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#debian IRC Logs for 2021-12-27

---Logopened Mon Dec 27 00:00:03 2021
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00:46<truth>Sqrt{Not}, I added the -v option to host.
00:46<truth>host reported...
00:46<truth>Trying "160.159.10.45.in-addr.arpa"
00:46<truth>Host 160.159.10.45.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
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00:54<Dentys>truth: not all ip's have domain names attaches
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03:42<joshua>hey
03:43<joshua>can some one help me with some thing
03:43<at0m>!ask
03:43<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ See <smart questions><errors>.
03:43<joshua>or is it to early in the morning
03:43<at0m>joshua: on the internet it's always early morning
03:43<joshua>i am trying to make an ark server with debian
03:44<joshua>i tryed watchin many vids but their old
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03:44<joshua>i am on debian 11
03:44<joshua>with plasma desktop
03:45<substructure>By ark do you mean the game ARK: Survival Evolved?
03:45<joshua>i have steam and steamcmd installed
03:45<joshua>yes
03:45<joshua>but i cant find steamcmd to run
03:45<joshua>would it have installed in home dir
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03:46<joshua>just wondering
03:46<at0m>why vids when there's text support? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ark+server+debian for example returns https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=828200218 "Installing an ARK: Survival Evolved Dedicated Server on Debian, CentOS, and Arch Linux"
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03:46<joshua>yea but i am not a very fast reader and i learn by hands on stuff
03:46<at0m>can' search a vid for "steamcmd"
03:46<at0m>can't
03:48<joshua>or just an ark server i can use for lan partys
03:48<joshua>lol
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03:48<joshua>i do know how to port forward
03:48<joshua>but i just don't know how to make the server
03:49<joshua>and services
03:49<joshua>i guess no one wants to tackel this issue
03:50<at0m>you would port-forward in the server. a forwarded port is then accessible from the internet, unsollicited. better replace "router" with your model https://duckduckgo.com/?q=router+port+forward
03:50<joshua>or are they busy with other things
03:50<at0m>irc isn't a personal hotline. you ask, then wait
03:50<joshua>yes i know how to portforward
03:50<at0m>< joshua> i do know how to port forward
03:50<at0m>oh, *do*
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03:51<at0m>early morning ;p /me sips coffee
03:51<joshua>yummy coffee
03:51<joshua>lol
03:52<joshua>can i search for steamcmd in terminal
03:52<joshua>just wondering
03:52<joshua>how would i do that
03:53<at0m>find / -type f steamcmd
03:53<joshua>nvm
03:53<at0m>or if you have mlocate installed, locate steamcmd
03:54<at0m>locate is much faster since it creates an index
03:54<joshua>searched for it in start button thingy
03:54<joshua>and ran it in terminal
03:55<at0m>or, if you know you can run it but need the location from where it gets the executable, "whereis steamcmd"
03:55<joshua>how do u spell anon fully
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03:55<joshua>sorry dumb question
03:55<OD>I miss which
03:56<OD>Apparently which is evil now
03:56<joshua>i am not evil
03:56<joshua>o sorry
03:56<joshua>u mean witch
03:56<at0m>try "which bash"
03:57<at0m>which would return the exact path that would be executed. whereis can give a list of different paths
03:57<at0m>say, if the executable is also in a symlinked dir
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03:59<at0m>if $executable is not in $PATH, they wont give returns
03:59<at0m>you'd need to use find or locate then
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04:00<joshua>o ok
04:00<joshua>sorry
04:00<joshua>i am a linux noob
04:00<joshua>i try to learn
04:00<joshua>i might install pop os
04:00<joshua>not sure
04:01<at0m>there's only linux noobs, though some know lots about certain things, very few know 'all'
04:01<at0m>and how is that going to solve your issue?
04:01<at0m>installing pop os?
04:02<joshua>lol
04:02<joshua>sorry got off track
04:02<joshua>i know it won't solve my issue
04:02<at0m>and indeed, it's pretty quiet here these days. many irc from $work and are taking a break now
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04:04<at0m>joshua: doesnt https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=828200218 nicely lay out how to get steamcmd, and then where it is?
04:05<at0m>it has the whole howto.
04:05<at0m>if you follow that and then run into issues, ask there or here on the forum
04:06<joshua>ok thanks
04:06<joshua>thank you so much
04:06<OD>at0m: that's sort of wrong (this was news to me too)
04:06<OD>which can return the wrong path, it's not actually a standardised thing. It appears to usually just be a script that searches PATH
04:07<OD>I knew sort of this (but I thought that was the point) for example $(which time) is different to bash's built-in time (but again I usually wanted the actual program or an actual program)
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04:08<OD>There was an lwn article I found - can't find it now but yeah which is evil :/
04:10<joshua>it says SDL not found when i login to steamcmd as anon
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04:11<joshua>this was after it was waiting for user info
04:13<joshua>so how do i fix
04:13<joshua>it called SDL thread priority manager
04:19<joshua>how do i check to see if its installing in the dir i want it to
04:19<joshua>just wondering
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04:23<joshua>how do i reinstall my os cuz i think i messed up
04:23<joshua>or how do i undo every thing
04:27<at0m>OD: ok so not feeling sorry for not using which then =)
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04:28<at0m>joshua: reinstall everything? well, exactly like how you installed it in the first place
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08:24<joshua>hello again
08:24<joshua>how do i kill a process that is keeping me from deleteing a user
08:25<joshua>i have debian with plasma desktop
08:25<joshua>debian 11
08:27<petn-randall>joshua: `man kill` will tell you how to use that tool, which can kill processes.
08:28<amacater_>Use top to identify which process it is, then use kill -9 on the process number?
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08:43<tohoyn>I did "apt-get source guile-3.0" on debian unstable. the last entry of the changelog is 3.0.7-1 even though the version of guile in the system is 3.0.7-1+b1. how is this possible?
08:44<azeem>+b1 are binaryNMUs, i.e. buildd rebuilds that do not change the source package, hence no changelog entry
08:47<tohoyn>tx
08:47<tohoyn>where can I find the contents of the binary NMU's?
08:51<azeem>in the binary packages
08:52<azeem>tohoyn: anyway, why do you ask?
08:53<azeem>it's an implementation detail
08:55<tohoyn>azeem: building package theme-d gave errors in hppa, m68k, and sh4. all of these have version 3.0.7-1 (no b1) of guile-3.0-dev.
08:56<tohoyn>azeem: see https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=theme-d and https://packages.debian.org/sid/guile-3.0-dev
08:56<petn-randall>tohoyn: As new libraries migrate to sid, existing packages may break. This is probably more relevant in #debian-next, though.
08:56<azeem>those aren't official ports and don't get binNMUs automatically
08:57<azeem>so, in case you care about the testing migration of that package, those errors won't affect that
08:58<tohoyn>ok. I just want the package work on all architectures.
08:59<tohoyn>do you know if/when the b1 rebuild is going to be done for those three architectures?
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09:01<azeem>no, it's up to their debian-ports maintainers, and I don't think there's a good way to contact them (nor am I sure there actually exists somebody who still cares)
09:02<tohoyn>azeem: ok. the architectures for which the theme-d build fails are exactly those for which the b1 nmu has not been done.
09:04<azeem>are you the maintainer?
09:04<azeem>or upstream?
09:04<tohoyn>yes, both debian and upstream
09:04<azeem>then if you really want to, just make a sourceful upload I guess
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09:36<somiaj>tohoyn: look in /usr/share/doc/packagename, there should be an automatically generated changelog there stating that the binary upload was done, usually has the arch in the file name.
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09:55<tohoyn>somiaj: tx. that worked.
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10:18<pupx>Hi. I have both win10 and debian installed. On windows i can connect to wifi, but on debian I cant even see/enable network adapter?
10:21<Yonle>Heyya pupx, Mind knowing what's your Wifi card?
10:21<pupx>realtek rtl888 something
10:23<bittin^>irc setup on the buster laptop :)
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10:28<sussudio>,i firmware-realtek
10:28<judd>Package firmware-realtek (non-free/kernel, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Binary firmware for Realtek wired/wifi/BT adapters. Version: 20210315-3; Size: 899.5k; Installed: 2918k; Homepage: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git
10:29<azeem>they left
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10:43<ova>Commenting on https://blog.cloudflare.com/dont-use-apt-key/ - I think that their argument is useless. Their key got leaked and this in turn makes every installation that trusted their key and upgraded packagrs considered compomised. Because even if a key only applies to a single source and a MiTM attacker can modify a single package, that's enough to run code as root, compromising the
10:43<ova>entire system. Yes, their transport was https, but when used in combination with untrusted mirrors, https is next to useless with a leaked key and only adds additional TLS processing overhead. AFAIU. Right?
10:44<ova>It seems as if cloudflare now blames apt(-key) that it did not protect users from a leaked key and a fatal mistake on their end.
10:54<koollman>I agree at least partly with what they say. When I add a gpg key, I often mean "trust this key for one repository" and not for all of them
10:55<koollman>obviously, private keys should stay private
10:55<ova>Yes, it's of course a great feature that this can be done, I wrote this in a silly way.
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10:56<koollman>(so, indeed, 'signed-by' would be better, and I probably should modify my scripts to use it :) )
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10:59<bentham>Certainly the default apt semantics to trust all keys for every repository does not make sense.
10:59<earendel>the mirror or transport doesn't matter .. if it's signed, and you have the correct keys (heres the big problem) it's authentic
11:00<koollman>bentham: it makes sense as long as the keys are correctly managed. It's useful for all official mirrors, for example
11:00<bentham>I thought that there was a way to get around that.
11:00<earendel>the transport may matter if you want to get the authentic software (but can't, yet you know its the wrong one)
11:01<koollman>earendel: sure. But, even for my own gpg-signed packages, I probably wouldn't want to install them if they come from an unexpected repository ... it should probably raise some alarm :)
11:01<earendel>elaborate correctly managed. then we're in.
11:03<koollman>I guess those would be two very different use cases. official devs, vs 3rd-party (or internal). And I wouldn't mind tagging each apt source with the right set of keys
11:03<ova>As far as I understand, in a default configuration using http transport using signed-by does not bring any new security improvments, right? Because a single package is enough to gain root RCE.
11:03<earendel>koollman: im a noob still. but from what i get, it wouldn't get installed. the problem is to get right key(chain).
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11:04<ova>Okay, English is not my native language, perhaps a comma between "transport" and "using" would make it easier to get my point across?
11:04<koollman>ova: it would mean that package was signed-by the key you trust
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11:05<ova>Yes. But dedicating keys to single repositorites and not allowing any key to act as trust anchor for any repository does not bring security improvements.
11:05<koollman>ova: so, anyone messing with that mirror would have to sign the packages they want me to install with one of the keys my system think is ok. It's a bit harder if there are fewer keys
11:06<koollman>ova: it does help. Then, someone getting that key also need to gain control of the mirror (or to find a way to pretend being that mirror)
11:07<ova>That applies even without signed-by
11:07<ova>The attacker would still need to MiTM my connection somehow.
11:07<ova>Okay, yeah, I see what you mean.
11:07<koollman>ova: not in the same way. imagine I provide my packages, signed by my key, on my mirror
11:08<ova>Yeah
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11:09<ferdinando>hi
11:09<earendel>in theory you would want to get the root key right. like get it from a friend and a lan-party. then you can check other mid-level keys, if they are authentic, via web. the software is than again signed against those mid-level keys. (not sure the term, but you get it.. its like the adapter level. this would be like a 3 tier thing. that would be the least. i think)
11:09<ferdinando>i need to know how much ram use desktop KDE , XFCE
11:09<earendel>dig it?
11:09<koollman>earendel: that was easy to do in the past. Now you would have to meet ... people. And their germs. ;)
11:10<ferdinando>i have 4 GB ram installed on my laptop HP 620
11:11<earendel>~3-4kg of grown up sapiens sapiens is alien life forms.
11:12<earendel>im running out saliva.
11:12<earendel>go ahead.
11:13<earendel>you don't think you can make that a point? that would be a point after a point after a point ...
11:13<ferdinando>who can help me please?
11:13<azeem>ferdinando: it depends on what applications you run
11:14<earendel>ferdinando: top, ot htop
11:14<ferdinando>earendel its not ot its support question
11:15<ferdinando>azeem in generally use firefox or thunderbird but i have desktop effects enabled
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11:15<earendel>you're quickly satisfied.
11:16<earendel>good for you.
11:16<azeem>earendel: who are you talking to?
11:18<earendel>you want me to advertise?
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11:19<earendel>that was a nice topic.
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11:19<earendel>why have you left freenode years ago?
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11:20<azeem>earendel: please keep it on topic
11:20<earendel>i mean the debian channel.
11:21<earendel>as official support channel.
11:21<azeem>that's still not on topic
11:21<azeem>if you have a support question, you're free to ask it, or help others, or idle
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11:21<azeem>but this is not a chat channel
11:21<earendel>help fernando pls.
11:23<earendel>sure. query me or something. whoever. i take it there.
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12:26<earendel>oooooh. please not all at once!
12:28<earendel>one of that channels a player joins few time in a year to announce her next chess move
12:28<bremner>earendel: #debian-offtopic is a more appropriate place for your chatter
12:29<earendel>thank you.
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12:47<chmd_>Hi there, I am struggling with a new debian install. I am trying to make the wifi work on a recent lenovo t14s gen 1, but somehow I am stuck. I have network on the machine, via usb tethering on my android phone. iwlist scanning does not detect an interface supporting scanning. Any suggestion on where to go?
12:47-!-DocTrax [~egbert@00013802.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
12:47<sussudio>chmd_: probably need non-free firmware.
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12:48<chmd_>non free-firmware is already activated in /etc/apt/sources.list
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12:49<chmd_>more precisely, the package firmware-iwlwifi is installed
12:50<sussudio>https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/T14
12:50<tohoyn>chmd_: could you give output of "lspci | grep Network"
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12:51<chmd_>this machine is barely installed, so I don't have weechat on it yet, which makes copy-pasting challenging. let me try to find a workaround
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12:52<chmd__>ok, from here, seems to work
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12:54<chmd__>https://paste.debian.net/1224926/
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12:56<Sqrt{Not}>chmd__, what do you see from: sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware
12:57<tohoyn>page https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/T14 discusses a different network controller (Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (rev 1a))
12:57<tohoyn>probably that's why the firmware package doesn't help
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12:58<chmd__>https://paste.debian.net/1224927/
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12:59<chmd_>I am on a 5.10 kernel, according to uname -a
12:59<tohoyn>see https://askubuntu.com/questions/1357135/driver-for-mediatek-wifi-card-7961
12:59<ova>#debian-offtopic requires OFTC registration. Is this intentional?
12:59<chmd_>Do you recommend I upgrade to debian testing?
13:00<tohoyn>yes
13:00<tohoyn>at least you should upgrade the kernel
13:00<blast007>do you have firmware-misc-nonfree installed? also seeing a metion elsewhere that the Linux Kernel 5.12 might be needed to support the Mediatek 7961
13:00<Sqrt{Not}>,kernels
13:00<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.14.0-trunk-686-pae (5.14.3-1~exp1); sid: 5.14.0-1-686 (5.14.6-3); bullseye: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-5); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.8-686 (5.10.46-4~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-17-686-pae (4.19.194-3); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.17-686-pae (4.19.194-3~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
13:00<judd>4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1); bookworm: 5.14.0-1-686 (5.14.6-2); bullseye-backports: 5.10.0-8-686 (5.10.46-5)
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13:01<blast007>hmm, that info seems outdated. kernel 5.14.9 is in bullseye-backports.
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13:03<Sqrt{Not}>ahh, good, a backport kernel would be easier and safer than installing testing
13:03<chmd_>Installing testing
13:04<blast007>...
13:04<blast007>chmd_: no need for that
13:04<blast007>just start with the firmware, and then the backports kernel
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13:05<chmd_>I mean, source.list was edited, apt update was run and apt upgrade is running, so I guess I kind of passed the no-return point
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13:06<chmd_>it's ok, I don't mind running testing
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13:08<sussudio>why aren't you just following the guide i linked to
13:08<chmd_>not the same hardware, if I understand correctly
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13:11<chmd_>sussudio: your guide refers to a network controller "Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (rev 1a)". My machine is not a t14 but a t14s, with a "MEDIATEK Corp. Device 7961"
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13:13<sussudio>chmd_: https://venthur.de/2021-02-10-installing-debian-on-a-thinkpad-t14s.html
13:14<sussudio>why does this say t14s and intel
13:14<sussudio>what kind of ripoff machine do you have
13:15<chmd_>just rebooted, and now I get wifi
13:15<chmd_>sussudio: I don't know, it is weird
13:16<chmd_>sussudio: the funny fact is, that guy is actually my colleage. I would ask him, but he is on holidays 😄
13:16<chmd_>we will definitely need to compare our hardware
13:17<sussudio>he'll probably be infected with all the corona variants when he comes back
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13:23<chmd_>hopefully not, he is a nice dude
13:23<chmd_>anyway, thanks for the help folks
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13:52<blast007>sussudio: the t14s has the Intel WiFi as an upgrade option, though the models listed on the site right now don't even give you the option to change to the Intel
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13:54<sussudio>thinkpads used to not be shit
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13:55<blast007>if you're implying that they've always had Intel WiFi, that's also not true
13:56<sussudio>generally
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13:58<blast007>T60 had Atheros or Intel. T41 had Atheros, Cisco, or Intel. T400 had Realtek or Intel. On so on...
13:59<sussudio>i don't know what the downstairs neighbours are doing, but co2 levels went up from 600 to 1000 in half an hour. with any luck, their levels will solve this problem by itself.
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15:24<aloo_shu>,v vitalium
15:24<judd>No package named 'vitalium' was found in amd64.
15:24<aloo_shu>,v vitalium-synth
15:24<judd>No package named 'vitalium-synth' was found in amd64.
15:24<aloo_shu>,v vital-synth
15:24<judd>No package named 'vital-synth' was found in amd64.
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15:31-!-guiverc is "Chris Guiver" on #debian #debian-ubuntu
15:31<aloo_shu>irgendwie riecht das ein bisschen, als ob herr tytel sehr viel opensource code in vital verbraten hat, daran erinnert werden musste, was das bedeutet, und mit seien disclaimern 'schadensbegrenzubg' betreiben will
15:36<aloo_shu>die untersagung, auf seinen nemen zu verweisen z.B., wird rechtsunwirksam sein, und die reichweite seiner registrierten handelsmarke wird sein, dass niemand sagen kann, 'dieser synth ist vital', aber 'dieser synth ist ein fork des von matt tytel geschriebenen vital' wird er sich wahrscheinlich gefallen lassen muessen
15:36<aloo_shu>namen *
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15:42<bremner>um. ELANG?
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15:44<another>aloo_shu: ahm.. wrong channel?
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15:50<aloo_shu>another: oh thanks right
15:50<aloo_shu>and sorry everybody
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15:53<aloo_shu>had been discussing vital[ium] elsewhere, and wanted to check if it had appeared on debian
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16:00<Otfc>Ho hO Ho
16:01<Otfc>new toys anypne?
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16:14<umuench>Merry Chrismas :-)
16:14<Otfc>happy new year
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16:18<alexrelis>Debian is the gift that keeps on giving ;D
16:20<RoyK>Otfc: ho ho ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G18t7P-Df0 ;)
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17:14<pavlushka>trying use only window-manager but either this or that dm keeps auto-installing, where is it, in /etc/udev/?
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17:57<mcenhillk>Been looking for software to connect my Gopro Hero 7 to my bullseye laptop. I can pull the data off the card but would like to be able to pull files directly off the camera if possible. Any ideas?
18:02<Sqrt{Not}>Last I checked, gopro was not very cooperative with direct linux connection. I think they want you to use your laptop wifi to download from the camera's webserver.
18:04<Sqrt{Not}>(retarded, but workable)
18:05<mcenhillk>I'll chase that rabbit for a bit longer then I'll just stick with the card transfer technique. Thanks
18:05<mcenhillk>BTW, had trouble with a reliable connection with my windows connection as well. So, yes, retarded.
18:06<mcenhillk>thanks
18:06<Sqrt{Not}>good luck!
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18:27<mcenhillk__>\disconnect
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19:07<alexrelis>When I install virt-manager in Debian, by default I have to enter my root password every time I want to manage my virtual machines. Is it possible to disable this and just have it without a password? Or does it come at a cost to security?
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19:10<jmcnaught>alexrelis: you can add your user to the libvirt group. See the note about it in /usr/share/doc/libvirt-daemon/README.Debian.gz. It means that your user can use libvirt/virsh/virt-manager to do anything that libvirt can do.
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19:12<alexrelis>jmcnaught: Thanks. I just added my user to the libvirt group. Any downsides to doing this?
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19:14<jmcnaught>alexrelis: your user can now use libvirt to do anything that libvirt can do, which is a lot, but I do not think that most people would need to worry about it.
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19:19<alexrelis>jmcnaught: Cool. Heck of a lot better than punching in my password every time.
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21:28<donfede>is there a way for `apt' or `apt-get' to only upgrade "critical"/security updates?
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21:53<alexrelis>donfede: Check this out: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23431451/debian-apt-get-upgrade-how-to-install-only-security-updates It looks like it's possible with debsecan. I know that the package, unattended-upgrades automatically installs security updates to your system as well.
21:54<alexrelis>Though I feel like staying on stable/oldstable would basically be what you'd wanna do if you only wanted security updates. Debian will only let through "feature" upgrades when it is not possible/too inconvenient to backport security fixes to an existing older package.
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22:07<Ampera>I just finished a manual install of debian testing, and for some reason the hostname I set in /etc/hostname isn't sticking
22:08<Ampera>ah, I think I just thought of a reason why this might be the case, context is that this is a ZFS on root system, and /etc is a dataset, so it might actually be lagging slightly behind init start before mounting
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22:13<blast007>Ampera: also, testing/unstable support is in #debian-next
22:13<Ampera>sorry
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23:10<somiaj>donfede: if you are running debian stable, all updates are only security or bug fixes.
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23:33<Guest9449>real people
23:33<Guest9449>real goals
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 28 00:00:04 2021