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#linode IRC Logs for 2006-01-26

---Logopened Thu Jan 26 00:00:32 2006
---Daychanged Thu Jan 26 2006
00:00<Dreamer3>man i don't know sql
00:00<internat>what sql do u need to know?
00:00<Dreamer3>create table
00:01<internat>oh.. phpmyhadmin :)
00:01<@mikegrb>markph: yes
00:01<Dreamer3>got it :-)
00:01<markph>caker -- yes it has been fixed -- whew...thought I owed money :-p
00:01<Dreamer3>sqlite :-)
00:01<internat>i can edit and mstuff, but making i dont know :P
00:01<internat>u cant use phpmyadmin with sqlite? aww that sucks
00:01<markph>mikegrb: ty -- rock on :)
00:02|-|Netsplit <-> quits: J[SS]
00:03|-|Netsplit over, joins: J[SS]
00:04<Dreamer3>postfix hashes don't have to be tabbed, do they?
00:05<Dreamer3>how can i put a literal tab in a console without rendering the tab?
00:06<internat>\t ?
00:06<Dreamer3>maybe, but it's not working for me... at least sqlite isn't giving me tab separated values back
00:06<internat>i dont know anything about postfix hashes :P
00:06<Dreamer3>i'm making sure the same thing i do with mysql i can do with sqlite :-)
00:06<Dreamer3>mikegrb: you ready to set me up another box? :-)
00:08<internat>Dreamer3, if u dont mind me asking what do u offerclients / charge?
00:08<internat>like space and transfer
00:09<Dreamer3>but we don't attemp to complete with any joe on price... a lot of it is personal relationships and that type of stuff
00:09<Dreamer3>we believe you get what you pay for :-)
00:09<internat>thats kewl
00:09<internat> :)
00:09<Dreamer3>the $2.99 per month unlimited bandwidth offer may let you down when you least expect it
00:10<Dreamer3>i'm just now expermenting with webmail because no one's really needed it before
00:10<internat>yeah i run horde2/imp3
00:11<internat>cause my mates who i do with wanted it for uni and stuff
00:11<Dreamer3>that's prolly one of the better looking but still
00:11<Dreamer3>roundcube is pretty nice :-)
00:11<internat>yeah i like it
00:11<internat>its done everything ive wanted it to do
00:14|-|markph [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
00:15<Dreamer3>are there any EASY to integrate auto-whitelisting, confirmation required e-mail thingies
00:16<Dreamer3>i guess i just need mta hooks
00:16<internat>not that i know of.. saying that i dont really understand what ur after
00:16<@mikegrb>confirmation required will get you in trouble
00:16<@mikegrb>unsolicited bulk email
00:16<@mikegrb>against the terms of service
00:16<Dreamer3>mikegrb: i know :-) i'm thinking of a healthy mix of stuff done right, but wanting to avoid spamassasin if i can
00:16<@mikegrb>just don't include that in your mix
00:17<Dreamer3>i'i don't think we're talking about the same things :-)
00:17<@mikegrb>you are talking about challenge/response, right?
00:17<Dreamer3>yeah... explain
00:17<internat>umm Dreamer3 what do u use to count bandwidth?
00:17<@mikegrb>as in "Your message has not yet been delivered, you need to click this link/reply to this message for your original message to get through"
00:17<Dreamer3>internat: awstats
00:17<Dreamer3>that's UBE?
00:17<@mikegrb>most spam uses forged from addresses
00:18<@mikegrb>so you are sending unsolicited email
00:18<Dreamer3>i see
00:18<Dreamer3>do you use greylisting?
00:18<@mikegrb>just told a guy today he had to turn off his system
00:18<@mikegrb>he seemed to think it was open for debate
00:18<internat>greylisting is apparently good
00:18<Dreamer3>mikegrb: i was more intersting in monitoring outgoing mail (thru our SMTP) and auto-whitelisting the replied back as part of any other scheme
00:18<@mikegrb>yes, works quite well
00:18<internat>so uu just shut his system down i take it
00:19<@mikegrb>Dreamer3: that's not a bad idea
00:19<Dreamer3>mikegrb: yes, it's part of challenge/response when done right, but can be done sep
00:19<@mikegrb>internat: no, he said he would turn it off for now and look for a new provider
00:19<Dreamer3>mikegrb: he was using C/R?
00:19<Dreamer3>i'm just thinking there has to be SOME solution to this e-mail mess
00:20<internat>i dont even run spam protection atm :/
00:20<Dreamer3>at least for most of our clients
00:20<@mikegrb>greylisting with smartly chosen dns blocking lists works very well
00:20<internat>so basicly from my understanding awstats just works out what pages that have been access and how much each file is etc?
00:20<internat>iis that basicly what it is?
00:20<Dreamer3>internat: click advanced
00:21<@mikegrb>since the message is temp failed, they have to try back later, by the time they try back later, their ip is already blacklisted
00:21<Dreamer3>mikegrb: yeah, but would you consider running that alone?
00:21<@mikegrb>yes, I do
00:21<Dreamer3>internat: how long of a delay do you reommend?
00:21<Dreamer3>some say an hour, some 5 minutes
00:21<internat>err i dont use greyisting
00:21<@mikegrb>went from 40 or so spam a day to two or three a week
00:21<internat>i dont use ANY form of spam protection
00:21<internat>apparently using 30 seconds works with greylisting
00:21<Dreamer3>mikegrb: would you mind sharing your RBLs?
00:22<internat>cause none of the spam clients that mass spam even implement greylisting
00:22<Dreamer3>mikegrb: can you e-mail em?
00:22<Dreamer3>mikegrb: you using postfix?
00:22<@mikegrb>Dreamer3: it's only three, if I remember
00:22<internat>lol how do u do greylisting with postfix
00:22<Dreamer3>yeah, it was more for my memory, but i'll make a sticky now :-)
00:22<@mikegrb>apt-get install postgrey
00:23<internat>is that another version of postfix tho?
00:23<@mikegrb>dnslists = : : :
00:23<Dreamer3>i want something that's sqlite and i can integrate into my bigger management app :-)
00:23<@mikegrb>those are the four I use
00:23<Dreamer3>mikegrb: interesting
00:23<Dreamer3>mikegrb: no spamhaus?
00:24<@mikegrb> is a spamhaus list
00:24<Dreamer3>you think 80mb is enough for an e-mail box?
00:24<Dreamer3>smtp/pop/imap/webmail, etc?
00:25<@mikegrb>cbl catches a lot
00:25<@mikegrb>I hae them roughly in the order of most likely to hit
00:25<Dreamer3>i need a dns alias for my new box
00:25<@mikegrb>cbl lists open proxies and such
00:26<@mikegrb> lists ips that have sent mail reported via spamcop or captured at their spamtraps
00:26<@mikegrb>the last two are for dynamic/generic rdns
00:26<Dreamer3>i've never heard of
00:27<@mikegrb>the guy who runs it is a little weird sometimes, always reffering to IPs as IPAs and such
00:27|-|Lukine [] has joined #linode
00:27<Dreamer3>i see
00:28<Lukine>mike or caker available? lol
00:28<Lukine>hey mike, my node refuses to restart
00:28<Lukine>2 minutes and it finally decides to try and shutdown
00:28<Lukine>5 minutes
00:28<Lukine>01:23:15 AM
00:28<Lukine>started 01:28:17 AM
00:29<Lukine>host 13 lagging or somethin? lol
00:30<internat>correct me if im wrong.. awstats can be run either in cgibin form or from crontab right?
00:30<Dreamer3>though usually you'd analyze logs from cron
00:31<@mikegrb>you shouldn't run it from cgi-bin
00:31<internat>thats what i thougth
00:31<internat>cause i hear of problems with awstats all the time
00:31<Dreamer3>mikegrb: we have no problems with that
00:31<Dreamer3>mikegrb: cgi-bin is used for viewing
00:32<@mikegrb>you shouldn't run it from cgi-bin
00:32<@mikegrb>remote execute vulnerabilities are routinely found in it
00:32<Dreamer3>it runs as nobody
00:32<Dreamer3>but that's the problem with anything you run i guess
00:33<@mikegrb>nobody has plenty of privlidges to send email, scan for other vulnerable servers, etc
00:34<Dreamer3>i haven't read/heard much about this...
00:34<Dreamer3>awstats lists static html as their most secure config... but medium they switch to dynamic
00:34<internat>heheh yeah.. i have hence me knowing i dont want to use it
00:34<Dreamer3>internat: just generate the static files
00:34<internat>id rather use static html
00:34<internat>the problem is most ppl cant be arsed using static and use the cgibin versin
00:40<Dreamer3>this looks good
00:41<@mikegrb>why not just use postgrey?
00:41<Dreamer3>does it write to sqlite?
00:42<internat>i thougth it kept its own internal list?
00:42<internat>rather then using a db sever
00:42<Dreamer3>yeah, i need something i can integrate
00:42<@mikegrb>does it matter?
00:42<Dreamer3>berkleydb is not what i need :-)
00:42<Dreamer3>mikegrb: i'm building an integrated system
00:42<Dreamer3>around sqlite
00:42<Dreamer3>with a managemnet app
00:43<@mikegrb>why does the format it stores it's internal database in matter?
00:43<Dreamer3>and ability to quickly view greylisting details, etc
00:43<Dreamer3>i need access to the greylisting data
00:44<internat>look for sql grey
00:44<internat>a quick server of google found that
00:44<Dreamer3>i've look thru these the other day
00:44<Dreamer3>i like a lot about gps
00:44<Dreamer3>you can wl recipients and senders
00:45<Dreamer3>a lot of nifty features i could see using
00:46<@mikegrb>postgrey does those things
00:46<Dreamer3>but not sqlite :-)
00:46<@mikegrb>you seem to be missing the point
00:46<Dreamer3>what is the point?
00:47<internat>i think he wants to be able to see the greylisting data rather then have it in an internal db he wants it in an external db
00:47<Dreamer3>postgrey is a black box that works... i want a clear box that works :-)
00:47<taupehat>Dreamer3: it's not a black box at all
00:47<taupehat>I mean
00:47<@mikegrb>it is an /internal/ database, the only reason gps can use a sql database is so that it can be shared between multiple servers
00:47<@mikegrb>if you want the data you can ask postgrey for the data
00:47<taupehat>I suppose running strings on the db is a lot of work...
00:48<Dreamer3>mikegrb: hahaha
00:48<Dreamer3>mikegrb: ActiveRecord talks to databases, not postgrey :-)
00:49<taupehat>Dreamer3: there's another greylist package in debian at least, that _does_ talk to sql, but it's wonkier to set up
00:49<@mikegrb>right then, obviously no point wasting my time
00:49<Dreamer3>@user.greylistings.count => 428
00:49<taupehat>postfix-gld - greylisting daemon for postfix, written in C, uses MySQL
00:49<Dreamer3>etc etc :-)
00:50<Dreamer3>taupehat: this server likely will have no mysql, too bloated :-)
00:50<taupehat>funny this is coming up
00:50<taupehat>I was just about to change my postgrey delay to 1sec just to see if it's any different
00:50<@mikegrb>mysql isn't very bloated when properly configured
00:51<Dreamer3>mikegrb: it's huge compared to sqlite :-)
00:51<@mikegrb>and I imagine that in the situation you described, mysql would use quite a bit less resources then sqlite
00:51<Dreamer3>mikegrb: i beg to differ :-)
00:51<Dreamer3>mysql is a hog :-)
00:51<@mikegrb>yes, but I have knowledge on my side
00:51<Dreamer3>it's a fun project in any case
00:52<Dreamer3>i've used them both too, tahnk you much :-)
00:52<@mikegrb>I'd attempt to share some with you but obviously it is pointless
00:52<Dreamer3>thanks :-) you're still great :-)
00:52<Dreamer3>i know the dynamics are different, but i think my use case sqlite could work quite nice
00:53[~]taupehat wishes his neighbors would wait until he's asleep before they started what they are doing
00:53<Dreamer3>mikegrb: no offense
00:54<Dreamer3>mikegrb: i've just been wanting to build a box withou mysql for a while... most of my db usage is light, i think it can work
00:54<@mikegrb>you couldn't possibly offend me
00:54<Dreamer3>good :-) i like people that are hard to offend
00:54<taupehat>mikegrb is just very clear on what he thinks
00:54<Dreamer3>taupehat: yes, that's good too :-)
00:54<taupehat>there's only one technical issue that I know offends him... and it ends with ttpd
00:54<Dreamer3>mikegrb: if sqlite sucks, everything i'm using is db agnostic... easy switch :-)
00:55<taupehat>Dreamer3: for reals, all you have to do with postgrey is run "strings" on the db
00:55<Dreamer3>taupehat: but i want to be able to use the AR model... @friend=@user.greylistings.find_sender("")
00:56<Dreamer3>etc etc
00:56<Dreamer3>this is free when you ues a DB :-)
00:56<@mikegrb> <-- particularly the last one under high concurrency
00:57<@mikegrb>also the web stuff substituting email where it says web
00:58<Dreamer3>don't quote me but i think sqlite3 doesn't read-lcok anymore :-)
00:58<@mikegrb>it is designed for your use and is going to eat more resources with every single application on your linode having a full db running eating ram
00:58<Dreamer3>but i don't know if i can use that, so that may be a moot point :-)
00:58<@mikegrb>s/^it is/it isn't/
00:58<@mikegrb>rather then having one db server running for all of the applications to talk to
00:59<@mikegrb>imagine starting a copy of mysql for every program that used a database
00:59<@mikegrb>that is what you are doing with sqlite
00:59<Dreamer3>well... i count 2 apps... greylisting and my management app :-)
00:59<Dreamer3>the sqlite i have running now is using 1mb of ram and started in 0 perceived seconds :-)
00:59<@mikegrb>and the smtp mail server and the imap mail server and what ever else
01:00<Dreamer3>you're explaining well but you cannot compare starting mysql to starting sqlite :-)
01:00<Dreamer3>mail server will be using flat files dumped from db at an interval
01:00<@mikegrb>what happened to your fully intigrated system then?
01:00<Dreamer3>that's what i do altready because with lots of concurrent smtp processes mysql gets overwhelmed (though i never looked into the proxymap)
01:01<Dreamer3>mikegrb: the exports are auotmatic
01:01<Dreamer3>mikegrb: i use postfixadmin to manage mail now, and yet postfix uses flat files, not mysql :-) works great :-)
01:01<Dreamer3>i switched when 15 smtpd proceese were creating 15 mysql processes, etc
01:01<Dreamer3>again, proxymaps might have fixed that, but i don't recall seeing them then
01:02<Dreamer3>though you bring up a good point with the imap/pop stuff... that's another good question
01:02<Dreamer3>that might require an export as well :-)
01:02<Dreamer3>i just don't much like mysql on my current linode
01:02<Dreamer3>*logs in to check it*
01:03<Dreamer3>any day of the week a long-running 1mb sqlite process is smaller than a long-running 10mb mysql process :-)
01:04<Dreamer3>(just memory wise)
01:05<Dreamer3>i have 5/6 mysqld processes running right now
01:05<Dreamer3>9.8 res each
01:06<Dreamer3>i might start with mysql, happy? :-)
01:07<@mikegrb>I have 2 taking 6 mb each
01:08<Dreamer3>it must hold them around
01:08<Dreamer3>mysqladmin process only whos 2 long running connections
01:09<Dreamer3>5 processes, 2 connections
01:09<internat>oooh theres a mysqladmin? is that phpmyadmin?
01:09<Dreamer3>that's a command line tool
01:10<Dreamer3>mikegrb: i think the least i could have would be 3 processes
01:10<Dreamer3>not sure how i got to 5
01:10<Dreamer3>maybe i'll use postgresql!
01:11<Dreamer3>*looks to see what mike says to that* :-)
01:14<taupehat> Recipient address rejected: Spam someone else. Poshol von.;
01:14<taupehat>even though chances are that no spammer will ever read this, it's nice to know that my most-blasted addresses send back a really rude message in russian
01:15[~]tronix doesn't care much for the equinix-saavis peering
01:15<tronix>:-) (re: Russian)
01:15<tronix>my physician is of Russian descent so he enjoys hearing stuff (though usually the more polite stuff, heh)
01:16<taupehat>you don't want to tell him to, uhh, buzz off
01:17<tronix>equinix-saavis is so good in dallas that they have a 93% packet loss rate.
01:17<Dreamer3>SQLite version 2.8 allowed multiple simultaneous readers or a single writer but not both. SQLite version 3.0 allows one process to begin writing the database while other processes continue to read.
01:18<Dreamer3>and if you put the tables in sep files, then locking can become table leve, but that's starting to be a lot of work :-)
01:19<tronix>work: the stuff that I try real hard to blow off, Beetle Bailey-style. :-)
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01:24<TheFirst>something going on with TP? can't get to my linode or the linode site...
01:25<internat>yeah my node has been going in and out :/
01:25<internat>i can see it sometimes and sometimes i dont
01:25<internat>im waiting for my phone to beep :/
01:25<TheFirst>i've had ping problems all day...this is the first death of it i've had today
01:25<TheFirst>seems TP is having problems more and more often
01:26<internat>knowing my luck it will be intermediate and ill start getting a ccrap load of sms's
01:26<internat>servers gone offline!
01:26<internat>servers back online :P
01:26<internat>im waiting for it
01:26<TheFirst>seems like...just came back and went out again
01:27<internat>my home server, pings the linode every 30 secods or so.. if it doesnt get a reply it assumes the server is dead and sends me a sms
01:27<internat>and then starts checking every 15 seconds
01:27<internat>when the server comes back up, it msgs me saying the server is back :)
01:29[~]taupehat pats host15 lovingly
01:30<Dreamer3>internat: i'd think every 5 minutes would be plenty
01:31<Dreamer3>internat: but that's just me *shrugs*
01:31<internat>im inpatient :P
01:31<Dreamer3>my boxes never go down
01:31<Dreamer3>any of them
01:31<internat>it only sends 1 ping
01:31<internat>so its not relaly any bother
01:31<Dreamer3>only a bother when you'r egetting an SMS every 15 seconds
01:31<internat>it would only do that if the server went on and off and on and off
01:31<internat>it checks if its sent a msg
01:32<internat>if its already sent a message saying the servers off.. i wont get another one until the server is back on
01:32<internat>geez give me some credit
01:32<internat>that was the first thing i coded in
01:32<TheFirst>you deserve no credit! :P
01:33[~]tronix inserts 25 cents worth of credit, good for 1/2 of a video game
01:34<taupehat>an 25 23:31:59 taupehat postfix/smtpd[21078]: NOQUEUE: reject: HELO from unknown[]: 554 <>: Helo command rejected: Suck a nut, spammer. Poshol von!; proto=SMTP helo=<>
01:34<taupehat>this one's interesting:
01:34<TheFirst>mike has the most annoying script ever
01:35<taupehat>one wonders if that isn't some sort of uuid, eh
01:35<internat>taupehat, id be interested to know what the results of u changing the delay to 1 second show
01:36<taupehat>internat: so far no spam has gone through
01:36<taupehat>but I did get an email
01:36<taupehat>a real one
01:36<taupehat>and it was fun to watch the 1-second delay in action
01:36<taupehat>send me an email and I'll reply with the log tailings
01:36<internat>what is going to suck is when spammers do actually implement greylisting :/
01:36<taupehat>anything at
01:36<taupehat>(almost, heh)
01:36<taupehat>mail me
01:37<internat>hmms i need to install awstats
01:41<taupehat>internat: mail
01:43<internat>err, so it did send again right?
01:43<internat>or is my server still queing it?
01:44<taupehat>still queueing
01:44<taupehat>what MTA you got
01:44<internat>*ponders if his logcheck files are going to say something*
01:44<taupehat>look in logs
01:44<taupehat> /var/log/ for me
01:45<internat>mailq works as well :P
01:45<taupehat>what's it say?
01:45<internat>broken:/etc/postgrey# mailq
01:45<internat>-Queue ID- --Size-- ----Arrival Time---- -Sender/Recipient-------
01:45<internat>B927129839 610 Thu Jan 26 17:37:31
01:45<internat>(host[] said: 450 <>: Recipient address rejected: Greylisted for 1 seconds (see (in reply to RCPT TO command))
01:46<taupehat>so when's it going to release?
01:46<internat>buggas me
01:46<internat>hopefully soon
01:46<taupehat>postqueue -f
01:47<taupehat>delayed 581 seconds:
01:48<taupehat>so anyone here shop with cdw?
01:48<internat>yeah i sent it
01:48[~]taupehat thinks they have the worst website ever
01:48<internat>but i dunno how long its going to take
01:48<taupehat>your postfix config should have retry delay somewhere
01:49<taupehat>I was looking for licenses for ghost 7.5 this evening
01:49<taupehat>behold what cdwg thinks I wanted:
01:51<taupehat>yes, ghost does rather like to use cat 5 cables, but that wasn't what I wanted
01:52[~]taupehat actually thinks it's fun to use ghost multicast sessions to see which switches on the LAN need to be replaced
01:57<tronix>i'd recommend instead of cdw
01:57<tronix>(generally speaking)
01:57<tronix>at least, for hardware stuff. :)
01:57<tronix>oh man :) (re: cdwg)
01:57<taupehat>newegg doesn't take purchase orders
01:57<tronix>gotta love their db
01:58<taupehat>no sales support, etc
01:58<taupehat>sometimes I'm too lazy to piece all that crap together
01:59<taupehat>it's easier to say "I want one performance and three budget servers, a 12-port KVM, and a 15-slot sata JBOD frame
01:59<taupehat>of course
01:59<taupehat>i was thinking that would make it easier
01:59<taupehat>what REALLY happened was that he got back to me within a couple days
01:59<taupehat>with a quote of all IBM hardware
02:00<taupehat>200-gig U380 SCSI drives for US$600 each
02:00<taupehat>so I called him back and suggested that my budget wasn't the sort one customarily uses for launching human missions to the Moon
02:00<taupehat>we'll see
02:04<internat>aparently the default queue time is 60 seconds
02:05<taupehat>but it went longer than that
02:05<taupehat>maybe I should bump it up to five seconds or something
02:06<internat>i thought it went longer something must be borked
02:07<internat>transport_retry_time (default: 60s)
02:07<internat> The time between attempts by the Postfix queue manager to contact a malfunctioning message delivery transport.
02:07<internat> Time units: s (seconds), m (minutes), h (hours), d (days), w (weeks). The default time unit is s (seconds).
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02:08<internat>ill send another one and see how long it takes
02:08<taupehat>one sec
02:08<internat>oh yeah ill be greylisted now wont i :/
02:09<taupehat>use a different recipient address
02:09<internat>whats it go via domain or invidiual email addy?
02:09<taupehat>individual address
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02:10<internat>ok i just sent one from
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02:11<taupehat>internat: I think that your host name over there is accurate
02:11<internat>did that one go thru quicker?
02:11<taupehat>it has not retried
02:11<taupehat>you didn't SMTP it through that edu server
02:12<taupehat>you sent it through broken
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02:12<internat>oh right.. lol
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02:12<internat>broken is my default mail server
02:12<internat>cause as long as i authenticate it doesnt give a shit about anything else
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02:13<internat>hehehe yeah its broken cause im adming it
02:14<internat>actually its after a tv coming series.. invader zim
02:15<internat>one of the comments from it is "its not broken, its advanced"
02:17<TheFirst>great show
02:18<internat>indeed it is :)
02:18<TheFirst>the organ ep is the best
02:18<TheFirst>do you have a liver? 5 of them
02:20[~]TheFirst kicks the ghost of his 'node
02:24<taupehat>here's another
02:24<taupehat>Jan 26 00:23:00 taupehat postfix/smtpd[22134]: NOQUEUE: reject: HELO from[]: 504 <localhost>: Helo command rejected: need fully-qualified hostname; proto=SMTP helo=<localhost>
02:24<taupehat>yes, you host
02:25<taupehat>hey internat can you see the original sending address on my reply to your email?
02:25<internat>what do u mean?
02:25<taupehat>look at the headers
02:25<taupehat>see if you can find a funny dns entry in them =]
02:26<internat>from [] ( []
02:28<internat>*ponders how long this mail is going to stay queued*
02:34<internat>frigs me this email is going to sit for hrs by the looks of it
02:37<internat>fast_flush_purge_time = 7d
02:37<internat>i seriously hope that sint the vaule im looking for
02:37<taupehat>I bet it is
02:37<internat>transport_retry_time = 60s i was hoping it was that one
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02:41<taupehat>did you just jam it through or did it go by itself?
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05:14<internat>hey taupehat when did the email come thru?
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05:26<internat>any one know how hard it is to run php from cmd line?
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08:02<internat>hey Dreamer3 how did u get ur awstats formatted that way, they look awsome that way compared to the default ones :/
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11:56<Dreamer3>internat: when you generate HTML, awstats look crappy :-)
11:56<Dreamer3>internat: sorry :-)
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13:01<gpd>grr... crappy 55.2KB/s upload limit on my cable modem :(
13:01<anderiv>ooh - ouch.
13:01<gpd>is there any way to increase that with multiple scp connections?
13:02<anderiv>gpd: I doubt it...that'll only increase your TCP/IP overhead.
13:02<gpd>but when it first starts it goes at about 150 for about 30 seconds...
13:02<anderiv>gpd: yah - that's the TCP throttling mechanism in action.
13:03<gpd>don't download managers try and take advantage of that ...
13:04<anderiv>gpd: I'm not sure - I've never tried them.
13:04<gpd>or do they just not work - and only make you feel better about yourself
13:04<anderiv>hehe - I think that's more the case.
13:04<gpd>oh well -- just have to wait - or pay more money to Adelphia
13:04<@mikegrb>download managers work against throttling on the server side
13:04<@mikegrb>opening multiple connections to the server
13:05<@mikegrb>good way to get firewalled from the server
13:05<anderiv>mikegrb: I believe some servers have mechanisms in place to prevent that...
13:05<gpd>so there is no way to get round the cable modem upload limiter... :(
13:05<anderiv>mikegrb: limiting to 1 connection per IP or whatever...
13:05<@mikegrb>anderiv: yes
13:05<anderiv>gpd: not that I know of....if you figure out how, please let me know :-)
13:06<@mikegrb>anderiv: some load balancers and such have the option to auto firewall the ips
13:06<anderiv>gpd: but I'm not holding my breath.
13:06|-|try [] has joined #linode
13:06<try>Guys I'm new to this whole virtula hosting thing but i'm tired of shared - any help would be welcome
13:07<gpd>what sort of help is required?
13:07<try>Is it difficult to manage?
13:07<anderiv>try: you have to know a bit about managing linux servers
13:08<gpd>depends if you are a linux kid or not... depends what you want to do
13:08<try>I've tried they do not require to know linux but for a day or two my mysql acted so weird
13:09<try>i'm stil on the trial there but thinking about leab=ving them- their expalnation were not good for me
13:09<anderiv>try: how familiar are you with linux?
13:09<try>not at all
13:09<anderiv>try: then virtual hosting will probably frustrate you
13:09<try>there are so many hosting comapnies but so little of good one
13:10<try>I'm tired of search
13:10<anderiv>try: linode provides a "bare" linux OS and then lets you do what you want with it.
13:10<anderiv>try: for people who are familiar with linux administration, linode is an incredible company.
13:10<try>i hosted with - never ever host with them - nothing but disaster
13:11<anderiv>try: it sounds like with your skillset, you should stick with shared hosting for now and perhaps get a small linode to "play" with until you're comfortable hosting things yourself.
13:11<try>every second day I was on the phone wioth tem
13:11<gpd>with linode you have to answer you own phone calls for support ;)
13:12<try>so how is it difficult to learn basic Linux managment
13:12<try>so how is it difficult to learn basic Linux managment?
13:12<anderiv>gpd: hehe
13:12<anderiv>try: it's not somethign you can learn overnight - experience is the best teacher.
13:12<gpd>it depends what you want to do...
13:12<try>I was even thinking about co-location
13:12<gpd>setup a linux box at home and see how you get on
13:12<gpd>try Ubuntu-server
13:13<try>that's a good ide
13:13<try>Ubuntu-server -what is it?
13:13<try>can i have win and linux on the same box?
13:13<gpd>but backup first!
13:14<try>if i screw up linux will it affect my win too?
13:14<gpd>guaranteed ;)
13:14<try>bad news :-)
13:15<gpd>no - it is fairly difficult to mess up - but not impossible
13:15<try>All I'm looking for now is to set my sites and move onm with my life- so far someone always f..ks it up
13:16<try>Ubuntu-server -what is it?
13:17<gpd>it is a cut down version of Ubuntu - for servers...
13:17<try>by the way are there any good books that you guys would recomend about linux?
13:17<anderiv>try: google my friend.
13:17<gpd>that is my current fav. linux distro...
13:17<gpd>try the live CD
13:18<gpd>you will probably cry within about 10 minutes... then back to shared ;)
13:18<anderiv>gpd: hehe
13:20<try>you are guys cool but I have to do something about my hosting situation
13:20<try>thank s any way - It was a pleasure talking to you -have a good day TTL
13:21<anderiv>try: there *are* good shared hosts out there...
13:21<Lukine>I can vouch for linode
13:21<Lukine>I've been with them since they opened for business
13:21<Lukine>Chris and mike are kickass too :)
13:21<anderiv>Lukine: we've determined that linode isn't a good fit for try.
13:22<anderiv>Lukine: he's not familiar w/ we told him that he'd get quite frustrated.
13:22<Lukine>well, what's lookin to get hosted? :P
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13:29<cmantito> there any kind of a bulk rate if you were ordering multiple linodes?
13:33<gpd>you'll have to ask mikegrb or caker about that
13:35<cmantito>I figured as much
13:35<cmantito>but it doesn't hurt to throw it out there.
13:35[~]gpd tried to remember how to do wget*.jpg
13:44<gpd>Recipient address rejected: Access denied <-- ???
13:46<gpd>why would i be getting that from my ISP via thunderbird but not when sent via webmail?
13:49|-|mode/#linode [+o caker] by ChanServ
13:49<@mikegrb>gpd: curl can do stuff like[0-9].jpg
13:50<gpd>i think wget can do it too with -g on
13:54<anderiv>gpd: regarding your mail question...have you tried using smtp-auth? Your ISP may be refusing to relay unless you authenticate to their server first.
14:01<gpd>anderiv: good point! i'll check - thanks
14:01<anderiv>gpd: np
14:01<gpd>wrt curl: curl[0-9].jpg -o "file_#1.jpg"
14:01<gpd>use the #1 to represent the number in the wildcard - nice ;)
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15:27<@caker>mikegrb: fido's++
15:28<@mikegrb>may be going there in march or so
15:28<@caker>what fer?
15:29<@mikegrb>kvandivo is heading to south florida about then
15:29<@mikegrb>possibly with his brother from nashville
15:29<@mikegrb>if the brother doesn't come, he is will be going through pensacola and stopping here for a few nights
15:29<@caker>huh .. didn't know that .. cool, we shall have to all meet up
15:29<@mikegrb>if the brother comes they will be going through nashville then atlanta
15:29<@mikegrb>so jotun and I were going to come up to nashville
15:29<@mikegrb>meet for lunch or some such
15:30<@mikegrb>yes, you were invited ;)
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15:42[~]gpd notices 2.6.15-linode16 ... is that going well for people?
15:44<@mikegrb>Logitech Harmony 880 Advanced Universal Remote $112 after $50MIR
15:45<@mikegrb>good remote
15:45<@caker>gpd: so far, yes ... in fact, time to make latest point to it
15:48<gpd>so should I hold off rebooting into that one then?
15:49<@mikegrb>been out for a while with no complaints
15:50<gpd>what does caker mean by latest point? or .15-linode17 ?
15:51<@mikegrb>the latest kernel option is essentially a symlink
15:51<@mikegrb>he just means popint the latest 2.6 option at that kernel
15:51<gpd>oh... i see... will reboot now then ... ciao
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16:12<gpd>tcp6 0 0 ip6-localhost:6010 .... PID/0 ??? what is that?
16:13<gpd>from netstat -ple
16:15<gpd>must be something to do with sshd - but I am confused by Program name 0
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16:17<gpd>lsof |grep PID shows 0 [heap] (stat: No such file or directory)
16:19<gpd>seems to be the same on my desktop - so forgetting about it
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16:33<internat>Dreamer3, i would have thought there would be a way to skin the output to a certian degreee
16:47<internat>Dreamer3, i must be going insane cause i swear u showed me a stats page yesterday that looked awsome, yet looking thru all the links u sent me i cant find it anywhere
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17:44<fake>host 16 is crawling
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17:46<@mikegrb>looks good here
17:46<staynalive>Did anyone else just have serious network issues??
17:47<fake>better now
17:47<@mikegrb>fake: oh, network then?
17:47<fake>yeah looks like it was network
17:47[~]mikegrb has a suspect
17:48[~]mikegrb grins in a sly bofh way
17:48[~]staynalive is glad it's not just a problem with his linode
17:48<fake>heh, what is it
17:48<[Erik]>HE problems maybe?
17:48<fake>man that network crapout killed my compile of courier =/
17:49<staynalive>there is goes agian :-(
17:51<[Erik]>must be HE
17:51<@mikegrb>it looks like someone is being DOSed
17:52<warewolf>that sucks
17:52<anderiv>mikegrb: same node as the DOS on Monday or Tuesday...or whenever that was?
17:52|-|taupehat_ [] has joined #linode
17:53<taupehat_>oi, routing issues at HE
17:53<taupehat_>11 ( 26.394 ms 25.818 ms 128.491 ms12 ( 23.869 ms 24.290 ms 23.679 ms13 ( 358.347 ms 361.337 ms 365.774 ms
17:53<taupehat_>after that it's only stars
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17:55<JJE>Hi there - Mige or Chris around?
17:55<JJE>Mike not Mige sorry.
17:55<[Erik]>HE is having troubles atm
17:55<JJE>Damn right - they've been having quite a few recently.
17:56<JJE>Any idea whats going on and an ETA?
17:56<taupehat_>eh, no kidding
17:56[~]anderiv thinks mikegrb or caker should change the /topic when there's issues. That would help inform all the people who poke their head in...
17:56|-|psykoyiko [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:56<taupehat_>maybe script a little something...
17:56|-|psykoyiko [] has joined #linode
17:57<taupehat_>F5 for "HE is having troubles" and F6 for "TP is having troubles"
17:57<anderiv>taupehat_: heh - that would work :-)
17:57<taupehat_>F7-number for "host N is having troubles"
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18:00<JJE>Interesting - it's been cycling for about 20 minutes now. Good for a few minutes and then heavy packet loss for about 5 minutes....
18:02<fake>wtf my screen won't detach =/
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18:02<cmantito>Does anyone know of any companies who do hosted customer support live chat services similar to
18:02|-|jekil [] has joined #linode
18:09<kathy>are there any problems in any of the datacenters tonight? the server I'm on seems to be laggy as heck and keeps peering me...?
18:10<cmantito>I'm seeing similar results.
18:10<kathy>I heard that HE is having greif?
18:10<@mikegrb>shouldn't be too much longer
18:11<Dreamer3>uh oh
18:11<Dreamer3>HE for once?
18:12<kathy>it's hammering the linodes we're using...
18:12<Dreamer3>i'm on ssh and pining from CA to TX
18:12<Dreamer3>seems solid
18:14|-|fake [] has quit [Quit: ]
18:14<kathy>seems to have tapered off...
18:15<Dreamer3>glad i wasn't around to be stressed out by it :-)
18:15<Dreamer3>i NEED to setup an e-mail box
18:19|-|kathy changed nick to kathy|afk
18:20<Dreamer3>a girl!
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18:21<[Erik]>well there goes HE again or something
18:22<Dreamer3>how do i add stocks to my widget
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19:24<gpd>what is a good way to maintain a directory in sync across a network?
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19:25<gpd>I am using rsync -avu --delete
19:25<gpd>but it is a bit sketchy
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19:31<thoth39>How's that?
19:32<gpd>I just worry that if I do it in the wrong direction then files will be deleted
19:33<thoth39>Seems a reasonable fear.
19:33<thoth39>But the only solution for that is interactive confirmation.
19:34<thoth39>Do you absolutely must use --delete frequently?
19:34<gpd>no - that is the other option - but if you move files between folders it gets messy
19:35<gpd>i suppose i want some sort of magic demon that checks what i do and syncs automatically
19:35<gpd>but that sounds even more dangerous - now that I think about it
19:38<thoth39>Maybe you can script the call to rsync, so origin and destination are fixed
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19:46<gpd>another option - use svn or something like that
19:48<thoth39>Yeah, I thought about it, if the point os backing things up.
19:49<thoth39>But then, if we're taking non-text files, your repository might grow quicly.
19:49<gpd>true - but not a huge deal
19:50<gpd>just want to use my linode as a central store of my random crap - mostly text files, docs, xls etc
19:50<gpd>like .mac without the $99
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19:53<gpd>hah! I am not the only one
19:54<thoth39>I crave for FC4 on my linode :~
19:54<gpd>screw that - get ubuntu 5.10 on there
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19:58<@mikegrb>gpd: have a mac?
19:58<@mikegrb>gpd: you can simulate .mac with apache webdav and such
19:58<gpd>mikegrb: yes, dual G5 2.0
19:59<gpd>i already use dav on my linode for iCal
19:59<gpd>but not tried anything else - Addresses would be nice
19:59<@mikegrb>I'm talking your mac thinks your linode is .mac
19:59<@mikegrb> <-- face .mac stuffs
20:00<gpd>cool - I only have iCal talking to my linode to publish calendars... looking
20:02<gpd>sweet - that is exactly what I have been looking for :)
20:02<@mikegrb>I am a veritable faunt of information.
20:02[~]gpd bows to the master
20:03<Lukine>mike spews of lolz and information.
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20:03<gpd>lol and cake were not on last week...
20:03<gpd>oh dear ... back
20:04<gpd>can you get non-Macs to 'sync' with that system?
20:04<gpd>or at least get at the files / stuff ?
20:08<@mikegrb>sure it's just webdav and stuff
20:08<@mikegrb>recent windows does webdave realitively well
20:09<@mikegrb>and there are cli webdave clients for linux
20:09<@mikegrb>pretty sure you can mount something via webdav with lufs/fuse
20:10<gpd>very cool - will set that up for sure - thanks for the tip
20:10<@mikegrb>at my previous job, last time I used windows, when I logged in to the windows machine in my office it would mount a directory on my linode via webdav
20:11<gpd>so there is no local copy - just a webdav connection to the linode?
20:14<internat>hey that sounds awsome
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20:31<taupehat>ahh, I can talk to my server again =]
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20:33<gpd>hmm AuthDisgestDomain invalid command - my apache2 must be missing the module ;(
20:37<gpd>fixed... getting there... more later
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21:02<sprouse>can someone msg me for quick test. i just switch irc clients and need to test where my msg goes
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23:06<@caker>Debian's 2.6 kernel is based on 2.6.8?!
23:11<taupehat>leet sauce
23:11<taupehat>or something
23:11<@caker>that's insane
23:11<@caker>can't be right
23:11<taupehat>I've got a testing box up
23:11<taupehat>let me ask it
23:11<taupehat>but that's testing
23:11<taupehat>lemme ask sarge here
23:12<taupehat>well, that doesn't count =]
23:12<taupehat>caker: where are you seeing that debian is running .8?
23:12<@caker>taupehat: debian installer, via http
23:12<taupehat>that is insane
23:13<taupehat>guess their whole "We want to ship software that isn't old" campaign isn't going so well
23:13<taupehat>I'll let this be my final answer to that:
23:13<@caker>ChangeLog-2.6.8 13-Aug-2004 23:02 883K
23:13<taupehat>link is utterly work-safe
23:15<taupehat>sure does look like 2.6.8
23:15<taupehat>well, thanks for packaging .13 instead...
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23:21<anderiv>heh ->
23:21<linbot>New news from forums: did uncle xen skip town? in Xen Testing <>
23:21<anderiv>someone's been keeping tabs on you, caker
23:22<anderiv> I like it.
23:22<anderiv>frickin' odd....rain in the middle of January.
23:22<anderiv>just plain wrong.
23:24<anderiv> is being squatted, huh?
23:24<@caker>for like 8 years or something silly
23:25<anderiv>wow - since before xen's inception.
23:25<@caker>I emailed the address on the whois jsut for kicks .. but no response
23:25<@caker>the Linode brand isn't going anywhere, anyhow
23:25<anderiv>I've been going through that crap for a few domains my management at work were interested in...
23:25<@caker>Did I read about that somewhere?
23:26<anderiv>one of the guys wanted a discounted rate of $50k for a domain.
23:26<@caker>nm, think it was a list I was on
23:26<anderiv>caker: read about what?
23:26<@caker>geez, what domain?
23:27<anderiv>my company is - the domain in question was
23:27<@caker>...was waiting for that
23:27<@mikegrb>anderiv works for one of the premier pornography studios
23:27<@mikegrb>it's a killer job
23:27<anderiv>...don't think the wife would appreciate that.
23:27<@mikegrb>he's a fluffer, but for the chicks
23:27<@mikegrb>it's how he met his wife
23:27[~]mikegrb runs
23:28<anderiv>har har
23:28<anderiv>...if only
23:28<anderiv>...if only I was an op
23:28<@mikegrb>I need to get a product developed
23:28<@mikegrb>I should call you
23:29<anderiv>we might just be able to help you out with that :-)
23:29<@caker>anderiv: what's your role there?
23:30<@caker>neat stuff
23:30<anderiv>I wrangle ~15 windows server and ~10 linux
23:30<@mikegrb>you are my hero
23:30<anderiv>...and was recently relieved of the responsibility of desktop support
23:30<anderiv>mikegrb: heh
23:31<anderiv>mikegrb: you can thank our industrial design department for that.
23:31<@mikegrb>I don't know what kind of product I want developed, that's where your company comes in ;)
23:32<anderiv>hrm - I'll talk with a program manager. We'll probably have to bill 20 hours or so to come up with your proudct.
23:32<@mikegrb>caker said he would pay for it
23:32<@mikegrb>send the bill to him
23:32<@mikegrb>or maybe just apply it towards your Linode
23:33<anderiv>hrm - let's see 20 hrs at $150/hour....I should be set for a few years.
23:33<taupehat>24 years free hosting
23:33<taupehat>on that note
23:33<taupehat>I think I'm about due for a bill here
23:33<anderiv>taupehat: you're *asking* for a bill???
23:33<anderiv>taupehat: you feeling alright?
23:33<taupehat>I'm dreading it, actually
23:34<taupehat>paid up for one year
23:34<taupehat>and enjoyed that fact
23:34<anderiv>that's the cool stuff we develop...
23:34<anderiv>much cooler than tape dispensers :-)
23:34<taupehat>I dunno
23:34<taupehat>that "spring tab feature"
23:35<taupehat>my account is due 4/1
23:35<@mikegrb>I had 4 of printers like that in the room outside my office at the hospital
23:36<@mikegrb>I came under the patient administration department
23:36<@mikegrb>and I had the most space in the department
23:36<@mikegrb>so they dumped stuff on me for storage
23:36<@mikegrb>also had a card imprinter, like the raised letters on a credit card
23:36<@mikegrb>that thing was huge
23:37<anderiv>literally or figuratively?
23:37<taupehat>love gadgets
23:37<@mikegrb>three feet deep
23:37<@mikegrb>three feet wide
23:37<@mikegrb>a foot and a half tall
23:37<anderiv>interesting...wouldn't think that would take up so much space
23:37<@mikegrb>it was old
23:38<@mikegrb>it appearantly still worked
23:38<@mikegrb>but was replaced with a newer faster version
23:38<taupehat>my dentist has a gadget that.. well, he scans the inside of your mouth, this ToothCAD program pops up on his screen that proposes the crown or onlay, he spends a minute adjusting it, clicks "Go." and ten minutes later a milling machine creates the crown out of pure enamel, and he glues it in.
23:38<@mikegrb>taupehat: it can fix boken teeth too
23:38<taupehat>mikegrb: eh?
23:38<@mikegrb>mill the other half
23:39<taupehat>and it works for fillings, too
23:39<taupehat>much MUCH nicer fillings than silver
23:39<taupehat>naturally, he has digital Xray and all that
23:39<taupehat>dude's a bigger geek than I am
23:40<taupehat>so mikegrb did you ever try feeding the card imprinter nonstandard media?
23:40<taupehat>stainless steel credit cards =]
23:41<anderiv>heh - our ID guys were working with some customers that had stamped SS business cards
23:41<anderiv>don't want to know what they cost, though.
23:43<taupehat>that's ostentatious
23:45<@mikegrb>never hooked it up
23:45<@mikegrb>it wasn't near the computer
23:45<@mikegrb>and was heavy
23:51<taupehat>72. How you know your city has an image problem: A) It's being mocked by Sacramento ...
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 27 00:00:23 2006