on #debian #vtluug
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03:23-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
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03:26-!-ospring is "libert" on #debian #nakedeb
03:26<ospring>hi there
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03:28-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
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03:44-!-chipox is "realname" on #fdroid #security #replicant #debian
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03:45-!-chipox is "realname" on #fdroid #security #replicant #debian
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03:46-!-chipox is "realname" on #fdroid #security #replicant #debian
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03:51-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #dri #dri-devel #oolite #tor #oftc @#yugiohjcj #llvm #debian
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03:51-!-bertbob is "Bert" on #debian #debian-next
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03:51-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
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03:52-!-maxzor is "Maxime Chambonnet" on #wayland #debian #debian-next #packaging
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03:59-!-Maduro52 is "Si SI" on #debian
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04:02-!-Amo52 is "Si SI" on #debian
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04:03-!-aidalgol is "Aidan Gauland" on #debian
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04:06-!-mangix is "Rosen Penev" on #nouveau #debian #msys2 @#$nouveau #llvm #haiku
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04:11-!-chipox is "realname" on #fdroid #security #replicant #debian
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04:11-!-xubuntu is "xubuntu" on #debian
04:12<xubuntu>有人吗?
04:12<xubuntu>什么意思?
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04:15-!-_Matth_ [~Matth@2409:11:6400:6e00:816c:dda5:9c31:7099] has joined #debian
04:15-!-_Matth_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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04:20-!-nuc__ is "realname" on #debian
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04:34-!-netfrog is "realname" on #debian #debian-offtopic
04:35<netfrog>hello, i install postfixadmin and dovecot and have a permission problem: ssl_cert: Can't open file /etc/letsencrypt/live/mx.example.com/fullchain.pem: Permission denied, can someone help please?
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04:42-!-tagomago is "Tagomago" on #debian
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04:49-!-Talkless is "Talkless" on @#osm-lt #debian-next #debian
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04:49-!-Talkless is "Talkless" on @#osm-lt #debian-next #debian
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04:58-!-berkhan is "Berkhan Berkdemir" on #debian
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05:02-!-netfrog is "realname" on #debian
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05:02-!-terminaldweller is "john doe" on #virt #debian
05:02<Dentys>hi. I've installed debian 11 from liveCD. Now "install debian" keeps appearing on my desktop after each reboot. where should i write about this?
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05:05<sussudio>why didn't you use a netinstall cd instead
05:05<sussudio>netfrog: https://askubuntu.com/questions/636962/permission-issues-with-etc-ssl-certs-ca-certificates-crt and other google results for "ssl_cert permission denied"
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05:08-!-arnoldoree is "Arnold Opio Oree" on #virt #debian-tech #debian
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05:12-!-netfrog is "realname" on #debian
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05:12-!-marcurling is "marcurling" on #oftc #debian
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05:25<Dentys>@sussudio: most probably because i could use the liveCD . :) Any ideea about the proper place to write about this issue?
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05:25-!-netfrog is "realname" on #debian
05:26<xubuntu>u came from which courntry?
05:27-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
05:27-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #security #debian.or.at #debian-next #debian
05:28<Dentys>Romania, but i'm fine with english and OS locale is US english, utf8
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05:29-!-Mezz is "Mezz" on #help #debian-xfce #debian #aqi-data-share #freedombox #moocows #virt #redditprivacy #publiclab #packaging #oftc #biz @#gemu #kvm #ceph #llvm #Qubes_OS
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05:30-!-netfrog is "realname" on #debian
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05:30-!-colinmc2 is "realname" on #freebsd-clang #irssi #C #c++ #debian #OpenBSD #perl #awk #atari-home #bash
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05:30-!-jaqm is "KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on @#pkg-ossec #debian-mentors-es #debian
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05:33-!-MajorBiscuit is "MajorBiscuit" on #pipewire #panfrost #nouveau #dri-devel #postmarketos #fdroid #radeon #intel-gfx #linux #moocows #llvm #virt #oftc #freedesktop #haiku #debian #wayland #asahi-stream #asahi-gpu #asahi-re #asahi-dev #asahi
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05:34-!-netfrog_ is "realname" on #debian
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05:42-!-fax is "fax" on #OpenBSD #fdroid #oftc #debian #java #linux
05:42<netfrog_>sussuido its no a soulution for me its not help
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05:45-!-Gabx is "Gabx" on #bash #tor #kali-linux #tor-project #security #retroshare #Qubes_OS #i2p #debian
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05:48-!-netfrog is "realname" on #debian
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06:00-!-aloo_shu is "fighting credulity since 1895" on #YeOldeOldeStable #puppylinux #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
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06:01-!-Gabx is "Gabx" on #bash #tor #kali-linux #tor-project #security #retroshare #Qubes_OS #i2p #debian
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06:06-!-Mezz_ is "Mezz" on #help #debian-xfce #debian #aqi-data-share #freedombox #moocows #virt #redditprivacy #publiclab #packaging #oftc #biz #gemu #kvm #ceph #llvm #Qubes_OS
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06:10-!-Mezz__ is "Mezz" on #help #debian-xfce #debian #aqi-data-share #freedombox #moocows #virt #redditprivacy #publiclab #packaging #oftc #biz #gemu #kvm #ceph #llvm #Qubes_OS
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06:14-!-srgrint_ is "Simon Richard Grint" on #debian
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06:21-!-Brigo is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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06:53<cowflipper>hey, what am I doing wrong to download the non-free bookworm iso? i download https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/weekly-builds/multi-arch/iso-cd/firmware-testing-amd64-i386-netinst.iso but the installer is the stable debian 11 one?
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06:55<bremner>testing support is on #debian-next
06:55<cowflipper>thanks
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07:08<Guest9355>so i downloaded the .deb file for debian 11 from oracle`s website now what do i do with it?
07:08<Guest9355>sorry i the .deb file for virtual box
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07:09<zoke>Guest9355: "dpkg -i <deb-file>" if you wish to install it
07:10<Guest9355>@zoke thank you very much
07:10<zoke>an then probably "apt install -f" to sort out any missing dependencies
07:10<Guest9355>got it
07:10<zoke>s/an/and/
07:10<bremner>or just "apt install foo.deb"
07:10<bremner>err ./foo.deb
07:11<Guest9355>foo?
07:11<bremner>whatever it is called
07:11<zoke>foo == generic name
07:11<Guest9355>ok
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07:11<bremner>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metasyntactic_variable
07:13<Guest9355>nice
07:13<Dentys>I've installed debian 11 from liveCD. Now "install debian" keeps appearing on my desktop after each reboot. I would like for it not to appear there. where should i write about this?
07:13<bremner>you could try #debian-live, although you'll have to be patient.
07:14<bremner>or you could just remove the corresponding .desktop file
07:14<Dentys>it keeps reappearing that desktop file after i remove it from the desktop
07:16<bremner>I guess it would be faster to reinstall using an installer image than figure this out, but up to you.
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07:18<zoke>is it possible that some debian-insaller package is installed on the system?
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07:19<zoke>maybe debian-installer-launcher?
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07:19<Dentys>i have patience and the desire to solve it. That's why i'm on Debian. :)
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07:20<Guest9355>same
07:20<Dentys>Package 'debian-installer-launcher' is not installed, so not removed
07:20<sussudio>Dentys: what about debian-installer
07:21<gfs>Can the chromium package from flathub be trusted? It's not from the official developers of Chromium
07:21<zoke>what does 'dpkg -l "debian-installer*"' say?
07:22<zoke>gfs: only you can decide that
07:22<Wulf>Dentys: do you now have 1 or 2 OSes installed?
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07:23<Dentys>i have only one OS installed.
07:23<Dentys>Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
07:23<Dentys>| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
07:23<Dentys>|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
07:23<Dentys>||/ Name Version Architecture Description
07:23<Dentys>+++-=========================-============-============-=================================
07:23<Dentys>un debian-installer-launcher <none> <none> (no description available)
07:23-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@2a02:2f0e:7210:3d00:303a:11e6:7191:4abc] by debchange
07:23<sussudio>...
07:23<gfs>zoke: how? Can anyone jusr add a package on flathub even if it has malware? or is there like a vetting process?
07:24<sussudio>!flathub
07:24<sussudio>don't know why you're asking in here.
07:24<zoke>Dentys: try 'apt purge debian-installer-launcher'
07:25<gfs>sussudio: because the debian chromium package is outdated and I have to look for alternatives
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07:25<Wulf>zoke: why, if it's "un"?
07:26<aloo_shu>#ubuntu
07:26<zoke>gfs: no idea how flathub works. But only you can decide what sources to trust
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07:26<zoke>Wulf: can't hurt... and worth a shot
07:26-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*@2a02:2f0e:7210:3d00:303a:11e6:7191:4abc] by debchange
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07:27<Guest9355>gfs:worst case scenario why not try sandboxing chromium?
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07:28<bremner>dpkg: tell Dentys about paste
07:28<aloo_shu>I don't know if you ever noticed, but the people who are deciding what's 'outdated' (on what basis, exactly?), are *not* the same ones who are putting together a free linux distribustion for you
07:29<bremner>before everyone jumps on gfs, chromium is a problem, as is firefox. They are very hard to keep updated.
07:29<aloo_shu>so, in plain english, if somebody is calling my work shit, then it's absolutely up to them to provide something better
07:29<bremner>aloo_shu: that's enough thanks.
07:35<aloo_shu>you may notice that I'm not 'jumping on gfs', but pointing what, in my opinion, is closer to the root of the lroblem: that one person's 'outdated' is becoming another person's maintainance work
07:37<aloo_shu>so if one party is creating 'outdatedness' on a permanemt basis, then this is creating permanent pressure on totally different people, and eventually, conflict
07:38<bremner>aloo_shu: *shrug*. You may be right on the level of whether Debian should be irritated with google, but none of that is really helpful from the point of view of user support.
07:39<bremner>I'd just prefer we stay on-topic and friendly here. There are other venues for venting about Google / Mozilla.
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07:52<boud>Audio@bullseye question: users A and B have independent screens logged into Debian bullseye system X. User B has pulseaudio access to both analog and hdmi audio devices; user A only has access to hdmi. pactl list|wc gives 511 for user B, and around 330 or so for user A. I've checked things like: pulseaudio --kill --verbose, pulseaudio --check --verbose, systemctl --user status|stop|start pulseaudio,
07:52<boud>systemctl --user status|stop|start pipewire, ~/.asoundrc, files in .config/pulse/* . Any clues for debugging (how can user A get access to the analog device?) apart from a reboot?
07:53<sussudio>something about adding them to the "sound" or whatever group...
07:56<jmcnaught>boud: what is the goal? Each user gets audio on the HDMI audio output associated with their screen? How are you doing the multiseat?
07:58<at0m>sussudio: audio group :)
07:58<at0m>sussudio: but they can play audio, so they're probably there
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08:02<aloo_shu>bremner: it's not per se venting, it's an attempt to find more poignant forms of communication
08:02<aloo_shu>debian is having a pkg and distro release policy in which newest software is *not* the highest priority, and there are a lot of excellent reasons for that
08:02<aloo_shu>unfortunately, communicating all these reasons to anybody who's a little more new to the game, is quite a process, while transmitting a blunt message such as 'your browser is outdated', is depressingly easy
08:02<aloo_shu>so that, in my perception, is what I am/we are competing with, I need an equally short form to hopefully make people realize that their browser just sent them complain where the problem wasn't created
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08:04<aloo_shu>wow, that's a low threshold
08:05<aloo_shu>hope the 4 lines got through, anyway
08:06<boud>jmcnaught: the goal is that whoever is sitting in front of the actual machine should be able to access the analog audio. Currently B can, but A cannot.
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08:07<boud>sussudio: both A and B are in the audio group in /etc/group .
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08:07<jmcnaught>boud: by "independent screens" you do not mean to physical screens?
08:08<jmcnaught>s/to/two/
08:08<boud>I mean switching ctrl-alt-Fn where n is one of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
08:08<boud>So the same physical screen.
08:08<jmcnaught>boud: okay. which display manager are you using?
08:09<sussudio>i also thought you meant 2 physical screens.
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08:09<boud>B wmaker, A usually on i3, but the problem seems to be the same with A on console login with no X.
08:12<jmcnaught>boud: logind manages access to the sound card. It does this by granting facls on nodes in /dev/snd/ to the currently logged in user. I do not think that switching TTYs is enough to trigger a change, switching users in a DM like gdm3 would probably do it.
08:13<jmcnaught>boud: you could look at the output of "lsof /dev/snd/*" and "getfacl /dev/snd/*" to see which user(s) have access to the sound card currently.
08:14<jmcnaught>boud: maybe switching from default per-user pulseaudio sessions to a system-wide pulseaudio session would help your use case. Take a look at /usr/share/doc/pulseaudio/README.Debian
08:15<aloo_shu>boud: I can't check this now, but I would 't think pulseaudio running as a *per user* service could make this work, for the simple reason that alsa will only allow one single app to grab any one soundcard, so if one soundcard is meant to be shared between sound output from A's and B's session, then a global sound server will have to take care of that.
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08:18<aloo_shu>now, if pulseaudio running system wide, can manage differentiating per-user sink access alone, I don't know, if push comes to shove, you'd need per user pulse instances connecting to a systemwide pulse instance connecting to alsa
08:22<aloo_shu>i.e., pulseaudio's raison d'être is *being* this single app that grabs the alsa card(s), and presenting it/tnem as (a number of) pulse sink(s) that now, several apps functioning as pulse sources, can connect to, pulse taking care of mixing them automatically, if things are going well
08:26<boud>getfacl /dev/snd/* says that all are owner: root, group: audio ; lsof /dev/snd/* lists pulseaudi and user B for all the devices.
08:27<aloo_shu>if you want to only run per-user pulse servers, then you may have to look into pre-pulse hacks such as dmix, perhaps, i.e. make a single alsa card appear as two (or more) cards using only alsa-fu
08:30<aloo_shu>ehat I'm trying to suggest, is, that this isn't only a question of device ownership - even if 10 users own a device, still only one app can use it at a time, so this needs to be the app that mixes all the audio going to the device, and ideally, takes care of sorting out access rights on the way
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08:30<boud>Correction: there are differences depending on which tty is active....
08:31<aloo_shu>that app could be a _system wide_ pulse instance, at least, that theoretically is the pulse design idea
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08:33<aloo_shu>so, probably, first I'd attempt to use systemctl to find out how your systemd is starting pulse if you do not interfere manually
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08:41<boud>aloo_shu I'm happy to follow the recommended advice and avoid having per-user pulseaudio, so the question is how. I've found a possible explanation of my bug: user C (logged in on another tty) still had 'autospawn = yes' in .config/pulse/client.conf .
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08:42<boud>Suppose I'm trying to follow the advice of a system-wide management of pulseaudio.
08:43<boud>Should individual users do 'pulseaudio --start --verbose' at all? or better 'pulseaudio --kill --verbose' a few times?
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08:46<boud>Separate question: currently, the line-for-line difference between 'getfacl /dev/snd/*' for users A and B, each when switched to their own tty, is: user A has an extra line for each device user:<Ausername>:rw- .
08:47<boud>B does not have a similar line. Well, this is rather a clue than a question.
08:49<boud>Another question: should users do 'systemctl --user start pulseaudio' ? or in other words, would this count as accessing the system-wide pulseaudio, or would it count as user-level pulseaudio?
08:50*boud checks https://wiki.debian.org/PulseAudio
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08:52<boud>"Since Debian 9, Pulseaudio is managed by the per-user instance of systemd" - so is this no longer recommended, i.e. somewhat obsolete for Debian 11?
08:52<netfrog>hello, i install postfixadmin and dovecot and have a permission problem: ssl_cert: Can't open file /etc/letsencrypt/live/mx.example.com/fullchain.pem: Permission denied, can someone help please?
08:53<boud>So the wiki answers my question about pulseaudio --kill - this *is* recommended if we prefer systemd.
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09:03<aloo_shu>sorry I cannot answer for the recommendations that have been given in different contexts, I'm just a user who thinks he's knowing a bit about linux audio
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09:07<aloo_shu>but, to decipher the fine print for you, 'pulseaudio is managed by the per-user instance of systemd' doesn't necessarily imply a per-user instance of pulseaudio
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09:08<aloo_shu>hence why I recommended to use systemctl to find out how your systemd starts pulse
09:09<boud>aloo_shu Sure :), I'm not holding you responsible for updating the wiki. And I'm not complaining about volunteers. :)
09:09<aloo_shu>what I'm saying, the wiki might even be correct
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09:18<aloo_shu>both systemd and pulseaudio are geniusware, so I'm afraid that being on top of them, is requiring genius level documentation study - I suggested where to start if one wanted to go the systemd+pukse way, and I also hinted at a hack (dmix) if one wanted to get around that, although personally, I'd probably try going the systemd+pulse route first
09:19<boud>Users A and B have different processes (different PIDs) for /usr/bin/pulseaudio, according to 'systemctl --user status pulseaudio'.
09:19<boud>Main PID differs.
09:20<boud>the CGroups are CGroup: /user.slice/user-<userID>...
09:20*boud back later - thanks for the help :)
09:21<aloo_shu>do you have a third, systemwide pulseaudio? and is the current constellation a result of your kill & stop/start attempts, or the system configuration
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09:22<aloo_shu>you could at best make the pulseaudio of the user with the lesser access rights, a client to the pulse server of the user with access to both cards, if you want to go from where you are now
09:23<aloo_shu>would be less than elegant, but doable in principle
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09:30<aloo_shu>both systemd and pulseaudio are geniusware, so I'm afraid that being on top of them, is requiring genius level documentation study - no matter now you decide to go about, understanding pulse and how it connects to alsa, would be the bigger piece of work here unless you want to (ditch pulse altogether). getting your desired result w/o rebooting should be possible, but you'd need to
09:30<aloo_shu>think out what to start how - atm, I think that when both A and B want to use the shared soundcard, one of the two pulse servers will complain that it can't connect (while keeping running, which is why it's not terribly obvious when it isn't functional, the user notices when his volume controls are greyed out, for instance)
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09:45<boud>aloo_shu as root: # systemctl status pulseaudio gives Unit pulseaudio.service could not be found.
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09:47<boud># systemctl list-units |grep pulse gives nothing
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09:50<kali_>whoisdebchange
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09:53<sussudio>kali_ why are you failing at whois'ing people, is there nothing else to do in india
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09:58<boud>The current constellation is quite likely a result of pseudo-random kill & stop/start attempts.
09:59<boud>I don't know if I have a system-wide pulseaudio; 'systemctl status pulseaudio' as root seems to say that I don't have it available.
10:01<boud>/usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/pulse.conf /usr/share/alsa/pulse-alsa.conf have md5sums 39a4e32e5650095ce711aec10aaac3e9 dfcefffc99c22c15b35206eceba63898, are from 26 Feb 2021 - and I don't remember changing anyhing at the system level (as root) in relation to pulseaudio.
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10:04<aloo_shu>boud: ok thay basically means your scenario hasn't been foreseen by the people designing the defaults. as I see it, you could either create a systemwide pulse service, and configure the per-user systemd pulseaudio services to connect to that master server instead of looking for alsa cards
10:04<aloo_shu>or
10:07<aloo_shu>if out of A and B, one is your own account and always running, then as a hack, you could configure the other pulse server to connect the first pulse server, which would double as a traini g for ,ater setting
10:07<aloo_shu>as a training for later setting up a systemwide pulse server
10:11<boud>I'd be happy with either option - systemwide immediately, or first require A to connect to B as part of learning how this works.
10:12<aloo_shu>you'd have to search pulseaudio documention for those pulse modules that allow connecting pulse instances - the only constellation I' e tinkered with myself, was using simple http transport for streaming from a desktop's pulse server to a pulse server as an android app
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10:17<aloo_shu>ideally, you find modules that intelligently negotiate a connection
10:19<aloo_shu>I'm a jack user, and for running pulse alongside jack, such solutions exist, i.e. a set of sxripts and modules that automatically rewire a plse instance into a jack audio server instance if one is detected running
10:21<aloo_shu>so as somebody accustemed to using jack much more than configuring pulse routing, this would be my first try perhaps
10:22<aloo_shu>you got me curious now, hang on a while (30-60m)
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10:27<boud>Well, I'm glad to know that my problem appears to be non-trivial - so it's not just a case of me not RTFM-ing.
10:28<boud>aloo shu - OK, I'll check back here later to see your suggestions.
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10:48<donfede>hello - on my Debian 11 x86 install with XFCE as a desktop, the `Ristretto' image viewer app always begins fully maximized; is there a way to disable that and have it start as a normal-size window?
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10:49<donfede>similar with `lmms' audio drum beat+ composition sw
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11:02<aloo_shu>boud: sorry I'm
11:02<aloo_shu>disregard
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11:15<boud>aloo_shu, jmcnaught, sussudio: a reboot solved my multi-user-per-tty-session-bug for pulseaudio. :)
11:18<boud>I don't know if I have the terminology correct, but it seems that login procedures for users A and B independently started pulseaudio (and pipewire - I don't know if that's relevant) child 'pulseaudio' processes of per-user systemd processes '/lib/systemd/systemd --user' .
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11:19<boud>pactl list |wc gives 551 and 552 for the two users - so the analog device is clearly among these
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11:20<boud>'for the two users' means after switching to the user's tty
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11:24<boud>I did learn something from this, but it seems that Debian 11 out-of-the-box still *is* OK for this user scenario.
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11:51<Sqrt{Not}>Dentys, did you install using one of the installer choices from the live-system boot menu, or using the "install debian" icon inside a running live system (calamares installer) ?
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11:56<aloo_shu>boud: nice to know, that probably means that the pipewire sound server (which I haven't used yet) is delivering
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12:12<aloo_shu>personally, I was ready to break something when trying to elicit information about available modules from pacmd. no completions, no previous command, not even well functioning editing of current line at the pacmd prompt, second terminal needed to pulseaudio --dump-modules|less know which modules names I'm even searching information for, and then describe-module output that's at best
12:13<aloo_shu>serving as a cheat sheet to remember usage that one would need to have learned elsewhere
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12:22<Sqrt{Not}>aloo_shu, (talking from no experience with it here) That tangle does seem like one of the motivations for inventing pipewire.
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13:14<grove>Does anyone know how the parallel and moreutils packages avoid conflicting with each other? parallel provides `/usr/bin/parallel` (I have that installed), and `apt-file list moreutils` says it provides the same file, and it doesn't look like (but I only have one package istalled) they use the alternatives system
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13:17<bremner>grove: iirc they use dpkg-divert
13:18<Unit193>https://sources.debian.org/src/parallel/20210822+ds-2/debian/parallel.preinst/ you're right.
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13:27<bremner>I think there was a TC bug about those two packages
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15:08<Dentys><Sqrt{Not}>: I'm about 99.99% sure i used the "install debian" icon inside a running live system (calamares installer). I didn't follow the debian install instructions. I have an usb stick which can boot multiple ISO. Debian was there, booted the live CD, then installed from there. I had some hickups about no live-system found and no grub-pc missing, but i solved those. The only thing remaining is the install-debian which keeps
15:08<Dentys>reappearing on the desktop. Looks like some script is copying this on eto the desktop /usr/share/applications/install-debian.desktop . I am greping the sistem right now to find the script.
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15:30<Sqrt{Not}>Dentys, what Desktop environment (if any)? what window manager (if any)? Which live image ?
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15:36<Dentys><Sqrt{Not}>: gnome, wayland, debian-live-11.2.0-amd64-gnome.iso
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15:47<Dentys>this seems to be the culprit: /etc/xdg/autostart/calamares-desktop-icon.desktop:4:add-calamares-desktop-icon . Probably my installer exited early and this one didn't got disabled?
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16:00<Sqrt{Not}>Dentys, hmmm, I just noticed I have that icon on my debian 11 gnome system too. I installed from the regular installer, not the calamares, and I see that one at the top of the stack of icons on the gnome desktop.
16:02<Sqrt{Not}>Dentys, I notice that I can right click that icon, and see the option "remove from favorites". It's probably easier to do it that way -- let gnome do it for you, instead of fighting with it.
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16:04<ova>Hi! What is the reason behind jenkins not having an official package in debian (or did I miss it)?
16:05-!-jfred_ is now known as jfred
16:05<ova>Is it a licensing/trademark problem or is the problem simply that there's no one to maintain it?
16:07<Dentys>Sqrt{Not}: i have nemo as file manager because of the desktop issue. Probably thats why i haven't noticed the right click option to remove fro favorites.
16:07<sussudio>it was removed 5 years ago.
16:08<sussudio>https://tracker.debian.org/news/745937/removed-15653-6-from-unstable/
16:11<Dentys>i'll be rebooting now to test. BRB
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16:16<Dentys>removing this /etc/xdg/autostart/calamares-desktop-icon.desktop solved the issue. Thanks for the guidance'. Removing it from favorites won't prohibit that icon from reappearing.
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16:18<Sqrt{Not}>Dentys, OK, good job. . Glad you got it fixed :)
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16:36<kenyon>ova: https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2015/04/msg00209.html via https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/jenkins
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16:38<ova>kenyon: makes sense, thanks for the reply!
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17:06<user>hi
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17:07<Guest9380>yoohooo
17:08<Guest9380>bye guys
17:08<Guest9380>:/
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17:10<ova>Reading https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=761658v - Does Debian Bullseye when using resolved still fallback to Google nameservers or has this since been removed?
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18:07<spawacz>systemd-networkd claims it does not recognize "MACAddressPolicy", even tho it is in the manual
18:08<spawacz>i'd like to randomize MAC of my interface
18:08<spawacz>i'm on bullseye
18:08<somiaj>that sounds more like something in the .link file for the interface but not networkd
18:09<spawacz>[Match]
18:09<spawacz>Name=enp2s0
18:09<spawacz>[Link]
18:09<spawacz>MACAddressPolicy=random
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18:09<spawacz>i got kicked :(
18:10<somiaj>!paste
18:10<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
18:10<spawacz>yeah i thought 4 is little ;p
18:10<spawacz>anyways, i get this in journalctl "Dec 26 16:08:30 playground systemd-networkd[1593]: /etc/systemd/network/kabel.network:7: Unknown key name 'MACAddressPolicy' in section 'Link', ignoring."
18:11<somiaj>Yea, because as I said, that sounds like a property for the .link unit that configures the interface in the kernel, not networkd which is for bringing interfaces up/down
18:11<somiaj>I don't know the details, but I think you are editing the wrong file, and if you don't have a .link file for your interface, you can create one
18:11<spawacz>what should i look at?
18:11<spawacz>hmmm
18:11<somiaj>https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.link.html
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18:12<spawacz>oh
18:12<somiaj>as you notice that has both the [Link] section and that command, which is not the same as a .network unit
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18:38<scolby33>I am trying to install Debian 11 on my machine. The installer boots, but both the live image and my installed system get to a certain point in the boot process and then the system resets. I single-stepped the boot process with `{rd.,}systemd.confirm_spawn=yes` and found that the reset happens once udev is started (systemd-udevd.service). I was able to use IPMI to record the screen, and have transcribed the final logs here https://
18:39<scolby33>I haven't tried much debugging beyond this point, because I'm kinda stumped as to what even is going on. Does anyone have any thoughts?
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18:43<Sqrt{Not}>scolby33, your first message cut off at "https://"
18:44<scolby33>Thank you, it continued paste dot debian dot net slash 1224861
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18:54<DPA->Maybe there is something wrong with the acpi / ipmi of that machine. Maybe try adding "ipmi_si.tryacpi=0" to grub / the kernel command line?
18:57<scolby33>Oh, I forgot to mention that Debian 10 works just fine too
18:57<scolby33>I will give tryacpi=0 a try
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19:10<jgreen12>hi, currently trying to get laptop speakers to work and tried many troubleshooting steps. i can give lots of information, what do i need to provide to get help
19:13<scolby33>Maybe some luck with tryacpi=0: it made it to the sd driver detecting disks and the ccp driver enabling sev and psp. The final lines now are "firmware: failed to load amd/sev.fw (-2)"
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19:14<scolby33>But this was a "normal" error message back on Debian 10 and I have seen docs from AMD that this is not a worrisome error
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19:18<scolby33>Oh, HELLO. I was able to boot with "ipmi_si.tryacpi=0 modprobe.blacklist=ccp modprobe.blacklist=sd", now to figure out which one is actually doing it.
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19:22<scolby33>It was sd that did it...I wonder what's going on
19:22<Sqrt{Not}>jgreen12, give us a big-picture summary: what machine, what debian version, what sound programs running, what happens or doesn't happen?
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19:32<jgreen12>@Sqrt{Not} A Latitude E6420 with an IDT 92HD90BXX which alsa's wiki claims to not officially support. I've gotten sound to come out of these laptop's speakers before. It's Debian 11. I followed pretty much every instruction listed here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting up to "Refreshing/reinstalling the drivers" since that is when the command seems to become Ubuntu-specific. I saw no real oddities on the out
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19:33<Sqrt{Not}>jgreen12, your message cut off after "oddities on the out"
19:33<jgreen12>step. my current roadblock is that "sudo aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav" says "ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1075:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
19:33<jgreen12>It said "I saw no real oddities on the output of commands leading up to that"
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19:33<jgreen12>and then the message continued with step.
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19:42<Sqrt{Not}>jgreen12, does dmesg mention missing firmware, or kernel modules? Why are you running your aplay test as root?
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19:45<jgreen12>unfortunately same result whether it's done as root or not. i see "failed to load iwl-debug-yoyo.bin" for iwlwifi but that should have no bearing on whether my speakers work or not yeah?
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19:49<Sqrt{Not}>yeah, wifi shouldn't matter here
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20:11<scolby33>Final update: like I said above, successful boot with `modprobe.blacklist=sd`, then shut down, waited a bit doing some other things, booted again, this time without setting the blacklist, and it booted successfully. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
20:13<jgreen12>i have work in the morning so i need to hop out soon but i do still need my sound fixed so if anyone knows any good help forums where i can drop my problem and wait for replies whenever that would be excellent
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20:32<bremner>I just upgraded a lenovo x220 from buster to bullseye, and I can't see the external HDMI display from xrandr anymore. It is connected via a displayport to hdmi adapter, but this was working a few hours ago (before the upgrade). Any ideas what might have changed? I suppose it's intel graphics.
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20:58<bremner>welp, answered my own question, it's just a matter of cold booting with the monitor on
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21:21<honhon>hello?
21:21<honhon>anyone here?
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21:22<Sqrt{Not}>hi honhon
21:22<enigma9o7[m]>~1500 people
21:22<honhon>sqrt
21:22<enigma9o7[m]>but thats not really a debian related question
21:23<honhon>can you guys help me in something?
21:23<enigma9o7[m]>how the fuck would we know?
21:23<enigma9o7[m]>you havent asked a question yet
21:23<honhon>L3MON
21:23<honhon>Im installing it
21:23<honhon>but I cant find the maindb.json file
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21:26<honhon>why the fuck no one is answering
21:28<Sqrt{Not}>honhon, what system are you installing onto? where did you get the software you are installing?
21:28<Sqrt{Not}>honhon, (and never mind enigma907's rude example, using swear words will actually cause more people to ignore you)
21:29<freq>skewl
21:32<honhon>Im installing L3MON on linux
21:32<honhon>Parrot and kali
21:32<honhon>I got L3MON from github
21:32<Sqrt{Not}>!parrot
21:32<dpkg>Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on irc.libera.chat or the community pages https://docs.parrotlinux.org/community. Ask me about <based on debian> and <parrot-overnight>. If you are new to linux, try using Debian: http://www.debian.org.
21:32<honhon>its missing a gile
21:32<honhon>file
21:32<Sqrt{Not}>!kali
21:32<dpkg>Kali Linux https://kali.org/ is a security/penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but is different enough that we don't provide support in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or https://forums.kali.org/ Also ask me about <based on debian> and read https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
21:32<freq>hi
21:32<freq>kali p. nice
21:33<freq>!bluetooth
21:33<dpkg>Bluetooth is a wireless communications protocol (http://bluetooth.com/), about as secure as shouting. aptitude install bluez-utils; then run hidd --search as root. http://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser http://wiki.debian.org/Bluetooth/Alsa . For support of Qualcomm Atheros devices, ask me about <ath3k>. See also <btusb>.
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21:34<Sqrt{Not}>honhon, we don't know enough about kali or parrot to help. The robot told you IRC channels you can go to for those OSes.
21:34<honhon>the robot is blocking me
21:35<honhon>because I have anonsurf on
21:35<honhon>because I want to protect myself
21:35<Sqrt{Not}>which robot? where?
21:35<honhon>this society is full of hackers
21:35<honhon>Im not offing my anon
21:35<honhon>every other chat I enter
21:35<honhon>I get blocked
21:35<honhon>by IRC
21:36<Sqrt{Not}>did you try #kali-linux on irc.libera.chat or #parrotsec on irc.libera.chat ?
21:36-!-gerald [~quassel@h082218019119.host.wavenet.at] has joined #debian
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21:36<honhon>ok I will try
21:36<honhon>give me link
21:36<honhon>plz
21:37<Sqrt{Not}>irc.libera.chat is the FQDN of that irc server.
21:37<freq>https://forums.kali.org/
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21:39<freq>D:
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22:01<tuxd3v>neo tooki the red pill o.O
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23:46<truth>Why would the dig, host and whois commands fail to return domain names for IP addresses reported by tcpdump?
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23:48<Sqrt{Not}>truth, my first guess: because those commands don't have access to a working nameserver?
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23:51<Sqrt{Not}>truth, add the -v option to host, and see if it answers your question
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 27 00:00:03 2021