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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-01-14

---Logopened Sat Jan 14 00:00:51 2006
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02:27<Dreamer3>anyone awake?
02:27<Dreamer3>anyone care to paste the first two lines of output from free on their linodes?
02:27<Dreamer3>i guess all three
02:28<internat>im here
02:28<internat>what output do u want?
02:28<internat>nf@broken:~$ free
02:28<internat> total used free shared buffers cached
02:28<internat>Mem: 115332 113736 1596 0 924 41336
02:28<internat>-/+ buffers/cache: 71476 43856
02:28<internat>Swap: 394232 5660 388572
02:29<Dreamer3>i have a 160mb linode, 133 user, 90 used (after you take out buffers/cache) and 78mb in swap
02:29<internat>i have 1 user.. me
02:29<internat>i dont like ppl having shell access :)
02:29<Dreamer3>133 user = 133 used
02:30<internat>everythings in virtual hosting
02:30<internat>so is the middle line actually onw much is free
02:30<Dreamer3>i'm trying to make do without upgrading the memory, but man every little thing...
02:30<internat>ie in my case 43856 mb?
02:30<internat>what are u running?
02:31<Dreamer3>yes, free not couting buffers and stuff...
02:31<Dreamer3>virtual hosting, mysql, spam assassin, rails apps... mostly it's the rails apps that use the memory
02:31<internat>so i have 43mb free.. outa 120, im hapy with having 43
02:31<internat>i dont have ror so :)
02:31<internat>i dont have spam assasin either
02:31<internat>i need to get some decent filtering
02:32<internat>never really looked into it. i shal do it soon i guess
02:32<internat>my spam has started to increase lately :/
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03:17<taupehat>internat: greylisting has cut my spam to nil with negligable impact on memory
03:17<taupehat>just so you know =]
03:21<internat>yeah but i dont like banning specicifc ranges.. id rather actually run a spam assassin type thing :)
03:22<taupehat>no no
03:22<taupehat>greylisting is none of that
03:23<taupehat>it basically relies on the fact that MTUs will resend mail when the receiving server says "deferred"
03:23<taupehat>whereas spammers pushing stuff out of compromised windows machines just send and forget
03:23<taupehat>it doesn't blacklist at all
03:23<taupehat>but it can whitelist
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03:25<cmantito>taupehat: wouldn't that theoretically delay your mail?
03:25<taupehat>cmantito: yes, but marginally
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03:26<taupehat>the people at greylisting said that they can get the same effectiveness by setting the delay to 1 second
03:26<taupehat>which would make sense if all the spammer does is send once and forget
03:26<taupehat>but a real MTU will see "Deferred for 1 second" and act accordingly
03:27<cmantito>have you lost any mail from using this?
03:27<cmantito>good point ;)
03:27<taupehat>there are known cases of (typically) large organizations, particularly those using Notes, that you have to whitelist
03:28[~]cmantito bookmarks.
03:28<taupehat>and the default distribution, for debian at least, comes with a large whitelist
03:28<cmantito>this is something for when I have more time :)
03:28<taupehat>since I don't use this mail for commerce, it's fine for me
03:28<taupehat>the reduction of spam was from a couple dozen a day to zero (and I've got most of APNIC blocked at the iptables level, so my spam volume would undoubtedly have been much greater)
03:29<cmantito>jeezus. I get 300-400 spam a day
03:29<taupehat>imagine getting none =]
03:29<cmantito>I just use tb's built-in learning filters.
03:29<taupehat>oh thunderchicken
03:30<cmantito>and sometimes apple's
03:30<cmantito>depends, laptop v. desktop
03:30<taupehat>I use Tbird on my iBook as well
03:30<taupehat>last time I checked, was still a broken moron where imap was concerned
03:30<cmantito>I like some of Mac mail's features.
03:30<cmantito>really? I have no imap issues...
03:31<taupehat>it doesn't appear to respect server folders
03:31<taupehat>it refuses to permanently accept my server certificate
03:31<taupehat>even though the name and everything lines up
03:31<cmantito>really? it did for me...
03:31<taupehat>"OMG!! U didn't pay hundreds of dollars to Veris1gn for an ssl cert! I will now annoy you a lot!1!"
03:32<cmantito>neither did I ;)
03:32<cmantito>when was the last time you tried it?
03:32<cmantito>and were you using the latest version?
03:32<taupehat>probably in 10.3
03:32<taupehat>and at the time I was
03:33[~]taupehat is currently at 10.4.4, naturally
03:33<taupehat>I like tbird
03:33<cmantito>so stick with it ;)
03:33<cmantito>I'm not telling you to change
03:33<taupehat>have a couple extensions on it that I like =]
03:33<taupehat>otoh, I really love
03:34<taupehat>double-click on a URL in terminal, and see what happens
03:34<cmantito>my only problem with is it won't send the mouseclicks through.
03:34<taupehat>it's not an xterm
03:34<cmantito>I noticed.
03:34<cmantito>but, that's why I have xterm on there :D
03:34<taupehat> is a bit of a mess :-|
03:34<cmantito>it works well enough
03:35<taupehat>for the most part
03:35<taupehat>but copy-paste?!
03:35<taupehat>still, though, I can do stuff like X -query with it, which is nice
03:36<taupehat>I can still remember when someone first got rootless X windows working on OSX back in 10.0 or .1
03:36<taupehat>was a very liberating geeky thing
03:37<taupehat>it did say one thing very clearly to people though - that was that OSX was a serious operating system for serious geeks, and not at all the toy that OS 9 had become
03:37<taupehat>but man 10.0 was rough
03:37<cmantito>I've still got an iMac with 10.0 on it
03:38[~]cmantito throws a book at it.
03:38<taupehat>hah, why the hell would you do that?
03:38<taupehat>keep 10.0 I mean
03:38<cmantito>cause the CD drive's busted and I'm too lazy to fix it to upgrade it ;)
03:38<cmantito>and I don't really use it. I'm gonna sell it off sooner or later.
03:38<taupehat>and it's probably pre-firewire iMac
03:38<cmantito>yup yup
03:38<cmantito>got two of em. one's 10.0, one's 10.3
03:38<cmantito>guess which one I use :P
03:39<taupehat>argh, why the hell are they dropping FW on the MacBook, anyhow?
03:39[~]cmantito shrugs
03:39<taupehat>it means I won't buy one
03:39<cmantito>I stopped working at the store just before the macbook came out.
03:39<taupehat>my iBook is not the fastest machine, but at least I can connect my video camera to it
03:39<cmantito>and my isight
03:39<cmantito>although that's not an issue on the macbook
03:40<taupehat>here's a spam attempt blocked by the milter
03:40<taupehat>check this:
03:40<taupehat>Jan 14 01:40:00 taupehat postfix/smtpd[31207]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from[]: 450 <>: Recipient address rejected: Greylisted for 300 seconds (see; from=<> to=<> proto=SMTP helo=<>
03:40<taupehat>Jan 14 01:40:06 taupehat postfix/smtpd[31207]: lost connection after RCPT from[]
03:40<taupehat>bye, spammer!
03:41<taupehat>I'm tailing logs right now
03:41<taupehat>it's fun to watch those come in
03:41<taupehat>and that one was clearly spam
03:42[~]J[SS] hunts for places to apply for a job
03:42<cmantito>J[SS]: I'm right there with you.
03:42<cmantito>...almost desparately.
03:42<taupehat>you were at apple store cmantito?
03:43<taupehat>pochemu ti ne eshyo tam rabotayesh?
03:43<taupehat>"how come you don't still work there?"
03:44<cmantito>had to leave because of scheduling issues, and now I'm back but I need a full-time job.
03:44<J[SS]>cmantito: I am having the fun at finding employment ~7-8 hrs from where I am at now
03:44<cmantito>and waitasec, the macbook *does* have firewire.
03:44<cmantito>J[SS]: eek.
03:44<cmantito>Expansion One FireWire 400, two USB 2.0 ports, and ExpressCard/34 slot
03:44<cmantito>YOU CONFUSED ME ><
03:45<cmantito>yeah, normal firewire.
03:45<cmantito>as in, not firewire 800, which I highly doubt your camera uses ;)
03:45<taupehat>but my external HDD _does_
03:45<cmantito>and the only reason I didn't catch that 10 minutes ago is because Is hould be in bed ;P
03:45<taupehat>are these shipping?
03:45<taupehat>oh also
03:45<taupehat>look in education for a fulltime job
03:46<taupehat>pay is crufty, but benefits are good
03:46<cmantito>I am, actually.
03:46<taupehat>ahh, good
03:46<cmantito>There's an opening at a school district round here I applied for
03:46<cmantito>I've actually worked for them before
03:46<cmantito>as a part-time low-level contracty-type person
03:46[~]taupehat works for a school district around here
03:46<cmantito>so they know I'm good :)
03:46<taupehat>are you in medford?
03:47<taupehat>hang on before you zzz
03:47<taupehat>I need to show you a map location
03:47[~]cmantito thinks of a half-dozen things which could've told you that.
03:47<taupehat> /whois
03:47<cmantito>that was first on the list
03:47<cmantito>I'm too lazy to bounce through my linode.
03:48<cmantito>and comcast won't give me reverse dns :(
03:48<taupehat>I'm near the bottom right
03:48[~]taupehat just runs irrsi on his node
03:48<cmantito>refernce, medford nj.
03:48<taupehat>the .nj was a clue to me
03:48<taupehat>but i thought it funny
03:48<cmantito>I get confused, cause there's a medford in OR
03:48<taupehat>look at link
03:48[~]Battousai laughs
03:48<cmantito>taupehat: I am :)
03:49<taupehat>Battousai: you all are getting weather...
03:49<Battousai>a freaking tornado watch
03:49<Battousai>in january...
03:49<Battousai>noaa be trippin yo
03:49<taupehat>not really
03:50<taupehat>look at those big-ass cells
03:50<cmantito>Battousai: same tornado watch in my area too :P
03:50<Battousai>its like we've gone through the scary door
03:50[~]Battousai futurama
03:50<taupehat>nah, no such thing as global warming
03:50<cmantito>I wish futurama was on right now
03:50<Battousai>it was actually
03:50<taupehat>weather's just always been like that (except forever ago)
03:50<Battousai>just finished
03:50<cmantito>what channel!?
03:50<taupehat>cmantito: good luck with that job thing
03:51<cmantito>taupehat: thanks
03:51[~]taupehat is going afk
03:51<Battousai>me too
03:51[~]cmantito should too in theory.
03:51<Battousai>sleep time, work in 3 hours
03:51<Battousai>2 hours
03:51<cmantito>I need to make a dentist appointment...
03:51<Battousai>thats not good
03:51<taupehat>I have a 3-year-old who is guaranteed to wake me up at some point in the morning
03:51<taupehat>it's not an optional thing
03:51<cmantito>you may as well stay up Battousai
03:52<taupehat>like "yo, there is no food in me, and I'm going to prove it by demonstrating how cranky I am until you solve this... dad!"
03:52<Battousai>nah i need me a nap
03:52<Battousai>i'm gonna be up until around 2:30am
03:52<cmantito>that ain't healty.
03:52<cmantito>I'd know.
03:52<Battousai>i've been doing it every week for 3 years
03:52<Battousai>so i've gotten used to it
03:52<taupehat>Battousai: you workin medical or something?
03:53<cmantito>hey, I just realized. I have a ~/video/tv/futurama folder
03:53<taupehat>them's doctor hours
03:53[~]cmantito pursues this.
03:53<Battousai>cmantito: fyi, tonight's was "Spanish Fry"
03:53[~]Battousai leaves
03:53<taupehat>ok, right
03:53<cmantito>Battousai: and that would be one I don't have.
03:53<cmantito>night Battousai
03:54[~]cmantito also &s
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04:02<warewolf>"I would rather go down on a swing."
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10:10<@linbot>New news from forums: NPTL in Feature Request/Bug Report <>
10:12<warewolf>haha no?
10:12<warewolf>no ntpl?
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12:08<@caker>DALLAS/FT. WORTH A/P, TX, US 01/14/2006 9:43 A.M. Status: Delivered
12:11<@mikegrb>caker: I shutdown those two hosts
12:11<@caker>thinking that'll bring them to their attention?
12:11<@mikegrb>was about to update the ticket
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13:25<alex323>Hry everybody.
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13:26<alex323>caker / mikegrb: Any updates on HE?
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14:02<@caker>who the hell is Buffalo?
14:02<@mikegrb>dunno but they sure can run fast
14:03<@caker>anyhoo, most our recent hosts have SATA II drives, just ICH5 can't do or refuses to go into SATA II mode
14:03<@mikegrb>you need my patented bios convincing tool
14:03<@mikegrb>looks a lot like a sledge hammer
14:03<@mikegrb>it's all in the wrist though
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14:08<@caker> <-- drool
14:10<@mikegrb>iI had a friend in highschool with a similiar mustang
14:10<@mikegrb>he totalled it
14:10<@caker>oh :(
14:11<@mikegrb>sharp curve
14:11<@mikegrb>too fast
14:11<@mikegrb>late at night
14:11<@caker>teenage drivers--
14:11<@caker>mikegrb: what car did you guys end up getting after your wreck?
14:12<@caker>or reduced to one vehicle now?
14:13<@mikegrb>it wasn't totalled
14:13<@mikegrb>they found a front end from another car that was totalled in the rear
14:13<@caker>So you guys have two cars, or just the one?
14:13<@mikegrb>so got fenders, hood, radiator, and lots of other stuff for 1k
14:14<@mikegrb>but I think heidi's needs spark plugs or some such, runs a bit rough
14:14<@caker>what year/models?
14:14<@mikegrb>well, and a battery at this point, it hasn't been moved in a year
14:14<@mikegrb>98 chevy cavalier
14:14<@mikegrb>01 kia optima
14:14<@caker>ahh .. like the Kia?
14:14<@caker>I looked at those for a friend a few years ago .. I was impressed
14:15<heidi>the chevy has more probs
14:15<@caker>heidi: that what you drive?
14:15<@mikegrb>very impressed
14:15<heidi>it would turn over but not fire
14:15<@mikegrb>it's super quiet
14:15<heidi>caker: not for a year now
14:15<@mikegrb>driving home from work the first day in the kia looked down and I was doing 80 in a 55, couldn't tell the difference, smooth and quiet
14:16<heidi>as soon as we can get it paid, i think we will donate the chevy
14:16<@mikegrb>we both drive the kia
14:16<@mikegrb>the chevy just sits parked
14:16<heidi>tax break and no ins and pmts
14:16<@caker>heidi: huh ..
14:17<heidi>we dont need more than one right now and i dont feel its worth fixing
14:18<heidi>if i sold i would only get a couple hundred at this point
14:18<heidi>we only owe 1000 ish
14:18<@mikegrb>local NPR station has dibs on it
14:18<heidi>if we could get that va check we could take care of it now
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15:05<Dreamer3>i wonder how long it takes somethin gto be swapped out in linux
15:05<Dreamer3>how it judges
15:05<@caker>I think it's just LRU
15:05<Dreamer3>caker: i'm using 75mb swap... do i need more ram?
15:05<@caker>Dreamer3: that's about the threshold where performance can drop off .. it all depends on workload, to be honest
15:06<@caker>Dreamer3: I'd look at tweaking your apps first
15:06<Dreamer3>Ruby on Rails is just a memory hog :-)
15:06<@caker>Dreamer3: mysql memory usage, apache threads, etc
15:06<Dreamer3>and i'm not sure what apps i could stop running :-)
15:06<Dreamer3>lighttpd :-) no apache
15:06<Dreamer3>mysql is already tuned :-)
15:06<Dreamer3>at least the last time i read your paper
15:06<Dreamer3>it's like 20mb virtual per instance
15:07<Dreamer3>which seems high, but what can you do?
15:07<Dreamer3>what's the advantage of a $79 linode over a $99 dedicated box?
15:08<cmantito>where can you get a $99 dedicated box?
15:09<ascott>Dreamer3: you don't have to worry about hardware.
15:09<ascott>Dreamer: which paper?
15:09<womble>Yeah, lots more people pestering the admins when their servers go down => quicker fixes. <grin>
15:09<ascott>cmantito: $99 colo is around.
15:09<ascott>womble: :)
15:10<cmantito>I'd rather have a linode.
15:10<ascott>cmantito: of course they murder you on bandwidth usage like a cell phone company.
15:10<Dreamer3>I have a $129 dedicated with 1,250gig :-)
15:10<cmantito>and any eyes & hands charges too I'm sure
15:10<@caker>and charge per ticket, often
15:10<Dreamer3>cmantito: nope
15:11<Dreamer3>cmantito: and no charge on tickets yet :-)
15:11<cmantito>usually they gouge on remote reboots, from what I understand
15:11<Dreamer3>cmantito: i've only rebooted it once from a ticket, no charge :-) not trying to pursuade anyone out of a linode, just asking
15:11<Dreamer3>i like my $40 linode
15:11<cmantito>my linode is teh rock.
15:11<Dreamer3>wonder when we're going Xen though still
15:12<ascott>I'm totally pleased with linode. though, I think my distro is buggy.
15:12<@caker>with Xen's low overhead, and ability to use both/multiple processors, the value of a virtual server compared to a dedicated will improve
15:12<Dreamer3>what is that uptime daemon?
15:12<Dreamer3>caker: when will that be? :-)
15:12<@caker>Dreamer3: re Xen, Real Soon Now
15:12<Dreamer3>caker: you mean in the future a linode could use all 4 proces instead of one?
15:12<Dreamer3>caker: is it one now?
15:12<@caker>Dreamer3: yes and yes
15:13<@caker>SMP Linodes++ :)
15:13<Dreamer3>caker: where is host22, cali, right?
15:13<@caker>Dreamer3: yes
15:13<Dreamer3>new stuff going TX or CA?
15:13<Dreamer3>wow, all sold out
15:13<Dreamer3>you keeping busy?
15:14<Dreamer3>i have a question :-)
15:14<@caker>It's going to be a busy few weeks getting all this stuff online, the Xen beta, the Xen migration, etc
15:14<@caker>looking forward to it
15:14<Dreamer3>if someone got an 80 and added a bunch of memory... would there be less processor contention than getting a bigger one... does it ever work like that?
15:15<@caker>Currently? No. It's always equally shared with the nodes on the same host
15:15<Dreamer3>i mean do people with small plans tend to overuse more than people with big plans?
15:16<Dreamer3>overuse = use more
15:16<@caker> places same type plans on the same host.
15:16<Dreamer3>i guess i wonder if load on bigger linode boxes is always higher than smaller or vise versa
15:16<@caker>So, hostX is all L80s, or whatever
15:16<Dreamer3>yes, i get that :-)
15:17<@caker>not sure what your question is ...
15:17<@caker>Is it more common for an L80 to swap thrash than a bigger plan? Yes, but runaway processes still happen regardless of plan
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15:19<Dreamr3>i guess i'm wondering if bigger plans also benefit from a speed increase because people are "planning ahead" more than the 80mb plans... and there is just more spare clock time
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15:19<Dreamr3>ie, more "slack time"...
15:20<Dreamr3>that would make them even more valuable
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15:20<Dreamr3>or if pretty much people know EXACTLY what they need so everything is equal use
15:20<Dreamr3>does that make any sense?
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15:25<cmantito>apparantly not ^.^
15:28<Dreamr3>n/m then :-)
15:28<Dreamr3>is it normal for a linode to take 30s to page back in like 20mb or memory?
15:29<@caker>Dreamr3: yes, that makes sense, and yes -- there's less contention, so there's more CPU to go around
15:29<@caker>Dreamr3: re swap -- it could, yes.. echo 5 > /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster
15:29<@caker>Dreamr3: echo 10 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness (on 2.6-um)
15:30<Dreamr3>are those documented somewhere i can go read?
15:30<@caker>Dreamr3: also, mikegrb recommends turning laptop mode on
15:31<Dreamr3>i think i'm still on 2.4
15:31<Dreamr3>long time ago 2.6 pegged the CPU all the time in top
15:31<Dreamr3>is that fixed?
15:32<Dreamr3>would 2.6 itself help a lot, or a little?
15:32<@caker>helped with what? All UML development has gone into 2.6 for about a year
15:32<Dreamr3>help with swap, etc
15:32<Dreamr3>are linodes running 2.6 smoother
15:32<@caker>ahh, well, it has the swappiness settings, so yeah
15:33<Dreamr3>how do you set laptop mode?
15:33<@caker>echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode
15:34<Dreamr3>*googles that*
15:36<Dreamr3>man i can't find any docs on how it actually affects the VM system
15:37<Dreamr3>does it spin down your disks? *lol*
15:37<Dreamr3>mikegrb: do you know?
15:39<Dreamr3>is ther esome reason you recommend it? :)
15:39<@mikegrb>it tells the vm subsystem to minimize disk activity
15:41<Dreamr3>i think my problem is just too mcuh running, too much memory pressure
15:41<Dreamr3>i remember than 64k was more than enough for all our tasks, and now I can't get it done in 160mb?
15:43<Dreamr3>*started on a Commodore 64*
15:43<Dreamr3>Advanced Basic, now that was a languade
15:43<Dreamr3>the ability to go into graphic smodes and draw shapes... i mean... wow
15:44<Dreamr3>caker: hey, with Xen, can I run FreeBSD?
15:45<guinea-pig>maybe with xen, you can run a commodore 64!
15:45<Dreamr3>guinea-pig: i think i can do that without Xen
15:45<guinea-pig>but will it give you that warm fuzzy feeling?
15:45<Dreamr3>i haven't had that feeling in years
15:47<Dreamr3>i wonder if there is an obdc driver for sqlite
15:47<Dreamr3>that'd be kinda cool
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 14 18:05:37 2006
---Logopened Sat Jan 14 18:23:57 2006
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18:23|-|Ekipa kanalu #linode: Wszystkich: 55 |-| +op [2] |-| +voice [0] |-| normalnych [53]
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18:24|-|Kanal #linode zsynchronizowany w 32 sekundy
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20:06<NeonNero>linbot: roulette
20:06<@linbot>NeonNero: *click*
20:06<NeonNero>linbot: roulette
20:06|-|NeonNero kicked [#linode] linbot [BANG!]
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20:06[~]linbot reloads and spins the chambers.
20:10<@linbot>JasonF: *click*
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21:12<@mikegrb>"One Comcast engineer estimated the daily e-mail flow on the company's network at about 800 million messages, with only 100 million originating from its servers. The remaining 700 million came from zombie computers.
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21:42[~]Battousai estimates the daily sexy flow of mikegrb to be infinity
21:42<Battousai>all of which originates from mikegrb
21:43<@mikegrb>you would be aproximately correct
22:00<[|^__^|]>Battousai: what we need is a mikegrb accelerator/detector device
22:01<[|^__^|]>Battousai: we can accelerate samples of mikegrb to astonishing speeds, and then track the vapor trails left behind with photosexomatic detectors
22:04<@mikegrb>dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/exim4-base_4.60-2_i386.deb (--unpack):
22:04<@mikegrb> trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man8/newaliases.8.gz', which is also in package exim4-daemon-heavy
22:04<@mikegrb>pain in the arse
22:09<[|^__^|]>I hate that ish
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23:54[~]taupehat is currently listening to (1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(1).mp3 [3:43 / 66 kHz]
---Logclosed Sun Jan 15 00:00:43 2006