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#debian IRC Logs for 2022-01-09

---Logopened Sun Jan 09 00:00:16 2022
---Daychanged Sun Jan 09 2022
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00:53<happygilmoregent>curious if I have a portable hard drive and have it partitioned with 2 extended can you allow pvcreate on the extended separately?
00:55<happygilmoregent>like dual booting fedora and debian on two different pv(s) on the same drive
00:56<RoyK>ext2?
00:57<happygilmoregent>like extended partitions
00:57<happygilmoregent>vs primary
00:57<happygilmoregent>unless that wasn't directed at my roy
00:58<RoyK>with old MBR, you have up to four primary partitions of which one of them can be extended. In the extended partition, you can have logical partitions
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00:58<RoyK>you can put a PV on either a primary or a logical partition
00:59<happygilmoregent>ok so will anaconda(debian installer) pickup if you divide the extended into 2 logicals?
00:59<RoyK>the extended partition itself isn't made to hold data, just more partitions
00:59<RoyK>happygilmoregent: pastebin output of fdisk -l /dev/sdX
01:01<happygilmoregent>currently I'm not on the affected machine it's just I got a solid state portable drive because my debian disk has bad sectors
01:01-!-trekkie1701c [~trekkie17@0002c01a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: :P]
01:01<RoyK>oops - hdd or ssd?
01:02<happygilmoregent>hdd
01:02<happygilmoregent>well it's SATA connector and comes listed as sdX
01:03<RoyK>most things are listed as scsi devices nowadays ;)
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01:03<RoyK>it's been a long time since we had hdX
01:03<happygilmoregent>yeah
01:04<happygilmoregent>so if I had an fdisk with 1 primary(/boot) and extended of which was broken into 2 logicals would I be able to install debian on 1 logical and fedora on the other?
01:05<happygilmoregent>I've tried google but either I'm not phrasing it right or using different terms when I essential mean the same thing as an online solution
01:06<RoyK>that should work
01:06<RoyK>that is
01:06<happygilmoregent>given that setup would the debian installer notice the 2 logicals as two different partitions for using LVM
01:06<RoyK>you don't need a separat /boot partition
01:07<happygilmoregent>ok
01:07<RoyK>you could use the whole thing as one PV, put a VG on that and then use a separate LV for each OS
01:07<RoyK>sharing a boot partition between distros will only mess up things
01:08<RoyK>and again - it's been quite some years since you had to have separate a boot partition
01:08<RoyK>also with lvm
01:08<happygilmoregent>so fdisk /dev/sdX with 1 partition and then pvcreate /dev/sdX1 and then vgcreate debian-port /dev/sdx1?
01:09<happygilmoregent>when creating the vg just use a certain number of extents?
01:09<RoyK>some tips here ;) https://wiki.karlsbakk.net/index.php/Roy's_notes
01:09<happygilmoregent>ok thanks
01:10<RoyK>but pvcreate /dev/sdX1 ; vgcreate myvg /dev/sdX1 ; lvcreate -n debian -L 100G myvg
01:10<RoyK>for instance
01:11<happygilmoregent>ok is separate /home outdated as well?
01:12<raven523>separate /home is still common
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01:12<raven523>I have a separate /home to make it easier to switch distros
01:12<RoyK>raven523: quite so - and that may be shared between the distros
01:13<happygilmoregent>so given the commands above would I create lvcreate -n debian -L 100G debian-port andthen lvcreate -n debian-home -l100%FREE debian-port?
01:13<RoyK>happygilmoregent: probably just 10G for the root, then - you can easily grow it later if it fills up
01:14<RoyK>shrinking it is a bit harder, but doable, unless you put xfs on it
01:14<happygilmoregent>k
01:14<RoyK>and home can be shared between the two
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01:14<happygilmoregent>when I go to install debian using the graphical installer how would I separate the two roots?
01:15<RoyK>happygilmoregent: is debian-port the name of the vg?
01:15<happygilmoregent>yes
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01:15<RoyK>ok - but this vg is for both distros, right?
01:16<happygilmoregent>if I wanted to create two different vgs for the two different distros
01:16<RoyK>why?
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01:16<RoyK>a vg is put onto a pv and a pv is put on a disk or partition
01:16<happygilmoregent>well fedora and debian don't usually get along
01:17<happygilmoregent>the reason those two because I've had debian kernel freeze up but fedora works fine
01:17<RoyK>pvcreate /dev/sdX1 ; vgcreate linux /dev/sdX1 ; lvcreate -n debian-sys -L 10G linux ; lvcreate -n fedora-sys -L 10G linux ; lvcreate -n home -L 20G linux
01:17<RoyK>something like that
01:17<happygilmoregent>ok
01:18<happygilmoregent>can you install the base system without the graphical or text installer?
01:18<RoyK>then use debian-sys and fedora-sys for the root, respectively for each distro
01:18<RoyK>'without the graphical or text installer'?
01:19<happygilmoregent>how would you install the base-systems for either?
01:19<happygilmoregent>would anaconda recognize VG linux and then allow you to select debian-sys for the base-system?
01:19<RoyK>run the installer for each of them, installing to separate LVs
01:19<happygilmoregent>oh ok
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01:20<happygilmoregent>wasn't sure if there was a tarball for each like gentoo
01:20<RoyK>just create the vg/lv before starting the insatller so that the installer doesn't mess things up
01:20<RoyK>no, there aren't such a thing ;)
01:20<happygilmoregent>ok
01:20<RoyK>gentoo is a complete different beast
01:20<happygilmoregent>I
01:20<RoyK>s/complete/completely/
01:21<happygilmoregent>I've used it before but compiling takes awhile and if you get the binpkgs they go against the compile for efficiency paradigmn
01:22<RoyK>you can take the idea of compile for efficiency with a small bag of salt
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01:22<happygilmoregent>intel and amd thought of that already?
01:23<RoyK>same instruction set - more or less - only very minor differences
01:24<happygilmoregent>is gpt the future?
01:24<RoyK>for some very special tasks, you might want to compile for a particular processor, but mostly, that's not needed at all
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01:24<RoyK>gpt is the current ;)
01:26<happygilmoregent>when booting without a separate boot partition where do you put grub/lilo?
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01:33<happygilmoregent>I have a love/hate relationship with my 12hr shift because I have so much stimuli
01:35<happygilmoregent>I really wish someone would take up the reigns on reiserfs
01:35<happygilmoregent>I know hans went to jail but would he have a problem with someone continuing hsi work
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01:37<RoyK>grub is always put in the MBR, that is, on /dev/sdX
01:37<RoyK>dunno if this is the same with GPT, though
01:38<RoyK>better use MBR if you don't need GPT
01:38<RoyK>and lilo - that was 20+ years ago ;)
01:39<happygilmoregent>true
01:39<happygilmoregent>when I install debian and then install fedora do I skip installing grub on fedora so as to not screw up the setup and just run grub-mkconfig to catch them both
01:42<happygilmoregent>heck until 10+ years ago DOD was still using 5.25
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01:44<happygilmoregent>course what is "old" in the internet age 2 months?
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01:50<happygilmoregent>thanks for all your help roy have a good night
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02:03<icelupin7>clear
02:04<icelupin7>so i have been trying to install firefox using snap
02:04<icelupin7>firefox-esr is also installed
02:05<icelupin7>problem is that nothing downloads in snap version which 95.01
02:05<icelupin7>presently on oldstable
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02:13<trench>why snap?
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02:13<trench>firefox is in debian
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02:15<icelupin7>snap has the latest version
02:16<icelupin7>sometimes esr version crashes
02:17<icelupin7>which is why i though installing the stable version from snap would lessen that
02:17<icelupin7>but over here not able to download
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02:18<icelupin7>anything
02:19*enyc meows
02:21<enyc>icelupin7: there at least were mozilla binaries, as opposed to needing additional package system ....
02:23<freq>enyc
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02:24<freq>i really like kali on rpi400
02:24<freq>i could disable all of the tools and just have rolling debian
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02:25<enyc>icelupin7: firefox-esr on debian 11bullseye should be stable, I think better you sort out what is triggering crashes, test hardware, try newer debian, ....?
02:25<enyc>reset firefox profile, ........
02:25<freq>profile.ini
02:25<freq>something like that. you can put your old backup in there
02:25<freq>but you'll have to reinstall your plugins
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02:27<icelupin7>i think
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02:27<icelupin7>main problem is that
02:27<icelupin7>default download is to ask where to save
02:28<icelupin7>where this does not pop up in the snap version
02:28<icelupin7>esr version does this normally
02:28<icelupin7>if i set it to a particular folder then both snap and esr version downloads without any hiccups
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02:29<freq>icelupin7: can you reach about:config ?
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02:30<icelupin7>let me check
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02:32<icelupin7>no cannot reach there
02:32<trench>https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox
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03:50-!-Simone is "Simone" on #debian
03:50<joe>so on debian xfce why do sticky keys randomly turn off and on with a notification?
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04:27<qrpnxz>sad debian live standard doesn't fit on a CD :(
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04:31<RoyK>qrpnxz: do people use CDs?
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04:32<RoyK>qrpnxz: fits on a DVD, though
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04:33<RoyK>qrpnxz: or uf you want to get fancy, use a USB pen ;)
04:33<qrpnxz>yeah, but what if you only had a CD burner, it's so close to CD size that i'd like to see it there. Disc is more reliable than USB, but yes that's also an option.
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05:15-!-sm0rux is "Pontus Falk" on #debian #dfri_se #debian-offtopic #debian-next
05:17<sm0rux>The package signal-desktop is hold back when I try to upgrade using apt update && apt upgrade. How can I solve this?
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05:26<towo`>sm0rux: there is no package signal-desktop in debian
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05:32<Sqrt{Not}>sm0rux, where did you get package signal-desktop originally?
05:33-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b410a5f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
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05:35<sm0rux>towo` and Sqrt{Not}: aha, I got it from signal.org web page
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05:38-!-illwieckz_ is "Thomas Debesse" on #debian #debianfr #oolite #oolite-dev #radeon #dri-devel
05:38<tomreyn>they provide an apt repository
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05:40<sm0rux>Thanks to all who lead me on the right track - signal-desktop is now updated :)
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06:33-!-Mezz is "Mezz" on #redditprivacy @#gemu #virt #packaging #debian #oftc #kvm #moocows #aqi-data-share #Qubes_OS #debian-xfce #ceph #freedombox #llvm #publiclab #help #biz
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07:39<icelupin7>trench:https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox this worked
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07:40<icelupin7>seems like using snap installing made the OS confuse things
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08:41<liberium>sup (y)
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08:47<liberium>ghost irc networks
08:47<bremner>!chat
08:47<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows; or search for a chat topic of your choice at https://netsplit.de/channels/
08:47<bremner>so, do you have a question about debian?
08:48<liberium>question is were do i start
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08:50<DPA>Are there any http proxies for caching packages for like 2 days? Ideally, I'd like to do the proxying transparently, because I automatically bootstrap lots of images every day, and don't want to mess with the sources lists.
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08:50<bremner>DPA: did you have a look at apt-cacher-ng? it has a fair number of configuration knobs iirc
08:51<bremner>liberium: I guess with reading the installation instructions?
08:51<liberium>already did
08:52<DPA>Thanks, I haven't looked at it yet. I'll check if I can use it for my purposes.
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08:54<liberium>i had a question about using cfdisk fdisck parted and some other i cant remember anymore
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08:56<liberium>i think cfdisk was the recomended on the installation instructions
08:57<bremner>liberium: you should not need to manually run a disk partitioner for a standard install
08:57<liberium>at the time it was
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08:59<liberium>also cause dual booting
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09:14<liberium>how do i disable l3 cache on linux?
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09:22<bremner>no idea, why do you want to?
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09:29<liberium>nvm then
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09:30<zoke>you would need a kernel module with approriate asm calls for whatever CPU you have
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09:31<zoke>and a CPU that supports disabling L3 cache
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09:32<zoke>maybe it can be disabled from bios... that would probably be a lot less work
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09:40<sussudio>google says you can disable cpu caches with /proc/mtrr and instantly turn your pc back to 1990's speed.
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10:37<seabass>Hello! I've been moving drives around in my machine, and now it won't boot! I've one normal drive in right now, and one removable drive with Debian 11 live (which is what I'm writing this on).
10:38<sussudio>so move them back.
10:38<spawacz>maybe you just need to select the drive in BIOS?
10:39<seabass>sussudio: unfortunately, I've tried that :(
10:39<spawacz>what precisely do you mean by saying it does not boot? reaches grub?
10:39<sussudio>are you getting a grub error
10:39<seabass>It doesn't get a GRUB screen
10:39<seabass>in fact the UEFI doesn't recognise it as a bootable drive any longer
10:39<spawacz>did you try pressig F12 or whatever it is in bios to select the boot device?
10:39<spawacz>hm
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10:39<seabass>spawacz, yup, to no avail
10:40<sussudio>does bios recognize it at all
10:40<seabass>fdisk -l: https://paste.debian.net/1226481/
10:40<seabass>sussudio, the 'boot order override' screen does, but if I select it there it just boots from the live USB anyway
10:41<sussudio>so remove the usb drive
10:41<seabass>sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/grub/ gives an error: mount: /mnt/grub: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.
10:41<jim>4hi
10:41<jim>err
10:41<jim>hi
10:42<seabass>sussudio: then it gets stuck on a page with a terminal cursor
10:42<jim>what's a good web UI like github, that I can install on debian?
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10:42<seabass>jim: I love Gitea for that :)
10:42<petn-randall>jim: gitlab probably.
10:42<sussudio>seabass: try reseating the data cable on both ends.
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10:42<jim>ok :)
10:43<seabass>sussudio: OK - I'd be most surprised if that worked though, because Debian live USB can see it fine
10:43<seabass>I'm thinking that I've probably corrupted GRUB
10:44<seabass>alrighty, see you (hopefully!) once I've done that :)
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10:44<grawity>uh, but if sda1 is the "BIOS boot partition" (judging by its size), it's not *supposed* to have anything mountable
10:45<grawity>grub is a bootloader, not a filesystem
10:45<grawity>it's the 2nd partition (efi system partition, where grub indeed exists as a file) that you could mount successfully
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10:51<seabass>sussudio: hello again! I reseated the cables. The drive does show up in the boot menu, but upon selecting it I'm told to 'insert a boot device'
10:51<grawity>were you previously booting in EFI mode?
10:52<seabass>grawity: I think so
10:52<seabass>it shows the USB live disk as both EFI and legacy; I pressed EFI for that one
10:52<grawity>then you'll need to select the F8 boot menu entry that specifically uses EFI mode -- the regular "disk X" entry is for BIOS boot
10:53<seabass>ah, but it only shows one for the hard drive
10:53<grawity>if it doesn't show up: mount the 2nd partition, copy grub.efi (wherever it is) to <mnt>/efi/boot/bootx64.efi
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10:53<grawity>that should make it show up
10:53<seabass>graytron:
10:54<seabass>sorry, wrong ping. grawity: the grub.efi from the live system or from the hard drive's system?
10:54<grawity>the hard drive's
10:54<grawity>that's what you want to boot, right?
10:54<seabass>Yup! Thanks; I'll try that
10:54<grawity>previously you had a "custom" EFI boot entry that pointed not to the "whole disk", but directly to the grub.efi file in the EFI system partition
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10:55<grawity>now you lost that entry (probably due to trying to boot without the disk attached) and will need to re-add it using `grub-install`
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10:56<grawity>until then, you can boot the HDD the same way EFI boots removable disks, by copying grub.efi to the location efi\boot\bootx64.efi (still within the same EFI system partition)
10:56<seabass>grawity: oh, I see - thank you for explaining that! I presumed that boot entries were immutable
10:56<seabass>found it, I think: /boot/grub/x86_64-efi
10:56<grawity>that looks like a directory (the one that holds grub's modules) and not an .efi file
10:57<grawity>the file is, let me check if I have any debian uefi systems
10:57<grawity>oh right all the VMs
10:57<grawity><mnt>/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi
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10:58<grawity>copying it to <mnt>/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi should cause the firmware to show an "UEFI:" boot menu entry for the whole disk
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10:59<grawity>once you boot that, you'll be able to re-run grub-install and have it re-add the custom boot menu entry
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11:00<grawity>hmm alternatively, I guess you could skip that and use your live USB stick – as long as that's booted in EFI mode – to chroot into your debian root partition (making sure to mount everything, e.g. the root partition on /mnt, then the EFI partition on /mnt/boot/efi, etc) and run grub-install that way
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11:00<seabass>grawity: this is what's in the old boot partion: https://x0.at/QHDV.txt
11:01<seabass>I can't find a grub.efi...?
11:04<seabass>ah, but I *do* have a grub.efi in the /boot directory of the old system, namely /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/grub.efi which is a "PE32+ executable (EFI application) x86-64 (stripped to external PDB), for MS Windows"
11:06<seabass>This is a Debian 11 system, if I haven't already said that
11:06<grawity>basically `file` says "for MS Windows" because EFI bootloaders (.efi files) are exactly the same format as Windows .exe files
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11:07<grawity>guess what company was the most involved in UEFI
11:07<seabass>oh, that's interesting
11:07<seabass>haha that's true
11:08<seabass>I'll try the chroot and grub-install method then
11:08<grawity>(tbh it's not surprising, they probably really liked having the same facilities on ARC systems where Windows also ran, to the point that boot.ini on x86 Windows pretty much emulated the "boot entries" that ARC had, and now UEFI has.)
11:09<seabass>hmm, is ARC the Sun one?
11:09<grawity>Alpha, I think? no relation to SPARC (don't think Windows even ran on that)
11:10<jrtc27>internet explorer did
11:10<seabass>ah, right
11:10<grawity>anyway, if that file listing was from your /dev/sda2, it really looks more like /boot than the EFI system partition – I'm guessing the 'efi' directory is where the real EFI system partition would've been mounted
11:10<seabass>I can't even find an /efi directory on the old system /dev/sda3
11:11<grawity>ah, Wikipedia says it included Alpha, "Windows NT-capable PowerPC", and some MIPS
11:11<grawity>sda3 is your *root* filesystem, right?
11:11<seabass>yes, the root filesystem of the OS I want to boot to
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11:14<demo_>hey
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11:15<grawity>right, so it won't have an /efi directory (on debian anyway), and it'd be just the mountpoint for the EFI system partition
11:15<grawity>the efi/boot/ directory that I was talking about would be on the "EFI System" partition
11:15<seabass>OK - so I've run `sudo mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/` and `sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/boot/efi`
11:16<seabass>now `sudo chroot /mnt/` - am I doing this right?
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11:18<grawity>probably
11:18<grawity>I'm not sure if grub-install also wants (/mnt)/dev and (/mnt)/sys
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11:18<seabass>hmm, I'll mount --bind them as well
11:19<grawity>ah right, it needs to add EFI variables through efivarfs, so you'll want --rbind for /sys
11:19<grawity>there's a whole another virtual filesystem at /sys/firmware/efi/efivars
11:19<seabass>ahah, so I'm guessing that rbind means recursive?
11:20<grawity>yes, includes all sub-mounts
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11:21<revolt>hello
11:21<revolt>does any one knows wondershaper ?
11:21<revolt>im trying to cut download and uload speed
11:21<seabass>hello revolt - not me, sorry
11:21<revolt>and it cuts only download
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11:21<revolt>upload goes full speed ;(
11:22<seabass>oh, this is for traffic shaping?
11:22<seabass>I've used the tc command before, but that was for packet loss emulation rather than scheduling
11:23<revolt>yes
11:23<seabass>grawity: ok-dokey, moment of truth now! :) Do I need to umount before restarting?
11:23<revolt>i like cut down and upload speed
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11:23<revolt>problem is
11:23<revolt>the program cuts download
11:24<revolt>but not upload
11:24<grawity>seabass: a clean `reboot` will unmount everything anyway
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11:25<grawity>`umount -R /mnt` won't hurt, but some --rbound filesystems won't unmount nicely, but it doesn't matter in the end, as long as the writes are flushe
11:25<seabass>grawity: thank you very much! I'll reboot then
11:25<grawity>so just run `sync` (or don't) and do a normal reboot
11:26<seabass>revolt: I think tc qdisc add dev DEVICE_NAME_HERE root tbf rate 5mbit
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11:37<seabass>grawity: thank you very much! It booted straight away
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11:37<seabass>I'll have to remember that chroot+grub-install method :)
11:38<grawity>run `efibootmgr -v` to see the boot entry that grub-install created
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11:47<arcangelo>film
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12:00<seabass>grawity: sorry, I was AFK. It says Timeout: 0 seconds\nBootOrder: 0000,0004
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12:01<seabass>I'm most appreciative of the time you spent helping me; I'm sure that broken bootloaders are the scariest thing to fix on your own :D
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12:05<sussudio>this is relatively painless. try a L 01 01 01 01 prompt.
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12:49<florent>.service - NFS server and services
12:49<florent><florent> Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/nfs-server.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
12:49<florent><florent> Active: inactive (dead)
12:49<florent><florent> when running journalctl -xe, first issue I'm seeing is: cubox systemd[1]: Dependency failed for NFSv4 ID-name mapping service.
12:49<florent><florent> The job identifier is 270 and the job result is dependency.
12:50<florent><florent> Any idea where I should dig to fix the issue
12:51<Konomi>you could get more details on the unit failing with `sudo journalctl --boot=0 --unit=nfs-server`
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12:59<florent>Jan 09 18:54:17 cubox systemd[1]: Dependency failed for NFS server and services.
12:59<florent>Jan 09 18:54:17 cubox systemd[1]: nfs-server.service: Job nfs-server.service/start failed with result 'dependency'.
13:00<florent>from what I can see here and there, some fixed it by install some kernel modules
13:00<florent>for example: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2435936
13:00<grawity>systemctl list-dependencies nfs-server
13:01<grawity>should show the bad ones in red
13:01<florent>nfs-server.service
13:01<florent>● ├─auth-rpcgss-module.service
13:01<florent>● ├─nfs-config.service
13:01<florent>● ├─nfs-idmapd.service
13:01<florent>● ├─nfs-mountd.service
13:01<florent>● ├─proc-fs-nfsd.mount
13:01-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@2001:861:3182:a700:f4bb:8a56:74e5:73ab] by debchange
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13:01<grawity>yeah I mean look at them yourself
13:02<jmcnaught>!paste
13:02<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>.
13:02<jmcnaught>florent: you will be unmuted in a minute or so, please use ^^^ from now on
13:02<grawity>the important part is going to be colors which don't copy-paste well, anyway
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13:02<grawity>if not then try starting them one by one maybe
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13:04<florent>sorry for the pastes, I took the point :)
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13:05<florent>proc-fs-nfsd.mount got a red dot
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13:35<lechner>Hi, can anyone recommend an installable executable to verify JSON schemas? Thanks! http://json-schema.org/
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13:50<Blondie101010>lechner: a quick search seems to indicate that you might be looking for python-json-schema-validator, otherwise you'll need to contact the author to get them to provide a debian build
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14:33<jimpop>lechner: jq
14:33<jimpop>https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46954692/check-if-string-is-a-valid-json-with-jq
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15:52<lechner>Blondie101010: thanks!
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15:52<lechner>jimpop: i think that checks only the JSON spec, but not my custom schema
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15:54<Blondie101010>I think so too
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16:00<donfede>is there a recommended host based firewall interface for Debian 11 bullseye? (e.g., `ufw')?
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16:01<Blondie101010>https://wiki.debian.org/nftables
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16:02<bremner>nftables are great, unless you need to run libvirt on the same host
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16:02<donfede>firewalld really? is that common with debian now?
16:03<Blondie101010>bremner: why would that matter in this?
16:04<donfede>interesting, nftables has a dedicated systemd service, so that's another suggested approach...
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16:04<Blondie101010>and there's a iptables compatibility utility
16:04*donfede i happen to be looking at a hostbased firewall solution that also uses libvirt
16:05<Blondie101010>that's not a problem
16:05<Blondie101010>nft doesn't remove any possibility
16:05<donfede>yeah, trying to get away from the compatibility utility; and hoping to revamp decades old iptables rules (using legacy style init scripts)
16:05<Blondie101010>it allows more features and structure
16:05<donfede>thus checking current "best/common" practices
16:05<bremner>Blondie101010: sure, but the nice part of nft is the front end, and that's where you get in trouble with libvirt
16:05<Blondie101010>don't use GUIs in general
16:05<bremner>so, unless you have actually done it, please don't claim it's "no problem"
16:06<bremner>it's not about the GUI, it's about using the nft utility
16:06<donfede>where is the risk? is nft service changing things dynamically, or just at startup?
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16:06<bremner>the risk is that libvirts iptables hacks don't understand the non-iptables chains / tables you add with nft
16:07*donfede libvirt feels a bit abandoned/stale sadly... :(
16:07<rudi_s>But it depends how you use libvirt. You can use it just fine without it interacting with any firewall if you don't use the network "support" it provides and just attach VMs to existing bridges.
16:07<bremner>that is true
16:08<bremner>not sure if you lose some convenience features that way like libnss-libvirt
16:09<donfede>rudi_s: humm interesting idea; presumably that would get rid of the needles dnsmasq instances also?
16:09<rudi_s>donfede: Yes
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16:09<rudi_s>Haven't used libnss-libvirt yet, not sure what it does.
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16:10<bremner>makes foo resolve on the host for each guest foo
16:10<bremner>so you can easily do ssh foo
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16:12<rudi_s>Ah. I'm not sure but I don't think that will work in this setup.
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16:15<donfede>curious the nftables wiki page only lists firewalld, and not ufw (given latter has 10x popularity count)
16:15<donfede>https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=ufw
16:15<donfede>https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=firewalld
16:15<donfede>really, noone here uses firewalld or ufw; just straight nft?
16:15<bremner>donfede: on the libvirt theme, libvirt apparently knows how to play nice with firewalld
16:15<donfede>interesting data point bremner ty
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16:16<rudi_s>Actually I mostly use iptables, but yeah no frontends (never understood the need for one, except maybe for firewalld which solves a different problem).
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16:16<lksndr>hi! is there any application to turn web app into desktop app? Like Web Apps?
16:16*donfede managing c7 and ub wkstns, a basic frontend is useful ("block all, allow ssh")
16:18<lksndr>I mean like Web Apps on Linux Mint
16:18<sussudio>if you want web apps on linux mint, use linux mint.
16:18<lksndr>no, i need something similar for debian
16:19<bremner>supposedly gnome has somethig built in, but I haven't tried it.
16:19<bremner>https://help.gnome.org/users/epiphany/stable/browse-webapps.html.en
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16:21<Sqrt{Not}>sussudio, that doesn't seem like a helpful answer
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16:26<sussudio>Sqrt{Not}: you come up with a better one then.
16:30<Sqrt{Not}>my policy is usually to keep silent, when I don't know.
16:31<donfede>ty bremner Blondie101010 rudi_s for the fw feedback
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19:19<suchmystery>hey there, could anyone help me get video acceleration working on an old ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (r100) GPU-based laptop running Buster? i know the hardware is ancient but it should be able to play video at a decent rate at least
19:21<suchmystery>direct rendering is enabled according to glxinfo and my GPU is properly detected but i get horrible lag even playing 360p video on mplayer
19:22<suchmystery>vainfo tries to find a driver that doesn't exist (called "radeon_drv_video.so") and spits out error code -1 (presumably file not found), while vdpauinfo tries to find a nvidia driver and also errors out since it cant find it
19:22<sussudio>does it mention firmware in dmesg
19:22<sussudio>,i firmware-amd-graphics
19:22<judd>Package firmware-amd-graphics (non-free/kernel, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Binary firmware for AMD/ATI graphics chips. Version: 20210315-3; Size: 5813.5k; Installed: 48254k; Homepage: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git
19:23<sussudio>,file radeon_drv_video.so
19:23<judd>No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found with that file.
19:23<suchmystery>yep, I can see in dmesg "radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware radeon/R100_cp.bin"
19:23<sussudio>ok
19:23<FLD>is there anything that should be tried for when activating "Sleep" on a laptop just blanks out the screen and locks up the laptop permanently with the fans on?
19:24<sussudio>!radeon
19:24<dpkg>Radeon is a brand of graphic processing units by AMD/ATI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). The radeon open source display driver is packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration. Also ask me about <radeon firmware>, <radeon audio>. https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo http://x.org/wiki/radeon #radeon on irc.oftc.net. For the proprietary driver, see <fglrx>.
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19:26<sussudio>!fglrx
19:26<dpkg>fglrx / AMD Catalyst is the proprietary display driver for AMD Radeon R9 200 series, Radeon R7 200 series, Radeon HD 8000/7000/6000/5000 and FirePro graphic processing units. To install fglrx, see https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary or ask me about <fglrx dkms>. This driver is incompatible with the GNOME desktop of Debian 8 "Jessie" due to lack of EGL support (ref. §5.11 <jessie release notes>), use the <radeon> driver instead.
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19:27<suchmystery>i don't think fglrx supports the r100 cards sadly
19:27<sney>r100 used to work out of the box with the radeon driver and the non-free firmware
19:28<suchmystery>it does work it's just janky
19:28<sney>it's possible support was dropped somewhere along the way, I guess, but make sure libgl1 and libglx-mesa0 are installed
19:29<sney>older devices sometimes lose support by accident with nobody testing them anymore
19:29<suchmystery>yep, got em both
19:29<suchmystery>could be that too i suppose
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19:30<sney>what about mesa-va-drivers?
19:30<suchmystery>yep
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19:38<suchmystery>Xorg.0.log also reports that "Render acceleration enabled for R100 type cards" so i'm not sure if it could be a mesa issue or what
19:41<sney>that sounds like it's enabled and "working" as far as xorg is concerned. how does it do with glxgears?
19:43<suchmystery>60FPS with vsync on (60hz display so checks out), ~240FPS with vsync off
19:44<sney>yeah that's working
19:44<sney>it's just not enough gpu for 2022
19:44<suchmystery>rip... not even for 360p video playback eh :(
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19:45<sney>yeah it would have been back when that was a current chip, I guess the rest of the gui doesn't leave it enough to spare anymore
19:45<suchmystery>ah i see
19:46<suchmystery>tried to keep things as light as possible with JWM but even thats too much i suppose
19:46<suchmystery>you hate to see it
19:47<sney>at least you still get a usable computer out of the deal
19:47<sney>I tried to resurrect an old touchscreen with SiS graphics a couple years ago and linux support was simply gone
19:47<suchmystery>true, and oof that sounds like a pain
19:48<sney>it (along with 10 others like it) was destined for the recycling pile anyway, it was just a "let's see if this works with anything other than winxp"
19:49<sney>what's yours, a thinkpad?
19:49<suchmystery>yep, thinkpad R51
19:50<sney>I had the T series from that era. 42 I think
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19:50<suchmystery>noice, i have a t43 kicking around too actually -- would be using that but southbridge is borked, solder-joint issue most likely
19:51<sney>that era was really bad for the stress fractures
19:51<suchmystery>yeah its a real shame
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19:52<suchmystery>might try to reflow the thing for the hell of it since i maxed it out and dont wanna see the parts go completely to waste although apparently reflowing doesn't work that well on these types southbridge chips
19:53<suchmystery>to be fair it still sorta works but its like the computer equivalent of a stroke patient
19:53<sney>yeah eventually it's just time to let it go lol. but on the other hand it's probably free to try
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19:54<suchmystery>yeah true, i just really like these old thinkpads lol
19:55<suchmystery>been my little off and on project trying to find the one magical OS that will make these things actually usable in the modern age, best i've found is debian so far lol
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19:57<sney>the magic bullet for old/weird hardware support used to be netbsd, though it's been at least a decade since I tested that assumption
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19:58<suchmystery>actually tried netbsd a day or two ago on this thing but I couldn't get video acceleration to work at all, it just defaulted to software rendering
19:58<sney>it feels like it *should* be possible for them to at least work as well as like, a rpi. maybe some kernel customization is in order? I don't know if there are any old dusty options that are disabled in debian that could help
19:59<suchmystery>yeah thats what i've been thinking but personally i know next to nothing about kernel customization
19:59<sney>!kernel handbook
19:59<dpkg>The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook http://kernel-handbook.debian.net/ - packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Debian 7 "Wheezy" - serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source.
19:59<sney>it's generally pretty easy, all menu-driven, it just takes time to compile
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20:01<sney>debian 6 or 7 would probably have been the last time r100 was a common enough gpu to be well supported, and the configs from those kernels are definitely available to look at
20:01<sney>it might be a rabbit hole but it's well stocked :)
20:01<suchmystery>lol
20:01<suchmystery>thanks for the info though really appreciate it
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20:02<suchmystery>actually uh where would i find the kernel configs for 6 and 7? or are they just in the handbook
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20:04<sney>kernel history on salsa goes back at least that far, here's the config for 6: https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/-/blob/squeeze/debian/config/config
20:05<suchmystery>okay awesome, thank you very much
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20:05<sney>np
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20:05<suchmystery>hopefully i can still squeeze some juice outta this thing lol
20:07<suchmystery>ok did not notice that pun until now lmao
20:08<sney>lol
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20:41<r4fkramer>Hello everybody. Please: I would like to know how to restore Grub on Debian due to the following problem: I did a dual boot installation of Debian and Arch Linux.
20:41<r4fkramer>However, Arch Linux had the entire installation successfully done and Grub installed and configured, did not load completely, going to the grub prompt - grub >
20:41<r4fkramer>I want to know how to reinstall Grub from Debian as I can't access Debian at this time - so this is a Support request for the Debian reinstallation features and not Arch Linux.
20:41<r4fkramer>Can someone please help me to fix this issue ?
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20:43<sussudio>just run osprober in arch
20:44-!-z4k [~z4k@host-95-233-44-133.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
20:44<r4fkramer>I've installed os-prober in Arch Linux sussudio, but I can't access this tool as I can't boot any OS - neither Debian nor Arch
20:45<r4fkramer>And I want to restore my original Debian bootloader, to be able to access both OS installed
20:45<sussudio>use something like rescatux then.
20:45<r4fkramer>How do I use it ?
20:46<sussudio>google it.
20:46<r4fkramer>Did you understand my issue ? I can't boot no OS
20:46<sussudio>you're here. you booted an os.
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20:47<r4fkramer>Let me explain a thing: I'm using another debian in another hd
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20:48<r4fkramer>I can boot it normally, sure, it is ok. But I can't boot the other debian that is in dual boot with arch linux in other hard disk.
20:48<r4fkramer>Did you understand now my problem ? I opened rescatux site here
20:49<r4fkramer>'Restore GRUB and GRUB2' - one of the features of rescatux. So I can use as live mode, right ?
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20:53<r4fkramer>Ok sussudio, this is the tool I need to restore my Grub in Debian. Thank you very much for Great Support :)
20:58<sussudio>k.
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21:17<vectorflex>Hello!
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22:48<JordiGH>What's the Debian laptop to get in 2022?
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22:50<sney>probably some variety of thinkpad, without optimus, or one of the dell linux developer models
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